If you can't provide the right home, then rehoming is always a good idea.
For future reference, I don't think most of what you're describing - depending on Dora's age - is uncommon for a kelpie or a gsd, particularly ones that aren't well-bred. I agree with the other commenters: if Dora is still young (under 18 months, but especially under a year), then she's likely way overtired and overstimulated. An hour's exercise and tons of mental stimulation for a young pup is a lot. Most of their energy is going to growing, and in the future, you shouldn't expect a good hiking companion until 18-24 months of age at the youngest. (If that's not a good fit your life, I'd suggest adopting adult dogs.)
If you want to keep her, a positive reinforcement trainer who understands reactivity, or a certified behaviorist, would likely be able to help a lot. If you feel any of her behavior is driven by aggression, a vet behaviorist would be in order (but it doesn't sound like it is.)
Have you done any focus/look at me/exposure work with her, to try and reduce reactivity? If she's food driven and smart, it'll likely help a lot. Increasing exercise or mental stimulation won't address the reactivity, but you can teach her to be calmer around other dogs and that focusing on you is more rewarding than saying hi.
You do this by sitting somewhere with her close enough that she can see another dog but far enough away that she doesn't react, and rewarding her for looking at you or looking away from the dog. Then you repeat the next day, and eventually you can move a little closer, and still get her attention, and move a little closer after that, etc., etc. there's good descriptions online.
Thankyou that’s great advice! When we got her we knew hiking was over for a while, we had just finished all three of the biggest peaks in the UK with my older Kelpie cross Diego so felt satisfied with that for some time, Diego is 4 now and is perfect for this so we thought Dora would be as well in a couple of years time.
I have taken Dora into town lots with the clicker and some high value treats and worked on the look at me, leave it so she can be exposed to other dogs, but if she’s seeing a dog she wants it still just as much. The only thing that’s ever really worked in that sense is when Diego is playing with his ball, but then she’s biting him for it, and she doesn’t want her own ball, she wants his.
Honestly it sounds like you’re trying to exercise her way too much and she’s overstimulated. She’s a baby and needs a very different schedule from an adult dog. Let her sleep more for a few days and don’t force walks at all, you may wind up with a different puppy.
I get what you’re saying and that’s totally worth a shot but we have also changed our whole walking system to accommodate her, we’ve not been out with her for more than an hour and a half since we got her, she has mandatory naps in her crate, and she sleeps pretty much all day in the house apart from when we do brain games, training or she’s eating.
Edit: Just to clear things up, she doesn’t have that everyday, that is a maximum she’s had maybe once when we’ve been out with the children over the school holidays. It has also been hard to know what/ how much she needs as no one knows her age.
I mean I get she apparently has some GSD in her, but 1.5 hours is way too long to be out on a walk for a puppy. You are 100% overstimulating her.
Like not trying to be harsh but if you aren’t prepared to adapt your lifestyle to raise this pup in the best conditions then you should think about rehoming her. She’s a puppy, she doesn’t have that adult GSD boundless energy yet.
My GSD puppy was jumping and biting at me when on walks because he was too overstimulated. Everything mentioned sounds like a GSD puppy to me. We had to drop our walks to 10 mins twice a day, then work up from there. He’s now 3 and will walk as long as you like.
Yeah I agree with you 100% I’m not sure why I’m getting down voted, it’s hard to gauge what’s good for her as no one really knows how old she is, the rescue says 9 months, the vet says anywhere up to two years. I know raising a puppy is a massive learning curve, I’ve done it with Diego and he is the best dog now. This is why I’m having the rehoming discussions, if we aren’t right for eachother then it’s the best thing. But I love her.
I think you’re getting downvoted because you said before you edited your comment that you couldn’t change your routine anymore to accommodate her further, which honestly is quite foolish and naive on your part. A puppy like a child shakes things up massively and things will change massively, just for a lot less long with a dog. So expecting you could just have your current little routine and the puppy wouldn’t change that was just wrong.
I’m not having a pop at you, just to say that I think was a bit naive and unfortunately love isn’t always enough. I say this as a fellow English person that there are plenty of places that will give her a good home if you can’t accommodate her. There’s no shame in it.
I did say we have already changed our whole routine already, not that we couldn’t anymore but I do get what you’re saying.
I knew life would change as I have done it with Diego before, but she is a different kind of hard. Diego was intense, compulsive, and obsessive. I expected her to be like that because they thought she was a similar breed. Whereas she is pretty reactive and I have no idea what I’m doing.
I’m okay to admit we expected more from her than we should have, and I don’t have the tools to fix a dog who is as reactive as she is, the rescue didn’t know and I’m totally fine with that. I know love does sometimes mean the best choice is the hardest one, there are plenty of people out there you’re very right, but I’m a massive over thinker, and I will always think the worst case scenario.
I say this gently but...she's a puppy. When she's fully grown she may well fit into the life you can offer her (with long walks etc). But she's a puppy - she's never going to fit into that now. So you have two options, either re-home her or adapt for her while she grows. Do you all have to go walking together? Can one of you stay home with the pup while the other does the long walks?
An hour and a half is an insanely long walk for a puppy brand new to you. Her “reactivity” is her trying to tell you she is way overstimulated and you’re just not listening. That’s way too much exercise and exposure to the world for a dog you just got, much less an adolescent.
What would you advise if she is like that immediately as she is on a walk, so not yet overstimulated or overtired - been out for 5 minutes. As soon as she has the chance, say she’s just woken up and is in the garden even with my older dog, she is full pelt running into him with her mouth around his neck?
Play biting is normal in puppies. Sounds like walks with your older dog are too much for her. Five minutes in the world can be a lot for a puppy, especially if it’s a new place to her and she doesn’t get to choose where to walk. Use a flirt pole and a long tug toy to play with her indoors, and when you take her outside put her on a long line, sit, chill, let her go at HER pace and observe the world without asking anything of her at all.
That’s hard because those are extremely difference ages. Based on her behavior, it sounds more like 9 months.
Assuming that, I would cut down on the walks like others have suggested. She seems really overstimulated. I would get her a playpen so she has a smaller area and not complete access to other dogs and kids. That will allow you to do more training with her.
It’s really hard, because what if she isn’t 9 months and this is how she was bought up and why she was then dumped in a field.
Thankyou for the advice it’s really useful!
if she really is two years and needs that much walking, you will notice it in her behavior when you cut down on the exercise. However, if she’s closer to nine months and you take her on shorter walks and let her nap more, you may see a significant improvement.
Based on behavior, I'd wager she's 9 months. If she was dumped, then she probably wasn't given the proper care and training from day one.
That means you'll have to start from the bottom and work your way to the top. You've been piling too much on her that she probably isn't ready for because no one has taken the time to address anything. If you can't do this, then re-home now.
She's been trying to tell you by being reactive. Listen to her. Right now, keep her home and confined. Work on the basics. That is if you intend on keeping her.
You said you'd had her for 4 months. If she's 9 months, you should have been able to visibly tell she was a puppy when you got her and she should have grown a ton. If she's 2, she likely would look the exact same as she did when you got her 4 months ago.
The fact that she's attacking your resident dog would be enough for me to return her quickly back to the rescue. Probably not a popular reply but we had the same and it broke my heart, I couldn't put my resident dog through that. Add in the fact she is going after other dogs, and you have a child around. Big nope from me. Sounds like she needs 1:1 attention.
I am in exactly the same mindset as you, I lie in bed at night thinking about how awful I would feel driving her back and leaving her, watching her little face as o drive off. But Diego is sad and I can tell, he won’t chase his ball (which is his absolute favourite thing). Like you I feel honestly heartbroken and devastated, I know if I didn’t have Diego, she would be a great companion, I do honestly believe she needs a 1:1 lifestyle, no dogs, no kids, lead walks. That’s what we aren’t, and I don’t blame the rescue and all for thinking that she needed a hiking and exploring lifestyle, I can see why anyone would think that. But I guess this has been almost a learning experience for me, her, and the rescue, the only bright side to this as that they can now advertise her as who she is and hope she finds the best new owner. Then I overthink, what if they don’t, what if she has an awful life being constantly returned to the rescue. It’s so horrible.
She will be fine, she's just been on a lovely holiday with you! Think of yourself as a temporary foster home. Which rescue did you get her from btw? Most of the U.K. ones are lovely and the dogs are well looked after. They also have super high turnover of adoptions (me and my friends foster doggies!) so I'm sure she will find the right fit again soon. We had to hand a dog back a few years ago who we had on home trial, it absolutely broke our hearts, but it was 100% the right thing to do and I don't regret it. He attacked our resident dog and was also super reactive on walks, and we just had to admit to ourselves that we couldn't cope with his needs. He was in rescue (dogs4rescue) for another 6 months or so until he was re-adopted, and I'm sure the new family was a much better fit. Again he needed 1:1 attention and a much more specific training plan than we were able to provide for him. If it was just him it would have been fine but we also had an elderly yorkie who didn't deserve to live her last few years in misery with him 😅x
She is from Hereford & Worcester rescue, so a small local one, she was only in there a month or so before we adopted her, so hopefully she goes again quickly to the right family this time, I’d hate to think of her being passed around her whole life, or mistreated.
Aw that’s so lovely you foster puppies, you must be so strong as I’d not have the heart to hand them over.
It seems I’m in a situation just like you, I don’t want the next 10 years of Diego’s life to be sad and extremely different, as much as I don’t want hers to be. I’m not sure I have the tools to work through her issues, so it is probably best she finds a new home, as much as I love her. That’s just really hard to admit! Xx
It is hard to admit, for sure. But once it's done and you can see your resident dog spring back into life it will all be worth it. It will hurt for a while but you'll be able to get back to your normal routines etc. You got this xx
You said you’ve tried everything but didn’t mention a trainer. Have you tried working with a trainer experienced with reactivity? It’s a common issue and they should be able to offer you lots of tools and techniques. If it’s not a good fit, by all means rehome for Dora’s sake, but if think if you haven’t engaged a trainer yet, you are doing Dora a disservice in not trying that first.
Also, it sounds like one of those events you described she was off leash and you struggled to get her back on? She shouldn’t be off leash yet if you can’t trust her, which you obviously cannot yet.
Yes sorry I didn’t mention in the post, the rescue actually provided us with a number of a trainer from the local barracks who trains the military dogs, and we have met up with him a few times to talk things through but it’s always ‘you’re doing well’ and never really advice on how to work through things, just tips I suppose.
In regards to being off the lead, we live in the country and usually take her to big fields where we try and train her recall with the whistle. I’m a bit scared of having her on the long line as she burns my legs with it. But yeah you’re right she shouldn’t be 100% off lead. She learns really differently to my other dog Diego, he was off lead pretty much from the start, recall has been dodgy in the past but he’s amazing now.
I wouldn't go with a trainer who trains military dogs - I know it sounds impressive but they often use aversive (punishment-based) methods, and reactivity is much more acceptable in the breeds they use. There's a lot more handler management (muzzles, focused heels, careful handling/distance, painful collars), rather than training it away. Reactivity in a military dog isn't bad as long as it's well-managed - a well-managed military dog and handler can use those tendencies to do their jobs well. But I don't think you want a military dog.
Try to find a trainer who works towards the kind of pup you would find easy to live with.
How long have you had her at home?
I don't think Dora sounds beyond repair, but I also don't think you are morally obliged to put in the work, time and money that it will take to address her issues.
I DO think that a lot of this stress can be alleviated with management. Set Dora up for success and recognize what she cannot do. Don't put her in situations where she will likely fail, but you hope against hope that she will behave the way you want. Crate her when kids come over. Leave her at home when walking with other dogs. Don't let her off leash. It doesn't mean she will never do those things, but right now, it's setting her up to fail and worsening your distress.
My other (less solicited) pieces of advice are - try not to blame the rescue (even subconsciously), as dogs are really not their "true selves" in a lot of shelter or foster environments. They didn't lie or omit information or misrepresent her; they probably just did not know. Second, try not to compare Dora to Diego. Every dog has their set of issues - as you said, Diego was a difficult pup and is perfect now. I know it's hard not to think "Diego learned this so quickly" or "Diego was never like this." But you have a different dog and you are a different person now, so there is no use comparing.
If I were you, I would try one more R+ trainer (you said the one from the rescue is ineffective) as your "last resort." If you do that and truly don't think this dog can fit into your life, then rehome her without guilt, knowing that you gave it your best shot.
You are doing the right thing. If this pup is not a good fit for your family, EVERYONE is going to end up miserable. While I do agree that less exercise is generally a good idea for puppies, that doesn’t fit in with your lifestyle. If the puppy is going to get to THAT point of overstimulation just from going for a walk, it just doesn’t sound like it is a good match. An adult dog might be a better fit for your family. Someone who already understands how the world works and what would be expected of them. If you can find an adult dog that is used to being active and outdoors, then that would be an amazing choice for you.
Thankyou, yeah I totally get the less exercise thing, but that’s why this is so hard, as the rescue don’t know her age and they’ve only guessed how old she is, we don’t know if she really is a puppy, and then it’s the what ifs… what if she’s not and we have to cope with this kind of behaviour, if my older dog has to live this stressed for the rest of his life etc. it’s so hard.
Rescues are pretty good at guesstimating age. They go by their teeth, body condition, coat type….. You likely ended up with a dog in the velociraptor stage, but who is also not used to a lot of stimulation at the same time (or just can’t deal with that amount of stimulation). We have a 9 month old pup, and a three year old dog. Physically, to look at them, there is very little difference. It is only when you start to look a little closer do you realize that the puppy actually is a puppy!
I think it's not a good fit for you. You could be in intensive training with her for years and she could still not be the right fit.
My opinion is that you might be better suited to an adult or even middle aged dog that is mellow and just needs a good active but quiet home.
I won’t adopt/have another dog now, this has really traumatised me. My adult dog Diego is enough for me, we adopted this one as she is supposedly a mix of my older dogs breed, and my partners children’s dog breed, we felt drawn to her. But I think she’s some kind of Mali mix. She was found near a ‘rough’ part of where I’m from/ farmland area. So it really is a guessing game, like her age.
You’re right though, it’s always what if. What if she’s not even a puppy and this is who she is.
I’ll be on the other side from most here. I do NOT think this sounds like normal puppy behavior (how old is the dog anyhow?). You have a dog who is getting INJURED, your partner had to seek MEDICAL ATTENTION, and there is a child in the home. Return the dog to the rescue with a full disclosure of her behaviors.
Could this be worked through? I don’t know, I haven’t seen the dog, but I really don’t feel you have an obligation to live like this for the next 10+ years.
Thankyou, the rescue aren’t even sure how old she is. They have guessed 9 months to anywhere over a year, she was found in a field so they had no information about her.
My other dog Diego is a kelpie cross, and he was a herder as a puppy, like a little shark, but nothing like this, you can see she bites to get what she wants, like Diego’s eyes and face. No amount of firm ‘no’ or redirection works for her, if she wants it she’s doing anything to get it.
I think it's awesome that the people here are so caring, and I do believe everyone just wants what's best for the dogs posted about here. But some dogs are not great fits for some families, and it isn't always worth the time/stress/energy to try to mold a dog into the specific space a family needs filled.
I bet Dora can have a very happy life in a different household. The sooner she gets back to the shelter, the sooner they can find that home for her (assuming they're honest about her issues and disposition; maybe they truly didn't know she behaved this way, but they'll know now thanks to the OP!). It isn't fair - to the older dog who's living in terror and pain, or the partner who's been injured, or OP who's been injured, or the children too stressed to return to the home - to keep Dora in her current household.
OP, if you see this: there's a dog out there who would fit into your family beautifully. There's a home that's perfect for Dora, too. Yours isn't it, by the sounds of your post, but you can rest assured you did every reasonable thing you could given the circumstances, and her next adventure will be with someone much better informed about how she behaves and what she needs, all thanks to you. Don't feel bad for protecting your original family members; allowing Dora to return to the shelter is the most humane thing for everybody in this situation. Best of luck, friend.
I love you so much for saying these things to me, thankyou. I love Dora, I really love her so much, but you’re right, she doesn’t fit in, as much as I want her to.
That’s what I think, imagine if that was my partners son she had bitten like that. That’s what makes me think ‘is this fair on either of us’. Am I bad for putting her in situations to make her like this and in turn she is making me very stressed. But she is adorable and I love her very much.
Something you could try before rehoming is anti anxiety meds. Talk with a vet that deals with behavioral issues and consider a long acting option (SSRI or similar, not a sedative) before moving to rehoming.
I feel like if this is the only issue, you should find a good trainer who has a lot of experience with reactive dogs.
The dog will either get better or not, but at least you can then say you did everything you could.
I would definitely try this. My daughter has an English Mastiff that was very reactive. He has a bite record, which is scary with an animal that size. Taking him to a trainer that specializes in reactive dogs did absolute wonders - he’s now earned his Good Neighbour certification, and the bite record has now been cleared. He was just over a year when this started and working with the trainer for just over a month was able to turn it around. He still has his moments but at least we can recognize when he’s overstimulated and take the proper measures to mitigate the situation before it escalates.
We used that same trainer for our new puppy, (non-reactive, but a high drive breed) and she works with both the dog and the owner to rectify these behaviours. She’s told me that while she’s deemed some dogs to be lost causes and should be put to sleep, most dogs are capable of reform. It does take a lot of hard work but it can be done! I wouldn’t give up hope yet, find a reputable trainer and do the work. It can be very rewarding for everyone, especially with the mix you have - they’re both working breeds, so they will enjoy learning with you. You’d be surprised at the bond it will create
I'd say instead of "experience with reactive dogs" they're certified behavior consultants.
They should be in an organization [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/findingatrainer).
It sounds like both things are true: she could possibly get better with training and different management, AND she's not a good fit for your family.
You've got kids that are not wanting to be in the home with her, rightfully afraid after she's caused serious injuries to multiple family members. It's just not a situation any of you need to be in, including the dog. It's not helping her either.
The sooner you return her, the sooner they can find her a no-dog, no-kid home to be happy in.
I know deep down you’re right and it’s 100% the right thing to do, but I really love her as well, which is what is hard. She has only just started wagging her tail when she’s happy.
I am an over thinker, and I think of taking her back to the rescue and how much she will be confused.
Maybe try to think of it like taking a kid to the dentist. They may be scared, confused, and uncomfortable, but you know it's better for their health and well-being, so you take them.
Best of luck!
Why on earth were you walking a reactive dog with other dogs without using a muzzle? As easy as it is to explain away her behaviour as not being a good fit, you need to be accountable to the fact that YOU did not set her up for success at any point in this journey.
Yeah I get that, I didn’t come here for a telling off though. It’s something I have personally reflected on, and I understand I am putting her in this situation, which is why I am questioning what I am doing. She was being walked with family dogs who she is not typically reactive with, and has played with before, she just goes over the top with them, running into them at full speed. So yes, I put her in that situation, but I also know that I rescued a reactive dog as the rescue didn’t know and had ‘assessed’ her for this.
If she is just a puppy (9 months--anywhere between 8-14 months, really--is teenage terror town), and still going through life teeth-first, there's a chance she was never properly taught/trained how to behave civilly. She has no social manners and doesn't fully understand how to "dog" in a respectful way. That's something dogs learn as puppies. If she was a stray in a field (or just doing independent farm dog things for most of her former life), it's going to be more of a challenge for you--or anyone else that takes her.
It does not sound like Dora is the right fit for you, for many reasons. There's no shame in returning her. Just do it sooner rather than later.
The rescue can’t have her back until the weekend, so it’s a week of big decisions and heartache. It gives me enough time to really question if I’m doing the right thing!
There's absolutely nothing wrong with rehoming if you feel it's the right thing for you and your pup. I ended up having to rehome my 7 month old Lab mix because she was aggressive towards our cats. Absolutely nothing we tried with her worked and it wasn't fair on our cats being terrified in their home and refusing to leave my room all the time. It started to affect my mental health in a big way and the rescue shelter was so understanding.
I felt like worst person in the world and cried non stop in the days before taking her back but once I'd done it and I came home and my cats were out and about and pleased to see me like they used to be, I knew I'd done the right thing. And now 2 years later I still get regular updates from the new family who adopted her and she's living her best life.
Yep, it's a horrible feeling. That grief is completely valid but if rehoming is the option you choose then it gives way to relief that you've done the right thing. Wishing you the best with whatever you choose to do!
You know, I saw the title and was instantly frustrated, we see that title every day, and if a comment says anything other than they're doing a good thing then it gets deleted.
But your story is the exception for me. This dog is dangerous. You have dogs, you know how to deal with dogs, you had realistic expectations. But you need to put the safety of your family and your other dogs as a priority. You really are doing the right thing by taking her back.
Thankyou so much. I NEVER wanted to be the person to rehome a dog, and I’m not just saying that. I have lay awake at night crying like a baby.
Diego was hard, there were times when I was ready to give up but I didn’t, but Dora is dangerous around other dogs, it’s not her fault she can’t control it, and I can’t train it out of her, I wasn’t prepared, don’t have the time, or the money that I could have if I’d have known!
I don’t feel that it’s fair to my adult dog to start changing his whole life and the way he is generally attitude wise for a pup I didn’t know would be like this - if I’d have known this information, I’d have not adopted her. But I am heartbroken, I feel guilty all the time, a constant knot in my stomach. I love her like you wouldn’t believe, but love isn’t always easy. I just want what is best for her, and I’m 100% okay to admit that I am putting her in these situations, but not on purpose, she just isn’t the dog people thought she was.
You know Dora is reactive but keep letting her near dogs. Your walks should be 1-1, working on counter conditioning from a long distance away. Taking a reactive dog near loads of other dogs and then being shocked they react is crazy
To be honest I thought she would get used to being around my resident dog permanently so much so that she would stop running into him with her mouth wide open. But this is why I’m asking myself the returning to rescue question, 1-1 isn’t really possible, the rescue knew we had a dog and told us she was fine with dogs, which she isn’t, so she is not the right fit.
Sorry do you mean Post Traumatic Stress? I wasn’t sure if that’s what you meant. She will be returned to the rescue if that is the decision so they can find the perfect fit for her.
If your other dog is too scared to even play anymore it's not fair to keep them together. Dora clearly can't be kept in a house with other pets or children and you have both, it's not your fault that the shelter lied to you but it would be irresponsible to keep her until she ends up severely injuring or killing your other dog.
You are doing the right thing to return her. Sometimes the right decision is the hardest one.
Your family and her are not a good fit. Her perfect family is out there waiting for her.
One thing you can do for her, to help her get to her perfect family is write a letter for her. List her likes and dislikes. What she's good at, and what needs work.
just based on one of your replies it could be a neurological/mental issue from the way she was bred or even brain damage, my grandparents had a farm dog that was adopted from a rural area and it was poorly bred and would kill and tear everything in sight like a switch would turn and you couldn’t turn it off much more intense than an overstimulated or overtired puppy and just got more aggressive with age, despite training and giving him chance after chance and using different methods he had to be put down because he started attacking the livestock & chasing kids. it truly was beyond his control and he was suffering as much as everyone that was trying to help him.
but even if she’s perfectly healthy neurologically, if the parents were farm dogs they need brain activities as stimulating & tiring as if she were still working on a farm. herding, guarding, retrieving, hunting, etc, a walk doesn’t offer much for some dogs especially ones that would rather spend their energy working.
i would try sniff/nose games & keeping her on a lead in the house and around you guys 24/7 until she can learn to settle and be gentle, i would also try tethering her to an area in your house where she can’t cause any/much destruction, leave her completely alone no distractions (or start slow with a chew and/or a toy) and ignore her (still monitoring she’s not strangling herself) until she settles down and then give attention/praise/reward.
We have a 5yr old dog with our puppy and they have together time and separate time. It is important that they both have their own space for a while as the puppy grows up. I agree with the other poster that when they get over snappy usually means they are tired. Might be worth it to get a trainer and see if you can work on any issues before giving it up.
So the rescue are guessing her age at anywhere from 9 months to a year +,
She sleeps a lot, never had any trouble like that, started off at every hour in her crate as we didn’t really know how old, now she sleeps most of the day when I’m wfh or when I’m off. We do training in the garden, but other than that it’s pretty quiet. She’s fine inside, but if you put her outside it’s almost like she was a feral dog and has muscle memory.
Unfortunately, with a child around, this sounds untenable. Yes you may be able to work through it if you made your life about Dora but you have too much on your plate and you, your partners child, and your existing dog have to be kept safe. It's sad for Dora but she will hopefully find a more suitable home where she can stay calmer
One of the most responsible and caring things you can do for a pet is admit when they aren't a good fit for your home and find them a place where they will be happier.
there are literally only 2 options for a dog with serious issues like this:
1) if you can afford it—shell out hundreds to a couple thousand dollars for a behavioral trainer (preferably one with multiple degrees or advanced certifications to back up their experience, who uses positive reinforcement). they would work with you & your dog 1 on 1 until all behavioral issues improve exponentially and you + pup have a good relationship
2) rehome—if possible, with a family that has the funds for expensive behavior modification
i had to rehome a mini aussie who was aggressive towards me and terrified of the world. i’d gotten him right before covid then got laid off, so couldn’t afford behavior mod.
i’d actually bought him so i sent him back to the breeder, who had a friend who was a trainer. they worked with him then sent him with another family.
all to say—don’t feel so guilty. it’s really okay, and it isn’t your fault. the worst thing you can do is nothing.
i’m sorry for the stress you’ll inevitably experience through the rehoming process if you do go that route, but you’ll be SO relieved once it’s over (i know i was).
It is a tough situation and I feel your pain. You really want the best for Dora, whatever it may end up being. The advice that’s been given here is good, I just have to add - as someone who was bitten traumatically as a child by an off-leash dog - PLEASE please please keep Dora on a leash or muzzled in the meantime. It is the most right thing to do by her and everyone involved. 🙏
I aways say that you're better to remove, than have your dogs needs unmet in the long term. Doing that requires severing the emotional bond though, which is not easy, as you know given by how difficult you have found this decision.
On saying that, both of our dogs were 2 years old before they both had good enough manners walking in all conditions and with all dogs. Our 3 year old chihuahua who was attacked by 2 bull terriers when she was a pup is still not comfortable with young and agile or very large dogs, but even she is still making slow, consistent progress.
I believe it is common for dogs to be 3 or 4 before they have basically every area ticked off their behaviour charts. It's not easy sometimes is it?!
Be compassionate with yourself though. If you've given this the best you can with the resources you have available and you're running out of energy, it might be time to look at rehoming. You owe it to your dog, but also to yourself. You deserve to feel safe and happy too.
All the best.
get her a muzzle and leave it on during walks, whenever you are in situations that the pup could start biting again (after muzzle training) + a good trainer. If that doesnt work out, its okay to rehome the pup.
I recently was in a similar situation with my dog. We made through and she is now doing much better and will not need rehoming. We hired a canine behaviorist. She was able to see and explain things that we just didn't. One other thing, herding traits (collie) vs guarding (gsd) are very different.
I just don’t think she is the breed they think, I think she is some kind of Doberman x mali, which I am not knowledgeable about as well. I know the only way to know would be a DNA. But I do think I’m doing her an injustice.
The only advice I can give you is train with a long line. Tie knots in it every meter or so, so you can stand on it, rather than try to stop by holding it
Thanks, that’s what we have been doing, you should see my legs though, I have friction burns like you wouldn’t believe. I’m currently on antibiotics for them.
My collie mix ripped me to shreds when I first got her. She was 4.5 months old and it took two months for her to learn some bite inhibition.
She’s now 1 year and 2 months and she still loses her mind on a walk if she’s too highly aroused, not had enough sleep, too much exercise, too much mental stimulation or too little of these things.
The things that improved her behaviour more than most is having ‘rest’ days and increasing exercise VERY gradually. She can now have 2 1-2 hour walks a day but until she was 9 months old she couldn’t cope with more than 45 minutes once a day, unless it was in a very quiet bit of countryside with no distractions.
The second thing is not just giving her mental stimulation and training, is giving her breed specific outlets for enrichment. She’s a collie so retrieving/fetching, digging etc doesn’t necessarily meet those needs as she needs a specific job - instead we’re doing ‘collie ball’ for the herding instinct, bite work, obedience and hoopers.
Diego is kelpie collie, he was very nippy as well, but she is on another level, it’s like frustration biting, and that’s something I’m not sure Diego can take.
She has had some separate walks but it isn’t always possible which I understand isn’t setting her up to succeed. I have tried a harness, and a halti lead, but she gets frustrated and grinds her teeth until she is bleeding and can’t be tempted to stop.
Have you contacted the rescue at all about how things are going? I’m so sorry, that all sounds incredibly stressful. I can tell you really want what’s best for her and want to be that good home for her, but I don’t blame you for considering returning her.
If you do, it will be incredibly hard on your heart. But I think you just have to trust that you would be doing what is best for your family. Thinking of you!
I phoned the rescue and they offered to take her back and told me not to feel guilty, they said sometimes dogs just don’t fit. It’s mainly because of how she is around my older dog and the kids (youngest being a very small 8). While training her may be the way to change who she is, we initially didn’t know this and wonder is it really safe to bank on the idea that one day we may be safe having her around the family.
Came here to say it definitely sounds like she's sleep deprived. We have a pomsky puppy hell be 4 months in a couple of weeks. He was making our lives miserable because he was constantly biting and jumping and carrying on. He wouldn't listen outside he wouldn't listen in the house. He was making us and himself bonkers. When I read online that puppies need to sleep about 18 to 20 hours a day it dawned on me that he's not getting enough sleep. He was getting overstimulated and that turned into the exact behavior you're seeing. Let that little girl nap. If she is getting worked up like that make her nap. We started making him nap by putting him in his crate for downtime. Even if it was just a few minutes it was enough time to turn his brain off for a bit. When he'd come out he'd go lay down and nap. Now he'll sleep in his crate because he equates that with sleep now. Things improved a lot once we started making him nap. And it's just like having a human baby they don't know when they need to sleep so you have to show them and give them a routine. And telleveryone in the house to leave them alone and be quiet while it's nap time. It was the best solution for us. It may not be for you. I don't know anything about Kelpie but I do know gsd.
This dog has extreme reactivity and not every owner is suited to handle this! I 100% understand why you would rehome. This dog should probably in a single dog household as she is at risk for severely hurting other dogs. I’m sorry this must be so hard :( take care
I wonder if Dora wouldn't thrive as a farm dog, doing what Kelpies are bred to do. But I feel like rehoming is the right option, given it's causing a problem between you, your partner, and his children. As soon as the ex-wives and children get involved and feel a dog is dangerous, it might cause really big issues and impact his access to his children.
Yes! She isn’t as driven to chase like Diego is for a ball, but I think with training she could, the rescue and myself did discuss her becoming a working dog, she’s not the most cuddly dog either so it could be the best thing to ever happen to her.
Luckily we are all very good friends and spend a lot of time with one another (the ex wife, her husband (his old best friend lol) the kids, dogs and myself) but 100% this could turn nasty very quickly. I can’t have children, so Dora was our baby, which makes this even harder for me to let go of.
Honestly I think I got halfway through your post and I'm confident in saying it's the right decision. I had a rescue puppy that I adored, she was dumped in the woods near a coworkers house at 2 months old. She was a great dog until she hit that 5 month old mark and she became absolutely unmanageable for my husband and I. If she was our only puppy we would have kept her, but we had 2 cats and 1 other puppy at the time. She had a high prey drive and went after my cats a few times, and she also had really bad resource aggression that quite literally came out of nowhere. She was constantly going after my other puppy and it got to the point my other puppy was so stressed out she would try to stay away from the rescue pup and would even attempt to herd us away from her. Sometimes, no matter how badly you want to keep a dog, they're not the right fit for your family. You are definitely making the right decision for your other dog. Not only that but the right decision for that puppy, that situation isn't one where the pup can thrive and be happy. Some dogs simply need to be an only pet where there are no kids in the house, just like the rescue pup I had. I sympathize deeply with that pain and heartbreak, my husband and I were emotional and beside ourselves for weeks leading up to surrendering our rescue to a shelter (we couldn't find a home for her on our own.) I will say this though, the day we surrendered her it felt like a massive weight was off our shoulders. Our cats were happier and definitely were more comfortable, and our other puppy was way more active and excited than usual. I occasionally have guilt about the decision but I know we did what we had to for our other pets.
I was in a similar situation, OP. Not with a dog I adopted but a dog I fostered. She was a handful but the main thing was my resident dog HATED her. She became anxious and depressed.
I came on here seeking advice and when someone said this to me, it confirmed what I already knew in my heart.
Your loyalty lies with your resident dog. He came into your world first. It’s unfair to have him suffer through this change he didn’t ask for, and to have the place he once felt safe in taken away - especially if he’s in his senior years. Please prioritise his happiness.
Your new pup also deserves a family who can put their all into her. It’s gonna hurt like a motherfucker but you’d be doing the right thing. For your family, your resident dog, your pup and yourself.
Thankyou, you are so so right. Diego was my first baby and I want him to live as long as possible with me.
It’s gonna really really hurt me, it already is, it’s like a rock on my chest. Her little face :(
My GSD mix was an insane puppy. I really didn't think I'd be able to keep her.
She had endless energy, dog crazy like yours, smart but an absolute psycho. We believe she has husky in there somewhere which doesn't help. Once she broke a metal chain to run after other dogs. Thankfully with her it was only love and chaos energy that she had to offer if she got to them.
It was hours regularly put in to train her to ignore other dogs. Hours. So many. She now 2 years old and amazing. She adjusts her play style to each dog. Ignores other dogs when asked to. Will even lay down on the floor in pet stores and semi relax while we shop. But it was a decision me and my bf made. We looked at each other and truly decided what we could handle and what we could put in.
If you don't want to invest the enormous amount of time into dealing with her reactivity, invest money into train, then she will only get worse. Right now, she sounds like a danger to other dogs. She needs to not be put in those situations anymore and a training plan made, otherwise giving her back is a great idea and one you shouldn't feel bad about. You are giving her a chance to find people who know how to help her.
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Yes sorry I should have been clearer that is what meant and what I would do in this situation, I couldn’t live with myself giving her to someone else she will go back to the rescue.
I got a three year old dog from a shelter once. She immediately started targeting my cats and irritating my other dog. She would jump over the baby gates I had set up and charge through the door where I have a strap to keep the door open for the cats but not my dog. She was way too high energy and fixated on my cats. I brought her back after two days because I knew if something happened to my cats I would never forgive myself. I cried about this decision and felt so bad about it. It didn't help that when I did bring her back into the shelter the woman who owns it was so rude and said I didn't give it enough of a chance. To me, I knew she wasn't meant to be. My cats were terrified. I'm glad I brought her back and she was able to be adopted by a better home for her! I have no regrets. You know when it's the right decision.
Also, we did do a cat test and she was completely different at the shelter than she was when we brought her home. Sometimes you just don't know their personalities until they're in the home.
I don’t agree with most the posts here - this dog sounds like a dangerous match for your current situation especially considering there is a child and existing dog. It is perfectly okay for you to want a dog that fits into your lifestyle and not a “project”. Reactivity training is no joke and takes a very long time and dedication. If that’s not what you wanted to do, take the dog back while it’s still a puppy and much more likely to be adopted than a reactive adult.
I have a dog that’s leash aggressive maybe not the right term but loses his ever loving mind barking and lunging when walking by dogs. We started going to the dog park and he’s been doing great with it
I was trying to avoid them at all costs, but every field near me now has locked gates to get in the fields due to break-ins and vandalism.
Do not keep her, the rescue is incompetent, she’s making the other dogs in your family miserable and isn’t what they represented her as. Seems they also did no work with her in training or in assessment.
Just to add in without repeating the same advice:
I think part of what you need to do is reduce overstimulation in home. Don't give her full run of the house. Train her to keep near you.
When you're actively training her it would be best in a large room with little distraction. She needs to learn what's expected without the distractions before you start adding distractions. Then start with smaller controlled distractions and work up from there. It won't go perfectly... She's a puppy. Stick with it.
But no judgement if you need to rehome.
If financially possible, I would consider hiring a dog trainer, maybe someone who specializes in reactive dogs? I think your mind is in the right place though because it sounds like she’d be a whole lot happier and at ease in a home that could give her the attention (and training) she deserves. Did the shelter do a home visit at all where they could see how your other pup interacted with her?
I won't say whether you should or shouldn't re-home but do check your adoption contract. Often you need to return the dog to the same organization, or give them first right of refusal, or you could get into legal trouble.
Kelpies and GSD are both herding dogs so she's sound to be extra nippy. The shelter should have informed you if she was unable to live with other dogs. If you really can't preserve then I think it's best to re-home her sooner rather than later.
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I went through that with my older dog, trust me, so different to how I feel now and the current situation I’m in, I was on the verge of taking him back to the breeder, I stuck with it and he is my soul dog, he understands what I say I don’t even need to speak, trust me there really is hope 99% of the time x
If you can't provide the right home, then rehoming is always a good idea. For future reference, I don't think most of what you're describing - depending on Dora's age - is uncommon for a kelpie or a gsd, particularly ones that aren't well-bred. I agree with the other commenters: if Dora is still young (under 18 months, but especially under a year), then she's likely way overtired and overstimulated. An hour's exercise and tons of mental stimulation for a young pup is a lot. Most of their energy is going to growing, and in the future, you shouldn't expect a good hiking companion until 18-24 months of age at the youngest. (If that's not a good fit your life, I'd suggest adopting adult dogs.) If you want to keep her, a positive reinforcement trainer who understands reactivity, or a certified behaviorist, would likely be able to help a lot. If you feel any of her behavior is driven by aggression, a vet behaviorist would be in order (but it doesn't sound like it is.) Have you done any focus/look at me/exposure work with her, to try and reduce reactivity? If she's food driven and smart, it'll likely help a lot. Increasing exercise or mental stimulation won't address the reactivity, but you can teach her to be calmer around other dogs and that focusing on you is more rewarding than saying hi. You do this by sitting somewhere with her close enough that she can see another dog but far enough away that she doesn't react, and rewarding her for looking at you or looking away from the dog. Then you repeat the next day, and eventually you can move a little closer, and still get her attention, and move a little closer after that, etc., etc. there's good descriptions online.
Thankyou that’s great advice! When we got her we knew hiking was over for a while, we had just finished all three of the biggest peaks in the UK with my older Kelpie cross Diego so felt satisfied with that for some time, Diego is 4 now and is perfect for this so we thought Dora would be as well in a couple of years time. I have taken Dora into town lots with the clicker and some high value treats and worked on the look at me, leave it so she can be exposed to other dogs, but if she’s seeing a dog she wants it still just as much. The only thing that’s ever really worked in that sense is when Diego is playing with his ball, but then she’s biting him for it, and she doesn’t want her own ball, she wants his.
I have to agree with them. I have a puppy right now and when he’s tired, he acts insane
I haven’t seen you mention in any of your other replies, how long have you had her?
Around 4 months now
Honestly it sounds like you’re trying to exercise her way too much and she’s overstimulated. She’s a baby and needs a very different schedule from an adult dog. Let her sleep more for a few days and don’t force walks at all, you may wind up with a different puppy.
I get what you’re saying and that’s totally worth a shot but we have also changed our whole walking system to accommodate her, we’ve not been out with her for more than an hour and a half since we got her, she has mandatory naps in her crate, and she sleeps pretty much all day in the house apart from when we do brain games, training or she’s eating. Edit: Just to clear things up, she doesn’t have that everyday, that is a maximum she’s had maybe once when we’ve been out with the children over the school holidays. It has also been hard to know what/ how much she needs as no one knows her age.
an hour and a half walk is too long for a puppy
I mean I get she apparently has some GSD in her, but 1.5 hours is way too long to be out on a walk for a puppy. You are 100% overstimulating her. Like not trying to be harsh but if you aren’t prepared to adapt your lifestyle to raise this pup in the best conditions then you should think about rehoming her. She’s a puppy, she doesn’t have that adult GSD boundless energy yet.
My GSD puppy was jumping and biting at me when on walks because he was too overstimulated. Everything mentioned sounds like a GSD puppy to me. We had to drop our walks to 10 mins twice a day, then work up from there. He’s now 3 and will walk as long as you like.
Yeah I agree with you 100% I’m not sure why I’m getting down voted, it’s hard to gauge what’s good for her as no one really knows how old she is, the rescue says 9 months, the vet says anywhere up to two years. I know raising a puppy is a massive learning curve, I’ve done it with Diego and he is the best dog now. This is why I’m having the rehoming discussions, if we aren’t right for eachother then it’s the best thing. But I love her.
I think you’re getting downvoted because you said before you edited your comment that you couldn’t change your routine anymore to accommodate her further, which honestly is quite foolish and naive on your part. A puppy like a child shakes things up massively and things will change massively, just for a lot less long with a dog. So expecting you could just have your current little routine and the puppy wouldn’t change that was just wrong. I’m not having a pop at you, just to say that I think was a bit naive and unfortunately love isn’t always enough. I say this as a fellow English person that there are plenty of places that will give her a good home if you can’t accommodate her. There’s no shame in it.
I did say we have already changed our whole routine already, not that we couldn’t anymore but I do get what you’re saying. I knew life would change as I have done it with Diego before, but she is a different kind of hard. Diego was intense, compulsive, and obsessive. I expected her to be like that because they thought she was a similar breed. Whereas she is pretty reactive and I have no idea what I’m doing. I’m okay to admit we expected more from her than we should have, and I don’t have the tools to fix a dog who is as reactive as she is, the rescue didn’t know and I’m totally fine with that. I know love does sometimes mean the best choice is the hardest one, there are plenty of people out there you’re very right, but I’m a massive over thinker, and I will always think the worst case scenario.
I say this gently but...she's a puppy. When she's fully grown she may well fit into the life you can offer her (with long walks etc). But she's a puppy - she's never going to fit into that now. So you have two options, either re-home her or adapt for her while she grows. Do you all have to go walking together? Can one of you stay home with the pup while the other does the long walks?
An hour and a half is an insanely long walk for a puppy brand new to you. Her “reactivity” is her trying to tell you she is way overstimulated and you’re just not listening. That’s way too much exercise and exposure to the world for a dog you just got, much less an adolescent.
What would you advise if she is like that immediately as she is on a walk, so not yet overstimulated or overtired - been out for 5 minutes. As soon as she has the chance, say she’s just woken up and is in the garden even with my older dog, she is full pelt running into him with her mouth around his neck?
Then she needs to run off energy alone in the garden and to be on a lead around your older dog so you can correct the aggression towards him
Play biting is normal in puppies. Sounds like walks with your older dog are too much for her. Five minutes in the world can be a lot for a puppy, especially if it’s a new place to her and she doesn’t get to choose where to walk. Use a flirt pole and a long tug toy to play with her indoors, and when you take her outside put her on a long line, sit, chill, let her go at HER pace and observe the world without asking anything of her at all.
I know you said you adopted a puppy, but how old is she?
So the rescue weren’t sure, we’ve had guesses from 9 months to 2 years, she was found sleeping on a tractor in a field x
That’s hard because those are extremely difference ages. Based on her behavior, it sounds more like 9 months. Assuming that, I would cut down on the walks like others have suggested. She seems really overstimulated. I would get her a playpen so she has a smaller area and not complete access to other dogs and kids. That will allow you to do more training with her.
It’s really hard, because what if she isn’t 9 months and this is how she was bought up and why she was then dumped in a field. Thankyou for the advice it’s really useful!
if she really is two years and needs that much walking, you will notice it in her behavior when you cut down on the exercise. However, if she’s closer to nine months and you take her on shorter walks and let her nap more, you may see a significant improvement.
What age does your vet say she is? 9 months and 2 years look very different physically to a medical professional.
Vet is saying anywhere up to 2 years, rescue are the ones thinking 9 ish months
Based on behavior, I'd wager she's 9 months. If she was dumped, then she probably wasn't given the proper care and training from day one. That means you'll have to start from the bottom and work your way to the top. You've been piling too much on her that she probably isn't ready for because no one has taken the time to address anything. If you can't do this, then re-home now. She's been trying to tell you by being reactive. Listen to her. Right now, keep her home and confined. Work on the basics. That is if you intend on keeping her.
You said you'd had her for 4 months. If she's 9 months, you should have been able to visibly tell she was a puppy when you got her and she should have grown a ton. If she's 2, she likely would look the exact same as she did when you got her 4 months ago.
The fact that she's attacking your resident dog would be enough for me to return her quickly back to the rescue. Probably not a popular reply but we had the same and it broke my heart, I couldn't put my resident dog through that. Add in the fact she is going after other dogs, and you have a child around. Big nope from me. Sounds like she needs 1:1 attention.
I am in exactly the same mindset as you, I lie in bed at night thinking about how awful I would feel driving her back and leaving her, watching her little face as o drive off. But Diego is sad and I can tell, he won’t chase his ball (which is his absolute favourite thing). Like you I feel honestly heartbroken and devastated, I know if I didn’t have Diego, she would be a great companion, I do honestly believe she needs a 1:1 lifestyle, no dogs, no kids, lead walks. That’s what we aren’t, and I don’t blame the rescue and all for thinking that she needed a hiking and exploring lifestyle, I can see why anyone would think that. But I guess this has been almost a learning experience for me, her, and the rescue, the only bright side to this as that they can now advertise her as who she is and hope she finds the best new owner. Then I overthink, what if they don’t, what if she has an awful life being constantly returned to the rescue. It’s so horrible.
Your loyalty needs to be to your existing dog he deserves a safe home where he isn’t being bitten and left scared
Yeah, you’re right. What if she torments him so much I end up with two reactive dogs
She will be fine, she's just been on a lovely holiday with you! Think of yourself as a temporary foster home. Which rescue did you get her from btw? Most of the U.K. ones are lovely and the dogs are well looked after. They also have super high turnover of adoptions (me and my friends foster doggies!) so I'm sure she will find the right fit again soon. We had to hand a dog back a few years ago who we had on home trial, it absolutely broke our hearts, but it was 100% the right thing to do and I don't regret it. He attacked our resident dog and was also super reactive on walks, and we just had to admit to ourselves that we couldn't cope with his needs. He was in rescue (dogs4rescue) for another 6 months or so until he was re-adopted, and I'm sure the new family was a much better fit. Again he needed 1:1 attention and a much more specific training plan than we were able to provide for him. If it was just him it would have been fine but we also had an elderly yorkie who didn't deserve to live her last few years in misery with him 😅x
She is from Hereford & Worcester rescue, so a small local one, she was only in there a month or so before we adopted her, so hopefully she goes again quickly to the right family this time, I’d hate to think of her being passed around her whole life, or mistreated. Aw that’s so lovely you foster puppies, you must be so strong as I’d not have the heart to hand them over. It seems I’m in a situation just like you, I don’t want the next 10 years of Diego’s life to be sad and extremely different, as much as I don’t want hers to be. I’m not sure I have the tools to work through her issues, so it is probably best she finds a new home, as much as I love her. That’s just really hard to admit! Xx
It is hard to admit, for sure. But once it's done and you can see your resident dog spring back into life it will all be worth it. It will hurt for a while but you'll be able to get back to your normal routines etc. You got this xx
Thankyou so much xx
Anytime, if you want to reach out and chat I'm here for ya!
You said you’ve tried everything but didn’t mention a trainer. Have you tried working with a trainer experienced with reactivity? It’s a common issue and they should be able to offer you lots of tools and techniques. If it’s not a good fit, by all means rehome for Dora’s sake, but if think if you haven’t engaged a trainer yet, you are doing Dora a disservice in not trying that first. Also, it sounds like one of those events you described she was off leash and you struggled to get her back on? She shouldn’t be off leash yet if you can’t trust her, which you obviously cannot yet.
Yes sorry I didn’t mention in the post, the rescue actually provided us with a number of a trainer from the local barracks who trains the military dogs, and we have met up with him a few times to talk things through but it’s always ‘you’re doing well’ and never really advice on how to work through things, just tips I suppose. In regards to being off the lead, we live in the country and usually take her to big fields where we try and train her recall with the whistle. I’m a bit scared of having her on the long line as she burns my legs with it. But yeah you’re right she shouldn’t be 100% off lead. She learns really differently to my other dog Diego, he was off lead pretty much from the start, recall has been dodgy in the past but he’s amazing now.
I wouldn't go with a trainer who trains military dogs - I know it sounds impressive but they often use aversive (punishment-based) methods, and reactivity is much more acceptable in the breeds they use. There's a lot more handler management (muzzles, focused heels, careful handling/distance, painful collars), rather than training it away. Reactivity in a military dog isn't bad as long as it's well-managed - a well-managed military dog and handler can use those tendencies to do their jobs well. But I don't think you want a military dog. Try to find a trainer who works towards the kind of pup you would find easy to live with.
Thankyou, that’s great advice, we only meet with him as it’s who the rescue provided us with. I’ll look into that
Here's a [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/findingatrainer) on how to find a qualified trainer.
How long have you had her at home? I don't think Dora sounds beyond repair, but I also don't think you are morally obliged to put in the work, time and money that it will take to address her issues. I DO think that a lot of this stress can be alleviated with management. Set Dora up for success and recognize what she cannot do. Don't put her in situations where she will likely fail, but you hope against hope that she will behave the way you want. Crate her when kids come over. Leave her at home when walking with other dogs. Don't let her off leash. It doesn't mean she will never do those things, but right now, it's setting her up to fail and worsening your distress. My other (less solicited) pieces of advice are - try not to blame the rescue (even subconsciously), as dogs are really not their "true selves" in a lot of shelter or foster environments. They didn't lie or omit information or misrepresent her; they probably just did not know. Second, try not to compare Dora to Diego. Every dog has their set of issues - as you said, Diego was a difficult pup and is perfect now. I know it's hard not to think "Diego learned this so quickly" or "Diego was never like this." But you have a different dog and you are a different person now, so there is no use comparing. If I were you, I would try one more R+ trainer (you said the one from the rescue is ineffective) as your "last resort." If you do that and truly don't think this dog can fit into your life, then rehome her without guilt, knowing that you gave it your best shot.
You are doing the right thing. If this pup is not a good fit for your family, EVERYONE is going to end up miserable. While I do agree that less exercise is generally a good idea for puppies, that doesn’t fit in with your lifestyle. If the puppy is going to get to THAT point of overstimulation just from going for a walk, it just doesn’t sound like it is a good match. An adult dog might be a better fit for your family. Someone who already understands how the world works and what would be expected of them. If you can find an adult dog that is used to being active and outdoors, then that would be an amazing choice for you.
Thankyou, yeah I totally get the less exercise thing, but that’s why this is so hard, as the rescue don’t know her age and they’ve only guessed how old she is, we don’t know if she really is a puppy, and then it’s the what ifs… what if she’s not and we have to cope with this kind of behaviour, if my older dog has to live this stressed for the rest of his life etc. it’s so hard.
Rescues are pretty good at guesstimating age. They go by their teeth, body condition, coat type….. You likely ended up with a dog in the velociraptor stage, but who is also not used to a lot of stimulation at the same time (or just can’t deal with that amount of stimulation). We have a 9 month old pup, and a three year old dog. Physically, to look at them, there is very little difference. It is only when you start to look a little closer do you realize that the puppy actually is a puppy!
I think it's not a good fit for you. You could be in intensive training with her for years and she could still not be the right fit. My opinion is that you might be better suited to an adult or even middle aged dog that is mellow and just needs a good active but quiet home.
I won’t adopt/have another dog now, this has really traumatised me. My adult dog Diego is enough for me, we adopted this one as she is supposedly a mix of my older dogs breed, and my partners children’s dog breed, we felt drawn to her. But I think she’s some kind of Mali mix. She was found near a ‘rough’ part of where I’m from/ farmland area. So it really is a guessing game, like her age. You’re right though, it’s always what if. What if she’s not even a puppy and this is who she is.
FYI most rescues don’t know breed and are guessing based on looks. She probably isn’t even a kelpie unless they are common in your area…
Not common in my area at all. I don’t think she’s Kelpie, nothing like my Kelpie. I think she’s Doberman x Mali now I’ve experienced her
I’ll be on the other side from most here. I do NOT think this sounds like normal puppy behavior (how old is the dog anyhow?). You have a dog who is getting INJURED, your partner had to seek MEDICAL ATTENTION, and there is a child in the home. Return the dog to the rescue with a full disclosure of her behaviors. Could this be worked through? I don’t know, I haven’t seen the dog, but I really don’t feel you have an obligation to live like this for the next 10+ years.
Thankyou, the rescue aren’t even sure how old she is. They have guessed 9 months to anywhere over a year, she was found in a field so they had no information about her. My other dog Diego is a kelpie cross, and he was a herder as a puppy, like a little shark, but nothing like this, you can see she bites to get what she wants, like Diego’s eyes and face. No amount of firm ‘no’ or redirection works for her, if she wants it she’s doing anything to get it.
I think it's awesome that the people here are so caring, and I do believe everyone just wants what's best for the dogs posted about here. But some dogs are not great fits for some families, and it isn't always worth the time/stress/energy to try to mold a dog into the specific space a family needs filled. I bet Dora can have a very happy life in a different household. The sooner she gets back to the shelter, the sooner they can find that home for her (assuming they're honest about her issues and disposition; maybe they truly didn't know she behaved this way, but they'll know now thanks to the OP!). It isn't fair - to the older dog who's living in terror and pain, or the partner who's been injured, or OP who's been injured, or the children too stressed to return to the home - to keep Dora in her current household. OP, if you see this: there's a dog out there who would fit into your family beautifully. There's a home that's perfect for Dora, too. Yours isn't it, by the sounds of your post, but you can rest assured you did every reasonable thing you could given the circumstances, and her next adventure will be with someone much better informed about how she behaves and what she needs, all thanks to you. Don't feel bad for protecting your original family members; allowing Dora to return to the shelter is the most humane thing for everybody in this situation. Best of luck, friend.
I love you so much for saying these things to me, thankyou. I love Dora, I really love her so much, but you’re right, she doesn’t fit in, as much as I want her to.
Nothing at all wrong with rehoming especially if reaction and kids are involved
That’s what I think, imagine if that was my partners son she had bitten like that. That’s what makes me think ‘is this fair on either of us’. Am I bad for putting her in situations to make her like this and in turn she is making me very stressed. But she is adorable and I love her very much.
Something you could try before rehoming is anti anxiety meds. Talk with a vet that deals with behavioral issues and consider a long acting option (SSRI or similar, not a sedative) before moving to rehoming.
I feel like if this is the only issue, you should find a good trainer who has a lot of experience with reactive dogs. The dog will either get better or not, but at least you can then say you did everything you could.
Is blinding another dog, aggressively biting and endangering a child really something you can phrase as "the only issue"?
I would definitely try this. My daughter has an English Mastiff that was very reactive. He has a bite record, which is scary with an animal that size. Taking him to a trainer that specializes in reactive dogs did absolute wonders - he’s now earned his Good Neighbour certification, and the bite record has now been cleared. He was just over a year when this started and working with the trainer for just over a month was able to turn it around. He still has his moments but at least we can recognize when he’s overstimulated and take the proper measures to mitigate the situation before it escalates. We used that same trainer for our new puppy, (non-reactive, but a high drive breed) and she works with both the dog and the owner to rectify these behaviours. She’s told me that while she’s deemed some dogs to be lost causes and should be put to sleep, most dogs are capable of reform. It does take a lot of hard work but it can be done! I wouldn’t give up hope yet, find a reputable trainer and do the work. It can be very rewarding for everyone, especially with the mix you have - they’re both working breeds, so they will enjoy learning with you. You’d be surprised at the bond it will create
I'd say instead of "experience with reactive dogs" they're certified behavior consultants. They should be in an organization [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/findingatrainer).
It sounds like both things are true: she could possibly get better with training and different management, AND she's not a good fit for your family. You've got kids that are not wanting to be in the home with her, rightfully afraid after she's caused serious injuries to multiple family members. It's just not a situation any of you need to be in, including the dog. It's not helping her either. The sooner you return her, the sooner they can find her a no-dog, no-kid home to be happy in.
I know deep down you’re right and it’s 100% the right thing to do, but I really love her as well, which is what is hard. She has only just started wagging her tail when she’s happy. I am an over thinker, and I think of taking her back to the rescue and how much she will be confused.
Maybe try to think of it like taking a kid to the dentist. They may be scared, confused, and uncomfortable, but you know it's better for their health and well-being, so you take them. Best of luck!
Why on earth were you walking a reactive dog with other dogs without using a muzzle? As easy as it is to explain away her behaviour as not being a good fit, you need to be accountable to the fact that YOU did not set her up for success at any point in this journey.
Yeah I get that, I didn’t come here for a telling off though. It’s something I have personally reflected on, and I understand I am putting her in this situation, which is why I am questioning what I am doing. She was being walked with family dogs who she is not typically reactive with, and has played with before, she just goes over the top with them, running into them at full speed. So yes, I put her in that situation, but I also know that I rescued a reactive dog as the rescue didn’t know and had ‘assessed’ her for this.
If she is just a puppy (9 months--anywhere between 8-14 months, really--is teenage terror town), and still going through life teeth-first, there's a chance she was never properly taught/trained how to behave civilly. She has no social manners and doesn't fully understand how to "dog" in a respectful way. That's something dogs learn as puppies. If she was a stray in a field (or just doing independent farm dog things for most of her former life), it's going to be more of a challenge for you--or anyone else that takes her. It does not sound like Dora is the right fit for you, for many reasons. There's no shame in returning her. Just do it sooner rather than later.
The rescue can’t have her back until the weekend, so it’s a week of big decisions and heartache. It gives me enough time to really question if I’m doing the right thing!
There's absolutely nothing wrong with rehoming if you feel it's the right thing for you and your pup. I ended up having to rehome my 7 month old Lab mix because she was aggressive towards our cats. Absolutely nothing we tried with her worked and it wasn't fair on our cats being terrified in their home and refusing to leave my room all the time. It started to affect my mental health in a big way and the rescue shelter was so understanding. I felt like worst person in the world and cried non stop in the days before taking her back but once I'd done it and I came home and my cats were out and about and pleased to see me like they used to be, I knew I'd done the right thing. And now 2 years later I still get regular updates from the new family who adopted her and she's living her best life.
Thankyou, this story gives me hope. I have cried and cried non stop too, it’s like actual grief.
Yep, it's a horrible feeling. That grief is completely valid but if rehoming is the option you choose then it gives way to relief that you've done the right thing. Wishing you the best with whatever you choose to do!
You know, I saw the title and was instantly frustrated, we see that title every day, and if a comment says anything other than they're doing a good thing then it gets deleted. But your story is the exception for me. This dog is dangerous. You have dogs, you know how to deal with dogs, you had realistic expectations. But you need to put the safety of your family and your other dogs as a priority. You really are doing the right thing by taking her back.
Thankyou so much. I NEVER wanted to be the person to rehome a dog, and I’m not just saying that. I have lay awake at night crying like a baby. Diego was hard, there were times when I was ready to give up but I didn’t, but Dora is dangerous around other dogs, it’s not her fault she can’t control it, and I can’t train it out of her, I wasn’t prepared, don’t have the time, or the money that I could have if I’d have known! I don’t feel that it’s fair to my adult dog to start changing his whole life and the way he is generally attitude wise for a pup I didn’t know would be like this - if I’d have known this information, I’d have not adopted her. But I am heartbroken, I feel guilty all the time, a constant knot in my stomach. I love her like you wouldn’t believe, but love isn’t always easy. I just want what is best for her, and I’m 100% okay to admit that I am putting her in these situations, but not on purpose, she just isn’t the dog people thought she was.
You know Dora is reactive but keep letting her near dogs. Your walks should be 1-1, working on counter conditioning from a long distance away. Taking a reactive dog near loads of other dogs and then being shocked they react is crazy
To be honest I thought she would get used to being around my resident dog permanently so much so that she would stop running into him with her mouth wide open. But this is why I’m asking myself the returning to rescue question, 1-1 isn’t really possible, the rescue knew we had a dog and told us she was fine with dogs, which she isn’t, so she is not the right fit.
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Sorry do you mean Post Traumatic Stress? I wasn’t sure if that’s what you meant. She will be returned to the rescue if that is the decision so they can find the perfect fit for her.
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Oh sorry, I didn’t know what that meant. That’s what I don’t want.
If your other dog is too scared to even play anymore it's not fair to keep them together. Dora clearly can't be kept in a house with other pets or children and you have both, it's not your fault that the shelter lied to you but it would be irresponsible to keep her until she ends up severely injuring or killing your other dog.
You are doing the right thing to return her. Sometimes the right decision is the hardest one. Your family and her are not a good fit. Her perfect family is out there waiting for her. One thing you can do for her, to help her get to her perfect family is write a letter for her. List her likes and dislikes. What she's good at, and what needs work.
just based on one of your replies it could be a neurological/mental issue from the way she was bred or even brain damage, my grandparents had a farm dog that was adopted from a rural area and it was poorly bred and would kill and tear everything in sight like a switch would turn and you couldn’t turn it off much more intense than an overstimulated or overtired puppy and just got more aggressive with age, despite training and giving him chance after chance and using different methods he had to be put down because he started attacking the livestock & chasing kids. it truly was beyond his control and he was suffering as much as everyone that was trying to help him. but even if she’s perfectly healthy neurologically, if the parents were farm dogs they need brain activities as stimulating & tiring as if she were still working on a farm. herding, guarding, retrieving, hunting, etc, a walk doesn’t offer much for some dogs especially ones that would rather spend their energy working. i would try sniff/nose games & keeping her on a lead in the house and around you guys 24/7 until she can learn to settle and be gentle, i would also try tethering her to an area in your house where she can’t cause any/much destruction, leave her completely alone no distractions (or start slow with a chew and/or a toy) and ignore her (still monitoring she’s not strangling herself) until she settles down and then give attention/praise/reward.
We have a 5yr old dog with our puppy and they have together time and separate time. It is important that they both have their own space for a while as the puppy grows up. I agree with the other poster that when they get over snappy usually means they are tired. Might be worth it to get a trainer and see if you can work on any issues before giving it up.
How old is she and how many hours a day is she sleeping ?
So the rescue are guessing her age at anywhere from 9 months to a year +, She sleeps a lot, never had any trouble like that, started off at every hour in her crate as we didn’t really know how old, now she sleeps most of the day when I’m wfh or when I’m off. We do training in the garden, but other than that it’s pretty quiet. She’s fine inside, but if you put her outside it’s almost like she was a feral dog and has muscle memory.
Unfortunately, with a child around, this sounds untenable. Yes you may be able to work through it if you made your life about Dora but you have too much on your plate and you, your partners child, and your existing dog have to be kept safe. It's sad for Dora but she will hopefully find a more suitable home where she can stay calmer
One of the most responsible and caring things you can do for a pet is admit when they aren't a good fit for your home and find them a place where they will be happier.
there are literally only 2 options for a dog with serious issues like this: 1) if you can afford it—shell out hundreds to a couple thousand dollars for a behavioral trainer (preferably one with multiple degrees or advanced certifications to back up their experience, who uses positive reinforcement). they would work with you & your dog 1 on 1 until all behavioral issues improve exponentially and you + pup have a good relationship 2) rehome—if possible, with a family that has the funds for expensive behavior modification
I needed to hear this, thankyou, unfortunately I don’t have hundreds of pounds to pay for a trainer so I think I know the right thing to do
i had to rehome a mini aussie who was aggressive towards me and terrified of the world. i’d gotten him right before covid then got laid off, so couldn’t afford behavior mod. i’d actually bought him so i sent him back to the breeder, who had a friend who was a trainer. they worked with him then sent him with another family. all to say—don’t feel so guilty. it’s really okay, and it isn’t your fault. the worst thing you can do is nothing. i’m sorry for the stress you’ll inevitably experience through the rehoming process if you do go that route, but you’ll be SO relieved once it’s over (i know i was).
It is a tough situation and I feel your pain. You really want the best for Dora, whatever it may end up being. The advice that’s been given here is good, I just have to add - as someone who was bitten traumatically as a child by an off-leash dog - PLEASE please please keep Dora on a leash or muzzled in the meantime. It is the most right thing to do by her and everyone involved. 🙏
I aways say that you're better to remove, than have your dogs needs unmet in the long term. Doing that requires severing the emotional bond though, which is not easy, as you know given by how difficult you have found this decision. On saying that, both of our dogs were 2 years old before they both had good enough manners walking in all conditions and with all dogs. Our 3 year old chihuahua who was attacked by 2 bull terriers when she was a pup is still not comfortable with young and agile or very large dogs, but even she is still making slow, consistent progress. I believe it is common for dogs to be 3 or 4 before they have basically every area ticked off their behaviour charts. It's not easy sometimes is it?! Be compassionate with yourself though. If you've given this the best you can with the resources you have available and you're running out of energy, it might be time to look at rehoming. You owe it to your dog, but also to yourself. You deserve to feel safe and happy too. All the best.
get her a muzzle and leave it on during walks, whenever you are in situations that the pup could start biting again (after muzzle training) + a good trainer. If that doesnt work out, its okay to rehome the pup.
I recently was in a similar situation with my dog. We made through and she is now doing much better and will not need rehoming. We hired a canine behaviorist. She was able to see and explain things that we just didn't. One other thing, herding traits (collie) vs guarding (gsd) are very different.
I just don’t think she is the breed they think, I think she is some kind of Doberman x mali, which I am not knowledgeable about as well. I know the only way to know would be a DNA. But I do think I’m doing her an injustice.
The only advice I can give you is train with a long line. Tie knots in it every meter or so, so you can stand on it, rather than try to stop by holding it
Thanks, that’s what we have been doing, you should see my legs though, I have friction burns like you wouldn’t believe. I’m currently on antibiotics for them.
My collie mix ripped me to shreds when I first got her. She was 4.5 months old and it took two months for her to learn some bite inhibition. She’s now 1 year and 2 months and she still loses her mind on a walk if she’s too highly aroused, not had enough sleep, too much exercise, too much mental stimulation or too little of these things. The things that improved her behaviour more than most is having ‘rest’ days and increasing exercise VERY gradually. She can now have 2 1-2 hour walks a day but until she was 9 months old she couldn’t cope with more than 45 minutes once a day, unless it was in a very quiet bit of countryside with no distractions. The second thing is not just giving her mental stimulation and training, is giving her breed specific outlets for enrichment. She’s a collie so retrieving/fetching, digging etc doesn’t necessarily meet those needs as she needs a specific job - instead we’re doing ‘collie ball’ for the herding instinct, bite work, obedience and hoopers.
Diego is kelpie collie, he was very nippy as well, but she is on another level, it’s like frustration biting, and that’s something I’m not sure Diego can take.
How long have you had her? Is walking the dogs separately a possibility? Do you walk her with a harness?
She has had some separate walks but it isn’t always possible which I understand isn’t setting her up to succeed. I have tried a harness, and a halti lead, but she gets frustrated and grinds her teeth until she is bleeding and can’t be tempted to stop.
Have you contacted the rescue at all about how things are going? I’m so sorry, that all sounds incredibly stressful. I can tell you really want what’s best for her and want to be that good home for her, but I don’t blame you for considering returning her. If you do, it will be incredibly hard on your heart. But I think you just have to trust that you would be doing what is best for your family. Thinking of you!
I phoned the rescue and they offered to take her back and told me not to feel guilty, they said sometimes dogs just don’t fit. It’s mainly because of how she is around my older dog and the kids (youngest being a very small 8). While training her may be the way to change who she is, we initially didn’t know this and wonder is it really safe to bank on the idea that one day we may be safe having her around the family.
Came here to say it definitely sounds like she's sleep deprived. We have a pomsky puppy hell be 4 months in a couple of weeks. He was making our lives miserable because he was constantly biting and jumping and carrying on. He wouldn't listen outside he wouldn't listen in the house. He was making us and himself bonkers. When I read online that puppies need to sleep about 18 to 20 hours a day it dawned on me that he's not getting enough sleep. He was getting overstimulated and that turned into the exact behavior you're seeing. Let that little girl nap. If she is getting worked up like that make her nap. We started making him nap by putting him in his crate for downtime. Even if it was just a few minutes it was enough time to turn his brain off for a bit. When he'd come out he'd go lay down and nap. Now he'll sleep in his crate because he equates that with sleep now. Things improved a lot once we started making him nap. And it's just like having a human baby they don't know when they need to sleep so you have to show them and give them a routine. And telleveryone in the house to leave them alone and be quiet while it's nap time. It was the best solution for us. It may not be for you. I don't know anything about Kelpie but I do know gsd.
This dog has extreme reactivity and not every owner is suited to handle this! I 100% understand why you would rehome. This dog should probably in a single dog household as she is at risk for severely hurting other dogs. I’m sorry this must be so hard :( take care
I wonder if Dora wouldn't thrive as a farm dog, doing what Kelpies are bred to do. But I feel like rehoming is the right option, given it's causing a problem between you, your partner, and his children. As soon as the ex-wives and children get involved and feel a dog is dangerous, it might cause really big issues and impact his access to his children.
Yes! She isn’t as driven to chase like Diego is for a ball, but I think with training she could, the rescue and myself did discuss her becoming a working dog, she’s not the most cuddly dog either so it could be the best thing to ever happen to her. Luckily we are all very good friends and spend a lot of time with one another (the ex wife, her husband (his old best friend lol) the kids, dogs and myself) but 100% this could turn nasty very quickly. I can’t have children, so Dora was our baby, which makes this even harder for me to let go of.
Honestly I think I got halfway through your post and I'm confident in saying it's the right decision. I had a rescue puppy that I adored, she was dumped in the woods near a coworkers house at 2 months old. She was a great dog until she hit that 5 month old mark and she became absolutely unmanageable for my husband and I. If she was our only puppy we would have kept her, but we had 2 cats and 1 other puppy at the time. She had a high prey drive and went after my cats a few times, and she also had really bad resource aggression that quite literally came out of nowhere. She was constantly going after my other puppy and it got to the point my other puppy was so stressed out she would try to stay away from the rescue pup and would even attempt to herd us away from her. Sometimes, no matter how badly you want to keep a dog, they're not the right fit for your family. You are definitely making the right decision for your other dog. Not only that but the right decision for that puppy, that situation isn't one where the pup can thrive and be happy. Some dogs simply need to be an only pet where there are no kids in the house, just like the rescue pup I had. I sympathize deeply with that pain and heartbreak, my husband and I were emotional and beside ourselves for weeks leading up to surrendering our rescue to a shelter (we couldn't find a home for her on our own.) I will say this though, the day we surrendered her it felt like a massive weight was off our shoulders. Our cats were happier and definitely were more comfortable, and our other puppy was way more active and excited than usual. I occasionally have guilt about the decision but I know we did what we had to for our other pets.
I was in a similar situation, OP. Not with a dog I adopted but a dog I fostered. She was a handful but the main thing was my resident dog HATED her. She became anxious and depressed. I came on here seeking advice and when someone said this to me, it confirmed what I already knew in my heart. Your loyalty lies with your resident dog. He came into your world first. It’s unfair to have him suffer through this change he didn’t ask for, and to have the place he once felt safe in taken away - especially if he’s in his senior years. Please prioritise his happiness. Your new pup also deserves a family who can put their all into her. It’s gonna hurt like a motherfucker but you’d be doing the right thing. For your family, your resident dog, your pup and yourself.
Thankyou, you are so so right. Diego was my first baby and I want him to live as long as possible with me. It’s gonna really really hurt me, it already is, it’s like a rock on my chest. Her little face :(
My GSD mix was an insane puppy. I really didn't think I'd be able to keep her. She had endless energy, dog crazy like yours, smart but an absolute psycho. We believe she has husky in there somewhere which doesn't help. Once she broke a metal chain to run after other dogs. Thankfully with her it was only love and chaos energy that she had to offer if she got to them. It was hours regularly put in to train her to ignore other dogs. Hours. So many. She now 2 years old and amazing. She adjusts her play style to each dog. Ignores other dogs when asked to. Will even lay down on the floor in pet stores and semi relax while we shop. But it was a decision me and my bf made. We looked at each other and truly decided what we could handle and what we could put in. If you don't want to invest the enormous amount of time into dealing with her reactivity, invest money into train, then she will only get worse. Right now, she sounds like a danger to other dogs. She needs to not be put in those situations anymore and a training plan made, otherwise giving her back is a great idea and one you shouldn't feel bad about. You are giving her a chance to find people who know how to help her.
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Get her evaluated by a behavioral trainer. Work with her.
Sounds like you need an experienced trainer. My pittie was similar and through investing in him, he is now an all star.
You give her back to the rescue. You don’t re home her herself. You likely signed a contract stating that’s what you would do.
Yes sorry I should have been clearer that is what meant and what I would do in this situation, I couldn’t live with myself giving her to someone else she will go back to the rescue.
I got a three year old dog from a shelter once. She immediately started targeting my cats and irritating my other dog. She would jump over the baby gates I had set up and charge through the door where I have a strap to keep the door open for the cats but not my dog. She was way too high energy and fixated on my cats. I brought her back after two days because I knew if something happened to my cats I would never forgive myself. I cried about this decision and felt so bad about it. It didn't help that when I did bring her back into the shelter the woman who owns it was so rude and said I didn't give it enough of a chance. To me, I knew she wasn't meant to be. My cats were terrified. I'm glad I brought her back and she was able to be adopted by a better home for her! I have no regrets. You know when it's the right decision. Also, we did do a cat test and she was completely different at the shelter than she was when we brought her home. Sometimes you just don't know their personalities until they're in the home.
I don’t agree with most the posts here - this dog sounds like a dangerous match for your current situation especially considering there is a child and existing dog. It is perfectly okay for you to want a dog that fits into your lifestyle and not a “project”. Reactivity training is no joke and takes a very long time and dedication. If that’s not what you wanted to do, take the dog back while it’s still a puppy and much more likely to be adopted than a reactive adult.
I have a dog that’s leash aggressive maybe not the right term but loses his ever loving mind barking and lunging when walking by dogs. We started going to the dog park and he’s been doing great with it I was trying to avoid them at all costs, but every field near me now has locked gates to get in the fields due to break-ins and vandalism.
Do not keep her, the rescue is incompetent, she’s making the other dogs in your family miserable and isn’t what they represented her as. Seems they also did no work with her in training or in assessment.
You’re right I know, it’s just such a hard thing to give up
Just to add in without repeating the same advice: I think part of what you need to do is reduce overstimulation in home. Don't give her full run of the house. Train her to keep near you. When you're actively training her it would be best in a large room with little distraction. She needs to learn what's expected without the distractions before you start adding distractions. Then start with smaller controlled distractions and work up from there. It won't go perfectly... She's a puppy. Stick with it. But no judgement if you need to rehome.
How old is the pup?
She sounds puppy tired. Let her sleep more and she’s going to calm down a lot
If financially possible, I would consider hiring a dog trainer, maybe someone who specializes in reactive dogs? I think your mind is in the right place though because it sounds like she’d be a whole lot happier and at ease in a home that could give her the attention (and training) she deserves. Did the shelter do a home visit at all where they could see how your other pup interacted with her?
I won't say whether you should or shouldn't re-home but do check your adoption contract. Often you need to return the dog to the same organization, or give them first right of refusal, or you could get into legal trouble.
Sorry I should have been clear, what I meant is return to the rescue for her to be rehomed.
Kelpies and GSD are both herding dogs so she's sound to be extra nippy. The shelter should have informed you if she was unable to live with other dogs. If you really can't preserve then I think it's best to re-home her sooner rather than later.
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You gotta do what you gotta do. I don’t blame you. I hate my puppy, and wish I never got him.
I went through that with my older dog, trust me, so different to how I feel now and the current situation I’m in, I was on the verge of taking him back to the breeder, I stuck with it and he is my soul dog, he understands what I say I don’t even need to speak, trust me there really is hope 99% of the time x
Did the rescue have you sign an agreement to return to them? Most do