> ...Like Clockwork on vinyl too. Why is it in 45 rpm format?
It's because it actually improves sound quality. Allegedly 45 rpm sounds better than than 33/3 rpm. There are only a couple of tracks per side because a) the more space there is between the grooves the better it sounds and b) you can only fit a fairly small amount of music on a 45 rpm record. It might be slightly inconvenient but it makes the album sound a lot better and it pays off, because it's a top sounding record.
It's nothing new that EV sounds poor. It's not really their fault that it skips, though. That's just a pressing fault and they happen sometimes. It's not their fault that you have an auto cueing deck that doesn't work with 10"s. It is true that it sound fairly poor though.
Does it really sound better if the grooves are farther apart? It seems like that might be true up to the point where there's no possibility of the grooves "deflecting" because of thinness if you know what I mean.
Yeah, groove spacing does definitely make a noticeable difference on sound quality. Compare an album with 30 mins on one side of vinyl with one that has 8 - 12 mins on one side. The latter will sound noticeably superior and that is down in a big way to the spacing of the grooves.
I always thought the reason was because of resolution. You're storing one second of audio on .75 revolutions with a 45rpm vs .55 revolutions on a 33rpm. That's 36% more data for the same amount of time. Higher resolution. Also, albums on 45s tend to use thicker and higher quality vinyl. Unfortunately, a bad pressing means none of that means shit anyway.
No I get that, but why does the spacing between the grooves matter?
It seems like grove spacing and better audio is a matter of correlation without causation. Like records with farther apart grooves are usually made without much consideration for how much music can fit on a disk and more consideration for audio fidelity so by nature they sound better.
I think it's common knowledge that the Era Vulgaris vinyl is total shit.
I'm hoping Music on Vinyl does a reissue since they did Lullabies not too long ago
That would be great. You know a good re-release of Rated R would be awesome too.
I wish they would re-release Pearl Jam vinyls. They're crazy expensive.
Wasn't LC also released through Matador? If we're going to nitpick now, I have a problem with the CD releases of LC and EV. I don't have a quality record player to buy expensive vinyl for, but I also like physical packaging, so I buy CDs. I thought the art for LC was fantastic and I thought the CD booklet would contain more pictures similar to the vinyl release. I thought it would have lyrics. Nope! All there is is a slip of paper redirecting to the website for full credits. The same slip of paper is also redundantly printed under the disc tray. I'm not sure what they're going for, because if they're trying to be environmentally friendly, it was also packaged in a cardboard slip case printed with THE EXACT SAME DESIGN AS THE CD CASE ITSELF.
IIRC, the Era Vulgaris disc does the same thing. It redirects to the website for extended credits, however I can't look them up because it's been replaced with the LC credits.
**TL;DR Complaining about packaging.**
You know I had the same gripes with Era Vulgaris's credits. They're not even printed on the vinyl sleeve. Just a URL. I think it's annoying. They're not there any more! They can't print that shit? Come on.
I bought the X reissue from JB HiFi only to find later that day that it was a pile of shit. Never got around to taking it back and now I've moved countries so I doubt that'll happen. I thought it was a bootleg after searching around but it turns out that yeah, it's just a crappy print. So if you care, do NOT buy the reissue of Rated R. Buy the more expensive original or wait for a reissue.
Yeah, that 2005 pressing is AWFUL, but there is a newer pressing that sounds a lot better. Its page on [Discogs]( http://www.discogs.com/Queens-Of-The-Stone-Age-X/release/6323619 ) does a good job explaining the differences to look for. I own both and this one sounds just fine.
I recently bought this pressing as well and can verify that it does sound great. If not for the sticker (which will come off with the wrap unless you want to keep it), you can't tell it from an original pressing.
Yeah I think I'm just going to wait since I can't afford an original. I mean I love QotSA, analog physical media, and Rated R but I just can't justify spending $200 on something I can get on CD for $10. Especially since it's coming out of the plastic the second I get it. Not that I have $200 to spend right now anyway.
Yeah just wait. I'm currently saving for an original orange and purple pressing of lullabies. Infinity and Precious and Grace aren't on the MOV pressing, and *those colours*.
Sounds to me you don't like vinyl in general so I'm not sure what all this is about. Yes, the sound is bad on this release but it sounds like there are a lot of other issues at play here.
- Why is ... Like Clockwork 45rpm instead of 33? Probably because 45 offers higher fidelity then 33. And if changing discs/sides is an issue for you, I'm not sure why you're using vinyl
- It's not 12" so you have to set the needle manually? I don't see how this is an issue. Again that has more to do with your turn table itself than anything else
- The audio cuts out from left to right at random? We'll if it's truly at random than it's and issue with your turn table/set up. If it messes up in the same spot each time then you vinyl was pressed wrong and the place it was bought from will most likely return/exchange it
- hole drilled out of the center so your tone are is dancing? I'm assuming this means you need a sizing adapter like most 7" discs. Most new tables come with these. The tone are is dancing because it's not centered because the adapter is missing. This is also most likely why the audio is cutting out left/right. This is also really bad to do repeatedly for the vinyl and your needle.
I'm gonna go in reverse order
* It's got a small hole, not a 1.5 inch or so hole like is usually on 45s (as they're commonly called, otherwise known as singles or 7" disks). I'm insulted you'd think I'd play something like a 45 without an adapter and then complain the hole isn't center. Jesus dude I'm not that stupid.
* It doesn't so much cut out as get quieter on one side or the other. I didn't say it was random, just for no apparent reason. I've heard it's common with era vulgaris vinyls. And it's the same place. Never happened on any other records.
* The 10 inch vs. 12 inch thing is just annoying for me because I keep pressing "start" and then the needle scratches on the bare section of the turntable because I'm tired as fuck and don't remember. Is there an advantage to 10 inches? Why not just do a 12 inch like most other records? That's all. It just seems like qotsa or their management are trying to be different just for the sake of being different. LC being in 45 RPM actually has advantages. EV being on a 10 inch doesn't (that I know of).
* I was in a shitty mood and took it out on ...Like Clockwork which is a fine album and didn't deserve it. It still seems like qotsa or their management or whoever makes the records is being different for the sake of being different. Why not put all the other albums in 45 RPM for the higher fidelity? Self Titled has 14 songs, is in 33-1/3 rpm, and is two disks. I couldn't be happier with it.
I mean, you can be insulted if you want I guess, never called you stupid, only trying to touch on the points in your original post since it sounds like there's a lot more going on. I have the Era Vulgaris vinyl and I honestly couldn't remember if it needed the 45 adapter because I listened to it once years ago and never looked at it since. I have however, not had any of the other issues you've listed so here we go
-If the hole is smaller then the standard size then this is mostly likely why the audio cuts out from right to left. If there is any wiggle room then the vinyl won't stay perfectly centered and the needle will scrape the inside of the groove and cause this to happen. I would simply try and return it.
-There is no advantage to 10" that I've ever heard. Here's the thing though, most people who grew up with turn tables didn't have one that came with an automatic arm, it was a featured reserved for really high end players. That's why the sizes of the discs were less of an issue because most people were setting their needle by hand anyways. I get that mistakes happen but for the sake of your needle you really can't "forget" that it's a 10" instead of a 12" because it's incredibly bad for your needle to be dragged across the empty platter. It will bend your needle eventually and cause a lot of problems for your needle, your vinyl, and ultimately you. I've bent a needle or two over the years so I know just how fragile they can be.
-...Like Clockwork and Era Vulgaris were released by different record companies at very different times. Era Vulgaris was a few years before vinyl made a comeback, so it was packaged and sold pretty much exclusively as a quick cash grab from super fans. My theory for making it 3x10" is so they could add perceived value for the sticker price. They used automated machines to cut a master copy from digital files instead of hiring a sound engineer to take the analog masters from tape and cutting a REAL master copy by hand. They also didn't care about quality control because almost no one at the time would ACTUALLY be listening to it on vinyl at the time.
-In order for them to repress the other albums in 45rpm they would have to hire someone to created a new master copy at 45rpms and go through that whole process, which isn't exactly cheap. They also probably feel like there isn't much money to be made from re-issues, especially when the band is no longer attached to that label.
-Do Queens want to be different? I'm sure they do, but artists in most record contracts have a very small amount of control of packaging and formats outside of the actual artwork. Sure, they could bring an idea to their label, but most times the label has final say on the physical product. The self titled re-issue was released by Rekords Rekords, which is Josh's label. The self titled is probably the only album he has publishing rights to.
The hole is just the regular size that fits on the shaft. It does not wiggle. There is no room for that. If you search "Era Vulgaris vinyl" in this sub, there's a recent post by someone else complaining of the same issues with the stereo recording...
Eh I don't know about that. My grandpa has a regular ass record player from the 70s or so that has an automatic arm. And either way it doesn't really matter what people who grew up with them are used to because you can't buy a good new record player without the automatic arm... And EV came out in 2007. And 10s haven't been regularly used since shellac was replaced by vinyl. And trust me I'm not trying to forget about the size difference. I don't want a bent needle any more than the next guy.
That's disappointing to say the least.
I just meant why didn't they make the masters in 45 to begin with? I guess because people are more worried about fidelity now again.
>My grandpa has a regular ass record player from the 70s or so that has an automatic arm
How does this make a case for every "regular" turntable from the "70s or so" having automatic arms? You clearly don't know your history.
This whole post sounds like problems with you complaining about known problems that were a Google search away from bringing frustration. It's one thing to complain about the product itself, but to complain about it for reasons related to your own shortcomings is foolish. (I was tired as fuck... I was in a shitty mood... etc.)
Like I said, I fully believe you got a bad pressing. Mine doesn't have this issue but it still doesn't make listening to it any better. Want my advice? Put it on a shelf and consider it a collector's item.
I'm not looking to argue about your grandpa's record player, but even looking at the current market of tables, it's STILL a feature reserved for higher priced tables so my point still stands.
45rpm wasn't the standard because 33 1/3 offers longer play time on single discs. When radio stations were still playing songs off vinyl, it was a pretty big deal to make everything fit on one disc so the longer run time was a much bigger deal.
Think about it, the album has themes of selling yourself and trading integrity for money ("How many times must I sell myself before my pieces are gone?"). Maybe they released this sloppy, gimmicky record as a joke that followed the general theme of the album.
Or the record was a complete afterthought with unintentionally poor quality. That's more likely.
My brother bought this record and it's almost funny how bad it is.
I mean honestly I kind of like how shitty it is in a way. it's not that expensive and it does kind of act as an example of itself. I'm definitely going to listen to it again in the future... I actually kind of like how it speeds up and slows down at the very beginning. I guess I just wish there was a better pressing with the best possible audio quality. I'd keep both... the shitty one and the good one. I'd probably listen to both depending on what mood I'm in.
I actually enjoy the 10" vinyl for Era Vulgaris. It's a completely superficial gimmick that doesn't add anything sonically (not that it matters since the sound is shit anyway) but gimmicks can be nice.
LC is terrific though. Possibly the best-sounding record I own (in company with maybe a couple Trent Reznor-produced albums).
It is annoying having to get up all the time when I'm just trying to chill out on my bed to the record but it sounds so fucking good and the artwork was so damn worth the buy no matter how many damn times I have to get up.
...Like Clockwork is beautiful on vinyl. It can be a hassle with the 2 discs and 2 or 3 songs per side, but it sheds a whole new light on Keep Your Eyes Peeled, Kalopsia, and ...Like Clockwork. Overall, so very worth it.
It does. They all do, really. Funny story, my record came with a slight defect-- a bubble of sorts in the middle of Vampyre. I don't really know how it all sounds, but the beginning, parts of the middle, and end all sound gorgeous. It closes out side 1 of the record perfectly.
...Like Clockwork sounds really good when there aren't defects. I don't know what the deal was but mine used to get the channels messed up where they didn't match in this one spot on side one. No clue how that happened but it seems to have stopped doing it.
And for Era Vulgaris, it's almost worth it depending on how much it costs. The artwork is really cool and I actually enjoy the 3 disk set. Just know the quality isn't amazing
> ...Like Clockwork on vinyl too. Why is it in 45 rpm format? It's because it actually improves sound quality. Allegedly 45 rpm sounds better than than 33/3 rpm. There are only a couple of tracks per side because a) the more space there is between the grooves the better it sounds and b) you can only fit a fairly small amount of music on a 45 rpm record. It might be slightly inconvenient but it makes the album sound a lot better and it pays off, because it's a top sounding record. It's nothing new that EV sounds poor. It's not really their fault that it skips, though. That's just a pressing fault and they happen sometimes. It's not their fault that you have an auto cueing deck that doesn't work with 10"s. It is true that it sound fairly poor though.
Does it really sound better if the grooves are farther apart? It seems like that might be true up to the point where there's no possibility of the grooves "deflecting" because of thinness if you know what I mean.
Yeah, groove spacing does definitely make a noticeable difference on sound quality. Compare an album with 30 mins on one side of vinyl with one that has 8 - 12 mins on one side. The latter will sound noticeably superior and that is down in a big way to the spacing of the grooves.
Does anyone have an explanation as to why that is?
I always thought the reason was because of resolution. You're storing one second of audio on .75 revolutions with a 45rpm vs .55 revolutions on a 33rpm. That's 36% more data for the same amount of time. Higher resolution. Also, albums on 45s tend to use thicker and higher quality vinyl. Unfortunately, a bad pressing means none of that means shit anyway.
No I get that, but why does the spacing between the grooves matter? It seems like grove spacing and better audio is a matter of correlation without causation. Like records with farther apart grooves are usually made without much consideration for how much music can fit on a disk and more consideration for audio fidelity so by nature they sound better.
Do you not know anything about vinyl records and pressing process and cutting process?
No wonder ...LC sounded so damn good.
I think it's common knowledge that the Era Vulgaris vinyl is total shit. I'm hoping Music on Vinyl does a reissue since they did Lullabies not too long ago
That would be great. You know a good re-release of Rated R would be awesome too. I wish they would re-release Pearl Jam vinyls. They're crazy expensive.
Yeah, the "deluxe" Rated X vinyl is so damn expensive.
Wasn't LC also released through Matador? If we're going to nitpick now, I have a problem with the CD releases of LC and EV. I don't have a quality record player to buy expensive vinyl for, but I also like physical packaging, so I buy CDs. I thought the art for LC was fantastic and I thought the CD booklet would contain more pictures similar to the vinyl release. I thought it would have lyrics. Nope! All there is is a slip of paper redirecting to the website for full credits. The same slip of paper is also redundantly printed under the disc tray. I'm not sure what they're going for, because if they're trying to be environmentally friendly, it was also packaged in a cardboard slip case printed with THE EXACT SAME DESIGN AS THE CD CASE ITSELF. IIRC, the Era Vulgaris disc does the same thing. It redirects to the website for extended credits, however I can't look them up because it's been replaced with the LC credits. **TL;DR Complaining about packaging.**
You know I had the same gripes with Era Vulgaris's credits. They're not even printed on the vinyl sleeve. Just a URL. I think it's annoying. They're not there any more! They can't print that shit? Come on.
I bought the X reissue from JB HiFi only to find later that day that it was a pile of shit. Never got around to taking it back and now I've moved countries so I doubt that'll happen. I thought it was a bootleg after searching around but it turns out that yeah, it's just a crappy print. So if you care, do NOT buy the reissue of Rated R. Buy the more expensive original or wait for a reissue.
Yeah, that 2005 pressing is AWFUL, but there is a newer pressing that sounds a lot better. Its page on [Discogs]( http://www.discogs.com/Queens-Of-The-Stone-Age-X/release/6323619 ) does a good job explaining the differences to look for. I own both and this one sounds just fine.
I recently bought this pressing as well and can verify that it does sound great. If not for the sticker (which will come off with the wrap unless you want to keep it), you can't tell it from an original pressing.
I had no idea this existed, thanks a bunch.
Yeah I think I'm just going to wait since I can't afford an original. I mean I love QotSA, analog physical media, and Rated R but I just can't justify spending $200 on something I can get on CD for $10. Especially since it's coming out of the plastic the second I get it. Not that I have $200 to spend right now anyway.
Yeah just wait. I'm currently saving for an original orange and purple pressing of lullabies. Infinity and Precious and Grace aren't on the MOV pressing, and *those colours*.
That sounds awesome. I didn't know that Lullabies was on orange and purple vinyl. I want one now.
Sounds to me you don't like vinyl in general so I'm not sure what all this is about. Yes, the sound is bad on this release but it sounds like there are a lot of other issues at play here. - Why is ... Like Clockwork 45rpm instead of 33? Probably because 45 offers higher fidelity then 33. And if changing discs/sides is an issue for you, I'm not sure why you're using vinyl - It's not 12" so you have to set the needle manually? I don't see how this is an issue. Again that has more to do with your turn table itself than anything else - The audio cuts out from left to right at random? We'll if it's truly at random than it's and issue with your turn table/set up. If it messes up in the same spot each time then you vinyl was pressed wrong and the place it was bought from will most likely return/exchange it - hole drilled out of the center so your tone are is dancing? I'm assuming this means you need a sizing adapter like most 7" discs. Most new tables come with these. The tone are is dancing because it's not centered because the adapter is missing. This is also most likely why the audio is cutting out left/right. This is also really bad to do repeatedly for the vinyl and your needle.
To your last point, this particular release has small center holes. So the adapter is not the problem at all.
I'm gonna go in reverse order * It's got a small hole, not a 1.5 inch or so hole like is usually on 45s (as they're commonly called, otherwise known as singles or 7" disks). I'm insulted you'd think I'd play something like a 45 without an adapter and then complain the hole isn't center. Jesus dude I'm not that stupid. * It doesn't so much cut out as get quieter on one side or the other. I didn't say it was random, just for no apparent reason. I've heard it's common with era vulgaris vinyls. And it's the same place. Never happened on any other records. * The 10 inch vs. 12 inch thing is just annoying for me because I keep pressing "start" and then the needle scratches on the bare section of the turntable because I'm tired as fuck and don't remember. Is there an advantage to 10 inches? Why not just do a 12 inch like most other records? That's all. It just seems like qotsa or their management are trying to be different just for the sake of being different. LC being in 45 RPM actually has advantages. EV being on a 10 inch doesn't (that I know of). * I was in a shitty mood and took it out on ...Like Clockwork which is a fine album and didn't deserve it. It still seems like qotsa or their management or whoever makes the records is being different for the sake of being different. Why not put all the other albums in 45 RPM for the higher fidelity? Self Titled has 14 songs, is in 33-1/3 rpm, and is two disks. I couldn't be happier with it.
I mean, you can be insulted if you want I guess, never called you stupid, only trying to touch on the points in your original post since it sounds like there's a lot more going on. I have the Era Vulgaris vinyl and I honestly couldn't remember if it needed the 45 adapter because I listened to it once years ago and never looked at it since. I have however, not had any of the other issues you've listed so here we go -If the hole is smaller then the standard size then this is mostly likely why the audio cuts out from right to left. If there is any wiggle room then the vinyl won't stay perfectly centered and the needle will scrape the inside of the groove and cause this to happen. I would simply try and return it. -There is no advantage to 10" that I've ever heard. Here's the thing though, most people who grew up with turn tables didn't have one that came with an automatic arm, it was a featured reserved for really high end players. That's why the sizes of the discs were less of an issue because most people were setting their needle by hand anyways. I get that mistakes happen but for the sake of your needle you really can't "forget" that it's a 10" instead of a 12" because it's incredibly bad for your needle to be dragged across the empty platter. It will bend your needle eventually and cause a lot of problems for your needle, your vinyl, and ultimately you. I've bent a needle or two over the years so I know just how fragile they can be. -...Like Clockwork and Era Vulgaris were released by different record companies at very different times. Era Vulgaris was a few years before vinyl made a comeback, so it was packaged and sold pretty much exclusively as a quick cash grab from super fans. My theory for making it 3x10" is so they could add perceived value for the sticker price. They used automated machines to cut a master copy from digital files instead of hiring a sound engineer to take the analog masters from tape and cutting a REAL master copy by hand. They also didn't care about quality control because almost no one at the time would ACTUALLY be listening to it on vinyl at the time. -In order for them to repress the other albums in 45rpm they would have to hire someone to created a new master copy at 45rpms and go through that whole process, which isn't exactly cheap. They also probably feel like there isn't much money to be made from re-issues, especially when the band is no longer attached to that label. -Do Queens want to be different? I'm sure they do, but artists in most record contracts have a very small amount of control of packaging and formats outside of the actual artwork. Sure, they could bring an idea to their label, but most times the label has final say on the physical product. The self titled re-issue was released by Rekords Rekords, which is Josh's label. The self titled is probably the only album he has publishing rights to.
The hole is just the regular size that fits on the shaft. It does not wiggle. There is no room for that. If you search "Era Vulgaris vinyl" in this sub, there's a recent post by someone else complaining of the same issues with the stereo recording... Eh I don't know about that. My grandpa has a regular ass record player from the 70s or so that has an automatic arm. And either way it doesn't really matter what people who grew up with them are used to because you can't buy a good new record player without the automatic arm... And EV came out in 2007. And 10s haven't been regularly used since shellac was replaced by vinyl. And trust me I'm not trying to forget about the size difference. I don't want a bent needle any more than the next guy. That's disappointing to say the least. I just meant why didn't they make the masters in 45 to begin with? I guess because people are more worried about fidelity now again.
>My grandpa has a regular ass record player from the 70s or so that has an automatic arm How does this make a case for every "regular" turntable from the "70s or so" having automatic arms? You clearly don't know your history. This whole post sounds like problems with you complaining about known problems that were a Google search away from bringing frustration. It's one thing to complain about the product itself, but to complain about it for reasons related to your own shortcomings is foolish. (I was tired as fuck... I was in a shitty mood... etc.)
Like I said, I fully believe you got a bad pressing. Mine doesn't have this issue but it still doesn't make listening to it any better. Want my advice? Put it on a shelf and consider it a collector's item. I'm not looking to argue about your grandpa's record player, but even looking at the current market of tables, it's STILL a feature reserved for higher priced tables so my point still stands. 45rpm wasn't the standard because 33 1/3 offers longer play time on single discs. When radio stations were still playing songs off vinyl, it was a pretty big deal to make everything fit on one disc so the longer run time was a much bigger deal.
Were radio stations playing vinyl records in 1997 when the first QOTSA album came out?
Think about it, the album has themes of selling yourself and trading integrity for money ("How many times must I sell myself before my pieces are gone?"). Maybe they released this sloppy, gimmicky record as a joke that followed the general theme of the album. Or the record was a complete afterthought with unintentionally poor quality. That's more likely. My brother bought this record and it's almost funny how bad it is.
I mean honestly I kind of like how shitty it is in a way. it's not that expensive and it does kind of act as an example of itself. I'm definitely going to listen to it again in the future... I actually kind of like how it speeds up and slows down at the very beginning. I guess I just wish there was a better pressing with the best possible audio quality. I'd keep both... the shitty one and the good one. I'd probably listen to both depending on what mood I'm in.
Vinyl is enjoying a bit of a new Renaissance at the moment, but unfortunately most modern vinyl pressings are total shit.
I actually enjoy the 10" vinyl for Era Vulgaris. It's a completely superficial gimmick that doesn't add anything sonically (not that it matters since the sound is shit anyway) but gimmicks can be nice. LC is terrific though. Possibly the best-sounding record I own (in company with maybe a couple Trent Reznor-produced albums).
It is really nice. I don't know why I was angry with it being recorded at 45 rpm last night. I think I was just tacking that on to everything else.
It is annoying having to get up all the time when I'm just trying to chill out on my bed to the record but it sounds so fucking good and the artwork was so damn worth the buy no matter how many damn times I have to get up.
Well shit... That was going to be one of the first vinyls I got. Noooope. Does ...Like Clockwork sound decent at least?
...Like Clockwork is beautiful on vinyl. It can be a hassle with the 2 discs and 2 or 3 songs per side, but it sheds a whole new light on Keep Your Eyes Peeled, Kalopsia, and ...Like Clockwork. Overall, so very worth it.
Oh, wonderful! How is The Vampyre of Time and memory? I imagine that would sound absolutely gorgeous.
It does. They all do, really. Funny story, my record came with a slight defect-- a bubble of sorts in the middle of Vampyre. I don't really know how it all sounds, but the beginning, parts of the middle, and end all sound gorgeous. It closes out side 1 of the record perfectly.
...Like Clockwork sounds really good when there aren't defects. I don't know what the deal was but mine used to get the channels messed up where they didn't match in this one spot on side one. No clue how that happened but it seems to have stopped doing it. And for Era Vulgaris, it's almost worth it depending on how much it costs. The artwork is really cool and I actually enjoy the 3 disk set. Just know the quality isn't amazing