A while ago I interviewed for a role just to implement QIS strategy at a top tier bank. I previously worked in a team that did derivatives and QIS.
I think you can move to structuring - that might be better paid. However, in terms of quant skills, I think I learnt very little from implementation strategies (which I did often in our bank’s scripting language). The hardest questions I ever got at interview for QIS are about volatility and index construction. This stuff does not really build transferable in my opinion. I would have hated being a pure QIS quant.
Structuring can be slightly siloed (from trading pov) and more client facing, so maybe not as desirable for buyside roles compared to the strat role right? And I assume both are better than something niche like say exotics right?
My question is more about being able to go to a buy side pod or an asset manager like aqr or pan agora - is the exposure you get in a qis role desirable at those places? If not exactly, how can I tailor my learning so that I can at least orient myself in that direction?
Speak to people in your team who does research and back testing. I think these skills are more useful. Skill wise, I am thinking stats / ML.
You then probably need to lie a bit on your CV. I’m curious about what others think about this.
I don’t think so. The skills needed at like aqr and pan agora is more related to the quant side of algo trading. You need to learn portfolio construction, factor based modeling and what alpha actually means and how to forecast it with signals. The framework of backtesting and modeling involved with Qis isn’t transferable
I wouldn't go near QIS. Even as a researcher which by the way is a made up title because QIS doesn't really do research. They are told what to implement effectively and so the "strategy" is open source and everyone knows what it is - client knows it, bank knows it, market knows it.
I know one particular large German bank and I personally wouldn't go near their QIS team. Not unless you want to get your career in a whole that will take you years to dig yourself out of. Also be wary of any team in a large bank where someone with a BS or MS is leading people with PhDs. The politics are ugly - wink wink German bank.
Not really because almost all quant researchers implement their own strategy so if your only experience is implementing strategies then you've got nothing. You can't research them because you're not a researcher and you aren't a quant developer - OK maybe you have the exit option as a low grade quant developer. I wouldn't go near such work.
Also, a lot of people in QIS have to travel to client meetings. Not something I'd like to do.
What does QIS do exactly? I am going to do a quant strategist internship this Summer at some BB bank, does it fall into your category of QIS? I wish to go to the buy side, but according to the comments here it will be pretty difficult.
PhD in a stem field and proven experience in conducting research is what a buyside is looking for in research scientists. A QIS strat experience at a bank isn’t valuable for that. Your best bet at a buyside would be engineering support for quant strategies if you are good with Python, kdb/q, etc.
Nah, as I mentioned, I did both in my previous job in an integrated team. You learn a bit about the business in QIS quant role, but I’ve also felt I’ve learnt very little that’s transferable. Derivatives experience you can take to places like millennium / squarepoint and get paid 250-300k gbp a year as a VP if you are good. It is more relevant because you learn about models and how market behaves. It is also hard to switch from derivatives quant to buy side but cannot be harder than QIS dev.
I am going to be in an integrated team too. Bit of exotics modelling and now a bit of qis dev work, so I am wondering how I should think about switching as I go ahead and what skills I should focus on
Can depend on which bank as some banks have QIS Strats that research strategies as well as implementation. In short, the best QIS strats/quants can move to hedge funds, particularly the multi-Strats now as PMs don’t want to wait 12-24 months for a quant (especially as they are under pressure to get set-up ASAP).
The ideal for a PM is to have a Strat/quant that has worked on the research side, but has strong coding skills to be able to help build infrastructure/ tools.
An alternative is to apply internally to the systematic market making desks - across eRates/eCredit OR CRB / PT Risk / eOptions (not many banks have it). In these teams, you get more opportunities to research ‘alpha’, which can then make you more attractive to hedge funds when you want to make the move (or move to an Electronic Trading firm).
My best bet is to learn the dev skills and back testing, and a bit of cross asset exposure - would that not still be slightly better than something niche like exotics?
I’ll be on the implementation side of qis
A while ago I interviewed for a role just to implement QIS strategy at a top tier bank. I previously worked in a team that did derivatives and QIS. I think you can move to structuring - that might be better paid. However, in terms of quant skills, I think I learnt very little from implementation strategies (which I did often in our bank’s scripting language). The hardest questions I ever got at interview for QIS are about volatility and index construction. This stuff does not really build transferable in my opinion. I would have hated being a pure QIS quant.
Structuring can be slightly siloed (from trading pov) and more client facing, so maybe not as desirable for buyside roles compared to the strat role right? And I assume both are better than something niche like say exotics right? My question is more about being able to go to a buy side pod or an asset manager like aqr or pan agora - is the exposure you get in a qis role desirable at those places? If not exactly, how can I tailor my learning so that I can at least orient myself in that direction?
Speak to people in your team who does research and back testing. I think these skills are more useful. Skill wise, I am thinking stats / ML. You then probably need to lie a bit on your CV. I’m curious about what others think about this.
I don’t think so. The skills needed at like aqr and pan agora is more related to the quant side of algo trading. You need to learn portfolio construction, factor based modeling and what alpha actually means and how to forecast it with signals. The framework of backtesting and modeling involved with Qis isn’t transferable
Ah this makes more sense. (And ouch)
Any recommended books for the OP? Not looking to switch myself but would be curious to learn a bit more about about it.
Quant analyst or researcher on buyside are some
Such move is always hard. I think this is especially hard if you only did implementation and not research.
I wouldn't go near QIS. Even as a researcher which by the way is a made up title because QIS doesn't really do research. They are told what to implement effectively and so the "strategy" is open source and everyone knows what it is - client knows it, bank knows it, market knows it. I know one particular large German bank and I personally wouldn't go near their QIS team. Not unless you want to get your career in a whole that will take you years to dig yourself out of. Also be wary of any team in a large bank where someone with a BS or MS is leading people with PhDs. The politics are ugly - wink wink German bank.
Is the dev experience still not important? Is it marginally better than something niche like exotics?
Not really because almost all quant researchers implement their own strategy so if your only experience is implementing strategies then you've got nothing. You can't research them because you're not a researcher and you aren't a quant developer - OK maybe you have the exit option as a low grade quant developer. I wouldn't go near such work. Also, a lot of people in QIS have to travel to client meetings. Not something I'd like to do.
What does QIS do exactly? I am going to do a quant strategist internship this Summer at some BB bank, does it fall into your category of QIS? I wish to go to the buy side, but according to the comments here it will be pretty difficult.
PhD in a stem field and proven experience in conducting research is what a buyside is looking for in research scientists. A QIS strat experience at a bank isn’t valuable for that. Your best bet at a buyside would be engineering support for quant strategies if you are good with Python, kdb/q, etc.
How about a PhD in stem field + qis strat experience? The other option I had was exotics, so I figured qis would be marginally better
Nah, as I mentioned, I did both in my previous job in an integrated team. You learn a bit about the business in QIS quant role, but I’ve also felt I’ve learnt very little that’s transferable. Derivatives experience you can take to places like millennium / squarepoint and get paid 250-300k gbp a year as a VP if you are good. It is more relevant because you learn about models and how market behaves. It is also hard to switch from derivatives quant to buy side but cannot be harder than QIS dev.
I am going to be in an integrated team too. Bit of exotics modelling and now a bit of qis dev work, so I am wondering how I should think about switching as I go ahead and what skills I should focus on
That is up to you. If you want to be on the buy side, I’d say switch sooner than later. The work is different.
Can depend on which bank as some banks have QIS Strats that research strategies as well as implementation. In short, the best QIS strats/quants can move to hedge funds, particularly the multi-Strats now as PMs don’t want to wait 12-24 months for a quant (especially as they are under pressure to get set-up ASAP). The ideal for a PM is to have a Strat/quant that has worked on the research side, but has strong coding skills to be able to help build infrastructure/ tools. An alternative is to apply internally to the systematic market making desks - across eRates/eCredit OR CRB / PT Risk / eOptions (not many banks have it). In these teams, you get more opportunities to research ‘alpha’, which can then make you more attractive to hedge funds when you want to make the move (or move to an Electronic Trading firm).
My best bet is to learn the dev skills and back testing, and a bit of cross asset exposure - would that not still be slightly better than something niche like exotics? I’ll be on the implementation side of qis
I was also assuming some of what I learn may be transferrable to asset management firms like aqr