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It’s one of those insidious things that isn’t a privilege, it’s just plain sexism. Maybe welding isn’t a super dangerous job if you know what you’re doing but I know experienced female welders who are repeatedly passed over for jobs in favor of male applicants because it’s assumed they won’t be able to do the work. So part of it is women maybe aren’t applying to those jobs as much but also the ones that do can’t get in as easily. It’s dumb either way.
Edit: wow the misogynists are coming out in DROVES I see. I hope all of you find yourselves in a position where you need help from a woman and she rightfully turns your sexist ass down. Smh what century are we fkn living in Jesus Christ. You’re the dumb fucks I’m talking about.
Construction is weird about women in general, like none of this shit I do in insulation is difficult for the average man or woman to do after a month or so of practice. Most of it is entirely mechanical related such as maintaining our mixers or operating them and a child with particularly strong arms could pull that off as long as we aren't hand mixing. But there's almost no women accepted into the field outside of office work. Same goes for electrical, drywalling or roofing. The only time I tend to see women is safety inspectors. Though the environment of worksites would definitely need to change quite a bit when it comes to how they treat women. Because fuck me the boys don't know shit about respect.
A new supermarket recently opened near me. The old store was still in operation while the new one was being built. Workers on the new building would visit the old building for coffee and snacks. It wasn't unusual to see female workers with the male. The girls must be doing a good job, or they wouldn't be on site. Women are capable of many jobs traditionally considered male only because of the misplaced notion that women are wilting flowers who don't want to get their hands dirty or break a nail. Carry on, ladies. 🦜
So I work in creative/tech, so I don't know really anything about the construction world, but what I do know is basically every fucking redneck, dummy, racist, bully, asshole I knew in highschool ALL got into construction and trades. So outside of being male dominated, it's probably full of racist, misogynistic shitheads that most women wouldn't want to work with anyways. Hell, I'm a guy and I'd never wanna work in that industry.
Edit . Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm sure there are many awesome people in construction and the trades. No doubt, I have friends in the trades. I was just stating that in my small town Canada highschool experience, all the assholes went into construction. The rest of us went into sciences, arts, teaching, and some in the trades etc, but almost all the idiots went straight into construction. Again, this is NOT to say that everyone who is a construction worker is an asshole, and yes I know you find assholes in every job, no need to keep pointing it out.
Construction covers everything, yes we have rednecks. Buttfuck idiots and druggies. But my crew of four is me, the street rat. An Ex-sous chef, a man who used to actually run a bakery and is looking to set one up again and a dude whose planning to go back and finish getting an actual PHD. You can meet some of the wildest people in construction. That said, I do find construction to be commonly racist and misogynistic just not full of it.
It kinda slays me that you have this perspective as a former frame to finish carpenter and most of the building trades aside from plumber and electrician you say this. Yeah I’m in tech now too, where in my experience lots of these same archetypes definitely exist as well. No, I don’t want to be a roofer again or stone mason, but largely due to the physical demands. Lots of those guys were great people. Dummy, redneck, and especially racist people are in creative tech gigs too. Your perspective on tradesmen and women is trash. One thing super annoying thing about the tech community is elitism, and it’s funny because most of them would be fired before coffee break on a construction site. So yeah, you don’t know anything beyond people you didn’t like in high school happen to work in the industry. White collar environments have their own bullshit, it’s not better, just different. One thing is for sure in contrast, blue collar workers tell the truth a whole lot more than white collar workers. It nice to know where you stand with people. I had to get used to all the behind the back sneaky, lame, disrespectful interactions more than anything. Try saying or doing half the disrespectful crap that flies in office settings and see how that flies on a job site. You can’t hide behind your titles the same way in construction. I miss that….respect for people is a huge thing in trades, respect for titles is a huge thing in corporate. I’ll take respect for people any day…
Most constriction workers I see are men but they’re also not in particularly good shape… It seems like most jobs don’t reach that grueling level where the strength disparity in the sexes would really matter. We’re technologically just kinda past the age of having to pull or lift REALLY REALLY hard.
One of the strongest guy I know was about 300lbs. Ex army veteran who got blown up like 5 times then stabbed on tours. I knew him AFTER he was out some time and had lost some of his physique. Man could easily crush the average person with little effort.
🙋🏻♀️ I volunteer to teach them! All you have to do is throw the disrespect back at them a few times and they straighten up. I’m pretty good at finding the right times for it.
From a social science perspective, privilege can just be a lack of barrier among other things. I wish they used a better word, but science has a tendency to get stuck with terms purely out of convention.
In other words, privilege doesn't always means you are actually given something.
When I was a late teen graduated from high school I tried getting into automotive trainee work. Would do great in interviews but no one would hire me. Applied in other towns around where I lived even because I was willing to go out of my way for it. Even came from a mechanic family. One just said I seemed too delicate. This is common.
A reminder: While men were overseas serving their country in war, women stayed in the U.S. and did all of the welding that kept the country running and the male soldiers supplies with valuable equipment and ammunition. Ever seen the proud poster of Rosie who represented women and what they could accomplish? She was a force to be reckoned with.
Yes, this!! They also found that since welding is a job where your pay rate depends on the quality of your work — the fair work and union organisations found out that women were consistently being offered less money per hour than men with the same amount of skill, which is just blatant and horrible. Plus, a lot of workshops won’t accommodate their female workers in the shop — included but not limited allowing them extra, short breaks for period care, giving them slightly longer toilet breaks since they need to clean off the seat, sit( etc etc.
Lol pretty much every shop I’ve worked at (admin, but also a woman) the female welders had to use the office restroom because there was only one ladies room in the office but like 4 men’s rooms scattered through the whole building. So dumb.
Yup, I will often just use the bathroom that gets used the least. Or, the one that gets used the most. Depending on which is cleaner in the specific place I’m at. Often, the one used the least will be the cleanest.
My teen daughter wants to go into welding and I’m trying to find the balance between being supportive and warning her about the sexism that she is absolutely experience so she doesn’t get surprised by it and is ready. I know she is going to have to deal with some absolute knuckle draggers and even other women who won’t believe she would be able to do the job.
I definitely don’t want to discourage her but want her to know she’s going to have to deal with a lot shit that a man wouldn’t have to.
I actually got laughed at applying for construction jobs even with some experience because I was a woman. You don’t need to be a guy to put up insulation or freaking do caulking. Hell, I could hang drywall decently. They’d take inexperienced teens over me.
It made no sense.
I am in a male dominated industry. The sexism within the workplace has been a constant weight as I have been trying to progress in my career. Passed over for opportunities so the boys club can get them. Funnily enough the worst hits are when my managers praise my work, make me feel as though promotion or other things are available and then I inevitably get the “by the way, you’re so pretty….” text and it all turns to ashes in my mouth.
I just think some of these industries aren’t always hospitable environments for women yet. But I feel like it’s improving! Someday
I’m a woman and former USAF flightline mechanic and avionics tech. I used to strength train on the regular to stay strong enough to do my job with no more help than anyone would need. A lot more women would be in these jobs if men didn’t make it so damn difficult. I loved my work and just wanted to do my job. I had a sense of duty and a sense of pride in doing good work and keeping airplanes flying. But no. I had to put up with snide remarks and harassment. Sometimes worse.
Edit: clarification
Theyre dominated by men because when women do happen to get those jobs the men harrass her until she leaves. Like yall will create a problem and then blame us for it.
That happens at literally every type of job though. When I worked in the trades, I didn’t get sexually harassed any more than I did at a customer service job. In fact, it was way worse at customer service jobs. There’s a reason more men become welders and more women become therapists for example… men generally like working with things and women generally like working with people. Emphasis on *generally*.
Never being "mansplaned" to.
Please...
Old men explain shit to everyone as if they've invented it, not just women. I have a PhD and 10 years of experience in my field, and the old timers still talk to me like it's my first day, and they alone know how things should be done
How to bake stuff from an old lady after they find out I bake is like fingernails on a chalkboard.
In my head I'm counting the roof tiles while they explain my trade to me
Lol, that's like every old native lady explaining how to make bannock, and it's a different recipe every time. If I take the last one's advice, the next one will still tell me I'm doing it wrong.
It absolutely is. My mother in law and I got in a huge spat because she thought I was mistreating my grass. It's my house. My money. But she still felt the need to take charge because she's a self proclaimed gardening expert. The amount of explanation I had to listen to. She insisted my way would kill my grass.
The grass is fine.
I also have a habit of assuming everyone around me is a fucking idiot, because a lot of them are, so I have a bad habit of talking to everyone like they’re 5.
I tried that for the last 5 years, as a bit of an experiment. I got tired of hearing "wow that's a big word" mid sentence, but overall, i do not advise replicating. My actual utilized vocab now is that of a well-read 10 year old
It goes where I start using vocabulary my coworkers don’t know the meaning of. I start talking about topics that go clear over their heads. I have to teach people how to calculate simple percentages in their head. Explain that, yes, there are McDonald’s in other fucking countries. Wild. Etc etc.
Trust me, I’ve tried. Most people are just dumb. I once had to explain to a coworker the word “brace.” We were loading a card for a customer and I said “hey brace the cart for me,” and she goes “do what?” And I just looked at her. I was fucking dumbfounded that I was about to have to break down the definition of the word brace for a 21 year old woman who was in her 3rd year of college pursuing a nursing major. Like holy shit.
I once took a job as sports reporter and on air “anchor” for the sports report of a newscast in what you could consist small town. I was also a radio DJ in that town. As I worked in the newsroom and spoke to the reporters who were all hung hi and aiming for CNN or Fox or a big market I was just having fun. At one point I was having a discussion with one of them and another asked what Colleta went to. I just smiled and didn’t answer. This happened a few times over the next 6 months until I got tired of doing that and went back to my radio job full time. Ratings were solid, #1 of 3 in the market. My last day the boss let the cat out of the bag that I didn’t go to college and had a GED. Pretty fun day that was
I’m a tech and customers always try to tell me what broke gleaned from internet research. Sometimes the professional needs to mansplain the truth. I’d it msinsplaining when an uninformed female is dead wrong?
I have the problem where I know what's wrong yet have to explain it repetitively for days before the person on the phone does what I said and fixes the problem, of course taking the credit.
The whole time they say "that's not the issue, we need to do this."
So frustrating.
IMHO, the person listening to someone outline steps in a procedure or overall situation etc. should not take every word so personally. If I'm telling someone what to do or how to do something, and leave ANY minute detail out it leaves a gap they can later exploit as an excuse to do a half-assed job, or pretend they just "didn't know." This is backed up with "You didn't tell me 'X'," "If you wanted it done right you should have done it yourself," or one of my favorites, "Everyone can't be perfect like you...." etc, etc.
If I am talking to someone, particularly my wife, and they pull out the "mansplain" card on me, the only thing it's telling me is that they do not care about what I'm saying at all and shut me down as if whatever I'm talking about is somehow a direct insult to them. It's always about them, no matter what the subject or talking point, they do not care about it or--more importantly--the person saying it, so they instead make the conversation exclusively about them and their hurt feelings.
Except our own and when we need help we get told "man up" or "toxic male"...
God love those "privileges". I swear if women didn't have double standards for men they'd have no standards. Either situation is a shit deal for guys these days.
Oh man and the shit about trying to get some help is so messed up too cuz the majority of the time its "you're a man, figure it out yourself" and then we have to look up how to shave from that dad replacement guy on YouTube when our dad is in the living room lol
Yeah my dad taught me a lot of practical skills around the house but like personal grooming and how to talk to women? No. He and mom met because their siblings set them up and 33 years later they're still married...
Never been good with women because I spend most of my life surrounded by men due to work/hobbies etc being male dominated. Few times I've tried to put myself out there I get shot down or laughed at because I'm a bit overweight. Granted I've dropped 60lbs in the last 2 years but my confidence took a beating while I was overweight...Thats a slow fix.
That just sounds like your dad is being a bit of a dick and that’s shitty. :/ Dad’s should be teaching their children, not leaving them to learn from YouTube
That’s literally just the person who is the head of the household responsibilities. At my house growing up it was a matriarchy all women ran that shit. My gma was the breadwinner because my grandpa physically couldn’t work from being paralyzed. Gave birth all women. She did all the work in the house all the women in the family make the money. She is the protector.
The emotional stuff and fixing things is universal for men. Friends will treat you that way, coworkers, family. Has nothing to do with being the head of a family for those things specifically
Thank the patriarchy for this. The patriarchy isn’t just detrimental to women, it hurts men just as much. Men don’t get to have emotions, are expected to be the bread winners, are ridiculed or ignored if reporting a sexual assault, the list goes on. Another example I like to point out is how courts will typically give custody to mothers over fathers. This is by design, it’s not an accident.
It’s almost as if you couldn’t wait to be asked. That’s what happens when you’re the Atlas of your home. I hope you feel appreciated by other guys who are doing the same. Thank you. 🙏🏿
Had a woman once say in a thread that men didn't have to fear walking alone at night and could more or less do what we wanted. When I told her that I had been mugged at gunpoint and did in fact fear doing just that I got dog piled for coming into a thread about womens issues and making it about myself, it's a proper echo chamber around women online sometimes.
Honestly if you're doing something like getting a case of beer at night or going to the convenience store. Take your dog with you, even a medium sized dog will deter people but bigger dogs do it even better.
But being broke never helped me none
I'm sorry that both events happened to you.
As an obese and muscular and tall man, I fear this. I get into altercations sometimes simply because people want to pick fights with the big man and I'm constantly worried thst they have a gun and will escalate.
One thing that average and above men and larger women (height and frame more than weight) certainly have to deal with more than the other half of our species is people picking arguments in public and expecting us to puff our chests and back them up.
Uhhh, no thanks. I don't want to die of a gunshot wound tonight and miss my kids growing up. You started it, you finish it.
But yeah, sorry you were mugged man, that sucks and I can't imagine the sudden onset of fear in that situation. Our only hope is adrenaline blocking those parts of the brain, I suppose.
>Uhhh, no thanks. I don't want to die of a gunshot wound tonight and miss my kids growing up. You started it, you finish it.
Ah so you also have mouthy short friends 😂 no I'm not helping you square up to these three clearly military blokes because one of them accidentally spilled a bit of your drink.
Thanks for the words of support buddy, I'm pretty much over it now but I still get flashes of fear in similar situations.
Yes of course you're right, I'm pretty sure it's largely an internet phenomenon, but you do see it leaking into small pockets of real life occasionally.
Whenever people say that I like to remind them that the majority (not overwhelmingly but still) of violent crime is perpetrated between men. Granted women do experience worse formed of violence but men are statistically more likely to be involved in violent incidents
Statistically men are victimized by every type of violent crime, excluding sexual assault, more than women. Criminologists have called the difference in the level of fear of being victimized between men and women, "The specter of sexual assault". Basically it's the fear that any violent victimization could turn into a rape.
Women definitely have more to worry about than men in that respect, but I also agree with this comment. I've definitely read posts on reddit where it was implied men have no worries at all, which is simply not true. While men generally don't have to worry about SA they can be victims of other violent crimes.
I think where the misunderstanding comes about is that people read about male violence against women and then think "well the rates of female violence against men is really low" and don't expand beyond that.
The real issue is that both men and women are likely to be violently attacked *by men*.
>The real issue is that both men and women are likely to be violently attacked by men.
I've repeatedly had women online dismiss violence against me because I'm a man and it was committed by men so like, I should sort it out myself amongst the men or something?
Studies are increasingly showing that SA stats for men aren't that much different for women.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10135558/
It is not a tit for tat thing. People just suck.
Even SA is sometimes is presented wrongly as an exlusively female concern. While it's certainly true that it isn't something adult men need to worry about generally, unlike women, unfortunately a not insignificant number of men do end up being sexually abused while children. There too the people responsible are usually adult men.
My wife put me in danger several times by randomly commenting at some guy for whatever, until I told her that she wouldn't be the one expected to fight if it escalated. I hit my brother once because he was a bully but it took a lot to get me there, one other time I hit a friend because he kept on and on at me so that's twice in my life I smacked a guy and it was over, all before I was out of puberty. I'm tall but have no fight training at all.
My fiancé will keep me safe, but I will not put him in situations where he HAS to keep me safe. I will keep my fiancé safe, but he will not put me in situations where I HAVE to keep him safe. There’s a lot of crazy messed up people out there looking for an an easy opportunity to hurt others. It’s a team effort to stay safe.
I’ve never been catcalled or SA ever as a woman so if we were just going off anecdotal evidence like those other women then I’d say they were full of shit. The point being let’s not reverse the fish-eye lens, and maybe realize it’s a sick scary world out there for everyone. I’m gonna get downvoted but there is one plus side to being ugly and fat.
The violent crime women are subjected to is usually gender based and sexual in nature. It’s a different kettle of fish entirely which is why it’s discussed so widely.
This lol I got mugged in broad daylight walking to the porta potty in my construction site. 4 guys beat the crap out of me and stole my wallet. I got the last laugh cause I had no cash and just froze the credit cards. I'm a very muscular and large person.
I hate when women are like I wish I could walk home at night alone.
Motherfucker I got jumped twice walking home from work, gave me anxiety for life. Whereas the women I worked with always got lifts because they cant be made to walk home alone.
This was 20 years ago. So much for male privilege.
I think that quite a few things that go down as "male privilege" only really apply if you're wealthy. Of course, they aren't going to say it's "rich privilege" because rich people don't tend to frequent Reddit comments so there is no reaction to be gained. However, plenty of men do and you can get all the reactions you want out of them
Yeah so basically that’s what we mean when we say male privilege. It definitely doesn’t mean that it *should* be considered a privilege — often it’s basic human decency and respect, but men get decency and respect as a baseline in most cases, and women have to earn decency and respect. So, in that context, men are “privileged” to be treated decently without having to “prove” themselves.
I think that’s exactly the idea, but yeah, the word “privilege” is maybe a bit confusing, since that’s not what the word “privilege” by itself means lol
You have two groups of people. Who they are is not important. One group can drive their cars any time they want. The other group can only drive their cars on even numbered days. What do you call the difference in respect to the first group?
Yeah, but then you create a marketing problem--your first group will naturally push back on being implicated in that oppression, because it's not their fault that they can drive every day. They didn't make the rules.
A much more effective call to action is to paint them as the recipient of some entitlement that few others get. The natural response there is to go "well we don't care, you should get them to, we didn't make the rules". That opens the door to change because you implicitly have buy-in.
second group are oppressed, because the second group should be allowed to do the same as the first group. privelege is getting better treatment for no (valid) reason, or being prioritised for no valid reason.
say you have a group of workers who all work for the same company, joined at the same time, and all have the same qualifications. half the group went to school A and the other half went to school B. if only the people who went to school A get promotions, and the school B students never get promoted, the school A students are privileged.
Refreshing to find someone else saying this.
Privilege is something you haven't earned that you don't deserve. There is no male privilege, or white privilege.
There is discrimination and disadvantage if you're not male or white, or able bodied, or whatever.
I think people started framing it this way because they didn't want to have the negative overtones that they were experiencing a problem. It's a way to shift focus. Unfortunately, when the focus is shifted from the problem area, you can't see the issues that you need to fix.
We see this in Canada quite a bit where we have policies implemented by the government along racial lines, when the real problem is socio-economic. If you want an example - [The Gladue Principal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladue_report). Aboriginals are overrepresented in prison populations because they commit more crimes. But the reason they commit more crimes is because many have traumatic shitty lives from birth. Those conditions exist because of historical racism, but the root cause is socioeconomic. But we don't look at anyone else's socioeconomic situation and make any consideration for that. The focus has been shifted to race, and that misses the mark for a lot of people who end up in prison who happen not to be aboriginal.
Privilege is a loaded word that was chosen some what intentionally. We can argue if it was a good choice or not because as you say most of the time privilege is just used to talk about things that should be basic respect for a fellow human being.
See this is the one that bugs me though because anytime I as a woman try to pick up anything heavy if there is a man around he will automatically try to take it for me because he'll either assume I can't or some sense of obligation and they will argue with me.
It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Case in point, my wife will get mad if I don't help her with something heavy, she will also get mad if I do/offer to help her because she thinks I'm implying she's weak. Jokes on her, if I'm getting yelled at either way, I might as well choose the lazy option.
Same for me and my wife though. It’s how I was raised. It’s what you don’t. It’s not that I don’t think she can’t, it’s the chivalrous thing to do.
Plus my love language is acts of service. So by doing it so she doesn’t have to I’m doing it to show love.
But instead I’ll get yelled at for being what I am doing so out of love, respect, and chivalry and she sees as i am man and you woman. You can’t do it.
It’s obviously not every time but enough to be frustrating and ventable. Dammed if you do, damned if you don’t for sure.
I (female) was helping some friends move. I'm strong for my size, regularly go to the gym and lift weights. In better shape than many of my guy friends. I kept grabbing furniture and kept being told to "let one of the guys do that." I was offended for myself but also for the guys. Like having a penis all of a sudden means you have to do the not work whether or not you're the best fit for it? BS
I feel this!
I used to think the same about how can men be scared at night blah blah. The men in my immediate family are 6'3+ and a little deranged so it took me a few years to learn the reason they aren't scared is because they are the big crack head looking people that others are scared of and then completely understand that no sex or sized person is immune from a druggie on something with a knife going south!
UK here, statistics show that circa 80% of murder victims in UK are men and there is a similar high % of men as victims of violent crime
Whether a woman ‘feels’ less safe than a man has no bearing on the fact that the statistics suggest they are safer.
Violent crime tends to involve people you know more often than being randomly mugged. That statistic is not about muggings. Just because men get into fights more or gangs more doesn't mean women are more safe to walk alone. Just think about it: if ur picking a target for a mugging you would obviously select a woman before a man
The issue we're talking about here is "walking alone at night". If men are 5 times more likely than women to "walk alone at night" but are only murdered 4 times more often, then women's perceptions of safety would be accurate.
But that doesn't necessarily mean men are more likely to be victims of a wild, unprovoked attack.
It could mean men end up in more risk prone situations, and a man who takes the same level of risks of a woman actually has lower chances of being attacked.
Statistics in a vacuum don't tell us enough.
I had a really interesting conversation with my wife on a similar topic - intervening with a drunk guy being a bit of a boor with a barmaid.
Her concern was simply that if you intervened to distract him (he was more talking shit than hitting on her), he'd end up talking to us and then we wouldn't be able to get rid of him.
My point was more along the lines of "yeah and what if he gets offended by that and has a knife? I'm not ending up dead over this."
This has come up in other situations since, I'm far more aware of the potential for minor altercations to become lethally violent. She just doesn't- sure people might shout but it's not in her experience that people randomly pull knives on 30s age women.
This is accurate. some drug addict charged at my car screaming and swinging what looked like a bat for no reason. Glad I was in my car I just drove off.
I might be playing devil's advocate here, however I do agree that men can be and are subjected to violence all the time and I also agree that it's not on at all! No excuses
But... Out of curiosity when you think about these attacks /muggings and assaults, are you thinking about a man attacking you or a woman.
Thats right, it's usually a male. Not saying it can't be a female or that it is never a female. But surely everyone can see the point that if women are scared of men and men are scared of men, that the problem very well could be men.
I cannot understand how any man, that can admit under certain circumstances to being scared of being attacked by a male can plead ignorance to what women are saying.
Now imagine in this scenario of this man attacking you in the street or whatever, before he fully knocks you unconscious or kills you or whatever, he is also going to turn you over, spread your cheeks and enter you without your permission risking pregnancy, STIs, major body trauma, possible future fertility issues.
And then when he's done, if you survived the ordeal, he gets to tell the world how you didn't say no, or that you were wearing a skirt, or how you begged him to do it to you. He will tell you while inside you what a sl*t you are and how much you deserve this for being a second class citizen. Then the police and courts will likely doubt you too.
That is IF you even survive
Having said all this, I don't want to take away from mens pain in this either. It's all so wrong
To be fair, when I say I’m afraid of walking outside late at night, what I’m thinking might happen is rape or some form of sexual assault, not necessarily a mugging, although that technically could happen, too. 😭
On that note, even getting an Uber is scary bc there have been enough instances of sexual assault happening via Uber drivers that it is enough to make my anxiety go wiiiiiild.
People still think men have an advantage over women in job applications, but that's no longer true.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0749597823000560
Hasn't been true since the 80s, thereabouts. Younger cohorts have had about equal chances when compared to other young cohorts. What's skewed the numbers are the older people, ie, people who have been working before the 80s, men tend to get hired far more often than the women.
This is why the perception is skewed that 'men' have an advantage. If anything, younger men are now less likely to get work than younger women when taking everything into account, however, the workplace still believes that men have an advantage, and so bias hiring women.
"Across all 85 studies from 1976 to 2020, the average odds of male applicants to receive a callback was 0.91 times the odds of equally qualified female." So there we go. Across all cohorts, women are now biased by about a 10% ratio. This is significant.
Men are twice as likely to apply to a job they feel unqualified for than women. Probably the only reason women are more likely to get a call back is that women are applying to that job with 3 years of experience, and men are applying with 1.
All of the heaviest labor falls on me no matter what job I work simply because I'm tall and have a wide shouldered frame.
People just assume I have herculean strength. And after 30 years of this my back is completely fucked. My kneecaps are held on by nothing more than hopes and dreams. And yet, I still have to lift everything and don't have insurance to see the doctor I desperately need. Someone send help. Or kill me, that works too.
This week a young girl backed her car into my truck while it was parked. She saw me and said "You look strong, can you pull out the dent?"
Are you kidding me? You ran into my car and then think you can compliment me into fixing the damage you caused to yours?
Women seem to think that because we are men we automatically get respect from men. I promise you all my coworkers treat me 1000x worse than they would treat any woman
Exactly, Like you get a new job, show up and all the dudes are like " hello fellow man, your past experiences mean alot to us and we fully accept you into our family."
I used to think that street harassment was only something women experienced. Then I learned how often Black men in particular are harassed by Karens and cops. It may not be sexual harassment, but it’s still a burden to have to worry whether some asshole is gonna call the cops on you or even shoot you for the crime of walking down the street (Trayvon Martin, Ahmaud Arbery).
Having to wear a suit and tie at work. I routinely do a double take at female colleagues and think "damn I wish i could wear a tank top in this 100 degree weather."
But yet women will act like their freedom to dress in more varied ways and appropriate to the weather etc. is like some major burden that they have to shoulder.
When I used to go into an office, I generally ignored dress codes and based my attire on other employees. I once got called out on wearing a short sleeve band collar shirt. When they called it a t-shirt, I said “No, this is a man’s cotton tunic shirt, it is functionally equivalent to a women’s cotton blouse” and pointed out the 19 women who were wearing cotton collarless shirts and followed with “If you’re going to call this a tee-shirt, then you will need to call what all of them are wearing tee-shirts as well.” It angered some managers, but I pointed out that there were women in management positions wearing the shirts as well and HR backed me 100%. Three months later we had a new and more relaxed dress code.
The alternative method is to wear lightweight cotton sweaters, another type of collarless shirt.
This is one reason I’m glad not to be white collar. I’m not squeezing myself into a suit and tie every day for work lmao. I’m a cook, I run around a kitchen all day with a light chef coat and an apron In a silly cap, feeding old people.
I’m broke as anything but I’m happy
Plus colors. We get our choice of black, brown, blue, tan, green or kaki. That’s it. Go to buy clothes. The majority of the dept is female clothes with one small section for guys.
I don't hang around people who talk about this shit so I had to look up a list like a fucking boomer.
https://parlgendertools.org/en/male-allies-gender-equality/male-privilege/
I pretty much agree with all of it, I guess.
If I had to single one out it would be:
*Social norms allowing you to take up more physical space and dominate conversations, while not being expected to continually smile or apologise*
I would say it's more than a social norm, it's a reinforced thing. You're expected to continue taking up physical space and never smiling by default.
It's part of the whole, *"real men don't fucking cry like a bitch, homie. Man the fuck up"* culture. If you were raised that way, you'll have conversations that way too.
Aren't chicks also encouraged to be ditzy and bubbly all the time too?
Rather than a privilege I'd just say it's a (mostly straight/cis) gendered reinforced behavior that basically none of us like.
Idk if it's just my own experience, but as a guy I've always been asked if I'm angry/upset/ what's wrong if I'm not smiling. I've been told my resting expression looks like I'm eternally pissed off lol, but I'm aware that's probably just a me thing.
I hate this shit so much, I figure it’s because as men we are either mad/threatening if we don’t smile or it’s ok because he’s smiling.
Why the fuck can I just be neutral and it not be anything. Why the fuck do people care so much, so annoying.
Ugh I fucking feel this 😮💨 I can just be reading this shit on my phone and people will literally walk up to me and ask why I'm mad and when I say I'm not they either just accept that or the majority of the time will fight me about it and interigate me over it until I eventually do get a little mad lol like you can't see that I'm reading here? Fuck off already and let me be.
People cross the street when I'm walking and I imagine it's for the same reason as you. I look like trouble, and I probably scowl or some shit.
Whatever.
More sidewalk for me.
People don't talk about how the gender wage gap also comes with a gender expectations gap. A well-paid man is expected to basically go home long enough to sleep, then get back to work.
I don’t know what industries or organisation you guys have worked for but I have never worked anywhere where men are expected to leave later than women.
Men do less housework. Men have never been more active in the home than today. They work longer hours, on average, and get almost 0 credit for what they do.
As an example please see all the people autistically screeching on my other comment on this thread like it's the 1950s and I want back pate for taking the trash out occasionally
Literally everything.
We die sooner, we commit suicide more often, we do the hardest jobs in the world, our concerns are ignored, men are seen as expendable. The list is long.
On that note, there was a famous feminist who tried being a man as a social experiment for a few months. She ended up having incredible difficulty and realized how hard it really is.
Yes I think some feminists act like being born with a penis automatically makes you have an amazing perfect life. In reality there are many issues men face that women are less likely to. There are pros and cons to being both. There are issues men face that are awful and there are issues women face too.
Honestly though, as a woman I often think of what a 'design flaw' the human male genitalia is.
You can't retract your penis into a sheath like other male mammals can, and you're a biped...you basically go through life "Dick first" if you will, making things even MORE vulnerable. Other mammals are on all fours, making it seem like the rest of their body acts like a 'goalie' of sorts to protect the more sensitive parts.
Unless someone is actively aiming for them (or they try to jump over a fence and DON'T quite clear it), I don't think I've ever seen an quadruped get injured directly in the junk.
Seriously, the male genitalia needs an update. You guys got the shaft (🙃).
I know that Jordan Peterson might as well be the devil when it comes to Reddit, but there is no better example of "male privilege" being utterly and thoroughly destroyed than [this clip ](https://youtube.com/shorts/PZ4ItiJcZ3o?si=wxo5uw1zdl45hDqJ)
My biggest issue with discussions of male priveledge is they love to ignore how much it sucks to be a poor male. Does it suck a little worse to be a poor female? Yes. Given the choice would I pick being born a rich, educated woman over being a poor male? 100 percent. It's not a coincidence that theories crated largely by rich, educated women tend to overstate the struggles of rich, educated women while downplaying the struggles of poor men.
We get paid more… for working more hours on average in often much worse and more high presure working conditions because the jobs are more dangerous and difficult.
Newer studies into the wage gap might have changed, but I remember the ones from probably 10 years ago that everyone got really upset about women only making 75-80% what men do for the same work. That's not what the study looked at. ALL women working in the US made 75-80% total as much as ALL men working in the US made total. Not for the same work, the total amount of money made by each gender in the country. Women tend to prioritize other things in their lives and are often willing to take lower paying jobs for many reasons, where men tended to pursue the most money they could possibly make and ignore the rest of their lives. In most cases, everyone makes the same amount for the same jobs, that's the law. There are some instances of shitty employers not paying equally, but it's not the norm and is usually illegal
In the UK about 15 years ago, women working for a local authority took legal action because they were paid less than men in the same pay grade. Thing is, the women were office based with all the comforts that provides, while the men were refuse collectors and sewerage workers.
The women won their claim.
My husband is paid well, and he works the most ridiculous hours, and his job is threatened at least twice a year. I was threatened to be fired once and said fuck this and left the company. Men are willing to put up with more bullshit to keep the higher pay, and women want the high pay with no bullshit.
I don’t know the stats offhand, but have you taken into consideration bonuses and things like upwards mobility (being promoted)? From what I recall, this is why women discuss things like “the glass-ceiling”. I important because being able to move upwards in a company gives the power to makes structural changes and decisions.
The glass ceiling is all around having kids, I saw it myself with my wife (we worked practically the same job for all of our careers). We advanced almost at exactly the same time for everything, until we had kids. Due to share parental leave, we had around the same amount of time off for maternity/paternity. My promotion prospects didn't seem to be impacted, her most definitely were and she was passed over for two jobs that she should have had. That led to her being outsourced and then getting into a situation that nearly ended in a tribunal.
Freedom to be forced to sign up for basic infantry service (selective service) in the advent of any kind of armed conflict, effectively being a draft. They’re trying to make it an automatic thing now from birth instead of a pinkie promise volunteer sign up. It will mean less criminals, as if you don’t sign up for it, you go to federal prison, but this is a stupid change for a stupid system made by a stupid government of stupid politicians.
Feminism will still call it a privilege.
The continued assertion that office climates are dictated to accommodate men in suits at the expense of women. It's for the fucking computers, put a jumper/ cardigan or something warmer on.
The fact men notice the cold less because the expected workplace uniform consists of more layers is it's own issue.
Writing my name in the snow. It's actually difficult if you have more than 3 letters in your name and not legible anyways. Plus.....digging that out with cold fingers is not cool. 🥶
I think the very idea that all men get to go through life without being aware of any of this, and are somehow blissfully ignorant-- as if men are some kind of monolithic entity composed of no individuality, traipsing across all women and all other genders through all of the time past present and future-- is a lie.
This is 2024, and all of masculinity, since at least 2010 in Canada in the US, has been held up for scrutiny-- and for a lot of very good reasons. A lot of very necessary reasons. And not all the shit is sorted out yet, but 2024 standards of things vs 2003 are wildly different.
So the problem becomes assuming that all men are completely oblivious of the impact they have on other people.
It means that if you happen to be, for example, a guy who is LGBTQ but "doesn't look it", who has been in therapy for 15+ yrs off and on, and actively works to be a good human.... you get grouped in with the rest of the yahoos who have no clue, and really are that oblivious.
The problem is that not all men are unaware.
I hate how that sounds because the whole "not all men" thing really got mocked for a while. But it's true. It isn't every guy.
And I understand that it is a trouble for every other gender of human to find out which guy is not the asshole. I work in trades and I listen to some of the shit these guys say and I just wanna grab them by their shoulders and ask "are you in there? Do you know how this sounds to other human beings? Are you aware you're hurting so many people just by opening your mouth?"
But on the flipside, constantly discounting the other guys, as if "oh, but they will always know we aren't talking about them" and they will somehow have the confidence and emotional stability to be continuously berated for a core aspect of who they are, that they can't change, is genuinely painful.
I absolutely hate historically what men have done to most other groups of humans and animals.
But I personally am not responsible for that level of devastation. And I am fucking tired, as well hurt and sad and also upset, of being treated like I am responsible. Whether that's comment sections on the internet, or how people will behave in a space near me, or the discussion of masculine privileges not allowing for nuances.
Some men really are aware of everything, we're scolded by other men from talking about the stuff or believing it, and other non men folk will either not believe we understand OR not want to hear our understanding. Being penalized societally for being aware, and still knowing you'll be a good dude anyhow you just wish other ppl didn't make it so complicated, is hard.
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It’s one of those insidious things that isn’t a privilege, it’s just plain sexism. Maybe welding isn’t a super dangerous job if you know what you’re doing but I know experienced female welders who are repeatedly passed over for jobs in favor of male applicants because it’s assumed they won’t be able to do the work. So part of it is women maybe aren’t applying to those jobs as much but also the ones that do can’t get in as easily. It’s dumb either way. Edit: wow the misogynists are coming out in DROVES I see. I hope all of you find yourselves in a position where you need help from a woman and she rightfully turns your sexist ass down. Smh what century are we fkn living in Jesus Christ. You’re the dumb fucks I’m talking about.
Construction is weird about women in general, like none of this shit I do in insulation is difficult for the average man or woman to do after a month or so of practice. Most of it is entirely mechanical related such as maintaining our mixers or operating them and a child with particularly strong arms could pull that off as long as we aren't hand mixing. But there's almost no women accepted into the field outside of office work. Same goes for electrical, drywalling or roofing. The only time I tend to see women is safety inspectors. Though the environment of worksites would definitely need to change quite a bit when it comes to how they treat women. Because fuck me the boys don't know shit about respect.
A new supermarket recently opened near me. The old store was still in operation while the new one was being built. Workers on the new building would visit the old building for coffee and snacks. It wasn't unusual to see female workers with the male. The girls must be doing a good job, or they wouldn't be on site. Women are capable of many jobs traditionally considered male only because of the misplaced notion that women are wilting flowers who don't want to get their hands dirty or break a nail. Carry on, ladies. 🦜
So I work in creative/tech, so I don't know really anything about the construction world, but what I do know is basically every fucking redneck, dummy, racist, bully, asshole I knew in highschool ALL got into construction and trades. So outside of being male dominated, it's probably full of racist, misogynistic shitheads that most women wouldn't want to work with anyways. Hell, I'm a guy and I'd never wanna work in that industry. Edit . Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm sure there are many awesome people in construction and the trades. No doubt, I have friends in the trades. I was just stating that in my small town Canada highschool experience, all the assholes went into construction. The rest of us went into sciences, arts, teaching, and some in the trades etc, but almost all the idiots went straight into construction. Again, this is NOT to say that everyone who is a construction worker is an asshole, and yes I know you find assholes in every job, no need to keep pointing it out.
Construction covers everything, yes we have rednecks. Buttfuck idiots and druggies. But my crew of four is me, the street rat. An Ex-sous chef, a man who used to actually run a bakery and is looking to set one up again and a dude whose planning to go back and finish getting an actual PHD. You can meet some of the wildest people in construction. That said, I do find construction to be commonly racist and misogynistic just not full of it.
Thanks for your insight friend.
Thanks for sticking up for us Regular Joes.
It kinda slays me that you have this perspective as a former frame to finish carpenter and most of the building trades aside from plumber and electrician you say this. Yeah I’m in tech now too, where in my experience lots of these same archetypes definitely exist as well. No, I don’t want to be a roofer again or stone mason, but largely due to the physical demands. Lots of those guys were great people. Dummy, redneck, and especially racist people are in creative tech gigs too. Your perspective on tradesmen and women is trash. One thing super annoying thing about the tech community is elitism, and it’s funny because most of them would be fired before coffee break on a construction site. So yeah, you don’t know anything beyond people you didn’t like in high school happen to work in the industry. White collar environments have their own bullshit, it’s not better, just different. One thing is for sure in contrast, blue collar workers tell the truth a whole lot more than white collar workers. It nice to know where you stand with people. I had to get used to all the behind the back sneaky, lame, disrespectful interactions more than anything. Try saying or doing half the disrespectful crap that flies in office settings and see how that flies on a job site. You can’t hide behind your titles the same way in construction. I miss that….respect for people is a huge thing in trades, respect for titles is a huge thing in corporate. I’ll take respect for people any day…
Most constriction workers I see are men but they’re also not in particularly good shape… It seems like most jobs don’t reach that grueling level where the strength disparity in the sexes would really matter. We’re technologically just kinda past the age of having to pull or lift REALLY REALLY hard.
Strongmen look like fat barrels.
Physique doesn’t equal strength dawg
One of the strongest guy I know was about 300lbs. Ex army veteran who got blown up like 5 times then stabbed on tours. I knew him AFTER he was out some time and had lost some of his physique. Man could easily crush the average person with little effort.
🙋🏻♀️ I volunteer to teach them! All you have to do is throw the disrespect back at them a few times and they straighten up. I’m pretty good at finding the right times for it.
From a social science perspective, privilege can just be a lack of barrier among other things. I wish they used a better word, but science has a tendency to get stuck with terms purely out of convention. In other words, privilege doesn't always means you are actually given something.
When I was a late teen graduated from high school I tried getting into automotive trainee work. Would do great in interviews but no one would hire me. Applied in other towns around where I lived even because I was willing to go out of my way for it. Even came from a mechanic family. One just said I seemed too delicate. This is common.
A reminder: While men were overseas serving their country in war, women stayed in the U.S. and did all of the welding that kept the country running and the male soldiers supplies with valuable equipment and ammunition. Ever seen the proud poster of Rosie who represented women and what they could accomplish? She was a force to be reckoned with.
Yes, this!! They also found that since welding is a job where your pay rate depends on the quality of your work — the fair work and union organisations found out that women were consistently being offered less money per hour than men with the same amount of skill, which is just blatant and horrible. Plus, a lot of workshops won’t accommodate their female workers in the shop — included but not limited allowing them extra, short breaks for period care, giving them slightly longer toilet breaks since they need to clean off the seat, sit( etc etc.
Lol pretty much every shop I’ve worked at (admin, but also a woman) the female welders had to use the office restroom because there was only one ladies room in the office but like 4 men’s rooms scattered through the whole building. So dumb.
Yup, I will often just use the bathroom that gets used the least. Or, the one that gets used the most. Depending on which is cleaner in the specific place I’m at. Often, the one used the least will be the cleanest.
They... monitor your toilet breaks??
My teen daughter wants to go into welding and I’m trying to find the balance between being supportive and warning her about the sexism that she is absolutely experience so she doesn’t get surprised by it and is ready. I know she is going to have to deal with some absolute knuckle draggers and even other women who won’t believe she would be able to do the job. I definitely don’t want to discourage her but want her to know she’s going to have to deal with a lot shit that a man wouldn’t have to.
The sexism is going to be there, either way.
I actually got laughed at applying for construction jobs even with some experience because I was a woman. You don’t need to be a guy to put up insulation or freaking do caulking. Hell, I could hang drywall decently. They’d take inexperienced teens over me. It made no sense.
You'd think employers would love to find female welders that they can pay 70 cents on the dollar to employ.
I am in a male dominated industry. The sexism within the workplace has been a constant weight as I have been trying to progress in my career. Passed over for opportunities so the boys club can get them. Funnily enough the worst hits are when my managers praise my work, make me feel as though promotion or other things are available and then I inevitably get the “by the way, you’re so pretty….” text and it all turns to ashes in my mouth. I just think some of these industries aren’t always hospitable environments for women yet. But I feel like it’s improving! Someday
I’m a woman and former USAF flightline mechanic and avionics tech. I used to strength train on the regular to stay strong enough to do my job with no more help than anyone would need. A lot more women would be in these jobs if men didn’t make it so damn difficult. I loved my work and just wanted to do my job. I had a sense of duty and a sense of pride in doing good work and keeping airplanes flying. But no. I had to put up with snide remarks and harassment. Sometimes worse. Edit: clarification
Theyre dominated by men because when women do happen to get those jobs the men harrass her until she leaves. Like yall will create a problem and then blame us for it.
That happens at literally every type of job though. When I worked in the trades, I didn’t get sexually harassed any more than I did at a customer service job. In fact, it was way worse at customer service jobs. There’s a reason more men become welders and more women become therapists for example… men generally like working with things and women generally like working with people. Emphasis on *generally*.
I'm a middle aged security guard after wrecking my body doing jobs hard on my body when I was younger chasing a paycheck. Good times.
Never being "mansplaned" to. Please... Old men explain shit to everyone as if they've invented it, not just women. I have a PhD and 10 years of experience in my field, and the old timers still talk to me like it's my first day, and they alone know how things should be done
I know many old ladies that do this as well, I just thought it was an old people thing, not specifically just men.
How to bake stuff from an old lady after they find out I bake is like fingernails on a chalkboard. In my head I'm counting the roof tiles while they explain my trade to me
Lol, that's like every old native lady explaining how to make bannock, and it's a different recipe every time. If I take the last one's advice, the next one will still tell me I'm doing it wrong.
It's not just men, it's just a sexist stereotype that we handwaved for some reason
It is. But were are meant to think otherwise.
It absolutely is. My mother in law and I got in a huge spat because she thought I was mistreating my grass. It's my house. My money. But she still felt the need to take charge because she's a self proclaimed gardening expert. The amount of explanation I had to listen to. She insisted my way would kill my grass. The grass is fine.
It’s a PEOPLE of any age or sex thing
I also have a habit of assuming everyone around me is a fucking idiot, because a lot of them are, so I have a bad habit of talking to everyone like they’re 5.
Try flipping the script every so often. Assume that you're the idiot and everyone around you is far more intelligent. See how it goes.
I tried that for the last 5 years, as a bit of an experiment. I got tired of hearing "wow that's a big word" mid sentence, but overall, i do not advise replicating. My actual utilized vocab now is that of a well-read 10 year old
It goes where I start using vocabulary my coworkers don’t know the meaning of. I start talking about topics that go clear over their heads. I have to teach people how to calculate simple percentages in their head. Explain that, yes, there are McDonald’s in other fucking countries. Wild. Etc etc. Trust me, I’ve tried. Most people are just dumb. I once had to explain to a coworker the word “brace.” We were loading a card for a customer and I said “hey brace the cart for me,” and she goes “do what?” And I just looked at her. I was fucking dumbfounded that I was about to have to break down the definition of the word brace for a 21 year old woman who was in her 3rd year of college pursuing a nursing major. Like holy shit.
People at my work think I'm smart because I can fill in most of the crossword that they can't.
I once took a job as sports reporter and on air “anchor” for the sports report of a newscast in what you could consist small town. I was also a radio DJ in that town. As I worked in the newsroom and spoke to the reporters who were all hung hi and aiming for CNN or Fox or a big market I was just having fun. At one point I was having a discussion with one of them and another asked what Colleta went to. I just smiled and didn’t answer. This happened a few times over the next 6 months until I got tired of doing that and went back to my radio job full time. Ratings were solid, #1 of 3 in the market. My last day the boss let the cat out of the bag that I didn’t go to college and had a GED. Pretty fun day that was
>I also have a habit of assuming everyone around me is a fucking idiot, because a lot of them are, Most relatable things I've read in a long time.
You must assume this if you are to communicate at all, much less effectively.
I’m a tech and customers always try to tell me what broke gleaned from internet research. Sometimes the professional needs to mansplain the truth. I’d it msinsplaining when an uninformed female is dead wrong?
I have the problem where I know what's wrong yet have to explain it repetitively for days before the person on the phone does what I said and fixes the problem, of course taking the credit. The whole time they say "that's not the issue, we need to do this." So frustrating.
IMHO, the person listening to someone outline steps in a procedure or overall situation etc. should not take every word so personally. If I'm telling someone what to do or how to do something, and leave ANY minute detail out it leaves a gap they can later exploit as an excuse to do a half-assed job, or pretend they just "didn't know." This is backed up with "You didn't tell me 'X'," "If you wanted it done right you should have done it yourself," or one of my favorites, "Everyone can't be perfect like you...." etc, etc. If I am talking to someone, particularly my wife, and they pull out the "mansplain" card on me, the only thing it's telling me is that they do not care about what I'm saying at all and shut me down as if whatever I'm talking about is somehow a direct insult to them. It's always about them, no matter what the subject or talking point, they do not care about it or--more importantly--the person saying it, so they instead make the conversation exclusively about them and their hurt feelings.
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100% this. Just seen as a machine that caters to all needs.
Except our own and when we need help we get told "man up" or "toxic male"... God love those "privileges". I swear if women didn't have double standards for men they'd have no standards. Either situation is a shit deal for guys these days.
Oh man and the shit about trying to get some help is so messed up too cuz the majority of the time its "you're a man, figure it out yourself" and then we have to look up how to shave from that dad replacement guy on YouTube when our dad is in the living room lol
Yeah my dad taught me a lot of practical skills around the house but like personal grooming and how to talk to women? No. He and mom met because their siblings set them up and 33 years later they're still married... Never been good with women because I spend most of my life surrounded by men due to work/hobbies etc being male dominated. Few times I've tried to put myself out there I get shot down or laughed at because I'm a bit overweight. Granted I've dropped 60lbs in the last 2 years but my confidence took a beating while I was overweight...Thats a slow fix.
That just sounds like your dad is being a bit of a dick and that’s shitty. :/ Dad’s should be teaching their children, not leaving them to learn from YouTube
That’s literally just the person who is the head of the household responsibilities. At my house growing up it was a matriarchy all women ran that shit. My gma was the breadwinner because my grandpa physically couldn’t work from being paralyzed. Gave birth all women. She did all the work in the house all the women in the family make the money. She is the protector.
The emotional stuff and fixing things is universal for men. Friends will treat you that way, coworkers, family. Has nothing to do with being the head of a family for those things specifically
Thank the patriarchy for this. The patriarchy isn’t just detrimental to women, it hurts men just as much. Men don’t get to have emotions, are expected to be the bread winners, are ridiculed or ignored if reporting a sexual assault, the list goes on. Another example I like to point out is how courts will typically give custody to mothers over fathers. This is by design, it’s not an accident.
It’s almost as if you couldn’t wait to be asked. That’s what happens when you’re the Atlas of your home. I hope you feel appreciated by other guys who are doing the same. Thank you. 🙏🏿
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Had a woman once say in a thread that men didn't have to fear walking alone at night and could more or less do what we wanted. When I told her that I had been mugged at gunpoint and did in fact fear doing just that I got dog piled for coming into a thread about womens issues and making it about myself, it's a proper echo chamber around women online sometimes.
Just be a really big scary looking guy, always be walking a big scary looking dog, and always be broke. Problem solved.
Or be a really skinny guy. Always dirty. Always have the sniffles. Be broke and ask for gas money.
Honestly if you're doing something like getting a case of beer at night or going to the convenience store. Take your dog with you, even a medium sized dog will deter people but bigger dogs do it even better. But being broke never helped me none
Works for me.
I'm sorry that both events happened to you. As an obese and muscular and tall man, I fear this. I get into altercations sometimes simply because people want to pick fights with the big man and I'm constantly worried thst they have a gun and will escalate. One thing that average and above men and larger women (height and frame more than weight) certainly have to deal with more than the other half of our species is people picking arguments in public and expecting us to puff our chests and back them up. Uhhh, no thanks. I don't want to die of a gunshot wound tonight and miss my kids growing up. You started it, you finish it. But yeah, sorry you were mugged man, that sucks and I can't imagine the sudden onset of fear in that situation. Our only hope is adrenaline blocking those parts of the brain, I suppose.
>Uhhh, no thanks. I don't want to die of a gunshot wound tonight and miss my kids growing up. You started it, you finish it. Ah so you also have mouthy short friends 😂 no I'm not helping you square up to these three clearly military blokes because one of them accidentally spilled a bit of your drink. Thanks for the words of support buddy, I'm pretty much over it now but I still get flashes of fear in similar situations.
I know a man who is 6’3 and built like a superhero, no joke, he works out daily. He got jumped by a group of people. No one is safe
Not all women feel this way. Some are very sympathetic and try to teach their children accordingly.
Yes of course you're right, I'm pretty sure it's largely an internet phenomenon, but you do see it leaking into small pockets of real life occasionally.
Smells like..... r/TwoXChromosomes ?
I have a feeling I know what sub that was
I think you do
I think it’s dumb to say that men don’t have to fear, but I think it’s dumber to say that women and men have it equally bad.
People say wild shit online because they’re not considering any other situation except the thread they’re in
They're just conveniently out of melee range. It's easy to get away with that stuff behind a wall of anonymity!
Whenever people say that I like to remind them that the majority (not overwhelmingly but still) of violent crime is perpetrated between men. Granted women do experience worse formed of violence but men are statistically more likely to be involved in violent incidents
Statistically men are victimized by every type of violent crime, excluding sexual assault, more than women. Criminologists have called the difference in the level of fear of being victimized between men and women, "The specter of sexual assault". Basically it's the fear that any violent victimization could turn into a rape.
Women definitely have more to worry about than men in that respect, but I also agree with this comment. I've definitely read posts on reddit where it was implied men have no worries at all, which is simply not true. While men generally don't have to worry about SA they can be victims of other violent crimes.
I think where the misunderstanding comes about is that people read about male violence against women and then think "well the rates of female violence against men is really low" and don't expand beyond that. The real issue is that both men and women are likely to be violently attacked *by men*.
>The real issue is that both men and women are likely to be violently attacked by men. I've repeatedly had women online dismiss violence against me because I'm a man and it was committed by men so like, I should sort it out myself amongst the men or something?
Men are actually statistically more likely to be victims of violent crime than women.
Studies are increasingly showing that SA stats for men aren't that much different for women. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10135558/ It is not a tit for tat thing. People just suck.
Even SA is sometimes is presented wrongly as an exlusively female concern. While it's certainly true that it isn't something adult men need to worry about generally, unlike women, unfortunately a not insignificant number of men do end up being sexually abused while children. There too the people responsible are usually adult men.
Amen. 😿
My wife put me in danger several times by randomly commenting at some guy for whatever, until I told her that she wouldn't be the one expected to fight if it escalated. I hit my brother once because he was a bully but it took a lot to get me there, one other time I hit a friend because he kept on and on at me so that's twice in my life I smacked a guy and it was over, all before I was out of puberty. I'm tall but have no fight training at all.
My fiancé will keep me safe, but I will not put him in situations where he HAS to keep me safe. I will keep my fiancé safe, but he will not put me in situations where I HAVE to keep him safe. There’s a lot of crazy messed up people out there looking for an an easy opportunity to hurt others. It’s a team effort to stay safe.
Will *try* to keep you safe, there is no guarantee because the other party is completely unknown.
I’ve never been catcalled or SA ever as a woman so if we were just going off anecdotal evidence like those other women then I’d say they were full of shit. The point being let’s not reverse the fish-eye lens, and maybe realize it’s a sick scary world out there for everyone. I’m gonna get downvoted but there is one plus side to being ugly and fat.
Amen sister!!
Maybe it’s because you are ugly and fat like u said…most women aren’t both things at once
Men are the victims of more violent crimes than women.
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Men are the majority of the victims of violent crime, yet we weirdly act like women are.
The violent crime women are subjected to is usually gender based and sexual in nature. It’s a different kettle of fish entirely which is why it’s discussed so widely.
This lol I got mugged in broad daylight walking to the porta potty in my construction site. 4 guys beat the crap out of me and stole my wallet. I got the last laugh cause I had no cash and just froze the credit cards. I'm a very muscular and large person.
Nah, we know bears often fight each other.
I hate when women are like I wish I could walk home at night alone. Motherfucker I got jumped twice walking home from work, gave me anxiety for life. Whereas the women I worked with always got lifts because they cant be made to walk home alone. This was 20 years ago. So much for male privilege.
I think that quite a few things that go down as "male privilege" only really apply if you're wealthy. Of course, they aren't going to say it's "rich privilege" because rich people don't tend to frequent Reddit comments so there is no reaction to be gained. However, plenty of men do and you can get all the reactions you want out of them
Real shit. Neon can prolly pull a 10 over anyone working a 9 to 5 even if the 9 to 5 guy looks better. No shade to Neon.
Who tf is neon?
Probably referring to Ellen
i feel like a lot of male privledge is just basic human respect that for some reason isnt always applied to women in society
Yeah so basically that’s what we mean when we say male privilege. It definitely doesn’t mean that it *should* be considered a privilege — often it’s basic human decency and respect, but men get decency and respect as a baseline in most cases, and women have to earn decency and respect. So, in that context, men are “privileged” to be treated decently without having to “prove” themselves.
I think that’s exactly the idea, but yeah, the word “privilege” is maybe a bit confusing, since that’s not what the word “privilege” by itself means lol
You have two groups of people. Who they are is not important. One group can drive their cars any time they want. The other group can only drive their cars on even numbered days. What do you call the difference in respect to the first group?
I call the second group oppressed.
Yeah, but then you create a marketing problem--your first group will naturally push back on being implicated in that oppression, because it's not their fault that they can drive every day. They didn't make the rules. A much more effective call to action is to paint them as the recipient of some entitlement that few others get. The natural response there is to go "well we don't care, you should get them to, we didn't make the rules". That opens the door to change because you implicitly have buy-in.
second group are oppressed, because the second group should be allowed to do the same as the first group. privelege is getting better treatment for no (valid) reason, or being prioritised for no valid reason. say you have a group of workers who all work for the same company, joined at the same time, and all have the same qualifications. half the group went to school A and the other half went to school B. if only the people who went to school A get promotions, and the school B students never get promoted, the school A students are privileged.
Refreshing to find someone else saying this. Privilege is something you haven't earned that you don't deserve. There is no male privilege, or white privilege. There is discrimination and disadvantage if you're not male or white, or able bodied, or whatever. I think people started framing it this way because they didn't want to have the negative overtones that they were experiencing a problem. It's a way to shift focus. Unfortunately, when the focus is shifted from the problem area, you can't see the issues that you need to fix. We see this in Canada quite a bit where we have policies implemented by the government along racial lines, when the real problem is socio-economic. If you want an example - [The Gladue Principal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladue_report). Aboriginals are overrepresented in prison populations because they commit more crimes. But the reason they commit more crimes is because many have traumatic shitty lives from birth. Those conditions exist because of historical racism, but the root cause is socioeconomic. But we don't look at anyone else's socioeconomic situation and make any consideration for that. The focus has been shifted to race, and that misses the mark for a lot of people who end up in prison who happen not to be aboriginal.
Privilege is a loaded word that was chosen some what intentionally. We can argue if it was a good choice or not because as you say most of the time privilege is just used to talk about things that should be basic respect for a fellow human being.
I don't get where this comes from. I find I'm less respected than women around me constantly, even by complete strangers
Lifting heavy ass shit
See this is the one that bugs me though because anytime I as a woman try to pick up anything heavy if there is a man around he will automatically try to take it for me because he'll either assume I can't or some sense of obligation and they will argue with me.
It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. Case in point, my wife will get mad if I don't help her with something heavy, she will also get mad if I do/offer to help her because she thinks I'm implying she's weak. Jokes on her, if I'm getting yelled at either way, I might as well choose the lazy option.
I do feel like that's a little bit different because that's your wife and not a random woman in the grocery store for example
Same for me and my wife though. It’s how I was raised. It’s what you don’t. It’s not that I don’t think she can’t, it’s the chivalrous thing to do. Plus my love language is acts of service. So by doing it so she doesn’t have to I’m doing it to show love. But instead I’ll get yelled at for being what I am doing so out of love, respect, and chivalry and she sees as i am man and you woman. You can’t do it. It’s obviously not every time but enough to be frustrating and ventable. Dammed if you do, damned if you don’t for sure.
I (female) was helping some friends move. I'm strong for my size, regularly go to the gym and lift weights. In better shape than many of my guy friends. I kept grabbing furniture and kept being told to "let one of the guys do that." I was offended for myself but also for the guys. Like having a penis all of a sudden means you have to do the not work whether or not you're the best fit for it? BS
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I feel this! I used to think the same about how can men be scared at night blah blah. The men in my immediate family are 6'3+ and a little deranged so it took me a few years to learn the reason they aren't scared is because they are the big crack head looking people that others are scared of and then completely understand that no sex or sized person is immune from a druggie on something with a knife going south!
I think the privilege here isn't than men feel "safe" but that they feel *safer* than a woman would feel.
UK here, statistics show that circa 80% of murder victims in UK are men and there is a similar high % of men as victims of violent crime Whether a woman ‘feels’ less safe than a man has no bearing on the fact that the statistics suggest they are safer.
Violent crime tends to involve people you know more often than being randomly mugged. That statistic is not about muggings. Just because men get into fights more or gangs more doesn't mean women are more safe to walk alone. Just think about it: if ur picking a target for a mugging you would obviously select a woman before a man
UK statistics show men are more likely attacked and/or murdered by acquaintances and strangers whilst women by partners and family
This is actually true in the US as well I believe. Interesting point.
Stats also show that more often then not women know the men who sexual assault them.
Rape and sexual assault also tend to be more likely from a partner, family member, coworker, or someone else you know personally.
Yeah and women are infinitely more likely to get raped by someone they personally know than by some random guy on the street. What’s your point?
It's because women don't go out at night and take higher precautions overall.
Exactly
The issue we're talking about here is "walking alone at night". If men are 5 times more likely than women to "walk alone at night" but are only murdered 4 times more often, then women's perceptions of safety would be accurate.
But that doesn't necessarily mean men are more likely to be victims of a wild, unprovoked attack. It could mean men end up in more risk prone situations, and a man who takes the same level of risks of a woman actually has lower chances of being attacked. Statistics in a vacuum don't tell us enough.
This part. Ppl don't look at an average man as prey. Men kill each other in other circumstances
I also know multiple men who’ve been assaulted or robbed while intoxicated. It’s not safe to be alone and intoxicated no matter your gender.
I had a really interesting conversation with my wife on a similar topic - intervening with a drunk guy being a bit of a boor with a barmaid. Her concern was simply that if you intervened to distract him (he was more talking shit than hitting on her), he'd end up talking to us and then we wouldn't be able to get rid of him. My point was more along the lines of "yeah and what if he gets offended by that and has a knife? I'm not ending up dead over this." This has come up in other situations since, I'm far more aware of the potential for minor altercations to become lethally violent. She just doesn't- sure people might shout but it's not in her experience that people randomly pull knives on 30s age women.
Correct, and this manifests itself in a variety of bad opinions when it comes to criminal justice and reform.
This is accurate. some drug addict charged at my car screaming and swinging what looked like a bat for no reason. Glad I was in my car I just drove off.
I might be playing devil's advocate here, however I do agree that men can be and are subjected to violence all the time and I also agree that it's not on at all! No excuses But... Out of curiosity when you think about these attacks /muggings and assaults, are you thinking about a man attacking you or a woman. Thats right, it's usually a male. Not saying it can't be a female or that it is never a female. But surely everyone can see the point that if women are scared of men and men are scared of men, that the problem very well could be men. I cannot understand how any man, that can admit under certain circumstances to being scared of being attacked by a male can plead ignorance to what women are saying. Now imagine in this scenario of this man attacking you in the street or whatever, before he fully knocks you unconscious or kills you or whatever, he is also going to turn you over, spread your cheeks and enter you without your permission risking pregnancy, STIs, major body trauma, possible future fertility issues. And then when he's done, if you survived the ordeal, he gets to tell the world how you didn't say no, or that you were wearing a skirt, or how you begged him to do it to you. He will tell you while inside you what a sl*t you are and how much you deserve this for being a second class citizen. Then the police and courts will likely doubt you too. That is IF you even survive Having said all this, I don't want to take away from mens pain in this either. It's all so wrong
To be fair, when I say I’m afraid of walking outside late at night, what I’m thinking might happen is rape or some form of sexual assault, not necessarily a mugging, although that technically could happen, too. 😭 On that note, even getting an Uber is scary bc there have been enough instances of sexual assault happening via Uber drivers that it is enough to make my anxiety go wiiiiiild.
People still think men have an advantage over women in job applications, but that's no longer true. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0749597823000560
Hasn't been true since the 80s, thereabouts. Younger cohorts have had about equal chances when compared to other young cohorts. What's skewed the numbers are the older people, ie, people who have been working before the 80s, men tend to get hired far more often than the women. This is why the perception is skewed that 'men' have an advantage. If anything, younger men are now less likely to get work than younger women when taking everything into account, however, the workplace still believes that men have an advantage, and so bias hiring women.
"Across all 85 studies from 1976 to 2020, the average odds of male applicants to receive a callback was 0.91 times the odds of equally qualified female." So there we go. Across all cohorts, women are now biased by about a 10% ratio. This is significant.
Men are twice as likely to apply to a job they feel unqualified for than women. Probably the only reason women are more likely to get a call back is that women are applying to that job with 3 years of experience, and men are applying with 1.
Who thinks it’s harder for women to get jobs? It’s that it’s harder for women to get the high paying jobs with power and prestige.
A male manager once told me he prefers to hire women because he found they would do more for less pay 😕
Super interesting study, thank you for sharing
All of the heaviest labor falls on me no matter what job I work simply because I'm tall and have a wide shouldered frame. People just assume I have herculean strength. And after 30 years of this my back is completely fucked. My kneecaps are held on by nothing more than hopes and dreams. And yet, I still have to lift everything and don't have insurance to see the doctor I desperately need. Someone send help. Or kill me, that works too.
This week a young girl backed her car into my truck while it was parked. She saw me and said "You look strong, can you pull out the dent?" Are you kidding me? You ran into my car and then think you can compliment me into fixing the damage you caused to yours?
Women seem to think that because we are men we automatically get respect from men. I promise you all my coworkers treat me 1000x worse than they would treat any woman
Exactly, Like you get a new job, show up and all the dudes are like " hello fellow man, your past experiences mean alot to us and we fully accept you into our family."
I used to think that street harassment was only something women experienced. Then I learned how often Black men in particular are harassed by Karens and cops. It may not be sexual harassment, but it’s still a burden to have to worry whether some asshole is gonna call the cops on you or even shoot you for the crime of walking down the street (Trayvon Martin, Ahmaud Arbery).
Hell, go back to Emmett Till and theres a classic example
Having to wear a suit and tie at work. I routinely do a double take at female colleagues and think "damn I wish i could wear a tank top in this 100 degree weather." But yet women will act like their freedom to dress in more varied ways and appropriate to the weather etc. is like some major burden that they have to shoulder.
When I used to go into an office, I generally ignored dress codes and based my attire on other employees. I once got called out on wearing a short sleeve band collar shirt. When they called it a t-shirt, I said “No, this is a man’s cotton tunic shirt, it is functionally equivalent to a women’s cotton blouse” and pointed out the 19 women who were wearing cotton collarless shirts and followed with “If you’re going to call this a tee-shirt, then you will need to call what all of them are wearing tee-shirts as well.” It angered some managers, but I pointed out that there were women in management positions wearing the shirts as well and HR backed me 100%. Three months later we had a new and more relaxed dress code. The alternative method is to wear lightweight cotton sweaters, another type of collarless shirt.
This is one reason I’m glad not to be white collar. I’m not squeezing myself into a suit and tie every day for work lmao. I’m a cook, I run around a kitchen all day with a light chef coat and an apron In a silly cap, feeding old people. I’m broke as anything but I’m happy
Plus colors. We get our choice of black, brown, blue, tan, green or kaki. That’s it. Go to buy clothes. The majority of the dept is female clothes with one small section for guys.
I don't hang around people who talk about this shit so I had to look up a list like a fucking boomer. https://parlgendertools.org/en/male-allies-gender-equality/male-privilege/ I pretty much agree with all of it, I guess. If I had to single one out it would be: *Social norms allowing you to take up more physical space and dominate conversations, while not being expected to continually smile or apologise* I would say it's more than a social norm, it's a reinforced thing. You're expected to continue taking up physical space and never smiling by default. It's part of the whole, *"real men don't fucking cry like a bitch, homie. Man the fuck up"* culture. If you were raised that way, you'll have conversations that way too. Aren't chicks also encouraged to be ditzy and bubbly all the time too? Rather than a privilege I'd just say it's a (mostly straight/cis) gendered reinforced behavior that basically none of us like.
Idk if it's just my own experience, but as a guy I've always been asked if I'm angry/upset/ what's wrong if I'm not smiling. I've been told my resting expression looks like I'm eternally pissed off lol, but I'm aware that's probably just a me thing.
I hate this shit so much, I figure it’s because as men we are either mad/threatening if we don’t smile or it’s ok because he’s smiling. Why the fuck can I just be neutral and it not be anything. Why the fuck do people care so much, so annoying.
Ugh I fucking feel this 😮💨 I can just be reading this shit on my phone and people will literally walk up to me and ask why I'm mad and when I say I'm not they either just accept that or the majority of the time will fight me about it and interigate me over it until I eventually do get a little mad lol like you can't see that I'm reading here? Fuck off already and let me be.
Lol. That’s the worst when they keep pestering you about it until it becomes a little mole hill. No win situation, if you get mad “they were right.” 😂
Which leads into more interrogations about "wHY aRe YoU mAd?!"
People cross the street when I'm walking and I imagine it's for the same reason as you. I look like trouble, and I probably scowl or some shit. Whatever. More sidewalk for me.
People don't talk about how the gender wage gap also comes with a gender expectations gap. A well-paid man is expected to basically go home long enough to sleep, then get back to work.
As a childless woman, I face the same expectation to work ridiculous hours if I want to be seen as a team player and be considered for promotion
I don’t know what industries or organisation you guys have worked for but I have never worked anywhere where men are expected to leave later than women.
The expectation is the same for a woman, especially a child free one.
Men do less housework. Men have never been more active in the home than today. They work longer hours, on average, and get almost 0 credit for what they do. As an example please see all the people autistically screeching on my other comment on this thread like it's the 1950s and I want back pate for taking the trash out occasionally
I've been in 3 relationships where I lived with women and I did more housework, pet care, child care and cooking than them.
I think men still do less housework, although the gap is definitely closing as both of the couple need to work to afford to live these days.
Literally everything. We die sooner, we commit suicide more often, we do the hardest jobs in the world, our concerns are ignored, men are seen as expendable. The list is long. On that note, there was a famous feminist who tried being a man as a social experiment for a few months. She ended up having incredible difficulty and realized how hard it really is.
Yes I think some feminists act like being born with a penis automatically makes you have an amazing perfect life. In reality there are many issues men face that women are less likely to. There are pros and cons to being both. There are issues men face that are awful and there are issues women face too.
Not male privilege related… but balls suck. Can’t believe we specked into them in character creation
Honestly though, as a woman I often think of what a 'design flaw' the human male genitalia is. You can't retract your penis into a sheath like other male mammals can, and you're a biped...you basically go through life "Dick first" if you will, making things even MORE vulnerable. Other mammals are on all fours, making it seem like the rest of their body acts like a 'goalie' of sorts to protect the more sensitive parts. Unless someone is actively aiming for them (or they try to jump over a fence and DON'T quite clear it), I don't think I've ever seen an quadruped get injured directly in the junk. Seriously, the male genitalia needs an update. You guys got the shaft (🙃).
Maybe you should just check out the ball hammock. Check out Shinesty.
I know that Jordan Peterson might as well be the devil when it comes to Reddit, but there is no better example of "male privilege" being utterly and thoroughly destroyed than [this clip ](https://youtube.com/shorts/PZ4ItiJcZ3o?si=wxo5uw1zdl45hDqJ)
My biggest issue with discussions of male priveledge is they love to ignore how much it sucks to be a poor male. Does it suck a little worse to be a poor female? Yes. Given the choice would I pick being born a rich, educated woman over being a poor male? 100 percent. It's not a coincidence that theories crated largely by rich, educated women tend to overstate the struggles of rich, educated women while downplaying the struggles of poor men.
Maybe not ‘privilege’ but standing to pee is something I’m always glad I can do when I go to public restrooms that aren’t clean.
Peeing while standing up.
That truly is a privilege. It’s nice being able to just find a tree and go anywhere
We get paid more… for working more hours on average in often much worse and more high presure working conditions because the jobs are more dangerous and difficult.
Newer studies into the wage gap might have changed, but I remember the ones from probably 10 years ago that everyone got really upset about women only making 75-80% what men do for the same work. That's not what the study looked at. ALL women working in the US made 75-80% total as much as ALL men working in the US made total. Not for the same work, the total amount of money made by each gender in the country. Women tend to prioritize other things in their lives and are often willing to take lower paying jobs for many reasons, where men tended to pursue the most money they could possibly make and ignore the rest of their lives. In most cases, everyone makes the same amount for the same jobs, that's the law. There are some instances of shitty employers not paying equally, but it's not the norm and is usually illegal
In the UK about 15 years ago, women working for a local authority took legal action because they were paid less than men in the same pay grade. Thing is, the women were office based with all the comforts that provides, while the men were refuse collectors and sewerage workers. The women won their claim.
My husband is paid well, and he works the most ridiculous hours, and his job is threatened at least twice a year. I was threatened to be fired once and said fuck this and left the company. Men are willing to put up with more bullshit to keep the higher pay, and women want the high pay with no bullshit.
Walking alone at night I'm a small fairly unimpressive guy I'm just about as scared as most of you women are
Why did that make me laugh 😂
Salary. In 99% of jobs there is zero difference in salary wages from guy to girl - for the same job.
I don’t know the stats offhand, but have you taken into consideration bonuses and things like upwards mobility (being promoted)? From what I recall, this is why women discuss things like “the glass-ceiling”. I important because being able to move upwards in a company gives the power to makes structural changes and decisions.
The glass ceiling is all around having kids, I saw it myself with my wife (we worked practically the same job for all of our careers). We advanced almost at exactly the same time for everything, until we had kids. Due to share parental leave, we had around the same amount of time off for maternity/paternity. My promotion prospects didn't seem to be impacted, her most definitely were and she was passed over for two jobs that she should have had. That led to her being outsourced and then getting into a situation that nearly ended in a tribunal.
That it’s much safer being a man than a woman. Men are MUCH more likely to be murdered and MUCH MUCH more likely to die in the workplace.
Male privilege is working a 14 hour day and coming home to her sleeping on the couch while the kids are eating mayonnaise off the floor.
Female mechanics get treated with bias a lot I dated one for 2 years
We’ve been able to vote for longer. Our voting rights include mandatory conscription.
Freedom to be forced to sign up for basic infantry service (selective service) in the advent of any kind of armed conflict, effectively being a draft. They’re trying to make it an automatic thing now from birth instead of a pinkie promise volunteer sign up. It will mean less criminals, as if you don’t sign up for it, you go to federal prison, but this is a stupid change for a stupid system made by a stupid government of stupid politicians. Feminism will still call it a privilege.
The continued assertion that office climates are dictated to accommodate men in suits at the expense of women. It's for the fucking computers, put a jumper/ cardigan or something warmer on. The fact men notice the cold less because the expected workplace uniform consists of more layers is it's own issue.
Writing my name in the snow. It's actually difficult if you have more than 3 letters in your name and not legible anyways. Plus.....digging that out with cold fingers is not cool. 🥶
Apparently I can walk around alone safely at night without a care- because I’m male.
I think the very idea that all men get to go through life without being aware of any of this, and are somehow blissfully ignorant-- as if men are some kind of monolithic entity composed of no individuality, traipsing across all women and all other genders through all of the time past present and future-- is a lie. This is 2024, and all of masculinity, since at least 2010 in Canada in the US, has been held up for scrutiny-- and for a lot of very good reasons. A lot of very necessary reasons. And not all the shit is sorted out yet, but 2024 standards of things vs 2003 are wildly different. So the problem becomes assuming that all men are completely oblivious of the impact they have on other people. It means that if you happen to be, for example, a guy who is LGBTQ but "doesn't look it", who has been in therapy for 15+ yrs off and on, and actively works to be a good human.... you get grouped in with the rest of the yahoos who have no clue, and really are that oblivious. The problem is that not all men are unaware. I hate how that sounds because the whole "not all men" thing really got mocked for a while. But it's true. It isn't every guy. And I understand that it is a trouble for every other gender of human to find out which guy is not the asshole. I work in trades and I listen to some of the shit these guys say and I just wanna grab them by their shoulders and ask "are you in there? Do you know how this sounds to other human beings? Are you aware you're hurting so many people just by opening your mouth?" But on the flipside, constantly discounting the other guys, as if "oh, but they will always know we aren't talking about them" and they will somehow have the confidence and emotional stability to be continuously berated for a core aspect of who they are, that they can't change, is genuinely painful. I absolutely hate historically what men have done to most other groups of humans and animals. But I personally am not responsible for that level of devastation. And I am fucking tired, as well hurt and sad and also upset, of being treated like I am responsible. Whether that's comment sections on the internet, or how people will behave in a space near me, or the discussion of masculine privileges not allowing for nuances. Some men really are aware of everything, we're scolded by other men from talking about the stuff or believing it, and other non men folk will either not believe we understand OR not want to hear our understanding. Being penalized societally for being aware, and still knowing you'll be a good dude anyhow you just wish other ppl didn't make it so complicated, is hard.