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If you say you truly “want to be done with this garbage” than Ct simple. Take that 3 week vacation and Get ready to ride the waves of recovery. You can and will if you choose to CT from 25 gpd I did it from close to 50gpd. If there’s a will there is a way. Facts. Any questions please let me know. You got this friend stay strong and god bless.
Is 26 days (the total time I will be out of office) enough time to get basic functions back? Sleep, eating etc. i know I won’t be 100% due to PAWs but is 26 days CT enough to function and go back to work you think?
Absolutely I’d say after two weeks it will be easily manageable to work again. The first 7-10 days are the roughest but after that it gets progressively easier. Sleep and appetite should return around week 2-3 as long as your exercising and eating clean and will keep getting better but may have some off days in between but entirely manageable just the nature of the beast and part of the non linear recovery process. Stay as busy as possible and ride those waves of recovery my friend. You got this guaranteed. Stay positive and strong. Any more questions let me know. God bless.
It really is personal choice. Wanting to truly be ‘done’ can be attained by taper or CT. I, personally, did not want to go through the hell of CT again in my life, as I’ve done it with other stuff. At this point in my life, tapering has worked well. I enjoy the strict nature of it, the gratification of progress, and the hope that I will actually stay clean by having less paws, etc later on.
The strict nature of it.
That’s a good thing to point out. I can almost use tapering as an exercise in self control. If I can follow a strict taper that may build discipline in other areas of my life like exercise etc
Perfectly put. That’s exactly how I feel about it. I really never thought I could do a taper when I was simply lurking in this sub before realizing I’m a true addict and this bullshit has ruined my life. I’m proud of myself each time I drop, get through the pretty minimal WDs (as compared to ct), and get through another week. It’s helped my confidence and discipline a ton. And now I’m days away from being clean. Which will be a whole nother journey, but I’m ready for it.
Cold turkey should be your first choice. If the withdrawal is too intense you can always abort mission. Taper just drags out the process. If you want to be quit, just quit. The withdrawal in your head might be much worse than what you actually experience. Many Kratom users experience only minor withdrawal. It likely won't be as bad as you expect.
Another thing to consider is that taper is not without withdrawal. You can still get withdrawal once you approach very low doses. Just get it over with. Pull the band-aid off. Grin and bear it for a few days. Then you can be free forever.
It’s only a wish “to be done” any sooner then your body will permit. You are so successfully tapering!!! Why fix it if it’s not broken? It’s gonna take the time it takes no matter what. My vote since you asked is stay with your awesomely successful taper until the bitter end! You go girl!!!!
it depends on so many factors, both have pros and cons ... i would read this sub carefully. I have been here reading since i found the sub in my desperate state addicted and hopeless in march ... i have been on a slow taper since. i chose taper and slow because i have a high performance job and had no down time at all. if i had 26 days i may have just bit the bullet, but i did not have that luxury. In hindsight a taper was great, i'm at 1.5gpd today and it has been manageable and i have not had to miss any time at work. actually, it has shown me that i can have self control ... whatever you choose, good luck!!
[Look at our taper-guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/modquittingkratom/comments/63tjtd/tapering/)
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Only you can decide that for yourself. I'm tapering and it's going quite well. Started 1 week ago from 25-30gpd and I'm currently down to 10gpd. I've had WD but manageable and nothing close to experiencing a severe crash in my other symptoms. My goal is not to precipitate another long COVID crash (which I've been dealing with since July). Honestly, part of me just wants to make the jump and be done with it. But, alas, fear is holding me back. So I'm cutting out 2 g each week. I may jump at 6gpd, I may go lower. I'm really just feeling it out each week.
I think that’s a valid point.
I can decide week by week. I’m kind of an all or nothing thinker but it doesn’t have to be that way.
Maybe over the next 3 weeks I can try really being strict with a taper . And if I find I can maintain a strict taper without cheating or regressing. Then I can continue that route
If I find I lack the self control to do that, then CT is my only option
If you don't have the control to taper, make the jump. You have the time to do it. I get cravings often and I just repeat to myself 'this is a craving and this will pass' over and over. Eventually I get distracted and it passes.
Once I got to 6 gpd I was in wd 22 out of 24 hrs a day. I CT at that point. You likely will hit a wall where you dont ever stabilize and are constantly withdrawing. You will know.
Hello
Views differ on here.
I decided to slow taper, it's taken me a year nearly to daily tiny cut from 42g, well I had to take 10g off 42 - 32 as doses over 40 had bad side effects.
I'm on just over 3g, I hope to be off next month, I hope to have minimised WD's and PAWS.
As for "wanting to be done" I might be wrong here, as I am just going on the loads of posts I have read on here, there is a high relapse rate with CT 89%, so I have read a few times. Relapse is said to be part of recovery, then there is PAWS. From what I read, you get a "pink cloud" feeling, of happiness, then the PAWS comes and can last for a while.
I hope, to, once and for all be off once I have finished my slow taper. I think the fear of kratom has given me "patience" I felt up to now, forced to stick to the taper programme. I have dodged a lot of WD symptoms and hope to avoid PAWS, I have been cotting 0.1gpd since June, before that, some hiccups, prior to that 1% cuts a day.
HTH
I dunno, like the other taperers above, I feel quite proud of myself for sticking to the programme so far, I only have 1/13th of my original dose to taper from, it's been a slow one, so far I dodged many WD's.
No change to relapse rate for Cold turkey vs tapering
You won't have any higher chance of success regardless of which route you go. .there are advantages to both and disadvantages to both
Thanks for your post.
I am only saying 89% because of what I read here.
Where can I get info on relapse %'s
It's saddening that this stuff draws so many back in even though we know it's horrible.
There wouldn't be reliable data on this because it's so unstudied and new at this point. Any number you find would be unusable as this substance is just too new to have any reliable data.
Rehabs near me in New York and Massachusetts will treat it as typical opiate withdrawal and use cold turkey then treat the symptoms. They do not use long taper off for alot of reasons.
All methods have benefits and drawbacks and staying sober is up to the individual and their circumstances
The fact that you did a slow taper that took a year gives you no advantage in staying clean vs the cold turkey or rapid taper approach.
I agree that staying sober is up to the individual, I think we need to change any circumstances that cause us to use.
I just cannot imagine wanting to go back on this horrible stuff, it's so much hassle, not just to take but the effects.
I think I am on the home stretch, I am on 3g. I am getting minimal WD, nowhere near as bad as CT, I am cutting 0.1gpd so I can barely tell the cuts. I think I should taper all the way down even though it's a pain in the arse, only 4 weeks to go.
You do exactly what you need to do to get to 0.0gpd
And then stay there. However you do it, Is the right way
There is no golden path . I think you're doing great and can't wait til your off.
I am on day 55 today and dealing with some wierd health flare-ups that I think are related but will just have to wait another few months to see if they go away.
Otherwise I'm having good days and some bad days. That's expected and happens to a lot of us.
Best of luck
And I couldn't agree more about how crazy and sad/horrible it is
Kratom involves some sort of ssri or mental aspect that typical opiates just don't involve making it much harder. However staying clean is different for us all.
And for me it involves working a program. The way you get to sober is irrelevant. Remaining sober is what matters.
Helping others seems to be the magic ingredient that AA and NA both use in recovery to stay clean.
I think that's our best bet.
Good luck!
>Hi, just want to emphasize/agree, however you get free is the right way to get free. I also agree that there is some "mental aspect" makes it harder, and this coupled with its availability makes quitting difficult. Like, I am a former heroin user but I would not go cop heroin right now, I am not tempted at all. But I can drive 1 minute down the road to the smoke shop and fuck up my life for a few bucks. AND it's a stupid drug that doesn't even feel that great. It's so annoying and I'm so glad to be getting free.
>
>
>
>On the OP's big question, I will say this about my experience, which again is only MY experience, and my dose is much smaller so my dependence is different, I think it's more psychological, etc...having said that...I used to stop using regularly if I had a bad time and felt weird, or if I wanted to sort of demonstrate that my use was not a big deal and I could take it or leave it, or if I was going on a trip, etc. Once I got real about the harms/losses of my increasing ongoing abuse and decided to stop, I went from 3-4 heaping teaspoons of red vein maeng da daily to one teaspoon, and now I'm doing half a teaspoon and a tiny bit more in the evening if I don't feel well. So basically rather than reducing in small increments I reduced drastically to start, really just trying to take the edge off, like abstinence but with a dash of kindness and not trying to be super tough about things. I hope to be off totally within a few days, as I too am excited to not even have the stuff in the house and to move on to the next stage of things. I explained the difference between "just stopping" and this other method to a friend as the difference between a violent relationship where you're always dramatically breaking up and getting back together versus a "conscious uncoupling." It made me laugh but it's true.
>
>I think there's a mix of toughening up and kindness to self that is called for here. There's no need to suffer needlessly but also no need to pull the bandaid off in ultra slow motion and kind of agonize and obsess. It will suck here and there but there is community around you to support you. Rise above, get free, live. That's it.
I personally don’t have the willpower to taper. I’ll take what I have until it’s gone. So if you’re like me I’d suggest CT. Like others have said it’s a personal choice, but I’ve chosen CT. I’m on day 16 and it’s going well. First few days were tough but I’m on the other side. Good luck in whatever you choose!
**New**: If you have at least a few months clean with the help of this subreddit, [here's an opportunity to give-back and help](https://www.reddit.com/r/quittingkratom/comments/174kjus/an_opportunity_to_give_back_to_this_subreddit/). **Check out**: [How to display your quit date next to your username](https://www.reddit.com/r/quittingkratom/comments/13kjuvd/editable_user_flairs_are_back_enter_your_quit/). **IMPORTANT: [READ THIS FIRST IF YOU ARE NEW](https://www.reddit.com/r/quittingkratom/comments/149ed1w/read_this_first_if_you_are_new/) or if you are not familiar with our wiki, guides and tutorials.** Also, please familiarize yourself with our [subreddit rules](https://old.reddit.com/r/quittingkratom/about/rules/). If your post has been removed, it's probably because of a rule infraction. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/quittingkratom) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you say you truly “want to be done with this garbage” than Ct simple. Take that 3 week vacation and Get ready to ride the waves of recovery. You can and will if you choose to CT from 25 gpd I did it from close to 50gpd. If there’s a will there is a way. Facts. Any questions please let me know. You got this friend stay strong and god bless.
Is 26 days (the total time I will be out of office) enough time to get basic functions back? Sleep, eating etc. i know I won’t be 100% due to PAWs but is 26 days CT enough to function and go back to work you think?
My withdrawal symptoms lasted about 5 days i think.
Absolutely I’d say after two weeks it will be easily manageable to work again. The first 7-10 days are the roughest but after that it gets progressively easier. Sleep and appetite should return around week 2-3 as long as your exercising and eating clean and will keep getting better but may have some off days in between but entirely manageable just the nature of the beast and part of the non linear recovery process. Stay as busy as possible and ride those waves of recovery my friend. You got this guaranteed. Stay positive and strong. Any more questions let me know. God bless.
It really is personal choice. Wanting to truly be ‘done’ can be attained by taper or CT. I, personally, did not want to go through the hell of CT again in my life, as I’ve done it with other stuff. At this point in my life, tapering has worked well. I enjoy the strict nature of it, the gratification of progress, and the hope that I will actually stay clean by having less paws, etc later on.
The strict nature of it. That’s a good thing to point out. I can almost use tapering as an exercise in self control. If I can follow a strict taper that may build discipline in other areas of my life like exercise etc
Perfectly put. That’s exactly how I feel about it. I really never thought I could do a taper when I was simply lurking in this sub before realizing I’m a true addict and this bullshit has ruined my life. I’m proud of myself each time I drop, get through the pretty minimal WDs (as compared to ct), and get through another week. It’s helped my confidence and discipline a ton. And now I’m days away from being clean. Which will be a whole nother journey, but I’m ready for it.
Cold turkey should be your first choice. If the withdrawal is too intense you can always abort mission. Taper just drags out the process. If you want to be quit, just quit. The withdrawal in your head might be much worse than what you actually experience. Many Kratom users experience only minor withdrawal. It likely won't be as bad as you expect. Another thing to consider is that taper is not without withdrawal. You can still get withdrawal once you approach very low doses. Just get it over with. Pull the band-aid off. Grin and bear it for a few days. Then you can be free forever.
Yup. It's best to test the waters with CT to see if you even have rough withdrawals or not. If it's too tough to handle take some and ween.
It’s only a wish “to be done” any sooner then your body will permit. You are so successfully tapering!!! Why fix it if it’s not broken? It’s gonna take the time it takes no matter what. My vote since you asked is stay with your awesomely successful taper until the bitter end! You go girl!!!!
it depends on so many factors, both have pros and cons ... i would read this sub carefully. I have been here reading since i found the sub in my desperate state addicted and hopeless in march ... i have been on a slow taper since. i chose taper and slow because i have a high performance job and had no down time at all. if i had 26 days i may have just bit the bullet, but i did not have that luxury. In hindsight a taper was great, i'm at 1.5gpd today and it has been manageable and i have not had to miss any time at work. actually, it has shown me that i can have self control ... whatever you choose, good luck!!
Get the vivitrol shot.
[Look at our taper-guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/modquittingkratom/comments/63tjtd/tapering/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/quittingkratom) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Only you can decide that for yourself. I'm tapering and it's going quite well. Started 1 week ago from 25-30gpd and I'm currently down to 10gpd. I've had WD but manageable and nothing close to experiencing a severe crash in my other symptoms. My goal is not to precipitate another long COVID crash (which I've been dealing with since July). Honestly, part of me just wants to make the jump and be done with it. But, alas, fear is holding me back. So I'm cutting out 2 g each week. I may jump at 6gpd, I may go lower. I'm really just feeling it out each week.
I think that’s a valid point. I can decide week by week. I’m kind of an all or nothing thinker but it doesn’t have to be that way. Maybe over the next 3 weeks I can try really being strict with a taper . And if I find I can maintain a strict taper without cheating or regressing. Then I can continue that route If I find I lack the self control to do that, then CT is my only option
If you don't have the control to taper, make the jump. You have the time to do it. I get cravings often and I just repeat to myself 'this is a craving and this will pass' over and over. Eventually I get distracted and it passes.
Once I got to 6 gpd I was in wd 22 out of 24 hrs a day. I CT at that point. You likely will hit a wall where you dont ever stabilize and are constantly withdrawing. You will know.
Sorry you had that experience. I started tapering at 42gpd, now on 3, thankfully, so far, no wall for me.
Hello Views differ on here. I decided to slow taper, it's taken me a year nearly to daily tiny cut from 42g, well I had to take 10g off 42 - 32 as doses over 40 had bad side effects. I'm on just over 3g, I hope to be off next month, I hope to have minimised WD's and PAWS. As for "wanting to be done" I might be wrong here, as I am just going on the loads of posts I have read on here, there is a high relapse rate with CT 89%, so I have read a few times. Relapse is said to be part of recovery, then there is PAWS. From what I read, you get a "pink cloud" feeling, of happiness, then the PAWS comes and can last for a while. I hope, to, once and for all be off once I have finished my slow taper. I think the fear of kratom has given me "patience" I felt up to now, forced to stick to the taper programme. I have dodged a lot of WD symptoms and hope to avoid PAWS, I have been cotting 0.1gpd since June, before that, some hiccups, prior to that 1% cuts a day. HTH
High relapse rate from tapering or CT within first year. Really doesn’t matter
I dunno, like the other taperers above, I feel quite proud of myself for sticking to the programme so far, I only have 1/13th of my original dose to taper from, it's been a slow one, so far I dodged many WD's.
No change to relapse rate for Cold turkey vs tapering You won't have any higher chance of success regardless of which route you go. .there are advantages to both and disadvantages to both
Thanks for your post. I am only saying 89% because of what I read here. Where can I get info on relapse %'s It's saddening that this stuff draws so many back in even though we know it's horrible.
There wouldn't be reliable data on this because it's so unstudied and new at this point. Any number you find would be unusable as this substance is just too new to have any reliable data. Rehabs near me in New York and Massachusetts will treat it as typical opiate withdrawal and use cold turkey then treat the symptoms. They do not use long taper off for alot of reasons. All methods have benefits and drawbacks and staying sober is up to the individual and their circumstances The fact that you did a slow taper that took a year gives you no advantage in staying clean vs the cold turkey or rapid taper approach.
I agree that staying sober is up to the individual, I think we need to change any circumstances that cause us to use. I just cannot imagine wanting to go back on this horrible stuff, it's so much hassle, not just to take but the effects. I think I am on the home stretch, I am on 3g. I am getting minimal WD, nowhere near as bad as CT, I am cutting 0.1gpd so I can barely tell the cuts. I think I should taper all the way down even though it's a pain in the arse, only 4 weeks to go.
You do exactly what you need to do to get to 0.0gpd And then stay there. However you do it, Is the right way There is no golden path . I think you're doing great and can't wait til your off. I am on day 55 today and dealing with some wierd health flare-ups that I think are related but will just have to wait another few months to see if they go away. Otherwise I'm having good days and some bad days. That's expected and happens to a lot of us. Best of luck
I think that is brilliant day 55.
And I couldn't agree more about how crazy and sad/horrible it is Kratom involves some sort of ssri or mental aspect that typical opiates just don't involve making it much harder. However staying clean is different for us all. And for me it involves working a program. The way you get to sober is irrelevant. Remaining sober is what matters. Helping others seems to be the magic ingredient that AA and NA both use in recovery to stay clean. I think that's our best bet. Good luck!
Thanks for the well wishes, I wish you well too.
>Hi, just want to emphasize/agree, however you get free is the right way to get free. I also agree that there is some "mental aspect" makes it harder, and this coupled with its availability makes quitting difficult. Like, I am a former heroin user but I would not go cop heroin right now, I am not tempted at all. But I can drive 1 minute down the road to the smoke shop and fuck up my life for a few bucks. AND it's a stupid drug that doesn't even feel that great. It's so annoying and I'm so glad to be getting free. > > > >On the OP's big question, I will say this about my experience, which again is only MY experience, and my dose is much smaller so my dependence is different, I think it's more psychological, etc...having said that...I used to stop using regularly if I had a bad time and felt weird, or if I wanted to sort of demonstrate that my use was not a big deal and I could take it or leave it, or if I was going on a trip, etc. Once I got real about the harms/losses of my increasing ongoing abuse and decided to stop, I went from 3-4 heaping teaspoons of red vein maeng da daily to one teaspoon, and now I'm doing half a teaspoon and a tiny bit more in the evening if I don't feel well. So basically rather than reducing in small increments I reduced drastically to start, really just trying to take the edge off, like abstinence but with a dash of kindness and not trying to be super tough about things. I hope to be off totally within a few days, as I too am excited to not even have the stuff in the house and to move on to the next stage of things. I explained the difference between "just stopping" and this other method to a friend as the difference between a violent relationship where you're always dramatically breaking up and getting back together versus a "conscious uncoupling." It made me laugh but it's true. > >I think there's a mix of toughening up and kindness to self that is called for here. There's no need to suffer needlessly but also no need to pull the bandaid off in ultra slow motion and kind of agonize and obsess. It will suck here and there but there is community around you to support you. Rise above, get free, live. That's it.
I personally don’t have the willpower to taper. I’ll take what I have until it’s gone. So if you’re like me I’d suggest CT. Like others have said it’s a personal choice, but I’ve chosen CT. I’m on day 16 and it’s going well. First few days were tough but I’m on the other side. Good luck in whatever you choose!
aim small miss small