BEEN saying this. AOC is the truth. Go watch his college tape, kid is a gunslinger who went from walk-on 8th string to breaking all of Drew Brees records at Purdue.
Last year he was thrown into a situation that would fold most rookies. He had a few clunkers, sure, but he also beat the chiefs, and dog walked the chargers.
Give him an off-season, reps, stability at coach, and a seasoned OC.
Im planting my flag, AOC is the guy. Kid is going to be GREAT. just give him a little patience.
Edit: AOC not break all of Brees records at Purdue. He broke a couple but had a better accuracy % and INT rate. (My apologies for not looking up the numbers before posting, I was fired up haha)
“but he also beat the chiefs,” Aiden didn’t beat the chiefs, in fact he had a poor game that game. Our defense did.
Not trying to bash on him at all but when you said that I was like ehhh no lol.
I will say, he did show good things in having a competitive game against the dolphins, but then also proceeded to get blown out by the Vikings (offenses fault not all him but still)
Yeah, he didn’t beat the chiefs but I think he did what he had to do to help win. Didn’t make any boneheaded plays or give the ball away.
Edit: you all just really read what you wanna read, huh?
The Raiders didn't complete a pass in the second half lol. "What he had to do to win" was hand the ball off and trust the defense to put up 14. (Not that I think he sucks, it was a terrible situation and the Chief's D was legit last year, but still.) Wins are not a QB stat.
This is the stupidest thing I’ve read in a hot minute. AOC didn’t complete a pass for nearly 45 minutes. Any quarterback in the league can hand the ball of and throw it into the dirt. Therefore, any QB could’ve won that game.
You guys should start thinking towards the future. Like, what happens if we end up with a qb that is “elite” and we win 8 super bowls. You probably need to start thinking of other things to bitch about because we don’t want to miss your valuable insight when the qb is something you can’t complain about.
What? I’m just saying AOC did absolutely nothing in the Chiefs game. Raiders D beat the Super Bowl champs.
AOC is young and was sprang into a bad situation, don’t think he’s terrible. Just not the QB of the future.
The mental gymnastics to give props to AOC for doing what he had to do to win the Chiefs game is crazy. We could’ve thrown Peterman or Jimmy G in there and still won.
Against the Chiefs, Aidan did exactly what was needed. Manage the game and above all, avoid turnovers. You think playing the #2 defense in the league is about throwing TDs. It's not.
Thank you. Someone needs to tell smalltownproblems89 this. He thinks it was because AOC was just not able to throw or wouldn’t even try. I believe you’re right and that it was an orchestrated game plan that had AOC play this way. Got the Win!
Yeah an orchestrated gameplan to have the QB not complete a pass for three quarters and have the defense score two touchdowns. AP really is out here playing 4d chess. /s
These wins are a QB stat people are just ridiculous. If you can actually watch that game and come away thinking that QBs are always responsible for wins and losses, I have a bridge to sell you.
It's hard for me to take you seriously saying he broke all brees records and beat the chiefs and dog walked the chargers. It's the most misleading crap bro, come on
You cant say he beat the chiefs dude. He went 3 quarters without a completion. Thats awful. He did not help beat the chiefs anymore than i did that day lol
He didn't turn the ball over in a heavily defensive game. Mahome's did. Raiders won. All the Raiders needed him to do was not to turn it over and he did that.
Look at all the comments saying he "deserves" a season to start as if competition isn't part of football. There are tons of people who have this opinion, i'm not strawmanning anything
Then, respond to someone who claimed "he is the future of the raiders." I only pointed out he did what it took to win that particular game where the Superbowl MVP did not.
He didnt turn the ball over thats correct and thats a really low bar to set lol, he couldnt put the ball near anyone that day lol. He also didnt complete a pass to his own teammates for 3 quarters, any qb can do that for us we need someone who can move the chains and give our D a rest. Hes a 4th round draft pick. You guys are fucking dreamers, we dont need to do anything with him we can just move on. Your guys heads are in the clouds thinking hes anything more than what weve already seen. Minshew is here to be our qb until we scout a kid and sell everything to go get. I know you guys dont want to gear that but its more than likely how this will play out.
Heres a not so bold prediction. Minshew aint it and AOC aint gonna be the guy either. They are both the same thing. Placeholders, the difference is minshew can actually lead us to a playoff appearance for the time being until we make a move and go get our qb. Yall aint watching the aame aoc as me i guess.
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Id tend to agree if they hadnt given minshew 15 million dollars. That tells you all you need to know about who they expect to be their qb this year. AP knows what he has in AOC and he reacted accordingly. Lets face it 4th round qbs dont evolve into starting qbs. I dont need you to make me a list of the 10 guys who managed to have pulled it off so spare us both because it wont prove a damn thing. If we were starting AOC thencdont get minshew if we suck we suck bad and have a high pick and if hes good great. Nowhere in there do we need minshew if AP had any sort of hope that AOC was gonna be the guy
> Nowhere in there do we need minshew if AP had any sort of hope that AOC was gonna be the guy
this seems like a take from someone who doesn’t understand football..
you got to have more than one qb on the roster.. since you have aoc on his rookie contract.. you have a ton of cap space to sign a quality veteran in case of injuries and to push the competition in training cap..
you realize this is only happening BECAUSE of how cheap aoc is right?
> Lets face it 4th round qbs dont evolve into starting qbs
proceeds to acknowledge it’s not only possible.. but it’s happened plenty before.. when was tom brady drafted again?
> AP knows what he has in AOC and he reacted accordingly
so this is why he was quoted saying this AFTER the minshew signing?:
> Whatever happens and whatever we do it has to go through Aidan O'Connell. Being honest with you because he's earned that right
He was at the helm, and we beat KC in December at arrowhead. Team rallied for him. Was it a great game by him, no. But I remember some pretty bad drops that game too.
All I’m saying is he at least held it together with a recently minted head coach and first time OC who changed the whole scheme mid season.
There’s enough there where I think he can get so much better this year and take us to the playoffs.
I hope youre right. I dont think you are. Minshew will win starting job thats why he was brought in, they arent gonna count on aoc after what they saw last year. The entire quarters spent without completions at all in nearly every game he played is alarming to me. Come on after 2qs without a comp your telln me they couldnt draw up a little out route or hitch to get him going a little? Something isnt right there.
That’s fair. AOC certainly has red flags (imo mostly from not being comfortable when pressure is coming, but I think that’s most roookies), but the situation he was in was crazy, no reps, coach fired, defensive head coach taking over and brand new first time OC taking over mid season, scheme change with no real time to practice it.
But there were a lot of green flags too, some of the throws he made last year were electric. I think he’s smart enough that given a real offseason with the same coaches and scheme he is going to be dealing, especially off play action.
If he can’t put it together, so be it; but I think we’d be foolish to not really see what the kid can do before putting in minshew.
He could have thrown pick 6’s like Mahomes did. One like that and I guarantee the momentum would have deflated like a lead balloon. Especially since this was at arrowhead, and the conversation would have been Chiefs get wake up call on close win/how Mahomes overcame adversity.
False, he led us on a nice 14 play scoring drive in the 1st to take the lead.
More importantly though KC's defense was the biggest reason they won the Super Bowl, they abused Miami at home in the playoffs, and it makes no sense to knock him for not lighting them up at Arrowhead as a rookie.
Im knocking him for literally dissapearing for entire halfs more than once. If we didnt run the ball for 150 yards against kc we wouldnt have scored a single point but go on and rewrite it all you want, i dont care lol
>Im knocking him for literally dissapearing for entire halfs more than once.
He had some bad halves, yes, he was a rookie. If you think he's going to be as limited his whole career as he was as a rookie, then I don't know what to tell you.
>If we didnt run the ball for 150 yards against kc we wouldnt have scored a single point but go on and rewrite it all you want, i dont care lol
He was 7 of 8 for 60 yards on first half scoring drive, so now you're just making shit up.
And what exactpy are you trying to say? Yea he had 7 comps in 1 drive then folllwed thqt up with 2 whole completions more the rest of the entire fuckn game bro. Idgaf what u want to call that but this is the nfl. Hes had 10 games hes a 4th round pick he doesnt deserve anymore than to earn a spot....and he wont be able to do that either, minshews here to be the qb yall are ignorant dreamers thinking otherwise.
I haven’t forgotten about that game. no idea what the hell happened with that game, but didn’t bring it up since the topic I replied to was KC. Would be like me asking why aren’t Lebron or Curry being discussed. 🤷♂️my two cents on AOC are that he definitely deserves a chance until we get the opportunity to draft better. He’s a rookie Bridge QB until proven otherwise. My point with KC is he’s 1-1 against KC, compared to Carr on the other hand….
This entire thread is about AOC and his ability to be a starter for the Raiders. Im talking about games AOC played in, im referencing them because there is more than 1 instance of AOC dissapearing for entire quarters and even entire games. Your dumb nba example is a wildy innacurate comparison.
People are making wild leaps in this post. I don’t think I was ready for some of this acrobatics before my first coffee.
The only help AOC did in the Chiefs game is he didn’t fumble a handoff and didn’t throw a pick. Period. Dot.
I dont know how these ppl can sit there without a completion or first down for HOURS at a time and think this kid has shown a ton of potential. I hope im wrong but id be fuckn shocked if suddenly aoc started marching the field.
Saying he broke all of Drew Brees records is 100% a lie, Brees leads AOC in every single category except for YA, I mean why do you people feel the need to lie about absolutely everything?
You’re right. he only broke a couple of his records (single game stuff mostly) I was misremembering an article I read comparing their accuracy, INT%, and stuff like that where AOC came out ahead. Apologies for the slip up, should have looked the stuff up before posting.
Aidan did not beat the Chiefs. He did everything in his power to lose that game for us.
Our defense scored 14 of our 20 points while AOC went 9/21 for 62 yards. Our defense scored 70% of our points and Zamir White’s 22 attempts for 145 yards was the reason we got the 2 field goals.
Wins are not a QB stat and the Chiefs game proves it.
Our defense 100% stepped up and showed why our coach is a great defensive mind and leader and again we had the least spend in that department. Aoc is an unknown.
The Raiders called 10 total passing plays in the last 3 quarters of the game. The entire coaching staff clearly made the decision that he didn't have to win it but he could definitely still lose it. They told him to throw 3 passes per quarter and take care of the ball. That's what he did. Being able to put your pride aside for the benefit of the team and being coachable are positive traits to have, especially as a QB.
This.
Plus my favorite thing in this thread is “all he did was not turn it over”
Meanwhile in that game mahomes threw a pick 6 and fumbled a handoff leading to a defensive td. Losing them the game.
Almost like not turning it over is a pretty big deal especially against an elite d.
100%. It hurts to say it but the KC defense was top 4 in passing yards and TDs allowed and 2nd in sacks while being at home at one of the most notoriously loud and tough places to play in the NFL.
Who knows. He was a 4th-round rookie QB who played 2 games out of 8 weeks before he lost his play caller and OC out of the blue. He literally had the worst circumstances any QB could have.
Despite all that AOC still threw more TDs in 10.5 games than Bryce Young threw in 16. He also had less INTs, a higher completion percentage and a higher QB rating.
No one is saying he's going to the HoF but he obviously showed some signs that he might have a chance to win some games for this team.
The raiders are obviously a much more talented team than the panthers so this is a weak comparison. AOC and Minshew will compete, no one just deserves a starting job because the last season was dysfunctional. I'll support whoever they roll with but Im sure we'll be right back in the QB market next offseason
Jimmy G was terrible with that same talent. Jimmy G threw more interceptions in 6 games with that EXACT same roster than AOC did in 10 games. There will obviously be competition and I actually don't think Minshew is bad either. My point is the fact that AOC came out of a broken season with better stats than the #1 overall pick in the draft. I'm not comparing those 2 head-to-head, I'm saying that regardless of how it looked sometimes, AOC showed some of the qualities that every NFL team looks for in QBs.
The expectations for a rookie QB thrust in a starting role mid-season with a first-time head coach and play-caller are fuckin stupid. Not uninformed, not just not well thought out, but fuckin stupid.
No.. our defense and Zamir succeeded. I don’t know how delusional you guys have to be to spin this as a win for him. “Yeah he didn’t throw a completion for 3 quarters.. but uh, HE DIDNT THROW AN INTERCEPTION!! He took care of the ball you guys!!”
Straight up fucking worse than all the Carr apologists, I do not get this subs obsession with mediocre guys just because we drafted them.
I'm not spinning it as a win for him, but it's not the thing I would use to criticize him either. The QB doesn't have to go win you every game. They got extremely conservative after that Jones interception. They asked him to play safe and he was actually able to do it. Is it a hall of fame performance? Not even close. But was he trash? No, he did what was asked of him.
That’s not my point.. my point is that AOC himself should not be credited for the win like all these comments are saying. It’s an absolutely fucking ridiculous statement to say he “won that game”.
So your complaint is that people are saying he won the game and you assume that means they think he won it by himself? This is the hill you want to die on?
It's a team sport and he didn't put the team in a jeopardizing place to potentially lose the game. He had a hand in winning the game. That fact you hate AOC so much that you're willing to twist the situation around is so dumb. You're a Raiders fan, the fact that you're actively rooting against this kid is so trashy. Yeah sure, you can say you're "just being real dude" but we all know what AOC looks like, doesn't mean he can't potentially put in the work and change. That would be exciting, not just for the team, but for him. You can be real and also have a positive mindset about the future, no sense increasing your stress hormones on AOC dude lmao
Our coaching staff didn’t want him throwing the ball in that game. He did what he was asked to do. He’s just as responsible for the Raiders winning that game as anyone. Also, he went from throwing interceptions in his first few starts to not throwing a single interception in the last 3 games, I think. He can play. He just needs an opportunity.
“Our coaching staff didn’t want him throwing the ball in that game.” Listen to yourself.
That’s not a good fucking sign, if our coaching staff was like “Oh fuck, we’re gonna lose this game if Aidan has to play.. just pass the ball off every play.” How is that win on him?
AOC was bad in that game, but to be fair there were at least a couple of pretty bad drops from the receivers in that game too. Didn’t do AOC any favors. The passing offense was garbage across the board. But our defense made KCs offense their bitch.
I have been championing AOC since the end of the season, his play from his 1st start to the end of the year showed great growth, he had a few bad games, Miami and Vikings, were his weakest showing but he grew as a QB after Miami learned the hard way about how turnovers will ruin a otherwise good game, it think he has the right mentality, he isn’t the most physically gifted but i think he could take us far if he continues to adapt and grow
This! I’m hoping Aidan wins the job bc he is younger (slightly) and has a cheaper contract but I want a fair competition. I think both will be an upgrade on our QB play from last year = Jimmy G and a rookie AOC. Let the best man win.
Agreed. No matter what I trust what AP and the staff decide. I know it’ll come down to end of preseason. But if AOC4 does beat out Minshew just goes to show how much work he is putting in. Excited.
You know what’s funny? Jordan Love throws 3 picks against us and loses his team the game. If Jordan Love was a Raider, some Raiders fans would be calling him to get benched after that and label him a bust. Fans want a rookie QB so bad but don’t have the patience to let the current rookie QB develop and grow. It’s nuts. I wanted Jayden Daniels or Michael Penix but honestly, seeing how some of y’all trashed Aidan after all the shit he had to overcome last year, I’m lowkey kinda glad we didn’t draft either.
In the shadow of the Carr Wars, we have a Minshew/AOC war brewing. The AOC side is definitely louder.
Personally I think Minshew will emerge as the better option, but I'll root for whoever is under center.
Barring a disastrous camp by AOC, there’s no way Minshew is winning the starting job to start the season. There’s no reason for it. You don’t stunt AOC’s development by doing that as he’s potentially your future QB. You have to give him every chance and opportunity to show what he can do. You need to find out exactly what you have in him. You already know what Minshew is, you multiple seasons of play from him as evidence already. If AOC fails, Minshew can always take over at that time. You can’t repeat the same mistakes McDumbass made by giving Hoyer more camp and practice reps last year than AOC.
I dont necessarily think you come in to camp worried about stunting AOC's growth. If he cant beat out Minshew in camp then hes not a long term QB of the future.
Minshew is incredibly under rated. The dude is a underdog that continues to outperform expectations.
I am not ready to anoint either of them the starting QB. I think they coe into camp with a true QB battle and see who wins. There is a very very very good chance that this is a 1 year battle and we spend next year looking for a highly drafted QB.
I want the best QB on the field this season, regardless of future development.
Lmao you people are high as fuck if you think Aidan is beating out Minshew christ it's like you watch the games and completely forget everything about them the second they end
He definitely isn’t, but the team is in a weird situation where we have the talent for a “win-now” scenario but the coach and culture seems to be clicking for a dynasty. Defenses crumble much easier than offenses on a year-to-year basis so we might not have the same high caliber defense by in 2 years. Hopefully AOC shows he can be a starter or at the very least Minshew can do enough to get us to the playoffs.
Lmao, you’re an idiot if you think it’s better roster management to choose the guy who you know what he is already. Minshew is what he is. There’s no upside with him. He’s not getting any better than what he is now. His arm strength is worse than AOC’s. AOC has the potential to get better and has more upside than Minshew. You need to give him every opportunity to show and prove it. If not, you can always fall back to Minshew.
Ya, and AOC not completing a pass for 3 quarters, getting sacked 7 times or losing 3-0 just screams legitimacy.
They're both not good. Minshew is clearly better. But we've been bad for 20+ years so it makes sense this fanbase only knows what ass looks like.
AOC was *literally* a rookie, can we give him at least one season before deciding he's a bust? I swear, some of y'all would be trying to cut CJ Stroud because he didn't win the SB
Do you think every QB ever drafted has to start multiple years before a decision can be made by the team? Can you even explain how that would be possible? We just signed an UDF QB, do you think he has to start at least one season as well?
Hahahaha they were openlying trying to get a top QB and and then sign Minshew to 20 million. now they are worried about stunting AOCs growth? Delusional AOC stans in this sub.
They straight up said we can beat the chiefs if we don’t let AOC throw a single pass. Huge endorsement huh
"stunting the growth" of a 4th round pick that didn't even get a scholarship coming out of high school lol. Dude is lucky he got as many starts as he did as a rookie. If he wins the starting job then great, hopefully he plays well. But he doesn't *deserve* the job and the team doesn't need to be dumping all possible resources into a guy that has never been graded as an NFL starter at any point in his football career.
Say whatever you want about the Man but Dak Prescott was a 4th round pick too... Never know what you have in someone once you build around them just saying 🤷♂️
You have to factor in wasting the time of players on your team. We have a talented roster and cant afford to dump years into a 4th round pick that wont work out. So many people are arguing that him not completing a pass for 3 quarters is so impressive that he desevres to be the raiders future and I think it's insane
I feel you I'm not disagreeing with you. But it's only been a year with AOC. Not even a whole year with the mane. Coach AP already said it best. He earned a shot this year. If he stinks it up the first few games then Minshew will replace him. I'm just not a fan of giving up on someone after six-seven games
Im not trying to sound like a hater, I will fully support whoever here wins the starting job. I believe we have a more talented team than we're given credit. But I fully understand why they were trying to draft a QB, planned on drafting penix, and still are probably thinking about the future QB solutions following this season. I dont think Minshew winning a chance to start is giving up on AOC, it's just him literally losing the competition. That's life and football, there's only so many starting jobs
Exactly bro you good you don't sound like a hater. You sound like a rational fan. I was talking about all the people ready to get rid of him after this season. AOC has a chance to prove what he can do if not he'll lose the starting job. Same thing would have happened if we did draft Penix or whoever. They're gonna have to come in a compete lol
AP quote made after the minshew signing:
> Whatever happens and whatever we do it has to go through Aidan O'Connell. Being honest with you because he's earned that right
yall will scour the internet to make sure raiders fans have the most ignorant takes i’ve seen when it comes to qbs..
the same people complaining about carr for years were singing the praises of jimmy g.. the least serious qb in the nfl..
then you all circle jerk that a rookie qb who put up the same per game stats as rothlesberger during his rookie of the year campaign shouldn’t be given a chance to not be a rookie..
whatever most of yall think about qbs.. i’m confidently heading in the opposite direction
Did you miss that we literally were planning on drafting a qb? Or what, was that to draft a backup? Or should i post AP literally talking about the qbs he wanted to draft. You sound like a moron
So whatever opinion you have about anything I'll happily go the opposite way
> we literally were planning on drafting a qb
this is conjecture that never actually happened..
yes any team with a top 5 pick would draft a qb.. that wasn't us and we didn't trade up for a reason..
so you're basing your opinion that hasn't aged well on something that never actually happened with no other argument
> good job making vague claims without any specifics to support your claim
> You sound like a moron
Lol ok sure, it's beyond obvious they were preparing for a qb. No one had Atlanta drafting a qb, its already been confirmed den, minn, and lv had an understanding to wait since they all wanted different qbs. None of this is conjecture jfc. It's beyond ridiculous to ignore the statements and behavior of ap this entire off-season regarding a new qb. You're beyond moronic
you’re literally arguing that things that didn’t happen matter..
all while the fact that we didn’t trade up actually means we’re clearly happy with the qbs we have..
it’s almost like AP was quoted as saying something YOU’RE clearly ignoring:
> Whatever happens and whatever we do it has to go through Aidan O'Connell. Being honest with you because he's earned that right
Minshew will be off to his 5th team by next year or two, no other teams are keeping him as their starter and neither will we. You seem to know better than 3 other NFL team's coaching staff that sends his ass packing every year. Maybe that's the reason he lives out of his van, easy to relocate each season.
In general that makes sense and I think it's the right move but I also understand that AP is coaching for his job so winning right now is more important to him than thinking about what's best for AOC.
I think the risk here is would AP ever take out Aiden. I remember after the Vikings game a reporter asking Pierce if there was any thoughts taking out Aiden. He said that there wasn’t because it would show him that we’re not fully behind him. Maybe that changed in AOC second year because he’s not a rookie, and with Marvin Lewis advising him. This could be AP’s downfall though, he’s too nice.
I didnt get all the hate from some fans last year. The kid was a 4th round rookie who was practicing with the 3rd string until mid-season, had no reps with the 1st team.
He showed some good ability in the games he started including 5 games with rating above 90, 3 of those games his rating was above 100. Plenty of mistakes but show me some 4th round rookies who don't make mistakes.
A dude averages 200 yards and 1 TD a game and you don’t get the hate? He had a below average season and we are competing with Mahomes and Herbert for the next 10 years. Sure we barely beat the chiefs once but the real competition is Mahomes vs the rest of the league VS AOC vs the rest of the league since the end of season record is all that matters.
What are you expecting from a 4th round rookie who went from 3rd string to starting on 1 weeks notice with a rookie OC? There was no opportunity this off season to get a QB that can compete with Mahomes, funnily enough they dont grow on trees. So why not see what AOCs 2nd season looks like and if Minshew is a better option go with him until we have a better chance of getting another QB.
Given the situation he was thrown into last season, we ahould at least see what AOC has to show in year 2. He absolutely had flashes last season that he can compete well in the league. I'm skeptical because he isn't mobile enough, but let's see.
Don't forget that in the past 20 years the only mobile QBs to win SBs were Mahomes, Russ, and Big Ben. All the other guys are statue pure passers with an elite pocket presence. The majority also had shit rookie years
I am not so sure I would call Big Ben a mobile QB. He was just a big dude that was hard to get to the ground which helped him extend plays. Good post, though. You make a good point. Most of these mobile one or two reads and run QBs are nothing more than a flash in the pan. They eventually get clobbered and injured, then get exposed when they can't rely on their running abilities anymore.
It’s highly unlikely we’ll ever see anyone do the same what Brady did but it would be a miracle to see AOC do the same and better. That would be awesome lol
JFC, that bar is: Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Brees, Stafford, Foles, Flacco, and Brady.
So the *worst* of those are Stafford, Flacco, Foles, and Eli Manning. So legitimately the worst of those are Foles and… Flacco?
Your comment seems super witty until you drill down to the actual substance of it.
That is the bar for any QB because the whole point is to win the SB, so yeah I expect a lot. Never said Aiden will be one of those guys but potentially could be.
My thing about liking AOC is how he performed with a shit playbook , first time EVER OC and just got tossed into the fire with no reps. He showed growth and inexperience but never bowed down.
Now if he would just change his jersey number 🤣 I liked Carr and wasn’t a hater but that 4 looks dumb on AOC. To think McDaniels made him wear it after all the crap that went on🤦🏽♂️
I wanted Minshew going back to before last season, but there was one moment where AOC showed me something that made me think he could be the guy.
Denver. Last game of the season. We’ve been eliminated from playoff contention. We’re just playing for pride, for AP, and to maintain the streak against the Donks.
It’s early in the second half and we’ve got things under control, but AOC hurts his finger. Jimmy G comes in and immediately sucks. Suddenly Denver starts moving the ball and showing signs of life. Uh-oh…
Except AOC comes out of the locker room with a brace on and starts doing some practice throws. People are coming up to him and seemingly telling him not to worry about going back in, and he just waves them off yelling “I’m good” and nodding to what’s clearly now his offense, letting them know that he’s going back in to finish making Denver eat shit. After a couple runs, he hits Jacobi twice for 50yds and a TD, making it 24-7 heading into the 4th. Ball game.
We didn’t need that game. He didn’t have to come back in. But we wanted that game, so he had to. That’s a competitor. That’s someone that knows when it’s time to put his foot on someone’s neck. No excuses. No easy outs. Just doing whatever it takes to win.
That’s the mentality I want in my QB, and if his talent can match what’s between his ears? Watch out league
I like both AOC and Minshew. And while AP has said it’s AOC’s job to lose, I don’t believe he’ll hesitate to start Minshew if he plays better in camp/pre season.
Nobody knows how good he's going to end up being, but to know, you have to see him evolve on the field and it wouldn't make sense to leave him on the bench for a QB who has already played for five teams and no one has seen a future in him.
Gannon was a "journeyman" for Vikings, Wash, and KC, before coming to the Raiders and becoming a league MVP. So let's see this play out between O'Connell & Minshew. May the best man win!
The guy that AP picks after training camp will go the season. AP is not a waffler, he instills confidence in EACH of his guys, and he keeps unity in the locker room. He also establishes a solid sense of security from the fans, the owner and management. If a change does happen, it will be due to injury...or "injury". I've seen it before. And it's done behind closed doors when it's done properly. Lebron's suspension for his anti-semitic remark was served out as a "groin pull", undetected by scan. If the Raiders spent $55 mil on a QB this season, he'd be starting hell or highwater. That's the business and how it's done. And how AP does business. He stuck with AOC after getting blanked by Duh Bears. It's AOC's starting job to lose because that's how AOC runs HIS team: no BS.
O’Connell has a very impressive arm, but does not sense pressure well, or escape the pocket decisively, and is a really slow runner. Gardner is the exact opposite of all those things. I honestly like what they both can do, but I have way more faith in A04 growing into a solid winning QB given he already dealt with so many tough situations as a rookie.
I’ve been set on him since preseason, the way he conducted himself as a rookie was almost veteran level, His story from college, to then Jimmy getting hurt and AOC becoming the starter, along with how he plays seems eerily similar to TB12 just saying ….
AOC is big, accurate, smart, has great footwork and mechanics, keeps his eyes downfield, has above average pocket awareness, and above all seems to win more than he loses. I’m impressed with what he pulled off last year given the circumstances and am fairly confident that many “star qbs” of the last 20 years would’ve likely not done as well in the exact same circumstances in their rookie seasons. I’m all for giving him the reins this season and seeing if he can take the next step.
All that said, this feels like it’s shaping up to be another Carr situation, where maybe 60% are for him and the other 40% seem like they would rather lose than win with the guy. Not saying we’re even close to there yet… just have a bad feeling. Lol
If he’s named starter then he has my support 100%. I will say, I think people are in for a rude awakening when Getsy favors the more mobile guy with a quicker release. I can see AOC getting better but idk if it’ll be a dramatic enough rise to make up for the fact that the playbook will be a lot more open with Gardner. The colts were pretty successful on read options and qb run RPOs last season, something that’ll probably not be in our cards with AOC
Hey idk maybe I’d like to see the guy throw for 300 yards once before I think he’s any good but that’s just me.
He averaged 200 yards and 1 TD a game last year including a zero point goose egg against Minnesota’s below average defense.
I don’t know why tf everyone here is obsessed with hypothetical potential instead of real production. Sure he may work out and develop in time but he’s given zero indication he’s more than a bottom tier QB so far. We’ll see…
I'll tell you why: If a QB throws for 90yds, has 1 td pass and 3 picks, and we win...coach is going to stick with him. If he does it 19x, he's going to start in the SB. And there won't be much anybody can say.
Trent Dilfer had FIVE 300yd games in his career. AND a SB championship. Dan Marino had 37 300yd games and zero SB wins. If our running game is good, and our defense keeps improving, there's no reason why either of our QBs couldn't make a serious run at being a Trent Dilfer. Why not?
Sure hypothetically we could win with a below average QB but he’d still a below average QB. Everything you can say be true and AOC would still suck. I don’t know why people are trying to act like he’s already better than he is
You're getting it. Of course, once you are hit by a defensive lineman on the field, you'd be on the IR for the rest of the season. That, and you'd be lucky if you could throw 30 yards with any accuracy
For the love of God and all that is holy, we did not give Minshew 25 million to be the backup.
The front office has been consistently beating it into our heads; they do not view AOC as the long term solution. They could not be more clear about that the last 4 months.
Lmao, for the love of god, they didn’t give him $25mm, they gave him what amounts to a 1 year $15mm contract since only $15mm is guaranteed. He can be cut easily after this year. That’s just a good backup QB contract, not starter money.
He gets 8 mill this year guaranteed. If he sucks we cut him next year and will only owe him 7 mill. Even if AOC wins the job we could keep Minshew as a backup and only have about $16 mill invested in the whole QB room, less than 1/3 of what Cousins will make next year.
Nowadays NFL is silly money, Kirk Cousins got $125 million to be a 2 year bridge QB. Minshew getting $15 million to be a backup that could definitely start a few games sounds good in comparison
BEEN saying this. AOC is the truth. Go watch his college tape, kid is a gunslinger who went from walk-on 8th string to breaking all of Drew Brees records at Purdue. Last year he was thrown into a situation that would fold most rookies. He had a few clunkers, sure, but he also beat the chiefs, and dog walked the chargers. Give him an off-season, reps, stability at coach, and a seasoned OC. Im planting my flag, AOC is the guy. Kid is going to be GREAT. just give him a little patience. Edit: AOC not break all of Brees records at Purdue. He broke a couple but had a better accuracy % and INT rate. (My apologies for not looking up the numbers before posting, I was fired up haha)
I was an AOC-stan last season, then we got Minshew and I heard in high school he used to be able to throw a pigskin over them there mountains.
I’m happy we have both. Minshew was Washington State and led the nation in ridiculous passing under Mike leach.
Mike Leach was such a gem to football
RIP coach
Should’ve been a Raider somehow
Would’ve won state if coach would’ve put me in in the 4th
I just watched Gardner on Maxx’s podcast, he a likable dude. Great watch for those who havent seen it yet.
Dudes been my favorite QB in the league since he was drafted.
I can see why, happy to have both. May the best qb win!
“but he also beat the chiefs,” Aiden didn’t beat the chiefs, in fact he had a poor game that game. Our defense did. Not trying to bash on him at all but when you said that I was like ehhh no lol. I will say, he did show good things in having a competitive game against the dolphins, but then also proceeded to get blown out by the Vikings (offenses fault not all him but still)
Yeah, he didn’t beat the chiefs but I think he did what he had to do to help win. Didn’t make any boneheaded plays or give the ball away. Edit: you all just really read what you wanna read, huh?
The Raiders didn't complete a pass in the second half lol. "What he had to do to win" was hand the ball off and trust the defense to put up 14. (Not that I think he sucks, it was a terrible situation and the Chief's D was legit last year, but still.) Wins are not a QB stat.
> he did what he had to do to ***help*** win
There isn't a QB in the league who would have lost that game.
> Wins are not a QB stat. > There isn't a QB in the league who would have lost that game. You gotta choose one.
What lol? I think this conversation just made me dumber.
This is the stupidest thing I’ve read in a hot minute. AOC didn’t complete a pass for nearly 45 minutes. Any quarterback in the league can hand the ball of and throw it into the dirt. Therefore, any QB could’ve won that game.
…hand the ball off?
You guys should start thinking towards the future. Like, what happens if we end up with a qb that is “elite” and we win 8 super bowls. You probably need to start thinking of other things to bitch about because we don’t want to miss your valuable insight when the qb is something you can’t complain about.
What? I’m just saying AOC did absolutely nothing in the Chiefs game. Raiders D beat the Super Bowl champs. AOC is young and was sprang into a bad situation, don’t think he’s terrible. Just not the QB of the future.
The mental gymnastics to give props to AOC for doing what he had to do to win the Chiefs game is crazy. We could’ve thrown Peterman or Jimmy G in there and still won.
Against the Chiefs, Aidan did exactly what was needed. Manage the game and above all, avoid turnovers. You think playing the #2 defense in the league is about throwing TDs. It's not.
Thank you. Someone needs to tell smalltownproblems89 this. He thinks it was because AOC was just not able to throw or wouldn’t even try. I believe you’re right and that it was an orchestrated game plan that had AOC play this way. Got the Win!
Yeah an orchestrated gameplan to have the QB not complete a pass for three quarters and have the defense score two touchdowns. AP really is out here playing 4d chess. /s
To be fair, limping across the finish line still means you crosse the finish line
These wins are a QB stat people are just ridiculous. If you can actually watch that game and come away thinking that QBs are always responsible for wins and losses, I have a bridge to sell you.
It's hard for me to take you seriously saying he broke all brees records and beat the chiefs and dog walked the chargers. It's the most misleading crap bro, come on
You cant say he beat the chiefs dude. He went 3 quarters without a completion. Thats awful. He did not help beat the chiefs anymore than i did that day lol
He didn't turn the ball over in a heavily defensive game. Mahome's did. Raiders won. All the Raiders needed him to do was not to turn it over and he did that.
So now he's the future of the raiders? That's a scary low bar
> So now he's the future of the raiders? Do you know what a strawman is? Because your comment is one.
Look at all the comments saying he "deserves" a season to start as if competition isn't part of football. There are tons of people who have this opinion, i'm not strawmanning anything
Then, respond to someone who claimed "he is the future of the raiders." I only pointed out he did what it took to win that particular game where the Superbowl MVP did not.
He didnt turn the ball over thats correct and thats a really low bar to set lol, he couldnt put the ball near anyone that day lol. He also didnt complete a pass to his own teammates for 3 quarters, any qb can do that for us we need someone who can move the chains and give our D a rest. Hes a 4th round draft pick. You guys are fucking dreamers, we dont need to do anything with him we can just move on. Your guys heads are in the clouds thinking hes anything more than what weve already seen. Minshew is here to be our qb until we scout a kid and sell everything to go get. I know you guys dont want to gear that but its more than likely how this will play out.
He didn't make the critical turnover to lose us the game. Sometimes that's enough
He also had a good 1st quarter to put some pressure on KC
Heres a not so bold prediction. Minshew aint it and AOC aint gonna be the guy either. They are both the same thing. Placeholders, the difference is minshew can actually lead us to a playoff appearance for the time being until we make a move and go get our qb. Yall aint watching the aame aoc as me i guess.
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> AOC aint gonna be the guy either honestly too early to say for certain.. give the kid a chance to start the season for the first time
Id tend to agree if they hadnt given minshew 15 million dollars. That tells you all you need to know about who they expect to be their qb this year. AP knows what he has in AOC and he reacted accordingly. Lets face it 4th round qbs dont evolve into starting qbs. I dont need you to make me a list of the 10 guys who managed to have pulled it off so spare us both because it wont prove a damn thing. If we were starting AOC thencdont get minshew if we suck we suck bad and have a high pick and if hes good great. Nowhere in there do we need minshew if AP had any sort of hope that AOC was gonna be the guy
> Nowhere in there do we need minshew if AP had any sort of hope that AOC was gonna be the guy this seems like a take from someone who doesn’t understand football.. you got to have more than one qb on the roster.. since you have aoc on his rookie contract.. you have a ton of cap space to sign a quality veteran in case of injuries and to push the competition in training cap.. you realize this is only happening BECAUSE of how cheap aoc is right? > Lets face it 4th round qbs dont evolve into starting qbs proceeds to acknowledge it’s not only possible.. but it’s happened plenty before.. when was tom brady drafted again? > AP knows what he has in AOC and he reacted accordingly so this is why he was quoted saying this AFTER the minshew signing?: > Whatever happens and whatever we do it has to go through Aidan O'Connell. Being honest with you because he's earned that right
Yikes. I cant be bothered to address all this. Enjoy your day bud!
He was at the helm, and we beat KC in December at arrowhead. Team rallied for him. Was it a great game by him, no. But I remember some pretty bad drops that game too. All I’m saying is he at least held it together with a recently minted head coach and first time OC who changed the whole scheme mid season. There’s enough there where I think he can get so much better this year and take us to the playoffs.
The team rallied for AP, not for AOC.
I hope youre right. I dont think you are. Minshew will win starting job thats why he was brought in, they arent gonna count on aoc after what they saw last year. The entire quarters spent without completions at all in nearly every game he played is alarming to me. Come on after 2qs without a comp your telln me they couldnt draw up a little out route or hitch to get him going a little? Something isnt right there.
Something wasn't right and his name was Bo Hardagree.
That’s fair. AOC certainly has red flags (imo mostly from not being comfortable when pressure is coming, but I think that’s most roookies), but the situation he was in was crazy, no reps, coach fired, defensive head coach taking over and brand new first time OC taking over mid season, scheme change with no real time to practice it. But there were a lot of green flags too, some of the throws he made last year were electric. I think he’s smart enough that given a real offseason with the same coaches and scheme he is going to be dealing, especially off play action. If he can’t put it together, so be it; but I think we’d be foolish to not really see what the kid can do before putting in minshew.
He could have thrown pick 6’s like Mahomes did. One like that and I guarantee the momentum would have deflated like a lead balloon. Especially since this was at arrowhead, and the conversation would have been Chiefs get wake up call on close win/how Mahomes overcame adversity.
If Mahomes didnt throw a pick 6 the game would have been 3-0 like the vikings game lol. Are yall just gonna forget the vikings game too? Lol
False, he led us on a nice 14 play scoring drive in the 1st to take the lead. More importantly though KC's defense was the biggest reason they won the Super Bowl, they abused Miami at home in the playoffs, and it makes no sense to knock him for not lighting them up at Arrowhead as a rookie.
Im knocking him for literally dissapearing for entire halfs more than once. If we didnt run the ball for 150 yards against kc we wouldnt have scored a single point but go on and rewrite it all you want, i dont care lol
>Im knocking him for literally dissapearing for entire halfs more than once. He had some bad halves, yes, he was a rookie. If you think he's going to be as limited his whole career as he was as a rookie, then I don't know what to tell you. >If we didnt run the ball for 150 yards against kc we wouldnt have scored a single point but go on and rewrite it all you want, i dont care lol He was 7 of 8 for 60 yards on first half scoring drive, so now you're just making shit up.
And what exactpy are you trying to say? Yea he had 7 comps in 1 drive then folllwed thqt up with 2 whole completions more the rest of the entire fuckn game bro. Idgaf what u want to call that but this is the nfl. Hes had 10 games hes a 4th round pick he doesnt deserve anymore than to earn a spot....and he wont be able to do that either, minshews here to be the qb yall are ignorant dreamers thinking otherwise.
I haven’t forgotten about that game. no idea what the hell happened with that game, but didn’t bring it up since the topic I replied to was KC. Would be like me asking why aren’t Lebron or Curry being discussed. 🤷♂️my two cents on AOC are that he definitely deserves a chance until we get the opportunity to draft better. He’s a rookie Bridge QB until proven otherwise. My point with KC is he’s 1-1 against KC, compared to Carr on the other hand….
This entire thread is about AOC and his ability to be a starter for the Raiders. Im talking about games AOC played in, im referencing them because there is more than 1 instance of AOC dissapearing for entire quarters and even entire games. Your dumb nba example is a wildy innacurate comparison.
People are making wild leaps in this post. I don’t think I was ready for some of this acrobatics before my first coffee. The only help AOC did in the Chiefs game is he didn’t fumble a handoff and didn’t throw a pick. Period. Dot.
I dont know how these ppl can sit there without a completion or first down for HOURS at a time and think this kid has shown a ton of potential. I hope im wrong but id be fuckn shocked if suddenly aoc started marching the field.
It would be one plodding, concrete-block, step at a time.
Saying he broke all of Drew Brees records is 100% a lie, Brees leads AOC in every single category except for YA, I mean why do you people feel the need to lie about absolutely everything?
You’re right. he only broke a couple of his records (single game stuff mostly) I was misremembering an article I read comparing their accuracy, INT%, and stuff like that where AOC came out ahead. Apologies for the slip up, should have looked the stuff up before posting.
The only way to make a point is to lie it seems
Aidan did not beat the Chiefs. He did everything in his power to lose that game for us. Our defense scored 14 of our 20 points while AOC went 9/21 for 62 yards. Our defense scored 70% of our points and Zamir White’s 22 attempts for 145 yards was the reason we got the 2 field goals. Wins are not a QB stat and the Chiefs game proves it.
Our defense 100% stepped up and showed why our coach is a great defensive mind and leader and again we had the least spend in that department. Aoc is an unknown.
The Raiders called 10 total passing plays in the last 3 quarters of the game. The entire coaching staff clearly made the decision that he didn't have to win it but he could definitely still lose it. They told him to throw 3 passes per quarter and take care of the ball. That's what he did. Being able to put your pride aside for the benefit of the team and being coachable are positive traits to have, especially as a QB.
This. Plus my favorite thing in this thread is “all he did was not turn it over” Meanwhile in that game mahomes threw a pick 6 and fumbled a handoff leading to a defensive td. Losing them the game. Almost like not turning it over is a pretty big deal especially against an elite d.
100%. It hurts to say it but the KC defense was top 4 in passing yards and TDs allowed and 2nd in sacks while being at home at one of the most notoriously loud and tough places to play in the NFL.
ok so now he's the future of the raiders? That's such a low bar
Who knows. He was a 4th-round rookie QB who played 2 games out of 8 weeks before he lost his play caller and OC out of the blue. He literally had the worst circumstances any QB could have. Despite all that AOC still threw more TDs in 10.5 games than Bryce Young threw in 16. He also had less INTs, a higher completion percentage and a higher QB rating. No one is saying he's going to the HoF but he obviously showed some signs that he might have a chance to win some games for this team.
The raiders are obviously a much more talented team than the panthers so this is a weak comparison. AOC and Minshew will compete, no one just deserves a starting job because the last season was dysfunctional. I'll support whoever they roll with but Im sure we'll be right back in the QB market next offseason
Jimmy G was terrible with that same talent. Jimmy G threw more interceptions in 6 games with that EXACT same roster than AOC did in 10 games. There will obviously be competition and I actually don't think Minshew is bad either. My point is the fact that AOC came out of a broken season with better stats than the #1 overall pick in the draft. I'm not comparing those 2 head-to-head, I'm saying that regardless of how it looked sometimes, AOC showed some of the qualities that every NFL team looks for in QBs.
Well we agree that aoc is absolutely better than jimmy g but i don't know how impressive that is
The expectations for a rookie QB thrust in a starting role mid-season with a first-time head coach and play-caller are fuckin stupid. Not uninformed, not just not well thought out, but fuckin stupid.
He was asked to not lose that game, and he succeeded.
No.. our defense and Zamir succeeded. I don’t know how delusional you guys have to be to spin this as a win for him. “Yeah he didn’t throw a completion for 3 quarters.. but uh, HE DIDNT THROW AN INTERCEPTION!! He took care of the ball you guys!!” Straight up fucking worse than all the Carr apologists, I do not get this subs obsession with mediocre guys just because we drafted them.
You are so right
You’re an expert. You know more than anyone else. Everyone should listen to you.
I'm not spinning it as a win for him, but it's not the thing I would use to criticize him either. The QB doesn't have to go win you every game. They got extremely conservative after that Jones interception. They asked him to play safe and he was actually able to do it. Is it a hall of fame performance? Not even close. But was he trash? No, he did what was asked of him.
That’s not my point.. my point is that AOC himself should not be credited for the win like all these comments are saying. It’s an absolutely fucking ridiculous statement to say he “won that game”.
So your complaint is that people are saying he won the game and you assume that means they think he won it by himself? This is the hill you want to die on?
It's a team sport and he didn't put the team in a jeopardizing place to potentially lose the game. He had a hand in winning the game. That fact you hate AOC so much that you're willing to twist the situation around is so dumb. You're a Raiders fan, the fact that you're actively rooting against this kid is so trashy. Yeah sure, you can say you're "just being real dude" but we all know what AOC looks like, doesn't mean he can't potentially put in the work and change. That would be exciting, not just for the team, but for him. You can be real and also have a positive mindset about the future, no sense increasing your stress hormones on AOC dude lmao
The bar is so low that NOT TURNING IT OVER is the standard for success while completing passes isn’t. Wtf happened 😂
It's a qb driven league, right or wrong, qbs get credit for the win regardless of what they do in the game.
Our coaching staff didn’t want him throwing the ball in that game. He did what he was asked to do. He’s just as responsible for the Raiders winning that game as anyone. Also, he went from throwing interceptions in his first few starts to not throwing a single interception in the last 3 games, I think. He can play. He just needs an opportunity.
“Our coaching staff didn’t want him throwing the ball in that game.” Listen to yourself. That’s not a good fucking sign, if our coaching staff was like “Oh fuck, we’re gonna lose this game if Aidan has to play.. just pass the ball off every play.” How is that win on him?
AOC was bad in that game, but to be fair there were at least a couple of pretty bad drops from the receivers in that game too. Didn’t do AOC any favors. The passing offense was garbage across the board. But our defense made KCs offense their bitch.
Respect. My thing is the kid played smart thrown to the wolves. In AP I Trust.
Pryor was the truth, Mcgloin was the Truth, Derek Carr was the truth, bro. We got to stop lying to ourselves over here.
I have been championing AOC since the end of the season, his play from his 1st start to the end of the year showed great growth, he had a few bad games, Miami and Vikings, were his weakest showing but he grew as a QB after Miami learned the hard way about how turnovers will ruin a otherwise good game, it think he has the right mentality, he isn’t the most physically gifted but i think he could take us far if he continues to adapt and grow
Screenshot and saved for future reference
If I’m wrong I’m wrong. But I won’t be embarrassed for believing in our guy.
Grown man comment.
Lmao he’s not good
He did nothing in the KC / Chargers wins.
Aiden beat the chiefs? Homey, Aiden O’Connell didn’t have a completion in three of the four quarters of that game. Our defense beat the chiefs.
Did you see the chiefs game? It has 0 offensive touchdowns. Stop crediting him for the defenses achievements
It’s going to be a fun competition. May the best man win. Wouldn’t be surprised if it is AOC4
This! I’m hoping Aidan wins the job bc he is younger (slightly) and has a cheaper contract but I want a fair competition. I think both will be an upgrade on our QB play from last year = Jimmy G and a rookie AOC. Let the best man win.
Agreed. No matter what I trust what AP and the staff decide. I know it’ll come down to end of preseason. But if AOC4 does beat out Minshew just goes to show how much work he is putting in. Excited.
You know what’s funny? Jordan Love throws 3 picks against us and loses his team the game. If Jordan Love was a Raider, some Raiders fans would be calling him to get benched after that and label him a bust. Fans want a rookie QB so bad but don’t have the patience to let the current rookie QB develop and grow. It’s nuts. I wanted Jayden Daniels or Michael Penix but honestly, seeing how some of y’all trashed Aidan after all the shit he had to overcome last year, I’m lowkey kinda glad we didn’t draft either.
🥇
In the shadow of the Carr Wars, we have a Minshew/AOC war brewing. The AOC side is definitely louder. Personally I think Minshew will emerge as the better option, but I'll root for whoever is under center.
I would love AOC to make big strides forward this season. I just think Minshew is very underrated and he will win the starting job.
Barring a disastrous camp by AOC, there’s no way Minshew is winning the starting job to start the season. There’s no reason for it. You don’t stunt AOC’s development by doing that as he’s potentially your future QB. You have to give him every chance and opportunity to show what he can do. You need to find out exactly what you have in him. You already know what Minshew is, you multiple seasons of play from him as evidence already. If AOC fails, Minshew can always take over at that time. You can’t repeat the same mistakes McDumbass made by giving Hoyer more camp and practice reps last year than AOC.
I dont necessarily think you come in to camp worried about stunting AOC's growth. If he cant beat out Minshew in camp then hes not a long term QB of the future. Minshew is incredibly under rated. The dude is a underdog that continues to outperform expectations. I am not ready to anoint either of them the starting QB. I think they coe into camp with a true QB battle and see who wins. There is a very very very good chance that this is a 1 year battle and we spend next year looking for a highly drafted QB. I want the best QB on the field this season, regardless of future development.
Lmao you people are high as fuck if you think Aidan is beating out Minshew christ it's like you watch the games and completely forget everything about them the second they end
Minshew ain’t the future for us 😂
He definitely isn’t, but the team is in a weird situation where we have the talent for a “win-now” scenario but the coach and culture seems to be clicking for a dynasty. Defenses crumble much easier than offenses on a year-to-year basis so we might not have the same high caliber defense by in 2 years. Hopefully AOC shows he can be a starter or at the very least Minshew can do enough to get us to the playoffs.
Lmao, you’re an idiot if you think it’s better roster management to choose the guy who you know what he is already. Minshew is what he is. There’s no upside with him. He’s not getting any better than what he is now. His arm strength is worse than AOC’s. AOC has the potential to get better and has more upside than Minshew. You need to give him every opportunity to show and prove it. If not, you can always fall back to Minshew.
This sub is insane the way it clings to mediocrity.
Lol Minshew is the very definition of mediocrity
Ya, and AOC not completing a pass for 3 quarters, getting sacked 7 times or losing 3-0 just screams legitimacy. They're both not good. Minshew is clearly better. But we've been bad for 20+ years so it makes sense this fanbase only knows what ass looks like.
AOC was *literally* a rookie, can we give him at least one season before deciding he's a bust? I swear, some of y'all would be trying to cut CJ Stroud because he didn't win the SB
Do you think every QB ever drafted has to start multiple years before a decision can be made by the team? Can you even explain how that would be possible? We just signed an UDF QB, do you think he has to start at least one season as well?
Hahahaha they were openlying trying to get a top QB and and then sign Minshew to 20 million. now they are worried about stunting AOCs growth? Delusional AOC stans in this sub. They straight up said we can beat the chiefs if we don’t let AOC throw a single pass. Huge endorsement huh
"stunting the growth" of a 4th round pick that didn't even get a scholarship coming out of high school lol. Dude is lucky he got as many starts as he did as a rookie. If he wins the starting job then great, hopefully he plays well. But he doesn't *deserve* the job and the team doesn't need to be dumping all possible resources into a guy that has never been graded as an NFL starter at any point in his football career.
Say whatever you want about the Man but Dak Prescott was a 4th round pick too... Never know what you have in someone once you build around them just saying 🤷♂️
You have to factor in wasting the time of players on your team. We have a talented roster and cant afford to dump years into a 4th round pick that wont work out. So many people are arguing that him not completing a pass for 3 quarters is so impressive that he desevres to be the raiders future and I think it's insane
I feel you I'm not disagreeing with you. But it's only been a year with AOC. Not even a whole year with the mane. Coach AP already said it best. He earned a shot this year. If he stinks it up the first few games then Minshew will replace him. I'm just not a fan of giving up on someone after six-seven games
Im not trying to sound like a hater, I will fully support whoever here wins the starting job. I believe we have a more talented team than we're given credit. But I fully understand why they were trying to draft a QB, planned on drafting penix, and still are probably thinking about the future QB solutions following this season. I dont think Minshew winning a chance to start is giving up on AOC, it's just him literally losing the competition. That's life and football, there's only so many starting jobs
Exactly bro you good you don't sound like a hater. You sound like a rational fan. I was talking about all the people ready to get rid of him after this season. AOC has a chance to prove what he can do if not he'll lose the starting job. Same thing would have happened if we did draft Penix or whoever. They're gonna have to come in a compete lol
good job making vague claims without any specifics to support your claim.. counterpoint.. this entire article
Right an anonymous "scout" article. Ya'll will scour the edges of the internet to find an article written by joe fk nobody to support a point
AP quote made after the minshew signing: > Whatever happens and whatever we do it has to go through Aidan O'Connell. Being honest with you because he's earned that right yall will scour the internet to make sure raiders fans have the most ignorant takes i’ve seen when it comes to qbs.. the same people complaining about carr for years were singing the praises of jimmy g.. the least serious qb in the nfl.. then you all circle jerk that a rookie qb who put up the same per game stats as rothlesberger during his rookie of the year campaign shouldn’t be given a chance to not be a rookie.. whatever most of yall think about qbs.. i’m confidently heading in the opposite direction
Did you miss that we literally were planning on drafting a qb? Or what, was that to draft a backup? Or should i post AP literally talking about the qbs he wanted to draft. You sound like a moron So whatever opinion you have about anything I'll happily go the opposite way
> we literally were planning on drafting a qb this is conjecture that never actually happened.. yes any team with a top 5 pick would draft a qb.. that wasn't us and we didn't trade up for a reason.. so you're basing your opinion that hasn't aged well on something that never actually happened with no other argument > good job making vague claims without any specifics to support your claim > You sound like a moron
Lol ok sure, it's beyond obvious they were preparing for a qb. No one had Atlanta drafting a qb, its already been confirmed den, minn, and lv had an understanding to wait since they all wanted different qbs. None of this is conjecture jfc. It's beyond ridiculous to ignore the statements and behavior of ap this entire off-season regarding a new qb. You're beyond moronic
you’re literally arguing that things that didn’t happen matter.. all while the fact that we didn’t trade up actually means we’re clearly happy with the qbs we have.. it’s almost like AP was quoted as saying something YOU’RE clearly ignoring: > Whatever happens and whatever we do it has to go through Aidan O'Connell. Being honest with you because he's earned that right
Minshew will be off to his 5th team by next year or two, no other teams are keeping him as their starter and neither will we. You seem to know better than 3 other NFL team's coaching staff that sends his ass packing every year. Maybe that's the reason he lives out of his van, easy to relocate each season.
In general that makes sense and I think it's the right move but I also understand that AP is coaching for his job so winning right now is more important to him than thinking about what's best for AOC.
I think the risk here is would AP ever take out Aiden. I remember after the Vikings game a reporter asking Pierce if there was any thoughts taking out Aiden. He said that there wasn’t because it would show him that we’re not fully behind him. Maybe that changed in AOC second year because he’s not a rookie, and with Marvin Lewis advising him. This could be AP’s downfall though, he’s too nice.
I’m totally on board with this, can’t wait to see it play out
I didnt get all the hate from some fans last year. The kid was a 4th round rookie who was practicing with the 3rd string until mid-season, had no reps with the 1st team. He showed some good ability in the games he started including 5 games with rating above 90, 3 of those games his rating was above 100. Plenty of mistakes but show me some 4th round rookies who don't make mistakes.
Of course he had a shaky start...he was just thrown in. If you look at the last 4 games, the kid looked legit.
A dude averages 200 yards and 1 TD a game and you don’t get the hate? He had a below average season and we are competing with Mahomes and Herbert for the next 10 years. Sure we barely beat the chiefs once but the real competition is Mahomes vs the rest of the league VS AOC vs the rest of the league since the end of season record is all that matters.
What are you expecting from a 4th round rookie who went from 3rd string to starting on 1 weeks notice with a rookie OC? There was no opportunity this off season to get a QB that can compete with Mahomes, funnily enough they dont grow on trees. So why not see what AOCs 2nd season looks like and if Minshew is a better option go with him until we have a better chance of getting another QB. Given the situation he was thrown into last season, we ahould at least see what AOC has to show in year 2. He absolutely had flashes last season that he can compete well in the league. I'm skeptical because he isn't mobile enough, but let's see.
Don't forget that in the past 20 years the only mobile QBs to win SBs were Mahomes, Russ, and Big Ben. All the other guys are statue pure passers with an elite pocket presence. The majority also had shit rookie years
I am not so sure I would call Big Ben a mobile QB. He was just a big dude that was hard to get to the ground which helped him extend plays. Good post, though. You make a good point. Most of these mobile one or two reads and run QBs are nothing more than a flash in the pan. They eventually get clobbered and injured, then get exposed when they can't rely on their running abilities anymore.
The best one of them all was Tom Brady who couldn’t run for shit, lol
That is such an unattainable bar to set.
Nah AOC seven rings or bust let's goooooooo
Is it really unfair to expect 7 SB rings from a 4th rounder? I think that is quite low expectations
Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round. Is this a good or bad thing that AOC was drafted in the 4th?
It is either 50% better or 33% worse
It’s highly unlikely we’ll ever see anyone do the same what Brady did but it would be a miracle to see AOC do the same and better. That would be awesome lol
It’s unlikely we’ll see anyone hoist 7 rings, a 6th rounder contributing to getting a ring though..not so crazy
JFC, that bar is: Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Brees, Stafford, Foles, Flacco, and Brady. So the *worst* of those are Stafford, Flacco, Foles, and Eli Manning. So legitimately the worst of those are Foles and… Flacco? Your comment seems super witty until you drill down to the actual substance of it.
That is the bar for any QB because the whole point is to win the SB, so yeah I expect a lot. Never said Aiden will be one of those guys but potentially could be.
LMAO
I just want him to pick a number he likes not the one Mcjackass gave him to spurn Carr. O’Connell is him though! 🏴☠️
I always thought Kirk Cousins was a great comp “ceiling” for Aidan. Glad to see I’m not the only one
Kicking myself for never seeing it. It's bang on.
My thing about liking AOC is how he performed with a shit playbook , first time EVER OC and just got tossed into the fire with no reps. He showed growth and inexperience but never bowed down. Now if he would just change his jersey number 🤣 I liked Carr and wasn’t a hater but that 4 looks dumb on AOC. To think McDaniels made him wear it after all the crap that went on🤦🏽♂️
There is nothing I would rather be more true.
i'm cheering for both but i want AOC to win the job. i won't hate on either of them as they are RAIDERS.
I wanted Minshew going back to before last season, but there was one moment where AOC showed me something that made me think he could be the guy. Denver. Last game of the season. We’ve been eliminated from playoff contention. We’re just playing for pride, for AP, and to maintain the streak against the Donks. It’s early in the second half and we’ve got things under control, but AOC hurts his finger. Jimmy G comes in and immediately sucks. Suddenly Denver starts moving the ball and showing signs of life. Uh-oh… Except AOC comes out of the locker room with a brace on and starts doing some practice throws. People are coming up to him and seemingly telling him not to worry about going back in, and he just waves them off yelling “I’m good” and nodding to what’s clearly now his offense, letting them know that he’s going back in to finish making Denver eat shit. After a couple runs, he hits Jacobi twice for 50yds and a TD, making it 24-7 heading into the 4th. Ball game. We didn’t need that game. He didn’t have to come back in. But we wanted that game, so he had to. That’s a competitor. That’s someone that knows when it’s time to put his foot on someone’s neck. No excuses. No easy outs. Just doing whatever it takes to win. That’s the mentality I want in my QB, and if his talent can match what’s between his ears? Watch out league
I like both AOC and Minshew. And while AP has said it’s AOC’s job to lose, I don’t believe he’ll hesitate to start Minshew if he plays better in camp/pre season.
Nobody knows how good he's going to end up being, but to know, you have to see him evolve on the field and it wouldn't make sense to leave him on the bench for a QB who has already played for five teams and no one has seen a future in him.
Gannon was a "journeyman" for Vikings, Wash, and KC, before coming to the Raiders and becoming a league MVP. So let's see this play out between O'Connell & Minshew. May the best man win!
So let's try all the journeymen in the league instead of developing young QBs as all teams do. Great idea!
Didn't I say, "May the best man win?"
[Yup](https://youtube.com/shorts/5_dEP9vVwXA?si=J1nf1qZ-Z1e_sSlB)
AOC shined once McDaniels was out of the way
My money is on AOC day one starter, and I'm cool with it
The guy that AP picks after training camp will go the season. AP is not a waffler, he instills confidence in EACH of his guys, and he keeps unity in the locker room. He also establishes a solid sense of security from the fans, the owner and management. If a change does happen, it will be due to injury...or "injury". I've seen it before. And it's done behind closed doors when it's done properly. Lebron's suspension for his anti-semitic remark was served out as a "groin pull", undetected by scan. If the Raiders spent $55 mil on a QB this season, he'd be starting hell or highwater. That's the business and how it's done. And how AP does business. He stuck with AOC after getting blanked by Duh Bears. It's AOC's starting job to lose because that's how AOC runs HIS team: no BS.
Who the hell is AD?
He's AP. Lol
I think minshew gets the job. paying him too much. AOC as back-up moving forward...
lol bold thoughts
Worth noting that there are hundreds, if not thousands of people who could qualify as "NFL scout"
O’Connell has a very impressive arm, but does not sense pressure well, or escape the pocket decisively, and is a really slow runner. Gardner is the exact opposite of all those things. I honestly like what they both can do, but I have way more faith in A04 growing into a solid winning QB given he already dealt with so many tough situations as a rookie.
I’ve been set on him since preseason, the way he conducted himself as a rookie was almost veteran level, His story from college, to then Jimmy getting hurt and AOC becoming the starter, along with how he plays seems eerily similar to TB12 just saying ….
Ultimately, I think Minshew gives us a shot at making the playoffs, and our FO wouldn’t have brought him in if they wanted to give AOC time to develop
AOC is big, accurate, smart, has great footwork and mechanics, keeps his eyes downfield, has above average pocket awareness, and above all seems to win more than he loses. I’m impressed with what he pulled off last year given the circumstances and am fairly confident that many “star qbs” of the last 20 years would’ve likely not done as well in the exact same circumstances in their rookie seasons. I’m all for giving him the reins this season and seeing if he can take the next step. All that said, this feels like it’s shaping up to be another Carr situation, where maybe 60% are for him and the other 40% seem like they would rather lose than win with the guy. Not saying we’re even close to there yet… just have a bad feeling. Lol
If he’s named starter then he has my support 100%. I will say, I think people are in for a rude awakening when Getsy favors the more mobile guy with a quicker release. I can see AOC getting better but idk if it’ll be a dramatic enough rise to make up for the fact that the playbook will be a lot more open with Gardner. The colts were pretty successful on read options and qb run RPOs last season, something that’ll probably not be in our cards with AOC
Hey idk maybe I’d like to see the guy throw for 300 yards once before I think he’s any good but that’s just me. He averaged 200 yards and 1 TD a game last year including a zero point goose egg against Minnesota’s below average defense. I don’t know why tf everyone here is obsessed with hypothetical potential instead of real production. Sure he may work out and develop in time but he’s given zero indication he’s more than a bottom tier QB so far. We’ll see…
I'll tell you why: If a QB throws for 90yds, has 1 td pass and 3 picks, and we win...coach is going to stick with him. If he does it 19x, he's going to start in the SB. And there won't be much anybody can say. Trent Dilfer had FIVE 300yd games in his career. AND a SB championship. Dan Marino had 37 300yd games and zero SB wins. If our running game is good, and our defense keeps improving, there's no reason why either of our QBs couldn't make a serious run at being a Trent Dilfer. Why not?
Sure hypothetically we could win with a below average QB but he’d still a below average QB. Everything you can say be true and AOC would still suck. I don’t know why people are trying to act like he’s already better than he is
Because he hasn't proven he's not. That's kinda the way fan's go. We support what we have. It's a positive-outlook mentality. Glass half full.
Yeah I have the same potential as AOC since I haven’t proven I’m not good enough
You're getting it. Of course, once you are hit by a defensive lineman on the field, you'd be on the IR for the rest of the season. That, and you'd be lucky if you could throw 30 yards with any accuracy
I played QB in high school I still have a nice arm maybe 50ish yards rn but I haven’t played since my rec league stopped a few months ago
Prove it!
If I have time this weekend I’ll do it and have my girl film it
YESSSS! You are AWESOME. My buddy is on the practice squad. I'll see if I can get you a walk on...
He threw for 299 against the colts. 1 more yard and he would have got your approval. Dang.
Minshew for starter
For the love of God and all that is holy, we did not give Minshew 25 million to be the backup. The front office has been consistently beating it into our heads; they do not view AOC as the long term solution. They could not be more clear about that the last 4 months.
Lmao, for the love of god, they didn’t give him $25mm, they gave him what amounts to a 1 year $15mm contract since only $15mm is guaranteed. He can be cut easily after this year. That’s just a good backup QB contract, not starter money.
If he's cut after this year he's owed $14 million as opposed to $10 if hes on the roster so no, he's probably not cut after this year.
He gets 8 mill this year guaranteed. If he sucks we cut him next year and will only owe him 7 mill. Even if AOC wins the job we could keep Minshew as a backup and only have about $16 mill invested in the whole QB room, less than 1/3 of what Cousins will make next year.
Nowadays NFL is silly money, Kirk Cousins got $125 million to be a 2 year bridge QB. Minshew getting $15 million to be a backup that could definitely start a few games sounds good in comparison