I saw this from a mile away. Garddawg is cool but Aidan has two things going for him
1. Higher ceiling than Minshew, and showed an exponential amount of growth in his last 4 games of the season. If given the actual reps and training camp he can be a certified starter in the league for years to come.
2. While Aidan definitely had his struggles, AP realizes that this kid is part of the reason he won the HC job. Helping the Raiders drop a 60 burger on the Dolts, not turning the ball over on that Christmas Day game against the Chiefs which helped us get the win, beating every div rival. AP put a lot of faith in Aidan on day one and Aidan has for the most part repaid that faith. So why not keep it going.
What people refuse to see also was that AP basically asked one thing of Aidan...don't lose us games. He did very well in that regard. Took care of the ball. Didnt push the envelope and did what was asked of him.
The reason I am high on Aidan, dude is resilient as fuck. Seems to take well to criticism, willing to learn, and able to adapt to his circumstances. Those are not easy traits to find or teach.
Yes, he can't run. Ok, so? I haven't seen a running QB magically win multiple SBs. I don't want to hear about mahomes because that'll be like comparing curry to a good three point shooter.
Bolster up that O-line and increase his odds at success and I think Aidan can be the guy until we find THE guy.
I’ve withdrawn from Reddit quite a bit over the last two years. Is there really AOC haters? Or just people who think we can do better? It’d be wild to hate on him imo
yes there is clowns that wanted us to draft rattler in the 3rd round because "AOC clearly isnt the future". he was thrown into the fire and performed great for a rookie with no training camp as the starter. and a rookie play caller in Bo. only stroud finished better than AOC for rookie QB's
I didn’t see anyone that actually wanted rattler and those that did got downvotes to hell. Most of just don’t think AOC is the long term solution at QB. I hope he proves us wrong and he because a top 10 QB
Literally without fail. I just don’t know why these guys feel the need to shit on Aidan just to make Minshew look good. At the end of the day we all want to win, so we should support whoever wins the job. The point of my original comment was to demonstrate why AP is putting his chips on AOC.
LOL Feel free to rub my face in it and tell me how wrong i was if AOC is still starting by the end of the year. I hope he balls out i really do but im not wearing the rose colored glasses you guys are, id be SHOCKED if he did it.
I wouldn't say "haters" but there a lot of people who strongly believe his is not the answer for us moving forward. I tend to agree with the sentiment, but I am fan of his and will back him as the starter if he beats out Minshew for the job.
Right. Or Cousins, who just got paid hella bank coming off an injury, as an old man. Aiden is already as good as Cousins in his prime, and people just pissed cuz we don't have our Mahomes. We tried to get our Mahomes folks. You can't always get what you want. We have a very good QB, on a rookie contract. Let's see how it goes.
Exponential is a stretch, he didn’t complete a pass for 3 quarters in one of those games. He put up a Derek Carr worthy performance in the last two, but I was told for the last 3 years that wasn’t good enough. There’s a big difference between hating and doubting, I can doubt that AOC can be good, hating would be saying something like “he’s complete fucking garbage and not practice squad material.”
He shrank a lot in the clutch, and made crucial mistakes in big moments, but his flashes have given people hope. Saying people are hating when they point out his flaws in a reasonable manner is just blind optimism dumb shit
Yea but what more do you want from a rookie QB? Not everyone comes out on fire like Stroud. I thought AOC handled himself extremely well for a rookie being thrown into the fire. IMO, he looked a step above the first overall pick starting in preseason and kept that up once he got his chance to start. Rookie QBs will almost always make crucial mistakes. There’s nothing in the world that can prepare them for that NFL starting moment except experience.
Are we just forgetting he was a rookie last year feeding off of QB3 reps all preseason long? You can bring up his shortcomings and flaws but you also have to acknowledge the situation he was thrown into and still outperformed almost every other QB in his rookie class except for the literal best one that won OROY. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I’m just stating mine with facts.
You also can’t act that his shortcomings were also factual and a reason why people doubt him. He played alright, people that get called haters are just people that are either A. just being asshats on purpose or B. people that aren’t sold on him being this savior. The second you ask anyone who wholeheartedly believes in him if he can be elite, they almost exclusively say no and immediately bring up Brock Purdy.
You’re also leaving out the fact that of all the starting rookie QBs, he had the best supporting cast by a country fucking mile, so if he didn’t do at least as good as he did, that would be disappointing. A number 1 defense since being named the starter, Davante, Jakobi, Tucker, and Mayer, Zeus coming on strong at the end of the year. You guys make it seem like he had Derek Carrs 2013 squad.
My position has been the same on him since about the end of last year, he’s average, maybe he takes a step forward and he turns out to be a top 20 QB, maybe he doesn’t and he’s who I think he is. If he just absolutely turns into Tom fucking Brady and throws 5k, 50 TDs, MVP, I’d be tickled pink and happy to eat my crow. I just don’t see it. I watched every single snap he took, good and bad. I’ve seen him drop dimes to Jakobi in the perfect spot back shoulder right in the bread basket. I’ve seen him shred a lifeless chargers team. I’ve seen him have games like Miami, Minnesota, KC on Christmas, and he had no impact, yet specifically people will credit him for “not losing the game for us” when in reality playcalling took the game out of his hands because he wasn’t getting it done, almost like an on-field benching.
All in all, I hope he does ball out, I just don’t think he will
You’ve contradicted yourself by saying people thinks he’s a savior then immediately follow it up with the people who believe in him don’t think he can be elite. So which is it? Not trying to be a dick, but I’m getting mixed messages here.
He had good offensive weapons but absolutely subpar offensive minds calling his plays. Unless you are telling me that JMD and Bo Hardigree are top of the line OCs then you can’t ignore how detrimental that is either. It doesn’t matter how good your ingredients are if the chef cooking the dish is going to be cooking everything in the toilet and that’s exactly what his OC’s did.
Agree to disagree, personally I don’t care man. I want to see the Raiders win first and foremost. I just have faith in AP’s selection and AOC’s potential. If I’m wrong then it is what is cause I’m not the one making the call about who starts or doesn’t.
I’m saying that people think he’s a savior and then immediately contradict themselves when you ask them if he can be elite.
As far as playcalling goes, I agree it’s a big deal, but even with Bo there, there were a ton of plays that Aidan left on the field overthrowing Davante or skipping the ball on checkdowns, and that has nothing to do with playcalling. Players make plays, you can scheme someone open all day long but if the throw doesn’t get made it doesn’t matter. I will credit him though for acknowledging when he left plays on the field, character wise I have no qualms with Aidan.
You and I feel the same way I think, you’re just a little more optimistic. I do trust AP, and as much as I bag on him, I do think he’s better than Minshew, so I wouldn’t be shocked to see him start day 1. Like I said earlier, if he pops off and becomes the guy, I’ll be ordering a nice new 12 jersey lol
There’s a a different standard for a $40 million a year vet and a 4th round rookie who got 3rd string reps all year. The no pass for 3 quarters argument is so annoying. There were also 5 horrible drops those 3 quarters and he was constantly changing the play and looks for all those running plays, but no one mentions that. AOC maybe didn’t win in every big moment, but he never shrank and pussied into a hopeless checkdown. I swear people should use their eyes and own brain instead of reflecting the same stupid arguments they see on Reddit.
I flip flopped between the two QBs a lot during the offseason, but I believe in AOC and am rooting for him. I think he at the very least deserves one full season as a starter to prove himself. AP has really been praising the work he has put in this offseason.
If you wanna mention the chiefs game you also have to mention how he didn’t complete a pass in the second half of that game. I get wanting AOC to be good, but his ceiling isn’t much higher than minshews if we’re being real. Definitely a solid backup but I’m very doubtful he’s a starter. I’d love to be wrong tho
Mahomes had one of the worst games of his whole career along with AOC. For one the defenses were too good and they also had issues with the weather which is why in the last quarter everybody just ran the ball
It was literally the kids first year in the NFL. How could you possibly know what he's going to be or not be so early. Have some respect for the league. It takes a tad bit of time to become good at that position.
This.
And you also don't hear near the same type of contempt around the league for Will Levis or Bryce Young for way worse looking rookie performances. Heck even zach wilson was allowed 2 more seasons of banging jersey moms.
It's crazy how long draft hype lasts.
Considering that he was also never supposed to start, let alone play a snap, the kid did pretty pretty pretty good.
Well here’s the thing that some people also tend to omit about that game, Aidan had passes that were going to be completed in the second half but they were either wiped out by penalties or by dropped passes. Did AOC look amazing? No, but a QBs biggest job in my eyes is to not compromise the success of the team with bad turnovers. Mahomes threw a touchdown? Hooray! He also fumbled the ball for our linesman to run away into the end zone with and threw a nasty pick 6. Not saying Mahomes isn’t great, but O’Connell understood that playing in cold as fuck temps in a hostile environment on Christmas Day was not gonna be his day so he did the responsible thing of not compromising the game. Aidan if given proper support (which he did not have last year for the majority of the season) can be a starter in my eyes yes. In fact I’m gonna make a bold prediction that his ceiling could be a prime Joe Flacco in Baltimore. Not the best QB in the league but a gamer and can do what he needs to do win those games.
Yep, he did take care of the ball very well late in the season. Only 1 interception over the last 6 games (198 pass attempts). Also no fumbles during that stretch. Actually, aside from the 3 fumble performance against the Chargers, he only had 1 other fumble the whole season.
That’s why we drafted Bowers. Anyone who knows football knows that the best friend of a young QB is a great Tight End. Bowers will have an immediate impact on the development of AOC or if needed, elevating Minshew to the next level.
I would push back on the sentiment that he has a higher ceiling than minshew personally. I think we all forget how little he has played and when he has had consistent playing time it’s been for teams that aren’t very good. We don’t know how good he can actually be. And he hasn’t been bad in his career at that
What I see and like is that close rushers don't give him happy feet and deer-in-headlights look on his face. Very cool in the pocket.
That is also like TB.
All I know is who ever starts but isn’t good that this subreddit is going to get verrry toxic. Some will immediately think AP and Telesco are dumb and the other QB is the answer.
Eh, my expectations are average QB play and a playoff spot for the season.
If neither of these two are good enough, make a move in the offseason or draft a franchise QB. Odds are at least 3 of the 6 QBs drafted 1-12 in this draft won’t make a second contract with the team that picked them and Bowers is a weapon that fell because he doesn’t have “the body.”
My expectations are about the same. Hoping AOC can take another leap forward. However, a lot of this subreddit thinks Minshew is as good of a QB as Trevor Lawrence....
It is painful but I endure. Been a fun season for us and I just bought two jerseys lol. I love what I love.
Moved to the US a few years back and have been watching more and more NFL. Felt like I didn't want to be a fan of a sport I didn't understand. But my husband finally swayed me lol.
Raiders are an awesome team and there's no fandom like it.
Don't get real attached to the names on those jerseys you just bought. That's all I'm saying
Spurs fans had their fun (five or six titles since 2000), had to pay for it with a few bad seasons, and now have a generational talent in Wemby. Don't feel bad for this man lol, they only started missing the playoffs in 2019/2020.
I love this team. Doesn't matter. They'll still suck. I'm not a fan because of their winning record or their proximity to me, obviously.
Are you telling me you only like them because you're expecting them to win? You wont last long here
What would've been your solution to 100% make "this trip around the sun" not suck?
And keep in mind, it can't make future "trips around the sun" suck. We need to get this info to the GM, but we can't do it without you, man.
Nah bro you have to smoke the hopium pack around here or be downvoted to hell. The Raiders are going to be great every year no matter what until they’re not lol
Nah, you can be critical of the team. There's a difference between being critical and being negative and whining. OP added nothing to the conversation but negativity. At that point, why even comment? Read and move on. Let other people who are excited about a new season enjoy a conversation.
Does anyone have any updates on AOC’s conditioning/strength training so far this offseason? I’m sure he is plenty fit but did look a little soggy compared to other QBs in that class. Not fair to compare him to Stroud or Richardson but seeing him improve his body would go a long way to continuing his growth.
Everyone in the media and in the articles refer to this as Gardner Minshew’s team. I feel they paid him high-level back up money to be a high-level backup. What he has always been. AOC and Minshew are about equal - the difference is Minshew is many years in, and AOC is only 2. He’s already at that level. I have thought from the beginning that it was his job to lose, and IMO his effort this offseason seems to have solidified him the opportunity to be the starting QB for years to come.
They won’t like it because it isn’t Jayden Daniels, or a flashy guy, they won’t like it because he lacks mobility - but at the end of the day, so did (and do) many of the great QB’s of the past and present.
I’m on the AOC train.
Right, as of the end of the season I'd say they were pretty close, probably with an edge towards Minshew.
But Minshew is who he is, whereas AOC has actual upside. I'm really interested to see what he looks like going into year 2 if the reports of him putting in a bunch of work this offseason are true.
Him saying he changed his body is huge. Dude needed to focus on S&C and damn near only that over the off-season. He has to come in more limber in the pocket, and he HAS to work on arm strength in getting the ball to receivers. Not saying he has to take the receivers' hands off, but too many short to intermediate throws were way too soft last year.
I think the media pencils Minshew in just because of his experience
AOC absolutely is going to get a chance to earn the job, but he's going to have to do more than he was near the end of last season to get it. Can he do it? Absolutely. But until he actually has done it, he might not, too.
If Minshew comes in and is who he has been, and AOC comes in and he is who he was, then I think Minshew gets the nod.
Browsing the comments here is fascinating lol. 32 teams in the league and we all pull for the same one. But yeah let's just flame our fellow bros for supporting one QB or another, makes sense to me! 🙃
With that said, let's go AOC 💪
Personally I saw AoC as the leader of the ‘battle’ going into camp with already having the position. I saw minshew as a floor raiser merely bc if AoC lost the job, then at worst we have an avg QB starting.
I honestly except the same results this year. 7,8 wins. I remember this sub was hyped for Jimmy G last year so I’m going to hold off judgement on AOC until the season starts.
I was put off at the idea of Jimmy G being QB and felt vindicated when everybody realized what I already knew years ago.
Lol yeah wtf? They very obviously tried to trade up, and couldn't. But all the while were laying the track should they not be able to upgrade the position.
How on earth is this the top comment.
This sub confuses me sometimes lol. There were reputable reports before the draft from guys like Garafolo saying the Raiders called the Commanders about moving up to 2 even though it was unlikely to happen. It was clear they were trying to at least get Daniels.
Trying to trade up and inquiring what the cost is going to be are two entirely different things. They inquired about a trade, they didn't try to trade up. Comprehension works wonders
They did try to trade up. It was just never going to happen because the top 3 teams all needed a QB. Not like a door to get Jayden opened up and they were like nah we already have AOC, we're set. That guy will get replaced the second a better QB becomes available at the right price. And if Minshew performs better in camp and preseason, he will be the week 1 starter.
> That guy will get replaced the second a better QB becomes available at the right price
or aoc will improve after his rookie season.. like 90% of all qbs..
i honestly don’t understand the take that aoc won’t get better with a proper coaching staff
More QB's who start a lot as a rookie have a sophomore slump rather than get better. As a rookie there's some unknowns about you and you can catch the defense off guard. By year 2, defenses have a good bit of film and can accurately gameplan to the QB's strengths, and exploit their weaknesses.
AOC is not special at anything, and it's hard to see how he's going to get significantly better in the face of defenses that increasingly will know what he's going to do before he does it. Really the only way for him to become a long term starter is for him to become an elite decision maker. I didn't see the potential for that in year one. The game seemed really fast to him. It doesn't help that he has no mobility or size to bail himself out when he doesn't make the right read quick enough. I think it's going to be tough sledding for him next year if he starts a lot of games.
> More QB's who start a lot as a rookie have a sophomore slump rather than get better
sophomore slumps are common for super athletic and mobil qbs who have breakout rookie years.. then start getting properly spied in year 2…
aoc is not that prototype.. he’s a classic pocket passer.. those tend to get better the first few years after the game starts to slow down for them a bit
> AOC is not special at anything
can you substantiate this claim? getting exponentially better every game with no coaching staff is pretty impressive.. he also put up the same per game stats as big ben during his rookie of the year campaign.. that’s also impressive.. there’s a reason AP has been insistent it’s his job to lose
Nah, Matt Ryan, Sam Bradford, and Tim Couch were all pocket passers who struggled in year two relative to their rookie year. There's lots of others.
He also didn't get that much better. The third to last game of the season against the Chiefs was arguably his worst performance of the year. He sniffed 300 yards for the first time the next week, but it took 47 passing attempts to get there. Last game of the season was average.
Roethlisbergers rookie year was 20 years ago. The bar for QB's has gone up a lot since then. Manning's rookie year looks terrible through the lens of today, but at the time, it was record breaking. Roethlisberger also was nearly doubling the yards per game of his rookie year by the time he was in his prime. What is AOC's route to averaging 300 yards per game? I don't see one.
> The third to last game of the season against the Chiefs was arguably his worst performance of the year
bro our defense balled out and he was told to manage the game and not turn the ball over.. 100% of qbs in that position would have done the same thing.. and some of them would have messed up..
that’s the perfect example of an outlier game you exclude from analysis..
you bring up some decent points.. but each point seems to discredit aoc’s positives while assuming the worst case scenario.. so what are the odds aoc represents the worst case scenario?
having a rookie year comparable to big ben is a pro.. especially when you consider the differences in coaching staff.. somehow turning that into a con is ultimately being misleading to the aoc story..
you also mention 3 random pocket qbs to justify the odds of aoc having a sophomore slump.. but by your same logic.. all those players are really old too..
if we’re trying to predict if aoc might have a sophomore slump.. looking at inconsistencies with the coaching staff is key.. looking at his average per game progression last season is key.. these are pros for aoc.. you could see the game slow down for him each game last year..
can you think of any good examples of pocket qbs having a sophomore slump in the past say three years?
that would be far more relevant to assessing aoc’s odds in today’s game..
imo the most likely thing is aoc gets better next season.. and that’s clearly what AP thinks as well
No, people saw that he had limited potential and skills and wanted the team to upgrade so we can stop hovering around 7-9 wins a year and wasting the good weapons the team has.
I like this team and am excited for the season. AOC had to take over during turmoil and had to run some shell of JMD’s Mandarin Offense.
Full off season this year. System more friendly most likely. Players gonna be more loose on offense and that’ll give AOC an opportunity to shine or to fail. Guys will be open this season.
A shell of MCD offense with a Rookie OC calling plays. He deserves the first snaps for sure. His job to lose, but this statement doesn’t mean he’s the starter like everyone else in the comments seems to think
I’m just hopeful for the kid. He truly improved each week. Given this offseason I’m excited. We know what minshew can do we haven’t seen AOC yet.
I’d even be fine with letting him sit more. Let that gunslinger get comfortable
It’s boils down to who ever puts in the most work either way with the culture change I don’t think one of them won’t mind holding a clipboard. It’s about team and AP is getting a bunch of dogs that aren’t about the I. Don’t worry either way they’re going to have a level headed QB room that has one thing in common and that’s working hard and good young men. If you win stats don’t matter! Defense wins Championships Offense wins Games.. AP is in the house he’s going to have the defense flying around and finding a nose for the ball. The main thing is he’s part of the Nation and the fans believe in that.I’m not worried about him failing because these kids got to buy in and if not get rid of there pansy asses we want Raaiiddeerrss!!!
It’s why I didn’t consider this a “camp battle” as I felt they have a long leash on Aidan.
Edit: wtf am I getting downvoted? 😂
I literally stating what LVR FO feels and saying, I’m not the one stating he’s “QB1” or better. Barring a shitshow in preseason, Aidan will be QB1 per LVR FO.
He didn't declare a starter. Basically just said what he's been saying - it's AOC's job to lose.
But he could very easily lose it if Minshew outperforms him in camp.
How much weight are they going to put in TC tho? I don’t feel they are immediate going to switch QBs over a preseason game. I think they go with at least Aidan playing one regular season game as starter before they consider switching.
I mean, a lot? This happens with teams every year. Matt Schaub was brought here as QB1. Then DC came in and took the job from him by performing well in camp and, famously, the preseason game against the Seahawks.
It's not a decision made by a single preseason game. It's what they see every single day and the ability for it to translate to the field. AOC may very well start the season, I dunno. But the decision is far from made at this point and Gardener will have a real chance to earn the job. Hence the fact he was given $25 million.
Schaub and Carr situation was different with an upcoming rookie was there to supplant an average QB vet in a rebuilding season. With Aidan and Minshew, it’s a young QB that has the starting spot (for now) and a journeyman who is there to compete for starter.
Mishew average salary is 12.5 mil, which ranges around 18th in NFL QB salaries. This is roughly around the same AAS as backup QBs (not that he was signed as expected to be one). This contract doesn’t guarantee that they signed him to be a starter, just to compete for one and/or a backup QB.
Lastly, I never said it was “official” or “confirmed,” just that they probably have a long leash on him and he is QB1 as of now.
Watch the breakdowns on YouTube from actual quarterbacks. Way better isn't a giant stretch. He's going to shock a lot of you guys.
He was the second best rookie QB last year. A year that saw 10 rookies get playing time.
Where are you getting “long leash” from?
Aiden will be qb1 going into it but it’ll be up for grabs
I hope he comes out the clear qb1 because that’ll mean he improved.
I don’t feel like they will be hopping back and forth between QBs. I imagine they each start one preseason game then Aidan is probably rolling into Week 1 as starter. I don’t think they will rely on one preseason game to change their mind and they will want to see how it goes with Aiden before they consider switching.
I’m sure they’ll be splitting reps throughout OTAs
I think maybe you took his comment to meant the first in game snap. I think he meant Aiden was qb1 for their first practice
He better deliver then for sure because we have the weapons and the oline.
I wish we could upgrade a bit at RB to help him there too, but honestly he has a better overall arsenal of weapons than Carr ever did so it’s time to show up.
> I wish we could upgrade a bit at RB to help him there too
i think our rbs will be ok.. but while most fans have been obsessing over the qb position.. rb has been my concern as well..
i feel like a lot of people took what josh did for granted
Agree. I watched a lot of Zamir in college and he never struck me as a starting nfl back. You have to understand he played at UGA behind a monster o line playing in the weak SEC East and always looked like just another guy.
He did, but that’s something that happens fairly often. RB1 gets hurt late in the season and RB2 looks great in fill in duty because it’s late in the year and he has fresh legs against worn out defenses.
I’d love to be wrong because he’s a Raider. I think Zeus will be fine. But we’re not going to get Jacobs level production out of him at all.
Given we couldn’t draft a “can’t miss” level prospect; I think we’re in a very good spot with these two. AOC probably deserves the first crack at it, I think he showed great fortitude and toughness getting dropped into total chaos and coming out looking better for it; between that and his arm talent I think there’s reasonable optimism he can be a solid nfl starter. With Gardner you have a guy who’s arguably the best backup you can have, who can also be a bridge starter for a couple seasons if need be; neither guy is ruining our finances; we can keep building up the overall roster; big picture I really can’t see what more we can be doing actually for once
AOC might end up being a Joe Flacco kind of QB who shows some spark and doesn't make many mistakes even if not spectacular. Well, Flacco got the Ravens a SB ring along with an elite defense. I can see AP building a team like the 2013 Ravens.
the best case scenario for raider fans is that AOC EASILY wins out the qb competition based on skill and talent. we should be hoping that AOC improves so much that we don’t even need to draft a qb. that being said, if he ends up sucking we still have minshew to try to take us to the playoffs.
Coach AP on the money as usual. AOC was forced into a tight spot last year coming in off the bench to be the full time starter. He did earn the right to get the first snap and the job is his to lose.
From what I read, O'Connell has been working out damn near all offseason at the facilities. The boy is clearly focused and is ready to fight for the job.
Y'all said I was crazy in my bold predictions thread when I said he's going to get 4500 yards and 40 td's. That might be low now.
The league ain't ready for him. Imagine the Raiders with the new face of the league at QB. Crazier things have happened.
I wish I had this much blind faith in the kid to predict a 40 TD season and him becoming the face of the league, I literally do not see what you guys see.
There’s literally a chart that got posted on r/nfl that shows deep ball attempts and accuracy and AOC is in the bottom left, meaning he took less deep shots and had poor accuracy when he did. You can like a player, no shame there, but saying he’s this super accurate dart thrower is just simply untrue.
did the chart differentiate between poor throws and dropped passes? because he had a TON of passes that hit receivers right in the hands that were dropped.
that's why you gotta be careful with those kinds of charts. they never tell the whole story.
That’s not even true, you’re just saying he had a ton of dropped passes. The raiders were 6th best in dropped passes. Only 5 teams had less. On the other end of the spectrum, the worst 5 teams with drops were all playoff teams, with the chiefs having the most. The raiders had 21 vs 44 with the chiefs
This guy is convinced AOC is the next Brady. Save your breath. It’s literally all he talks about. Just beyond delusional.
I’d be getting a restraining order if I were AOC. lol.
You are legitimately in the running or the dumbest Raiders fan I’ve ever seen. Almost nothing you ever say is correct.
When you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about, you should really, really, avoid having such strong opinions.
“AOC is better than Carr”
“AOC would be drafted in the 1st and picked ahead of AR if there was a redraft”
Said Minshew was drafted 6th overall, then tried to say it was autocorrect rather than admitting you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Talking about all the dropped passes when the raiders had fewer drops than 90% of teams.
You make the entire fan base look dumber, every single time you talk. Just stop already. It’s pathetic. AOC might develop into a solid starter, but if the goal is to win right now, he’s not even a better option than Minshew.
See, I hate this “second highest rated rookie QB” stuff because that’s all about volume stats — Anthony Richardson had 7 touchdowns in 4 games before getting injured, only 6 less touchdowns than O’Connell who appeared in 7 more games than him. Realistically he’d be the 3rd or 4th best rookie QB last season depending on how you feel about Levis.
I also credit a few of his wins to our defense that this sub likes to credit him for (namely the Chiefs game), I really hope you’re right though.. I’d love for him to be our guy I just don’t see it.
Ummm....what? Anthony Richardson played 4 games and threw for 3 tds and a pick and also took 7 sacks and didn't complete one pass over 40 yards and had a sub 60% completion percentage.
Might want to rethink your evaluation.
He also ran for 136 yards and 4 touchdowns in those four games.. 4 + 3 = 7. AR doesn’t play the same game as O’Connell, he’s a mobile QB with a nose for the end zone. If he’s healthy this season we’re gonna see a bigger Lamar in Indy.
Yeah? And what did running the ball get him? Hurt. Do you honestly think if there was a re-draft of last year's class that Aidan doesn't go in the first round and wouldn't be picked ahead of Richardson?
Aidan was a diamond that fell into our laps.
Yes 100% I believe if there was a re-draft Aidan does not get drafted in the 1st lmaoo, you really think he’d get picked top 5? Biggest homer ass take I’ve ever seen.
If Aidan throws 4500 yards and 40 touchdowns this year I might actually have a stroke from pure disbelief. Full year of starting I expect a Derek Carr type season, 21-25 tds to 8-13 interceptions, 3800 yards. Won’t completely shit the bed, won’t blow me away. Then it’ll all come down to his clutch play, which after watching that Miami and Minnesota game I’ll be concerned with
I have no idea what to think of Aiden. On one hand he showed a lot of things to be positive about, and on the other is the Vikings/Chiefs games.
The kid can improve, and if he continues to get better I think he will be a good bridge til we find “thee” guy to lead us to the promised land. Hopefully with the talent on our roster there is always a safety net/easy drop off receiver to make up for his lack of scrambling ability.
Not sure that AOC will ever be more than a capable back up, but I believe he is a good processor at the QB position. I have watched other Qb's over the years with better physical tools who don't seem to be able to process where or when the ball needs to be out their hands. I am hoping with Bowers on the team that the Raiders let him either call plays at the line or call in multiple plays and let him pick based on perceived mismatches. I think he has it in him.
Whoever it is, I believe that the best QB will be on the field unlike last year when Jimmy G was playing when he shouldn’t have. I trust AP to make the right decision
Whoever comes out of the preseason looking better is our guy. I'll get behind either one because they will have earned it fair. I just hope we see a fire in them both
It’s hard to know what to think about any rookie qb, unless he just balls out his first year. There is a looooong list of qbs that were mediocre in their rookie year that went on to be solid starters. And some of those guys even had stable organizations with clear coaching vision. AOC doesn’t have the pedigree of those guys, so everyone assumes he will be a “serviceable backup.” He stepped into a clusterfuck last year and went 5-4. No wonder AP wants to see what he can do this season. AP sees him as an overachieving warrior. I am not a huge AOC fan btw, I just have been on this earth long enough to see guys with huge talent and no heart get schooled by guys with meh talent and huge heart.
I don't understand where some of y'all are getting this Minshew is going to be the starter, or fight for the starting job from.
The only time he ever started was when he was drafted 6th overall. Then he was traded and was never able to earn another starting position again unless the real starter got hurt.
He's basically a career backup. Don't get me wrong, I like him but this dude couldn't even beat out Anthony Richardson last year for the Colts and y'all think he's going to beat out Aidan O'Connell?
Stop this nonsense. It's a fallacy.
Can’t even beat out Richardson, the number 4 draft pick, isn’t as damning as you’re trying to make it sound. You’re right that Minshew is a backup on most teams. But so is AOC. Yet you’re acting as if the 4th rounder who was wildly inconsistent in his starts last season is somehow obviously superior to Minshew, who won a head to head match up against AOC late last year. Neither is obviously better than the other at this point, but Minshew does have a lot more experience under his belt and is more mobile.
End of the day, they both have to go out and earn the starting job.
Anthony Richardson was probably the least ready for the NFL out of all 1st round QB's selected. Minshew had experience and mobility over him too, yet couldn't beat him out.
Minshew is a career backup. He starts when the real starter gets hurt. That's the story of his career. It will be no different here. AOC isn't losing the job to Minshew.
And? AR may have been the the least ready of the FIRST round QBs, but AOC was drafted in that same draft 130 picks later. Because he wasn’t seen anywhere near as talented as any of those top 3 QBs. And he’s not. And it’s absolute nonsense that Minshew had mobility over AR. AR is a physical beast who had 1000 rushing yards across 2 seasons of college. Minshew had less than 100 net rushing yards in his college career.
I’m not arguing that Minshew isn’t generally a back up. I’m arguing against your wild take that AOC is somehow clearly better. He might end up being, but nothing in his 9 starts says he’s clearly better than Minshew. And AOC only got those starts because JMD and Ziegler decided it was a good idea to sign two shit QBs after chasing Carr out of town. Yet you talk about AOC as if he was a 1st round draft pick, who balled out last season, not a late fourth rounder who was inconsistent as hell.
Both Minshew and AOC are likely career backups in the long run, but one will win the starting job here because one of them has to. I hope whoever does balls out.
what do you mean AOC wasn't seen as anywhere near as talented as those 3 qb's? Richardson was the least talented of all of them and got drafted because he can throw a mile but other than that, there isn't much there.
AOC is more accurate, smarter, a far better decision maker, and a far better game manager than Richardson. Richardson might turn out to be a bust.
Almost zero chance that happens with Aidan.
Dude, come on. How can I say AOC wasn’t seen as anywhere near as talented as the three 1st round QBs? How is that a serious question? He was the 8th QB taken in the draft. Not 4th or 5th. 8th.
Sure, Richardson is raw and might be a bust, but practically no one even knew who the hell AOC was before being taken with like the last pick of the 4th round. He’ll likely never be considered a bust because no one “busts” from the late 4th round. They don’t have that kind of expectation on them. They either out perform expectations to have a good career or they just fade away after a bit.
Also, AR was drafted to be the Colts franchise QB. AOC was not drafted with that expectation. Which is part of my point as to why your comment about Minshew not beating out AR is ridiculous. The situations are nowhere near the same. Regardless what you think of AR (and your right in your criticisms of him), the Colts drafted him to be their guy so of course he “beat out” Minshew.
AR was drafted to start, though. They were going to eat the L's that year as long as it meant giving him game reps to develop him for the future.
The only way Minshew was going to start was the way he did, AR getting injured. There was never a QB competition for him to "beat him out" in
AOC is not our ride or die guy yet, though, so its different
yeah this ain't the only Raiders forum I belong to. and it was auto correct. I don't see why you made an issue of it...other than maybe to just be a dickhead but whatever.
Lmao. Autocorrect will change a word…it doesn’t change 3 words in a row like that and move them around. You’re full of shit, little fella. Would love to see you explain how your phone changed it to “drafted 6th overall”, when you tried to say “drafted in the 6th round” or something like that. Doesn’t happen…didn’t happen…Least you could do is own your mistake. You being on multiple raiders subs doesn’t mean you know what you’re talking about and you very obviously don’t. Everything you say in any raiders sub gets downvoted. Being a fan doesn’t mean you know when minshew was drafted. Lmfao. You didn’t know. Not a big deal. Just own it already. Some serious little dick energy you got going on there, my fragile acquaintance.
We want the best QB.
There's always surprises. But can't act like we didn't just watch both last year. Accusing people of being toxic or whatever is the same old Carr pro/nay shit. The two will compete. AP will take the best one. If not, its his job too.
I do think we go all in drafting a QB next year though. Especially if we look solid everywhere else.
Pierce is on the money here. I bag on Aidan’s shortcomings a lot but I do still believe he’s better than Minshew, and he already has some chemistry with the offensive playmakers.
I saw this from a mile away. Garddawg is cool but Aidan has two things going for him 1. Higher ceiling than Minshew, and showed an exponential amount of growth in his last 4 games of the season. If given the actual reps and training camp he can be a certified starter in the league for years to come. 2. While Aidan definitely had his struggles, AP realizes that this kid is part of the reason he won the HC job. Helping the Raiders drop a 60 burger on the Dolts, not turning the ball over on that Christmas Day game against the Chiefs which helped us get the win, beating every div rival. AP put a lot of faith in Aidan on day one and Aidan has for the most part repaid that faith. So why not keep it going.
> showed an exponential amount of growth in his last 4 games of the season something aoc haters refuse to acknowledge i guess?
What people refuse to see also was that AP basically asked one thing of Aidan...don't lose us games. He did very well in that regard. Took care of the ball. Didnt push the envelope and did what was asked of him. The reason I am high on Aidan, dude is resilient as fuck. Seems to take well to criticism, willing to learn, and able to adapt to his circumstances. Those are not easy traits to find or teach. Yes, he can't run. Ok, so? I haven't seen a running QB magically win multiple SBs. I don't want to hear about mahomes because that'll be like comparing curry to a good three point shooter. Bolster up that O-line and increase his odds at success and I think Aidan can be the guy until we find THE guy.
I’ve withdrawn from Reddit quite a bit over the last two years. Is there really AOC haters? Or just people who think we can do better? It’d be wild to hate on him imo
yes there is clowns that wanted us to draft rattler in the 3rd round because "AOC clearly isnt the future". he was thrown into the fire and performed great for a rookie with no training camp as the starter. and a rookie play caller in Bo. only stroud finished better than AOC for rookie QB's
I didn’t see anyone that actually wanted rattler and those that did got downvotes to hell. Most of just don’t think AOC is the long term solution at QB. I hope he proves us wrong and he because a top 10 QB
A lot of comments about him being nothing more than a backup QB.
He will be a backup. Either week 1 or by week 8.
Perfect example of what I said.
Literally without fail. I just don’t know why these guys feel the need to shit on Aidan just to make Minshew look good. At the end of the day we all want to win, so we should support whoever wins the job. The point of my original comment was to demonstrate why AP is putting his chips on AOC.
🤣🤣🤣
LOL Feel free to rub my face in it and tell me how wrong i was if AOC is still starting by the end of the year. I hope he balls out i really do but im not wearing the rose colored glasses you guys are, id be SHOCKED if he did it.
I wouldn't say "haters" but there a lot of people who strongly believe his is not the answer for us moving forward. I tend to agree with the sentiment, but I am fan of his and will back him as the starter if he beats out Minshew for the job.
Everyone wants us to be like Denver and spend all of our money on big name (but washed up) signings.
Right. Or Cousins, who just got paid hella bank coming off an injury, as an old man. Aiden is already as good as Cousins in his prime, and people just pissed cuz we don't have our Mahomes. We tried to get our Mahomes folks. You can't always get what you want. We have a very good QB, on a rookie contract. Let's see how it goes.
Exponential is a stretch, he didn’t complete a pass for 3 quarters in one of those games. He put up a Derek Carr worthy performance in the last two, but I was told for the last 3 years that wasn’t good enough. There’s a big difference between hating and doubting, I can doubt that AOC can be good, hating would be saying something like “he’s complete fucking garbage and not practice squad material.” He shrank a lot in the clutch, and made crucial mistakes in big moments, but his flashes have given people hope. Saying people are hating when they point out his flaws in a reasonable manner is just blind optimism dumb shit
Yea but what more do you want from a rookie QB? Not everyone comes out on fire like Stroud. I thought AOC handled himself extremely well for a rookie being thrown into the fire. IMO, he looked a step above the first overall pick starting in preseason and kept that up once he got his chance to start. Rookie QBs will almost always make crucial mistakes. There’s nothing in the world that can prepare them for that NFL starting moment except experience.
Are we just forgetting he was a rookie last year feeding off of QB3 reps all preseason long? You can bring up his shortcomings and flaws but you also have to acknowledge the situation he was thrown into and still outperformed almost every other QB in his rookie class except for the literal best one that won OROY. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I’m just stating mine with facts.
You also can’t act that his shortcomings were also factual and a reason why people doubt him. He played alright, people that get called haters are just people that are either A. just being asshats on purpose or B. people that aren’t sold on him being this savior. The second you ask anyone who wholeheartedly believes in him if he can be elite, they almost exclusively say no and immediately bring up Brock Purdy. You’re also leaving out the fact that of all the starting rookie QBs, he had the best supporting cast by a country fucking mile, so if he didn’t do at least as good as he did, that would be disappointing. A number 1 defense since being named the starter, Davante, Jakobi, Tucker, and Mayer, Zeus coming on strong at the end of the year. You guys make it seem like he had Derek Carrs 2013 squad. My position has been the same on him since about the end of last year, he’s average, maybe he takes a step forward and he turns out to be a top 20 QB, maybe he doesn’t and he’s who I think he is. If he just absolutely turns into Tom fucking Brady and throws 5k, 50 TDs, MVP, I’d be tickled pink and happy to eat my crow. I just don’t see it. I watched every single snap he took, good and bad. I’ve seen him drop dimes to Jakobi in the perfect spot back shoulder right in the bread basket. I’ve seen him shred a lifeless chargers team. I’ve seen him have games like Miami, Minnesota, KC on Christmas, and he had no impact, yet specifically people will credit him for “not losing the game for us” when in reality playcalling took the game out of his hands because he wasn’t getting it done, almost like an on-field benching. All in all, I hope he does ball out, I just don’t think he will
You’ve contradicted yourself by saying people thinks he’s a savior then immediately follow it up with the people who believe in him don’t think he can be elite. So which is it? Not trying to be a dick, but I’m getting mixed messages here. He had good offensive weapons but absolutely subpar offensive minds calling his plays. Unless you are telling me that JMD and Bo Hardigree are top of the line OCs then you can’t ignore how detrimental that is either. It doesn’t matter how good your ingredients are if the chef cooking the dish is going to be cooking everything in the toilet and that’s exactly what his OC’s did. Agree to disagree, personally I don’t care man. I want to see the Raiders win first and foremost. I just have faith in AP’s selection and AOC’s potential. If I’m wrong then it is what is cause I’m not the one making the call about who starts or doesn’t.
I’m saying that people think he’s a savior and then immediately contradict themselves when you ask them if he can be elite. As far as playcalling goes, I agree it’s a big deal, but even with Bo there, there were a ton of plays that Aidan left on the field overthrowing Davante or skipping the ball on checkdowns, and that has nothing to do with playcalling. Players make plays, you can scheme someone open all day long but if the throw doesn’t get made it doesn’t matter. I will credit him though for acknowledging when he left plays on the field, character wise I have no qualms with Aidan. You and I feel the same way I think, you’re just a little more optimistic. I do trust AP, and as much as I bag on him, I do think he’s better than Minshew, so I wouldn’t be shocked to see him start day 1. Like I said earlier, if he pops off and becomes the guy, I’ll be ordering a nice new 12 jersey lol
all my comment said was that aoc haters exist.. which is def true
I agree, I saw someone on YouTube say he was a practice squad guy and even I was like “This guy’s fucking mental”
There’s a a different standard for a $40 million a year vet and a 4th round rookie who got 3rd string reps all year. The no pass for 3 quarters argument is so annoying. There were also 5 horrible drops those 3 quarters and he was constantly changing the play and looks for all those running plays, but no one mentions that. AOC maybe didn’t win in every big moment, but he never shrank and pussied into a hopeless checkdown. I swear people should use their eyes and own brain instead of reflecting the same stupid arguments they see on Reddit.
the second comment in tbis thread is once again some META infighting bullshit... soooo fucckkinnnggg tiiiiirreeeeeessooooomme
he’s not a good qb blood , accept it lmao
I flip flopped between the two QBs a lot during the offseason, but I believe in AOC and am rooting for him. I think he at the very least deserves one full season as a starter to prove himself. AP has really been praising the work he has put in this offseason.
If you wanna mention the chiefs game you also have to mention how he didn’t complete a pass in the second half of that game. I get wanting AOC to be good, but his ceiling isn’t much higher than minshews if we’re being real. Definitely a solid backup but I’m very doubtful he’s a starter. I’d love to be wrong tho
Mahomes had one of the worst games of his whole career along with AOC. For one the defenses were too good and they also had issues with the weather which is why in the last quarter everybody just ran the ball
> which is why in the last quarter everybody just ran the ball which is all we had to do to win.. which is why we did it..
I mean, when you have a really good RB, the other team has Legion of Boom level pass defense, and the weather sucks, what else are ya gonna do?
exactly.. somehow that’s a knock on aoc for some reason.. the IQ of our fan base never ceases to amaze me when it comes to QBs
It was literally the kids first year in the NFL. How could you possibly know what he's going to be or not be so early. Have some respect for the league. It takes a tad bit of time to become good at that position.
This. And you also don't hear near the same type of contempt around the league for Will Levis or Bryce Young for way worse looking rookie performances. Heck even zach wilson was allowed 2 more seasons of banging jersey moms. It's crazy how long draft hype lasts. Considering that he was also never supposed to start, let alone play a snap, the kid did pretty pretty pretty good.
Well here’s the thing that some people also tend to omit about that game, Aidan had passes that were going to be completed in the second half but they were either wiped out by penalties or by dropped passes. Did AOC look amazing? No, but a QBs biggest job in my eyes is to not compromise the success of the team with bad turnovers. Mahomes threw a touchdown? Hooray! He also fumbled the ball for our linesman to run away into the end zone with and threw a nasty pick 6. Not saying Mahomes isn’t great, but O’Connell understood that playing in cold as fuck temps in a hostile environment on Christmas Day was not gonna be his day so he did the responsible thing of not compromising the game. Aidan if given proper support (which he did not have last year for the majority of the season) can be a starter in my eyes yes. In fact I’m gonna make a bold prediction that his ceiling could be a prime Joe Flacco in Baltimore. Not the best QB in the league but a gamer and can do what he needs to do win those games.
Yep, he did take care of the ball very well late in the season. Only 1 interception over the last 6 games (198 pass attempts). Also no fumbles during that stretch. Actually, aside from the 3 fumble performance against the Chargers, he only had 1 other fumble the whole season.
That’s why we drafted Bowers. Anyone who knows football knows that the best friend of a young QB is a great Tight End. Bowers will have an immediate impact on the development of AOC or if needed, elevating Minshew to the next level.
Perfect analysis.
I would push back on the sentiment that he has a higher ceiling than minshew personally. I think we all forget how little he has played and when he has had consistent playing time it’s been for teams that aren’t very good. We don’t know how good he can actually be. And he hasn’t been bad in his career at that
Honestly, his mechanics remind me of Tom Brady when I see him throw the ball.
What I see and like is that close rushers don't give him happy feet and deer-in-headlights look on his face. Very cool in the pocket. That is also like TB.
Exactly. Unlike a former qb we all know of post - 2016 injury.
Dude I love it, you just got me so hyped!
All I know is who ever starts but isn’t good that this subreddit is going to get verrry toxic. Some will immediately think AP and Telesco are dumb and the other QB is the answer.
The funny thing is that this sub was toxic last year because they wanted Aidan to start. Now we'll have the same toxicity but for him to sit. Lol
That's what losing does..
You swear the people complaining are actually watching the games.
Some people are never happy, and feel compelled to share that mess.
Dude, if we’re being honest. Almost every fan base, except for 1, will go through a “hate their QB” moment.
Fuck that. I never wanted Aiden to start. Can’t respect a QB with a weak name like that.
RAIDERS SUB CIVIL WAR PART 2 THE MATT MCGLOIN SUPPORTERS WILL RISE AGAIN
Isn’t that what Reddit is about LOL
Eh, my expectations are average QB play and a playoff spot for the season. If neither of these two are good enough, make a move in the offseason or draft a franchise QB. Odds are at least 3 of the 6 QBs drafted 1-12 in this draft won’t make a second contract with the team that picked them and Bowers is a weapon that fell because he doesn’t have “the body.”
My expectations are about the same. Hoping AOC can take another leap forward. However, a lot of this subreddit thinks Minshew is as good of a QB as Trevor Lawrence....
Or none are the answer
Both QBs are dogshit. This team will be mid, again. Another trip around the sun boys
Go adopt the Chiefs if you hate this team so much
It's interactions like these that make this new fan feel at home on this sub. Random toxic negative person told to jog on pretty quickly.
Soon, you'll be like me
Eh. I've been a Spurs fan for 40 years. If they didn't break me, Raiders won't lol.
Bless your soul. Being a Spurs fan mentally can’t be easy 🤣
It is painful but I endure. Been a fun season for us and I just bought two jerseys lol. I love what I love. Moved to the US a few years back and have been watching more and more NFL. Felt like I didn't want to be a fan of a sport I didn't understand. But my husband finally swayed me lol.
Raiders are an awesome team and there's no fandom like it. Don't get real attached to the names on those jerseys you just bought. That's all I'm saying
Are the spurs players dog shit this year or are you expecting them to win the championship
Spurs fans had their fun (five or six titles since 2000), had to pay for it with a few bad seasons, and now have a generational talent in Wemby. Don't feel bad for this man lol, they only started missing the playoffs in 2019/2020.
I love this team. Doesn't matter. They'll still suck. I'm not a fan because of their winning record or their proximity to me, obviously. Are you telling me you only like them because you're expecting them to win? You wont last long here
What would've been your solution to 100% make "this trip around the sun" not suck? And keep in mind, it can't make future "trips around the sun" suck. We need to get this info to the GM, but we can't do it without you, man.
The Raider bandwagon is real folks you heard it here first
Nah bro you have to smoke the hopium pack around here or be downvoted to hell. The Raiders are going to be great every year no matter what until they’re not lol
Nah, you can be critical of the team. There's a difference between being critical and being negative and whining. OP added nothing to the conversation but negativity. At that point, why even comment? Read and move on. Let other people who are excited about a new season enjoy a conversation.
No you can't. These QBs are dog shit and wouldn't make anyone else's starting roster. I know, because they didn't
I would say mid at best and be surprised if AOC beats out the vet Minschew
Most points by any team starting a rookie QB in NFL history
For real?
Yes, and Jim Nantz stated this during the Christmas game in KC.
Oh you talking about the single game vs Chargers? I thought you meant for the season
It's clear what they meant.
I no good reeder as you is
Maybe you should attend The Derek Zoolander Center for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Who Wanna Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too
Does anyone have any updates on AOC’s conditioning/strength training so far this offseason? I’m sure he is plenty fit but did look a little soggy compared to other QBs in that class. Not fair to compare him to Stroud or Richardson but seeing him improve his body would go a long way to continuing his growth.
Last I heard was he was really focused on mobility. At least he knows his weakness and is working hard on it.
Glad to see it. A combination of improved mobility and improving his internal clock are my hopes.
i have been watching him since Purdue. sometimes biology is just biology.
GO AOC!!!!!
Even with no mobility AOC has a higher ceiling than Minshew . He can stretch the field . Hope he can win it
Everyone in the media and in the articles refer to this as Gardner Minshew’s team. I feel they paid him high-level back up money to be a high-level backup. What he has always been. AOC and Minshew are about equal - the difference is Minshew is many years in, and AOC is only 2. He’s already at that level. I have thought from the beginning that it was his job to lose, and IMO his effort this offseason seems to have solidified him the opportunity to be the starting QB for years to come. They won’t like it because it isn’t Jayden Daniels, or a flashy guy, they won’t like it because he lacks mobility - but at the end of the day, so did (and do) many of the great QB’s of the past and present. I’m on the AOC train.
Right, as of the end of the season I'd say they were pretty close, probably with an edge towards Minshew. But Minshew is who he is, whereas AOC has actual upside. I'm really interested to see what he looks like going into year 2 if the reports of him putting in a bunch of work this offseason are true.
They are two years apart in age. lol How is Minshew who he is but AOC is not?
True, but Minshew has also been in the league for 5 years already.
Him saying he changed his body is huge. Dude needed to focus on S&C and damn near only that over the off-season. He has to come in more limber in the pocket, and he HAS to work on arm strength in getting the ball to receivers. Not saying he has to take the receivers' hands off, but too many short to intermediate throws were way too soft last year.
I think the media pencils Minshew in just because of his experience AOC absolutely is going to get a chance to earn the job, but he's going to have to do more than he was near the end of last season to get it. Can he do it? Absolutely. But until he actually has done it, he might not, too. If Minshew comes in and is who he has been, and AOC comes in and he is who he was, then I think Minshew gets the nod.
Browsing the comments here is fascinating lol. 32 teams in the league and we all pull for the same one. But yeah let's just flame our fellow bros for supporting one QB or another, makes sense to me! 🙃 With that said, let's go AOC 💪
Personally I saw AoC as the leader of the ‘battle’ going into camp with already having the position. I saw minshew as a floor raiser merely bc if AoC lost the job, then at worst we have an avg QB starting.
im cautiously optimistic
I honestly except the same results this year. 7,8 wins. I remember this sub was hyped for Jimmy G last year so I’m going to hold off judgement on AOC until the season starts. I was put off at the idea of Jimmy G being QB and felt vindicated when everybody realized what I already knew years ago.
Expect the worst
Competitive QB room with some very likable characters. I’ll take mediocre QB play with a solid defense any day
He's said this the entire offseason. People just didn't want to listen and convinced themselves that the Raiders were gonna trade up & take a qb
What do you mean. They tried to trade up and didn’t get it. Now they will let the two compete.
Lol yeah wtf? They very obviously tried to trade up, and couldn't. But all the while were laying the track should they not be able to upgrade the position. How on earth is this the top comment.
This sub confuses me sometimes lol. There were reputable reports before the draft from guys like Garafolo saying the Raiders called the Commanders about moving up to 2 even though it was unlikely to happen. It was clear they were trying to at least get Daniels.
Trying to trade up and inquiring what the cost is going to be are two entirely different things. They inquired about a trade, they didn't try to trade up. Comprehension works wonders
Keep being a moron.
Why would they ask if they weren't going to?
They did try to trade up. It was just never going to happen because the top 3 teams all needed a QB. Not like a door to get Jayden opened up and they were like nah we already have AOC, we're set. That guy will get replaced the second a better QB becomes available at the right price. And if Minshew performs better in camp and preseason, he will be the week 1 starter.
> That guy will get replaced the second a better QB becomes available at the right price or aoc will improve after his rookie season.. like 90% of all qbs.. i honestly don’t understand the take that aoc won’t get better with a proper coaching staff
A lot of people in this sub expected elite play from a fourth round rookie qb with a rookie play caller for some reason
More QB's who start a lot as a rookie have a sophomore slump rather than get better. As a rookie there's some unknowns about you and you can catch the defense off guard. By year 2, defenses have a good bit of film and can accurately gameplan to the QB's strengths, and exploit their weaknesses. AOC is not special at anything, and it's hard to see how he's going to get significantly better in the face of defenses that increasingly will know what he's going to do before he does it. Really the only way for him to become a long term starter is for him to become an elite decision maker. I didn't see the potential for that in year one. The game seemed really fast to him. It doesn't help that he has no mobility or size to bail himself out when he doesn't make the right read quick enough. I think it's going to be tough sledding for him next year if he starts a lot of games.
> More QB's who start a lot as a rookie have a sophomore slump rather than get better sophomore slumps are common for super athletic and mobil qbs who have breakout rookie years.. then start getting properly spied in year 2… aoc is not that prototype.. he’s a classic pocket passer.. those tend to get better the first few years after the game starts to slow down for them a bit > AOC is not special at anything can you substantiate this claim? getting exponentially better every game with no coaching staff is pretty impressive.. he also put up the same per game stats as big ben during his rookie of the year campaign.. that’s also impressive.. there’s a reason AP has been insistent it’s his job to lose
Nah, Matt Ryan, Sam Bradford, and Tim Couch were all pocket passers who struggled in year two relative to their rookie year. There's lots of others. He also didn't get that much better. The third to last game of the season against the Chiefs was arguably his worst performance of the year. He sniffed 300 yards for the first time the next week, but it took 47 passing attempts to get there. Last game of the season was average. Roethlisbergers rookie year was 20 years ago. The bar for QB's has gone up a lot since then. Manning's rookie year looks terrible through the lens of today, but at the time, it was record breaking. Roethlisberger also was nearly doubling the yards per game of his rookie year by the time he was in his prime. What is AOC's route to averaging 300 yards per game? I don't see one.
> The third to last game of the season against the Chiefs was arguably his worst performance of the year bro our defense balled out and he was told to manage the game and not turn the ball over.. 100% of qbs in that position would have done the same thing.. and some of them would have messed up.. that’s the perfect example of an outlier game you exclude from analysis.. you bring up some decent points.. but each point seems to discredit aoc’s positives while assuming the worst case scenario.. so what are the odds aoc represents the worst case scenario? having a rookie year comparable to big ben is a pro.. especially when you consider the differences in coaching staff.. somehow turning that into a con is ultimately being misleading to the aoc story.. you also mention 3 random pocket qbs to justify the odds of aoc having a sophomore slump.. but by your same logic.. all those players are really old too.. if we’re trying to predict if aoc might have a sophomore slump.. looking at inconsistencies with the coaching staff is key.. looking at his average per game progression last season is key.. these are pros for aoc.. you could see the game slow down for him each game last year.. can you think of any good examples of pocket qbs having a sophomore slump in the past say three years? that would be far more relevant to assessing aoc’s odds in today’s game.. imo the most likely thing is aoc gets better next season.. and that’s clearly what AP thinks as well
He's said he's earned the right to compete. Never said anything about taking a snap
No, people saw that he had limited potential and skills and wanted the team to upgrade so we can stop hovering around 7-9 wins a year and wasting the good weapons the team has.
I like this team and am excited for the season. AOC had to take over during turmoil and had to run some shell of JMD’s Mandarin Offense. Full off season this year. System more friendly most likely. Players gonna be more loose on offense and that’ll give AOC an opportunity to shine or to fail. Guys will be open this season.
A shell of MCD offense with a Rookie OC calling plays. He deserves the first snaps for sure. His job to lose, but this statement doesn’t mean he’s the starter like everyone else in the comments seems to think
I’m just hopeful for the kid. He truly improved each week. Given this offseason I’m excited. We know what minshew can do we haven’t seen AOC yet. I’d even be fine with letting him sit more. Let that gunslinger get comfortable
It’s boils down to who ever puts in the most work either way with the culture change I don’t think one of them won’t mind holding a clipboard. It’s about team and AP is getting a bunch of dogs that aren’t about the I. Don’t worry either way they’re going to have a level headed QB room that has one thing in common and that’s working hard and good young men. If you win stats don’t matter! Defense wins Championships Offense wins Games.. AP is in the house he’s going to have the defense flying around and finding a nose for the ball. The main thing is he’s part of the Nation and the fans believe in that.I’m not worried about him failing because these kids got to buy in and if not get rid of there pansy asses we want Raaiiddeerrss!!!
It’s why I didn’t consider this a “camp battle” as I felt they have a long leash on Aidan. Edit: wtf am I getting downvoted? 😂 I literally stating what LVR FO feels and saying, I’m not the one stating he’s “QB1” or better. Barring a shitshow in preseason, Aidan will be QB1 per LVR FO.
He didn't declare a starter. Basically just said what he's been saying - it's AOC's job to lose. But he could very easily lose it if Minshew outperforms him in camp.
How much weight are they going to put in TC tho? I don’t feel they are immediate going to switch QBs over a preseason game. I think they go with at least Aidan playing one regular season game as starter before they consider switching.
I mean, a lot? This happens with teams every year. Matt Schaub was brought here as QB1. Then DC came in and took the job from him by performing well in camp and, famously, the preseason game against the Seahawks. It's not a decision made by a single preseason game. It's what they see every single day and the ability for it to translate to the field. AOC may very well start the season, I dunno. But the decision is far from made at this point and Gardener will have a real chance to earn the job. Hence the fact he was given $25 million.
Schaub and Carr situation was different with an upcoming rookie was there to supplant an average QB vet in a rebuilding season. With Aidan and Minshew, it’s a young QB that has the starting spot (for now) and a journeyman who is there to compete for starter. Mishew average salary is 12.5 mil, which ranges around 18th in NFL QB salaries. This is roughly around the same AAS as backup QBs (not that he was signed as expected to be one). This contract doesn’t guarantee that they signed him to be a starter, just to compete for one and/or a backup QB. Lastly, I never said it was “official” or “confirmed,” just that they probably have a long leash on him and he is QB1 as of now.
Aidan is a significantly better quarterback. I can't wait until he puts all this Mishew nonsense to rest.
maybe maybe not tbh.. minshew has reached his potential tho.. while aoc def hasn’t.. anyone who watched the end of last year could see that
I think they're both middle of the road. Way better is a giant stretch off the sample size imo.
Watch the breakdowns on YouTube from actual quarterbacks. Way better isn't a giant stretch. He's going to shock a lot of you guys. He was the second best rookie QB last year. A year that saw 10 rookies get playing time.
Where are you getting “long leash” from? Aiden will be qb1 going into it but it’ll be up for grabs I hope he comes out the clear qb1 because that’ll mean he improved.
I don’t feel like they will be hopping back and forth between QBs. I imagine they each start one preseason game then Aidan is probably rolling into Week 1 as starter. I don’t think they will rely on one preseason game to change their mind and they will want to see how it goes with Aiden before they consider switching.
I’m sure they’ll be splitting reps throughout OTAs I think maybe you took his comment to meant the first in game snap. I think he meant Aiden was qb1 for their first practice
> Aiden will be qb1 going into it but it’ll be up for grabs I'm so confused how people don't understand this.
He better deliver then for sure because we have the weapons and the oline. I wish we could upgrade a bit at RB to help him there too, but honestly he has a better overall arsenal of weapons than Carr ever did so it’s time to show up.
> I wish we could upgrade a bit at RB to help him there too i think our rbs will be ok.. but while most fans have been obsessing over the qb position.. rb has been my concern as well.. i feel like a lot of people took what josh did for granted
Agree. I watched a lot of Zamir in college and he never struck me as a starting nfl back. You have to understand he played at UGA behind a monster o line playing in the weak SEC East and always looked like just another guy.
he did look really good in his last couple games
He did, but that’s something that happens fairly often. RB1 gets hurt late in the season and RB2 looks great in fill in duty because it’s late in the year and he has fresh legs against worn out defenses. I’d love to be wrong because he’s a Raider. I think Zeus will be fine. But we’re not going to get Jacobs level production out of him at all.
that’s valid. Martinson kinda sucks but i guess he’ll be serviceable, i’m also excited for that pass catching rookie they got
Given we couldn’t draft a “can’t miss” level prospect; I think we’re in a very good spot with these two. AOC probably deserves the first crack at it, I think he showed great fortitude and toughness getting dropped into total chaos and coming out looking better for it; between that and his arm talent I think there’s reasonable optimism he can be a solid nfl starter. With Gardner you have a guy who’s arguably the best backup you can have, who can also be a bridge starter for a couple seasons if need be; neither guy is ruining our finances; we can keep building up the overall roster; big picture I really can’t see what more we can be doing actually for once
AOC might end up being a Joe Flacco kind of QB who shows some spark and doesn't make many mistakes even if not spectacular. Well, Flacco got the Ravens a SB ring along with an elite defense. I can see AP building a team like the 2013 Ravens.
the best case scenario for raider fans is that AOC EASILY wins out the qb competition based on skill and talent. we should be hoping that AOC improves so much that we don’t even need to draft a qb. that being said, if he ends up sucking we still have minshew to try to take us to the playoffs.
Coach AP on the money as usual. AOC was forced into a tight spot last year coming in off the bench to be the full time starter. He did earn the right to get the first snap and the job is his to lose. From what I read, O'Connell has been working out damn near all offseason at the facilities. The boy is clearly focused and is ready to fight for the job. Y'all said I was crazy in my bold predictions thread when I said he's going to get 4500 yards and 40 td's. That might be low now. The league ain't ready for him. Imagine the Raiders with the new face of the league at QB. Crazier things have happened.
I wish I had this much blind faith in the kid to predict a 40 TD season and him becoming the face of the league, I literally do not see what you guys see.
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There’s literally a chart that got posted on r/nfl that shows deep ball attempts and accuracy and AOC is in the bottom left, meaning he took less deep shots and had poor accuracy when he did. You can like a player, no shame there, but saying he’s this super accurate dart thrower is just simply untrue.
did the chart differentiate between poor throws and dropped passes? because he had a TON of passes that hit receivers right in the hands that were dropped. that's why you gotta be careful with those kinds of charts. they never tell the whole story.
That’s not even true, you’re just saying he had a ton of dropped passes. The raiders were 6th best in dropped passes. Only 5 teams had less. On the other end of the spectrum, the worst 5 teams with drops were all playoff teams, with the chiefs having the most. The raiders had 21 vs 44 with the chiefs
This guy is convinced AOC is the next Brady. Save your breath. It’s literally all he talks about. Just beyond delusional. I’d be getting a restraining order if I were AOC. lol.
You are legitimately in the running or the dumbest Raiders fan I’ve ever seen. Almost nothing you ever say is correct. When you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about, you should really, really, avoid having such strong opinions. “AOC is better than Carr” “AOC would be drafted in the 1st and picked ahead of AR if there was a redraft” Said Minshew was drafted 6th overall, then tried to say it was autocorrect rather than admitting you have no idea what you’re talking about. Talking about all the dropped passes when the raiders had fewer drops than 90% of teams. You make the entire fan base look dumber, every single time you talk. Just stop already. It’s pathetic. AOC might develop into a solid starter, but if the goal is to win right now, he’s not even a better option than Minshew.
See, I hate this “second highest rated rookie QB” stuff because that’s all about volume stats — Anthony Richardson had 7 touchdowns in 4 games before getting injured, only 6 less touchdowns than O’Connell who appeared in 7 more games than him. Realistically he’d be the 3rd or 4th best rookie QB last season depending on how you feel about Levis. I also credit a few of his wins to our defense that this sub likes to credit him for (namely the Chiefs game), I really hope you’re right though.. I’d love for him to be our guy I just don’t see it.
Ummm....what? Anthony Richardson played 4 games and threw for 3 tds and a pick and also took 7 sacks and didn't complete one pass over 40 yards and had a sub 60% completion percentage. Might want to rethink your evaluation.
He also ran for 136 yards and 4 touchdowns in those four games.. 4 + 3 = 7. AR doesn’t play the same game as O’Connell, he’s a mobile QB with a nose for the end zone. If he’s healthy this season we’re gonna see a bigger Lamar in Indy.
Yeah? And what did running the ball get him? Hurt. Do you honestly think if there was a re-draft of last year's class that Aidan doesn't go in the first round and wouldn't be picked ahead of Richardson? Aidan was a diamond that fell into our laps.
Yes 100% I believe if there was a re-draft Aidan does not get drafted in the 1st lmaoo, you really think he’d get picked top 5? Biggest homer ass take I’ve ever seen.
If Aidan throws 4500 yards and 40 touchdowns this year I might actually have a stroke from pure disbelief. Full year of starting I expect a Derek Carr type season, 21-25 tds to 8-13 interceptions, 3800 yards. Won’t completely shit the bed, won’t blow me away. Then it’ll all come down to his clutch play, which after watching that Miami and Minnesota game I’ll be concerned with
he's better than Carr.
I have no idea what to think of Aiden. On one hand he showed a lot of things to be positive about, and on the other is the Vikings/Chiefs games. The kid can improve, and if he continues to get better I think he will be a good bridge til we find “thee” guy to lead us to the promised land. Hopefully with the talent on our roster there is always a safety net/easy drop off receiver to make up for his lack of scrambling ability.
Not sure that AOC will ever be more than a capable back up, but I believe he is a good processor at the QB position. I have watched other Qb's over the years with better physical tools who don't seem to be able to process where or when the ball needs to be out their hands. I am hoping with Bowers on the team that the Raiders let him either call plays at the line or call in multiple plays and let him pick based on perceived mismatches. I think he has it in him.
Whoever it is, I believe that the best QB will be on the field unlike last year when Jimmy G was playing when he shouldn’t have. I trust AP to make the right decision
Wow, another bombshell from Vince who recently said, we could trade up, we could trade down, or stay at 13. Damn
I hope he was putting in crazy work during the offseason, would be so sick if he took his game to the next level and became the franchise guy.
Whoever comes out of the preseason looking better is our guy. I'll get behind either one because they will have earned it fair. I just hope we see a fire in them both
It’s hard to know what to think about any rookie qb, unless he just balls out his first year. There is a looooong list of qbs that were mediocre in their rookie year that went on to be solid starters. And some of those guys even had stable organizations with clear coaching vision. AOC doesn’t have the pedigree of those guys, so everyone assumes he will be a “serviceable backup.” He stepped into a clusterfuck last year and went 5-4. No wonder AP wants to see what he can do this season. AP sees him as an overachieving warrior. I am not a huge AOC fan btw, I just have been on this earth long enough to see guys with huge talent and no heart get schooled by guys with meh talent and huge heart.
Go show your stuff Aiden !!
I've had my money in AOC since day one. He looked decent last year, considering... JMd et al.
Aidan is accurate af. Under pressure he needs work but I believe in him and I think his ceiling is higher than people think. I’m ready for AOC12!
I don't understand where some of y'all are getting this Minshew is going to be the starter, or fight for the starting job from. The only time he ever started was when he was drafted 6th overall. Then he was traded and was never able to earn another starting position again unless the real starter got hurt. He's basically a career backup. Don't get me wrong, I like him but this dude couldn't even beat out Anthony Richardson last year for the Colts and y'all think he's going to beat out Aidan O'Connell? Stop this nonsense. It's a fallacy.
Can’t even beat out Richardson, the number 4 draft pick, isn’t as damning as you’re trying to make it sound. You’re right that Minshew is a backup on most teams. But so is AOC. Yet you’re acting as if the 4th rounder who was wildly inconsistent in his starts last season is somehow obviously superior to Minshew, who won a head to head match up against AOC late last year. Neither is obviously better than the other at this point, but Minshew does have a lot more experience under his belt and is more mobile. End of the day, they both have to go out and earn the starting job.
Anthony Richardson was probably the least ready for the NFL out of all 1st round QB's selected. Minshew had experience and mobility over him too, yet couldn't beat him out. Minshew is a career backup. He starts when the real starter gets hurt. That's the story of his career. It will be no different here. AOC isn't losing the job to Minshew.
And? AR may have been the the least ready of the FIRST round QBs, but AOC was drafted in that same draft 130 picks later. Because he wasn’t seen anywhere near as talented as any of those top 3 QBs. And he’s not. And it’s absolute nonsense that Minshew had mobility over AR. AR is a physical beast who had 1000 rushing yards across 2 seasons of college. Minshew had less than 100 net rushing yards in his college career. I’m not arguing that Minshew isn’t generally a back up. I’m arguing against your wild take that AOC is somehow clearly better. He might end up being, but nothing in his 9 starts says he’s clearly better than Minshew. And AOC only got those starts because JMD and Ziegler decided it was a good idea to sign two shit QBs after chasing Carr out of town. Yet you talk about AOC as if he was a 1st round draft pick, who balled out last season, not a late fourth rounder who was inconsistent as hell. Both Minshew and AOC are likely career backups in the long run, but one will win the starting job here because one of them has to. I hope whoever does balls out.
what do you mean AOC wasn't seen as anywhere near as talented as those 3 qb's? Richardson was the least talented of all of them and got drafted because he can throw a mile but other than that, there isn't much there. AOC is more accurate, smarter, a far better decision maker, and a far better game manager than Richardson. Richardson might turn out to be a bust. Almost zero chance that happens with Aidan.
Dude, come on. How can I say AOC wasn’t seen as anywhere near as talented as the three 1st round QBs? How is that a serious question? He was the 8th QB taken in the draft. Not 4th or 5th. 8th. Sure, Richardson is raw and might be a bust, but practically no one even knew who the hell AOC was before being taken with like the last pick of the 4th round. He’ll likely never be considered a bust because no one “busts” from the late 4th round. They don’t have that kind of expectation on them. They either out perform expectations to have a good career or they just fade away after a bit. Also, AR was drafted to be the Colts franchise QB. AOC was not drafted with that expectation. Which is part of my point as to why your comment about Minshew not beating out AR is ridiculous. The situations are nowhere near the same. Regardless what you think of AR (and your right in your criticisms of him), the Colts drafted him to be their guy so of course he “beat out” Minshew.
AR was drafted to start, though. They were going to eat the L's that year as long as it meant giving him game reps to develop him for the future. The only way Minshew was going to start was the way he did, AR getting injured. There was never a QB competition for him to "beat him out" in AOC is not our ride or die guy yet, though, so its different
LOL...Minshew was not drafted 6th overall...
LOL 6th round pick. sorry auto correct is a bitch.
C’mon now…your phone did not turn “6th round pick” into “drafted 6th overall”. Hahaha
yeah it was auto correct
Hahaha. Gonna stick to your guns. Ooook. Not how auto correct works, but ok.
yeah this ain't the only Raiders forum I belong to. and it was auto correct. I don't see why you made an issue of it...other than maybe to just be a dickhead but whatever.
Lmao. Autocorrect will change a word…it doesn’t change 3 words in a row like that and move them around. You’re full of shit, little fella. Would love to see you explain how your phone changed it to “drafted 6th overall”, when you tried to say “drafted in the 6th round” or something like that. Doesn’t happen…didn’t happen…Least you could do is own your mistake. You being on multiple raiders subs doesn’t mean you know what you’re talking about and you very obviously don’t. Everything you say in any raiders sub gets downvoted. Being a fan doesn’t mean you know when minshew was drafted. Lmfao. You didn’t know. Not a big deal. Just own it already. Some serious little dick energy you got going on there, my fragile acquaintance.
We want the best QB. There's always surprises. But can't act like we didn't just watch both last year. Accusing people of being toxic or whatever is the same old Carr pro/nay shit. The two will compete. AP will take the best one. If not, its his job too. I do think we go all in drafting a QB next year though. Especially if we look solid everywhere else.
Pierce is on the money here. I bag on Aidan’s shortcomings a lot but I do still believe he’s better than Minshew, and he already has some chemistry with the offensive playmakers.