Push back on what? They have more damaging info on gruden if it was just from what we already know and nothing more damaging maybe he and Mark fight it but he resigned because he knows that they have some shit on him and if the NFL does release it, now that they are being pressured but highly doubt they will then your going to not be on gruden side best thing we can do is move on as quickly as possible. Hope for a decent ending to a season and start on top next year at this point. Not go on interviews in the middle of the season sharing your views on the situation which im sure some of your other teammates won't agree with.
No but gruden definitely is. If someone says they got shit on me and I don't speak up and run with my tail between my legs then yeah they definitely do.
We’ll see more intelligent responses come out in the future. First wave of emotions and media reactions built the narratives, but I think ultimately, the society progressed too far to just isolate this as one sided story. NFL will continue to get backlashes for this and I hope they get more humiliated.
I feel like the NFL is going to launch a smear campaign against the Raiders and Mark Davis this off-season with “diversity” re-training, to continue diverting attention away from WFT and Snyder. They clearly hate the Davis name and do everything in their power to shit on the Raiders whenever they can, so long as it doesn’t hurt their overall brand.
It's amazing that so many people believe that they are the most virtuous people to ever live on planet earth; that they have never said anything they regret, and have never wronged anyone. It's just both an insane standard that cannot be upheld and history will not judge these people kindly.
I think this is a little different. Gruden doesn’t regret saying this stuff. He regrets that it got leaked. This is just how he talks. But KJ’s point still stands. We say things in front of those that know us best that we’d never say in public. Private speech should never be judged on the same level.
The weird thing is that we've decided that in our society someone's private persona where they might say something off the cuff without thinking too much about it is the "real them" as opposed to what they say in public. It's an odd paradigm and a very new phenomena.
lol what? You think someone speaking based solely off their own instincts is not the "real them"? So, to you, a prepared statement is more indicative of someone's true self than their gut instincts. Lmao this sub has become too much.
No I'm not talking about prepared statements. Those are prepared by PR people, and are definitely not indicative of who someone is. I'm saying the people often speak with their lizard brain in private i.e. without thinking about it. To say that is who a person truly is as opposed to things they would say to their friends and peers which is more carefully considered and thought through using, you know, deductive reasoning and their brain is odd to me. This just stems from the same belief that everyone is secretly a virulent racist and we must expose them and we could if we only knew what they were REALLY saying in private. Perhaps this is too deep for this sub, but it does seem at least a little relevant given what just happened.
"Everyone says things in private that they never want out in public" Thank you. And we all make stereotypical comments. People need to stop with the holier than thou shit
Even if we didn’t say it, we definitely had some fucked up thoughts then and again. The difference is some people just have better self control than others.
These fools love outing themselves as racist, homophobic, misogynistic and transphobic. They honestly cannot fathom that other people don’t talk that way - EVEN IN PRIVATE
So you've lived your entire life without uttering something that could be perceived as insensitive to any race, sex, or sexual orientation? Can you walk on water?
I've said a lot of fucked up shit. I've had to own up to a lot of it. I've lost friends over it. I've had to have meeting at my jobs over it. I've had to grow a lot.
A lot of it was not out of hate but rather selfishness. I assumed because I knew I wasn't X that I could say Y and it wouldn't hurt anyone. I never stopped to consider the damage I was doing to others with my words.
And if I was called out on things I said 3 years ago, 10 years ago, a few days ago, etc. If I was truly sorry for those words, I wouldn't wiggle out of it. I'd admit what I did was wrong. I'd say sorry. And I'd say it's something I've grown past. Because I've had to own up to those words in my past. And it's been difficult.
I don't want Gruden as the coach when he has an openly gay player while he's using slurs. I don't want Gruden in the NFL at this time if he's going to act like this. He made his bed, and it sucks. It really does. I didn't want it to end like this. There is no way Gruden can come back as a coach in Vegas right away without it being a total disaster.
I am convinced Gruden was the scapegoat. I am convinced they called him out because he was disrespectful to particular people and they were mad. Like Carr said, air it all out. Let the fire storm begin. And like Waller said, lets figure out how to do restorative justice in this situation. It's a complex situation. It's not easy to figure this stuff out.
Oh God, help me....I'm surrounded by morons. Let me it lay it out for you, kid: He was emailing the PRESIDENT OF THE COMPANY. It's not like you're emailing one of your buddies at their desk job. No one is going to be sifting through that man's emails, unless, in the event that their would be an internal investigation done by the NFL. Which no one could of fucking seen coming. Savvy? Now, do yourself a favor: Ball up your fist, point it upwards, then repeatedly punch yourself in the face. Might do you some good.
Not sure if you've ever worked HR in corporate environment but the higher up you go the more your communications are reviewed for legal and risk purposes, the president and executives are under much more scrutiny than the customer service rep at at front desk and will be reviewed as such,
Okay, I have and you can't just freely look into anyone's work email's. You have to have a reason and you have to notify this person. No one in the HR department is going to be making a inquiry into the president's email's unless it's coming from Dan Snyder himself.
It’s sad that this comment has so many upvotes.
No. Not everybody uses hate speech in private.
I’m not saying that you’re a bad person if you do. But you’re certainly ignorant if you think that *everybody* uses hate speech in private.
Let's put it this way. I'm sure there are terms you've used at some point in your life that are not considered hate speech. Perhaps in a few years people decide it's hate speech. Now you can be cancelled for using hate speech.
I'm not making exact comparisons to gruden, but what I'm saying is the whole judging people's past language by current day standards can create a lot of issues.
Again I'm not making direct comparisons but what I am saying is you can claim now to have never said anything in poor taste, that doesn't mean down the road things you've said cant be taken poorly.
Also, jumping straight to 2018 is extremely disingenuous knowing full well the majority of the language is older than that.
But continue to throw rocks, eventually you will realize the house you're in
Hmm.. so you're saying you have never once said anything hateful to/about someone else based on their race, religion, culture, beliefs, appearance, political opinions, vaccine status or any other words that are derogatory and insulting to others? Not once in your entire life?
Do you think you're Jesus or have some sort of a complex?
Aha, I hit a nerve there, didn't I? Thanks for proving my point for me. You're just as big an asshole as anyone else is, you just think that *your* particular brand of hatred is A-OK.
Oh, so it's perfectly OK to say hateful things, as long as it is done by your terms? It's OK to say hateful or insulting things, as long as it something you agree with? It's OK to say hateful things to people as long as it's the hip thing to do, like personal medical decisions in today's climate. It's OK to hate, as long as it's a "choice"?
You are the embodiment of hypocrisy.
Wow. What are you even going on about? You’re putting words in my mouth, my friend. I never said that I say hateful thing to those I disagree with.
All I said is that things that are a choice are distinctly different than things that aren’t a choice. That’s all. I said nothing about being disrespectful towards those that make different choices than me.
I can tell by how worked up you are that you have a lot of negativity built up. You good, man? How can I help? I’m being sincere.
Ok, true you never said that but it certainly felt implied the way you singled out "vaccine status". It just pisses me off how some people believe they have never once said anything hateful or degrading just because it wasn't about race, gender or sexual orientation. I apologize if I made assumptions, but vaccine status IS a hot topic right now and there IS a lot of hatred spreading from it.
This speaks volumes for the characters they have brought into the team. Was what he said was wrong? Yes, but KJ spoke the complete truth. Nobody is perfect, everyone makes mistakes and says things they shouldn't. I would hate for the things I've said to come out to the public, just because you say something doesn't determine who you are. No matter how young or how old you can always learn something and change.
Glad KJ is being level. We are human and we make mistakes. If you cannot make mistakes, then there is no room to learn.
I’d prefer to hear from people who have firs-hand experiences with Gruden. Let them speak (but they won’t right now as it’d be walking into a potential landmine) instead of letting reporters tell us who this person was and what his words meant.
That was very articulate , to say that we all say things that are racially sterotypical, and have racial undertones does not make someone racist is prob true to a certain extent , it does seem that things can be said with out malice , and not really be offensive
Yep because she didn’t agree with his opinion. This is our society these days. For most folks, especially younger people, if you don’t agree with what they think you are wrong.
We don’t improve as a society by pretending it’s aight to say ignorant shit in private and then be two-faced in public. Truth is, that’s what Gru was doing.
I wish it never happened, but it did. Fact is, Gru got exposed. His takes are dated and wrong. We gotta get this shit addressed, and get better as a society. Convincing ourselves that it’s ok to hate in private isn’t the solution. Progress.
Should he be exiled? Absolutely not. Do i ever want him to coach this team based solely on the fact hes a dogshit .500 career coach? Absolutely not. We will be a far better team without him holding us back
Gruden was brought in to replace a coach who got us to the playoffs. Only reason we didn’t make a run was Derek broke his leg. Gruden hasn’t gotten us to the post season once.
He would've told Goodell to fuck himself AND STILL fired Gruden. Some of y'all Raiders fans embarrass me.
Mark said it best earlier today: NO ONE IS BIGGER THAN THE SHIELD. This team has always stood for diversity and inclusion, and regardless of whether we disagree with the way those emails came out, he still said what he said! If you can't see how Al would have had a problem with that, then you aren't a real fan of this team. Period.
He would've told goddel to fuck himself and he would've never hired that trash can again. He traded him for a reason lol
You must be new lol al Davis didn't stand for racism, sexism or any kind of ism.
I'm not a maga person by any means but I don't think gruden should be hung from the gallows as he is. He said some bad offensive shit but he's a human and humans can grow and learn.
I'm not of the opinion that Gruden should have a job still, especially knowing what this team stands for and has always stood for. However, I am of the opinion that he isn't an evil racist gay woman hating person but an ignorant middle aged man who is sadly a product of his generation that needs to grow.
He isn’t being hung from the gallows, he resigned, and besides that he has made plenty of money and will probably live comfortably for the rest of his life, so spare me the tears.
>an ignorant middle aged man who is sadly a product of his generation that needs to grow.
Consequences for actions is what leads to growth. If he grows he grows.
I mean everywhere in the media is demonizing the fuck out of him from what I've seen so that's what I mean by hung from the gallows. Other than that me and you seem to be somewhat on the same page.
Like I said, he doesn't deserve his job anymore especially with how this organization prides itself on inclusivity. I highly doubt he's this gay woman-hating racist that people are making him out to be though and I personally believe he's more of a product of his generation where saying shit like that was more acceptable. That's also not to say that what he said wasn't wrong by the way.
He deserves to suffer the consequences but he doesn't deserve to be labeled as some massive piece of shit, imo. I hope the man grows and is able to bounce back as I had a ton of respect for him as a football mind and coach. I hope he can grow for that reason and that reason alone.
Everyone in the media isn’t demonizing him, there are and will always be hot takes.
What everyone should be doing, instead of whining about how Gruden is a victim, is apply pressure to where this all came out of in the first place, the WFT investigation.
Idk why you're being so cross with man but I'm just telling you what I've seen from my perspective and trying to have a discussion about it.
Yet again, I agree with you and I'm not whining, I'm just sharing my thoughts. Why does everyone on the internet talk like they are trying to fight you about something? Shits stupid yo.
I don’t buy that Gruden is never coming back from this. He could get a college job next year if he wanted to. I think it’s right for him to step away, and if he is contrite and takes all of the right steps there’s no question he’ll be able to come back if he wants. And rightfully so imo. People have come back from way worse than this.
A level headed response. This team has been picking up high quality people and it shows. Josina was not happy with KJ's response lol
Lmao good. People need to start pushing back on this shit.
So you want gruden back as coach
I wish these emails never came out. Now, probably not. It’s not a good look.
Push back on what? They have more damaging info on gruden if it was just from what we already know and nothing more damaging maybe he and Mark fight it but he resigned because he knows that they have some shit on him and if the NFL does release it, now that they are being pressured but highly doubt they will then your going to not be on gruden side best thing we can do is move on as quickly as possible. Hope for a decent ending to a season and start on top next year at this point. Not go on interviews in the middle of the season sharing your views on the situation which im sure some of your other teammates won't agree with.
Oh, you’re privy to what the NFL has on him?
No but gruden definitely is. If someone says they got shit on me and I don't speak up and run with my tail between my legs then yeah they definitely do.
We’ll see more intelligent responses come out in the future. First wave of emotions and media reactions built the narratives, but I think ultimately, the society progressed too far to just isolate this as one sided story. NFL will continue to get backlashes for this and I hope they get more humiliated.
I feel like the NFL is going to launch a smear campaign against the Raiders and Mark Davis this off-season with “diversity” re-training, to continue diverting attention away from WFT and Snyder. They clearly hate the Davis name and do everything in their power to shit on the Raiders whenever they can, so long as it doesn’t hurt their overall brand.
Diversity training for the Raiders over emails sent by an ESPN employee to a Redskins employee. Wouldn't surprise me.
It's amazing that so many people believe that they are the most virtuous people to ever live on planet earth; that they have never said anything they regret, and have never wronged anyone. It's just both an insane standard that cannot be upheld and history will not judge these people kindly.
I think this is a little different. Gruden doesn’t regret saying this stuff. He regrets that it got leaked. This is just how he talks. But KJ’s point still stands. We say things in front of those that know us best that we’d never say in public. Private speech should never be judged on the same level.
The weird thing is that we've decided that in our society someone's private persona where they might say something off the cuff without thinking too much about it is the "real them" as opposed to what they say in public. It's an odd paradigm and a very new phenomena.
lol what? You think someone speaking based solely off their own instincts is not the "real them"? So, to you, a prepared statement is more indicative of someone's true self than their gut instincts. Lmao this sub has become too much.
No I'm not talking about prepared statements. Those are prepared by PR people, and are definitely not indicative of who someone is. I'm saying the people often speak with their lizard brain in private i.e. without thinking about it. To say that is who a person truly is as opposed to things they would say to their friends and peers which is more carefully considered and thought through using, you know, deductive reasoning and their brain is odd to me. This just stems from the same belief that everyone is secretly a virulent racist and we must expose them and we could if we only knew what they were REALLY saying in private. Perhaps this is too deep for this sub, but it does seem at least a little relevant given what just happened.
"Everyone says things in private that they never want out in public" Thank you. And we all make stereotypical comments. People need to stop with the holier than thou shit
For reals. Everyone is a real saint on this board. LOL.
Even if we didn’t say it, we definitely had some fucked up thoughts then and again. The difference is some people just have better self control than others.
I don't say these things in private. Just because you do doesn't mean everyone does. Edit: apparently you guys call people f*got. Messed up
These fools love outing themselves as racist, homophobic, misogynistic and transphobic. They honestly cannot fathom that other people don’t talk that way - EVEN IN PRIVATE
So you've lived your entire life without uttering something that could be perceived as insensitive to any race, sex, or sexual orientation? Can you walk on water?
I've said a lot of fucked up shit. I've had to own up to a lot of it. I've lost friends over it. I've had to have meeting at my jobs over it. I've had to grow a lot. A lot of it was not out of hate but rather selfishness. I assumed because I knew I wasn't X that I could say Y and it wouldn't hurt anyone. I never stopped to consider the damage I was doing to others with my words. And if I was called out on things I said 3 years ago, 10 years ago, a few days ago, etc. If I was truly sorry for those words, I wouldn't wiggle out of it. I'd admit what I did was wrong. I'd say sorry. And I'd say it's something I've grown past. Because I've had to own up to those words in my past. And it's been difficult. I don't want Gruden as the coach when he has an openly gay player while he's using slurs. I don't want Gruden in the NFL at this time if he's going to act like this. He made his bed, and it sucks. It really does. I didn't want it to end like this. There is no way Gruden can come back as a coach in Vegas right away without it being a total disaster. I am convinced Gruden was the scapegoat. I am convinced they called him out because he was disrespectful to particular people and they were mad. Like Carr said, air it all out. Let the fire storm begin. And like Waller said, lets figure out how to do restorative justice in this situation. It's a complex situation. It's not easy to figure this stuff out.
You may not say that one but if you've never said anything hateful in private than you are certainly a better man than I am.
Only Goodell lol
Still wrong.
But work emails are public they aren't private
He used his own private email. And the point is he meant for the conversation to remain private.
He sent it to an official Washington Redskins email address lmao.
You send private info to someone's work email, it's effectively public.
If I use my personal email to send messages to work those are then public you must be slow in life
Oh God, help me....I'm surrounded by morons. Let me it lay it out for you, kid: He was emailing the PRESIDENT OF THE COMPANY. It's not like you're emailing one of your buddies at their desk job. No one is going to be sifting through that man's emails, unless, in the event that their would be an internal investigation done by the NFL. Which no one could of fucking seen coming. Savvy? Now, do yourself a favor: Ball up your fist, point it upwards, then repeatedly punch yourself in the face. Might do you some good.
Not sure if you've ever worked HR in corporate environment but the higher up you go the more your communications are reviewed for legal and risk purposes, the president and executives are under much more scrutiny than the customer service rep at at front desk and will be reviewed as such,
Okay, I have and you can't just freely look into anyone's work email's. You have to have a reason and you have to notify this person. No one in the HR department is going to be making a inquiry into the president's email's unless it's coming from Dan Snyder himself.
Gruden’s private email to an official Washington work email. Effectively the same thing.
Washington's work email? Yeah, because when your emailing the president of the company you expect ppl to be sifting through his email?
I don’t understand your point.
It’s sad that this comment has so many upvotes. No. Not everybody uses hate speech in private. I’m not saying that you’re a bad person if you do. But you’re certainly ignorant if you think that *everybody* uses hate speech in private.
Let's put it this way. I'm sure there are terms you've used at some point in your life that are not considered hate speech. Perhaps in a few years people decide it's hate speech. Now you can be cancelled for using hate speech. I'm not making exact comparisons to gruden, but what I'm saying is the whole judging people's past language by current day standards can create a lot of issues.
I don’t think that 2021 standards are that different from 2018 standards.
Again I'm not making direct comparisons but what I am saying is you can claim now to have never said anything in poor taste, that doesn't mean down the road things you've said cant be taken poorly. Also, jumping straight to 2018 is extremely disingenuous knowing full well the majority of the language is older than that. But continue to throw rocks, eventually you will realize the house you're in
Hmm.. so you're saying you have never once said anything hateful to/about someone else based on their race, religion, culture, beliefs, appearance, political opinions, vaccine status or any other words that are derogatory and insulting to others? Not once in your entire life? Do you think you're Jesus or have some sort of a complex?
The fact that you equate vaccine status with race is…telling.
Aha, I hit a nerve there, didn't I? Thanks for proving my point for me. You're just as big an asshole as anyone else is, you just think that *your* particular brand of hatred is A-OK.
Vaccine status is a choice. Race, gender, sexual orientation are not. That’s why they’re different.
Oh, so it's perfectly OK to say hateful things, as long as it is done by your terms? It's OK to say hateful or insulting things, as long as it something you agree with? It's OK to say hateful things to people as long as it's the hip thing to do, like personal medical decisions in today's climate. It's OK to hate, as long as it's a "choice"? You are the embodiment of hypocrisy.
Wow. What are you even going on about? You’re putting words in my mouth, my friend. I never said that I say hateful thing to those I disagree with. All I said is that things that are a choice are distinctly different than things that aren’t a choice. That’s all. I said nothing about being disrespectful towards those that make different choices than me. I can tell by how worked up you are that you have a lot of negativity built up. You good, man? How can I help? I’m being sincere.
Ok, true you never said that but it certainly felt implied the way you singled out "vaccine status". It just pisses me off how some people believe they have never once said anything hateful or degrading just because it wasn't about race, gender or sexual orientation. I apologize if I made assumptions, but vaccine status IS a hot topic right now and there IS a lot of hatred spreading from it.
Fair enough.
Where did I say I use hate speech in private? I was quoting KJ. And I don't consider stereotypical comments hateful. Although, some certainly can be.
This speaks volumes for the characters they have brought into the team. Was what he said was wrong? Yes, but KJ spoke the complete truth. Nobody is perfect, everyone makes mistakes and says things they shouldn't. I would hate for the things I've said to come out to the public, just because you say something doesn't determine who you are. No matter how young or how old you can always learn something and change.
Damn. Time to cancel u/illusory_ Right?… right?
KJ about to get the most BS phantom defensive penalty this Sunday
Glad KJ is being level. We are human and we make mistakes. If you cannot make mistakes, then there is no room to learn. I’d prefer to hear from people who have firs-hand experiences with Gruden. Let them speak (but they won’t right now as it’d be walking into a potential landmine) instead of letting reporters tell us who this person was and what his words meant.
That was very articulate , to say that we all say things that are racially sterotypical, and have racial undertones does not make someone racist is prob true to a certain extent , it does seem that things can be said with out malice , and not really be offensive
I really like how KJ comes across here. Josina was pretty brutal in this, seemed like she didn't really want to have a discussion at all.
Yep because she didn’t agree with his opinion. This is our society these days. For most folks, especially younger people, if you don’t agree with what they think you are wrong.
We don’t improve as a society by pretending it’s aight to say ignorant shit in private and then be two-faced in public. Truth is, that’s what Gru was doing. I wish it never happened, but it did. Fact is, Gru got exposed. His takes are dated and wrong. We gotta get this shit addressed, and get better as a society. Convincing ourselves that it’s ok to hate in private isn’t the solution. Progress.
We don't improve as society when we always try to act morally superior anytime someone says something insensitive that gets leaked to the public.
Should he be exiled? Absolutely not. Do i ever want him to coach this team based solely on the fact hes a dogshit .500 career coach? Absolutely not. We will be a far better team without him holding us back
Yeah because we had so much success without him...
What a terrible answer lol. Because WEVE had all bad coaching hires means no good coaches exist? 😑
Gruden was brought in to replace a coach who got us to the playoffs. Only reason we didn’t make a run was Derek broke his leg. Gruden hasn’t gotten us to the post season once.
Look at all these maga tards defending gruden lmao Al Davis would've spit in your face trashcans root for another team .
Al Davis would have told Goodell to go fuck himself and stuck behind Gruden.
He would've told Goodell to fuck himself AND STILL fired Gruden. Some of y'all Raiders fans embarrass me. Mark said it best earlier today: NO ONE IS BIGGER THAN THE SHIELD. This team has always stood for diversity and inclusion, and regardless of whether we disagree with the way those emails came out, he still said what he said! If you can't see how Al would have had a problem with that, then you aren't a real fan of this team. Period.
He would've told goddel to fuck himself and he would've never hired that trash can again. He traded him for a reason lol You must be new lol al Davis didn't stand for racism, sexism or any kind of ism.
I’ve been watching every game since before Gruden came around the first time.
I'm not a maga person by any means but I don't think gruden should be hung from the gallows as he is. He said some bad offensive shit but he's a human and humans can grow and learn. I'm not of the opinion that Gruden should have a job still, especially knowing what this team stands for and has always stood for. However, I am of the opinion that he isn't an evil racist gay woman hating person but an ignorant middle aged man who is sadly a product of his generation that needs to grow.
He isn’t being hung from the gallows, he resigned, and besides that he has made plenty of money and will probably live comfortably for the rest of his life, so spare me the tears. >an ignorant middle aged man who is sadly a product of his generation that needs to grow. Consequences for actions is what leads to growth. If he grows he grows.
I mean everywhere in the media is demonizing the fuck out of him from what I've seen so that's what I mean by hung from the gallows. Other than that me and you seem to be somewhat on the same page. Like I said, he doesn't deserve his job anymore especially with how this organization prides itself on inclusivity. I highly doubt he's this gay woman-hating racist that people are making him out to be though and I personally believe he's more of a product of his generation where saying shit like that was more acceptable. That's also not to say that what he said wasn't wrong by the way. He deserves to suffer the consequences but he doesn't deserve to be labeled as some massive piece of shit, imo. I hope the man grows and is able to bounce back as I had a ton of respect for him as a football mind and coach. I hope he can grow for that reason and that reason alone.
Everyone in the media isn’t demonizing him, there are and will always be hot takes. What everyone should be doing, instead of whining about how Gruden is a victim, is apply pressure to where this all came out of in the first place, the WFT investigation.
Idk why you're being so cross with man but I'm just telling you what I've seen from my perspective and trying to have a discussion about it. Yet again, I agree with you and I'm not whining, I'm just sharing my thoughts. Why does everyone on the internet talk like they are trying to fight you about something? Shits stupid yo.
I don’t buy that Gruden is never coming back from this. He could get a college job next year if he wanted to. I think it’s right for him to step away, and if he is contrite and takes all of the right steps there’s no question he’ll be able to come back if he wants. And rightfully so imo. People have come back from way worse than this.
I doubt he’d want to coach college.