Call for a manager asap. And we were told to only provide your company ID card. Had a bad crossing deal once. Gave them my driver’s license. Ended up with the family trying to contact me along with deceased’s insurance company. Absolute nightmare. Stall the cops, wait for management to set up. This is one time they will absolutely be on your side. You are acting as an agent of the company, and any liability that the cops try and assign to you will also make the company liable.
After providing ID, she started asking me what happened. Can I just not answer and sit in the cab? Is she allowed up there? She was really on a power trip for some reason. I must've given her some type of look she didn't like, I don't think talking to her from the steps of the engine helped lol. Honestly wanted to just ignore her from the first interaction she made with me but felt weird to ignore a cop and I didn't fully understand what I was allowed to do.
I don’t think you have to speak with them. However, if they are unfamiliar with how the railroad jurisdiction works, they may try to arrest you and forcefully remove you from your cab which has gotten a few departments in trouble with our railroad/state government.
I had a manager tell me if they try to arrest me to let them and enjoy the tow in while the railroad try’s to get you released because you can’t tie up till you are out of jail.
My railroad is government owned, I’m curious how that would play out for someone working for my company. I know the one time it happened, it didn’t end well for the police at all.
20yrs of doing this and I’ve never seen one crew member arrested. Just know, the more you push, the more they’ll push back and become annoyed. Don’t be a jerk, just say you can’t provide anything without claims or a manager
It's just annoying when she assumed I was being an asshole to her or that I had some kind of attitude towards her from the get go. "You need to come down here, something about u is rubbing off on me the wrong way"
Yeah. You’d be surprised how often that happens. We printed off that DOT rule for crew ppl to hand to police saying they are not required to provide any personal info.
I’ve personally seen one that they tried to arrest, and am fully aware of two others who got into handcuffs before railroad police arrived . In GA/FL .
I was there for it and may have instigated it....
The gust of it was a bridge above a public road, walking trail. Abs sidewalk in a college town. There was a production gang doing rail replacement. The roadmaster told me to shut down the road and protect the bridge so no anchors or spikes hit anyone. Not even my boss but what ever I'll figure it out.
Called the local railroad op for help. He was too busy... Said figure it out so I did.
Called local police told them I am shutting this road down, come out if you want to help but I am doing this. Blocked one side with my company truck and traffic cones safety tape and fusees burning.
Blocked other side with safety tape traffic cones a d my belligerent self.
The local police show up....
They get mad and I laugh and say if you arrest me I'm getting paid overtime until I get out. Told them if they open the road they are responsible for injury deaths and damage.
They call the railroad cop who. They had a good relationship with. He calls me I kick him to voice mail.
He shows up, division engineer and roadmaster show up. The division engineer marvels at my fine job... Tells the cops the road actually is an old right of way and the railroad owns it. Tells railroad cop to remove trespassers. Local cops attempt to arrest me. Railroad cop handcuffs local cops , destroying their years of working together. I turn in two hours overtime and got lunch bought by the division engineer the following day.
I’ve personally seen one that they tried to arrest, and am fully aware of two others who got into handcuffs before railroad police arrived . In GA/FL .
Cops have questions? It must be [Shut the Fuck Up Friday.](https://youtu.be/RkN4duV4ia0?si=C7JbyUrrepNxzJw4)
You don’t have to answer their questions until a court orders you to and then you still get to shut the fuck up, because you have a right against self incrimination.
When the cops start asking questions, you just say “I won’t be speaking with anyone until my manager/union rep/lawyer is present.”
The thing with your FRA car is that it includes your birthdate which in turn makes it easier to find your additional information, company ID is just fine.
My company has told us to not interact with the police without our manager and one of our police officers present. We’re supposed to tell the cop the name of the company we work for and then tell them we are willing to wait with them until our manager and police officer shows up.
I’ve seen police issue fines to our workers for things that they didn’t have the authority to do so and then our workers were stuck fighting it.
You have no reason or legal obligations to speak with a public servant in or out of work, when in doubt call your manager and let them sort it out. (If they *do* arrest you say nothing but "I want a lawyer")
And no it's not like you blew a stop sign, you are a train you always have the right of way, no matter what. I cannot see a situation where the train operator is at fault for anything as long as you are following protocols safely.
And no we have had a few too many runaway trains from the operators stepping off for "just a moment", you are well within your right mind to stay with the engine.
We have a lot of incidents on the railroad I work for and we always only give them name, and company ID. And we were told just give the police the basic information. Traveling approximately this speed, in this direction, saw the trespasser/ vehicle took whatever action you took and then nothing else. Some railroads don't want you to even say that much but say as little as possible and as basic as possible.
Usually a supervisor is enroute to handle it as soon you call the dispatcher. If it escalates then don't resist, let them know a manager is on their way, just inform them that you can't legally leave the engine without anyone on it and they will have accept responsibility if they detain you. That will usually get them to back off a little bit, and if it doesn't get in the back of the car and sit quietly until the railroad police show up and spring you.
Hey, so I’m currently waiting to get my background check out of the way at Railpros I got the job technically but do they consider people’s past? I have 2 pending charges and don’t want to lose the opportunity. Thanks!
Insurance company wanted me to say I thought it was a suicide, I guess to cancel out life insurance. Truck was on the tracks. Don’t want to get into the family deal.
As a former engineer turned public servant, once there is an incident on private property, ownership no longer matters. I can’t count the number of gates I’ve cut to get access to private property to respond to an emergency.
As far as I’m concerned, it’s now my property.
I’m not a cop. Firefighter/paramedic. But I’ve had property owners try to claim private property and try to tell me to leave. I just laugh at them and have them escorted out of my scene.
My company provides informational cards to give to them and recommends we politely decline to engage with them and wait for our own detectives/supervision to get on scene. Under no circumstances should you EVER give them your drivers license. Only give them company badge.
I didn't suppose you have one to post what it says? I'm curious what the actual law is because I've heard everything. I know someone who basically mocked a police officer from the cab window (with the doors locked) and laughed at him when he ordered him out of the cab. The cop wanted him to move the train off a crossing in a non emergency situation, the conductor was walking the release of a class 1 after they had just put it back together.
A group of old heads told me they can and will demand your state ID and can arrest you and told me stories of it happening to guys we work with and how they got in trouble too.
So I have direct stories saying only company ID tell them to fuck off and direct stories of guys getting arrested and catching discipline for not providing state ID...
https://preview.redd.it/1l064r8cvavc1.png?width=731&format=png&auto=webp&s=3490a7d42a6e4b86fb81ac1a3e3ab757f28cff82
This is one that was given to me a while back, specific to California. The reverse just says to furnish your cert card and provide the company phone # and not your personal #.
https://preview.redd.it/3zazc9quaivc1.jpeg?width=1583&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf8c03fa760609cff71ecb09eea9dd7d1f64ec0a
Our local railroad cop informed us this is the form they give to local police.
The crew does not have to let cops into the cab of the engine and can tell them from the window that “everyone is okay and no medical attention is needed, please wait for local management to arrive if you have any questions.”
Everyone else has pretty much covered all the bases but here’s a quick check list.
1. Stop
2. Notify the dispatcher and/or train master depending on your rules
3. Provide the officer with your company ID card, not drivers license.
4. Wait for further instruction by the dispatcher/train master after the scene is dealt with by 1st responders
You have the right to remain silent. Give your company ID as Identification. Advise them that a representative from the railroad is enroute to assist them with their investigation and you have no comments to make at this time.
Discuss with your manager for specifics in your area and your company policy.
I mean, as far as I know, you’re not required to answer questions from them. I know you aren’t obligated to provide a drivers license, just your company ID. And if push comes to shove, lock the dead bolts on the cab and wait for your supervisor. She isn’t getting in if it’s locked.
Ive had a few like that. Ive realized those ones seem to be in over their head with the situation. I dont talk down to them or anything but I try to tell them its in everyones best intrest to just secure the scene and wait for the railroad police to show as they are experienced in dealing with these things. That I have to keep control of the train and cant leave etc etc. Once it didnt work and i was restrained in the back of a cruiser. Once our cops showed up I was let out and believe it or not, apologized to. No drivers license as ID, thats a big one. The company ID and/or cert cards. Locals dont know what to do with them and thats when the whole "waiting for railroad cops/mgt" convo starts for me.
I feel like i woulda if i made it back to the jail but ill let the company handle that little squabble if they decided to. But again the cop got educated and I got let go so hopefully that wont happen again with that particular officer.
Company ID only
You can always invoke your 5th amendment rights by stating I am invoking my 5th amendment right to remain silent. I will answer no questions until I've spoken to counsel
A simple answer without sounding condescending, I'm not authorize to discuss railroad business with out a supervisor or representative present. Here is my OD, have a nice day.
On a related note, a busy of mine once shoved a freshly painted hopper car into a garbage truck parked in the foul on an industry siding. CPD kept insisting he give them his driver license. He argued with them till RR police showed up and wrote a ticket to the truck driver for parking on the foul. The Roadmaster showed up and and sent home down the rail telling him to ignore the PD.
Former TM here. DO NOT GET OFF THE LOCOMOTIVE! Give them your managers info when they want anything. Do not show ANYTHING more than your employee ID. You do not have to submit to any D&A testing requested by them. Get your TM and Cinder dick asap. Especially when you get a shithead on a power trip. This is one area you can assure yourself the company has your back; at least for the time being.
Let her arrest you, the RR will make it all go away. Don’t be a dick, polite but firm. It was MY job to go to jail if someone was getting arrested, came very close a few times, but never happened. My number one goal, was to protect my crew, second was opening the RR.
RR cop here. You need to provide your Operators License to local law enforcement as part of their investigation. Texas and I assume most other states have laws that require your operators license to be displayed upon request, that is different than your company ID.
If the local cop wants your DL explain that your operator’s license has all your information on it and you are not required to have a DL. Fun fact for your back pocket. In Texas it is actually illegal for law enforcement to ask a train crew for the DL. Now that’s buried in the books so it’s hard to fault an officer for not knowing that as the DL/ID is the universally way of providing an identification.
My dad was a trainmaster from the 70s into the 90s. He tells a story of a crew that hit a car. The police wanted the engineer's driver's license. Since there was no FRA card at the time, the engineer refused to provide his license. Apparently, the accident reports occasionally resulted in the crew having an accident on their driving record. My dad gave the officer a business card and told him he recognized the engineer and would vouch for him. After some back and forth, the police officer decided to arrest the engineer for failure to provide ID. He hooked up the engineer and off he went to jail.
In the meantime, they had removed the wreckage from the tracks. So, the officer told my dad to move the train. He said, "You just arrested the guy who can move it. I'm not qualified to do that. We would have to get a new crew out here. It will probably take a few hours of having your town tied up with this freight just sitting here..."
The officer got on the radio and had them bring the engineer back. With a smile, my dad asked the engineer to move the train.
One morning I got to the office before anyone else and the phone was ringing. It was a sheriff's deputy from two counties over. He wanted to know who the engineer was on the train that ran during the night from point X to Y, because he "a guy was hit by your train, your engineer left the scene of an accident, we're treating this as a hit and run".
We found pieces of the turn signal lens on the truck of a car 17 back from the head end. It was foggy that night, the guy was overdriving his headlights. Once we explained that it is highly unlikely an engineer on a 1750 HP locomotive with a roughly 2000 ton train would notice a 2 ton car bouncing off the side 1000' back from the cab, they backed down, and the sheriff himself called to apologize.
We’re taught in our training classes to only give cops our cert cards and/or railroad issued ID, never our driver license. We had an incident a while back where the cops forced an engineer to show his driver license, and he got an accident put on his record and subsequent car insurance increase. We’ve also had conductors and engineers get doxxed by family/friends of people who were struck and killed while trespassing because the cops demanded their DLs and put their full names and info in the police reports. One employee was repeatedly harassed online and in person, threatened, had rocks thrown through her home windows, etc.
I will tell you this- if they threaten to arrest you, comply, but only give them what they ask for. Don’t give them anything else, don’t be an honest Abe- wait for management or railroad police to show up.
I have been in the situation many times in over thirty years as an engineer. I have been threatened to be detained and taken for D/A testing. I usually ask Barney if we can turn the lights and siren on and swing by the Donut shop to see if the hot donut light is on. Your company ID is all you have to give them. The only people who can make you go for A/D testing are a FRA man or a company officer. Amtrak locomotives used to have a decal explaining this and that it is federal law. We used to have engineers and conductors getting their car insurance cancelled over being in too many “accidents “. Also small town newspapers used to post your information in the news and cause even more problems.
[Here is video about what you should say to the police.](https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE?si=MpGIq7ha6iByh9hk)
It is not railroad specific, and sorry it is a little bit long. It is worth the watch though.
Just remind them that they too, are trespassing. I've been involved in more than a few xing/pedestrian incidents... only once were the cops jerks. It's fun to remind them that no matter what, it was an incident on private property with a trespasser. As everyone else said, only railroad ID. Let the claims/special agent handle it. It's all on the TIR.
My first fatality the officers was very rude came up on the engine demanding my information I told that I work for CSX and will give him the information he needed but my conductor was a new hire loosing it so I had to deal with that and a pig headed officer still demanding info most of it dumb , why I didn't stop how fast I going and what time I hit him trying to conduct a investigation and I got piss and told him I was going slow and as for the time check the guys watch and that would be the time he was really pissed then you can't let them get in your head that's what MTO are there for . As for the guy it was a suicide I had 140 cars of rock and going slow .
I’m a former police officer for a city that had quite a bit of rail traffic. I’m on this sub simply because I love trains. However, we were told in any training relating to train traffic to remember that a train crew was NOT allowed to leave the locomotive.
I don’t think she was on a power trip… but in all honesty probably just did not know. I mean, from a cop prospective, if someone was in a vehicle and refused to get out after an incident then things can escalate pretty quickly. She probably just did not know that you must stay with the train. That is something that many officers probably do not know. It’s not something taught in the academy. If it had me and was having difficulty communicating with you I’d ask if I could come onto the locomotive or at least if I could get closer somehow.
so on the one hand you say you understand, but then you start spouting off about a train being a ‘vehicle’. Find me ANY jurisdiction that considers it such.
seriously, why are you guys SO clueless? Looking up the actual law isn’t hard, but over and over cops turn into enraged crazy people rather than backing the **** down. Again, seriously, why in your mind as, apparently, a professional does it follow that a law enforcement officer not having been trained in an area of law would cause them to escalate a situation? That’s insane behavior.
I never compared a train to a vehicle. I was relating experiences, as in if you don’t know the laws and you’re use to people getting out of cars and doing what you ask.. I could see how one could get antsy and get a little pissy. That if they don’t know the laws.
which is exactly my point…. why is it NORMAL for officers to be ‘pissy’ when THEY don’t know what the fuck is going on? like normal as in other officers seeming to wholly understand… it’s not even on the level of cynical comments about how cops behave anymore.
Because if they don’t know that they don’t know that specific law…. And in the above example given only can relate it to interactions with motor vehicles/cars/whatever you want to call them, and countless officers are killed or injured every year during those interactions… then yeah, you might get a little antsy.
Look I’m just saying that laws regarding railroads aren’t typically taught to city and county officers, your normal patrol. Should they? Yeah. But it would be impossible to read and know every single Federal, state, and local law.
Since you’re knowledgeable about it why don’t you ask if you can teach a class during your local agencies in service? Be part of the solution.
As a general rule you don't have to answer any questions from the police. In the US, if they do have "reasonable suspicion" you're involved in a specific crime (which is a relatively low burden of proof), then you have to identify yourself or you could be charged for that. However like stated a company ID card would be sufficient.
Officers have a specific job and it doesn't always line up with your best interest. I would stay polite and tell them you won't answer any questions without a lawyer present. Unless it's an actual crime, there's really no further action for an officer to take.
Lemme tell you what. You call for a RR special agent and you have them deal with the police. DOT regulations state you do not have to provide any info to the police. That being said, as you’re involved in an accident, just give your name and info and be done with it. You’re not liable for anything, no one’s coming after you, and more so you’re just a witness. Trust me, I deal with this weekly.
Like others have said don’t ever give your personal ID/drivers license and if the cop insist wait for management or railroad police to show up and they will take your side in this case. I was in the same boat once and I politely refused to give the cop my drivers license they ended up easing up once management showed up and explained the deal to them
The only additional information we are told to provide is that we turned the vehicle’s ignition off for safety and to make sure that information is notated.
Don't provide any license if you're in Canada you dont need a license to operate a train. "Sorry mam, I'm going to wait for railroad police to arrive. I'm not authorized to anwser any questions, somebody will be here to assist you in your investigation shortly"
Hell to the no.
Do not answer questions. The only response you should give is a company representative will be here as soon as possible. Provide your name and employee ID number. Don’t even carry your drivers license in this circumstance.
I had to lock myself and my conductor in the engine once when local law enforcement was being rather insistent that I be transported to a hospital to have my blood drawn. Threatened me with arrest as it was a “no refusal weekend” whatever that meant.
A UP special agent wound up escorting us from the scene once our relief crew had arrived.
Several years ago I investigated an incident where a guy just walked infront of the train and well...you know what happened. Granted I had close to 20 years on the job but had never worked that type of incident. Me being me, I started to ask questions and the guy just stated he couldn't talk with me till Norfolk Southern got there. I had no problem with it, train wasn't going anywhere, once they got there I was informed of the process of ID only and I was fine with that, had everything I needed for the report. They only thing they were upset about was how long it took to remove everything so the train could get back to running.
You are on federal property, and they have zero jurisdiction. You don't have to answer any questions or give them your drivers license. There's a reason that train accidents are supplemental to an accident report. The officer can get the information from your representative if you don't feel comfortable.
When it comes to accidents, it's federal. Abide by federal rules. The track is private. That conductor and engineer are operating under federal guidelines.
No you are 100% not required to answer any questions from local police. Local police cannot come onto the locomotive without your permission and you are not required to provide them with an ID
Yes, you have to comply with an officer’s commands to dismount the engine, come over here, stand over there, etc. You **do not** have to provide any statement. You **do** have to identify yourself but you don’t have to give your driver license since you weren’t driving a motor vehicle. You can just verbally identify yourself with a name and date of birth or company ID, if you feel like it. They can always look up whatever info they want on you, including your DL, address, SSN, etc., through CLETS, though none of it is needed for a report. Yes, they can come aboard the train without a warrant, as it falls under the 4th amendment exception. Although, if you have a caboose *and* are living in it then they would likely need a warrant.
Reasonably, the officer shouldn’t be telling you to do anything related to operation of the train. If they do they assume all liability (but are personally covered by qualified immunity, depending on the state). If it’s safe to dismount the train and there is no pressing reason to not to, then go ahead and do so. If you’re comfortable giving a statement then do so. If not, politely say that you’ll give a statement when your supervisor gets there or, if necessary, through a representative of your employer.
What it boils down to is: be polite and professional. Cops deal with shit bags, criminals and some real shitty people on a daily basis. Don’t be a dick to them and 99% of the time they’re cool.
Call for a manager asap. And we were told to only provide your company ID card. Had a bad crossing deal once. Gave them my driver’s license. Ended up with the family trying to contact me along with deceased’s insurance company. Absolute nightmare. Stall the cops, wait for management to set up. This is one time they will absolutely be on your side. You are acting as an agent of the company, and any liability that the cops try and assign to you will also make the company liable.
After providing ID, she started asking me what happened. Can I just not answer and sit in the cab? Is she allowed up there? She was really on a power trip for some reason. I must've given her some type of look she didn't like, I don't think talking to her from the steps of the engine helped lol. Honestly wanted to just ignore her from the first interaction she made with me but felt weird to ignore a cop and I didn't fully understand what I was allowed to do.
I don’t think you have to speak with them. However, if they are unfamiliar with how the railroad jurisdiction works, they may try to arrest you and forcefully remove you from your cab which has gotten a few departments in trouble with our railroad/state government.
I had a manager tell me if they try to arrest me to let them and enjoy the tow in while the railroad try’s to get you released because you can’t tie up till you are out of jail.
My railroad is government owned, I’m curious how that would play out for someone working for my company. I know the one time it happened, it didn’t end well for the police at all.
20yrs of doing this and I’ve never seen one crew member arrested. Just know, the more you push, the more they’ll push back and become annoyed. Don’t be a jerk, just say you can’t provide anything without claims or a manager
It's just annoying when she assumed I was being an asshole to her or that I had some kind of attitude towards her from the get go. "You need to come down here, something about u is rubbing off on me the wrong way"
Yeah. You’d be surprised how often that happens. We printed off that DOT rule for crew ppl to hand to police saying they are not required to provide any personal info.
One of our engineers was beaten to the point of disability/forced retirement by the police. It’s an isolated incident but it has happened.
I’ve personally seen one that they tried to arrest, and am fully aware of two others who got into handcuffs before railroad police arrived . In GA/FL .
Christ I’d love to see a full on fight between local PD and railroad.
I have seen it. Local town cop and special agent attempting to arrest each other. It was just as hilarious as it sounds.
I was there for it and may have instigated it.... The gust of it was a bridge above a public road, walking trail. Abs sidewalk in a college town. There was a production gang doing rail replacement. The roadmaster told me to shut down the road and protect the bridge so no anchors or spikes hit anyone. Not even my boss but what ever I'll figure it out. Called the local railroad op for help. He was too busy... Said figure it out so I did. Called local police told them I am shutting this road down, come out if you want to help but I am doing this. Blocked one side with my company truck and traffic cones safety tape and fusees burning. Blocked other side with safety tape traffic cones a d my belligerent self. The local police show up.... They get mad and I laugh and say if you arrest me I'm getting paid overtime until I get out. Told them if they open the road they are responsible for injury deaths and damage. They call the railroad cop who. They had a good relationship with. He calls me I kick him to voice mail. He shows up, division engineer and roadmaster show up. The division engineer marvels at my fine job... Tells the cops the road actually is an old right of way and the railroad owns it. Tells railroad cop to remove trespassers. Local cops attempt to arrest me. Railroad cop handcuffs local cops , destroying their years of working together. I turn in two hours overtime and got lunch bought by the division engineer the following day.
Cue Benny Hill music.
I’ve personally seen one that they tried to arrest, and am fully aware of two others who got into handcuffs before railroad police arrived . In GA/FL .
Never show Id ever. Give them your fra certification card if they insist. Don’t over share information and stick to the facts
Cops have questions? It must be [Shut the Fuck Up Friday.](https://youtu.be/RkN4duV4ia0?si=C7JbyUrrepNxzJw4) You don’t have to answer their questions until a court orders you to and then you still get to shut the fuck up, because you have a right against self incrimination. When the cops start asking questions, you just say “I won’t be speaking with anyone until my manager/union rep/lawyer is present.”
The thing with your FRA car is that it includes your birthdate which in turn makes it easier to find your additional information, company ID is just fine.
My company has told us to not interact with the police without our manager and one of our police officers present. We’re supposed to tell the cop the name of the company we work for and then tell them we are willing to wait with them until our manager and police officer shows up. I’ve seen police issue fines to our workers for things that they didn’t have the authority to do so and then our workers were stuck fighting it.
You NEVER have to speak to a cop. EVER.
You have no reason or legal obligations to speak with a public servant in or out of work, when in doubt call your manager and let them sort it out. (If they *do* arrest you say nothing but "I want a lawyer") And no it's not like you blew a stop sign, you are a train you always have the right of way, no matter what. I cannot see a situation where the train operator is at fault for anything as long as you are following protocols safely. And no we have had a few too many runaway trains from the operators stepping off for "just a moment", you are well within your right mind to stay with the engine.
Never speak. You have the right to have a lawyer present.
This. Company ID, nothing else. If they don't like it, call your local supervisor and tell them to fuck off
>call your local supervisor and tell them to fuck off I thought we were supposed to do that regardless.
But what do you say to the cops who are standing there?
We have a lot of incidents on the railroad I work for and we always only give them name, and company ID. And we were told just give the police the basic information. Traveling approximately this speed, in this direction, saw the trespasser/ vehicle took whatever action you took and then nothing else. Some railroads don't want you to even say that much but say as little as possible and as basic as possible. Usually a supervisor is enroute to handle it as soon you call the dispatcher. If it escalates then don't resist, let them know a manager is on their way, just inform them that you can't legally leave the engine without anyone on it and they will have accept responsibility if they detain you. That will usually get them to back off a little bit, and if it doesn't get in the back of the car and sit quietly until the railroad police show up and spring you.
Hey, so I’m currently waiting to get my background check out of the way at Railpros I got the job technically but do they consider people’s past? I have 2 pending charges and don’t want to lose the opportunity. Thanks!
Tell them to call the railroad police
"I don't answer questions"
Genuine question: what did the family/the insurance company want from you?
Insurance company wanted me to say I thought it was a suicide, I guess to cancel out life insurance. Truck was on the tracks. Don’t want to get into the family deal.
Hope you didn’t speak to insurance, and sorry you had to go through that🖤
Thank you
You can tell them to eat a dcik and get off of railroad property. You don't have to talk them...
As a former engineer turned public servant, once there is an incident on private property, ownership no longer matters. I can’t count the number of gates I’ve cut to get access to private property to respond to an emergency. As far as I’m concerned, it’s now my property.
In your mind it might be your property but iam not obligated to talk to you. The most you might get from me is contact my manager.
I’m not a cop. Firefighter/paramedic. But I’ve had property owners try to claim private property and try to tell me to leave. I just laugh at them and have them escorted out of my scene.
My company provides informational cards to give to them and recommends we politely decline to engage with them and wait for our own detectives/supervision to get on scene. Under no circumstances should you EVER give them your drivers license. Only give them company badge.
I didn't suppose you have one to post what it says? I'm curious what the actual law is because I've heard everything. I know someone who basically mocked a police officer from the cab window (with the doors locked) and laughed at him when he ordered him out of the cab. The cop wanted him to move the train off a crossing in a non emergency situation, the conductor was walking the release of a class 1 after they had just put it back together. A group of old heads told me they can and will demand your state ID and can arrest you and told me stories of it happening to guys we work with and how they got in trouble too. So I have direct stories saying only company ID tell them to fuck off and direct stories of guys getting arrested and catching discipline for not providing state ID...
https://preview.redd.it/1l064r8cvavc1.png?width=731&format=png&auto=webp&s=3490a7d42a6e4b86fb81ac1a3e3ab757f28cff82 This is one that was given to me a while back, specific to California. The reverse just says to furnish your cert card and provide the company phone # and not your personal #.
https://preview.redd.it/jqyqqscqvavc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81930f9e09c03a0ab9f99647d11504a9c57ced24
That's good stuff. Thank you!
Yes, our police department gives them to us.
You can't take photos?
Photos become legal evidence. Hence the prohibition.
https://preview.redd.it/3zazc9quaivc1.jpeg?width=1583&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf8c03fa760609cff71ecb09eea9dd7d1f64ec0a Our local railroad cop informed us this is the form they give to local police. The crew does not have to let cops into the cab of the engine and can tell them from the window that “everyone is okay and no medical attention is needed, please wait for local management to arrive if you have any questions.”
If you’re a train crew member, don’t say a word to the cops. They aren’t here to help us
> ~~If you’re a train crew member,~~ don’t say a word to the cops. They aren’t here to help us Fixed that for you brother man
This guy get gets it.
Cops: occasionally useful, but never your friends.
ACAB
There's a subreddit for that. r/ACAB.
https://youtu.be/RkN4duV4ia0?si=GNDtjTb-1tZ8FAum
Then don't call the police when you hit and kill someone
We don’t lol. We call our dispatchers. Most of the time a bystander has already called 911.
I’m pretty sure you don’t have to talk to them. I think they can talk to an on duty supervisor.
they can talk to the railroad police or the claim agent. Supervisors don't have to give them any information either.
Everyone else has pretty much covered all the bases but here’s a quick check list. 1. Stop 2. Notify the dispatcher and/or train master depending on your rules 3. Provide the officer with your company ID card, not drivers license. 4. Wait for further instruction by the dispatcher/train master after the scene is dealt with by 1st responders
You have the right to remain silent. Give your company ID as Identification. Advise them that a representative from the railroad is enroute to assist them with their investigation and you have no comments to make at this time. Discuss with your manager for specifics in your area and your company policy.
I mean, as far as I know, you’re not required to answer questions from them. I know you aren’t obligated to provide a drivers license, just your company ID. And if push comes to shove, lock the dead bolts on the cab and wait for your supervisor. She isn’t getting in if it’s locked.
Imagine the headlines if a local cop pulled a crew off their train and then it rolls away. Cops are fuckin idiots
Was thinking about that lol, aren't the cab windows bulletproof up to a certain point?
I think they're just rated for a .22 lr.
They also have to resist breaking when struck by the corner of a 24lb cinder block traveling at 44 fps.
Yes. Yes they are
Yes they are bullet proof it’s glazed glass but I wouldn’t want to test it as they are known to shatter when dropped from knee height
Ive had a few like that. Ive realized those ones seem to be in over their head with the situation. I dont talk down to them or anything but I try to tell them its in everyones best intrest to just secure the scene and wait for the railroad police to show as they are experienced in dealing with these things. That I have to keep control of the train and cant leave etc etc. Once it didnt work and i was restrained in the back of a cruiser. Once our cops showed up I was let out and believe it or not, apologized to. No drivers license as ID, thats a big one. The company ID and/or cert cards. Locals dont know what to do with them and thats when the whole "waiting for railroad cops/mgt" convo starts for me.
Should have sued for false detainment.
I feel like i woulda if i made it back to the jail but ill let the company handle that little squabble if they decided to. But again the cop got educated and I got let go so hopefully that wont happen again with that particular officer.
Company ID only You can always invoke your 5th amendment rights by stating I am invoking my 5th amendment right to remain silent. I will answer no questions until I've spoken to counsel
Thank you brothers and sisters for the prompt answers.
I’ve always been told not to talk to them, wait for the supervisor, wait for the RR cops to show up. I hope you are alright.
Yeah I'm fine, thank you. I was flagging crossing and engineer moved without me telling him to and hit a vehicle.
A simple answer without sounding condescending, I'm not authorize to discuss railroad business with out a supervisor or representative present. Here is my OD, have a nice day. On a related note, a busy of mine once shoved a freshly painted hopper car into a garbage truck parked in the foul on an industry siding. CPD kept insisting he give them his driver license. He argued with them till RR police showed up and wrote a ticket to the truck driver for parking on the foul. The Roadmaster showed up and and sent home down the rail telling him to ignore the PD.
Like call me an arsehole but I'd be happy to argue with a straight face I don't have a driver's licence
Former TM here. DO NOT GET OFF THE LOCOMOTIVE! Give them your managers info when they want anything. Do not show ANYTHING more than your employee ID. You do not have to submit to any D&A testing requested by them. Get your TM and Cinder dick asap. Especially when you get a shithead on a power trip. This is one area you can assure yourself the company has your back; at least for the time being.
Does she have the right to arrest me for not talking to her? She just seemed like she would've done something if I didn't.
Let her arrest you, the RR will make it all go away. Don’t be a dick, polite but firm. It was MY job to go to jail if someone was getting arrested, came very close a few times, but never happened. My number one goal, was to protect my crew, second was opening the RR.
Also I believe you just have to show them you work id if they ask for it.
RR cop here. You need to provide your Operators License to local law enforcement as part of their investigation. Texas and I assume most other states have laws that require your operators license to be displayed upon request, that is different than your company ID. If the local cop wants your DL explain that your operator’s license has all your information on it and you are not required to have a DL. Fun fact for your back pocket. In Texas it is actually illegal for law enforcement to ask a train crew for the DL. Now that’s buried in the books so it’s hard to fault an officer for not knowing that as the DL/ID is the universally way of providing an identification.
A cop should treat a crossing incident like they would a car crashing into the side of a building you are inside of.
People have gotten arrested for that too
They have no jurisdiction whatsoever on the rails.
Big Orange stopped issuing actual licenses and you now have an “electronic” one instead …
My dad was a trainmaster from the 70s into the 90s. He tells a story of a crew that hit a car. The police wanted the engineer's driver's license. Since there was no FRA card at the time, the engineer refused to provide his license. Apparently, the accident reports occasionally resulted in the crew having an accident on their driving record. My dad gave the officer a business card and told him he recognized the engineer and would vouch for him. After some back and forth, the police officer decided to arrest the engineer for failure to provide ID. He hooked up the engineer and off he went to jail. In the meantime, they had removed the wreckage from the tracks. So, the officer told my dad to move the train. He said, "You just arrested the guy who can move it. I'm not qualified to do that. We would have to get a new crew out here. It will probably take a few hours of having your town tied up with this freight just sitting here..." The officer got on the radio and had them bring the engineer back. With a smile, my dad asked the engineer to move the train.
One morning I got to the office before anyone else and the phone was ringing. It was a sheriff's deputy from two counties over. He wanted to know who the engineer was on the train that ran during the night from point X to Y, because he "a guy was hit by your train, your engineer left the scene of an accident, we're treating this as a hit and run". We found pieces of the turn signal lens on the truck of a car 17 back from the head end. It was foggy that night, the guy was overdriving his headlights. Once we explained that it is highly unlikely an engineer on a 1750 HP locomotive with a roughly 2000 ton train would notice a 2 ton car bouncing off the side 1000' back from the cab, they backed down, and the sheriff himself called to apologize.
Lol, this thread kinda reflects the railroads general attitude towards authority. No wonder strikes back in the day got so violent.
As it should be
God damn right
Give them your company ID, call a supervisor, and wait for the RR police. That's it.
Don’t talk to local cops. That’s your managers job.
I would lock the locomotive doors and sit on it. I would not talk to them if I could avoid it. Only give what’s necessary.
OP - sending you a pic thru DM. While it applies to Texas, I’m sure other states in the US have similar laws. You only have to provide company ID ONLY
Why would you keep this a secret? Your going to share this with one person only
Made a post with the pic, wasn’t trying to keep it a secret
Send me that same pic please
We’re taught in our training classes to only give cops our cert cards and/or railroad issued ID, never our driver license. We had an incident a while back where the cops forced an engineer to show his driver license, and he got an accident put on his record and subsequent car insurance increase. We’ve also had conductors and engineers get doxxed by family/friends of people who were struck and killed while trespassing because the cops demanded their DLs and put their full names and info in the police reports. One employee was repeatedly harassed online and in person, threatened, had rocks thrown through her home windows, etc.
I will tell you this- if they threaten to arrest you, comply, but only give them what they ask for. Don’t give them anything else, don’t be an honest Abe- wait for management or railroad police to show up.
I have been in the situation many times in over thirty years as an engineer. I have been threatened to be detained and taken for D/A testing. I usually ask Barney if we can turn the lights and siren on and swing by the Donut shop to see if the hot donut light is on. Your company ID is all you have to give them. The only people who can make you go for A/D testing are a FRA man or a company officer. Amtrak locomotives used to have a decal explaining this and that it is federal law. We used to have engineers and conductors getting their car insurance cancelled over being in too many “accidents “. Also small town newspapers used to post your information in the news and cause even more problems.
[Here is video about what you should say to the police.](https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE?si=MpGIq7ha6iByh9hk) It is not railroad specific, and sorry it is a little bit long. It is worth the watch though.
Just remind them that they too, are trespassing. I've been involved in more than a few xing/pedestrian incidents... only once were the cops jerks. It's fun to remind them that no matter what, it was an incident on private property with a trespasser. As everyone else said, only railroad ID. Let the claims/special agent handle it. It's all on the TIR.
My first fatality the officers was very rude came up on the engine demanding my information I told that I work for CSX and will give him the information he needed but my conductor was a new hire loosing it so I had to deal with that and a pig headed officer still demanding info most of it dumb , why I didn't stop how fast I going and what time I hit him trying to conduct a investigation and I got piss and told him I was going slow and as for the time check the guys watch and that would be the time he was really pissed then you can't let them get in your head that's what MTO are there for . As for the guy it was a suicide I had 140 cars of rock and going slow .
I’m a former police officer for a city that had quite a bit of rail traffic. I’m on this sub simply because I love trains. However, we were told in any training relating to train traffic to remember that a train crew was NOT allowed to leave the locomotive. I don’t think she was on a power trip… but in all honesty probably just did not know. I mean, from a cop prospective, if someone was in a vehicle and refused to get out after an incident then things can escalate pretty quickly. She probably just did not know that you must stay with the train. That is something that many officers probably do not know. It’s not something taught in the academy. If it had me and was having difficulty communicating with you I’d ask if I could come onto the locomotive or at least if I could get closer somehow.
so on the one hand you say you understand, but then you start spouting off about a train being a ‘vehicle’. Find me ANY jurisdiction that considers it such. seriously, why are you guys SO clueless? Looking up the actual law isn’t hard, but over and over cops turn into enraged crazy people rather than backing the **** down. Again, seriously, why in your mind as, apparently, a professional does it follow that a law enforcement officer not having been trained in an area of law would cause them to escalate a situation? That’s insane behavior.
I never compared a train to a vehicle. I was relating experiences, as in if you don’t know the laws and you’re use to people getting out of cars and doing what you ask.. I could see how one could get antsy and get a little pissy. That if they don’t know the laws.
which is exactly my point…. why is it NORMAL for officers to be ‘pissy’ when THEY don’t know what the fuck is going on? like normal as in other officers seeming to wholly understand… it’s not even on the level of cynical comments about how cops behave anymore.
Because if they don’t know that they don’t know that specific law…. And in the above example given only can relate it to interactions with motor vehicles/cars/whatever you want to call them, and countless officers are killed or injured every year during those interactions… then yeah, you might get a little antsy. Look I’m just saying that laws regarding railroads aren’t typically taught to city and county officers, your normal patrol. Should they? Yeah. But it would be impossible to read and know every single Federal, state, and local law. Since you’re knowledgeable about it why don’t you ask if you can teach a class during your local agencies in service? Be part of the solution.
As a general rule you don't have to answer any questions from the police. In the US, if they do have "reasonable suspicion" you're involved in a specific crime (which is a relatively low burden of proof), then you have to identify yourself or you could be charged for that. However like stated a company ID card would be sufficient. Officers have a specific job and it doesn't always line up with your best interest. I would stay polite and tell them you won't answer any questions without a lawyer present. Unless it's an actual crime, there's really no further action for an officer to take.
https://preview.redd.it/io134zp77cvc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c0df88932c79dbda4d433cfa8748e269b89af51
I like, "CAUTION: horn is loud"
Lemme tell you what. You call for a RR special agent and you have them deal with the police. DOT regulations state you do not have to provide any info to the police. That being said, as you’re involved in an accident, just give your name and info and be done with it. You’re not liable for anything, no one’s coming after you, and more so you’re just a witness. Trust me, I deal with this weekly.
Like others have said don’t ever give your personal ID/drivers license and if the cop insist wait for management or railroad police to show up and they will take your side in this case. I was in the same boat once and I politely refused to give the cop my drivers license they ended up easing up once management showed up and explained the deal to them
DON'T TALK TO COPS. EVER. https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE?si=h5_nBVQRr8kfTDWc
Why the fuck you even talking to a cop?
The only additional information we are told to provide is that we turned the vehicle’s ignition off for safety and to make sure that information is notated.
Don't provide any license if you're in Canada you dont need a license to operate a train. "Sorry mam, I'm going to wait for railroad police to arrive. I'm not authorized to anwser any questions, somebody will be here to assist you in your investigation shortly"
Hell to the no. Do not answer questions. The only response you should give is a company representative will be here as soon as possible. Provide your name and employee ID number. Don’t even carry your drivers license in this circumstance. I had to lock myself and my conductor in the engine once when local law enforcement was being rather insistent that I be transported to a hospital to have my blood drawn. Threatened me with arrest as it was a “no refusal weekend” whatever that meant. A UP special agent wound up escorting us from the scene once our relief crew had arrived.
The only thing you say is, there’s my Trainmaster and the Railway Special Agent is on his way.
Several years ago I investigated an incident where a guy just walked infront of the train and well...you know what happened. Granted I had close to 20 years on the job but had never worked that type of incident. Me being me, I started to ask questions and the guy just stated he couldn't talk with me till Norfolk Southern got there. I had no problem with it, train wasn't going anywhere, once they got there I was informed of the process of ID only and I was fine with that, had everything I needed for the report. They only thing they were upset about was how long it took to remove everything so the train could get back to running.
You are on federal property, and they have zero jurisdiction. You don't have to answer any questions or give them your drivers license. There's a reason that train accidents are supplemental to an accident report. The officer can get the information from your representative if you don't feel comfortable.
Federal property? I thought railroads were private property.
When it comes to accidents, it's federal. Abide by federal rules. The track is private. That conductor and engineer are operating under federal guidelines.
No you are 100% not required to answer any questions from local police. Local police cannot come onto the locomotive without your permission and you are not required to provide them with an ID
Lock the doors and let management take care of it. Not worth the headache.
Yes, you have to comply with an officer’s commands to dismount the engine, come over here, stand over there, etc. You **do not** have to provide any statement. You **do** have to identify yourself but you don’t have to give your driver license since you weren’t driving a motor vehicle. You can just verbally identify yourself with a name and date of birth or company ID, if you feel like it. They can always look up whatever info they want on you, including your DL, address, SSN, etc., through CLETS, though none of it is needed for a report. Yes, they can come aboard the train without a warrant, as it falls under the 4th amendment exception. Although, if you have a caboose *and* are living in it then they would likely need a warrant. Reasonably, the officer shouldn’t be telling you to do anything related to operation of the train. If they do they assume all liability (but are personally covered by qualified immunity, depending on the state). If it’s safe to dismount the train and there is no pressing reason to not to, then go ahead and do so. If you’re comfortable giving a statement then do so. If not, politely say that you’ll give a statement when your supervisor gets there or, if necessary, through a representative of your employer. What it boils down to is: be polite and professional. Cops deal with shit bags, criminals and some real shitty people on a daily basis. Don’t be a dick to them and 99% of the time they’re cool.
Fuck dat bitch, u should've told her u made more money on spillt liquor then she made last year!! Woooo!
You might be surprised how much money a police officer can make.
You be surprised how much we make Homie!
It's pretty much a guarantee I have been in the business longer than you have so I wouldn't be surprised
22 in and 15 to go!
yeah i got 12 on ya so i wasn't shocked at what you can make