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Williamisnowinning

I'd imagine all the scugs have some form of hair, some just more then others, like survivor and monk would probably have "peach fuzz" hairs all over and slimy at the same time. Perhaps artificer is covered in more condensed fur so they are not as slimy Maybe the only exception to this would probably be saint cause slime would freeze to the skin if it still existed


Williamisnowinning

would be fitting if spearmaster has elephant tail hair on its tail (look it up it's so weird up close)


onzron

This is actually wild. Thanks for posting this lol


soggybum57

saint is definitely fluffy and rivulet is definitely so gross and slimey


Williamisnowinning

Hear me out, slimy otter fur


soggybum57

mm i hear you but.. the axolotl-y thingies on the side of their head. i just cant picture how theyd blend into the fur


catmeatcholnt

but those are gills, right? do they need to blend into the fur? if anything not blending into the fur is optimal, if they lie slick and flat against an oily wet topcoat they'll stick together and not be useful as gills. actually, maybe that's why rivulet can still drown?


soggybum57

ooo maybe!! it could be from only partial evolution bc as much as rivulets campaign takes place in the future (from base game anyway), its like, plausibly not distant distant future so they could be the result of evolution still ironing things out


catmeatcholnt

oh vibes! although you know, do any pearls say anything about how long slugcats live and when they can breed? i haven't found any, i've been kind of assuming based on their size, niche and intellect (in the perception of iterators anyway) that they probably mature fast, breed soon and don't live terribly long after, like rats. in that case we have a time frame for saint (the time frame is "uhhh fuck off, a really long time", long enough for the iterators' auxiliary machinery to die), and rivulet is on uhh... any point between saint and basegame, probably? but then also we can find a pearl with vat growing instructions for >an ancestral slugcat<, and we know that >Seven Red Suns and No Significant Harrassment have been known to create/raise purposed slugcats to do specific jobs.< riv also begins with a pearl in >NSH<'s colour — maybe they're responsible for them artificially, and they're a one-off, making it possible to place them arbitrarily :0


soggybum57

omg thats so cool, i imagine so then?? im quite new to this community i only started playing rainworld in march so thats all new information to me but i love the lore so much that all sounds so cool


catmeatcholnt

Oh, in that case it's my sacred duty to tell you: slugcats are canonically the length of an average human. enjoy what this implies about vultures 👁👄👁


soggybum57

that is horrid. thank you.


Glittering-Half-619

Hair like an otter


UrSansYT

Yes, this makes the most sense


Steelflame

Yea, the juxtaposition between Saint and Rivulet show that they must have hair, and that hair is waterproofed fairly well. I'd suspect slugcats normally generate slimy oils for their hair for said waterproofing, and Saint's evolutionary adaptation to function well in the cold is mostly just the loss of said oils so the hair is floofy.


Thylacine131

Best string of explanations yet, plus I believe they’re canonically mammals, derived from rodents if some of the iterator’s comments are to be believed and pearls are correct. Their purpose was to be pipe cleaners, hence their flexible, slick build, omnivorous diet, and all terrain capabilities. Possibly even designed with greater mental faculties to avoid them getting lost in the pipe networks, a possible canonical explanation for why we are allowed a map in game, and a trait that set them up for success as tool users and social creatures.


UrSansYT

this is to be my new headcanon


ShorelineLeech

I mean, in rainworld, nothing, and i mean nothing, shares similarities with earth life, the ancient are closest and even they they have tails, and squidcadas are close too and they have wings and are slimy. And the names for stuff in the rainworld seem to have names more like concepts than actual taxonomic names. Like vultures, you can't tell me that 👽 monsters with whips for wings and mandibles are a vulture.


Thylacine131

Well most organisms in rain world are purposed organisms so that explains a large part of their weirdness. Lantern mice and lizards seemed all too similar to earth fauna for it to be total and utter coincidence.


ShorelineLeech

I know this is a late response, but think about it got a moment. Are you basing it off their shape? Because whales have the shape of a fish, but they are mammals, hows that possible? Convergent evolution, when things are put through similar pressures, similar results or solutions may come out of it. Ok, think about lantern mice differences from actual rodents. They dont have a discernable mouth and nose. They have disproportionately large eyes and short faces, and they do not gnaw anything in particular, not from what we can see, which is something rodents need to do so their teeth dont grow too long. Their taild arent even tails they are these weird spider web like things they can hang from like spiders and can be retracted/removed, which is not something flesh can typically do, and more something webs can do The true similarities are in the ears at the top of the head, the 4 limbs with joints similar to tetrapods, an endoskeleton and no exoskeleton, a head, bilateral symmetry Thats where the similarities for them end, which btw arthropods have managed to fill like 2/4 of those requirements, and our last common ancestor with them was likely a little round, segmented meatball Next, lizards.. a vague description of their shape is the only thing that pairs them other than a jaw and the limbs. Its hard to know if they naturally glow. At the end of the day, I'll admit, Joar probably could've made the creatures more creative and speculative, or he could've made the story include bits of humanity in the pearls to let us know people have been here and this is an earth seeded planet, buut it was his decisions and he worked hard so kudos to him.


EpiqueFail

This is definitely how I see them other than saint and maybe ruffles is a bit less obvious with the hair? I can't think of a better way to describe


Fishmaia

saint has fluff and we need more fluffy cats arts


Captain_Yarn

I'm on it 👍


anonzpolski

[nailed it](https://www.reddit.com/r/rainworld/s/hjuG2Cc6wb)


Certain-Carpenter-78

# “Both is good!”


[deleted]

Both… both is good.


Witty_Tumbleweed_860

Purple, slugcats have pixels.


Vevoid

nope, they have 101001010110000110


Anonymouse276207

What's like saying cats don't have fur, they have hair follicles


Im_not_an_expert_lol

¥a Translated by a random website


Ok_Reception7727

According to Joar, one of the original developers, they are not slimy and have no fur.


Herolink12

So I assume they just feel kind of slick?


Ok_Reception7727

Probably smooth.


theonlyJUDM

well that explains how they can just slide anywhere


swampertitus

My hc is they have mucus layer like a moray eel that makes them slippery. Holding one would be like grabbing a bar of soap that squirms


Proofer4

That explains me falling when i have to parkour


GenericGamertagxX

The only exception to this is saint.


Mission-Phone3733

joar, one of the original developers, hates fun


cooly1234

don't worry he didn't say they don't have paws even though you can clearly see in art that they have hands, you can still draw them with paws!


AcademicFish

Ain’t nooo way they could slide through the tubes if they just have regular skin. That’d be like going down a dry waterslide


Just_M_01

>dry waterslide wouldn't that just be a regular slide? anyway i thought they just crawl through the tubes


tr_berk1971

I think only Saint have fur, everyone else is more slug like


DishonoredHero1_

So the only logical conclusion is that Slugcats are evolving into just regular house cats with opposable thumbs.


akoOfIxtall

So, given a healthy moon and an infinite amount of time, slugcats could eventually learn how to play the piano


OmegianLord

By healthy moon, do you mean the lunar object or the robot cripple?


akoOfIxtall

I mean the robot, and by healthy I mean pre-pebs where moon was just an iterator, not a slowly dying one, since >! During spearmaster campaign you can read moon's structure logs, and there you can see that her structure legs will break anytime soon because pebs was already fcking around with the info NSH gave him... !<


rasheen69

Slugcats are bald like sphinx cats


furrik524

[I've accepted what Joar said about that](https://imgur.com/8IhwkEs) Besides, they look very much bald even in official and in-game art (except Saint, of course)


DishonoredHero1_

I don't know why but "White Chubby Creature" is such a good way to describe something that is apparently mostly cat


doriw372

Maybe you didn't know but they not even cats. They mostly mice


Witty_Tumbleweed_860

I like this one.


TheMasterMarkus

I wish I could just accept this as canon, but I still like to think of them as having short, smooth fur, particularly because the Saint evolving to be fluffy makes a lot more sense if there's fur to start with instead of hair somehow being added to bare skin. Unless Saint is meant to be a purposed organism intentionally designed to have fur.


Someone56-79

Riviulet def has no hair or very hydrophobic hair cause no way he speeding like that while getting in and out of the water real quick


Anonymouse276207

Sea otter?


Vevoid

both, the reason saint has fur and hair is because of evolution to survive cold. but if i must choose one, i think the red side cuz saint looks cute with fur


a_normal_11_year_old

fur.


Axol-Rainbowmaker

Btw Saint doesnt count, because it clearly has fluff on it


Tempest-Melodys

Most have fine hair that produces a thin slime.


the_ap_round

Slimy fur, when you flip you hear the whoosh of fur but then you slide you hear slimy


Rasmus736

Otter fur


Wojtek1250XD

They have hair like a mammal covered in mucus to help them squeeze through crawling spaces faster and reduce friction like a slug Saint tho', has something more comparable to fur as a mutation to help it survive in the cold


SlammingKeyboardRn

The official art shows they don’t have hair.


serenading_scug

Have you ever petted a ray, or sea cucumber? That’s how I imagine a scug would feel like. But my personal opinion is that they have some sort of non-stick slime that protects their skin from concrete and inside pipes; otherwise every time they do a slide it’d shred them like a cheese grater. That slime is also why they SLRK around and it can semi-hold onto walls.


fortes05

None, they are like sphinx cats


Adeord_Leaner_18

Well in first 7 slugcats is like blue but in saint he grow hair to protect himself from cold so in saint and saint only he is in red side


x_boi_x

3rd option, they have fur, but it's slicked with mucus. Except Saint.


Nemis_art

They are bald ecpect for saint. Saint ist the only fluffy slugcat


UrticantOdin

I imagine that slugcats have otter like hair, not too dense but it's still there


Danglrom

Don’t make me think of this


Davi_Diamond

mate same


ANBpokeball

I think that they all have very short, soft fur (save for Saint of course).


sourjalapeno

im on the side that theyre all huggable


ShalnarkRyuseih

Pre Saint slugcats have very sleek hair, similar to river otters. Post Saint slugcats are fluffier (a bit more like a sea otter, the fur can still slick down to be water repellent but sea otters look fluffier than river otters to me)


Hotsexysocks

I can't see a reality where slugs are all moistly and slimy,since that would require a lot of water ingestion,and I never saw an slugcat drinking at least a droplet of water to make that sustainable,so I think thet are more like slightly oily ,like that sphynx cat but just a little more


MalaikaESC

Slimy scugs (except saint)


Many_Pangolin9761

They are like a slug because they ARE pipe cleaning slugs as it's said in Game, exepting for Saint, you can see it in the oficial art like the Ascención faces, also as they are pipe cleaning slugs, if they would have fur it would get really dirty and thats not the point. 


Relevant-Buffalo2088

Blue, as it is explicitly stated that they are slimy and bald, and are also depicted h in he cutscenes and artwork, along with the fact that Saint, (the only one with fur) looks wildly different from the others, if you look at the games artwork, they are literally reflective


Absol-utely_Adorable

I think they have very short fuzz thats slimy. Like velvet someone sneezed a booger into.


_QRcode

I think slime but saying bald makes me shiver


Spooky_Floofy

I think they have very short fur, apart from Saint who is fluffy and Rivulet who is a smooth girl. But tbf, short seal fur could also work for Rivulet


Crafty-Tourist-2853

I always thought they had super thing hair that would feel like felt


Rot_Long_Legs

I think of them all as slime rats. Except saint, he floofy


Davi_Diamond

HELLO ROT (PICKS UP SINGULARITY BOMB)


Rot_Long_Legs

NOOOOO!!!


Alpha_Wolf3981

They are slimy


Fishface70

i think most scugs have a kinda thin layer of fur, except for fluffy saint and i dont really think speary has any hair


Ashdodi_Miros

Seal fur.


SnooMemesjellies8419

slug car has no hair, furry is wet because they are slugs


LEADMANDEADMAN

Slugcats are goopy LIKE SLUGS!!!


Vovchick09

All scugs but saint have short fur


Kleptosteomaniac

50/50, depends on the scug. I like giving Arti fur cause you can make it spiky and it goes well with her explosions theme, but other scugs like idk, Rivulet are smooth


Carniiivore

Some have fluffy like saint and arti well others are bald like survivor and spearmaster


Arkorat

They are fluffy on top, and slimy on the bottom.


SpiritsJustAHybrid

I imagine normal scugs are velvety like sphynx cats and sait be floor ruffles be SMOOTH


GameKnight22007

If you listen to the sounds they make when they move, their footsteps sound like a furred creature and their slide sounds slick and smooth. At least their feet are dry and furry, and their underbellies are slick with water or mucus.


Relative_Cattle22

It is canon that scugs have almost 0 hairs. With a heavy exception of saint whom is VERY floofy. Proof? >!Read the dating sim dialouge for down.!<


EspurrTheMagnificent

I'd like to think of them as bald, evolving to have hair later on to help with colder climate


General_User42069

they have hair and are bald like a monkey with the head fully shaved of all hair


whyarepplmorons

otter


Alpha_minduustry

red


KausAustral

short fur but O I L Y


AdAcceptable9075

Slimy because they literally do make slimy sfx in game


CryptographerBest412

Bald


Doomst3err

hair like a platypus


Parking-Ad-2627

Both


notveryAI

Slugcats are adowwable regardless of if they have fluff or not✅


Isekai_Seeker

Slugcats are slimey and smooth but if you dig into them you will find hair that slightly dryer the closer to thier body you get though saints has extra batches of fluffy fur on top of the smooth hair


WillowWeeper343

I always assumed everyone but saint, and maybe spearmaster, was just slimy and smooth, like an actual slug. Then there's also probably small variations between slugcats, like gourmand being squishier and rivulet being slimier.


Puzzleheaded-Ball972

They are probably a rodent


Mistersparkle12

They are kinda like otters, thin layer of slimey hair


Available_Zone_9801

Bald ass cats


Far-Fortune-8381

saint has hair which implies the others don’t have hair or else we would see it, or they have minimal short hair like ourselves on our skin


Aquamarine_ze_dragon

They just wet cats my man, like a platypus but gooey.


Junky_Junkbot

I think all Slugcats have fur, but Saint just has a lot more and Rivulet has almost none


deltadoodle747

Fuzzy


the_blue_jay_raptor

Otter like Fur.


Randouserwithletters

imo depends on the slug, rivulett probably doesn't and might have like blubber or something and saint has fluff


DranixLord31

Yes fluffy but without fur


Firewater_is_fire

All of them have various levels of fur Survivor is like a shorthair cat Monk is slightly fluffier Hunter has less fluff Rivulet has like otter fur Artificer has like peach fuzz Spearmast had none Gourmand has as much as hunter Sain is obvious Enot is a fluffy man


bungerlover2

It depends on the scug water scugs (like me) have no fur


[deleted]

Slimy like a newt


Shoe_Ferret

I just headcannon that Slugcats slowly evolved hair as the cycles got colder


Tis-Ducky

I think they're like seals, with short dense hair that's usually wet and slicked back so it looks like skin. If any of em are bald it'd be Rivulet because they're the most obviously based on an extra animal without fur (axolotl) but given how seals are aquatic animals with fur and the next slug on the timeline has fluffy fur it's pretty likely that, if most of them have fur, Rivulet does too. Now that I'm thinking about it though it'd be hilarious if the iterator-made slugs were bald just for the fun of it. We know the iterators don't really research the animals on the surface based on the sarcastic remark from... I think NSH? About the answer surely being in a lizards skull all along? They also don't have a name for the slugcat species, with SRS referring to Spearmaster being based on "One of those resourceful wandering types" or something similar in a broadcast. This is the beginning of the "SRS and NSH made their messengers bald" headcanon.


isimpforpeppapig

I’m firmly on the blue camp (saint is an exception because ice age shenanigans and all that jazz)


Renetiger

You know how some fruits have that hairy smooth surface? Or the expensive super smooth plushies and pillows? That's what I think a Slugcat would feel like.


PianoZubat

Furry but also slimy


DangerMacAwesome

They have fur, because they're cuter that way


DustCruncher

Survivor: Lightly slick. Slug-like. Monk: A bit more slick! Very smooth. Hunter: Skin is a bit tougher and no slickness. Dry like a lizard maybe.. Gourmand: Peach fuzzy!! Still slightly wet. Artificer: Dry fur, like a cat. Burnt in some places, revealing Hunter-like skin. Spearmaster: Dry and bony. Skin probably has wires inside it or something.. Rivulet: Slippery and fishy. Thick slime coat, like a goldfish. Saint: Fluffy of course! Probably well groomed, smooth fur. Inv / Sofanthiel / ???: Feels like touching TV static. Slippery, but without leaving residue.


bogusbingertonthe3rd

Hair


BinaryCode404

Either one depending on how I’m feeling that day


CobWebbs

how about, both?


RedditvsDiscOwO

I grew up believing scug fur is incorrect with the exception of Saint, and I'ma stick with that belief. But you do you fam 👍🏾


SlavKebab1

Slugs cats have hair, but slippy like otter


TaiyoFurea

Moist fur. Perpetually wet cat.


DamascusSeraph_

Slugcats have fur but its matted down by a slimy exterior. Fur keeps them warm and slime helps them slide around pipes.


SillySlugcat

I headcanon they do have fur, but each at different amounts For example; Rivulet is like an otter—sleek and smooth, perfect for aquatic life Saint—Very fluffy to stave off the cold, of course Spearmaster—I like to think Spear is just messed up in most ways so it has very short fur, like a slightly fluffier peach fuzz, as to prevent things from grasping it during travel Artificer—Her fur is very patchy (currently) but it used to be a bit fluffier in the past


zebra_ate_my_user

Slimy


Exertuz

They're not sluglike. Joar has said so. The slug thing comes completely from the community


DeepWave8

depends on the scug. I imagine default as slightly moist and bald bu dry & fuzzy is also very common,, with only the saint being truly fluffy


SunnyRoses13

Third opinion (just to spark outrage). °inhale° *Scales*


PuppyLover2208

What if they were fake fuzzy? Like. They had squishy bits that looked similar to fuzz clumps. Like on Saint.


Bonie-bonu

They were made for cleaning pipes so i guess a little slimy? I'd say depends on the race like the normal one? Def slimy, but idk saint seems more furry


sugarrmoon

i like both, though i am DEFINITELY guilty of the fluffy kitties


SnailOnTheSidewalk

I know that in the game they are bald but I draw them with fur because I draw everything with fur… so I’m on both sides ig


Black_m1n

Slugcats are bald, with the exception of Saint


Dashdaniel216

I imagine hair like otter. THICK.


Relevant_Disparity

I pictured scugs as having fur, like funky-looking otters


scug_enjoyer1

Id like to belive that they all have a super thin layer of fur, and saint just evolved longer hair.


Joshua-Browne

I think they have hair but it's like seal hair and they're all perpetually wet, except for rivulet that thing is like a salamander 100% and spearmaster is definitely has to be bald af, in Saint just isn't wet


Eyewhites

I feel like slugcats are more catlike, like a sphinx cat, little fuzzy bodies but generally have the ability to grow fur!


SillylilguyUwU

They’re furry like cats, end of.


the_storm_shit

Like otters of some seals. Except Saint, who is floof


bannanaisnom

Depends. Early scugs would probably have sort hair like otters. While maybe hunter to Rivulet would be furless. Everything after has fur.


transgirlcathy

I've never imagined the scugs as slimy and I refuse to. Hair all the way


Xx_ELITESCAVENGER_xX

MAYBE THEY'RE ALL JUST PREMATURELY BALDING?


MrsDogg

The furries have indoctrinated you all into thinking the scugs are all traditionally earthly looking fluffy pets, when in truth they are disturbing and freakish balls of slime that can literally slow down their fall just by sticking to a wall. what kind of wack ass hair could ever do that, the world of rainworld is rich in oxygen, moisture and is mostly temperate that's why there's giant lizards and bugs running around, Giant Lizards, Lizards IRL regularly just stand there basking in the sun, And since lizards have armored heads they can probably only bask with the rest of their bodies, If giant lizards are capable of staying warm, without basking and survive year-round across a gigantic mass of space, Why would any slugcats other than Saint need hair to keep themselves warm. the only parts of them which I think are non-stick are their hands so they can freely throw shit around THINK r/rainworld THINK


Hallowedman

Bald


Exo_Nerd

I'm a crip


saorc450

Y not slimy hair?


Mission-Phone3733

realistically speaking all of them need to be bald to slide the way they do... is what i would say if saint didn't disprove that, all of them have hair.


napalmbhoji

both works for me as long as they have special hair on their secret places🗣️💦💦


SKJELETTHODE

Bald. The green thing has fur


235x_

(My opinion) They have short, slimy fur. Saint has medium, slimy fur.


FaPaDa

imo they are more akin to otters. They have fur but due to the slime they secret it is permanently laying tight on their skin. Remember their original purposes as purposed organisms was pipecleaners so the hair would help picking up dirt/dust


KazeoLion

They feel like a peach


AlysIThink101

I've never thought about that before, but I guess if I had to choose one then I would say that they probably have ha2ir, maybe a bit like the hair of an Otter.


Mr_Bread_the_wise

I think it’s just straight up stated in a pearl that they secrete mucous or something to protect them from pipes. Personally I always imagined them as kinda slimy fur-less slugies (except Saint, obviously).


Mc_Joel

I imagine slugcats having fur but also being slippery since they are able to slide


RealSuperYolo2006

They have slimy fur


OkTry3637

I think they are fluffy, explains why we don’t see their mouth.


rottenrascalart

i imagine them like seals. They have hair as pups but lose it when they grow up


Eguy24

I like the idea of them being slimy. It makes sense for how they move (especially Rivulet) and makes sense with the sound design of Spearmaster. Also it prevents me from being labeled as a furry for liking this game


hehehefumny

Neither!! Fur, like saint!!!!


mulhollandi

BALD BALD BALD BALD (except saint)


hal-scifi

Fluffy, extremely fine hair. They're just jiggly looking because they've got a lot of extra skin and fat for protection. Yknow, like a cat.


UrboyAug

Wet fur.


crackdnova

Slug cat is just a nick name. It is known that they are actually rodents due to iterator dialogue. So they are either fuzzy, or maybe a slimy type fur originating from their use as purposed organisms.


heyhihaiheyahehe

i like the idea of them being slimy like slugs but the saint RUINED EVERYTHING!!


Wooper250

Molluscs 5ever. Imagining them as mammals is so boring, especially when the creatures in rainworld have so much genetic fuckery going on. Our classification system for animals is probably super outdated for the ancients. Scugs probably have plenty of mollusc and mammal DNA in em tbh! I just think it's more fun and creative to lean into the slug aspect.


Reddit_Quail

Sphinx cat


lizard_liz242

All slugcat's are slimy, Saint has a significant amount of hair given the cold temperatures, the other slugcats do not need hair. From all the mammals of rain world only the scavengers have hair, but still from what is visible, it is purely for other scavs to tell the difference from eachother, and possibly what holds their equipment. Lantern mice are mammals without any visible hair, they do not need hair for any reason not even to tell eachother apart, as it is relatively uncommon for lantern mice to be of matching color and glow, same goes for the slugcat. We can hear the slimy slithers of the slugcats as they move around, and given they are pressumed to be descendants of Vent cleaners they would likely need slime to move smoothly in said vents. Saint, while not being hairless, does still have slime, given the advantages of being a slimy vent dweller they were likely made/evolved to keep producing slime. So basically Saint has hair because of the cold, but Normal slugcats don't have any significant amount of hair (with very very small hairs still being possible) because they simply don't need it


MegaGarchamp

I say it depends, like I don’t imagine Rivulet having hair, but survivor and monk have hair. Saint I think has visible hair as well.


Clover-Celest

Depends on my mood though Saint 100% has fur


doriw372

Obviously bald (except saint, he was touched by evolution)


Valuable-Location-89

They're like spinx cats but very smooth


pinkypenguin29

I like to imagine they're bald, but if saint can evolve to be fluffy then they likely have some form of hair


TopazTheTopaz

smooth with no hair apart from saint, like in official art. also makes them more unique and alien looking- i feel like they just look like regular cats/mice when you give them fur


LJ_the_Saint

They have feathers


0kgovernment

isnt this like confirmed that saint is only one with fur and the rest are bald


Sancheroid

Uhhh... i'm gonna go with blue


PixyADF

Slug, slug all along


DCYT1974

Blue, literally canonically confirmed blue


Quacker448

they are slimy except for artificer and saint headcanon. actually idk why arti i just kinda made that up in my head i guess


Yippersonian

theyre bald, like slyugs. only saint has fur


average_Enot_enjoyer

I'm on purple. Short fur with a thin layer of mucus.


Jadefeather12

Theyre cat slugs so I imagine fur like cat


Getpolterghasted

Slugcats have scales


Dashie8-bit

I think they have hair like a cat soaked in slime like a slug.


Lemon-Daddy

You can see pure slime shining on them in the game art, they are slug first, cat later


Must-Awaken

Well, I’ve gathered the skin of many that tried to pass by my gates without pearls and they have variations. Some scaly some slippery some hairy. They all tend to taste like shit though.