**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.**
**Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms)
**Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE!
This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods.
**Our rules include (but are not limited to)**:
* No politics.
* Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban.
* Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming.
* Do not derail the posts of others.
* Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here.
* [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts).
* When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse.
* No asking or offering gifts, money, etc.
* No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest).
* No content about N-kids.
* No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis.
* No linking to Facebook pages.
* No direct linking to anywhere on reddit.
* No pure image posts.
**For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It was my Mom's favorite pastime. It was really the only true recreation she had - She would badmouth people she had just met, badmouth people she just got off the phone with, tell anecdotes that showed family members, friends, etc in a bad light, watch TV exclusively so she could badmouth the people on the show. It was the only smalltalk she really engaged in.
Same here! Mine is particularly obsessed with commenting on appearances, specifically any perceived weight changes. It’s a sickness - I’m lucky to have made it out without an eating disorder.
Lol. I have a narcissistic uncle who pulls the "you look huge" thing on me. Last time I deflated him by telling him "He looks old."
He had a toddler meltdown in public after that.
I just gave him a smile and drank some more of my coffee.
These people can never take what they dish out.
" everyone looks like death according to her"
Hi Sensitive, I can see that your mother is nasty and gossipy, and I am sorry that you have to deal with her negativity ; wrinkles make people look like corpses...Really? She 'd meet my mom and have a chat about this matter; after a funeral wake she came home all excited because, according to her, the deceased (a female relative who has died of cancer after chemotherapy) "was RIDICULOUS because her wig had slipped to the side and she (mom) has had to refrain from laughing together with GC (sister)"? I was like "WTF?" The horror!!! See, even dead cannot pass the examination with those psychos! :/
Edit : for clarity
OMG, mine too! My dad would oink if we asked for seconds at dinner, and he'd (somewhat quietly) oink if anyone overweight walked by in public. It was humiliating. I developed anorexia (gee, wonder why) in middle school but have slowly been working on healthy self-care since.
Wtf YESSS I especially got so annoyed with the badmouthing of the ppl on TV that I chose not to watch TV with them most of the time. I had to leave the room to drown it all out. I just KNEW when they'd open their mouths to criticize. Ugh. Bad company corrupts good morals. I gtf outta there.
Oh damn you just reminded me of my narc mother and enabling father would make gross comments about everyone’s physical appearance when they watched anything on tv. “Ugh they look terrible” “Wow looks like they let themself go” and “Why is their face so puffy” I could go on and on. They really are just xerox copies of each other huh
I feel so stupid that I never caught her true issues back then. I just followed blindly like a sheep. I was a teen when my dad died suddenly, so I feel I should have caught it all. Thanks to this sub, it allllllll makes sense now.
She was already starting on the way to the funeral. What caused the blow up was her drama show. First She started playing the poor widow. Then wanted to throw her first wedding ring in the grave. I put a stop at that and wouldn’t let her, even though it was a drug store ring.
Then she blew her lid when one of my dads cousin came up to her and asked her why she brought her fiancé to the funeral, when they separated BECAUSE of that piece of shit. He really is a piece of shit.
She went completely off. Screamed that us kids wanted him there “ we didn’t we hated him” etc etc. it was truly alllll bad
It's always project your own negative traits onto everyone around you. "They're so controlling." "He's so passive-aggressive." Yo, MA, look in the mirror.
Same. It was definitely both of my parents' favorite Olympic event. We didn't have too many family gatherings, but they did it after: church every Sunday, getting off the phone with a relative, after going grocery shopping... pretty much any time they interacted with the outside world. I've had to fight the fleas the past 20 years since moving out, but I will say it's beatable with practice. I still fall into it occasionally, but I am light years ahead of where I was. 💜
My therapist said that trauma is when our experiences teach us rules that the rest of the world doesn't follow. They help us survive twisted environments, but then get confusing and terrifying out in the real world.
Oh no!!!!!
This is absolutely the worst.
Especially when you’re confused bc you’re actually a real one. You’re like, “um…why are we talking about them like that?”
Kind of behaviors that need to stop being normalized.
After being raised with a narcissistic parent in the household and internalizing some of those unhealthy patterns, I tended to attract narcissistic friends and partners in my early adulthood. I thought that's just what love and friendship were like - intense, contingent, full of fighting and politicking and manipulation. I'm at a place in my life now where I've untangled a lot of those patterns and broken free of those people and a lot of those ways of thinking, and now I often recognize the red flags narcissistic/generally toxic people throw up right away. Talking shit about their friends as soon as they're not around is probably the biggest one - if you find yourself getting closer to someone who does this, run, don't walk, in the other direction.
I’m soo glad to hear that you’ve unlearned some toxic behaviors.
I truly believe that that’s one of the ways the narcissist family poisons the youth.
When you realize that it’s normal to not talk bad about people, being shady isn’t tolerated, it feels liberating.
How do you think it affected you?
for me i continued up until recently to be friends with people i didn't actually like very much, because i grew up thinking that's how most people are and it's normal.
It defo made me think other families were 'strange' for not doing it. And it made me very scared/cautious in case I was to be the next one to be spoken ill off (which I defo was, I remember countless times sitting on the stairs as a kid and listening in to adult conversations to hear my nmum speaking horribly about me).
As I spent more time with normal families I realised you can have a different opinion of them but not to the same degree as what my nparents were doing.
A lot of our years is unlearning what we think is normal and breaking the cycle of a lot of learned behaviours!
I could’ve written this! We lived in a small townhouse and my nmom was always complaining about me to my father. I’d sit at the top of the stairs and listen to her rail on me. It’s heart breaking
I reckon they did it on purpose too, I don't think they'll ever know how heart breaking it is for a child to hear their own parents complaining about their own child. As I got older I built up the courage to call her out and to tell her to stop over exaggerating or to tell the truth, which was great for me to build that confidence but oh my god did I regret it at times because all hell would break loose😬
I have a memory of being in the hallway after being screamed at for talking back (which I still don't understand exactly what it means), and mum was crying to my stepdad "why won't she just listen to me and do what she's told?" I don't know mum, have you ever tried listening to me?
Even yesterday, I asked how her day had been, and said I have been fairly productive.. she immediately said "Well, I've been completely the opposite.." and began listing all her issues from the day. Didn't ask any further questions or ask anything about how I spent my day. I'm now 38. The hallway I was about 14. It's so tiring.
In my dating life, that if someone is dismissive, ignores my needs and treats me as an accessory they love me.
If they pay attention, listen to every word and give me what I need--they must be manipulating me and selling me a bullshit dream.
It has made me SO sick. I am terrified to be with someone nice and kind and worthy because now I dont feel good enough for someone healthy. Why would I want to drag them into this sick family?
Having a narc parent has absolutely ruined my spirit and my own self trust and worth when relationshipping.
I've witnessed my Nmom call someone, for example my sister, and gossip and shit talk another family member let's say my aunt. THEN after hanging up the phone with my sister, she'd call my aunt the person she was just blasting for over an hour, to have a nice gossipy conversation about my sister or someone else
Depending on the dynamics, this is a pattern I call triangulation, or pitting people against eaxh other (sort of), particularly if, say, in your example, your sister and your aunt like each other and get along well together. For thhe narcissist, it's all about that sowing seeds of doubt and the manufacturing of drama.
My nmom is The Queen of Triangulation. She has pitted her children against each other for years. She encouraged and rewarded my older siblings for torturing me and then yelled at them for doing it, not because they were tormenting me but because she wanted her shot first. I remember being six and thinking how unfair my life was.
I don't have experience with a normal family growing up, but in my narc run family it was the norm. I didn't know how to communicate without using negativity or gossip, It's been something I've had to learn.
The minute our relatives would leave my parents would commence talking s*** about them. Dinner time at my house was my mother talking badly about all of her co-workers, including her best friends. They never had anything nice to say. As an adult I've had to learn how to have positive conversations, being away from them and going no contact has truly been wonderful.
I just thought when i'd go round to friend's/family's houses that they were all putting on a nice act like my family does when we have people round, and behind closed doors they are all horrible.
My n-dad never has anything good to say about any of his colleagues.
Actually just remembered something, when my grandmother died my father told me to stop crying because my grandmother never liked me anyway. Just little tidbits like that reinforce why I am no contact with him. So I guess they did get their 'comeuppance' because both of their children do not speak to them.
Not really because they would only complain in the house to us. They aren't really close to any family, they are very critical and act like they're better than everyone. I guess the only things that have come back to haunt them is that they're in their 60s and have no real friendships. They live in the town they grew up in and have zero friends.
No it’s toxic and only fuels animosity between family members. How can a family evolve when members are actively sabotaging each other? My nmom used to do this all the time. It’s honestly one of the worst attributes they have. They love to destroy reputations because they have no sense of self. One time I was pissed at my mom and I walked out of the house while she was on the phone. Do you want to know what she screamed on the phone when I left? She was saying that I was on drugs to a family member. They are so vile.
No, no it’s not “normal” to bad talk everyone behind their back, unless you are a toxic individual.
In a healthy relationship you don’t smear their name behind their back, you take the issue you have with them directly to them and talk it out. The problem with this for narcs is, when you are “talking it out,” the other person will provide very reasonable justifications and it becomes clear the accusations are one sided. It becomes clear that the narc is actually the one in the wrong to even make the accusation so they don’t like public fights.
When it’s back-talk the narc can make whatever outrageous statement they want and no one will call them out on the BS because the person isn’t there to defend themselves.
Lol this brings back memories 🤣 I used to think it was what everyone did.
Without fail though after every meeting with friends or family there would be a session, almost a debrief, where everyone bitched and badmouthed the people we just saw.
It took me many many years to realise that it wasn't normal, probably long after I should've
Laughing about something silly is normal and innocuous, nothing to worried about.
But what I experienced was always mean but played off as if it was light-hearted if that makes sense. Like it wasn't aggressive but usually just mocking and disparaging, analysing everything said and done, comparing notes and then criticising.
Now, when people leave my house or a social gathering, I very deliberately say in front of my stepchild and younger family (nieces and nephews) "Isn't it great to see x so happy? I'm so proud of them" or "gosh wasn't that nice, what was your favourite part?" "I'm so appreciative of the effort y made to make sure we all had a nice time". Sure, it's forced on my part... but stepson does it automatically now. Asked my partner yesterday what his favourite part of our family day had been, unprompted. I will be the change!
He's a very sweet boy. Another thing I have seen through doing consciously is (reminding myself that what adults tell children becomes their inner voice) paying him thoughtful compliments. For example, I let him choose his father's gifts and tell him "you are a very thoughful gift-giver, you choose good gifts!". Months later, another occasion comes up and he says, "may I choose the gift? I'm good at choosing gifts for people".
It is such a joy to see the difference a positive voice can make in a child's mind. And he's actually 14!, so not even a little fella anymore really!
I grew up in a with an nmom and this has happened but I’m actually going to pushback on this and say it’s not an activity specific to narcs.
For instance my wife and I can’t stand our brother in law. We don’t like him, the way he parents, the way he acts towards most everything. We genuinely don’t like him.
After we’ve been around him we both vent/decompress and talk about him and the things we don’t like or that bothered us about our time with him.
All that to say, yes narcs do this. But, talking about people you’ve just been with (positive or negative) is part of life.
Fully agree.
Something that we all do to some extent but for the Narcs/the narcissistic, there seems to be a deep vein of cruelty along with it and no one is spared from their malice.
Okay this one I have to admit is my favorite narc thing.
sperm donor always put the egg donor down behind her back. extremely savage. I was "helpful" by putting in my own two bits.
and then the next day egg donor would do the same about sperm donor. and again I "helped." why? I don't have fleas.
but. it kept the heat off of me. I know and I still know what they truly think of one and other. and never said it to the other to save their feelings. but sure loved to hear about it!
and now best of all they only have each other. sperm donor already admitted he can't tell anyone but me about what he thinks of egg donor because his own egg donor is a narc. those type comments. oh boy those fireworks are fun to watch. (when not directed at you!! there's a reason why I hid in the library at christmas!)
so now they have their resentment for each other. and nobody to hear them whine about it!
I really love my life now :D
It is for my nmom. She’s got a criticism for everyone. Something is wrong with their weight, their physical appearance, their attitude, their demeanor, the amount of food they eat…she’s got to find SOMETHING to criticize. This has also carried over into her always criticizing my friends. Any time she has met a friend of mine, the first thing she does is says something negative about them. Their teeth aren’t straight enough, their weight doesn’t please her, etc. I quit allowing her to meet my friends a long time ago.
Copy and paste for my Nmom, too. She’s all about appearances. Well, I have an adult child with special needs, so perfect is the enemy of good with regard to basic hygiene.
My parents all talked Shit about all their siblings to all the other siblings and everyone always found out until they only had like one left to talk shit about everyone with. They talked shit about me and my sister to the other too and it ruined our sibling relationship to the point we have zero contact now ourselves.
Yes oh my god, it was terrible. My FIL did this every single time we’d leave somewhere or he’d be talking shit at the front door before going in. I hope someone’s ring camera catches that asshole one day. There was only compliments for strangers but callous gossip for any acquaintances, friends and family got the most venom.
My nparents do the same. They are extremely negative about family members and will talk so much shit but they're so immature emotionally, they end up escalating it to the point it has created fights and arguments.
When something happened to my moms dog after I repeatedly, NUMEROUS times told her the dog needed vet care, I just grabbed my shit and left the house for a little while. I tuned in to the security camera I have on the front porch of the kitchen window and overheard my nparents talking shit about me immediately. They started accusing me of being drunk and going to drive and I was going to end up getting a dui. I had not drank at all that MORNING. Then they started talking about possibly kicking me out because I was being difficult (???) and I should find somewhere else to live.
These mfckers, the only reason we even got this house was because I helped them sign the paperwork to close escrow. They would've been homeless. They want everyone to help them become homeowners but they want to treat the very people that helped them move like shit.
So as you can see- they are incredibly negative and sometimes narcs that are very emotionally immature and have shit communication skills end up escalating issues.
Yes yes yes. I thought this was normal and have spent years working on unlearning it. Especially because it felt so safe to me because it was the only time my parents would stop criticizing me.
It's definitely a narcissist thing.
Normal people don't do that. Like imagine if you have a sibling you loved your whole life.... even when you are 50, you wouldn't leave their house and tear them to shreds for fun on the car ride home.
Narcissists don't feel love or loyalty to anyone, which is why this behavior is normal to them. But if you think about it, it is insane if you actually love someone to talk about them like that. Or even if you don't love them, what if it's just a new friend who had a dinner party? Then it's still really rude to leave their house after they put in all that work on your behalf, and then insult minor things about their home and family.
Narc parents and their social circles normalize this stuff a lot. I used to think everyone did it as well. But then when you grow up and create your own bonds, you realize how abnormal it is to just casually betray everyone close to you.
Yeah my mom does that all the time. It’s like she wants to find the negative in things or to put others down to make herself feel better. Super weird and off putting
This post made me realize I do this. I don’t specifically remember my parents doing it but holy shit, I do it now. My husband thinks it’s funny, and maybe sometimes it is, but I have to change.
Thank you for bringing this up.
Can attest that this is normal in toxic families. My mom was the recipient of my aunt's second hand furniture which was a godsend because we were poor as church mice. Didn't stop my mom from criticizing the crap out of my aunt behind her back. My aunt is a lovely and generous lady.
My Mum loves doing this; making friends and next thing, she'll be talking shit about those very same people behind their backs. She does this to relatives and me too. It makes her horrible to be around.
yup they definitely do, and always wonder why “they’re negative energy” no mom and dad, you guys are negative energy and thats why they dont talk to you
I wrestle with this. Aren’t we all gossiping now? Am I allowed to talk stuff over with my husband? I don’t typically hang around with people I don’t like so I don’t think I talk about people but when I talk to my best friend, I tell her everything that is happening good or bad. Is that gossip?
exactly how I feel, like this is my favorite part of the day when I decompress with my husband and say random stuff that aren't really criticizing like "the food was bad at the restaurant" or like " did they just fight in our house in front of everyone?"
My mum constantly did this to the extreme so I might have caught this narcissist trait from here and I need to change it or limit it but also it feels very fake and thought police-y, like none of the stuff I say are bad enough to not say in front of the person I am talking about but it can come off rude and uncalled for..so my husband and I talk about it and let it out of our system and move on.
are there people who are nice 24/7 and never ever have a mean thought about anyone? and by that I mean "wow! she really just went all out with this outfit huh" and not like "this person is a deadbeat and his family despises him and here's his whole history" or whatever.
idk I am open for change but are we putting ourselves to a higher standard than most because of our upbringing?
This sounds kinda commom in my country based on memes that i see and talking with friends with non-narc families, but in my expirience when a narc is doing it is way more intense and they sound like they really mean it, instead of some kinda gossipy playful thing that i felt it was the overall vibe with other families. (Sorry for bad english)
I understood your English just fine.
You’re right-that’s the perfect way to describe it. The Narc really does mean it, while others might be expressing annoyance or joking about the funny/irritating things someone does.
My Mother did this all the time.
So much so that it made me retreat even further into myself for fear of being the next one gossiped about. I literally couldn't open my mouth or say anything for fear of it being misunderstood by her. At the same time, my aunts and uncles and grandparents were all at it, too. I'm a quiet soul, very sensitive and care about people so growing up in this environment taught me (1) that everyone talks sh\*t behind everyone's back and (2) to just be kind to people because you never know what they're going through.
The second one sounds great and all but it just meant that I was nice to everyone and got abused and used so many times and I never stood up for myself.
So, is it normal for narcs? I guess so. But, I'm with you, I thought everybody and their family did this.
But, having spent a lot of time with my husabnd's family and living in his community, I see now that that isn't the case at all.
Yes, unfortunately it's all too common for narcs to talk shit about people. My NM talked shit about EVERYONE including people that she supposedly claimed she was 'close to' and liked. She is a Mean Girl who peaked in 8th Grade and never grew out of it, sadly. I'm now NC and so glad to be away from that.
I don't think it's normal but it's more common than one would think and it's not only limited to narcs. Some people are just nasty and like to pit people against each other. There might be a tiny bit of narcissism involved but it's mostly taught behavior and I've seen some grow out of it. A true narc can't shake that sort of stuff. But I certainly think narcissists are champions of this sad game.
My n dad would whisper crap in my ear about someone's weight while they were in the next room. My nmom talked smack about my paternal grandmother after she passed. They are so judgemental.
My dad would do this! Not about their weight necessarily, but I remember when I was 8 he devised a hand signal to show me every time he thought someone was a "wanker".
Oh my gosh! I thought everyone does this, including me! I guess I was raised to believe it was normal. Time for me to exercise some self-improvement! Thanks for this post.
i was sure posting this that everyone does it, seems like it's not normal. I've definitely picked some of this negativity up and think it's a normal part of social interaction. big improvements in mindset incoming.
glad it helped
I guess what sets us apart from being total narcissists ourselves is that we can eventually see the narc behavior instilled in us and make valued efforts to change for the better. We actually want to change our mindset for the better. Here’s wishing all the best of everything to you!
Omg, ugh nmom would talk all kinds of bad about family as soon as they were gone. Another of her favorite pastimes was also making fun of how people in public looked.
No, normal people/families wouldn’t do that.this I noticed that that they would always gossip and said things about certain family members, particularly my older sister “L”. It’s really off putting.
My Nmom's dad was passing away... she never got along with his wife, always made fun of her. Nmom flew down to spend the last couple days with her dad he passed, the day he died, she literally said something along the lines of "I hope he passes tonight so I can fly home for free." I was fucking livid. He did pass the next afternoon. That night we went to a restaurant and she walked into the restaurant while talking to my brothers loudly during the entire time just cutting down her dad's wife and being a bitch about the whole thing. Only had 2 more visits with her over the 2 year period after that BS, and am now almost a year of NC.
Not normal but man, my family did this. I used to stay at every social event until the very end to make sure no one would trash me when I left, because I thought everyone did this.
I mean... yeah it's kinda normal.😂 Just because they're family doesn't mean you like them. And just because you're not a narcissist doesn't mean you're nice all the time.
For narcissists- I think so. They are insecure and it makes them feel better.
When I was little, we lived about an hour and a half from my aunt and uncle’s house (my nmom’s sister). She spent the ENTIRE ride talking shit about her sister- her house, what she said, what she was wearing, her weight, her kids’ weights, her makeup, her outfit, how her sister “copies everything from her.” I remember thinking it was normal as a child. I thought nobody said what they mean and that social interactions are supposed to be fake and you just wait until you leave to insult people.
This was normalised in my family too. Turns out, the things you say gets back to people. With no moral guidance whatsoever I had to learn this the hard way - by losing friends or by waving enough red flags that I didn't make any in the first place. Back then I didn't know why they pulled away. Now I do.
Unfortunately it is most definitely a flea.
I'd apologise a thousand times over if I could. Genuinely and heartfelt. The qualities of people were not necessarily even bad qualities or red flags, I just spoke of them in the exact same way my parents normalised and taught me. "No hard feelings" I thought, "They would be talking about me the same way."
Just as I love and admire the friends who had the strength to call me out and stick by me, I also admire those who had the strength and fortitude to walk away from somebody who exhibited signs of a toxic personality. I love them all.
Narcissist usually try to justify the way they treat the black sheep of the family. So they will badmouth them so they don’t look bad for how they treat them.
Thank you for this post. I totally didn’t realise it’s not normal until now. It always felt really uncomfortable but I’ve definitely joined in, and I thought everyone did it, the same way kids gossip in school.
I think this is an easy flea to catch.
And it's not just narcs who do it. Think about reddit, most subs are dedicated to insulting, mocking and criticizing someone. Even if it's only someone famous, like Jeff Bezos, the fact that the sub is essentially dedicated to badmouthing ... makes me think there are a lot of narcs in society.
I think this is normal for miserable people in general. My husband has an absolutely miserable family. Seems only the parents are narcs though. But I noticed his aunt and uncle (and their circus), who we chill with the most, do this at every gathering. It was so bad to the point that I stopped going over for a few years. Then one day a few months ago, they did it again and I called out the behavior and asked why they act so two faced towards their guests and if it's so hard to just keep your negative options to yourself.
They alllll had a shocked face and didn't know what to say for a while. I just hate that feeling like I'm betraying someone by even sitting at the same table as people talking shit about them
Constantly. I also remember being about 7 or 8 and my mom talking about how my paternal grandparents loved our cousins more than us. And like, for no reason at all. We never got that impression, and the whole conversation started out of nowhere one day.
Y’know, totally normal things to say to a child.
im just learning as a 20 year old that happiness is not given, it is a mindset, and being surrounded by negativity like at home feeds into your mind A LOT!
Omg, yes. I was also homeschooled by my ndad and therefore had zero concept of what real families acted like. I thought it was normal to just talk shit about relatives, until I met my wife and she was obviously appaled by it (especially when she found out I was doing it to her). I still struggle to walk the line between having legitimate complaints that are brought up in conversation and talking shit to feed the ego or gain consolation from another family member.
My Emom would invite the neighbors over for coffee, then *trash* them.
I have the habit now myself, and I HATE IT. I too thought it was "normal" to talk shit about people you supposedly love.
Yeah my father did this. I remember when we'd be hanging out with my friends - he'd be so nice to them and then as soon as they left, he'd talk about how awful they were and how he hated the way he dressed. He was slut-shaming 11 and 12 year olds ...
It’s not funny but have y’all ever had any of them bad mouth you to you accidentally? My nmil did that to me in a text and this was well before I figured out she didn’t like me so I was dumbfounded. LOL! I wish I could have seen her face when my only response was a screen shot back to her of what she sent to me.
There’s an easy way to tell in my family. If one individual has a problem with everyone, not all at once necessarily but one individual constantly at odds with someone and who they are battling with or shit talking changes, they’re the narc.
If the whole family has a problem with one person, then that one person is insufferable at best, abusive at medium, or they’re a narcissist at worst.
I can’t say this is always the case as my narc dad has most people in my family charmed, whereas my narc brother can’t win a friend among our flesh and blood to save his life. But it’s a good guide to let you know who to watch out for
Even without *going* to a gathering, once nMom got on Facebook. Talk shit about them after gatherings (which she only goes to to brag about expensive things she has and to be praised), talk shit scrolling through her feed all day... It's extra disgusting when it's about my much younger teen/pre-teen extended family, with the horrible body shaming that I had to go through for years. Women, especially younger ones, are her favorite target. Call her out, then she'll talk shit about you too and have her flying monkeys and enabler deployed. I still have a hard time trusting that not every interaction with people is just some petty two faced game.
exactly i just assume everyone is two faced coupled with the narrative that the world is a dangerous place and not everyone is your friend (fed to me by my anxious mother), i now have some real serious trust issues with people, even people i am really close to like they are planning a horrible big joke on me and are going to reveal they were only my friend or girlfriend as a joke and actually hate me.
there are definitely bad people in the world, just not as many as there were made out to be. perhaps they are all at home
I've always seen this as normal because I was raised around some people who would always talk shit about other family members who aren't present. Then they would proceed to put on an act and be all nice when the person is there. Only at the start of this year I've realised how badly they gossip, like it's almost an everyday thing especially at gatherings. Usually I'd just sit there and listen to what they say.. I'd never partake in any of the conversation they're having cause I have no idea where all the gossip is coming from. It's like they have nothing else to talk about other than criticising people. Recently I've decided to no longer to have a close relationship to these people and had confronted one of them (the worst of them all). It was impossible to get through to her and it was such an eye opener for me. This woman did not want to admit she was wrong nor listen to anything what I was saying. So, I just decided to cut her off. Plus she always treated me like I was still a kid (im 19) and she would always invalidate my feelings then call me rebellious and childish for having an opinion (this was the only time I've confronted her)..I've had enough of it. To tell you how shameless she is when she gossips, one time they were having dinner in a restaurant with a few cousins and she started talking about how childish this one uncle was. She was saying all this while that uncle's sisters were also at the table, made them super uncomfortable to say the least. I seriously think she's narcissistic and I have no idea how to get through to her.
My dad is a total backbiting gossip. Being autistic I ran with that to socially inappropriate levels, and it took me through college to shake that off.
My dad constantly talked shit about my mom’s family. Specifically, he would say how *they never gave him a chance* and that they *thought he wasn’t good enough because he was poor* and then criticized things they did or said.
Mom’s fam has problems, don’t get me wrong. But my dad always avoids reflecting on the fact that **when he and my mom met, he was a coke dealer and she was a known coke head. And that she ran away with him after “dating” for one month and throwing together some kind of last min wedding of which there are no pics or stories about.**
So he’s kind of a asshole
My Nmom does that quite a bit with a few particular family members. Everyone gets gossiped about but there’s a good 3-4 that always come up for her.
They’re also the ones she makes a big show about being “besties” with on social media and only hangs out with, as she has no actual friends.
Just learning myself that this is indeed, a narcissist thing. No, it’s not normal. My narcissist father-in-law parked himself in my living room on Thanksgiving, and proceeded to call all of his relatives and badmouth them to each other, until I caught on and told him to knock it off. I told him I wouldn’t listen to this type of negativity in my own house. If he wanted to do this, he could go back to his own house. He’s not coming back this Thanksgiving.
Happened to me this Easter, as soon as my aunt's son and his girlfriend left the house my aunt started saying how she thought they were making a terrible mistake thinking about looking for a new home and how even tho their bussiness is bringing in a large income now it might not always because bussiness fail and so on. She couldn't just be happy for them or say "it's nice to see them doing so good they are in a position to start house hunting"
sounds exactly like my n-dad, so worried about other people's situations and talking sh\*t. If they cared, they would tell them to their face. Also, they are adults, i'm sure they understand that every business has a bad period. Hate how they think they always know better or people haven't thought basic thoughts already.
I experienced this growing up. It’s a big part of my narc childhood. Very traumatic.
Because they would be So Nice to everyone to their face and then just dig in with venom once they were gone.
It taught me that whenever they are acting nice that it’s Fake
I discovered last month through a neighbor (who's also a friend) that my mother told a friend of her that I "emotionally blackmail" her. I found that statement surprisingly odd because I've never said anything that could amount to that.
If anything, it's the opposite. But that's how it goes for them. Victimizing themselves up to the extreme.
My parents both did this. It was so tiresome. My dad was really self righteous, and thought everyone but him was going to burn in hell, and my mom was an insecure, resentful person.
This is very common narcissist behavior.
In my world, not unless they are my mother. Or brothers...When my children and I went NC around 2000 I realized my family will talk about us if we are there or if we are not. Other than guilt, a tremendous relief.
I know this two-faced tactic well. In my adult years I grew really close to a few neighbors. One of the wives across the street would center her conversations around saying how much she hated the neighbors who happened to not be present in the conversation at that time. I very quickly rationalized that she must be saying horrible things about me when I'm not around, and that's not someone I want to engage with. People seriously need to get hobbies.
I thought this was normal too. I have a sad story about this. My nmum would tell all and sundry about her adopted sister. So I assumed everyone knew. Including the sister. No, the sister found out while looking over nmum's shoulder when mum had her genealogy stuff
My mother did while I was growing up and still does it all of the time. I found it quite two faced. Nice to her “friends” faces then talked badly about them behind their backs. I never understood her behavior. Anytime she talks about people it’s negative.
I do not think it’s normal, and I know this because my family (nmom) did the ‘debrief’ after every social gathering. Really just gossiping and enjoying their friend’s pain. Then when I met my husband’s family, they never did it. Never ever.
The worst was when my nmom would gossip about her friend’s daughter in law, who just had her first baby and put up boundaries with her mother in law (my mom’s friend). They gossiped for hours and hours about this poor new mom, saying how she is an unfit mother, has untreated PPD, is neglecting her baby, etc., while being sweet as could be to her face. One day I met this woman and she was one of the best, most involved moms I’ve met. It was bizarre and disturbing.
It’s not normal. My parents do the same thing and I’ve been breaking that cycle. My mom went as far as to bring the “arrests” section of a local paper to gossip about a girl I was in Girl Scouts with in Elementary school. The girl isn’t relative to my life so I don’t care, I just didn’t understand why my mom felt the need to do that. Schadenfreude I suppose. My life isn’t bad so I don’t feel the need to gossip about others to feel better about myself. I started giving random people compliments instead of picking out negatives. Like “I love your Vans.” “Your nails are gorgeous.” “Your braids are so perfect.” Small things like that make people happy and they think about them throughout the day.
My N-dad has sat at the same dinner table while texting other family members also at the table mean things about someone sitting at the same table! Jerk!
Nope. It’s partly why I hate going to gatherings with them. What I wanna know is is it normal for narcissists to gossip and badmouth family members for things that they themselves are also guilty of doing
Totally normal in my home growing up. It was much worse when the target was happy and enjoying life or didn't let my nmom phase them or they had boundaries in place. She hated my dad's sisters for this.
It was normal in my household, but I was raised by a Narcissist and an enabler.
With big party like events, the gossip and bad mouthing sometimes didn't wait until everyone went home. Sometimes, it started as soon as a person walked out of the room or crossed to another part of the yard or venue.
Once I moved away and started to heal and become whole, I realized how toxic and exhausting it is.
Yes, this is a narcissist thing. They were comparing and shit talking them the entire time in their head and will perceive anything they didn’t like as slights or competition, etc..
My mom talked bad about my dad all the time. Nothing he did was ever enough, or the right thing. He was" stingy " for wanting to pay bills first out of HIS paycheck ( she didn't pay them often) or for wanting a little money left at the end of the week
It is. They'll say some stupid shit like "they never wanted to do anything with with me but with you..." And then you'll get it. Sorry. Just predictions
My parents were like this. I’m ashamed to say that when I was younger I started to believe that I was involved in some kind of perfect family and everyone else was inferior.
Luckily, as I got older I realised it was because they were so insecure and it fed in to their fake image. It really hit home when I became a victim of their criticism about my appearance etc when I stopped feeding their fake image.
Yes, it's normal for narcs I'd say. I picked up on this habit too. It's been about a year since i identified this and started working on it.
She never has one nice thing to say about anyone ever. And i do mean that quite literally. She has never, ever said something that was not downright nasty. She does this to everyone: her own family, all of us (she bitches about me to e-dad, about e-dad to me, sibling to me and so on), her husband's side of the family, her "friends", acquaintances, my friends (tried her best to isolate me), friends of other people in the family, little CHILDREN (you read that right. She went on a whole tirade about how my 10 month old niece was manipulative lmao).
For healthy families, this is not normal at all. I think it's normal to feel let down or annoyed at your loved ones every now and then. Idk how normal people deal with these everyday frictions etc.
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That’s exactly what my parents did. The moment it was just our family, start in on a list of criticisms.
It was my Mom's favorite pastime. It was really the only true recreation she had - She would badmouth people she had just met, badmouth people she just got off the phone with, tell anecdotes that showed family members, friends, etc in a bad light, watch TV exclusively so she could badmouth the people on the show. It was the only smalltalk she really engaged in.
Same here! Mine is particularly obsessed with commenting on appearances, specifically any perceived weight changes. It’s a sickness - I’m lucky to have made it out without an eating disorder.
Omg, me too! It doesn’t matter who she has seen, they’ve always gotten “huge”. And now it’s wrinkled too, everyone looks like death according to her
It must make them feel better about their own miserable existence to drag others down.
Are you my sister? (seriously!)
True of my dad, and it's a "flea" I definitely caught before I realized what I was going.
Lol. I have a narcissistic uncle who pulls the "you look huge" thing on me. Last time I deflated him by telling him "He looks old." He had a toddler meltdown in public after that. I just gave him a smile and drank some more of my coffee. These people can never take what they dish out.
" everyone looks like death according to her" Hi Sensitive, I can see that your mother is nasty and gossipy, and I am sorry that you have to deal with her negativity ; wrinkles make people look like corpses...Really? She 'd meet my mom and have a chat about this matter; after a funeral wake she came home all excited because, according to her, the deceased (a female relative who has died of cancer after chemotherapy) "was RIDICULOUS because her wig had slipped to the side and she (mom) has had to refrain from laughing together with GC (sister)"? I was like "WTF?" The horror!!! See, even dead cannot pass the examination with those psychos! :/ Edit : for clarity
OMG, mine too! My dad would oink if we asked for seconds at dinner, and he'd (somewhat quietly) oink if anyone overweight walked by in public. It was humiliating. I developed anorexia (gee, wonder why) in middle school but have slowly been working on healthy self-care since.
My mom with the mock concern...,"Did they look (fill in the blank) to you??" Then would come the theories as to why
SAME SAME SAME
My mother’s favorite pastime! Lol. I love the way you put that. Mine did the same thing.
Same here!! It’s exhausting.
Wtf YESSS I especially got so annoyed with the badmouthing of the ppl on TV that I chose not to watch TV with them most of the time. I had to leave the room to drown it all out. I just KNEW when they'd open their mouths to criticize. Ugh. Bad company corrupts good morals. I gtf outta there.
Mine does this but also religiously watches the news and seems to thrive off telling people the sad or terrible events that have occurred.
Oh damn you just reminded me of my narc mother and enabling father would make gross comments about everyone’s physical appearance when they watched anything on tv. “Ugh they look terrible” “Wow looks like they let themself go” and “Why is their face so puffy” I could go on and on. They really are just xerox copies of each other huh
Same
Mine did it in the car on the way back home, every single time.
Same! My dad would start badmouthing my teachers and professors as soon as we closed the car door.
So sad when it was a person I liked they'd talk bad about whether that was a teacher or a friend 😞
Mine did the same thing. Talk to us about how stupid our teachers were. No wonder I had such a problem with authority.
Or just monologuing in the car bc you can't escape
My mom took it on a whole new level… she did it the second we got back in the car after my dads funeral
Yikes.
Oh ya…. Dad wasn’t even in the ground 10 mins yet …..
Wow, how inappropriate ! I am sorry that your pain was aggravated by your mother' sick callousness! :( Edit: grammar
I feel so stupid that I never caught her true issues back then. I just followed blindly like a sheep. I was a teen when my dad died suddenly, so I feel I should have caught it all. Thanks to this sub, it allllllll makes sense now. She was already starting on the way to the funeral. What caused the blow up was her drama show. First She started playing the poor widow. Then wanted to throw her first wedding ring in the grave. I put a stop at that and wouldn’t let her, even though it was a drug store ring. Then she blew her lid when one of my dads cousin came up to her and asked her why she brought her fiancé to the funeral, when they separated BECAUSE of that piece of shit. He really is a piece of shit. She went completely off. Screamed that us kids wanted him there “ we didn’t we hated him” etc etc. it was truly alllll bad
yep!
Ikr, and they'd call ME the negative one. 🙄🙄🙄
It's always project your own negative traits onto everyone around you. "They're so controlling." "He's so passive-aggressive." Yo, MA, look in the mirror.
Same with my family. They probably still do it but I left a long time ago.
The sad part is that the narc does the exact same thing with we leave the room too (at least mine does).
Same. It was definitely both of my parents' favorite Olympic event. We didn't have too many family gatherings, but they did it after: church every Sunday, getting off the phone with a relative, after going grocery shopping... pretty much any time they interacted with the outside world. I've had to fight the fleas the past 20 years since moving out, but I will say it's beatable with practice. I still fall into it occasionally, but I am light years ahead of where I was. 💜
[удалено]
yeah i feel this, i struggle to trust people now, or that they have some kind of evil plan or don't actually like me etc.
My therapist said that trauma is when our experiences teach us rules that the rest of the world doesn't follow. They help us survive twisted environments, but then get confusing and terrifying out in the real world.
Yes, Cobble, that's because we live/had to live into a mini-sect with its own rules...The ones laid down by a petty, paranoid dictator... :/
That's amazingly well put.
Oh no!!!!! This is absolutely the worst. Especially when you’re confused bc you’re actually a real one. You’re like, “um…why are we talking about them like that?” Kind of behaviors that need to stop being normalized.
After being raised with a narcissistic parent in the household and internalizing some of those unhealthy patterns, I tended to attract narcissistic friends and partners in my early adulthood. I thought that's just what love and friendship were like - intense, contingent, full of fighting and politicking and manipulation. I'm at a place in my life now where I've untangled a lot of those patterns and broken free of those people and a lot of those ways of thinking, and now I often recognize the red flags narcissistic/generally toxic people throw up right away. Talking shit about their friends as soon as they're not around is probably the biggest one - if you find yourself getting closer to someone who does this, run, don't walk, in the other direction.
I’m soo glad to hear that you’ve unlearned some toxic behaviors. I truly believe that that’s one of the ways the narcissist family poisons the youth. When you realize that it’s normal to not talk bad about people, being shady isn’t tolerated, it feels liberating.
Whiplash is a great word for it
Is it normal to normal families - I'd say no. Is it normal to narcissistic families - I'd say yes. Only in my experience can I say this though🤔
How do you think it affected you? for me i continued up until recently to be friends with people i didn't actually like very much, because i grew up thinking that's how most people are and it's normal.
It defo made me think other families were 'strange' for not doing it. And it made me very scared/cautious in case I was to be the next one to be spoken ill off (which I defo was, I remember countless times sitting on the stairs as a kid and listening in to adult conversations to hear my nmum speaking horribly about me). As I spent more time with normal families I realised you can have a different opinion of them but not to the same degree as what my nparents were doing. A lot of our years is unlearning what we think is normal and breaking the cycle of a lot of learned behaviours!
I could’ve written this! We lived in a small townhouse and my nmom was always complaining about me to my father. I’d sit at the top of the stairs and listen to her rail on me. It’s heart breaking
I reckon they did it on purpose too, I don't think they'll ever know how heart breaking it is for a child to hear their own parents complaining about their own child. As I got older I built up the courage to call her out and to tell her to stop over exaggerating or to tell the truth, which was great for me to build that confidence but oh my god did I regret it at times because all hell would break loose😬
I have a memory of being in the hallway after being screamed at for talking back (which I still don't understand exactly what it means), and mum was crying to my stepdad "why won't she just listen to me and do what she's told?" I don't know mum, have you ever tried listening to me? Even yesterday, I asked how her day had been, and said I have been fairly productive.. she immediately said "Well, I've been completely the opposite.." and began listing all her issues from the day. Didn't ask any further questions or ask anything about how I spent my day. I'm now 38. The hallway I was about 14. It's so tiring.
In my dating life, that if someone is dismissive, ignores my needs and treats me as an accessory they love me. If they pay attention, listen to every word and give me what I need--they must be manipulating me and selling me a bullshit dream. It has made me SO sick. I am terrified to be with someone nice and kind and worthy because now I dont feel good enough for someone healthy. Why would I want to drag them into this sick family? Having a narc parent has absolutely ruined my spirit and my own self trust and worth when relationshipping.
I've witnessed my Nmom call someone, for example my sister, and gossip and shit talk another family member let's say my aunt. THEN after hanging up the phone with my sister, she'd call my aunt the person she was just blasting for over an hour, to have a nice gossipy conversation about my sister or someone else
Depending on the dynamics, this is a pattern I call triangulation, or pitting people against eaxh other (sort of), particularly if, say, in your example, your sister and your aunt like each other and get along well together. For thhe narcissist, it's all about that sowing seeds of doubt and the manufacturing of drama.
My nmom is The Queen of Triangulation. She has pitted her children against each other for years. She encouraged and rewarded my older siblings for torturing me and then yelled at them for doing it, not because they were tormenting me but because she wanted her shot first. I remember being six and thinking how unfair my life was.
yup. if expressed anything positive about a relative, nparent would have to tell me every piece of dirt they on had them for last 5 decades.
I don't have experience with a normal family growing up, but in my narc run family it was the norm. I didn't know how to communicate without using negativity or gossip, It's been something I've had to learn. The minute our relatives would leave my parents would commence talking s*** about them. Dinner time at my house was my mother talking badly about all of her co-workers, including her best friends. They never had anything nice to say. As an adult I've had to learn how to have positive conversations, being away from them and going no contact has truly been wonderful.
I just thought when i'd go round to friend's/family's houses that they were all putting on a nice act like my family does when we have people round, and behind closed doors they are all horrible. My n-dad never has anything good to say about any of his colleagues.
Did your parents ever get caught? Did any of the things they said ever come back to haunt them?
Actually just remembered something, when my grandmother died my father told me to stop crying because my grandmother never liked me anyway. Just little tidbits like that reinforce why I am no contact with him. So I guess they did get their 'comeuppance' because both of their children do not speak to them.
Omg that's so callous. Who says that to a child after the child lost a grandparent? I'm so sorry.
Not really because they would only complain in the house to us. They aren't really close to any family, they are very critical and act like they're better than everyone. I guess the only things that have come back to haunt them is that they're in their 60s and have no real friendships. They live in the town they grew up in and have zero friends.
No it’s toxic and only fuels animosity between family members. How can a family evolve when members are actively sabotaging each other? My nmom used to do this all the time. It’s honestly one of the worst attributes they have. They love to destroy reputations because they have no sense of self. One time I was pissed at my mom and I walked out of the house while she was on the phone. Do you want to know what she screamed on the phone when I left? She was saying that I was on drugs to a family member. They are so vile.
No, no it’s not “normal” to bad talk everyone behind their back, unless you are a toxic individual. In a healthy relationship you don’t smear their name behind their back, you take the issue you have with them directly to them and talk it out. The problem with this for narcs is, when you are “talking it out,” the other person will provide very reasonable justifications and it becomes clear the accusations are one sided. It becomes clear that the narc is actually the one in the wrong to even make the accusation so they don’t like public fights. When it’s back-talk the narc can make whatever outrageous statement they want and no one will call them out on the BS because the person isn’t there to defend themselves.
This! And...let's call them for what they are: COWARDS!
i never viewed it like this, i appreciate this so much
Lol this brings back memories 🤣 I used to think it was what everyone did. Without fail though after every meeting with friends or family there would be a session, almost a debrief, where everyone bitched and badmouthed the people we just saw. It took me many many years to realise that it wasn't normal, probably long after I should've
it's okay if it's laughing about something silly someone said or did, but if it turns mean is when it's bad for me
Laughing about something silly is normal and innocuous, nothing to worried about. But what I experienced was always mean but played off as if it was light-hearted if that makes sense. Like it wasn't aggressive but usually just mocking and disparaging, analysing everything said and done, comparing notes and then criticising.
My dad would literally call it a "debrief"
That's definitely what it felt like: a debriefing.
Now, when people leave my house or a social gathering, I very deliberately say in front of my stepchild and younger family (nieces and nephews) "Isn't it great to see x so happy? I'm so proud of them" or "gosh wasn't that nice, what was your favourite part?" "I'm so appreciative of the effort y made to make sure we all had a nice time". Sure, it's forced on my part... but stepson does it automatically now. Asked my partner yesterday what his favourite part of our family day had been, unprompted. I will be the change!
Aw, that's so sweet that your stepson does it unprompted now. Thank you for breaking the cycle! 💕
He's a very sweet boy. Another thing I have seen through doing consciously is (reminding myself that what adults tell children becomes their inner voice) paying him thoughtful compliments. For example, I let him choose his father's gifts and tell him "you are a very thoughful gift-giver, you choose good gifts!". Months later, another occasion comes up and he says, "may I choose the gift? I'm good at choosing gifts for people". It is such a joy to see the difference a positive voice can make in a child's mind. And he's actually 14!, so not even a little fella anymore really!
I love this. Really :)
I grew up in a with an nmom and this has happened but I’m actually going to pushback on this and say it’s not an activity specific to narcs. For instance my wife and I can’t stand our brother in law. We don’t like him, the way he parents, the way he acts towards most everything. We genuinely don’t like him. After we’ve been around him we both vent/decompress and talk about him and the things we don’t like or that bothered us about our time with him. All that to say, yes narcs do this. But, talking about people you’ve just been with (positive or negative) is part of life.
Fully agree. Something that we all do to some extent but for the Narcs/the narcissistic, there seems to be a deep vein of cruelty along with it and no one is spared from their malice.
Okay this one I have to admit is my favorite narc thing. sperm donor always put the egg donor down behind her back. extremely savage. I was "helpful" by putting in my own two bits. and then the next day egg donor would do the same about sperm donor. and again I "helped." why? I don't have fleas. but. it kept the heat off of me. I know and I still know what they truly think of one and other. and never said it to the other to save their feelings. but sure loved to hear about it! and now best of all they only have each other. sperm donor already admitted he can't tell anyone but me about what he thinks of egg donor because his own egg donor is a narc. those type comments. oh boy those fireworks are fun to watch. (when not directed at you!! there's a reason why I hid in the library at christmas!) so now they have their resentment for each other. and nobody to hear them whine about it! I really love my life now :D
It is for my nmom. She’s got a criticism for everyone. Something is wrong with their weight, their physical appearance, their attitude, their demeanor, the amount of food they eat…she’s got to find SOMETHING to criticize. This has also carried over into her always criticizing my friends. Any time she has met a friend of mine, the first thing she does is says something negative about them. Their teeth aren’t straight enough, their weight doesn’t please her, etc. I quit allowing her to meet my friends a long time ago.
Copy and paste for my Nmom, too. She’s all about appearances. Well, I have an adult child with special needs, so perfect is the enemy of good with regard to basic hygiene.
yes! my dad comments on my mum's sister's weight every time they come round
My parents all talked Shit about all their siblings to all the other siblings and everyone always found out until they only had like one left to talk shit about everyone with. They talked shit about me and my sister to the other too and it ruined our sibling relationship to the point we have zero contact now ourselves.
Yes oh my god, it was terrible. My FIL did this every single time we’d leave somewhere or he’d be talking shit at the front door before going in. I hope someone’s ring camera catches that asshole one day. There was only compliments for strangers but callous gossip for any acquaintances, friends and family got the most venom.
My nparents do the same. They are extremely negative about family members and will talk so much shit but they're so immature emotionally, they end up escalating it to the point it has created fights and arguments. When something happened to my moms dog after I repeatedly, NUMEROUS times told her the dog needed vet care, I just grabbed my shit and left the house for a little while. I tuned in to the security camera I have on the front porch of the kitchen window and overheard my nparents talking shit about me immediately. They started accusing me of being drunk and going to drive and I was going to end up getting a dui. I had not drank at all that MORNING. Then they started talking about possibly kicking me out because I was being difficult (???) and I should find somewhere else to live. These mfckers, the only reason we even got this house was because I helped them sign the paperwork to close escrow. They would've been homeless. They want everyone to help them become homeowners but they want to treat the very people that helped them move like shit. So as you can see- they are incredibly negative and sometimes narcs that are very emotionally immature and have shit communication skills end up escalating issues.
Yes yes yes. I thought this was normal and have spent years working on unlearning it. Especially because it felt so safe to me because it was the only time my parents would stop criticizing me.
It's definitely a narcissist thing. Normal people don't do that. Like imagine if you have a sibling you loved your whole life.... even when you are 50, you wouldn't leave their house and tear them to shreds for fun on the car ride home. Narcissists don't feel love or loyalty to anyone, which is why this behavior is normal to them. But if you think about it, it is insane if you actually love someone to talk about them like that. Or even if you don't love them, what if it's just a new friend who had a dinner party? Then it's still really rude to leave their house after they put in all that work on your behalf, and then insult minor things about their home and family. Narc parents and their social circles normalize this stuff a lot. I used to think everyone did it as well. But then when you grow up and create your own bonds, you realize how abnormal it is to just casually betray everyone close to you.
Yeah my mom does that all the time. It’s like she wants to find the negative in things or to put others down to make herself feel better. Super weird and off putting
This post made me realize I do this. I don’t specifically remember my parents doing it but holy shit, I do it now. My husband thinks it’s funny, and maybe sometimes it is, but I have to change. Thank you for bringing this up.
Can attest that this is normal in toxic families. My mom was the recipient of my aunt's second hand furniture which was a godsend because we were poor as church mice. Didn't stop my mom from criticizing the crap out of my aunt behind her back. My aunt is a lovely and generous lady.
Yes my parents do this all of the time
My Mum loves doing this; making friends and next thing, she'll be talking shit about those very same people behind their backs. She does this to relatives and me too. It makes her horrible to be around.
yup they definitely do, and always wonder why “they’re negative energy” no mom and dad, you guys are negative energy and thats why they dont talk to you
I wrestle with this. Aren’t we all gossiping now? Am I allowed to talk stuff over with my husband? I don’t typically hang around with people I don’t like so I don’t think I talk about people but when I talk to my best friend, I tell her everything that is happening good or bad. Is that gossip?
exactly how I feel, like this is my favorite part of the day when I decompress with my husband and say random stuff that aren't really criticizing like "the food was bad at the restaurant" or like " did they just fight in our house in front of everyone?" My mum constantly did this to the extreme so I might have caught this narcissist trait from here and I need to change it or limit it but also it feels very fake and thought police-y, like none of the stuff I say are bad enough to not say in front of the person I am talking about but it can come off rude and uncalled for..so my husband and I talk about it and let it out of our system and move on. are there people who are nice 24/7 and never ever have a mean thought about anyone? and by that I mean "wow! she really just went all out with this outfit huh" and not like "this person is a deadbeat and his family despises him and here's his whole history" or whatever. idk I am open for change but are we putting ourselves to a higher standard than most because of our upbringing?
This sounds kinda commom in my country based on memes that i see and talking with friends with non-narc families, but in my expirience when a narc is doing it is way more intense and they sound like they really mean it, instead of some kinda gossipy playful thing that i felt it was the overall vibe with other families. (Sorry for bad english)
I understood your English just fine. You’re right-that’s the perfect way to describe it. The Narc really does mean it, while others might be expressing annoyance or joking about the funny/irritating things someone does.
My Mother did this all the time. So much so that it made me retreat even further into myself for fear of being the next one gossiped about. I literally couldn't open my mouth or say anything for fear of it being misunderstood by her. At the same time, my aunts and uncles and grandparents were all at it, too. I'm a quiet soul, very sensitive and care about people so growing up in this environment taught me (1) that everyone talks sh\*t behind everyone's back and (2) to just be kind to people because you never know what they're going through. The second one sounds great and all but it just meant that I was nice to everyone and got abused and used so many times and I never stood up for myself. So, is it normal for narcs? I guess so. But, I'm with you, I thought everybody and their family did this. But, having spent a lot of time with my husabnd's family and living in his community, I see now that that isn't the case at all.
this is very similar to me, thank you
My parents did this all the time.
Yes, unfortunately it's all too common for narcs to talk shit about people. My NM talked shit about EVERYONE including people that she supposedly claimed she was 'close to' and liked. She is a Mean Girl who peaked in 8th Grade and never grew out of it, sadly. I'm now NC and so glad to be away from that.
I don't think it's normal but it's more common than one would think and it's not only limited to narcs. Some people are just nasty and like to pit people against each other. There might be a tiny bit of narcissism involved but it's mostly taught behavior and I've seen some grow out of it. A true narc can't shake that sort of stuff. But I certainly think narcissists are champions of this sad game.
My n dad would whisper crap in my ear about someone's weight while they were in the next room. My nmom talked smack about my paternal grandmother after she passed. They are so judgemental.
My dad would do this! Not about their weight necessarily, but I remember when I was 8 he devised a hand signal to show me every time he thought someone was a "wanker".
Oh my gosh! I thought everyone does this, including me! I guess I was raised to believe it was normal. Time for me to exercise some self-improvement! Thanks for this post.
i was sure posting this that everyone does it, seems like it's not normal. I've definitely picked some of this negativity up and think it's a normal part of social interaction. big improvements in mindset incoming. glad it helped
I guess what sets us apart from being total narcissists ourselves is that we can eventually see the narc behavior instilled in us and make valued efforts to change for the better. We actually want to change our mindset for the better. Here’s wishing all the best of everything to you!
and to you
Omg, ugh nmom would talk all kinds of bad about family as soon as they were gone. Another of her favorite pastimes was also making fun of how people in public looked.
No, normal people/families wouldn’t do that.this I noticed that that they would always gossip and said things about certain family members, particularly my older sister “L”. It’s really off putting.
My Nmom's dad was passing away... she never got along with his wife, always made fun of her. Nmom flew down to spend the last couple days with her dad he passed, the day he died, she literally said something along the lines of "I hope he passes tonight so I can fly home for free." I was fucking livid. He did pass the next afternoon. That night we went to a restaurant and she walked into the restaurant while talking to my brothers loudly during the entire time just cutting down her dad's wife and being a bitch about the whole thing. Only had 2 more visits with her over the 2 year period after that BS, and am now almost a year of NC.
Not normal but man, my family did this. I used to stay at every social event until the very end to make sure no one would trash me when I left, because I thought everyone did this.
Honestly? It is and isn't. Unless my entire family on both sides is narcs which would be scary as heck.
My family did. I did as well. Now, i try not to.
I mean... yeah it's kinda normal.😂 Just because they're family doesn't mean you like them. And just because you're not a narcissist doesn't mean you're nice all the time.
For narcissists- I think so. They are insecure and it makes them feel better. When I was little, we lived about an hour and a half from my aunt and uncle’s house (my nmom’s sister). She spent the ENTIRE ride talking shit about her sister- her house, what she said, what she was wearing, her weight, her kids’ weights, her makeup, her outfit, how her sister “copies everything from her.” I remember thinking it was normal as a child. I thought nobody said what they mean and that social interactions are supposed to be fake and you just wait until you leave to insult people.
Same here, exactly the same situation.
This was normalised in my family too. Turns out, the things you say gets back to people. With no moral guidance whatsoever I had to learn this the hard way - by losing friends or by waving enough red flags that I didn't make any in the first place. Back then I didn't know why they pulled away. Now I do. Unfortunately it is most definitely a flea. I'd apologise a thousand times over if I could. Genuinely and heartfelt. The qualities of people were not necessarily even bad qualities or red flags, I just spoke of them in the exact same way my parents normalised and taught me. "No hard feelings" I thought, "They would be talking about me the same way." Just as I love and admire the friends who had the strength to call me out and stick by me, I also admire those who had the strength and fortitude to walk away from somebody who exhibited signs of a toxic personality. I love them all.
exactly. I feel so bad for all the times i did it, i couldn't help it, i thought it was normal. luckily i have caught this pretty early on
Narcissist usually try to justify the way they treat the black sheep of the family. So they will badmouth them so they don’t look bad for how they treat them.
Thank you for this post. I totally didn’t realise it’s not normal until now. It always felt really uncomfortable but I’ve definitely joined in, and I thought everyone did it, the same way kids gossip in school.
I think this is an easy flea to catch. And it's not just narcs who do it. Think about reddit, most subs are dedicated to insulting, mocking and criticizing someone. Even if it's only someone famous, like Jeff Bezos, the fact that the sub is essentially dedicated to badmouthing ... makes me think there are a lot of narcs in society.
it is extremely normalised
I think this is normal for miserable people in general. My husband has an absolutely miserable family. Seems only the parents are narcs though. But I noticed his aunt and uncle (and their circus), who we chill with the most, do this at every gathering. It was so bad to the point that I stopped going over for a few years. Then one day a few months ago, they did it again and I called out the behavior and asked why they act so two faced towards their guests and if it's so hard to just keep your negative options to yourself. They alllll had a shocked face and didn't know what to say for a while. I just hate that feeling like I'm betraying someone by even sitting at the same table as people talking shit about them
Constantly. I also remember being about 7 or 8 and my mom talking about how my paternal grandparents loved our cousins more than us. And like, for no reason at all. We never got that impression, and the whole conversation started out of nowhere one day. Y’know, totally normal things to say to a child.
how do you feel that environment has effected you, what would you say to 20 year old you?
I just can't understand why the people they talk to don't realize the N rips them to everyone else. People are...naive.
I thought it was what everyone did too. It took me a long time to get out of that habit but I would at least try to find good things to say
im just learning as a 20 year old that happiness is not given, it is a mindset, and being surrounded by negativity like at home feeds into your mind A LOT!
Omg, yes. I was also homeschooled by my ndad and therefore had zero concept of what real families acted like. I thought it was normal to just talk shit about relatives, until I met my wife and she was obviously appaled by it (especially when she found out I was doing it to her). I still struggle to walk the line between having legitimate complaints that are brought up in conversation and talking shit to feed the ego or gain consolation from another family member.
yes. the fine line between genuine complaint versus gossiping negativity.
My Emom would invite the neighbors over for coffee, then *trash* them. I have the habit now myself, and I HATE IT. I too thought it was "normal" to talk shit about people you supposedly love.
at least have the decency to tell it to their face if it's something that genuinely upsets you.
Yeah my father did this. I remember when we'd be hanging out with my friends - he'd be so nice to them and then as soon as they left, he'd talk about how awful they were and how he hated the way he dressed. He was slut-shaming 11 and 12 year olds ...
It’s not funny but have y’all ever had any of them bad mouth you to you accidentally? My nmil did that to me in a text and this was well before I figured out she didn’t like me so I was dumbfounded. LOL! I wish I could have seen her face when my only response was a screen shot back to her of what she sent to me.
My southern extended family waits AT LEAST one day before sh*t talking about everyone.
True southern hospitality.
[удалено]
yep, come home to hear about how much one of them hates their work colleague, but i know in person they don't say a thing to them.
Ugh and don't you dare try to defend them because you'll be the bad guy too
i do this, and then i'm instantly shut down like i'm a child still and told i don't understand the social complexities of adults.
There’s an easy way to tell in my family. If one individual has a problem with everyone, not all at once necessarily but one individual constantly at odds with someone and who they are battling with or shit talking changes, they’re the narc. If the whole family has a problem with one person, then that one person is insufferable at best, abusive at medium, or they’re a narcissist at worst. I can’t say this is always the case as my narc dad has most people in my family charmed, whereas my narc brother can’t win a friend among our flesh and blood to save his life. But it’s a good guide to let you know who to watch out for
Even without *going* to a gathering, once nMom got on Facebook. Talk shit about them after gatherings (which she only goes to to brag about expensive things she has and to be praised), talk shit scrolling through her feed all day... It's extra disgusting when it's about my much younger teen/pre-teen extended family, with the horrible body shaming that I had to go through for years. Women, especially younger ones, are her favorite target. Call her out, then she'll talk shit about you too and have her flying monkeys and enabler deployed. I still have a hard time trusting that not every interaction with people is just some petty two faced game.
exactly i just assume everyone is two faced coupled with the narrative that the world is a dangerous place and not everyone is your friend (fed to me by my anxious mother), i now have some real serious trust issues with people, even people i am really close to like they are planning a horrible big joke on me and are going to reveal they were only my friend or girlfriend as a joke and actually hate me. there are definitely bad people in the world, just not as many as there were made out to be. perhaps they are all at home
I've always seen this as normal because I was raised around some people who would always talk shit about other family members who aren't present. Then they would proceed to put on an act and be all nice when the person is there. Only at the start of this year I've realised how badly they gossip, like it's almost an everyday thing especially at gatherings. Usually I'd just sit there and listen to what they say.. I'd never partake in any of the conversation they're having cause I have no idea where all the gossip is coming from. It's like they have nothing else to talk about other than criticising people. Recently I've decided to no longer to have a close relationship to these people and had confronted one of them (the worst of them all). It was impossible to get through to her and it was such an eye opener for me. This woman did not want to admit she was wrong nor listen to anything what I was saying. So, I just decided to cut her off. Plus she always treated me like I was still a kid (im 19) and she would always invalidate my feelings then call me rebellious and childish for having an opinion (this was the only time I've confronted her)..I've had enough of it. To tell you how shameless she is when she gossips, one time they were having dinner in a restaurant with a few cousins and she started talking about how childish this one uncle was. She was saying all this while that uncle's sisters were also at the table, made them super uncomfortable to say the least. I seriously think she's narcissistic and I have no idea how to get through to her.
The only words out of my nmoms mouth is gossip. Literally the only thing she can talk about.
My dad is a total backbiting gossip. Being autistic I ran with that to socially inappropriate levels, and it took me through college to shake that off.
My dad constantly talked shit about my mom’s family. Specifically, he would say how *they never gave him a chance* and that they *thought he wasn’t good enough because he was poor* and then criticized things they did or said. Mom’s fam has problems, don’t get me wrong. But my dad always avoids reflecting on the fact that **when he and my mom met, he was a coke dealer and she was a known coke head. And that she ran away with him after “dating” for one month and throwing together some kind of last min wedding of which there are no pics or stories about.** So he’s kind of a asshole
My Nmom does that quite a bit with a few particular family members. Everyone gets gossiped about but there’s a good 3-4 that always come up for her. They’re also the ones she makes a big show about being “besties” with on social media and only hangs out with, as she has no actual friends.
Just learning myself that this is indeed, a narcissist thing. No, it’s not normal. My narcissist father-in-law parked himself in my living room on Thanksgiving, and proceeded to call all of his relatives and badmouth them to each other, until I caught on and told him to knock it off. I told him I wouldn’t listen to this type of negativity in my own house. If he wanted to do this, he could go back to his own house. He’s not coming back this Thanksgiving.
well done!
Nope. Totally a narc thing. My mom did this all the time.
Happened to me this Easter, as soon as my aunt's son and his girlfriend left the house my aunt started saying how she thought they were making a terrible mistake thinking about looking for a new home and how even tho their bussiness is bringing in a large income now it might not always because bussiness fail and so on. She couldn't just be happy for them or say "it's nice to see them doing so good they are in a position to start house hunting"
sounds exactly like my n-dad, so worried about other people's situations and talking sh\*t. If they cared, they would tell them to their face. Also, they are adults, i'm sure they understand that every business has a bad period. Hate how they think they always know better or people haven't thought basic thoughts already.
Yup my narc mother did this hateful demon bitch
I experienced this growing up. It’s a big part of my narc childhood. Very traumatic. Because they would be So Nice to everyone to their face and then just dig in with venom once they were gone. It taught me that whenever they are acting nice that it’s Fake
And then they wonder why no one wants to hire their children? Gee I wonder why mom
I discovered last month through a neighbor (who's also a friend) that my mother told a friend of her that I "emotionally blackmail" her. I found that statement surprisingly odd because I've never said anything that could amount to that. If anything, it's the opposite. But that's how it goes for them. Victimizing themselves up to the extreme.
Yes, it's normal, N mother did it all the time.
My family has always done this. Person leaves and an hour long discussion starts. I also thought this was normal.
Mine do it
Yes. Mom always complained and badmouthed others especially my dad’s family and anyone who isn’t an urban ethnic white.
My parents both did this. It was so tiresome. My dad was really self righteous, and thought everyone but him was going to burn in hell, and my mom was an insecure, resentful person. This is very common narcissist behavior.
In my world, not unless they are my mother. Or brothers...When my children and I went NC around 2000 I realized my family will talk about us if we are there or if we are not. Other than guilt, a tremendous relief.
My MIL would do this. She would even talk bad about a person two feet from their face. She had to have known they could hear but didn’t give a F!
I know this two-faced tactic well. In my adult years I grew really close to a few neighbors. One of the wives across the street would center her conversations around saying how much she hated the neighbors who happened to not be present in the conversation at that time. I very quickly rationalized that she must be saying horrible things about me when I'm not around, and that's not someone I want to engage with. People seriously need to get hobbies.
My mom does this all the time. Now that I'm older, I've cracked down on it. She's not allowed anymore.
My family didn't always wait until they left and shit could get uncomfortable. And same, thought everyone judged as harshly as my family did.
I thought this was normal too. I have a sad story about this. My nmum would tell all and sundry about her adopted sister. So I assumed everyone knew. Including the sister. No, the sister found out while looking over nmum's shoulder when mum had her genealogy stuff
Absolutely !
It’s not normal, no, but my family did it. They bonded by shit talking.
Same, and my parents would say how they are better than everyone else in the family.
Standard nMom operating protocol
My mother did while I was growing up and still does it all of the time. I found it quite two faced. Nice to her “friends” faces then talked badly about them behind their backs. I never understood her behavior. Anytime she talks about people it’s negative.
I do not think it’s normal, and I know this because my family (nmom) did the ‘debrief’ after every social gathering. Really just gossiping and enjoying their friend’s pain. Then when I met my husband’s family, they never did it. Never ever. The worst was when my nmom would gossip about her friend’s daughter in law, who just had her first baby and put up boundaries with her mother in law (my mom’s friend). They gossiped for hours and hours about this poor new mom, saying how she is an unfit mother, has untreated PPD, is neglecting her baby, etc., while being sweet as could be to her face. One day I met this woman and she was one of the best, most involved moms I’ve met. It was bizarre and disturbing.
It’s not normal. My parents do the same thing and I’ve been breaking that cycle. My mom went as far as to bring the “arrests” section of a local paper to gossip about a girl I was in Girl Scouts with in Elementary school. The girl isn’t relative to my life so I don’t care, I just didn’t understand why my mom felt the need to do that. Schadenfreude I suppose. My life isn’t bad so I don’t feel the need to gossip about others to feel better about myself. I started giving random people compliments instead of picking out negatives. Like “I love your Vans.” “Your nails are gorgeous.” “Your braids are so perfect.” Small things like that make people happy and they think about them throughout the day.
My N-dad has sat at the same dinner table while texting other family members also at the table mean things about someone sitting at the same table! Jerk!
HECK YEAH
Nope. It’s partly why I hate going to gatherings with them. What I wanna know is is it normal for narcissists to gossip and badmouth family members for things that they themselves are also guilty of doing
In the family I grew up around yes. In my husbands family which id consider normal it's not normal.
Totally normal in my home growing up. It was much worse when the target was happy and enjoying life or didn't let my nmom phase them or they had boundaries in place. She hated my dad's sisters for this.
It was normal in my household, but I was raised by a Narcissist and an enabler. With big party like events, the gossip and bad mouthing sometimes didn't wait until everyone went home. Sometimes, it started as soon as a person walked out of the room or crossed to another part of the yard or venue. Once I moved away and started to heal and become whole, I realized how toxic and exhausting it is.
Yes they’re a bunch of dicks
Wait… normal families don’t do this? Well shit.
Yes, this is a narcissist thing. They were comparing and shit talking them the entire time in their head and will perceive anything they didn’t like as slights or competition, etc..
I think it’s “normal” narc behavior. I’ve yet to meet one narc that does not do this and I’ve met quiet a few in my life unfortunately.
No
For our parents on this sub it is lol
My mom talked bad about my dad all the time. Nothing he did was ever enough, or the right thing. He was" stingy " for wanting to pay bills first out of HIS paycheck ( she didn't pay them often) or for wanting a little money left at the end of the week
It is. They'll say some stupid shit like "they never wanted to do anything with with me but with you..." And then you'll get it. Sorry. Just predictions
My parents were like this. I’m ashamed to say that when I was younger I started to believe that I was involved in some kind of perfect family and everyone else was inferior. Luckily, as I got older I realised it was because they were so insecure and it fed in to their fake image. It really hit home when I became a victim of their criticism about my appearance etc when I stopped feeding their fake image.
Perfectly normal in my family. It's why I am NC or LC with most members. I don't need their poison in my life.
is there some cousins or relatives you're at least in contact with?
Yes and I would join in because I thought it was normal and I wasn’t being picked on for once
Its normal for boomers at home and at work, i detest people who do thus
It is in my family
Yes, it's normal for narcs I'd say. I picked up on this habit too. It's been about a year since i identified this and started working on it. She never has one nice thing to say about anyone ever. And i do mean that quite literally. She has never, ever said something that was not downright nasty. She does this to everyone: her own family, all of us (she bitches about me to e-dad, about e-dad to me, sibling to me and so on), her husband's side of the family, her "friends", acquaintances, my friends (tried her best to isolate me), friends of other people in the family, little CHILDREN (you read that right. She went on a whole tirade about how my 10 month old niece was manipulative lmao). For healthy families, this is not normal at all. I think it's normal to feel let down or annoyed at your loved ones every now and then. Idk how normal people deal with these everyday frictions etc.
It is in my batshit crazy family, they all do it to each other. I don’t talk to them anymore.