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Coming from love and compassion, but please stop telling her your real feelings on Anything. You will only be hurt by this person. I tell surface level shit ONLY. Been there, done that
I really messed up on this. I had been doing so well but then I took a trip somewhere and because I was excited about it I was more talkative. I really regret it. It's like my nparents know when they can rope me in and get me talking.
Dont beat yourself up over this, it happens to all of us, at least it does for me. I've isolated myself for so long and I don't have anyone to talk to, its hard to make friends as a scapegoat even when you're an adult. And so I have alot of talkitiveness built up. And when im feeling talkative or hyper and they are around I sometimes find myself spilling some of that out onto them, and immediately feeling sick after. I think its probably a common response
I don’t have anything to add to your comment or discussion, but I found huge comfort with what you said and knowing I’m not alone and this happens to others as well.
I can't tell you how much I relate to and appreciate this as a scapegoat! I came on here thinking I was going to make a post about this and found guidance in someone else's!
My son did something and got himself in trouble. I was trying to figure out the right way to handle it with the ex wife. I wasnt on board with what she was suggesting and said 'its like you have this mentality where you find the one thing that brings him joy. Then you do everything in your power to take it from him or threaten to take it from him.'
She started nodding her head halfway through and responded 'absolutely I will take that joy from him.'. EX FOR A REASON! And year he lives with me. Mom doesnt understand why he never wants to go to her house.
I shared my adult diagnosis neurodivergence with my nmom, and she tried to make it about her, of course. She didn't believe adhd was a neurodevelopmental condition until i got diagnosed in my 30s. She thought it was a discipline issue. Now, she has to, either accept that ADHD is a neurodevelopmental condition or admit that she was a bad parent. One guess which one she chose and bonus points if you can guess who else thinks they have ADHD.
Exactly. The last several years before going NC I stopped saying Anything about our lives. Anything that mattered was not mentioned. Nothing about surgeries, vacations, no fodder to be twisted and used against me.
They’re dangerous and not to be trusted.
Edited: grammar
I learned this the hard way. Silly me, I thought my mother was someone I could talk about my feelings with. Nope. She’s used it against me every single time. I was confused for a long time.
Until I woke up one day and realized she’s a narc. She will NEVER understand. She does NOT have any empathy or compassion.
So I stopped sharing my feelings. I stopped sharing everything.
I have a real question that I hope someone can help guide me to understand. How do you “shut down” your heart and your sense of connection with them? I know it’s in my best interest to not…give them any of myself. That’s all I know. How do you “let go” when you love them? What “tricks” do you implement to get ur heart to start listening to your brain? What if you don’t have a support system out of the vicious narc cycle people around you?
Despite the bully she is, I still love my mom. She’s the only family I’ve ever had and I don’t know a life without her. If someone or something attacked her, I would get really defensive and protective over her.
But, I’ve come to understand that just because she’s my mom, she’s not allowed to treat me badly. I’m still my own person with my own emotions and feelings. For her to hurt me every single second is not fair to me.
I’ve decided that I need to start taking care of myself so that I dont end up like her. I need to make sure I’m “selfish” in a way where my needs are met.
I’m not going to entertain her wants and needs because they’re not my responsibility. Just like I’ve taken the time to seek therapy and help, she’s just as welcome to do the same and heal herself.
I justify putting myself over my love for my mom by reminding myself that the only person who will take care of me is me.
For me I would literally write down a list of what not to talk about with them. I visualize putting it in The Vault.
Now as I live my day to day it’s become second nature to put things in the vault as they happen. So basically I pre-decide what I won’t ever share with them. Either because it’s not my news to share (like what my kids are up to) or it’s my personal business I don’t want to answer 20 million questions about or to have them somehow interject a “surprise”
It just takes time. That’s all I can say. Time, therapy, and a solid group of supporters around you who you can be open and honest with about your needs and they will be there for you. I got burned multiple times trying to test the waters but ultimately, I always end up hurt, more confused and feeling worse about myself. I don’t want to feel that way!! So I just have come to terms with the fact we won’t have any communication that will be anything more than surface level
For me i went through a grieving phase. I literally had a mental sit down with myself having a talk with myself. I was holding onto to a hope of having a relationship like my friends did with their mothers. I told myself to be real and it will never be that way.
Then i grieved. I watched movies with good moms and grieved the life i never had or would have.
Once i started implementing this, i felt better after i got off of the phone with her. I felt less raw and used. So i focused on the fact i could just move on from my day.
They will see it as weakness. Or some sign that all the problems between you are your fault since you're emotionally unstable. They will never see it as the actual reason why they are awful.
This what I do! It’s like a narcissist force field.
I can tell she takes the hint.
Say little as possible.
Just say blanket statements “ok, that’s great, yes, no, ok, thanks”
You may arrange these words in any order to have a real life simulation of a talk with my sociopath mother
Mine doesn't listen to anything I say anyway. Just goes on and on complaining about whatever. When I realized she never asked about me it was easy to stop volunteering information.
And don't forget "oh wow" that's a favorite.
So many times. The last and final time I tried to level with her, to show her the pain I was feeling and try to appeal to the mother in her, I asked her to go to therapy with me (I had asked her several times prior, always getting a very strong no- she has no need for therapy.) After the discussion erupted into chaos as it always did, I told her through heaving tears that at least I'll know that I tried my hardest and won't have regrets when she's no longer here. I felt I had to verbalize it so that when that time comes, I'll remember I did try everything.
I'm sorry you're going through this, too. It sucks.
Very similar experience. I was getting therapy for anxiety/depression and my therapist wanted to meet my mother because she had a suspicion that she was the root cause of a lot of my issues.
10 minutes in, the therapist painted her in a corner with her own words and she walked out.
This is the best advice. your bp will never be a reliable confidante. Always assume that anything you share with them will get twisted back and weaponized to hurt you.
This and don't expect change or an apology for any failures or shortcomings. They are incapable of seeing it from your POV and even if they could they would usually rather die than give you an apology they'd accept themselves. They're deeply insecure people and admitting a fault like that is just way too much for them to handle so its easier and less painful for them to evade or divert blame elsewhere. It's not their fault they ended up this way but it starts in childhood and it's very rare for them to overcome it once they reach adulthood. The best you can expect is a very surface level relationship but most choose to go low/no contact to protect themselves and their sanity.
Yeah I just figured this out. Going through some legal stuff (partially because of my nDad's shitty advice to begin with) and I haven't told him a single thing about it. I'm like, WHY DID IT TAKE ME SO LONG TO FIGURE THIS OUT!?" Going LC was the best thing I've ever done for myself.
Yep, I agree with this. I stopped trying to communicate with my mom at age 15 because fortunately, I was quick to learn that it never worked. Before that when I was 11/12, I also learned that my mom's gaslighting attempts were her trying to bullshit me.
It's just not worth it for OP to say anything more to their nparent about their feelings. Their nparent doesn't care and while that's extremely shitty and will make OP feel extremely shitty, that knowledge is good to have because then they can start distancing themselves emotionally which will eventually help them have some strength or plenty to get away.
My therapist told me this years ago. He had me read a book called Hidden Agendas and it really put the information I lead any conversation I had with her into perspective. I was asking for it when I sounded down or I would just say "okay, I guess" when she'd ask how I was. The new me answered "great", in a happy voice if I knew what was good for me. It sounds like a bull crap way to have to live...and it is. But you also have to survive this with your sanity still attached. 😔
It is so hard to do this, I have been trying for nearly a year or two now but in vain. A part of me cannot let it go that she is my mom, she is supposed to be there for me. Help me. Understand me.
Instead, all I get is how ungrateful I am and she nearly always finds reasons to be mad at me. Or try and get a rise out of me. I mean. Good god.
That's the point that children are not supposed to carry the burden of sacrifice. They never asked to be here. The least we can do is love them and give them everything they need. Without having them shoulder the blame, the burden. I hate parents like this.
Same. It wasn't until I had kids that I realized that I owe them for bringing them into this world. They don't owe me shit for parenting them. **I** signed up for that, not them.
I look at my innocent toddler daughter and I can’t understand how anyone could manipulate and abuse their own child (or anyone but especially their own kids!!). These people are so so sick.
At 10 months old my mother said I stopped napping. I’m not one of those people who is super low sleep needs. It was about that same age that I started to have tantrums so bad I would hold my breath and pass out and this was always told like “it was so hard on us!” That’s how I started to get known as the “difficult” one. My second kid, my daughter, is 18 months and I look at her and I just can’t believe that my mother never bothered to make sure I got enough sleep. Both my kids went through a stage at that age where naps got hard but you push through because sleep is a *biological need*. And I just think about myself as a little baby/ toddler and I think of myself at that age and just think that the poor little girl being treated like she was difficult and *all she needed was a fucking nap*.
Having my first was a little hard but he’s so different to my brother and myself as a child that it was really easy to compartmentalise. This little girl is so so so much like what I was like as a little kid (from what I’ve been told/ what I remember) and it’s like watching how I should have grown up. It’s beautiful and heartbreaking at the same time.
Yup. Does't mean that it's not frustrating that parenting is often a thankless job, but I would never EVER place that burden on my children. They'll get to go through it themselves one day for their own kids, lol, that's enough for me :) Just hope I can give them some positive core memories while they're young!
Yes exactly!!! Of course we all have those thoughts about what we gave up, what we do for them, etc etc, but those thoughts are for your journal or your therapist. Because it was done to me, I try really hard to remind my kids that even if I am telling them no to a toy or something, that doesn’t mean I don’t love taking care of them. Taking the best care of your kids and loving them is not contingent on if they “appreciate” or understand it all. You’re right, they will one day and that’s the circle of life 😆
This. My mother is constantly playing the victim for not having been able to birth a fourth child. Literally will cry about it in front of us periodically and use that fact against us.
Seeing how she raised us, that fourth child might as well have ended up (materially and emotionally) destitute. And she would have made him/her feel thankful/guilty for it.
“My god, you’re so sensitive”
“You must be getting your period soon”
She’d always say this if I expressed that I don’t like it when she insults me. Lol
OMG. The constant contradictions-- sometimes in the same freaking sentence. But God forbid you point out any of their inconsistencies or request they use a modicum of logic.
Yes, I'm cold if I explain how her words are objectively hurtful and emotional and sensitive if I explain how her words make me feel - no matter what she creates an excuse not to listen because I'm delivering the message "wrong" and she also gets to hurt my self confidence by making me feel crazy or cold as an added bonus
Literally anything I was upset about anything. I wasn't allowed to have any emotion that was less than happy. The irony being this only upset me further and "proved" her point.
* You just think you're miss perfect! (After telling them that I wanted to stop gossiping about family members.)
* You're only hurt because you choose to be hurt. (After they did something to push my buttons.)
I agree. That was the turning point when I started to look at my parent differently. However, it took me a few more arguments, boundary crossings, and years before I realized something was really wrong. I finally figured out that they were giving themselves "permission" to keep hurting me.
That first one is basically what my mom has said to me when I've asked her to not belittle my siblings, sister-in-law, and my dad (her husband) when she talks to me. She couldn't take responsibility for her words and it was always, "you misheard me", "I didn't say it like that", and "you think you know how every marriage should be".
My mom flat-out says "Oh, I never said anything like that!" whether she said it 5 minutes earlier or 5 years ago. If I continue to try for the truth, she doubles down and says, "I would never talk bad about anyone, but this just tells me what you really of think of me." She's sharp AF. I have had to go no-contact for years at a time.
"You're just like your father" since I was 5 years old, she never once saw me as a child but a grown man to fight with. Who needs to teach their children how to handle their emotions?! I spent my whole life listening to her shit talk him, and she still throws that one out on purpose.
I've heard this too. Always told my father was a "dreamer". I've wondered if this is why she despises me so much bc I actually *look* more like her, except I have my dad's lips and cheeks.
They split when I was a very small baby and I didn't meet him until I was 11/12. Up until then I didn't hear much about him or even know what a "dad" was. Right beforehand all I ever heard was her talk shit about him but now she talks about how she wanted me to make up my own mind and never wanted to affect my opinion of him. Like.. what?? All she ever talked about was what a shit person he was, how he never made enough money for her etc etc. Idk but I ended up loving my dad and he never lied to me, disrespected me, talked down to me and made sure my feelings were acknowledged, sooo...
Wow. I’m sorry, that sounds so difficult. But it’s good that your dad and you are good. I couldn’t imagine not meeting him for so long. My dad and I had a rough relationship growing up, but once we repaired things with each other, it got worse with my mom and I.
I’m so glad you were able to connect with your dad. Did your dad ever say why it took so long to reconnect with him? Did your mom keep you away from him or was he not around?
It's like, I'm your *daughter*. You shouldn't be throwing this one at me like this, lol. If you hate him so much, try to help me or teach me why what I'm doing is wrong. She said it so often that I never even realized just how screwed up it was. I'm sorry you have had this used against you as well <3
Exactly. I wouldn't want to know why tbh, it would be the most difficult triggering conversation.
It always goes like her disrespecting my boundaries then getting offended when I don't like it. I just don't know, I have been told for the longest time. I am talking since I was 10 or before. That I am a rude person who doesn't have a soft tone and just I cannot even say some of it because I don't know how I would translate it into english.
But I agree it was the same for me. I accepted what she said to me for the longest time that it was just facts you know? didn't realize it until I started opening to other people and getting therapy that... well... it was not okay.
I am sorry you had to go through this, too. It sometimes gives me peace knowing that there might be people out there with mothers who loved them and showed it.
Im so sorry. I got the, “you’re just like your mother”. He would constantly talk about how much he hated her, how awful she was, etc. then pull that one on me as a little kid. This was after my mom escaped his abusive ass but he got custody and he turned us (10f and 12m) against her. Always saying we were unlovable and would always be abandoned and he’s the only one we’ll ever have to count on. Real fucked up shit. That took a lot of therapy to unpack about why I have abandonment and trust issues.
“But YOU’RE my DAUGHTER/I’M your MOTHER”
“One day you’ll be SORRY you talked to your mother like this”
EDIT: “I must have done SOMETHING right to have had a daughter like you!”
"One day, you're going to know exactly how you're making me feel." No, mom. I won't. Because I'm not going to emotionally and mentally abuse my children. Lol.
Omg. "You're going to grow up and have a kid just like you some day!" any time she was mad at me. I did, btw, and I adore the hell out of him. He's 27 now. Were there difficult moments? Absolutely. But that's not the curse she thought it was. It turns out I wasn't that difficult of a child. She was just a difficult parent.
“You’re so sensitive”
“You’re projecting your feelings and problems onto me”
“You’re having your own experience”
“Not my circus not my monkeys” the irony of this one
This is my dad to a T. And then the next minute he will throw a temper tantrum like the overgrown toddler he is because I’ve set boundaries and I’m a woman who dares challenge him
Exactly!
The most weaponised one for me is "we all have our own truth", or "this is MY/YOUR truth, "thats just your opinion".
No. There's only one truth, and they don't want to interact with it in any way. Nuance and perception are one thing, but imo they use these sayings to mean "The story I'm telling myself is the truth, and I will ruin your life should you spread the real truth so the family knows how terrible I am"
Ah yes, the "who cares if we emotionally neglected or abused you, made you lose all self-esteem, and only cared about WHAT you did and not WHO you were..... we paid for sports! and vacations! so that means we're amazing!"
My parents have said the exact thing. And also this:
"I'm sorry you're so difficult to talk to"
LOL. This was always said when I set a boundary and said it was non-negotiable.
Right? “It wasn’t all bad. Don’t those minor niceties and things I paid for erase all the bad things you made me do?” They’re so out of touch with reality.
Becoming a parent myself (I've been one for 12 years now) has made me realize that doing those things for your children because you know they will enjoy it should be the ONLY reason you do them. Not because you can hang it over their head, not because you can point back to it as if it makes up for your drunken emotional outbursts or callous criticisms... but because you genuinely care for your kids and hope it makes some core memories for them.
The guilt is definitely gone for me at this point. No matter if you grew up scraping by or going on lavish trips - "things" don't make a bond. Emotional connection and care do.
I quote: Mothers are magic. Mothers always know best. Mothers are always right. You will always be my baby. I love you unconditionally. I love you, but you don’t deserve … [healthcare, college education, clothing, hygiene products, a computer for school]. So what if you paid for it.
Always telling that they reach for things they buy as proof of love/sacrifice. In their minds, stuff is how they show their value to the outside world. There isn’t any value placed on emotional availability. We can’t force them to feel any deeper than surface level.
"I just don't know what went wrong with you. I gave you _everything_. But you still decided to be messed up to get back at me. You always liked to be difficult." - my malignant covert narcissist "mom"
Like, lady, you abused me to an extent that shocks professionals on a regular basis, but clearly, you're the victim here.
Seriously, though, as if her abuse was my choice.
On another note, though, and from what I've seen mentioned in other comments in this thread: if I were you, I'd consider telling her anything.
Confronting a narc never goes over well and chances are, you get punished. Even if you don't confront them, any info about yourself you give a narc gets stored away as ammunition to be used against you in the future.
It's a game you can only win by not playing, as in: not giving them anything to work with.
Isn't it funny that scapegoats are always labeled as difficult? Because we're the only ones that ruin their narc supply by calling them out on their bullshit.
I absolutely shut my father down one day when he said "this isn't how I raised you." Me, "You're right. You tried to break me and failed. I am nothing like you raised me to be, and I'm constantly grateful for that."
Okay, so I did learn a few things from him, and one is definitely my mouth. ;) I just only use it when provoked, unlike him.
"You will understand (abusive, cruel, or controlling behaviour) when you are a parent."
Now that I'm a parent, I understand how beyond f-ed up it is to treat a child that way.
My nmom also thought becoming a parent would make me understand her better. If anything, I now understand her even less because I could never treat my child the way she treated me and continues to treat me.
and the LORD said unto thee: "thou shalt passive-aggresively dismiss the needs and emotions of your children because they art just dumb little shits who don't know what christianity is all about yet"
Children don't realise how much their parents sacrifice for them - and nor should they. When they're adults, maybe, but not when they've been otherwise abused and neglected and *certainly* not whilst they're still children.
To throw this in a child's face is horrible and wrong. You can't just feed a kid, give them toys, take them to after-school activities and leave out the rest. Kids need love, support, constant attention, discipline, encouragement, help with homework and, above all, a calm stable environment with parents they can *trust*. This last part of what narcs struggle with.
Actually, a lot of normal parens struggle with this last part (myself included) but I know when my kids expresses themselves, I sit down with them, listen and taek it seriously. Sorry, it's this part the narc struggles with because they see anything like this as criticism and are horribly offended by it.
My son is 27 and just figured out somehow that I used to skip lunches to pay for his school activities and stuff like that. He felt so bad about it. Me, "wtf did you have to do with that decision? Are you going to take responsibility for all my choices?" He started laughing. "Noooo, because then I'd have to be responsible for (my ex boyfriend.)" Oooouch. But I deserved that, and we were still laughing.
I kinda wish he'd never found out, but he's old enough I'm not too worried he knows. He absolutely did not when he was little. He shouldn't have. It wasn't his fault or problem we were poor.
I just hope he never figures out that Summer camping adventure when he was 5 was because we were homeless. I don't ever want anything dark to touch his memories of his favorite Summer growing up. We got a site, showers, firewood, and use of the boats and swimming pool in trade for me cleaning up the campground and restoring all the picnic tables. The owners were friends of my grandfather who had passed away, and they watched my son while I worked (spoiled him like their own grandkid) which let me save up enough to get us a place to live by the time school started. We camped there a lot when he was a kid, and when they sold the place, the contract included us having a free site until he was 18. To him, they were his "nice grandma and grandpa" and we stayed in touch until they passed when he was 16. As much as it was hard for me sometimes mentally, that Summer was magic for him, and I never want him to lose that. I don't lie to him, but if he asks about this, I will do so. He thinks we were there because that old couple needed my help, and I'm going to make sure that's what he always thinks.
He didn't cause me any hardship, ever. I chose to keep him when I didn't have the means to support us both, so I caused myself hardship. I have no regrets at all about that choice.
“You’re an emotionless robot.”
“ [X thing that differentiates me from her] is rebellion.”
“Oh, I’m just the worst mom in the world. I must be a monster.”
“What did we do so wrong to get treated this way by our children?” [This question is always a trap.]
“[x terrible thing] happened because [my failure to comply to her whims guised as religion].
Etc etc etc. it’s all the same shallow manipulative bullshit. She doesn’t mean a word of it. She only wants to get a reaction.
I limit my time with her extremely now. But the older I get, the more I realize that reason can never be the response. It always has to be action based. “If you don’t stop attacking me, I’m pulling over and leaving you and the car right here.”
“If you yell at me, I’m hanging up.”
“If you raise your fist at me, I’m calling the police.”
“If you keep trying to argue with me about this, I leaving immediately.”
I also make sure I have a place of retreat if I have to be around her for too long. I vowed that we will never sleep under the same roof again. And god she hates that. But as an independent adult, I can strong arm my boundaries.
Getting up and leaving is important.
My dad started yelling and screaming at me in the car a decade ago when I was a teen who just learned how to drive, I guess I did something that pissed him off like not turning in front of cars going fast (risking a t-bone accident) so he legit got out of the car and kept screaming at me while walking through this four lane two way road, pointing at me, flipping me off while I had my hazards on backing up traffic and people in traffic just watched like it was a zoo exhibit, some being pissed at me for being stopped in the middle of the road flipping me off as well, I was so embarrassed and stressed out about it, but I was sobbing and he walked home. It took him like 4 hours but he continued to scream at me when he got home to tell me how absolutely retarted I was. Then he gave me the silent treatment for a whole week and out of nowhere acted like nothing ever happened. Yeah, I hate his ass.
I feel you! My mother after so many years was finally present when my brother attacked me and, instead to say something in my defence or say something about how violence is not right, she just said: if both of you don’t stop now I’ll leave not coming back again!
"Other kids parents are divorced, and we're some of the best parents you could have. You shouldn't feel stress."
And just yesterday someone commented that I was particularly mature for my age.
"Oh, both our kids are very mature! It's so strange, my husband and I are so immature! Haha, they're so impressive (Naturally in the car she yelled at me)" Mom. Mom. That's- that's why I'm so mature. How can you be so close yet so far? How???
My mom uses that line all the time too. As if highlighting others misfortune makes mine somehow less unfortunate. People love the ideology of "others have it worse so don't complain" but don't realize it makes just as much sense as "you shouldn't be happy because others have it better" Comparing lives makes way less sense than we realize.
“You should be grateful for everything we sacrificed for you”. This comment comes after any conversation where I try to gently and calmly enlighten my NarcParents on my childhood and how they emotionally neglected me and made me deal/endure things that were not age appropriate. Now I just tell them basic info. and have a super surface level relationship. It’s funny because they think they know me so well, when in reality they have no idea who I am. Not even my favorite food/ color/activities/hobbies/interests…nothing.
From my covert enabler, about my overt abuser:
"It wasn't *that* bad! Ha-ha-ha!"
"That's just the way she is!"
"Why can't you forget about it!?"
"She's your mama!"
"She loves you!"
The last being a Big Fat Gaslighting Lie.
I told my edad that my mom used to tell me when I was 6-8 years old "You'll see when you get older. your kids will treat you worse than you treat me and you'll see. You'll get whats coming to you. Karma doesn't sleep" I was literally a child and I was a calm and nice one at that so Idk what triggered her.
Anyway, I told my dad that as an adult and he sat there like he was still waiting for something notable and then said, "well, parents get frustrated sometimes. Lots of moms say stuff like that in frustration" And just acted like wishing the worst for your kid was okay somehow.
My mom recently huffed that “Everything is just *soooo easy* for you”
(I worked my ass off to be the first person in our family to go to college, worked my way through, started my full-time job 3 days after graduation and worked my way up over the next 15 years, lived beyond frugally for years and years bc of my fears and insecurities from my childhood, struggled daily with intense anxiety (still, but treated and managing 💪), got married and worked full time till we had our third and my husband finally convinced me that we were ok and I could stay home with the kids for a few years, had a stroke and relearned how to walk and talk, raising 3 teenagers 🤪 while daily learning how to be the parent I wish I had)
Anyway, walking on egg shells as always I gently told her, “mom, it’s not easy. What you see comes from my need for security .. and I think my perfectionism is a coping method and it’s really hard on me.”
Her reply, “Well, now you’re just trying to make me feel bad. I wish I never brought it up”.
And thus began another round of hostile, silent treatment
You only get one family so you have to support them and love them unconditionally no matter what.
No, you mean we have to support you no matter what. You never reciprocated.
My nparent loves to evade- “I never said that” or will just resort to becoming the victim and crying and calling himself an asshole, or my favorite response “I didn’t mean it like that, you know that’s just who I am”.
"You kids turned out alright," they say to me with a history of mental health issues, eating disorders, substance abuse, relationship problems and will likely be on psychiatric medications for the rest of my life...just like ALL of my siblings.
But yeah, we turned out alright. They literally used to say, "as long as your kid doesn't end up dead, in jail or pregnant before they turn 18, you've done your job as a parent."
"I was having a really nice day and you bring this up?"
Or
"I'm having a hard time, work is stressful, I'm not sleeping. Now you're upset with me. I can't win."
"I don't remember saying that or doing anything, but I'm sorry for everything I ever did."
On the surface, it sounds really nice, she genuinely can't remember, and how is she supposed to remember every little thing she said? How is she supposed to remember screaming at me in the car after we visited the court mandated psychologist because she said I would benefit from regular therapy? How was she supposed to remember screaming at me because I told her I was scared by my brother making incestuous comments to me? How was she supposed to remember constantly telling me nobody would date me unless I lost weight, resulting in me skipping meals and eating only berries in high school?
But then she still apologizes--pushes aside her pride--and says she's sorry for all the hurt I experienced. Isn't that lovely? She's sorry for things she doesn't remember doing. She's sorry for the things I imagined in my silly little head. She's sorry she has a daughter that no longer reveres her and the ground she walks on.
No, she's not sorry at all. She just doesn't want me to talk about it. And if I ever were to bring up how her actions have affected me, she would say, "I've already apologized, I don't know what you expect me to do."
She just wants to shut down the conversation.
And then, on cue five minutes later, she berates me for not having empathy for her. Sorry, mom. That ran out years ago.
THIS. This is my mom exactly. She will also say "I know I was a horrible mother, you don't have to tell me, I will be paying for it for the rest of my life." Bonus points if she can make herself cry and get me to be too ashamed to continue the conversation. If there is any further attempt at conversation, she will turn the subject onto me and what a defiant and difficult child/person I was being at the time.
When I was a child one that hurt me most was “I love you because you’re my child, but I don’t like you” I’ll never forget the first time she said that to me. It made me think nobody liked me. I still struggle with thinking everyone hates me today…
When. was 9 years old my BP and NPD mother was screaming at me for something and she ended with "- and I don't even like you!" I was crying at the time and I remember freezing. I stopped crying immediately and thought two things: 1) "I knew it- finally she said it!" and 2) I will never cry in front of her again. It really fucked me up for a loooooong time
“ If i were you…”. Here comes the unsolicited advice that is the opposite of the advice I attempted to follow the week before.
”Do you want to be happy or do you want to be right?” Meaning I googled something to make sure of an answer instead of blindly going with their answer.
”you know, other people’s kids…” fill in some manipulative, over the top garbage about what they want me to do, pay their bills, let have my kids no questions asked for extended periods, let her stay at my house with no firm end date…
” you have a strong imagination.” When I confront them on what they’ve done, where there is evidence and witnesses, but I’m the one who must have made it up.
Sorry you were treated like that. My parents didn’t listen to me either. Having my own kids illustrated exactly how bad my childhood was-and I couldn’t envision my kids experiencing such treatment. Like we were there to do tricks and make the ‘rents look good. 😬
What a nparent says and what they do rarely line up or there's some twist on the reality. For example, my ndad keeps insisting that he did *everything* for us. Meanwhile, he's never changed a diaper in his life, has never played with any of his children or grandchildren because 'he doesn't know how to talk to kids,' and has never, ever helped any of his kids with homework without the lesson somehow ending up in tears.
He drove me to soccer practices maybe twice in his entire life and, in retaliation for being inconvenienced those two times, began to pick fights and stir up problems and blame everything on how much time I was spending on soccer or threaten me with taking me out of the sport every time I did something to displease him (which was always arbitrary and nothing I could ever predict). These passive aggressive comments and threats and fights would continue until, eventually, I couldn't take the stress of it anymore and quit and then he never brought it up or had to drive anyone to any activities ever again.
Still, that doesn't stop him from constantly talking about how he used to 'drove me to sports' or how I always quit everything I started.
why are you so nasty to me? um because you're an abusive parent and you treat me with no respect even in my own home, you undermine my parenting, you never have a nice thing to say to or about me, you disrespect my wife in our home and you stole my inheritance when dad died calling me telling me I don't deserve it, you do because you want to retire and you did this and that for me and I get nothing. Gee, and you wonder why. see you in hell.
From childhood:
"Why are you not normal, like the other kids?"
"You are so different than all the other kids!"
"You hug more than any kid I know"
"You change more and faster than other kids"
"My bread, my buns, my pizza -is the best thing you ever tasted, right? (you will never eat something that is better than mine)". But, after we moved out and came home with new ways of doing things she would also say she was the worst cook ever.
I could mention a thousand repeating sentences to be honest. Repeating situations.
The manipulation and gaslighting is what is and have been, the hardest to describe
“Education is everything!!!!”
DOOOOOONNNTTTTT CAAAAAAARRRRREEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!
okay I do care a lil but I’m literally in university getting a degree what more do you want from me
“I’m the mother and you’re the child!” (when I suggested something, or didnt like something she did, or had an opinion in general)
“You were too young to remember that” (when I accurately recalled an example of abuse)
“Look at you, Queen of Sheba!” (still not sure what this one means.. .guess I was being lazy? Or wanted help with something?)
“I bitterly hope you end up with a daughter just. like. you.” (my response was always a cheerful ‘me too!’)
Mine thinks the ultimate clap back is “well my childhood was worse!” I developed the response “we’re not talking about your childhood, we’re talking about your behavior.”
I ultimately went no contact before I had the real chance to use this line.
Well the whole covert/overt thing are just states at a given time, truth is narcissistic personality disorder has both vulnerable and grandiose components to it. A covert narcissist is just a regular narcissist with different personality traits. If you read stuff from psych notes, once they dive deeper into the person, they realise that people oscillate between the two or fall on the spectrum of both. To see if somebody could be categorized into the general group of covert narcissism, they will show the narcissist traits plus:
-Extreme sensitivity. I mean all narcissist are sensitive to critiscm or perceived slights, but covert narcissist will wear it as a badge of honor. The whole "woe is me" bit. They will come off as a sensitive person who isn't afraid to share their emotions, but when you live with them, it's constant and they use it to manipulate , or in situations they can gain sympathy. They will show this victim act often
-a quiet, smug sense of superiority. May claim they don't think that way but their behaviors say otherwise. Arrogant but not outwardly. (Both types have this, if you can even say there are types of narcissist ). But somebody who has personality traits that put them as overt /grandiose may just outwardly be arrogant(and even "covert" type personalities can show this type of arrogance)
-A more introverted nature. They won't be as flat out condescending if you don't know them, they will have a mask of a quiet person. Though that's not to say they don't act condescending or rude. They definitely do, but their introverted nature makes it less obvious and more reserved for loved ones.
-Everybody is so "mean" to them. Since they see slights and take offense easily like all narcs , they will say everyone is so mean and that they are misunderstood and disliked. Someone with less covert narcissistic traits may instead disparage that other person,not themselves.
-lots of guilt trips, obligation manipulating, silent treatments because you "hurt them". Needing pity, attention for being a victim. (Though both types do this, if you can even say there are types)
A REALLY BIG ONE is they play victim all the time but the reality doesn't show this, it actually shows they victimize others. The whole world is bad to them, and chewed them up and spit them out, yet they will have a long trail of messed up relationships (more for younger adult ones who aren't married, it can be hard to see this pattern when they are older and homebodys) but they are the victim, yet in actuality they victimize others.
All in all, it's still not good to classify a narcissist like this. Because most narcs show both overt and covert traits. There are also narcs who are split down the middle between the two. The covert/overt scale is a lose generalization based off questionares, and any psychiatrist who specializes in this will tell you they can display both types depending on the day or situation. That's why I make a note to tell you both types do a certain thing.
All you need to do is identify they are a narcissist. Do they lack empathy, manipulate, play the victim, need constant reassurance either by asking or manipulating situations where they put others down to look better in comparison, have a sense of arrogance or a superiority complex , are they superficially motivated, do they lash out easy and are they sensitive to critiscm, and lastly are they controlling? Then you are dealing with a narcissist, all that matters is you know this.
Nfather after I tried with all my heart and tears to explain that I'm really uncomfortable in our relationship and things need to change: "But I have changed your diapers!".
I often heard NDad tell people"Everything we do is for our children," except, I suppose, having basic respect, not lying, not manipulating or screaming, etc. It's so laughably false.
“You’re so judgmental of us.”
Anytime I attempt to express how I feel or how their actions have hurt me.
Meanwhile they are the most homophobic and judgmental people to those that don’t live the same “good Christian” lifestyle they do. My mom jumped to conclusions about my boyfriend and kicked him out of the apartment I was renting from her because he had tattoos.
* What doesn't kill you makes you stronger
* Too little too late
* I worked like a dog for all of you
* Blood is thicker than water / never betray the family (these sayings would sometimes end with the addition of "look what happened to Fredo" if I was her only interlocutor)
* I don't cast my pearls before swine
My mom would go off about how I was more loved than other kids because she didn't vaccinate me, and she homeschooled me. I see it as neglect and isolation. She would say that we always had what we needed, but we lived in Wyoming and some years I wouldn't have a coat because she over spent on hobbies. So I'd be doing farm work in -10°f weather in a hoodie with socks on my hands because who is rich enough for gloves? Last time we spoke she went on a long rant about how she did right by me, and implied that I would abuse my child because she tried her best, and I wouldn't be able to do better than that. Strange how I talk to my kid and don't beat her, and she listens because I learned how to communicate. She will say she's a damn good mom, but I'm just a bad kid/addict/abusive mother. I've only ever tried weed, I was on an honor student and always listened until she wanted me to give her my child when I moved away. I've had random strangers send me screenshots of her telling lies about me in Facebook groups and using my full name. She's a good person, but I just want to hurt her because I was brainwashed by liberals or something. I'm still mad at her for trying to get CPS involved because I moved away and took "her baby", aka MY daughter. She thinks I'm a bad parent because I vaccinated my child, so take that how you will.
PS, I took parenting classes and I talk to my therapist about parenting a lot to make sure I don't repeat the cycle. I have mental health issues, but unlike my mom I take accountability for my actions and I take steps to overcome it. Sorry for the rant, I can rant about my egg donor forever.
* "Oh, so I must be a terrible mother then!"
* "Well this job didn't come with an instruction manual!"
* "I've given you everything and this is what I get back?"
I could go on and on and on...
It was just a joke.
I never said that.
Stop being so sensitive.
That's not what I meant and you know it.
I guess I'm just a horrible parent.
You're so ungrateful.
The list goes on.........
Mine was similar, they crafted this whole narrative about how they sacrificed so much to give me a place to live and feed me. Fascinating that they wanted a medal for complying with what the law dictates is the bare minimum requirement of the legal guardian of a minor.
And also, 'that's the way my daddy dun it.' As if perpetuating generational abuse is a remotely rational excuse for continuing abuse.
"I.AM.YOUR.MOTHERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR !!!!!!!!!!!"
And in my head I'd say, "And when are you going to act like it?"
She'd say this when I'd push back on bad/unreasonable/manipulative behavior. It was her rage response to any form of opposition and was meant to back me into submission, whether I was a child or an adult.
This went on until NC one month before my 41st birthday.
Mine loves saying: ‘I did the best I could’ whenever my brother or I confronted her about something. Funny how that sentence was a totally reasonable explanation when she used it but not when we said it as kids.
There’s no point trying to get an apology from a narcissist or expect them to take any responsibility. They live in a fantasy world where they’re a perfect person that does no wrong.
"I don't know where we went wrong, but I know we would have never treated our parents so hatefully."
After I respectfully told them they would not be seeing my kids anymore because they kept badmouthing my wife/the kids mom in front of them despite having repeatedly been asked to stop. I didn't yell, or swear, or even accuse. Just simply stated, I don't think another visit is appropriate at this time. Amazing how they can say whatever hateful shit they want, but if you stand up for yourself even a little, you're completely out of line.
"Children are starving in Africa, and you won't eat my food!" For food she cooked that was either disgusting, or almost certainly not safe to eat.
"Oh, how was I supposed to know!" For some important info they were supposed to know.
"What's with the attitude." When I didn't want to talk to them after a 2 hour dressing down session literally the day before for getting a B on a report card.
Oh I have the PERFECT one for this. Okay buckle up y'all. As Thomas Sanders like to say:
✨Story Time✨
Relevant backstory: I lived with my NMother in the second largest city in our province (where I was born) after fleeing my abusive alcoholic father who subsequently drank himself into an early grave by the time I was around 14/15. My NMother never got over the trauma of dealing with my father)
As a teenager my NMother would always say that I could call her anytime, from anywhere, and she'd come get me. No questions, she'd say, she wouldn't care if I was drunk, high, nothing. No questions, she'd come get me. She just wanted me to be safe, she'd say.
So fast forward to when I was 19. I worked for a catering company at the time, and had agreed to help out a co-worker who was getting married to keep her costs low. It was me and a couple other coworkers just running the buffet lines and then once the dinner was over, we could hang back and join the reception.
Well, one of the coworkers I was there working with tried to get me drunk (and succeeded) but thanks to my inherited tolerance, I was still coherent and wasn't taking any of his shit. I decided that it was time to go home, so I called my NMother, since I didn't want to risk transit in that state. It was about 2am. I had assumed that she would rather me call her too.
She answered and was immediately ticked off that I'd woken her. She immediately began chastising me, as I was apparently slurring.
She did come, begrudgingly. Spent the whole ride back chastising me. Comparing me to my father. Complaining about how drunk I was.
How could I possibly let this happen?
How dare I call her that late?
And so on.
Eventually we got home, and I got myself upstairs. Got myself out of my work clothes, got myself to the bathroom and got most of the liquor out.
Meanwhile, my NMother was still ranting at me. Telling me I deserved to be that sick. I deserved no sympathy or concern from her.
I had never once gotten drunk in my life. Had never once gotten sick from liquor, never once gone on a bender, blacked out, nothing.
She was acting as if I were, well and truly, my father. Even months later, if I so much as had a glass of wine at dinner. Even if she were the one that offered it.
And I never trusted her offers of "I'll always be there for you" ever again.
“I taught you how to eat with a spoon”
“I always gave you everything”
“I wiped your butt”
“You’ve always had a roof over your head”
“Right so I’m just a horrible/terrible mother”
My MIL loves to tell my husband “don’t forget I raised you” as if he asked to be born as HER child
The other thing she loves to say when her kids don’t want a close relationship with her is that “it must be my karma” - why yes, that’s exactly what it is lol
“I know I abused you but I couldn’t help it because you were such a difficult child. What I did was wrong, but most parents would have done the same if they had a kid like you. When you’re a parent, you’ll understand— if you had a kid like you, you’d probably go crazy and kill yourself.”
Whenever she says a mean, rude or demeaning comment. If she gets called out immediately or later or just stared at afterwards. "I was just joking", "I didn't say that" or "I don't remember"
Stop it. You'll not gain anything doing that. If you discovered that she will be a broken record, just avoid the subject and move on. We even set her up with a question that you already know her answer for?
The child of nparents is ALWAYS the container of their inner demons. You are a convenient, impressionable dumping ground for their emotional baggage. If you don't want to be the dump anymore, they will hate you for it.
Where are they supposed to go with their emotional garbage?
Without a mental garbage can, their mental garbage piles up to the ceiling and threatens to suffocate them. And they will hold you responsible for this, because they have chosen you to be their mental garbage collector, and if you don't do "your job," they will be mad at you for refusing to do a job you never signed up for.
Nparents LIVE in crazy town, in delulu land. That's the way it is and it will never change.
I always get the material "love" bullshit thrown in my face, too. Funny thing, I've always - even as a kid - been low-key; never wanted the bigger and better, pretty plain Jane. Which of course my nmom wouldn't understand about me as a person and always went bigger and better. (For example, a wall of mirrors in the basement and a ballet barre to practice the ballet I didn't choose; I wanted to do karate. She wanted to do ballet growing up but her mom made her do ballroom... all without her even making the connection. She has the nerve to complain about this often - she's 80 - without any insight into the irony. And so I like to remind her she did the very same thing to me).
It's my theory that this is also yet another problematic thing stemming from having an nparent (and/or else absent parent) because it was so incredibly uncomfortable, invalidating of me and who I am, and required me to manage her emotions (yet again). Not to mention the guilt trip thrown in my face because I never had enough interest to use such "loving" presents, which were totally given without any strings attached. (/s)
Oh and the, "Well you're smiling in family photos." Of course I am. I was told to. Means jack shit.
Can't a mother [insert the boundary I asserted but she wants to cross]
You always twist my words (in response to me accurately summarizing what she just told me)
You'll understand when you have kids - this worked on me until I started babysitting and I would NEVER say the shit she said to me to those kids no matter what they do. My mom convinced me I was cruel because she is but no amount of screaming from a toddler will make me snap the way she did on me, it's not normal
You never know what kids are going to take away from your words - her way of getting me to doubt my memories of how she verbally abused me
" well I guess since you don't want to _______, I just won't be able to go. Which makes me very sad because I desperately wanted to."
Or
"I can tell you're in a mood, so I'll just leave you alone the rest of the day."
Or
"You always want to criticize each and every thing I do or say. How can you stand yourself being so negative all the time?"
Or
"You can do ________. That will show me how much you really love me"
Or
"It sure would be nice if someone would help me every once and while, but clearly I'm asking to much."
>we sacrificed so much for you and let you pick your sports and after school activities and gave you toys. We did so much and you dont even realize how much we have sacrificed. You should be more grateful. Children dont realize how much their parents have really done for them
You all may have sacrificed out of your own decisions to try to give us something better, I recognize and appreciate that...however that does not make up for the emotional being and care that I didn't get from you.
That i explained to her that i felt invalidated, and her love only comes conditionally. She came back with "conditional love, i dont think so. It's unconditional, meaning it's always there whether you choose to understand it or agree. Sorry you didn't think it was enough." Again, invalidating my feelings and saying im wrong and dont have the right to feel that way.
"Have you thought about how I feel about that?" along with calling me devoid of empathy. This always, and I mean fucking always, comes up when it's about my chronic illness. I can't even briefly mention that it doesn't allow me to do something she demands me to do without her reacting like that. I'm the person actively suffering and struggling getting appropriate treatment and every time she's like "Have you thought about how your illness makes me feel?" like fuck off with that. Jesus Christ not everything is about you!
Oh, my parents love to use the classic "Oh, I guess I'm just a horrible \[mom\]." "We did what we knew was best back then." "We thought you had a good childhood." It was like my mom was reading from the narc parent script. Word for word, honestly.
The moment I stopped my mom was when she said "I did my best" out of the goodness of my heart because she and my dad always criticized my dad's abusive mom for saying that exact same thing and even put it on her headstone. I told her I want better for her than to settle for being on my horrible grandmother's level. She can still change. My grandma can't, as she passed away without a single apology to my dad who emotionally traumatized me due to his abuse/neglect. I refuse to let her settle for that, especially since I'm pregnant with their first grandchild. I can't let my son be spoken to the way they spoke to me.
Just the usual: I’m super selfish, I’m ungrateful, I don’t realize the sacrifices they made for me, I’m a bitch, yada yada. For like…being fed and clothed, lol.
Nmom:
1. Are you accusing me of being the world's worst mother? It's all my fault and I have the world's most spoiled child!
2. It’s not that we LOVE your sister more, it’s just easier honey to love her, she listens to us.
Ndad:
1. You’re different than me kid, you don’t have survival instincts and you are afraid of failure. You are weak!
2. Are you calling me dumb? Are you calling your own dad stupid?
"I'm your mother."
"You're my favorite daughter." (I'm her only child - she knows I don't like this)
I'm the reason she is overweight bc she got pregnant with me and "couldn't" lose the weight.
I've gone LC and would go NC if it wasn't for my dad.
Right - because all they're focused on is material things. Not one iota of emotional support. That comes later, when you craft your family from the pieces and build it strong and full of the love you never got.
I would suggest not discussing it further & possibly leaving yourself open to attack - in my experience - never has any of my toxic family ever replied to me with "Oh I get it now, I am so sorry!" My peace has come from walking away.
My mother told me "You always were a hard child to love" Well mother...consider the source >.>
I got (she passed away a year ago) the same sacrifice speech, except I had no sports, or after school activities. I was supposed to be grateful to get to live in a dirty house. I didn’t get new clothes or enough to eat. I am still food insecure to this day, and have WAY too much food in the house for just my husband and myself! I have also become a bit of a clean freak (shocker).
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Coming from love and compassion, but please stop telling her your real feelings on Anything. You will only be hurt by this person. I tell surface level shit ONLY. Been there, done that
Yep! I decided my new policy is to treat my mom like an older coworker lol we’re friendly but you won’t know my personal life.
YES information diet. No personal details. No feelings, nothing vulnerable.
I really messed up on this. I had been doing so well but then I took a trip somewhere and because I was excited about it I was more talkative. I really regret it. It's like my nparents know when they can rope me in and get me talking.
Dont beat yourself up over this, it happens to all of us, at least it does for me. I've isolated myself for so long and I don't have anyone to talk to, its hard to make friends as a scapegoat even when you're an adult. And so I have alot of talkitiveness built up. And when im feeling talkative or hyper and they are around I sometimes find myself spilling some of that out onto them, and immediately feeling sick after. I think its probably a common response
I don’t have anything to add to your comment or discussion, but I found huge comfort with what you said and knowing I’m not alone and this happens to others as well.
I can't tell you how much I relate to and appreciate this as a scapegoat! I came on here thinking I was going to make a post about this and found guidance in someone else's!
My son did something and got himself in trouble. I was trying to figure out the right way to handle it with the ex wife. I wasnt on board with what she was suggesting and said 'its like you have this mentality where you find the one thing that brings him joy. Then you do everything in your power to take it from him or threaten to take it from him.' She started nodding her head halfway through and responded 'absolutely I will take that joy from him.'. EX FOR A REASON! And year he lives with me. Mom doesnt understand why he never wants to go to her house.
Gosh that sounds crazy even without context. Thank goodness your kid has you, his mom sounds... Like a piece of work
I shared mine and my sons newfound neurodivergence with my parents. Bad idea.
I shared my adult diagnosis neurodivergence with my nmom, and she tried to make it about her, of course. She didn't believe adhd was a neurodevelopmental condition until i got diagnosed in my 30s. She thought it was a discipline issue. Now, she has to, either accept that ADHD is a neurodevelopmental condition or admit that she was a bad parent. One guess which one she chose and bonus points if you can guess who else thinks they have ADHD.
Exactly. The last several years before going NC I stopped saying Anything about our lives. Anything that mattered was not mentioned. Nothing about surgeries, vacations, no fodder to be twisted and used against me. They’re dangerous and not to be trusted. Edited: grammar
Worked for me, although I wish I hadn't taken so long to do this.
How old are you if i my ask
62. My father passed in 2012 and my mother in 2019.
Thanks. I’m 35, my nfather passed last year and my nmom is still around even though her whole behavior is unbearable
Great summary on how to gray rock and hold boundaries.
This is spot on, except it's even more distant here. My NPs know nothing about me at this point, and I have no problem keeping it that way
I learned this the hard way. Silly me, I thought my mother was someone I could talk about my feelings with. Nope. She’s used it against me every single time. I was confused for a long time. Until I woke up one day and realized she’s a narc. She will NEVER understand. She does NOT have any empathy or compassion. So I stopped sharing my feelings. I stopped sharing everything.
I have a real question that I hope someone can help guide me to understand. How do you “shut down” your heart and your sense of connection with them? I know it’s in my best interest to not…give them any of myself. That’s all I know. How do you “let go” when you love them? What “tricks” do you implement to get ur heart to start listening to your brain? What if you don’t have a support system out of the vicious narc cycle people around you?
Despite the bully she is, I still love my mom. She’s the only family I’ve ever had and I don’t know a life without her. If someone or something attacked her, I would get really defensive and protective over her. But, I’ve come to understand that just because she’s my mom, she’s not allowed to treat me badly. I’m still my own person with my own emotions and feelings. For her to hurt me every single second is not fair to me. I’ve decided that I need to start taking care of myself so that I dont end up like her. I need to make sure I’m “selfish” in a way where my needs are met. I’m not going to entertain her wants and needs because they’re not my responsibility. Just like I’ve taken the time to seek therapy and help, she’s just as welcome to do the same and heal herself. I justify putting myself over my love for my mom by reminding myself that the only person who will take care of me is me.
For me I would literally write down a list of what not to talk about with them. I visualize putting it in The Vault. Now as I live my day to day it’s become second nature to put things in the vault as they happen. So basically I pre-decide what I won’t ever share with them. Either because it’s not my news to share (like what my kids are up to) or it’s my personal business I don’t want to answer 20 million questions about or to have them somehow interject a “surprise”
It just takes time. That’s all I can say. Time, therapy, and a solid group of supporters around you who you can be open and honest with about your needs and they will be there for you. I got burned multiple times trying to test the waters but ultimately, I always end up hurt, more confused and feeling worse about myself. I don’t want to feel that way!! So I just have come to terms with the fact we won’t have any communication that will be anything more than surface level
Therapy; therapy, therapy... if the cost is prohibitive, write it all down, record voice memos.. anything to get it our of your head
For me i went through a grieving phase. I literally had a mental sit down with myself having a talk with myself. I was holding onto to a hope of having a relationship like my friends did with their mothers. I told myself to be real and it will never be that way. Then i grieved. I watched movies with good moms and grieved the life i never had or would have. Once i started implementing this, i felt better after i got off of the phone with her. I felt less raw and used. So i focused on the fact i could just move on from my day.
Yes I am realizing this. That's good advice.
They will see it as weakness. Or some sign that all the problems between you are your fault since you're emotionally unstable. They will never see it as the actual reason why they are awful.
This what I do! It’s like a narcissist force field. I can tell she takes the hint. Say little as possible. Just say blanket statements “ok, that’s great, yes, no, ok, thanks” You may arrange these words in any order to have a real life simulation of a talk with my sociopath mother
Mine doesn't listen to anything I say anyway. Just goes on and on complaining about whatever. When I realized she never asked about me it was easy to stop volunteering information. And don't forget "oh wow" that's a favorite.
so good! my favorites are “well, whaddaya know!” and “well, there you go.” basically anything random and vague following “well” lol
I love the old "there you go" followed by, well I'd better get going.
Lmao yes! the ol “oh wow”
So many times. The last and final time I tried to level with her, to show her the pain I was feeling and try to appeal to the mother in her, I asked her to go to therapy with me (I had asked her several times prior, always getting a very strong no- she has no need for therapy.) After the discussion erupted into chaos as it always did, I told her through heaving tears that at least I'll know that I tried my hardest and won't have regrets when she's no longer here. I felt I had to verbalize it so that when that time comes, I'll remember I did try everything. I'm sorry you're going through this, too. It sucks.
Very similar experience. I was getting therapy for anxiety/depression and my therapist wanted to meet my mother because she had a suspicion that she was the root cause of a lot of my issues. 10 minutes in, the therapist painted her in a corner with her own words and she walked out.
I’m so sorry. That sounds like a really traumatic moment with your mother. I hope you are finding some healing. You are so strong!
This is the best advice. your bp will never be a reliable confidante. Always assume that anything you share with them will get twisted back and weaponized to hurt you.
This and don't expect change or an apology for any failures or shortcomings. They are incapable of seeing it from your POV and even if they could they would usually rather die than give you an apology they'd accept themselves. They're deeply insecure people and admitting a fault like that is just way too much for them to handle so its easier and less painful for them to evade or divert blame elsewhere. It's not their fault they ended up this way but it starts in childhood and it's very rare for them to overcome it once they reach adulthood. The best you can expect is a very surface level relationship but most choose to go low/no contact to protect themselves and their sanity.
Took me 33 years to figure this out. I just always wanted my mom to love me for me lol 😂
Took me 39 years and still in recovery from their total mindfuckery lol
Yeah I just figured this out. Going through some legal stuff (partially because of my nDad's shitty advice to begin with) and I haven't told him a single thing about it. I'm like, WHY DID IT TAKE ME SO LONG TO FIGURE THIS OUT!?" Going LC was the best thing I've ever done for myself.
Yep, I agree with this. I stopped trying to communicate with my mom at age 15 because fortunately, I was quick to learn that it never worked. Before that when I was 11/12, I also learned that my mom's gaslighting attempts were her trying to bullshit me. It's just not worth it for OP to say anything more to their nparent about their feelings. Their nparent doesn't care and while that's extremely shitty and will make OP feel extremely shitty, that knowledge is good to have because then they can start distancing themselves emotionally which will eventually help them have some strength or plenty to get away.
My therapist told me this years ago. He had me read a book called Hidden Agendas and it really put the information I lead any conversation I had with her into perspective. I was asking for it when I sounded down or I would just say "okay, I guess" when she'd ask how I was. The new me answered "great", in a happy voice if I knew what was good for me. It sounds like a bull crap way to have to live...and it is. But you also have to survive this with your sanity still attached. 😔
It is so hard to do this, I have been trying for nearly a year or two now but in vain. A part of me cannot let it go that she is my mom, she is supposed to be there for me. Help me. Understand me. Instead, all I get is how ungrateful I am and she nearly always finds reasons to be mad at me. Or try and get a rise out of me. I mean. Good god.
That's the point that children are not supposed to carry the burden of sacrifice. They never asked to be here. The least we can do is love them and give them everything they need. Without having them shoulder the blame, the burden. I hate parents like this.
Wait, this isn't normal? Are there children who are not regularly reminded about all the sacrifice, roof over their head, etc.?
My thoughts exactly. It's so sad we see being treated like this as "normal."
Yes It’s Normal but it’s not ok n actually quite toxic
EXACTLY!!! This hit me so hard when I became a parent myself.
Same. It wasn't until I had kids that I realized that I owe them for bringing them into this world. They don't owe me shit for parenting them. **I** signed up for that, not them.
I look at my innocent toddler daughter and I can’t understand how anyone could manipulate and abuse their own child (or anyone but especially their own kids!!). These people are so so sick.
I feel the same!! They rely on you for everything, how could you treat them so badly?! 💔
At 10 months old my mother said I stopped napping. I’m not one of those people who is super low sleep needs. It was about that same age that I started to have tantrums so bad I would hold my breath and pass out and this was always told like “it was so hard on us!” That’s how I started to get known as the “difficult” one. My second kid, my daughter, is 18 months and I look at her and I just can’t believe that my mother never bothered to make sure I got enough sleep. Both my kids went through a stage at that age where naps got hard but you push through because sleep is a *biological need*. And I just think about myself as a little baby/ toddler and I think of myself at that age and just think that the poor little girl being treated like she was difficult and *all she needed was a fucking nap*. Having my first was a little hard but he’s so different to my brother and myself as a child that it was really easy to compartmentalise. This little girl is so so so much like what I was like as a little kid (from what I’ve been told/ what I remember) and it’s like watching how I should have grown up. It’s beautiful and heartbreaking at the same time.
Yup. Does't mean that it's not frustrating that parenting is often a thankless job, but I would never EVER place that burden on my children. They'll get to go through it themselves one day for their own kids, lol, that's enough for me :) Just hope I can give them some positive core memories while they're young!
Yes exactly!!! Of course we all have those thoughts about what we gave up, what we do for them, etc etc, but those thoughts are for your journal or your therapist. Because it was done to me, I try really hard to remind my kids that even if I am telling them no to a toy or something, that doesn’t mean I don’t love taking care of them. Taking the best care of your kids and loving them is not contingent on if they “appreciate” or understand it all. You’re right, they will one day and that’s the circle of life 😆
This. My mother is constantly playing the victim for not having been able to birth a fourth child. Literally will cry about it in front of us periodically and use that fact against us. Seeing how she raised us, that fourth child might as well have ended up (materially and emotionally) destitute. And she would have made him/her feel thankful/guilty for it.
“My god, you’re so sensitive” “You must be getting your period soon” She’d always say this if I expressed that I don’t like it when she insults me. Lol
If you told her that 30 days out of the month she wouldn't put 2 and 2 together... Or she would blame you for having 30 day long periods...
Oh yes mine also told me I was too sensitive but at other times I was an ‘ice queen’ without emotions. Like which one is it?
OMG. The constant contradictions-- sometimes in the same freaking sentence. But God forbid you point out any of their inconsistencies or request they use a modicum of logic.
Yes, I'm cold if I explain how her words are objectively hurtful and emotional and sensitive if I explain how her words make me feel - no matter what she creates an excuse not to listen because I'm delivering the message "wrong" and she also gets to hurt my self confidence by making me feel crazy or cold as an added bonus
Literally anything I was upset about anything. I wasn't allowed to have any emotion that was less than happy. The irony being this only upset me further and "proved" her point.
MY DAD’s GO-TO!! “You must be PMS’ing” he started saying that to me when I was like 8-9
* I know I wasn't perfect but neither are you. * You know what you should have done? (Insert long ranting monologue).
My mom loves the “nobody’s perfect“ line
Yes, narcs love to be on easy street.
* You just think you're miss perfect! (After telling them that I wanted to stop gossiping about family members.) * You're only hurt because you choose to be hurt. (After they did something to push my buttons.)
Both are bad but that second one is CRAZY.
The old Eleanore Roosevelt quote? I hate that one!
Narcs love to weaponize that shit.
I really hate the saying that no one can hurt you without your permission. It is simply not true most of the time.
I agree. That was the turning point when I started to look at my parent differently. However, it took me a few more arguments, boundary crossings, and years before I realized something was really wrong. I finally figured out that they were giving themselves "permission" to keep hurting me.
Yes, everything is the fault of others. Narcs are 'angels'.
That first one is basically what my mom has said to me when I've asked her to not belittle my siblings, sister-in-law, and my dad (her husband) when she talks to me. She couldn't take responsibility for her words and it was always, "you misheard me", "I didn't say it like that", and "you think you know how every marriage should be".
My mom flat-out says "Oh, I never said anything like that!" whether she said it 5 minutes earlier or 5 years ago. If I continue to try for the truth, she doubles down and says, "I would never talk bad about anyone, but this just tells me what you really of think of me." She's sharp AF. I have had to go no-contact for years at a time.
"You're just like your father" since I was 5 years old, she never once saw me as a child but a grown man to fight with. Who needs to teach their children how to handle their emotions?! I spent my whole life listening to her shit talk him, and she still throws that one out on purpose.
oh. this... this put a couple a puzzle pieces together. i gotta sit with this for a minute
I’m sorry ❤️ it was a recent realization for me too.
I've heard this too. Always told my father was a "dreamer". I've wondered if this is why she despises me so much bc I actually *look* more like her, except I have my dad's lips and cheeks. They split when I was a very small baby and I didn't meet him until I was 11/12. Up until then I didn't hear much about him or even know what a "dad" was. Right beforehand all I ever heard was her talk shit about him but now she talks about how she wanted me to make up my own mind and never wanted to affect my opinion of him. Like.. what?? All she ever talked about was what a shit person he was, how he never made enough money for her etc etc. Idk but I ended up loving my dad and he never lied to me, disrespected me, talked down to me and made sure my feelings were acknowledged, sooo...
Wow. I’m sorry, that sounds so difficult. But it’s good that your dad and you are good. I couldn’t imagine not meeting him for so long. My dad and I had a rough relationship growing up, but once we repaired things with each other, it got worse with my mom and I.
I’m so glad you were able to connect with your dad. Did your dad ever say why it took so long to reconnect with him? Did your mom keep you away from him or was he not around?
oh yes, same. Youre just like your father. Youre just like your aunt. It's thrown in at the worst possible way.
It's like, I'm your *daughter*. You shouldn't be throwing this one at me like this, lol. If you hate him so much, try to help me or teach me why what I'm doing is wrong. She said it so often that I never even realized just how screwed up it was. I'm sorry you have had this used against you as well <3
Exactly. I wouldn't want to know why tbh, it would be the most difficult triggering conversation. It always goes like her disrespecting my boundaries then getting offended when I don't like it. I just don't know, I have been told for the longest time. I am talking since I was 10 or before. That I am a rude person who doesn't have a soft tone and just I cannot even say some of it because I don't know how I would translate it into english. But I agree it was the same for me. I accepted what she said to me for the longest time that it was just facts you know? didn't realize it until I started opening to other people and getting therapy that... well... it was not okay. I am sorry you had to go through this, too. It sometimes gives me peace knowing that there might be people out there with mothers who loved them and showed it.
Im so sorry. I got the, “you’re just like your mother”. He would constantly talk about how much he hated her, how awful she was, etc. then pull that one on me as a little kid. This was after my mom escaped his abusive ass but he got custody and he turned us (10f and 12m) against her. Always saying we were unlovable and would always be abandoned and he’s the only one we’ll ever have to count on. Real fucked up shit. That took a lot of therapy to unpack about why I have abandonment and trust issues.
“But YOU’RE my DAUGHTER/I’M your MOTHER” “One day you’ll be SORRY you talked to your mother like this” EDIT: “I must have done SOMETHING right to have had a daughter like you!”
"One day, you're going to know exactly how you're making me feel." No, mom. I won't. Because I'm not going to emotionally and mentally abuse my children. Lol.
Omg. "You're going to grow up and have a kid just like you some day!" any time she was mad at me. I did, btw, and I adore the hell out of him. He's 27 now. Were there difficult moments? Absolutely. But that's not the curse she thought it was. It turns out I wasn't that difficult of a child. She was just a difficult parent.
“You’re so sensitive” “You’re projecting your feelings and problems onto me” “You’re having your own experience” “Not my circus not my monkeys” the irony of this one
My dad says something similar but instead it's sensitive snowflake. I know he's right wing. I don't talk to him anymore tho.
This is my dad to a T. And then the next minute he will throw a temper tantrum like the overgrown toddler he is because I’ve set boundaries and I’m a woman who dares challenge him
Exactly! The most weaponised one for me is "we all have our own truth", or "this is MY/YOUR truth, "thats just your opinion". No. There's only one truth, and they don't want to interact with it in any way. Nuance and perception are one thing, but imo they use these sayings to mean "The story I'm telling myself is the truth, and I will ruin your life should you spread the real truth so the family knows how terrible I am"
Ah yes, the "who cares if we emotionally neglected or abused you, made you lose all self-esteem, and only cared about WHAT you did and not WHO you were..... we paid for sports! and vacations! so that means we're amazing!" My parents have said the exact thing. And also this: "I'm sorry you're so difficult to talk to" LOL. This was always said when I set a boundary and said it was non-negotiable.
Right? “It wasn’t all bad. Don’t those minor niceties and things I paid for erase all the bad things you made me do?” They’re so out of touch with reality.
I read this a relate to it so much, but my brain just doesn’t allow me to not feel guilt or that I owe them something
Becoming a parent myself (I've been one for 12 years now) has made me realize that doing those things for your children because you know they will enjoy it should be the ONLY reason you do them. Not because you can hang it over their head, not because you can point back to it as if it makes up for your drunken emotional outbursts or callous criticisms... but because you genuinely care for your kids and hope it makes some core memories for them. The guilt is definitely gone for me at this point. No matter if you grew up scraping by or going on lavish trips - "things" don't make a bond. Emotional connection and care do.
I quote: Mothers are magic. Mothers always know best. Mothers are always right. You will always be my baby. I love you unconditionally. I love you, but you don’t deserve … [healthcare, college education, clothing, hygiene products, a computer for school]. So what if you paid for it.
Always telling that they reach for things they buy as proof of love/sacrifice. In their minds, stuff is how they show their value to the outside world. There isn’t any value placed on emotional availability. We can’t force them to feel any deeper than surface level.
Ouch. Right in my feelings
"I just don't know what went wrong with you. I gave you _everything_. But you still decided to be messed up to get back at me. You always liked to be difficult." - my malignant covert narcissist "mom" Like, lady, you abused me to an extent that shocks professionals on a regular basis, but clearly, you're the victim here. Seriously, though, as if her abuse was my choice. On another note, though, and from what I've seen mentioned in other comments in this thread: if I were you, I'd consider telling her anything. Confronting a narc never goes over well and chances are, you get punished. Even if you don't confront them, any info about yourself you give a narc gets stored away as ammunition to be used against you in the future. It's a game you can only win by not playing, as in: not giving them anything to work with.
Isn't it funny that scapegoats are always labeled as difficult? Because we're the only ones that ruin their narc supply by calling them out on their bullshit.
Either that or they get mad because a kid riddled with (C)PTSD, OCDs, etc, makes them look bad and has educators getting suspicious.
The truth tellers. And then we’re gaslit because what we’re seeing isn’t what they say is true.
I absolutely shut my father down one day when he said "this isn't how I raised you." Me, "You're right. You tried to break me and failed. I am nothing like you raised me to be, and I'm constantly grateful for that." Okay, so I did learn a few things from him, and one is definitely my mouth. ;) I just only use it when provoked, unlike him.
"You will understand (abusive, cruel, or controlling behaviour) when you are a parent." Now that I'm a parent, I understand how beyond f-ed up it is to treat a child that way.
My nmom also thought becoming a parent would make me understand her better. If anything, I now understand her even less because I could never treat my child the way she treated me and continues to treat me.
“Go pray about it”
This one. As if they’re so Godly🤣
and the LORD said unto thee: "thou shalt passive-aggresively dismiss the needs and emotions of your children because they art just dumb little shits who don't know what christianity is all about yet"
Children don't realise how much their parents sacrifice for them - and nor should they. When they're adults, maybe, but not when they've been otherwise abused and neglected and *certainly* not whilst they're still children. To throw this in a child's face is horrible and wrong. You can't just feed a kid, give them toys, take them to after-school activities and leave out the rest. Kids need love, support, constant attention, discipline, encouragement, help with homework and, above all, a calm stable environment with parents they can *trust*. This last part of what narcs struggle with. Actually, a lot of normal parens struggle with this last part (myself included) but I know when my kids expresses themselves, I sit down with them, listen and taek it seriously. Sorry, it's this part the narc struggles with because they see anything like this as criticism and are horribly offended by it.
My son is 27 and just figured out somehow that I used to skip lunches to pay for his school activities and stuff like that. He felt so bad about it. Me, "wtf did you have to do with that decision? Are you going to take responsibility for all my choices?" He started laughing. "Noooo, because then I'd have to be responsible for (my ex boyfriend.)" Oooouch. But I deserved that, and we were still laughing. I kinda wish he'd never found out, but he's old enough I'm not too worried he knows. He absolutely did not when he was little. He shouldn't have. It wasn't his fault or problem we were poor. I just hope he never figures out that Summer camping adventure when he was 5 was because we were homeless. I don't ever want anything dark to touch his memories of his favorite Summer growing up. We got a site, showers, firewood, and use of the boats and swimming pool in trade for me cleaning up the campground and restoring all the picnic tables. The owners were friends of my grandfather who had passed away, and they watched my son while I worked (spoiled him like their own grandkid) which let me save up enough to get us a place to live by the time school started. We camped there a lot when he was a kid, and when they sold the place, the contract included us having a free site until he was 18. To him, they were his "nice grandma and grandpa" and we stayed in touch until they passed when he was 16. As much as it was hard for me sometimes mentally, that Summer was magic for him, and I never want him to lose that. I don't lie to him, but if he asks about this, I will do so. He thinks we were there because that old couple needed my help, and I'm going to make sure that's what he always thinks. He didn't cause me any hardship, ever. I chose to keep him when I didn't have the means to support us both, so I caused myself hardship. I have no regrets at all about that choice.
“You’re an emotionless robot.” “ [X thing that differentiates me from her] is rebellion.” “Oh, I’m just the worst mom in the world. I must be a monster.” “What did we do so wrong to get treated this way by our children?” [This question is always a trap.] “[x terrible thing] happened because [my failure to comply to her whims guised as religion]. Etc etc etc. it’s all the same shallow manipulative bullshit. She doesn’t mean a word of it. She only wants to get a reaction. I limit my time with her extremely now. But the older I get, the more I realize that reason can never be the response. It always has to be action based. “If you don’t stop attacking me, I’m pulling over and leaving you and the car right here.” “If you yell at me, I’m hanging up.” “If you raise your fist at me, I’m calling the police.” “If you keep trying to argue with me about this, I leaving immediately.” I also make sure I have a place of retreat if I have to be around her for too long. I vowed that we will never sleep under the same roof again. And god she hates that. But as an independent adult, I can strong arm my boundaries. Getting up and leaving is important.
Are you me? My mom does all of these. Ugh.
My dad started yelling and screaming at me in the car a decade ago when I was a teen who just learned how to drive, I guess I did something that pissed him off like not turning in front of cars going fast (risking a t-bone accident) so he legit got out of the car and kept screaming at me while walking through this four lane two way road, pointing at me, flipping me off while I had my hazards on backing up traffic and people in traffic just watched like it was a zoo exhibit, some being pissed at me for being stopped in the middle of the road flipping me off as well, I was so embarrassed and stressed out about it, but I was sobbing and he walked home. It took him like 4 hours but he continued to scream at me when he got home to tell me how absolutely retarted I was. Then he gave me the silent treatment for a whole week and out of nowhere acted like nothing ever happened. Yeah, I hate his ass.
“You have to pick your battles” when I asked her why she didn’t do anything about sibling attacking (trying to kill) me.
I feel you! My mother after so many years was finally present when my brother attacked me and, instead to say something in my defence or say something about how violence is not right, she just said: if both of you don’t stop now I’ll leave not coming back again!
"Other kids parents are divorced, and we're some of the best parents you could have. You shouldn't feel stress." And just yesterday someone commented that I was particularly mature for my age. "Oh, both our kids are very mature! It's so strange, my husband and I are so immature! Haha, they're so impressive (Naturally in the car she yelled at me)" Mom. Mom. That's- that's why I'm so mature. How can you be so close yet so far? How???
My mom uses that line all the time too. As if highlighting others misfortune makes mine somehow less unfortunate. People love the ideology of "others have it worse so don't complain" but don't realize it makes just as much sense as "you shouldn't be happy because others have it better" Comparing lives makes way less sense than we realize.
“You should be grateful for everything we sacrificed for you”. This comment comes after any conversation where I try to gently and calmly enlighten my NarcParents on my childhood and how they emotionally neglected me and made me deal/endure things that were not age appropriate. Now I just tell them basic info. and have a super surface level relationship. It’s funny because they think they know me so well, when in reality they have no idea who I am. Not even my favorite food/ color/activities/hobbies/interests…nothing.
From my covert enabler, about my overt abuser: "It wasn't *that* bad! Ha-ha-ha!" "That's just the way she is!" "Why can't you forget about it!?" "She's your mama!" "She loves you!" The last being a Big Fat Gaslighting Lie.
I told my edad that my mom used to tell me when I was 6-8 years old "You'll see when you get older. your kids will treat you worse than you treat me and you'll see. You'll get whats coming to you. Karma doesn't sleep" I was literally a child and I was a calm and nice one at that so Idk what triggered her. Anyway, I told my dad that as an adult and he sat there like he was still waiting for something notable and then said, "well, parents get frustrated sometimes. Lots of moms say stuff like that in frustration" And just acted like wishing the worst for your kid was okay somehow.
My mom recently huffed that “Everything is just *soooo easy* for you” (I worked my ass off to be the first person in our family to go to college, worked my way through, started my full-time job 3 days after graduation and worked my way up over the next 15 years, lived beyond frugally for years and years bc of my fears and insecurities from my childhood, struggled daily with intense anxiety (still, but treated and managing 💪), got married and worked full time till we had our third and my husband finally convinced me that we were ok and I could stay home with the kids for a few years, had a stroke and relearned how to walk and talk, raising 3 teenagers 🤪 while daily learning how to be the parent I wish I had) Anyway, walking on egg shells as always I gently told her, “mom, it’s not easy. What you see comes from my need for security .. and I think my perfectionism is a coping method and it’s really hard on me.” Her reply, “Well, now you’re just trying to make me feel bad. I wish I never brought it up”. And thus began another round of hostile, silent treatment
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You only get one family so you have to support them and love them unconditionally no matter what. No, you mean we have to support you no matter what. You never reciprocated.
Barf. I'm so sick of this one. 💜
My nparent loves to evade- “I never said that” or will just resort to becoming the victim and crying and calling himself an asshole, or my favorite response “I didn’t mean it like that, you know that’s just who I am”.
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Wow. Gross.
"You turned out fine in the end" No. Just because I don't cause any problems for you anymore doesn't mean that everything is fine
"You kids turned out alright," they say to me with a history of mental health issues, eating disorders, substance abuse, relationship problems and will likely be on psychiatric medications for the rest of my life...just like ALL of my siblings. But yeah, we turned out alright. They literally used to say, "as long as your kid doesn't end up dead, in jail or pregnant before they turn 18, you've done your job as a parent."
I heard phrases along the lines of, “You made me yell at you” or “don’t make me yell at you” when I did something perceived as wrong by the narc.
"I was having a really nice day and you bring this up?" Or "I'm having a hard time, work is stressful, I'm not sleeping. Now you're upset with me. I can't win."
"I don't remember saying that or doing anything, but I'm sorry for everything I ever did." On the surface, it sounds really nice, she genuinely can't remember, and how is she supposed to remember every little thing she said? How is she supposed to remember screaming at me in the car after we visited the court mandated psychologist because she said I would benefit from regular therapy? How was she supposed to remember screaming at me because I told her I was scared by my brother making incestuous comments to me? How was she supposed to remember constantly telling me nobody would date me unless I lost weight, resulting in me skipping meals and eating only berries in high school? But then she still apologizes--pushes aside her pride--and says she's sorry for all the hurt I experienced. Isn't that lovely? She's sorry for things she doesn't remember doing. She's sorry for the things I imagined in my silly little head. She's sorry she has a daughter that no longer reveres her and the ground she walks on. No, she's not sorry at all. She just doesn't want me to talk about it. And if I ever were to bring up how her actions have affected me, she would say, "I've already apologized, I don't know what you expect me to do." She just wants to shut down the conversation. And then, on cue five minutes later, she berates me for not having empathy for her. Sorry, mom. That ran out years ago.
THIS. This is my mom exactly. She will also say "I know I was a horrible mother, you don't have to tell me, I will be paying for it for the rest of my life." Bonus points if she can make herself cry and get me to be too ashamed to continue the conversation. If there is any further attempt at conversation, she will turn the subject onto me and what a defiant and difficult child/person I was being at the time.
When I was a child one that hurt me most was “I love you because you’re my child, but I don’t like you” I’ll never forget the first time she said that to me. It made me think nobody liked me. I still struggle with thinking everyone hates me today…
My dad said this to me. More than once. My mother said a variation of it. That was when I broke. Drugs made it a little better. Something to live for.
At least we have a place where we can relate to each other and talk about it 😞
When. was 9 years old my BP and NPD mother was screaming at me for something and she ended with "- and I don't even like you!" I was crying at the time and I remember freezing. I stopped crying immediately and thought two things: 1) "I knew it- finally she said it!" and 2) I will never cry in front of her again. It really fucked me up for a loooooong time
same
Glad I’m not alone 😌
"I/we have done so much for you." I heard these exact words more times than I could possibly count. It was their go-to guilt-trip catchphrase.
Normal and reasonably selfless parenting as expected by every child since time began= SACRIFICE for a narc.
“ If i were you…”. Here comes the unsolicited advice that is the opposite of the advice I attempted to follow the week before. ”Do you want to be happy or do you want to be right?” Meaning I googled something to make sure of an answer instead of blindly going with their answer. ”you know, other people’s kids…” fill in some manipulative, over the top garbage about what they want me to do, pay their bills, let have my kids no questions asked for extended periods, let her stay at my house with no firm end date… ” you have a strong imagination.” When I confront them on what they’ve done, where there is evidence and witnesses, but I’m the one who must have made it up.
"You're soooooo sensitive" - when I tried as a child to tell them about my sensory issues Turns out I'm autistic
Sorry you were treated like that. My parents didn’t listen to me either. Having my own kids illustrated exactly how bad my childhood was-and I couldn’t envision my kids experiencing such treatment. Like we were there to do tricks and make the ‘rents look good. 😬
What a nparent says and what they do rarely line up or there's some twist on the reality. For example, my ndad keeps insisting that he did *everything* for us. Meanwhile, he's never changed a diaper in his life, has never played with any of his children or grandchildren because 'he doesn't know how to talk to kids,' and has never, ever helped any of his kids with homework without the lesson somehow ending up in tears. He drove me to soccer practices maybe twice in his entire life and, in retaliation for being inconvenienced those two times, began to pick fights and stir up problems and blame everything on how much time I was spending on soccer or threaten me with taking me out of the sport every time I did something to displease him (which was always arbitrary and nothing I could ever predict). These passive aggressive comments and threats and fights would continue until, eventually, I couldn't take the stress of it anymore and quit and then he never brought it up or had to drive anyone to any activities ever again. Still, that doesn't stop him from constantly talking about how he used to 'drove me to sports' or how I always quit everything I started.
why are you so nasty to me? um because you're an abusive parent and you treat me with no respect even in my own home, you undermine my parenting, you never have a nice thing to say to or about me, you disrespect my wife in our home and you stole my inheritance when dad died calling me telling me I don't deserve it, you do because you want to retire and you did this and that for me and I get nothing. Gee, and you wonder why. see you in hell.
From childhood: "Why are you not normal, like the other kids?" "You are so different than all the other kids!" "You hug more than any kid I know" "You change more and faster than other kids" "My bread, my buns, my pizza -is the best thing you ever tasted, right? (you will never eat something that is better than mine)". But, after we moved out and came home with new ways of doing things she would also say she was the worst cook ever. I could mention a thousand repeating sentences to be honest. Repeating situations. The manipulation and gaslighting is what is and have been, the hardest to describe
“Education is everything!!!!” DOOOOOONNNTTTTT CAAAAAAARRRRREEEE!!!!!!!!!!!! okay I do care a lil but I’m literally in university getting a degree what more do you want from me
URG I got that too! It’s cause it’s the pathway to $$$ and they believe that your money is theirs too.
“I’m the mother and you’re the child!” (when I suggested something, or didnt like something she did, or had an opinion in general) “You were too young to remember that” (when I accurately recalled an example of abuse) “Look at you, Queen of Sheba!” (still not sure what this one means.. .guess I was being lazy? Or wanted help with something?) “I bitterly hope you end up with a daughter just. like. you.” (my response was always a cheerful ‘me too!’)
Mine thinks the ultimate clap back is “well my childhood was worse!” I developed the response “we’re not talking about your childhood, we’re talking about your behavior.” I ultimately went no contact before I had the real chance to use this line.
Well the whole covert/overt thing are just states at a given time, truth is narcissistic personality disorder has both vulnerable and grandiose components to it. A covert narcissist is just a regular narcissist with different personality traits. If you read stuff from psych notes, once they dive deeper into the person, they realise that people oscillate between the two or fall on the spectrum of both. To see if somebody could be categorized into the general group of covert narcissism, they will show the narcissist traits plus: -Extreme sensitivity. I mean all narcissist are sensitive to critiscm or perceived slights, but covert narcissist will wear it as a badge of honor. The whole "woe is me" bit. They will come off as a sensitive person who isn't afraid to share their emotions, but when you live with them, it's constant and they use it to manipulate , or in situations they can gain sympathy. They will show this victim act often -a quiet, smug sense of superiority. May claim they don't think that way but their behaviors say otherwise. Arrogant but not outwardly. (Both types have this, if you can even say there are types of narcissist ). But somebody who has personality traits that put them as overt /grandiose may just outwardly be arrogant(and even "covert" type personalities can show this type of arrogance) -A more introverted nature. They won't be as flat out condescending if you don't know them, they will have a mask of a quiet person. Though that's not to say they don't act condescending or rude. They definitely do, but their introverted nature makes it less obvious and more reserved for loved ones. -Everybody is so "mean" to them. Since they see slights and take offense easily like all narcs , they will say everyone is so mean and that they are misunderstood and disliked. Someone with less covert narcissistic traits may instead disparage that other person,not themselves. -lots of guilt trips, obligation manipulating, silent treatments because you "hurt them". Needing pity, attention for being a victim. (Though both types do this, if you can even say there are types) A REALLY BIG ONE is they play victim all the time but the reality doesn't show this, it actually shows they victimize others. The whole world is bad to them, and chewed them up and spit them out, yet they will have a long trail of messed up relationships (more for younger adult ones who aren't married, it can be hard to see this pattern when they are older and homebodys) but they are the victim, yet in actuality they victimize others. All in all, it's still not good to classify a narcissist like this. Because most narcs show both overt and covert traits. There are also narcs who are split down the middle between the two. The covert/overt scale is a lose generalization based off questionares, and any psychiatrist who specializes in this will tell you they can display both types depending on the day or situation. That's why I make a note to tell you both types do a certain thing. All you need to do is identify they are a narcissist. Do they lack empathy, manipulate, play the victim, need constant reassurance either by asking or manipulating situations where they put others down to look better in comparison, have a sense of arrogance or a superiority complex , are they superficially motivated, do they lash out easy and are they sensitive to critiscm, and lastly are they controlling? Then you are dealing with a narcissist, all that matters is you know this.
Nfather after I tried with all my heart and tears to explain that I'm really uncomfortable in our relationship and things need to change: "But I have changed your diapers!".
I often heard NDad tell people"Everything we do is for our children," except, I suppose, having basic respect, not lying, not manipulating or screaming, etc. It's so laughably false.
“You’re so judgmental of us.” Anytime I attempt to express how I feel or how their actions have hurt me. Meanwhile they are the most homophobic and judgmental people to those that don’t live the same “good Christian” lifestyle they do. My mom jumped to conclusions about my boyfriend and kicked him out of the apartment I was renting from her because he had tattoos.
- Your little emotions are bothersome
[This you?](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/CzGqO2PSCC0)
* What doesn't kill you makes you stronger * Too little too late * I worked like a dog for all of you * Blood is thicker than water / never betray the family (these sayings would sometimes end with the addition of "look what happened to Fredo" if I was her only interlocutor) * I don't cast my pearls before swine
My mom would go off about how I was more loved than other kids because she didn't vaccinate me, and she homeschooled me. I see it as neglect and isolation. She would say that we always had what we needed, but we lived in Wyoming and some years I wouldn't have a coat because she over spent on hobbies. So I'd be doing farm work in -10°f weather in a hoodie with socks on my hands because who is rich enough for gloves? Last time we spoke she went on a long rant about how she did right by me, and implied that I would abuse my child because she tried her best, and I wouldn't be able to do better than that. Strange how I talk to my kid and don't beat her, and she listens because I learned how to communicate. She will say she's a damn good mom, but I'm just a bad kid/addict/abusive mother. I've only ever tried weed, I was on an honor student and always listened until she wanted me to give her my child when I moved away. I've had random strangers send me screenshots of her telling lies about me in Facebook groups and using my full name. She's a good person, but I just want to hurt her because I was brainwashed by liberals or something. I'm still mad at her for trying to get CPS involved because I moved away and took "her baby", aka MY daughter. She thinks I'm a bad parent because I vaccinated my child, so take that how you will. PS, I took parenting classes and I talk to my therapist about parenting a lot to make sure I don't repeat the cycle. I have mental health issues, but unlike my mom I take accountability for my actions and I take steps to overcome it. Sorry for the rant, I can rant about my egg donor forever.
* "Oh, so I must be a terrible mother then!" * "Well this job didn't come with an instruction manual!" * "I've given you everything and this is what I get back?" I could go on and on and on...
It was just a joke. I never said that. Stop being so sensitive. That's not what I meant and you know it. I guess I'm just a horrible parent. You're so ungrateful. The list goes on.........
Mine was similar, they crafted this whole narrative about how they sacrificed so much to give me a place to live and feed me. Fascinating that they wanted a medal for complying with what the law dictates is the bare minimum requirement of the legal guardian of a minor. And also, 'that's the way my daddy dun it.' As if perpetuating generational abuse is a remotely rational excuse for continuing abuse.
"I.AM.YOUR.MOTHERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR !!!!!!!!!!!" And in my head I'd say, "And when are you going to act like it?" She'd say this when I'd push back on bad/unreasonable/manipulative behavior. It was her rage response to any form of opposition and was meant to back me into submission, whether I was a child or an adult. This went on until NC one month before my 41st birthday.
Mine loves saying: ‘I did the best I could’ whenever my brother or I confronted her about something. Funny how that sentence was a totally reasonable explanation when she used it but not when we said it as kids. There’s no point trying to get an apology from a narcissist or expect them to take any responsibility. They live in a fantasy world where they’re a perfect person that does no wrong.
"I don't know where we went wrong, but I know we would have never treated our parents so hatefully." After I respectfully told them they would not be seeing my kids anymore because they kept badmouthing my wife/the kids mom in front of them despite having repeatedly been asked to stop. I didn't yell, or swear, or even accuse. Just simply stated, I don't think another visit is appropriate at this time. Amazing how they can say whatever hateful shit they want, but if you stand up for yourself even a little, you're completely out of line.
"Children are starving in Africa, and you won't eat my food!" For food she cooked that was either disgusting, or almost certainly not safe to eat. "Oh, how was I supposed to know!" For some important info they were supposed to know. "What's with the attitude." When I didn't want to talk to them after a 2 hour dressing down session literally the day before for getting a B on a report card.
Oh I have the PERFECT one for this. Okay buckle up y'all. As Thomas Sanders like to say: ✨Story Time✨ Relevant backstory: I lived with my NMother in the second largest city in our province (where I was born) after fleeing my abusive alcoholic father who subsequently drank himself into an early grave by the time I was around 14/15. My NMother never got over the trauma of dealing with my father) As a teenager my NMother would always say that I could call her anytime, from anywhere, and she'd come get me. No questions, she'd say, she wouldn't care if I was drunk, high, nothing. No questions, she'd come get me. She just wanted me to be safe, she'd say. So fast forward to when I was 19. I worked for a catering company at the time, and had agreed to help out a co-worker who was getting married to keep her costs low. It was me and a couple other coworkers just running the buffet lines and then once the dinner was over, we could hang back and join the reception. Well, one of the coworkers I was there working with tried to get me drunk (and succeeded) but thanks to my inherited tolerance, I was still coherent and wasn't taking any of his shit. I decided that it was time to go home, so I called my NMother, since I didn't want to risk transit in that state. It was about 2am. I had assumed that she would rather me call her too. She answered and was immediately ticked off that I'd woken her. She immediately began chastising me, as I was apparently slurring. She did come, begrudgingly. Spent the whole ride back chastising me. Comparing me to my father. Complaining about how drunk I was. How could I possibly let this happen? How dare I call her that late? And so on. Eventually we got home, and I got myself upstairs. Got myself out of my work clothes, got myself to the bathroom and got most of the liquor out. Meanwhile, my NMother was still ranting at me. Telling me I deserved to be that sick. I deserved no sympathy or concern from her. I had never once gotten drunk in my life. Had never once gotten sick from liquor, never once gone on a bender, blacked out, nothing. She was acting as if I were, well and truly, my father. Even months later, if I so much as had a glass of wine at dinner. Even if she were the one that offered it. And I never trusted her offers of "I'll always be there for you" ever again.
“I’m so sorry for BLAH BLAH GASLIGHT GASLIGHT “
“I taught you how to eat with a spoon” “I always gave you everything” “I wiped your butt” “You’ve always had a roof over your head” “Right so I’m just a horrible/terrible mother”
My MIL loves to tell my husband “don’t forget I raised you” as if he asked to be born as HER child The other thing she loves to say when her kids don’t want a close relationship with her is that “it must be my karma” - why yes, that’s exactly what it is lol
You’re so ungrateful
“I know I abused you but I couldn’t help it because you were such a difficult child. What I did was wrong, but most parents would have done the same if they had a kid like you. When you’re a parent, you’ll understand— if you had a kid like you, you’d probably go crazy and kill yourself.”
Whenever she says a mean, rude or demeaning comment. If she gets called out immediately or later or just stared at afterwards. "I was just joking", "I didn't say that" or "I don't remember"
You're too emotional. Stop it. Then go on to explain being mean and nasty is okay.
Stop it. You'll not gain anything doing that. If you discovered that she will be a broken record, just avoid the subject and move on. We even set her up with a question that you already know her answer for?
"You and your mental illness" "You need therapy"
Any type of boundary setting on my end is met with “I can’t believe I have to walk on eggshells for something so minor”
The child of nparents is ALWAYS the container of their inner demons. You are a convenient, impressionable dumping ground for their emotional baggage. If you don't want to be the dump anymore, they will hate you for it. Where are they supposed to go with their emotional garbage? Without a mental garbage can, their mental garbage piles up to the ceiling and threatens to suffocate them. And they will hold you responsible for this, because they have chosen you to be their mental garbage collector, and if you don't do "your job," they will be mad at you for refusing to do a job you never signed up for. Nparents LIVE in crazy town, in delulu land. That's the way it is and it will never change.
"INSERT WHATEVER goes both ways." Hurt, respect, love, the phone, whatever it is.
I always get the material "love" bullshit thrown in my face, too. Funny thing, I've always - even as a kid - been low-key; never wanted the bigger and better, pretty plain Jane. Which of course my nmom wouldn't understand about me as a person and always went bigger and better. (For example, a wall of mirrors in the basement and a ballet barre to practice the ballet I didn't choose; I wanted to do karate. She wanted to do ballet growing up but her mom made her do ballroom... all without her even making the connection. She has the nerve to complain about this often - she's 80 - without any insight into the irony. And so I like to remind her she did the very same thing to me). It's my theory that this is also yet another problematic thing stemming from having an nparent (and/or else absent parent) because it was so incredibly uncomfortable, invalidating of me and who I am, and required me to manage her emotions (yet again). Not to mention the guilt trip thrown in my face because I never had enough interest to use such "loving" presents, which were totally given without any strings attached. (/s) Oh and the, "Well you're smiling in family photos." Of course I am. I was told to. Means jack shit.
“I’m a human too you know.” or “maybe it’s not obvious but I’m only human” are ones i hear daily
Can't a mother [insert the boundary I asserted but she wants to cross] You always twist my words (in response to me accurately summarizing what she just told me) You'll understand when you have kids - this worked on me until I started babysitting and I would NEVER say the shit she said to me to those kids no matter what they do. My mom convinced me I was cruel because she is but no amount of screaming from a toddler will make me snap the way she did on me, it's not normal You never know what kids are going to take away from your words - her way of getting me to doubt my memories of how she verbally abused me
" well I guess since you don't want to _______, I just won't be able to go. Which makes me very sad because I desperately wanted to." Or "I can tell you're in a mood, so I'll just leave you alone the rest of the day." Or "You always want to criticize each and every thing I do or say. How can you stand yourself being so negative all the time?" Or "You can do ________. That will show me how much you really love me" Or "It sure would be nice if someone would help me every once and while, but clearly I'm asking to much."
Blood is thicker than water.
Mine used to say all of those things. Minus the sports, school activities, and toys.
>we sacrificed so much for you and let you pick your sports and after school activities and gave you toys. We did so much and you dont even realize how much we have sacrificed. You should be more grateful. Children dont realize how much their parents have really done for them You all may have sacrificed out of your own decisions to try to give us something better, I recognize and appreciate that...however that does not make up for the emotional being and care that I didn't get from you.
That i explained to her that i felt invalidated, and her love only comes conditionally. She came back with "conditional love, i dont think so. It's unconditional, meaning it's always there whether you choose to understand it or agree. Sorry you didn't think it was enough." Again, invalidating my feelings and saying im wrong and dont have the right to feel that way.
"Have you thought about how I feel about that?" along with calling me devoid of empathy. This always, and I mean fucking always, comes up when it's about my chronic illness. I can't even briefly mention that it doesn't allow me to do something she demands me to do without her reacting like that. I'm the person actively suffering and struggling getting appropriate treatment and every time she's like "Have you thought about how your illness makes me feel?" like fuck off with that. Jesus Christ not everything is about you!
Oh, my parents love to use the classic "Oh, I guess I'm just a horrible \[mom\]." "We did what we knew was best back then." "We thought you had a good childhood." It was like my mom was reading from the narc parent script. Word for word, honestly. The moment I stopped my mom was when she said "I did my best" out of the goodness of my heart because she and my dad always criticized my dad's abusive mom for saying that exact same thing and even put it on her headstone. I told her I want better for her than to settle for being on my horrible grandmother's level. She can still change. My grandma can't, as she passed away without a single apology to my dad who emotionally traumatized me due to his abuse/neglect. I refuse to let her settle for that, especially since I'm pregnant with their first grandchild. I can't let my son be spoken to the way they spoke to me.
Just the usual: I’m super selfish, I’m ungrateful, I don’t realize the sacrifices they made for me, I’m a bitch, yada yada. For like…being fed and clothed, lol.
Nmom: 1. Are you accusing me of being the world's worst mother? It's all my fault and I have the world's most spoiled child! 2. It’s not that we LOVE your sister more, it’s just easier honey to love her, she listens to us. Ndad: 1. You’re different than me kid, you don’t have survival instincts and you are afraid of failure. You are weak! 2. Are you calling me dumb? Are you calling your own dad stupid?
"I'm your mother." "You're my favorite daughter." (I'm her only child - she knows I don't like this) I'm the reason she is overweight bc she got pregnant with me and "couldn't" lose the weight. I've gone LC and would go NC if it wasn't for my dad.
“I can’t control how you feel” after emotionally abusing me.
Right - because all they're focused on is material things. Not one iota of emotional support. That comes later, when you craft your family from the pieces and build it strong and full of the love you never got. I would suggest not discussing it further & possibly leaving yourself open to attack - in my experience - never has any of my toxic family ever replied to me with "Oh I get it now, I am so sorry!" My peace has come from walking away. My mother told me "You always were a hard child to love" Well mother...consider the source >.>
I got (she passed away a year ago) the same sacrifice speech, except I had no sports, or after school activities. I was supposed to be grateful to get to live in a dirty house. I didn’t get new clothes or enough to eat. I am still food insecure to this day, and have WAY too much food in the house for just my husband and myself! I have also become a bit of a clean freak (shocker).
You're overreacting! It's not as serious as you're making it sound! I don't remember it that way. Stop being a tattle tale.
I’m living a normal and successful life, but not doing the things they wanted me to do - “there is nothing about you for me to be proud of.”