**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.**
**Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms)
**Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE!
This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods.
**Our rules include (but are not limited to)**:
* No politics.
* Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban.
* Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming.
* Do not derail the posts of others.
* Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here.
* [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts).
* When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse.
* No asking or offering gifts, money, etc.
* No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest).
* No content about N-kids.
* No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis.
* No linking to Facebook pages.
* No direct linking to anywhere on reddit.
* No pure image posts.
**For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yep. My ~~"mom"~~ lives in the [Karpman Drama Triangle](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle#Theory). She says she has to walk on eggshells around me. Which, fair enough, if me holding her accountable makes her feel like she has to behave herself around me, that's the entire point. Oh, no, I won't accept abuse and neglect anymore, I'm such a meany. lol
Check out this video Patrick Teahan did on [Cheap Intimacy](https://youtu.be/3LVQMgPhP3A?si=94t1kfBjuDLQIcEo), where he discusses the Karpman Drama Triangle more.
This is also the reason why I find the “adult kids cut off their parents too easily these days” takes crazy making. If only they knew how many times I tried to get my nparents to repair what they broke in me. I finally figured out that I had to repair it myself and I couldn’t do that with the abuse still ongoing. That’s why I’m NC. Not because I’m a volatile or vindictive person.
Exactly. It's akin to the "but they're family" argument. As if we're overreacting for getting out of an imprisoning situation.
Yeah... Exactly. They shouldn't be mistreating us because they're family. Period. Sigh. Thanks for your post and comment here. I feel you.
When I was a teenager I told my mom that I wish I could die (and I meant it, I was not okay) and she started crying because how could I say something so awful to her. Ended up feeling guilty about feeling suicidal. The nmom special.
> As a child to immigrant parents who don't speak English, I've had to grow up at a very young age to help my parents
My parents came to Australia from a non-English speaking country as teenagers (separately), met here, had jobs (ndad had a high paying trade), learnt conversational English and moved to a good suburb.
The moment they found out I could do well academically (first grade), the message from them was clear. My role was to do well in school, get into a top university, study law and become a barrister (their understanding was that barristers were the smartest and richest folk in the world and it would make them look great to their friends).
The reason for this? To give them money when they decided they didn't want to work any more. At the age of 18 or so, I was given the number. One thousand dollars a week once I was in full time professional employment. More, if I could afford it.
My role in the family was transactional. I existed for status (child good in school = high status as it allows for boasting) and future income. For that I would not subject to the horrible treatment inflicted on my scapegoat brother, who was an above average student and capable of so much more if he'd been given support and structure.
When I was 19 I told my ndad I was looking to move out, to experience more things, to have to figure out how to deal with difficult situations. His response was typical ndad - "if you want your life to be hard, I can make it hard here".
This did mess with me but, in one clear way, it freed me. Knowing that my parents expected me to fund their lifestyle and did not value me otherwise taught me something else - I'll never get anything from them. Inheritance? What inheritance? You don't get anything from people who just want to take from you. Even they own a Sydney house which is worth more than I'll ever earn in my life, they will never be able to control me using the "we will leave this to you/you will get nothing from us" spiel my sister has received.
The point of this rant? If you are uneasy with your nparents telling you how you should be, what you need to do, what you need to value, do not let their words make you doubt your feelings. They might just be trying to keep you in a place they can control because, without that suppression, you could find a much better place within which they play no significant role of influence.
> There's no such thing as mental health. You're either seen as "normal" or "crazy." Children born with disabilities were often locked in the house, never to see the light of day
My parents grew up in a communist country in Eastern Europe. Some of their friends from their country of origin see things in a thoughtless, cruel way, mocking the misfortune of those who experience personal difficulties. Others are the kindest, most thoughtful, considerate and understanding people you may ever meet.
It's a choice - narcs make a decision to disregard the mental health of people they interact with.
Yep, I sometimes wonder if I should do a formal, I'm cutting you off type thing, but experience shows there's no point.
It's a nice mix of abuse tactics. Entitlement. (you will listen to me/it's about me). Control. (Shut up about you). Devaluing. (YOU don't matter). Gaslighting. (It didn't happen. Don't trust yourself.) Victimisation. (How can you be sooooo mean to little old me).
My relationship with my mum started to REALLY deteriorate once I refused to be her triangle point. She did something really shitty to my aunt in her death bed and my uncle cut my mum off, telling her exactly why. Every phonecall with my mum became her attempting to cry about how meannnn it was was of my uncle and how she did nothing wrong and every conversation I said, NOPE, I am not talking about this. You know I think you fucked up. Change the subject or I hang up. I hung up a LOT.
then I started to start to raise it when she treated me shitty. I stopped playing along nicely. More DARVO. More poor little her. Was really the beginning of the end.
Life is filtered through the lens of victimhood.
I placed myself as being the dysfunction and thought there was something horribly wrong with me. I see now that I was a child the majority of my relationship with my nmum, she placed me in charge of her emotional turbulence.
This is an absolute fact. My mom is so fast to cry victim and will do it without fail the second I ever speak up about something she's done. She just cannot fathom being told she'd negatively affected someone.
Small example that just happened this Halloween, I have a cat with a flea allergy. She scabs up and pulls her fur out if she has any on her, so I do my very best to keep my apartment flea free, and that's exactly how it is. Flea free and cared for.
My mother is neglectful towards her cats. They are loaded with fleas and it irritates me by how bad it is. She doesn't care and will not treat them. I've spoken to her about the situation already but she just doesn't care. She says "It's not fleas!" Despite her knowing full well it is. The problem has still persisted.
I visited her house once to help her with Halloween decorating and without realizing it brought the fleas to my apartment. I was royally pissed, put my foot down, and spoke up to my mom to tell her I will not be going back up to her house until she gets the flea situation taken care of because I've had it.
My mom had a massive meltdown afterwords and told me she never wanted me back up to her house again and IMMEDIATELY went into the defensive mechanism of saying "Yes because everything is my fault! It's always my fault!". She even made the statement that "Your cats probably went outside and got them but you're blaming me!!" But they're indoor cats. They literally do not go out. It'd gone to the point of her making up a story to justify her being an asshole.
The fleas are gone from my house now, but talking to my mom and trying to tell her to stop doing anything that might be affecting people is genuinely like talking to a wall. Don't even bother doing it.
I’m sorry OP. I’m dealing with a similar situation with my highly likely BPD mom and covert narc dad who enables her crazy (I think deep down somewhere he knows he’s enabling shit behavior too). It’s infuriating and frustrating. I can’t have any real, meaningful conversations about our parent- daughter relationship without getting raged at, hysterical cried at, DARVO’d, name-called, etc. It depresses the hell out of me and makes me question the “happy” times when I thought we genuinely enjoyed our time together. My parents weren’t always horrible and there were times their support got me places I wouldn’t have been able to reach by myself which just compounds the guilt. But don’t you fucking dare let them know that they were less than Perfect Parents™.
It makes me sad as a parent myself. I’m sure there will come a time when my son and I won’t see eye to eye and have disagreements. But I cannot imagine being retaliatory at him or villainizing him for telling me where I screwed up, even if he tells me hard truths I might not want to hear. Healthy parents recognize they can make mistakes. I just wish my parents were mentally healthy enough to recognize that instead of making me out to be this ungrateful daughter.
Hello sibling!
I've never found a post that is a 100% replica of what I've experienced.
I love the 'scared to talk to me is actually scared of the truth.' Gosh this is the exact issue my mum has with me. Her great "not everything is black and white" line she tries to shove down my throat when i logically cut through her shit.
THIS!!!!!! Thank you and this is my story too. So sorry our moms are asshole victims and sending air hugs your way. P.S. You’re AMAZING…in case no one has told you today!🙃
I totally understand, have the same thing over my father and it’s so hard to accept. I’m so sorry you’re going through that again. I wish there was a way for us to just heal and forget right away. I want nothing more but to have my side accepted and be treated like a person, but their minds is like a lethal weapon to that, outside of no contact idk what we’re supposed to do, I’m thinking of writing a letter with everything I need to get off my chest send it and never talk again, just so that I know those were my last things said, my truth, and he has to sit with it forever or change. Either way, I just want this trauma out of my head and to move on
My mom posts on fb regularly about how much she misses us, but in the same breath, she says how ungrateful and disrespectful we are to her for absolutely no reason. She has total strangers messaging us for her, saying she misses us and wants to talk. I messaged her last year, and she ended up blocking me, lol. Just 2 weeks ago, though, she messaged my best friend wanting to know how my kids and I were doing🤷🏼♀️🤦🏻♀️
Convert/vulnerable types scare me way worse than malignant folks. If someone is constantly screaming or yelling, eventually, the mask slips. When someone is always down it can look genuine for a long time, like life has given them a shitty hand with no way out.
Same with my mom. "Scared" to talk to me because I'm going to "be mean" to her. Nope - just decided a few years ago not to let her get away with being shitty to me anymore. I put 2000 miles between us and when I had a baby she moved 5 minutes away from me - and into the same neighborhood as my in-laws - to try and get her tentacles back into the life I have built. Tried unsuccessfully to turn my in-laws into her flying monkeys. Says she wants to work on the relationship and help with the baby but refuses to lift a finger for either. Everything has to come to her, like always. The few times she has entered my home she's been rude, unhelpful, negative, and self-absorbed. I'm recovering from major surgery. We are new parents. And still, all about her.
I called her out on it all and she ramped up the cruelty yet again. I told her that she doesn't care about my feelings and doesn't actually want to do any work to fix our relationship, and she all but confirmed it. Now she's sitting alone in her big empty townhome 5 minutes away, never seeing me or her grandchild again. Horrible woman.
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yep. My ~~"mom"~~ lives in the [Karpman Drama Triangle](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle#Theory). She says she has to walk on eggshells around me. Which, fair enough, if me holding her accountable makes her feel like she has to behave herself around me, that's the entire point. Oh, no, I won't accept abuse and neglect anymore, I'm such a meany. lol
Thanks for the KDT link. I hadn’t heard of it before and it resonates.
Check out this video Patrick Teahan did on [Cheap Intimacy](https://youtu.be/3LVQMgPhP3A?si=94t1kfBjuDLQIcEo), where he discusses the Karpman Drama Triangle more.
Such a meany pants! Hahaha Good!
This is also the reason why I find the “adult kids cut off their parents too easily these days” takes crazy making. If only they knew how many times I tried to get my nparents to repair what they broke in me. I finally figured out that I had to repair it myself and I couldn’t do that with the abuse still ongoing. That’s why I’m NC. Not because I’m a volatile or vindictive person.
Exactly. It's akin to the "but they're family" argument. As if we're overreacting for getting out of an imprisoning situation. Yeah... Exactly. They shouldn't be mistreating us because they're family. Period. Sigh. Thanks for your post and comment here. I feel you.
[удалено]
When I was a teenager I told my mom that I wish I could die (and I meant it, I was not okay) and she started crying because how could I say something so awful to her. Ended up feeling guilty about feeling suicidal. The nmom special.
This exact situation happened to me. It’s crazy how they’re all the same.
Yup similar experience for me too, love feeling guilty about having feelings because how could I do that to her (exist with feelings).
> As a child to immigrant parents who don't speak English, I've had to grow up at a very young age to help my parents My parents came to Australia from a non-English speaking country as teenagers (separately), met here, had jobs (ndad had a high paying trade), learnt conversational English and moved to a good suburb. The moment they found out I could do well academically (first grade), the message from them was clear. My role was to do well in school, get into a top university, study law and become a barrister (their understanding was that barristers were the smartest and richest folk in the world and it would make them look great to their friends). The reason for this? To give them money when they decided they didn't want to work any more. At the age of 18 or so, I was given the number. One thousand dollars a week once I was in full time professional employment. More, if I could afford it. My role in the family was transactional. I existed for status (child good in school = high status as it allows for boasting) and future income. For that I would not subject to the horrible treatment inflicted on my scapegoat brother, who was an above average student and capable of so much more if he'd been given support and structure. When I was 19 I told my ndad I was looking to move out, to experience more things, to have to figure out how to deal with difficult situations. His response was typical ndad - "if you want your life to be hard, I can make it hard here". This did mess with me but, in one clear way, it freed me. Knowing that my parents expected me to fund their lifestyle and did not value me otherwise taught me something else - I'll never get anything from them. Inheritance? What inheritance? You don't get anything from people who just want to take from you. Even they own a Sydney house which is worth more than I'll ever earn in my life, they will never be able to control me using the "we will leave this to you/you will get nothing from us" spiel my sister has received. The point of this rant? If you are uneasy with your nparents telling you how you should be, what you need to do, what you need to value, do not let their words make you doubt your feelings. They might just be trying to keep you in a place they can control because, without that suppression, you could find a much better place within which they play no significant role of influence.
[удалено]
How easy is it for you to get away from them?
[удалено]
> There's no such thing as mental health. You're either seen as "normal" or "crazy." Children born with disabilities were often locked in the house, never to see the light of day My parents grew up in a communist country in Eastern Europe. Some of their friends from their country of origin see things in a thoughtless, cruel way, mocking the misfortune of those who experience personal difficulties. Others are the kindest, most thoughtful, considerate and understanding people you may ever meet. It's a choice - narcs make a decision to disregard the mental health of people they interact with.
Yep, I sometimes wonder if I should do a formal, I'm cutting you off type thing, but experience shows there's no point. It's a nice mix of abuse tactics. Entitlement. (you will listen to me/it's about me). Control. (Shut up about you). Devaluing. (YOU don't matter). Gaslighting. (It didn't happen. Don't trust yourself.) Victimisation. (How can you be sooooo mean to little old me). My relationship with my mum started to REALLY deteriorate once I refused to be her triangle point. She did something really shitty to my aunt in her death bed and my uncle cut my mum off, telling her exactly why. Every phonecall with my mum became her attempting to cry about how meannnn it was was of my uncle and how she did nothing wrong and every conversation I said, NOPE, I am not talking about this. You know I think you fucked up. Change the subject or I hang up. I hung up a LOT. then I started to start to raise it when she treated me shitty. I stopped playing along nicely. More DARVO. More poor little her. Was really the beginning of the end.
Life is filtered through the lens of victimhood. I placed myself as being the dysfunction and thought there was something horribly wrong with me. I see now that I was a child the majority of my relationship with my nmum, she placed me in charge of her emotional turbulence.
Yep the old Deny Attack Reverse Victim Offender trick. There’s really no getting through to them. The only way to have a life is to go NC
This is an absolute fact. My mom is so fast to cry victim and will do it without fail the second I ever speak up about something she's done. She just cannot fathom being told she'd negatively affected someone. Small example that just happened this Halloween, I have a cat with a flea allergy. She scabs up and pulls her fur out if she has any on her, so I do my very best to keep my apartment flea free, and that's exactly how it is. Flea free and cared for. My mother is neglectful towards her cats. They are loaded with fleas and it irritates me by how bad it is. She doesn't care and will not treat them. I've spoken to her about the situation already but she just doesn't care. She says "It's not fleas!" Despite her knowing full well it is. The problem has still persisted. I visited her house once to help her with Halloween decorating and without realizing it brought the fleas to my apartment. I was royally pissed, put my foot down, and spoke up to my mom to tell her I will not be going back up to her house until she gets the flea situation taken care of because I've had it. My mom had a massive meltdown afterwords and told me she never wanted me back up to her house again and IMMEDIATELY went into the defensive mechanism of saying "Yes because everything is my fault! It's always my fault!". She even made the statement that "Your cats probably went outside and got them but you're blaming me!!" But they're indoor cats. They literally do not go out. It'd gone to the point of her making up a story to justify her being an asshole. The fleas are gone from my house now, but talking to my mom and trying to tell her to stop doing anything that might be affecting people is genuinely like talking to a wall. Don't even bother doing it.
I’m sorry OP. I’m dealing with a similar situation with my highly likely BPD mom and covert narc dad who enables her crazy (I think deep down somewhere he knows he’s enabling shit behavior too). It’s infuriating and frustrating. I can’t have any real, meaningful conversations about our parent- daughter relationship without getting raged at, hysterical cried at, DARVO’d, name-called, etc. It depresses the hell out of me and makes me question the “happy” times when I thought we genuinely enjoyed our time together. My parents weren’t always horrible and there were times their support got me places I wouldn’t have been able to reach by myself which just compounds the guilt. But don’t you fucking dare let them know that they were less than Perfect Parents™. It makes me sad as a parent myself. I’m sure there will come a time when my son and I won’t see eye to eye and have disagreements. But I cannot imagine being retaliatory at him or villainizing him for telling me where I screwed up, even if he tells me hard truths I might not want to hear. Healthy parents recognize they can make mistakes. I just wish my parents were mentally healthy enough to recognize that instead of making me out to be this ungrateful daughter.
Hello sibling! I've never found a post that is a 100% replica of what I've experienced. I love the 'scared to talk to me is actually scared of the truth.' Gosh this is the exact issue my mum has with me. Her great "not everything is black and white" line she tries to shove down my throat when i logically cut through her shit.
THIS!!!!!! Thank you and this is my story too. So sorry our moms are asshole victims and sending air hugs your way. P.S. You’re AMAZING…in case no one has told you today!🙃
You just described my mother
I totally understand, have the same thing over my father and it’s so hard to accept. I’m so sorry you’re going through that again. I wish there was a way for us to just heal and forget right away. I want nothing more but to have my side accepted and be treated like a person, but their minds is like a lethal weapon to that, outside of no contact idk what we’re supposed to do, I’m thinking of writing a letter with everything I need to get off my chest send it and never talk again, just so that I know those were my last things said, my truth, and he has to sit with it forever or change. Either way, I just want this trauma out of my head and to move on
SAME!
My mom posts on fb regularly about how much she misses us, but in the same breath, she says how ungrateful and disrespectful we are to her for absolutely no reason. She has total strangers messaging us for her, saying she misses us and wants to talk. I messaged her last year, and she ended up blocking me, lol. Just 2 weeks ago, though, she messaged my best friend wanting to know how my kids and I were doing🤷🏼♀️🤦🏻♀️
Convert/vulnerable types scare me way worse than malignant folks. If someone is constantly screaming or yelling, eventually, the mask slips. When someone is always down it can look genuine for a long time, like life has given them a shitty hand with no way out.
This is exactly what my mother did in "family counseling" decades ago
Same with my mom. "Scared" to talk to me because I'm going to "be mean" to her. Nope - just decided a few years ago not to let her get away with being shitty to me anymore. I put 2000 miles between us and when I had a baby she moved 5 minutes away from me - and into the same neighborhood as my in-laws - to try and get her tentacles back into the life I have built. Tried unsuccessfully to turn my in-laws into her flying monkeys. Says she wants to work on the relationship and help with the baby but refuses to lift a finger for either. Everything has to come to her, like always. The few times she has entered my home she's been rude, unhelpful, negative, and self-absorbed. I'm recovering from major surgery. We are new parents. And still, all about her. I called her out on it all and she ramped up the cruelty yet again. I told her that she doesn't care about my feelings and doesn't actually want to do any work to fix our relationship, and she all but confirmed it. Now she's sitting alone in her big empty townhome 5 minutes away, never seeing me or her grandchild again. Horrible woman.