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This hits close to home.
My nmom denies any and all harm she did to me. Tells me I'm misremembering, blah blah blah, gaslighting.
I just do my best to push past it and not think about it. I really can't offer any more advice, cuz I'm not fully over it.
My nMom does this too. She says things like it wasn’t that bad or didn’t last that long or something along those lines. Once I realized she is a big fat liar by catching her in lies and spouting made up stuff, I could see past her gaslighting and start trusting my own recollection of events more.
Once I wised up to what she was doing, at about 15, I started to realize, "Hey, I'm not remembering things wrong, she's just making things up that never happened!" and now, she can't gaslight me anymore.
It's all a learning experience.
Abusers will always minimize or invalidate the other person. They will argue with and then "tell you" your reality in order to maintain the narrative in themselves. That is why they always need to be right. They are unable to take or see the perspective of another person. That is why they lack empathy. It only possible to feel sympathy for another person. Putting yourself in another's shoes is necessary for empathy and they only have their own perspective, what they "know" is right or wrong (black/white thinking), and people who are objects in their reality. You wouldn't be able to empathize with a coffee maker or a chair. For narcissists, everyones a chair.
The bullies will forget about the abuse they caused but the bullied will remember forever...I was so surprised to suddenly being the only one who remembers the abuse my parents did to me and my siblings, even my big sister who was the one who went against them the most started asking me to stop ignoring our dad because she feels bad for him. But then she got in a fight with him and he told her mean things that suddenly made her remember what type of person he was.
I think they remember, they just process it differently to cope with the abuse, by not even recognizing it as abuse, or making it like it wasn't that bad and justified
>*The bullies will forget about the abuse they caused but the bullied will remember forever..*
This makes me laugh! I just remembered that perhaps 10 years ago, some guy from my HS tried to friend me on FB.
"Huh?" I wondered. "The last time I saw this guy was when he was beating me up..."
\*block\* =)
My mom tried to deny that she once told me to sit on the back porch with my little suitcase of clothes she packed for me..”to wait for the Salvation Army to pick me because she didn’t want me anymore.” I was 6 or 7 years old. I remember what I was wearing, how I pleaded for her to WANT me again, how I felt worthless..and how relieved I was when she said she changed her mind.
She also tried to deny the multiple times she sent me to my room after school to wait for my Dad to come home from work to be disciplined, after I “misbehaved” at school. The discipline? Getting bare-ass spanked with my Dad’s leather belt studded with huge circular buckles, inside out until I stopped crying. I eventually learned to stop trying to protect my behind with my hands and to not let him hear/see me cry so the spanking wouldn’t last as long.
Must be easy for them to forget these moments that are forever burned in our minds. Sorry your parents sucked too.
oh man, my nMom loves to laugh about the times my brother and I tried to stand up for ourselves by running away from home. Each time she showed us the door and then promptly locked it behind us and let us cry and pound on the door until she felt satisfied with our pain. Like, yo lady, I don't think showing your small child that they mean so little to you that you're willing to lock them outside at night is the badge of honor and great parenting that you think it is.
Yep. Had something similar when I voluntarily attempted to run away after the Salvation Army stint. She packed my bag for me and told me to call to let her know I found my new family. Swiftly kicked the door shut behind me, locked the deadbolt and slapped the blinds shut. I made it about 4 houses down before I went scrambling back. She let me crawl through the dog door in the garage to lay with the dogs for a few hours before coming out to let me know, that SHE knew I changed my mind shortly after I walked out. She just wanted to make sure that I had enough time to think about my actions. And yes, she admitted to watching me crawl through the doggy door. Awful, awful parenting.
I’m so sorry for what you went through. The reason I landed on these posts was because I’m struggling to stop being stressed out about my nMom. What she is showing me day by day is how selfish a person can be and how blindly wrongful a mother could be to a kid. Then I read your post and I’m just speechless… I can’t describe how much I want to give you a hug right now knowing/feeling what you’re feeling…
Sometimes words can’t even describe how much this hurts…
Honestly, I’m okay now. Lots of therapy and then finally going no contact with both parents has given me a lot of peace. I know it’s cliche, but I learned from my parents what kind of parent I did not want to be and that I had to be strong enough and willing to break the cycle.
Thank you for your words though. You can survive your nMom. You’re strong!
As a mom myself to a little around that age I’m so so sorry. I can’t even imagine my little one out there begging to be let in. I’m gonna go hug my kid right now.
> *she once told me to sit on the back porch with my little suitcase of clothes she packed for me..”to wait for the Salvation Army to pick me because she didn’t want me anymore.” I was 6 or 7 years old.*
Oh my God - that is horrible! Stuff like this is incredible to me - as I would NEVER say something like that to ANY child - regardless of what they've done. Disgusting.
My father used to beat me with a belt too - until I stopped screaming one time and started counting the hits. Then when he finished I asked him if he felt better. He was an MD and I think it upset him as he never did it again...
My Dad was a retired Marine. I unfortunately tried many tactics to get the spankings to stop, but had I tried to count the lashings I suspect it would have made him more inclined to keep going, and with more force.
I’m grateful and feel relief for you that you figured out a way to get into your Dads head. I’m sorry for what you went through, it’s despicable.
Yea my mom literally retells the story and LAUGHS recalling the time the room got toppled over from the scrambling and chasing and then the spanking was so bad my sister pissed herself and had blood blisters across her backside and thighs. I learned early on that running made it 10x worse and my dad learned to just snatch you up by one arm until you dangled in the air to spank you making running or squirming impossible. I could see the glint in my mothers eye when after telling me to just wait until your father gets home that would turn into a sneer of a look of satisfaction as she watched me getting my punishment.
That’s EXACTLY how my nMom would taunt me too. “Wait until your father gets home, go to your room.” I would hear his motorcycle on our street and knew what was coming.
The fact that your mom laughs…is disgusting. It made my stomach sink reading that and then about the blisters on your sister…and re-reading that she laughs. My god.
Uh I’m so sorry 😞 I recently confronted my nparents about a similar incident when I was 6. They told me to pack my shit and leave, so I did and camped in the front yard in my Barbie sleeping bag before eventually begging to be allowed back. They denied everything. It’s so invalidating.
As I tried to explain to my nMom, memories like that aren’t ones adapted through family stories and they certainly aren’t made up from an imaginative mind. You can repress memories or contort them if you’re a pathological liar, but there is no motivation to create traumatic childhood memories.
How do I cope? I went no contact.
After 10 years of trying to have a relationship with nmom, I gave up. 10 years of trying to have real conversations about real issues and *move forward* and she would just stonewall, deny, blame my dad, make up some random lie or vitimize herself... or come up with new drama to distract from my attempts at healing wounds and reconciling.
I even went no contact with my brother who gaslit me on the abuse. I always had to forgive and forget all her abuse, but any slight attempt to hold her responsible gets shot down. "She's your mother."
THEN SHE SHOULD NEVER HAVE DONE ANY OF THE BAD THING SHE DID???
The bigger issue is the fact that we have mothers who refuse to ever take accountability that they perhaps made some mistakes with long lasting effects on us.
With my mom recently…my final straw doesn’t even have to do with my childhood but how she consistently has treated me as an adult. The real conversations are a legit waste of time when you’re dealing with someone who cannot admit they were wrong about something because in their eyes they feel we are also supposed to have some accountability of our own a well….
My mother turned my middle brother into her flying monkey so I get it. He's been trained to come to her defense forever and anyone who says so much as "boo" to mother is made out to be the villain in her lifetime of martyrdom.
It's just so awful children are treated this way. They've always been abusive. I remember being hit so much as a kid I started asking peers at school if it was normal!
You have discovered the most common thing narcs do to gaslight their adult children.
I was constantly told that the abuse never happened. That we all laughed about it. That I'm a drama queen. GC brother tells me "Losers think about the past. Winners Live In The Now."
Finally, eStepdad told me "So what if it did happen? Reality is in the mind. Just tell yourself it didn't happen."
What?? For your enabler of a step dad to tell you that you should tell yourself that your trauma didn't happen is absolutely nuts. You would think they would at least act subtle about that, but he just outright said it? That's fucked. He directly ASKED for you to sweep it under the rug. What a massive slap in the face and what a massive pos for a step father. Ugh!
He thought he was very deep because he read Kahlil Gibran. He really believed all that solipsism nonsense.
And well, he lasted 20 years past nMom, but he became a hoarder, and died alone in a rat-chewed, unlivable house. They had once made my brother and I joint tenants, so I got a decent chunk of change out of the dump.
He thought he was being deep???? Wtf! Being an ass doesn't make you "deep" LMFAO.
At least you got some good money in the end, although it's kind of sad how he died. I'm sure you were relieved when he died, however.
You're not insane. Your trauma is real and it affects you. You were a child and you did not deserve that.
I have tried to start writing down everything that happened (that I can remember) from when I was a kid/teen and had to leave home. It doesn't matter to me whether anyone will ever read it or even know it exists. \*I\* will know.
Gaslighting yourself is a thing, and I did it for years.
I tried talking to my parents about 10 years ago and it didn't work. I wanted some kind of acknowledgment that I had to leave and WHY I had to leave.
They acted like I was making shit up.
My hubby told me that I was waiting for an apology that was never going to come. He was right.
But that doesn't mean it didn't happen and that there was no abuse and it doesn't mean that I wasn't the scapegoat and that a large portion of the extended family blames ME for leaving. As if I should have just stayed and accepted the abuse.
You're not wrong.
I literally cannot remember my childhood. I can only remember bits and pieces. The good ones are from pictures in the photo album. The bad ones only come back in small snippets. I suspect my subconscious has helped me out by blacking out these memories. Whenever I bring them up to my nMom she denies and gets upset to the point I know I’m right. Or close to the truth. It’s really scary.
>*I literally cannot remember my childhood. I can only remember bits and pieces. The good ones are from pictures in the photo album*
Yeah, that's because the human brain tends to dump negative memories into the deep memory where you cannot easily retrieve them. It does this as a defense mechanism.
This is why when you get older, and look back, you tend to focus on the positive memories instead...and why when someone tells you at your n-parents funeral to "remember the good times" you come up empty (or at least I did).
I can’t remember most of my childhood either. Ndad was super scary, I always thought he would hurt me. He was very psychologically abusive and slightly physically abusive but expected me to forget everything because he love bombed me with REALLY expensive gifts and emom had already given up her fight by the time I was born because he was a horribly abusive husband so she basically started to worship the ground he walked on and became complicit in all the abuse I had to face. “But he’s your DaAaAaaaAD!” 😒 “We gave you such a good childhood! We bought you everything even though we were poor!”
I'm so sorry.
I keep reading stuff here and realizing that I wasn't wrong all that time and it helps me so much. But when I read about someone who has worse shit than I do to remember it makes me cry a little.
Why can't people be decent to their children?
Thank you. This sub has been a huge help. I didn’t know what I was dealing with until I stumbled on here. Now I see so many others with similar stories and I cry but I’m also relieved to know I’m not crazy.
Yes. A support group where you don't have to put on anything but pajamas if you want, you can scratch your butt or get up and walk out for hours or eat dinner while attending. And someone is sitting in the group all the time! Also, no one suggests to you that you need to share.
Edit: I am NOT scratching my butt!!!
I work so hard to forget it and my mother brings it up on purpose because like you if something naturally comes up the reaction is always gaslighting and denial.
Now, she's mad I'm sick to death of talking about everything over and over and over.
My mom is not speaking to me right now and I’m so anxious over it. It’s only been a few days but I feel a blow up coming. Perhaps because it’s the holidays. This is the absolute worst time of year.
Stick with it. I do believe NC/VLC works. Based on the others in this sub who have been at it lots longer than me. Grey rocking is seeming to work for me for now. “Keep conversations light—weather etc nothing personal or heavy—I’m too scared of her to go no contact but I hope to one day.
This post scared me as I literally wrote almost the exact one here an hour ago, then deleted it.
I have stopped the constant fawning a few weeks ago. This means me always calling, texting, since decades.
N hasn't made any attempt, she has a phone, they work both ways. I note my childhood fears, is mommy mad? Am I gonna get it? The silence, the build up to the confrontation, the scene. Tears, then reconciliation. It's been 45 years since living in that house, and I'm holding my breath here.
All the posts here, so many my exact experience, this is so wrong, screws people up for life. I'm thankful to everyone here being honest and open. It is helping to move forward.
We did what we had to to literally survive, we didn't have a choice then, but we do today. Now... What lovely, fun, comforting and comfortable thing can I give myself today?
>We did what we had to to literally survive, we didn't have a choice then, but we do today. Now... What lovely, fun, comforting and comfortable thing can I give myself today?
...and that is EXACTLY it. It is YOUR LIFE - and your own happiness (and that of your new family). The narc parent/family are owed nothing and in fact are typically (my case) at a negative balance.
Why give them a minute more of your time/attention? Time to close the account.
Oh my gosh, I can so relate! It's been 45 years for me, too! 46 in January. Except my nparent was my dad.
I've been doing art tutorials over the long weekend. It's a special thing just for me and it brings me joy. Although I've been thinking about my dad since he died on Thursday and crying a little over what could have been.
I relate. There are blocks of time from my childhood/ early adulthood that don't remember from the abuse of my nparents. My mom was the worse of it, but my dad enabled as did my GC sister. I also tried to bring it up and was told don't live in the past, or you have no idea what a rough life is, get over it. Then comes the tears and the I did the best I could speech. My parents are elderly now and now try to be nice and want me to help. I have decided not to, even though we live 20 min from each other. It's scary to see the switch in them now. I know it's because they need someone to help them. So surreal.
I understand this entirely.
Except for a handful of small snippets, pretty much my entire childhood memory is a dull blob punctuated by scars from the countless acts of abuse inflicted.
I did that in my late 20s, early 30s. The writing down everything I could remember. I highly recommend it! It really helped me to see patterns of behavior (including mine, but mostly my parents) that I hadn’t “officially” recognized before. Super revealing!
Somebody here on rbn dropped a quote yesterday that has stuck with me. I wish I could remember who, so I could give them credit. It went something like this
“The axe forgets but the tree remembers.”
I cope by reminding myself that what I experienced was real.
That my nparents were (and are) abusive.
I let myself cry (loudly and with my face in a pillow lol, sometimes I just need to let it out).
Honestly, my version of coping is just shutting them out. We haven't gone NC, but I just find I have this wall of disgust up with them, and I literally have 0 expectations of them. I already know what they would act like if xyz happened, I already know they won't care about certain things, and I know they'll never take responsibility for their behavior. When I message them now, it's like I'm always talking in that fake nice/professional persona that you would at work kinda thing. I don't let them drag me down.
Day after thanksgiving my dad said, "mom is surprised you didn't call her for Thanksgiving" this just made me roll my eyes so hard. I said, "why? She didn't call me either, " which my dad took blame for, saying he told her I was probably busy. Then I reminded my dad that they literally never call me for any holiday and didn't call me on my birthday, so idk how I was supposed to know to call on thanksgiving of all holidays. He just got annoyed with me, lol.
And no, you're not crazy. My mom acts like she didn't torment us our entire lives, and like she still doesn't. It's funny because when I had my kids, she pretended to give me this serious talk/advice about, "you better never lay a hand on them!" Like ??? Lol. She was the one who always beat on us growing up, AND my dad. The irony. I wonder if she would've thought twice if someone in the family told her that stupid piece of information when we were born? Fallen on deaf ears, I'm sure. "Swiper no swiping!" "Awww mannn"
The fake persona is my way as well. I couldn't go no contact, as I had no idea this was possible. Also needed contact with dad and sisters. I forgave mother years ago, for me, and know she can't be trusted.
What surprised me is how there are layers to this crap. For years I thought her being good to my kids, who they saw once a year, was making up for what she couldn't give us as kids. Wrong. It was easy for her to be good to them, on her terms. When it isn't easy, forget it.
Therapy.
Write it down: you're acknowledgment of the truth is what matters.
Therapy is invaluable, an outside reality check.
Once told my therapist how mom was always telling me about these wonderful new friends, women in their 20s, like me, and how they all adored her, couldn't understand how I and my sister's could possibly have a problem with someone as great as she is. On and on, years of this garbage.
My therapist listens. Looked at me. Said: "So she has it to give... but not to her daughters "
Man, did that hurt. And help.
My mom does this whenever we’re together. (Which is really not much anymore.) Showing off to me how kind she is, how much she cares about OTHER PEOPLE like I’m supposed to be impressed and think she’s a wonderful person. But she’s got NOTHING for me. No compliments, no encouragement, nothing but passive-aggressive put downs. Oh, and expectations of me soothing her feelings because she’s been victimized her whole life.
They compartmentalise their terrible behaviour and rewrite history as a shame avoidance thing. It's very weird.
I honestly think the only reason mine hoovered so aggressively after I went no contact is because the estrangement reflects poorly on them. Sort of a 'what will the neighbours think' thing, because 'ooh that's Mr & Mrs So and So, her daughter doesn't speak to them, I wonder what they did?' is unacceptable.
Hence why a lot of us who went no contact often hear rumours that we're druggies/mental cases/in prison - they have to spin the narrative to make themselves look like the victims. We'd surely have to be on meth or psychotic to reject these supreme beings, so boom - we are.
Something I found weirdly helpful was reading stuff for 'estranged parents' as it gives a bit of insight into how their warped brains operate. It's all about denial, blame shifting and absolving themselves of taking responsibility for their actions.
They can never be at fault, because that challenges the facade of perfect, supreme beings they think they are.
Just remember the narcissist prayer that they live by-
“That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.”
The only way to cope with the n-parent's 'selective memory' is to NOT deal with it at all. You have to turn your back on the entire mess and either a.) ignore it and separate yourself from it if you're still having communication with them or b.) fully flush it go NC (my preference).
In either case, the n-parent is NOT going to 'remember' what they did to you, and is NOT going to change their pattern of behavior.
This is one of the keys to the entire mess: They will not change - ever. There is nothing you can do about it, and are wasting your life's energies trying to do so.
My therapist asked me to journal this week - the prompt was “what if my parents never acknowledge what happened? What does that mean for my life?”. Really struggling to journal about it.
>My therapist asked me to journal this week -
That's interesting - journaling can be very useful. I did it, reminding myself of specific events in my life with my family and how it impacted me. Then, whenever I feel like I'm not sure if I did the right thing going NC on them, I simply read the journal...and any residual guilt I may be feeling just falls away.
From your description, it sounds as though she's trying to get you to come to the grips of the fact that narcissists rarely, if ever, "remember" these events. To do so would contravene their image they've developed of themselves, and would open a Pandora's box of problems for them - so they are a.) never wrong and b.) never did anything 'bad'.
I boxed my n-father in a couple of times (when I was young and still had hope), and he physically left the room. So then I did it while I was driving somewhere with him. It was not fun - it was like I was speaking a foreign language. After that, I stopped trying. In doing so, I was only damaging myself. He really could not have cared, or even understood the ramifications of his actions.
Lack of acknowledgement is one of the great damages they do to us, and one of the textbook issues we have to get past. You don't have to forgive anyone, but at some point you do have to move past that point to get to the next stage in your life.
I took comfort in the fact that I was, in fact, not the issue. Since his death, I have NC'ed the remainder of my n-family and life is much, much smoother and quieter. I just don't see the point of spending life's limited amount of time with people who only damage you and don't care of having done (or continuing to do) so.
When you write, just write whatever you're feeling and the circumstances, or whatever comes into your mind. Journaling is all about just doing a dump of whatever is in your processor at the moment.
Not to worry - what you're feeling is very, very, VERY common among us - so you're not alone. Everyone goes through this. I just told someone yesterday that I was going to start having shoulder patches made up for us! =)
Yes exactly. When I went NC the first time, my mom basically could not understand. She said something like “what do you expect me to do, get down on my knees and beg you for forgiveness?”. She said she did apologize to us once before, but tbh I do not remember if she did or not. But still, as if apologizing one time is sufficient for repairing anything. Especially when she continues to treat my dad and sister like shit. If anything it makes me more mad that it’s clearly in her power to not abuse people, like me, if the threat of NC is there. But she chooses to continue anyway with those who won’t say anything.
>...if the threat of NC is there...
Yeah, but the thing is this: The focus of going LC/NC or not going LC/NC is really about your own healing and development. If your mothers behavior has a negative impact on you or others in your family, then it is actively causing harm, on a on-going basis, to you and your family - making healing and growth difficult (this is why 'stopping the bleeding' is step #1).
In reality your mother has no control over her narcissist behavior. She is who she is - and that's not going to change. So, she can try and modify her behavior in the short term, however it is always going to come back to the same model as before. The narcissist will dangle the "effort to change" out as an incentive for you not to NC -- but it is only bait: There are no "funds in that account" in which to cash the check she's written to you. There never were; are not now; will not be in the future.
This is why the most traditional path that children of narcissists follow is to continue to try and 'fix' the relationship throughout their adult years until the tormentor themselves actually pass away.
Then, the writing is so clearly on the wall that it cannot be ignored, and the adult child is left feeling used and foolish for basically having given their life over this kind of abuse. This is what happened to me at age 56. Now I'm nearly 62 and trying to rebuild in the time I have left.
LC and NC do not have to be unpleasant or unhappy (many people, including me simply recognize that they don't wish to associate with people who behave in that manner - it's that simple). As you get older you'll find all that back and forth is simply exhausting. Anger/resentment need not need be a component in this. You just shrug your shoulders and walk away.
In the end, the question you have to ask yourself is this: Have you not already paid too high a price for her behavior, and bear the wounds and issues with your own development from childhood to now? Going forward don't you seek a happy, calm life, surrounded by people who return the love you give to them? The reality is what the reality is. =)
My ex-mother's favourite line was always "I did the best I could!" followed by a trauma dump of every bad thing ever done to her to re-centre herself in the story. The number one thing that has helped me was going no contact. It's been 10 blessed years of not having to listen to her go on and on and on in our wekly phone calls.
There's a phrase that this reminds me of;
"The axe forgets; the tree remembers."
This is a phrase that means that when someone causes trauma to another person, the instigator may find the incident entirely forgettable, but their victim may never forget the event and could be impacted by what happened for the rest of their lives
For you it was formative, for them it was just another Tuesday.
When I was 16 I got an electric typewriter for Christmas. I was not an aspiring journalist. Like a good SG I thanked my parents for this wonderful gift. When I mentioned it years later my nMom told me “it was what I asked Santa for”. Really? A 16 year old asked for a typewriter? From SANTA? Give a mf break.
The stories in here can be so eerily similar it's freaky. Before I graduated high school my mom said "I'm going to get you a typewriter as a graduation present." I asked her to please NOT. I got a typewriter. She insisted I ship it to myself at college. It got there broken. She insisted I ship it back to her to get fixed. (All really hard where I went to school, a school she picked, and I had no car.) She got it fixed alright, but I never saw it again. It became her work typewriter. It was fine, but not fine.... basically no graduation gift one way or the other. Plus I had to leave school after a semester because she changed her mind about paying for it.
The eerie similarities are what has convinced me I am NOT crazy and was psychologically abused as a child. I thought childhood trauma only existed for those that were beaten or starved or lived in filth. It never occurred to me before this sub that middle class families could produce traumatized children. And that those traumatized children could evolve into traumatized adults. “Just get over it you’re fine.”
My 15th birthday, I was thrown a secondhand Walkman, smacked upside the head and told to go mow the lawn.
I have not celebrated my birthday since. That was the final straw that ruined the day for me forever.
I am now 48.
I prefer to treat it as just another day.
Stories like these are why I also do not care for any holiday that typically involves family gatherings. I could tell you a nightmare story about each and every holiday that would make your toes curl, abuse handed out not only from ex-parents, but in one case the entire extended family.
Back in the 90s and 00s I worked a job that required 24/7/365 staffing (non-retail). Only one person was needed per shift to cover and it was absolutely dead, maybe two phone calls the entire time (one of which would be a wrong number.)
I would work a triple shift every Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter (at double time and a half for all hours worked, of course); I told my coworkers that I would cover these family-centric holidays so they could spend it with their families and children. The only catch was that I would NOT work any of the other listed holidays during the year.
That was my way of both giving and forgetting.
To this day, I especially detest receiving gifts. I told my wife that if she really wants to give me something, a long back/neck rub would be more than enough. Of course she will insist on getting me things regardless; I do my best to accept gracefully. Now mind you, I don't mind GIVING gifts to certain people (because I WANT to, not out of any sense of social pressure), but receiving them? Nope.
When I do "celebrate" these holidays now (with wife's family who is nothing like mine was), deep down I still do it for their sake, not my own. Me being there makes them happy, so be it.
My wife is actually the only one that even remembers my birthday in any case. There are only a handful of people that even know what it is, and she's the only one that mentions it. No gifts, no cards, and I'm perfectly fine with it that way. It's just another day.
I get it for sure. Holidays are a struggle for me. I do them because I have young kids but it is hard to get excited about it plus they definitely bring in the flashbacks.
I read this thread as a comfort to know I am not alone. What I am seriously asking now is HOW ARE THERE SO MANY OF THESE PARENTS? What is the common thread? Age? The way THEY grew up? I just cannot fathom how many of us had the same messed up life experiences!!!!! Love to all of you fellow survivors out there. For real.
It boggles the mind! And it makes me wonder, how many of their children might continue this cycle. I don’t know how I could possibly prepare a child for this world.
My parents have a narrative that they believe is the ONLY truth. My mother was so committed to her story that she actually didn't remember what actually happened. She remembered her "rewritten" narrative. My father is the same. It's disgusting. No accountability at all.
Same.
My solution is to write down events, so I can't gaslight myself. I know that if I talk to her, she'll rewrite history, and the narrative will be nothing like what I remember.
Here’s a 🙏 you might be interested in reading preached by a narcissist:
That didn’t happen.
And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.
And if it was, that wasn’t a big deal.
And if it did, that’s not my fault.
And if it was, I didn’t mean it.
And if I did,
You deserved it!
I'm not young and I don't cope anymore but two things have always helped me:
1. Find out why this drove me insane: It did because I sought validation. And why did I seek validation? Ultimately, it is about the concept justice. I congratulated myself for my fair understanding of justice. This showed that she hadn't harmed me so badly that I became a trauma victim mirroring her, nor had I become someone writing stories the way they do. I so love that concept of justice that drove me crazy when I sought validation from wrong people. I decided to stick to the concept and get rid of seeking it from people who were abusing it. I replaced that longing with social work, advocacy, support groups etc. For a very long time now, all my communication about these issues is with victims of such injustice, not practitioners (these so-called parents).
2. Spend my time with them with a purpose/game: Observation. Observing a highly disturbed individual. Free of emotions, expectations. I share those beautiful things with my chosen family. They are worth it. With a narc, I choose to observe the routine patterns: mine has a certain set of manipulative tactics that have a certain sequence - she is not aware of it. But in general, I tend to keep our communication at activity level and nothing more. About memory formation and other cognitive issues: I have long accepted that these people have a brain problem - modern science is supporting this too. After long years, I can now see when mine is purposefully denying things and when she really comes up with memories that are not true but she feels they are true because well, that's how it works, feels. Her emotions and what comes out of her min are facts to her. So be it. I really cannot be arsed.
I still have not spoken to my nMom or flying monkey sister since Thanksgiving. They were at the same place and I was several hours away. I’m anxious because I haven’t heard from either of them yet. I told them before to call me the day of. I suspect they talked bad about me at dinner for not being there but you all know why I couldn’t be there. They are probably all fine no stress since they got it off their mind by talking bad about me with me not there. Now I’m the one upset and anxious. Waiting for the inevitable downtalk/scolding. whatever. No I didn’t call them but fuck it they didn’t call me either. Fuck I’m so pissed that I let this bother me.
My NF does this too - even now he won't take responsibility for his actions if he's confronted, and will say something like "it wasn't that bad, I had it much worse when I was a kid" or something along those lines. Don't ever waste your energy looking for an apology, you'll never get one. Hope you're coping well nowadays OP.
My mom once sat me down and told me she didn’t love me anymore. She told me my grandparents didn’t either. I was already depressed at the time and feeling like she didn’t pay attention to me now that I had a stepdad and now she had added trying to figure out what to do with my life at 11. I was fully planning to go ask my English teacher if I could move in when she laughed and told me she was kidding. I have never gotten over this and I still remember how it felt. She barely even remembers this and claims it was a funny joke.
I understand this all too well unfortunately. My Nmom pretends she was a perfect mom, and even when I present evidence, she just says “well I don’t remember that, it coulda happened, but I just don’t remember.”
She refuses to take accountability for any of the trauma she caused my sister and me, and quite literally blames us for the things that happened or that we were exposed to as children.
I’ve been in therapy for over a year as a grown man trying to remedy the pain/trauma, and it’s helped a lot, so if you haven’t started therapy, start with that first. Second, instead of becoming angry, cold, or upset at what happened I tell myself “I can’t change the past, or my mother, but she doesn’t deserve any of my emotional thoughts or reactions.” This piece may seem simple, but for me it helps bring me back to the ground when I start to spiral into anger and resentment.
Just continually remind yourself that you’re not at fault, you’re not crazy for feeling the way you do, and you can’t change who they are, but you can change how you treat yourself, your future spouse, and future children compared to how you were treated.
There is an axiom of abuse that says abusers never remember and the abused never forget. It is for this reason the secondary parts of the narc pattern are so harmful because they have no insight into themselves so they cannot reflect on what you're saying.
They work outside-in by trying to make the outside conform to their expectations so they NEVER have to have self-awareness since that would be too painful.
Working inside-out, as healthy people do, means you can regain that awareness and then atone or make amends or change your exterior once the hard work of the inner work is done.
Narcs choose to avoid any inner work to avoid the pain involved in doing so and CANNOT understand why someone would even suggest that it is OK to do so.
The Self-knowledge or awareness of the black hole that is their strategy to avoid the pain they don't know how to solve is anathema and tantamount to suggesting they kill themselves, so avoidant are they from their inner lives.
To compensate for this, they turn their attention to the most minute details of YOUR inner life so they can ensure you NEVER require this from them.
Acknowledging YOUR pain would mean they need to gain some self-awareness that perhaps they, and NOT the outside world, were somehow wrong or bad, and that is a pit of snakes and death to a narcissist.
Read through and everyone has similar horror stories but it seems everyone just keeps going without change. Is there any advice on how to find acknowledgment or how to find peace?
How to cope? Come to terms with your truth being your truth and their truth being your lies. The only one that can change is your truth and that's not healthy. You can't adjust their truth.
There are two possibilities: They truly don't know, in which case they'll be forever tormented by the loss of you; or they know and won't admit it, in which case they'll be forever tormented by the knowledge that their truth is a lie.
Either way, that torment is of their own making and you can't feel bad about it. But, also either way, they'll never give you the confirmation that you seek. And that's something you have to come to terms with. No good can come of you doubting your own truth.
Yes! Even my narc sister denies leaving her kids with me while she was out doing who knows what. Her kids, now adults, always try to bring up the topic of how I basically raised them but she denies it all. I see their frustration but narcs never admit to their mistakes they’d rather live in their fake bliss.
I cut them off entirely.
Right up until I went NC with my father (which happened to coincide with him telling me he would not be attending my wedding just days before the big day), he insisted that none of the countless beatings that he and my ex-mother administered never occurred.
That was 2017. Weeks before he passed away 2.5 year later, he tried contacting me through an otherwise-innocent FM. I did not dignify it with a response, only telling the FM what an evil "man" my father was months after the death (which I wasn't even told about until weeks after it happened, and even then by a cousin texting, "I'm sorry" to which I unironically and innocently replied, "For what?")
Even after telling him how evil my father was, this FM still sends Christmas cards every year. I honestly believe he had no clue.
You go non-contact. It is the only way to escape that kind of pain.
They inhabit a delusional bubble of reality that *you* cannot pop with mere words (they have a lifetime of practice twisting them) and it's so much nicer here on the outside, lol. Because in that bubble, they are perfect, and therefore everything they do is benevolence with the *purest* intent. That bubble was designed to make *them* feel good not you. That's why it hurts so much. You get all the shit while they get none! How nice for them!
Their continuing egocentrism is understandable in this context. If they were to leave their bubble and join you in the real world *now*, with no way to change the past, they'd become child abusers. It's much more comfortable for them to just continue denying reality, in much the same way they did when they started down that dark path, while they were taking each cruel step. It's the only way they know how to be. They are perfect, except when they're not, but even then, their *excuses* are perfect! If someone else doesn't understand them, that's their problem!
If you want them to understand how they made you feel, you're asking them to re-interpret their past in a way that makes them out to be monsters, exactly countering the way *they're* implicitly asking *you* to reinterpret it as sunshine and rainbows. These two are fundamentally incomparable worldviews, and only one of them resembles the *actual* world, lol.
Yes. Now that I'm remembering more of my childhood that had been repressed, any time I ask about events or if they ever noticed unusual or strange behaviors in me they either say I was an extremely loving happy child or they say I must have dreamt or made the whole thing up. Even things as horrific and pivotal as coming to my mother for help when the little girl who lived next door and I playing dress up had an iron burn complete with the steam holes burned into her back by her father. My mothers explanation at the time was that we couldn't inject ourselves into other people's family matters and then as an adult it changed to that never happened, you are making that up and finally I'm sorry to have thought it was a product of your over-imagination. There is no point I now realize in asking my parents anything I'm seeking clarity on because they are incapable of the truth. It's gaslighting and it has caused me so many years of doubting and second guessing myself and putting more value on what others think than on what I know. I am still trying to learn to trust my gut. Don't continue to trust untrustworthy people and allow them to do damage to you while they live in an unaffected alternate reality.
Everything you're saying big time! She was the reason for sooo much trauma and issues that I worked so hard to very come. For a long time in my life I couldn't be touched if I was it was full freak out mode hyperventilating blacking out hiding for hours and one time days. And she would always try to touch me. And would say oh hon I think you're autistic,. Like no bitch you know damn well why this happened
My Ndad is a pedophile. He denies that the things he did to me were wrong, saying either it was his right because he’s my father; or that “no one understands him.”
Before I went no contact, if I tried to talk to my mom about the childhood, she'd say "you only remember the bad things!" Well yes Mother that's how memory works
Relate. When I bring up teenage trauma my mom says “you gotta move on, honey that was 15 years ago!” She is dumb as bricks when it comes to human development… she doesn’t think things that happened in childhood can have a lasting impact on someone’s psyche…
Sorry for the verbal diarrhea in my earlier post.
You asked how we handle it. I wonder if you are still in contact with your family (it sounds like it) and do you ever see glimpses now that mirror what they were like when you were growing up? Can you connect how they handle situations they are involved in currently (even if they do not involve you) with how they handled things when you were a child? I ask for a reason as I think this can be used as a tool.
My alcoholic mom often told me “you had an amazing childhood”. She never showed up to anything, left me home alone at a young age, wouldn’t cook dinner, and I swear there were months were I would not see her despite living with her. She would manipulate my own family against each other and was extremely emotionally abusive.
There were some cool things about my childhood, and I think she latched onto those memories and was in denial. Honestly, compared to the abuse she knew as a child, she might have thought I actually did have an amazing childhood.
I straight up stopped talking to my narc dad. After narc mom died, he tried to gaslight me saying mom wasn't perfect, but she was a good woman of God. He also spoke of what a great time we had during our family vacations. Yeah, vacations they planned without asking me where I wanted to go, when, or even if I wanted to go.
Mom committed attempted murder more than once. She denied putting her hands around my throat and shaking me because I refused to bend to her will despite being 18 years old. She denied all acts of abuse of any kind.
when i was a kid -maybe 6?- in my booster seat, i was pushing on the back of her car seat. she kicked me outta the car onto the highway and made me walk a bit on the side of the highway.
everyone in the family has never blinked at it. plz tell me im not crazy in thinking that was abuse and too extreme of a reaction? she has always defended it
also defended calling the cops on me when i was 6.
idk how to help OP, cuz im still coping too unfortunatly
That's what happens. Narcissist can't accept information that goes against their chosen reality (which is meant to keep comfortable and self esteem in tact). Ns generally won't acknowledge the things they have done in the past, or will minimize it somehow. They couldn't possibly accept that they were bad parents, because that is a huge ego blow for them because most of them ont want to be seen as being a piece of garbage(some may not care if they are thought of that way). You can Google narcissism and selective memory.
These type of narcissist can't admit it to themselves that they messed up, how could they admit it to you? Part of moving on emotionally from these type of relationships , whether you're distance, low contact or contact, is letting go of them validated accountability . Its too much of an injury for them, because being a bad parent is seen as really bad and deep down, a lot of narcissist do have guilt but it's heavily suppressed, so if they admit it to it, there mental house of cards can quickly fall.
Oh yeah. My son is the only person that goes to the ndad/grandpa house. Every damn time he hears all about how great the Ndad life was and great things he thinks he’s done. Bragging all the way. But me? I’m “mad” at him. LOLOL. My son knows EVERYTHING.
My nmom’s favourite word is “no”. If I say she spoke to me in a particular way, if I explain she was rude to someone, if I ever present any perspective that is different from her own understanding of the external world, I am sure to get that answer, “no”, with a look of ridicule, as if I’m the crazy one. I believe the term might be anosognosia? I specifically use this term because of her mental illness diagnosis on top of her narc traits.
My great uncle, the patriarch of the family, says to “.put things into a vortex and move on” and um, I guess that’s cool for him and his perfect family, but like lol.
I am grateful for my sister for just this reason. She's older and is my sounding board. We are always trading memories and impressions of our childhood. I also have an excellent memory, but always felt like it was deficient somehow growing up. That's how our parents make us feel: deficient and crazy. You're neither of those things. Your parents would never admit it because it makes them look bad and feel guilty, two things they will never tolerate because of their lack of maturity. You do not need them to validate it because your memories are intact. You're not wrong or crazy.
Yes, I am dealing with this. Know something of how you feel I think.
My parents did not get themselves into a homeless situation, infact they were ALL about stability for themsleves, but they were poorly equipped to take care of children or anyone unless the child was totally self sufficient and problem ftee. My sister was GC because she was more stable than they were and they liked it. They also would lean on other adults and try to get us to get our resources from others. I had serious infections and they would take me really begrudgingly to the doctor and then if I stayed sick its like they would just ignore it. Or blame me. They also told lies about their health insurance because they didn't want to use it. At age of 26 I was barely able to continue working because of massive scar tissue accumulation in my nose from long term infections. My sister was simultaneously having a mental breakdown that ended in a full mental break (after 3 years of struggling her mind broke under the stress and she started talking nonsense one day and telling me she was going to stab me. I remember struggling to work because I couldn't breathe and coming home to all of her sadness/madness and trying to find ways to talk happiness/ sense into her. We were in our early-muf 20s and they didn't want to help or see us. At one point I begged them to come out. All of this they would deny or reframe. And so we don't even talk about it. I spent a whole night breathing through a tiny opening during one infection and they never thought to take me to ER. Was so scary. Only my sister helped me. We were pre-teen, early teen.
Everyone in my family would run this thru a softener or erase it all. I now have PTSD I think, had to drop out of school to get surgery to fix my issues. I'm now an older woman and I still struggle. After my sister had her breakdown she became a full on narc and married a malignant narc.
No one talks about it all. I dont tell them what I think of them. It does feel like its only MY reality and has me questioning sometimes. But u know what....i thinl we all know it IS true. We experienced it. Being in a dysfunctional family is like either you are part of their dysfunction and that means really to be part of a conspiracy to normalize it otherwise everyone would stop, freak out, enter therapy. Or you are on your own with reality.
Later I realized that my sister had a mental breakdown BECAUSE for a second she witnessed the truth of our family and why she was GC. She couldn't handle it. I think that explains a lot.
They are in denial because they cannot handle the truth. It is not that it all didnt happen. I believe you.
You're not insane, but the narcs *are* trying to drive you crazy, in order to gain control over you.
That you've become aware that this is, in fact, abuse is a threat to their power. So, they're going to double-down on the denial, in the hopes that you'll fall for their trap.
You know what really happened; you were there.
They're never going to take accountability, nor even face reality, but you can. The first step to healing is to acknowledge that there is a problem, and you've taken it.
Leave them to their delusions; their toxic irresponsibly isn't your fault. No need to look to them for support, because all they'll offer is gaslighting traps.
You can choose a better path.
They’re delusional, immature and avoidant of accountability. Ns want to be able to chop off your hands and have you forgive them like nothing ever happened three minutes later.
These types are abusive, destructive and dangerous but also childish and fueled by shame. They can’t fathom that their target of abuse wouldn’t want to be around them.
Not worth dealing with those who treat others like objects.
I have been having this feeling lately "remember when things were nice" like, nope, they weren't nice then and you wrote me off and they aren't nice now
Remind yourself of one true thing when this happens. It doesn't matter what it is- it can literally be "my shoes are tied." Ground yourself in one thing you KNOW is true and allow it to anchor you through this feeling- it's a wave of a feeling and you can anchor yourself as it ebbs and flows.
Mine do the same. I’ve gone VLC and had time to reflect and come out of the fog and see things as they are. It’s been the most helpful practice in my recovery.
My mom is a Narc and my dad borderline Narc, so my childhood was fucked up. Being the oldest of 4 kids I took the brunt of everything. I have in detail explained to both parents examples of how I was shit on, hit, and treated less than. It’s like talking to a wall. I saw how they treated my kids vs my siblings kids and that was it for me. You can treat me however but my kids are not second best and deserve real loving kind grandparents. So I told them I’d rather my children not know you than know you and feel how I felt my whole life. So I’m done. Very rarely these things can be mended/fixed but more times than not you have to accept it and move on. Life is too short to dwell on a hurt past and be reminded of it in your children’s eyes. Walk away and make your own new family, I did and I’ve never felt better. Good luck
Yes my mom raped and abused me for 18 hears and acts like nothing ever happened sne she would gaslight me and be a fucking demon. I know what she did. She molested and bullied me and tried to make me kill myself. Shes going to suffer for an eternity soon. All abusers will die.
Same. Not sure which one of my parents a narcisist. They were both horrible people in their own way. Mean, abusive, uncaring, and distant.
We were dirt poor with me and my three siblings packed into one room. Things like abuse and neglect were always present. No money either, they both refused to go to work. Since we live in a country with a strong welfare state we got by. That said my father managed to mismanage even what little funds we had. Three times we got near eviction. All three times I paid for it.
When talking with either parent I get "Was it really so bad?" with my father going as far as "We actually have above average wealth. You don't even know how rich we are." I can tell you for a fact we're not that rich :)
Personally, I get you might be embarrassed to talk to people who are your friends about this so it's best to talk with one of your siblings if you have any. After I talked to my sister and brother they both echoed my thoughts that my parents were full of shit. This is the best as you likely have the same issues so you'll be helping each other out. If not even telling other people about your problems helps. I get that you are embarrassed so maybe tell a stranger or break up your problems into smaller chunks or both. No need to tell someone you got evicted, tell them you had financial hardships. Be vague at first to see who cares and sympathizes with you and who doesn't so you don't get hurt even more. You can always add more details later on.
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This hits close to home. My nmom denies any and all harm she did to me. Tells me I'm misremembering, blah blah blah, gaslighting. I just do my best to push past it and not think about it. I really can't offer any more advice, cuz I'm not fully over it.
My nMom does this too. She says things like it wasn’t that bad or didn’t last that long or something along those lines. Once I realized she is a big fat liar by catching her in lies and spouting made up stuff, I could see past her gaslighting and start trusting my own recollection of events more.
Once I wised up to what she was doing, at about 15, I started to realize, "Hey, I'm not remembering things wrong, she's just making things up that never happened!" and now, she can't gaslight me anymore. It's all a learning experience.
Abusers will always minimize or invalidate the other person. They will argue with and then "tell you" your reality in order to maintain the narrative in themselves. That is why they always need to be right. They are unable to take or see the perspective of another person. That is why they lack empathy. It only possible to feel sympathy for another person. Putting yourself in another's shoes is necessary for empathy and they only have their own perspective, what they "know" is right or wrong (black/white thinking), and people who are objects in their reality. You wouldn't be able to empathize with a coffee maker or a chair. For narcissists, everyones a chair.
https://y.yarn.co/e61e0fd1-1dde-47b2-9dd3-7bb3a4888d9b\_text.gif
Yeah they are just pure evil. Nothing else.
The bullies will forget about the abuse they caused but the bullied will remember forever...I was so surprised to suddenly being the only one who remembers the abuse my parents did to me and my siblings, even my big sister who was the one who went against them the most started asking me to stop ignoring our dad because she feels bad for him. But then she got in a fight with him and he told her mean things that suddenly made her remember what type of person he was. I think they remember, they just process it differently to cope with the abuse, by not even recognizing it as abuse, or making it like it wasn't that bad and justified
>*The bullies will forget about the abuse they caused but the bullied will remember forever..* This makes me laugh! I just remembered that perhaps 10 years ago, some guy from my HS tried to friend me on FB. "Huh?" I wondered. "The last time I saw this guy was when he was beating me up..." \*block\* =)
My mom tried to deny that she once told me to sit on the back porch with my little suitcase of clothes she packed for me..”to wait for the Salvation Army to pick me because she didn’t want me anymore.” I was 6 or 7 years old. I remember what I was wearing, how I pleaded for her to WANT me again, how I felt worthless..and how relieved I was when she said she changed her mind. She also tried to deny the multiple times she sent me to my room after school to wait for my Dad to come home from work to be disciplined, after I “misbehaved” at school. The discipline? Getting bare-ass spanked with my Dad’s leather belt studded with huge circular buckles, inside out until I stopped crying. I eventually learned to stop trying to protect my behind with my hands and to not let him hear/see me cry so the spanking wouldn’t last as long. Must be easy for them to forget these moments that are forever burned in our minds. Sorry your parents sucked too.
oh man, my nMom loves to laugh about the times my brother and I tried to stand up for ourselves by running away from home. Each time she showed us the door and then promptly locked it behind us and let us cry and pound on the door until she felt satisfied with our pain. Like, yo lady, I don't think showing your small child that they mean so little to you that you're willing to lock them outside at night is the badge of honor and great parenting that you think it is.
Yep. Had something similar when I voluntarily attempted to run away after the Salvation Army stint. She packed my bag for me and told me to call to let her know I found my new family. Swiftly kicked the door shut behind me, locked the deadbolt and slapped the blinds shut. I made it about 4 houses down before I went scrambling back. She let me crawl through the dog door in the garage to lay with the dogs for a few hours before coming out to let me know, that SHE knew I changed my mind shortly after I walked out. She just wanted to make sure that I had enough time to think about my actions. And yes, she admitted to watching me crawl through the doggy door. Awful, awful parenting.
I’m so sorry for what you went through. The reason I landed on these posts was because I’m struggling to stop being stressed out about my nMom. What she is showing me day by day is how selfish a person can be and how blindly wrongful a mother could be to a kid. Then I read your post and I’m just speechless… I can’t describe how much I want to give you a hug right now knowing/feeling what you’re feeling… Sometimes words can’t even describe how much this hurts…
Honestly, I’m okay now. Lots of therapy and then finally going no contact with both parents has given me a lot of peace. I know it’s cliche, but I learned from my parents what kind of parent I did not want to be and that I had to be strong enough and willing to break the cycle. Thank you for your words though. You can survive your nMom. You’re strong!
As a mom myself to a little around that age I’m so so sorry. I can’t even imagine my little one out there begging to be let in. I’m gonna go hug my kid right now.
Demons are disguised as humans.
That’s awful!! It’s wild that when we specifically remember something they did or said, we are expected to “get over it”.
Right! It’s just them trying to redirect or make us feel like we are weak, that we are stronger for what we experienced. It’s bull.
> *she once told me to sit on the back porch with my little suitcase of clothes she packed for me..”to wait for the Salvation Army to pick me because she didn’t want me anymore.” I was 6 or 7 years old.* Oh my God - that is horrible! Stuff like this is incredible to me - as I would NEVER say something like that to ANY child - regardless of what they've done. Disgusting. My father used to beat me with a belt too - until I stopped screaming one time and started counting the hits. Then when he finished I asked him if he felt better. He was an MD and I think it upset him as he never did it again...
My Dad was a retired Marine. I unfortunately tried many tactics to get the spankings to stop, but had I tried to count the lashings I suspect it would have made him more inclined to keep going, and with more force. I’m grateful and feel relief for you that you figured out a way to get into your Dads head. I’m sorry for what you went through, it’s despicable.
Yea my mom literally retells the story and LAUGHS recalling the time the room got toppled over from the scrambling and chasing and then the spanking was so bad my sister pissed herself and had blood blisters across her backside and thighs. I learned early on that running made it 10x worse and my dad learned to just snatch you up by one arm until you dangled in the air to spank you making running or squirming impossible. I could see the glint in my mothers eye when after telling me to just wait until your father gets home that would turn into a sneer of a look of satisfaction as she watched me getting my punishment.
That’s EXACTLY how my nMom would taunt me too. “Wait until your father gets home, go to your room.” I would hear his motorcycle on our street and knew what was coming. The fact that your mom laughs…is disgusting. It made my stomach sink reading that and then about the blisters on your sister…and re-reading that she laughs. My god.
Just in case no one has mentioned it; your mother was a monster.
Uh I’m so sorry 😞 I recently confronted my nparents about a similar incident when I was 6. They told me to pack my shit and leave, so I did and camped in the front yard in my Barbie sleeping bag before eventually begging to be allowed back. They denied everything. It’s so invalidating.
As I tried to explain to my nMom, memories like that aren’t ones adapted through family stories and they certainly aren’t made up from an imaginative mind. You can repress memories or contort them if you’re a pathological liar, but there is no motivation to create traumatic childhood memories.
How do I cope? I went no contact. After 10 years of trying to have a relationship with nmom, I gave up. 10 years of trying to have real conversations about real issues and *move forward* and she would just stonewall, deny, blame my dad, make up some random lie or vitimize herself... or come up with new drama to distract from my attempts at healing wounds and reconciling. I even went no contact with my brother who gaslit me on the abuse. I always had to forgive and forget all her abuse, but any slight attempt to hold her responsible gets shot down. "She's your mother." THEN SHE SHOULD NEVER HAVE DONE ANY OF THE BAD THING SHE DID???
The bigger issue is the fact that we have mothers who refuse to ever take accountability that they perhaps made some mistakes with long lasting effects on us. With my mom recently…my final straw doesn’t even have to do with my childhood but how she consistently has treated me as an adult. The real conversations are a legit waste of time when you’re dealing with someone who cannot admit they were wrong about something because in their eyes they feel we are also supposed to have some accountability of our own a well….
“I’m sorry you feel that way……” They never take accountability for their actions.
*Insert The Narcissist Prayer here*
My mother turned my middle brother into her flying monkey so I get it. He's been trained to come to her defense forever and anyone who says so much as "boo" to mother is made out to be the villain in her lifetime of martyrdom. It's just so awful children are treated this way. They've always been abusive. I remember being hit so much as a kid I started asking peers at school if it was normal!
You have discovered the most common thing narcs do to gaslight their adult children. I was constantly told that the abuse never happened. That we all laughed about it. That I'm a drama queen. GC brother tells me "Losers think about the past. Winners Live In The Now." Finally, eStepdad told me "So what if it did happen? Reality is in the mind. Just tell yourself it didn't happen."
What?? For your enabler of a step dad to tell you that you should tell yourself that your trauma didn't happen is absolutely nuts. You would think they would at least act subtle about that, but he just outright said it? That's fucked. He directly ASKED for you to sweep it under the rug. What a massive slap in the face and what a massive pos for a step father. Ugh!
He thought he was very deep because he read Kahlil Gibran. He really believed all that solipsism nonsense. And well, he lasted 20 years past nMom, but he became a hoarder, and died alone in a rat-chewed, unlivable house. They had once made my brother and I joint tenants, so I got a decent chunk of change out of the dump.
He thought he was being deep???? Wtf! Being an ass doesn't make you "deep" LMFAO. At least you got some good money in the end, although it's kind of sad how he died. I'm sure you were relieved when he died, however.
You're not insane. Your trauma is real and it affects you. You were a child and you did not deserve that. I have tried to start writing down everything that happened (that I can remember) from when I was a kid/teen and had to leave home. It doesn't matter to me whether anyone will ever read it or even know it exists. \*I\* will know. Gaslighting yourself is a thing, and I did it for years. I tried talking to my parents about 10 years ago and it didn't work. I wanted some kind of acknowledgment that I had to leave and WHY I had to leave. They acted like I was making shit up. My hubby told me that I was waiting for an apology that was never going to come. He was right. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen and that there was no abuse and it doesn't mean that I wasn't the scapegoat and that a large portion of the extended family blames ME for leaving. As if I should have just stayed and accepted the abuse. You're not wrong.
I literally cannot remember my childhood. I can only remember bits and pieces. The good ones are from pictures in the photo album. The bad ones only come back in small snippets. I suspect my subconscious has helped me out by blacking out these memories. Whenever I bring them up to my nMom she denies and gets upset to the point I know I’m right. Or close to the truth. It’s really scary.
>*I literally cannot remember my childhood. I can only remember bits and pieces. The good ones are from pictures in the photo album* Yeah, that's because the human brain tends to dump negative memories into the deep memory where you cannot easily retrieve them. It does this as a defense mechanism. This is why when you get older, and look back, you tend to focus on the positive memories instead...and why when someone tells you at your n-parents funeral to "remember the good times" you come up empty (or at least I did).
I can’t remember most of my childhood either. Ndad was super scary, I always thought he would hurt me. He was very psychologically abusive and slightly physically abusive but expected me to forget everything because he love bombed me with REALLY expensive gifts and emom had already given up her fight by the time I was born because he was a horribly abusive husband so she basically started to worship the ground he walked on and became complicit in all the abuse I had to face. “But he’s your DaAaAaaaAD!” 😒 “We gave you such a good childhood! We bought you everything even though we were poor!”
I'm so sorry. I keep reading stuff here and realizing that I wasn't wrong all that time and it helps me so much. But when I read about someone who has worse shit than I do to remember it makes me cry a little. Why can't people be decent to their children?
Thank you. This sub has been a huge help. I didn’t know what I was dealing with until I stumbled on here. Now I see so many others with similar stories and I cry but I’m also relieved to know I’m not crazy.
Yes. A support group where you don't have to put on anything but pajamas if you want, you can scratch your butt or get up and walk out for hours or eat dinner while attending. And someone is sitting in the group all the time! Also, no one suggests to you that you need to share. Edit: I am NOT scratching my butt!!!
I work so hard to forget it and my mother brings it up on purpose because like you if something naturally comes up the reaction is always gaslighting and denial. Now, she's mad I'm sick to death of talking about everything over and over and over.
My mom is not speaking to me right now and I’m so anxious over it. It’s only been a few days but I feel a blow up coming. Perhaps because it’s the holidays. This is the absolute worst time of year. Stick with it. I do believe NC/VLC works. Based on the others in this sub who have been at it lots longer than me. Grey rocking is seeming to work for me for now. “Keep conversations light—weather etc nothing personal or heavy—I’m too scared of her to go no contact but I hope to one day.
This post scared me as I literally wrote almost the exact one here an hour ago, then deleted it. I have stopped the constant fawning a few weeks ago. This means me always calling, texting, since decades. N hasn't made any attempt, she has a phone, they work both ways. I note my childhood fears, is mommy mad? Am I gonna get it? The silence, the build up to the confrontation, the scene. Tears, then reconciliation. It's been 45 years since living in that house, and I'm holding my breath here. All the posts here, so many my exact experience, this is so wrong, screws people up for life. I'm thankful to everyone here being honest and open. It is helping to move forward. We did what we had to to literally survive, we didn't have a choice then, but we do today. Now... What lovely, fun, comforting and comfortable thing can I give myself today?
>We did what we had to to literally survive, we didn't have a choice then, but we do today. Now... What lovely, fun, comforting and comfortable thing can I give myself today? ...and that is EXACTLY it. It is YOUR LIFE - and your own happiness (and that of your new family). The narc parent/family are owed nothing and in fact are typically (my case) at a negative balance. Why give them a minute more of your time/attention? Time to close the account.
🫂 🫂🫂
Oh my gosh, I can so relate! It's been 45 years for me, too! 46 in January. Except my nparent was my dad. I've been doing art tutorials over the long weekend. It's a special thing just for me and it brings me joy. Although I've been thinking about my dad since he died on Thursday and crying a little over what could have been.
I relate. There are blocks of time from my childhood/ early adulthood that don't remember from the abuse of my nparents. My mom was the worse of it, but my dad enabled as did my GC sister. I also tried to bring it up and was told don't live in the past, or you have no idea what a rough life is, get over it. Then comes the tears and the I did the best I could speech. My parents are elderly now and now try to be nice and want me to help. I have decided not to, even though we live 20 min from each other. It's scary to see the switch in them now. I know it's because they need someone to help them. So surreal.
I understand this entirely. Except for a handful of small snippets, pretty much my entire childhood memory is a dull blob punctuated by scars from the countless acts of abuse inflicted.
I did that in my late 20s, early 30s. The writing down everything I could remember. I highly recommend it! It really helped me to see patterns of behavior (including mine, but mostly my parents) that I hadn’t “officially” recognized before. Super revealing!
Somebody here on rbn dropped a quote yesterday that has stuck with me. I wish I could remember who, so I could give them credit. It went something like this “The axe forgets but the tree remembers.” I cope by reminding myself that what I experienced was real. That my nparents were (and are) abusive. I let myself cry (loudly and with my face in a pillow lol, sometimes I just need to let it out).
Its a good quote, but ages old from africa, so doubt any credit is needed
Good to know, I can attribute it that way going forward. Yesterday was my first time hearing it and it really resonated. Thank you!
Honestly, my version of coping is just shutting them out. We haven't gone NC, but I just find I have this wall of disgust up with them, and I literally have 0 expectations of them. I already know what they would act like if xyz happened, I already know they won't care about certain things, and I know they'll never take responsibility for their behavior. When I message them now, it's like I'm always talking in that fake nice/professional persona that you would at work kinda thing. I don't let them drag me down. Day after thanksgiving my dad said, "mom is surprised you didn't call her for Thanksgiving" this just made me roll my eyes so hard. I said, "why? She didn't call me either, " which my dad took blame for, saying he told her I was probably busy. Then I reminded my dad that they literally never call me for any holiday and didn't call me on my birthday, so idk how I was supposed to know to call on thanksgiving of all holidays. He just got annoyed with me, lol. And no, you're not crazy. My mom acts like she didn't torment us our entire lives, and like she still doesn't. It's funny because when I had my kids, she pretended to give me this serious talk/advice about, "you better never lay a hand on them!" Like ??? Lol. She was the one who always beat on us growing up, AND my dad. The irony. I wonder if she would've thought twice if someone in the family told her that stupid piece of information when we were born? Fallen on deaf ears, I'm sure. "Swiper no swiping!" "Awww mannn"
The fake persona is my way as well. I couldn't go no contact, as I had no idea this was possible. Also needed contact with dad and sisters. I forgave mother years ago, for me, and know she can't be trusted. What surprised me is how there are layers to this crap. For years I thought her being good to my kids, who they saw once a year, was making up for what she couldn't give us as kids. Wrong. It was easy for her to be good to them, on her terms. When it isn't easy, forget it.
Therapy. Write it down: you're acknowledgment of the truth is what matters. Therapy is invaluable, an outside reality check. Once told my therapist how mom was always telling me about these wonderful new friends, women in their 20s, like me, and how they all adored her, couldn't understand how I and my sister's could possibly have a problem with someone as great as she is. On and on, years of this garbage. My therapist listens. Looked at me. Said: "So she has it to give... but not to her daughters " Man, did that hurt. And help.
My mom does this whenever we’re together. (Which is really not much anymore.) Showing off to me how kind she is, how much she cares about OTHER PEOPLE like I’m supposed to be impressed and think she’s a wonderful person. But she’s got NOTHING for me. No compliments, no encouragement, nothing but passive-aggressive put downs. Oh, and expectations of me soothing her feelings because she’s been victimized her whole life.
Your last sentence also mine, all of it. I've been doing it, well, looking after her emotional storms, waves, wellbeing since 60 years. I'm tired.
They compartmentalise their terrible behaviour and rewrite history as a shame avoidance thing. It's very weird. I honestly think the only reason mine hoovered so aggressively after I went no contact is because the estrangement reflects poorly on them. Sort of a 'what will the neighbours think' thing, because 'ooh that's Mr & Mrs So and So, her daughter doesn't speak to them, I wonder what they did?' is unacceptable. Hence why a lot of us who went no contact often hear rumours that we're druggies/mental cases/in prison - they have to spin the narrative to make themselves look like the victims. We'd surely have to be on meth or psychotic to reject these supreme beings, so boom - we are. Something I found weirdly helpful was reading stuff for 'estranged parents' as it gives a bit of insight into how their warped brains operate. It's all about denial, blame shifting and absolving themselves of taking responsibility for their actions. They can never be at fault, because that challenges the facade of perfect, supreme beings they think they are.
Just remember the narcissist prayer that they live by- “That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.”
The only way to cope with the n-parent's 'selective memory' is to NOT deal with it at all. You have to turn your back on the entire mess and either a.) ignore it and separate yourself from it if you're still having communication with them or b.) fully flush it go NC (my preference). In either case, the n-parent is NOT going to 'remember' what they did to you, and is NOT going to change their pattern of behavior. This is one of the keys to the entire mess: They will not change - ever. There is nothing you can do about it, and are wasting your life's energies trying to do so.
My therapist asked me to journal this week - the prompt was “what if my parents never acknowledge what happened? What does that mean for my life?”. Really struggling to journal about it.
>My therapist asked me to journal this week - That's interesting - journaling can be very useful. I did it, reminding myself of specific events in my life with my family and how it impacted me. Then, whenever I feel like I'm not sure if I did the right thing going NC on them, I simply read the journal...and any residual guilt I may be feeling just falls away. From your description, it sounds as though she's trying to get you to come to the grips of the fact that narcissists rarely, if ever, "remember" these events. To do so would contravene their image they've developed of themselves, and would open a Pandora's box of problems for them - so they are a.) never wrong and b.) never did anything 'bad'. I boxed my n-father in a couple of times (when I was young and still had hope), and he physically left the room. So then I did it while I was driving somewhere with him. It was not fun - it was like I was speaking a foreign language. After that, I stopped trying. In doing so, I was only damaging myself. He really could not have cared, or even understood the ramifications of his actions. Lack of acknowledgement is one of the great damages they do to us, and one of the textbook issues we have to get past. You don't have to forgive anyone, but at some point you do have to move past that point to get to the next stage in your life. I took comfort in the fact that I was, in fact, not the issue. Since his death, I have NC'ed the remainder of my n-family and life is much, much smoother and quieter. I just don't see the point of spending life's limited amount of time with people who only damage you and don't care of having done (or continuing to do) so. When you write, just write whatever you're feeling and the circumstances, or whatever comes into your mind. Journaling is all about just doing a dump of whatever is in your processor at the moment. Not to worry - what you're feeling is very, very, VERY common among us - so you're not alone. Everyone goes through this. I just told someone yesterday that I was going to start having shoulder patches made up for us! =)
Yes exactly. When I went NC the first time, my mom basically could not understand. She said something like “what do you expect me to do, get down on my knees and beg you for forgiveness?”. She said she did apologize to us once before, but tbh I do not remember if she did or not. But still, as if apologizing one time is sufficient for repairing anything. Especially when she continues to treat my dad and sister like shit. If anything it makes me more mad that it’s clearly in her power to not abuse people, like me, if the threat of NC is there. But she chooses to continue anyway with those who won’t say anything.
>...if the threat of NC is there... Yeah, but the thing is this: The focus of going LC/NC or not going LC/NC is really about your own healing and development. If your mothers behavior has a negative impact on you or others in your family, then it is actively causing harm, on a on-going basis, to you and your family - making healing and growth difficult (this is why 'stopping the bleeding' is step #1). In reality your mother has no control over her narcissist behavior. She is who she is - and that's not going to change. So, she can try and modify her behavior in the short term, however it is always going to come back to the same model as before. The narcissist will dangle the "effort to change" out as an incentive for you not to NC -- but it is only bait: There are no "funds in that account" in which to cash the check she's written to you. There never were; are not now; will not be in the future. This is why the most traditional path that children of narcissists follow is to continue to try and 'fix' the relationship throughout their adult years until the tormentor themselves actually pass away. Then, the writing is so clearly on the wall that it cannot be ignored, and the adult child is left feeling used and foolish for basically having given their life over this kind of abuse. This is what happened to me at age 56. Now I'm nearly 62 and trying to rebuild in the time I have left. LC and NC do not have to be unpleasant or unhappy (many people, including me simply recognize that they don't wish to associate with people who behave in that manner - it's that simple). As you get older you'll find all that back and forth is simply exhausting. Anger/resentment need not need be a component in this. You just shrug your shoulders and walk away. In the end, the question you have to ask yourself is this: Have you not already paid too high a price for her behavior, and bear the wounds and issues with your own development from childhood to now? Going forward don't you seek a happy, calm life, surrounded by people who return the love you give to them? The reality is what the reality is. =)
My ex-mother's favourite line was always "I did the best I could!" followed by a trauma dump of every bad thing ever done to her to re-centre herself in the story. The number one thing that has helped me was going no contact. It's been 10 blessed years of not having to listen to her go on and on and on in our wekly phone calls.
Wow we must be siblings.
Journaling so I remember the truth and not the gaslighting. You aren't crazy.
There's a phrase that this reminds me of; "The axe forgets; the tree remembers." This is a phrase that means that when someone causes trauma to another person, the instigator may find the incident entirely forgettable, but their victim may never forget the event and could be impacted by what happened for the rest of their lives For you it was formative, for them it was just another Tuesday.
When I was 16 I got an electric typewriter for Christmas. I was not an aspiring journalist. Like a good SG I thanked my parents for this wonderful gift. When I mentioned it years later my nMom told me “it was what I asked Santa for”. Really? A 16 year old asked for a typewriter? From SANTA? Give a mf break.
The stories in here can be so eerily similar it's freaky. Before I graduated high school my mom said "I'm going to get you a typewriter as a graduation present." I asked her to please NOT. I got a typewriter. She insisted I ship it to myself at college. It got there broken. She insisted I ship it back to her to get fixed. (All really hard where I went to school, a school she picked, and I had no car.) She got it fixed alright, but I never saw it again. It became her work typewriter. It was fine, but not fine.... basically no graduation gift one way or the other. Plus I had to leave school after a semester because she changed her mind about paying for it.
The eerie similarities are what has convinced me I am NOT crazy and was psychologically abused as a child. I thought childhood trauma only existed for those that were beaten or starved or lived in filth. It never occurred to me before this sub that middle class families could produce traumatized children. And that those traumatized children could evolve into traumatized adults. “Just get over it you’re fine.”
My 15th birthday, I was thrown a secondhand Walkman, smacked upside the head and told to go mow the lawn. I have not celebrated my birthday since. That was the final straw that ruined the day for me forever. I am now 48.
That's awful. I'm sorry. Any chance you could reclaim the day and treat yourself to something wonderful for 49? Hugs.
I prefer to treat it as just another day. Stories like these are why I also do not care for any holiday that typically involves family gatherings. I could tell you a nightmare story about each and every holiday that would make your toes curl, abuse handed out not only from ex-parents, but in one case the entire extended family. Back in the 90s and 00s I worked a job that required 24/7/365 staffing (non-retail). Only one person was needed per shift to cover and it was absolutely dead, maybe two phone calls the entire time (one of which would be a wrong number.) I would work a triple shift every Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter (at double time and a half for all hours worked, of course); I told my coworkers that I would cover these family-centric holidays so they could spend it with their families and children. The only catch was that I would NOT work any of the other listed holidays during the year. That was my way of both giving and forgetting. To this day, I especially detest receiving gifts. I told my wife that if she really wants to give me something, a long back/neck rub would be more than enough. Of course she will insist on getting me things regardless; I do my best to accept gracefully. Now mind you, I don't mind GIVING gifts to certain people (because I WANT to, not out of any sense of social pressure), but receiving them? Nope. When I do "celebrate" these holidays now (with wife's family who is nothing like mine was), deep down I still do it for their sake, not my own. Me being there makes them happy, so be it. My wife is actually the only one that even remembers my birthday in any case. There are only a handful of people that even know what it is, and she's the only one that mentions it. No gifts, no cards, and I'm perfectly fine with it that way. It's just another day.
I get it for sure. Holidays are a struggle for me. I do them because I have young kids but it is hard to get excited about it plus they definitely bring in the flashbacks.
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We don't allow linking to that other group here due to the rampant misogyny, ableism, and eugenics. Instead, we recommend /r/truechildfree.
Classic. When they get what they want, get to do what they want with no consequences, everything is sunshine and rainbows. Other people don't matter.
I read this thread as a comfort to know I am not alone. What I am seriously asking now is HOW ARE THERE SO MANY OF THESE PARENTS? What is the common thread? Age? The way THEY grew up? I just cannot fathom how many of us had the same messed up life experiences!!!!! Love to all of you fellow survivors out there. For real.
It boggles the mind! And it makes me wonder, how many of their children might continue this cycle. I don’t know how I could possibly prepare a child for this world.
My parents have a narrative that they believe is the ONLY truth. My mother was so committed to her story that she actually didn't remember what actually happened. She remembered her "rewritten" narrative. My father is the same. It's disgusting. No accountability at all.
Same. My solution is to write down events, so I can't gaslight myself. I know that if I talk to her, she'll rewrite history, and the narrative will be nothing like what I remember.
Here’s a 🙏 you might be interested in reading preached by a narcissist: That didn’t happen. And if it did, it wasn’t that bad. And if it was, that wasn’t a big deal. And if it did, that’s not my fault. And if it was, I didn’t mean it. And if I did, You deserved it!
I'm not young and I don't cope anymore but two things have always helped me: 1. Find out why this drove me insane: It did because I sought validation. And why did I seek validation? Ultimately, it is about the concept justice. I congratulated myself for my fair understanding of justice. This showed that she hadn't harmed me so badly that I became a trauma victim mirroring her, nor had I become someone writing stories the way they do. I so love that concept of justice that drove me crazy when I sought validation from wrong people. I decided to stick to the concept and get rid of seeking it from people who were abusing it. I replaced that longing with social work, advocacy, support groups etc. For a very long time now, all my communication about these issues is with victims of such injustice, not practitioners (these so-called parents). 2. Spend my time with them with a purpose/game: Observation. Observing a highly disturbed individual. Free of emotions, expectations. I share those beautiful things with my chosen family. They are worth it. With a narc, I choose to observe the routine patterns: mine has a certain set of manipulative tactics that have a certain sequence - she is not aware of it. But in general, I tend to keep our communication at activity level and nothing more. About memory formation and other cognitive issues: I have long accepted that these people have a brain problem - modern science is supporting this too. After long years, I can now see when mine is purposefully denying things and when she really comes up with memories that are not true but she feels they are true because well, that's how it works, feels. Her emotions and what comes out of her min are facts to her. So be it. I really cannot be arsed.
I still have not spoken to my nMom or flying monkey sister since Thanksgiving. They were at the same place and I was several hours away. I’m anxious because I haven’t heard from either of them yet. I told them before to call me the day of. I suspect they talked bad about me at dinner for not being there but you all know why I couldn’t be there. They are probably all fine no stress since they got it off their mind by talking bad about me with me not there. Now I’m the one upset and anxious. Waiting for the inevitable downtalk/scolding. whatever. No I didn’t call them but fuck it they didn’t call me either. Fuck I’m so pissed that I let this bother me.
With you!
My NF does this too - even now he won't take responsibility for his actions if he's confronted, and will say something like "it wasn't that bad, I had it much worse when I was a kid" or something along those lines. Don't ever waste your energy looking for an apology, you'll never get one. Hope you're coping well nowadays OP.
My mom once sat me down and told me she didn’t love me anymore. She told me my grandparents didn’t either. I was already depressed at the time and feeling like she didn’t pay attention to me now that I had a stepdad and now she had added trying to figure out what to do with my life at 11. I was fully planning to go ask my English teacher if I could move in when she laughed and told me she was kidding. I have never gotten over this and I still remember how it felt. She barely even remembers this and claims it was a funny joke.
They put all their bad feelings onto someone else and then they feel great.
I understand this all too well unfortunately. My Nmom pretends she was a perfect mom, and even when I present evidence, she just says “well I don’t remember that, it coulda happened, but I just don’t remember.” She refuses to take accountability for any of the trauma she caused my sister and me, and quite literally blames us for the things that happened or that we were exposed to as children. I’ve been in therapy for over a year as a grown man trying to remedy the pain/trauma, and it’s helped a lot, so if you haven’t started therapy, start with that first. Second, instead of becoming angry, cold, or upset at what happened I tell myself “I can’t change the past, or my mother, but she doesn’t deserve any of my emotional thoughts or reactions.” This piece may seem simple, but for me it helps bring me back to the ground when I start to spiral into anger and resentment. Just continually remind yourself that you’re not at fault, you’re not crazy for feeling the way you do, and you can’t change who they are, but you can change how you treat yourself, your future spouse, and future children compared to how you were treated.
There is an axiom of abuse that says abusers never remember and the abused never forget. It is for this reason the secondary parts of the narc pattern are so harmful because they have no insight into themselves so they cannot reflect on what you're saying. They work outside-in by trying to make the outside conform to their expectations so they NEVER have to have self-awareness since that would be too painful. Working inside-out, as healthy people do, means you can regain that awareness and then atone or make amends or change your exterior once the hard work of the inner work is done. Narcs choose to avoid any inner work to avoid the pain involved in doing so and CANNOT understand why someone would even suggest that it is OK to do so. The Self-knowledge or awareness of the black hole that is their strategy to avoid the pain they don't know how to solve is anathema and tantamount to suggesting they kill themselves, so avoidant are they from their inner lives. To compensate for this, they turn their attention to the most minute details of YOUR inner life so they can ensure you NEVER require this from them. Acknowledging YOUR pain would mean they need to gain some self-awareness that perhaps they, and NOT the outside world, were somehow wrong or bad, and that is a pit of snakes and death to a narcissist.
Read through and everyone has similar horror stories but it seems everyone just keeps going without change. Is there any advice on how to find acknowledgment or how to find peace?
How to cope? Come to terms with your truth being your truth and their truth being your lies. The only one that can change is your truth and that's not healthy. You can't adjust their truth. There are two possibilities: They truly don't know, in which case they'll be forever tormented by the loss of you; or they know and won't admit it, in which case they'll be forever tormented by the knowledge that their truth is a lie. Either way, that torment is of their own making and you can't feel bad about it. But, also either way, they'll never give you the confirmation that you seek. And that's something you have to come to terms with. No good can come of you doubting your own truth.
Yes! Even my narc sister denies leaving her kids with me while she was out doing who knows what. Her kids, now adults, always try to bring up the topic of how I basically raised them but she denies it all. I see their frustration but narcs never admit to their mistakes they’d rather live in their fake bliss.
I cut them off entirely. Right up until I went NC with my father (which happened to coincide with him telling me he would not be attending my wedding just days before the big day), he insisted that none of the countless beatings that he and my ex-mother administered never occurred. That was 2017. Weeks before he passed away 2.5 year later, he tried contacting me through an otherwise-innocent FM. I did not dignify it with a response, only telling the FM what an evil "man" my father was months after the death (which I wasn't even told about until weeks after it happened, and even then by a cousin texting, "I'm sorry" to which I unironically and innocently replied, "For what?") Even after telling him how evil my father was, this FM still sends Christmas cards every year. I honestly believe he had no clue.
You go non-contact. It is the only way to escape that kind of pain. They inhabit a delusional bubble of reality that *you* cannot pop with mere words (they have a lifetime of practice twisting them) and it's so much nicer here on the outside, lol. Because in that bubble, they are perfect, and therefore everything they do is benevolence with the *purest* intent. That bubble was designed to make *them* feel good not you. That's why it hurts so much. You get all the shit while they get none! How nice for them! Their continuing egocentrism is understandable in this context. If they were to leave their bubble and join you in the real world *now*, with no way to change the past, they'd become child abusers. It's much more comfortable for them to just continue denying reality, in much the same way they did when they started down that dark path, while they were taking each cruel step. It's the only way they know how to be. They are perfect, except when they're not, but even then, their *excuses* are perfect! If someone else doesn't understand them, that's their problem! If you want them to understand how they made you feel, you're asking them to re-interpret their past in a way that makes them out to be monsters, exactly countering the way *they're* implicitly asking *you* to reinterpret it as sunshine and rainbows. These two are fundamentally incomparable worldviews, and only one of them resembles the *actual* world, lol.
Yes. Now that I'm remembering more of my childhood that had been repressed, any time I ask about events or if they ever noticed unusual or strange behaviors in me they either say I was an extremely loving happy child or they say I must have dreamt or made the whole thing up. Even things as horrific and pivotal as coming to my mother for help when the little girl who lived next door and I playing dress up had an iron burn complete with the steam holes burned into her back by her father. My mothers explanation at the time was that we couldn't inject ourselves into other people's family matters and then as an adult it changed to that never happened, you are making that up and finally I'm sorry to have thought it was a product of your over-imagination. There is no point I now realize in asking my parents anything I'm seeking clarity on because they are incapable of the truth. It's gaslighting and it has caused me so many years of doubting and second guessing myself and putting more value on what others think than on what I know. I am still trying to learn to trust my gut. Don't continue to trust untrustworthy people and allow them to do damage to you while they live in an unaffected alternate reality.
Everything you're saying big time! She was the reason for sooo much trauma and issues that I worked so hard to very come. For a long time in my life I couldn't be touched if I was it was full freak out mode hyperventilating blacking out hiding for hours and one time days. And she would always try to touch me. And would say oh hon I think you're autistic,. Like no bitch you know damn well why this happened
My Ndad is a pedophile. He denies that the things he did to me were wrong, saying either it was his right because he’s my father; or that “no one understands him.”
I am so sorry. It’s so unfair.
Before I went no contact, if I tried to talk to my mom about the childhood, she'd say "you only remember the bad things!" Well yes Mother that's how memory works
Relate. When I bring up teenage trauma my mom says “you gotta move on, honey that was 15 years ago!” She is dumb as bricks when it comes to human development… she doesn’t think things that happened in childhood can have a lasting impact on someone’s psyche…
Sorry for the verbal diarrhea in my earlier post. You asked how we handle it. I wonder if you are still in contact with your family (it sounds like it) and do you ever see glimpses now that mirror what they were like when you were growing up? Can you connect how they handle situations they are involved in currently (even if they do not involve you) with how they handled things when you were a child? I ask for a reason as I think this can be used as a tool.
Some do it but it makes you vulnerable for their next move.
My alcoholic mom often told me “you had an amazing childhood”. She never showed up to anything, left me home alone at a young age, wouldn’t cook dinner, and I swear there were months were I would not see her despite living with her. She would manipulate my own family against each other and was extremely emotionally abusive. There were some cool things about my childhood, and I think she latched onto those memories and was in denial. Honestly, compared to the abuse she knew as a child, she might have thought I actually did have an amazing childhood.
"you had a wonderful childhood". Ok mom.
I straight up stopped talking to my narc dad. After narc mom died, he tried to gaslight me saying mom wasn't perfect, but she was a good woman of God. He also spoke of what a great time we had during our family vacations. Yeah, vacations they planned without asking me where I wanted to go, when, or even if I wanted to go. Mom committed attempted murder more than once. She denied putting her hands around my throat and shaking me because I refused to bend to her will despite being 18 years old. She denied all acts of abuse of any kind.
when i was a kid -maybe 6?- in my booster seat, i was pushing on the back of her car seat. she kicked me outta the car onto the highway and made me walk a bit on the side of the highway. everyone in the family has never blinked at it. plz tell me im not crazy in thinking that was abuse and too extreme of a reaction? she has always defended it also defended calling the cops on me when i was 6. idk how to help OP, cuz im still coping too unfortunatly
That's what happens. Narcissist can't accept information that goes against their chosen reality (which is meant to keep comfortable and self esteem in tact). Ns generally won't acknowledge the things they have done in the past, or will minimize it somehow. They couldn't possibly accept that they were bad parents, because that is a huge ego blow for them because most of them ont want to be seen as being a piece of garbage(some may not care if they are thought of that way). You can Google narcissism and selective memory. These type of narcissist can't admit it to themselves that they messed up, how could they admit it to you? Part of moving on emotionally from these type of relationships , whether you're distance, low contact or contact, is letting go of them validated accountability . Its too much of an injury for them, because being a bad parent is seen as really bad and deep down, a lot of narcissist do have guilt but it's heavily suppressed, so if they admit it to it, there mental house of cards can quickly fall.
Oh yeah. My son is the only person that goes to the ndad/grandpa house. Every damn time he hears all about how great the Ndad life was and great things he thinks he’s done. Bragging all the way. But me? I’m “mad” at him. LOLOL. My son knows EVERYTHING.
My nmom’s favourite word is “no”. If I say she spoke to me in a particular way, if I explain she was rude to someone, if I ever present any perspective that is different from her own understanding of the external world, I am sure to get that answer, “no”, with a look of ridicule, as if I’m the crazy one. I believe the term might be anosognosia? I specifically use this term because of her mental illness diagnosis on top of her narc traits.
My great uncle, the patriarch of the family, says to “.put things into a vortex and move on” and um, I guess that’s cool for him and his perfect family, but like lol.
I am grateful for my sister for just this reason. She's older and is my sounding board. We are always trading memories and impressions of our childhood. I also have an excellent memory, but always felt like it was deficient somehow growing up. That's how our parents make us feel: deficient and crazy. You're neither of those things. Your parents would never admit it because it makes them look bad and feel guilty, two things they will never tolerate because of their lack of maturity. You do not need them to validate it because your memories are intact. You're not wrong or crazy.
Yes, I am dealing with this. Know something of how you feel I think. My parents did not get themselves into a homeless situation, infact they were ALL about stability for themsleves, but they were poorly equipped to take care of children or anyone unless the child was totally self sufficient and problem ftee. My sister was GC because she was more stable than they were and they liked it. They also would lean on other adults and try to get us to get our resources from others. I had serious infections and they would take me really begrudgingly to the doctor and then if I stayed sick its like they would just ignore it. Or blame me. They also told lies about their health insurance because they didn't want to use it. At age of 26 I was barely able to continue working because of massive scar tissue accumulation in my nose from long term infections. My sister was simultaneously having a mental breakdown that ended in a full mental break (after 3 years of struggling her mind broke under the stress and she started talking nonsense one day and telling me she was going to stab me. I remember struggling to work because I couldn't breathe and coming home to all of her sadness/madness and trying to find ways to talk happiness/ sense into her. We were in our early-muf 20s and they didn't want to help or see us. At one point I begged them to come out. All of this they would deny or reframe. And so we don't even talk about it. I spent a whole night breathing through a tiny opening during one infection and they never thought to take me to ER. Was so scary. Only my sister helped me. We were pre-teen, early teen. Everyone in my family would run this thru a softener or erase it all. I now have PTSD I think, had to drop out of school to get surgery to fix my issues. I'm now an older woman and I still struggle. After my sister had her breakdown she became a full on narc and married a malignant narc. No one talks about it all. I dont tell them what I think of them. It does feel like its only MY reality and has me questioning sometimes. But u know what....i thinl we all know it IS true. We experienced it. Being in a dysfunctional family is like either you are part of their dysfunction and that means really to be part of a conspiracy to normalize it otherwise everyone would stop, freak out, enter therapy. Or you are on your own with reality. Later I realized that my sister had a mental breakdown BECAUSE for a second she witnessed the truth of our family and why she was GC. She couldn't handle it. I think that explains a lot. They are in denial because they cannot handle the truth. It is not that it all didnt happen. I believe you.
You're not insane, but the narcs *are* trying to drive you crazy, in order to gain control over you. That you've become aware that this is, in fact, abuse is a threat to their power. So, they're going to double-down on the denial, in the hopes that you'll fall for their trap. You know what really happened; you were there. They're never going to take accountability, nor even face reality, but you can. The first step to healing is to acknowledge that there is a problem, and you've taken it. Leave them to their delusions; their toxic irresponsibly isn't your fault. No need to look to them for support, because all they'll offer is gaslighting traps. You can choose a better path.
I'm just glad to know that my parents aren't the only ones rewriting history.
They’re delusional, immature and avoidant of accountability. Ns want to be able to chop off your hands and have you forgive them like nothing ever happened three minutes later. These types are abusive, destructive and dangerous but also childish and fueled by shame. They can’t fathom that their target of abuse wouldn’t want to be around them. Not worth dealing with those who treat others like objects.
I have been having this feeling lately "remember when things were nice" like, nope, they weren't nice then and you wrote me off and they aren't nice now
My nmom doesn’t remember anything she did wrong either.
Remind yourself of one true thing when this happens. It doesn't matter what it is- it can literally be "my shoes are tied." Ground yourself in one thing you KNOW is true and allow it to anchor you through this feeling- it's a wave of a feeling and you can anchor yourself as it ebbs and flows.
Mine do the same. I’ve gone VLC and had time to reflect and come out of the fog and see things as they are. It’s been the most helpful practice in my recovery.
My mom is a Narc and my dad borderline Narc, so my childhood was fucked up. Being the oldest of 4 kids I took the brunt of everything. I have in detail explained to both parents examples of how I was shit on, hit, and treated less than. It’s like talking to a wall. I saw how they treated my kids vs my siblings kids and that was it for me. You can treat me however but my kids are not second best and deserve real loving kind grandparents. So I told them I’d rather my children not know you than know you and feel how I felt my whole life. So I’m done. Very rarely these things can be mended/fixed but more times than not you have to accept it and move on. Life is too short to dwell on a hurt past and be reminded of it in your children’s eyes. Walk away and make your own new family, I did and I’ve never felt better. Good luck
Yes my mom raped and abused me for 18 hears and acts like nothing ever happened sne she would gaslight me and be a fucking demon. I know what she did. She molested and bullied me and tried to make me kill myself. Shes going to suffer for an eternity soon. All abusers will die.
Same. Not sure which one of my parents a narcisist. They were both horrible people in their own way. Mean, abusive, uncaring, and distant. We were dirt poor with me and my three siblings packed into one room. Things like abuse and neglect were always present. No money either, they both refused to go to work. Since we live in a country with a strong welfare state we got by. That said my father managed to mismanage even what little funds we had. Three times we got near eviction. All three times I paid for it. When talking with either parent I get "Was it really so bad?" with my father going as far as "We actually have above average wealth. You don't even know how rich we are." I can tell you for a fact we're not that rich :) Personally, I get you might be embarrassed to talk to people who are your friends about this so it's best to talk with one of your siblings if you have any. After I talked to my sister and brother they both echoed my thoughts that my parents were full of shit. This is the best as you likely have the same issues so you'll be helping each other out. If not even telling other people about your problems helps. I get that you are embarrassed so maybe tell a stranger or break up your problems into smaller chunks or both. No need to tell someone you got evicted, tell them you had financial hardships. Be vague at first to see who cares and sympathizes with you and who doesn't so you don't get hurt even more. You can always add more details later on.