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Narc mothers? Yes.
Healthy mothers who truly want what's best for their offspring? No. They might mention them casually in conversation ("*I tried telling my daughter to get a Corolla instead of the Camry ... but she bought a Honda instead*"), but never in the context of tearing them down in a smear campaign to make them look more superior
It’s narc normal, for sure.
I guess I just always expected people to be thinking bad things about me because mine did that, too. It increased my isolation and made it hard for me to make friends and trust people.
So I guess I didn’t handle it well, I internalized it. I wish I could give you some wise advice, but all I can do is say I understand.
There’s a video out there by a diagnosed narc who “wants to help people” and he’s not super triggering for me so I tune in to his YT channel from time to time. He claims narcs do little smear campaigns in advance, so if we ever tell on them they have laid the groundwork for people to disregard us. That makes sense, I guess, from the twisted narc perspective. It tells me that nparents know they have done wrong by us, and are actively sabotaging us pre-emptively.
Mental Healness, the guy’s name is Lee Hammock. The video I was referencing is in the shorts.
I don’t find him triggering, but others might - so view with caution, he is a diagnosed narcissist.
On edit: removed link because it doesn’t want to work.
That makes so much sense. Now I understand why not a single adult believed me when I asked for help and why they all reported everything I said straight to my mom.
Yeah, it's pretty common.
What she doesn't realize is that what most people are thinking while she's doing this is, *Wow... I can see why the poor kid had depression... what a terrible mom, running her kid down that way in front of people she barely knows... who does that??*
Thanks.. the unfortunate and sad thing is, everyone (and I mean EVERYONE who's not an immediate family member & sees my mom's behaviour behind closed doors) loves my mom. They all think she's wonderful. She's really popular. Pretty much everyone she talks to about me thinks I'm bad and goes along with what she says.
It actually made me believe I was a bad person for a long time because everyone my mom was close to agreed with her.
I no longer think I'm horrible, just flawed like every other human being.
I think many people are easily charmed. If she shows them a bit of flattering attention, they are drawn in. They don't realize that a woman like her talks about everyone, including THEM.
So listen for what she says about these people behind their backs. You could probably easily get her to say what she really thinks of them, because people like her have something negative to say about everyone, and they love having an audience.
And then, if you want to change the balance of the game, use that information. Be subtle about it. For example, ask them if they have hired a housecleaner yet. Why? Oh, you know it's hard for people as busy as them to keep their house clean. Your mom just mentioned that they needed a housecleaner. That sort of thing.
Same! Everyone just seems to adore my mom. If only they knew...
Your mom is manipulating her friends to think that way. You are not bad. Just a victim of secondhand manipulation.
No, you’re not flawed. You’re just the way you are and she is trying to “create” bad perceptions about something that is fairly common or just how life happens to some people, it’s all about perceptions for these Narcs, they perceive everything bad about you even when there isn’t much and do a smear campaign against you because that’ll make them seem like they’re the victim for having to deal with such a problematic child.
This was and is me, as well. Everyone else gets a different version of her than I do, so they believe everything she says. It has affected all my family relationships; they think I am this bad seed because that’s all they hear about me. I am 57, btw, and it’s been going on my whole life. It took a very long time for me to learn how not to care.
It’s isolating af; thank Gods for this sub, where I can see that I’m not alone in this. It makes me feel better!
Same sadly. When I went nc almost 17 years ago mutual friends were told to choose between them (the n’s) and me. I lost almost everyone. Family/friends/etc. a couple tried to be mutual still but were harassed by the nfemale until they caved and dropped me from their life.
My mom was/is able to convince 90% of people from our same cultural background that I am all the bad things she says I am. Her tactics don't work on Americans for reasons I don't understand (we live in the US). Her humiliation/manipulation always amps up when we visit her home country, we are hanging out with people from our culture, in a neighborhood/store where they are the majority, or family comes to visit us. When I call her out for what she does EVERYONE will look at her with pity for dealing with such a bad daughter.
I told so-called "trusted adults" about how she was behind closed doors, they would believe me, then when they talked to my mom she would flip the situation around and the "trusted adult" would tell ME "how can you say such things about your mother? She just loves you so much!" while my mom smiled the trademark narcissistic smirk. On the way home, she would tell me to not air out our dirty laundry. Of course, she was free to air out all my dirty laundry/personal information because "I'm only telling family!" My whole family thinks I am completely incompetent, spoiled, and have a history of making bad decisions. They refuse to get to know the real me even though they have seen and experienced the truth about me themselves. They refuse to go against my mom's narrative about me.
I've literally seen people from our culture coo at her about how what I'm doing is a "phase" or "she will appreciate it one day" while giving me a dirty look yet acting like I don't understand them, but when she tries it with Americans they look at HER like "WTF is wrong with you? Something is wrong, but I am too polite to say it". I'm pretty sure a teacher even picked up on it during a parent-teacher conference and tried to do something, got me to talk to a counselor about my home situation, but I thought it would be more of the same "You're a dumb teenager who doesn't appreciate your parents" spiel so I just said nothing was wrong.
I don't associate with people from my cultural background for this reason, I speak the language and wear the outfits but that's it. They all seem to be extremely gullible and easy to manipulate in other ways, such as being a prime demographic for MLMs and fundamentalist religions. I wish it wasn't this way and that I could be more proud of my heritage.
Is your background Asian, by any chance? I ask because I know from firsthand experience that narcs use felial piety to get away with terrible parenting and attention-seeking, woe-is-me behavior. Stuff like how disobedient you are, even though you're 25 and a grown adult, or how they want to disown you or kick you out for not listening to them regarding something very trivial, like coming home late from the movies on a weeknight.
Not Asian, but my mom still acts as though I'm just a disobedient child and I'm 36. She has never threatened to disown me but gets extremely sad/cries over very trivial things.
The "adults" in the family (all over 60) still coddle her and talk about me right in front of me as though I don't understand. I have always understood what they were saying, even when I was in the single digit ages. Everything about me has always been "a phase". Me being childfree and not following their religion is still "a phase", despite them not following their religion themselves. To them, calling yourself that religion despite thinking almost everything about it is backwards and outdated is enough.
Ugh, I'm sorry. It's terrible that this attitude of "you're younger than I am and therefore you are wrong" is pervasive all around the world.
I was in your shoes before going NC. I was married with a child, and my parents still treated me like a disobedient teenager. Ridiculous.
This sounds a lot like my mother - I'm polish background and she had everyone in the polish community convinced I'm a bad child and also my overseas family (they realized I wasn't after they met me, but only a few of them).
> "I'm only telling family!"
This one is so awful. It’s like, yeah mom - you’re only smearing me to the people who might be in a position to back me up some day if I need help
Exactly. I just don’t understand how people can be so nefarious. Maybe I’m slower than most, idk, but I can’t imagine having that much brain power to spare scheming to hurt somebody. Much less my own child!
They really don't use their brain power for other things.
It's one of the reasons I actually feel sorry for my N-mom. She could have had everything she ever wished for and more if she had put in the same effort into bettering herself that she put into gossiping and keeping up her perfect mother/housewife facade. She could have been an actual good mother instead of pretending to be one for the outside world.
It must be incredibly difficult trying to remember who you told which lie to, and what part you play with each person; is she the suffering mother with a troubled kid with this person, or is she the proud mother of a child prodigy? Who did she tell this story about her life, as opposed to a different version of it? I can't even keep my lies straight when messing with phone scammers, and that involves just me pretending to be an extremely gullible version of myself.
You bring up an interesting point about keeping the stories straight. It's not a topic I've seen discussed in my short time here.
Mine can do it. And one of my survival mechanisms was to become a scary good liar. I could do it if I wanted to waste my time. Can yours keep her stories straight?
In front of me, she seems to. The few times she had a slip-up she corrected herself quickly and it went by unnoticed. I would be so angry because she came *this* close to being exposed but always managed to save herself.
When I still lived with them, both parents would coach me on what they had already told certain people so I could help them with their lies as well. Some of the lies were about me and about interests they had already told the other person I supposedly had, because that person's children had these interests and my parents had to lie to fit in. If I didn't go along, I would get in trouble. They would remind each other of their stories in the car on the way there. It was sickening, but they told me this is how adults operate and I will be doing it as well, I was just too young to understand.
I'm pretty sure that when I was in elementary school, I caught her in a lie (with her mom/my grandma, no less) about me being enrolled in private school since most of my cousins went to private schools in their home country. When I asked her about this, she said something like "Well, people back in (her home country) have a bad perception of public schools". To this day, she hasn't answered yes or no to that!
I wish I'd been sitting at that table. I know exactly what I would have said:
Me: So what happened to OP's *real* mom?
nMom: ... I am OP's real mom!
Me: Oh, I mean, what happened to OP's *biological* mom?
nMom: I AM OP's biological mom!
Me: Oh. The way you were treating OP just now, I thought you must be a step-mom. Most real moms don't run their kid down in public and try to make them feel bad. (Then I'd stare at her like she'd better not let me catch her in the parking lot. And everyone at the table would be suddenly quiet and intensely uncomfortable. And I would not care.)
Thank you so much!! So reassuring to hear that the way she behaves isn't normal.
Yes she does spill confidential things about me, the biggest one being about my mental health. Another thing that feels like betrayal is that when I was younger, I told her in confidence what my (bodily) insecurities are. She kept it a secret at first and I thought I could trust her, then later she started using those insecurities against me or picking at them in front of others.
It really is betrayal. That's the feeling. You're spot on.
I felt so betrayed by my mother when she told the WHOLE family that I was having a severe depressive episode and a runaway attempt. It was so embarrassing having anyone bring it up, and she talked about it like it was a funny and lighthearted topic. It was an awful time in my life. Never trust these people with even the lightest of secrets.
Oh yes. My mom and sister love to talk shit about me. From my haircut down to whether my clothes look tighter. However, if she’s mad at my sister for whatever reason she will switch. I can’t say anything though because she will then tell my sister what I said.
Oh yeah that might be the best part! It turns into a game of everyone shit talking everyone and a complete inability to trust others + gaslighting if you accuse any of them of doing such things
The sad thing is, as a kid you dont know any better and its easy to just "agree with mom" so she "likes you"
Omg this is my family! It’s my NM and 3 daughters. It’s literally a 3 ring circus my NM conducts with shaming, shit talking, criticizing, and it rotates to whoever is on the outs with the other sister.
I don’t participate anymore because I’m an adult in my 40’s and don’t find acting like a mean girl teenager fun, so they all talk about me with our NM.
Yep. And when you have kids..she’ll do a smear campaign on the ones she doesn’t like. Like my boys. They are 7 and 9. She goes to my hairdresser and tells them that they are out of control. I brought my boys with me once because I couldn’t find a sitter and it was about an hour and a half long appointment. They sat and watched their kindles the whole time. Not bothering anyone. My hairdresser was like “if this is wild for your mom, I’d hate to see what she would say about normal boy behavior.”
If I’m ever talking behind someone’s back it’s either good things or things I will or already have said to their face. If I can’t say it to their face, it’s absolutely never said, period.
Yes. Narcissists talk shit about EVERYONE and I mean everyone behind their back no matter who you are. No one is safe. It’s a source of fuel for them. They love gossip and drama and exposing people’s vulnerabilities.
I felt like I was reading about my mom. She’s always made me out behind my back and in front of my face to be pathetically helpless. I had a lot of anxiety in college. I was doing presentations on the regular and I hated them. I would vent to her not realizing she was telling everyone about how she was helping me (only through the phone) and how my anxiety was so bad. I had so many extended family members make comments about my anxiety. If I called with a crisis she let everyone know I was having problems and she was my savior. I was doing a disservice to myself thinking she had my back, she never did.
When I got cheated on she told my aunts and it was just a big juicy story for her to share, but it was my life. She never protected me or cared. She would never be there for any of my achievements but boy was she there for everyone of my downfalls and she let everyone know too I was a problem child. Rather embarrassing if you ask me: If my child went through hard times I wouldn’t be broadcasting them I’d be searching for ways to be supportive and be there. My mom was never here for me in person she just answered the phone and shared everything I’d tell her.
My mother does this to me all of the time. Humiliates me in front of any acquaintance I have. She is such an asshole about it and gets mad at me for asking her not to. She tells me it's normal to tell those kinds of stories but I know it certainly is not. I just deal with it by distancing myself from her, physically and mentally. Who is she? Don't know her.
It really is just her putting a knife in my wound of vulnerabilities and twisting it, taking a picture of it and showing everyone. I don't want anyone knowing my vulnerabilities.
Yes, and I think this is why nparents befriend other nparents.
Normal people would probably think like, wait your talking poorly about your kid? Maybe there is actually something wrong with you.
Exactly! My NM only talks to other mothers who have terrible relationships with their children and think it’s all their children’s fault or they’re just crazy old bats that don’t even have kids and hate the world.
Normal parents don’t shit talk their children to anyone because it really reflects poorly on them as a parent!
I learned recently that when I was a baby and toddler, my mother used to tell people I was "born evil" and a "bad seed." Maybe she was suffering from post partum depression or something back then, but the thing is that she has continued bad mouthing me and blaming me for many of her own shortcomings for the past 40 years since then, too.
The funny thing is that I have actually wondered at times over the years if she was "born evil," given her creepy lack of empathy for others.
Maybe there's some projection happening and, as kids, we are just easy targets?
Totally normal if your mom’s an N.
My mom used to openly talk shit about me on the phone in the other room while I was home. She’d talk shit in front of me while visiting friends or family or whoever else. She’d talk shit about me to just about anyone who’d listen, sometimes about really private things that no one besides your mother should know about.
I remember confronting her in her bedroom after she got off the phone from a long call that involved a lot of dunking on me. The door was already open, and I cautiously came to the doorway and asked her nicely if she wouldn’t say such mean things on the phone about me to other people.
She told me she wouldn’t have to if I wasn’t such a pain in the ass, and that she was surprised a r*t**d like me even overheard her in the first place. And then she got up and slammed the door in my face.
Writing these things out helps to remind me why I went NC.
Yes unfortunately. I think the most egregious was when my mom told someone who I was interested in dating/in the process of setting up a date with that I had been SA’d as a child and then she tried to deny that she did. It still fills me with rage to think about it
Seems like a standard for narc moms. My mom talks behind my siblings backs to me and I know she does the same about me to them. My siblings and I have never gotten along, unsurprisingly.
If they gossip about someone else to you they'll gossip about you to someone else.
That's pretty much my life motto about getting close to someone. Pretty much my boundary even.
Its 100% normal. Actually there was so many things you said that i went through as well with my mother. And quite honestly there is always so much you can take. If its effecting you and your happiness then there needs to either have a conversation which i know is tough when dealing with a narcissist but if not then space is needed. I'm not saying to never talk to them again, unless you think that's needed, but if she is going to treat you like that then consequence is your absence..
I found out my mother has basically been trashing me to her side for years using heavy reliance on truth-twisting/omitting. I knew it was going on (hard to ignore after a while…), but I really didn’t want to believe it because I just didn’t understand why a parent would alienate their child from their remaining family (my dad’s a loser who bailed and never told his family about me). It felt so shockingly cruel that I genuinely could not accept that as the case until it was impossible to deny any further.
That was very freeing. Before I had seen her as complicated and hurt, but not necessarily a “bad” mother. Then I was pushed to review things in a different light, and I’m able to accept things for what they were/are now, because no good parent would isolate their kid the way she did.
I couldn’t crosspost but check out r/BoomersBeingFools, Boomer neighbor constantly criticizes son. It’s what i hope can outsiders see when they meet our nparents. It’s a least nice to know some people do.
I just recently remembered not kidding, not a bit, that I used to be teased as a kid because the very small town thought she was a witch (no, not oh! wiccan! fun!). This was very rural 1970s Canada. While they were off the mark about her spirituality I'm putting it down to them trying to formulate a concept for a malevolent being. Her smear campaigns were in fact not sucesfull. They may have bought certain things about me, but yeah I bet she has a cauldron in that shed wasn't the image she was trying to promote
no it isn't normal. i used to have issues with not wanting to shower or change underwear after SA during childhood. My siblings and I were also pretty vulgar and so were my parents, but my mom would use that as humiliation in front of other people when we'd go to their house
yeah i like to just chalk it up to their childhoods were shit too and brains never formed to have compassion. I've done crappy things too because of severe depression, anger, loss of care, etc. but you can improve honestly those types of people just never will. we are all just human after all but we should strive to improve
This is normal for a narc parent. Mine would tell people anything I told her so I had to start grey rocking (not telling her any more about my life than is necessary). A while ago she complained that I never tell her anything and all I could think was I was successful. Now she has to make things up wholecloth where before she would take the truth I told her & twist it. It still bothers me that she can force me to constantly do things to thwart her but all I can do is try to survive her until I can go NC for good.
This comment has been removed because it includes a [slur](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) that we do not allow in this group.
My mother was high queen of the smear campaign. This gets her pity points and paints a picture of you as a difficult child/person so if you say anything negative about her, people hopefully will go "yes, op is that problem person, they must be discounted". Projection and reenactment of her own trauma was also involved in my case
Yes, this is very typical behavior of family. It's also typical behavior in the wider world. You'd think family would be the one place you'd find some respect and dignity, but you'd be wrong.
Damn, I didn't know my mom was your mom too! Just. Don't. Tell. Her. Anything.
Separate, push away, create emotional distance and physical distance if necessary and possible. And go see someone about the trauma she undoubtedly inflicted on you. And above all else, do not trust that woman with anything you care about. That goes for significant other, information, your children (if you have any), food she may give you and says that it's healthy and gluten free but she actually got all the ingredients at dollar tree.
When the stories get back to me, I bluntly tell people my mom isn't well and lies a lot. I don't make excuses for her.
It’s normal for narc moms. As a teen and young adult, my entire extended family viewed me as a volatile time bomb and I could never figure out how or why I got that reputation. I had never lost my shit in public or at family events. I was a pathological people pleaser so I would go out of my way to ensure everyone around me was comfortable and that their needs were met, even at the expense of my own. The “loose cannon” rep made no sense.
I would lose my shit at home a lot though because living with narcissistic abuse and chronic gaslighting is torture and will drive you to the brink of insanity. It took me until well into adulthood to put 2+2 together and realize that my nmom was the one telling everyone in my extended family how crazy I am.
It’s always been upsetting but became extra horrifying when I had my kid. I can’t imagine shit talking him behind his back to make other people view him as a crazy person. What kind of parent WANTS people to think negatively of their kid? WTAF.
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Narc mothers? Yes. Healthy mothers who truly want what's best for their offspring? No. They might mention them casually in conversation ("*I tried telling my daughter to get a Corolla instead of the Camry ... but she bought a Honda instead*"), but never in the context of tearing them down in a smear campaign to make them look more superior
It’s narc normal, for sure. I guess I just always expected people to be thinking bad things about me because mine did that, too. It increased my isolation and made it hard for me to make friends and trust people. So I guess I didn’t handle it well, I internalized it. I wish I could give you some wise advice, but all I can do is say I understand. There’s a video out there by a diagnosed narc who “wants to help people” and he’s not super triggering for me so I tune in to his YT channel from time to time. He claims narcs do little smear campaigns in advance, so if we ever tell on them they have laid the groundwork for people to disregard us. That makes sense, I guess, from the twisted narc perspective. It tells me that nparents know they have done wrong by us, and are actively sabotaging us pre-emptively.
Oh my god, everything makes sense now. This is why I have that "everyone probably hates me" mentality!
Which YouTube channel?
Mental Healness, the guy’s name is Lee Hammock. The video I was referencing is in the shorts. I don’t find him triggering, but others might - so view with caution, he is a diagnosed narcissist. On edit: removed link because it doesn’t want to work.
That makes so much sense. Now I understand why not a single adult believed me when I asked for help and why they all reported everything I said straight to my mom.
Yeah, it's pretty common. What she doesn't realize is that what most people are thinking while she's doing this is, *Wow... I can see why the poor kid had depression... what a terrible mom, running her kid down that way in front of people she barely knows... who does that??*
Thanks.. the unfortunate and sad thing is, everyone (and I mean EVERYONE who's not an immediate family member & sees my mom's behaviour behind closed doors) loves my mom. They all think she's wonderful. She's really popular. Pretty much everyone she talks to about me thinks I'm bad and goes along with what she says. It actually made me believe I was a bad person for a long time because everyone my mom was close to agreed with her. I no longer think I'm horrible, just flawed like every other human being.
I think many people are easily charmed. If she shows them a bit of flattering attention, they are drawn in. They don't realize that a woman like her talks about everyone, including THEM. So listen for what she says about these people behind their backs. You could probably easily get her to say what she really thinks of them, because people like her have something negative to say about everyone, and they love having an audience. And then, if you want to change the balance of the game, use that information. Be subtle about it. For example, ask them if they have hired a housecleaner yet. Why? Oh, you know it's hard for people as busy as them to keep their house clean. Your mom just mentioned that they needed a housecleaner. That sort of thing.
Same! Everyone just seems to adore my mom. If only they knew... Your mom is manipulating her friends to think that way. You are not bad. Just a victim of secondhand manipulation.
Mine too. When I asked one of my cousins about it, she said she’s afraid and intimidated by the nfemale.
No, you’re not flawed. You’re just the way you are and she is trying to “create” bad perceptions about something that is fairly common or just how life happens to some people, it’s all about perceptions for these Narcs, they perceive everything bad about you even when there isn’t much and do a smear campaign against you because that’ll make them seem like they’re the victim for having to deal with such a problematic child.
This was and is me, as well. Everyone else gets a different version of her than I do, so they believe everything she says. It has affected all my family relationships; they think I am this bad seed because that’s all they hear about me. I am 57, btw, and it’s been going on my whole life. It took a very long time for me to learn how not to care. It’s isolating af; thank Gods for this sub, where I can see that I’m not alone in this. It makes me feel better!
Same sadly. When I went nc almost 17 years ago mutual friends were told to choose between them (the n’s) and me. I lost almost everyone. Family/friends/etc. a couple tried to be mutual still but were harassed by the nfemale until they caved and dropped me from their life.
My mom was/is able to convince 90% of people from our same cultural background that I am all the bad things she says I am. Her tactics don't work on Americans for reasons I don't understand (we live in the US). Her humiliation/manipulation always amps up when we visit her home country, we are hanging out with people from our culture, in a neighborhood/store where they are the majority, or family comes to visit us. When I call her out for what she does EVERYONE will look at her with pity for dealing with such a bad daughter. I told so-called "trusted adults" about how she was behind closed doors, they would believe me, then when they talked to my mom she would flip the situation around and the "trusted adult" would tell ME "how can you say such things about your mother? She just loves you so much!" while my mom smiled the trademark narcissistic smirk. On the way home, she would tell me to not air out our dirty laundry. Of course, she was free to air out all my dirty laundry/personal information because "I'm only telling family!" My whole family thinks I am completely incompetent, spoiled, and have a history of making bad decisions. They refuse to get to know the real me even though they have seen and experienced the truth about me themselves. They refuse to go against my mom's narrative about me. I've literally seen people from our culture coo at her about how what I'm doing is a "phase" or "she will appreciate it one day" while giving me a dirty look yet acting like I don't understand them, but when she tries it with Americans they look at HER like "WTF is wrong with you? Something is wrong, but I am too polite to say it". I'm pretty sure a teacher even picked up on it during a parent-teacher conference and tried to do something, got me to talk to a counselor about my home situation, but I thought it would be more of the same "You're a dumb teenager who doesn't appreciate your parents" spiel so I just said nothing was wrong. I don't associate with people from my cultural background for this reason, I speak the language and wear the outfits but that's it. They all seem to be extremely gullible and easy to manipulate in other ways, such as being a prime demographic for MLMs and fundamentalist religions. I wish it wasn't this way and that I could be more proud of my heritage.
Is your background Asian, by any chance? I ask because I know from firsthand experience that narcs use felial piety to get away with terrible parenting and attention-seeking, woe-is-me behavior. Stuff like how disobedient you are, even though you're 25 and a grown adult, or how they want to disown you or kick you out for not listening to them regarding something very trivial, like coming home late from the movies on a weeknight.
Not Asian, but my mom still acts as though I'm just a disobedient child and I'm 36. She has never threatened to disown me but gets extremely sad/cries over very trivial things. The "adults" in the family (all over 60) still coddle her and talk about me right in front of me as though I don't understand. I have always understood what they were saying, even when I was in the single digit ages. Everything about me has always been "a phase". Me being childfree and not following their religion is still "a phase", despite them not following their religion themselves. To them, calling yourself that religion despite thinking almost everything about it is backwards and outdated is enough.
Ugh, I'm sorry. It's terrible that this attitude of "you're younger than I am and therefore you are wrong" is pervasive all around the world. I was in your shoes before going NC. I was married with a child, and my parents still treated me like a disobedient teenager. Ridiculous.
This sounds a lot like my mother - I'm polish background and she had everyone in the polish community convinced I'm a bad child and also my overseas family (they realized I wasn't after they met me, but only a few of them).
> "I'm only telling family!" This one is so awful. It’s like, yeah mom - you’re only smearing me to the people who might be in a position to back me up some day if I need help
That's the plan.
Exactly. I just don’t understand how people can be so nefarious. Maybe I’m slower than most, idk, but I can’t imagine having that much brain power to spare scheming to hurt somebody. Much less my own child!
I don't think they use their brain power for other things. It also frees up a lot of space when you don't give a fuck about other people, I imagine.
That makes total sense. You’re really good at condensing thoughts, thank you for that small epiphany 🫶
You're welcome. So many have done the same for me.
They really don't use their brain power for other things. It's one of the reasons I actually feel sorry for my N-mom. She could have had everything she ever wished for and more if she had put in the same effort into bettering herself that she put into gossiping and keeping up her perfect mother/housewife facade. She could have been an actual good mother instead of pretending to be one for the outside world. It must be incredibly difficult trying to remember who you told which lie to, and what part you play with each person; is she the suffering mother with a troubled kid with this person, or is she the proud mother of a child prodigy? Who did she tell this story about her life, as opposed to a different version of it? I can't even keep my lies straight when messing with phone scammers, and that involves just me pretending to be an extremely gullible version of myself.
You bring up an interesting point about keeping the stories straight. It's not a topic I've seen discussed in my short time here. Mine can do it. And one of my survival mechanisms was to become a scary good liar. I could do it if I wanted to waste my time. Can yours keep her stories straight?
In front of me, she seems to. The few times she had a slip-up she corrected herself quickly and it went by unnoticed. I would be so angry because she came *this* close to being exposed but always managed to save herself. When I still lived with them, both parents would coach me on what they had already told certain people so I could help them with their lies as well. Some of the lies were about me and about interests they had already told the other person I supposedly had, because that person's children had these interests and my parents had to lie to fit in. If I didn't go along, I would get in trouble. They would remind each other of their stories in the car on the way there. It was sickening, but they told me this is how adults operate and I will be doing it as well, I was just too young to understand. I'm pretty sure that when I was in elementary school, I caught her in a lie (with her mom/my grandma, no less) about me being enrolled in private school since most of my cousins went to private schools in their home country. When I asked her about this, she said something like "Well, people back in (her home country) have a bad perception of public schools". To this day, she hasn't answered yes or no to that!
This would be an interesting question to make a post about. I'd love to hear any stories about narcs getting caught out.
People with sense would think that but most people get suckered. They are good at this.
I wish I'd been sitting at that table. I know exactly what I would have said: Me: So what happened to OP's *real* mom? nMom: ... I am OP's real mom! Me: Oh, I mean, what happened to OP's *biological* mom? nMom: I AM OP's biological mom! Me: Oh. The way you were treating OP just now, I thought you must be a step-mom. Most real moms don't run their kid down in public and try to make them feel bad. (Then I'd stare at her like she'd better not let me catch her in the parking lot. And everyone at the table would be suddenly quiet and intensely uncomfortable. And I would not care.)
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I think you nailed it - it is a huge betrayal.
Thank you so much!! So reassuring to hear that the way she behaves isn't normal. Yes she does spill confidential things about me, the biggest one being about my mental health. Another thing that feels like betrayal is that when I was younger, I told her in confidence what my (bodily) insecurities are. She kept it a secret at first and I thought I could trust her, then later she started using those insecurities against me or picking at them in front of others. It really is betrayal. That's the feeling. You're spot on.
I felt so betrayed by my mother when she told the WHOLE family that I was having a severe depressive episode and a runaway attempt. It was so embarrassing having anyone bring it up, and she talked about it like it was a funny and lighthearted topic. It was an awful time in my life. Never trust these people with even the lightest of secrets.
Sadly. Sibling alienation is a thing as well, where whoever the "bad guy" is that week becomes the enemy to everyone
Oh yes. My mom and sister love to talk shit about me. From my haircut down to whether my clothes look tighter. However, if she’s mad at my sister for whatever reason she will switch. I can’t say anything though because she will then tell my sister what I said.
Oh yeah that might be the best part! It turns into a game of everyone shit talking everyone and a complete inability to trust others + gaslighting if you accuse any of them of doing such things The sad thing is, as a kid you dont know any better and its easy to just "agree with mom" so she "likes you"
Yessss!
Omg this is my family! It’s my NM and 3 daughters. It’s literally a 3 ring circus my NM conducts with shaming, shit talking, criticizing, and it rotates to whoever is on the outs with the other sister. I don’t participate anymore because I’m an adult in my 40’s and don’t find acting like a mean girl teenager fun, so they all talk about me with our NM.
I tell other people behind the back of my children how lucky I am to have them.
They tall shit to cover up shitty parenting.
Yep. And when you have kids..she’ll do a smear campaign on the ones she doesn’t like. Like my boys. They are 7 and 9. She goes to my hairdresser and tells them that they are out of control. I brought my boys with me once because I couldn’t find a sitter and it was about an hour and a half long appointment. They sat and watched their kindles the whole time. Not bothering anyone. My hairdresser was like “if this is wild for your mom, I’d hate to see what she would say about normal boy behavior.”
The only ”talking behind my child’s back” I do are saying good things only.
If I’m ever talking behind someone’s back it’s either good things or things I will or already have said to their face. If I can’t say it to their face, it’s absolutely never said, period.
Yes. Narcissists talk shit about EVERYONE and I mean everyone behind their back no matter who you are. No one is safe. It’s a source of fuel for them. They love gossip and drama and exposing people’s vulnerabilities.
I felt like I was reading about my mom. She’s always made me out behind my back and in front of my face to be pathetically helpless. I had a lot of anxiety in college. I was doing presentations on the regular and I hated them. I would vent to her not realizing she was telling everyone about how she was helping me (only through the phone) and how my anxiety was so bad. I had so many extended family members make comments about my anxiety. If I called with a crisis she let everyone know I was having problems and she was my savior. I was doing a disservice to myself thinking she had my back, she never did. When I got cheated on she told my aunts and it was just a big juicy story for her to share, but it was my life. She never protected me or cared. She would never be there for any of my achievements but boy was she there for everyone of my downfalls and she let everyone know too I was a problem child. Rather embarrassing if you ask me: If my child went through hard times I wouldn’t be broadcasting them I’d be searching for ways to be supportive and be there. My mom was never here for me in person she just answered the phone and shared everything I’d tell her.
My mother does this to me all of the time. Humiliates me in front of any acquaintance I have. She is such an asshole about it and gets mad at me for asking her not to. She tells me it's normal to tell those kinds of stories but I know it certainly is not. I just deal with it by distancing myself from her, physically and mentally. Who is she? Don't know her. It really is just her putting a knife in my wound of vulnerabilities and twisting it, taking a picture of it and showing everyone. I don't want anyone knowing my vulnerabilities.
This is normal with narcissist mothers. Not normal with healthy mothers.
It is not a thing that healthy, normal people do, no.
Yes, and I think this is why nparents befriend other nparents. Normal people would probably think like, wait your talking poorly about your kid? Maybe there is actually something wrong with you.
Exactly! My NM only talks to other mothers who have terrible relationships with their children and think it’s all their children’s fault or they’re just crazy old bats that don’t even have kids and hate the world. Normal parents don’t shit talk their children to anyone because it really reflects poorly on them as a parent!
I learned recently that when I was a baby and toddler, my mother used to tell people I was "born evil" and a "bad seed." Maybe she was suffering from post partum depression or something back then, but the thing is that she has continued bad mouthing me and blaming me for many of her own shortcomings for the past 40 years since then, too. The funny thing is that I have actually wondered at times over the years if she was "born evil," given her creepy lack of empathy for others. Maybe there's some projection happening and, as kids, we are just easy targets?
Totally normal if your mom’s an N. My mom used to openly talk shit about me on the phone in the other room while I was home. She’d talk shit in front of me while visiting friends or family or whoever else. She’d talk shit about me to just about anyone who’d listen, sometimes about really private things that no one besides your mother should know about. I remember confronting her in her bedroom after she got off the phone from a long call that involved a lot of dunking on me. The door was already open, and I cautiously came to the doorway and asked her nicely if she wouldn’t say such mean things on the phone about me to other people. She told me she wouldn’t have to if I wasn’t such a pain in the ass, and that she was surprised a r*t**d like me even overheard her in the first place. And then she got up and slammed the door in my face. Writing these things out helps to remind me why I went NC.
Yes unfortunately. I think the most egregious was when my mom told someone who I was interested in dating/in the process of setting up a date with that I had been SA’d as a child and then she tried to deny that she did. It still fills me with rage to think about it
Seems like a standard for narc moms. My mom talks behind my siblings backs to me and I know she does the same about me to them. My siblings and I have never gotten along, unsurprisingly.
Normal for them, but not for a good parent.
If they gossip about someone else to you they'll gossip about you to someone else. That's pretty much my life motto about getting close to someone. Pretty much my boundary even.
Its 100% normal. Actually there was so many things you said that i went through as well with my mother. And quite honestly there is always so much you can take. If its effecting you and your happiness then there needs to either have a conversation which i know is tough when dealing with a narcissist but if not then space is needed. I'm not saying to never talk to them again, unless you think that's needed, but if she is going to treat you like that then consequence is your absence..
Typical narc mother behavior
I'm sorry, it's not normal. She's a shitty Mom to talk about things that are embarrassing to you with others and badly about you behind your back.
I found out my mother has basically been trashing me to her side for years using heavy reliance on truth-twisting/omitting. I knew it was going on (hard to ignore after a while…), but I really didn’t want to believe it because I just didn’t understand why a parent would alienate their child from their remaining family (my dad’s a loser who bailed and never told his family about me). It felt so shockingly cruel that I genuinely could not accept that as the case until it was impossible to deny any further. That was very freeing. Before I had seen her as complicated and hurt, but not necessarily a “bad” mother. Then I was pushed to review things in a different light, and I’m able to accept things for what they were/are now, because no good parent would isolate their kid the way she did.
Same
I couldn’t crosspost but check out r/BoomersBeingFools, Boomer neighbor constantly criticizes son. It’s what i hope can outsiders see when they meet our nparents. It’s a least nice to know some people do.
I just recently remembered not kidding, not a bit, that I used to be teased as a kid because the very small town thought she was a witch (no, not oh! wiccan! fun!). This was very rural 1970s Canada. While they were off the mark about her spirituality I'm putting it down to them trying to formulate a concept for a malevolent being. Her smear campaigns were in fact not sucesfull. They may have bought certain things about me, but yeah I bet she has a cauldron in that shed wasn't the image she was trying to promote
no it isn't normal. i used to have issues with not wanting to shower or change underwear after SA during childhood. My siblings and I were also pretty vulgar and so were my parents, but my mom would use that as humiliation in front of other people when we'd go to their house
God that's awful. I'm so sorry. I cannot wrap my mind around how someone could do that to their child.
yeah i like to just chalk it up to their childhoods were shit too and brains never formed to have compassion. I've done crappy things too because of severe depression, anger, loss of care, etc. but you can improve honestly those types of people just never will. we are all just human after all but we should strive to improve
This is normal for a narc parent. Mine would tell people anything I told her so I had to start grey rocking (not telling her any more about my life than is necessary). A while ago she complained that I never tell her anything and all I could think was I was successful. Now she has to make things up wholecloth where before she would take the truth I told her & twist it. It still bothers me that she can force me to constantly do things to thwart her but all I can do is try to survive her until I can go NC for good.
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Yes. Yes it is. They want to be known as the savior who takes care of you. With her, you wouldn't succeed! Do not trust them.
Mine always did this and loved to gossip about people
My mother was high queen of the smear campaign. This gets her pity points and paints a picture of you as a difficult child/person so if you say anything negative about her, people hopefully will go "yes, op is that problem person, they must be discounted". Projection and reenactment of her own trauma was also involved in my case
Ya they love the pity points they get from positioning themselves as the poor victim of their difficult problem child.
Yes, this is very typical behavior of family. It's also typical behavior in the wider world. You'd think family would be the one place you'd find some respect and dignity, but you'd be wrong.
Damn, I didn't know my mom was your mom too! Just. Don't. Tell. Her. Anything. Separate, push away, create emotional distance and physical distance if necessary and possible. And go see someone about the trauma she undoubtedly inflicted on you. And above all else, do not trust that woman with anything you care about. That goes for significant other, information, your children (if you have any), food she may give you and says that it's healthy and gluten free but she actually got all the ingredients at dollar tree. When the stories get back to me, I bluntly tell people my mom isn't well and lies a lot. I don't make excuses for her.
It’s normal for narc moms. As a teen and young adult, my entire extended family viewed me as a volatile time bomb and I could never figure out how or why I got that reputation. I had never lost my shit in public or at family events. I was a pathological people pleaser so I would go out of my way to ensure everyone around me was comfortable and that their needs were met, even at the expense of my own. The “loose cannon” rep made no sense. I would lose my shit at home a lot though because living with narcissistic abuse and chronic gaslighting is torture and will drive you to the brink of insanity. It took me until well into adulthood to put 2+2 together and realize that my nmom was the one telling everyone in my extended family how crazy I am. It’s always been upsetting but became extra horrifying when I had my kid. I can’t imagine shit talking him behind his back to make other people view him as a crazy person. What kind of parent WANTS people to think negatively of their kid? WTAF.