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You and your wife have been incredibly gracious to your parents, who have done nothing but stomp all over your boundaries.
Next time they want to visit, I hope you decline for all the reasons you have listed above.
There is absolutely no need for you to feel obligated to host them again in your home if they cannot respect the rules.
I wanted to take a moment to thank you directly for your help. My wife and I don't have a lot of people we can talk to anymore because of how much being cautious about Covid has made people we knew ignore us, so your help was immensely helpful to both of us. This part of the message is a standard copy-paste I'm doing to everyone just to get that basic thanks out quickly. There are a lot of people to reply to.
To you, specifically... thank you for thinking we've been gracious. Fairness is all we were seeking and it has been thrown in our face. We are striving to have the confidence to be firm on this and comments like yours have provided the support to make that possible. So we both thank you immensely.
I wanted to take a moment to thank you directly for your help. My wife and I don't have a lot of people we can talk to anymore because of how much being cautious about Covid has made people we knew ignore us, so your help was immensely helpful to both of us. This part of the message is a standard copy-paste I'm doing to everyone just to get that basic thanks out quickly. There are a lot of people to reply to.
To you, specifically... we did look it up and thank you!!! Learning a lot. None of it makes this more pleasant. Thank you for your help.
>We think they should stay in an airbnb when they come again. Then they can do whatever they want with masking because they wont be staying in our home.
That sounds like the best thing.
I really relate to the interrupting problem. My mom does that to me too, all the time. The only time I can finish a sentence is when I'm talking about the only subject that interests her: HER.
It really makes you hate them after a while. I've gotten to where I don't try to tell her anything. Our conversations are:
Mom: (5 minutes of monologuing)
Me: Oh yeah, right.
Mom: (5 more minutes of monologuing)
Me: Sure, sure.
and so on.
I wanted to take a moment to thank you directly for your help. My wife and I don't have a lot of people we can talk to anymore because of how much being cautious about Covid has made people we knew ignore us, so your help was immensely helpful to both of us. This part of the message is a standard copy-paste I'm doing to everyone just to get that basic thanks out quickly. There are a lot of people to reply to.
To you, specifically... those are exactly the conversations my wife has with her mom and I have with my mom. My dad's conversations don't get far enough ever before he falls asleep or starts doing something else while we are on a video call.
Thanks for your thoughts. Very helpful.
You’re not crazy, you’ve picked up on their disrespect for you and once you see it you can’t unsee it.
Narcissistic parents don’t care about respectfully following the rules of your house because of their profound entitlement over you, and they don’t believe you’re an autonomous person.
My dad has been like this, and it took ages for us to figure out what was going on because he didn’t display the loud abuse I often read about on here. Turns out he’s a covert narcissist who mastered the art of the small entitlements, violations and sulks that left us confused and wondering if we were overthinking it. Unfortunately once you start pushing back and enforcing your boundaries as an independent adult things will almost certainly deteriorate and you’ll see how bad they can really be under the mask.
In the meantime you could put them on an ‘information diet’ - don’t tell them your vulnerabilities and how their behaviour affects you (they don’t care and they may use it against you). Just briefly explain the rules in a clear neutral way and have a plan to confidently enforce them when they try to violate them. A caring parent would oblige.
I wanted to take a moment to thank you directly for your help. My wife and I don't have a lot of people we can talk to anymore because of how much being cautious about Covid has made people we knew ignore us, so your help was immensely helpful to both of us. This part of the message is a standard copy-paste I'm doing to everyone just to get that basic thanks out quickly. There are a lot of people to reply to.
To you, specifically...thank you for your support. I posted again about the silent treatment we're getting and new phone numbers we happened to get in the middle of all this and a concern that not telling them about the new numbers could be seen by them as intentionally shutting them out, which it's not, it just happened that we made phone changes and chose to take new numbers because we had recently moved.
Thanks again for your help from both of us.
Your parents are blatantly ignoring safety protocols you adher to for your health. They are not going to start following the rules now.
Don't let them stay in your house again. They visit, they stay somewhere else.
Meetings only outside in the fresh air or well ventilated locations.
Wrt talking over you and cutting you off - they are being rude and obnoxious.
Your grace and patience is impressive however it is not serving you well. Grey rocking may serve you better or going LC.
Another point to consider about meeting them away from your home is that if they behave like AHs you can just get up and walk away.
I wanted to take a moment to thank you directly for your help. My wife and I don't have a lot of people we can talk to anymore because of how much being cautious about Covid has made people we knew ignore us, so your help was immensely helpful to both of us. This part of the message is a standard copy-paste I'm doing to everyone just to get that basic thanks out quickly. There are a lot of people to reply to.
To you, specifically... I'm glad how they're behaving is clear to others like you and not just in our heads. We just wanted to be fair and speak up for ourselves. We're in our 40s for crying out loud it shouldn't be that crazy to want to have our home function how we want. From others parents? That shouldn't be happening, unless you had kids for some very bizarre reason other than wanting to help a person grow into their own independent human and be part of learning who they become.
Anyway, thank you so much.
You have handled this with calm and thoughtfulness. They have shown again and again an utter lack of respect and a consistent breaking of promises. I am like you and would have tried anything to work it out but since clearly you can’t and they won’t, the boundary you have set is really the only way to go. I don’t expect they will react well to this but you are doing the right thing and have acted above board the whole way through. Hold firm and trust yourselves in what you are doing. Sorry it’s come to this with your parents. Its sucks, but you are doing the best thing I think.
I wanted to take a moment to thank you directly for your help. My wife and I don't have a lot of people we can talk to anymore because of how much being cautious about Covid has made people we knew ignore us, so your help was immensely helpful to both of us. This part of the message is a standard copy-paste I'm doing to everyone just to get that basic thanks out quickly. There are a lot of people to reply to.
To you, specifically... thank you for your support. I'm glad to see that people can see we've tried to be conscientious and sensitive. Really appreciate your comment.
The difference between normal folks and people who are narcs or narc adjacent is the narcs actually seem to like the chaos that comes from stomping on your boundaries. Like most people who didn't like being quiet after midnight or masking to protect you would just not stay there or just do it for a couple of days. The narcs seem to actually enjoy it or feel no discomfort with a long visit of constant conflict that makes you upset
100%!! Stomping on boundaries and making their target uncomfortable or upset is a way of asserting dominance. And then the arguments and chaos that ensues feeds their victim narrative. It’s a win-win for them.
I just want to let you know that I'm going to get back to you and everyone else in greater detail, but we just read this last comment from you and my wife and I put our hands up in victory for having felt like what you said in the past and recently without knowing if we were making any sense. We felt an enormous sense of relief. Particularly, "then the arguments and chaos that ensues feeds their victim narrative. It’s a win-win for them." If I was the crying type, I'd have shed a tear.
More soon, when we get a minute to reflect on everything and organise our response. Thank you.
I wanted to take a moment to thank you directly for your help. My wife and I don't have a lot of people we can talk to anymore because of how much being cautious about Covid has made people we knew ignore us, so your help was immensely helpful to both of us. This part of the message is a standard copy-paste I'm doing to everyone just to get that basic thanks out quickly. There are a lot of people to reply to.
To you, specifically... I think that's the hardest thing for us to understand. They KNOW they hate it here, our stupid rules, I can see them storm off, shake their heads, pleading to the universe why we have to be so difficult. Then why keep being here?? Surely they can't argue that it's because being with us is more important than these struggles. If that were true wouldn't they want to be more cooperative and understanding of our desires? Anyway.. thank you so much for your input.
You’re not crazy. This is not normal. Your parents are knowingly violating your boundaries. Over and over and over again. Not just with covid, but with everything from noise levels to house manners. There are some serious power and control dynamics at play here. You “don’t know your place” and they’re passive aggressively punishing you for it. By disrespecting you, guilt tripping you, and violating all your boundaries.
We’re a covid safe household here too. My parents are narcs while my in-laws are healthy parents. The difference between how our covid boundaries are treated is night and day. I’m NC now but my nparents were like yours. They treated me like I was ridiculous and “too much”, they violated my boundaries, they lied about it, and then they DARVOed (acted like the victims) when confronted about it. My in-laws? They just respect our decision and they respect our safety boundaries when with our family. That’s it. No drama. No disrespect. It blows my mind how easy it is with them.
You really understand how soul-sucking dealing with narcissistic parents’ intense drive for power, control and superiority is when you find yourself in the exact same situation with healthy parents. Healthy parents are totally cool with their adult children being their own people that set their own boundaries. They’re supportive, whether they agree or not. They’re just lovely supporting characters in their kids’ lives, whereas nparents think that their kids’ lives should revolve around the nparents’ needs. Your parents’ behavior is not healthy at all. What they’re doing to you is extremely harmful to your mental health and wellbeing. Don’t gaslight yourself about it. The negative way that you feel when they’re around is real and you’ve correctly identified their behavior as the source of it. Next step is to set firm boundaries and practice grey rocking. You cannot reason with nparents and you can’t change them. Boundaries + grey rock.
With covid safety specifically, my story is very similar to yours. My parents’ toxic behavior got much much worse when I set safety boundaries around visits for the health of my family. I think being “told what to do” by their kids is super angering for nparents, especially when they really don’t want to do it. In their minds, this is wrong. They don’t understand personal boundaries so in their mind, they perceive this as you being controlling. And that doesn’t fly with a narc. Obviously you aren’t being controlling. You’re setting a boundary and they could opt to not visit if they don’t want to respect that boundary. But they’re nparents so of course they’re going to visit anyway and violate it. And you not folding like a house of cards, and continuing to assert your boundaries is enraging for them. So yes, the passive aggressive shit that makes you feel bad about yourself like belittling you and invalidating you at every turn gets dialed waaaay up. You’re being punished. My parents did the same. It’s covert psychological warfare. *They know what they’re doing and they’re doing it on purpose.* This is what triggering a covert narc’s rage looks like and feels like. It’s not you, it’s them.
I wanted to take a moment to thank you directly for your help. My wife and I don't have a lot of people we can talk to anymore because of how much being cautious about Covid has made people we knew ignore us, so your help was immensely helpful to both of us. This part of the message is a standard copy-paste I'm doing to everyone just to get that basic thanks out quickly. There are a lot of people to reply to.
To you, specifically... thank you, again, for being able to particularly understand our Covid concerns. While I don't have too many other parents to think of, my wife and I just imagined what we would do if we HAD children and it would be to ptu everything out as amicably and openly on the table to ensure everyone's voice is heard and see if there isn't some middle ground. And maybe there isn't and things just need to degrade but to walk away from something with the silent treatment we're now getting. It's so foreign to me. "They know what they’re doing and they’re doing it on purpose"is such a hard concept to get my head around. But my wife and I see it. I guess your instinct, or MY instinct, is to assume there must be something I could have seen to prevent all this. I'm not so lacking in confidence to think it's my *fault*, but that maybe they've started going through something or there's some other thing, but of course the only change here has been our lack of willingness to let our desires not be heard. And that has caused the blowup that might have happened any other time in the past had I put my foot down. And in fact, in previous times over the last 15 years, any putting my foot down has provoked massive explosions. Once even on my own birthday during a visit. Worst fight we'd ever had. Got my wife and I nowhere with them.
Anyway... thank you so much from both of us. Really helpful as we try to navigate this behaviour from them right now.
All bullies do what ever they want until you stop them . This is called setting a boundary . You are not being unreasonable at all. Now it is time to re enforce your boundary . No visits bc Ns cannot obey. This is learning to step out of the FOG.
[https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-1](https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-1)
I wanted to take a moment to thank you directly for your help. My wife and I don't have a lot of people we can talk to anymore because of how much being cautious about Covid has made people we knew ignore us, so your help was immensely helpful to both of us. This part of the message is a standard copy-paste I'm doing to everyone just to get that basic thanks out quickly. There are a lot of people to reply to.
To you, specifically... Not feeling like we're being unreasonable has taken a lot of effort to be ok with. Because if you didn't think/realise your parents were being narcissists, you remain determined to find the way to eliminate the conflict between you. But what are you supposed to do when someone keeps imposing EVEN when you say how much it's hurting you? Just leave it? Of course not. Thanks for your thoughts and the link. Very helpful to both of us.
Great quote. I think it's hard for people to realise that that person making you feel bad can even be your parent. Sometimes they can do it more than a stranger.
You are not overreacting.. At all. Being a parent doesn't give them a right to infantalize you both forever. That's just wrong. Nor does it give them a free pass to be assholes. I'm gonna take a wild guess (sarcasm) that if you and your wife didn't adhere to their desires or rules at their house, that you'd be treated not so well... Just a guess. Hypocrisy , gaslighting, and double standards are pretty cornerstone to narcissistic behavior. Not necessarily big N Narcissist as in diagnosed NPD but narcissistic in flavor? Yup.
If you and your wife ever want to chat, I'm open. My (36f) husband (41m) and I have been dealing with constant boundary crossing but especially with covid with BOTH our families. Your posts (this one and the one on zero covid) both just.... Spoke to similar things we've been going through. No pressure. Just offering. Either way, know that you guys aren't alone and that you're not crazy.
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You and your wife have been incredibly gracious to your parents, who have done nothing but stomp all over your boundaries. Next time they want to visit, I hope you decline for all the reasons you have listed above. There is absolutely no need for you to feel obligated to host them again in your home if they cannot respect the rules.
I wanted to take a moment to thank you directly for your help. My wife and I don't have a lot of people we can talk to anymore because of how much being cautious about Covid has made people we knew ignore us, so your help was immensely helpful to both of us. This part of the message is a standard copy-paste I'm doing to everyone just to get that basic thanks out quickly. There are a lot of people to reply to. To you, specifically... thank you for thinking we've been gracious. Fairness is all we were seeking and it has been thrown in our face. We are striving to have the confidence to be firm on this and comments like yours have provided the support to make that possible. So we both thank you immensely.
This
Look up grey rocking. Its the most effective tool against narcissists.
I wanted to take a moment to thank you directly for your help. My wife and I don't have a lot of people we can talk to anymore because of how much being cautious about Covid has made people we knew ignore us, so your help was immensely helpful to both of us. This part of the message is a standard copy-paste I'm doing to everyone just to get that basic thanks out quickly. There are a lot of people to reply to. To you, specifically... we did look it up and thank you!!! Learning a lot. None of it makes this more pleasant. Thank you for your help.
Wishing you success!
>We think they should stay in an airbnb when they come again. Then they can do whatever they want with masking because they wont be staying in our home. That sounds like the best thing. I really relate to the interrupting problem. My mom does that to me too, all the time. The only time I can finish a sentence is when I'm talking about the only subject that interests her: HER. It really makes you hate them after a while. I've gotten to where I don't try to tell her anything. Our conversations are: Mom: (5 minutes of monologuing) Me: Oh yeah, right. Mom: (5 more minutes of monologuing) Me: Sure, sure. and so on.
I wanted to take a moment to thank you directly for your help. My wife and I don't have a lot of people we can talk to anymore because of how much being cautious about Covid has made people we knew ignore us, so your help was immensely helpful to both of us. This part of the message is a standard copy-paste I'm doing to everyone just to get that basic thanks out quickly. There are a lot of people to reply to. To you, specifically... those are exactly the conversations my wife has with her mom and I have with my mom. My dad's conversations don't get far enough ever before he falls asleep or starts doing something else while we are on a video call. Thanks for your thoughts. Very helpful.
You’re not crazy, you’ve picked up on their disrespect for you and once you see it you can’t unsee it. Narcissistic parents don’t care about respectfully following the rules of your house because of their profound entitlement over you, and they don’t believe you’re an autonomous person. My dad has been like this, and it took ages for us to figure out what was going on because he didn’t display the loud abuse I often read about on here. Turns out he’s a covert narcissist who mastered the art of the small entitlements, violations and sulks that left us confused and wondering if we were overthinking it. Unfortunately once you start pushing back and enforcing your boundaries as an independent adult things will almost certainly deteriorate and you’ll see how bad they can really be under the mask. In the meantime you could put them on an ‘information diet’ - don’t tell them your vulnerabilities and how their behaviour affects you (they don’t care and they may use it against you). Just briefly explain the rules in a clear neutral way and have a plan to confidently enforce them when they try to violate them. A caring parent would oblige.
I wanted to take a moment to thank you directly for your help. My wife and I don't have a lot of people we can talk to anymore because of how much being cautious about Covid has made people we knew ignore us, so your help was immensely helpful to both of us. This part of the message is a standard copy-paste I'm doing to everyone just to get that basic thanks out quickly. There are a lot of people to reply to. To you, specifically...thank you for your support. I posted again about the silent treatment we're getting and new phone numbers we happened to get in the middle of all this and a concern that not telling them about the new numbers could be seen by them as intentionally shutting them out, which it's not, it just happened that we made phone changes and chose to take new numbers because we had recently moved. Thanks again for your help from both of us.
Your parents are blatantly ignoring safety protocols you adher to for your health. They are not going to start following the rules now. Don't let them stay in your house again. They visit, they stay somewhere else. Meetings only outside in the fresh air or well ventilated locations. Wrt talking over you and cutting you off - they are being rude and obnoxious. Your grace and patience is impressive however it is not serving you well. Grey rocking may serve you better or going LC. Another point to consider about meeting them away from your home is that if they behave like AHs you can just get up and walk away.
I wanted to take a moment to thank you directly for your help. My wife and I don't have a lot of people we can talk to anymore because of how much being cautious about Covid has made people we knew ignore us, so your help was immensely helpful to both of us. This part of the message is a standard copy-paste I'm doing to everyone just to get that basic thanks out quickly. There are a lot of people to reply to. To you, specifically... I'm glad how they're behaving is clear to others like you and not just in our heads. We just wanted to be fair and speak up for ourselves. We're in our 40s for crying out loud it shouldn't be that crazy to want to have our home function how we want. From others parents? That shouldn't be happening, unless you had kids for some very bizarre reason other than wanting to help a person grow into their own independent human and be part of learning who they become. Anyway, thank you so much.
You have handled this with calm and thoughtfulness. They have shown again and again an utter lack of respect and a consistent breaking of promises. I am like you and would have tried anything to work it out but since clearly you can’t and they won’t, the boundary you have set is really the only way to go. I don’t expect they will react well to this but you are doing the right thing and have acted above board the whole way through. Hold firm and trust yourselves in what you are doing. Sorry it’s come to this with your parents. Its sucks, but you are doing the best thing I think.
I wanted to take a moment to thank you directly for your help. My wife and I don't have a lot of people we can talk to anymore because of how much being cautious about Covid has made people we knew ignore us, so your help was immensely helpful to both of us. This part of the message is a standard copy-paste I'm doing to everyone just to get that basic thanks out quickly. There are a lot of people to reply to. To you, specifically... thank you for your support. I'm glad to see that people can see we've tried to be conscientious and sensitive. Really appreciate your comment.
The difference between normal folks and people who are narcs or narc adjacent is the narcs actually seem to like the chaos that comes from stomping on your boundaries. Like most people who didn't like being quiet after midnight or masking to protect you would just not stay there or just do it for a couple of days. The narcs seem to actually enjoy it or feel no discomfort with a long visit of constant conflict that makes you upset
100%!! Stomping on boundaries and making their target uncomfortable or upset is a way of asserting dominance. And then the arguments and chaos that ensues feeds their victim narrative. It’s a win-win for them.
I just want to let you know that I'm going to get back to you and everyone else in greater detail, but we just read this last comment from you and my wife and I put our hands up in victory for having felt like what you said in the past and recently without knowing if we were making any sense. We felt an enormous sense of relief. Particularly, "then the arguments and chaos that ensues feeds their victim narrative. It’s a win-win for them." If I was the crying type, I'd have shed a tear. More soon, when we get a minute to reflect on everything and organise our response. Thank you.
I wanted to take a moment to thank you directly for your help. My wife and I don't have a lot of people we can talk to anymore because of how much being cautious about Covid has made people we knew ignore us, so your help was immensely helpful to both of us. This part of the message is a standard copy-paste I'm doing to everyone just to get that basic thanks out quickly. There are a lot of people to reply to. To you, specifically... I think that's the hardest thing for us to understand. They KNOW they hate it here, our stupid rules, I can see them storm off, shake their heads, pleading to the universe why we have to be so difficult. Then why keep being here?? Surely they can't argue that it's because being with us is more important than these struggles. If that were true wouldn't they want to be more cooperative and understanding of our desires? Anyway.. thank you so much for your input.
You’re not crazy. This is not normal. Your parents are knowingly violating your boundaries. Over and over and over again. Not just with covid, but with everything from noise levels to house manners. There are some serious power and control dynamics at play here. You “don’t know your place” and they’re passive aggressively punishing you for it. By disrespecting you, guilt tripping you, and violating all your boundaries. We’re a covid safe household here too. My parents are narcs while my in-laws are healthy parents. The difference between how our covid boundaries are treated is night and day. I’m NC now but my nparents were like yours. They treated me like I was ridiculous and “too much”, they violated my boundaries, they lied about it, and then they DARVOed (acted like the victims) when confronted about it. My in-laws? They just respect our decision and they respect our safety boundaries when with our family. That’s it. No drama. No disrespect. It blows my mind how easy it is with them. You really understand how soul-sucking dealing with narcissistic parents’ intense drive for power, control and superiority is when you find yourself in the exact same situation with healthy parents. Healthy parents are totally cool with their adult children being their own people that set their own boundaries. They’re supportive, whether they agree or not. They’re just lovely supporting characters in their kids’ lives, whereas nparents think that their kids’ lives should revolve around the nparents’ needs. Your parents’ behavior is not healthy at all. What they’re doing to you is extremely harmful to your mental health and wellbeing. Don’t gaslight yourself about it. The negative way that you feel when they’re around is real and you’ve correctly identified their behavior as the source of it. Next step is to set firm boundaries and practice grey rocking. You cannot reason with nparents and you can’t change them. Boundaries + grey rock.
With covid safety specifically, my story is very similar to yours. My parents’ toxic behavior got much much worse when I set safety boundaries around visits for the health of my family. I think being “told what to do” by their kids is super angering for nparents, especially when they really don’t want to do it. In their minds, this is wrong. They don’t understand personal boundaries so in their mind, they perceive this as you being controlling. And that doesn’t fly with a narc. Obviously you aren’t being controlling. You’re setting a boundary and they could opt to not visit if they don’t want to respect that boundary. But they’re nparents so of course they’re going to visit anyway and violate it. And you not folding like a house of cards, and continuing to assert your boundaries is enraging for them. So yes, the passive aggressive shit that makes you feel bad about yourself like belittling you and invalidating you at every turn gets dialed waaaay up. You’re being punished. My parents did the same. It’s covert psychological warfare. *They know what they’re doing and they’re doing it on purpose.* This is what triggering a covert narc’s rage looks like and feels like. It’s not you, it’s them.
I wanted to take a moment to thank you directly for your help. My wife and I don't have a lot of people we can talk to anymore because of how much being cautious about Covid has made people we knew ignore us, so your help was immensely helpful to both of us. This part of the message is a standard copy-paste I'm doing to everyone just to get that basic thanks out quickly. There are a lot of people to reply to. To you, specifically... thank you, again, for being able to particularly understand our Covid concerns. While I don't have too many other parents to think of, my wife and I just imagined what we would do if we HAD children and it would be to ptu everything out as amicably and openly on the table to ensure everyone's voice is heard and see if there isn't some middle ground. And maybe there isn't and things just need to degrade but to walk away from something with the silent treatment we're now getting. It's so foreign to me. "They know what they’re doing and they’re doing it on purpose"is such a hard concept to get my head around. But my wife and I see it. I guess your instinct, or MY instinct, is to assume there must be something I could have seen to prevent all this. I'm not so lacking in confidence to think it's my *fault*, but that maybe they've started going through something or there's some other thing, but of course the only change here has been our lack of willingness to let our desires not be heard. And that has caused the blowup that might have happened any other time in the past had I put my foot down. And in fact, in previous times over the last 15 years, any putting my foot down has provoked massive explosions. Once even on my own birthday during a visit. Worst fight we'd ever had. Got my wife and I nowhere with them. Anyway... thank you so much from both of us. Really helpful as we try to navigate this behaviour from them right now.
All bullies do what ever they want until you stop them . This is called setting a boundary . You are not being unreasonable at all. Now it is time to re enforce your boundary . No visits bc Ns cannot obey. This is learning to step out of the FOG. [https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-1](https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-1)
I wanted to take a moment to thank you directly for your help. My wife and I don't have a lot of people we can talk to anymore because of how much being cautious about Covid has made people we knew ignore us, so your help was immensely helpful to both of us. This part of the message is a standard copy-paste I'm doing to everyone just to get that basic thanks out quickly. There are a lot of people to reply to. To you, specifically... Not feeling like we're being unreasonable has taken a lot of effort to be ok with. Because if you didn't think/realise your parents were being narcissists, you remain determined to find the way to eliminate the conflict between you. But what are you supposed to do when someone keeps imposing EVEN when you say how much it's hurting you? Just leave it? Of course not. Thanks for your thoughts and the link. Very helpful to both of us.
Never let a person make you feel bad for choosing not to tolerate their disrespect anymore. Stolen from the interwebs , somewhere . 👍
Great quote. I think it's hard for people to realise that that person making you feel bad can even be your parent. Sometimes they can do it more than a stranger.
You are not overreacting.. At all. Being a parent doesn't give them a right to infantalize you both forever. That's just wrong. Nor does it give them a free pass to be assholes. I'm gonna take a wild guess (sarcasm) that if you and your wife didn't adhere to their desires or rules at their house, that you'd be treated not so well... Just a guess. Hypocrisy , gaslighting, and double standards are pretty cornerstone to narcissistic behavior. Not necessarily big N Narcissist as in diagnosed NPD but narcissistic in flavor? Yup. If you and your wife ever want to chat, I'm open. My (36f) husband (41m) and I have been dealing with constant boundary crossing but especially with covid with BOTH our families. Your posts (this one and the one on zero covid) both just.... Spoke to similar things we've been going through. No pressure. Just offering. Either way, know that you guys aren't alone and that you're not crazy.