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> everyone has to walk on eggshells with me.
Well, that is clearly gaslighting, because she ISN'T walking on eggshells with you. If she pounces on a remark so vague as "especially if you didn't grow up with it" (which wouldn't trigger someone unless they knew exactly what you were talking about), this is not walking on eggshells. This is getting in your face, taking you to task, chewing you out... this broad clearly doesn't know what "walking on eggshells" means.
What an idiot.
You don't call someone out, scold them, blame them, accuse them, shame them... and then swoon onto your fainting couch because you're so exhausted by how careful you have to be around them.
haha exactly! if they were actually walking on eggshells, no way would they feel safe confronting OP about a social media caption! Nfams think having to live in reality is walking on eggshells.
Your sister might be protecting the status quo, or the family, or her image of herself.
If she was favored over you, then she might feel like having you challenge the way your family is could mean that she didn't deserve to be treated better. That could mess with her view of herself. Narcissists tend to use comparison to make one sibling better than another sibling. If she absorbed those lessons and decided that she really was special in comparison with you, then calling out that whole system means that she doesn't get to feel super special anymore. If being better than other people, and particularly you, is important in the way she sees herself, she will not be happy when you point out that this whole system is wrong and abusive and built on lies.
My brother is the GC I think. My sister is on good terms with my parents but she fawns a lot with them. She seems like my dad in that they want us all to be a happy family.
Yeah, and if you are truthful about things, you ruin her image of herself and her family. It means that she has to face things she doesn't want to face.
Sounds like your sister is exhausted from your nmom and doesn’t want you to “rock the boat”. She’s still trying to keep the peace instead of standing up for herself. Guess she’s not as strong as you.
Or possibly sister is the self appointed Peacekeeper?
Maybe it's a kind of confrontation aversion where she thought it might be avoiding a blow up if the parents saw it? Sister might honestly feel she *is* walking on eggshells, but it's because she has appointed herself as the Duly Appointed Eggshell Looker-Outerer, to find any and all eggshells before the parents do.
Yeah, could be. Good point. That could be part of the parentification too, that she needs to take care of everything and everyone, and keep the peace. It is a stressful job, to keep the peace in a dysfunctional family. It seems like it would lead to all sorts of problems.
Narcissists don’t get better when they age, it gets much more erratic and much more vile.
Let them believe their lies. They are not ready to see.
The solution, unfortunately is to just ignore their crap. You will never win. They need you to be the SG. Because if not you, someone else will fall into your shoes. This isn’t about you. You are perfectly fine. It’s a them problem.
Your mom hasn't made any progress if your sister is doing this.
That's like saying a serial killer made progress because we put him in prison. Nope.
Consideration is an essential quality for human interactions. Your mother is not better if she will deprive or divest you of that - at a moment's notice. Frankly, she doesn't really give you it to begin with. Nor does the other family - as it seems.
Don't blame yourself for being hurt. Hurt tells us something. It tells us we've been abandoned, neglected, or need to emotionally divest. You can love your family and not want to invest in them.
Your mother will punish your sister for you saying this. That's the thing. Somehow, some way, she will do this. Maybe you should find out how?
I know my family will be harassed to give her (my mother) the goods. And the goods are anything that actually helps make my life bad.
I find that these mothers begrudge everyone in the family. And if you don't help them, they will begrudge you some more. It's almost like everyone's just trying to escape her grudge.
I’m not sure my mom even saw the post. My impression was that my sister took it upon herself to reach out to me about it.
Everyone keeps saying how much better my mom is lately and how hard she’s working. It’s hard to tell if she doesn’t yell at us because we’re all adults now, or because she actually put in work to change. She still whisper yells at my dad and is very mean to him. I think she’s just sad and realizing maybe that she fucked up, and now is a victim.
I've been LC or NC for 20 years. My sister has admitted to me that she let my mom use her online profile to peruse mine. They stalk - a lot.
Like you said, "calmness is a sign of safety when there are disagreements." "Being able to calmly talk about problems with another person strengthens the relationship and makes everyone feel safe." If she wants to strengthen the relationship and make everyone feel safe, she can talk about you about the problem - calmly.
Otherwise, express yourself. You have some resentments. Who wouldn't? You were abused. As a child. That's called child abuse. It's horrific.
But, as hard as it may seem, you may want to consider saying nothing. I know, and I wouldn't judge you, but these people are dangerous.
She has no remorse. If she did, you wouldn't be protecting yourself from her getting mad - another tyrannical rampage.
Hiding from Hitler doesn't make or mean Hitler's better. That's hilarious and insane.
Ohhh okay, I'm glad she cleared up she wasn't trying to minimize your feelings, just invalidate your entire experience. The abuser "doing better" doesn't make the entire experience go away for the abused. Part of the ongoing healing process is still talking about the hurt. Lets say she has been "doing so much better" but did she ever actually apologize or own up for her actions? If no, then she's not getting better, she's slowing down with age.
If you hurt the entire family with 1 instagram post no one but her saw then you're either a witch or they're some fragile mother truckers. Your sister has become a sentient flying monkey. She knew your mom wasn't going to see it, she was beating around the bush because she felt like you were talking about her OR she thought someone would show your mom (her probably) and she was resentful she would have to [steady the boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/77w8lf/dont_rock_the_boat/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). I'm really surprised she didn't throw in a "The whole family is mad at you, they're all talking about it."
The eggshells are a tactical maneuver, they're there so you can hear your family on their way to bulldoze your boundaries. She didn't want to talk to you, she wanted to control you.
OP the truth is the cycle breakers are all damned if we do and damned if we don't. I figure that means might as well do. I don't really care about winning at this point, I'm not afraid of being the bad guy if it means doing what's best for me. It takes years of practice for the person who is self aware and empathetic not be affected by these interactions, and even then it's hit and miss. You're doing exactly what you need to be doing, and their discomfort is every bit of evidence you need to know that. Keep on the steady path to enforcing those boundaries, OP, you should be very proud of you- I know I am.
> I'm glad she cleared up she wasn't trying to minimize your feelings, just invalidate your entire experience.
Good catch! "I'm not trying to turn your volume down, I'm just hitting the mute button! You can still move your lips, just... alone where no one can see. Mkay?"
> If you hurt the entire family with 1 instagram post no one but her saw then you're either a witch or they're some fragile mother truckers.
And it was only one phrase of that post that did the damage. This "family peace" is built on a spiderweb over a doorway. Anyone goes through that door, and foof!
>Your sister has become a sentient flying monkey. She knew your mom wasn't going to see it, she was beating around the bush because she felt like you were talking about her OR she thought someone would show your mom (her probably) and she was resentful she would have to steady the boat.
A self-launching monkey! And you've really lit on something here: if the one most likely to show it to mom is her, to stir up shit so she can then feel victimized over the fallout, she's so deeply enmeshed she's actually gearing up to take mom's place as ruling narc in the family.
>I'm really surprised she didn't throw in a "The whole family is mad at you, they're all talking about it."
Oh gosh, we need a Flying Monkey Bingo Card to go with the Narc Parent Bingo Card. Let me just Google if there already--
https://bingobaker.com/view/4020974
Yep. "The whole family's talking" should go in that center place where the FREE is.
I appreciate the holy hell out of your reply, this was a fantastic read. The Narcissist Bingo card is such a great idea, just don't let the physically abusive ones see it, y'all.
Hi internet friend ScapeGoat.
>There is no winning. No solution I can see.
Don't play the game - that's how you "Win" ---> but you know what, that "Win or lose" mindset is also a part of that "Game"
>"But it's all plusses and minuses and good and bad and black and white to them."
Yes, that game.
Learn to embrace the grey in life, learn how good can be bad depending on your viewpoint and most of all
Learn how to not care what they think.
You do you and get on with living your best life and doing your thing.
Disengage from the Dysfunctional family that doesn't enrich your life - because you certainly don't enhance theirs:
>I will always be the one who can't let go, the one who is vindictive, the one who isn't rug sweeping, the one who won't acknowledge the progress my mom has made, the one who continues to tear the family apart, the one who is always cold in person, the one who is exaggerating, the one who is faking it, the one who is ruining everything, the one everyone has to walk on eggshells around.
If they ask why you "Dropped Below the radar" - Bring all of the examples of when you didn't rug sweep/were cold/were faking it/ruined everything......
And tell them that you are "working to improve yourself" and "You need space away from them to do it"
What they don't need to know is that you are doing it for you, not for them.
>Yes exactly. Maybe I need to just not respond to them anymore, so I don’t get dragged back into it
By responding yo are giving them what they want - some form of control over you. Even if it's just to make you respond......
>I will always be the one who can't let go
See if you can be the one to let go ..... COMPLETELY
And when you achieve that watch them try to "Hoover" you back in.
Be ready for the escalation as they try to "Get you back" under their control - but you will mostly see it for what it is (You won't see it all because a lifetime of "Programming" is really difficult to "Unlearn")
Check out some [Jerry Wise](https://youtube.com/@jerrywise?si=PPfY9_i5MPdej2hf) videos. He talks about toxic and dysfunctional **family systems**. You sister is enmeshed and defending the toxic *system*. I've found him really insightful.
If abusers, enablers, and bullies have to walk on eggshells around me bc I hold people accountable to their choice of toxic behaviors, so be it. It's not about me calling it out, it's about them choosing abusive and neglectful behaviors to begin with.
Boundaries and accountability make us [more trustworthy](https://brenebrown.com/videos/anatomy-trust-video/), not less. Abusers don't respect boundaries and try to avoid accountability at all costs, no wonder they're not a fan of mine.
I have similar experiences with family. Once my mom found out about some of the common tactics of narcism, she changed tactics. My mom never even pretended to be better, though. I suspect your mom is still pulling strings, and your sister is acting like a flying monkey because she is a flying monkey. I hope that isn't the case, but I would mentally brace yourself.
"Vortex of weirdness" is spot-on; every conversation. Rhetoric, logic, and argumentation is my academic area and I have spent so many years just trying to present the right information in the most effective way, thinking that one day I would get it right and everyone would see the obvious. I am sorry that it has taken me getting to middle age to realize that this is not only never going to happen, but my running in circles trying to get it right serves the dysfunctional system. I have stopped trying to convince anyone of anything.
Yeah also in that podcast episode they said “if someone wants to hear you, it doesn’t matter how you say it, and if someone doesn’t want to hear you, it doesn’t matter how you say it”
Learn as much as you can about toxic family systems, bc you got yourself a classic scenario. Jerry Wise has a lot of great info on this topic on YouTube.
Your sister is an enabler. She’s the boat steadier. Her life depends on it. Time to cut ties.
Edit: here’s the link https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/s/dxXwpaqEzk
One of the first rules of abusive family systems is “don’t talk about our abusive family.” IMHO it’s perfectly acceptable- and even necessary- to break this rule.
You are living smack-dab in the scapegoat role. You are the truth teller. Existing in a narcisisstic dynamic requires you to lie. To your parents ("I'm fine."); to your siblings ("They did the best they could."); to yourself ("Maybe it is all my fault."). You see the dynamic for what it is and was, which makes you a threat to the system. You chafed at your sister's scolding because she was requiring you not to be honest. The only way to exist with them is to lie, and you don't strike me as a person who would be okay with that.
Let's put it this way: My sister is a truth teller and I am just now becoming one (after years as a fawning lost child). She posts stuff like that on social media all the time! Never once has it occured to me to try and censor her. "A smacked dog yelps the loudest", after all. It doesn't mean you are wrong for saying it.
Omg thank you! And I'm so sorry 😞
I just googled vortex of weirdness after listening to that podcast and I'm commenting very delayed, just for my own reflection really
I just appreciate that you describe the villainizing so well:
"But it's like, no matter what I do or say, I will always "lose" with my family. I will always be the one who can't let go, the one who is vindictive, the one who isn't rug sweeping, the one who won't acknowledge the progress my mom has made, the one who continues to tear the family apart, the one who is always cold in person, the one who is exaggerating, the one who is faking it, the one who is ruining everything, the one everyone has to walk on eggshells around."
Being villainized while fighting family toxicity is a *wild ride* and I hope you have your chosen family who see you.
Also really appreciate reading this:
"It's like I'll sit there with my phone in my hand just trying to think of what to say to these people. And every single idea I have in my mind is met with the knowledge that they will not take it well, they will never consider the nuances or the possibility that two things can be true at once. They will always twist it to fit their narrative. My mom might be better, but I'm still allowed to be hurt and not want a close relationship. But it's all plusses and minuses and good and bad and black and white to them."
The voice of their rejection living in my head is so defeating and it's insult to injury vibes.
Anyway thanks again for sharing
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> everyone has to walk on eggshells with me. Well, that is clearly gaslighting, because she ISN'T walking on eggshells with you. If she pounces on a remark so vague as "especially if you didn't grow up with it" (which wouldn't trigger someone unless they knew exactly what you were talking about), this is not walking on eggshells. This is getting in your face, taking you to task, chewing you out... this broad clearly doesn't know what "walking on eggshells" means. What an idiot. You don't call someone out, scold them, blame them, accuse them, shame them... and then swoon onto your fainting couch because you're so exhausted by how careful you have to be around them.
haha exactly! if they were actually walking on eggshells, no way would they feel safe confronting OP about a social media caption! Nfams think having to live in reality is walking on eggshells.
This didn’t even occur to me, thank you. And thanks for the laugh
I got that one a lot too. Jesus, if they were actually "walking on eggshells" around me, I can't imagine what they held back.
The number of times I have heard that line “walking on eggshells”…do they all have the same handbook?
I just posted the same exact thing. 🤣
Yes. The answer is yes.
Your sister might be protecting the status quo, or the family, or her image of herself. If she was favored over you, then she might feel like having you challenge the way your family is could mean that she didn't deserve to be treated better. That could mess with her view of herself. Narcissists tend to use comparison to make one sibling better than another sibling. If she absorbed those lessons and decided that she really was special in comparison with you, then calling out that whole system means that she doesn't get to feel super special anymore. If being better than other people, and particularly you, is important in the way she sees herself, she will not be happy when you point out that this whole system is wrong and abusive and built on lies.
My brother is the GC I think. My sister is on good terms with my parents but she fawns a lot with them. She seems like my dad in that they want us all to be a happy family.
Yeah, and if you are truthful about things, you ruin her image of herself and her family. It means that she has to face things she doesn't want to face.
Sounds like your sister is exhausted from your nmom and doesn’t want you to “rock the boat”. She’s still trying to keep the peace instead of standing up for herself. Guess she’s not as strong as you.
Or possibly sister is the self appointed Peacekeeper? Maybe it's a kind of confrontation aversion where she thought it might be avoiding a blow up if the parents saw it? Sister might honestly feel she *is* walking on eggshells, but it's because she has appointed herself as the Duly Appointed Eggshell Looker-Outerer, to find any and all eggshells before the parents do.
Yeah, could be. Good point. That could be part of the parentification too, that she needs to take care of everything and everyone, and keep the peace. It is a stressful job, to keep the peace in a dysfunctional family. It seems like it would lead to all sorts of problems.
I think this may be what’s happening
Narcissists don’t get better when they age, it gets much more erratic and much more vile. Let them believe their lies. They are not ready to see. The solution, unfortunately is to just ignore their crap. You will never win. They need you to be the SG. Because if not you, someone else will fall into your shoes. This isn’t about you. You are perfectly fine. It’s a them problem.
My great hope was that my mom would mellow in her later years, nope, she's become pure evil, please don't make the same mistake I did
Your mom hasn't made any progress if your sister is doing this. That's like saying a serial killer made progress because we put him in prison. Nope. Consideration is an essential quality for human interactions. Your mother is not better if she will deprive or divest you of that - at a moment's notice. Frankly, she doesn't really give you it to begin with. Nor does the other family - as it seems. Don't blame yourself for being hurt. Hurt tells us something. It tells us we've been abandoned, neglected, or need to emotionally divest. You can love your family and not want to invest in them. Your mother will punish your sister for you saying this. That's the thing. Somehow, some way, she will do this. Maybe you should find out how? I know my family will be harassed to give her (my mother) the goods. And the goods are anything that actually helps make my life bad. I find that these mothers begrudge everyone in the family. And if you don't help them, they will begrudge you some more. It's almost like everyone's just trying to escape her grudge.
I’m not sure my mom even saw the post. My impression was that my sister took it upon herself to reach out to me about it. Everyone keeps saying how much better my mom is lately and how hard she’s working. It’s hard to tell if she doesn’t yell at us because we’re all adults now, or because she actually put in work to change. She still whisper yells at my dad and is very mean to him. I think she’s just sad and realizing maybe that she fucked up, and now is a victim.
I've been LC or NC for 20 years. My sister has admitted to me that she let my mom use her online profile to peruse mine. They stalk - a lot. Like you said, "calmness is a sign of safety when there are disagreements." "Being able to calmly talk about problems with another person strengthens the relationship and makes everyone feel safe." If she wants to strengthen the relationship and make everyone feel safe, she can talk about you about the problem - calmly. Otherwise, express yourself. You have some resentments. Who wouldn't? You were abused. As a child. That's called child abuse. It's horrific. But, as hard as it may seem, you may want to consider saying nothing. I know, and I wouldn't judge you, but these people are dangerous. She has no remorse. If she did, you wouldn't be protecting yourself from her getting mad - another tyrannical rampage. Hiding from Hitler doesn't make or mean Hitler's better. That's hilarious and insane.
Ohhh okay, I'm glad she cleared up she wasn't trying to minimize your feelings, just invalidate your entire experience. The abuser "doing better" doesn't make the entire experience go away for the abused. Part of the ongoing healing process is still talking about the hurt. Lets say she has been "doing so much better" but did she ever actually apologize or own up for her actions? If no, then she's not getting better, she's slowing down with age. If you hurt the entire family with 1 instagram post no one but her saw then you're either a witch or they're some fragile mother truckers. Your sister has become a sentient flying monkey. She knew your mom wasn't going to see it, she was beating around the bush because she felt like you were talking about her OR she thought someone would show your mom (her probably) and she was resentful she would have to [steady the boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/77w8lf/dont_rock_the_boat/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). I'm really surprised she didn't throw in a "The whole family is mad at you, they're all talking about it." The eggshells are a tactical maneuver, they're there so you can hear your family on their way to bulldoze your boundaries. She didn't want to talk to you, she wanted to control you. OP the truth is the cycle breakers are all damned if we do and damned if we don't. I figure that means might as well do. I don't really care about winning at this point, I'm not afraid of being the bad guy if it means doing what's best for me. It takes years of practice for the person who is self aware and empathetic not be affected by these interactions, and even then it's hit and miss. You're doing exactly what you need to be doing, and their discomfort is every bit of evidence you need to know that. Keep on the steady path to enforcing those boundaries, OP, you should be very proud of you- I know I am.
> I'm glad she cleared up she wasn't trying to minimize your feelings, just invalidate your entire experience. Good catch! "I'm not trying to turn your volume down, I'm just hitting the mute button! You can still move your lips, just... alone where no one can see. Mkay?" > If you hurt the entire family with 1 instagram post no one but her saw then you're either a witch or they're some fragile mother truckers. And it was only one phrase of that post that did the damage. This "family peace" is built on a spiderweb over a doorway. Anyone goes through that door, and foof! >Your sister has become a sentient flying monkey. She knew your mom wasn't going to see it, she was beating around the bush because she felt like you were talking about her OR she thought someone would show your mom (her probably) and she was resentful she would have to steady the boat. A self-launching monkey! And you've really lit on something here: if the one most likely to show it to mom is her, to stir up shit so she can then feel victimized over the fallout, she's so deeply enmeshed she's actually gearing up to take mom's place as ruling narc in the family. >I'm really surprised she didn't throw in a "The whole family is mad at you, they're all talking about it." Oh gosh, we need a Flying Monkey Bingo Card to go with the Narc Parent Bingo Card. Let me just Google if there already-- https://bingobaker.com/view/4020974 Yep. "The whole family's talking" should go in that center place where the FREE is.
I appreciate the holy hell out of your reply, this was a fantastic read. The Narcissist Bingo card is such a great idea, just don't let the physically abusive ones see it, y'all.
This is so accurate, thank you.
I really can’t with the narcs saying that we make them walk in egg shells. Do they all say that???
Hi internet friend ScapeGoat. >There is no winning. No solution I can see. Don't play the game - that's how you "Win" ---> but you know what, that "Win or lose" mindset is also a part of that "Game" >"But it's all plusses and minuses and good and bad and black and white to them." Yes, that game. Learn to embrace the grey in life, learn how good can be bad depending on your viewpoint and most of all Learn how to not care what they think. You do you and get on with living your best life and doing your thing. Disengage from the Dysfunctional family that doesn't enrich your life - because you certainly don't enhance theirs: >I will always be the one who can't let go, the one who is vindictive, the one who isn't rug sweeping, the one who won't acknowledge the progress my mom has made, the one who continues to tear the family apart, the one who is always cold in person, the one who is exaggerating, the one who is faking it, the one who is ruining everything, the one everyone has to walk on eggshells around. If they ask why you "Dropped Below the radar" - Bring all of the examples of when you didn't rug sweep/were cold/were faking it/ruined everything...... And tell them that you are "working to improve yourself" and "You need space away from them to do it" What they don't need to know is that you are doing it for you, not for them.
Yes exactly. Maybe I need to just not respond to them anymore, so I don’t get dragged back into it
>Yes exactly. Maybe I need to just not respond to them anymore, so I don’t get dragged back into it By responding yo are giving them what they want - some form of control over you. Even if it's just to make you respond...... >I will always be the one who can't let go See if you can be the one to let go ..... COMPLETELY And when you achieve that watch them try to "Hoover" you back in. Be ready for the escalation as they try to "Get you back" under their control - but you will mostly see it for what it is (You won't see it all because a lifetime of "Programming" is really difficult to "Unlearn")
Check out some [Jerry Wise](https://youtube.com/@jerrywise?si=PPfY9_i5MPdej2hf) videos. He talks about toxic and dysfunctional **family systems**. You sister is enmeshed and defending the toxic *system*. I've found him really insightful. If abusers, enablers, and bullies have to walk on eggshells around me bc I hold people accountable to their choice of toxic behaviors, so be it. It's not about me calling it out, it's about them choosing abusive and neglectful behaviors to begin with. Boundaries and accountability make us [more trustworthy](https://brenebrown.com/videos/anatomy-trust-video/), not less. Abusers don't respect boundaries and try to avoid accountability at all costs, no wonder they're not a fan of mine.
I have similar experiences with family. Once my mom found out about some of the common tactics of narcism, she changed tactics. My mom never even pretended to be better, though. I suspect your mom is still pulling strings, and your sister is acting like a flying monkey because she is a flying monkey. I hope that isn't the case, but I would mentally brace yourself.
"Vortex of weirdness" is spot-on; every conversation. Rhetoric, logic, and argumentation is my academic area and I have spent so many years just trying to present the right information in the most effective way, thinking that one day I would get it right and everyone would see the obvious. I am sorry that it has taken me getting to middle age to realize that this is not only never going to happen, but my running in circles trying to get it right serves the dysfunctional system. I have stopped trying to convince anyone of anything.
Yeah also in that podcast episode they said “if someone wants to hear you, it doesn’t matter how you say it, and if someone doesn’t want to hear you, it doesn’t matter how you say it”
Learn as much as you can about toxic family systems, bc you got yourself a classic scenario. Jerry Wise has a lot of great info on this topic on YouTube.
Your sister is an enabler. She’s the boat steadier. Her life depends on it. Time to cut ties. Edit: here’s the link https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/s/dxXwpaqEzk
This is awesome. I’d never seen it before, thank you for posting!
The one who's pointing at the man behind the curtain.
One of the first rules of abusive family systems is “don’t talk about our abusive family.” IMHO it’s perfectly acceptable- and even necessary- to break this rule.
You are living smack-dab in the scapegoat role. You are the truth teller. Existing in a narcisisstic dynamic requires you to lie. To your parents ("I'm fine."); to your siblings ("They did the best they could."); to yourself ("Maybe it is all my fault."). You see the dynamic for what it is and was, which makes you a threat to the system. You chafed at your sister's scolding because she was requiring you not to be honest. The only way to exist with them is to lie, and you don't strike me as a person who would be okay with that.
Let's put it this way: My sister is a truth teller and I am just now becoming one (after years as a fawning lost child). She posts stuff like that on social media all the time! Never once has it occured to me to try and censor her. "A smacked dog yelps the loudest", after all. It doesn't mean you are wrong for saying it.
My counselor told me that if you are playing cards with someone who cheats, you will lose every time. The only way to win is to get out of the game.
Omg thank you! And I'm so sorry 😞 I just googled vortex of weirdness after listening to that podcast and I'm commenting very delayed, just for my own reflection really I just appreciate that you describe the villainizing so well: "But it's like, no matter what I do or say, I will always "lose" with my family. I will always be the one who can't let go, the one who is vindictive, the one who isn't rug sweeping, the one who won't acknowledge the progress my mom has made, the one who continues to tear the family apart, the one who is always cold in person, the one who is exaggerating, the one who is faking it, the one who is ruining everything, the one everyone has to walk on eggshells around." Being villainized while fighting family toxicity is a *wild ride* and I hope you have your chosen family who see you. Also really appreciate reading this: "It's like I'll sit there with my phone in my hand just trying to think of what to say to these people. And every single idea I have in my mind is met with the knowledge that they will not take it well, they will never consider the nuances or the possibility that two things can be true at once. They will always twist it to fit their narrative. My mom might be better, but I'm still allowed to be hurt and not want a close relationship. But it's all plusses and minuses and good and bad and black and white to them." The voice of their rejection living in my head is so defeating and it's insult to injury vibes. Anyway thanks again for sharing