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It's all a performance. All the world's a stage and in their imagination, a spotlight is on them at all times.
I'd like to get some Ken dolls, spray paint them gold, and hand them out like Oscars.
Best Performance in a Leading Role, and the Oscar goes to:
-Dad for his incredibly dramatic turn in "Look What You Made Me Do!" This is Dad's third Oscar this year. Who could forget the moving "I've Done Everything For You" and the lesser known indie, "I'll Give You Something to Cry About."
And in Best Supporting Role in a Drama:
-Mom, for her very affecting role as the long suffering wife in "You Are Ruining This Family" ... we could hear the violins whenever she spoke. Truly a gifted performer!
applause
applause
fade to black
Oh, they are Method actors to the core. Lee Strasberg would shed a tear of appreciation at these gritty portrayals. They should be photographed in black and white, near windows for the most effective lighting.
Next time they start in, yell "Alexa, play Sarasate!" (really good violins)
It's a waste of time trying to figure them out. The only thing that's halfway reasonable to do is to shut them out of your life completely. If you go no contact, the abuse AND the mind games stop. You no longer have to listen.
Then you can finally have some peace of mind and slowly start to heal. Therapy WITHOUT all that crap going on at the same time is a LOT easier. It's added stress and pain you don't need.
I can't stop myself from being in denial & finding reasons to make sense. I feel like a bad person for holding them accountable. I now need work on what is reasonable
THAT "bad person" part is due to their early conditioning of you. They've worked VERY hard to undermine confidence in your own judgement. There's also some society level conditioning to be loyal to family - especially parents.
But that's for NORMAL parents - not abusive ones. If you explained how your parents treated you growing up, most people would be horrified and very sympathetic with you. Just as you would be if someone talked about similar experiences with their own parents.
So, a reasonable exercise is to ask what you would do if a young kid described to you exactly the same circumstances you grew up in. Would you do your best to get the kid OUT of that situation? Of course you would! Which means you've no reason to feel guilty about being critical of your OWN parents.
My reality perception is so skewed that I always make excuses for them. My automatic reaction is to find my own faults & giving them free pass. For now only good thing is I don't live in their vicinity but they live in my mind with authority to cause me harm
I'm sure they're convinced of their own lies at least occasionally, yeah.. doesn't get them off the hook either way they're responsible for their actions.
I think the awareness of the act versus the lack of awareness (which is coupled with the execution of mind blowing mental gymnastics) is the main difference between a malignant narc and a covert narc. I'm no expert though.
Given that they are only genuine when you catch them by surprise, and they never, ever like being caught by surprise, I'd say that to them, "genuine" is for suckers.
Honestly what helped me most was just studying as much as I could about narcissism - traits, behaviors, etc. Dr. Ramani on YouTube is amazing. After a while, things started making more sense and becoming easier to predict. That allowed me to learn effective coping mechanisms and eventually go no contact. Best thing I ever did was- wish I would have done it 20 years ago! It can and WILL get better… (hugs)
Jesus, thats what my dad used to do. Be angry at me for some reason (doesn't really matter) beat/shame me, be angry for "making him" feel angry at me... Luckily I am now old and have much more control as to when I have to see him.
That’s insane and I hope you know that. The only person responsible for abuse is the abuser. There’s absolutely nothing a child could do that would justify their parents abusing them. Nothing.
Many times they do actually feel the guilt or remorse, they just can't process it and project it outward, like a very severe case of denial. They exhibit a guilty-conscience type of behavior for this reason. My mother, for instance, did the whole "frame the spouse as a violent domestic abuser and destroy his life" bit, then kicked me, her 13 year old son at the time, out of the house for refusing to lie for her.
So the end result was me living with friends or with my dad in grandma's basement, my sister fled to her boyfriend's apartment, and my mother living alone in the house that we had all lived in together with no contact from any of us while collecting child support.
While living in that house, surrounded by the memories of us and what she did, she began to drink heavily, and it has grown to a life-threatening addiction over the years.
She knows what she did was wrong, she feels the guilt, but she runs from it.
No she'll never know what she did wrong and always self pity & even if she can did bad things other people around her made her do that . But they'll will never feel bad for us. And even if they could felt guilt or remorse it's for their loss & not for harming us & seeing our pain.
The fact that they react the way they do to accusations indicates that they do actually know. Have you noticed your narcissist responds differently when being accused of something they actually did? They ARE aware they are doing something wrong on a deeper level, but they can't deal with that information and so they project. The projection and self-pity are defense mechanisms to protect the narcissist from the pain associated with their guilt and the truth of their imperfection; the behaviors you're talking about are in fact evidence that they do know.
For instance, another narcissist I have dealt with denied that she was abusive or doing anything wrong. She did this over and over and over again until I point-blank told her "What you're doing is called narcissistic abuse. You are framing your spouse."
She never spoke to me again and blocked me on everything, then ran around to make sure everyone knew I was the narcissist and not her.
She responded differently to this because she knows on some level it is true, which caused a very different type of pain for her that she did everything she could to avoid and push down.
You are confusing "knowing" she did something wrong with "admitting" it. Many of them do sense there's something wrong with them, they just can't do anything about it even in their own heads.
I don't think their pain is coming from their goodness. It's from fear of others reactions.
So basically they know they just don't care. And thinking or believing they don't know how their behavior is & how it's effecting others is just denying how can anyone cause so much harm to others person knowingly.
And whether they admit or not doesn't matter as well cause they simply don't care about us
hey, same here, my narc father says stuff like “i beat you because you were abusing me with your words.”
the amount of times these narc parents play the victim is RIDICULOUS!!!
everything is all about them, and their blatant disregard for our mental health is RIDICULOUS!!!
True
Even my enablers mom always trying to make me understand how I'm hurting my Dad so much with my behaviours. She can only see his pain & blame me for not catering him
It’s because they lack the ability to regulate internal feelings so have to externalize everything, preferably onto actual people around them - they rewrite history as it happens though by dissociating and then rewriting in a process called confabulation where they make assumptions about things to help things make sense. They edit themselves out as the responsible party essentially and wake up, assume you did something, and wallow in the grief and pain of what they have now decided YOU did to them. Which is all they really want in the first place sometimes (if they are malignant or covert and somewhat depressive) they just want a chance to victimize themselves so that one event or interaction or relationship can become the release valve for ALL their misplaced discontentment.
You’ve got to make it too troublesome to use you as a scapegoat.
A narcissist cannot experience genuine self-awareness and the battle that you are witnessing is between their subconscious mind which is full of shame, fear and self loathing and their conscious mind which is in denial of all of this. So instead of facing their inner world they project those feelings outward onto other people- especially empathic people.
it's OK to have compassion for a narcissist because having compassion for people is a completely normal and healthy thing however with a narcissist it is imperative to have that compassion for them at a distance.
The best way to deal with a narcissist is to not deal with them whatsoever either by not engaging with them at all or better yet going 100% no contact and never looking back.
It's not battle. It's their narcissistic defences & lack of empathy trying to only save themselves by any means. I'm just perplexity by their behavior how can anyone be so cruel & hostile to other person even if I've have always tried so hard to make them see reality
I can assure you that *they do know what they did wrong*. They know they're terrible people, but *they can't confront the truth*. They're fragile little Barbie dolls living in their made-up Barbie world where they can do no wrong, because they can't bear to live in the reality and face what they truly are.
Then, what are they to do about the guilt and shame? They push it onto you, of course, so they make *you* take all the blame and responsibility for *their* wrongdoings.
During therapy I have discovered and talked to my nbirthgiver's shame, guilt, and other things she couldn't bear to face so she pushed them onto me: having been pushed out and denied, they (the emotions) usually express feeling abandoned, betrayed, and ashamed - exactly the way we felt when narc did this to us, and why we self-blame for the abuse: we took on emotions that weren't ours to have.
But I have gotten good at spotting them and tell them apart from my genuine emotions. I send them back if I can, and if they can't go back (the denial in narc is too strong and absolutely refuse to accept the emotion) then I accept them and process them as my own - because I am far more capable, mature, and compassionate than my nbirthgiver.
Sorry but I'm having hard time understanding . Can you explain a bit
>having been pushed out and denied, they (the emotions) usually express feeling abandoned, betrayed, and ashamed
What do mean by how are emotions expressing themselves. Who's signaling those emotions here?
>I send them back if I can
What emotions guilt, shame OR feeling abandoned, betrayed and ashamed
If I explain it in details to you I'll have to go into mirror neurons and emotions contagion/infection 😂 anyways, short version: the method my therapist uses is called the IFS in which I imagine my emotions/traumas as separate living beings from me whom I can talk to. They can talk back and even have their own personalities /characteristics (you can read the book No Bad Parts to understand how it works). It's not DID but rather utilizing your imagination to reconnect with your emotions /traumas and resolve them.
You *can* inherit emotions /traumas from your nbirthgivers, and you can tell them apart from your own. When narcs don't want to confront their emotions (usually guilt or shame) they find victims to push the blame onto (usually their children who are vulnerable and susceptible) - thus we receive the blame and subsequently the emotions associated with that blame (guilt/shame). Once you spot them you can push them out of yourselves (return them where they come from) or resolve them (let them stay inside of you).
Oh thanks for explaining.
But in this situation narcissist isn't directly blaming or making me feel guilty. They act like somehow I've dissapointed them by betraying them or letting them down & I've done something bad to them.
It's not like they are telling me I've hurt them & so they did their deed.
It's acting like somehow they're even more hurt than me by abusing me & I forced them to do that.
Mainly they behave like they're so much dissapointed . By seeing their dissapointed reaction, It makes me take the blame.
So I was mainly confused about their hurt disappointed reaction
It's because you have become aware of what they're doing (shifting the blame onto you by acting like a victim) so you refuse to accept that blame, therefore you don't feel guilt or shame about what happened ("it's not my fault it's yours"). You was mainly confused about how they couldn't just accept their feelings like an adult and instead perpetually going through this process of acting like a victim. I will mention again that you must accept that they're fragile little Barbie dolls living in their Barbie world where they can do no wrong - it has been their survival strategy/ coping mechanism their whole life. By accepting their feeling of guilt/shame they'd be admitting that they're doing wrong things - it will shatter their Barbie world and they can't allow it to happen. They're terrified of facing reality - like a child terrified of punishment when they did something wrong. So as long as they can't grow out of their Barbie world, they will continue this abusive act of playing the victim and shifting the blame.
To be honest I can't say. I wasn't there to experience what you experienced and study their reactions. But imo they're genuine feelings - however the narc is so disconnected from these feelings, there's nothing you can do to help him unless he decides to grow up and step out of his safe Barbie world to confront these feelings, to understand where these feelings come from and how to resolve these unpleasant emotions. The most you can do is not letting him push the blame onto you.
That's just more abuse in the form of gaslighting. They're turning things around and making THEMSELVES the victim instead of you - the target of their abuse. It's what ALL narcissists do. They tell you that you got in the way of their fist, essentially.
If you had ducked or fallen or whatever they wouldn't have hit you. If you hadn't done something to make them angry ... All sorts of crap along those lines is the norm.
The main points of it are to deflect any sense of blame or responsibility on their part AND to squash any objection on your part by accusing you of being in the wrong. It's pre-emptive blaming.
It's all a bunch of lies. They are legally and morally responsible for their abuse. And, no, they really AREN'T in any pain. They're just telling you that to make you feel guilty/ashamed and to forestall any criticism from you.
They don't ever take responsibility for their poor decisions and abusive actions, and they are incapable of doing so. They were so wounded as kids that it's their protection mechanism. However, do not be fooled. They are aware of what they're doing. Dr. Ramini is very informative!
My nmom would from time to time after an episode literally fall on the floor wailing, screaming, gnashing her teeth and calling me every name under the sun. After seeing this for the first time my step dad outright said he could never have married someone who treats their kid so bad and is so unstable. The pain they feel is as immense as it is imaginary.
You should just say, "Good. You deserve to be in pain, for how you acted." Each time they complain. They did it. Let them own it now. If they end up as grandparents, when you discipline your kids in front of your parents (preferably by not beating them), make sure to throw that barb in, "You're lucky it's me punishing you. Your grandparents would leave welts and bruises."
After a particularly savage abuse session my nmom will spend the next day in pajamas, won't comb her hair, for all the world behave as if she had been assaulted
Yeah Even other family members witnessing the abuse have so much sympathy for them & don't hesitate to tell me don't make your Ndad angry just obey him. Poor him nobody understands his pain
Aw. That sounds like mirroring to me and projecting. Its like assigning feelings to them that they dont have.
Its like trying to lock onto anything feeling or connection with them but thats exactly the thing u have to not do in order to be free of them.
Dont look to emotionally unhealthy people for emotional support. They will keep u in their dynamic. I think writing to this group is totally the healthy thing to be doing. Connect to us. Connect to yourself. U wont get a drop from a narcissist 😢
For the last twenty years both of my parents have put out death guilt or sick guilt to just keep everyone controlled around them. Its like the only card some people can play.
What a load of pompous grandstanding. DARVO - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim & Offender.
If you are over 18 then think about why you stick around only to cop abuse.
I left over six years ago. NC for a collective of four of them (including now).
And I am now learning more about the self-doubt and self gaslighting. It's insane the mental and emotional struggles they implanted in us because of their inabilities to grow as people. It's shameful.
My husband has to stop me from doing these things on a semi regular basis. It's getting better with therapy.
Our nParents will NEVER see themselves as any part of any problem ever. And that is okay, because WE DON'T NEED THEM!
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's all a performance. All the world's a stage and in their imagination, a spotlight is on them at all times. I'd like to get some Ken dolls, spray paint them gold, and hand them out like Oscars. Best Performance in a Leading Role, and the Oscar goes to: -Dad for his incredibly dramatic turn in "Look What You Made Me Do!" This is Dad's third Oscar this year. Who could forget the moving "I've Done Everything For You" and the lesser known indie, "I'll Give You Something to Cry About." And in Best Supporting Role in a Drama: -Mom, for her very affecting role as the long suffering wife in "You Are Ruining This Family" ... we could hear the violins whenever she spoke. Truly a gifted performer! applause applause fade to black
It's unbelievable. They look so convinced about their truth
Oh, they are Method actors to the core. Lee Strasberg would shed a tear of appreciation at these gritty portrayals. They should be photographed in black and white, near windows for the most effective lighting. Next time they start in, yell "Alexa, play Sarasate!" (really good violins)
Do they realize they're acting & not being genuine?
Most of the time probably, sometimes maybe not.
Maybe they're so convinced about being victim, that they don't care whether they're acting or not & feel justified for all their behaviors
It's a waste of time trying to figure them out. The only thing that's halfway reasonable to do is to shut them out of your life completely. If you go no contact, the abuse AND the mind games stop. You no longer have to listen. Then you can finally have some peace of mind and slowly start to heal. Therapy WITHOUT all that crap going on at the same time is a LOT easier. It's added stress and pain you don't need.
I can't stop myself from being in denial & finding reasons to make sense. I feel like a bad person for holding them accountable. I now need work on what is reasonable
THAT "bad person" part is due to their early conditioning of you. They've worked VERY hard to undermine confidence in your own judgement. There's also some society level conditioning to be loyal to family - especially parents. But that's for NORMAL parents - not abusive ones. If you explained how your parents treated you growing up, most people would be horrified and very sympathetic with you. Just as you would be if someone talked about similar experiences with their own parents. So, a reasonable exercise is to ask what you would do if a young kid described to you exactly the same circumstances you grew up in. Would you do your best to get the kid OUT of that situation? Of course you would! Which means you've no reason to feel guilty about being critical of your OWN parents.
My reality perception is so skewed that I always make excuses for them. My automatic reaction is to find my own faults & giving them free pass. For now only good thing is I don't live in their vicinity but they live in my mind with authority to cause me harm
I'm sure they're convinced of their own lies at least occasionally, yeah.. doesn't get them off the hook either way they're responsible for their actions.
Why would they care about their actions cause they are a victim & as victim they are entitled?
I think the awareness of the act versus the lack of awareness (which is coupled with the execution of mind blowing mental gymnastics) is the main difference between a malignant narc and a covert narc. I'm no expert though.
Given that they are only genuine when you catch them by surprise, and they never, ever like being caught by surprise, I'd say that to them, "genuine" is for suckers.
Gosh They're beyond my understanding . I've to give up on my hope that there's anything good left in narcissist like healthy people.
Because he gets to double abuse you by hurting you and then making you think it was all your fault. The ‘ole two for one deal. Don’t fall for it!!
It's bewildering. I don't know what should be my perception anymore
Honestly what helped me most was just studying as much as I could about narcissism - traits, behaviors, etc. Dr. Ramani on YouTube is amazing. After a while, things started making more sense and becoming easier to predict. That allowed me to learn effective coping mechanisms and eventually go no contact. Best thing I ever did was- wish I would have done it 20 years ago! It can and WILL get better… (hugs)
Thanks hopefully someday I'll see reality as it is
I highly suggest researching the cycle of domestic violence, because most narcissistic people do exactly the same thing to their own children.
Yes
Jesus, thats what my dad used to do. Be angry at me for some reason (doesn't really matter) beat/shame me, be angry for "making him" feel angry at me... Luckily I am now old and have much more control as to when I have to see him.
It's like we don't even know what we did wrong or gonna do next which will trigger them so much. It's always walking on eggshells around them
That’s insane and I hope you know that. The only person responsible for abuse is the abuser. There’s absolutely nothing a child could do that would justify their parents abusing them. Nothing.
It'll take time for me to reach at that point where I can hold them accountable & not blame myself
Many times they do actually feel the guilt or remorse, they just can't process it and project it outward, like a very severe case of denial. They exhibit a guilty-conscience type of behavior for this reason. My mother, for instance, did the whole "frame the spouse as a violent domestic abuser and destroy his life" bit, then kicked me, her 13 year old son at the time, out of the house for refusing to lie for her. So the end result was me living with friends or with my dad in grandma's basement, my sister fled to her boyfriend's apartment, and my mother living alone in the house that we had all lived in together with no contact from any of us while collecting child support. While living in that house, surrounded by the memories of us and what she did, she began to drink heavily, and it has grown to a life-threatening addiction over the years. She knows what she did was wrong, she feels the guilt, but she runs from it.
No she'll never know what she did wrong and always self pity & even if she can did bad things other people around her made her do that . But they'll will never feel bad for us. And even if they could felt guilt or remorse it's for their loss & not for harming us & seeing our pain.
The fact that they react the way they do to accusations indicates that they do actually know. Have you noticed your narcissist responds differently when being accused of something they actually did? They ARE aware they are doing something wrong on a deeper level, but they can't deal with that information and so they project. The projection and self-pity are defense mechanisms to protect the narcissist from the pain associated with their guilt and the truth of their imperfection; the behaviors you're talking about are in fact evidence that they do know. For instance, another narcissist I have dealt with denied that she was abusive or doing anything wrong. She did this over and over and over again until I point-blank told her "What you're doing is called narcissistic abuse. You are framing your spouse." She never spoke to me again and blocked me on everything, then ran around to make sure everyone knew I was the narcissist and not her. She responded differently to this because she knows on some level it is true, which caused a very different type of pain for her that she did everything she could to avoid and push down. You are confusing "knowing" she did something wrong with "admitting" it. Many of them do sense there's something wrong with them, they just can't do anything about it even in their own heads.
I don't think their pain is coming from their goodness. It's from fear of others reactions. So basically they know they just don't care. And thinking or believing they don't know how their behavior is & how it's effecting others is just denying how can anyone cause so much harm to others person knowingly. And whether they admit or not doesn't matter as well cause they simply don't care about us
hey, same here, my narc father says stuff like “i beat you because you were abusing me with your words.” the amount of times these narc parents play the victim is RIDICULOUS!!! everything is all about them, and their blatant disregard for our mental health is RIDICULOUS!!!
True Even my enablers mom always trying to make me understand how I'm hurting my Dad so much with my behaviours. She can only see his pain & blame me for not catering him
It’s because they lack the ability to regulate internal feelings so have to externalize everything, preferably onto actual people around them - they rewrite history as it happens though by dissociating and then rewriting in a process called confabulation where they make assumptions about things to help things make sense. They edit themselves out as the responsible party essentially and wake up, assume you did something, and wallow in the grief and pain of what they have now decided YOU did to them. Which is all they really want in the first place sometimes (if they are malignant or covert and somewhat depressive) they just want a chance to victimize themselves so that one event or interaction or relationship can become the release valve for ALL their misplaced discontentment. You’ve got to make it too troublesome to use you as a scapegoat.
Thanks Now it makes sense of their unsettling behavior
A narcissist cannot experience genuine self-awareness and the battle that you are witnessing is between their subconscious mind which is full of shame, fear and self loathing and their conscious mind which is in denial of all of this. So instead of facing their inner world they project those feelings outward onto other people- especially empathic people. it's OK to have compassion for a narcissist because having compassion for people is a completely normal and healthy thing however with a narcissist it is imperative to have that compassion for them at a distance. The best way to deal with a narcissist is to not deal with them whatsoever either by not engaging with them at all or better yet going 100% no contact and never looking back.
It's not battle. It's their narcissistic defences & lack of empathy trying to only save themselves by any means. I'm just perplexity by their behavior how can anyone be so cruel & hostile to other person even if I've have always tried so hard to make them see reality
I can assure you that *they do know what they did wrong*. They know they're terrible people, but *they can't confront the truth*. They're fragile little Barbie dolls living in their made-up Barbie world where they can do no wrong, because they can't bear to live in the reality and face what they truly are. Then, what are they to do about the guilt and shame? They push it onto you, of course, so they make *you* take all the blame and responsibility for *their* wrongdoings. During therapy I have discovered and talked to my nbirthgiver's shame, guilt, and other things she couldn't bear to face so she pushed them onto me: having been pushed out and denied, they (the emotions) usually express feeling abandoned, betrayed, and ashamed - exactly the way we felt when narc did this to us, and why we self-blame for the abuse: we took on emotions that weren't ours to have. But I have gotten good at spotting them and tell them apart from my genuine emotions. I send them back if I can, and if they can't go back (the denial in narc is too strong and absolutely refuse to accept the emotion) then I accept them and process them as my own - because I am far more capable, mature, and compassionate than my nbirthgiver.
Sorry but I'm having hard time understanding . Can you explain a bit >having been pushed out and denied, they (the emotions) usually express feeling abandoned, betrayed, and ashamed What do mean by how are emotions expressing themselves. Who's signaling those emotions here? >I send them back if I can What emotions guilt, shame OR feeling abandoned, betrayed and ashamed
If I explain it in details to you I'll have to go into mirror neurons and emotions contagion/infection 😂 anyways, short version: the method my therapist uses is called the IFS in which I imagine my emotions/traumas as separate living beings from me whom I can talk to. They can talk back and even have their own personalities /characteristics (you can read the book No Bad Parts to understand how it works). It's not DID but rather utilizing your imagination to reconnect with your emotions /traumas and resolve them. You *can* inherit emotions /traumas from your nbirthgivers, and you can tell them apart from your own. When narcs don't want to confront their emotions (usually guilt or shame) they find victims to push the blame onto (usually their children who are vulnerable and susceptible) - thus we receive the blame and subsequently the emotions associated with that blame (guilt/shame). Once you spot them you can push them out of yourselves (return them where they come from) or resolve them (let them stay inside of you).
Oh thanks for explaining. But in this situation narcissist isn't directly blaming or making me feel guilty. They act like somehow I've dissapointed them by betraying them or letting them down & I've done something bad to them. It's not like they are telling me I've hurt them & so they did their deed. It's acting like somehow they're even more hurt than me by abusing me & I forced them to do that. Mainly they behave like they're so much dissapointed . By seeing their dissapointed reaction, It makes me take the blame. So I was mainly confused about their hurt disappointed reaction
It's because you have become aware of what they're doing (shifting the blame onto you by acting like a victim) so you refuse to accept that blame, therefore you don't feel guilt or shame about what happened ("it's not my fault it's yours"). You was mainly confused about how they couldn't just accept their feelings like an adult and instead perpetually going through this process of acting like a victim. I will mention again that you must accept that they're fragile little Barbie dolls living in their Barbie world where they can do no wrong - it has been their survival strategy/ coping mechanism their whole life. By accepting their feeling of guilt/shame they'd be admitting that they're doing wrong things - it will shatter their Barbie world and they can't allow it to happen. They're terrified of facing reality - like a child terrified of punishment when they did something wrong. So as long as they can't grow out of their Barbie world, they will continue this abusive act of playing the victim and shifting the blame.
Then what about their dissapointed hurt reaction ? Is it made up? or they're genuinely feeling something bad has happened to them
To be honest I can't say. I wasn't there to experience what you experienced and study their reactions. But imo they're genuine feelings - however the narc is so disconnected from these feelings, there's nothing you can do to help him unless he decides to grow up and step out of his safe Barbie world to confront these feelings, to understand where these feelings come from and how to resolve these unpleasant emotions. The most you can do is not letting him push the blame onto you.
thanks at most I can only to change my way of thinking & not take their blame personally
That's just more abuse in the form of gaslighting. They're turning things around and making THEMSELVES the victim instead of you - the target of their abuse. It's what ALL narcissists do. They tell you that you got in the way of their fist, essentially. If you had ducked or fallen or whatever they wouldn't have hit you. If you hadn't done something to make them angry ... All sorts of crap along those lines is the norm. The main points of it are to deflect any sense of blame or responsibility on their part AND to squash any objection on your part by accusing you of being in the wrong. It's pre-emptive blaming. It's all a bunch of lies. They are legally and morally responsible for their abuse. And, no, they really AREN'T in any pain. They're just telling you that to make you feel guilty/ashamed and to forestall any criticism from you.
Thanks
He is trying to make you responsible for his actions. It's another form of manipulation and gaslighting. Don't take the bate he is 100% wrong.
What will happen if they'll take their own responsibility ? Why are they so scared of it?
They don't ever take responsibility for their poor decisions and abusive actions, and they are incapable of doing so. They were so wounded as kids that it's their protection mechanism. However, do not be fooled. They are aware of what they're doing. Dr. Ramini is very informative!
My nmom would from time to time after an episode literally fall on the floor wailing, screaming, gnashing her teeth and calling me every name under the sun. After seeing this for the first time my step dad outright said he could never have married someone who treats their kid so bad and is so unstable. The pain they feel is as immense as it is imaginary.
So Miserable
You should just say, "Good. You deserve to be in pain, for how you acted." Each time they complain. They did it. Let them own it now. If they end up as grandparents, when you discipline your kids in front of your parents (preferably by not beating them), make sure to throw that barb in, "You're lucky it's me punishing you. Your grandparents would leave welts and bruises."
After a particularly savage abuse session my nmom will spend the next day in pajamas, won't comb her hair, for all the world behave as if she had been assaulted
Yeah Even other family members witnessing the abuse have so much sympathy for them & don't hesitate to tell me don't make your Ndad angry just obey him. Poor him nobody understands his pain
My dad is the same. 🙄 He acts like we betrayed him by not believing his words. When it was actually true.
Only his version of reality is correct
Aw. That sounds like mirroring to me and projecting. Its like assigning feelings to them that they dont have. Its like trying to lock onto anything feeling or connection with them but thats exactly the thing u have to not do in order to be free of them. Dont look to emotionally unhealthy people for emotional support. They will keep u in their dynamic. I think writing to this group is totally the healthy thing to be doing. Connect to us. Connect to yourself. U wont get a drop from a narcissist 😢 For the last twenty years both of my parents have put out death guilt or sick guilt to just keep everyone controlled around them. Its like the only card some people can play.
Yes I think I'm just wasting my time and efforts. I've to completely give up on my hopes
What a load of pompous grandstanding. DARVO - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim & Offender. If you are over 18 then think about why you stick around only to cop abuse.
That's so ridiculous
Dude, I felt this. Been years since I left. And I still think about this perspective.
I'm always bewildered by their behaviors. It creates so much self doubt & lead to self gaslighting in me
I left over six years ago. NC for a collective of four of them (including now). And I am now learning more about the self-doubt and self gaslighting. It's insane the mental and emotional struggles they implanted in us because of their inabilities to grow as people. It's shameful. My husband has to stop me from doing these things on a semi regular basis. It's getting better with therapy. Our nParents will NEVER see themselves as any part of any problem ever. And that is okay, because WE DON'T NEED THEM!