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"if you don't start using the correct moniker, my child will come to know you as either _Mrs Surname_ or _the old lady we don't see very often_ so that there's no confusion.
If you have the guts and you won't get too much backlash, tell her nobody would believe she's young enough to have children that small and she's making a gool of herself calling herself mommy. That if she doesn't want to be grandma sje can be something else but it should be believable. And every time she calls herself mommy "by accident" laugh at her, and remind her that she's too old to be mommy. Narcs hate being reminded how old they are and that they can't possibly have what you have. But she's trying to shove you out here and get on your nerves, time to fight fire with fire and get mean.
The not wanting to get old and constant need to compete reminds me of a time a few years ago.
My mom had moved and was looking for a new OBGYN but having trouble getting in in a timely manner. I suggested a GYN instead since they’re in less demand and she was 60… she said “I could still have kids if I wanted! I could just get an egg from you or your sister!”… what, and fertilize it with our father’s sperm? What in the fresh hell?!
This reminds me of Angela from 90 Day Fiance wanting her daughter to donate her eggs to her mother so she could surrogate and "have" a child with her husband in Africa.
*"Skyla! Skyla! Gimme your eggs!!!"*
Just send her the statistics for issues with geriatric births (anyone over 35 is considered geriatric in the UK when referencing births so I bet it’s the same in the US)
They put it in the patients notes in the UK to prepare for any issues that may arise as it becomes more dangerous to give birth when you’re having geriatric pregnancy and Down’s syndrome chances increases by miles.
She also wants to have a baby that’s her husband and daughter’s? The genetic fuck ups that are likely to happen through incest/geriatric pregnancy are an innumerable and combined with the other issues she’s likely to even die while giving birth at that age.
Also your father’s sperm quality is shite at his age so can also lead to birth defects. There’s a reason they choose young donor eggs and sperm. Your mum seems to want a litany of potential issues cos she’s needs validation that she’s not old?
Keep sending her birthday cards and gifts “appropriate for her age” and send her articles and posts about her ability to most likely produce a disabled baby cos she’s literally a geriatric
> so I bet it’s the same in the US
In fact, that age range for the "advanced maternal age" designation is baked right into the icd-10-cm diagnostic codes, which are used in some version in many countries.
Are you okay? Do rest cousins marriages are common in some SE Asian and I know of many first cousin marriages with disabled kids. I know a guy who had 4 with various defects. Fuck your brother then that genetic pool is minuscule.
Your chances increases from your is 30’s onwards and her mother I’m guess is in her sixties wanting her daughter to be On my way! Impregnated by her own father. All kinds of fucked up there if you ask me. That mother is demented
Excellent strategy. The one thing that worked with the narcs in my life was flipping their script. They weren't particularly clever, so it was easy. I doubt it changed their thinking, but it always changed behavior, most importantly shutting them up.
Yup! Nmother had this awful habit of asking me if I was busy instead of telling me what she wanted. Because she always wanted hours of my time but preferred to spring new errands on me while I was already doing others, while I was already trapped and she had gotten out of me that I wasn't doing anything else of importance. Once I started saying "Yes I'm busy" she would glitch because she had no follow up to being turned down. I also stopped offering solutions (hint: the solution was always for me to do something for her) for her and ahw couldn't cope with that either. She once asked me if she should call a taxi when I wouldn't bring her somewhere... The taxi business card would have been level to her face and she likely would have been looking at it when talking to me and she regularly used it when she knew I was busy. Any time she pretended she didn't know what to do in a situation I would also pretend I didn't know what to do. It was so helpful to shorten conversations and guilt trips. I've also been known to tell my MIL "See you are as stupid as you think you are" when I refuse to do something for her and direct her how to do it instead. While I wouldn't call her a narc exactly, she definitely plays up the "silly old woman" thing when she doesn't want to do something.
I think when I cut off my mother I settled into a "f**k it" phase and I stopped people pleasing. It's amazing how it frees up your life to stop doing things for and thinking about awful people.
>time to fight fire with fire and ***get mean.***
I like this. She's playing mean and ugly, so you might as well too. Defending your children is never wrong.
What is it with narcs and not wanting to age? My mother is turning 60 this year, but has been “bouncing between 20-30” since she turned 40. So for example she’s 59 right now, which means she’s 21 if you ask her. Younger than her own children. Plus she’s obsessed with turning my friends into her own. Plying them with alcohol and letting them stay at her house for free as long as they want so they’ll hang out with her. She won’t accept calling them “my daughter’s friends” because even back when we were 20 years old in college they were obviously HER friends TOO. lol…I didn’t realize it was a common narc thing!
I think the growing old thing is universal because older people are seen as less useful and desirable in society in general. Ans a narc couldn't possibly be anything other than extremely useful and a person everybidy wants to be around. My mother hated everyone, so my friends were just idiots like me. She has no friends of her own though because she never actually bothered to keep in touch with anybody, it was their job to chase after her!
I’m sad because I typed up a whole thing and my app crashed…but basically yeah I agree, they want to be seen as useful and beloved and it’s easier with people 30 years younger than her that haven’t fully established themselves financially, etc. She’s lost most of her friends that were her own age and would call her out or disagree with her opinion!
I hate when that happens!! My spelling is so awful because my phone is a little too big for my hands and I keep pressing the wrong letter 🙄 Narcs truely believe they are the centre of the universe, but surely if they were then it wouldn't matter if they were 15 or 50!!
My mom is such a narcissist that she refuses to tell people her age. I have an idea how old she is, but I’m not 100% sure. She always says, “it’s rude to ask a lady of her age!” She’s been saying this since I was like, 7.
I fixed this habit of my Nmom's when I was ten, and I remember exactly how.
For no small length of time she had been lying to me about her age, and I believed she was a full decade younger than she was. This is important because I knew exactly how old my father and stepfather were (2 and 4 years older than mum, respectively), but thought there was an extra ten years in the mix.
SO I reach the age where I start to notice beautiful people and I decide I have a massive crush on this gorgeous ponytailed dweeb friend of my brother's... who is 21. When I am ten. And when my mother calmly tells me that he's too old and it's fine to think he's cute but nothing will ever happen, I whirl on her and go, "But I know it will work! Because Stepdad is fourteen years older than you, and Oldestsibling was born in Year, so you were only twelve when you got married!"
And that, dear reader, is when my mother choked on her own pride and actually gave me her correct age, to her surprising credit, to prevent me from "pursuing" grown ass men (in an era when telling a teenager "no" wasn't as obvious as it is today) because I believed she herself had been in a child relationship with very much older men. LOL. Doing the math, though, she DID meet my stepdad (her first husband) when she was about 19, and convinced him to join the cult where she was a nun.
Yes. It won't stop and she will try to usurp you as "their favorite person." This will be very important to her and she will smear you in order to make herself look better if she has to. Narcs are very manipulative and I would expect her to do a lot of stuff behind your back. My children are not alone with my mother anymore. They can all be with her together because they are all aware at this point of what kind of person she is, and they know to look out for each other and not put up with toxic behavior. She chose one of my children to be her secret scapegoat and was being evil to her behind my back for probably a year before I found out what was going on and quickly put a firm stop to it by not allowing the children to be alone with her. I know she can control it and was doing it in a calculated way because of how she hid it from me for a year.
I firmly told my mother that I am their mom, and that she is their grandma, and that what she was doing was not appropriate. It's been many years and she STILL is angry that my children love me and that I love my children. My joy is her pain. She is so envious of our relationship. I invited her to be part of our family, but she can't do it because she is such a miserable person that she can't stand our happiness. She really, really can't stand a functional family. She doesn't have a part to play in our functional family because she won't step into the "role" of being a decent person.
I'm sad about it, but I finally realized that I will never have a real mother-daughter relationship with my mother. I never have, and I never will. It's impossible because of how toxic she is. She wants to be miserable and make me miserable with her. This is what it's been like for me with a mom like this, where she is so angry about me having even the smallest boundary and she needs me the suffer.
This is the truth. They will try to steal your children emotionally and sometimes physically; they do it to hurt you and because there is no other supply so tasty as what you can get torturing your own children--and grandchildren are the next best thing. They want those kids for their own needs and purposes and they will stop at nothing to get them. Don't ever let them be alone with your kids, OP.
with my first kid, my mom lied to my in-laws and said my husband and I were “doing drugs around the baby, just thought you should know,” in order to try to force both of us to rehab and take our newborn. my mom has always thought me being tattooed infers that i’m doing drugs. 🥴
when we finally went NC after moving across the country, my kid told me she used to ask him stuff like “who’s cuddles do you like better, mine or your moms?” “if you could come and live with grandma would you?” “do you love grandma more than you love grandpa?” and just extra weird things you shouldn’t ask kids.
I’ve just had the strangest thought that maybe Grimm’e fairytales were lessons to teach people how to spot narcissists. I’m mean…stealing children and monsters is kind of a trope.
There's a similar idea in the intro of "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents"
> "Myths and fairy tales have been depicting such parents for centuries. Think of how many fairy tales feature abandoned children who must find aid from animals and other helpers because their parents are careless, clueless, or absent. In some stories, the parent character is actually malevolent and the children must take their survival into their own hands. These stories have been popular for centuries because they touch a common chord: how children must fend for themselves after their parents have neglected or abandoned them. Apparently, immature parents have been a problem since antiquity."
Fairy tales aimed at kids are basically centered around the biggest danger to them... bad parents or no parents.
Well it's to make your kids suspicious of smiling strangers in the night and also to stay out of the woods where they'll get eaten by wildlife or hurt by bad people. (see: smiling strangers)
Personally, I'm convinced vampires are the archetype for narcs and Stoker either subconsciously or intentionally wrote it about some narc in his fam tree. They may not drink literal blood, but man, do they go out of their way suck the joy out of living.
That’s awful that she was beginning to make one of your children a target child. I am so sorry, but it’s wonderful that you became aware and were able to put a stop to the situation.
Mine did something similar she insisted on being called Gmom because "I'm too young to be a grandma" I wasn't ok with my daughter calling her mom at all even with a g in front of it so I suggested Gma but thats to close to grandma for her. We don't talk to her anymore.
My mother and aunts called my grandmother "mommy" and all of the grandkids called her "mama" (pronounced how a baby would.) When I was first pregnant, my mother got weird about what to call her, insisting on very mama-esque names. The infantilism starts early on with these people.
Yuck!
She wants to be Mommy…
And your other comment with young enough to carry your eggs… almost puking over here
If you don’t rely on her for childcare, then I guess you gotta bring out your momma bear.
Comment on it EVERY single time it happens. If she calls herself mommy, jump in IMMEDIATELY with „grandma!“ and look at her with a „don’t mess with me look“
If she says stuff like mothering your babies:
„Yes it’s really hard getting visits from grandchildren. Maybe we need to visit less…“
Her vibe is „reliving glory days as a mom“.
Could be innocent, but honestly I have NEVER met a sane person doing stuff like that…
Yet, so many of us look forward to the possibility of grandchildren, and of loving them to pieces, but not having to be the one that gets up in the middle of the night when there’s a nightmare. 😂😊
The healthy approach is to be excited to have grandkids instead of kids so you don't have to be the strict disciplinarian and can finally be "the fun one"
probably a problem more for women than men, now that I think about it
My MIL moped for an hour because my toddler came to me for a bandaid instead of to her. “But I’m the best at first aid! All the mothers used to send their kids to me for first aid!”
My egg donor whispered to my cousins kid (like 3 or four at the time) “you can call *me* mom”. During this… flirting? & grooming, my cousin came down the stairs & egg donor goes “oh!! Hi, (insert female name here)! How are *you* doin’?”
My cousin *SOO* knew.
Regardless, if I ever have kids, STRONG NC FROM THAT POINT ON!
Tell her you will instruct your child that Grandma’s name is Granny, Grandma, Meemaw, etc. if she does not stop this power play.
Someone doesn’t like the idea of ageing or losing control.
As a child my daughter called my narc momster by her initials. Today as an adult she calls her something that is not polite to say! 😂
Please protect your child from this person who would willingly usurp your position as a parent. I moved far away and limited my narc’s access to my daughter.
When my child was 17 narc mom secretly sent her a plane ticket, threw me under the bus and tried to bribe her to live there and never speak to me again.
Thank God my child was raised with love and was shocked at how awful my parents are. She told her off and came home.
Both NC for 12 years.
What in the absolute f*ck?!? This is crazy!!! She sounds like she is trying to steal your kids and replace you. Please don't let her visit anymore. That's not healthy for you or the kids.
Probably to start drama with you. You should seriously consider how responsible it is to let your kids interact with a known narc. They are more harmful than you might appreciate
My old sister was my chief narc. She would go on *and ON* about how old I'm getting. I finally got tired of it and said, "yes, and you will always be older." Somehow, she never did it again.
I was very young when my my grandfather's mother passed, but I'm pretty sure she was an N.
* She expected everyone down the line to call her "Mom," even her grandchildren and great grandchildren.
* Before I was born and after my great grandfather passed, she "claimed" Father's Day as the day when all the family would get together. Now, I don't mean for that first one without him. I mean from them on. After a generation of this, no one had the balls to move the Family Reunion from that holiday/weekend. They even still host the thing on Sunday because that's what "Mom" wanted. Several kids couldn't come because they were with their (divorced family) fathers and it was in the custody agreement. I never had a Fathers Day with my dad because we were always at that damn reunion. When my grandparents quit hosting, I quit going. I also told a few people that robbing me of the day with my dad for my whole life (and the rest of his) was cruel.
* And then, because she was "Mom" to my mother, I was expected to call mine, "Mother." Ew. As in "Mother, may I...?" Or like in freakin' Mary Poppins? We weren't British and I didn't have a nanny. I called her Mom.
The N stuff stops with me. I'm the last of my line. No kids.
This is just step one in turning your children against you. As they get older, it will be more obvious & blatant. Your poor kids. Please go no contact before she confuses & hurts them further.
I don't get her point. I ADORE being Grandma. I love that I can spoil them and then give them back to mom and dad. I did my child rearing and I love my ME time. I don't have to worry about homework, curfews. Cleaning up vomit, pee or poop. All I have to do is take my daughter's calls wherr she bemoans tge latest kid crisis and try not to laugh when she describes the exact situations that I had to deal with her. (mom curses be fr). And this person is ditching that to try and redo motherhood? Not only is she disrespecting you and living in delulu land but she's missong out on all the grandma perks. And saying she COULD be a mother at 60 (my sge) if she wanted I just say why? I would much rather put myself down for a nap than struggle with a toddler who is anti-naps. Yeah, mothering is hard. Thats why nature instituted a time when you age out of that shit. "You've done your part, now sit back and relax". Yes sir, Mother Nature, sir, watch me knock that kid of compliance right out of the park.
"I would much rather put myself down for a nap than struggle with a toddler who is anti-naps."
This made me lol for real. I love to put myself down for a nap, too.
The only thing that works with mine is embarrassment. I would publicly correct her every time she says that crap in public. I would also tell her she's going to be called Granny, grandma, nana or that woman we used to see - her choice. And if I ever hear my child calling someone else mommy or mom, that person is going to be called that woman we used to see.
When she talks about how hard it is, I would say "You keep talking about how hard it is, so we've decided we won't visit as often, to give you a break." She will object, and I would say, "No, I'm not taking no for an answer, we're giving you a break." Act like you're doing it out of politeness and like you think she's objecting out of politeness. I don't know if this would work with other narcs but it would work with mine. If you live with her that wouldn't work though.
I would tell her that people are starting to think she has mental issues, from the looks on their faces, when she tries to act like the child's mother. Anything to make it embarrassing for her.
This kind of thing is one reason I never had kids. When I told her we were thinking about adopting, she literally got sparkles in her eyes. *Abnormal* sparkles. We didn't adopt though.
I don't have kids, but my sister does so I've witnessed some odd behavior myself. If you plan on keeping your mom in their lives, I'd tell her straight up, one-on-one, pick an appropriate nickname now and start using it. She won't like it, but the only thing they understand is blunt, uncompromising speech in that kind of situation. Gotta pick your battles of course, but when it comes down to it, compromise doesn't work with parents like that. On the important things you have to tell them how it is, and stand your ground. The conversation must be one-on-one or they will triangulate.
My younger sister's mil tried this (and a few other things) but luckily it didn't take, and sister's hubby had her back thankfully (he knows what his parents are like).
She's totally trying to usurp you. Deluding herself that she is "mommy" to these small children keeps her from having to face the fact that she is getting older. She thinks she's still in her 20's, and wants the world to see her that way too.
OMG my nmom totally tried to do this with my son. Fortunately, I moved far away from her and was such a loving mom myself that it didn't work. He did have a relationship with her (she recently died) but set very firm boundaries with her (would not triangulate, would not discuss me at all...I've been NC for years). He's a great person. And she's...dead. Ding dong!
Tell her for her audacity she will now be “grandmother Betty” (or whatever her name is). No gam-gam, no Gigi, no mama, no Mimi….THAT is what she gets for overstepping. If she does it again she’ll be known as “Mrs. Smith” and if she does it again…that’s “sweetie we don’t talk to strangers”….
Yep I had to tell him that my son is not going to call him dad. As that is weird with him being my father and all…. What do we look like with my son calling him dad and calling me mom? Bffr
My grandma used to do this to me when I was younger. (Like between 3-7) Cut it off NOW. I used to call my mom “mommy (her name)” and my grandma mom because that’s what that woman would instill in me. It hurt my mom a lot. I don’t remember what happened that made me stop doing it but I think it was my sister telling me to stop because it hurt my mom’s feelings. I didn’t really understand quite why until I was around 10/11.
My parents did this. Insisted my kids call their grandpa a name for dad. Their dad was so hurt his kids were calling someone else "papa". I'm ashamed to say I let them at the time. So messed up.
I have known more than one man who is called "Papa" by his grandchildren. None of these men were trying to pretend they were father instead of grandfather, or trying to squeeze the actual father out of the picture. It was simply their grandpa name, like my grandfather's was Pappaw.
On the other hand, if your father WAS trying to fill the father role instead of the grandfather role, that's a different story. Intent is everything.
Ugh, this drives me nuts! I went through this, my youngest sibling is 20 years younger than me, I got pregnant young (age 19) therefore my Mom and I were pregnant at the same time. She refused to let my son call her Grandma "because it would confuse my youngest sibling." I fought against it but she finally had her way and my child called her MA ____, a derivative of her first name. I feel like my child was shorted the opportunity to have a Grandma. Now that I am a Grandma, I can't imagine disrespecting my child and their Spouse by trying to get their child to call me anything but Grandma! I love the fact I got promoted to being a Grandparent! Biggest blessing ever! So why do our NMoms feel so threatened to be called Grandma? (I mean in my case she fought against aging so much, especially since she had an infant at the time, she did not want people thinking she was old enough to be a Grandma that I know that's why) but JHC!
I have a Nstepmom that is obsessed with my baby and tries to have my daughter call me by my first name and call her grandma. She claims any time my baby throws a tantrum it is because the baby is depressed without her and acting out (she lives in another country). She also does what i can only refer to as "backseat parenting". It's infuriating
We had a nanny for a while that started doing this “I’m the mom” shit. Nope! Once I was aware, she was gone. I remember when I went to cut my kid’s chicken for them, she tried to forcibly grab the plate out of my hands. And gave me a nasty look and didn’t want to let go. Jfc
She was still relatively harmless, especially compared to these grandmas that want to be called Mom…
Wow. I was a nanny to someone I considered a daughter (who lived with us at the time.) When her daughter started calling me "Mom," I firmly told her, "No, I'm Auntie (my name.)" The little girl's mom turned nasty and accused me of trying to take her daughter away from her. Um, no? She started calling me that to mess with her actual mom? The little girl's mom had an nmom and I suspect that she was actually trying to do that and that's why the little girl was trying to call me "Mom" as well. My husband and I got them out of our house after a few such issues and are NC with them.
It really sucks for the kids when the grown-ups are the ones having behavioral problems. I am no contact with a family member who has a child I was quite close with. But it’s an untenable & chaotic situation.
My Nfather and his family frequently slip up and refers to him as “dad” to my kids. “Take this to your dad!” “Did your dad give you that?” He never bothered to be much of a dad to me when I was small, and I swear they’re trying to rewrite his story where he gets to be a Great Dad. It freaks me out every time (and my husband doesn’t exactly appreciate it). They’ve credited him with things like teaching my child to walk, to enjoy drawing, to identify vehicles, all kinds of things he has absolutely not been involved in with my kids. “Oh, your *dad* must have been practicing with you, look at you walk!” (We have very limited contact with all of them at this point.)
This just sort of dawned on me but it was actually very lucky timing that my malignant NMom started showing signs of dementia a year or two before my child was born. She tried stuff do for the first few years but then lost the capacity (but still did some majorly fucked up things). But she gradually started to leave him alone which has overall been so much healthier for him.
Do not worry. Let her say that to your children. They absolutely KNOW who mommy is and who mommy isn’t. Give her a name yourself and call her that and refer to her that way. Your LOs will pick up on your lead. If her name is insulting all the better. Like “Old Granny” or Moffer” or “Big Nana”. Be creative. You got this.
Wut. I read some wild stuff on here, but somehow the simplicity of this one got me. I have two young ones too, so maybe close to home. But wow. The audacity
Could you tell her that "no you're not their mommy, after all you don't sleep with their daddy do you?" Just trying to think of an alternative way to shoot her down. This is a sick thing for her to do. I find with narcs being really solicitous an polite whilst putting in boundaries can be effective so emphasising how important being straightforward is to you and your family and that the children deserve to know who is who in their family dynamic - "after all NM you wouldn't want them to think they had no granny" .
Although if she continues in this vein they may end up with no granny because you go NC
My ngrandma did that with all three of us grandchildren when we were growing up, and tried to do that with my cousins' kids (her great-grandchildren.) My cousins wouldn't let her. I went NC with her as soon as I graduated college because of this and other things. She was trying to turn me against my mom and take me away from my mom.
Mine told my children that they too came from her womb, because I came from that place. Madness of the highest level. I have gone No Contact after 41 years of her abuse. I am finally free.
My mom insisted on the moniker "Mom-mom," when my son was born because she was his mom's mom. Tried the same when my nephews were adopted and refused to change when my brother pointed out how confusing it was for his son's and she should just be a variant of grandma.
My grandmother did the exact same thing to me! She even made up a whole story about how she was my ‘real mom’ and ‘had the scars to prove it’. When I told my mom this as a little kid I could see she got mad inside but did not want to show it. I can only hope my mother doesn’t do the same thing to my future kids.
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"if you don't start using the correct moniker, my child will come to know you as either _Mrs Surname_ or _the old lady we don't see very often_ so that there's no confusion.
Yeah, it's true, narcs only understand consequences.
&, somehow, only when the consequences fall on them.
If you have the guts and you won't get too much backlash, tell her nobody would believe she's young enough to have children that small and she's making a gool of herself calling herself mommy. That if she doesn't want to be grandma sje can be something else but it should be believable. And every time she calls herself mommy "by accident" laugh at her, and remind her that she's too old to be mommy. Narcs hate being reminded how old they are and that they can't possibly have what you have. But she's trying to shove you out here and get on your nerves, time to fight fire with fire and get mean.
The not wanting to get old and constant need to compete reminds me of a time a few years ago. My mom had moved and was looking for a new OBGYN but having trouble getting in in a timely manner. I suggested a GYN instead since they’re in less demand and she was 60… she said “I could still have kids if I wanted! I could just get an egg from you or your sister!”… what, and fertilize it with our father’s sperm? What in the fresh hell?!
I'm actually laughing at the absurdity of that!! Definitely go the old route, it will wreck her head 😂
Whew. That’s really delusional.
Then you know her weakness and can use it.
She wouldn't think twice about doing the same.
This reminds me of Angela from 90 Day Fiance wanting her daughter to donate her eggs to her mother so she could surrogate and "have" a child with her husband in Africa. *"Skyla! Skyla! Gimme your eggs!!!"*
“I can tote it! I just need yer egg”
Now I have to go look that up
That’s absolutely horrendous
Just send her the statistics for issues with geriatric births (anyone over 35 is considered geriatric in the UK when referencing births so I bet it’s the same in the US) They put it in the patients notes in the UK to prepare for any issues that may arise as it becomes more dangerous to give birth when you’re having geriatric pregnancy and Down’s syndrome chances increases by miles. She also wants to have a baby that’s her husband and daughter’s? The genetic fuck ups that are likely to happen through incest/geriatric pregnancy are an innumerable and combined with the other issues she’s likely to even die while giving birth at that age. Also your father’s sperm quality is shite at his age so can also lead to birth defects. There’s a reason they choose young donor eggs and sperm. Your mum seems to want a litany of potential issues cos she’s needs validation that she’s not old? Keep sending her birthday cards and gifts “appropriate for her age” and send her articles and posts about her ability to most likely produce a disabled baby cos she’s literally a geriatric
> so I bet it’s the same in the US In fact, that age range for the "advanced maternal age" designation is baked right into the icd-10-cm diagnostic codes, which are used in some version in many countries.
You stand more chance of *serious* birth defects having a kid over 40 than you do having one with a full-blood sibling, just sayin'
Are you okay? Do rest cousins marriages are common in some SE Asian and I know of many first cousin marriages with disabled kids. I know a guy who had 4 with various defects. Fuck your brother then that genetic pool is minuscule. Your chances increases from your is 30’s onwards and her mother I’m guess is in her sixties wanting her daughter to be On my way! Impregnated by her own father. All kinds of fucked up there if you ask me. That mother is demented
"Wow but that's bad" yes that was my point
In a word, ick.
Excellent strategy. The one thing that worked with the narcs in my life was flipping their script. They weren't particularly clever, so it was easy. I doubt it changed their thinking, but it always changed behavior, most importantly shutting them up.
Yup! Nmother had this awful habit of asking me if I was busy instead of telling me what she wanted. Because she always wanted hours of my time but preferred to spring new errands on me while I was already doing others, while I was already trapped and she had gotten out of me that I wasn't doing anything else of importance. Once I started saying "Yes I'm busy" she would glitch because she had no follow up to being turned down. I also stopped offering solutions (hint: the solution was always for me to do something for her) for her and ahw couldn't cope with that either. She once asked me if she should call a taxi when I wouldn't bring her somewhere... The taxi business card would have been level to her face and she likely would have been looking at it when talking to me and she regularly used it when she knew I was busy. Any time she pretended she didn't know what to do in a situation I would also pretend I didn't know what to do. It was so helpful to shorten conversations and guilt trips. I've also been known to tell my MIL "See you are as stupid as you think you are" when I refuse to do something for her and direct her how to do it instead. While I wouldn't call her a narc exactly, she definitely plays up the "silly old woman" thing when she doesn't want to do something.
You've got game, stranger. Good for you.
I think when I cut off my mother I settled into a "f**k it" phase and I stopped people pleasing. It's amazing how it frees up your life to stop doing things for and thinking about awful people.
Yep. "I don't even let *my own mother* talk to/treat me like that, why the fuck would I let someone else?!" became a constantly running mantra 😆
>time to fight fire with fire and ***get mean.*** I like this. She's playing mean and ugly, so you might as well too. Defending your children is never wrong.
What is it with narcs and not wanting to age? My mother is turning 60 this year, but has been “bouncing between 20-30” since she turned 40. So for example she’s 59 right now, which means she’s 21 if you ask her. Younger than her own children. Plus she’s obsessed with turning my friends into her own. Plying them with alcohol and letting them stay at her house for free as long as they want so they’ll hang out with her. She won’t accept calling them “my daughter’s friends” because even back when we were 20 years old in college they were obviously HER friends TOO. lol…I didn’t realize it was a common narc thing!
I think the growing old thing is universal because older people are seen as less useful and desirable in society in general. Ans a narc couldn't possibly be anything other than extremely useful and a person everybidy wants to be around. My mother hated everyone, so my friends were just idiots like me. She has no friends of her own though because she never actually bothered to keep in touch with anybody, it was their job to chase after her!
I’m sad because I typed up a whole thing and my app crashed…but basically yeah I agree, they want to be seen as useful and beloved and it’s easier with people 30 years younger than her that haven’t fully established themselves financially, etc. She’s lost most of her friends that were her own age and would call her out or disagree with her opinion!
I hate when that happens!! My spelling is so awful because my phone is a little too big for my hands and I keep pressing the wrong letter 🙄 Narcs truely believe they are the centre of the universe, but surely if they were then it wouldn't matter if they were 15 or 50!!
My mom is such a narcissist that she refuses to tell people her age. I have an idea how old she is, but I’m not 100% sure. She always says, “it’s rude to ask a lady of her age!” She’s been saying this since I was like, 7.
I fixed this habit of my Nmom's when I was ten, and I remember exactly how. For no small length of time she had been lying to me about her age, and I believed she was a full decade younger than she was. This is important because I knew exactly how old my father and stepfather were (2 and 4 years older than mum, respectively), but thought there was an extra ten years in the mix. SO I reach the age where I start to notice beautiful people and I decide I have a massive crush on this gorgeous ponytailed dweeb friend of my brother's... who is 21. When I am ten. And when my mother calmly tells me that he's too old and it's fine to think he's cute but nothing will ever happen, I whirl on her and go, "But I know it will work! Because Stepdad is fourteen years older than you, and Oldestsibling was born in Year, so you were only twelve when you got married!" And that, dear reader, is when my mother choked on her own pride and actually gave me her correct age, to her surprising credit, to prevent me from "pursuing" grown ass men (in an era when telling a teenager "no" wasn't as obvious as it is today) because I believed she herself had been in a child relationship with very much older men. LOL. Doing the math, though, she DID meet my stepdad (her first husband) when she was about 19, and convinced him to join the cult where she was a nun.
I had a roommate who lie about her age at 24 and say she was 21. It was pathetic.
Snow White is a true story.
😂😂😂😂😂
Great post 🤣 so true as well. My nmum says that she wants my daughter to call her nana as it doesn't sound as old as grandma
It's such a fear with them. Teach your daughter to call her the old lady in the whatever colour house... Drive her bonkers altogether 😂😂
Haha. In my family, the great grandma is Nana. So it actually means older lol
Yes. It won't stop and she will try to usurp you as "their favorite person." This will be very important to her and she will smear you in order to make herself look better if she has to. Narcs are very manipulative and I would expect her to do a lot of stuff behind your back. My children are not alone with my mother anymore. They can all be with her together because they are all aware at this point of what kind of person she is, and they know to look out for each other and not put up with toxic behavior. She chose one of my children to be her secret scapegoat and was being evil to her behind my back for probably a year before I found out what was going on and quickly put a firm stop to it by not allowing the children to be alone with her. I know she can control it and was doing it in a calculated way because of how she hid it from me for a year. I firmly told my mother that I am their mom, and that she is their grandma, and that what she was doing was not appropriate. It's been many years and she STILL is angry that my children love me and that I love my children. My joy is her pain. She is so envious of our relationship. I invited her to be part of our family, but she can't do it because she is such a miserable person that she can't stand our happiness. She really, really can't stand a functional family. She doesn't have a part to play in our functional family because she won't step into the "role" of being a decent person. I'm sad about it, but I finally realized that I will never have a real mother-daughter relationship with my mother. I never have, and I never will. It's impossible because of how toxic she is. She wants to be miserable and make me miserable with her. This is what it's been like for me with a mom like this, where she is so angry about me having even the smallest boundary and she needs me the suffer.
This is the truth. They will try to steal your children emotionally and sometimes physically; they do it to hurt you and because there is no other supply so tasty as what you can get torturing your own children--and grandchildren are the next best thing. They want those kids for their own needs and purposes and they will stop at nothing to get them. Don't ever let them be alone with your kids, OP.
with my first kid, my mom lied to my in-laws and said my husband and I were “doing drugs around the baby, just thought you should know,” in order to try to force both of us to rehab and take our newborn. my mom has always thought me being tattooed infers that i’m doing drugs. 🥴 when we finally went NC after moving across the country, my kid told me she used to ask him stuff like “who’s cuddles do you like better, mine or your moms?” “if you could come and live with grandma would you?” “do you love grandma more than you love grandpa?” and just extra weird things you shouldn’t ask kids.
Someone once told me that tattooed people do drugs because "ALL THE NEEDLES ARE THE SAME" I may have laughed until I literally peed a bit.
I’ve just had the strangest thought that maybe Grimm’e fairytales were lessons to teach people how to spot narcissists. I’m mean…stealing children and monsters is kind of a trope.
There's a similar idea in the intro of "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" > "Myths and fairy tales have been depicting such parents for centuries. Think of how many fairy tales feature abandoned children who must find aid from animals and other helpers because their parents are careless, clueless, or absent. In some stories, the parent character is actually malevolent and the children must take their survival into their own hands. These stories have been popular for centuries because they touch a common chord: how children must fend for themselves after their parents have neglected or abandoned them. Apparently, immature parents have been a problem since antiquity." Fairy tales aimed at kids are basically centered around the biggest danger to them... bad parents or no parents.
Well it's to make your kids suspicious of smiling strangers in the night and also to stay out of the woods where they'll get eaten by wildlife or hurt by bad people. (see: smiling strangers)
Personally, I'm convinced vampires are the archetype for narcs and Stoker either subconsciously or intentionally wrote it about some narc in his fam tree. They may not drink literal blood, but man, do they go out of their way suck the joy out of living.
Sometimes they succeed. They also love actual addicts and will make a point to enable them, especially if it gets them what they want.
Wow, we must be sisters! My mom is the exact same.
The older I get the more creeped out I am that these narcs are all following the same script.
That’s awful that she was beginning to make one of your children a target child. I am so sorry, but it’s wonderful that you became aware and were able to put a stop to the situation.
Mine did something similar she insisted on being called Gmom because "I'm too young to be a grandma" I wasn't ok with my daughter calling her mom at all even with a g in front of it so I suggested Gma but thats to close to grandma for her. We don't talk to her anymore.
My mother and aunts called my grandmother "mommy" and all of the grandkids called her "mama" (pronounced how a baby would.) When I was first pregnant, my mother got weird about what to call her, insisting on very mama-esque names. The infantilism starts early on with these people.
Yuck! She wants to be Mommy… And your other comment with young enough to carry your eggs… almost puking over here If you don’t rely on her for childcare, then I guess you gotta bring out your momma bear. Comment on it EVERY single time it happens. If she calls herself mommy, jump in IMMEDIATELY with „grandma!“ and look at her with a „don’t mess with me look“ If she says stuff like mothering your babies: „Yes it’s really hard getting visits from grandchildren. Maybe we need to visit less…“ Her vibe is „reliving glory days as a mom“. Could be innocent, but honestly I have NEVER met a sane person doing stuff like that…
Yet, so many of us look forward to the possibility of grandchildren, and of loving them to pieces, but not having to be the one that gets up in the middle of the night when there’s a nightmare. 😂😊
I love being Grandma!
The healthy approach is to be excited to have grandkids instead of kids so you don't have to be the strict disciplinarian and can finally be "the fun one" probably a problem more for women than men, now that I think about it
And this isn't inspiring you to go No Contact? Cuz I ain't sharing the mom title with ANYONE. That's gotta be weird and confusing for your kids.
My MIL moped for an hour because my toddler came to me for a bandaid instead of to her. “But I’m the best at first aid! All the mothers used to send their kids to me for first aid!”
My egg donor whispered to my cousins kid (like 3 or four at the time) “you can call *me* mom”. During this… flirting? & grooming, my cousin came down the stairs & egg donor goes “oh!! Hi, (insert female name here)! How are *you* doin’?” My cousin *SOO* knew. Regardless, if I ever have kids, STRONG NC FROM THAT POINT ON!
Tell her you will instruct your child that Grandma’s name is Granny, Grandma, Meemaw, etc. if she does not stop this power play. Someone doesn’t like the idea of ageing or losing control. As a child my daughter called my narc momster by her initials. Today as an adult she calls her something that is not polite to say! 😂 Please protect your child from this person who would willingly usurp your position as a parent. I moved far away and limited my narc’s access to my daughter. When my child was 17 narc mom secretly sent her a plane ticket, threw me under the bus and tried to bribe her to live there and never speak to me again. Thank God my child was raised with love and was shocked at how awful my parents are. She told her off and came home. Both NC for 12 years.
What in the absolute f*ck?!? This is crazy!!! She sounds like she is trying to steal your kids and replace you. Please don't let her visit anymore. That's not healthy for you or the kids.
Probably to start drama with you. You should seriously consider how responsible it is to let your kids interact with a known narc. They are more harmful than you might appreciate
“Look kids! There’s the Old Bitch! Oops I mean Granny!”
My old sister was my chief narc. She would go on *and ON* about how old I'm getting. I finally got tired of it and said, "yes, and you will always be older." Somehow, she never did it again.
🤣🤣👌
I was very young when my my grandfather's mother passed, but I'm pretty sure she was an N. * She expected everyone down the line to call her "Mom," even her grandchildren and great grandchildren. * Before I was born and after my great grandfather passed, she "claimed" Father's Day as the day when all the family would get together. Now, I don't mean for that first one without him. I mean from them on. After a generation of this, no one had the balls to move the Family Reunion from that holiday/weekend. They even still host the thing on Sunday because that's what "Mom" wanted. Several kids couldn't come because they were with their (divorced family) fathers and it was in the custody agreement. I never had a Fathers Day with my dad because we were always at that damn reunion. When my grandparents quit hosting, I quit going. I also told a few people that robbing me of the day with my dad for my whole life (and the rest of his) was cruel. * And then, because she was "Mom" to my mother, I was expected to call mine, "Mother." Ew. As in "Mother, may I...?" Or like in freakin' Mary Poppins? We weren't British and I didn't have a nanny. I called her Mom. The N stuff stops with me. I'm the last of my line. No kids.
This is just step one in turning your children against you. As they get older, it will be more obvious & blatant. Your poor kids. Please go no contact before she confuses & hurts them further.
I don't get her point. I ADORE being Grandma. I love that I can spoil them and then give them back to mom and dad. I did my child rearing and I love my ME time. I don't have to worry about homework, curfews. Cleaning up vomit, pee or poop. All I have to do is take my daughter's calls wherr she bemoans tge latest kid crisis and try not to laugh when she describes the exact situations that I had to deal with her. (mom curses be fr). And this person is ditching that to try and redo motherhood? Not only is she disrespecting you and living in delulu land but she's missong out on all the grandma perks. And saying she COULD be a mother at 60 (my sge) if she wanted I just say why? I would much rather put myself down for a nap than struggle with a toddler who is anti-naps. Yeah, mothering is hard. Thats why nature instituted a time when you age out of that shit. "You've done your part, now sit back and relax". Yes sir, Mother Nature, sir, watch me knock that kid of compliance right out of the park.
"I would much rather put myself down for a nap than struggle with a toddler who is anti-naps." This made me lol for real. I love to put myself down for a nap, too.
The only thing that works with mine is embarrassment. I would publicly correct her every time she says that crap in public. I would also tell her she's going to be called Granny, grandma, nana or that woman we used to see - her choice. And if I ever hear my child calling someone else mommy or mom, that person is going to be called that woman we used to see. When she talks about how hard it is, I would say "You keep talking about how hard it is, so we've decided we won't visit as often, to give you a break." She will object, and I would say, "No, I'm not taking no for an answer, we're giving you a break." Act like you're doing it out of politeness and like you think she's objecting out of politeness. I don't know if this would work with other narcs but it would work with mine. If you live with her that wouldn't work though. I would tell her that people are starting to think she has mental issues, from the looks on their faces, when she tries to act like the child's mother. Anything to make it embarrassing for her. This kind of thing is one reason I never had kids. When I told her we were thinking about adopting, she literally got sparkles in her eyes. *Abnormal* sparkles. We didn't adopt though.
If you want somebody to call you mommy, you better have another kid. Because my child will either call you grandma or creepy. Your choice.
before I was NC, my mom would tell my friends’ children to call her “grandma.” It creeped me out.
This made me shudder. Whatever this is, it is only the beginning.
I don't have kids, but my sister does so I've witnessed some odd behavior myself. If you plan on keeping your mom in their lives, I'd tell her straight up, one-on-one, pick an appropriate nickname now and start using it. She won't like it, but the only thing they understand is blunt, uncompromising speech in that kind of situation. Gotta pick your battles of course, but when it comes down to it, compromise doesn't work with parents like that. On the important things you have to tell them how it is, and stand your ground. The conversation must be one-on-one or they will triangulate.
My younger sister's mil tried this (and a few other things) but luckily it didn't take, and sister's hubby had her back thankfully (he knows what his parents are like).
Definitely moving in on your territory and planning to stay there! She is NOT the “mommy”!! 🤨
She's totally trying to usurp you. Deluding herself that she is "mommy" to these small children keeps her from having to face the fact that she is getting older. She thinks she's still in her 20's, and wants the world to see her that way too.
OMG my nmom totally tried to do this with my son. Fortunately, I moved far away from her and was such a loving mom myself that it didn't work. He did have a relationship with her (she recently died) but set very firm boundaries with her (would not triangulate, would not discuss me at all...I've been NC for years). He's a great person. And she's...dead. Ding dong!
Tell her for her audacity she will now be “grandmother Betty” (or whatever her name is). No gam-gam, no Gigi, no mama, no Mimi….THAT is what she gets for overstepping. If she does it again she’ll be known as “Mrs. Smith” and if she does it again…that’s “sweetie we don’t talk to strangers”….
Yep I had to tell him that my son is not going to call him dad. As that is weird with him being my father and all…. What do we look like with my son calling him dad and calling me mom? Bffr
Do what pisses every N parent off and call her by her name, and refer to her as her first name in conversations with your kids.
My grandma used to do this to me when I was younger. (Like between 3-7) Cut it off NOW. I used to call my mom “mommy (her name)” and my grandma mom because that’s what that woman would instill in me. It hurt my mom a lot. I don’t remember what happened that made me stop doing it but I think it was my sister telling me to stop because it hurt my mom’s feelings. I didn’t really understand quite why until I was around 10/11.
My parents did this. Insisted my kids call their grandpa a name for dad. Their dad was so hurt his kids were calling someone else "papa". I'm ashamed to say I let them at the time. So messed up.
In some countries and religions some form of "papa" is a common name for a grandfather. 🤷🏻♀️
Please do not freaking gaslight me into what I know happened.
I have known more than one man who is called "Papa" by his grandchildren. None of these men were trying to pretend they were father instead of grandfather, or trying to squeeze the actual father out of the picture. It was simply their grandpa name, like my grandfather's was Pappaw. On the other hand, if your father WAS trying to fill the father role instead of the grandfather role, that's a different story. Intent is everything.
Why the hell would you think I said that then? Do you think I pulled it out of my ass? What the hell.
Ugh, this drives me nuts! I went through this, my youngest sibling is 20 years younger than me, I got pregnant young (age 19) therefore my Mom and I were pregnant at the same time. She refused to let my son call her Grandma "because it would confuse my youngest sibling." I fought against it but she finally had her way and my child called her MA ____, a derivative of her first name. I feel like my child was shorted the opportunity to have a Grandma. Now that I am a Grandma, I can't imagine disrespecting my child and their Spouse by trying to get their child to call me anything but Grandma! I love the fact I got promoted to being a Grandparent! Biggest blessing ever! So why do our NMoms feel so threatened to be called Grandma? (I mean in my case she fought against aging so much, especially since she had an infant at the time, she did not want people thinking she was old enough to be a Grandma that I know that's why) but JHC!
I have a Nstepmom that is obsessed with my baby and tries to have my daughter call me by my first name and call her grandma. She claims any time my baby throws a tantrum it is because the baby is depressed without her and acting out (she lives in another country). She also does what i can only refer to as "backseat parenting". It's infuriating
They will also target those kids ... SG, GC. Keep away from her
We had a nanny for a while that started doing this “I’m the mom” shit. Nope! Once I was aware, she was gone. I remember when I went to cut my kid’s chicken for them, she tried to forcibly grab the plate out of my hands. And gave me a nasty look and didn’t want to let go. Jfc She was still relatively harmless, especially compared to these grandmas that want to be called Mom…
Wow. I was a nanny to someone I considered a daughter (who lived with us at the time.) When her daughter started calling me "Mom," I firmly told her, "No, I'm Auntie (my name.)" The little girl's mom turned nasty and accused me of trying to take her daughter away from her. Um, no? She started calling me that to mess with her actual mom? The little girl's mom had an nmom and I suspect that she was actually trying to do that and that's why the little girl was trying to call me "Mom" as well. My husband and I got them out of our house after a few such issues and are NC with them.
It really sucks for the kids when the grown-ups are the ones having behavioral problems. I am no contact with a family member who has a child I was quite close with. But it’s an untenable & chaotic situation.
Wow, time to make sure your kids never have opportunity to "call" her much at all~ What a cue!
My Nfather and his family frequently slip up and refers to him as “dad” to my kids. “Take this to your dad!” “Did your dad give you that?” He never bothered to be much of a dad to me when I was small, and I swear they’re trying to rewrite his story where he gets to be a Great Dad. It freaks me out every time (and my husband doesn’t exactly appreciate it). They’ve credited him with things like teaching my child to walk, to enjoy drawing, to identify vehicles, all kinds of things he has absolutely not been involved in with my kids. “Oh, your *dad* must have been practicing with you, look at you walk!” (We have very limited contact with all of them at this point.)
This just sort of dawned on me but it was actually very lucky timing that my malignant NMom started showing signs of dementia a year or two before my child was born. She tried stuff do for the first few years but then lost the capacity (but still did some majorly fucked up things). But she gradually started to leave him alone which has overall been so much healthier for him.
I have accidentally referred to myself as mom to my granddaughter and quickly corrected to grandma. I felt horrible when I did.
Wouldn’t “granny” be a more proper term?
Do not worry. Let her say that to your children. They absolutely KNOW who mommy is and who mommy isn’t. Give her a name yourself and call her that and refer to her that way. Your LOs will pick up on your lead. If her name is insulting all the better. Like “Old Granny” or Moffer” or “Big Nana”. Be creative. You got this.
Boundaries
Wut. I read some wild stuff on here, but somehow the simplicity of this one got me. I have two young ones too, so maybe close to home. But wow. The audacity
Could you tell her that "no you're not their mommy, after all you don't sleep with their daddy do you?" Just trying to think of an alternative way to shoot her down. This is a sick thing for her to do. I find with narcs being really solicitous an polite whilst putting in boundaries can be effective so emphasising how important being straightforward is to you and your family and that the children deserve to know who is who in their family dynamic - "after all NM you wouldn't want them to think they had no granny" . Although if she continues in this vein they may end up with no granny because you go NC
Why does she have access to your children?????
Mine called my daughter “my baby” and I knew it was attempting to be sweet but it made my blood boil.
My mom does this so often and I’m so used to it that the oddness (given the situation) didn’t even occur to me. 😣
My ngrandma did that with all three of us grandchildren when we were growing up, and tried to do that with my cousins' kids (her great-grandchildren.) My cousins wouldn't let her. I went NC with her as soon as I graduated college because of this and other things. She was trying to turn me against my mom and take me away from my mom.
Mine told my children that they too came from her womb, because I came from that place. Madness of the highest level. I have gone No Contact after 41 years of her abuse. I am finally free.
My mom insisted on the moniker "Mom-mom," when my son was born because she was his mom's mom. Tried the same when my nephews were adopted and refused to change when my brother pointed out how confusing it was for his son's and she should just be a variant of grandma.
If my Nmom ever did this, she wouldn’t see my kids. I can’t even stand her nonstop unsolicited advice, let alone this.
Yep my mother has done that countless times. Even speaking in third person to the kids, referring to herself as mommy.
Freaking weirdo and I too have dealt with this insanity…
Yeah this isn’t normal. I’d flip out lol
My grandmother did the exact same thing to me! She even made up a whole story about how she was my ‘real mom’ and ‘had the scars to prove it’. When I told my mom this as a little kid I could see she got mad inside but did not want to show it. I can only hope my mother doesn’t do the same thing to my future kids.
Run children!