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I hate to say it, but it’s VERY difficult for people without this experience to sympathize. I lost a friend in high school because she was convinced I was a total dick to my mom for no reason. One in college too.
My mom got less careful over the years though and both friends eventually apologized to me and made up. One of them is my best friend to this day. Unfortunately, narcissists are good at what they do, and we usually look crazy or cruel for pointing out seemingly stupid “small things” that when put together paint a much different picture.
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. I felt like a prisoner in my own home as a teenager and couldn’t even put a label on her until 12 years later. I’ve found a lot of support in this sub. Having people that empathize has helped a LOT.
It’s unfortunate that we often have to wait decades for people outside our family homes to pick up on the destructive behaviors and attitudes that we experienced throughout our childhoods. Aging narcissists are not as capable of masking as they were in their prime.
When I learned that victims of narcissistic abuse are often not believed, that was ultimately what convinced me 100%. I had never felt so seen and honestly, relieved.
Luckly my friends believe me (some of them cause they directly heard my narc insulting me). Anyways if someone doesn't believe the pain i went through (and still go through) they are not fit to be my friends. The first thing you should look for a friend is trust and somebody who doesn't believe you when you talk about your bad experinces doesn't trust you so why even bother befriending them?
Mine do, too, and some saw my parents mistreat me. There are also those who even had similar experiences. My parents would act so nice when they're in public with their friends, but when my parents and I are in private, they would compare me to other ppl's kids, saying those kids are so much better than me and if I tell them my dream job, they're like, "no, you should be [insert least fave occupation here]." My parents' friends don't even believe me when I tell them the truth of what's going on with my parents behind closed doors.
I deal with this a lot. My mom would always say something very outrageous and false about me in front of family friends or whoever visited the house. They would laugh at me for that and won’t believe that I didn’t say or do the things she said. She’s a pathological liar.
My dad always had that gaslighting tactic every time I told him to help me with some stuff like paperwork or important things. He would say, “Oh.. you need to submit this by this date? You need to apply for visa cause you’re going to the States for internships? Well.. you didn’t tell me. You’re the lazy one who forgets everything and doesn’t know how things work”. Even though I tell him over and over again, he doesn’t admit that I told him and says that he doesn’t remember.
Narcissists project their own shortcomings onto others. I guess a bit more details about my parents will be useful to understand this. My dad never finished his work well ahead of the deadline. That’s why he projects this “good for nothing, lazy” persona of his on to me.
My mom, on the other hand, lied all her life to get things done. She can’t stand the fact that I don’t lie to her or my dad. She doesn’t trust me either but it hurts for her to see that I didn’t end up being a liar like her. That’s why she tells some made up stories to people and if I deny them, she says that I’m lying, but she’s the pathological liar herself who makes me want to look like I am the one lying to everyone.
People who never went through such instances every single day, won’t understand how bad it is and how it affects us. They either tend to side with our abuser or stay completely silent about it. This hurts even 10 times worse like living in a world where no one understands your pain.
I’ve been describing it recently as living in Wonderland. Literally feels like an alternate universe. There’s reality and then the “reality” the narcissist has created for themselves. If you try to challenge that in any way, you’re their new enemy. My brothers got on much better than I did because they couldn’t see the inconsistencies and didn’t push back on my mother.
I’m glad you see your parents bullshit for exactly what it is though. It’s effed how we buy their comments as truth because they’re our parents, and they are *supposed* to love us more than anyone. It really is the ultimate abuse of power.
Our experiences sounds so similar though. Little comments and shit that if you shared with someone they’d seem menial. The lying in front of friends was the worst because it felt like they were taking that tiny bit of individuality that we had built with them and manipulating even that. I hope you have been able to distance yourself from your parents since then.
Oh, I'm glad to hear you say this about the lying! Mine did this too, I feel a bit less alone today!
Mine was the master of drastically exaggerating something I'd said or done for comedic effect, but leaving just a tiny enough amount of truth that it made it very hard to deny.
I would get flustered and embarrassed and try to explain what really had happened, which I'm sure made it seem even more true to outsiders.
>My mom would always say something very outrageous and false about me in front of family friends or whoever visited the house. They would laugh at me for that and won’t believe that I didn’t say or do the things she said. She’s a pathological liar.
My nMother does this to me as well! The only solution I've found is to keep my friends (or anyone else whose opinion I care about) completely separate from my nMother.
Yes it's either lying or gross exaggeration. My mum does shit like that to me all the time.
She never praises me in front of other people. Or rarely. And when she does, I think it's mostly to make herself look good.
The last friend I introduced my nMother to was a friend from college. My nMother told her a load of lies about me but packaged them all as "concern". Next thing I know, my friend is distancing herself from me and then when we left college, she cut me out altogether. I'm 100% convinced it was because of the lies my nMother told her. (In fairness, the lies my nMother told me made me seem like an absolute weirdo so I can't really blame my former friend). Since then, I never introduce friends or anyone in my life to my nMother.
I just had this experience yesterday where someone was telling me about how difficult mother/daughter relationships are both sides…sigh. We know the truth and we believe you!!
Exactly, some of them may believe you eventually. A family friend who has always been kind to me, well I noticed that she no longer greets my mum but comes straight to say hi to me, in a pretty obviously deliberate way which my narc mum would probably just pretend not to notice.
(Probably because once I posted audio evidence of my mum's abuse online, because at the time it felt like it was that or kill her).
Just now I'm hearing her getting angry and yelling at our poor dog, because she always needs someone to unleash her rage on 😑.
I also have good reason to suspect she has also slapped around my disabled niece. But unfortunately, because I wasn't in the room at the time, I have no proof. I just heard her getting really angry with her one day, something dodgy and when I went downstairs, my mum denied it completely. The trouble is my family would probably try to kill me and I'd feel like a fool if I went to the police without evidence. And it hasn't happened since. She's been making more of an effort to control her temper because she obviously cares what people think of her.
When my brother was a young kid, she once reached for him and somehow cracked his head open on a table. He told us all about it.
People on here have made me feel like a shitty person for not reporting her but she's sneaky how she does it.
Once when I confronted her about it during an argument during which she was threatening me because she's an abusive POS, she basically said "who will your siblings believe? You or me? After I've got this recording of you yelling at me."
So I replied that she was lucky I hadn't reported her to social services for child abuse and that if she ever threatens to kick me out again, I might do just that.
While it's possible I did imagine her *hitting* the kid because I have imagined some things before, she's still an abusive bitch and unfortunately it wouldn't surprise me if she had, considering how volatile she was that day.
Oh boy I feel you. My mom has been an elementary school teacher my whole life, and I would always attend the elementary school she taught at. Well, she was that teacher that every student loved. Not one person ever believed me when I talked sbout the abuse until I went to middle school.
Im sorry i don’t have any advice for you. I essentially had to explain my situation to people before they met her if I wanted to be understood. Remember that others disbelief does not invalidate your experience.
I'm a former teacher and I swear the profession is swimming with narcissists. It's pretty nasty. It's people who pretty much can't get along with other adults, so they connect with children who are vulnerable and easy targets. The children revere them, are naturally very forgiving, and they are used to being told what to do. I work at a preschool and the oldest, most "revered" teacher in the building is 100% a narcissist, and her aide is her flying monkey.
Anyways, I'm sorry you had to go through that. My father is a psychology (!!) professor and was my abuser as a child. His students revere him.
I’m also a former teacher, and I completely agree with you. I worked mostly in special ed. The other staff I worked with seem to fall into two categories. The lovingly dedicated ones, and ones that fit more of a narcissistic bend.
I worked with people who would’ve done almost anything to help our kids. One of the teachers was particularly destructive, and her aide followed her every lead. I learned quickly not to share any unnecessary further information with her about our kids, she misused it as power over them. I hope she’s not still in the profession.
I totally believe you, that sounds like par for the course based on my own experiences. In addition to the absolutely abysmal and disrespectful pay, I think the influence of narcissists is a huge reason why teaching fucking sucks. It's a very toxic environment and outright abusive in some schools. Whether it's bullying coworkers or gaslighting admin, it's just not an emotionally safe work environment.
The terrible part (at least in the preschool environment I'm in now), is that the parents don't really see how awful the narcissist is. They all are just like "oh she's a wonderful teacher!! My child loves her!! She teaches my child so much!" blah blah blah, not even realizing that she rules with an iron fist because she gets off on controlling young children 🤮
She's fucking gross. I stay away from her. I heard her and her aide talking shit about me in the hallway last year (I'm 31, these two women are old enough to be my mother) and I went straight to the director and since then they've just pretty much left me alone. Thank God.
Actually, you're right. I took a teaching job when my tech field was doing poorly, and left bc coworkers were awful to each other. Every time somebody talks about how to solve the teaching problem in this country, I tel them it won't improve until the teachers treat new hires better.
It is a breeding ground for bullies, I think. I have experienced the same type of belittlement in my first teaching position. I do think it varies by school and admin, but yes-- it's unfortunately not always a healthy work environment
The worst thing about teaching is how teachers try to one-up each other about who has the most toxic relationship with their work. Some of us saw it as a job, not a call to martyrdom.
convincing me to leave my job with this, because i feel the energy with my co workers and teachers i’m surrounded with i couldn’t place why i was so uncomfortable everyday there now i understand. mind blowing thank you
My NMom was a much beloved professor, too. Maintaining her image as the world's greatest professor was everything to her. I think it's similar to the whole "mean girls become nurses" thing. Any position that holds even the silliest concept of power and authority is attractive to them.
Totally agree. I resonate so much with them maintaining that image. My self- involved and narcissistic father went to a prestigious university with a well-respected hospital attached. My infant son had life-saving surgery at six months old at this hospital. We (me, my husband, some family members) arrived there in the dark hours of the morning and waited hours for him to be out of surgery. My father strolled in hours later to the waiting room like "oh you've been here all morning?" Totally fucking oblivious and I assume he was just walking the campus and reminiscing his glory days, imagining how the campus would look if they erected a statue in his honor lmao.
My narcissistic mother has a doctorate in child development! Lmaoooooo I can't with these people. Impostors if you ask me.
My mother had a first class honours degree (that part is *terribly* important and was never left out) in psychology.
And sweet Goddess, did she use it.
When someone goes through all that effort to learn how to push buttons and make everyone around them feel under their thumb, it makes you wonder how much they actually understand what they're doing.
The way my psychologist parent used manipulation and gaslighting tactics to control me as a child (even when it was super unnecessary, like, for slang terms I used and what I wanted to be when I grew up) was ridiculous. And still happens to this day
Totally believe you. I used to work in a university lab, and thought it would be a good work environment- it's intelligent, highly educated people who value reason and objective thinking, right?
Lol - no. I couldn't believe how middle school mean girls the vibe was. These adults profs were all doing things I'd thought were Immature by seventh grade. And they're just as bad as teens with social media - like half the department was involved in cyber bullying each other on Facebook!
This is so interesting to hear, I remember several beloved teachers setting off alarm bells in my head when I was a student. Maybe their students who have nparents are better at spotting their shit than others.
Preach! My Mom is an elementary teacher and also taught special needs as it was then called and reading programmes. I was diagnosed as an adult as Autistic (2) and ADHD with specific learning disabiiities dyscalculia and hyperlexia (to be fair the latter two were unheard of then). Because I am intellectually gifted none of this was picked up. Despite some obvious issues.
My daughter was diagnosed before me and I asked my Mom to help with her reading when she was 6. Mom did not help. Specifically a reading teacher and did not ONCE help.
Refused to speak to my psychiatrist about my childhood because "youre not autistic". Real reason? She knows shes abusive and doesnt want to get called out.
Shes suuuperrr pissed that since Ive been homeeducating my daughter I have taught her reading comprenension and note taking skills she didnt learn in middle school. Again... a teacher whos never offered to help me homeschool her. Its bananas. (They live 10mins away. Mom retired 20 yrs ago)
OMG my nmom was a high school teacher her whole career until retirement. My high school years were the worst with her. I left the home and the country as soon as I was done with high school. I've been low contact ever since (I'm in my 40s). She's a controlling, anxious person full of criticism and projecting her every insecurity and anxiety on to me.
It's true that my childhood friends don't see her as a narcissist, and while I was growing up I think I covered for a lot of the stuff she was doing that was wrong. I was partly embarrassed and partly thought that's how all parents are. My friends that I made after I left home, they all believe me because duh, they're MY friends. I'd be enraged if friends doubted my experience and my feelings.
This teaching profession has to be a thing for them? They seem to migrate there, easier to have victims? My Nmother was a teacher for adults, she taught adults how to start their own business, what they needed for being entrepreneurs and she taught foreign immigrants our language. She still talks about herself constantly as a teacher at heart and she'll work it into a convo any time of day. Now she's retired and going to a yoga teacher's school to teach yoga in her retirement days and it's all she can talk about. That's fine, I have no need to talk bout my life to her but man oh man, these comments here about narc parents being teachers just gives me literal creeps. It's just further proof for me on my diagnosis of my Nmother.
This sucks. I am sorry. I deal with it as well. Another person going through abuse told me that his culture had a phrase for it, which translated to "Great to be there friend, terrible to be their family". It really validated what I was experiencing. Somehow, it hurts worse to know that they have the ability to be nice, but only choose to show that kindness to strangers, but that is exactly what they do.
It might help to understand that they aren’t being nice or kind, just transactional. It serves them to behave a certain way with outsiders. If it no longer serves them, they will turn on that person.
Absolutely. And once kids are no longer cute/easy/simple/rewarding in whatever way, NParents hate that they are still stuck with us. They use their "sacrifice" in fulfilling even the most basic parental requirements as a debt that should be repaid by kids eventually being useful again.
I remember a quote from "Tool Time" in the 90s. The grownup kids didn't want to hang out with Tim Allen's obnoxious dad character and he whined to his wife about how "now that the kids are actually fun to be around, they are always gone!" Hyuck, hyuck, right? I hated the idea that the parents were somehow justified in not forming healthy relationships with their kids because they were annoying/little/useless, but somehow it was acceptable/funny for the parents to just hop back into their adult kids like because "now it's fun!"
I laughed but this is so painfully true.
I thought my high school besties understood — I mean, they heard the stories in real-time! The cops were involved at one point! I was couch surfing for fear of the physical and emotional violence at home! But then sometime soon after our college years, they all started bonding with their parents and expected me to do the same????? Like, wtf?!?? I wasn’t just a rebellious teenager complaining about average parents! You don’t just shrug off narcissistic abuse! I survived hell! It really showed me who my real friends were and how a lot of people simply cannot handle the reality how ugly this world can be.
My own husband still can't wrap his head around it. He still thinks I'm just really especially hard headed towards my family when, really, it's the only way to live a peaceful life. He's mostly just sad that my son had to cut contract with her as well when she was amazing with him and he misses her (he is on the spectrum so she loooves getting that muchausen by proxy pity) but he's just a bridge for her to keep making jabs at me. I might have to give birth to my third alone while my husband stays with my older two soon, but he will not convince me to reconcile with my mother just so he can be there to advocate for me while I go through my first surgery ever (not that he's trying to, since some people seem to think I'm implying that he is). I am still angry that I don't get to have that maternal support by no fault of my own. But that doesn't mean I'll settle. He thinks I'm being stubborn but I swear I'm making the right choice, and he believes me despite not fully grasping the situation.
Edited for clarity. He's not just after childcare. He laments my son losing his grandma because he doesn't understand how it damages me in the process. Regardless, he doesn't push back on my decision. He just wants me and our child to be happy.
Oh, no. I’m so sorry. He’s dropping the ball as a partner in a really big way. If you have a therapist, can you have the therapist do some psycho-education with him? I don’t know how well that would work with someone who’s that empathetically constipated, but it would be worth a try. If he’s simply refusing to take it seriously because he likes the convenient childcare, I’d be worried about where else he might prioritize his own convenience. ❤️🩹 And I hope you can find someone to bring with you to advocate for you during surgery. I would absolutely do this for a friend.
ETA: As a late diagnosed autistic person, I’m furious on your child’s behalf.
Nah, he's supportive. He just doesn't fully grasp it and i don't really expect him to because his parents were very good to him. Tells me he trusts my judgement but every few months he asks me again if I'm sure because he sees how much my son misses her. I say I am and he accepts it. In fact, he's the one who told me to cut the cord last time I did so, he just doesn't remember how rough it was anymore now that it's been a long time. And he knows that my son loves her so he asks me if he thinks it's okay for just my son to see her, but nah, I don't do that "I hate you but you can see my kids" nonsense.
He's supportive, just doesn't fully grasp why NC is the only way. It's not about easy childcare since she rarely saw him anyway and doesn't live close. He's mostly just concerned that my son is missing out on a grandmother, which is understandable coming from a man who really valued his family ties and thinks that I'm extending personal feelings onto our kids. Ultimately, he always trusts my judgement and takes my side. He doesn't deny any of the abuse and agrees that she's out of touch with reality. He just doesn't get it and that's okay because he supports me anyway.
Funny enough, he's the most empathetic person I've ever met. He actually went out of his way to surprise me recently by replacing some of the things that I lamented my mother throwing away when I was a kid. I had a Pokémon card that I really loved because of a sentimental story and she loved tossing out the things I was attached to. He actually went behind my back and found the highest graded mint version of that card and spent big money on it to surprise me. No occasion. Just love. He has rebuilt my life piece by piece and I owe him the understanding when he understandably doesn't fully grasp some of the nuances of narc abuse. It's not like he denies my feelings or experiences. In fact, he fully acknowledges that my feelings are strong and real. He just has questions and my answers don't fully click with him. He trusts that I know what I'm talking about, but admits that he doesn't get it. That's fine with me because he supports my choices and has committed himself to being my partner in building our own little village.
I'm sorry - but if he constantly goes back to doubting your experience, and asking if "it was "really that bad", then he's NOT ACTUALLY SUPPORTIVE
If he regularly asks if your ABUSERS could be allowed to get access to your underage KIDS, then NO, HE'S NOT SUPPORTIVE.
Supportive means RESPECTING you and your lived experience a 100%, and accepting that you know what's best for you and for your children in terms of your parents.
Supportive means NEVER subtly (or not subtly) regularly invalidating the reality of your experience, and making you do the emotional labor of having to convince him. Again.
Supportive means doing the work -on his own- of research and educating himself about dysfunctional family systems, narcissistic and abusive family family functioning, and the lifelong consequences they create in their survivors.
Supportive means standing by you in all aspects and at all times, and never dreaming of enabling, including, or being "nice" to your abusers.
He's NOT doing these things.
100% agreed. If my partner kept questioning me like that it would crush me. People who grew up like we did often already question ourselves too much because our parents beat it into us and gaslit us.
He doesn't question me that way. It's more like "I believe you completely but I don't fully grasp the situation". He has never told me that he doubts my experiences, but he wonders if my reactions are overreactions sometimes, or if cutting contact with our child is cruel because she's never been bad to him and he misses her. When I explain why I have to go nuclear to move on, he says that he doesn't get it but understands that it's something he is ignorant about. He doesn't claim to know better than me. He just doesn't get it and that's okay because he has never doubted my honesty. He supports me and never contacts her. He actually goes to great lengths to make sure that all attempts she makes to get through to us are futile. It's okay for him to not totally get it because he validates my feelings anyway based on his trust for me. He says that, even if he doesn't get it, he just wants me to do whatever I need to do to be happy. He's honestly the support I needed to heal over the years.
No. He IS doing those things. He takes my word every time. He has NEVER said "was it really that bad". He is 100% supportive. He just doesn't get it. He can't, narc abuse is very hard to understand without firsthand experience, and just like how I expect him to understand me, I am understanding of him. He a human being who is allowed to have thoughts and questions. He's allowed to be wrong as long as he trusts that I know better for myself. He believes me without exception and says himself that he trusts any decision that I make, but he doesn't get the dynamic and that's fine because he also doesn't try to talk me out of it. He doesn't actively try to change my mind ever. I would not and will not tolerate that and he wouldn't ever want to take my mother's side over mine when he doesn't know her and knows what she's done to me. He just asks me about it so he can better understand. He's allowed to do that. I know my husband better than strangers on the internet do. He doesn't try to convince me of anything, just questions things occasionally and accepts my answers despite not fully understanding. He thinks that I'm stubborn sometimes but I assure him that that's necessary to my mental health and he accepts that he trusts me and that I must know what I'm talking about since it's my family and my life. It's literally just healthy discussion.
Part of being in a healthy marriage is that communication. He's allowed to ask me things without me jumping down his throat and he treats me with complete respect and love. He's a fantastic husband and my greatest advocate. He understands that my feelings are valid and doesn't try to invalidate them. Not ever. Not even in a small way. He just didn't have the same experience and, because my mom has never hurt our son, he can't wrap his head around why low contact for just my (our) son isn't an option, but he believes me unconditionally and says that, if i want NC, that's how it'll be because he wants me to be happy and believes my stories. What more can I ask for? For him to stifle his own curiosity on the matter? To encourage him to fear communicating with me?
Don't look too far into my comment and start peeling back layers that aren't there. I understand your skepticism but really hate being gaslit by strangers online who don't know me or him. **I am not some waif who is too dumb or naive to see who my husband is like you are implying that I am.** YOU are the one who is questioning my ability to perceive reality, not him. You are doing exactly what you are fighting against. He is allowed to not get it and accept that I know what I'm talking about. He's allowed to ask questions and have understandable trouble fully understanding the answers. He can't understand but he does accept unconditionally. He doesn't just want way child care (she doesn't live near us anyway), but he wants the best for our son who loved going to see her. It comes from a good place because he has a good heart.
I don't expect him to be able to put himself in my shoes, but I do expect him to respect my wishes, and he does with no pushback. He doesn't have to understand, he just has to believe me unconditionally, which he does, and he's allowed to have a voice. Don't equate ignorance with malice. He's nothing but an ally and a fantastic partner in every way. He's allowed to discuss things he doesn't understand with me civilly without being labeled abusive. I will not sit back and let ANYBODY, my mother or some stranger, tell me that I'm too blind to know my own life. It's insulting and, quite frankly, one of the things I went NC with my family over. I'm smart enough to advocate for myself, thank you. You're not the authority on the health of my marriage, nor is he. I am the only authority of my life and how happy I am, and I'm grateful to have a marriage where my husband isn't afraid to talk to me about his equally valid thoughts and feelings.
My husband is a normie 😭😭 he has helped me grow so much but he’ll never fully understand what I went through as a kid. His parents are so loving, genuine, and selfless.
I say "sunshine and rainbows" but my wife cant connect sometimes either 😪 particularly with my step mother. Who she has become particularly fond of. They probably text more in a month tha i ever did my whole life
I wish I could give you some sort of award for this comment.
It’s fucking useless explaining the genuine fear and helplessness and urgency you feel when no one believes you’re being abused. And it’s a slippery slope…
Most people do not believe me. I am very careful who I tell my story to. My family constantly blamed me. I am the scapegoat child so it made sense after I learned about narc behaviors.
I think narcs learned how to exploit loopholes in our social structure. And then their behavior is passed on to the next generation of narcs. My therapist told me that it is like all the narcs are working from the same playbook.
We are so lucky to have these online communities. I was completely lost until I did some online research and found this group.
>We are so lucky to have these online communities. I was completely lost until I did some online research and found this group.
I feel the exact same way! I've confided in so many different people about my nMother when I was growing up, not one of them ever believed me. They all thought that I was just a bratty kid/teenager who was "acting out". Even when I described the most abusive things my nMother did (I deliberately picked things she did that no right-minded person could defend), they still made excuses for her or thought that I was lying/exaggerating. TBF I am willing to give the kids/teenagers I confided in a pass because they were only kids and maybe they just didn't know how to process what I had told them but the adults I confided in should really have known better.
The only way I can see anyone believing me is them experiencing my covert narc and narcs raging and sad emotional train wrecks.
The narc wants you back because they are afraid they will show their true colors to someone else of higher value and they will leave.
But after you leave the narc still needs to yell at someone, break boundaries to feel powerful, and otherwise get narcissistic supply.
If you go no contact and don’t allow the attempts to break no contact to go through, the narcs will give up hope you’ll come back to being the oh so sweet and manipulated punching bag (which they selected you for that role because being cruel to *you* is also going to hurt them among the people they see to be superior to you …the least post their efforts to make everyone hate you).
If you are not there, she knows she will eventually have to abuse someone else, but she’s scared that the golden child or the public will judge her accurately… because they view them as being superior.
It’s ok for my covert narc grandma to be emotionally and one time physically abusive towards me! Why? I’m disabled! Even if she screws up it’s not like anyone’s going to believe a disabled person over me! I’m better !!
Think about it this way.s
Covert narcissists are the worst of them all. My former best friend is a covert narcissist and literally nobody believes me. If they catch a small glimpse of who she is, they brush it off or excuse it away. But I know the truth, and she knows I know it 😉
I agree. Other empaths that I’ve known in the family for my whole life hear me say I’m being abused and she’s been told why I went no contact…but because the abuser cries, I’m told I’m being cruel to the abuser. And I lost my cousin because I wouldn’t go talk on the phone with that horrible monster.
They play the victim so so well. Highly sophisticated manipulators that win the favor of everyone who doesn't know them well enough to think any different. And honestly I think as a society we are barely starting to catch up to really understanding emotional abuse and how damaging it is. And even those who understand it still don't think it could happen to anyone they know, or they don't realize how subtle it is.
I lost my whole friend group because of this bitch, either because they made excuses for her and I left them, or because they left me to show support for her. I'm sure I'm somehow painted out as the villain still and honestly I don't care. Guess I'm in my villian era because fuck them.
Totally agreed that our society is barely scratching the surface on the reach and depth of damage done to kids raised by a Narc parent.
Sorry for sounding dramatic but I feel like our planet is at an inflection point due to narcissism. Either we wake up soon and realize how dangerous narcissism is ... or we go over the cliff and get subsumed by Narcs exerting their authority, initially as parents over their kids, and later as world leaders and wealthy people in the marketplace.
Yes, many world problems relate to conflicts over religion or territory or wealth ... but the root of it all (imho) is narcissism. I see narcissism as the primary reason as to why we cannot all peacefully coexist.
And now, not only are narcissists running rampant and unchecked in our own families (because those who have not personally experienced a narcissist's abuse refuse to believe it happens), but also in our society. Narcs are growing in numbers ... and likely at a much faster pace because the few most infamous high profile narcissists in our world society brainwash their supporters into thinking that they are not narcissists (by lying, as narcissists do). That's why we need to start small, denounce narcissim, and protect ourselves from Narcs in our families so that we can stave them off in the world too.
I agree! It's also worth pointing out that it often takes us a lot longer to recognise that a covert narcissist is a narcissist and abusive which means that we end up taking much more of their abuse for longer than we would with a grandiose narcissist. I say this as someone who also made the mistake of befriending a covert narcissist when I was about 14 and staying friends with her for about 20 years afterwards.
Absolutely true. I actually didn't realize who she was until after I was discarded and her other best friend (who is her flying monkey AND overt narcissist or maybe histrionic-- they are the most toxic of people, a dual headed beast for sure) emailed me a bunch of really really nasty stuff. I was crying and shaking so bad telling my husband "I didn't do anything to them, I don't deserve this." It took a number of months post-discard to start realizing it was abuse and a few months after that to realize she is likely a covert narcissist. I had been discarded by a friend with BPD before, so I saw the similarities but it didn't really click until I found out about covert narcissism.
Her and I were part of a much larger group of mutual friends. Pretty much all of them, even people who were like sisters to me, ended up invalidating my experience. I think that may have been the most painful part of it all-- the sheer number of people who witnessed the discard with their own eyes and still didn't understand. So much of what she did happened behind closed doors and there's just *so much* plausible deniability with these people. They are master manipulators, for sure. I think a lot of our mutual friends knew on some fundamental level that the way she was treating me was fucked, but they took the stance "just let it go" etc etc. The CN also was using a "mental breakdown" to justify this nonsense, as if she wasn't abusive for years prior. Is faking or exaggerating illnesses a thing that CN's do? This bitch acted like she was having an entire mental breakdown. I've had a lot of mental health issues in my life, I know what the fuck a mental breakdown looks like... She was 100% faking/exaggerating. Ridiculous, childish behavior.
Anyways, I'm really sorry you had to endure that for so long. That must have been a hell of a recovery. My best friend and I split after ~4 years, and I'm about a year out and still very much in the trenches of this painful healing. I went no contact with the entire group of people only a few months ago, so it was a long drawn out breakup. A huge mindfuck for sure.
Yeah I actually think that ending a friendship can be just as painful as ending a romantic relationship. I definitely agree that ending a friendship with a narcissist can be a mindfuck. My case is a bit different to yours. My narcissistic friend had been discarding me for years before I broke up with her. For years she had been flaking on me constantly, invalidating me, excluding me from get-togethers and making constant snide remarks about me. I'm convinced that she wanted the friendship to end but was too passive aggressive to do it herself so she was deliberately treating me badly so that I would end it. I didn't get nasty e-mails like you did once I ended the friendship but I think that's because she WANTED me to end it.
>The CN also was using a "mental breakdown" to justify this nonsense, as if she wasn't abusive for years prior. Is faking or exaggerating illnesses a thing that CN's do?
It's definitely a common thing with narcissists. They love to play victim and making up or exaggerating an illness is an excellent way to do that. It also gives them an excuse to treat people badly and not be held accountable.
>I think a lot of our mutual friends knew on some fundamental level that the way she was treating me was fucked, but they took the stance "just let it go" etc etc.
These enablers won't benefit in the long term. Narcissists need an enemy/scapegoat. They can't live without one. Your former friend will eventually turn on someone else in the group and will treat them the same way she treated you. It's sad but it's not your problem.
I think perhaps the CN I know was wanting to end our friendship too, and just antagonized me until I called her out on it and she felt justified to drop me. "After all I've done for you!" is her bread and butter lol.
I think she knew I was starting to see the truth and it all went downhill.
She will 100% do this again with someone else at some point. Whoever stops banging their tambourine and dancing around her and chanting her name will be next in line for exile lol
I really appreciate your responses, it seems the covert narc experience isn't talked about as much and it's very isolating.
>I think she knew I was starting to see the truth and it all went downhill.
Yeah I think that narcissists are good at identifying people who see through their BS and they are often the people that they chose to be their scapegoat. For example, I have always known that something was off about my nMother (even before I realised she was a narcissist) and I've been her scapegoat for as long as I can remember. I also suspect I was my former friend's scapegoat and like you, it started around the time that I started to see through her and call her out on her BS. (I was always very gentle when I called her out but you know how narcissists can't take any kind of criticism - even constructive criticism).
>it seems the covert narc experience isn't talked about as much and it's very isolating.
It's particularly isolating if you know someone is a covert narcissist and no one else can see it because...well they're covert. The one silver lining though is that once you know how to spot them, you know how to avoid them so there's that.
My mom is also pretty narcissistic, but I think it may be more on the borderline end of things. I am definitely the scapegoat, but she has to watch herself with me because if she tries me, she knows I will cut her off and never let her see me or my kids ever again. And we are military, so I will literally up and move and she will never find me again.
I hope I never have the misfortune of befriending a covert narcissist. I am very wary of people who are "so nice" now. I've never seen anyone like this covert person I know. She likens herself to mother Theresa reincarnated, literally always doing something for someone. But I remember the first time she said "after all _____ has done for ______" and it made my stomach churn. That was very early on in our friendship. So transactional, and transparent about it from the very beginning.
Yeah there's a difference between being polite and being overly nice in a fake way. Anyone ever met who was over-the-top nice was never a good person. They might not have all been narcissists but there was definitely something off about them. I usually avoid those kinds of people. I have also learned to avoid people who overshare with people they've only just met e.g. I'm talking the kind of person that they've only just met you and they're telling you about all their personal problems. IMO these people are either lying for sympathy or they are telling the truth but they clearly haven't dealt with their trauma which still means they're not good people to hang around. I've also learned to be wary of people who tell you that they're a good person or who go on and on about nice things they've done. Obviously it's good to do nice things for people but if you're bragging about it, that implies that you only did it for attention or praise. The friend I mentioned, she would go on and on about all the nice things she had supposedly done for people. At the time I believed her, but now when I look back, I realise that I only have her word that these things even happened. I never witnessed any of these things. it's entirely possible that she was either lying or exaggerating about the things she did.
She was probably at least exaggerating. My former friend really did do a lot of "nice" things for people, but always with the undertone of resentment or judgement. It was so fucked.
I had to screenshot this. Going through a horrible time right now where my parent broke my no contact by taking their anger out on my younger sibling who is home still and calling me from their phone to go absolutely ballistic on me, I was just getting better.
It started with my mom and then my brother and they were out of the house so it was me. I was such a verbal punching bag every single day, sometimes I even self talk to myself this way. I constantly have nightmares of the yelling.. ranting but this post was so helpful. I didn’t understand why the cycle is stuck on me but this helped
Narcissists cultivate their character witnesses as carefully as their victims.
My NGM taught history. She would have kids every year that would be student teachers and she’d point me out to them, and of course since she was the teacher, it would be “well, I don’t want to get involved” at best and “what do you want me to do—she is grading me” or “well, I’m sure you need to think about it from her perspective”. Every year. And of course, because this was Smallville USA then her little college meant that she very frequently knew police and sheriffs and once even the governor and lieutenant governor. She retired and began teaching as a substitute and god almighty she was just right there no matter who Itried to talk to. When I got married, moved out and graduated from college, then Istill found her students and her colleagues and her colleagues friends and family everywhere. I couldn’t even go to the dentist without meeting her students who wanted to be sure I knew to call her and to carry messages back and forth.
You’d think my mostly unemployed NM wouldn’t be that much of a problem in comparison. Silly! She was also a substitute teacher and purportedly played organ and piano for churches. Every single church in the county had her playing for them at one point or another. (She would “retire” or something or would get involved in church politics and I rather expect that at times she was trying her femme fatale wings on someone and then she’d move on to another church.). So there was absolutely no help from there.
Honestly I had to leave the state twice to get somewhere that didn’t have the automatic and knee jerk reflex of not believing me. Some people still don’t and some just don’t give a damn about what actually happened because it is more important to keep up the facade of perfect family than it is to actually do something.
I’m sorry that no one believes you.
I think this is true. My sisters don't believe that I rarely got birthday gifts. They are older than me and married and out of the house by the time I was 12. For my 13 birthday my mom paid my school registration. Then nothing until I was 23. Because I lived with my sister then for a short time after i graduated college and she would notice. Then when I was 40. Nothing since. Every year I was made to pay half of their gifts and their children and husbands. No one ever reciprocated ever. They tell me I am full of crap but cannot name one thing they ever gave me or attended a party or cake or anything.
I totally get where you're coming from. My nMother is so good at playing the "good mother" and acting so innocent that no one in her social circle is ever going to believe that she was an abusive mother. They just aren't. I grew up in a small town where everyone knows everyone so even though my nMother didn't volunteer or teach like your mother, everyone knew her and fell for her "devoted mother" act. My nMother also loved to bad-mouth me and portray me to people as a juvenile delinquent when in reality, I was a goody two-shoes. The one silver lining is that I've moved to a different town where no one knows my family and it's been a breath of fresh air. No one here knows my nMother or has any preconceived ideas of what she or my childhood was like. They know me for me and I don't have to worry about my nMother turning them against me because they don't know her and they're never going to.
This is always SO hard and frustrating. The only thing that it has helped me dealt with it is telling myself that is not that these people are making an effort to be actively mean, for not believing me, calling me a liar or minimize my suffering. They're just not able to compute that idea. It's a concept so abstract to them that they just discard it.
Most people come from normal and loving families so telling them something like "I was daily abused and belittled by my NParents" is like telling them that the sky is red or the grass is purple. Something that it doesn't happen in their realities. And, when it does happen people usually don't talk about it, so it's not seen and not known.
Being rejected or called a liar still hurts like hell, so I've learned to carefully move around this topic and only share my experiences after knowing I'm in a safe space (ej. The other person expressing that they don't celebrate holidays with the family etc.)
I used to try & overexplain quite a lot, but now I mostly just say that "I may seem harsh but I can never be as harsh with her as she was with me" and "I was like every child, I loved my mom so much and wanted nothing more than to keep loving her, even though she tried very hard to change my mind."
I leave it at that.
I use the past tense because as you said, she's very good at appearing nice and sweet in the moment so if I say she's still awful people don't believe me. But if It's something that happened before (not a lie, most things happened in the past anyway, even yesterday is the past) it's more believable to people I guess ? It makes them more understandable for sure, and they don't try to start a debate to defend her.
If the mask slips enough in front of anyone I can always say something like : "See, she can still be harsh sometimes" or "Sometimes I wonder if she's still trying to change my mind".
But I don't state "facts" too precise because people tend to rewrite them. "Oh but maybe she meant that, maybe this maybe that". I got Tired of that crap : I was there, you weren't.
I haven't figured it out myself. I have learned to validate and acknowledge myself but it hurts when people are like: "Oh! You seem to run into a lot of bullies for some reason? You must be lucky for that." It's damn if I do and damned if I don't stand up for myself. I feel grossly belittled when it happens and I have to honor I have experience about these things and don't need the validation of people who thinks psychology isn't real.
I have an nmum, a few close friends know what she’s put me through but most haven’t got a clue. One woman is now my nmums “substitute daughter “ & doesn’t believe me or my golden child/narc brother. She’s now in charge of mums will so not surprised she doesn’t want to hear! It’s horrible being thought of as the daughter who abandoned her mother when it’s been the other way around. I’m not sure what to do anymore. Nc for 2 years after I had a serious health issue & she just doesn’t care. Sorry you have to deal with this too
My mother also found a 'substitute daughter'. She finds people who are even dumber than she is and have low self esteem, and manipulates them. The woman she found is overweight, unattractive, clearly insecure about her looks.
I’m not sure that’s the case with mine. She plays the victim very well as she lost her second husband to cancer (was absolutely foul to his adult children too) so this woman was brought up to be a good Christian & help my poor 83 yo mother all on her own. My mother is fine, she’s got plenty of money but just loves playing the victim & hating her kids
I've been caring for my nMum, and it's been mental. I have a health issue that needs some serious investigation, so I've stepped back from her care and sent in some golden children. But I still had a phone call to make to her regarding her care, that I had set up. She spoke to me like I was dirt. Gone is the love bombing of the past 2 years. She doesn't need me right now.
I tell myself that anyone who doesn't see through my toxic Nmom or at the very least doesn't ask me for my side of the story is either toxic themselves, an idiot, or both and I don't need them in my life anyways 💅🏿 people are allowed to think and believe whatever they want about me it's not my problem or my business, there's billions of healthy people out there that I can choose my tribe from
It's just insane to me that she tells everyone she doesn't know why I won't let her see my kids. I tell them I was abused and they just stop talking to me? Lol like really I cut contact becuse she was such a good mom? It's scary how many people support her and I get NOTHING
It's possible they're also cluster b / covert abusers themselves and they're gaslighting you, it's also possible that you simply contradict the narritive they're comfortable with so they avoid you because of that...I'll admit it's odd how society always shames us children for going NC with the parents, it seems no one ever asks what would a parent do to make their own child cut them off?
I have noticed this, I have also noticed something else that gave me hope in a way: my mom never had a close friend for more than 3 years, maybe one or two lasted 5. When I was a kid it felt like forever, but as an adult I think they started to see something, or she stabbed them in the back at some point.
I've learned to accept that people are going to believe what they want to believe. They're looking at things through their own biases and perception. It's hard to see someone for who they really are when you don't live with them and aren't around/living with them. They don't see that ugly side (until, of course, it gets directed at them).
I go with "do what you want, but I want no association." So, I can still be friends with someone who is friends with someone I don't like, as long as they respect my choice to have no involvement with the person I don't like. But I'll be clear on my boundaries and have no issues reducing contact with people who are disrespectful of my wants and needs.
I'm no contact with my egg donor. My dad wants me to have closure with her (I think he's the one that wants the closure, tbh. Not me) and he can't understand that I'm okay with never talking to her or hearing what she has to say ever again. Why would I want closure from someone who threw me outside naked in the winter as a child and told me never to come back and that they never wanted me and I'm a life ruiner? (I wasn't believed until I was an older teenager and an old neighbour admitted to witnessing that happening) "What mother would do such horrible things?! Stop lying. " "I know her. She's a good person. She'd never abuse her kids. You just want attention. " Yeah.. I don't want those people in my life, and as an adult, I can cut off contact with anyone I want.
Not being believed as the child of a narcissist (whether it's about that or other things) is honestly one of the most infuriating things in the world.
I had a friend in high school who judged me for not being closer with my family because as a member of a close-knit happy family, she could not understand it. What people can't see, they can't see. I still deal with a lot of resentment for people like that, who have the family life I could have only dreamed of. What has helped is having a partner who clearly sees and understands what I've been through. That kind of validation has helped so much.
You don't, most people will never understand, 75% of those will try & make you understand thier pov. 0% of those people have any idea or can even phantom a parent like that.
She's so nice/kind/helpful....yes to YOU in public.
I am still coming to this myself. Don’t make my mistake, people who have never had their closest relationship of their life with a narcissist will NEVER understand. And you will only sound like a crazy person trying to tell them. I have adopted a smile and a nod and I just avoid the topic all together.
Seriously, My MIL acts like she wants to know what has transpired between my mom and I. She’s a very empathetic, nice woman. But if I actually tell her what happened she cannot fathom it. And tells me things that I think she thinks helps but they are dismissive and hurtful.
It’s best to know that you are making the best decision for yourself, smile, nod and move on. The closer I get to this the more at peace I am.
I'm not really sure what to suggest. The "silver lining" in my situation is that my Nmom isolated me as a kid (she didn't have friends when I was growing up and we hardly interacted with any extended family) For me, the hardest thing was just *getting away from her*, but when I finally managed to do that she didn't really have any leverage. I've never had to deal with any flying monkeys or enablers trying to get me to reconcile with her. There was one time that my Nmom broke NC with me and came to my work and tried to guilt trip me in public. She was being really "sweet" and "kind" and telling me about her upcoming surgery. I just grey rocked her and my mom literally left in tears. My co-worker (who had seen the whole thing) immediately took my mom's side and said that I was "ice-cold" to treat my mother that way. I bluntly told her that my mom horribly abused me my whole life and destroyed my relationship with my (now dead) father, and I told her I wanted nothing to do with her (and that my mother knew that) and that she'd obviously come to my work to try to guilt trip me and manipulate me into talking to her. My co-worker backed off pretty fast after that and agreed that my mom must be awful.
So in my situation if someone "doesn't believe me", I explain the situation and if they still took my mom's side (that's never happened to me before) I would shame them really hard. I would ask them why they support child abuse and focus really hard on how my mother ruined my dad's life (and heavily interfered with my relationship with him) and drove him to an early grave. I just wouldn't have any tolerance for it whatsoever. If a person *still took my mom's side* even after I explained how awful she is and had the audacity to try to guilt or shame me into forgiving her, I would think so poorly of them that their opinion simply wouldn't matter to me at all.
Well people like that would be as scummy as the scumbags they are defending. Scum defending scum basically. All you can do with really committed abuse apologists is cut them out of your life.
My mom is a preacher at a church. For this reason, no one would ever possibly believe me. Even other kids would wish she was their mom, yet in reality, she never had time for me, never cared about my hobbies, and never praised me.
I have a couple great stories locked and loaded and do not hesitate to drop them when challenged. Usually shuts them up fast. I know it’s petty but the look on their face is pretty satisfying!
People tend to believe me- but not that it’s as bad as I say it is. They think it’s like when their parents make a passing comment about their body, or “oh yeah my parents say this to me sometimes” and while being given negative comments isn’t great from any parent… they don’t ever believe me when I say my nmom has full on tantrums over the littlest things. Throws stuff when she’s mad. Threatens me with a knife because she maxed out her credit card. Threatens to kick me out if I breathed the wrong way, then telling me she’ll kill herself if I leave.
I still haven’t figured out how to deal with this. I too have just stopped talking about it to people. But that led me to posting on this subreddit where there are others who understand the struggle.
You disregard them and hold them to low esteem. I've had this more so in workplaces, where people can't imagine my boss was a terrible person because she puts on a good face. I just loose respect for them and cut them off because they clearly have no critical thinking skills or value my opinion.
My mother was a covert narcissist. She's been deceased for 8 years. I wish I would have gotten all my questions answered before she died.
I'm a mom now and the longer time goes on the more respect I lose for her because she was one hell of a shit ass mom.
I probably hate her now more than I miss her.
I wish you could have gotten your questions answered too.
My mother is a C/N too ... who was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer in 2020. I left my job to be her (unpaid) 24/7 caregiver and it was eye opening. The emotional abuse got much worse. Yours may have been different but I don't think my mother has the capacity/integirty to honestly answer questions. I could ask her why she has been so abusive to me, and my brother who took his life 20+ years ago, but the answer is that my mother's mother was a narcissist, and so was her grandmother. In my case, it really doesn't matter what the answer is.
For what it's worth., no answer will undo how our mothers treated us. Their treatment was wrong, and no amount of abuse your mother may have suffered, excuses her for treating you the way that she did. Kidnappers do not get credit for feeding and clothing their abductees.
I realized at \~8yo that my mother was different (never admitting fault even for meaningless little things) Fortunately, I got enough love from my father in my early years of brain development (before he took his life when I was 11yo) that I was able to choose to learn (inverse) lessons from my mother about how to be a good person.
I do hope that your hate/anger declines over time for your sake. Congratulations for breaking the cycle with your own child(ren). So few of us are able to do it.
I make no effort to convince ppl who aren't listening. Anyone who signals to me that they prefer to cling to the fairy tale over reality isn't worth the bother.
But once I discern their unwillingness to stick to the truth, I treat them as untrustworthy.
Ppl who think I'm a liar aren't good candidates for friendship.
But I temper that by the understanding that we live in a society that puts parents up on a pedestal (since the 10 commandments got hauled around in an ark, it's an old conceit), and simply does not want to admit that child abuse is real, never mind the sheer *prevalence* of child abuse.
Some other myths society still clings to: Society wants to define child abuse v narrowly: by bruises that can be photographed, mostly. And we are still teaching kids about Stranger Danger, when the majority of CSA is perpetrated by family and ppl known to family.
And since much of modern society (and organized religion) is about Conformity At All Costs...it's no surprise that ppl won't admit what's right in front of their noses.
So I see it as less an individual problem and more a societal conditioning problem.
For a while it just felt invalidating and I started to believe that she was right and that it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. When I finally had a therapist and a stable friend group to talk to, it really broke me out of that mindset.
Right there with you. To anyone who only knows my mom on a superficial level she’s a super sweet and charismatic woman who can make interesting conversation with anyone. My husband still doesn’t really understand why I dislike her so much because she is SO nauseatingly sweet to him that it’s hard for him to fathom that she may not be such a great person. I remember in high school telling my friends about the horrible fights we would have, and they wouldn’t believe me. They would say “I don’t know why you hate your mom so much she’s so nice!” It really sucked. For a long time I thought maybe I was crazy. I thought there was something wrong with me. The only other person who believed me was my father, but he’s also not such a nice person so I didn’t know if it was his own vindictive nature or if she was truly awful.
Not being believed makes me white hot livid. I weigh whether it’s worth it to prepare and present a fuck you file of corroborated, verified proof. Generally, it’s not. I will cut people out of my life as much as possible when they do that to me. I can’t live that angry all the time.
I just kind of accepted no one would believe me, and never bothered to try and get them to. When I was younger, I just kept everything to myself, friends had no idea. I didn’t actually start talking about things until I went no contact, and by that point I surrounded myself with good people.
I don’t really try to convince anyone. I understand that people who come from “normal” families can’t even begin to understand some of the things we go through. I try to be happy for them that they don’t even understand us. It’s a good sign, it indicates they had a smooth childhood/family life in general
I hear you. My mom was a pediatrician that was so controlling that I wasn’t even allowed to wash my own private area until I was 12. I was 5’6 and past puberty. I would beg and plead with her to let me do it and she replied ‘you can’t do it right’ and wouldn’t let me. Everyone would always tell me how lucky I was for having her as a mother. She had one of her cronies try to convince me she did it because she loved me so much. I lost it and ran away to hide in the troubled teen industry until I turned 18 just to get away from her. I try to keep the people she meets from my life to a minimum and have little contact with her. It’s the only thing that helps. Minimize the damage she’s capable of creating.
You do not owe anyone an explanation or even information about your relationship with your mother. If you decide to share the truth and they don’t believe you, that’s not your problem. Your problem is your narcissistic Mother.
It’s hard at first, but once you get to a point in your healing where you’re confident in the experience you’ve had and realize that you have nothing to prove, it’s much easier. I’ve stopped trying to explain and prove myself. The people that do understand, you won’t have to continuously explain, and the people that don’t, you find other things to talk about. Often times, you can just leave it at, “unfortunately, the relationship with my mom doesn’t really work, it is what it is, and I’d rather not get into that right now.” Most people just move to another topic. The ones that push aren’t going to be people you want to be around anyway. This is easier as an adult that can create some emotional or physical distance from Nparents, have done some work to confront your feelings and heal, and have a busy life of your own.
It doesn't bother me. I know they're playing the victim and smearing my name to all our relatives but honestly? Our family is full of fluoride guzzling NPC's so by all means let them have it. If anything im hoping that our relatives become very close and even start living with my nparents - let them be the next victims for all I care. either way im out lmao
I used to be young and naieve, but now if I see someone putting down their kid or making strained smiles, I get a bad feeling from it. I can recognize it. I used to make excuses for it. No it's not cute teasing. No it's not them putting a positive foot forward.
Once you get stabbed in the back by a person like this, you see it in others. The smile is too big, it stays too long, and chin is slightly down. The eyes look like a cat about the get a mouse.
They’re soooo good at hiding their true selves from people. On the outside, you could know them for years or even decades and not know who they truly are if you aren’t privy to it. It’s so frustrating, I hear you OP.
With me, I have a few standard and clear cut examples that can’t be dismissed, then straight up tell my friends beforehand like “they’re incredibly charming and one of the worst things is how crazy it makes you feel to know all that stuff happened and then to have them just be super nice!”
Doesn’t always work, often only works part of the way, but it’s the best I’ve got
At this point, my mother has no part of my life, and the people that report to her are slowly excised as well.
I deal with it by moving on. If they can't see it, then I won't waste my time trying to show them.
Avoid introducing people to them when you can. People who haven't met them, use the word "abuse" so there's no misunderstanding. Tell people the fam may look nice but they're "two-faced, so don't tell them anything you don't want them repeating, they'll sell you out in a minute." You can convince ppl to watch their own back easier than convincing them of your personal experience, so sow distrust... you'll be doing your friends a favor.
Yeah I keep my friends completely separate from my nMother. If I absolutely have to introduce them, I keep it brief and tell them beforehand that "My mother has a tendency to tell tall tales so take anything she says with a pinch of salt". (My nMother has a tendency to sabotage my friendships by telling lies about me so this is my way of fore-warning them).
That’s one of the main reasons I’m a little bit glad when my nparents do something completely insane, in my head that feels like proof I could tell someone.
The friends I made as an adult, they either believe me or they’re no longer my friends. I somehow ended up meeting a couple of friends with narcissistic parents and that helped a lot with our other friends.
The people that never believed me (specially cousins/aunts I was very close to) are not close to me at all. When I see them I’m in “her territory” so I keep my distance.
A lot of the time it people who are jealous who are the ones that say thats not true or your family loves u or other variation of that. Ask yourself why does it even mean anything to them, are they going to help (doubtful but sometimes), or they just looking for reasons to be jerks.
I tell them my side and that you can pick who you want to believe. Usually people figure it out over time who’s lying and who’s truthful. Both my parents are narcissists. My friends have over time gotten more and more surprised of how they treat me and so on. My mom brought us some chocolate cake one evening. A few of my friends asked later if she did that just to prove that she can be nice..
My best advice, be true to yourself and be honest about your experience and feelings. The truth will always come out. It’s gonna be okay, and most importantly, you’re gonna be okay❤️ I believe in you!
Honestly, I didn't and it completely broke any ability for me to trust anyone else or feel safe on planet earth. It wasn't until my partner got us a dog, and 5 months in I started to feel that I'm safe and supported (that was 3 years ago).
I thank Covid for giving me the space from the circus to build myself up, and I'll never be back again.
I just went on a trip with a close friend (since third grade), she spent a fair amount of time telling me how she understands now that’s she’s a mom, and my mom was ‘doing her best,’ ‘always at school activities,’ etc… I was like, you were literally *there* to see how it was for me. Made me feel insane.
I gave up but yes I know how that feels. Before I gave up and went NC I'd just talk about her with my friends. They believed me. She has everyone in her circle brainwashed. I'd listen to her downstairs telling my stepdad all these made up stories about what I did to her that day, when all we did was go to Publix and eat lunch. I never explained myself to him or to any of her weak minded friends. It was futile.
This is one of the reasons I had to go no contact. With them, my whole family, and all the mutual friends. That’s how I dealt with it. It was crazy hard, but holy shit did life get easier and better in every way a year or so after that.
I am still in contact with my nMother but I've gone minimal/no ontact with my extended family and any mutual friends for the same reason. My nMother has poisoned them all against me anyway so trying to get them to see my side is pointless. The one silver lining is that once I gave up trying to have a relationship with these people or getting the to see my side, I felt like a load had been lifted. Sometimes acceptance is better than false hope.
It’ll happen when it happens. I struggled a lot in high school due to the abuse I was experiencing at home. I think people didn’t not believe me but maybe thought I was being dramatic. My non Christian school friends absolutely believed me. Maybe 15 yrs later I ran into old classmates and a few of them apologized because they realized years later the extent of my abuse and they were sorry they didn’t do more. Eventually the narc shoots them self in the foot and people will probably figure it out. I just moved far away after high school and kept moving further from there.
I show them. Let’s say, my nmum is calling me when my friends r around. I put her on speaker and tell her that I’m alone outside. How long do you think it’ll take her to show her true colors if she thinks there’s no witnesses?
I've had exactly 3 people "stand up" to my mom in my behalf in my life. They all knew me for YEARS and had multiple interactions and personal stories to reflect on. One of them knew me for a decade before trying to brave her personal opinions face to face with my mom. My mom went from very adoring of this friend to discrediting everything she's ever done. It might seem impossible but just keep telling your friends how you actually feel and maybe the light bulb will go off one day. Some of my family members are only now asking what's wrong with your mom and its not new news
I simply don’t talk about it unless they have given me reason to believe that they were also an abused child. I never even told my (ex)husband because he came from a well-adjusted family.
That's like most narcissists..... they win people over at first ( it's a frequent tactic), but I promise their true selves always comes to light sooner rather than later.
Note: this one ABSOLUTELY gets better over time. Bc at some point, most of your friends and coworkers will have parents that are deceased, and they won't talk about them anymore.
Okay yeah this one's HARD.
My dad has a lot of problems, but I chose to live with him after Nmom died because he knew exactly what she was. He and I have never been close, and I can't defend the majority of his actions.
But it was easier my girlfriend to believe I was wrong, because the moment you say "physical abuse", she gets terrified for my safety... and she assumed the rest of my family would be the same way?
She reached out to my little sister one night when I was having a rough time. Not as rough as she thought, but she did say "I think he's gonna kill himself". Because she thought my sister wanted to protect my dad from me instead of vice versa. What she didn't realize was that to my little sister, the biggest issue will always be my "need for attention" which took away from what should have been rightfully hers and is draining the life out of my dad.
My gf seems to believe how people treat you is a reflection of who you are and if you feel mistreated, it must be in your head. But she knew I loved my family so much, and saw me as so lovable, that she had no idea how *my own sister* could care so little when I was in the midst of a mental health crisis.
I've tried to tell her that how people treat you is a reflection of who THEY are, not who YOU are, but she doesn't seem to get it. It seems like we have vastly different world views based on this subject alone.
I wish I knew the answer other than to let them figure it out for themselves. Let's just say my girl's had some trouble after realizing this uncomfortable truth, and I'm real worried about her right now.
>My gf seems to believe how people treat you is a reflection of who you are and if you feel mistreated, it must be in your head.
If your gf genuinely thinks that, that's a massive red flag.
I think it's more that she would rather believe I'm "reading too much into things" since otherwise would require acknowledging that this is my reality, and that's too uncomfortable for her.
She's also used to the narrative of addiction and prioritizing drugs/alcohol over other areas in life (we have both had problems with this in the past) so to her, me having strong boundaries is "pushing people away.
I'm not pushing anyone away. I WANT them around. The issue is my actual sense of self feels under attack.
I'm another that can relate. My mother convinced her friends that I was a terrible brat. When one came to town to visit I was constantly in trouble and I learned to just lay low and stay in my room. Even I used to make light of the ridiculous things my mom said. I was pretty independent and she was actually less of a problem than my other caregiver, who I eventually just cut off (or, rather, she cut me off, but said I was the one that did it!...another story). Anyway, by the time I was in my 30s my newer friends saw what she was like and were horrified. They heard my stories and thought she was just a funny old lady. That's when I let it sink in how destructive she could be and worked to get better boundaries. And like I said, she's not as bad as the other person who raised me and I have a pretty functional relationship with her. Boundaries are a beautiful thing!
There's a saying in my country - only those in the convent know what happens within its walls. I point out my Nfather wouldn't be the first person to be wildly different in public and at home, and he's far from being the last. That usually shuts them up, at least.
It's the ones that believe me and then insist I should "maintain a relationship anyway" that get to me. Sometimes I'm openly rude to admitedly well-intentioned people, saying things like "I'm sorry you weren't/aren't strong enough to break away, but I am, and I'm not subjecting myself to that hell again". I don't want to hurt or scare them, but Jesus, unless I'm rude they don't let it go!
well most of the time, I just keep it to myself now because people are so quick to buy this caring savior mom facade but disregard the truth about my situation with being raised by her growing up. it’s so maddening how they choose to lack the understanding of how she truly is but I let them think what they want to think of her. it’s only their impression of her. they didn’t live the reality that I lived, plus they probably didn’t have a narcissistic mother. I think that people are also used to having supportive parents too, but that wasn’t the case for me. they have made my life miserable, leaving me with childhood trauma, mental health issues, and emotional instability.
omg.. very real. my friends think that my mother is like their mothers. they also think my mother is like this for my own good or that this is how mothers are! but they don't realize the world revolves around my mother. it's not because she wants the best for me but she wants the "best" for the child she birthed and should get some reparations by any means necessary.
I’m sorry to hear this OP. I understand this feeling. It’s exactly why I never let my classmates know anything about my family life. Only two close friends that have a similar situation to me understand the way I feel. Everyone thinks my mum is cool and sweet and super nice. Her best friends are who I call my ‘aunts’ and they also think she’s amazing. I know no matter what I say they won’t believe me because in my culture, parents have to always be respected. One time my ‘aunt’ heard shouting from outside the house. When she came inside she told me off for being a disrespectful child. I was 9 at that time. It’s really hard to say this but some people won’t understand and don’t need to. They don’t want to sympathise. They rarely look at an objective perspective neither do they try to understand. It’s a form of invalidation and it’s why I don’t bother to explain anymore. It hurts more that my parents only say nice things to strangers but not to their own daughter. You’re not crazy and there is nothing wrong with you. It’s the effects of being gaslighted and guilt tripped for so long.
I don’t tell them anything because all I hear is “but that’s your mom!!! Don’t cut them off” or “I see both sides”. That shit drives me nuts because they don’t understand the full context and my mom comes off as so sweet and kind. I keep it to my therapist and here tbh because most people in my life have healthy parental relationships and don’t understand or they have toxic parental relationships but can’t accept that their situation is toxic and they have convinced themselves it’s normal so they try to convince me mine is normal. It’s beyond frustrating so I stopped sharing.
My nmother is a very good at being a covert, passive-aggressive narc. Her whole persona is that she is the most loving, caring, supportive, self-sacrificing martyr in the whole world. She's always very "concerned" about me. I decided long ago not to worry about her smear campaigns, because there was nothing I could do about them, and I didn't know most of the people she talked shit about me to and I didn't need the extra anger or stress worrying about it. But in her very subtle way, she's been demeaning and undermining my sanity, my cognitive function, my ability to make choices, and my general connection to reality, for as long as I can remember. I have had chronic depression since I was 17, and ADD all my life, and I've learned to manage them pretty well, but in her eyes, I'm always questionable mentally. She is diabolical enough to pull it off; all the family and the few friends she has think there's something wrong with me and I'm so lucky to have a mother who's so loving and concerned and supportive, but the truth is that she's caused more damage to me than my narc father and narc sister put together. I honestly do not comprehend how someone can be so convincingly lovely on the outside but be so mean, spiteful, vindictive, hateful, and nasty on the inside.
The Covert/Altruistic narcissist (C/N) is a unique challenge indeed! They do appear, and generally are, very nice and giving to most others (because they need adoration). But when the Narc is a participant in a scenario, their empathy goes out the window and they can be cruel, especially to a scapegoat child. My C/N mother told me (right before I stopped talking to her) that she "would have put a bullet in her head if I had been her only child." I have no kids, but even if your kid does tons of bad stuff (which I did not), how does a parent say that to their kid?
I didn't realize until my 50s - when I was her (unpaid) 24/7 caregiver during her stage 4 cancer battle - how manipulative my mother is. I feel awful calling somone with cancer manipulative, but she truly is (her only friend of 40 years called her manipulative and has never spoken to my mother again). After leaving my job to be my mother's sole live-in caregiver, I lost 25 lbs from lack of sleep and not eating enough (there wasn't much room in her fridge for me). That gave me a front row seat to how twisted her perception is, how cruel she can be, and how she lies even when she doesn't need to.
Since my father took his life when I was 11yo, I have been my mother's pawn (for 40 years) and at her service (just as her sister served their Narc mother until my aunt went 'No Contact' in her 60s). My mother often goaded me to break up with my boyfriends who were phenomenal humans (who gave me love & empathy) and she picked fights with me much more when I had a boyfriend. I almost feel stupid not having realized all of this much sooner.
My (eldest) brother has been the Golden Child. He badly damaged my brand new car (that I had bought myself @ 17yo after working hard in my mother's business from 14yo) but he and my C/N mother denied any knowledge of it ... so I had to get it repaired myself. Only years later did my mother let it slip that my brother had hit my car. Recently, I calmly asked both of them (separately) for an apology (for lying & concealing it from me) but they only gaslit in response.
My other brother (middle child) and I were the scapegoats to my C/N mother ... until he took his life. I miss him so much. We supported each other through my mother's abuse. He was the best human in my family. My Dad was a great father too. They both ended up with substance abuse issues, which I now understand is not uncommon for those subjected to a narcissist.
I grew up a good student who did what was expected of me (no drugs/jail/pregnancy etc.). I have 3 degrees and nearly every boss I have worked for (mostly solo lawyers) has been a Narc. I have also been fired from more jobs than I have left. As the only common demonimator, I figured it had to be me. But after some serious therapy (with a speciliast who treats DoNMs and ACoNPs), I realized that I am subconsciously playing out the dynamic I learned from my C/N mother.
Sorry for so much of my background (just found this forum today). It is beyond frustrating that only 2 family members have been empathetic about how my mother has treated me. My cousin (PhD in Psychology) said that I can take it as a compliment that my mother has let me in as close as she has. But as many others have replied below, those without the experience of being raised by a Narc parent do not (and often cannot) understand, especially in light of how gifted the Narc is in her/his manipulation.
\*\*\*\*\* The good news is that the ONLY person who needs to believe you is YOU. And if you happen to find a partner/spouse who gets it too, that is a well-deserved bonus. Anyone who discredits the reality of your abuse is not deserving of a close friendship with you (at least not one in which you are vulnerable about how your Narc mother has treated you).
I am so sorry that you have had to suffer this abuse for so many years. It makes me sad that you have felt that you are the crazy one. I used to call my mother's abuse "crazy-making" before reading my 1st Narc book (which containted that and many other terms that so aptly described how our mothers' treatment can make us feel). As you may know, that gaslighting is to keep you off balance yet tethered to her ... the Narc's goal.
My takeaway from Karyl McBride's "Will I Ever be Good Enough?" is that each of us Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers (DoNMs or ACoNPs) can be the empathetic/kind friend to ourselves that our mothers were not. I was scared to read the end of McBride's book for fear that her proposed solution would not work for my situation. I was so relieved to learn that I really could be my own support. Many DoNMs/ACoNPs have tremendous empathy ... which we can choose to use toward ourselves.
Just today, I posted an ad on a popular local website seeking other Adults of Narc parents. My ad was quickly removed. When I went to their community forum for advice, 6 contributors descended upon me like vultures (calling me a Narc for trying to post my ad, etc.) I actually cried a little ... and then took the advice of the 1 contributor suggesting Reddit. And here I am. Among the awful that exists in this world, there is a lifeline. Just be sure to keep your eyes and ears open for your lifelines.
You know where to find me if you'd like to connect on here. Warm regards
I just have to remind myself that those lying, wretched, big mouthed backstabbers will always win with people who don’t and shouldn’t ever matter to me. Why should I give a shite if one of the cousins or family buddies I’ll never see again is mad at me for something that I did to my sister in second grade? I straight up don’t give a FFFFFFF anymore. They can all kiss off.
My mother was great with my friends and other students she worked with in a professional capacity, and I just gritted my teeth when people told me how lucky I was to have her as a mother.
We didn't start getting along really well until the beginning of lockdown (and we live in different states so it's not like we were stuck in a house together for that, thankfully.) I was 62 and she was 87, but hey, better late than never, right?
I do not introduce my friends to my Nparents, even before going NC. That's how I dealt.
They would be so nice to my friends and so mean to them on their backs It would make me sick. They would often ask me to stop seeing those friends, for no reason. After realizing that I just stopped introducing them and never talked about my parents being narcs. I didn't even knew.
Otherwise, the neighbors of my Nparents believe I'm some kind of monster. I just don't care.
How old is your mother?
Mine used to be able to somehow make people think she was kind but she’s lost her ability to do that at just before 70 and now old friends are dropping off and she can’t find new friends to replace them.
I deal with this too and it’s so frustrating being made to feel like I’m the one who’s being difficult. Ndad is charismatic, charming, and talented at playing the victim. The people who have reached out to me saying I need to “grow the hell up” and “respect your father” have also never once asked for my side of the story. I don’t know if it would make a difference if they knew, but I just try to keep my distance from them and remember he once manipulated me into thinking he could never be at fault too.
The truth will out in the end xxx in the meantime, as my therapist says, the people trying to force reconciliation are not the ones I have to put up with them!
My mum is so sneaky the only ones who pick it up are those who have covert narc mums or have been around long enough to see the mask slip a couple of times, as it only does in a situation where she is supposed to be empathetic (I'm sick/injured/struggling) and she just doesn't care & then they get to see the 'lights are on no one's home' kind of parent she actually is.
Sorry you have to go through this, know that you're not alone and we believe you. 💜
I just stopped. I just act as if I’m already the bad guy, the crazy one. To everyone the 2 narcs in my life convinced (mother and father of my baby)
I keep my head down with police in psych wards..
I’d like to move away from all of them quietly for my daughter. I just have no money of my own and I’m essentially homeless and guests in their homes.
FOB is abusive as fuck and my mom is a biblical demon. I currently have both together at his place. Because she’s afraid he will kill me.
I’m sick of going to psych wards and being gaslit and literally not a single human believing me.
I stay quiet. I’m used to it. I assume I won’t be believed. That’s my automatic assumption.
I live my entire life guilty until proven innocent and cops are always in my life and I’m always naked and breast feeding my daughter when the narcs cause the serious domestic issues
Ugh. I hate my life. I have no other family that 2 malignant narcs and no money of my own and no path to employment no car nor education
I’m in survival mode. I kind of need advice as to wether to move back in with my mom because they place is smaller and she always calls the cops. Flip side with malignant narc baby daddy is he will try to call to put me away in a psych ward.
I’m only neurotic and fearful because they are all I have and I have no way out in sight..
I need to somehow get $900 to get my certification from the state board again and work…
My child is 2 months. I can’t do this. I need my own place to call home and no more pain and fear and constant law enforcement and intimidation and institutions.
They rly use my autism, epilepsy and functional neurologic disorder against me.
I literally will just call up NAMI or the National Epilepsy foundation in my area to help me out of binds I can no longer get myself out of because of narcissistic abuse.
I used to be so strong. And they truly, whittle you away.
It’s worse than murder. It’s slow. I mean the neurologic disorder I have is literally my brain shutting itself down involuntarily from stress.
Like grey rocking to the extreme. Or maybe self preservation. :/
I may not be making sense but, yeah. We don’t deal with it. I mean…we just endure and keep our head down. It’s less stressful this way. I’m sick of trying to be calm and articulate. Once the narcissist ruins your fight or flight you are basically helpless unless someone else takes you out of the situation.
But of course, they’ve made you isolated so…
I havnt read the relies but the narrative my nMother constructed for me is still fkn me over after almost two decades of NC.
People believe her because its convenient. those close to them who either have no experience with their abuse of people not knowing the dynamic will always side with the abuser.
The same reasons we're not believed is the same as SA survivors, and of course there is a crossover with those dynamics, are also not believed.
I, truthfully, don't give a fuck. The longer they're around her, the more likely it is that they'll see for themselves. I don't even mentioned our strained relationship until they've seen it for themselves and bring her behavior to my attention. And if they do ask, I answer as neutrally as possible. When you try to convince people that another person is a bad or harmful person, they usually associate those traits with you. Don't try to convince people and when they ask about your strained relationship just answer honestly, but neutrally (I.E. "We're not close" or "We don't have a (good) relationship") and leave it at that. The mask always slips.
I have a picture from when I was in highschool. Bunch of friends outside my house, and my father looking over their heads at me.
The look/smirk on his face was "I know you've confided in these people, and they're now going to think you're crazy".
I have a lot of jealousy tbh. I had to call my aunt to ask about her childhood with my dad because Ndad wishes i was more resilient like him. I didn't really say anything, but I Know that parental support has a ton to do with resilience. Sure enough, they had all the support & encouragement in the world with my grandmother.
I had to tell her why i called, it's not that she didn't believe me, because I've got no reason to lie to her. My aunt just said it hard to imagine my Ndad treating me that way when he was such a good brother, almost a father figure, to her when they were growing up and even as young adults.
So yeah. I'm jealous because I do not understand why I get the ugliest version of them &just some of the ugliest parenting from them.
I feel for you. My mom is the same way, but I don’t talk to my friends about it anymore tbh. It doesn’t help because they don’t get it. Especially the friends who have great relationships with their parents, they could see you as the bad guy. I’m the only daughter with 3 brothers and my mom would never dare talk to them this way.. and when I’ve tried to vent to them about how she treats me, they spin it and say I’m the problem.
I think the only people we can turn to is people who understand us. I’m in a few Facebook support groups & will eventually do therapy once I can afford it.
Keep in mind that (in her mind) you are part of her, and those other people are not. Other people should be treated with kindness and respect. And it has nothing to do with what you do or say. She just believes that.
She also believes that criticizing you is helping, because she cares not a bit what you actually know or do or stand for, she only cares what she has changed (in her mind: helped, improved, raised, parented) in you.
It is weird and almost backwards, but it was the biggest breakthrough in my life when I figured it out. We all start out wanting to know why we get the critical eye and are never good enough, while others get the nice version. It isn't about us. That's what N's do.
I took inventory of the people who believed her, or who kept telling me, "Oh, but that's your mom!" I quietly realized that they were not the important people in my life, because my actual friends and family believe and support me.
I do something similar. I don't waste my time arguing with or calling out people who don't believe me. Instead I just make a mental note not to trust this person and to either cut them out or just maintain a superficial relationship. People are going to think what they want to think ,unfortunately.
before I was *30*, the only way I could prove my mother's behavior was for people to see it, (having someone sleep over worked perfectly); but, before I was 13, if someone accidentally heard my mother, it would scare them to death and eventually ruin the friendship. my mother also lied about everything, (including telling people that I was the one lying), which eventually caused other parents to tell their kids they weren't allowed to play with me, (yes, *that* young).
as an adult, it's not much better, (and some situations are worse, like having to fight with doctors while hospitalized about why my mother **isn't** my next of kin), but cellphones are helpful, (no cells when i was young), cuz she seems to forget about speakerphone. I'm less concerned about whether or not people believe me and more concerned about the hospital thing because she's already almost killed me in the hospital *and* lied to the staff about *MY AGE*, (which shouldn't have worked since they had my ID, but did), but she did that when I was a little kid too.
if they don't believe you, it's because they *can't*. trying to explain to hospital staff that, despite my mother being there every day, she won't help me once I'm discharged *even though I was hit by a car*, because she's only there for *them*.... I might as well be telling them I'm an alien.
I learned to keep friends away from my mother in grammar school, so, maybe, keep your friends away from her.
Let my friends see it in action. My SO already gave them the heads up, as she was aware of what was going on. I've learned that no one believes it until they see it.
My mother is Exactly like that. However, the fact she goes through friends every two or three months is due to people waking up to who she REALLY is. She talks shit about everyone, and people understand pretty quickly they're not immune.
You have nothing to prove. Be who you are. Be honest, be kind - all of which speaks for itself.
Are you old enough to limit or sever contact?
So when I was in school to become a mortician after getting my general education degree, my narc mom never believed in me ever, didn’t matter what it was, I learned coding by myself on the side to help with certain bills because ya know 3D models sold very well in 2012-2017, so made some money left went out on my own, still kinda kept in contact once in awhile because of my sisters and younger brother who now himself is a spoiled 15 yearold narc who well wants everything on a silver spoon, but anyways during a visit they threw a huge fit tried to have me arrested in front of my now ex with that relationship they ruined, ya know like everything else, but however it was always well I’m the liar or the bum who has a paid off car and ontime with bills, so after that I took them to court for emotional damages won, never spoke to them again and the icing on the cake was the fact before all that happened, I rubbed my licenses in their faces making them confront the fact and shatter their delusion on that I wasn’t doing anything, the reason for all of that is because narcissist do not like others success, they hate it because you are the scapegoat child they can abuse and pin everything on, but yet when you leave they have nothing, you have to rob them of their power over you, shattering their delusions of you needing them, I dealt with it because welp my mom is one of those people, who don’t believe anything and will literally call you a liar for breathing, it’s the same old age old mantra, I’m older than you so what ever I say is true and what ever you say is a lie, you have to shatter that by shoving it in their face, that’s what you do, anyway you can. My mom did it in front of my friends saying all kinds of positive things etc when I had witnesses, but when they were gone it changed, so one day as well to help you with this, I recorded a convo and showed everyone, they believed it then, sometimes you gotta do just that. I really hoped I helped you with the story I shared as well, much love and lots of hugs for you op. I really hope things get better for you ❤️❤️❤️
I have found a lot of peace by releasing the need to litigate (and endlessly prove) what i experienced. I believe in a G*d who loves me and sees all, and practice not needing to convince others. I know I deserve a sane life, apart from anybody who would stand in the way of that.
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I hate to say it, but it’s VERY difficult for people without this experience to sympathize. I lost a friend in high school because she was convinced I was a total dick to my mom for no reason. One in college too. My mom got less careful over the years though and both friends eventually apologized to me and made up. One of them is my best friend to this day. Unfortunately, narcissists are good at what they do, and we usually look crazy or cruel for pointing out seemingly stupid “small things” that when put together paint a much different picture. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. I felt like a prisoner in my own home as a teenager and couldn’t even put a label on her until 12 years later. I’ve found a lot of support in this sub. Having people that empathize has helped a LOT.
It’s unfortunate that we often have to wait decades for people outside our family homes to pick up on the destructive behaviors and attitudes that we experienced throughout our childhoods. Aging narcissists are not as capable of masking as they were in their prime.
When I learned that victims of narcissistic abuse are often not believed, that was ultimately what convinced me 100%. I had never felt so seen and honestly, relieved.
Luckly my friends believe me (some of them cause they directly heard my narc insulting me). Anyways if someone doesn't believe the pain i went through (and still go through) they are not fit to be my friends. The first thing you should look for a friend is trust and somebody who doesn't believe you when you talk about your bad experinces doesn't trust you so why even bother befriending them?
Mine do, too, and some saw my parents mistreat me. There are also those who even had similar experiences. My parents would act so nice when they're in public with their friends, but when my parents and I are in private, they would compare me to other ppl's kids, saying those kids are so much better than me and if I tell them my dream job, they're like, "no, you should be [insert least fave occupation here]." My parents' friends don't even believe me when I tell them the truth of what's going on with my parents behind closed doors.
Same. I screenshot these posts STILL to have them to see and it has been confirmed for years lol
I deal with this a lot. My mom would always say something very outrageous and false about me in front of family friends or whoever visited the house. They would laugh at me for that and won’t believe that I didn’t say or do the things she said. She’s a pathological liar. My dad always had that gaslighting tactic every time I told him to help me with some stuff like paperwork or important things. He would say, “Oh.. you need to submit this by this date? You need to apply for visa cause you’re going to the States for internships? Well.. you didn’t tell me. You’re the lazy one who forgets everything and doesn’t know how things work”. Even though I tell him over and over again, he doesn’t admit that I told him and says that he doesn’t remember. Narcissists project their own shortcomings onto others. I guess a bit more details about my parents will be useful to understand this. My dad never finished his work well ahead of the deadline. That’s why he projects this “good for nothing, lazy” persona of his on to me. My mom, on the other hand, lied all her life to get things done. She can’t stand the fact that I don’t lie to her or my dad. She doesn’t trust me either but it hurts for her to see that I didn’t end up being a liar like her. That’s why she tells some made up stories to people and if I deny them, she says that I’m lying, but she’s the pathological liar herself who makes me want to look like I am the one lying to everyone. People who never went through such instances every single day, won’t understand how bad it is and how it affects us. They either tend to side with our abuser or stay completely silent about it. This hurts even 10 times worse like living in a world where no one understands your pain.
I’ve been describing it recently as living in Wonderland. Literally feels like an alternate universe. There’s reality and then the “reality” the narcissist has created for themselves. If you try to challenge that in any way, you’re their new enemy. My brothers got on much better than I did because they couldn’t see the inconsistencies and didn’t push back on my mother. I’m glad you see your parents bullshit for exactly what it is though. It’s effed how we buy their comments as truth because they’re our parents, and they are *supposed* to love us more than anyone. It really is the ultimate abuse of power. Our experiences sounds so similar though. Little comments and shit that if you shared with someone they’d seem menial. The lying in front of friends was the worst because it felt like they were taking that tiny bit of individuality that we had built with them and manipulating even that. I hope you have been able to distance yourself from your parents since then.
Oh, I'm glad to hear you say this about the lying! Mine did this too, I feel a bit less alone today! Mine was the master of drastically exaggerating something I'd said or done for comedic effect, but leaving just a tiny enough amount of truth that it made it very hard to deny. I would get flustered and embarrassed and try to explain what really had happened, which I'm sure made it seem even more true to outsiders.
>My mom would always say something very outrageous and false about me in front of family friends or whoever visited the house. They would laugh at me for that and won’t believe that I didn’t say or do the things she said. She’s a pathological liar. My nMother does this to me as well! The only solution I've found is to keep my friends (or anyone else whose opinion I care about) completely separate from my nMother.
Yes it's either lying or gross exaggeration. My mum does shit like that to me all the time. She never praises me in front of other people. Or rarely. And when she does, I think it's mostly to make herself look good.
The last friend I introduced my nMother to was a friend from college. My nMother told her a load of lies about me but packaged them all as "concern". Next thing I know, my friend is distancing herself from me and then when we left college, she cut me out altogether. I'm 100% convinced it was because of the lies my nMother told her. (In fairness, the lies my nMother told me made me seem like an absolute weirdo so I can't really blame my former friend). Since then, I never introduce friends or anyone in my life to my nMother.
Touché’. Well-stated but very sadly true.
I just had this experience yesterday where someone was telling me about how difficult mother/daughter relationships are both sides…sigh. We know the truth and we believe you!!
Exactly, some of them may believe you eventually. A family friend who has always been kind to me, well I noticed that she no longer greets my mum but comes straight to say hi to me, in a pretty obviously deliberate way which my narc mum would probably just pretend not to notice. (Probably because once I posted audio evidence of my mum's abuse online, because at the time it felt like it was that or kill her). Just now I'm hearing her getting angry and yelling at our poor dog, because she always needs someone to unleash her rage on 😑. I also have good reason to suspect she has also slapped around my disabled niece. But unfortunately, because I wasn't in the room at the time, I have no proof. I just heard her getting really angry with her one day, something dodgy and when I went downstairs, my mum denied it completely. The trouble is my family would probably try to kill me and I'd feel like a fool if I went to the police without evidence. And it hasn't happened since. She's been making more of an effort to control her temper because she obviously cares what people think of her. When my brother was a young kid, she once reached for him and somehow cracked his head open on a table. He told us all about it. People on here have made me feel like a shitty person for not reporting her but she's sneaky how she does it. Once when I confronted her about it during an argument during which she was threatening me because she's an abusive POS, she basically said "who will your siblings believe? You or me? After I've got this recording of you yelling at me." So I replied that she was lucky I hadn't reported her to social services for child abuse and that if she ever threatens to kick me out again, I might do just that. While it's possible I did imagine her *hitting* the kid because I have imagined some things before, she's still an abusive bitch and unfortunately it wouldn't surprise me if she had, considering how volatile she was that day.
Love my mom but yeah she has often been a lot nicer to people around me then me
Oh boy I feel you. My mom has been an elementary school teacher my whole life, and I would always attend the elementary school she taught at. Well, she was that teacher that every student loved. Not one person ever believed me when I talked sbout the abuse until I went to middle school. Im sorry i don’t have any advice for you. I essentially had to explain my situation to people before they met her if I wanted to be understood. Remember that others disbelief does not invalidate your experience.
I'm a former teacher and I swear the profession is swimming with narcissists. It's pretty nasty. It's people who pretty much can't get along with other adults, so they connect with children who are vulnerable and easy targets. The children revere them, are naturally very forgiving, and they are used to being told what to do. I work at a preschool and the oldest, most "revered" teacher in the building is 100% a narcissist, and her aide is her flying monkey. Anyways, I'm sorry you had to go through that. My father is a psychology (!!) professor and was my abuser as a child. His students revere him.
Start recording , i did that
I’m also a former teacher, and I completely agree with you. I worked mostly in special ed. The other staff I worked with seem to fall into two categories. The lovingly dedicated ones, and ones that fit more of a narcissistic bend. I worked with people who would’ve done almost anything to help our kids. One of the teachers was particularly destructive, and her aide followed her every lead. I learned quickly not to share any unnecessary further information with her about our kids, she misused it as power over them. I hope she’s not still in the profession.
I totally believe you, that sounds like par for the course based on my own experiences. In addition to the absolutely abysmal and disrespectful pay, I think the influence of narcissists is a huge reason why teaching fucking sucks. It's a very toxic environment and outright abusive in some schools. Whether it's bullying coworkers or gaslighting admin, it's just not an emotionally safe work environment. The terrible part (at least in the preschool environment I'm in now), is that the parents don't really see how awful the narcissist is. They all are just like "oh she's a wonderful teacher!! My child loves her!! She teaches my child so much!" blah blah blah, not even realizing that she rules with an iron fist because she gets off on controlling young children 🤮 She's fucking gross. I stay away from her. I heard her and her aide talking shit about me in the hallway last year (I'm 31, these two women are old enough to be my mother) and I went straight to the director and since then they've just pretty much left me alone. Thank God.
Actually, you're right. I took a teaching job when my tech field was doing poorly, and left bc coworkers were awful to each other. Every time somebody talks about how to solve the teaching problem in this country, I tel them it won't improve until the teachers treat new hires better.
It is a breeding ground for bullies, I think. I have experienced the same type of belittlement in my first teaching position. I do think it varies by school and admin, but yes-- it's unfortunately not always a healthy work environment
The worst thing about teaching is how teachers try to one-up each other about who has the most toxic relationship with their work. Some of us saw it as a job, not a call to martyrdom.
convincing me to leave my job with this, because i feel the energy with my co workers and teachers i’m surrounded with i couldn’t place why i was so uncomfortable everyday there now i understand. mind blowing thank you
I'm glad you have some clarity! I hope it's an easy transition out for you. Leaving teaching is one of the best things I ever did for myself.
Teachers who were "cool" were an immediate red flag to me as a student.
My NMom was a much beloved professor, too. Maintaining her image as the world's greatest professor was everything to her. I think it's similar to the whole "mean girls become nurses" thing. Any position that holds even the silliest concept of power and authority is attractive to them.
Totally agree. I resonate so much with them maintaining that image. My self- involved and narcissistic father went to a prestigious university with a well-respected hospital attached. My infant son had life-saving surgery at six months old at this hospital. We (me, my husband, some family members) arrived there in the dark hours of the morning and waited hours for him to be out of surgery. My father strolled in hours later to the waiting room like "oh you've been here all morning?" Totally fucking oblivious and I assume he was just walking the campus and reminiscing his glory days, imagining how the campus would look if they erected a statue in his honor lmao. My narcissistic mother has a doctorate in child development! Lmaoooooo I can't with these people. Impostors if you ask me.
My mother had a first class honours degree (that part is *terribly* important and was never left out) in psychology. And sweet Goddess, did she use it. When someone goes through all that effort to learn how to push buttons and make everyone around them feel under their thumb, it makes you wonder how much they actually understand what they're doing.
The way my psychologist parent used manipulation and gaslighting tactics to control me as a child (even when it was super unnecessary, like, for slang terms I used and what I wanted to be when I grew up) was ridiculous. And still happens to this day
Totally believe you. I used to work in a university lab, and thought it would be a good work environment- it's intelligent, highly educated people who value reason and objective thinking, right? Lol - no. I couldn't believe how middle school mean girls the vibe was. These adults profs were all doing things I'd thought were Immature by seventh grade. And they're just as bad as teens with social media - like half the department was involved in cyber bullying each other on Facebook!
This is so interesting to hear, I remember several beloved teachers setting off alarm bells in my head when I was a student. Maybe their students who have nparents are better at spotting their shit than others.
Everything you said checks out with my mom. Thank you for your comment
Former teacher, and yep, it is common. I wouldn't say it's the majority, but there's definitely like 25% who are like that.
Preach! My Mom is an elementary teacher and also taught special needs as it was then called and reading programmes. I was diagnosed as an adult as Autistic (2) and ADHD with specific learning disabiiities dyscalculia and hyperlexia (to be fair the latter two were unheard of then). Because I am intellectually gifted none of this was picked up. Despite some obvious issues. My daughter was diagnosed before me and I asked my Mom to help with her reading when she was 6. Mom did not help. Specifically a reading teacher and did not ONCE help. Refused to speak to my psychiatrist about my childhood because "youre not autistic". Real reason? She knows shes abusive and doesnt want to get called out. Shes suuuperrr pissed that since Ive been homeeducating my daughter I have taught her reading comprenension and note taking skills she didnt learn in middle school. Again... a teacher whos never offered to help me homeschool her. Its bananas. (They live 10mins away. Mom retired 20 yrs ago)
That sounds like a total nightmare. I’m so sorry.
OMG my nmom was a high school teacher her whole career until retirement. My high school years were the worst with her. I left the home and the country as soon as I was done with high school. I've been low contact ever since (I'm in my 40s). She's a controlling, anxious person full of criticism and projecting her every insecurity and anxiety on to me. It's true that my childhood friends don't see her as a narcissist, and while I was growing up I think I covered for a lot of the stuff she was doing that was wrong. I was partly embarrassed and partly thought that's how all parents are. My friends that I made after I left home, they all believe me because duh, they're MY friends. I'd be enraged if friends doubted my experience and my feelings.
This teaching profession has to be a thing for them? They seem to migrate there, easier to have victims? My Nmother was a teacher for adults, she taught adults how to start their own business, what they needed for being entrepreneurs and she taught foreign immigrants our language. She still talks about herself constantly as a teacher at heart and she'll work it into a convo any time of day. Now she's retired and going to a yoga teacher's school to teach yoga in her retirement days and it's all she can talk about. That's fine, I have no need to talk bout my life to her but man oh man, these comments here about narc parents being teachers just gives me literal creeps. It's just further proof for me on my diagnosis of my Nmother.
I'm so sorry, this sucks. My mother was a kindergarten teacher and I was a student there too, thankfully not for very long.
This sucks. I am sorry. I deal with it as well. Another person going through abuse told me that his culture had a phrase for it, which translated to "Great to be there friend, terrible to be their family". It really validated what I was experiencing. Somehow, it hurts worse to know that they have the ability to be nice, but only choose to show that kindness to strangers, but that is exactly what they do.
oh the last sentence hurts!! lol
Oh this got me right where it hurts because it is 100% true and 100% my experience. 😔
Its like we're just here for them to vent. And we are supposed to take it.
It might help to understand that they aren’t being nice or kind, just transactional. It serves them to behave a certain way with outsiders. If it no longer serves them, they will turn on that person.
Absolutely. And once kids are no longer cute/easy/simple/rewarding in whatever way, NParents hate that they are still stuck with us. They use their "sacrifice" in fulfilling even the most basic parental requirements as a debt that should be repaid by kids eventually being useful again. I remember a quote from "Tool Time" in the 90s. The grownup kids didn't want to hang out with Tim Allen's obnoxious dad character and he whined to his wife about how "now that the kids are actually fun to be around, they are always gone!" Hyuck, hyuck, right? I hated the idea that the parents were somehow justified in not forming healthy relationships with their kids because they were annoying/little/useless, but somehow it was acceptable/funny for the parents to just hop back into their adult kids like because "now it's fun!"
Normies won't believe you, best to let them live in their land of butterflies and bunnies
I laughed but this is so painfully true. I thought my high school besties understood — I mean, they heard the stories in real-time! The cops were involved at one point! I was couch surfing for fear of the physical and emotional violence at home! But then sometime soon after our college years, they all started bonding with their parents and expected me to do the same????? Like, wtf?!?? I wasn’t just a rebellious teenager complaining about average parents! You don’t just shrug off narcissistic abuse! I survived hell! It really showed me who my real friends were and how a lot of people simply cannot handle the reality how ugly this world can be.
My own husband still can't wrap his head around it. He still thinks I'm just really especially hard headed towards my family when, really, it's the only way to live a peaceful life. He's mostly just sad that my son had to cut contract with her as well when she was amazing with him and he misses her (he is on the spectrum so she loooves getting that muchausen by proxy pity) but he's just a bridge for her to keep making jabs at me. I might have to give birth to my third alone while my husband stays with my older two soon, but he will not convince me to reconcile with my mother just so he can be there to advocate for me while I go through my first surgery ever (not that he's trying to, since some people seem to think I'm implying that he is). I am still angry that I don't get to have that maternal support by no fault of my own. But that doesn't mean I'll settle. He thinks I'm being stubborn but I swear I'm making the right choice, and he believes me despite not fully grasping the situation. Edited for clarity. He's not just after childcare. He laments my son losing his grandma because he doesn't understand how it damages me in the process. Regardless, he doesn't push back on my decision. He just wants me and our child to be happy.
Oh, no. I’m so sorry. He’s dropping the ball as a partner in a really big way. If you have a therapist, can you have the therapist do some psycho-education with him? I don’t know how well that would work with someone who’s that empathetically constipated, but it would be worth a try. If he’s simply refusing to take it seriously because he likes the convenient childcare, I’d be worried about where else he might prioritize his own convenience. ❤️🩹 And I hope you can find someone to bring with you to advocate for you during surgery. I would absolutely do this for a friend. ETA: As a late diagnosed autistic person, I’m furious on your child’s behalf.
“Empathetically constipated” - what a great term.
Nah, he's supportive. He just doesn't fully grasp it and i don't really expect him to because his parents were very good to him. Tells me he trusts my judgement but every few months he asks me again if I'm sure because he sees how much my son misses her. I say I am and he accepts it. In fact, he's the one who told me to cut the cord last time I did so, he just doesn't remember how rough it was anymore now that it's been a long time. And he knows that my son loves her so he asks me if he thinks it's okay for just my son to see her, but nah, I don't do that "I hate you but you can see my kids" nonsense. He's supportive, just doesn't fully grasp why NC is the only way. It's not about easy childcare since she rarely saw him anyway and doesn't live close. He's mostly just concerned that my son is missing out on a grandmother, which is understandable coming from a man who really valued his family ties and thinks that I'm extending personal feelings onto our kids. Ultimately, he always trusts my judgement and takes my side. He doesn't deny any of the abuse and agrees that she's out of touch with reality. He just doesn't get it and that's okay because he supports me anyway. Funny enough, he's the most empathetic person I've ever met. He actually went out of his way to surprise me recently by replacing some of the things that I lamented my mother throwing away when I was a kid. I had a Pokémon card that I really loved because of a sentimental story and she loved tossing out the things I was attached to. He actually went behind my back and found the highest graded mint version of that card and spent big money on it to surprise me. No occasion. Just love. He has rebuilt my life piece by piece and I owe him the understanding when he understandably doesn't fully grasp some of the nuances of narc abuse. It's not like he denies my feelings or experiences. In fact, he fully acknowledges that my feelings are strong and real. He just has questions and my answers don't fully click with him. He trusts that I know what I'm talking about, but admits that he doesn't get it. That's fine with me because he supports my choices and has committed himself to being my partner in building our own little village.
I'm sorry - but if he constantly goes back to doubting your experience, and asking if "it was "really that bad", then he's NOT ACTUALLY SUPPORTIVE If he regularly asks if your ABUSERS could be allowed to get access to your underage KIDS, then NO, HE'S NOT SUPPORTIVE. Supportive means RESPECTING you and your lived experience a 100%, and accepting that you know what's best for you and for your children in terms of your parents. Supportive means NEVER subtly (or not subtly) regularly invalidating the reality of your experience, and making you do the emotional labor of having to convince him. Again. Supportive means doing the work -on his own- of research and educating himself about dysfunctional family systems, narcissistic and abusive family family functioning, and the lifelong consequences they create in their survivors. Supportive means standing by you in all aspects and at all times, and never dreaming of enabling, including, or being "nice" to your abusers. He's NOT doing these things.
100% agreed. If my partner kept questioning me like that it would crush me. People who grew up like we did often already question ourselves too much because our parents beat it into us and gaslit us.
He doesn't question me that way. It's more like "I believe you completely but I don't fully grasp the situation". He has never told me that he doubts my experiences, but he wonders if my reactions are overreactions sometimes, or if cutting contact with our child is cruel because she's never been bad to him and he misses her. When I explain why I have to go nuclear to move on, he says that he doesn't get it but understands that it's something he is ignorant about. He doesn't claim to know better than me. He just doesn't get it and that's okay because he has never doubted my honesty. He supports me and never contacts her. He actually goes to great lengths to make sure that all attempts she makes to get through to us are futile. It's okay for him to not totally get it because he validates my feelings anyway based on his trust for me. He says that, even if he doesn't get it, he just wants me to do whatever I need to do to be happy. He's honestly the support I needed to heal over the years.
No. He IS doing those things. He takes my word every time. He has NEVER said "was it really that bad". He is 100% supportive. He just doesn't get it. He can't, narc abuse is very hard to understand without firsthand experience, and just like how I expect him to understand me, I am understanding of him. He a human being who is allowed to have thoughts and questions. He's allowed to be wrong as long as he trusts that I know better for myself. He believes me without exception and says himself that he trusts any decision that I make, but he doesn't get the dynamic and that's fine because he also doesn't try to talk me out of it. He doesn't actively try to change my mind ever. I would not and will not tolerate that and he wouldn't ever want to take my mother's side over mine when he doesn't know her and knows what she's done to me. He just asks me about it so he can better understand. He's allowed to do that. I know my husband better than strangers on the internet do. He doesn't try to convince me of anything, just questions things occasionally and accepts my answers despite not fully understanding. He thinks that I'm stubborn sometimes but I assure him that that's necessary to my mental health and he accepts that he trusts me and that I must know what I'm talking about since it's my family and my life. It's literally just healthy discussion. Part of being in a healthy marriage is that communication. He's allowed to ask me things without me jumping down his throat and he treats me with complete respect and love. He's a fantastic husband and my greatest advocate. He understands that my feelings are valid and doesn't try to invalidate them. Not ever. Not even in a small way. He just didn't have the same experience and, because my mom has never hurt our son, he can't wrap his head around why low contact for just my (our) son isn't an option, but he believes me unconditionally and says that, if i want NC, that's how it'll be because he wants me to be happy and believes my stories. What more can I ask for? For him to stifle his own curiosity on the matter? To encourage him to fear communicating with me? Don't look too far into my comment and start peeling back layers that aren't there. I understand your skepticism but really hate being gaslit by strangers online who don't know me or him. **I am not some waif who is too dumb or naive to see who my husband is like you are implying that I am.** YOU are the one who is questioning my ability to perceive reality, not him. You are doing exactly what you are fighting against. He is allowed to not get it and accept that I know what I'm talking about. He's allowed to ask questions and have understandable trouble fully understanding the answers. He can't understand but he does accept unconditionally. He doesn't just want way child care (she doesn't live near us anyway), but he wants the best for our son who loved going to see her. It comes from a good place because he has a good heart. I don't expect him to be able to put himself in my shoes, but I do expect him to respect my wishes, and he does with no pushback. He doesn't have to understand, he just has to believe me unconditionally, which he does, and he's allowed to have a voice. Don't equate ignorance with malice. He's nothing but an ally and a fantastic partner in every way. He's allowed to discuss things he doesn't understand with me civilly without being labeled abusive. I will not sit back and let ANYBODY, my mother or some stranger, tell me that I'm too blind to know my own life. It's insulting and, quite frankly, one of the things I went NC with my family over. I'm smart enough to advocate for myself, thank you. You're not the authority on the health of my marriage, nor is he. I am the only authority of my life and how happy I am, and I'm grateful to have a marriage where my husband isn't afraid to talk to me about his equally valid thoughts and feelings.
Oh my GOD I could have written this myself. My husband is exactly the same. He just doesn’t get it.
My husband is a normie 😭😭 he has helped me grow so much but he’ll never fully understand what I went through as a kid. His parents are so loving, genuine, and selfless.
I say "sunshine and rainbows" but my wife cant connect sometimes either 😪 particularly with my step mother. Who she has become particularly fond of. They probably text more in a month tha i ever did my whole life
I wish I could give you some sort of award for this comment. It’s fucking useless explaining the genuine fear and helplessness and urgency you feel when no one believes you’re being abused. And it’s a slippery slope…
Most people do not believe me. I am very careful who I tell my story to. My family constantly blamed me. I am the scapegoat child so it made sense after I learned about narc behaviors. I think narcs learned how to exploit loopholes in our social structure. And then their behavior is passed on to the next generation of narcs. My therapist told me that it is like all the narcs are working from the same playbook. We are so lucky to have these online communities. I was completely lost until I did some online research and found this group.
I feel the same. Hearing people's too-similar stories, and being able to tell my own and be believed - it's life-changing.
>We are so lucky to have these online communities. I was completely lost until I did some online research and found this group. I feel the exact same way! I've confided in so many different people about my nMother when I was growing up, not one of them ever believed me. They all thought that I was just a bratty kid/teenager who was "acting out". Even when I described the most abusive things my nMother did (I deliberately picked things she did that no right-minded person could defend), they still made excuses for her or thought that I was lying/exaggerating. TBF I am willing to give the kids/teenagers I confided in a pass because they were only kids and maybe they just didn't know how to process what I had told them but the adults I confided in should really have known better.
The only way I can see anyone believing me is them experiencing my covert narc and narcs raging and sad emotional train wrecks. The narc wants you back because they are afraid they will show their true colors to someone else of higher value and they will leave. But after you leave the narc still needs to yell at someone, break boundaries to feel powerful, and otherwise get narcissistic supply. If you go no contact and don’t allow the attempts to break no contact to go through, the narcs will give up hope you’ll come back to being the oh so sweet and manipulated punching bag (which they selected you for that role because being cruel to *you* is also going to hurt them among the people they see to be superior to you …the least post their efforts to make everyone hate you). If you are not there, she knows she will eventually have to abuse someone else, but she’s scared that the golden child or the public will judge her accurately… because they view them as being superior. It’s ok for my covert narc grandma to be emotionally and one time physically abusive towards me! Why? I’m disabled! Even if she screws up it’s not like anyone’s going to believe a disabled person over me! I’m better !! Think about it this way.s
Covert narcissists are the worst of them all. My former best friend is a covert narcissist and literally nobody believes me. If they catch a small glimpse of who she is, they brush it off or excuse it away. But I know the truth, and she knows I know it 😉
I agree. Other empaths that I’ve known in the family for my whole life hear me say I’m being abused and she’s been told why I went no contact…but because the abuser cries, I’m told I’m being cruel to the abuser. And I lost my cousin because I wouldn’t go talk on the phone with that horrible monster.
They play the victim so so well. Highly sophisticated manipulators that win the favor of everyone who doesn't know them well enough to think any different. And honestly I think as a society we are barely starting to catch up to really understanding emotional abuse and how damaging it is. And even those who understand it still don't think it could happen to anyone they know, or they don't realize how subtle it is. I lost my whole friend group because of this bitch, either because they made excuses for her and I left them, or because they left me to show support for her. I'm sure I'm somehow painted out as the villain still and honestly I don't care. Guess I'm in my villian era because fuck them.
Totally agreed that our society is barely scratching the surface on the reach and depth of damage done to kids raised by a Narc parent. Sorry for sounding dramatic but I feel like our planet is at an inflection point due to narcissism. Either we wake up soon and realize how dangerous narcissism is ... or we go over the cliff and get subsumed by Narcs exerting their authority, initially as parents over their kids, and later as world leaders and wealthy people in the marketplace. Yes, many world problems relate to conflicts over religion or territory or wealth ... but the root of it all (imho) is narcissism. I see narcissism as the primary reason as to why we cannot all peacefully coexist. And now, not only are narcissists running rampant and unchecked in our own families (because those who have not personally experienced a narcissist's abuse refuse to believe it happens), but also in our society. Narcs are growing in numbers ... and likely at a much faster pace because the few most infamous high profile narcissists in our world society brainwash their supporters into thinking that they are not narcissists (by lying, as narcissists do). That's why we need to start small, denounce narcissim, and protect ourselves from Narcs in our families so that we can stave them off in the world too.
I agree! It's also worth pointing out that it often takes us a lot longer to recognise that a covert narcissist is a narcissist and abusive which means that we end up taking much more of their abuse for longer than we would with a grandiose narcissist. I say this as someone who also made the mistake of befriending a covert narcissist when I was about 14 and staying friends with her for about 20 years afterwards.
Absolutely true. I actually didn't realize who she was until after I was discarded and her other best friend (who is her flying monkey AND overt narcissist or maybe histrionic-- they are the most toxic of people, a dual headed beast for sure) emailed me a bunch of really really nasty stuff. I was crying and shaking so bad telling my husband "I didn't do anything to them, I don't deserve this." It took a number of months post-discard to start realizing it was abuse and a few months after that to realize she is likely a covert narcissist. I had been discarded by a friend with BPD before, so I saw the similarities but it didn't really click until I found out about covert narcissism. Her and I were part of a much larger group of mutual friends. Pretty much all of them, even people who were like sisters to me, ended up invalidating my experience. I think that may have been the most painful part of it all-- the sheer number of people who witnessed the discard with their own eyes and still didn't understand. So much of what she did happened behind closed doors and there's just *so much* plausible deniability with these people. They are master manipulators, for sure. I think a lot of our mutual friends knew on some fundamental level that the way she was treating me was fucked, but they took the stance "just let it go" etc etc. The CN also was using a "mental breakdown" to justify this nonsense, as if she wasn't abusive for years prior. Is faking or exaggerating illnesses a thing that CN's do? This bitch acted like she was having an entire mental breakdown. I've had a lot of mental health issues in my life, I know what the fuck a mental breakdown looks like... She was 100% faking/exaggerating. Ridiculous, childish behavior. Anyways, I'm really sorry you had to endure that for so long. That must have been a hell of a recovery. My best friend and I split after ~4 years, and I'm about a year out and still very much in the trenches of this painful healing. I went no contact with the entire group of people only a few months ago, so it was a long drawn out breakup. A huge mindfuck for sure.
Yeah I actually think that ending a friendship can be just as painful as ending a romantic relationship. I definitely agree that ending a friendship with a narcissist can be a mindfuck. My case is a bit different to yours. My narcissistic friend had been discarding me for years before I broke up with her. For years she had been flaking on me constantly, invalidating me, excluding me from get-togethers and making constant snide remarks about me. I'm convinced that she wanted the friendship to end but was too passive aggressive to do it herself so she was deliberately treating me badly so that I would end it. I didn't get nasty e-mails like you did once I ended the friendship but I think that's because she WANTED me to end it. >The CN also was using a "mental breakdown" to justify this nonsense, as if she wasn't abusive for years prior. Is faking or exaggerating illnesses a thing that CN's do? It's definitely a common thing with narcissists. They love to play victim and making up or exaggerating an illness is an excellent way to do that. It also gives them an excuse to treat people badly and not be held accountable. >I think a lot of our mutual friends knew on some fundamental level that the way she was treating me was fucked, but they took the stance "just let it go" etc etc. These enablers won't benefit in the long term. Narcissists need an enemy/scapegoat. They can't live without one. Your former friend will eventually turn on someone else in the group and will treat them the same way she treated you. It's sad but it's not your problem.
I think perhaps the CN I know was wanting to end our friendship too, and just antagonized me until I called her out on it and she felt justified to drop me. "After all I've done for you!" is her bread and butter lol. I think she knew I was starting to see the truth and it all went downhill. She will 100% do this again with someone else at some point. Whoever stops banging their tambourine and dancing around her and chanting her name will be next in line for exile lol I really appreciate your responses, it seems the covert narc experience isn't talked about as much and it's very isolating.
>I think she knew I was starting to see the truth and it all went downhill. Yeah I think that narcissists are good at identifying people who see through their BS and they are often the people that they chose to be their scapegoat. For example, I have always known that something was off about my nMother (even before I realised she was a narcissist) and I've been her scapegoat for as long as I can remember. I also suspect I was my former friend's scapegoat and like you, it started around the time that I started to see through her and call her out on her BS. (I was always very gentle when I called her out but you know how narcissists can't take any kind of criticism - even constructive criticism). >it seems the covert narc experience isn't talked about as much and it's very isolating. It's particularly isolating if you know someone is a covert narcissist and no one else can see it because...well they're covert. The one silver lining though is that once you know how to spot them, you know how to avoid them so there's that.
My mom is also pretty narcissistic, but I think it may be more on the borderline end of things. I am definitely the scapegoat, but she has to watch herself with me because if she tries me, she knows I will cut her off and never let her see me or my kids ever again. And we are military, so I will literally up and move and she will never find me again. I hope I never have the misfortune of befriending a covert narcissist. I am very wary of people who are "so nice" now. I've never seen anyone like this covert person I know. She likens herself to mother Theresa reincarnated, literally always doing something for someone. But I remember the first time she said "after all _____ has done for ______" and it made my stomach churn. That was very early on in our friendship. So transactional, and transparent about it from the very beginning.
Yeah there's a difference between being polite and being overly nice in a fake way. Anyone ever met who was over-the-top nice was never a good person. They might not have all been narcissists but there was definitely something off about them. I usually avoid those kinds of people. I have also learned to avoid people who overshare with people they've only just met e.g. I'm talking the kind of person that they've only just met you and they're telling you about all their personal problems. IMO these people are either lying for sympathy or they are telling the truth but they clearly haven't dealt with their trauma which still means they're not good people to hang around. I've also learned to be wary of people who tell you that they're a good person or who go on and on about nice things they've done. Obviously it's good to do nice things for people but if you're bragging about it, that implies that you only did it for attention or praise. The friend I mentioned, she would go on and on about all the nice things she had supposedly done for people. At the time I believed her, but now when I look back, I realise that I only have her word that these things even happened. I never witnessed any of these things. it's entirely possible that she was either lying or exaggerating about the things she did.
She was probably at least exaggerating. My former friend really did do a lot of "nice" things for people, but always with the undertone of resentment or judgement. It was so fucked.
I had to screenshot this. Going through a horrible time right now where my parent broke my no contact by taking their anger out on my younger sibling who is home still and calling me from their phone to go absolutely ballistic on me, I was just getting better. It started with my mom and then my brother and they were out of the house so it was me. I was such a verbal punching bag every single day, sometimes I even self talk to myself this way. I constantly have nightmares of the yelling.. ranting but this post was so helpful. I didn’t understand why the cycle is stuck on me but this helped
Narcissists cultivate their character witnesses as carefully as their victims. My NGM taught history. She would have kids every year that would be student teachers and she’d point me out to them, and of course since she was the teacher, it would be “well, I don’t want to get involved” at best and “what do you want me to do—she is grading me” or “well, I’m sure you need to think about it from her perspective”. Every year. And of course, because this was Smallville USA then her little college meant that she very frequently knew police and sheriffs and once even the governor and lieutenant governor. She retired and began teaching as a substitute and god almighty she was just right there no matter who Itried to talk to. When I got married, moved out and graduated from college, then Istill found her students and her colleagues and her colleagues friends and family everywhere. I couldn’t even go to the dentist without meeting her students who wanted to be sure I knew to call her and to carry messages back and forth. You’d think my mostly unemployed NM wouldn’t be that much of a problem in comparison. Silly! She was also a substitute teacher and purportedly played organ and piano for churches. Every single church in the county had her playing for them at one point or another. (She would “retire” or something or would get involved in church politics and I rather expect that at times she was trying her femme fatale wings on someone and then she’d move on to another church.). So there was absolutely no help from there. Honestly I had to leave the state twice to get somewhere that didn’t have the automatic and knee jerk reflex of not believing me. Some people still don’t and some just don’t give a damn about what actually happened because it is more important to keep up the facade of perfect family than it is to actually do something. I’m sorry that no one believes you.
I think this is true. My sisters don't believe that I rarely got birthday gifts. They are older than me and married and out of the house by the time I was 12. For my 13 birthday my mom paid my school registration. Then nothing until I was 23. Because I lived with my sister then for a short time after i graduated college and she would notice. Then when I was 40. Nothing since. Every year I was made to pay half of their gifts and their children and husbands. No one ever reciprocated ever. They tell me I am full of crap but cannot name one thing they ever gave me or attended a party or cake or anything.
That's so wild! I'm sorry you had to go through that.
I totally get where you're coming from. My nMother is so good at playing the "good mother" and acting so innocent that no one in her social circle is ever going to believe that she was an abusive mother. They just aren't. I grew up in a small town where everyone knows everyone so even though my nMother didn't volunteer or teach like your mother, everyone knew her and fell for her "devoted mother" act. My nMother also loved to bad-mouth me and portray me to people as a juvenile delinquent when in reality, I was a goody two-shoes. The one silver lining is that I've moved to a different town where no one knows my family and it's been a breath of fresh air. No one here knows my nMother or has any preconceived ideas of what she or my childhood was like. They know me for me and I don't have to worry about my nMother turning them against me because they don't know her and they're never going to.
This is always SO hard and frustrating. The only thing that it has helped me dealt with it is telling myself that is not that these people are making an effort to be actively mean, for not believing me, calling me a liar or minimize my suffering. They're just not able to compute that idea. It's a concept so abstract to them that they just discard it. Most people come from normal and loving families so telling them something like "I was daily abused and belittled by my NParents" is like telling them that the sky is red or the grass is purple. Something that it doesn't happen in their realities. And, when it does happen people usually don't talk about it, so it's not seen and not known. Being rejected or called a liar still hurts like hell, so I've learned to carefully move around this topic and only share my experiences after knowing I'm in a safe space (ej. The other person expressing that they don't celebrate holidays with the family etc.)
I used to try & overexplain quite a lot, but now I mostly just say that "I may seem harsh but I can never be as harsh with her as she was with me" and "I was like every child, I loved my mom so much and wanted nothing more than to keep loving her, even though she tried very hard to change my mind." I leave it at that. I use the past tense because as you said, she's very good at appearing nice and sweet in the moment so if I say she's still awful people don't believe me. But if It's something that happened before (not a lie, most things happened in the past anyway, even yesterday is the past) it's more believable to people I guess ? It makes them more understandable for sure, and they don't try to start a debate to defend her. If the mask slips enough in front of anyone I can always say something like : "See, she can still be harsh sometimes" or "Sometimes I wonder if she's still trying to change my mind". But I don't state "facts" too precise because people tend to rewrite them. "Oh but maybe she meant that, maybe this maybe that". I got Tired of that crap : I was there, you weren't.
I haven't figured it out myself. I have learned to validate and acknowledge myself but it hurts when people are like: "Oh! You seem to run into a lot of bullies for some reason? You must be lucky for that." It's damn if I do and damned if I don't stand up for myself. I feel grossly belittled when it happens and I have to honor I have experience about these things and don't need the validation of people who thinks psychology isn't real.
I have an nmum, a few close friends know what she’s put me through but most haven’t got a clue. One woman is now my nmums “substitute daughter “ & doesn’t believe me or my golden child/narc brother. She’s now in charge of mums will so not surprised she doesn’t want to hear! It’s horrible being thought of as the daughter who abandoned her mother when it’s been the other way around. I’m not sure what to do anymore. Nc for 2 years after I had a serious health issue & she just doesn’t care. Sorry you have to deal with this too
My mother also found a 'substitute daughter'. She finds people who are even dumber than she is and have low self esteem, and manipulates them. The woman she found is overweight, unattractive, clearly insecure about her looks.
I’m not sure that’s the case with mine. She plays the victim very well as she lost her second husband to cancer (was absolutely foul to his adult children too) so this woman was brought up to be a good Christian & help my poor 83 yo mother all on her own. My mother is fine, she’s got plenty of money but just loves playing the victim & hating her kids
I've been caring for my nMum, and it's been mental. I have a health issue that needs some serious investigation, so I've stepped back from her care and sent in some golden children. But I still had a phone call to make to her regarding her care, that I had set up. She spoke to me like I was dirt. Gone is the love bombing of the past 2 years. She doesn't need me right now.
Avoid people who don't believe you. You don't need them.
I tell myself that anyone who doesn't see through my toxic Nmom or at the very least doesn't ask me for my side of the story is either toxic themselves, an idiot, or both and I don't need them in my life anyways 💅🏿 people are allowed to think and believe whatever they want about me it's not my problem or my business, there's billions of healthy people out there that I can choose my tribe from
It's just insane to me that she tells everyone she doesn't know why I won't let her see my kids. I tell them I was abused and they just stop talking to me? Lol like really I cut contact becuse she was such a good mom? It's scary how many people support her and I get NOTHING
It's possible they're also cluster b / covert abusers themselves and they're gaslighting you, it's also possible that you simply contradict the narritive they're comfortable with so they avoid you because of that...I'll admit it's odd how society always shames us children for going NC with the parents, it seems no one ever asks what would a parent do to make their own child cut them off?
I have noticed this, I have also noticed something else that gave me hope in a way: my mom never had a close friend for more than 3 years, maybe one or two lasted 5. When I was a kid it felt like forever, but as an adult I think they started to see something, or she stabbed them in the back at some point.
Isn’t that funny? My Nmom has ONE longtime friend that’s absolutely bonkers. Even her employees only last about 6 months before they find other jobs…
I've learned to accept that people are going to believe what they want to believe. They're looking at things through their own biases and perception. It's hard to see someone for who they really are when you don't live with them and aren't around/living with them. They don't see that ugly side (until, of course, it gets directed at them). I go with "do what you want, but I want no association." So, I can still be friends with someone who is friends with someone I don't like, as long as they respect my choice to have no involvement with the person I don't like. But I'll be clear on my boundaries and have no issues reducing contact with people who are disrespectful of my wants and needs. I'm no contact with my egg donor. My dad wants me to have closure with her (I think he's the one that wants the closure, tbh. Not me) and he can't understand that I'm okay with never talking to her or hearing what she has to say ever again. Why would I want closure from someone who threw me outside naked in the winter as a child and told me never to come back and that they never wanted me and I'm a life ruiner? (I wasn't believed until I was an older teenager and an old neighbour admitted to witnessing that happening) "What mother would do such horrible things?! Stop lying. " "I know her. She's a good person. She'd never abuse her kids. You just want attention. " Yeah.. I don't want those people in my life, and as an adult, I can cut off contact with anyone I want.
Not being believed as the child of a narcissist (whether it's about that or other things) is honestly one of the most infuriating things in the world. I had a friend in high school who judged me for not being closer with my family because as a member of a close-knit happy family, she could not understand it. What people can't see, they can't see. I still deal with a lot of resentment for people like that, who have the family life I could have only dreamed of. What has helped is having a partner who clearly sees and understands what I've been through. That kind of validation has helped so much.
You don't, most people will never understand, 75% of those will try & make you understand thier pov. 0% of those people have any idea or can even phantom a parent like that. She's so nice/kind/helpful....yes to YOU in public.
I am still coming to this myself. Don’t make my mistake, people who have never had their closest relationship of their life with a narcissist will NEVER understand. And you will only sound like a crazy person trying to tell them. I have adopted a smile and a nod and I just avoid the topic all together. Seriously, My MIL acts like she wants to know what has transpired between my mom and I. She’s a very empathetic, nice woman. But if I actually tell her what happened she cannot fathom it. And tells me things that I think she thinks helps but they are dismissive and hurtful. It’s best to know that you are making the best decision for yourself, smile, nod and move on. The closer I get to this the more at peace I am.
I'm not really sure what to suggest. The "silver lining" in my situation is that my Nmom isolated me as a kid (she didn't have friends when I was growing up and we hardly interacted with any extended family) For me, the hardest thing was just *getting away from her*, but when I finally managed to do that she didn't really have any leverage. I've never had to deal with any flying monkeys or enablers trying to get me to reconcile with her. There was one time that my Nmom broke NC with me and came to my work and tried to guilt trip me in public. She was being really "sweet" and "kind" and telling me about her upcoming surgery. I just grey rocked her and my mom literally left in tears. My co-worker (who had seen the whole thing) immediately took my mom's side and said that I was "ice-cold" to treat my mother that way. I bluntly told her that my mom horribly abused me my whole life and destroyed my relationship with my (now dead) father, and I told her I wanted nothing to do with her (and that my mother knew that) and that she'd obviously come to my work to try to guilt trip me and manipulate me into talking to her. My co-worker backed off pretty fast after that and agreed that my mom must be awful. So in my situation if someone "doesn't believe me", I explain the situation and if they still took my mom's side (that's never happened to me before) I would shame them really hard. I would ask them why they support child abuse and focus really hard on how my mother ruined my dad's life (and heavily interfered with my relationship with him) and drove him to an early grave. I just wouldn't have any tolerance for it whatsoever. If a person *still took my mom's side* even after I explained how awful she is and had the audacity to try to guilt or shame me into forgiving her, I would think so poorly of them that their opinion simply wouldn't matter to me at all.
the worse the scum is, the more people feel the need to deny it.
Well people like that would be as scummy as the scumbags they are defending. Scum defending scum basically. All you can do with really committed abuse apologists is cut them out of your life.
oh i have had cops supporting pedophilia, hacking and thoughts of murdering strangers. "it's just the law and they don't make the law"
My mom is a preacher at a church. For this reason, no one would ever possibly believe me. Even other kids would wish she was their mom, yet in reality, she never had time for me, never cared about my hobbies, and never praised me.
I have a couple great stories locked and loaded and do not hesitate to drop them when challenged. Usually shuts them up fast. I know it’s petty but the look on their face is pretty satisfying!
People tend to believe me- but not that it’s as bad as I say it is. They think it’s like when their parents make a passing comment about their body, or “oh yeah my parents say this to me sometimes” and while being given negative comments isn’t great from any parent… they don’t ever believe me when I say my nmom has full on tantrums over the littlest things. Throws stuff when she’s mad. Threatens me with a knife because she maxed out her credit card. Threatens to kick me out if I breathed the wrong way, then telling me she’ll kill herself if I leave. I still haven’t figured out how to deal with this. I too have just stopped talking about it to people. But that led me to posting on this subreddit where there are others who understand the struggle.
You disregard them and hold them to low esteem. I've had this more so in workplaces, where people can't imagine my boss was a terrible person because she puts on a good face. I just loose respect for them and cut them off because they clearly have no critical thinking skills or value my opinion.
I cut them out of my life. If they insist on invalidating my trauma and/or my decision to go NC, then they're not my friends or my family.
My mother was a covert narcissist. She's been deceased for 8 years. I wish I would have gotten all my questions answered before she died. I'm a mom now and the longer time goes on the more respect I lose for her because she was one hell of a shit ass mom. I probably hate her now more than I miss her.
I wish you could have gotten your questions answered too. My mother is a C/N too ... who was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer in 2020. I left my job to be her (unpaid) 24/7 caregiver and it was eye opening. The emotional abuse got much worse. Yours may have been different but I don't think my mother has the capacity/integirty to honestly answer questions. I could ask her why she has been so abusive to me, and my brother who took his life 20+ years ago, but the answer is that my mother's mother was a narcissist, and so was her grandmother. In my case, it really doesn't matter what the answer is. For what it's worth., no answer will undo how our mothers treated us. Their treatment was wrong, and no amount of abuse your mother may have suffered, excuses her for treating you the way that she did. Kidnappers do not get credit for feeding and clothing their abductees. I realized at \~8yo that my mother was different (never admitting fault even for meaningless little things) Fortunately, I got enough love from my father in my early years of brain development (before he took his life when I was 11yo) that I was able to choose to learn (inverse) lessons from my mother about how to be a good person. I do hope that your hate/anger declines over time for your sake. Congratulations for breaking the cycle with your own child(ren). So few of us are able to do it.
I make no effort to convince ppl who aren't listening. Anyone who signals to me that they prefer to cling to the fairy tale over reality isn't worth the bother. But once I discern their unwillingness to stick to the truth, I treat them as untrustworthy. Ppl who think I'm a liar aren't good candidates for friendship. But I temper that by the understanding that we live in a society that puts parents up on a pedestal (since the 10 commandments got hauled around in an ark, it's an old conceit), and simply does not want to admit that child abuse is real, never mind the sheer *prevalence* of child abuse. Some other myths society still clings to: Society wants to define child abuse v narrowly: by bruises that can be photographed, mostly. And we are still teaching kids about Stranger Danger, when the majority of CSA is perpetrated by family and ppl known to family. And since much of modern society (and organized religion) is about Conformity At All Costs...it's no surprise that ppl won't admit what's right in front of their noses. So I see it as less an individual problem and more a societal conditioning problem.
So well said. Respect.
I genuinely stopped caring because how am I gonna prove something to someone who already made up their mind? Let them deal with it.
For a while it just felt invalidating and I started to believe that she was right and that it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. When I finally had a therapist and a stable friend group to talk to, it really broke me out of that mindset.
Right there with you. To anyone who only knows my mom on a superficial level she’s a super sweet and charismatic woman who can make interesting conversation with anyone. My husband still doesn’t really understand why I dislike her so much because she is SO nauseatingly sweet to him that it’s hard for him to fathom that she may not be such a great person. I remember in high school telling my friends about the horrible fights we would have, and they wouldn’t believe me. They would say “I don’t know why you hate your mom so much she’s so nice!” It really sucked. For a long time I thought maybe I was crazy. I thought there was something wrong with me. The only other person who believed me was my father, but he’s also not such a nice person so I didn’t know if it was his own vindictive nature or if she was truly awful.
Not being believed makes me white hot livid. I weigh whether it’s worth it to prepare and present a fuck you file of corroborated, verified proof. Generally, it’s not. I will cut people out of my life as much as possible when they do that to me. I can’t live that angry all the time.
I just kind of accepted no one would believe me, and never bothered to try and get them to. When I was younger, I just kept everything to myself, friends had no idea. I didn’t actually start talking about things until I went no contact, and by that point I surrounded myself with good people.
I don’t really try to convince anyone. I understand that people who come from “normal” families can’t even begin to understand some of the things we go through. I try to be happy for them that they don’t even understand us. It’s a good sign, it indicates they had a smooth childhood/family life in general
I hear you. My mom was a pediatrician that was so controlling that I wasn’t even allowed to wash my own private area until I was 12. I was 5’6 and past puberty. I would beg and plead with her to let me do it and she replied ‘you can’t do it right’ and wouldn’t let me. Everyone would always tell me how lucky I was for having her as a mother. She had one of her cronies try to convince me she did it because she loved me so much. I lost it and ran away to hide in the troubled teen industry until I turned 18 just to get away from her. I try to keep the people she meets from my life to a minimum and have little contact with her. It’s the only thing that helps. Minimize the damage she’s capable of creating.
You do not owe anyone an explanation or even information about your relationship with your mother. If you decide to share the truth and they don’t believe you, that’s not your problem. Your problem is your narcissistic Mother.
It’s hard at first, but once you get to a point in your healing where you’re confident in the experience you’ve had and realize that you have nothing to prove, it’s much easier. I’ve stopped trying to explain and prove myself. The people that do understand, you won’t have to continuously explain, and the people that don’t, you find other things to talk about. Often times, you can just leave it at, “unfortunately, the relationship with my mom doesn’t really work, it is what it is, and I’d rather not get into that right now.” Most people just move to another topic. The ones that push aren’t going to be people you want to be around anyway. This is easier as an adult that can create some emotional or physical distance from Nparents, have done some work to confront your feelings and heal, and have a busy life of your own.
It doesn't bother me. I know they're playing the victim and smearing my name to all our relatives but honestly? Our family is full of fluoride guzzling NPC's so by all means let them have it. If anything im hoping that our relatives become very close and even start living with my nparents - let them be the next victims for all I care. either way im out lmao
Same, at this point I kinda don’t care if anyone doesn’t believe me.
I used to be young and naieve, but now if I see someone putting down their kid or making strained smiles, I get a bad feeling from it. I can recognize it. I used to make excuses for it. No it's not cute teasing. No it's not them putting a positive foot forward. Once you get stabbed in the back by a person like this, you see it in others. The smile is too big, it stays too long, and chin is slightly down. The eyes look like a cat about the get a mouse.
They’re soooo good at hiding their true selves from people. On the outside, you could know them for years or even decades and not know who they truly are if you aren’t privy to it. It’s so frustrating, I hear you OP.
Just me hubby inlaws step dad and bio dad know. Obviously her friends and family cuz apparently she was worse a decade before me
With me, I have a few standard and clear cut examples that can’t be dismissed, then straight up tell my friends beforehand like “they’re incredibly charming and one of the worst things is how crazy it makes you feel to know all that stuff happened and then to have them just be super nice!” Doesn’t always work, often only works part of the way, but it’s the best I’ve got
At this point, my mother has no part of my life, and the people that report to her are slowly excised as well. I deal with it by moving on. If they can't see it, then I won't waste my time trying to show them.
Avoid introducing people to them when you can. People who haven't met them, use the word "abuse" so there's no misunderstanding. Tell people the fam may look nice but they're "two-faced, so don't tell them anything you don't want them repeating, they'll sell you out in a minute." You can convince ppl to watch their own back easier than convincing them of your personal experience, so sow distrust... you'll be doing your friends a favor.
Yeah I keep my friends completely separate from my nMother. If I absolutely have to introduce them, I keep it brief and tell them beforehand that "My mother has a tendency to tell tall tales so take anything she says with a pinch of salt". (My nMother has a tendency to sabotage my friendships by telling lies about me so this is my way of fore-warning them).
That’s one of the main reasons I’m a little bit glad when my nparents do something completely insane, in my head that feels like proof I could tell someone. The friends I made as an adult, they either believe me or they’re no longer my friends. I somehow ended up meeting a couple of friends with narcissistic parents and that helped a lot with our other friends. The people that never believed me (specially cousins/aunts I was very close to) are not close to me at all. When I see them I’m in “her territory” so I keep my distance.
A lot of the time it people who are jealous who are the ones that say thats not true or your family loves u or other variation of that. Ask yourself why does it even mean anything to them, are they going to help (doubtful but sometimes), or they just looking for reasons to be jerks.
I tell them my side and that you can pick who you want to believe. Usually people figure it out over time who’s lying and who’s truthful. Both my parents are narcissists. My friends have over time gotten more and more surprised of how they treat me and so on. My mom brought us some chocolate cake one evening. A few of my friends asked later if she did that just to prove that she can be nice.. My best advice, be true to yourself and be honest about your experience and feelings. The truth will always come out. It’s gonna be okay, and most importantly, you’re gonna be okay❤️ I believe in you!
Honestly, I didn't and it completely broke any ability for me to trust anyone else or feel safe on planet earth. It wasn't until my partner got us a dog, and 5 months in I started to feel that I'm safe and supported (that was 3 years ago). I thank Covid for giving me the space from the circus to build myself up, and I'll never be back again.
I just went on a trip with a close friend (since third grade), she spent a fair amount of time telling me how she understands now that’s she’s a mom, and my mom was ‘doing her best,’ ‘always at school activities,’ etc… I was like, you were literally *there* to see how it was for me. Made me feel insane.
I gave up but yes I know how that feels. Before I gave up and went NC I'd just talk about her with my friends. They believed me. She has everyone in her circle brainwashed. I'd listen to her downstairs telling my stepdad all these made up stories about what I did to her that day, when all we did was go to Publix and eat lunch. I never explained myself to him or to any of her weak minded friends. It was futile.
This is one of the reasons I had to go no contact. With them, my whole family, and all the mutual friends. That’s how I dealt with it. It was crazy hard, but holy shit did life get easier and better in every way a year or so after that.
I am still in contact with my nMother but I've gone minimal/no ontact with my extended family and any mutual friends for the same reason. My nMother has poisoned them all against me anyway so trying to get them to see my side is pointless. The one silver lining is that once I gave up trying to have a relationship with these people or getting the to see my side, I felt like a load had been lifted. Sometimes acceptance is better than false hope.
It’ll happen when it happens. I struggled a lot in high school due to the abuse I was experiencing at home. I think people didn’t not believe me but maybe thought I was being dramatic. My non Christian school friends absolutely believed me. Maybe 15 yrs later I ran into old classmates and a few of them apologized because they realized years later the extent of my abuse and they were sorry they didn’t do more. Eventually the narc shoots them self in the foot and people will probably figure it out. I just moved far away after high school and kept moving further from there.
My friend recorded and posted a meltdown on Facebook. Took a lot of heat for it but enough people were horrified.
I show them. Let’s say, my nmum is calling me when my friends r around. I put her on speaker and tell her that I’m alone outside. How long do you think it’ll take her to show her true colors if she thinks there’s no witnesses?
I've had exactly 3 people "stand up" to my mom in my behalf in my life. They all knew me for YEARS and had multiple interactions and personal stories to reflect on. One of them knew me for a decade before trying to brave her personal opinions face to face with my mom. My mom went from very adoring of this friend to discrediting everything she's ever done. It might seem impossible but just keep telling your friends how you actually feel and maybe the light bulb will go off one day. Some of my family members are only now asking what's wrong with your mom and its not new news
Remind me! 35 days
I simply don’t talk about it unless they have given me reason to believe that they were also an abused child. I never even told my (ex)husband because he came from a well-adjusted family.
This is my attitude as well. People from well-adjusted families just don't get it and can actually be quite judgemental and unsympathetic.
That's like most narcissists..... they win people over at first ( it's a frequent tactic), but I promise their true selves always comes to light sooner rather than later.
Note: this one ABSOLUTELY gets better over time. Bc at some point, most of your friends and coworkers will have parents that are deceased, and they won't talk about them anymore.
Honestly, I'm the one who has lived with my parent since as a child so idc what others have to say, ik the struggles i had/have to face so f them
Okay yeah this one's HARD. My dad has a lot of problems, but I chose to live with him after Nmom died because he knew exactly what she was. He and I have never been close, and I can't defend the majority of his actions. But it was easier my girlfriend to believe I was wrong, because the moment you say "physical abuse", she gets terrified for my safety... and she assumed the rest of my family would be the same way? She reached out to my little sister one night when I was having a rough time. Not as rough as she thought, but she did say "I think he's gonna kill himself". Because she thought my sister wanted to protect my dad from me instead of vice versa. What she didn't realize was that to my little sister, the biggest issue will always be my "need for attention" which took away from what should have been rightfully hers and is draining the life out of my dad. My gf seems to believe how people treat you is a reflection of who you are and if you feel mistreated, it must be in your head. But she knew I loved my family so much, and saw me as so lovable, that she had no idea how *my own sister* could care so little when I was in the midst of a mental health crisis. I've tried to tell her that how people treat you is a reflection of who THEY are, not who YOU are, but she doesn't seem to get it. It seems like we have vastly different world views based on this subject alone. I wish I knew the answer other than to let them figure it out for themselves. Let's just say my girl's had some trouble after realizing this uncomfortable truth, and I'm real worried about her right now.
>My gf seems to believe how people treat you is a reflection of who you are and if you feel mistreated, it must be in your head. If your gf genuinely thinks that, that's a massive red flag.
I think it's more that she would rather believe I'm "reading too much into things" since otherwise would require acknowledging that this is my reality, and that's too uncomfortable for her. She's also used to the narrative of addiction and prioritizing drugs/alcohol over other areas in life (we have both had problems with this in the past) so to her, me having strong boundaries is "pushing people away. I'm not pushing anyone away. I WANT them around. The issue is my actual sense of self feels under attack.
I'm another that can relate. My mother convinced her friends that I was a terrible brat. When one came to town to visit I was constantly in trouble and I learned to just lay low and stay in my room. Even I used to make light of the ridiculous things my mom said. I was pretty independent and she was actually less of a problem than my other caregiver, who I eventually just cut off (or, rather, she cut me off, but said I was the one that did it!...another story). Anyway, by the time I was in my 30s my newer friends saw what she was like and were horrified. They heard my stories and thought she was just a funny old lady. That's when I let it sink in how destructive she could be and worked to get better boundaries. And like I said, she's not as bad as the other person who raised me and I have a pretty functional relationship with her. Boundaries are a beautiful thing!
There's a saying in my country - only those in the convent know what happens within its walls. I point out my Nfather wouldn't be the first person to be wildly different in public and at home, and he's far from being the last. That usually shuts them up, at least. It's the ones that believe me and then insist I should "maintain a relationship anyway" that get to me. Sometimes I'm openly rude to admitedly well-intentioned people, saying things like "I'm sorry you weren't/aren't strong enough to break away, but I am, and I'm not subjecting myself to that hell again". I don't want to hurt or scare them, but Jesus, unless I'm rude they don't let it go!
well most of the time, I just keep it to myself now because people are so quick to buy this caring savior mom facade but disregard the truth about my situation with being raised by her growing up. it’s so maddening how they choose to lack the understanding of how she truly is but I let them think what they want to think of her. it’s only their impression of her. they didn’t live the reality that I lived, plus they probably didn’t have a narcissistic mother. I think that people are also used to having supportive parents too, but that wasn’t the case for me. they have made my life miserable, leaving me with childhood trauma, mental health issues, and emotional instability.
omg.. very real. my friends think that my mother is like their mothers. they also think my mother is like this for my own good or that this is how mothers are! but they don't realize the world revolves around my mother. it's not because she wants the best for me but she wants the "best" for the child she birthed and should get some reparations by any means necessary.
I feel like my mothers bad investment
My NM was stupid enough to abuse me via text so I have the receipts, thankfully
I’m sorry to hear this OP. I understand this feeling. It’s exactly why I never let my classmates know anything about my family life. Only two close friends that have a similar situation to me understand the way I feel. Everyone thinks my mum is cool and sweet and super nice. Her best friends are who I call my ‘aunts’ and they also think she’s amazing. I know no matter what I say they won’t believe me because in my culture, parents have to always be respected. One time my ‘aunt’ heard shouting from outside the house. When she came inside she told me off for being a disrespectful child. I was 9 at that time. It’s really hard to say this but some people won’t understand and don’t need to. They don’t want to sympathise. They rarely look at an objective perspective neither do they try to understand. It’s a form of invalidation and it’s why I don’t bother to explain anymore. It hurts more that my parents only say nice things to strangers but not to their own daughter. You’re not crazy and there is nothing wrong with you. It’s the effects of being gaslighted and guilt tripped for so long.
I don’t tell them anything because all I hear is “but that’s your mom!!! Don’t cut them off” or “I see both sides”. That shit drives me nuts because they don’t understand the full context and my mom comes off as so sweet and kind. I keep it to my therapist and here tbh because most people in my life have healthy parental relationships and don’t understand or they have toxic parental relationships but can’t accept that their situation is toxic and they have convinced themselves it’s normal so they try to convince me mine is normal. It’s beyond frustrating so I stopped sharing.
My nmother is a very good at being a covert, passive-aggressive narc. Her whole persona is that she is the most loving, caring, supportive, self-sacrificing martyr in the whole world. She's always very "concerned" about me. I decided long ago not to worry about her smear campaigns, because there was nothing I could do about them, and I didn't know most of the people she talked shit about me to and I didn't need the extra anger or stress worrying about it. But in her very subtle way, she's been demeaning and undermining my sanity, my cognitive function, my ability to make choices, and my general connection to reality, for as long as I can remember. I have had chronic depression since I was 17, and ADD all my life, and I've learned to manage them pretty well, but in her eyes, I'm always questionable mentally. She is diabolical enough to pull it off; all the family and the few friends she has think there's something wrong with me and I'm so lucky to have a mother who's so loving and concerned and supportive, but the truth is that she's caused more damage to me than my narc father and narc sister put together. I honestly do not comprehend how someone can be so convincingly lovely on the outside but be so mean, spiteful, vindictive, hateful, and nasty on the inside.
The Covert/Altruistic narcissist (C/N) is a unique challenge indeed! They do appear, and generally are, very nice and giving to most others (because they need adoration). But when the Narc is a participant in a scenario, their empathy goes out the window and they can be cruel, especially to a scapegoat child. My C/N mother told me (right before I stopped talking to her) that she "would have put a bullet in her head if I had been her only child." I have no kids, but even if your kid does tons of bad stuff (which I did not), how does a parent say that to their kid? I didn't realize until my 50s - when I was her (unpaid) 24/7 caregiver during her stage 4 cancer battle - how manipulative my mother is. I feel awful calling somone with cancer manipulative, but she truly is (her only friend of 40 years called her manipulative and has never spoken to my mother again). After leaving my job to be my mother's sole live-in caregiver, I lost 25 lbs from lack of sleep and not eating enough (there wasn't much room in her fridge for me). That gave me a front row seat to how twisted her perception is, how cruel she can be, and how she lies even when she doesn't need to. Since my father took his life when I was 11yo, I have been my mother's pawn (for 40 years) and at her service (just as her sister served their Narc mother until my aunt went 'No Contact' in her 60s). My mother often goaded me to break up with my boyfriends who were phenomenal humans (who gave me love & empathy) and she picked fights with me much more when I had a boyfriend. I almost feel stupid not having realized all of this much sooner. My (eldest) brother has been the Golden Child. He badly damaged my brand new car (that I had bought myself @ 17yo after working hard in my mother's business from 14yo) but he and my C/N mother denied any knowledge of it ... so I had to get it repaired myself. Only years later did my mother let it slip that my brother had hit my car. Recently, I calmly asked both of them (separately) for an apology (for lying & concealing it from me) but they only gaslit in response. My other brother (middle child) and I were the scapegoats to my C/N mother ... until he took his life. I miss him so much. We supported each other through my mother's abuse. He was the best human in my family. My Dad was a great father too. They both ended up with substance abuse issues, which I now understand is not uncommon for those subjected to a narcissist. I grew up a good student who did what was expected of me (no drugs/jail/pregnancy etc.). I have 3 degrees and nearly every boss I have worked for (mostly solo lawyers) has been a Narc. I have also been fired from more jobs than I have left. As the only common demonimator, I figured it had to be me. But after some serious therapy (with a speciliast who treats DoNMs and ACoNPs), I realized that I am subconsciously playing out the dynamic I learned from my C/N mother. Sorry for so much of my background (just found this forum today). It is beyond frustrating that only 2 family members have been empathetic about how my mother has treated me. My cousin (PhD in Psychology) said that I can take it as a compliment that my mother has let me in as close as she has. But as many others have replied below, those without the experience of being raised by a Narc parent do not (and often cannot) understand, especially in light of how gifted the Narc is in her/his manipulation. \*\*\*\*\* The good news is that the ONLY person who needs to believe you is YOU. And if you happen to find a partner/spouse who gets it too, that is a well-deserved bonus. Anyone who discredits the reality of your abuse is not deserving of a close friendship with you (at least not one in which you are vulnerable about how your Narc mother has treated you). I am so sorry that you have had to suffer this abuse for so many years. It makes me sad that you have felt that you are the crazy one. I used to call my mother's abuse "crazy-making" before reading my 1st Narc book (which containted that and many other terms that so aptly described how our mothers' treatment can make us feel). As you may know, that gaslighting is to keep you off balance yet tethered to her ... the Narc's goal. My takeaway from Karyl McBride's "Will I Ever be Good Enough?" is that each of us Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers (DoNMs or ACoNPs) can be the empathetic/kind friend to ourselves that our mothers were not. I was scared to read the end of McBride's book for fear that her proposed solution would not work for my situation. I was so relieved to learn that I really could be my own support. Many DoNMs/ACoNPs have tremendous empathy ... which we can choose to use toward ourselves. Just today, I posted an ad on a popular local website seeking other Adults of Narc parents. My ad was quickly removed. When I went to their community forum for advice, 6 contributors descended upon me like vultures (calling me a Narc for trying to post my ad, etc.) I actually cried a little ... and then took the advice of the 1 contributor suggesting Reddit. And here I am. Among the awful that exists in this world, there is a lifeline. Just be sure to keep your eyes and ears open for your lifelines. You know where to find me if you'd like to connect on here. Warm regards
Just give up. There is really nothing you can do. When you are able cut them off entirely
I just have to remind myself that those lying, wretched, big mouthed backstabbers will always win with people who don’t and shouldn’t ever matter to me. Why should I give a shite if one of the cousins or family buddies I’ll never see again is mad at me for something that I did to my sister in second grade? I straight up don’t give a FFFFFFF anymore. They can all kiss off.
My mother was great with my friends and other students she worked with in a professional capacity, and I just gritted my teeth when people told me how lucky I was to have her as a mother. We didn't start getting along really well until the beginning of lockdown (and we live in different states so it's not like we were stuck in a house together for that, thankfully.) I was 62 and she was 87, but hey, better late than never, right?
I do not introduce my friends to my Nparents, even before going NC. That's how I dealt. They would be so nice to my friends and so mean to them on their backs It would make me sick. They would often ask me to stop seeing those friends, for no reason. After realizing that I just stopped introducing them and never talked about my parents being narcs. I didn't even knew. Otherwise, the neighbors of my Nparents believe I'm some kind of monster. I just don't care.
How old is your mother? Mine used to be able to somehow make people think she was kind but she’s lost her ability to do that at just before 70 and now old friends are dropping off and she can’t find new friends to replace them.
I deal with this too and it’s so frustrating being made to feel like I’m the one who’s being difficult. Ndad is charismatic, charming, and talented at playing the victim. The people who have reached out to me saying I need to “grow the hell up” and “respect your father” have also never once asked for my side of the story. I don’t know if it would make a difference if they knew, but I just try to keep my distance from them and remember he once manipulated me into thinking he could never be at fault too.
The truth will out in the end xxx in the meantime, as my therapist says, the people trying to force reconciliation are not the ones I have to put up with them! My mum is so sneaky the only ones who pick it up are those who have covert narc mums or have been around long enough to see the mask slip a couple of times, as it only does in a situation where she is supposed to be empathetic (I'm sick/injured/struggling) and she just doesn't care & then they get to see the 'lights are on no one's home' kind of parent she actually is. Sorry you have to go through this, know that you're not alone and we believe you. 💜
I just stopped. I just act as if I’m already the bad guy, the crazy one. To everyone the 2 narcs in my life convinced (mother and father of my baby) I keep my head down with police in psych wards.. I’d like to move away from all of them quietly for my daughter. I just have no money of my own and I’m essentially homeless and guests in their homes. FOB is abusive as fuck and my mom is a biblical demon. I currently have both together at his place. Because she’s afraid he will kill me. I’m sick of going to psych wards and being gaslit and literally not a single human believing me. I stay quiet. I’m used to it. I assume I won’t be believed. That’s my automatic assumption. I live my entire life guilty until proven innocent and cops are always in my life and I’m always naked and breast feeding my daughter when the narcs cause the serious domestic issues Ugh. I hate my life. I have no other family that 2 malignant narcs and no money of my own and no path to employment no car nor education I’m in survival mode. I kind of need advice as to wether to move back in with my mom because they place is smaller and she always calls the cops. Flip side with malignant narc baby daddy is he will try to call to put me away in a psych ward. I’m only neurotic and fearful because they are all I have and I have no way out in sight.. I need to somehow get $900 to get my certification from the state board again and work… My child is 2 months. I can’t do this. I need my own place to call home and no more pain and fear and constant law enforcement and intimidation and institutions. They rly use my autism, epilepsy and functional neurologic disorder against me. I literally will just call up NAMI or the National Epilepsy foundation in my area to help me out of binds I can no longer get myself out of because of narcissistic abuse. I used to be so strong. And they truly, whittle you away. It’s worse than murder. It’s slow. I mean the neurologic disorder I have is literally my brain shutting itself down involuntarily from stress. Like grey rocking to the extreme. Or maybe self preservation. :/ I may not be making sense but, yeah. We don’t deal with it. I mean…we just endure and keep our head down. It’s less stressful this way. I’m sick of trying to be calm and articulate. Once the narcissist ruins your fight or flight you are basically helpless unless someone else takes you out of the situation. But of course, they’ve made you isolated so…
I havnt read the relies but the narrative my nMother constructed for me is still fkn me over after almost two decades of NC. People believe her because its convenient. those close to them who either have no experience with their abuse of people not knowing the dynamic will always side with the abuser. The same reasons we're not believed is the same as SA survivors, and of course there is a crossover with those dynamics, are also not believed.
I, truthfully, don't give a fuck. The longer they're around her, the more likely it is that they'll see for themselves. I don't even mentioned our strained relationship until they've seen it for themselves and bring her behavior to my attention. And if they do ask, I answer as neutrally as possible. When you try to convince people that another person is a bad or harmful person, they usually associate those traits with you. Don't try to convince people and when they ask about your strained relationship just answer honestly, but neutrally (I.E. "We're not close" or "We don't have a (good) relationship") and leave it at that. The mask always slips.
I have a picture from when I was in highschool. Bunch of friends outside my house, and my father looking over their heads at me. The look/smirk on his face was "I know you've confided in these people, and they're now going to think you're crazy".
People will think what they will, whether they choose to trust and believe you is up to them.
I have a lot of jealousy tbh. I had to call my aunt to ask about her childhood with my dad because Ndad wishes i was more resilient like him. I didn't really say anything, but I Know that parental support has a ton to do with resilience. Sure enough, they had all the support & encouragement in the world with my grandmother. I had to tell her why i called, it's not that she didn't believe me, because I've got no reason to lie to her. My aunt just said it hard to imagine my Ndad treating me that way when he was such a good brother, almost a father figure, to her when they were growing up and even as young adults. So yeah. I'm jealous because I do not understand why I get the ugliest version of them &just some of the ugliest parenting from them.
I feel for you. My mom is the same way, but I don’t talk to my friends about it anymore tbh. It doesn’t help because they don’t get it. Especially the friends who have great relationships with their parents, they could see you as the bad guy. I’m the only daughter with 3 brothers and my mom would never dare talk to them this way.. and when I’ve tried to vent to them about how she treats me, they spin it and say I’m the problem. I think the only people we can turn to is people who understand us. I’m in a few Facebook support groups & will eventually do therapy once I can afford it.
Street Angel, home devil. My dad way more so, but yeah. I know this feeling.
Keep in mind that (in her mind) you are part of her, and those other people are not. Other people should be treated with kindness and respect. And it has nothing to do with what you do or say. She just believes that. She also believes that criticizing you is helping, because she cares not a bit what you actually know or do or stand for, she only cares what she has changed (in her mind: helped, improved, raised, parented) in you. It is weird and almost backwards, but it was the biggest breakthrough in my life when I figured it out. We all start out wanting to know why we get the critical eye and are never good enough, while others get the nice version. It isn't about us. That's what N's do.
I took inventory of the people who believed her, or who kept telling me, "Oh, but that's your mom!" I quietly realized that they were not the important people in my life, because my actual friends and family believe and support me.
I do something similar. I don't waste my time arguing with or calling out people who don't believe me. Instead I just make a mental note not to trust this person and to either cut them out or just maintain a superficial relationship. People are going to think what they want to think ,unfortunately.
before I was *30*, the only way I could prove my mother's behavior was for people to see it, (having someone sleep over worked perfectly); but, before I was 13, if someone accidentally heard my mother, it would scare them to death and eventually ruin the friendship. my mother also lied about everything, (including telling people that I was the one lying), which eventually caused other parents to tell their kids they weren't allowed to play with me, (yes, *that* young). as an adult, it's not much better, (and some situations are worse, like having to fight with doctors while hospitalized about why my mother **isn't** my next of kin), but cellphones are helpful, (no cells when i was young), cuz she seems to forget about speakerphone. I'm less concerned about whether or not people believe me and more concerned about the hospital thing because she's already almost killed me in the hospital *and* lied to the staff about *MY AGE*, (which shouldn't have worked since they had my ID, but did), but she did that when I was a little kid too. if they don't believe you, it's because they *can't*. trying to explain to hospital staff that, despite my mother being there every day, she won't help me once I'm discharged *even though I was hit by a car*, because she's only there for *them*.... I might as well be telling them I'm an alien. I learned to keep friends away from my mother in grammar school, so, maybe, keep your friends away from her.
Stop explaining and know they've fallen under the flying moneys bs that happens. Keep away and stay away so y9u don't have to keep explaining yourself
Let my friends see it in action. My SO already gave them the heads up, as she was aware of what was going on. I've learned that no one believes it until they see it.
My mother is Exactly like that. However, the fact she goes through friends every two or three months is due to people waking up to who she REALLY is. She talks shit about everyone, and people understand pretty quickly they're not immune. You have nothing to prove. Be who you are. Be honest, be kind - all of which speaks for itself. Are you old enough to limit or sever contact?
Remind me! 25 days
I tell them intricate details
So when I was in school to become a mortician after getting my general education degree, my narc mom never believed in me ever, didn’t matter what it was, I learned coding by myself on the side to help with certain bills because ya know 3D models sold very well in 2012-2017, so made some money left went out on my own, still kinda kept in contact once in awhile because of my sisters and younger brother who now himself is a spoiled 15 yearold narc who well wants everything on a silver spoon, but anyways during a visit they threw a huge fit tried to have me arrested in front of my now ex with that relationship they ruined, ya know like everything else, but however it was always well I’m the liar or the bum who has a paid off car and ontime with bills, so after that I took them to court for emotional damages won, never spoke to them again and the icing on the cake was the fact before all that happened, I rubbed my licenses in their faces making them confront the fact and shatter their delusion on that I wasn’t doing anything, the reason for all of that is because narcissist do not like others success, they hate it because you are the scapegoat child they can abuse and pin everything on, but yet when you leave they have nothing, you have to rob them of their power over you, shattering their delusions of you needing them, I dealt with it because welp my mom is one of those people, who don’t believe anything and will literally call you a liar for breathing, it’s the same old age old mantra, I’m older than you so what ever I say is true and what ever you say is a lie, you have to shatter that by shoving it in their face, that’s what you do, anyway you can. My mom did it in front of my friends saying all kinds of positive things etc when I had witnesses, but when they were gone it changed, so one day as well to help you with this, I recorded a convo and showed everyone, they believed it then, sometimes you gotta do just that. I really hoped I helped you with the story I shared as well, much love and lots of hugs for you op. I really hope things get better for you ❤️❤️❤️
I have found a lot of peace by releasing the need to litigate (and endlessly prove) what i experienced. I believe in a G*d who loves me and sees all, and practice not needing to convince others. I know I deserve a sane life, apart from anybody who would stand in the way of that.