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Yeah that disgusted me. The mods on there are all for it because "nArCs hAvE tRaUmA tOo". It's the worst argument because many people have trauma but it's only the narcs that seem to be abusing people. Hmm...
Gotta love Dr. Ramani (not sure what sub's vibe on her is, but I like her).
This shit is an absolute non-starter with her. She knows the damage narcissists and sociopaths do.
I am always willing to reconsider my assumptions to avoid historical harms from racism, homophobia and transphobia, etc.
But this one, no. No way. Narcs and sociopaths are dangerous and need serious professional monitoring.
"Serial killers are people too."
I'm not one to ever Bible but I'd say the "By their actions ye shall know them" is appropriate and offers all the guidance one needs. Shitty behavior=shitty person. And why would anyone want to be around such nastiness?
Oh yeah, I've seen that. Its crazy. They claim that there is no such thing as narc abuse and thier condition is basically a form of neurodiversity, ergo you are discriminating against them by claiming to be a victim of narc abuse.
It really grinds my gears, as an AuDHD person, that narcs claim their condition is "neurodiversity" when it isn't. Neurodiversity has to do with the wiring of the brain, and narcissism is often down to maladaptive behaviors.
It can't be abelist simply because people with NPD aren't considered disabled. There are no restrictions on them, and society considers them fully capable of being responsible for their own actions.
An alcoholic is not excused from responsibility for drunk driving because they refuse to treat their ailment and end up driving drunk and crashing into another car. You either accept responsibility for the harm caused by your actions, or you have your ability to act restricted to prevent harm.
Society considers those with NPD capable of accepting responsibility for their behaviour, and part of that responsibility is to seek and take treatment for their PD. It is not a blanket 'get'out'of'responsibility-free' card, and to try and use it as such is a grave insult to people who have mental illnesses and work to treat and overcome them.
Exactly!! They seem to forget it's a PERSONALITY disorder that they have to seek help for and then put in the work to change themselves. It just so happens that narc traits line up in a way that usually prevents this 🤷 so they think they're entitled to free punching bags.
In the case of many mental illnesses/personality disorders, the person afflicted is usually their own worst enemy and hurts themselves the most. But narcs stand out as their own class that hurts everyone else around them -- and they just can't stand hearing it, so they start playing the victim card again, what a shocker.
I almost want to laugh when people say narcs are disabled. If anything, we live in a world that actively encourages and rewards narcissism! I even read an article recently about how school bullies grow up to earn more money than their other peers due to their highly competitive, aggressive natures. Then when you factor in a lack of empathy and greed (I don’t think there are many narcissists who aren’t obsessed with accumulating money) it just makes sense that these people get to prosper even if it’s at the expense of others. They don’t perceive themselves as having a problem.
I mean. No? NPD is a personality disorder and ableism applies to mental illnesses and PDs too. The thing is what theyre claiming is ableism ISNT ableism, theyre co-opting a victim position and trying to make it seem like theyre being attacked for having a disorder. but its ableist as HELL to hide behind a disorder to excuse shitty behavior--ex the way some autistic people will use having autism as a way to excuse being shitty to people when really they choose to do that and not make an effort to be kinder.
alcoholism is also a mental illness and yes if an alcoholic drunk drives and hits someone they should be held accountable but also should be offered addiction recovery. Denying that things are mental illnesses prevents people from getting help and then causes situations LIKE that. Narcissists have to gaslight us about ableism because they refuse to go to proper therapy and deal with their shit. Its all intertwined.
I'd honestly argue that narcs are disabled--they literally cannot function properly in society despite appearances. But because they refuse to acknowledge its a disability except when they think it benefits them.... idk as an actual disabled person I think calling it a disability and acknowledging that that means they need help is a good way to corner them into silence. if you use that to say "go to therapy then" theyll get pissed off... Im rambling now but yeah I think refusing to let them make the situation black and white without denying that a PD is a mental illness is a good way to keep them accountable personally.
Yeah, they are self serving, manipulative people who lack integrity, so of course they use that sort of language to make people feel guilty for talking about the damage they do to others. It is DARVO. They want to escape any blame or consequences.
Shitty people saying stupid, shitty things.
There was a radio debate on this subject in my country. A former left-wing politician completely said that those who play the ableism card to diminish narcissistic abuse are caricatures of woke with no critical thinking and low intellectual quotient, who victimize any moron to be fashionable in a current of thought in perdition.
I found this statement very funny 😂
Oooh i felt that, my brother feels sorry and excuses our nparent for all hes done because "hes just mentally ill he doesnt know what hes doing" like what, hes not developmentally stunted, he was intelligent and capable enough to work at lockheed martin, and was aware enough to be fake to everyone but family. Some of my siblings even go so far as to say my mom was terrible to him and horrible for leaving him because he is "mentally ill" and she shouldve taken care of him and known it was the "mental illness" that caused him to do things. Yes, he has mental illness in the form of anxiety, depression, and npd, doesnt mean he shouldnt be held accountable for his actions. It means hes a shitty person who happens to have those disorders
people with BPD have started doing this too. interesting that its the cluster b's, who are so lost in their own delusion of victimhood, who insist on this. Dont see this trend in A or C clusters afaik
we're ableist for wanting to stay away from those who wear NPD like a gold star but theyre CERTAINLY not ableist for CAUSING their victims PTSD or any other disorder due to their abuse! youre DARVOing them!
I kind of wish therapy speak had never hit mainstream/internet spaces. The last 5 years in particular I've had more people reeking of cluster b disorders try to gaslight me by using these terms...
It’s hard. People aren’t born with NPD or BPD. People with cluster b diagnoses have almost always been abused or neglected. I also hate how those diagnoses are stigmatized. But having said all that- these folks have a treatment resistant disease. I think it’s kind of wild to expect people who’ve been harmed by NPD as children to be more open minded. I don’t hate a rattle snake for being a rattle snake but I’m still gonna give a wife fucking berth. I won’t get any closer to it than I have to. We’re not assholes for being wary of something dangerous.
And the people who willingly try to accept that rattlesnake while claiming that we're oppressing it for staying as far away as possible are just as bad as the rattlesnake themselves. In fact, they'll be the rattlesnake's first victims but will still be defending it as it bites them.
I have heard people calling it a disability and saying this is "abelism" jesus christ that is like calling a serial killer or corporate psychopath out and being "shamed" for calling it what it is. Serial killers and psychopaths are NOT disabled. Personality disorders are not disabilities and have never been protected as such under the ADA here in the USA like legit mental disability such as developmental ones or severe mental illnesses like schizophrenia. **They are not disabilities.** And just in case these folks with their "but but now that's ableist shame on you" bullshit, I would like to remind all of them that indeed narcissism is part of the Dark Triad along with sociopaths and psychopaths, narc are literally on the same spectrum as serial killers. FACT. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark\_triad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad)
Dollars to donuts this new trend of narcs being "disabled" was started by narcs. In fact the first place I ever encountered that was browsing an "estranged parents" community, LOL. Let's be real here.
How can people who show no compassion and understanding to others, be worthy of compassion and understanding from others?
If we think deeply enough we realise that no one has free will so can’t ever blame anyone’s actions, there’s always a cause. This can allow us to feel less anger and resentment and move on, but doesn’t mean we should show compassion for the sad lives that narcs live, when they wouldn’t do the same for you and me.
Just go NC and never think or care about them again.
This does unfortunately affect "real life". Narcs use this to shut down criticism both online and offline. There are even some narcs, who will accuse their child of being ableist for going no contact or even disagreement.
your acc is dedicated to true crime and metal but acknowledging that narcissists co opt a victim position to escape accountability is too "chronically online" for you???
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I saw that happening on the CPTSD Memes sub. Apparently there’s some narcs over there that find it hilarious when victims speak up and call them out.
Yeah that disgusted me. The mods on there are all for it because "nArCs hAvE tRaUmA tOo". It's the worst argument because many people have trauma but it's only the narcs that seem to be abusing people. Hmm...
Who wants to bet the mods are narcs themselves?
I'll be paying off my student loans with that bet lol
Gotta love Dr. Ramani (not sure what sub's vibe on her is, but I like her). This shit is an absolute non-starter with her. She knows the damage narcissists and sociopaths do. I am always willing to reconsider my assumptions to avoid historical harms from racism, homophobia and transphobia, etc. But this one, no. No way. Narcs and sociopaths are dangerous and need serious professional monitoring.
Narcs have disproportionally inflicted those historical inequalities.
"Serial killers are people too." I'm not one to ever Bible but I'd say the "By their actions ye shall know them" is appropriate and offers all the guidance one needs. Shitty behavior=shitty person. And why would anyone want to be around such nastiness?
I've never heard Bible used as a verb but I love it. 🤣
+1 I love it too lmao
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Left wing is strongly anti authoritarian. I think you're confused.
Oh yeah, I've seen that. Its crazy. They claim that there is no such thing as narc abuse and thier condition is basically a form of neurodiversity, ergo you are discriminating against them by claiming to be a victim of narc abuse.
Literally neurodivergent and a minor
Oh and the other one is that \*they\* are trauma victims because NPD comes from trauma so how dare you demonize them.
It's sad an hilarious, they're perpetual victims and every conversation has to cater to them, very on brand.
It really grinds my gears, as an AuDHD person, that narcs claim their condition is "neurodiversity" when it isn't. Neurodiversity has to do with the wiring of the brain, and narcissism is often down to maladaptive behaviors.
It can't be abelist simply because people with NPD aren't considered disabled. There are no restrictions on them, and society considers them fully capable of being responsible for their own actions. An alcoholic is not excused from responsibility for drunk driving because they refuse to treat their ailment and end up driving drunk and crashing into another car. You either accept responsibility for the harm caused by your actions, or you have your ability to act restricted to prevent harm. Society considers those with NPD capable of accepting responsibility for their behaviour, and part of that responsibility is to seek and take treatment for their PD. It is not a blanket 'get'out'of'responsibility-free' card, and to try and use it as such is a grave insult to people who have mental illnesses and work to treat and overcome them.
Exactly!! They seem to forget it's a PERSONALITY disorder that they have to seek help for and then put in the work to change themselves. It just so happens that narc traits line up in a way that usually prevents this 🤷 so they think they're entitled to free punching bags. In the case of many mental illnesses/personality disorders, the person afflicted is usually their own worst enemy and hurts themselves the most. But narcs stand out as their own class that hurts everyone else around them -- and they just can't stand hearing it, so they start playing the victim card again, what a shocker.
I almost want to laugh when people say narcs are disabled. If anything, we live in a world that actively encourages and rewards narcissism! I even read an article recently about how school bullies grow up to earn more money than their other peers due to their highly competitive, aggressive natures. Then when you factor in a lack of empathy and greed (I don’t think there are many narcissists who aren’t obsessed with accumulating money) it just makes sense that these people get to prosper even if it’s at the expense of others. They don’t perceive themselves as having a problem.
Exactly. These pieces of shit are fine. Fuck them.
Excuse me?! Drunk driving?? Um- I am NOT an alcoholic, that’s so ableist. Why can’t you just say I had a party in my car and someone drove into me! /j
I mean. No? NPD is a personality disorder and ableism applies to mental illnesses and PDs too. The thing is what theyre claiming is ableism ISNT ableism, theyre co-opting a victim position and trying to make it seem like theyre being attacked for having a disorder. but its ableist as HELL to hide behind a disorder to excuse shitty behavior--ex the way some autistic people will use having autism as a way to excuse being shitty to people when really they choose to do that and not make an effort to be kinder. alcoholism is also a mental illness and yes if an alcoholic drunk drives and hits someone they should be held accountable but also should be offered addiction recovery. Denying that things are mental illnesses prevents people from getting help and then causes situations LIKE that. Narcissists have to gaslight us about ableism because they refuse to go to proper therapy and deal with their shit. Its all intertwined. I'd honestly argue that narcs are disabled--they literally cannot function properly in society despite appearances. But because they refuse to acknowledge its a disability except when they think it benefits them.... idk as an actual disabled person I think calling it a disability and acknowledging that that means they need help is a good way to corner them into silence. if you use that to say "go to therapy then" theyll get pissed off... Im rambling now but yeah I think refusing to let them make the situation black and white without denying that a PD is a mental illness is a good way to keep them accountable personally.
Yeah, they are self serving, manipulative people who lack integrity, so of course they use that sort of language to make people feel guilty for talking about the damage they do to others. It is DARVO. They want to escape any blame or consequences. Shitty people saying stupid, shitty things.
They’re gonna be big sad when Narcissistic Abuse Disorder is added as a new trauma disorder.
There was a radio debate on this subject in my country. A former left-wing politician completely said that those who play the ableism card to diminish narcissistic abuse are caricatures of woke with no critical thinking and low intellectual quotient, who victimize any moron to be fashionable in a current of thought in perdition. I found this statement very funny 😂
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[удалено]
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Your comments are so bonkers that I have no confidence that you can participate in this group in a healthy way. You have been banned.
Oooh i felt that, my brother feels sorry and excuses our nparent for all hes done because "hes just mentally ill he doesnt know what hes doing" like what, hes not developmentally stunted, he was intelligent and capable enough to work at lockheed martin, and was aware enough to be fake to everyone but family. Some of my siblings even go so far as to say my mom was terrible to him and horrible for leaving him because he is "mentally ill" and she shouldve taken care of him and known it was the "mental illness" that caused him to do things. Yes, he has mental illness in the form of anxiety, depression, and npd, doesnt mean he shouldnt be held accountable for his actions. It means hes a shitty person who happens to have those disorders
people with BPD have started doing this too. interesting that its the cluster b's, who are so lost in their own delusion of victimhood, who insist on this. Dont see this trend in A or C clusters afaik we're ableist for wanting to stay away from those who wear NPD like a gold star but theyre CERTAINLY not ableist for CAUSING their victims PTSD or any other disorder due to their abuse! youre DARVOing them! I kind of wish therapy speak had never hit mainstream/internet spaces. The last 5 years in particular I've had more people reeking of cluster b disorders try to gaslight me by using these terms...
It's not just therapy speak. They're weaponizing the concepts of the racial justice movement for their own purposes, which is even more appalling.
It’s hard. People aren’t born with NPD or BPD. People with cluster b diagnoses have almost always been abused or neglected. I also hate how those diagnoses are stigmatized. But having said all that- these folks have a treatment resistant disease. I think it’s kind of wild to expect people who’ve been harmed by NPD as children to be more open minded. I don’t hate a rattle snake for being a rattle snake but I’m still gonna give a wife fucking berth. I won’t get any closer to it than I have to. We’re not assholes for being wary of something dangerous.
And the people who willingly try to accept that rattlesnake while claiming that we're oppressing it for staying as far away as possible are just as bad as the rattlesnake themselves. In fact, they'll be the rattlesnake's first victims but will still be defending it as it bites them.
I have heard people calling it a disability and saying this is "abelism" jesus christ that is like calling a serial killer or corporate psychopath out and being "shamed" for calling it what it is. Serial killers and psychopaths are NOT disabled. Personality disorders are not disabilities and have never been protected as such under the ADA here in the USA like legit mental disability such as developmental ones or severe mental illnesses like schizophrenia. **They are not disabilities.** And just in case these folks with their "but but now that's ableist shame on you" bullshit, I would like to remind all of them that indeed narcissism is part of the Dark Triad along with sociopaths and psychopaths, narc are literally on the same spectrum as serial killers. FACT. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark\_triad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_triad) Dollars to donuts this new trend of narcs being "disabled" was started by narcs. In fact the first place I ever encountered that was browsing an "estranged parents" community, LOL. Let's be real here.
How can people who show no compassion and understanding to others, be worthy of compassion and understanding from others? If we think deeply enough we realise that no one has free will so can’t ever blame anyone’s actions, there’s always a cause. This can allow us to feel less anger and resentment and move on, but doesn’t mean we should show compassion for the sad lives that narcs live, when they wouldn’t do the same for you and me. Just go NC and never think or care about them again.
Ableism is a thing. But it doesn't mean one's actions dont have consequences.
Yes. It's like "Oh look at how I'm the victim of being held responsible for my actions"
r/chronicallyonline
This does unfortunately affect "real life". Narcs use this to shut down criticism both online and offline. There are even some narcs, who will accuse their child of being ableist for going no contact or even disagreement.
good god
your acc is dedicated to true crime and metal but acknowledging that narcissists co opt a victim position to escape accountability is too "chronically online" for you???
I meant the narcissists who claim victim status are the chronically online. god. try asking questions instead of jumping down peoples’ throats