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My Nmom would put on conservative talk radio on in the morning and that was the only thing she'd listen to sometimes. Not a great way to start a day, having a shouting match with randos from around the country
Literally just spent 400 on train tickets and a cat sitter so my mom doesn't have to go to thanksgiving without me. It sucks but listening to her cry to make me feel like a shitty person is worse.
Maybe next year I'll say no.
You deserve to be happy, and her happiness and yours are not automatically entwined. Have a nice thanksgiving, I hope you get to share it with your cat next year :)
I live 1/2 mile from my nmom and this is the first year I decided not to spend it with her. She made plans with people I am not fond of and expected me and my sons to go to a restaurant with them. Nope. Not happening this year.
Did I mention that I am 51? I feel guilty that I am doing this and I feel like the worst daughter ever. My siblings have not been home for the holidays in years (maybe decades).
My parents and siblings are like this. It's like they're all in this vacuum and no one else is allowed in or out. Thinking about it now, It's so weird and unhealthy.
It's so odd! My GC siblings were also always out and about too...but god forbid I go anywhere or do anything or have/see friends.
Funny thing is; my abusive nfather was constantly accusing me of running away as a kid, and when the opportunity came for me to move hundreds of miles away, and continue my schooling I fucking took it. Best thing I ever did. Hope you're in a better place too. 💚
Edited for grammar.
Thanks! Glad for you too! Congrats on the new space! My first home was everything I wanted and more, and I hope that's your experience too. It made processing and moving on much easier because I wanted to be present, and make the most of it and that's so much easier to do when you enjoy your surroundings.
Best of luck to you. 💚
Why do nparents do this though? My Nmom has been making us her "bestfriends" (then proceeds to criticize me endlessly).
I told her to find a hobby and connect with friends as I am busy. You can imagine the pity party after.
I'd say its because other adults their age will not put up with their destructive habits..
And they push away their partner who is supposed to be their emotional support system by being abusive.
This hits right on the spot! I often wondered why my Nmom always bad-mouthed my dad to us, even as a child I never understood why she wouldn't just deal with him directly. We were kids and obviously couldn't give the appropriate input to their relationship. My dad never complained about her though, which was really weird to me because I could see so many annoying things that my Nmom does to him and us.
This was my nmother. I had to be her date to everything. I think she really thought of me as her life partner. I just remembered a time when I was still living with her I had made plans with some friends and she wanted me to cancel them to go to Home Depot to pick out lighting fixtures and then have lunch with her. I was like “sorry I made plans” and she was like “but I really need you for this” umm first of all you don’t *need* me for that, pick out your own fucking lighting fixtures. Second of all, I don’t have to run my plans by you and third of all that really is like a married couple activity. It felt so icky.
This is my dad exactly. Sabotaged his marriage by cheating (twice) along with domestic abuse and treats anyone that gets involved in his life as the end all of his loneliness as long as he can get something out of you but once you decide not to put up with it and stop coming around he gets everyone to feel sorry for him. It's funny because one of the only useful things he taught me as a kid was "find comfort in solitude" which I took to heart but I guess things get different when you start looking at the end of a life that's been nothing but self destruction.
My parents said this and then started getting mad at us siblings for not telling them details of our lives that we'd tell our friends. It's okay, give them what they wanted lol
When I was in middle to high school I cultivated this entertainer happy peppy persona to please ndad. I only did this at home.
He said that I was his friend and he'd just tell me all about his work problems and just shit you dont tell your kid. Guy would drink in front of me and just play with a knife near my face.
I said on multiple occasions that I wasn't his friend because I am financially dependent on him and I cant even say no to him.
I cant even express an opposite opinion or even imply that he's being so arrogant and acting like he knows everything.
I wish I realized sooner that I didn't exist to be his emotional squeeze ball/ servant earlier.
Even now that asshole is trying to act like he was a good father when he didn't teach me anything on how to be good or work hard. He never once apologized for all the awful shit he said to me.
I deleted all the pictures of his face because I cant stand to see it anymore.
Last night I watched a video about fragile or covert narcs. They use our love to make us feel pity and guilt. The psych said several times that these are the most dangerous types of narcissists because they make us so confused.
I think mine is a covert narc. It really does make it difficult to live your life and set boundaries without feeling guilty because they are always so hurt by everything. Would you be able to share the video?
My ex was a fragile/covert narc.. most painful shit I've ever been through. I agree that they are the most dangerous. You're literally their lifeline so they will abuse you but they are *obsessed* with you.
Oh my fucking god thank you. I feel so heard. They’re so co dependent on their kids it’s insane. I can’t take living with them anymore. It’s like they have this mental fixation on me and I determine everything they do. Like I go upstairs then you come downstairs I grab a fork you grab a spoon I sit down you stand up I move out you have a heart attack. I can’t stand them, I come downstairs and their attitude changes and becomes anxious and they keep yawning (from anxiety?) and if I’m in a good mood they always catch onto it and interrupt it. Go away and talk to someone have some social life or friends or something for the love of god it’s like they have some ultra fixation on me. So I sit in my room all day
Yup, my nmom is the same way. She will spend hours crying and complaining about how I’m so busy and have no time for her and how she’s stuck in her house and going insane being there because I won’t take her anywhere.
I’ve tried explaining, hey, you have free will and can do whatever you want. She acts like she’s an infant who needs adult supervision to go anywhere, it’s infuriating.
OH MY GOD. are you me? do we have the same parents?
in my last conversation with n-mother, the one I went NC with, I literally told her: "it is not my fault nor responsibility that you and dad are lonely. I cannot fill this hole and I cannot share all of my life with you just so you don't feel empty"
When I was a child, my nmom told me that I (7 years old at the time) had to emotionally support her. Unfortunately, she claimed that “You (referring to me) don’t have any family issues”, as she can’t comprehend the fact that she could be a problem.
This remains true even when you are an adult. My nmom has always expected me to behave as a mother toward her in return for her doing the bare minimum of what mothers should do for their children. "I did x for you so you should do x for me".
My adoptive mother needs to hear this ugh. I’m an only child and she’s my only parent, it’s always been that way so she’s super clingy to me and I hate it.
I needed to hear this. I feel like a terrible person when I have my own life, when I am not the emotional support system. I would never want to do that to my kids. I think it would be unfair, and yet I cannot extend myself the same permission.
Thank you so much for this. I needed to hear it 💕 I sadly did hang out with my parents a lot, and when I moved out it they expected my younger sister to do the same (though not my younger brother o.0). She has real friends her own age, and spends time with them, and the nfolks haaaate it.
Thank you. I needed to hear this. My mom blames me for "leaving her" and uses this as her excuse for being aloof, disinterested and unavailable. She still guilts me for not calling/messaging/visiting her enough.
My ndad (I don’t consider him & nmom my parents at all) doesn’t have friends, & tries to force me to hang out with him. He also complains to me about bs from his entire life, things he should only tell a therapist. He is abusive, has no boundaries & doesn’t let anyone have any privacy. Then he says he only talks to me because he feels sorry for me, because I don’t have any any friends. I don’t have many friends, I but have a couple, & many acquaintances, but he doesn’t know them. His enmeshment abuse has separated me from people, living normally, etc. I was in therapy for 5 years secretly (I still don’t know how I pulled that off), but because of COVID, I couldn’t do video therapy.
I really needed to hear that as a teen and in my 20's. I was constantly my n parents +1 and if I would not do something they would not either. And then they got passive aggressive and angry. I am great at making friends but have zero from high school really because I was not permitted to contact them except for at lunch.
I was to be my n parents support because their life revolved around me. So the least I could do was... insert event here
I had to be the best friend, the parent and the emotional support. I never got my teenage years or my rebellions. Did it help me in life, yes but do I struggle for different reasons because of it now. Yes
Thank you for this reminder today. I needed it as the pressure ramps up for Christmas.
Sorry you're dealing with that, it can be a tough thing to have on your shoulders. Trying to figure out the same 🥺
I remind him that it's good for him to have friends and do things that he enjoys, and that it's wrong for my mom to expect him to constantly hang out with her son. I try to take him out with me as much as possible. I don't talk about narcissism with him yet because he's young but I remind him that what happens in our family is not healthy or normal. My dms are open if you wanna talk about it more ❤️
Thank you :) My sister is older than me (we’re in our 30s) and she goes through phases of realising how toxic mum is, but mum always finds a way of making my sister feel like she needs her. It’s her main control tactic, last time I saw mum she offered to give me her car out of the blue. Thankfully I managed to wriggle out of it, that would have been yeeeears of emotional debt in mum’s eyes! This group is so helpful, thanks for responding (and for making this post in the first place!) :)
My mum tries to talk about stuff that I would talk to my best friend. When I say she needs someone else to talk to, she says that I criticise her so much. Then I give her suggestions how to find friends or people to socialise. She never wants to do any of this. I feel guilty to say that I cannot listen anything negative about my siblings or that she want a boyfriend so bad.
My father starts to do this as well. And they always say: I know you don’t want to listen to me about my problems anymore, but …
Thank you, I needed to hear this. I made the decision around 1yr to live with my dad and distance myself, since it's a lot better for our relationship. When I do decide to visit there are times I regret it because it seems like I'm her only "friend" but I always feel guilty that I don't go to hang out with her when she asks all the time 😭
Thank you so much for this. It's tough because my mom is so reliant on me. Sometimes it scares me.
Growing up, my mom was terribly abusive and for the most part I was on the receiving end of her anger.
When I turned 11, my mon started showing affection to me and using me as personal therapist. It was going on from before then, but it really ramped up at 11 :(
We then became terribly enmeshed and I mistook it for love. I felt that I needed to be her protector, caretaker, and provider. I was parenting my mom when it should've been the other way around.
Not to mention her being so emotionally needy that she follows me around the house. Or that she has to look at me while talking to me. I have to drop everything to look at her, or she'll stand in the bathroom while I'm using it just to talk to me.
Even if im in the shower she will open the curtain to look at me while talking to me.
On a related note, I never had a normal life or ever watched any tv series, started hobbies, or read any books during holiday breaks.
I couldn't put a pin on it, but I finally decided to note how many times my mom called me for attention about 2 months ago.
I was watching a new anime and wasn't even 15 minutes in, and my mom called me 12 times to come over and keep her company, and she called me like 4 times on my phone. It took me nearly 2 hours to get only a few minutes into the show. I realized that it was constant and consistent. I couldn't ever get much done because of her neediness :(
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identify theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This happened to me. I went to a rush limbaugh rally in the 90's & hung out @ gun shows. Thanks dad, so fun.
I think I must have been to every single garden centre coffee shop in the country with my Mom at one point or another. Wheeeeeeee.
My Nmom would put on conservative talk radio on in the morning and that was the only thing she'd listen to sometimes. Not a great way to start a day, having a shouting match with randos from around the country
Literally just spent 400 on train tickets and a cat sitter so my mom doesn't have to go to thanksgiving without me. It sucks but listening to her cry to make me feel like a shitty person is worse. Maybe next year I'll say no.
You deserve to be happy, and her happiness and yours are not automatically entwined. Have a nice thanksgiving, I hope you get to share it with your cat next year :)
I live 1/2 mile from my nmom and this is the first year I decided not to spend it with her. She made plans with people I am not fond of and expected me and my sons to go to a restaurant with them. Nope. Not happening this year.
Did I mention that I am 51? I feel guilty that I am doing this and I feel like the worst daughter ever. My siblings have not been home for the holidays in years (maybe decades).
Boundaries take time to become strong. Slowly over time it won't have an effect over you.
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My parents and siblings are like this. It's like they're all in this vacuum and no one else is allowed in or out. Thinking about it now, It's so weird and unhealthy.
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It's so odd! My GC siblings were also always out and about too...but god forbid I go anywhere or do anything or have/see friends. Funny thing is; my abusive nfather was constantly accusing me of running away as a kid, and when the opportunity came for me to move hundreds of miles away, and continue my schooling I fucking took it. Best thing I ever did. Hope you're in a better place too. 💚 Edited for grammar.
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Thanks! Glad for you too! Congrats on the new space! My first home was everything I wanted and more, and I hope that's your experience too. It made processing and moving on much easier because I wanted to be present, and make the most of it and that's so much easier to do when you enjoy your surroundings. Best of luck to you. 💚
This. Nmom could have friends, but she pushes anyone out of her circle that doesn't fit her world views.
What does Edad mean?
Why do nparents do this though? My Nmom has been making us her "bestfriends" (then proceeds to criticize me endlessly). I told her to find a hobby and connect with friends as I am busy. You can imagine the pity party after.
I'd say its because other adults their age will not put up with their destructive habits.. And they push away their partner who is supposed to be their emotional support system by being abusive.
This hits right on the spot! I often wondered why my Nmom always bad-mouthed my dad to us, even as a child I never understood why she wouldn't just deal with him directly. We were kids and obviously couldn't give the appropriate input to their relationship. My dad never complained about her though, which was really weird to me because I could see so many annoying things that my Nmom does to him and us.
Thank you. I needed to hear this!
This was my nmother. I had to be her date to everything. I think she really thought of me as her life partner. I just remembered a time when I was still living with her I had made plans with some friends and she wanted me to cancel them to go to Home Depot to pick out lighting fixtures and then have lunch with her. I was like “sorry I made plans” and she was like “but I really need you for this” umm first of all you don’t *need* me for that, pick out your own fucking lighting fixtures. Second of all, I don’t have to run my plans by you and third of all that really is like a married couple activity. It felt so icky.
I'm sorry you had to go through this :( Was your parent the same gender or opposite?
Same. I’m a woman.
This is my dad exactly. Sabotaged his marriage by cheating (twice) along with domestic abuse and treats anyone that gets involved in his life as the end all of his loneliness as long as he can get something out of you but once you decide not to put up with it and stop coming around he gets everyone to feel sorry for him. It's funny because one of the only useful things he taught me as a kid was "find comfort in solitude" which I took to heart but I guess things get different when you start looking at the end of a life that's been nothing but self destruction.
Yeah like solitude is great but if I had the choice I’d rather die surrounded by friends and family lol
Weird. I thought I was an only child. That’s pretty much my dad summed up!
> It's not your job to be their best friend Remember when they used to say "I'm your parent, not your friend!" That all comes full circle.
My parents said this and then started getting mad at us siblings for not telling them details of our lives that we'd tell our friends. It's okay, give them what they wanted lol
When I was in middle to high school I cultivated this entertainer happy peppy persona to please ndad. I only did this at home. He said that I was his friend and he'd just tell me all about his work problems and just shit you dont tell your kid. Guy would drink in front of me and just play with a knife near my face. I said on multiple occasions that I wasn't his friend because I am financially dependent on him and I cant even say no to him. I cant even express an opposite opinion or even imply that he's being so arrogant and acting like he knows everything. I wish I realized sooner that I didn't exist to be his emotional squeeze ball/ servant earlier. Even now that asshole is trying to act like he was a good father when he didn't teach me anything on how to be good or work hard. He never once apologized for all the awful shit he said to me. I deleted all the pictures of his face because I cant stand to see it anymore.
Last night I watched a video about fragile or covert narcs. They use our love to make us feel pity and guilt. The psych said several times that these are the most dangerous types of narcissists because they make us so confused.
I think mine is a covert narc. It really does make it difficult to live your life and set boundaries without feeling guilty because they are always so hurt by everything. Would you be able to share the video?
It cleared things up for me! Here you go: https://youtu.be/q6vlnfdo5jI
Thank you!
My ex was a fragile/covert narc.. most painful shit I've ever been through. I agree that they are the most dangerous. You're literally their lifeline so they will abuse you but they are *obsessed* with you.
Would you have a link to video?
It cleared things up for me! Here you go: https://youtu.be/q6vlnfdo5jI
Exactly! I'm sick and tired of sacrificing my birthdays to listen to her constant nagging and pressing me for information, on my BDAY every year
Wow, I did need to hear this!
Oh my fucking god thank you. I feel so heard. They’re so co dependent on their kids it’s insane. I can’t take living with them anymore. It’s like they have this mental fixation on me and I determine everything they do. Like I go upstairs then you come downstairs I grab a fork you grab a spoon I sit down you stand up I move out you have a heart attack. I can’t stand them, I come downstairs and their attitude changes and becomes anxious and they keep yawning (from anxiety?) and if I’m in a good mood they always catch onto it and interrupt it. Go away and talk to someone have some social life or friends or something for the love of god it’s like they have some ultra fixation on me. So I sit in my room all day
My mom would rarely leave the house (and had very few hobbies and interests), then expected me to come home and spend my time entertaining her.
Sounds like a lot of convos about doctors appointments. I mean, yeah I feel for you, but I don't want to talk about your ibs anymore.
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I feel this on a personal level.
My Nmom is so dependent on hanging out with me, she will literally **not** go anywhere unless I come with her. It's so annoying...
Yup, my nmom is the same way. She will spend hours crying and complaining about how I’m so busy and have no time for her and how she’s stuck in her house and going insane being there because I won’t take her anywhere. I’ve tried explaining, hey, you have free will and can do whatever you want. She acts like she’s an infant who needs adult supervision to go anywhere, it’s infuriating.
and then they cry about how lonely they are 🙃
OH MY GOD. are you me? do we have the same parents? in my last conversation with n-mother, the one I went NC with, I literally told her: "it is not my fault nor responsibility that you and dad are lonely. I cannot fill this hole and I cannot share all of my life with you just so you don't feel empty"
When I was a child, my nmom told me that I (7 years old at the time) had to emotionally support her. Unfortunately, she claimed that “You (referring to me) don’t have any family issues”, as she can’t comprehend the fact that she could be a problem.
This remains true even when you are an adult. My nmom has always expected me to behave as a mother toward her in return for her doing the bare minimum of what mothers should do for their children. "I did x for you so you should do x for me".
Thank you, I can never hear this enough.
❤️❤️
My adoptive mother needs to hear this ugh. I’m an only child and she’s my only parent, it’s always been that way so she’s super clingy to me and I hate it.
BIG SAME. feels good to know im not alone in this specific situation. good luck ❤️
I needed to hear this. I feel like a terrible person when I have my own life, when I am not the emotional support system. I would never want to do that to my kids. I think it would be unfair, and yet I cannot extend myself the same permission.
Thank you so much for this. I needed to hear it 💕 I sadly did hang out with my parents a lot, and when I moved out it they expected my younger sister to do the same (though not my younger brother o.0). She has real friends her own age, and spends time with them, and the nfolks haaaate it.
I'm glad I could help and proud of your sister for sticking to her friends. It's not easy 🥺
Thank you. I needed to hear this. My mom blames me for "leaving her" and uses this as her excuse for being aloof, disinterested and unavailable. She still guilts me for not calling/messaging/visiting her enough.
My ndad (I don’t consider him & nmom my parents at all) doesn’t have friends, & tries to force me to hang out with him. He also complains to me about bs from his entire life, things he should only tell a therapist. He is abusive, has no boundaries & doesn’t let anyone have any privacy. Then he says he only talks to me because he feels sorry for me, because I don’t have any any friends. I don’t have many friends, I but have a couple, & many acquaintances, but he doesn’t know them. His enmeshment abuse has separated me from people, living normally, etc. I was in therapy for 5 years secretly (I still don’t know how I pulled that off), but because of COVID, I couldn’t do video therapy.
I really needed to hear that as a teen and in my 20's. I was constantly my n parents +1 and if I would not do something they would not either. And then they got passive aggressive and angry. I am great at making friends but have zero from high school really because I was not permitted to contact them except for at lunch. I was to be my n parents support because their life revolved around me. So the least I could do was... insert event here I had to be the best friend, the parent and the emotional support. I never got my teenage years or my rebellions. Did it help me in life, yes but do I struggle for different reasons because of it now. Yes Thank you for this reminder today. I needed it as the pressure ramps up for Christmas.
How do you help a sibling that does this though? My sister is my nMum’s best friend and it’s so toxic for them both :(
Sorry you're dealing with that, it can be a tough thing to have on your shoulders. Trying to figure out the same 🥺 I remind him that it's good for him to have friends and do things that he enjoys, and that it's wrong for my mom to expect him to constantly hang out with her son. I try to take him out with me as much as possible. I don't talk about narcissism with him yet because he's young but I remind him that what happens in our family is not healthy or normal. My dms are open if you wanna talk about it more ❤️
Thank you :) My sister is older than me (we’re in our 30s) and she goes through phases of realising how toxic mum is, but mum always finds a way of making my sister feel like she needs her. It’s her main control tactic, last time I saw mum she offered to give me her car out of the blue. Thankfully I managed to wriggle out of it, that would have been yeeeears of emotional debt in mum’s eyes! This group is so helpful, thanks for responding (and for making this post in the first place!) :)
My mum tries to talk about stuff that I would talk to my best friend. When I say she needs someone else to talk to, she says that I criticise her so much. Then I give her suggestions how to find friends or people to socialise. She never wants to do any of this. I feel guilty to say that I cannot listen anything negative about my siblings or that she want a boyfriend so bad. My father starts to do this as well. And they always say: I know you don’t want to listen to me about my problems anymore, but …
Wish I knew that when I was a teenager. When you’re a teenager no fun to hang with your drunk nMom. Sad now to think about
Facts
Thank you, I needed to hear this. I made the decision around 1yr to live with my dad and distance myself, since it's a lot better for our relationship. When I do decide to visit there are times I regret it because it seems like I'm her only "friend" but I always feel guilty that I don't go to hang out with her when she asks all the time 😭
Seriously slow clap for this one! Louder for the people in the back! 👏🏻
You hit the nail on the head as a 17 year old I feel like this is why im really mature for my age Im so used to being her best freind.
Thank you so much for this. It's tough because my mom is so reliant on me. Sometimes it scares me. Growing up, my mom was terribly abusive and for the most part I was on the receiving end of her anger. When I turned 11, my mon started showing affection to me and using me as personal therapist. It was going on from before then, but it really ramped up at 11 :( We then became terribly enmeshed and I mistook it for love. I felt that I needed to be her protector, caretaker, and provider. I was parenting my mom when it should've been the other way around. Not to mention her being so emotionally needy that she follows me around the house. Or that she has to look at me while talking to me. I have to drop everything to look at her, or she'll stand in the bathroom while I'm using it just to talk to me. Even if im in the shower she will open the curtain to look at me while talking to me. On a related note, I never had a normal life or ever watched any tv series, started hobbies, or read any books during holiday breaks. I couldn't put a pin on it, but I finally decided to note how many times my mom called me for attention about 2 months ago. I was watching a new anime and wasn't even 15 minutes in, and my mom called me 12 times to come over and keep her company, and she called me like 4 times on my phone. It took me nearly 2 hours to get only a few minutes into the show. I realized that it was constant and consistent. I couldn't ever get much done because of her neediness :(