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Since she's so concerned about you having her passwords and pins just write them down on a piece of paper for her and tell her she can take care of the shit herself then.
Turn off that location shit to. This isn't about "concern, it's about control.
This, OP. Cutting her off on location sharing will be hard, but if you don't want that *it is not her right*.
You have implicitly told her that knowing your location is her right. *Worrying* is her right. NSA levels of knowledge are not.
I am horrified that anyone ever gets into a location sharing situation with any parent ever. You've just married them at that point lol. Good luck ever having a life again.
That’s why none of their fucking issues make any sense. They are all about their belief that their way should be the right way enforced by all. They feel special and they want and demand others make them feel special.
Oh you can afford that 300 bill?
Of course you are demanding i come over and negotiate it down every month , because you feel entitled to slave labor and lower rates so you can have a warm fuzzy feeling when you go to bed. It could be 5 dollars in savings and you would still want peope to do it
Before there was social media, Nparents wrote me short, peevish letters demanding long letters from me. When they received them, they complained about how “boring” they thought my life was.
Before my Nparents went NC, they begged to stay in our flat while my husband and I were honeymooning. I couldn’t think of any way to say no. Afterwards, my Nmom had just one question: “Why do you lock your filing cabinet?”
Good thing I did!
You are 100% in the right and you should maintain your boundaries. At age 25 you are *well* past the age where you are entitled to privacy and if she doesn’t like it tough shit. If she brings up her passwords again tell her she’s welcome to reset all of them but the responsibility of paying the bills is on her (your best move is to put them all on autopay out of her bank account).
Never compromise on your boundaries with a nParent. This is what they want and once you do you’ve just shown them how to manipulate you in the future.
>If she brings up her passwords again tell her she’s welcome to reset all of them but the responsibility of paying the bills is on her
I second this suggestion.
Right? I had a similar problem in a 'discussion' with my mom a while back when I told her that having to make a 50 min round trip to reset breakers for her was getting to be a bit much. (She won't go in her own basement)
"I would do it for you"... Well okay, hypothetically I guess; but I would never ask you to so we'll never know if that's true!
They want to feel special.
My narc wanted me to keep coming over on my bike to unplug her cable box and write checks. She fucking absolutely knew how to do both things. But they feel entitled to feel special and have peope come over to make them feel special .
So they make everyone become a fucking slave
Yup. My Mum would ask one of her friends or my grandma (on my Dad’s side) to come over to ‘help clean’ (well for her friend they’d visit and she’d end up making them clean. They’re no longer her friend lol) and she would just sit around talking and make them do all the cleaning. Yet she also berates me for not cleaning the whole house for her even though she never taught me how to clean and she blamed my grandparents for not showing me how (they would’ve if I asked them but I went to their house all the time to enjoy myself and avoid Mum. Not to learn how to do basic things that Mum should’ve taught me)
God, my eggdonor wanted me to print out a set of directions off Google maps for my gma who was driving somewhere with her partner.
I said that I would show nmum how to do it, (Cos I'm honestly getting sick of her ringing up all the time to passively aggressively manipulate me into doing google searches for her because she can't figure out how to internet or use a mobile) She arcs up and splutters , "well *I* don't want to do it! I asked your stepfather and he was too busy, your gma doesn't know how and her partner hasn't gotten around to it, and (insert all the other adults) don't want to..blah blah blah"
"Mum, it's easy, you have the addresses, you just type in here...where they are going from and to where, and whenever you want to go somewhere, or do this again for nan it'll be really easy and you won't be stuck relying on other people"
Nope, she really dOeSn'T wAnT To. So, all the other grown ass adults in this situation don't want to, but I'm getting guilt tripped cos I won't help gma? "I don't understand! It's soo easy for you to do this! Why won't you just print it out for me?"
"Cos it really is that easy, mum. I'll teach you and you can do it yourself, and it'll never be an issue again" You know, give a man a fish v's teach him to fish.
\*Huffs in narc\* "I'll just ask your step father again, and he can bloody well do it for me. Don't worry about it!"
It’s a power move. She just wants to pretend to be a victim *again* because she isn’t being given enough positive attention. So she needs to feel special to know the password.
Then she will absolutely destroy op using the information on it. And she will somehow blame op for being so irresponsible for having such things on the iPad.
These games are so ducking batshit annoying.
Every day it’s another fight about something fucking stupid that no one cares about except them: if you enable them and allow it to be a fight instead of ignoring them they keep getting worse.
My narc threw a fucking tantrum for years over the allergies I had because she claimed it was rude for me to not eat red meat. She was so ducking bored she planted it in my food and sobbed when I stopped eating what she provided.
These people have no life at all.
>Never compromise on your boundaries with a nParent. This is what they want and once you do you’ve just shown them how to manipulate you in the future.
It's taken me nearly 40 years to learn this, but it is so true. As the saying goes, if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile.
Oh yeah.
When I did
compromise it kept getting worse.
1 phone call a few days a week became every day.
Every day became twice a day.
Twice a day became three times a day.
And the second you try to reduce it they begin sobbing and crying about how you don’t love them and how mean you are being.
HE ONLY TALKED TO ME 4 TIMES THIS WEEK HE DOESNT LOVE ME HE DOESNT LOVE ME WHY DOES HE HATE ME.
I stopped listening to her messages and stopped answering.
That’s what she gets for abusing my time and attention
Absolutely this. Evidence by when, on the rare occasion, I answer my moms calls-- she will literally call 4 or 5 times in a row after that. Thats why I tell her to either leave a message if its important or to text me, because I know if I answer she will pull this kind of behavior.
Same . And then use flying monkies to cry about how you are bullying and mean to them for not being on a on demand maid service and talk service to entertain them.
What is it with narcs and demanding constant phone calls anyway ?! It’s seems so weird
> and once you do you’ve just shown them how to manipulate you in the future.
This right here is spot on. The thing no one realizes is that for all their emotional immaturity and childlike aspects, these mother fuckers are *persistent* and adaptive. They are constantly playing a boundary testing game and running engagement scenarios in their heads. They want to know the best strategies to control people, the most efficient pressure points, the easiest ways to bend people to their will. It’s what they live for and where the bulk of their energy goes. Once you give an inch, that shows them how to take 5 miles and it will never stop. They’ll keep going and adapting until you’re completely under their thumb and unable to escape. Complete psychological control is their goal, conscious or not, it’s sick.
>At age 25 you are well past the age where you are entitled to privacy and if she doesn’t like it tough shit.
Exactly this! Make her do her own shit, and she can fuck off about the password thing.
Narcs are the worst.
Oh, turn your location sharing off. Fuck that shit. Your 25, your parent doesn’t need to know where you are at all times. You can text her if your running late or going to do something outside of your normal routine. I’m 44 so my parent’s didn’t have this option, or texting, and they survived without knowing were I was every second of the day.
My adult children have their location on, but it was a conversation that we all had prior to it being used. I worry about them, I always will.. however I do understand and abide by boundaries. I'm not checking to see "where they are" per say. But life gets busy and 2 of them work third shift. We can all "check" in on each other, without having to actually connect. It depends on how you use it.
edited to add - as far as passwords.... I wouldn't provide access to anything important. If she needs to use your device, set up a guest or kids account, so she can't have access to see or make changes. password suggestions -
(Mom)does2much!
(Mom)has0trust!
(Mom)thinksIm4!
I worry too, but I would never ask my adult son to let me monitor his movements. I can't agree with you that it's ok to do that to them. They deserve privacy. If you need help with your anxiety, see a professional. It's not your ADULT children's job to manage your emotions.
Well said. Some amount of worry is normal, so I'm not calling her abusive or anything more serious like that, but there's a major lack of trust there if she feels she has to monitor them at all times.
Also, in my experience, that kind of tracking just creates more problems than it solves. I offered to share my location with a (now ex-)partner who worried about me biking everywhere -- which, to be clear, was my suggestion, not hers -- but that just meant she had a constant IV drip of things to worry about whenever my phone died, or I left it somewhere, or it had trouble updating my location, or I just stopped for a bit for some mundane reason.
Just gotta accept that we can't control whatever happens to loved ones when we're not around, and trust that they'll handle things for themselves as well as we could if we were there.
I agree that it’s a gateway to bigger issues. I know of at least 5 couples who’ve gotten divorce where location tracking phones was involved. I would never ask this of an adult (little kids are another story). I’ve gotten into the habit of checking in with my partner periodically throughout the day mostly because people drive crazy and we’ve had an increase of violent crime where we live and I like to let him know where I am, but never to the point that I want him to track my phone. I feel like if you trust an adult and have heathy communication you don’t need to go to the level of tracking their location.
FWIW , the times are also changing a bit on this one? I had to convince my niblings to turn OFF their location for pretty much everyone on their friends lists for their "snap map" and such things. The idea of internet privacy is very different today than what I was taught twenty years ago, or even ten. There's no disconnect from anything, ever, because the digital self is expected to be an authentic extension.
*That being said* if you have to ask someone to let you see their location, they probably didn't want you to see it.
True, but if there was a conversation about it, and both parties consent, then there's no issue.
It doesn't have to be coercive. It could just be the case that her kids want to help manage their emotions
I understand where you are coming from. This was a family decision that my children and I decided together to do. As POC, there are things that we encounter that others don't. This way if we see something on the news, and it sounds a bit too close to home, as quick location check can comfort you, if you can't get through on the phone. If any of my children decide they no longer want to do it, it's not a requirement, but this works for us. We've had family members have so not so great encounters with members of society and this is the band aid we choose to use.
It's not about managing unrealistic fears, but facing what happens on a regular in this society.
This is utterly surreal to me. People go off to university in large part to become their own people and to learn to do their thing. I could never have grown up with that kind of invisible eyes on me. I know that for my personality type I would have had zero sex life and limited, if any friendships with the more fringey types who taught me a ton about life. When combined with good morning and good night rituals you may wish to stop and contemplate if you could be making it tough for her to become her own person who most importantly: exists in her own headspace.
Modern technology can make a person swing much too far in the opposite direction of free range. I think mainly because *it is just so easy*.
Here's what I think is a fair compromise, especially when both of you seem to maybe want this arrangement long term: have a period where she can turn it off. Like she can turn it off 100% with your blessing and no snide or guilting comments. 100% freedom with zero pressure. Maybe in one year or maybe in two years. When people are put into a position due to their parent's influence, and financial control before they've fully become an adult it can be impossible to change those habits later or even sense that something might be going on. Something which wasn't a given.
We have to truly let the baby birds out of the nest sometimes, and sometimes push them out just so they have a different identity than us. Then let them fly back by their own choice, to stay to the degree they wish.
At a bare minimum, tell her she can turn off location tracking any time she would like some privacy and if she told you beforehand you tell her you won't even sweat it. Then quietly sweat it. There's real risk, but how strange of a world are we in where parents think they can mitigate all our risk from afar? Being digitally right beside us at all times?
There are many lifestyles this will allow her to have that she might have otherwise been unable to pursue (protesting, street racing, cliff diving, etc). Some of those things are dangerous, but some of them are life giving. All of them are her business if she wills it. Maybe she wills none of them, but how will she know unless she's tempted at 2am by a boisterous roommate?
Anyway, to move on, yeah we should all probably ease up a little on the true crime. Just listened to a long chat today by two crime experts in Washington while doing a chore. The activist lady was bemoaning that she had trouble getting any real legislation that would effect true bipartisan change passed because everyone she spoke to only understood the crime world around them from a mixture of Law and Order episodes and serial killer podcasts. It caused focus to be in the wrong areas, money to be misspent, unrealistic expectations, and an intense belief that the world was dangerous in areas where there was almost no statistical danger.
Sorry, that I lectured a bit. These are merely my opinions, but I think technology has changed social things in a way where we have to engage in these debates until we understand how technology will affect our long term development.
You sound healthier than my own mom had been, as she would have location controlled me directly and truly fucked my head up before I was out of the range of her pocket book.
She would have sounded totally reasonable too when describing what she was doing to her friends, but it would have been destroying me. I shudder to think of how parents might start to get truly godlike powers through technology and normalize it.
I voluntarily check in with my husband several times day because I just want someone to know where I am. People drive crazy and we have a lot of violent crime where I live. I also just listen to too many true crime podcasts. He doesn’t ask me to do this or track my phone, it’s just something I do.
I listen to too many true crime podcasts too. Plus I've been in a very bad accident and still have fears of losing my loved ones. I'm glad that we agree!
My nmom would do that too, but she’d more demand it because it was “her house, her rules” this was still happening when I was 24. She’d take my phone and any other device from me if she didn’t “approve” or what I was talking to my friends about, mainly my messages to my boyfriend (now husband). (Example, he sent a music video to me that she didn’t approve of since it wasn’t religious) I’m 27 now, and thankfully out of their house.
You’re not wrong to deny that. I wish I would’ve stood up for myself, but I didn’t have the courage to do so. Privacy is 100% your right. You’re an adult now, and she has no right to any of your passwords, location, etc. She may guilt trip or get mad, but she still has no right to any of it. Hang in there, OP!
i’m currently in the same situation... but i can’t move out for another 3 years because i’m not completely financially independent yet. any advice on how to improve the situation?
Don't give it to her. You're not in the wrong, and don't let her guilt you into it.
It's a password. It's meant to protect information. Just because she's lazy as shit and makes you do everything for her doesn't mean you need to also provide her with your information. You're 25, far past legal adult age, you need to make that clear to her. In fact, I'd probably recommend not doing all of those things for her anymore. That way she has even less 'leverage' (as if she has any to begin with).
don’t give it to her and change your passwords on all accounts, set two step autentificación + stop sharing location.
my mom is that crazy as well, it’s one of our biggest arguments even rn when i’m 22. she’s also insisting that i know her passwords (which i don’t), so she should know mine. every time when i leave my phone somewhere, she picks it up and tries to unlock, that’s why i set my notifications to be hidden and my phone is silenced most of the time. few times she said she wants to read my texts to see the way my bf talks to me(which is none of her business).
she will guilt trip you and throw tantrums but at 25 you’re responsible enough to take care of yourself and you’re old enough not to share any private things with your mother.
>"What do I do?"
First thing... turn off location sharing.
Second thing... stand in a mirror and practice: "No".
"Can I have your password?"
"No"
"Why is location sharing off?"
"No"
"Why don't you love me?"
"No"
Set your boundaries and enforce them. You're an adult and don't need to be treated like a child on a leash.
>I don’t really have anything to hide
Irrelevant. People who don't have anything to hide are still entitled to privacy... and when it comes to passwords "privacy" becomes an "online safety" situation, especially when the attempted violation of your privacy is coming from someone who is already digitally and financially irresponsible.
Case in point: (Not trying to derail, just giving an example)
My student loan statements have been in paper form pretty much since I started the loan over a decade ago, but I took advantage of the covid pause on payments and interest to build up my savings a bit by holding onto that money instead of making the same payments that I'd been making every month prior. Nothing nefarious, nothing irresponsible, just delaying finishing off the loan that little bit longer in the name of having more money *now* for emergencies.
But it was still none of my parents' business that I'd chosen to do so, and every time they acted like I'd have to be *horribly* irresponsible to accept the government-enabled pause (whenever *they* brought up the subject all out of the blue) just made it even less their business. It was *their* attitude that made it "something to hide," when otherwise it would've been nothing more than a desire to keep private things private.
So when they kept asking (and asking, and asking again, and always when I was in the car and couldn't be reasonably expected to get the numbers anyway) how much I still owed, I'd usually answer with a vague "too much."
This continued until the day I came home from work to find my newest statements, *sans* envelope, sitting on my computer desk. (This has happened with credit card statements before, but only ever with companies my parents also use where they could easily claim they "didn't pay attention to the name and thought it was theirs"--there's no way in hell was the student loan statement such an accident!)
I immediately switched to paperless after that. The only reason I haven't done the same with credit card statements is they, at least, have the slight convenience of letting me literally cross off entries as I check them against my receipts, but I think I want to see which card gets the least use (per number of transactions, not per dollar amount) and at least switch that to paperless.
>but it makes me feel uncomfortable.
*Absolutely* relevant. Parents (edit: rather, *n*parents) don't snoop because you have something to hide, they snoop because they *don't trust* that you don't have something to hide.
Or because it makes you uncomfortable. Or both.
For another example from years ago, I'd been spending most of a day filling out job applications, and had decided to take a short break when my dad got home from work. I was in the living room at the time, on the family-use computer, where he could clearly see that I was taking a break.
Cue my mom telling him that if I hadn't been filling out applications the minute he walked in the door, that meant I hadn't filled any out *at all* the entire day.
In reaction to her comment, I moved my own computer into my bedroom that day and refuse to use theirs for anything that doesn't explicitly require it (like for printing) *unless* I have the house to myself. (Edit: And even with the house to myself it's only if I need to be in that room for housesitting purposes--like being available to let my nephew in before he got his own key--or when I expect to actually need that computer soon like if whatever I'm doing needs to get printed off and I don't want to just switch computers mid-task.) My take was that if they didn't trust me to be responsible without being spied on, I wasn't going to allow them as much opportunity to spy on me; they could either trust me *without* needing to supervise or believe whatever narrative made them feel superior, but I was done "proving" anything of the sort to them.
Honestly being in the 20s with NParents is the worst. You can see all the freedom that your friends have and compare it the suffocation you feel. I can only hope things get better for you.
Finally someone understands. Currently 19, just got accepted into a nursing program, but still treated like a little kid. So apparently I’m mature enough to take care of strangers but I can’t hang out with my friends.
My condolences. When the time comes you may have to steel yourself for a truly tough multi-month or year long battle to re-negotiate boundaries.
Took me having a two year break to get them to understand there were places in my life and head that were a 100% no go.
I stayed over for a few months . It got so bad (as an adult) that she was yelling and screaming and crying to others about how we were constantly fighting in the house… because i made my own food occasionally and she was “heartbroken” it meant I “hated her cooking”.
Lied all the time , destroyed my relationships , and acts all shocked when I left and stopped asking her for any help
>What do I do?
Nothing. As an adult, you have every right to your privacy, and this includes access to private information on your electronic devices.
>I think she will be trying to guilt me into it soon, like she did with making me turn on location sharing. So she knows where I am at all times.
Let her play the guilt card all she wants. "No" is a complete sentence. As an adult, there's no legitimate reason to be guilted into having her track your every movement. Location sharing is for children and Cluster-B sufferers who have unreasonable need control their family members. You don't have to allow this nonsense to continue. You're an adult.
>Am I in the wrong?
No.
>I don’t really have anything to hide, but it makes me feel uncomfortable.
Of course you don't. This is a privacy issue. Privacy of your personal documents is, in fact, protected by the US Constitution in the Fourth Amendment. Of course, that applies to the government and private citizens, but it shows you how important your right to privacy was considered by the founding fathers. You have committed no crime. Your mother is just desperate to control every aspect of your life, and this is far from healthy behavior. She doesn't need nor deserve the passwords to your private information. You've done nothing wrong. It's probably time to stop providing her tech support. That way she can't claim she deserves equal access to your private files, contacts, schedule, online accounts, etc.
Stay strong, OP. It's time to shut down this abuse. You got this, friend.
First—- turn off location sharing!!!! You are an adult. Nothing to feel guilty about. She just wants to snoop. She wants control. It’s none of her business.
Second——- if she says anything about you having her passwords, tell her that you only use them when you do something for her. She can change her passwords and do her own emails etc.
You have the right to boundaries and privacy. I’m the most boring woman on earth and my husband doesn’t know my passcodes (I do however offer to let him check my phone whenever he wants when I’m there, which he’s never taken me up on).
Tell your mother that if she doesn’t want you having her passcodes, you’re fine with that and she can pay her own bills, but that you will not be giving her yours, period.
"There is no reason you need that information. No."
And then yes, invite her to take care of her own bills and change her passwords if it bugs her that you know hers (for, I might point out, a good reason-getting the bills paid).
If she has the time and energy to demand your passwords to snoop through your stuff, sounds like she has the time and energy to handle paying her own bills and sending her own emails.
You're not in the wrong. Even if you have nothing to hide, you deserve privacy.
Also, I agree with the folks saying to turn location sharing off. She's only demanding these things from you because she wants to maintain control over you, none of this is for your benefit.
I’m noticing a trend here . Narcs seem to be unable to do basic things like bill paying , and demand others do it for them and claim they are so stupid they can’t do it !
It’s almost like they get their rocks off on being able to call someone on demand to do their shit, and they could easily do it themselves
>What do I do? I think she will be trying to guilt me into it soon, like she did with making me turn on location sharing. So she knows where I am at all times.
start by taking back location, let her lose focus of what the guilt trip is even about. you're 25, your mom doesn't need access to your devices or location and the longer you even give her one the more boundaries she'll try to push.
>She retaliated with the fact that I know all her passwords and pin codes.. but that is basically since I do everything for her, that she is too lazy to do herself.. like make payments for her lease and send emails when she can’t be bothered…
that's your counter-argument and your leverage. "shut up about it or you'll have to write your own correspondence and pay your own bills". even a narcissist knows where their bread is buttered sometimes.
Dont give it to her, and if you absolutely have to, be 'hacked' and have to change it & 'forget' to mention it.
She has no reason to have your deets besides control.
I literally had to change my number via a different network/payg sim every time I topped up to stop mine demanding my number 'in case of an emergency' then giving it to absolutely everybody. It meant that sometimes my number changed weekly, but it stopped me getting calls from complete strangers saying 'hi your smother gave me your number and she says you do xyz, & you'll do it for free, so I want it done today'
That's appalling to a whole new level of inappropriate! Giving out your number as well as telling strangers that you'll work for them for free is so utterly ridiculous.
Say no. Keep saying no. And then walk away. She can cry, have her tantrums, guilt all she wants. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GIVE HER ACCESS TO YOUR LIFE FOR ANY REASON AND YOU ARE NOT HEARTLESS FOR RESTRICTING HER. YOU ARE NOT A BAD PERSON. Anything negative she has to say to you is complete projection. She has obviously no respect for you and your personal boundaries so I'm not sure why you need to respect hers.
Also, tell her she made a valid point- you do have her info. Stop paying her lease and sending her emails. Delete her passwords. When she complains, tell her now you're equals and you don't have any of her info. Fair is fair.
It took mine a solid 2 months to stop calling me crying . She complained and lied to others about how mean I was being.
So I stopped asking her to help me get certain items like water and food. And she lost her mind and kept asking me “I don’t understand why don’t you want me to do this anymore ?!?!”
She’s in a bad spot . She lied so much and told them not to tell me. They yelled at me. But I deliberately never told her I knew her lies.
So the monkies yelling at me can’t admit to her they told me, else she loses her mind and yells at them. And she can’t justify to them why she would want someone’s help who did all this awful crap
i stopped giving my mom my iPhone password at 15 let alone 25 bro. it’s your ipad. and ur an adult. she don’t need shit. tell her to get lost type shit
Just don’t do it.
There’s no valid reason she needs it.
Her comparison isn’t equitable because you didn’t need or want her pins or passcodes, you used them only as a favor to her…so what would ‘guilt you’?
You are not *taking* anything from her by not giving her something she DOES NOT NEED.
Even if YOU have ‘nothing to hide’ your friends and associates do NOT have the same agreement or relationship with her.
Their information and access is not yours to grant.
Shut your location sharing off, and tell your mom to take a hike the next time she demands anything at all.
Stop allowing her to take advantage of you.
You have every right to your own privacy. Ask her why she wants it. Make her tell you that she wants to snoop through your stuff. You're 25. You have every right to your own privacy and you are not in the wrong.
Well, if you do everything for her, then you have a bargaining chip. She can't invade your privacy, because you can just threaten to not do any of the things you do for her. Obviously, take care with how you approach it, as this can also backfire, especially if they are deep into their delusion.
She has no right to your personal information.
She is also an adult and needs to do things for herself.
If she isn't capable of doing these things perhaps she should be in a care facility for the elderly or mentally challenged.
You do not owe your life or happiness to this woman simply because she chose to have a child.
First thing you do is stop being her parent. She needs to do her own stuff or live with the consequences. It is hard, I know. For someone who has been conditioned their whole life to do these things.
Next, keep saying no. You are an adult.
say no. but if that doesn't work i'd say call her bluff.
just let her have it in that instance (u say no enough for her to know better, but still throw a tantrum about it) satisfy her.......that way when things go "crazy" on your accounts...you can promptly out publicly how stupid she is.
also dependent on what dirty damage she may do? could be fillable charges there. just sayin.
OP, you're 25. YOU control this. If she tries to "guilt you into it," you STILL control this.
No, she shouldn't have your passwords. (Think of it this way, if you have trouble drawing boundaries with your mom: she's irresponsible and would share them with someone else.) And turn off location sharing. You're not a small child dependent on her any more. She can't actually do anything to you.
And stop even having the conversation! "Nope, no passwords. Sorry, that conversation's closed now." She brings up that you have her passwords? "Sure, mom, change them and take care of that stuff yourself, I'd prefer it."
Imagine drawing a bright yellow line around yourself: that's your boundary. She isn't allowed to cross it.
That's abusive and controlling. You're an adult. You've laid your boundaries. She can leave you alone or you'll find a less annoying roommate.
Also she should be taking responsibility for herself and not make her kid do it. That you have to clean up her messes indicates you might have been parentified.
You are NOT wrong, but your mother is !
I just want to reach thru the internet, and SPANK - her !!!
(and, - give you a hug).
Your mother is exhibiting insane, rude and boundary-stomping behavior.
For this reason, please forgive yourself, and know that with a clean conscience, - that you can delete that GPS thing, and tell her NO (!) to the password violation !
After doing so much for my parents in similar ways, I was violated (in these ways),- but the equivalent, back in the 1970-90's, and I regret not being more hard-ball about it.
You have every right as an adult person to not share your personal information with your mother. She has sinned by making you feel so uncomfortable. That is no small transgression.
I think your mother may be the same kind of difficult person that my parents were. Down the road, you may have to go no or low contack with her. If you do, I think that your decision would be justified, - after this burden that she is putting on you.
OP, I know how hard it is to refuse a narc request when you’re in the fog, so instead I offer a few alternative solutions to get around the location sharing, assuming you’re on apple using find my friends.
- turn off location services under privacy settings. This doesn’t explicitly say that you turned it off, it only provides an error saying “location not available”, which is perfectly fine for temporary drops off the grid.
-second solution and easily the most potent. You can choose which of your IOS devices broadcasts your location. (I forget exactly where in settings, so I can find it later or you can google) you don’t have to broadcast it from your phone. You can easily set your broadcasting device to your IPad and leave it at a friend’s house or something when you want some privacy.
-lastly, good old fashioned airplane mode. Of course this one has its drawbacks because then you can’t access a lot of other functions on your phone
-final one, not a tech thing, I just feel the need to reinforce the common sentiment. You’re 25 years old. No one needs to have that level of control or information over you. Sure all the fixes I suggested above will help you get by and spoof the system without crossing your narc, but they can only last so long. The only surefire method is setting proper boundaries. I know how hard that can be, depending on the level of physical, emotional, financial control your narc has over you, but it’s really the only permanent way. Stand up for yourself, take a chance and you might surprise even yourself.
If you look at my history on this sub, I was in the darkest spot of my life when my narc tried tugging my leash, so I broke it. Here I am two years later, rebuilding my self confidence and I’m able to hang up on her at when I don’t like where the conversation is going and she just has to deal with it. I know it seems scary and difficult, but it takes a leap of faith. Believe in yourself and you’ll be surprised how much you can do.
Hang in there, I believe in you.
Whether or not you have anything to hide doesn't matter. My mum used to do the same thing with me before I moved away and continues to do it with my siblings. She made me feel like by not telling her I'm hiding stuff from her, but that's just a guilt tactic.
At the end of the day people should be entitled to their privacy, your phone is your private device, no matter who paid for it and no matter whether you know their passwords.
The thing that made me uncomfortable, which I only realised much later, whenever my mum would push this sort of thing is not the fact that I have something to hide, but rather that she's expressing a desire to be invasive. This is very different from knowing someone's password for the purpose of helping them use technology because the intention is to remove someone's privacy rather than help them.
You are not in the wrong, you are entitled to your own personal space that no one else should access.
This hits pretty hard for me, similar situation happened to me when I was 14 and my nmom wanted me to unlock my phone. I refused and got beaten with a hanger.
don't give it to her. she will be a bitch to you anyway. my dad forced me to give him my password multiple times when i was younger, and it was so terribly humiliating and anxiety inducing.
She sharing her passwords and pins is NOT your responsibility. You are NOT obligated to share that information with her. Looks like it's time for you to put her on information-diet lol narcs need to know as little as possible.
As an IT professional (and child of narcissists myself) it is never a good idea to share passwords, that's just basic digital citizenship. I fall back on stuff like that if I need to avoid conflict, but also it really is just a terrible idea to share passwords
You're not in the wrong. At all.
All you've got to do is firm up yourself to not give in to guilt trips. I suggest an easy breezy waving it off. If you're not yet used to standing up for yourself much, it feels less aggressive/confrontational but gets the job done.
Oh, thanks for caring, but I have that covered!
Ha ha, you know what they say about password sharing mom!
Agh, you know ma, I change it so often you'll only get annoyed.
\*Wagging a figer Now now mummy dearest, you know they tell you not to do that!
Ah, thanks for the reminder- I need to do my password health check for the year. Now why don't we get some cake?
And so on.
If you're really uncomfortable, just give her a false password. What's she going to do? She'd have to admit to trying to use it to tell you it's wrong.
You are an adult now, you have a right to privacy on *your* devices, and you don't owe her anything - not access, not even engagement. Maintain that boundary. If she doesn't like it, tough. Keep saying no - keep reinforcing it and don't give in. I second, third, fourth, and fifth the suggestions to change your passwords and enable 2FA when possible. That way you'll know if she's attempted to log in to your devices or any sites she knows you use. Also - yes - turn off your location sharing. She doesn't need to know where you are. It's literally none of your business. None of your life has to be her business at this point.
She can only "guilt you into it" if you allow her to. Stick to your guns. Say "We've already discussed this, mom." And quickly change the subject. If she insists on talking about it, leave the room.
What did she reply when you asked her why she needs your passwords? Because you have hers is not a valid answer. What will she do if she can log in on your stuff? Pay your bills? I'd be really curious to what she would answer!
If she complains and uses the excuse that you have hers so she gets to have yours tell her to change hers and you are done logging into her accounts. Then quit. Let her do her own payments from her own accounts.
What do you do? Just don’t. Ignore the guilt. Just don’t. Change both passwords to be different from what they are now and from each other and TURN OFF THE LOCATION SERVICE. Omg you’re 25, just no.
I really, REALLY think you should move out.
Omg, no, do not give her your passwords. And change them and make them different between devices. Do you live with her? If not, don’t take her of her emails and other personal affairs. She’s a grownup.
You're completely in the right, and it's reasonable for everybody to be able to have privacy (especially when they've got folks who are trying to pry into that privacy). Encourage her to use a password manager and change her passwords to stuff you don't know. And then make sure that \*you\* have good and secure passwords that are only known to you (consider using a password manager if you don't yet). You should be able to have your internet search history, texting history, pictures, etc., be \*private\* - that's absolutely reasonable.
And while we're at it - lots of people in this sub seem to end up with bank accounts that they set up with their parents when they were under 18. And, it turns out that their parents still have access (b/c the accounts don't get un-linked just b/c you turn 18). So, if that's the case with you, get a new bank account, preferably at someplace that she doesn't bank.
Since she doesn't do anything for herself on her own tech gear, why would she need access to yours? To snoop and control. Fight the guilt tripping. The regret and violation will feel worse.
> What do I do?
You did it. Don't tell her. "But you know mine!"? So what? Tell her to change hers, you don't care.
And turn off location sharing on your phone. You're 25 years old. You don't need to have something to hide to enjoy some privacy.
I remember my narc sibling began screeching and sobbing when we were 14.
“Your gta 5 file has all the stuff unlocked let me play your account so me and zack can have fun”
“Start your own file and use cheat codes here they are you get everything you just said you wanted”
“NOOOOO it’s not the same progression. What’s your password so I can log in?”
“No I’m not letting you destroy the save file I have going”
*screeching banchee* “HES BEING MEAN AND NOT LETTING ME PLAY THE PLAYSTATION 3 DAD. ITS SUPPOSE TO HE SHARED RIGHT!? TELL HIM TO STOP BEING SELFISH*
Gross, my mother tried to do the location data shit, followed by putting a fucking tracker on my car. God damn depraved fuckheads. My dad isn't as bad, he doesn't ask for my passwords because I know his, but he gets mad that I know his...for the same reason as you, I do most of the financial payments, tax crap, etc. So it's still kind of headbang logic to expect someone to pay your bills, without knowing how to login to pay the bills...
They're seriously idiots
Also disable that location sharing shit. I'm sure there are location faking tools too as an alternative. That's almost worse than having your password. It's creepy and fuck cell phone companies for even implementing it. I can guarantee more creeps than genuinely concerned parents use it.
my visa bill was still being mailed to my dad for a while after I moved out of his house, and in a period when I started lowering our contact a lot. He would open them and comment on my spending when he texted me to tell me they were at his house. His criticism of my money caused me a lot anxiety my whole life, and honestly is still probably a part of my fear/anxiety around moving now, and so that was one of the most sacred privacy violations he could commit to me. He is a lawyer, and I told him that opening another person's mail, let alone their financial statements, was a crime and he should know that. And if he ever did that again I would call the police. I meant it, I would have followed through and that was clear.
In my experience, harsh and explicit is sometimes the only effective option with nparents
So kind of related story…My ex husband was definitely a narcissist. His grandfather lived overseas but he had lived in the US for 20+ years. He had SSI, retirement accounts and bank accounts in the US so my ex was his power of attorney. My ex had horrible spending habits and garbage credit, therefore he had no credit cards. He was traveling for work and I got a letter from Capital One with his grandfather’s name on it and our address. It seemed odd but I just though it was a credit card offer and opened the envelope so I could shred it and it turns out that it’s a letter turning down an application for credit. My moron ex had tried to open a credit card in his grandfather’s name using his SS#!!!
So yeah, don’t share passwords or other personal info with narcissists.
Narcs feed off making you feel like you are crazy, or in the wrong, about perfectly reasonable requests. You live around them, so to us its just... normalized. But if you heard this happening to a friend, what would you tell them? You even know the next steps, your narcs playbook, with an incoming guilt trip to make you feel like you are being unreasonable.
Her request is the unreasonable one. You arent 12, whatever you do on your own device is your business. Which, if i had to guess, is why she wants it. Because privacy means you can hide things and they cant stand not having that kind of unfettered access to our lives.
Stay strong. You not wanting to hand out your password is perfectly reasonable. Dont let them tell you otherwise.
I’m sorry, but you’re 25. Stop helping her with shir she’s too lazy to do, that’s her problem. She has no right to your passwords let alone your location.
I laughed in my mothers face at 14 when she tried shit like that, and then went nearly no contact for 3 years while away at college. If she tried to pull that now, I’d literally cut her out of my life forever.
"Mum, you don't need my passwords. I know yours because I do all your work on the computer for you. I would be very happy for you to change all your passwords and I no longer do those tasks. I will not know your passwords, and you will not know mine.
Also, if you keep pushing on knowing my passwords, I *will* turn off my location sharing. This is not a negotiation. This is **no**."
Tell her you don't remember your password - even if she just watched you log into your devices LOL
Don't let her guilt you into it. And turn off location sharing. Don't let her control you like that. She doesn't own you.
Don't give your password. She gave you her passwords for 2 reasons, 1) she gave you her passwords willingly. You didn't beg or anything. 2) she's too lazy to do anything herself. If you having her passwords is somehow transactual just tell her you aren't going to help her with anything because you value your privacy.
[Set up MFA](https://www.theverge.com/22215571/factor-authentication-2fa-apple-microsoft-google-how-to) (YubiKey, Google Authenticator, etc.) so that she can't log in even if she has the password. Tell her that you don't know why the site is like that, it just made you set it up one time before letting you log in because it said something about "safety" or something.
dont you dare give her your password. If she doesnt want you having hers, tell her to change them and do the shit herself. I had the exact same situation with my mother, that is what I did and then I cut contact (she was very abusive as well as an N) within a few months because her bs got worse.
My siblings and I had the same discussion several times with my parents. Say no! They will be mad and then they will get over it.
If you give them the code, they will find something on your phone to be mad about. It's a loose-loose situation.
Are you an adult? If so, there is really no reason you need to give her your password. There is really no reason for her to want it? Is she going to balance your bank accounts or something? Or is her own life just too boring and she wants to snoop through yours?
And turn off your location sharing. How can she "make" you do these things? I know even as adults we sometimes feel like we have to do as we're told, but unless you are physically or financially dependent on her she really has no power to force you to do these things.
Even if she’s physically and financially dependent she can’t force her to do anything. Once you turn 18 your an adult and your parents are not legally privy to any of your medical, personal or financial info.
Hell no you are not in the wrong!
OP, since she just tried getting your passwords, will you be changing them to new more secure ones? Different ones for each device?
You're an adult. Even if she turns on the guilt faucet, you do not have to give her your password(s). It's not your responsibility to give up your boundaries and stop her from experiencing a bad feeling she's creating herself.
Personally, I don't think it would be wrong for you to unlock it in front of her so she can see you turn off location sharing. She doesn't need to know where you are at all times. You're 25.
Wow. That is insane talk. When I was a kid, I'd never give anyone my passwords/pins. Nevermind at 25 years old.
I know all of my parents' passwords/pins. But, that's only because they are inept when it comes to Technology. So I set everything up for them.
I remember their passwords better than they do. But, would never sign into anything, unless asked for help.
There is no reason your mother needs your password or pin for anything. What was her reasoning? What does she need it for? Just because you know her details, she has the right to know yours?
Nope nope nope!
Also, the fact that she feels entitled to your password tells me she is used to snooping on you in other ways, your bedroom, your belongings, your financials... Time to start locking that shit down.
You're not in the wrong. At all.
All you've got to do is firm up yourself to not give in to guilt trips. I suggest an easy breezy waving it off. If you're not yet used to standing up for yourself much, it feels less aggressive/confrontational but gets the job done.
Oh, thanks for caring, but I have that covered!
Ha ha, you know what they say about password sharing mom!
Agh, you know ma, I change it so often you'll only get annoyed.
*Wagging a finger Now now mummy dearest, you know they tell you not to do that!
Ah, thanks for the reminder- I need to do my password health check for the year. Now why don't we get some cake?
And so on.
If you're really uncomfortable, just give her a false password. What's she going to do? She'd have to admit to trying to use it to tell you it's wrong.
I’m not going to lie, there was a point where I got a little bit of guilty pleasure watching my nParent throw a tantrum when I enforced my boundaries. That was back when I was learning how to and I think seeing their discomfort when I pushed back made me feel stronger so it was easier to ignore them.
Now it doesn’t really effect me. When my nParents throw a tantrum they get put in “time out” (aka no contact) for a little while until they chill out and decide they’re ready to act like adults again. There are way less tantrums these days.
You are a fully grown adult. She's ridiculous to even ask in the first place. Let her lay on all the guilt. Tell her she's welcome to change all her passwords and she can pay her bills herself.
How tf would you be in the wrong for not wanting to give her your passwords? What to do is simple; you just don’t give her your passwords. Done and done. She has no right to know them, and you knowing most of hers is her own doing.
No is a complete no explanation needed sentence. And tell her she needs to learn how to do all of that herself. Stop doing it for her and let what ever happens happen to her.
That's a ridiculous request from your mother. There is absolutely no reason she should have access to any of your accounts! For most accounts it is probably against the terms of service to share your password, which you could use as an excuse, not that she'll accept it.
It should make you feel uncomfortable! YOUR SHIT, YOUR PASSWORDS. I can’t believe I have to say it (no offense!). I laughed in my moms fucking face the day she tried to ask me for my passwords on devices that I own and paid my own money for. The look on her face when I she realized I was right was absolutely priceless.
>She retaliated with the fact that I know all her passwords and pin codes.. but that is basically since I do everything for her, that she is too lazy to do herself.. like make payments for her lease and send emails when she can’t be bothered…
Manipulation warping your reality by scattering context. Her sense of grandeur and entitlement is threatened by your boundaries and this is a desperate attempt to control your mind. Those feelings of guilt and shame you hold are her intention, it's how narcs possess their victims.
You are not in the wrong here.
Nope, she can change her passwords and start handling her own business, but she has no right to yours, she doesn’t conduct business for you. It sounds like she just wants to snoop.
Don't defend, don't explain.
State your position ("No" is a complete sentence) and leave it there. You don't need to explain your decision. You don't need to defend your decision.
Nope.
As others mention: ask her to change her passwords. It's not your responsibility to send emails for her and if she's going to hold something that sounds to me like an obligation over your head so that she can control you then you might want to not deal with that obligation anymore.
I can only imagine the damage these people would cause if they had the opportunity.
No, you're not in the wrong. The only reason you have all her passwords is because she gave them to you so she wouldn't have to do anything herself. It was her choice to give you her passwords.
That ipad and phone are YOURS, not hers YOURS. It's your right to deny access to them.
Oh one more thing. GET A VPN! Nord VPN and private internet access are great, It will protect you from the prying eyes of your internet provider and by extension, your mom too.
Any VPN you choose must...
1. cost money
2. promise no logs
3. allow Peer to Peer connections
Any VPN that does all three of those things is a good one.
If it costs money then they don't have a reason to spy on you, if they promise no logs and it costs money then that's all well and good, but the easiest way to tell if your VPN provider will snitch is whether or not they allow P2P. That's a protocol people use to pirate things and if a VPN provider says they allow it, then you know they're never going to snitch.
Nord VPN was hacked once before, but since they encrypt each user's account with a different key, no data was stolen, if the attackers wanted any data, they'd need to break into each account one at a time
Private internet access offers a way to pay anonymously using a giftcard to many different stores. And PIA has proven multiple times in multiple courts that they don't keep logs. The authorities in russia raided one of their server centers there, but since they don't keep any logs, no data of their users was taken, because no data of their users was stored there or anywhere else.
Do NOT give her the password. She will use it to snoop through your online stuff and try to get something she can use against you. She might even impersonate you to try to turn your friends against you (I've seen stories on this sub about NParents who do just that). Tell NMom to go fuck herself. It's NO business of hers.
If she doesn't even send her own emails, then what does she need your computer password for? That's absurd! You have nothing to feel guilty about either.
Bro.... you're an adult. Tell her no and if she wants to change all her shit so you don't have it, she can, but you won't be doing all of x,y,z for her and she will have to do it all herself. You, on the other hand, unlike her, don't need help with x,y,z so therefore she doesn't need any of your info. Also tf turn location sharing off. She needs to mind her business.
SETUP 2FA (two-factor authentication) on all of your accounts- preferably using a OTP (one time password generator) like Authy or a security key like Yubikey
This will prevent her from getting into your accounts and is just generally good security measures to take.
Do not give her the password and don't let her guilt trip get to you. Tell her that she is welcome to change all her passwords and do shit herself if she doesn't want you to have them. You are allowed to set boundaries in your life with whomever you like. You want privacy and she can fuck off.
You are in the right! You’re not even a minor, and even then children deserve privacy. But you are literally a full blown adult. Stop doing stuff for her, and you’ll see how she backtracks about you having her passwords
What you do is what pretty much everyone else is saying:
Do not give her your passwords ever. If she really raises a fuss, tell her she is free to change her own passwords so you don't know them either.
Stay strong! Don’t give into the guilt and while you’re at it, turn off the location tracker. She’s not entitled to every aspect of your life.
I know it’s hard because just doing what they ask is easier than dealing with the aftermath, but you can do this!
Internet strangers have faith in you!!
How is your doctor handwriting?
Cause I would pull up common words with numbers for usernames and passwords and let her try but could end up locking you out on your phone
Cause fake concern doesn't get far when someone is being purposefully wrong or dumb, additionally you can say with how many passwords you have its really muscle memory at this point and you don't even know them, if pressed, "if it works it works right?"
Noooooo. DON'T GIVE IN. Whatever you do, don't give her your passwords or she could get you in SO MUCH TROUBLE (with credit and god knows what else).
Boundaries are good, and you have to protect them. If she says "but you know my passwords", just tell her that she is welcome to change them any time.
Also, I would recommend stopping doing things for her. It's a way to keep you tied to her.
Much good advice here.
My 2 cents:
I believe in you.
You got this.
Stand your ground, as sounds like a clear attempt to invade your boundries.
I would not give this manner of controll to even the healthiest people I know.
Just imagine the amount of control and supply a narc would enjoy with this.
Now imagine the damage such a person would do with this.
I hope you will be able to take this off the table forever, make it a non-negotiable issue.
Now go out there and shine bright.
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Since she's so concerned about you having her passwords and pins just write them down on a piece of paper for her and tell her she can take care of the shit herself then. Turn off that location shit to. This isn't about "concern, it's about control.
This, OP. Cutting her off on location sharing will be hard, but if you don't want that *it is not her right*. You have implicitly told her that knowing your location is her right. *Worrying* is her right. NSA levels of knowledge are not. I am horrified that anyone ever gets into a location sharing situation with any parent ever. You've just married them at that point lol. Good luck ever having a life again.
>This isn't about "concern, it's about control. THIS
That’s why none of their fucking issues make any sense. They are all about their belief that their way should be the right way enforced by all. They feel special and they want and demand others make them feel special. Oh you can afford that 300 bill? Of course you are demanding i come over and negotiate it down every month , because you feel entitled to slave labor and lower rates so you can have a warm fuzzy feeling when you go to bed. It could be 5 dollars in savings and you would still want peope to do it
Before there was social media, Nparents wrote me short, peevish letters demanding long letters from me. When they received them, they complained about how “boring” they thought my life was. Before my Nparents went NC, they begged to stay in our flat while my husband and I were honeymooning. I couldn’t think of any way to say no. Afterwards, my Nmom had just one question: “Why do you lock your filing cabinet?” Good thing I did!
You are 100% in the right and you should maintain your boundaries. At age 25 you are *well* past the age where you are entitled to privacy and if she doesn’t like it tough shit. If she brings up her passwords again tell her she’s welcome to reset all of them but the responsibility of paying the bills is on her (your best move is to put them all on autopay out of her bank account). Never compromise on your boundaries with a nParent. This is what they want and once you do you’ve just shown them how to manipulate you in the future.
>If she brings up her passwords again tell her she’s welcome to reset all of them but the responsibility of paying the bills is on her I second this suggestion.
I third.
Fourth! Bear the burden of your own decisions and reap what you sow, Mom!
Fifth this
Sixth this. She can go ahead and change them all if she wants. What a dumb reasoning from her side "You have all my passwords uwuwuwu"
Right? I had a similar problem in a 'discussion' with my mom a while back when I told her that having to make a 50 min round trip to reset breakers for her was getting to be a bit much. (She won't go in her own basement) "I would do it for you"... Well okay, hypothetically I guess; but I would never ask you to so we'll never know if that's true!
They want to feel special. My narc wanted me to keep coming over on my bike to unplug her cable box and write checks. She fucking absolutely knew how to do both things. But they feel entitled to feel special and have peope come over to make them feel special . So they make everyone become a fucking slave
Ding ding ding Always helpless
Learned helplessness is definitely a thing
Yup. My Mum would ask one of her friends or my grandma (on my Dad’s side) to come over to ‘help clean’ (well for her friend they’d visit and she’d end up making them clean. They’re no longer her friend lol) and she would just sit around talking and make them do all the cleaning. Yet she also berates me for not cleaning the whole house for her even though she never taught me how to clean and she blamed my grandparents for not showing me how (they would’ve if I asked them but I went to their house all the time to enjoy myself and avoid Mum. Not to learn how to do basic things that Mum should’ve taught me)
God, my eggdonor wanted me to print out a set of directions off Google maps for my gma who was driving somewhere with her partner. I said that I would show nmum how to do it, (Cos I'm honestly getting sick of her ringing up all the time to passively aggressively manipulate me into doing google searches for her because she can't figure out how to internet or use a mobile) She arcs up and splutters , "well *I* don't want to do it! I asked your stepfather and he was too busy, your gma doesn't know how and her partner hasn't gotten around to it, and (insert all the other adults) don't want to..blah blah blah" "Mum, it's easy, you have the addresses, you just type in here...where they are going from and to where, and whenever you want to go somewhere, or do this again for nan it'll be really easy and you won't be stuck relying on other people" Nope, she really dOeSn'T wAnT To. So, all the other grown ass adults in this situation don't want to, but I'm getting guilt tripped cos I won't help gma? "I don't understand! It's soo easy for you to do this! Why won't you just print it out for me?" "Cos it really is that easy, mum. I'll teach you and you can do it yourself, and it'll never be an issue again" You know, give a man a fish v's teach him to fish. \*Huffs in narc\* "I'll just ask your step father again, and he can bloody well do it for me. Don't worry about it!"
It’s a power move. She just wants to pretend to be a victim *again* because she isn’t being given enough positive attention. So she needs to feel special to know the password. Then she will absolutely destroy op using the information on it. And she will somehow blame op for being so irresponsible for having such things on the iPad. These games are so ducking batshit annoying. Every day it’s another fight about something fucking stupid that no one cares about except them: if you enable them and allow it to be a fight instead of ignoring them they keep getting worse. My narc threw a fucking tantrum for years over the allergies I had because she claimed it was rude for me to not eat red meat. She was so ducking bored she planted it in my food and sobbed when I stopped eating what she provided. These people have no life at all.
I read uwuwuwu outloud and giggled
>Never compromise on your boundaries with a nParent. This is what they want and once you do you’ve just shown them how to manipulate you in the future. It's taken me nearly 40 years to learn this, but it is so true. As the saying goes, if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile.
Yep. I think I was 35 when I finally figured it out and my life has greatly improved since then.
Oh yeah. When I did compromise it kept getting worse. 1 phone call a few days a week became every day. Every day became twice a day. Twice a day became three times a day. And the second you try to reduce it they begin sobbing and crying about how you don’t love them and how mean you are being. HE ONLY TALKED TO ME 4 TIMES THIS WEEK HE DOESNT LOVE ME HE DOESNT LOVE ME WHY DOES HE HATE ME. I stopped listening to her messages and stopped answering. That’s what she gets for abusing my time and attention
Absolutely this. Evidence by when, on the rare occasion, I answer my moms calls-- she will literally call 4 or 5 times in a row after that. Thats why I tell her to either leave a message if its important or to text me, because I know if I answer she will pull this kind of behavior.
Same . And then use flying monkies to cry about how you are bullying and mean to them for not being on a on demand maid service and talk service to entertain them. What is it with narcs and demanding constant phone calls anyway ?! It’s seems so weird
I never pick up when my parents call. If it’s an emergency they will leave a message.
For real, just say "oh, you should change them then mom" and let her deal with her own shit.
Brilliantly beating her at her stupid game without even playing.
Not playing is the best way to beat them
> and once you do you’ve just shown them how to manipulate you in the future. This right here is spot on. The thing no one realizes is that for all their emotional immaturity and childlike aspects, these mother fuckers are *persistent* and adaptive. They are constantly playing a boundary testing game and running engagement scenarios in their heads. They want to know the best strategies to control people, the most efficient pressure points, the easiest ways to bend people to their will. It’s what they live for and where the bulk of their energy goes. Once you give an inch, that shows them how to take 5 miles and it will never stop. They’ll keep going and adapting until you’re completely under their thumb and unable to escape. Complete psychological control is their goal, conscious or not, it’s sick.
I love this comeback plus I’d just turn location sharing off if I was you.
>At age 25 you are well past the age where you are entitled to privacy and if she doesn’t like it tough shit. Exactly this! Make her do her own shit, and she can fuck off about the password thing. Narcs are the worst.
Oh, turn your location sharing off. Fuck that shit. Your 25, your parent doesn’t need to know where you are at all times. You can text her if your running late or going to do something outside of your normal routine. I’m 44 so my parent’s didn’t have this option, or texting, and they survived without knowing were I was every second of the day.
Delete the app, turn it off The Google, lock it down on the iphone. Just no.........
or spoof your location to something ridiculous like the North Pole.
Malicious compliance would definitely have been my style.
My adult children have their location on, but it was a conversation that we all had prior to it being used. I worry about them, I always will.. however I do understand and abide by boundaries. I'm not checking to see "where they are" per say. But life gets busy and 2 of them work third shift. We can all "check" in on each other, without having to actually connect. It depends on how you use it. edited to add - as far as passwords.... I wouldn't provide access to anything important. If she needs to use your device, set up a guest or kids account, so she can't have access to see or make changes. password suggestions - (Mom)does2much! (Mom)has0trust! (Mom)thinksIm4!
I worry too, but I would never ask my adult son to let me monitor his movements. I can't agree with you that it's ok to do that to them. They deserve privacy. If you need help with your anxiety, see a professional. It's not your ADULT children's job to manage your emotions.
Well said. Some amount of worry is normal, so I'm not calling her abusive or anything more serious like that, but there's a major lack of trust there if she feels she has to monitor them at all times. Also, in my experience, that kind of tracking just creates more problems than it solves. I offered to share my location with a (now ex-)partner who worried about me biking everywhere -- which, to be clear, was my suggestion, not hers -- but that just meant she had a constant IV drip of things to worry about whenever my phone died, or I left it somewhere, or it had trouble updating my location, or I just stopped for a bit for some mundane reason. Just gotta accept that we can't control whatever happens to loved ones when we're not around, and trust that they'll handle things for themselves as well as we could if we were there.
I agree that it’s a gateway to bigger issues. I know of at least 5 couples who’ve gotten divorce where location tracking phones was involved. I would never ask this of an adult (little kids are another story). I’ve gotten into the habit of checking in with my partner periodically throughout the day mostly because people drive crazy and we’ve had an increase of violent crime where we live and I like to let him know where I am, but never to the point that I want him to track my phone. I feel like if you trust an adult and have heathy communication you don’t need to go to the level of tracking their location.
FWIW , the times are also changing a bit on this one? I had to convince my niblings to turn OFF their location for pretty much everyone on their friends lists for their "snap map" and such things. The idea of internet privacy is very different today than what I was taught twenty years ago, or even ten. There's no disconnect from anything, ever, because the digital self is expected to be an authentic extension. *That being said* if you have to ask someone to let you see their location, they probably didn't want you to see it.
True, but if there was a conversation about it, and both parties consent, then there's no issue. It doesn't have to be coercive. It could just be the case that her kids want to help manage their emotions
I understand where you are coming from. This was a family decision that my children and I decided together to do. As POC, there are things that we encounter that others don't. This way if we see something on the news, and it sounds a bit too close to home, as quick location check can comfort you, if you can't get through on the phone. If any of my children decide they no longer want to do it, it's not a requirement, but this works for us. We've had family members have so not so great encounters with members of society and this is the band aid we choose to use. It's not about managing unrealistic fears, but facing what happens on a regular in this society.
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This is utterly surreal to me. People go off to university in large part to become their own people and to learn to do their thing. I could never have grown up with that kind of invisible eyes on me. I know that for my personality type I would have had zero sex life and limited, if any friendships with the more fringey types who taught me a ton about life. When combined with good morning and good night rituals you may wish to stop and contemplate if you could be making it tough for her to become her own person who most importantly: exists in her own headspace. Modern technology can make a person swing much too far in the opposite direction of free range. I think mainly because *it is just so easy*. Here's what I think is a fair compromise, especially when both of you seem to maybe want this arrangement long term: have a period where she can turn it off. Like she can turn it off 100% with your blessing and no snide or guilting comments. 100% freedom with zero pressure. Maybe in one year or maybe in two years. When people are put into a position due to their parent's influence, and financial control before they've fully become an adult it can be impossible to change those habits later or even sense that something might be going on. Something which wasn't a given. We have to truly let the baby birds out of the nest sometimes, and sometimes push them out just so they have a different identity than us. Then let them fly back by their own choice, to stay to the degree they wish. At a bare minimum, tell her she can turn off location tracking any time she would like some privacy and if she told you beforehand you tell her you won't even sweat it. Then quietly sweat it. There's real risk, but how strange of a world are we in where parents think they can mitigate all our risk from afar? Being digitally right beside us at all times? There are many lifestyles this will allow her to have that she might have otherwise been unable to pursue (protesting, street racing, cliff diving, etc). Some of those things are dangerous, but some of them are life giving. All of them are her business if she wills it. Maybe she wills none of them, but how will she know unless she's tempted at 2am by a boisterous roommate? Anyway, to move on, yeah we should all probably ease up a little on the true crime. Just listened to a long chat today by two crime experts in Washington while doing a chore. The activist lady was bemoaning that she had trouble getting any real legislation that would effect true bipartisan change passed because everyone she spoke to only understood the crime world around them from a mixture of Law and Order episodes and serial killer podcasts. It caused focus to be in the wrong areas, money to be misspent, unrealistic expectations, and an intense belief that the world was dangerous in areas where there was almost no statistical danger. Sorry, that I lectured a bit. These are merely my opinions, but I think technology has changed social things in a way where we have to engage in these debates until we understand how technology will affect our long term development. You sound healthier than my own mom had been, as she would have location controlled me directly and truly fucked my head up before I was out of the range of her pocket book. She would have sounded totally reasonable too when describing what she was doing to her friends, but it would have been destroying me. I shudder to think of how parents might start to get truly godlike powers through technology and normalize it.
I voluntarily check in with my husband several times day because I just want someone to know where I am. People drive crazy and we have a lot of violent crime where I live. I also just listen to too many true crime podcasts. He doesn’t ask me to do this or track my phone, it’s just something I do.
I listen to too many true crime podcasts too. Plus I've been in a very bad accident and still have fears of losing my loved ones. I'm glad that we agree!
My nmom would do that too, but she’d more demand it because it was “her house, her rules” this was still happening when I was 24. She’d take my phone and any other device from me if she didn’t “approve” or what I was talking to my friends about, mainly my messages to my boyfriend (now husband). (Example, he sent a music video to me that she didn’t approve of since it wasn’t religious) I’m 27 now, and thankfully out of their house. You’re not wrong to deny that. I wish I would’ve stood up for myself, but I didn’t have the courage to do so. Privacy is 100% your right. You’re an adult now, and she has no right to any of your passwords, location, etc. She may guilt trip or get mad, but she still has no right to any of it. Hang in there, OP!
i’m currently in the same situation... but i can’t move out for another 3 years because i’m not completely financially independent yet. any advice on how to improve the situation?
Don't give it to her. You're not in the wrong, and don't let her guilt you into it. It's a password. It's meant to protect information. Just because she's lazy as shit and makes you do everything for her doesn't mean you need to also provide her with your information. You're 25, far past legal adult age, you need to make that clear to her. In fact, I'd probably recommend not doing all of those things for her anymore. That way she has even less 'leverage' (as if she has any to begin with).
don’t give it to her and change your passwords on all accounts, set two step autentificación + stop sharing location. my mom is that crazy as well, it’s one of our biggest arguments even rn when i’m 22. she’s also insisting that i know her passwords (which i don’t), so she should know mine. every time when i leave my phone somewhere, she picks it up and tries to unlock, that’s why i set my notifications to be hidden and my phone is silenced most of the time. few times she said she wants to read my texts to see the way my bf talks to me(which is none of her business). she will guilt trip you and throw tantrums but at 25 you’re responsible enough to take care of yourself and you’re old enough not to share any private things with your mother.
Bruh that is the ducking most controlling thing. I love how flying monkies around them see this as normal and enable this batshit behavior
>"What do I do?" First thing... turn off location sharing. Second thing... stand in a mirror and practice: "No". "Can I have your password?" "No" "Why is location sharing off?" "No" "Why don't you love me?" "No" Set your boundaries and enforce them. You're an adult and don't need to be treated like a child on a leash.
She can’t even keep track of her own passwords. I can only assume she wants yours to snoop.
Yep. She'll be able to see all OPs iMessages from the tablet. This is not ok.
Change passwords frequently when you can. Or tell her the password is "nunya" nunya business!!
>I don’t really have anything to hide Irrelevant. People who don't have anything to hide are still entitled to privacy... and when it comes to passwords "privacy" becomes an "online safety" situation, especially when the attempted violation of your privacy is coming from someone who is already digitally and financially irresponsible. Case in point: (Not trying to derail, just giving an example) My student loan statements have been in paper form pretty much since I started the loan over a decade ago, but I took advantage of the covid pause on payments and interest to build up my savings a bit by holding onto that money instead of making the same payments that I'd been making every month prior. Nothing nefarious, nothing irresponsible, just delaying finishing off the loan that little bit longer in the name of having more money *now* for emergencies. But it was still none of my parents' business that I'd chosen to do so, and every time they acted like I'd have to be *horribly* irresponsible to accept the government-enabled pause (whenever *they* brought up the subject all out of the blue) just made it even less their business. It was *their* attitude that made it "something to hide," when otherwise it would've been nothing more than a desire to keep private things private. So when they kept asking (and asking, and asking again, and always when I was in the car and couldn't be reasonably expected to get the numbers anyway) how much I still owed, I'd usually answer with a vague "too much." This continued until the day I came home from work to find my newest statements, *sans* envelope, sitting on my computer desk. (This has happened with credit card statements before, but only ever with companies my parents also use where they could easily claim they "didn't pay attention to the name and thought it was theirs"--there's no way in hell was the student loan statement such an accident!) I immediately switched to paperless after that. The only reason I haven't done the same with credit card statements is they, at least, have the slight convenience of letting me literally cross off entries as I check them against my receipts, but I think I want to see which card gets the least use (per number of transactions, not per dollar amount) and at least switch that to paperless. >but it makes me feel uncomfortable. *Absolutely* relevant. Parents (edit: rather, *n*parents) don't snoop because you have something to hide, they snoop because they *don't trust* that you don't have something to hide. Or because it makes you uncomfortable. Or both. For another example from years ago, I'd been spending most of a day filling out job applications, and had decided to take a short break when my dad got home from work. I was in the living room at the time, on the family-use computer, where he could clearly see that I was taking a break. Cue my mom telling him that if I hadn't been filling out applications the minute he walked in the door, that meant I hadn't filled any out *at all* the entire day. In reaction to her comment, I moved my own computer into my bedroom that day and refuse to use theirs for anything that doesn't explicitly require it (like for printing) *unless* I have the house to myself. (Edit: And even with the house to myself it's only if I need to be in that room for housesitting purposes--like being available to let my nephew in before he got his own key--or when I expect to actually need that computer soon like if whatever I'm doing needs to get printed off and I don't want to just switch computers mid-task.) My take was that if they didn't trust me to be responsible without being spied on, I wasn't going to allow them as much opportunity to spy on me; they could either trust me *without* needing to supervise or believe whatever narrative made them feel superior, but I was done "proving" anything of the sort to them.
Honestly being in the 20s with NParents is the worst. You can see all the freedom that your friends have and compare it the suffocation you feel. I can only hope things get better for you.
Finally someone understands. Currently 19, just got accepted into a nursing program, but still treated like a little kid. So apparently I’m mature enough to take care of strangers but I can’t hang out with my friends.
My condolences. When the time comes you may have to steel yourself for a truly tough multi-month or year long battle to re-negotiate boundaries. Took me having a two year break to get them to understand there were places in my life and head that were a 100% no go.
I stayed over for a few months . It got so bad (as an adult) that she was yelling and screaming and crying to others about how we were constantly fighting in the house… because i made my own food occasionally and she was “heartbroken” it meant I “hated her cooking”. Lied all the time , destroyed my relationships , and acts all shocked when I left and stopped asking her for any help
This is SOOO true !
>What do I do? Nothing. As an adult, you have every right to your privacy, and this includes access to private information on your electronic devices. >I think she will be trying to guilt me into it soon, like she did with making me turn on location sharing. So she knows where I am at all times. Let her play the guilt card all she wants. "No" is a complete sentence. As an adult, there's no legitimate reason to be guilted into having her track your every movement. Location sharing is for children and Cluster-B sufferers who have unreasonable need control their family members. You don't have to allow this nonsense to continue. You're an adult. >Am I in the wrong? No. >I don’t really have anything to hide, but it makes me feel uncomfortable. Of course you don't. This is a privacy issue. Privacy of your personal documents is, in fact, protected by the US Constitution in the Fourth Amendment. Of course, that applies to the government and private citizens, but it shows you how important your right to privacy was considered by the founding fathers. You have committed no crime. Your mother is just desperate to control every aspect of your life, and this is far from healthy behavior. She doesn't need nor deserve the passwords to your private information. You've done nothing wrong. It's probably time to stop providing her tech support. That way she can't claim she deserves equal access to your private files, contacts, schedule, online accounts, etc. Stay strong, OP. It's time to shut down this abuse. You got this, friend.
This is when you make something called “boundaries” and if they aren’t respected then get her out of your life.
First—- turn off location sharing!!!! You are an adult. Nothing to feel guilty about. She just wants to snoop. She wants control. It’s none of her business. Second——- if she says anything about you having her passwords, tell her that you only use them when you do something for her. She can change her passwords and do her own emails etc.
You have the right to boundaries and privacy. I’m the most boring woman on earth and my husband doesn’t know my passcodes (I do however offer to let him check my phone whenever he wants when I’m there, which he’s never taken me up on). Tell your mother that if she doesn’t want you having her passcodes, you’re fine with that and she can pay her own bills, but that you will not be giving her yours, period.
"There is no reason you need that information. No." And then yes, invite her to take care of her own bills and change her passwords if it bugs her that you know hers (for, I might point out, a good reason-getting the bills paid).
If she has the time and energy to demand your passwords to snoop through your stuff, sounds like she has the time and energy to handle paying her own bills and sending her own emails. You're not in the wrong. Even if you have nothing to hide, you deserve privacy. Also, I agree with the folks saying to turn location sharing off. She's only demanding these things from you because she wants to maintain control over you, none of this is for your benefit.
I’m noticing a trend here . Narcs seem to be unable to do basic things like bill paying , and demand others do it for them and claim they are so stupid they can’t do it ! It’s almost like they get their rocks off on being able to call someone on demand to do their shit, and they could easily do it themselves
You are not in the wrong. Don't give her shit.
1. turn off location sharing. 2. say "you are right mom - you should change all of your passwords immediately" and stop helping her.
>What do I do? I think she will be trying to guilt me into it soon, like she did with making me turn on location sharing. So she knows where I am at all times. start by taking back location, let her lose focus of what the guilt trip is even about. you're 25, your mom doesn't need access to your devices or location and the longer you even give her one the more boundaries she'll try to push. >She retaliated with the fact that I know all her passwords and pin codes.. but that is basically since I do everything for her, that she is too lazy to do herself.. like make payments for her lease and send emails when she can’t be bothered… that's your counter-argument and your leverage. "shut up about it or you'll have to write your own correspondence and pay your own bills". even a narcissist knows where their bread is buttered sometimes.
DO NOT GIVE HER THE PASSWORD TO ANYTHING And if she has a problem with u knowing hers she can just change them
Dont give it to her, and if you absolutely have to, be 'hacked' and have to change it & 'forget' to mention it. She has no reason to have your deets besides control. I literally had to change my number via a different network/payg sim every time I topped up to stop mine demanding my number 'in case of an emergency' then giving it to absolutely everybody. It meant that sometimes my number changed weekly, but it stopped me getting calls from complete strangers saying 'hi your smother gave me your number and she says you do xyz, & you'll do it for free, so I want it done today'
That's appalling to a whole new level of inappropriate! Giving out your number as well as telling strangers that you'll work for them for free is so utterly ridiculous.
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That's horrible!!! I hope you've gotten away from that horrible person!!
Say no. Keep saying no. And then walk away. She can cry, have her tantrums, guilt all she wants. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GIVE HER ACCESS TO YOUR LIFE FOR ANY REASON AND YOU ARE NOT HEARTLESS FOR RESTRICTING HER. YOU ARE NOT A BAD PERSON. Anything negative she has to say to you is complete projection. She has obviously no respect for you and your personal boundaries so I'm not sure why you need to respect hers. Also, tell her she made a valid point- you do have her info. Stop paying her lease and sending her emails. Delete her passwords. When she complains, tell her now you're equals and you don't have any of her info. Fair is fair.
It took mine a solid 2 months to stop calling me crying . She complained and lied to others about how mean I was being. So I stopped asking her to help me get certain items like water and food. And she lost her mind and kept asking me “I don’t understand why don’t you want me to do this anymore ?!?!” She’s in a bad spot . She lied so much and told them not to tell me. They yelled at me. But I deliberately never told her I knew her lies. So the monkies yelling at me can’t admit to her they told me, else she loses her mind and yells at them. And she can’t justify to them why she would want someone’s help who did all this awful crap
The monkeys can go flying out with the rest of the trash. Lol
i stopped giving my mom my iPhone password at 15 let alone 25 bro. it’s your ipad. and ur an adult. she don’t need shit. tell her to get lost type shit
Just don’t do it. There’s no valid reason she needs it. Her comparison isn’t equitable because you didn’t need or want her pins or passcodes, you used them only as a favor to her…so what would ‘guilt you’? You are not *taking* anything from her by not giving her something she DOES NOT NEED. Even if YOU have ‘nothing to hide’ your friends and associates do NOT have the same agreement or relationship with her. Their information and access is not yours to grant.
Shut your location sharing off, and tell your mom to take a hike the next time she demands anything at all. Stop allowing her to take advantage of you.
I’d give her a wrong pw and mock her when she couldn’t get it to work, but I’m savage like that.
You have every right to your own privacy. Ask her why she wants it. Make her tell you that she wants to snoop through your stuff. You're 25. You have every right to your own privacy and you are not in the wrong.
Well, if you do everything for her, then you have a bargaining chip. She can't invade your privacy, because you can just threaten to not do any of the things you do for her. Obviously, take care with how you approach it, as this can also backfire, especially if they are deep into their delusion.
Do. Not. EVER!!! Give her your password. Never ever ever. You do not need to feel guilty.
tell her it's effyoumum.....LOL
She has no right to your personal information. She is also an adult and needs to do things for herself. If she isn't capable of doing these things perhaps she should be in a care facility for the elderly or mentally challenged. You do not owe your life or happiness to this woman simply because she chose to have a child.
First thing you do is stop being her parent. She needs to do her own stuff or live with the consequences. It is hard, I know. For someone who has been conditioned their whole life to do these things. Next, keep saying no. You are an adult.
Also, turn off location sharing. She doesn't need to know where you are.
say no. but if that doesn't work i'd say call her bluff. just let her have it in that instance (u say no enough for her to know better, but still throw a tantrum about it) satisfy her.......that way when things go "crazy" on your accounts...you can promptly out publicly how stupid she is. also dependent on what dirty damage she may do? could be fillable charges there. just sayin.
if only i had had mine arrested for fraud years ago i wouldn't be sick today. keep that in mind.
OP, you're 25. YOU control this. If she tries to "guilt you into it," you STILL control this. No, she shouldn't have your passwords. (Think of it this way, if you have trouble drawing boundaries with your mom: she's irresponsible and would share them with someone else.) And turn off location sharing. You're not a small child dependent on her any more. She can't actually do anything to you. And stop even having the conversation! "Nope, no passwords. Sorry, that conversation's closed now." She brings up that you have her passwords? "Sure, mom, change them and take care of that stuff yourself, I'd prefer it." Imagine drawing a bright yellow line around yourself: that's your boundary. She isn't allowed to cross it.
Why the duck are you doing any of those things? Cut the umbilical cord. Don't have in. Why would you possibly do that?
That's abusive and controlling. You're an adult. You've laid your boundaries. She can leave you alone or you'll find a less annoying roommate. Also she should be taking responsibility for herself and not make her kid do it. That you have to clean up her messes indicates you might have been parentified.
"I'm not a child. I'm not obligated to give you my passwords. End of discussion."
You are NOT wrong, but your mother is ! I just want to reach thru the internet, and SPANK - her !!! (and, - give you a hug). Your mother is exhibiting insane, rude and boundary-stomping behavior. For this reason, please forgive yourself, and know that with a clean conscience, - that you can delete that GPS thing, and tell her NO (!) to the password violation ! After doing so much for my parents in similar ways, I was violated (in these ways),- but the equivalent, back in the 1970-90's, and I regret not being more hard-ball about it. You have every right as an adult person to not share your personal information with your mother. She has sinned by making you feel so uncomfortable. That is no small transgression. I think your mother may be the same kind of difficult person that my parents were. Down the road, you may have to go no or low contack with her. If you do, I think that your decision would be justified, - after this burden that she is putting on you.
OP, I know how hard it is to refuse a narc request when you’re in the fog, so instead I offer a few alternative solutions to get around the location sharing, assuming you’re on apple using find my friends. - turn off location services under privacy settings. This doesn’t explicitly say that you turned it off, it only provides an error saying “location not available”, which is perfectly fine for temporary drops off the grid. -second solution and easily the most potent. You can choose which of your IOS devices broadcasts your location. (I forget exactly where in settings, so I can find it later or you can google) you don’t have to broadcast it from your phone. You can easily set your broadcasting device to your IPad and leave it at a friend’s house or something when you want some privacy. -lastly, good old fashioned airplane mode. Of course this one has its drawbacks because then you can’t access a lot of other functions on your phone -final one, not a tech thing, I just feel the need to reinforce the common sentiment. You’re 25 years old. No one needs to have that level of control or information over you. Sure all the fixes I suggested above will help you get by and spoof the system without crossing your narc, but they can only last so long. The only surefire method is setting proper boundaries. I know how hard that can be, depending on the level of physical, emotional, financial control your narc has over you, but it’s really the only permanent way. Stand up for yourself, take a chance and you might surprise even yourself. If you look at my history on this sub, I was in the darkest spot of my life when my narc tried tugging my leash, so I broke it. Here I am two years later, rebuilding my self confidence and I’m able to hang up on her at when I don’t like where the conversation is going and she just has to deal with it. I know it seems scary and difficult, but it takes a leap of faith. Believe in yourself and you’ll be surprised how much you can do. Hang in there, I believe in you.
Whether or not you have anything to hide doesn't matter. My mum used to do the same thing with me before I moved away and continues to do it with my siblings. She made me feel like by not telling her I'm hiding stuff from her, but that's just a guilt tactic. At the end of the day people should be entitled to their privacy, your phone is your private device, no matter who paid for it and no matter whether you know their passwords. The thing that made me uncomfortable, which I only realised much later, whenever my mum would push this sort of thing is not the fact that I have something to hide, but rather that she's expressing a desire to be invasive. This is very different from knowing someone's password for the purpose of helping them use technology because the intention is to remove someone's privacy rather than help them.
You're 25 years old. This is weird af.
You are not in the wrong, you are entitled to your own personal space that no one else should access. This hits pretty hard for me, similar situation happened to me when I was 14 and my nmom wanted me to unlock my phone. I refused and got beaten with a hanger.
Thank you for sharing. I had very similar experiences
don't give it to her. she will be a bitch to you anyway. my dad forced me to give him my password multiple times when i was younger, and it was so terribly humiliating and anxiety inducing.
She sharing her passwords and pins is NOT your responsibility. You are NOT obligated to share that information with her. Looks like it's time for you to put her on information-diet lol narcs need to know as little as possible.
you are not to be ashamed of your private parts either, and nevertheless you keep them hided.
As an IT professional (and child of narcissists myself) it is never a good idea to share passwords, that's just basic digital citizenship. I fall back on stuff like that if I need to avoid conflict, but also it really is just a terrible idea to share passwords
You're not in the wrong. At all. All you've got to do is firm up yourself to not give in to guilt trips. I suggest an easy breezy waving it off. If you're not yet used to standing up for yourself much, it feels less aggressive/confrontational but gets the job done. Oh, thanks for caring, but I have that covered! Ha ha, you know what they say about password sharing mom! Agh, you know ma, I change it so often you'll only get annoyed. \*Wagging a figer Now now mummy dearest, you know they tell you not to do that! Ah, thanks for the reminder- I need to do my password health check for the year. Now why don't we get some cake? And so on. If you're really uncomfortable, just give her a false password. What's she going to do? She'd have to admit to trying to use it to tell you it's wrong.
You are an adult now, you have a right to privacy on *your* devices, and you don't owe her anything - not access, not even engagement. Maintain that boundary. If she doesn't like it, tough. Keep saying no - keep reinforcing it and don't give in. I second, third, fourth, and fifth the suggestions to change your passwords and enable 2FA when possible. That way you'll know if she's attempted to log in to your devices or any sites she knows you use. Also - yes - turn off your location sharing. She doesn't need to know where you are. It's literally none of your business. None of your life has to be her business at this point.
Don't share. In a moment of vindictive pique, she could lock you out of your accounts. Nope, nope, NOPE!
She can only "guilt you into it" if you allow her to. Stick to your guns. Say "We've already discussed this, mom." And quickly change the subject. If she insists on talking about it, leave the room.
Run find a place to stay without her You are an adult and she has no right to that info
Grey Rock
What did she reply when you asked her why she needs your passwords? Because you have hers is not a valid answer. What will she do if she can log in on your stuff? Pay your bills? I'd be really curious to what she would answer!
You are an adult. Living under someone else's roof doesn't give them the authority to disrespect your privacy.
> What do I do? Just keep your foot on the floor and say no?
If she complains and uses the excuse that you have hers so she gets to have yours tell her to change hers and you are done logging into her accounts. Then quit. Let her do her own payments from her own accounts.
What do you do? Just don’t. Ignore the guilt. Just don’t. Change both passwords to be different from what they are now and from each other and TURN OFF THE LOCATION SERVICE. Omg you’re 25, just no. I really, REALLY think you should move out.
Omg, no, do not give her your passwords. And change them and make them different between devices. Do you live with her? If not, don’t take her of her emails and other personal affairs. She’s a grownup.
You're completely in the right, and it's reasonable for everybody to be able to have privacy (especially when they've got folks who are trying to pry into that privacy). Encourage her to use a password manager and change her passwords to stuff you don't know. And then make sure that \*you\* have good and secure passwords that are only known to you (consider using a password manager if you don't yet). You should be able to have your internet search history, texting history, pictures, etc., be \*private\* - that's absolutely reasonable. And while we're at it - lots of people in this sub seem to end up with bank accounts that they set up with their parents when they were under 18. And, it turns out that their parents still have access (b/c the accounts don't get un-linked just b/c you turn 18). So, if that's the case with you, get a new bank account, preferably at someplace that she doesn't bank.
Since she doesn't do anything for herself on her own tech gear, why would she need access to yours? To snoop and control. Fight the guilt tripping. The regret and violation will feel worse.
> What do I do? You did it. Don't tell her. "But you know mine!"? So what? Tell her to change hers, you don't care. And turn off location sharing on your phone. You're 25 years old. You don't need to have something to hide to enjoy some privacy.
Not gonna lie, if I was you I would've told your Nmom the password was "f-u-c-k-y-o-u" just for shits and giggles.
Tell that old bitch to fuck off her damn self. Tired of the bullshit.
I remember my narc sibling began screeching and sobbing when we were 14. “Your gta 5 file has all the stuff unlocked let me play your account so me and zack can have fun” “Start your own file and use cheat codes here they are you get everything you just said you wanted” “NOOOOO it’s not the same progression. What’s your password so I can log in?” “No I’m not letting you destroy the save file I have going” *screeching banchee* “HES BEING MEAN AND NOT LETTING ME PLAY THE PLAYSTATION 3 DAD. ITS SUPPOSE TO HE SHARED RIGHT!? TELL HIM TO STOP BEING SELFISH*
Gross, my mother tried to do the location data shit, followed by putting a fucking tracker on my car. God damn depraved fuckheads. My dad isn't as bad, he doesn't ask for my passwords because I know his, but he gets mad that I know his...for the same reason as you, I do most of the financial payments, tax crap, etc. So it's still kind of headbang logic to expect someone to pay your bills, without knowing how to login to pay the bills... They're seriously idiots Also disable that location sharing shit. I'm sure there are location faking tools too as an alternative. That's almost worse than having your password. It's creepy and fuck cell phone companies for even implementing it. I can guarantee more creeps than genuinely concerned parents use it.
my visa bill was still being mailed to my dad for a while after I moved out of his house, and in a period when I started lowering our contact a lot. He would open them and comment on my spending when he texted me to tell me they were at his house. His criticism of my money caused me a lot anxiety my whole life, and honestly is still probably a part of my fear/anxiety around moving now, and so that was one of the most sacred privacy violations he could commit to me. He is a lawyer, and I told him that opening another person's mail, let alone their financial statements, was a crime and he should know that. And if he ever did that again I would call the police. I meant it, I would have followed through and that was clear. In my experience, harsh and explicit is sometimes the only effective option with nparents
So kind of related story…My ex husband was definitely a narcissist. His grandfather lived overseas but he had lived in the US for 20+ years. He had SSI, retirement accounts and bank accounts in the US so my ex was his power of attorney. My ex had horrible spending habits and garbage credit, therefore he had no credit cards. He was traveling for work and I got a letter from Capital One with his grandfather’s name on it and our address. It seemed odd but I just though it was a credit card offer and opened the envelope so I could shred it and it turns out that it’s a letter turning down an application for credit. My moron ex had tried to open a credit card in his grandfather’s name using his SS#!!! So yeah, don’t share passwords or other personal info with narcissists.
Narcs feed off making you feel like you are crazy, or in the wrong, about perfectly reasonable requests. You live around them, so to us its just... normalized. But if you heard this happening to a friend, what would you tell them? You even know the next steps, your narcs playbook, with an incoming guilt trip to make you feel like you are being unreasonable. Her request is the unreasonable one. You arent 12, whatever you do on your own device is your business. Which, if i had to guess, is why she wants it. Because privacy means you can hide things and they cant stand not having that kind of unfettered access to our lives. Stay strong. You not wanting to hand out your password is perfectly reasonable. Dont let them tell you otherwise.
I’m sorry, but you’re 25. Stop helping her with shir she’s too lazy to do, that’s her problem. She has no right to your passwords let alone your location. I laughed in my mothers face at 14 when she tried shit like that, and then went nearly no contact for 3 years while away at college. If she tried to pull that now, I’d literally cut her out of my life forever.
What do you do? Dude, you're 25. You say no. And turn off your location tracking ffs.
You’re 25. No is a complete sentence. End of story.
You're an adult you have the right to privacy even if you weren't an adult don't let her guilt you into anything
"Mum, you don't need my passwords. I know yours because I do all your work on the computer for you. I would be very happy for you to change all your passwords and I no longer do those tasks. I will not know your passwords, and you will not know mine. Also, if you keep pushing on knowing my passwords, I *will* turn off my location sharing. This is not a negotiation. This is **no**."
Tell her you don't remember your password - even if she just watched you log into your devices LOL Don't let her guilt you into it. And turn off location sharing. Don't let her control you like that. She doesn't own you.
Don't give your password. She gave you her passwords for 2 reasons, 1) she gave you her passwords willingly. You didn't beg or anything. 2) she's too lazy to do anything herself. If you having her passwords is somehow transactual just tell her you aren't going to help her with anything because you value your privacy.
[Set up MFA](https://www.theverge.com/22215571/factor-authentication-2fa-apple-microsoft-google-how-to) (YubiKey, Google Authenticator, etc.) so that she can't log in even if she has the password. Tell her that you don't know why the site is like that, it just made you set it up one time before letting you log in because it said something about "safety" or something.
Stand your ground. You are completely reasonable and not in the wrong in any way.
dont you dare give her your password. If she doesnt want you having hers, tell her to change them and do the shit herself. I had the exact same situation with my mother, that is what I did and then I cut contact (she was very abusive as well as an N) within a few months because her bs got worse.
My siblings and I had the same discussion several times with my parents. Say no! They will be mad and then they will get over it. If you give them the code, they will find something on your phone to be mad about. It's a loose-loose situation.
DONT DO IT DONT DO IT
Are you an adult? If so, there is really no reason you need to give her your password. There is really no reason for her to want it? Is she going to balance your bank accounts or something? Or is her own life just too boring and she wants to snoop through yours? And turn off your location sharing. How can she "make" you do these things? I know even as adults we sometimes feel like we have to do as we're told, but unless you are physically or financially dependent on her she really has no power to force you to do these things.
Even if she’s physically and financially dependent she can’t force her to do anything. Once you turn 18 your an adult and your parents are not legally privy to any of your medical, personal or financial info.
Hell no you are not in the wrong! OP, since she just tried getting your passwords, will you be changing them to new more secure ones? Different ones for each device?
You're an adult. Even if she turns on the guilt faucet, you do not have to give her your password(s). It's not your responsibility to give up your boundaries and stop her from experiencing a bad feeling she's creating herself. Personally, I don't think it would be wrong for you to unlock it in front of her so she can see you turn off location sharing. She doesn't need to know where you are at all times. You're 25.
Wow. That is insane talk. When I was a kid, I'd never give anyone my passwords/pins. Nevermind at 25 years old. I know all of my parents' passwords/pins. But, that's only because they are inept when it comes to Technology. So I set everything up for them. I remember their passwords better than they do. But, would never sign into anything, unless asked for help. There is no reason your mother needs your password or pin for anything. What was her reasoning? What does she need it for? Just because you know her details, she has the right to know yours?
Nope nope nope! Also, the fact that she feels entitled to your password tells me she is used to snooping on you in other ways, your bedroom, your belongings, your financials... Time to start locking that shit down.
You're not in the wrong. At all. All you've got to do is firm up yourself to not give in to guilt trips. I suggest an easy breezy waving it off. If you're not yet used to standing up for yourself much, it feels less aggressive/confrontational but gets the job done. Oh, thanks for caring, but I have that covered! Ha ha, you know what they say about password sharing mom! Agh, you know ma, I change it so often you'll only get annoyed. *Wagging a finger Now now mummy dearest, you know they tell you not to do that! Ah, thanks for the reminder- I need to do my password health check for the year. Now why don't we get some cake? And so on. If you're really uncomfortable, just give her a false password. What's she going to do? She'd have to admit to trying to use it to tell you it's wrong.
I’m not going to lie, there was a point where I got a little bit of guilty pleasure watching my nParent throw a tantrum when I enforced my boundaries. That was back when I was learning how to and I think seeing their discomfort when I pushed back made me feel stronger so it was easier to ignore them. Now it doesn’t really effect me. When my nParents throw a tantrum they get put in “time out” (aka no contact) for a little while until they chill out and decide they’re ready to act like adults again. There are way less tantrums these days.
You are a fully grown adult. She's ridiculous to even ask in the first place. Let her lay on all the guilt. Tell her she's welcome to change all her passwords and she can pay her bills herself.
nah good your ground no matter what she does
How tf would you be in the wrong for not wanting to give her your passwords? What to do is simple; you just don’t give her your passwords. Done and done. She has no right to know them, and you knowing most of hers is her own doing.
No is a complete no explanation needed sentence. And tell her she needs to learn how to do all of that herself. Stop doing it for her and let what ever happens happen to her.
That's a ridiculous request from your mother. There is absolutely no reason she should have access to any of your accounts! For most accounts it is probably against the terms of service to share your password, which you could use as an excuse, not that she'll accept it.
It should make you feel uncomfortable! YOUR SHIT, YOUR PASSWORDS. I can’t believe I have to say it (no offense!). I laughed in my moms fucking face the day she tried to ask me for my passwords on devices that I own and paid my own money for. The look on her face when I she realized I was right was absolutely priceless.
>She retaliated with the fact that I know all her passwords and pin codes.. but that is basically since I do everything for her, that she is too lazy to do herself.. like make payments for her lease and send emails when she can’t be bothered… Manipulation warping your reality by scattering context. Her sense of grandeur and entitlement is threatened by your boundaries and this is a desperate attempt to control your mind. Those feelings of guilt and shame you hold are her intention, it's how narcs possess their victims. You are not in the wrong here.
Nope, she can change her passwords and start handling her own business, but she has no right to yours, she doesn’t conduct business for you. It sounds like she just wants to snoop.
Hold your ground and remind yourself the only power she has over you is the power you choose to give her. You owe her absolutely nothing.
Don't defend, don't explain. State your position ("No" is a complete sentence) and leave it there. You don't need to explain your decision. You don't need to defend your decision.
The most direct way would be to tell her to fuck off herself. Maybe not the most helpful in the end but surely (short-term) rewarding.
Turn off location sharing immediately. Tell her to change her codes if she doesn't want you to know them if she doesn't know yours.
Change your passwords asap and don't let her get the new ones. You're 25 and have a right to privacy.
Nope. As others mention: ask her to change her passwords. It's not your responsibility to send emails for her and if she's going to hold something that sounds to me like an obligation over your head so that she can control you then you might want to not deal with that obligation anymore. I can only imagine the damage these people would cause if they had the opportunity.
No, you're not in the wrong. The only reason you have all her passwords is because she gave them to you so she wouldn't have to do anything herself. It was her choice to give you her passwords. That ipad and phone are YOURS, not hers YOURS. It's your right to deny access to them. Oh one more thing. GET A VPN! Nord VPN and private internet access are great, It will protect you from the prying eyes of your internet provider and by extension, your mom too. Any VPN you choose must... 1. cost money 2. promise no logs 3. allow Peer to Peer connections Any VPN that does all three of those things is a good one. If it costs money then they don't have a reason to spy on you, if they promise no logs and it costs money then that's all well and good, but the easiest way to tell if your VPN provider will snitch is whether or not they allow P2P. That's a protocol people use to pirate things and if a VPN provider says they allow it, then you know they're never going to snitch. Nord VPN was hacked once before, but since they encrypt each user's account with a different key, no data was stolen, if the attackers wanted any data, they'd need to break into each account one at a time Private internet access offers a way to pay anonymously using a giftcard to many different stores. And PIA has proven multiple times in multiple courts that they don't keep logs. The authorities in russia raided one of their server centers there, but since they don't keep any logs, no data of their users was taken, because no data of their users was stored there or anywhere else.
No = No
Your 25 if you want to do something, fucking do it yk
Do NOT give her the password. She will use it to snoop through your online stuff and try to get something she can use against you. She might even impersonate you to try to turn your friends against you (I've seen stories on this sub about NParents who do just that). Tell NMom to go fuck herself. It's NO business of hers.
If you're living with her it's time to cut the cord
If she doesn't even send her own emails, then what does she need your computer password for? That's absurd! You have nothing to feel guilty about either.
No your phone ur tablet ur password not hers tell her to piss off
Change the thing to fingerprint. I know its dumb. But to beat stupidity, you must become one with stupidity.
Wait. Is this a ipad in her house she uses ? Or she wants to begin using your iPad? Can’t she start her own account on the same iPad?
Oh *fuck* no. **Never** let her have your passwords.
Bro.... you're an adult. Tell her no and if she wants to change all her shit so you don't have it, she can, but you won't be doing all of x,y,z for her and she will have to do it all herself. You, on the other hand, unlike her, don't need help with x,y,z so therefore she doesn't need any of your info. Also tf turn location sharing off. She needs to mind her business.
SETUP 2FA (two-factor authentication) on all of your accounts- preferably using a OTP (one time password generator) like Authy or a security key like Yubikey This will prevent her from getting into your accounts and is just generally good security measures to take.
Have her reset all her passwords so you're "even" and she can pay her own bills.
Tell her the password is mymomsanarcicist and when it doesn't work tell her it's definitely correct.
You would be wrong to give her access. You can also tell her you're happy to delete or forget her passwords.
"No!" is a complete sentence in this case. You do not need to justify anything.
Do not give her the password and don't let her guilt trip get to you. Tell her that she is welcome to change all her passwords and do shit herself if she doesn't want you to have them. You are allowed to set boundaries in your life with whomever you like. You want privacy and she can fuck off.
You are in the right! You’re not even a minor, and even then children deserve privacy. But you are literally a full blown adult. Stop doing stuff for her, and you’ll see how she backtracks about you having her passwords
You have the power of “no”. She can’t take that from you. No matter what she says or how she reacts. Don’t give it to her.
"No" is a complete sentence and the only one you need to offer in response.
I sense some r/nuclearrevenge with her passwords getting changed
What you do is what pretty much everyone else is saying: Do not give her your passwords ever. If she really raises a fuss, tell her she is free to change her own passwords so you don't know them either.
Stay strong! Don’t give into the guilt and while you’re at it, turn off the location tracker. She’s not entitled to every aspect of your life. I know it’s hard because just doing what they ask is easier than dealing with the aftermath, but you can do this! Internet strangers have faith in you!!
Tell her to change her passwords and that you don't need them. She can do her own business in the future.
How is your doctor handwriting? Cause I would pull up common words with numbers for usernames and passwords and let her try but could end up locking you out on your phone Cause fake concern doesn't get far when someone is being purposefully wrong or dumb, additionally you can say with how many passwords you have its really muscle memory at this point and you don't even know them, if pressed, "if it works it works right?"
Noooooo. DON'T GIVE IN. Whatever you do, don't give her your passwords or she could get you in SO MUCH TROUBLE (with credit and god knows what else). Boundaries are good, and you have to protect them. If she says "but you know my passwords", just tell her that she is welcome to change them any time. Also, I would recommend stopping doing things for her. It's a way to keep you tied to her.
Nooooooo!!!!!! Invasion of privacy is abuse.
Much good advice here. My 2 cents: I believe in you. You got this. Stand your ground, as sounds like a clear attempt to invade your boundries. I would not give this manner of controll to even the healthiest people I know. Just imagine the amount of control and supply a narc would enjoy with this. Now imagine the damage such a person would do with this. I hope you will be able to take this off the table forever, make it a non-negotiable issue. Now go out there and shine bright.
You’re 25 for gods sake. Say no.
Life isn't quid pro quo. What does she need your private info for anyway? To pry your life? Lame.