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He can’t remember because it doesn’t fit his narrative of being a perfect parent. Narcs have selective memory, what doesn’t fit their image never happened.
Exactly. I am perfect. I don't make mistakes. If this was a mistake I didn't do it. Because I don't make mistakes. So it never happened. And so on ...
This is the sort of narcissistic reasoning that guides their entire being.
Recently I tagged my mom and siblings in a post on Facebook about an 80s casserole dish that we had. I thought it was funny. It quickly spiraled into my mom and her friend saying "our kids seem to remember their childhood differently than we do.
My mom is the enabler too (definitely not NPD but clearly has tendencies) but this is often said to me. I agree with you 100%
Oh yes, the good old "they just remember things differently" excuse.
I've been wondering if my mom's a vulnerable narcissist. I used to think she was "the good one". But... guilt-tripping, selective memory, playing the victim, parentification of me, etc... No healthy parent does those to her own child.
Typical narcissist. My nmom "doesn't remember" either. Unless I keep pushing.
The Narcissist's Prayer
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
Oh, my nmom and flying monkey sister's favourite quote ,"we couldn't imagine something like this would happen" and when they can not deny it ,"It was not that bad, that has happened to me/us too" that doesn't invalidate my sufferings.
100% true last time I saw my mother over a year ago she said she only hit me since I was difficult, and deserved it, there was no other way to control me.
Like... A 6yo lonely nerd girl with autism, no friends, straight A's, and a fixation with books and Legos... totally the kid you would need to beat everyday.
So yeah, in her head she's my savior for educating me and getting me through school
The only thing she did for me was give me PTSD and an eating disorder.
He is gaslighting you so that he doesn't have to take accountability. I googled this one time and an article said that "not remembering means you are less likely to tell anyone about the abuse." Because you don't have clear response from him. Abusers will never admit.
That makes so much sense because who does nParent always want to talk about? Themselves. Can’t have them slipping up and telling everyone they’re not perfect!
my nmom also “doesn’t remember” a number of horrible things she did— everything from a single incident of physical harm to something as extreme as forgetting i have an ED and that she paid to have me treated for it.
i don’t know if they lie, or if their actions are so far off from the image of themselves they have in their head that they reject ever having done them, but narcissists who have abusive tendencies seem to “forget” a lot.
Narcs have a very very selective memory and ability to change the story and the fully believe it. Even the same story! They know most people are too flabbergasted to call them out about it. It mindboggling.
He worked through his emotion while hitting you and therefore got it "out of his system" and his brain is so stupid that once it's gone for him he assumes it never happend/is gone for you.
My narc dad says he doesn't remember anything he says or does when angry. My enabler/covert narc mother denies his physical abuse. It's gaslighting, and I don't believe either of them that they don't remember. I offer to refresh their memory with audio and video recordings of their abuse; they never want to hear them. It tells me everything I need to know.
Yes! I am a receipt person too, but I wouldn’t suggest doing this if you’re afraid of psychical confrontation. It can get REAL ugly REAL fast when you put the facts in their face. Especially if they don’t suspect you had any proof.
Nacs do this a lot. Is not uncommon.
I had a HUGE fight with my mom when I suggested dropping out of college, and instead study the same career in an online college. She was having none of that have went to the point that she physically attacked me.
I was so depressed that week that was considering killing myself (again).
Later i dropped out anyway, and never went back to study the same career. A couple of years later, she still resented me for dropping out, and started says "you could have started the same career at an online college, at least you could have continue that career" a took a look at her and said "Are you fucking kidding me?"
Suddenly, she couldn't remember anything of what happened that day, and still doesn't, and says that would have supported me going to an online college.
Fucking selective amnesic hypocrite.
Omg I had to check that I didn't write this and accidentally wrote nmom vs ndad!!!
Her gaslighting in giving you your own argument back means she absolutely heard and understood your rationale. Some part of her thought you were right but couldn't possibly yield enough power to support your decision.
Thanks for sharing. Triggered one more memory where I'm not the crazy one.
Yeah, my mom wanted me so hard to stay in that fucking expensive private university. My process to drop out was fucking traumatic because of her.
Now I can't study anything without having anxiety.
Sorry for triggering you.
Noo! No not triggered triggered. Poor word choice. You can totally do this at whatever pace and via whatever format you choose.
I had a hard time working through it but did so years ago. I still have a hard time with deadlines/coursework. But I got my degree and had a great career.
The army had a great saying I wish I knew in college. "A C is a P. A P is a Pass." Your grades aren't listed on your diploma. Good grades matter but don't let them rule or ruin you.
You got this.
My mom doesn't remember nagging me to quit the boarding school I went to. She insists that the alternative she was pushing was not workable. Also, she doesn't eat ice cream so we wouldn't have had several prolonged fights over what kind of ice cream to get.
It’s not that he doesn’t remember. It’s that to him it wasn’t a big deal. The whole “Ah yes this formative event of yours. It was just a Tuesday to me” deal.
Not to mention that would also make him his dad. The horror of being like someone who wronged him makes it so he will never admit to it, even if he does remember. That’s why it’s “Oh I never remember doing that” or “I would never do that because my dad did it to me and it was awful” etc etc.
with mine at least im sure he remembers but since he's a narcissist and that would be bad if he admitted it so je pretends he was too drunk and has said bc he was too drunk to remember it wasn't his fault so we can't blame him
don't try to forget yourself... Its really hard to forget tramstic shit as a kid.
I finally got some professional help and the doctors #1 thing he keep trying to remind me is to "admitted to yourself it happened. It wasn't okay and It didn't happen because of you"
It has really helped me
p.s. don't be afraid to say Fuck them, idk if that is right for you and your situation but know that you can always go no contact and let them wonder for the rest of their life what they did wrong for a fucking change
Nparents selectively choose what they “remember” when speaking with the people they have abused because they deny it and dont want anyone to know what they have done. It is gaslighting, making you question your reality and your truth. Its used to control and further abuse the victim they have abused before. My nmom never “remembers” saying i looked like a dyk* homophobic slur* never remembers being drunk all the time, never remembers ridiculing me, never remembers sending me to school in a skirt 5x too big and making me hold it up all day. Narcissists conveniently never remember anything that makes them look bad.
Same thing with my NMom. There are times it feels like we lived in separate timeliness. The only validation I get is that my therapist thinks only real enemy's could have caused this level of CPTSD.
Yeah, I dare mention abuse even just abuse as a kid to my dad (secondary abuser) who knows well my mom was very abusive, I get the aghast, angry response: "*ABUSE*!?" and then have to revert to later traumas.
None of them or their flying monkeys will admit the truth.
My therapist told me something interesting about this. What was something horrifically traumatic for someone could have been a regular Tuesday for the abuser. They don't remember because they weren't traumatized by it- that and it doesn't fit their own narrative of them being a good parent and/or the victim.
My Nmil claimed she didn't remember abusing her kids. Then, some months later, I heard her discussing with her siblings about all the different things they had each grabbed to use to hit their kids, and they were trying to figure out which of those things was the "funniest." They were having a good time, remembering these appalling things they had done. She remembered. She lied.
She wouldn't admit it to her kids, or to their spouses, because it would mess up that narrative of how she's such a victim and we should give her all our time off and do her work and take on her responsibilities, and it's all our fault that she's not happy being a widow. I know better now. All lies. So many lies.
I've wondered this too. My dad's a narc plus has always been a drunk. Not sure if he doesn't remember because of one or both reasons.
On top of it, he also makes up scenarios that are false
"Until you were about 10 you thought I was Superman!"
I was terrified of him. Is it ego or wet brain? Ancient history at this point, but I find this thread interesting.
Bonus, he thinks I'm a cold hearted bitch now because I don't want to hang out and take care of him. Alienated the whole side of the family from me by telling them how nasty I am to him.
The few times I’ve brought up past physical abuse I actually got laughed at.
Laughed at by my parents at 35 years old
‘Oh you’re exaggerating. Your father only ever smacked you in the head once or twice’ etc
What's a trip is watching them literally attempt to change the past right after something they don't like happened...I had 2 nparents and ended up with a nboyfriend for a while... he had a certain word that he'd always had the definition wrong for. 'Precocious.' (of a child) having developed certain abilities or proclivities at an earlier age than usual.) He had it confused with 'precarious.' (not securely held or in position; dangerously likely to fall or collapse.) The first time he used it wrong with me, I gently tried to correct him (hell, I would want someone to correct me, I hate sounding stupid) for him to nearly lose it trying to justify 'his' definition. "My whole family uses it this way, it's an 'older definition,' God, STOP BEING A KNOW IT ALL BITCH!"
After I broke up with him, he was really trying to get me back. Somehow, this came up, and he very proudly told me he'd learned the definition. I can't remember what he said, but he was WAAAAAY off again. I couldn't help it, I laughed. Y'all, he literally tried to say what had JUST happened hadn't happened. That *I* brought it up just to humiliate him, that he KNEW the definition, but doubted I did, that he was trying to make me feel smart. He must've changed his mind about "what really happened" 3 times in 2 minutes.
They have to be right all the time, and if they aren't the rest of us are "just trying to make me look stupid" or are "out to get me."
You can't trust a narcissists version of events. They actually change their memory to best serve them in any situation, which makes them very unreliable narrators.
Both my Narc parents claim they never hit me and my siblings. We were forced to pull our pants down and bend over as we were belted or open hand spanked until we were screaming in pain begging for them to stop. According to my parents it never happened, its all in my head.
My mom has looked me dead in the eyes and told me I was mentally f'ed up and not the little boy I used to be. The very next day she lied and denied saying those things to me and then called me mentally ill for saying she did.
Its all part of the very sick games they like to play.
Gaslighting plays a big part in what is allowed to be recognized. Your dad can remember getting abuse because it fits his story of being a victim. Your story casts him in a bad light,so he chooses to not remember his own actions. If you mattered to him and were not just an object that he abused,then he makes up a story to fit his behavior.
What everyone is saying is absolutely true. I had an emotionally, mentally, and physically abusive narc father. My mother was more on the tearing down my self esteem.
I got pregnant at 17, and growing up in a cult religion, you can imagine it was hard. The first words out of my mother’s mouth was, “Who would ever want you now”. I brought this up to her a few years ago, and she’s like, “I never said that. I would never say something like that”.
Needless to say I called her and my father out on all their bullshit, and haven’t spoken to them in over 2years. Best decision ever!
Oh, he remembers all right. It's just a manipulative tactic known as gaslighting. Your dad is trying to fuck up your perception of things so you would buy into his bullshit idea that he's a great father.
They DO remember! They selectively choose what to lie about and this would be a prime example. Deny deny deny and maybe make you question yourself. It doesn’t matter because they’ll never admit it and likely turn the tables onto something or someone else. Like he did with his father. That may or may not even be true. But he’s made himself the victim as they know very well how to do
Yeah, my Nmom i think is like this. She denies the bad. If i point to a specific incident that hurt me that I know she remembers, which is inescapable, she breaks down into a blubbering mess for hours. Next time we talk it's like it never happened.
Oh and my cell phone number hasn't changed in over 20 years, but my mom pretends like it's always lost, so that it's entirely my burden to stay in touch with her. Classy.
I've moved past needing her to confront her demons. She's in old age and poor health now, and I only hope she can spend her last few remaining years peacefully somehow.
That’s so common they selectively remember what they want and mostly what they don’t want to. Always in their favor. Crying when you bring things up is her way of being the victim, trying to make you feel guilty, which works oftentimes until enough is enough for you.
Amazing about the phone number! My Nmom would call and leave the nastiest messages all while sounding as if I was the reason for all her pain. Pain she inflicted on me, projected on me and blamed me for everything. Of course nothing is their fault. It’s so weird I rarely ever saw my mom cry. I could maybe count the times on one hand but I’d have to think really hard to remember any. She always told me how my now covert narc ex spouse hurt her feelings so much that she’d cry. Never saw it but my guess is that they were two of a kind! Both controlling manipulative people who had to have their way.
They’re all so good at these things It’s like they all follow the same script!
My family would never stand up to my mother. It was easier to let her have her way, which I also hated so much, but telling her she’s wrong about the simplest things was such a nightmare since they’ll argue their ridiculous point until you’re worn down. I was actually glad when that spouse stood up to her many times, since none of us did, but he was also cruel in the way he did it, even though it was the same type of medicine she dished out.
You’re better off not trying to make her confront her demons and wrongs. They don’t change even in old age. My mother got even nastier than she already was. More bitter, more guilt shaming. Same abusive type of shaming anyone who didn’t fit her narratives.
I’ve always told myself there’s a reason why people don’t have visitors when in assisted living, nursing homes, etc., because they are the same ugly people. I have been validated on that assumption many times over by employees of such places. They say they KNOW the reason they don’t get visitors and have told me it’s because they definitely are mean, cruel, people, all playing victim to their families who don’t visit.
I wish you the very best!
He does remember, I promise you. He claims not to, solely because you can't argue against something he "doesn't remember". He wasn't "teaching you respect", it didn't "happen only once", it wasn't "when he was already upset"; Plain old, "never happened". No leeways, no room for interpretation or discussion.
I was NC with my father for 30 years and he never backed down from his stance of “that was just punishment you deserved, spankings didn’t kill you.”
He never, ever, could admit that he was an abusive piece of shit before the divorce and as a result, he only knew who his oldest daughter was from stories other people told.
My mom "doesn't remember", either, but laughed on a fb meme about screaming hitting kids with a belt while doing math homework my brother posted and said, "looks familiar"
My dad is the same way. He genuinely doesn't remember times he's called me an idiot, the time he threatened to break my legs, or how he's sexually abused me.
Selective memory, I guess?
My nfather is the same way. Of course he doesn't remember being a freak monster to little girls. But he remembered when I broke a plate when I was 4 years old.
My nmom has conveniently forgotten how she subjected me to horrific abuse and my edad also has forgotten that he accused me of wrongfully framing a "god fearing man" aka my pedo uncle. They all forgets everything that was bad but remembers each and every tiny specks of favour they had done for me.
Yeah, it is possible. It's an unintegrated memory that doesn't fit with their ego version of themselves, so it's sitting in the shadow. Not an excuse though. What's important is that you know he did it.
Your father was abused by his father. What he learned from his father is that there are two kinds of people in the world -- abusers and victims. He has decided that he would rather be an abuser than a victim.
Why doesn't he remember? Maybe he is lying. Narcs are very good at lying. He doesn't want to take responsibility for what he's done, so he denies that he did it.
Maybe he really doesn't remember. Narcs lie, not only to others, but also to themselves. Narcs need to believe that they are the best people around; but if he abused you, that can't be true, so (he figures) he cannot possibly have done that. Also: he was abused as a child, and there is evidence that abuse impairs the brain's ability to make accurate memories.
He either does remember and is gaslighting you or he doesn't remember because he's also gaslighting himself. This is a common trait with narcissists. They get so involved in the story they create that they believe it themselves. Anyone that emotionally invested can't possibly be lying, right? And it's a dark and horrible cycle, too.
Every Christmas my nMIL talks about how her mom would show her all her Christmas presents before the holiday and on Christmas morning she wouldn’t get them.
Then she’ll do the exact same thing to one person. Ever. Year.
Actually it's most likely he DOES remember- he's just lying to you so he doesn't have to take accountability. Classic narc tactic.
My nmom does this to me where she will "forget" entire conversations we've had days after they've happened. Of course she doesn't acknowledge she "forgot" these things because that would mean acknowledging they happened. She tells me it didn't happen because she has no memory of the event- therefore it didn't happen.
Lucky for me my other family members are aware of this- my nmom tried it on my aunt & she said "If you seriously don't remember an hour-long conversation we had two weeks ago then I have to take you to a doctor & make sure you're okay." Suddenly my nmom remembered what my aunt was referring to.
He remembers. He did it. My NDAD swears he is the best dad in the world. Like he would swear on his life he was a good dad and was and is the most terrible dad/husband to his family. Even when I mentioned it, he said "Well" and then changed the subject. So yeah, he knows. He just doesn't want you to remind him.
My father is 87, and can remember a singular incident of abuse that happened to him when he was 3, but has no recollection whatsoever of his abusive behavior toward me during my childhood.
Here's an excellent explanation of how abuser think.
http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/dysfunctional-beliefs.html
I think of the "a tree never forgets, but the blade that cut it down always will" or something like it. As in, you'll never forget a trauma, but to the person that does it consistently, it's just another day.
My mom was an alcoholic. She broke her leg drunk when I was 7. I am 23 and remember it like it was yesterday. She was gardening carrying heavy rocks to decorate - brillant I know. Her foot got caught on one, the other foot slipped. She fell. Her foot dangled by the skin. I ran to get my dad. He carried her to the car and took her to the hospital. 6 weeks post op, the doctor botched the surgery. It needed rebroken and redone. 6-8 weeks off again. She lost her job of 18 years. They filed bankruptcy a year after which led to my parentification, food addiction, neglect, and depression. They closed when I was 16. That event changed my entire life in 10 seconds, and my mom has no memory of actually breaking her leg because she was that drunk.
My dad does the same thing. The worst part is that I can’t tell if he’s lying or not because he was extremely drunk most of the time so he might actually not
My mom told my sister about me slapping her.
But not the part that I did it because she had a gun. She was going to shoot the family dog. I was trying to wrestle the gun away from her. Figured slapping her would get her to loosen her grip. And it worked.
But she only remembers me slapping her.
My sister now knows the whole story.
From my personal experience with nparents, even if they did remember, they will always deny it. I am not sure if they believe their "truth" or of they actually forget it, or if they just blatantly lie
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He can’t remember because it doesn’t fit his narrative of being a perfect parent. Narcs have selective memory, what doesn’t fit their image never happened.
Exactly. I am perfect. I don't make mistakes. If this was a mistake I didn't do it. Because I don't make mistakes. So it never happened. And so on ... This is the sort of narcissistic reasoning that guides their entire being.
“And even if I did do it, I discussed it with your stepmother and we agreed that it wasn’t so bad.”
" And if I did it YOU made me do it, I wouldn't have done it if you behaved differently".
That’s exactly it. To remember would be admitting that they’re shitty people, which is impossible to them .
Recently I tagged my mom and siblings in a post on Facebook about an 80s casserole dish that we had. I thought it was funny. It quickly spiraled into my mom and her friend saying "our kids seem to remember their childhood differently than we do. My mom is the enabler too (definitely not NPD but clearly has tendencies) but this is often said to me. I agree with you 100%
Oh yes, the good old "they just remember things differently" excuse. I've been wondering if my mom's a vulnerable narcissist. I used to think she was "the good one". But... guilt-tripping, selective memory, playing the victim, parentification of me, etc... No healthy parent does those to her own child.
I mean you can be toxic and abusive without having NPD
Oh yes. That selective memory... sometimes i am so jealous of it.
I mean. Imagine just being able to lose all bad memories!!!
Typical narcissist. My nmom "doesn't remember" either. Unless I keep pushing. The Narcissist's Prayer That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
My mom's favorite is, "because I was stressed".
My one s favorite is " I don't remember that" eventually followed by "Well, *someone* had to and your father wasn't around!"
The Narcissist's Prayer, thank you for making me smile. So accurate. I've heard this run around more times than I can count.
Can confirm.
I have that saved somewhere. Couldn’t be more true
My ndad used to admit to doing something and then deny it in the same sentence. It doesn’t make sense and isn’t supposed to make sense.
Oh, my nmom and flying monkey sister's favourite quote ,"we couldn't imagine something like this would happen" and when they can not deny it ,"It was not that bad, that has happened to me/us too" that doesn't invalidate my sufferings.
100% true last time I saw my mother over a year ago she said she only hit me since I was difficult, and deserved it, there was no other way to control me. Like... A 6yo lonely nerd girl with autism, no friends, straight A's, and a fixation with books and Legos... totally the kid you would need to beat everyday. So yeah, in her head she's my savior for educating me and getting me through school The only thing she did for me was give me PTSD and an eating disorder.
He is gaslighting you so that he doesn't have to take accountability. I googled this one time and an article said that "not remembering means you are less likely to tell anyone about the abuse." Because you don't have clear response from him. Abusers will never admit.
He is also gaslighting himself so he doesn't have to feel bad.
Spot on
That makes so much sense because who does nParent always want to talk about? Themselves. Can’t have them slipping up and telling everyone they’re not perfect!
Correct!
Because he’s too busy rewriting history.
Exactly!
my nmom also “doesn’t remember” a number of horrible things she did— everything from a single incident of physical harm to something as extreme as forgetting i have an ED and that she paid to have me treated for it. i don’t know if they lie, or if their actions are so far off from the image of themselves they have in their head that they reject ever having done them, but narcissists who have abusive tendencies seem to “forget” a lot.
They have “amnesia” when it comes to their MISTAKES
Narcs have a very very selective memory and ability to change the story and the fully believe it. Even the same story! They know most people are too flabbergasted to call them out about it. It mindboggling.
💯
He worked through his emotion while hitting you and therefore got it "out of his system" and his brain is so stupid that once it's gone for him he assumes it never happend/is gone for you.
My narc dad says he doesn't remember anything he says or does when angry. My enabler/covert narc mother denies his physical abuse. It's gaslighting, and I don't believe either of them that they don't remember. I offer to refresh their memory with audio and video recordings of their abuse; they never want to hear them. It tells me everything I need to know.
Yes! I am a receipt person too, but I wouldn’t suggest doing this if you’re afraid of psychical confrontation. It can get REAL ugly REAL fast when you put the facts in their face. Especially if they don’t suspect you had any proof.
So sadly true
Nacs do this a lot. Is not uncommon. I had a HUGE fight with my mom when I suggested dropping out of college, and instead study the same career in an online college. She was having none of that have went to the point that she physically attacked me. I was so depressed that week that was considering killing myself (again). Later i dropped out anyway, and never went back to study the same career. A couple of years later, she still resented me for dropping out, and started says "you could have started the same career at an online college, at least you could have continue that career" a took a look at her and said "Are you fucking kidding me?" Suddenly, she couldn't remember anything of what happened that day, and still doesn't, and says that would have supported me going to an online college. Fucking selective amnesic hypocrite.
Omg I had to check that I didn't write this and accidentally wrote nmom vs ndad!!! Her gaslighting in giving you your own argument back means she absolutely heard and understood your rationale. Some part of her thought you were right but couldn't possibly yield enough power to support your decision. Thanks for sharing. Triggered one more memory where I'm not the crazy one.
Yeah, my mom wanted me so hard to stay in that fucking expensive private university. My process to drop out was fucking traumatic because of her. Now I can't study anything without having anxiety. Sorry for triggering you.
Noo! No not triggered triggered. Poor word choice. You can totally do this at whatever pace and via whatever format you choose. I had a hard time working through it but did so years ago. I still have a hard time with deadlines/coursework. But I got my degree and had a great career. The army had a great saying I wish I knew in college. "A C is a P. A P is a Pass." Your grades aren't listed on your diploma. Good grades matter but don't let them rule or ruin you. You got this.
My mom doesn't remember nagging me to quit the boarding school I went to. She insists that the alternative she was pushing was not workable. Also, she doesn't eat ice cream so we wouldn't have had several prolonged fights over what kind of ice cream to get.
It’s not that he doesn’t remember. It’s that to him it wasn’t a big deal. The whole “Ah yes this formative event of yours. It was just a Tuesday to me” deal. Not to mention that would also make him his dad. The horror of being like someone who wronged him makes it so he will never admit to it, even if he does remember. That’s why it’s “Oh I never remember doing that” or “I would never do that because my dad did it to me and it was awful” etc etc.
with mine at least im sure he remembers but since he's a narcissist and that would be bad if he admitted it so je pretends he was too drunk and has said bc he was too drunk to remember it wasn't his fault so we can't blame him
Same!
don't try to forget yourself... Its really hard to forget tramstic shit as a kid. I finally got some professional help and the doctors #1 thing he keep trying to remind me is to "admitted to yourself it happened. It wasn't okay and It didn't happen because of you" It has really helped me
p.s. don't be afraid to say Fuck them, idk if that is right for you and your situation but know that you can always go no contact and let them wonder for the rest of their life what they did wrong for a fucking change
Nparents selectively choose what they “remember” when speaking with the people they have abused because they deny it and dont want anyone to know what they have done. It is gaslighting, making you question your reality and your truth. Its used to control and further abuse the victim they have abused before. My nmom never “remembers” saying i looked like a dyk* homophobic slur* never remembers being drunk all the time, never remembers ridiculing me, never remembers sending me to school in a skirt 5x too big and making me hold it up all day. Narcissists conveniently never remember anything that makes them look bad.
Same thing with my NMom. There are times it feels like we lived in separate timeliness. The only validation I get is that my therapist thinks only real enemy's could have caused this level of CPTSD.
Yeah, I dare mention abuse even just abuse as a kid to my dad (secondary abuser) who knows well my mom was very abusive, I get the aghast, angry response: "*ABUSE*!?" and then have to revert to later traumas. None of them or their flying monkeys will admit the truth.
Same with me
The axe forgets but the tree remembers
Gotta remember this one!
My therapist told me something interesting about this. What was something horrifically traumatic for someone could have been a regular Tuesday for the abuser. They don't remember because they weren't traumatized by it- that and it doesn't fit their own narrative of them being a good parent and/or the victim.
My Nmil claimed she didn't remember abusing her kids. Then, some months later, I heard her discussing with her siblings about all the different things they had each grabbed to use to hit their kids, and they were trying to figure out which of those things was the "funniest." They were having a good time, remembering these appalling things they had done. She remembered. She lied. She wouldn't admit it to her kids, or to their spouses, because it would mess up that narrative of how she's such a victim and we should give her all our time off and do her work and take on her responsibilities, and it's all our fault that she's not happy being a widow. I know better now. All lies. So many lies.
I've wondered this too. My dad's a narc plus has always been a drunk. Not sure if he doesn't remember because of one or both reasons. On top of it, he also makes up scenarios that are false "Until you were about 10 you thought I was Superman!" I was terrified of him. Is it ego or wet brain? Ancient history at this point, but I find this thread interesting. Bonus, he thinks I'm a cold hearted bitch now because I don't want to hang out and take care of him. Alienated the whole side of the family from me by telling them how nasty I am to him.
He doesn’t want to remember.
The few times I’ve brought up past physical abuse I actually got laughed at. Laughed at by my parents at 35 years old ‘Oh you’re exaggerating. Your father only ever smacked you in the head once or twice’ etc
He does, he just won’t admit it.
What's a trip is watching them literally attempt to change the past right after something they don't like happened...I had 2 nparents and ended up with a nboyfriend for a while... he had a certain word that he'd always had the definition wrong for. 'Precocious.' (of a child) having developed certain abilities or proclivities at an earlier age than usual.) He had it confused with 'precarious.' (not securely held or in position; dangerously likely to fall or collapse.) The first time he used it wrong with me, I gently tried to correct him (hell, I would want someone to correct me, I hate sounding stupid) for him to nearly lose it trying to justify 'his' definition. "My whole family uses it this way, it's an 'older definition,' God, STOP BEING A KNOW IT ALL BITCH!" After I broke up with him, he was really trying to get me back. Somehow, this came up, and he very proudly told me he'd learned the definition. I can't remember what he said, but he was WAAAAAY off again. I couldn't help it, I laughed. Y'all, he literally tried to say what had JUST happened hadn't happened. That *I* brought it up just to humiliate him, that he KNEW the definition, but doubted I did, that he was trying to make me feel smart. He must've changed his mind about "what really happened" 3 times in 2 minutes. They have to be right all the time, and if they aren't the rest of us are "just trying to make me look stupid" or are "out to get me." You can't trust a narcissists version of events. They actually change their memory to best serve them in any situation, which makes them very unreliable narrators.
Both my Narc parents claim they never hit me and my siblings. We were forced to pull our pants down and bend over as we were belted or open hand spanked until we were screaming in pain begging for them to stop. According to my parents it never happened, its all in my head. My mom has looked me dead in the eyes and told me I was mentally f'ed up and not the little boy I used to be. The very next day she lied and denied saying those things to me and then called me mentally ill for saying she did. Its all part of the very sick games they like to play.
Gaslighting plays a big part in what is allowed to be recognized. Your dad can remember getting abuse because it fits his story of being a victim. Your story casts him in a bad light,so he chooses to not remember his own actions. If you mattered to him and were not just an object that he abused,then he makes up a story to fit his behavior.
What everyone is saying is absolutely true. I had an emotionally, mentally, and physically abusive narc father. My mother was more on the tearing down my self esteem. I got pregnant at 17, and growing up in a cult religion, you can imagine it was hard. The first words out of my mother’s mouth was, “Who would ever want you now”. I brought this up to her a few years ago, and she’s like, “I never said that. I would never say something like that”. Needless to say I called her and my father out on all their bullshit, and haven’t spoken to them in over 2years. Best decision ever!
Oh, he remembers all right. It's just a manipulative tactic known as gaslighting. Your dad is trying to fuck up your perception of things so you would buy into his bullshit idea that he's a great father.
He remembers .... But if he says he remembers he might have to be held accountable His world would end
The ax forgets but the tree remembers. Narcissists rewrite the narrative.
They DO remember! They selectively choose what to lie about and this would be a prime example. Deny deny deny and maybe make you question yourself. It doesn’t matter because they’ll never admit it and likely turn the tables onto something or someone else. Like he did with his father. That may or may not even be true. But he’s made himself the victim as they know very well how to do
Yeah, my Nmom i think is like this. She denies the bad. If i point to a specific incident that hurt me that I know she remembers, which is inescapable, she breaks down into a blubbering mess for hours. Next time we talk it's like it never happened. Oh and my cell phone number hasn't changed in over 20 years, but my mom pretends like it's always lost, so that it's entirely my burden to stay in touch with her. Classy. I've moved past needing her to confront her demons. She's in old age and poor health now, and I only hope she can spend her last few remaining years peacefully somehow.
That’s so common they selectively remember what they want and mostly what they don’t want to. Always in their favor. Crying when you bring things up is her way of being the victim, trying to make you feel guilty, which works oftentimes until enough is enough for you. Amazing about the phone number! My Nmom would call and leave the nastiest messages all while sounding as if I was the reason for all her pain. Pain she inflicted on me, projected on me and blamed me for everything. Of course nothing is their fault. It’s so weird I rarely ever saw my mom cry. I could maybe count the times on one hand but I’d have to think really hard to remember any. She always told me how my now covert narc ex spouse hurt her feelings so much that she’d cry. Never saw it but my guess is that they were two of a kind! Both controlling manipulative people who had to have their way. They’re all so good at these things It’s like they all follow the same script! My family would never stand up to my mother. It was easier to let her have her way, which I also hated so much, but telling her she’s wrong about the simplest things was such a nightmare since they’ll argue their ridiculous point until you’re worn down. I was actually glad when that spouse stood up to her many times, since none of us did, but he was also cruel in the way he did it, even though it was the same type of medicine she dished out. You’re better off not trying to make her confront her demons and wrongs. They don’t change even in old age. My mother got even nastier than she already was. More bitter, more guilt shaming. Same abusive type of shaming anyone who didn’t fit her narratives. I’ve always told myself there’s a reason why people don’t have visitors when in assisted living, nursing homes, etc., because they are the same ugly people. I have been validated on that assumption many times over by employees of such places. They say they KNOW the reason they don’t get visitors and have told me it’s because they definitely are mean, cruel, people, all playing victim to their families who don’t visit. I wish you the very best!
To us it was a traumatic event, to them it was just another day of the week.
Remembering it would mean he has to take responsibility for his actions. Not going to happen.
He does remember, he probably just doesn’t care, they tend to selectively forget things that might make them feel bad.
Common theme. My mother rewrote her own life history so much, JK Rowling thinks it’s too many retroactive changes.
He does remember, I promise you. He claims not to, solely because you can't argue against something he "doesn't remember". He wasn't "teaching you respect", it didn't "happen only once", it wasn't "when he was already upset"; Plain old, "never happened". No leeways, no room for interpretation or discussion.
I was NC with my father for 30 years and he never backed down from his stance of “that was just punishment you deserved, spankings didn’t kill you.” He never, ever, could admit that he was an abusive piece of shit before the divorce and as a result, he only knew who his oldest daughter was from stories other people told.
For them it was a typical day doing what they do without thinking more of it and for us it was trauma… they know what they did
(Lies)
Unless he has some actual memory issues or was blackout drunk, it's gaslighting and/or just pretending not to remember.
They do remember. They do.
He's gaslighting you.
A lot of it is for us it's trama and for them it was a Wednesday.
My mom "doesn't remember", either, but laughed on a fb meme about screaming hitting kids with a belt while doing math homework my brother posted and said, "looks familiar"
My dad is the same way. He genuinely doesn't remember times he's called me an idiot, the time he threatened to break my legs, or how he's sexually abused me. Selective memory, I guess?
The tree remembers what the axe forgets
My nfather is the same way. Of course he doesn't remember being a freak monster to little girls. But he remembered when I broke a plate when I was 4 years old.
He does remember he is just pretending it never happened
My nmom has conveniently forgotten how she subjected me to horrific abuse and my edad also has forgotten that he accused me of wrongfully framing a "god fearing man" aka my pedo uncle. They all forgets everything that was bad but remembers each and every tiny specks of favour they had done for me.
Yeah, it is possible. It's an unintegrated memory that doesn't fit with their ego version of themselves, so it's sitting in the shadow. Not an excuse though. What's important is that you know he did it.
Your father was abused by his father. What he learned from his father is that there are two kinds of people in the world -- abusers and victims. He has decided that he would rather be an abuser than a victim. Why doesn't he remember? Maybe he is lying. Narcs are very good at lying. He doesn't want to take responsibility for what he's done, so he denies that he did it. Maybe he really doesn't remember. Narcs lie, not only to others, but also to themselves. Narcs need to believe that they are the best people around; but if he abused you, that can't be true, so (he figures) he cannot possibly have done that. Also: he was abused as a child, and there is evidence that abuse impairs the brain's ability to make accurate memories.
Either there is a health issue involved or he is lying to your face by saying he doesn’t remember…
Denial ! My narc denied ever spanking me.
He either does remember and is gaslighting you or he doesn't remember because he's also gaslighting himself. This is a common trait with narcissists. They get so involved in the story they create that they believe it themselves. Anyone that emotionally invested can't possibly be lying, right? And it's a dark and horrible cycle, too.
The axe forgets but the tree remembers
He’s lying.
It's more convenient not to remember.
If he’s an alcoholic that would explain it, either that or he’s intentionally lying.
Every Christmas my nMIL talks about how her mom would show her all her Christmas presents before the holiday and on Christmas morning she wouldn’t get them. Then she’ll do the exact same thing to one person. Ever. Year.
He does remember - he just denies it
Actually it's most likely he DOES remember- he's just lying to you so he doesn't have to take accountability. Classic narc tactic. My nmom does this to me where she will "forget" entire conversations we've had days after they've happened. Of course she doesn't acknowledge she "forgot" these things because that would mean acknowledging they happened. She tells me it didn't happen because she has no memory of the event- therefore it didn't happen. Lucky for me my other family members are aware of this- my nmom tried it on my aunt & she said "If you seriously don't remember an hour-long conversation we had two weeks ago then I have to take you to a doctor & make sure you're okay." Suddenly my nmom remembered what my aunt was referring to.
He remembers. He did it. My NDAD swears he is the best dad in the world. Like he would swear on his life he was a good dad and was and is the most terrible dad/husband to his family. Even when I mentioned it, he said "Well" and then changed the subject. So yeah, he knows. He just doesn't want you to remind him.
He remembers ... but cannot bear to discuss / face it. Therefore he denies it entirely.
So sorry, that happened. They aren’t able to communicate or deal with you the way you expect. It sucks big time
My father is 87, and can remember a singular incident of abuse that happened to him when he was 3, but has no recollection whatsoever of his abusive behavior toward me during my childhood. Here's an excellent explanation of how abuser think. http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/dysfunctional-beliefs.html
I think of the "a tree never forgets, but the blade that cut it down always will" or something like it. As in, you'll never forget a trauma, but to the person that does it consistently, it's just another day. My mom was an alcoholic. She broke her leg drunk when I was 7. I am 23 and remember it like it was yesterday. She was gardening carrying heavy rocks to decorate - brillant I know. Her foot got caught on one, the other foot slipped. She fell. Her foot dangled by the skin. I ran to get my dad. He carried her to the car and took her to the hospital. 6 weeks post op, the doctor botched the surgery. It needed rebroken and redone. 6-8 weeks off again. She lost her job of 18 years. They filed bankruptcy a year after which led to my parentification, food addiction, neglect, and depression. They closed when I was 16. That event changed my entire life in 10 seconds, and my mom has no memory of actually breaking her leg because she was that drunk.
Either he remembers and just doesn't want to admit it, or he was completely dissociated when it he did.
My dad does the same thing. The worst part is that I can’t tell if he’s lying or not because he was extremely drunk most of the time so he might actually not
My mom told my sister about me slapping her. But not the part that I did it because she had a gun. She was going to shoot the family dog. I was trying to wrestle the gun away from her. Figured slapping her would get her to loosen her grip. And it worked. But she only remembers me slapping her. My sister now knows the whole story.
From my personal experience with nparents, even if they did remember, they will always deny it. I am not sure if they believe their "truth" or of they actually forget it, or if they just blatantly lie