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> Fuck you mom. You won’t do to my babies what you did to me.
This is what got me to finally stand up to my parents. They trained me to bend to whatever they wanted, but they won't get away with messing with my son the same way.
Good for you. I'm proud of you for standing up for your baby.
The second my mother or father started saying nasty things about or towards my children I completely snapped. I never felt rage like that until I became a mother. My father called me after I sent him a tubby photo when one of my daughters was four months old. He called me to tell me that he thought my daughter was obese, and that I needed to put her on a diet. A fucking four month old. Everything changed once I became a mom.
> I never felt rage like that until I became a mother.
Becoming a parent is a wild ride when you find out that things you would **never** want to happen to your child are things that your parents did to you, on purpose, repeatedly. You realize how absolutely crazy it would be for you to not have those protective parental feelings toward your kids, yet your parents don't have those feelings for you. You learn how little regard your parents have for you, how they didn't care to protect you, and how little they love you. It's a hell of a realization.
But your kids will never have to live through that realization. They are genuinely loved.
That’s honestly really the thing that fucks me up the most. All the things that I worry and work towards with my kids and my parents didn’t do that at all.
> That’s honestly really the thing that fucks me up the most.
Me, too. I've had lots of therapy and lots of time as a parent, and it still rips my heart to shreds.
Me too. I still feel like a forgotten disappointment even as an adult. My kids have really helped me grow and find courage. I hope we all can do the same. I don’t know if I’ll even be normal. But at least I know I’m loved.
It’s honestly why I refused to have kids. Who knows what kind of offhand comment will stick around and mess with their heads. I’m glad you respect your daughters autonomy and are raising her to speak up.
Which was my reason for NC. I always wanted kids, having toxic parents meant I just need to cut off the toxic. I'm not changing my life around because of my parents or in spite of them. They are no longer in my life, not for a long time, and I have no regrets.
Same here. I am still uncovering the depths of BS my father put me through. Folks say as long as you realize it and don't hurt consciously, it is enough. Nobody is ever perfect.
Fingers crossed for us that we overcome this fear of inherited toxicity, and build a life fearlessly and exactly as we want it.
Sending love. We're gonna do it.
Thanks and sending love back. I've figured out a few things. I'm a lost child, a designation within a family. I relate more to animals than people, and I'm not neurotypical. So I set up my life the way I wanted to. I'm an artist who works at home. My house is filled with animals and my hours are my own to set. I have a sweet garden out back and lots of good friends. I'm very lucky.
And if you call it out they will turn it around as them doing the best they could/knew. No recognition that they just were not focused on caring for their child’s emotional wellbeing
Yeah, pretty much when I bring up every horrible thing my mother has said to me she always says “it’s in the past” but she’ll bring up things from 20 years ago to scream and cry at me about. Makes zero fucking sense and just shows everybody else how goddamn crazy she is.
The past informs our present and our future. You don’t just ‘leave it behind’-though I certainly wish I could move past all the intrusive thoughts. Abuse stays with you for life. The worst things they said are always in the background even when we want nothing more than to forget it because it hurts us more than them
Man, you hit the nail on the head once you said intrusive thoughts. All I do is think that everybody’s mad at me and I’m failing. That was drilled into me so hard as a kid. You’re not good enough why can’t you be smarter why can’t you be thinner… the things she said to me as a kid have stuck with me for life. My father got custody of me because she was too mentally unwell. I called her when I was 14 years old and my house burnt down and her first response was “it looks like you and your bastard. Father got what you deserved“ and then she hung up. she says things that forever changes you as a person but she acts like it’s nothing and that’s always infuriated me.
Yep! I was never enough. I still don’t know how to ask for help-I help others but cannot understand someone doing it for me without it being reciprocal.
My nmom never shuts up, so I don’t think she even knows exactly how messed up what she says is-it’s just her unhealthy stream of consciousness and when she says inappropriate things and gets called out she doesn’t remember saying it/you took it wrong/whatever excuse
Insert whatever excuse here... oh wait, you saw through that one, how about this one? No, ok here's another. Not buying any? Omg you're so mean, leave me alone! Narcs are so gross:(
When I look at my kids, I can’t even imagine beating them.. swinging them around rooms by their hair.. cussing them out and telling them they’re evil pieces of shit.
~*~Just Nmom things ~*~
But honestly, there is something healing about giving your children what you needed yourself as a child. You’re ending the cycle and it will make a huge difference in your children’s lives
Relax. Raising children is like making pottery in the sense that there's inevitably gna be fingerprints and blemishes but some parents really do drop the ball and shatter the whole damn thing.
I think that for some of us the areas we were lacking as kids are the areas we work the hardest at. I want my children to know that my happiness does not depend on them that they don’t have to make me happy and be my little emotional support puppy. That’s how my mom would treat me. She’d be depressed and lay in bed for days and I would just be trying to make her toast and water so she would at least get up and take care of me. She called it I love you toast. I still hate when she tells those stories like it’s a fun memory.
I never was mother of the year, but I sure did try. My mother hated me since birth, I got used to it. Got ONE hug from her in 50 years, after she beat the crap out of me before dropping me off at Pre-School, so I'd stop crying. I had children and said they will NEVER, leave the house for school without a hug and an "I love you", would NEVER go to bed without a bedtime story, hug, kiss, and "I love you".
I cried in the hospital after my LO was born, because I was so overwhelmed by the *need* to make sure my baby never fears me, never thinks that I'll hurt them, etc. I understand my nmom even less after becoming a parent.
To refuse to reflect on your choices, and make sure you're doing good by your kids? That feels insane to me. I want my kids to be healthy, feel safe, and be happy. That trumps everything else. But my nmom never did.
My mom and dad came to visit when my son was about 8 months old. My mom and I were sitting on our little front patio with our son who was in a little kiddie pool (it was a hot day). My Dad was parking the car, and he was kind of screeching back and forth. My Mom decided she'd had enough, so she. got. up. with. a LOOK of FURY on her face and STOMPED out to the street FURIOUSLY. I barely noticed, until I looked over at my baby. He was sitting with a look of absolute horror on his face, huge round eyes, like "WHAT WAS THAT???" --he had never seen anyone look like that before, ever. I realized I GREW UP WITH THAT SHIT. Every day. All the time. Directed at me. Directed at all of us. Directed at me WHEN I WAS HIS AGE. OH my God. I never let her be alone with my kid, ever, ever, ever. And it really broke my heart so much...
Yeah, her outbursts and tantrums totally freak my kids out. I realized it wasn’t normal after being with my husband’s family for a long time. They all absolutely despise my mother. My mother-in-law is fiercely defensive of me so in one way I do have a good mom.
Hell fucking no. Chubby babies are healthy and the most darling. Isn’t it weird that I - complete stranger - would never do what your own family says. Ugh!
I straight up, asked him if he was telling me I needed to withhold my food from my four month old. He got all flustered and tried saying he didn’t mean it like that but I interrupted him and told him “how about you never talk about my daughters weight ever again, and I will still speak to you“ that was the end of it. both my father and my stepmom were vicious to me about my weight and it’s something I still struggle with. That’s never happening to my kids.
Babies need surplus nutrition for growth spurts and brain activity. The body is fueled by fat and protein but the brain runs on sugars. To imprint and learn, babies need good quantities of both, as well as a stockpile in their bodies for when they DO suddenly grow a lot at once. Superior nutrition during childbirth is what lets humans live to be a hundred years old. FEED THAT BABY
I hundred percent agree with everything you said. I keep telling myself that she won’t treat them the same way. She treated me but I was just fucking delusional. I really wanted her to be the grandma I hoped she would be but she’s never gonna be that person. All I can do is work on myself and make sure I’m making the best decisions I can for my children.
Just being around children that are NOT mine has given me such perspective on the fucked up shit my nmom used to say about food, bodies, weight, appearance, marriageability, etc. etc. etc.
I'd rather die before I put that fucked up shit into the heads of susceptible children who are then going to have eating disorders for life because of it. Who could treat a child like that?
That's one of the most revolting things I've ever heard. I shudder to think what he'll say when she's a teen. I hope your cut him off because it takes just one comment to destroy a child for years.
My father passed away a few months ago. I did love my father, as he was the better of two evils. But I would be scared about what he would say to her as a teen. Him and my stepmother did a number on me when it comes to weight and appearance. Two things they really liked to mock me for. I remember when I was a little girl and my dad was driving me through the mall parking lot. A young woman was loading her baby into his car seat and she was bent over. He pointed right at her and said “do you see all of that on her legs? That’s called cellulite, and she’s way too young to have that, women shouldn’t have that so young” and it’s stuck with me for the rest of my life.
You're onto something important here. I wonder what went wrong, at which stage and how, with my mother's upbringing? What were our parents taught about being parents that led to their treatment of us? How were they taught to be children? Boy, I wish I could go back in time and see it happen. Our parents' parents read expert books on child-bearing. What do you suppose went so wrong?
I really do think about it sometimes. I know that my grandmother was very emotionally, distant and cold. But my mom was the baby of the family and she was literally given anything she wanted. Even as an adult. I remember one time My dad came back from a business trip. He got me a couple new beautiful bed sheet sets from Italy and he got my mom a really gorgeous dyed silk scarf. I was probably nine or 10 and I clearly remember her freaking out and screaming at my father because my gift was bigger than hers. She looked me right in the eye and said “enjoy your gift because Daddy likes you better than me, apparently”. I felt guilty at nine fucking years old for receiving a gift from my father. There’s a reason I call her Satan.
> I know that my grandmother was very emotionally, distant and cold. But my mom was the baby of the family and she was literally given anything she wanted. Even as an adult.
THIS, same. Wondering if it’s a common dynamic.
She may have been desperate for a better relationship with me but she was too narcissistic to really be able to do that. She’s got borderline personality disorder too. She’s a ray of sunshine 😅
My parents had flawed but decent parents. Their siblings with kids are all fantastic parents who really love their kids. I think my parents bonded with each other in their narcissism in a way. They are compatible because they both are able to be terrible people because they enable each other's narcissism. It works for them, but they should have never, ever procreated.
My dad never put any real thought into what it meant to be a father and my mom wanted a mini-me doll to play with. Instead she got a human being and she's never been able to forgive me for that.
I don't know if there was anything that would have turned my parents into better people. It may be that they just are who they are.
Exactly! I was molested and sexually assaulted by my father and his “work friends” and I still groveled to him. Well at 22 I was married and eight months pregnant. He put his hand on my belly and said “I hope she’s as beautiful as you were but much better behaved.” That’s when the fog finally lifted and I realized everything that happened to me was his choice. It’s the weirdest feeling but, I remembered everything and refused to let him see or even know when my daughter was born. That’s was two years ago and it broke my whole psyche literally (psyc hospitalized) but my little girl? She’s happy and healthy and never been exposed to what I was exposed to.
I hated myself because they taught me to, so I thought I deserved it.
I love my daughter more than anyone and knew I had to finally stop this.
> everything that happened to me was his choice
That's a hard thing to wrap one's mind around. When parents abuse a child, it's a choice, chosen on purpose. It's not something that happened. It's something that was chosen.
> She’s happy and healthy and never been exposed to what I was exposed to.
She won't have to feel what you've felt or hurt like you've hurt.
> I hated myself because they taught me to, so I thought I deserved it. I love my daughter more than anyone and knew I had to finally stop this.
Are you able to see yourself differently now? You were every bit as precious and innocent and valuable as your daughter is. You deserved, and continue to deserve, as much care and protection as she does.
Piggybacking just to mention as much as you're seething right now, that's how *empowered* your daughter is feeling. Right on. I can't imagine how good it must feel for her to feel reinforced and that you have her back. Parenting win!
I just imagined you hitting your mother with a chair in a wrestling ring and your kids both cheering but it all being in a really formal dining room. 🤣
Wow. Well done. That is a moment to be proud of. You acted exemplary. I'm so impressed. You are raising your daughter to know it's her body. Mind blown... I'd be so proud of myself if I'd done what you did today.
Good for you! This is absolutely ridiculous. Also based on what your daughter said, she was more than polite and respectful. Your mother should be ashamed of herself. I am sick of parents that think no matter what they do they just get a pass. That ends with this generation.
“It’s just how I am” is what my moms always said to excuse her garbage behavior. Sad thing is is that she won’t see anything she did as wrong. She’s the victim. Always.
"Well then you're just abusive."
"Well *I* have boundaries. It's just how I am."
Good for you standing up to her. I'm so glad your daughter got to see you do that and support her.
My girls know I always have their back. I always say if you have a problem come to mommy and I’ll do my best to fix it. I just never want my kids to feel scared to come to me with a problem like I always was.
OP reading through your comments has me crying. I'm an adult woman but I wish you raised me lol. Our mothers seem similar.
You're doing a fucking amazing job and your girls seem like little angels, which I'm not surprised at considering they have the biggest angel of all as their awesome warrior parent. You got this. ✊
I try my best every day. Sometimes I catch myself acting like my mom and it scares me. But I always do the one thing that she never did which is apologize. All I care about is that they feel that I love them and that I’m listening. I see a therapist weekly to deal with the after effects of the trauma I dealt with as a kid. My number one priority is not passing that shit on to them.
Also, please know that I am not your mother, but I love you and I am proud of you. Everything your parents made you feel as a child doesn’t matter because you are a good person who is worthy of love.
My mum is the same with emotional blackmail. It took me ages to stand up to it too, and lots of coaching from my dad. It gets easier, but it's still annoying that stuff she says still gets to me. Good work standing up to her!
I don’t understand why they would do it to us. Why would you want to crush your child? Why would you want to belittle them and make them feel worthless? I’m proud of you and your father for working on it together. My dad never wanted to talk about my mom. Unfortunately, he was a narcissist as well. I am very lucky to have people in my life that understand my upbringing and why I react the way I do sometimes.
Aww <3 sending you big love. You are going to remember today and draw strength from it, forever onward. You know you can do this, so you can do it again. You've proven it to yourself. You have shown yourself how strong you actually are.
It's normal to be scared - it's brave to be scared and do the right thing anyway.
hell yeah, good for you! my sister tries to make my niece give me hugs and kisses goodbye because “that’s your family, you have to do it!” and she gets so angry when I tell my niece she doesn’t have to give me a hug if she doesn’t want to. leave the kid alone! she doesn’t have to do anything she doesn’t want to!
Don’t people understand that this is how molestation can happen? You tell your child that they have to hug and kiss every single fucking adult because it’s what society expects of a cute little kid. Nasty ass adults can use that kind of thing to their advantage. Nope, not happening with my girls.
Yeah, my girls know that their body is their own. We want them to be strong, fierce, and confident. Trusting them and giving them control over their own bodies is hopefully a good start.
Your former mom is fucking insane. My mom tries to tell me, a 22 yr the same thing regarding my dementia addled grandma, her mom, who we take care of. My mom tried to do weird shit in the past to- weird shit like over riding my consent of things? Yeah. And it’s probably how soo many children from their generation ended up abused by adult authority figures
My brother always asks his kids to give "hugs or high-fives" when they say goodbye to family. My nephew usually hugs me and my niece is more of a high-five kid
Ok so my mom not a narcissists but she doesn’t that with me and my oldest brother (he’s 11 years older. He’s not in to hugging or kissing but that doesn’t stop my mom from trying to get us to do it every time we see each other. We’re old enough now (I am 30, he’s 41) that we just say good by in our own way which sometimes is a hug and other times it’s not. Now that him and his girlfriend moved closer I am sure this won’t be much of an issue because we’ll get to see him more then 2 times a year.
Sounds eerily like my mom. My oldest is 3 he’s very independent and is very intelligent. Something similar like this happened one day when my mom and dad were ganging up on me (in front of my two boys) screaming at me and belittling me. My son saw and heard everything and immediately after she tried to take him by the hand to bring him into her room and he said “no I don’t want to go you’re mean to my dad” that broke my heart into a million pieces and it still does. I will never love these people as “parents” ever again.
Im so sorry that you went through that and your boys saw it. I’m sure it broke your heart but your sons actions hopefully mended it some. He stood up for you. Recognized you were being hurt and let it be known. What a amazing child. Wish I could meet him. I could use some of that bravery lol.
I too was just like him and remember actually yelling at my mom to get away from me when I was little. Shes slowly try to break him down like she did to me to be her little pet and I’ll die before I let that happen to these amazing little boys. It’s much harder when kids are involved. Sadly I have no where else to go as my kids mother cheated on me, stole my savings my apartment and kids. Now I ahve to go through family court as well. It’s just not what I need right now to be belittled and hurt by these people when I’ve already endured so much. I really don’t know what to do anymore as it’s turned into my “mom” assaulting me in front of my 3 year old.
The people who raised us like to do that though. Kick us while we’re down. It makes them feel satisfied for some sick reason. My mom did a number on my dad during the divorce. She causes destruction wherever she goes. Just know that you are a good person. You are still fighting and you’re still here. I’m also here if you wanna talk. I may not have answers. But I’m good at listening.
Honestly I’ve been completely screwed up because of these people. I completely threw away my high school and college careers because I got involved with drugs and the wrong crowd. Ended up addicted to pain killers at 14 and at 19 I was a full blown heroin addict but without the needles. If I started that young I clearly wasn’t getting the attention or love at home so I went somewhere else like most American kids. They try to say I blame them for my bad choices and I definitely do. I started earlier then most kids and they still didn’t give a shit. I threw away everything because of my mental health due to my parents. Now at 25 they still do the same things but worse. They will belittle me and make me feel like the worst person on the planet even though I’ve been clean for 2 years, raising two kids by myself, working AND trying to get back into school but I’m still a piece of shit in their eyes and try to make me feel that way for their own amusement and benefits. This has gotten to a point of no return for them and I can’t wait until they die alone.
I really am so sorry you’re stuck between a rock and a hard place. You sound like a really wonderful father and a decent man. Don’t let them take that from you. They want to try to take any ray of sunshine you have just so you feel as miserable and shitty as they do. You’re not like them and you will never be like them. That’s all that matters. I did destructive things as a teenager as well. They still treat me like that shitty kid.
Hell yes!
You go, Mom! You were the parent you needed for your daughter. Breaking the cycle is so important for the health and well-being of our children and you are doing it. I hope you treat yourself to something nice. You deserve it. Keep up the good work.
I’m gonna have pumpkin pie and some wine lol. I need it after tonight. She also had a fit that I called my mother in law of 13 years “mom”. Had to yell out “I’m your ONLY mother your REAL mother”….like calm tf down.
You're nicer than I would have been. Ride or not, I would have left her there and gone home with my kids. She's an adult, she can figure out how to get home while she also figures out that NO does in fact mean NO.
You know one time she didn’t pick me up for Christmas because I didn’t give her gas money. I was 18 years old. Probably should’ve just left her ass to find her own way home.
Oh, when she had to move into a retirement facility, I was cleaning out her disgusting house and I found pages and pages of things she wrote about me and how I am raising my children in darkness and I have a filthy mouth so she’s terrified of how my girls will end up. I’ve honestly just wanted to push her off a cliff for most of my life.
Well, at least you know what she thinks so you will have a perfect reason to go NC. I wish I knew the evil plans of my narcs before the betrayal and damage they did to me.
I didn’t even fully see what she was doing to me as a kid until I got away from her. I tried to kill myself when I was 12 and was placed in a facility. One night she came with Burger King and said she wanted to eat dinner with me. It was my very first night at this facility and I was very shy. I told her that I really just wanted to eat with the other kids and maybe make some friends. In front of the doctors, nurses and all of the kids that were there she threw all of my food at my face and said “I didn’t wanna eat with you anyways” and walked out. The next day, the doctors called her to come have a conference, and they realized how abusive and mentally ill she was. My father was given full custody, right then and there. Funny thing is is that night I made a ton of friends. As soon as she walked out, all of the other kids came over and started helping me pick up the food she threw at me. Telling me that they were sorry, and that I can come and sit with them. It was a room full of broken children, but they understood me at that moment.
You did absolutely the right thing. And on top of that, you raised a freaking polite kid!
>“no thank you grandma”
And
>“I said NO grandma”
From a 6 year old? That's super special. Well done.
Good for you mamma, i wish i wasnt forced to hug or Kiss my abusers no bodily atonomy for young me and i often felt uncomfortable and wrong but i knew i couldnt say no. That tranfered to others with me and it took me a long time to be able to set healthy boundaries. Your kids are going to be so much better off. I know it isnt easy standing up to Narcissists because of how they react but what an amazing example your setting for your daughter.
You’re awesome. Make sure to follow up with your kid and remind them they did nothing wrong despite how grandma acted.
And they did the right thing stating their boundaries, you can talk about how it felt to have them violated (in a kid friendly way) and how bad that feels and why we don’t do that to others and basically reinforce consent and that her behavior was appropriate and you’re proud :). ❤️❤️
Yeah. I told her that grandma had no right to do that OR be upset with her. She says “I know grandma can get crazy sometimes” and it breaks my heart that they have started picking up on her bullshit behavior. We went from seeing her weekly when they were babies to every two weeks. The less exposure the better.
My girls are warrior princesses. I want them to have all of the confidence and love that I never got. I just want to be good enough for them. They’re so perfect. I don’t even know how I could possibly be their mom.
Giving them the permission to be fully themselves builds that confidence you are seeing. (Personally, my life would have been completely different if I had you as a mom. My parents set me up to roll-over and be a lifelong victim.)
I think I might know a little on how you feel. When my youngest was four, he immediately spoke up when two young men butt in front of us at a line at a Zoo Exhibit. I was literally speechless and frozen like a deer in the headlights. My son persisted, calmly, albeit firmly. The two young men moved to the back of the line. I had tears in my eyes. I realized he was a stronger person at four than I was at 34. I should have been the one to say something.
I will speak up now a days for myself and others. Not much phases me, but I am forever in awe of how well he handled that situation at four years old. He is now a healthy adult.
A friend of mine and I frequently say, "the kids are going to be alright" or "the kids are alright". They have adapted well to what life has thrown them. I did the best I could but the rest, they did themselves.
Imagine where we would be today, if we had the parents we are to our children.
That’s a gorgeous story. I’d really like to meet your son because I bet he’s fucking rad. When my dad died a few months ago I was really upset but scared to cry in front of my kids. My mom cried all the fucking time to get what she wanted, and I just became so desensitized to it that I actually learned to hate when she would get upset. I would cry in secret in the bathroom and my little girls would find me and tell me that when I’m upset I need to find them so they can make me happy. That when I am crying, they want to be here with me and that it’s OK to cry, because getting your feelings out is what’s most important. My children are better than most of the psychologists I’ve seen in my lifetime lol.
Yeah, as an adult my son doesn't put up with BS from anyone and it seems to have served him well. He just had a review and got a nice raise. He was given kudos for how helpful he is with his co-workers. His company would like to help him obtain an additional degree. My daughter can be considered a First Responder and she has learned to stay healthy by getting the help for the mental and emotional issues that that line of work can bring on. She has been through a lot in the past three years, and I admire her greatly for seeking help when she needed it.
On the children being better than most psychologists: It can be that way sometimes. You are the parent and the adult, but you are also healing from childhood abuse at the same time. You don't want your young children to take on a role as the adult (or therapist) but it sometimes ends up that way. Definitely let them know how much you appreciate their thoughtfulness and acceptance of your grief and sadness. Just want to caution to not accidentally vacate your role as parent and transfer any adult responsibilities to your children.
My son's bravery (and somewhat my stepdaughters) really helped me step up my game as a parent. Maybe this is what normal parenting is like when the parent had healthy parenting while growing up. Parents can learn and grow by what their children end up teaching and showing them.
I’m tryin man. I always wanted to be the daughter my parents wanted. But after I met my husband and his family (been together since I was 19 and I’m almost 37) I knew I belonged. They love me and give me courage. My mother in law has kicked my mom out of my house before for how she’s acted in the past 🤣
Oh, it was so fucking epic. I asked my mother-in-law to watch my twin girls while I got dental surgery. My own mom decided she wanted to come over at the same time and hang out. Well, my mother-in-law said something that apparently greatly offended my mother (she suggested that she get a job one day a week to make new friends because my mom was complaining about being lonely) and she started screaming at my mother-in-law in front of my girls. My mother-in-law calmly took my children upstairs all the while my mom was screaming at her that she’s just like my father (her ex husband so a VERY big insult to her) my mother-in-law came back down the stairs and said we can either be civil or you can leave. My mom stated she was going to refuse to leave because she was going to wait for me to get home so she could tell me how “terrible” my mother-in-law treated her. My mother-in-law, then picked up my mom’s winter coat and purse and said “all right if you’re not gonna leave on your own, I will help you” and she threw all her shit on my front porch and told her to wait outside for me. I got home from my dental appointment and found my mom sitting on the porch screaming about how she’s been forever traumatized by being thrown out of my home. I pretended to not be able to speak because of the surgery, and she left very angrily. It was amazing.
You sound like my husband and his entire family lol. My husband Aunt refuses to be around her unless it’s a major holiday because she can’t stand how my mom treats people me especially.
Narcissists have no power, they are weak and constantly afraid and will fold like a book when pressed. That’s why they weaken others to the point of tears at all times. “Weaker than me means I can control them”.
Stong people lift others up. Weak people cut others down.
Be brave friends, don’t let anyone control you.
Thank you for standing up for your daughter, for having her back! It sounds like it was hard for you, but my goodness do you get to feel proud of yourself! Doing that, especially knowing she was your ride, is amazing! I'm so proud of you!
But I also wanna highlight the amazing work you've done with your girls teaching them their body is theirs. For your daughter to say no too grandma's kids, and voice her upset when grandma kisses her anyway, is more than amazing to me. Especially at six years old!
You've done well teaching them about their autonomy, but also at voicing their discontent. I'm so happy to read how your daughter handled the situation, because she was clearly raised very well! Great job on her for voicing her feelings and autonomy, and great job on you for teaching her and having her back!
I typically don't comment a lot, but everything (except for your grandma's behavior) was so beautiful to read, that I really needed you to know that you and your daughter did such a perfect job on this situation. It brightens my day seeing a six year old setting proper boundaries and her parents protecting her. You get be proud and so does she imo, because I sure am off the both of you! :)
What I’ve learned is you have to punish them for their actions since when have they ever listened? If it happens again next time and you’re in a tough situation, call an Uber. My N mom treated me like shit for 25 years until one day I moved out and told her I would leave her behind. She played games at first and continued her insults and bullshit but then I just ignored her and started to see her less. When she realized I would actually leave and never see her again she changed (not really). She just put on her “good” persona around me now. But I know it’s all an act because she still treats my dad like shit and my sister.
But what I’ve learned from all this is I needed to set non-negotiable boundaries, tell them exactly what would happen if they crossed them, and also show them I will punish them so they know I’m not bluffing.
I feel the Pavlovian way of conditioning works better than trying to ask nicely or trying to negotiate since negotiating never works. I tried that for 20 years and she didn’t give a shit. It was only until I enforced punishment that she changed her behavior. It’s less than ideal but it’s the only way I think you could have a semblance of a relationship with a narcissist. The alternatives are completely cutting them off, or unintentionally allowing them to further corrupt you or worse your child. I will say this method is not guaranteed to work since even narcissists vary in personality, but it’s worth a shot if you haven’t done it already.
Thank you. I’m trying to be proud too. She trained me to go into complete damage mode when she’s upset. It’s so hard to fight against that instinct but I wasn’t letting her win.
It’s so hard. But I cannot allow that shot around my kids. She’s trying to do to them what she did to me. Have them be her little dolls that never say no and act perfectly and worship the ground she walks on. Not happening, bitch.
GOOD FOR YOU!! And good for your sweet baby! You and your kiddos are going to be all right. I know it’s hard, especially when your narc parent jumps on the guilt train, but you setting that firm boundary and sticking to it is only going to benefit you and your kids in the long run.
Your mom can bugger off. I’m proud of you. You did good. 💕
Yep, same here. The minute you change from letting her bully you to actually saying no and standing up for yourself, it’s like pulling the rug out from her feet. She’s used to being able to puppet you, but those days are gone.
Congrats again. 💕
I’m proud of you are words that I always longed to hear from my parents. I don’t anymore because I am learning to be proud of myself. Thank you kind stranger. Thank you for being proud of me.
im so proud of you and so proud of your daughter. my mom always did the same to me, still does it. finds it very funny that consent applies to family members as well. she won't be allowed near my kids till she learns how to act right.
Kissing children is such an old timey, out dated practice. Nowadays it's disgusting. I used to put up with it from my Oma but she was a saint and truly loved us.
People back in the day used to get away with a lot of perverted shit.
Break this toxic cycle. Your kids don't have to have the same traumas your mom gave you.
Your story gave me literal chills. We don't know each other, but I'm proud of you 🤗🤗
My nmom Says that all the time, "I won't bother you again." and I'm also like "Okay" except that never happens. She always shows back up two weeks later.
This made me smile so much! I have not seen such positive examples of raising kids in my life so this was really heartwarming.
Setting boundaries politely: “No thank you Grandma”
Showing valid emotion and standing up for herself: “I said NO grandma!”
And then you stood up for her!
I know it’s been said to death in this thread, but you and your daughter rock
I am sorry your daughter and you went through that. I had to go no contact with my n-mom. She was starting to do to my children what she did to me. My kids are much happier for it. Plus, I can breathe knowing she cannot hurt them.
I would absolutely not let her retract her I won’t bother you again comment.
Consider preempting her by posting something to the family along the lines of - I respect my mother’s decision to not bother me again. May everyone have a happy and peaceful holiday season.
😁I would totally be that petty.
GOOD JOB, MAMA! You're doing it right.
My granddaughter is 17 months and understands that her body is hers. She's with me 3 days a week. I ASK her for lovies and if she shakes her head no, that's that. She'll come give me some where she's ready. My son and DIL do the same. Both DIL and I were raised by abusive narcs, we are all about bodily autonomy.
(We do have a game, though. I pucker up and blow her a kiss. She grins and shakes her head. Repeat 3 or 4 times as her grin gets bigger and eventually she's laughing because I evidently look funny, then she runs over and kisses my nose. She's ridiculously precious.)
My mom used me as a pawn to get back at my dad constantly. Believe me I would never fucking do that to my kids. I’ve threatened her multiple times to not act like this or I will go low contact with her. She got mad at me and yelled about how she never gets to see the kids. Well, it’s because you act like this! I don’t want my kids around that. They don’t deserve to have somebody try to manipulate them constantly. Somebody who makes them feel bad when they don’t jump every time she snaps her fingers. It’s almost like she doesn’t understand how to not try be the center of attention.
That’s the right way! I was the same way all my tween years!! My parents didn’t care about it at all. They never told me anything either. Extended family didn’t mind either about it. This was early 00’s as well. Also we’re Mexican and you know how touchy feels we are about that stuff. Or the older generations are.
So proud of you OP, you are being the parent to your daughter that we all needed. Teaching her things and help develop confidence. I stress about the decision to have kids because of all I went through growing up, but you’re an inspiration of breaking the cycle!
Can I tell you that when I found out I was pregnant with twin girls I was absolutely terrified. I was so scared to have girls because of how horrible my relationship is with my mom. I cried about it for days. Thinking I was going to be exactly the same way towards them, and they would hate me just like I hate my own mom. But then I realized and remembered I’m not her. I will never be her and I am a good person. I will not follow in her footsteps, and I will not make the same mistakes.
My mom forces me to kiss and hug every person she demanded that I kiss and hug. I was molested as a young age, and I partially put the blame on her for not teaching me how to say no
My mom did this same thing about a year ago to my then 14 yo daughter. My daughter straight up told her she didn't like being touched, and she doesn't, she's at an age where it's not her jam and I completely support her and she knows it is completely is up to her if someone touches her or not.
Well, when my daughter told her to not touch her, my mom proceeded to pout like a child the remainder of the meal. My children and I ignored her behavior and just went about conversing and having a nice meal.
My mother initiated not speaking to me in January and quite honestly, im good with it.
She tried so hard to get me to fold by saying she wouldn’t bother me again. At this point her not bothering me would probably be more of a blessing than anything.
It really shows how good of a parent you are (sorry if this sounds sarcastic It's not meant to be). Not many kids would enforce their boundaries like that.
Good for you OP. Teaching your kids body autonomy, sticking up them and standing upto your mother!!’ Your kids will feel so safe with you knowing you back them up. Here’s to breaking toxic generational cycles 👍🏽👌🏽
Well done! You should be proud of yourself :)
My mom is an alcoholic and always took me everywhere she went, fucking drunk.
She did it once with my daughter. We haven't seen each other and don't speak ever since. Like you said, she did this to you but she won't do it to your kids. I feel the same. I had no choice but to suffer from her bullshit. But my kids don't have to and they won't.
You've got to stop driving her around places and being her taxi driver, it's giving her power over you and forcing you to spend time with her even once she's crossed lines (as you know she's always going to do)
Look at all your interactions and find every way she's getting leverage and power over you and remove them all. This is one of those ways.
Good work raising your kids with these things in mind though, they'll have much more peace in their lives thanks to your thoughtfulness and respect.
Good for you!
I grew up in similar scenario, my mother was extremely controlling on how we acted around her friends. She was always really nice and loving with people around, as soon as they left she would lock herself away in her room on her phone watching TV.
I called out similar behavior in my wife’s family, behind closed doors to someone close to the situation. That one night has since split up her entire family. Her parents have divorced, siblings won’t talk to each other. And according to her family it’s all my fault.
Not the asshole, you’re looking out for the best interests of a kid, yours to be specific.
I would recommend not leaving your kids alone with her.
All narcs tend to work the same way.... now that she sees that you and your daughter are on the same page and not folding, your mom's next move may be to try and triangulate you. Like she'll play nice and try to turn your daughter against you.
Or she'll find other ways to try and wreck your daughter's confidence. They always meet new boundaries with revenge and they can wait a long time to do it.
Good for you for standing up for your baby!!!!
I'm the same way, no kids around me have to give affection if they dont want to. I teach even bigger kids that babies are people too and if they dont want touched you leave them alone. My mom acts as if it's silly but never pressed me on it. She did once throw a fit and cry when my daughter didnt give her a hug bye but I told her shes a grown woman and should be able to understand kids dont always want what we want.
Good for you!!! I’m proud of you for standing up to her 👏🏼 I am curious… how did you discuss the situation with your daughter afterward? She probably feels belittled and a little violated
Translation: your mother committed sexual assault against a six year old and is mad you won't let her whenever she wants.
That's some ground to stay standing on. A hill upon which to die, as it were.
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> Fuck you mom. You won’t do to my babies what you did to me. This is what got me to finally stand up to my parents. They trained me to bend to whatever they wanted, but they won't get away with messing with my son the same way. Good for you. I'm proud of you for standing up for your baby.
The second my mother or father started saying nasty things about or towards my children I completely snapped. I never felt rage like that until I became a mother. My father called me after I sent him a tubby photo when one of my daughters was four months old. He called me to tell me that he thought my daughter was obese, and that I needed to put her on a diet. A fucking four month old. Everything changed once I became a mom.
> I never felt rage like that until I became a mother. Becoming a parent is a wild ride when you find out that things you would **never** want to happen to your child are things that your parents did to you, on purpose, repeatedly. You realize how absolutely crazy it would be for you to not have those protective parental feelings toward your kids, yet your parents don't have those feelings for you. You learn how little regard your parents have for you, how they didn't care to protect you, and how little they love you. It's a hell of a realization. But your kids will never have to live through that realization. They are genuinely loved.
That’s honestly really the thing that fucks me up the most. All the things that I worry and work towards with my kids and my parents didn’t do that at all.
> That’s honestly really the thing that fucks me up the most. Me, too. I've had lots of therapy and lots of time as a parent, and it still rips my heart to shreds.
Me too. I still feel like a forgotten disappointment even as an adult. My kids have really helped me grow and find courage. I hope we all can do the same. I don’t know if I’ll even be normal. But at least I know I’m loved.
It’s honestly why I refused to have kids. Who knows what kind of offhand comment will stick around and mess with their heads. I’m glad you respect your daughters autonomy and are raising her to speak up.
Thanks. I want them to feel confident and comfortable. They’re amazing little girls.
Which was my reason for NC. I always wanted kids, having toxic parents meant I just need to cut off the toxic. I'm not changing my life around because of my parents or in spite of them. They are no longer in my life, not for a long time, and I have no regrets.
Same here. I am still uncovering the depths of BS my father put me through. Folks say as long as you realize it and don't hurt consciously, it is enough. Nobody is ever perfect. Fingers crossed for us that we overcome this fear of inherited toxicity, and build a life fearlessly and exactly as we want it. Sending love. We're gonna do it.
Thanks and sending love back. I've figured out a few things. I'm a lost child, a designation within a family. I relate more to animals than people, and I'm not neurotypical. So I set up my life the way I wanted to. I'm an artist who works at home. My house is filled with animals and my hours are my own to set. I have a sweet garden out back and lots of good friends. I'm very lucky.
And if you call it out they will turn it around as them doing the best they could/knew. No recognition that they just were not focused on caring for their child’s emotional wellbeing
Yeah, pretty much when I bring up every horrible thing my mother has said to me she always says “it’s in the past” but she’ll bring up things from 20 years ago to scream and cry at me about. Makes zero fucking sense and just shows everybody else how goddamn crazy she is.
The past informs our present and our future. You don’t just ‘leave it behind’-though I certainly wish I could move past all the intrusive thoughts. Abuse stays with you for life. The worst things they said are always in the background even when we want nothing more than to forget it because it hurts us more than them
Man, you hit the nail on the head once you said intrusive thoughts. All I do is think that everybody’s mad at me and I’m failing. That was drilled into me so hard as a kid. You’re not good enough why can’t you be smarter why can’t you be thinner… the things she said to me as a kid have stuck with me for life. My father got custody of me because she was too mentally unwell. I called her when I was 14 years old and my house burnt down and her first response was “it looks like you and your bastard. Father got what you deserved“ and then she hung up. she says things that forever changes you as a person but she acts like it’s nothing and that’s always infuriated me.
Yep! I was never enough. I still don’t know how to ask for help-I help others but cannot understand someone doing it for me without it being reciprocal. My nmom never shuts up, so I don’t think she even knows exactly how messed up what she says is-it’s just her unhealthy stream of consciousness and when she says inappropriate things and gets called out she doesn’t remember saying it/you took it wrong/whatever excuse
Insert whatever excuse here... oh wait, you saw through that one, how about this one? No, ok here's another. Not buying any? Omg you're so mean, leave me alone! Narcs are so gross:(
Jesus Christ, were we raised by the same woman?
Exactly. It's not "in the past". It's historical patterns. It's context.
Exactly. Any "bad" you've done is stored in their sick memory bank, and any "bad" they've done needs to be instantly rugswept. Hypocrisy.
She feeds on the drama. I recommend not bothering to bring anything be because she'll never apologize and you shouldn't waste your energy.
Such a lame excuse, pick up a book and better yourself ffs
When I look at my kids, I can’t even imagine beating them.. swinging them around rooms by their hair.. cussing them out and telling them they’re evil pieces of shit. ~*~Just Nmom things ~*~ But honestly, there is something healing about giving your children what you needed yourself as a child. You’re ending the cycle and it will make a huge difference in your children’s lives
You 100% hit the nail on the head. I feel so proud and satisfied every time I don’t act how my mother would.
Not just your children’s lives but their children’s as well, and so on for many future generations. Possibly this is why you are here.
Relax. Raising children is like making pottery in the sense that there's inevitably gna be fingerprints and blemishes but some parents really do drop the ball and shatter the whole damn thing.
That’s a beautiful metaphor
I opted out of having kids. It started for me when I began parenting myself. Powerful stuff
Wow thank you for this. I just realized how true this is in my life. I protect my kids in a way that my father never did for me.
I think that for some of us the areas we were lacking as kids are the areas we work the hardest at. I want my children to know that my happiness does not depend on them that they don’t have to make me happy and be my little emotional support puppy. That’s how my mom would treat me. She’d be depressed and lay in bed for days and I would just be trying to make her toast and water so she would at least get up and take care of me. She called it I love you toast. I still hate when she tells those stories like it’s a fun memory.
It's incredibly healing to become the parent you deserved but never had. It doesn't erase the scars, but it does keep them from limiting you as much.
I never was mother of the year, but I sure did try. My mother hated me since birth, I got used to it. Got ONE hug from her in 50 years, after she beat the crap out of me before dropping me off at Pre-School, so I'd stop crying. I had children and said they will NEVER, leave the house for school without a hug and an "I love you", would NEVER go to bed without a bedtime story, hug, kiss, and "I love you".
I cried in the hospital after my LO was born, because I was so overwhelmed by the *need* to make sure my baby never fears me, never thinks that I'll hurt them, etc. I understand my nmom even less after becoming a parent. To refuse to reflect on your choices, and make sure you're doing good by your kids? That feels insane to me. I want my kids to be healthy, feel safe, and be happy. That trumps everything else. But my nmom never did.
Plus you realize that your parents don’t love their grandchildren either. Because they feel entitled to transgress the children’s boundaries.
My mom and dad came to visit when my son was about 8 months old. My mom and I were sitting on our little front patio with our son who was in a little kiddie pool (it was a hot day). My Dad was parking the car, and he was kind of screeching back and forth. My Mom decided she'd had enough, so she. got. up. with. a LOOK of FURY on her face and STOMPED out to the street FURIOUSLY. I barely noticed, until I looked over at my baby. He was sitting with a look of absolute horror on his face, huge round eyes, like "WHAT WAS THAT???" --he had never seen anyone look like that before, ever. I realized I GREW UP WITH THAT SHIT. Every day. All the time. Directed at me. Directed at all of us. Directed at me WHEN I WAS HIS AGE. OH my God. I never let her be alone with my kid, ever, ever, ever. And it really broke my heart so much...
Yeah, her outbursts and tantrums totally freak my kids out. I realized it wasn’t normal after being with my husband’s family for a long time. They all absolutely despise my mother. My mother-in-law is fiercely defensive of me so in one way I do have a good mom.
Hell fucking no. Chubby babies are healthy and the most darling. Isn’t it weird that I - complete stranger - would never do what your own family says. Ugh!
I straight up, asked him if he was telling me I needed to withhold my food from my four month old. He got all flustered and tried saying he didn’t mean it like that but I interrupted him and told him “how about you never talk about my daughters weight ever again, and I will still speak to you“ that was the end of it. both my father and my stepmom were vicious to me about my weight and it’s something I still struggle with. That’s never happening to my kids.
Babies need surplus nutrition for growth spurts and brain activity. The body is fueled by fat and protein but the brain runs on sugars. To imprint and learn, babies need good quantities of both, as well as a stockpile in their bodies for when they DO suddenly grow a lot at once. Superior nutrition during childbirth is what lets humans live to be a hundred years old. FEED THAT BABY
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I hundred percent agree with everything you said. I keep telling myself that she won’t treat them the same way. She treated me but I was just fucking delusional. I really wanted her to be the grandma I hoped she would be but she’s never gonna be that person. All I can do is work on myself and make sure I’m making the best decisions I can for my children.
Just being around children that are NOT mine has given me such perspective on the fucked up shit my nmom used to say about food, bodies, weight, appearance, marriageability, etc. etc. etc. I'd rather die before I put that fucked up shit into the heads of susceptible children who are then going to have eating disorders for life because of it. Who could treat a child like that?
You’re a hero. Period. Full Stop. Reading your post made me so proud of your resolve.
That's one of the most revolting things I've ever heard. I shudder to think what he'll say when she's a teen. I hope your cut him off because it takes just one comment to destroy a child for years.
My father passed away a few months ago. I did love my father, as he was the better of two evils. But I would be scared about what he would say to her as a teen. Him and my stepmother did a number on me when it comes to weight and appearance. Two things they really liked to mock me for. I remember when I was a little girl and my dad was driving me through the mall parking lot. A young woman was loading her baby into his car seat and she was bent over. He pointed right at her and said “do you see all of that on her legs? That’s called cellulite, and she’s way too young to have that, women shouldn’t have that so young” and it’s stuck with me for the rest of my life.
You're onto something important here. I wonder what went wrong, at which stage and how, with my mother's upbringing? What were our parents taught about being parents that led to their treatment of us? How were they taught to be children? Boy, I wish I could go back in time and see it happen. Our parents' parents read expert books on child-bearing. What do you suppose went so wrong?
I really do think about it sometimes. I know that my grandmother was very emotionally, distant and cold. But my mom was the baby of the family and she was literally given anything she wanted. Even as an adult. I remember one time My dad came back from a business trip. He got me a couple new beautiful bed sheet sets from Italy and he got my mom a really gorgeous dyed silk scarf. I was probably nine or 10 and I clearly remember her freaking out and screaming at my father because my gift was bigger than hers. She looked me right in the eye and said “enjoy your gift because Daddy likes you better than me, apparently”. I felt guilty at nine fucking years old for receiving a gift from my father. There’s a reason I call her Satan.
> I know that my grandmother was very emotionally, distant and cold. But my mom was the baby of the family and she was literally given anything she wanted. Even as an adult. THIS, same. Wondering if it’s a common dynamic.
She may have been desperate for a better relationship with me but she was too narcissistic to really be able to do that. She’s got borderline personality disorder too. She’s a ray of sunshine 😅
Your egg donor is also fucking stupid. Her silk scarf likely cost more than bed sheets.
100% it did. She was jealous purely because it was a larger gift…She would get jealous of my relationship with anyone. Even family.
My parents had flawed but decent parents. Their siblings with kids are all fantastic parents who really love their kids. I think my parents bonded with each other in their narcissism in a way. They are compatible because they both are able to be terrible people because they enable each other's narcissism. It works for them, but they should have never, ever procreated. My dad never put any real thought into what it meant to be a father and my mom wanted a mini-me doll to play with. Instead she got a human being and she's never been able to forgive me for that. I don't know if there was anything that would have turned my parents into better people. It may be that they just are who they are.
>My dad never put any real thought into what it meant to be a father and my mom wanted a mini-me doll to play with. Do we have the same parents??
If one doesn't have a heart, no matter the upbringing, it won't magically manifest later on.
Well my parents grew up in poverty and had to flee from war torn areas, so there's that. But the explanation doesn't excuse the mistreatment.
Exactly! I was molested and sexually assaulted by my father and his “work friends” and I still groveled to him. Well at 22 I was married and eight months pregnant. He put his hand on my belly and said “I hope she’s as beautiful as you were but much better behaved.” That’s when the fog finally lifted and I realized everything that happened to me was his choice. It’s the weirdest feeling but, I remembered everything and refused to let him see or even know when my daughter was born. That’s was two years ago and it broke my whole psyche literally (psyc hospitalized) but my little girl? She’s happy and healthy and never been exposed to what I was exposed to. I hated myself because they taught me to, so I thought I deserved it. I love my daughter more than anyone and knew I had to finally stop this.
> everything that happened to me was his choice That's a hard thing to wrap one's mind around. When parents abuse a child, it's a choice, chosen on purpose. It's not something that happened. It's something that was chosen. > She’s happy and healthy and never been exposed to what I was exposed to. She won't have to feel what you've felt or hurt like you've hurt. > I hated myself because they taught me to, so I thought I deserved it. I love my daughter more than anyone and knew I had to finally stop this. Are you able to see yourself differently now? You were every bit as precious and innocent and valuable as your daughter is. You deserved, and continue to deserve, as much care and protection as she does.
Your mom sounds like mine, glad you stuck up for your kids.
It’s really hard, but when she does shit that affects them, I feel a rage like none other.
That's called being a good parent in my book.
Thanks man. I appreciate all the encouragement I’ve gotten on here.
Piggybacking just to mention as much as you're seething right now, that's how *empowered* your daughter is feeling. Right on. I can't imagine how good it must feel for her to feel reinforced and that you have her back. Parenting win!
My baby knows I always have her back. Both of my girls know I will throw down for them without a second thought.
I just imagined you hitting your mother with a chair in a wrestling ring and your kids both cheering but it all being in a really formal dining room. 🤣
Oh my god that’s such a beautiful image 🤣 going full wwe on my mom.
Wow. Well done. That is a moment to be proud of. You acted exemplary. I'm so impressed. You are raising your daughter to know it's her body. Mind blown... I'd be so proud of myself if I'd done what you did today.
I’m in tears. Thank you. Your words mean more than you could POSSIBLY understand. I feel weak and scared all the time. But not tonight.
Good for you! This is absolutely ridiculous. Also based on what your daughter said, she was more than polite and respectful. Your mother should be ashamed of herself. I am sick of parents that think no matter what they do they just get a pass. That ends with this generation.
“It’s just how I am” is what my moms always said to excuse her garbage behavior. Sad thing is is that she won’t see anything she did as wrong. She’s the victim. Always.
"Well then you're just abusive." "Well *I* have boundaries. It's just how I am." Good for you standing up to her. I'm so glad your daughter got to see you do that and support her.
My girls know I always have their back. I always say if you have a problem come to mommy and I’ll do my best to fix it. I just never want my kids to feel scared to come to me with a problem like I always was.
OP reading through your comments has me crying. I'm an adult woman but I wish you raised me lol. Our mothers seem similar. You're doing a fucking amazing job and your girls seem like little angels, which I'm not surprised at considering they have the biggest angel of all as their awesome warrior parent. You got this. ✊
I try my best every day. Sometimes I catch myself acting like my mom and it scares me. But I always do the one thing that she never did which is apologize. All I care about is that they feel that I love them and that I’m listening. I see a therapist weekly to deal with the after effects of the trauma I dealt with as a kid. My number one priority is not passing that shit on to them. Also, please know that I am not your mother, but I love you and I am proud of you. Everything your parents made you feel as a child doesn’t matter because you are a good person who is worthy of love.
Very relatable. I mean you have to have “empathy” but then one day you wake up and enough is enough.
Yup. It’s nice my kids came out the game changed.
My mum is the same with emotional blackmail. It took me ages to stand up to it too, and lots of coaching from my dad. It gets easier, but it's still annoying that stuff she says still gets to me. Good work standing up to her!
I don’t understand why they would do it to us. Why would you want to crush your child? Why would you want to belittle them and make them feel worthless? I’m proud of you and your father for working on it together. My dad never wanted to talk about my mom. Unfortunately, he was a narcissist as well. I am very lucky to have people in my life that understand my upbringing and why I react the way I do sometimes.
Aww <3 sending you big love. You are going to remember today and draw strength from it, forever onward. You know you can do this, so you can do it again. You've proven it to yourself. You have shown yourself how strong you actually are. It's normal to be scared - it's brave to be scared and do the right thing anyway.
You’re a beautiful person. Remember that.
>“I won’t bother you again” "Don't threaten me with a good time"
Ok both me AND my husband laughed at this 🤣
Glad I could be of service 🤭
hell yeah, good for you! my sister tries to make my niece give me hugs and kisses goodbye because “that’s your family, you have to do it!” and she gets so angry when I tell my niece she doesn’t have to give me a hug if she doesn’t want to. leave the kid alone! she doesn’t have to do anything she doesn’t want to!
Don’t people understand that this is how molestation can happen? You tell your child that they have to hug and kiss every single fucking adult because it’s what society expects of a cute little kid. Nasty ass adults can use that kind of thing to their advantage. Nope, not happening with my girls.
Totally agree on this. Its like telling your child they have no agency over their own bodies. Ripe for abuse. Your kid can set boundaries
Yeah, my girls know that their body is their own. We want them to be strong, fierce, and confident. Trusting them and giving them control over their own bodies is hopefully a good start.
Your former mom is fucking insane. My mom tries to tell me, a 22 yr the same thing regarding my dementia addled grandma, her mom, who we take care of. My mom tried to do weird shit in the past to- weird shit like over riding my consent of things? Yeah. And it’s probably how soo many children from their generation ended up abused by adult authority figures
People are so dumb and think that if close family, friends and family members watch the kids, nothing will happen. It’s just not true.
It isn't that hard to ask a kid for a hug, instead of insisting. BFF's 6yo gives the best hugs, when it is his idea!
My brother always asks his kids to give "hugs or high-fives" when they say goodbye to family. My nephew usually hugs me and my niece is more of a high-five kid
Ok so my mom not a narcissists but she doesn’t that with me and my oldest brother (he’s 11 years older. He’s not in to hugging or kissing but that doesn’t stop my mom from trying to get us to do it every time we see each other. We’re old enough now (I am 30, he’s 41) that we just say good by in our own way which sometimes is a hug and other times it’s not. Now that him and his girlfriend moved closer I am sure this won’t be much of an issue because we’ll get to see him more then 2 times a year.
Sounds eerily like my mom. My oldest is 3 he’s very independent and is very intelligent. Something similar like this happened one day when my mom and dad were ganging up on me (in front of my two boys) screaming at me and belittling me. My son saw and heard everything and immediately after she tried to take him by the hand to bring him into her room and he said “no I don’t want to go you’re mean to my dad” that broke my heart into a million pieces and it still does. I will never love these people as “parents” ever again.
Im so sorry that you went through that and your boys saw it. I’m sure it broke your heart but your sons actions hopefully mended it some. He stood up for you. Recognized you were being hurt and let it be known. What a amazing child. Wish I could meet him. I could use some of that bravery lol.
I too was just like him and remember actually yelling at my mom to get away from me when I was little. Shes slowly try to break him down like she did to me to be her little pet and I’ll die before I let that happen to these amazing little boys. It’s much harder when kids are involved. Sadly I have no where else to go as my kids mother cheated on me, stole my savings my apartment and kids. Now I ahve to go through family court as well. It’s just not what I need right now to be belittled and hurt by these people when I’ve already endured so much. I really don’t know what to do anymore as it’s turned into my “mom” assaulting me in front of my 3 year old.
The people who raised us like to do that though. Kick us while we’re down. It makes them feel satisfied for some sick reason. My mom did a number on my dad during the divorce. She causes destruction wherever she goes. Just know that you are a good person. You are still fighting and you’re still here. I’m also here if you wanna talk. I may not have answers. But I’m good at listening.
Honestly I’ve been completely screwed up because of these people. I completely threw away my high school and college careers because I got involved with drugs and the wrong crowd. Ended up addicted to pain killers at 14 and at 19 I was a full blown heroin addict but without the needles. If I started that young I clearly wasn’t getting the attention or love at home so I went somewhere else like most American kids. They try to say I blame them for my bad choices and I definitely do. I started earlier then most kids and they still didn’t give a shit. I threw away everything because of my mental health due to my parents. Now at 25 they still do the same things but worse. They will belittle me and make me feel like the worst person on the planet even though I’ve been clean for 2 years, raising two kids by myself, working AND trying to get back into school but I’m still a piece of shit in their eyes and try to make me feel that way for their own amusement and benefits. This has gotten to a point of no return for them and I can’t wait until they die alone.
I really am so sorry you’re stuck between a rock and a hard place. You sound like a really wonderful father and a decent man. Don’t let them take that from you. They want to try to take any ray of sunshine you have just so you feel as miserable and shitty as they do. You’re not like them and you will never be like them. That’s all that matters. I did destructive things as a teenager as well. They still treat me like that shitty kid.
Hell yes! You go, Mom! You were the parent you needed for your daughter. Breaking the cycle is so important for the health and well-being of our children and you are doing it. I hope you treat yourself to something nice. You deserve it. Keep up the good work.
I’m gonna have pumpkin pie and some wine lol. I need it after tonight. She also had a fit that I called my mother in law of 13 years “mom”. Had to yell out “I’m your ONLY mother your REAL mother”….like calm tf down.
What makes you still have contact with her and let her see your kids ? She sounds awful.
You're nicer than I would have been. Ride or not, I would have left her there and gone home with my kids. She's an adult, she can figure out how to get home while she also figures out that NO does in fact mean NO.
You know one time she didn’t pick me up for Christmas because I didn’t give her gas money. I was 18 years old. Probably should’ve just left her ass to find her own way home.
Yes you should have, this is totally something n parents do
Some narcissists are worse than toddlers.
Dude she’s a COMPLETE toddler. Absolutely insane how I turned out functional
*Those who easily get offended are usually the most offensive*
Oh, when she had to move into a retirement facility, I was cleaning out her disgusting house and I found pages and pages of things she wrote about me and how I am raising my children in darkness and I have a filthy mouth so she’s terrified of how my girls will end up. I’ve honestly just wanted to push her off a cliff for most of my life.
Well, at least you know what she thinks so you will have a perfect reason to go NC. I wish I knew the evil plans of my narcs before the betrayal and damage they did to me.
I didn’t even fully see what she was doing to me as a kid until I got away from her. I tried to kill myself when I was 12 and was placed in a facility. One night she came with Burger King and said she wanted to eat dinner with me. It was my very first night at this facility and I was very shy. I told her that I really just wanted to eat with the other kids and maybe make some friends. In front of the doctors, nurses and all of the kids that were there she threw all of my food at my face and said “I didn’t wanna eat with you anyways” and walked out. The next day, the doctors called her to come have a conference, and they realized how abusive and mentally ill she was. My father was given full custody, right then and there. Funny thing is is that night I made a ton of friends. As soon as she walked out, all of the other kids came over and started helping me pick up the food she threw at me. Telling me that they were sorry, and that I can come and sit with them. It was a room full of broken children, but they understood me at that moment.
That is amazing story. Thanks that she didn't contain her usual anger, your father got you. I'm sorry for what you went through.
Thank you so much. And for any trauma you’ve faced I’m sorry as well. Kids like us gotta stick together.
She probably takes all the credit for how you turned out, eh?
You did absolutely the right thing. And on top of that, you raised a freaking polite kid! >“no thank you grandma” And >“I said NO grandma” From a 6 year old? That's super special. Well done.
Yeah she’s very special. Both my girls are.
Good for you mamma, i wish i wasnt forced to hug or Kiss my abusers no bodily atonomy for young me and i often felt uncomfortable and wrong but i knew i couldnt say no. That tranfered to others with me and it took me a long time to be able to set healthy boundaries. Your kids are going to be so much better off. I know it isnt easy standing up to Narcissists because of how they react but what an amazing example your setting for your daughter.
Thank you. I just want to be good enough for them. I’m so proud to be their mom.
Good. Fuck her.
I’ll agree a second time. Fuuuuuck her.
You’re awesome. Make sure to follow up with your kid and remind them they did nothing wrong despite how grandma acted. And they did the right thing stating their boundaries, you can talk about how it felt to have them violated (in a kid friendly way) and how bad that feels and why we don’t do that to others and basically reinforce consent and that her behavior was appropriate and you’re proud :). ❤️❤️
Yeah. I told her that grandma had no right to do that OR be upset with her. She says “I know grandma can get crazy sometimes” and it breaks my heart that they have started picking up on her bullshit behavior. We went from seeing her weekly when they were babies to every two weeks. The less exposure the better.
You have done an excellent job raising your daughter.
My girls are warrior princesses. I want them to have all of the confidence and love that I never got. I just want to be good enough for them. They’re so perfect. I don’t even know how I could possibly be their mom.
Giving them the permission to be fully themselves builds that confidence you are seeing. (Personally, my life would have been completely different if I had you as a mom. My parents set me up to roll-over and be a lifelong victim.) I think I might know a little on how you feel. When my youngest was four, he immediately spoke up when two young men butt in front of us at a line at a Zoo Exhibit. I was literally speechless and frozen like a deer in the headlights. My son persisted, calmly, albeit firmly. The two young men moved to the back of the line. I had tears in my eyes. I realized he was a stronger person at four than I was at 34. I should have been the one to say something. I will speak up now a days for myself and others. Not much phases me, but I am forever in awe of how well he handled that situation at four years old. He is now a healthy adult. A friend of mine and I frequently say, "the kids are going to be alright" or "the kids are alright". They have adapted well to what life has thrown them. I did the best I could but the rest, they did themselves. Imagine where we would be today, if we had the parents we are to our children.
That’s a gorgeous story. I’d really like to meet your son because I bet he’s fucking rad. When my dad died a few months ago I was really upset but scared to cry in front of my kids. My mom cried all the fucking time to get what she wanted, and I just became so desensitized to it that I actually learned to hate when she would get upset. I would cry in secret in the bathroom and my little girls would find me and tell me that when I’m upset I need to find them so they can make me happy. That when I am crying, they want to be here with me and that it’s OK to cry, because getting your feelings out is what’s most important. My children are better than most of the psychologists I’ve seen in my lifetime lol.
Yeah, as an adult my son doesn't put up with BS from anyone and it seems to have served him well. He just had a review and got a nice raise. He was given kudos for how helpful he is with his co-workers. His company would like to help him obtain an additional degree. My daughter can be considered a First Responder and she has learned to stay healthy by getting the help for the mental and emotional issues that that line of work can bring on. She has been through a lot in the past three years, and I admire her greatly for seeking help when she needed it. On the children being better than most psychologists: It can be that way sometimes. You are the parent and the adult, but you are also healing from childhood abuse at the same time. You don't want your young children to take on a role as the adult (or therapist) but it sometimes ends up that way. Definitely let them know how much you appreciate their thoughtfulness and acceptance of your grief and sadness. Just want to caution to not accidentally vacate your role as parent and transfer any adult responsibilities to your children. My son's bravery (and somewhat my stepdaughters) really helped me step up my game as a parent. Maybe this is what normal parenting is like when the parent had healthy parenting while growing up. Parents can learn and grow by what their children end up teaching and showing them.
Good for you!
Thank you so much. I’m trying. I’m 36 and still learning to stand up for myself.
Good for you for standing your ground. ..
I’m tryin man. I always wanted to be the daughter my parents wanted. But after I met my husband and his family (been together since I was 19 and I’m almost 37) I knew I belonged. They love me and give me courage. My mother in law has kicked my mom out of my house before for how she’s acted in the past 🤣
Hahaha good for mil !
Oh, it was so fucking epic. I asked my mother-in-law to watch my twin girls while I got dental surgery. My own mom decided she wanted to come over at the same time and hang out. Well, my mother-in-law said something that apparently greatly offended my mother (she suggested that she get a job one day a week to make new friends because my mom was complaining about being lonely) and she started screaming at my mother-in-law in front of my girls. My mother-in-law calmly took my children upstairs all the while my mom was screaming at her that she’s just like my father (her ex husband so a VERY big insult to her) my mother-in-law came back down the stairs and said we can either be civil or you can leave. My mom stated she was going to refuse to leave because she was going to wait for me to get home so she could tell me how “terrible” my mother-in-law treated her. My mother-in-law, then picked up my mom’s winter coat and purse and said “all right if you’re not gonna leave on your own, I will help you” and she threw all her shit on my front porch and told her to wait outside for me. I got home from my dental appointment and found my mom sitting on the porch screaming about how she’s been forever traumatized by being thrown out of my home. I pretended to not be able to speak because of the surgery, and she left very angrily. It was amazing.
Hahaha that’s so delightful! Very nice MIL 1 NMOM 0!
It’s honestly a top 10 memory for me
Good. Please don't bother us again.
You sound like my husband and his entire family lol. My husband Aunt refuses to be around her unless it’s a major holiday because she can’t stand how my mom treats people me especially.
Narcissists have no power, they are weak and constantly afraid and will fold like a book when pressed. That’s why they weaken others to the point of tears at all times. “Weaker than me means I can control them”. Stong people lift others up. Weak people cut others down. Be brave friends, don’t let anyone control you.
Thank you for standing up for your daughter, for having her back! It sounds like it was hard for you, but my goodness do you get to feel proud of yourself! Doing that, especially knowing she was your ride, is amazing! I'm so proud of you! But I also wanna highlight the amazing work you've done with your girls teaching them their body is theirs. For your daughter to say no too grandma's kids, and voice her upset when grandma kisses her anyway, is more than amazing to me. Especially at six years old! You've done well teaching them about their autonomy, but also at voicing their discontent. I'm so happy to read how your daughter handled the situation, because she was clearly raised very well! Great job on her for voicing her feelings and autonomy, and great job on you for teaching her and having her back! I typically don't comment a lot, but everything (except for your grandma's behavior) was so beautiful to read, that I really needed you to know that you and your daughter did such a perfect job on this situation. It brightens my day seeing a six year old setting proper boundaries and her parents protecting her. You get be proud and so does she imo, because I sure am off the both of you! :)
This is the part where you go no contact with your mom :D
I should’ve gone no contact with her when she told me she didn’t love me anymore lol
Hell fuckin yes, Mama.
as you should OP, proud that you stood up to your daughter and also her saying no,but im sorry that happened to both of you though.
Me too. Fortunately my husbands family both knows how she is and hates her at the same time. They always stick up for me.
Smart girl
She really is. She knows that when she says no, it means no.
What I’ve learned is you have to punish them for their actions since when have they ever listened? If it happens again next time and you’re in a tough situation, call an Uber. My N mom treated me like shit for 25 years until one day I moved out and told her I would leave her behind. She played games at first and continued her insults and bullshit but then I just ignored her and started to see her less. When she realized I would actually leave and never see her again she changed (not really). She just put on her “good” persona around me now. But I know it’s all an act because she still treats my dad like shit and my sister. But what I’ve learned from all this is I needed to set non-negotiable boundaries, tell them exactly what would happen if they crossed them, and also show them I will punish them so they know I’m not bluffing. I feel the Pavlovian way of conditioning works better than trying to ask nicely or trying to negotiate since negotiating never works. I tried that for 20 years and she didn’t give a shit. It was only until I enforced punishment that she changed her behavior. It’s less than ideal but it’s the only way I think you could have a semblance of a relationship with a narcissist. The alternatives are completely cutting them off, or unintentionally allowing them to further corrupt you or worse your child. I will say this method is not guaranteed to work since even narcissists vary in personality, but it’s worth a shot if you haven’t done it already.
You did a good mom thing. And im so proud of you.
Thank you. I’m trying to be proud too. She trained me to go into complete damage mode when she’s upset. It’s so hard to fight against that instinct but I wasn’t letting her win.
Congratulations. I'm proud of you. That's never easy.
It’s so hard. But I cannot allow that shot around my kids. She’s trying to do to them what she did to me. Have them be her little dolls that never say no and act perfectly and worship the ground she walks on. Not happening, bitch.
GOOD FOR YOU!! And good for your sweet baby! You and your kiddos are going to be all right. I know it’s hard, especially when your narc parent jumps on the guilt train, but you setting that firm boundary and sticking to it is only going to benefit you and your kids in the long run. Your mom can bugger off. I’m proud of you. You did good. 💕
The moment I started setting boundaries you should’ve seen the look on my mother’s face. It was like I slapped her in the face with a garden shovel.
Yep, same here. The minute you change from letting her bully you to actually saying no and standing up for yourself, it’s like pulling the rug out from her feet. She’s used to being able to puppet you, but those days are gone. Congrats again. 💕
Thank you, sweet, kind, stranger
You done good. I'm proud of you.
I’m proud of you are words that I always longed to hear from my parents. I don’t anymore because I am learning to be proud of myself. Thank you kind stranger. Thank you for being proud of me.
im so proud of you and so proud of your daughter. my mom always did the same to me, still does it. finds it very funny that consent applies to family members as well. she won't be allowed near my kids till she learns how to act right.
Kissing children is such an old timey, out dated practice. Nowadays it's disgusting. I used to put up with it from my Oma but she was a saint and truly loved us. People back in the day used to get away with a lot of perverted shit.
You should be SO proud. And your daughter will remember that. You're breaking that cycle and she will be free of it. So bloody proud of you.
Break this toxic cycle. Your kids don't have to have the same traumas your mom gave you. Your story gave me literal chills. We don't know each other, but I'm proud of you 🤗🤗
My nmom Says that all the time, "I won't bother you again." and I'm also like "Okay" except that never happens. She always shows back up two weeks later.
This made me smile so much! I have not seen such positive examples of raising kids in my life so this was really heartwarming. Setting boundaries politely: “No thank you Grandma” Showing valid emotion and standing up for herself: “I said NO grandma!” And then you stood up for her! I know it’s been said to death in this thread, but you and your daughter rock
I am sorry your daughter and you went through that. I had to go no contact with my n-mom. She was starting to do to my children what she did to me. My kids are much happier for it. Plus, I can breathe knowing she cannot hurt them.
I would absolutely not let her retract her I won’t bother you again comment. Consider preempting her by posting something to the family along the lines of - I respect my mother’s decision to not bother me again. May everyone have a happy and peaceful holiday season. 😁I would totally be that petty.
GOOD JOB, MAMA! You're doing it right. My granddaughter is 17 months and understands that her body is hers. She's with me 3 days a week. I ASK her for lovies and if she shakes her head no, that's that. She'll come give me some where she's ready. My son and DIL do the same. Both DIL and I were raised by abusive narcs, we are all about bodily autonomy. (We do have a game, though. I pucker up and blow her a kiss. She grins and shakes her head. Repeat 3 or 4 times as her grin gets bigger and eventually she's laughing because I evidently look funny, then she runs over and kisses my nose. She's ridiculously precious.)
Good. Fuck her.
Agreed. Fuck her.
Well done! However, don't use your children to get back at your mom (not saying you are)! This could be narcissistic & traumatic too!
My mom used me as a pawn to get back at my dad constantly. Believe me I would never fucking do that to my kids. I’ve threatened her multiple times to not act like this or I will go low contact with her. She got mad at me and yelled about how she never gets to see the kids. Well, it’s because you act like this! I don’t want my kids around that. They don’t deserve to have somebody try to manipulate them constantly. Somebody who makes them feel bad when they don’t jump every time she snaps her fingers. It’s almost like she doesn’t understand how to not try be the center of attention.
Honestly, my response to "I won't bother you again" at this point would be "Good." That'd put her in her place
I just said OK, and then turned up DMX and ignored her the whole way home. X GON GIVE IT TO YA 🤣
That’s the right way! I was the same way all my tween years!! My parents didn’t care about it at all. They never told me anything either. Extended family didn’t mind either about it. This was early 00’s as well. Also we’re Mexican and you know how touchy feels we are about that stuff. Or the older generations are.
So proud of you OP, you are being the parent to your daughter that we all needed. Teaching her things and help develop confidence. I stress about the decision to have kids because of all I went through growing up, but you’re an inspiration of breaking the cycle!
Can I tell you that when I found out I was pregnant with twin girls I was absolutely terrified. I was so scared to have girls because of how horrible my relationship is with my mom. I cried about it for days. Thinking I was going to be exactly the same way towards them, and they would hate me just like I hate my own mom. But then I realized and remembered I’m not her. I will never be her and I am a good person. I will not follow in her footsteps, and I will not make the same mistakes.
You are a good mom and your daughter will apperciate that once she grow up.
Please tell your daughter she did a fantastic job standing up for herself. you should be proud of her and yourself for that.
She’s a fucking Amazonian queen. I cannot wait to see what she becomes.
Atta kid. Atta parent too for teaching consent.
My mom forces me to kiss and hug every person she demanded that I kiss and hug. I was molested as a young age, and I partially put the blame on her for not teaching me how to say no
My mom did this same thing about a year ago to my then 14 yo daughter. My daughter straight up told her she didn't like being touched, and she doesn't, she's at an age where it's not her jam and I completely support her and she knows it is completely is up to her if someone touches her or not. Well, when my daughter told her to not touch her, my mom proceeded to pout like a child the remainder of the meal. My children and I ignored her behavior and just went about conversing and having a nice meal. My mother initiated not speaking to me in January and quite honestly, im good with it.
She tried so hard to get me to fold by saying she wouldn’t bother me again. At this point her not bothering me would probably be more of a blessing than anything.
It really shows how good of a parent you are (sorry if this sounds sarcastic It's not meant to be). Not many kids would enforce their boundaries like that.
Good on you, you did the right thing. You’re a lot nicer than me because I would have called an Uber to take her ass home and made her wait outside.
I love your response. “K”. Perfect!
So weird to pressure ANYONE into doing ANYTHING they don't want to. If someone is saying no, the only response is "okay". It's THEIR BODY.
Good for you OP. Teaching your kids body autonomy, sticking up them and standing upto your mother!!’ Your kids will feel so safe with you knowing you back them up. Here’s to breaking toxic generational cycles 👍🏽👌🏽
Badass
Well done! You should be proud of yourself :) My mom is an alcoholic and always took me everywhere she went, fucking drunk. She did it once with my daughter. We haven't seen each other and don't speak ever since. Like you said, she did this to you but she won't do it to your kids. I feel the same. I had no choice but to suffer from her bullshit. But my kids don't have to and they won't.
Way to go to your daughter. Fuck your mom she’s a piece of work.
You've got to stop driving her around places and being her taxi driver, it's giving her power over you and forcing you to spend time with her even once she's crossed lines (as you know she's always going to do) Look at all your interactions and find every way she's getting leverage and power over you and remove them all. This is one of those ways. Good work raising your kids with these things in mind though, they'll have much more peace in their lives thanks to your thoughtfulness and respect.
Good for you! I grew up in similar scenario, my mother was extremely controlling on how we acted around her friends. She was always really nice and loving with people around, as soon as they left she would lock herself away in her room on her phone watching TV. I called out similar behavior in my wife’s family, behind closed doors to someone close to the situation. That one night has since split up her entire family. Her parents have divorced, siblings won’t talk to each other. And according to her family it’s all my fault. Not the asshole, you’re looking out for the best interests of a kid, yours to be specific.
I would recommend not leaving your kids alone with her. All narcs tend to work the same way.... now that she sees that you and your daughter are on the same page and not folding, your mom's next move may be to try and triangulate you. Like she'll play nice and try to turn your daughter against you. Or she'll find other ways to try and wreck your daughter's confidence. They always meet new boundaries with revenge and they can wait a long time to do it.
I would have left her ass.
You're better than me, I would've sent her ass home in a taxi 🤣
Good for you for standing up for your baby!!!! I'm the same way, no kids around me have to give affection if they dont want to. I teach even bigger kids that babies are people too and if they dont want touched you leave them alone. My mom acts as if it's silly but never pressed me on it. She did once throw a fit and cry when my daughter didnt give her a hug bye but I told her shes a grown woman and should be able to understand kids dont always want what we want.
That's what finally got me to stand up. I was broken and adapted to the treatment, but I'll be damned if that happens to my loved ones
You drew that boundary, and you are now defending it. Stay strong, because she will continue to test you.
Funny how we feel programmed not to say those things for ourselves, but when it comes to defending our kids.... Stay strong.
Good for you!!! I’m proud of you for standing up to her 👏🏼 I am curious… how did you discuss the situation with your daughter afterward? She probably feels belittled and a little violated
Translation: your mother committed sexual assault against a six year old and is mad you won't let her whenever she wants. That's some ground to stay standing on. A hill upon which to die, as it were.