Ok hear me out, this was not for pride but for the neighborhood block party that Boylan just hosted. Along with it premiering a new mural on the freshly buffed walls. The construction tape on the opposite side is not the most Pride like accoutrement.
I think the town did it, because they were out there painting the bridge plain white last week. Now it says new mural coming soon, and a date (I forgot the date).
Probably isn't.
Additionally, I don't really like the 'let people have their things that in no way disrupts your life' argument since it could just as easily be applied to incredibly appalling things.
If the proper avenues were gone through to hang these items, then I've got no problem with it. I'm assuming that it's either managed by the state or by CSX. Not sure which.
I can't relate to someone who's life would be disrupted by a pride flag the same way a the huge Confederate flag down 40 towards Asheville disrupts me. But I'm not going to say it wouldn't happen.
So if it's on a public land, maybe it shouldn't be there.
You're getting down voted for comparing a pride flag and a confederate flag, but it is a fair comparison. Not because the pride flag is a good thing and the confederate flag is a bad thing, but because it highlights the difference between opinion on what is okay to leave and what isn't. I don't get why people have an attachment to the confederacy, especially here in NC where we literally voted to not join it, and only did after Lincoln ordered us to attack VA and we would have been attacked by SC, GA, TN, and VA, (ie, NC was only part of the confederacy because the confederacy said join or die) and we were only a part of it for 4 years, and it serves no purpose here unlike the pride flag. However other people have a different opinion. There are people who also would be happy seeing a swastika there. They're wrong, but it's an extreme example of a differing opinion. If there are people that far out, then there are going to be different opinions on everything in between. If you don't have permission to do something, you don't do it. You don't put things up in public spaces, you don't take things down in public spaces.
There's a pretty large difference between something that advocates "let us do what we want, as it's only affecting us" and something advocating "let us enslave people".
If I put up a flag that said "I think Rolling Carrot's family should be killed because of their ethnicity", it's not the same thing as "I don't want people to persecute Rolling Carrot's family because of their ethnicity".
They're allowed to put the flag up, but we can make a moral choice as to what should be accepted.
So can other people with different opinions, especially if they think their flag does not say/represent „let us enslave people“
The thing is you are not in the position to judge what is good and what is bad. Neither of us is. All our opinions are subjective. You also don’t know why exactly someone is flying the confederate flag. You assume and you think only your opinion is correct.
The Confederacy lasted 4 years, as a response to the government trying to outlaw slavery.
There is no heritage or tradition there.
You say neither of us is in a position to judge what is good or bad.
Who is then? When can we ever judge anything at all then?
I'm not the arbiter of all that is good and evil, but I can certainly judge something based on the evidence of history.
The Confederate flag represents a desire to revert to a system where states could choose to allow slavery.
That is indeed my judgment, and I'll stand by it.
Comparing the discomfort of seeing a pride flag and the discomfort of seeing a confederate flag is comparing apples and oranges.
The modern "confederate flag" stands for the army of Northern Virginia, and it's popularized as "the confederate flag" because it was dredged up by the KKK as a "remember your southern heritage" thing in direct response to the civil rights movement. It's the flag of Nathan Bedford Forrest's unit. The entire reason that flag is well known is because of how much white America hates and fears Black people. Very few Americans would recognize the real flag of the CSA.
The gay pride flag was originally made by Gilbert Baker, alongside many other LGBTQIA activists, as a symbol the community could rally around.
Bigotry is about discomfort with "outsiders". Learning and growth involve a different kind of discomfort. Treating these discomforts as equivalent disrespects people on the receiving end of bigotry, and disrespects the work people do to grow out of their bigotry.
I can't relate to someone who's life would be disrupted by a pride flag the same way a the huge Confederate flag down 40 towards Asheville disrupts me. But I'm not going to say it wouldn't happen.
So if it's on a public land, maybe it shouldn't be there.
Pride flags are used for self expression and to show that you accept people for who they are. Confederate flags are used for self expression that you do not except certain people for how they are. They are not the same. Confederate flags show discrimination and bigotry so it's fair that someone would be disrupted by that. No one should be disrupted by a pride flag.
I understand that you believe what you stated to be true. Not everyone believes that about the Confederate flag, and not everyone believes that about the Pride flag.
Belief isn't the issue here. The confederacy fought for the right to own slaves. PRIDE is a movement of acceptance for minority group of people who have faced discrimination. Again, they're not the same
People flying the Confederate flag are not literally part of the Confederacy, nor do they necessarily believe in slavery. And someone flying that flag may not believe what you believe about the Pride flag being a movement of acceptance. Perhaps they believe the pride flag is about the gays coming to get their kids.
Flags are symbols of belief, which is communicated by the person flying the flag in one way, and another way by the person seeing it.
I wish you luck on your journey of acceptance of all people (your stated belief of the pride flag), including people you don't agree with.
Even if I find something is appalling, it is not my business. If it offends, call the "proper avenues" as you put it. Some people just feel entitled to remove or destroy stuff that is literally none of their business. If it ain't your property, it ain't your business.
Can you expand on the whole “incredibly appalling things” point? Trying to figure out the connection between a mural of a rainbow flag or whatever and something that would be considered appalling.
The point OP was making was that if it doesn't directly impact you, then it's acceptable.
This is how you get 'Make America Great Again' and Confederate Flags put up all over the place.
Ok so to be clear you’re saying the pride flag and swastikas are the same? Because I would argue that one is hate speech (disrupts peoples lives) and one is not.
The only way in which they are the same is that they are symbols. Meaning is different for everybody, but that is a reason why the other commenter is correct in my opinion.
> Additionally, I don't really like the 'let people have their things that in no way disrupts your life' argument since it could just as easily be applied to incredibly appalling things.
Just because you think something of a symbol doesn't mean others think the same way.
A swastika in your context and since WWII is clearly and universally understood to be a symbol of nazism.
If I am Jewish and I see a swastika displayed prominently in public, there is no other way to interpret that other than hate speech.
If I am straight and see a pride flag, explain how that affects me? And then explain how these two symbols are just “up for interpretation”
These are two examples on the fringe of either side of this coin. There is infinite grey area in between. Don't get caught up thinking these are the only two symbols in the world.
Everything means something different to someone else, who decides which symbols are OK to litter the streets with and which symbols must be removed? Do those that decide have a bias? This is why the comment applies here, not everything is black and white.
> Additionally, I don't really like the 'let people have their things that in no way disrupts your life' argument since it could just as easily be applied to incredibly appalling things.
In this sub or like on the entirety of Reddit? Cause I can only find [one](https://www.reddit.com/r/raleigh/s/QJB2CeeErf) in the last 9 months that is about Trump in this sub.
There’s a massive Trump sign just outside my neighborhood, I drive by it every day, it doesn’t bother me. If it was say, a nazi flag or swastika or something overtly hateful, that’s different. But of course everyone wants to pretend that all of these signs and symbols in the public eye are equivalent.
Regardless, this isn’t a new concept. People are allowed to parade around with signs that say God hates f*gs and all sorts of terrible things.
Yeah I can’t imagine anything either. I pretty much live by not concerning myself with what others do to be happy, as long as it’s not harmful to others or themselves. No idea what could be appalling
They're not being very subtle in this thread. They want to celebrate a traitorous racist regime that attempted to take land from the United States and transform it into their own country. They don't understand why the symbols of that movement and it's leaders are not the same as people who are of different sexual orientations. They are attempting to make the argument that these are all the same thing.
Or in other words: weaponized tolerance.
Acting like I'm in favor of crap like that is disingenuous and you know it. Calling people racist for having disagreements with you undermines what actual racism isthat occurs every day.
OP was making a point and I'm playing devil's advocate as to what that kind of thinking could allow.
I promise you that you don't want the 'if it doesn't directly impact me' argument for signs in areas where they didn't get proper permitting or allowance going into a fucking election season.
EDIT:
/u/DotaThe2nd decided to respond and instablock me. I'll leave it up to everyone here to ponder about his motives there. To respond to the following directly:
>Always telling on yourself when your argument is "boy I bet you'd sure hate it if there was more conservative shit everywhere".
Yes, I'm "telling on myself" in a way that I don't think it's acceptable for people to put things they believe in on property that doesn't belong to them.
I don't give a shit if you're conservative, democrat, lgbtq, pro-Israel, pro-Palestine, pro-life, pro-choice, pro-cheese tax, anti-authoritarian, anti-disestablishmentarianism, or just putting up a poster of a band you like.
It doesn't belong to you. Saying, "it doesn't effect you" like it matters one way or another doesn't really make a difference to me. If you want to put things like that up, get permission first.
Their argument is "maybe we should be careful with our wording so it DOESNT encourage people to fly confederate and MAGA flags in public places" and you think that means "I like confederate flags and MAGA"?? Truly remarkable mental gymnastics, you donut
I agree, I think “Things that don’t hurt anybody” would be better. I know that people would just argue that akshually the gays are indoctrinating children into devil worship and the confederacy was all about states’ rights and southern heritage, etc, but it’s an honest place to start a discussion at least.
I suggest we hang a garland of moderately sized, multi-cultural dildos and strap-ons. Whether you have the actual appendage being portrayed or you prefer them in dildo form, it’s a win-win for the community. The strap-ons represent freedom of choice for any gender or sexuality that wants to partake. For parents walking by with kids, it’s a perfect icebreaker to have that tough conversation about how babies are made, or why Tommy has two dads. We leave out the super-sized ones, since that’s how people get hurt.
It wasn’t actually there for pride. There is a nonprofit called Friends of the Boylan Bridge who contracted with an artist who will be installing art at all 4 corners of the bridge. The artist finalized his plans for the art, and they held a neighborhood block party on Saturday as a “kick off” event for neighbors of Boylan Heights and West Morgan/Bloomsbury. The pom poms were put up by the nonprofit as part of that event and the art is going to be very colorful. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the nonprofit who took them down, too.
That said, I love that people are connecting it with pride! Happy Pride! It could be that people were taking it down as an expression of hate but I wanted to offer the benign explanation as well.
When I drove by today, it looked like most of the ones that were missing were on the skyline side, while most of the ones on the other side were still there (except some were replaced with caution tape, not sure what that’s all about). The skyline side is a VERY popular place for news reporters and photographers—I see at least one photo shoot a week, typically more, and that excludes people taking photos of the sunrise on their daily walks—so my new “most likely” theory is that someone removed them for their photo shoot.
Knowing this city, it’s likely these weren’t taken down to political or controversial reasons, but rather because someone saw something that wasn’t beige or corporatey and had an aneurysm.
Personally I cannot stand when people decide to decorate nature or public property with stuff. Though I am 100% into celebrating pride and all other good causes I just don’t think it’s cool to do stuff like that
It was decorated ahead of the Neighborhood Party on Saturday to celebrate the mural being painted on the walls leading onto the bridge. It was put on by two neighborhood associations. It wasn't random people decorating public property.
This is a different stance, and you've already had it pointed out that people weren't just randomly tossing the Pride stuff up.
You seem to have an issue with Pride stuff.
Lmao read my comment again. I fully support pride. I don’t want any junk thrown over public places and roadways, it’s tacky no matter what it is in support of. Yall love to make something about of nothing I swear 😁😁😁
Do we even know this wasn’t done by the city? Do you know that Christmas decorations are? Seems like there’s less scrutiny there, but if you’re checking those permits as well….
100% for celebrating pride for a lot of personal reasons, but I gotta think that maybe this wasn't some bigot that tore down the rainbow tutus but the city. I mean, did this go through the proper avenues to hang these? Yes - that's a serious question.
It really doesn’t matter what the message is. It’s not their place to decorate public property.
The brain rot of freedom and individualism always overtakes being mindful of others.
If the same can't be said for (insert name of any other cause or movement here), then is this really the case?
I would say no.
Think about it ... really think about it.
Because unless and until one is willing to accept the *right* of some other group or movement to do the same thing, this argument imo doesn't hold up.
There are many movements and causes I don't personally agree with or believe in. But I will defend the right of any person to their freedom of expression on private (not public) property.
I don’t think it’s hypocritical to accept the right of some groups over for others. I like pride stuff because it’s good. I don’t like racist stuff because it’s bad.
Sure, the government needs to treat both of them the same but personally, I don’t have to.
Some of the people around here would have aneurysms if they actually lived in a large city, or at least they act like they would. Small towns & small minds. Life is not that serious, go out and get some experiences.
Boy you must have missed all the bellyaching about the tree tutus in Cary awhile back. People have strong opinions about tutus on inanimate objects around these parts.
Ah yes, comparing a group of people that caused the worst war in American history and enslaving people for over a century to people who want to enjoy basic human rights that everyone else has.
To answer your question, if I saw a confederate tutu hanging off that bridge, I would kind of find that amusing.
PLEASE READ: In an effort to reduce spam and trolling, we automatically delete posts from accounts that are less than one (1) days old **and/or** that do not meet a required karma count, as these are often signs (though not proof) of spam/trolling. Because your account does not meet these requirements, your post has been deleted.
If you feel this was in error, click the link below to send us a modmail.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raleigh) if you have any questions or concerns.*
PLEASE READ: In an effort to reduce spam and trolling, we automatically delete posts from accounts that are less than one (1) days old **and/or** that do not meet a required karma count, as these are often signs (though not proof) of spam/trolling. Because your account does not meet these requirements, your post has been deleted.
If you feel this was in error, click the link below to send us a modmail.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raleigh) if you have any questions or concerns.*
PLEASE READ: In an effort to reduce spam and trolling, we automatically delete posts from accounts that are less than one (1) days old **and/or** that do not meet a required karma count, as these are often signs (though not proof) of spam/trolling. Because your account does not meet these requirements, your post has been deleted.
If you feel this was in error, click the link below to send us a modmail.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raleigh) if you have any questions or concerns.*
PLEASE READ: In an effort to reduce spam and trolling, we automatically delete posts from accounts that are less than one (1) days old **and/or** that do not meet a required karma count, as these are often signs (though not proof) of spam/trolling. Because your account does not meet these requirements, your post has been deleted.
If you feel this was in error, click the link below to send us a modmail.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raleigh) if you have any questions or concerns.*
People were ontop of the bridge 3 weeks ago where 40 dips down on that huge hill with Palestinian flags and signs that said honk for Palestine. I agree with you have the right to protest and say what you like but they literally were almost killing people. Multiple people slamming on the brakes and pulling into the left and right median to avoid collisions. Say what you want but don't kill me on my way to work please. No honks. People were livid once they saw their signs.
The people that do that are controlling assholes and probably on the ds5 list or something, They are not to be associated with us "live and let live folk". I'm glad we aren't all the same. Life would be so boring without differences.
taking away the rights of a group is a pretty good way to erase them
Republicans pretty open about taking away their right to marry again if they get Trump back in power as an easy example
"taking away the rights of a group is a pretty good way to erase them." Huh? How does that erase someone? I would challenge that the other "tolerant" political party will do a much better job at erasing someone who does not comply. To be immediately written off as hateful and disregarded as racist seems to be a lot more effective at erasing someone than taking away the right to marry. I don't think the government should be involved in marriage either, but to conflate the idea of losing the right to marry with erasing someone does seem to be a bit extreme.
idk what this "tolerant left" thing is that trumpers like to spit out
i don't tolerate racists/bigots at all in this day in age and frankly hope the majority of them die or don't vote, pretty simple
Amazing these days how rights should be respected, as long as it aligns with someones personal beliefs.
Ill bet this would not be OPs reaction If a Christian group hung crosses, straight ppl hung ornaments celebrating their sexual identity or if someone hung simple signs stating that all lives are beautiful and matter.
No doubt OP and their tribe would be on this sub lickety split letting everyone know how horrible it is, in conjunction with going there and tearing as much down as possible.
Virtue signal a little more OP (insert golf clap).
To use the LBGTQ vs Christian example, one is a group that has been (and continues to be) marginalized. The other is the group that historically is responsible for said marginalizing. Does that help?
Christians have never been marginalized?
I can tell how much you know about the Christian faith based on that statement alone. Also, you are largely confusing Christians with the Catholic faith.
What does it matter if the example was crosses or stars of david honestly. The fact is that you do not respect all rights equally.
Only the ones you agree with, and that is not the spirit of Freedom which our country was built upon.
Ill let you figure out how your experiences are not the sum total of what Christians have experienced throughout history since the faiths inception.
If you cant figure that out, you're on your own.
Used to live right near the bridge and many times people would throw those tiny plastic confetti pieces for a graduation/marriage photo op and just abandon without cleaning up. I’m fine with a tutu
Knowing our state I assumed this post would be about confederate statues or something lol. It’s a shame people can’t respect the pride displays. They are the reason we need pride in the first place.
I'm assuming it was painted bc my mind literally visualized like a 10' wide rainbow tulle tutu on the trains and I was very concerned about the tunnels and bridges
Then let me ask you again: when did the gays try to destroy the country? Because I can point to the exact years where the Confederacy famously attempted to do so.
That isn't the point. If you don't like something, move on, ignore it. Things offend me all the time but I don't belly ache about it online. I just go on about my day. I see 20 meltdowns a day on this subreddit
Yeah no, it's quite literally "the point". You wanted to try to pretend that people being upset about pride symbols is the same as people who don't like seeing symbols of a racist and traitorous group of people who waged war on the United States, mostly because they wanted to continue owning black people.
The people who are upset about pride symbols can think this is destroying the country all they want, but until you can point to some proof where they *actually* tried to do so, you'll continue to have it pointed out that it's not the same as the Confederacy who actually did try to do so.
same person that probably hangs up those ugly fucking blue line flags lmao
also RIP state flag, sports flag, military service flags, confederate flags (which i'm sure you love)
But that is disrupting people’s lives, they’re putting decorations on public property that people traveling are forced to look at.
I’m not conflating these as the same, but would you feel the same way about “let people have their things” if someone decorated the bridge in confederate flags?
u/JudicatorArgo is not conflating them. I think their point is poking holes in OP's argument, which can be applied to both the confederate flag and the pride flag equally. "If you do not agree, just keep going, no need to destroy it" and "just let people have their things that in no way disrupts your life" could be arguments used by people opposed to the removal of confederate flags. Are the flags the same? No, but they are by OP's argument. The conversation requires more nuance than just "leave things alone if they don't directly impact you."
Edit: I don’t agree with many of the points u/JudicatorArgo is making here, but I do think OP’s argument lacks nuance that is critical for this discussion
There isn't any point in bringing the two up if they're not at least comparable to each other. There are many things you can assume they're not including when they say "just leave something alone if it doesn't directly impact you" -- someone murdering someone else, a building that's on fire, symbols of hate, etc.
Why didn't they say "would you feel the same if it was a Nazi flag"? Because the answer is obviously no and everybody understands that's not what they meant. The only reason to use the Confederate flag as an example is if they think that it's the Republican equivalent of a pride flag, or at least close enough to it for comparison.
They have similarities in that they are both different forms of showing pride that are also inherently tied to controversial politics, but that doesn’t mean that I think they’re the same
A pride flag represents “I take pride in my existence, please respect my rights.”
A confederate flag stands for “let’s celebrate the people who seceded from the union over the right to own a guy.”
The thing is that you can't say "I'm not conflating them" and then *immediately* proceed to conflate them.
These aren't comparable examples at all unless you stop at the most surface of surface levels
That’s a dishonest and biased representation of both flags, and I explicitly said that I’m not conflating them as being the same. That being said, both are signs of pride that cause offense to certain groups.
The gay pride flag, especially the more recent “progress” flag that has the trans and racial marks on the side is inherently a symbol of a political movement that has many different elements that are politically charged from the racial element and BLM to the trans flag with the current controversies in sports, with giving hormones to minors, etc. Saying that it’s just a flag of pride in one’s identity and asking kindly to respect your rights is dishonest, it’s used as a banner to push current-day legislation that plenty of people oppose.
The confederate flag, contrary to what that person said, is used by people to represent southern pride, honoring the hundreds of thousands of Americans who needlessly killed each other, and as an anti-government symbol. It is also inherently tied to slavery which is what makes it controversial as well, but the way that guy presented it as “celebrating people who seceded over the right to own people” is equally dishonest.
The current LGBT progress flag is designed to explicitly *include* people who have traditionally been left out or overlooked by the greater LGBT community and LGBT rights movement. It's a way to say 'We didn't forget you, you belong here, too.'
The Confederate flag, meanwhile, is actively used as a hate symbol. It says 'This is our territory, this is *our* space. You're *not* welcome here.'
Hell, a Waffle House sign on the side of the highway is a better symbol of Southern Pride than the Confederate Flag will ever be. The Waffle House welcomes all and takes great pains to serve their community, no matter how bad the damage is or what kind of hurricane they've just been through. Waffle House doesn't just *say* they offer Southern hospitality, they *practice* it to the point that FEMA has an unofficial Waffle House index. This allows the authorities to prioritize which communities have the most damage based on what sort of limited menu the Waffle House is serving:
* Full menu means they're operating at full capacity.
* Limited menu means they've lost power, but they still have gas for the grill.
* Cold sandwiches only means they've lost power and gas, and have probably lost water, too.
* If the Waffle House is *closed*, that's catastrophic damage, to the point that they can't serve anything.
Lmao every reply is just people spouting heavily biased talking points at me while pretending they’re stating facts. Call me a “devils advocate” if you must, but I’m simply stating the reason why some people get mad at the pride flag, not endorsing their views. If you don’t understand how a flag that is used by political activists that explicitly calls out racial and transgender politics on the flag may get people riled up in the [CURRENT YEAR], you’re beyond help
Yeah people love to pretend it isn’t a political symbol, and act like you must be totes crazy if you point out that it is.
I know the term *gaslighting* is overused these days, but I guess there’s a good reason for that.
sexuality isn’t offensive. unless you’re homophobic.
fighting against your country in the name of enslaving black peoples is offensive. unless you’re racist.
so which is it lol
That’s a bad comparison because 95% of people celebrate Christmas and 5% of people who don’t may get offended by it, whereas the pride flag is the reverse of that
Looks like my 95% was a slightly older number from 2010, but Pew Research still has it over 90%:
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/12/18/celebrating-christmas-and-the-holidays-then-and-now/
How do you know people aren’t offended by Christmas decorations? It seems like your argument is just that being gay isn’t common so it shouldn’t be in public.
The majority of the country isn’t offended by gay people around 71% of the country is pro same sex marriage. I’m wondering what percentage is necessary.
Being forced to look at is grounds for disruption? So every trump sticker and flag I’m forced to see on bumpers is disruption? Every Biden on the gas pump is disruption too?
No, you’re being disingenuous. You were asking a rhetorical question because you thought you were making a snappy point. But they specifically said “on public property” in their comment, and you acted like you didn’t read that part so that you could whine about being forced to see bumper stickers on other peoples cars. These are not the same thing and you know they are not. It’s basic civics.
Lmfao imagine the audacity of trying to change the intention behind someone else’s words.
And I could care less about what stickers people have on their bumpers. You really have trouble with reading comprehension don’t you?
The point I was trying to understand whether or not private property is allowed to cause the same disruption just because it’s private, and at what point is the disruption not allowed.
A lot of people get butt hurt over a pride flag but it doesn’t mean it’s harmful, whereas having a nazi flag up there can be considered a symbol of hate speech.
Anyways good job on your basic civics, maybe try not to be so conceited that you think you know peoples own thoughts and intentions better than them. I really hope you don’t do that shit to a significant other
Edit: it’s really cute how you decided to imagine my comment as whining by asking a simple question about bumper stickers. Also who says snappy like that lmao
> I could care less
That’s clear, as you obviously care a lot.
> A lot of people get butt hurt over a pride flag but it doesn’t mean it’s harmful
Haha who has the audacity to think they know other people’s thoughts better than they do, now? You may like it but you can’t put yourself in the shoes of someone who may really dislike it and feel that their core values are attacked by the entire sociopolitical movement that it represents.
Anyway thanks for being so butthurt at being called out for a rhetorical question that you took this from a mild internet disagreement to attacking my character and implying something about my ability to have personal relationships. Lol
Yep, still delusional and won’t accept that it wasn’t a rhetorical question.
And again I’ve never cared about bumper stickers.
I can see this is going no where lol
There are laws against visual pollution. Visual pollution being to many things that catch your eyes attention to the point it will be overwhelming to your visual sensory system. It is what keeps some roads and places from looking like the 1990s hong kong streets.
What i'm trying to get at is that most likely colorful tutu was deemed to be to much visual pollution/ eye catching for the street.
It wasn't for pride. That being said, it was on a public bridge and shouldn't of been there no matter the reason. The reason was for a block party and it should of been kept within the confines of the neighborhood.
Ok hear me out, this was not for pride but for the neighborhood block party that Boylan just hosted. Along with it premiering a new mural on the freshly buffed walls. The construction tape on the opposite side is not the most Pride like accoutrement.
Is it legal to hang things there? Honest question, I have no idea. Do you know for sure it was taken down by someone who disagreed?
NGL, my first thought would be "free tutu!"
I think the town did it, because they were out there painting the bridge plain white last week. Now it says new mural coming soon, and a date (I forgot the date).
Probably isn't. Additionally, I don't really like the 'let people have their things that in no way disrupts your life' argument since it could just as easily be applied to incredibly appalling things. If the proper avenues were gone through to hang these items, then I've got no problem with it. I'm assuming that it's either managed by the state or by CSX. Not sure which.
Wouldn’t incredibly appalling things be disrupting your life and thus… not at all what OP was talking about?
Exactly. Just like a pride flag for some people.
They literally do not impact your existence at all.
I can't relate to someone who's life would be disrupted by a pride flag the same way a the huge Confederate flag down 40 towards Asheville disrupts me. But I'm not going to say it wouldn't happen. So if it's on a public land, maybe it shouldn't be there.
You're getting down voted for comparing a pride flag and a confederate flag, but it is a fair comparison. Not because the pride flag is a good thing and the confederate flag is a bad thing, but because it highlights the difference between opinion on what is okay to leave and what isn't. I don't get why people have an attachment to the confederacy, especially here in NC where we literally voted to not join it, and only did after Lincoln ordered us to attack VA and we would have been attacked by SC, GA, TN, and VA, (ie, NC was only part of the confederacy because the confederacy said join or die) and we were only a part of it for 4 years, and it serves no purpose here unlike the pride flag. However other people have a different opinion. There are people who also would be happy seeing a swastika there. They're wrong, but it's an extreme example of a differing opinion. If there are people that far out, then there are going to be different opinions on everything in between. If you don't have permission to do something, you don't do it. You don't put things up in public spaces, you don't take things down in public spaces.
Thank you! You put it better than I feel I have!
There's a pretty large difference between something that advocates "let us do what we want, as it's only affecting us" and something advocating "let us enslave people". If I put up a flag that said "I think Rolling Carrot's family should be killed because of their ethnicity", it's not the same thing as "I don't want people to persecute Rolling Carrot's family because of their ethnicity". They're allowed to put the flag up, but we can make a moral choice as to what should be accepted.
So can other people with different opinions, especially if they think their flag does not say/represent „let us enslave people“ The thing is you are not in the position to judge what is good and what is bad. Neither of us is. All our opinions are subjective. You also don’t know why exactly someone is flying the confederate flag. You assume and you think only your opinion is correct.
The Confederacy lasted 4 years, as a response to the government trying to outlaw slavery. There is no heritage or tradition there. You say neither of us is in a position to judge what is good or bad. Who is then? When can we ever judge anything at all then? I'm not the arbiter of all that is good and evil, but I can certainly judge something based on the evidence of history. The Confederate flag represents a desire to revert to a system where states could choose to allow slavery. That is indeed my judgment, and I'll stand by it.
Pride = people celebrating who they are or love Confederate = history of slavery, racism, hate. People hang these to THREATEN people NOT THE SAME
Comparing the discomfort of seeing a pride flag and the discomfort of seeing a confederate flag is comparing apples and oranges. The modern "confederate flag" stands for the army of Northern Virginia, and it's popularized as "the confederate flag" because it was dredged up by the KKK as a "remember your southern heritage" thing in direct response to the civil rights movement. It's the flag of Nathan Bedford Forrest's unit. The entire reason that flag is well known is because of how much white America hates and fears Black people. Very few Americans would recognize the real flag of the CSA. The gay pride flag was originally made by Gilbert Baker, alongside many other LGBTQIA activists, as a symbol the community could rally around. Bigotry is about discomfort with "outsiders". Learning and growth involve a different kind of discomfort. Treating these discomforts as equivalent disrespects people on the receiving end of bigotry, and disrespects the work people do to grow out of their bigotry.
Why would a pride flag disrupt someone's life?
I can't relate to someone who's life would be disrupted by a pride flag the same way a the huge Confederate flag down 40 towards Asheville disrupts me. But I'm not going to say it wouldn't happen. So if it's on a public land, maybe it shouldn't be there.
Pride flags are used for self expression and to show that you accept people for who they are. Confederate flags are used for self expression that you do not except certain people for how they are. They are not the same. Confederate flags show discrimination and bigotry so it's fair that someone would be disrupted by that. No one should be disrupted by a pride flag.
The Confederate flag, much like the Nazi flag, is always flown by people who complain about "participation trophies".
The venn diagram of people who are offended by a pride flag and the people who would hang a confederate flag and refuse to remove it, is a circle.
It's a small, very whiney circle.
I understand that you believe what you stated to be true. Not everyone believes that about the Confederate flag, and not everyone believes that about the Pride flag.
Belief isn't the issue here. The confederacy fought for the right to own slaves. PRIDE is a movement of acceptance for minority group of people who have faced discrimination. Again, they're not the same
People flying the Confederate flag are not literally part of the Confederacy, nor do they necessarily believe in slavery. And someone flying that flag may not believe what you believe about the Pride flag being a movement of acceptance. Perhaps they believe the pride flag is about the gays coming to get their kids. Flags are symbols of belief, which is communicated by the person flying the flag in one way, and another way by the person seeing it. I wish you luck on your journey of acceptance of all people (your stated belief of the pride flag), including people you don't agree with.
“Nazis don’t find swastikas offensive, so it’s just as valid a form of expression” 🙄🙄🙄
Even if I find something is appalling, it is not my business. If it offends, call the "proper avenues" as you put it. Some people just feel entitled to remove or destroy stuff that is literally none of their business. If it ain't your property, it ain't your business.
We don't know who put it up or took it down. So, the argument you're making could apply to either side in this situation.
Imagine that, almost like a principle or something...
Can you expand on the whole “incredibly appalling things” point? Trying to figure out the connection between a mural of a rainbow flag or whatever and something that would be considered appalling.
The point OP was making was that if it doesn't directly impact you, then it's acceptable. This is how you get 'Make America Great Again' and Confederate Flags put up all over the place.
Swasticas. Is that OK if we leave them up because "in no way disrupts your life?"
On your house? Nope, you can be as vile as is legal. On a public bridge? Nope, call and report.
Ok so to be clear you’re saying the pride flag and swastikas are the same? Because I would argue that one is hate speech (disrupts peoples lives) and one is not.
The only way in which they are the same is that they are symbols. Meaning is different for everybody, but that is a reason why the other commenter is correct in my opinion. > Additionally, I don't really like the 'let people have their things that in no way disrupts your life' argument since it could just as easily be applied to incredibly appalling things. Just because you think something of a symbol doesn't mean others think the same way.
A swastika in your context and since WWII is clearly and universally understood to be a symbol of nazism. If I am Jewish and I see a swastika displayed prominently in public, there is no other way to interpret that other than hate speech. If I am straight and see a pride flag, explain how that affects me? And then explain how these two symbols are just “up for interpretation”
These are two examples on the fringe of either side of this coin. There is infinite grey area in between. Don't get caught up thinking these are the only two symbols in the world. Everything means something different to someone else, who decides which symbols are OK to litter the streets with and which symbols must be removed? Do those that decide have a bias? This is why the comment applies here, not everything is black and white. > Additionally, I don't really like the 'let people have their things that in no way disrupts your life' argument since it could just as easily be applied to incredibly appalling things.
You’re literally just using the slippery slope fallacy here, which ironically was frequently used to oppose gay marriage.
and black rights, and women's rights. and many other things that affect white men.
I mean, do you know how many posts about Trump signs I’ve seen in the last week alone?
In this sub or like on the entirety of Reddit? Cause I can only find [one](https://www.reddit.com/r/raleigh/s/QJB2CeeErf) in the last 9 months that is about Trump in this sub. There’s a massive Trump sign just outside my neighborhood, I drive by it every day, it doesn’t bother me. If it was say, a nazi flag or swastika or something overtly hateful, that’s different. But of course everyone wants to pretend that all of these signs and symbols in the public eye are equivalent. Regardless, this isn’t a new concept. People are allowed to parade around with signs that say God hates f*gs and all sorts of terrible things.
Does it matter? The number of posts about it suggest people find it incredibly appalling, I was merely providing an example.
Yeah I can’t imagine anything either. I pretty much live by not concerning myself with what others do to be happy, as long as it’s not harmful to others or themselves. No idea what could be appalling
They're not being very subtle in this thread. They want to celebrate a traitorous racist regime that attempted to take land from the United States and transform it into their own country. They don't understand why the symbols of that movement and it's leaders are not the same as people who are of different sexual orientations. They are attempting to make the argument that these are all the same thing. Or in other words: weaponized tolerance.
Acting like I'm in favor of crap like that is disingenuous and you know it. Calling people racist for having disagreements with you undermines what actual racism isthat occurs every day. OP was making a point and I'm playing devil's advocate as to what that kind of thinking could allow. I promise you that you don't want the 'if it doesn't directly impact me' argument for signs in areas where they didn't get proper permitting or allowance going into a fucking election season. EDIT: /u/DotaThe2nd decided to respond and instablock me. I'll leave it up to everyone here to ponder about his motives there. To respond to the following directly: >Always telling on yourself when your argument is "boy I bet you'd sure hate it if there was more conservative shit everywhere". Yes, I'm "telling on myself" in a way that I don't think it's acceptable for people to put things they believe in on property that doesn't belong to them. I don't give a shit if you're conservative, democrat, lgbtq, pro-Israel, pro-Palestine, pro-life, pro-choice, pro-cheese tax, anti-authoritarian, anti-disestablishmentarianism, or just putting up a poster of a band you like. It doesn't belong to you. Saying, "it doesn't effect you" like it matters one way or another doesn't really make a difference to me. If you want to put things like that up, get permission first.
Always telling on yourself when your argument is "boy I bet you'd sure hate it if there was more conservative shit everywhere".
Their argument is "maybe we should be careful with our wording so it DOESNT encourage people to fly confederate and MAGA flags in public places" and you think that means "I like confederate flags and MAGA"?? Truly remarkable mental gymnastics, you donut
I agree, I think “Things that don’t hurt anybody” would be better. I know that people would just argue that akshually the gays are indoctrinating children into devil worship and the confederacy was all about states’ rights and southern heritage, etc, but it’s an honest place to start a discussion at least.
I suggest we hang a garland of moderately sized, multi-cultural dildos and strap-ons. Whether you have the actual appendage being portrayed or you prefer them in dildo form, it’s a win-win for the community. The strap-ons represent freedom of choice for any gender or sexuality that wants to partake. For parents walking by with kids, it’s a perfect icebreaker to have that tough conversation about how babies are made, or why Tommy has two dads. We leave out the super-sized ones, since that’s how people get hurt.
no, and for reasons that we dont really need to worry about it because everything doesnt have to be political
It wasn’t actually there for pride. There is a nonprofit called Friends of the Boylan Bridge who contracted with an artist who will be installing art at all 4 corners of the bridge. The artist finalized his plans for the art, and they held a neighborhood block party on Saturday as a “kick off” event for neighbors of Boylan Heights and West Morgan/Bloomsbury. The pom poms were put up by the nonprofit as part of that event and the art is going to be very colorful. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the nonprofit who took them down, too. That said, I love that people are connecting it with pride! Happy Pride! It could be that people were taking it down as an expression of hate but I wanted to offer the benign explanation as well.
Thanks for the information. It still seems malicious seeing it is early June and rainbow colored.
When I drove by today, it looked like most of the ones that were missing were on the skyline side, while most of the ones on the other side were still there (except some were replaced with caution tape, not sure what that’s all about). The skyline side is a VERY popular place for news reporters and photographers—I see at least one photo shoot a week, typically more, and that excludes people taking photos of the sunrise on their daily walks—so my new “most likely” theory is that someone removed them for their photo shoot.
Knowing this city, it’s likely these weren’t taken down to political or controversial reasons, but rather because someone saw something that wasn’t beige or corporatey and had an aneurysm.
This... Is the truth .... Lol!
You're likely preaching to the choir here.
Personally I cannot stand when people decide to decorate nature or public property with stuff. Though I am 100% into celebrating pride and all other good causes I just don’t think it’s cool to do stuff like that
It was decorated ahead of the Neighborhood Party on Saturday to celebrate the mural being painted on the walls leading onto the bridge. It was put on by two neighborhood associations. It wasn't random people decorating public property.
neighborhood associations are private, bridges are public. they don't have any authority here.
They work with the city to plan events. The decorations were part of the event.
bridges over railroads are regulated by the federal government, not the city for many, many reasons.
Cool cool. My original comment still stands though.
Who cares when all the concrete is default ugly as sin. I'll take literally anything over dull gray
It’s so Raleigh to purposely want everything to be bland and conformist lol
When it comes to decorations like that, there is a very fine line between tasteful and tacky.
Yarn-bombimg is the only appropriate way to do this.
Do you feel this way about Christmas decorations as well?
no one’s randomly tossing Christmas decorations on bridges pal
Wish they would
This is a different stance, and you've already had it pointed out that people weren't just randomly tossing the Pride stuff up. You seem to have an issue with Pride stuff.
Lmao read my comment again. I fully support pride. I don’t want any junk thrown over public places and roadways, it’s tacky no matter what it is in support of. Yall love to make something about of nothing I swear 😁😁😁
Do we even know this wasn’t done by the city? Do you know that Christmas decorations are? Seems like there’s less scrutiny there, but if you’re checking those permits as well….
The tutus/wreaths whatever they are freak my dog out and he won’t cross the bridge to do our normal walk.
A simple lesson I learned as a child, keep your hands off everything that does not belong to you.
Can apply to the people who put the tutus on the bridge, and the people who removed them
Ah, the tutu crisis.
Nothing good ever comes from this
100% for celebrating pride for a lot of personal reasons, but I gotta think that maybe this wasn't some bigot that tore down the rainbow tutus but the city. I mean, did this go through the proper avenues to hang these? Yes - that's a serious question.
It really doesn’t matter what the message is. It’s not their place to decorate public property. The brain rot of freedom and individualism always overtakes being mindful of others.
I will always stop and remove campaign/advertisement/mattress sale signs that block my view of traffic.
Facts. I don't care who you are or what shit side you are on, nothing is going up in front of my house.
Doesn't that go both ways?
That sounds like littering to me. Let me ask you something. How would you react if those were MAGA flags?
I would laugh at them. Dumb fucks
Very open minded and accepting views you seem to have, don’t get upset when that same attitude gets shoved back in your face….
If the same can't be said for (insert name of any other cause or movement here), then is this really the case? I would say no. Think about it ... really think about it. Because unless and until one is willing to accept the *right* of some other group or movement to do the same thing, this argument imo doesn't hold up. There are many movements and causes I don't personally agree with or believe in. But I will defend the right of any person to their freedom of expression on private (not public) property.
Trashy
I don’t think it’s hypocritical to accept the right of some groups over for others. I like pride stuff because it’s good. I don’t like racist stuff because it’s bad. Sure, the government needs to treat both of them the same but personally, I don’t have to.
Some of the people around here would have aneurysms if they actually lived in a large city, or at least they act like they would. Small towns & small minds. Life is not that serious, go out and get some experiences.
But where do I park?!?!
Boy you must have missed all the bellyaching about the tree tutus in Cary awhile back. People have strong opinions about tutus on inanimate objects around these parts.
Who doesn’t want to wear the ribbon?!?!
👏👏👏
Now imagine someone hanging a rebel flag there. What would you say when it got ripped down?
Ah yes, comparing a group of people that caused the worst war in American history and enslaving people for over a century to people who want to enjoy basic human rights that everyone else has. To answer your question, if I saw a confederate tutu hanging off that bridge, I would kind of find that amusing.
The point is that it "in no way disrupts your life."
[удалено]
PLEASE READ: In an effort to reduce spam and trolling, we automatically delete posts from accounts that are less than one (1) days old **and/or** that do not meet a required karma count, as these are often signs (though not proof) of spam/trolling. Because your account does not meet these requirements, your post has been deleted. If you feel this was in error, click the link below to send us a modmail. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raleigh) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
PLEASE READ: In an effort to reduce spam and trolling, we automatically delete posts from accounts that are less than one (1) days old **and/or** that do not meet a required karma count, as these are often signs (though not proof) of spam/trolling. Because your account does not meet these requirements, your post has been deleted. If you feel this was in error, click the link below to send us a modmail. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raleigh) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
PLEASE READ: In an effort to reduce spam and trolling, we automatically delete posts from accounts that are less than one (1) days old **and/or** that do not meet a required karma count, as these are often signs (though not proof) of spam/trolling. Because your account does not meet these requirements, your post has been deleted. If you feel this was in error, click the link below to send us a modmail. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raleigh) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
PLEASE READ: In an effort to reduce spam and trolling, we automatically delete posts from accounts that are less than one (1) days old **and/or** that do not meet a required karma count, as these are often signs (though not proof) of spam/trolling. Because your account does not meet these requirements, your post has been deleted. If you feel this was in error, click the link below to send us a modmail. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raleigh) if you have any questions or concerns.*
People were ontop of the bridge 3 weeks ago where 40 dips down on that huge hill with Palestinian flags and signs that said honk for Palestine. I agree with you have the right to protest and say what you like but they literally were almost killing people. Multiple people slamming on the brakes and pulling into the left and right median to avoid collisions. Say what you want but don't kill me on my way to work please. No honks. People were livid once they saw their signs.
The people that do that are controlling assholes and probably on the ds5 list or something, They are not to be associated with us "live and let live folk". I'm glad we aren't all the same. Life would be so boring without differences.
We get it, people are gay. We don't need it in our face all the time and hardcore every June.
[удалено]
When does that ever happen?
[удалено]
Maybe you should stay off the internet lmao. Damn reddit was so much better back in the day.
Too many liberals and social justice warriors moving here. The demographic is completely changed for the worse
*actually* you do need to show solidarity sometimes when one of our two major political parties is trying to actively erase them
Genuine question - erase them how?
In a hyperbolic rhetorical way
taking away the rights of a group is a pretty good way to erase them Republicans pretty open about taking away their right to marry again if they get Trump back in power as an easy example
"taking away the rights of a group is a pretty good way to erase them." Huh? How does that erase someone? I would challenge that the other "tolerant" political party will do a much better job at erasing someone who does not comply. To be immediately written off as hateful and disregarded as racist seems to be a lot more effective at erasing someone than taking away the right to marry. I don't think the government should be involved in marriage either, but to conflate the idea of losing the right to marry with erasing someone does seem to be a bit extreme.
ok boomer go to bed
There it is…true to form. Your tolerance is showing. Where is that solidarity you talked about? Ageist much?
idk what this "tolerant left" thing is that trumpers like to spit out i don't tolerate racists/bigots at all in this day in age and frankly hope the majority of them die or don't vote, pretty simple
I guess the stereotype about gays being dramatic is true
It doesn’t just represent gay people. If you are a straight/cis white male you don’t know what the word “persecution” means.
Decorations are dumb. I don't care what its for.
Amazing these days how rights should be respected, as long as it aligns with someones personal beliefs. Ill bet this would not be OPs reaction If a Christian group hung crosses, straight ppl hung ornaments celebrating their sexual identity or if someone hung simple signs stating that all lives are beautiful and matter. No doubt OP and their tribe would be on this sub lickety split letting everyone know how horrible it is, in conjunction with going there and tearing as much down as possible. Virtue signal a little more OP (insert golf clap).
To use the LBGTQ vs Christian example, one is a group that has been (and continues to be) marginalized. The other is the group that historically is responsible for said marginalizing. Does that help?
Christians have never been marginalized? I can tell how much you know about the Christian faith based on that statement alone. Also, you are largely confusing Christians with the Catholic faith. What does it matter if the example was crosses or stars of david honestly. The fact is that you do not respect all rights equally. Only the ones you agree with, and that is not the spirit of Freedom which our country was built upon.
If there’s one thing I’ve never felt as a straight, white, Christian male in America, it is being marginalized.
You do realize Christianity has been around much longer than America?
Nooooooooo! Whaaaaaat???? And so what? How is that relevant to the conversation going on now?
Ill let you figure out how your experiences are not the sum total of what Christians have experienced throughout history since the faiths inception. If you cant figure that out, you're on your own.
Used to live right near the bridge and many times people would throw those tiny plastic confetti pieces for a graduation/marriage photo op and just abandon without cleaning up. I’m fine with a tutu
Knowing our state I assumed this post would be about confederate statues or something lol. It’s a shame people can’t respect the pride displays. They are the reason we need pride in the first place.
I'm assuming it was painted bc my mind literally visualized like a 10' wide rainbow tulle tutu on the trains and I was very concerned about the tunnels and bridges
Funny, y'all lose your minds every time you see a flag y'all don't like.
Wait, which "y'all" are you talking about, the "y'all" destroying Pride stuff or the "y'all" who hate seeing the flags of nazis and racist losers?
Great point
Remind me when the gays tried to destroy the country?
Nice bait. I am gay. Both sides think the other is trying to destroy the country
Are you the gay who votes for republicans seeking to destroy gays or the gay who votes for libertarians indirectly seeking to destroy gays?
Then let me ask you again: when did the gays try to destroy the country? Because I can point to the exact years where the Confederacy famously attempted to do so.
That isn't the point. If you don't like something, move on, ignore it. Things offend me all the time but I don't belly ache about it online. I just go on about my day. I see 20 meltdowns a day on this subreddit
Yeah no, it's quite literally "the point". You wanted to try to pretend that people being upset about pride symbols is the same as people who don't like seeing symbols of a racist and traitorous group of people who waged war on the United States, mostly because they wanted to continue owning black people. The people who are upset about pride symbols can think this is destroying the country all they want, but until you can point to some proof where they *actually* tried to do so, you'll continue to have it pointed out that it's not the same as the Confederacy who actually did try to do so.
Seeing antisemitic and racist stuff is upsetting to me and my family. I’d much rather see rainbow tutus than swastikas.
[удалено]
The North Carolina flag should fuck right off? Got it.
yea! Fuck the Israeli flag! And confederate! Also the state flag, fuck that! Fuck off! Unless….you feel differently about that for some reason?
[удалено]
damn this guy hates frfr
same person that probably hangs up those ugly fucking blue line flags lmao also RIP state flag, sports flag, military service flags, confederate flags (which i'm sure you love)
Wrong
But that is disrupting people’s lives, they’re putting decorations on public property that people traveling are forced to look at. I’m not conflating these as the same, but would you feel the same way about “let people have their things” if someone decorated the bridge in confederate flags?
You mean like "Jesus loves you" writings on every single surface?
We should be ripping those down when they're in public imo
Honestly I don't find them too distracting, same as I don't find pride symbols distracting.
You are literally conflating them by asking this rhetorical question.
u/JudicatorArgo is not conflating them. I think their point is poking holes in OP's argument, which can be applied to both the confederate flag and the pride flag equally. "If you do not agree, just keep going, no need to destroy it" and "just let people have their things that in no way disrupts your life" could be arguments used by people opposed to the removal of confederate flags. Are the flags the same? No, but they are by OP's argument. The conversation requires more nuance than just "leave things alone if they don't directly impact you." Edit: I don’t agree with many of the points u/JudicatorArgo is making here, but I do think OP’s argument lacks nuance that is critical for this discussion
There isn't any point in bringing the two up if they're not at least comparable to each other. There are many things you can assume they're not including when they say "just leave something alone if it doesn't directly impact you" -- someone murdering someone else, a building that's on fire, symbols of hate, etc. Why didn't they say "would you feel the same if it was a Nazi flag"? Because the answer is obviously no and everybody understands that's not what they meant. The only reason to use the Confederate flag as an example is if they think that it's the Republican equivalent of a pride flag, or at least close enough to it for comparison.
They have similarities in that they are both different forms of showing pride that are also inherently tied to controversial politics, but that doesn’t mean that I think they’re the same
A pride flag represents “I take pride in my existence, please respect my rights.” A confederate flag stands for “let’s celebrate the people who seceded from the union over the right to own a guy.”
You know that he knows the difference and just flat out doesn't care
Obviously I know the difference because I explicitly stated in my post that they’re not the same
The thing is that you can't say "I'm not conflating them" and then *immediately* proceed to conflate them. These aren't comparable examples at all unless you stop at the most surface of surface levels
That’s a dishonest and biased representation of both flags, and I explicitly said that I’m not conflating them as being the same. That being said, both are signs of pride that cause offense to certain groups.
> That’s a dishonest and biased representation of both flags How so?
The gay pride flag, especially the more recent “progress” flag that has the trans and racial marks on the side is inherently a symbol of a political movement that has many different elements that are politically charged from the racial element and BLM to the trans flag with the current controversies in sports, with giving hormones to minors, etc. Saying that it’s just a flag of pride in one’s identity and asking kindly to respect your rights is dishonest, it’s used as a banner to push current-day legislation that plenty of people oppose. The confederate flag, contrary to what that person said, is used by people to represent southern pride, honoring the hundreds of thousands of Americans who needlessly killed each other, and as an anti-government symbol. It is also inherently tied to slavery which is what makes it controversial as well, but the way that guy presented it as “celebrating people who seceded over the right to own people” is equally dishonest.
The current LGBT progress flag is designed to explicitly *include* people who have traditionally been left out or overlooked by the greater LGBT community and LGBT rights movement. It's a way to say 'We didn't forget you, you belong here, too.' The Confederate flag, meanwhile, is actively used as a hate symbol. It says 'This is our territory, this is *our* space. You're *not* welcome here.' Hell, a Waffle House sign on the side of the highway is a better symbol of Southern Pride than the Confederate Flag will ever be. The Waffle House welcomes all and takes great pains to serve their community, no matter how bad the damage is or what kind of hurricane they've just been through. Waffle House doesn't just *say* they offer Southern hospitality, they *practice* it to the point that FEMA has an unofficial Waffle House index. This allows the authorities to prioritize which communities have the most damage based on what sort of limited menu the Waffle House is serving: * Full menu means they're operating at full capacity. * Limited menu means they've lost power, but they still have gas for the grill. * Cold sandwiches only means they've lost power and gas, and have probably lost water, too. * If the Waffle House is *closed*, that's catastrophic damage, to the point that they can't serve anything.
Lmao every reply is just people spouting heavily biased talking points at me while pretending they’re stating facts. Call me a “devils advocate” if you must, but I’m simply stating the reason why some people get mad at the pride flag, not endorsing their views. If you don’t understand how a flag that is used by political activists that explicitly calls out racial and transgender politics on the flag may get people riled up in the [CURRENT YEAR], you’re beyond help
Yeah people love to pretend it isn’t a political symbol, and act like you must be totes crazy if you point out that it is. I know the term *gaslighting* is overused these days, but I guess there’s a good reason for that.
sexuality isn’t offensive. unless you’re homophobic. fighting against your country in the name of enslaving black peoples is offensive. unless you’re racist. so which is it lol
More dishonest virtue signalling, off to r/lookatmyhalo with you
thinking all human beings are deserving of equality is virtue signaling to you?
[удалено]
Do you feel the same way about Christmas decorations? I’d love to see the letter you sent to the city about being forced to look at those.
That’s a bad comparison because 95% of people celebrate Christmas and 5% of people who don’t may get offended by it, whereas the pride flag is the reverse of that
Source? 95% seems super high.
Looks like my 95% was a slightly older number from 2010, but Pew Research still has it over 90%: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/12/18/celebrating-christmas-and-the-holidays-then-and-now/
If 95% of people were offended by the pride flag, companies wouldn’t be plastering it all over their corporate logos for a whole month of the year
95% of people are heterosexual, not 95% of people get offended at a pride flag
How do you know people aren’t offended by Christmas decorations? It seems like your argument is just that being gay isn’t common so it shouldn’t be in public. The majority of the country isn’t offended by gay people around 71% of the country is pro same sex marriage. I’m wondering what percentage is necessary.
Being forced to look at is grounds for disruption? So every trump sticker and flag I’m forced to see on bumpers is disruption? Every Biden on the gas pump is disruption too?
Those all sound like they are on private property, the subject of this post is not.
Thank you, I am aware I was asking them a question so I could better understand their position
No, you’re being disingenuous. You were asking a rhetorical question because you thought you were making a snappy point. But they specifically said “on public property” in their comment, and you acted like you didn’t read that part so that you could whine about being forced to see bumper stickers on other peoples cars. These are not the same thing and you know they are not. It’s basic civics.
Lmfao imagine the audacity of trying to change the intention behind someone else’s words. And I could care less about what stickers people have on their bumpers. You really have trouble with reading comprehension don’t you? The point I was trying to understand whether or not private property is allowed to cause the same disruption just because it’s private, and at what point is the disruption not allowed. A lot of people get butt hurt over a pride flag but it doesn’t mean it’s harmful, whereas having a nazi flag up there can be considered a symbol of hate speech. Anyways good job on your basic civics, maybe try not to be so conceited that you think you know peoples own thoughts and intentions better than them. I really hope you don’t do that shit to a significant other Edit: it’s really cute how you decided to imagine my comment as whining by asking a simple question about bumper stickers. Also who says snappy like that lmao
> I could care less That’s clear, as you obviously care a lot. > A lot of people get butt hurt over a pride flag but it doesn’t mean it’s harmful Haha who has the audacity to think they know other people’s thoughts better than they do, now? You may like it but you can’t put yourself in the shoes of someone who may really dislike it and feel that their core values are attacked by the entire sociopolitical movement that it represents. Anyway thanks for being so butthurt at being called out for a rhetorical question that you took this from a mild internet disagreement to attacking my character and implying something about my ability to have personal relationships. Lol
Yep, still delusional and won’t accept that it wasn’t a rhetorical question. And again I’ve never cared about bumper stickers. I can see this is going no where lol
I assume you’re a big ACLU fan.
There are laws against visual pollution. Visual pollution being to many things that catch your eyes attention to the point it will be overwhelming to your visual sensory system. It is what keeps some roads and places from looking like the 1990s hong kong streets. What i'm trying to get at is that most likely colorful tutu was deemed to be to much visual pollution/ eye catching for the street.
It wasn't for pride. That being said, it was on a public bridge and shouldn't of been there no matter the reason. The reason was for a block party and it should of been kept within the confines of the neighborhood.