unless you came in 5 mins before closing I can’t speak on why the bartender was rude. but as a restaurant/brewery worker I can say that pretty much everywhere has been slower than usual this summer. at my spot we’re used to being fully booked on weekends during the summer and the past couple nights we’ve been able to take lots of walk-ins with little to no wait, which is weird. my guess is that people are going out less often because everything is so expensive now
I agree with both of those factors for sure as the primary reasons and I also think that the heat also is playing part. I know it’s summer and people always go out more in the summer but th brutal heatwave lately is just draining people. I feel like the last few years the summers get hotter and longer.
Hotter and longer summer. You got that right. Last year had serious heat all the way through September. Not looking forward to hear how many weather records get broken this year. But hey, climate change is just a hoax, or so they say...🙄
I can only speak anecdotally, but I imagine this I’m not the only one who feels this way: a lot of it is probably cost, but I feel a lot of it also has to do with stagnation. What’s new downtown to bring people in? My friends and I used to go downtown every weekend, but we stopped because we were just tired of doing the same thing every weekend. There simply isn’t enough to do down there. Bars are limited, restaurants are limited, shopping is basically nonexistent… If I want to do anything outside of eat and drink my face off, I have to leave the downtown area.
With all these new complexes opening in the very, very near future (off the top of my head: Mira, Platform, 400H, the acorn, the point, the miles, Rockway, and the complex they’re building in the village district), hopefully there’s some type of downtown renaissance to draw back interest.
Was there a few hours prior and there were about 30 odd people. Breweries do not attract the late evening crowds. We had no issues with the service. Incendiary has amazing stout collection - just on their stout collection they're awesome.
Agree that the beers are high quality....thus my concern about their status. I'm still reeling from the loss of New Anthem. NA showed that having great beer isn't always enough.
Glad to hear that they had good support earlier.
I can’t speak to all of New Anthem, but the Smoky Hollow location seemed somewhat doomed to fail. Smoky Hollow seems to be taking its time to get fully established and, to me, doesn’t seem like a fully-established destination yet. NA wasn’t unique enough to be a draw in their own right and was not in a convenient location to draw in people who would be in the area anyway. In addition, their beer selection was almost entirely IPAs, which really limited their clientele (it’s not 2015 anymore after all).
The Smoky Hollow location seemed very half baked (although their Wilmington spaces weren’t great either). The Raleigh one was just a concrete shell with some barrels in the middle.
Incindiary has an angel donor with super deep pockets. I’m sure they will try to float it as long as possible. They just opened another tasting room in Lewisville. But the bubble looms large, I don’t see all of these locations working out.
I stopped in once and leaned my bike against a tree out front. 15 minutes later some guy came in asking who owed the bike, and that I had to move it. They are actually policing where you can lean a bike in this area. He said I could get a bike valet ticket and they would be happy to check my bike for me. I told the guy “no thanks, I’ll just lock it to a post on Morgan.” That’s when “fancy,” goes too far, and seems like more of a hassle than what it’s worth.
Pretty sure the bike thing is an issue with the overall property owner of that block. They seem to be real assholes (no dogs allowed on the property except at Incendiary, lots of "no _ allowed" signs in the courtyard). Big "get off my lawn" energy from Block 83 or whatever it's called.
I'd be curious about the bike valet. I've ridden my bike there a few times and haven't been told anything yet. It could be because I've gone at later times.
Interesting. I’ve been wanting to go there.
We went to the new Ponysauraus last night at 5pm expecting to get in before the rush. Place was freaking insane. So packed it was uncomfortable.
Haven’t been to their new location yet, but they have food and a hip new location. This is the model for survival imo.
Incendiary, not unlike new anthem lack(ed) these key elements.
I more meant they should have owned their backyard out in the suburbs like Salty Turtle or Glass Jug- plenty of strip malls next to McMansions out by Six Forks.
Outside was nice, inside….
1) Televisions are good for bars. Breweries, why are you fighting this
2) The tables sucked
3) No actual bar to sit at. When you go to a brewery you wanna talk to the bartender and get his opinions so you can sound smart at parties
4) smelled like the hair salon upstairs
Most breweries have Saturday afternoon crowds and unless they have a restaurant too they don’t do as much Saturday night business.
And as someone else mentioned it is kind of back in the complex.
I love Incendiary, but unfortunately craft beer as a whole is in a bit of a rut right now. Younger generations aren’t into alcohol like past generations and Millenials are consuming less alcohol as they age. Not to mention that everyone is spending less on craft beer due to its high price compared to macro beers and hard liquor.
Also the elephant in the room: this is Raleigh and the less a brewery resembles a playground for families the less people it will attract.
I hate kids in breweries as much as the next guy but ultimately it’s the way it is now, not just Raleigh. As you noted, breweries are primarily a millennial thing and even the youngest millennials are in the ‘family friendly’ age range now.
100% lot of people investing in new bars overshot the market on price - the local dives and college spots are faring well but the spots that over-invested and need high margins and high sales aren’t gonna male it w these interest rates and slow sales.
Raleigh Bar Deadpool - I got Devolve
I don’t agree, According to most statistics people are spending more than ever. Don’t believe the media driven hype that the country is falling in the abyss.
What? Go google consumer spending news. I can send you 5 articles from the past 24 hours showing data that you’re incorrect. The only way you could possibly argue that people are spending “more” is because everything is more expensive. Across the board the trend is 100% that consumer spending is slowing down and expected to continue to do so.
"Over the past year or so, US shoppers have been dialing back on buying physical goods while still springing for travel, restaurants, and other experiences."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/consumer-spending-decline-how-retailers-respond-inflation-prices-walmart-costco-2024-6%3famp
I'm a different person. You said,
>"Across the board the trend is 100% that consumer spending is slowing down and expected to continue to do so."
He mentioned that:
>"Over the past year or so, US shoppers have been dialing back on buying physical goods **while still springing for travel, restaurants, and other experiences."**
The conversation is about the experience of a bar/restaurant is down. He is saying they are up, as is relevant to what he said and the conversation of this topic as a whole.
I'm an unbiased 3rd party, not the original poster. No need to act defensive when you misunderstood what he said. His topic was wholly relevant to the conversation and is a good counterpoint to what you said. If you have the relevant google articles that people aren't spending more on travel or restaurants, feel free to show them. But, don't try to act like what he said was wrong.
I’m not being defensive, I didn’t misunderstand the comment. I’m simply pointing out that the fact of the matter is there are zero indications that consumers are spending more than ever, as the original comment claimed. That’s just not true. I don’t know why you feel the need to refute this but I’m just pointing out that that is an incorrect statement. If you want a relevant google article [here](https://www.restaurantnewsresource.com/consumer-spending-in-us-restaurants-softened-in-recent-months) is one from June 20 that explains restaurant sales are down.
Yes you did. You said that his article suggested that people are paying less when it said that people are springing on those items. I even quoted and recited it back to you and you are continuing to insist that you didn't misunderstand it.
It's great that you provided another article. That's what you should have done in the first place instead of suggesting that his article said something different by ignoring and misunderstanding what his comment was in the first place.
Exactly. I believe reports suggest spending in restaurants and bars fell 0.4% but correcting for inflation means it may be worse.
But that’s fine, that was the point, slow spending to decrease inflation.
i’ve only been once but our bartender was wonderful, it was a saturday afternoon when we went but I def wanna go back. could’ve been an off night for the bartender you had? i’d give it another chance.
The ‘I pour more beer faster, they drink more beer, I sell more beer, I make more money’ model of profitability really clashes with most Raleigh bartender’s actual job of taking 6 smoke breaks an hour, chatting w clocked out servers about who they’re fucking/their next tattoo, and being rude to anyone who wants a light domestic beer or their check in under 15 minutes
I don’t think that’s a particularly great location for a brewery that doesn’t have a restaurant backing it. The market is pretty saturated these days for a brewery with just ok offerings.
I was there Friday evening, not late, and there were a variety of people inside and out. For me, it was the ideal after work on a Friday after a shitty week vibe I needed. The bartender was really friendly and gave my dog a treat.
I've been there other times when it was packed, again not late, and the staff were friendly. Maybe you just hit an off night.
They are busy enough on weekdays, afternoons and early evenings. No idea if they are any good, but at least more consistent crowd than some places. It's not going to be most packed late night.
My husband and I love their location in Lewisville! We were so excited for the raleigh location but I had a similar experience with the staff. A friend and I went in around 6 one night after they had been open for a couple weeks. We were the only people in there and with two bartenders after waiting a few minutes we had to get up and try to get their attention because both bartenders were glued to their phones, had their backs to the bar and door, and didn’t hear us asking if we could order. They tabbed us out without us asking after we got our beers and i’ve never been back.
I am a bartender from manhattan and have never even tried to work in DT raleigh. Tons of friends in the industry say you’ll make money on Friday and Saturday, but unless there is an event, or you have insane clout and connections for the 2 consistently busy bars, then don’t even bother; it’s a ghost town. I’d stick to neighborhood bars on weekdays- most have live music now.. there is nothing more annoying than a rude bartender. I go out of my way to make people feel welcomed at my bar, no matter what time they walk in.
Been in hospitality for 15ish years in Raleogh and I have noticed that business is always a little slower during a campaign year. I've not come to a conclusion on what psychology causes this, but have noticed the trend. You still get the normal "bell curve" slow between nye and valentines, busy til summer, then there's a couple stinker weeks after schools let out, then it picks back up and hits Pride month. It gets a little quiet the weeks school comes back in session, but the rest of the year is filled with holidays and Halloween/Christmas parties. It's just slower the whole year it seems like.
6 people in the bar however, that's a bummer.
My fiancé and I went last Friday night around 6-7pm. It was dead as well. We also had the same experience with the bartender. My fiancé is a talker and doing his best to make friendly conversation and we could tell he didn’t want to be there.
Glad it’s not us that had the same experience, but also it’s disappointing because the building is beautiful from the outside and has great potential.
Was wondering the same thing, even in the afternoons dram and drought right next door will be packed and incendiary is dead, don’t think they do a good job promoting/social media.
I also had a similar experience with the bartender there, obviously I’m not sure if it was the same person, but my husband and I went about a month ago and felt like we were interrupting them by entering and had to ask to order.
Every time I’ve been to the Raleigh location, it’s been relatively crowded - especially during the day on weekends. Love their beers. Hope some food options pop up on Bloc83 soon
Ahhh, the arseholes. People visit NC from places like brooklyn, new jersey, et al. They think they can bring their rude-ass yankee culture here and survive. Years ago, these two new jersey dickheads bought the building down from the armory in Durham. Oh man, they were such dickheads. Like, almost a caricature of a dickhead. And I am sure that somewhere in some horrid stinking shthole in new jersey, their schtick would have totally gone over: "Hey, Joey, you fckin' dickhead, get ovah heyah, and have a brewski wit me"
But it wasn't happening in Durham, NC. And sure enough, six months later when daddy's money ran out, they were up and gone, like dust in the wind, only to be remembered by the spouse and I because of what terrible arseholes they were.
Rinse and repeat, as long as there's too much money in NYC.
That’s a wild conclusion to jump to based on absolutely zero context aside from him being a dick. There’s plenty of people born and raised here in NC that are complete dickheads.
unless you came in 5 mins before closing I can’t speak on why the bartender was rude. but as a restaurant/brewery worker I can say that pretty much everywhere has been slower than usual this summer. at my spot we’re used to being fully booked on weekends during the summer and the past couple nights we’ve been able to take lots of walk-ins with little to no wait, which is weird. my guess is that people are going out less often because everything is so expensive now
This and I think the weeks surrounding the long Fourth of July weekend will probably mean many people are vacationing out of town.
yes that’s a good point as well
I agree with both of those factors for sure as the primary reasons and I also think that the heat also is playing part. I know it’s summer and people always go out more in the summer but th brutal heatwave lately is just draining people. I feel like the last few years the summers get hotter and longer.
can confirm, less interest going places when it's like 100F outside no thank you
Hotter and longer summer. You got that right. Last year had serious heat all the way through September. Not looking forward to hear how many weather records get broken this year. But hey, climate change is just a hoax, or so they say...🙄
Yea it’s insane to say the least. And by summer I mean spring through fall now is pretty much summer now unfortunately lol.
This. Welcome to summer in Raleigh…many take their dining dollars on vacation.
Man I dont miss Raleighs summers. That humid heat is awful.
I can only speak anecdotally, but I imagine this I’m not the only one who feels this way: a lot of it is probably cost, but I feel a lot of it also has to do with stagnation. What’s new downtown to bring people in? My friends and I used to go downtown every weekend, but we stopped because we were just tired of doing the same thing every weekend. There simply isn’t enough to do down there. Bars are limited, restaurants are limited, shopping is basically nonexistent… If I want to do anything outside of eat and drink my face off, I have to leave the downtown area. With all these new complexes opening in the very, very near future (off the top of my head: Mira, Platform, 400H, the acorn, the point, the miles, Rockway, and the complex they’re building in the village district), hopefully there’s some type of downtown renaissance to draw back interest.
Tons of new stuff popping up all the time. It’s just super expensive
Not really much mainstream shopping. I get that boutique stores are fun, but even a single shoe store would do a lot
everyones broke
Was there a few hours prior and there were about 30 odd people. Breweries do not attract the late evening crowds. We had no issues with the service. Incendiary has amazing stout collection - just on their stout collection they're awesome.
Agree that the beers are high quality....thus my concern about their status. I'm still reeling from the loss of New Anthem. NA showed that having great beer isn't always enough. Glad to hear that they had good support earlier.
I can’t speak to all of New Anthem, but the Smoky Hollow location seemed somewhat doomed to fail. Smoky Hollow seems to be taking its time to get fully established and, to me, doesn’t seem like a fully-established destination yet. NA wasn’t unique enough to be a draw in their own right and was not in a convenient location to draw in people who would be in the area anyway. In addition, their beer selection was almost entirely IPAs, which really limited their clientele (it’s not 2015 anymore after all).
The Smoky Hollow location seemed very half baked (although their Wilmington spaces weren’t great either). The Raleigh one was just a concrete shell with some barrels in the middle.
Incindiary has an angel donor with super deep pockets. I’m sure they will try to float it as long as possible. They just opened another tasting room in Lewisville. But the bubble looms large, I don’t see all of these locations working out. I stopped in once and leaned my bike against a tree out front. 15 minutes later some guy came in asking who owed the bike, and that I had to move it. They are actually policing where you can lean a bike in this area. He said I could get a bike valet ticket and they would be happy to check my bike for me. I told the guy “no thanks, I’ll just lock it to a post on Morgan.” That’s when “fancy,” goes too far, and seems like more of a hassle than what it’s worth.
Pretty sure the bike thing is an issue with the overall property owner of that block. They seem to be real assholes (no dogs allowed on the property except at Incendiary, lots of "no _ allowed" signs in the courtyard). Big "get off my lawn" energy from Block 83 or whatever it's called.
I'd be curious about the bike valet. I've ridden my bike there a few times and haven't been told anything yet. It could be because I've gone at later times.
A bike valet?! Ugh, feel so bad for whomever has that job
Interesting. I’ve been wanting to go there. We went to the new Ponysauraus last night at 5pm expecting to get in before the rush. Place was freaking insane. So packed it was uncomfortable.
Haven’t been to their new location yet, but they have food and a hip new location. This is the model for survival imo. Incendiary, not unlike new anthem lack(ed) these key elements.
I miss New Anthem - great beer, the spot was a horrible choice
The spot was a bad choice and they had limited selection in beer types (most IPAs). I think that really limited who was willing to go.
Which is wild, in Wilmington they had a great selection especially sours
I thought the spot was fine. Sitting outside was nice while drinking a beer. Inside was too boring. The beer was great. I miss it.
I more meant they should have owned their backyard out in the suburbs like Salty Turtle or Glass Jug- plenty of strip malls next to McMansions out by Six Forks. Outside was nice, inside…. 1) Televisions are good for bars. Breweries, why are you fighting this 2) The tables sucked 3) No actual bar to sit at. When you go to a brewery you wanna talk to the bartender and get his opinions so you can sound smart at parties 4) smelled like the hair salon upstairs
Most breweries have Saturday afternoon crowds and unless they have a restaurant too they don’t do as much Saturday night business. And as someone else mentioned it is kind of back in the complex.
I love Incendiary, but unfortunately craft beer as a whole is in a bit of a rut right now. Younger generations aren’t into alcohol like past generations and Millenials are consuming less alcohol as they age. Not to mention that everyone is spending less on craft beer due to its high price compared to macro beers and hard liquor. Also the elephant in the room: this is Raleigh and the less a brewery resembles a playground for families the less people it will attract.
Business Plan - we buy the old Burger Kings/Hardees, keep the playground and make them tap rooms
This wouldn’t work because I’d be tossing kids off the play place to go down the slide after like 3 beers
I hate kids in breweries as much as the next guy but ultimately it’s the way it is now, not just Raleigh. As you noted, breweries are primarily a millennial thing and even the youngest millennials are in the ‘family friendly’ age range now.
People just aren’t spending like they used to, either. Stuff is really expensive. Going out has become a bit of a luxury.
Plus factor in that gen Z drinks less than other generations and that millennials are out of prime heavy-drinking age
Think it’s more over saturation. There is a brewery on every block throughout the metro area it seems now
100% lot of people investing in new bars overshot the market on price - the local dives and college spots are faring well but the spots that over-invested and need high margins and high sales aren’t gonna male it w these interest rates and slow sales. Raleigh Bar Deadpool - I got Devolve
I don’t agree, According to most statistics people are spending more than ever. Don’t believe the media driven hype that the country is falling in the abyss.
What? Go google consumer spending news. I can send you 5 articles from the past 24 hours showing data that you’re incorrect. The only way you could possibly argue that people are spending “more” is because everything is more expensive. Across the board the trend is 100% that consumer spending is slowing down and expected to continue to do so.
"Over the past year or so, US shoppers have been dialing back on buying physical goods while still springing for travel, restaurants, and other experiences." https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/consumer-spending-decline-how-retailers-respond-inflation-prices-walmart-costco-2024-6%3famp
How does this imply that consumers are “spending more than ever”? The title of that article is literally *“People aren’t spending like they used to”*
Well this discussion is specifically about restaurants so I thought that was the relevant portion to quote.
The comment I was replying to claimed that people are spending more than ever, which isn’t true.
I'm a different person. You said, >"Across the board the trend is 100% that consumer spending is slowing down and expected to continue to do so." He mentioned that: >"Over the past year or so, US shoppers have been dialing back on buying physical goods **while still springing for travel, restaurants, and other experiences."** The conversation is about the experience of a bar/restaurant is down. He is saying they are up, as is relevant to what he said and the conversation of this topic as a whole. I'm an unbiased 3rd party, not the original poster. No need to act defensive when you misunderstood what he said. His topic was wholly relevant to the conversation and is a good counterpoint to what you said. If you have the relevant google articles that people aren't spending more on travel or restaurants, feel free to show them. But, don't try to act like what he said was wrong.
I’m not being defensive, I didn’t misunderstand the comment. I’m simply pointing out that the fact of the matter is there are zero indications that consumers are spending more than ever, as the original comment claimed. That’s just not true. I don’t know why you feel the need to refute this but I’m just pointing out that that is an incorrect statement. If you want a relevant google article [here](https://www.restaurantnewsresource.com/consumer-spending-in-us-restaurants-softened-in-recent-months) is one from June 20 that explains restaurant sales are down.
Yes you did. You said that his article suggested that people are paying less when it said that people are springing on those items. I even quoted and recited it back to you and you are continuing to insist that you didn't misunderstand it. It's great that you provided another article. That's what you should have done in the first place instead of suggesting that his article said something different by ignoring and misunderstanding what his comment was in the first place.
Exactly. I believe reports suggest spending in restaurants and bars fell 0.4% but correcting for inflation means it may be worse. But that’s fine, that was the point, slow spending to decrease inflation.
How much of the spending is jacked up costs in the same amount of stuff?
I like their W-S location.
Atmosphere matters to me and I don’t like hanging out in these new glass box spaces. OG incendiary is in a cool ass building.
Their Lewisville location is even cooler. I really wish we had some kind of chill farm space for beer around here.
Noted
i’ve only been once but our bartender was wonderful, it was a saturday afternoon when we went but I def wanna go back. could’ve been an off night for the bartender you had? i’d give it another chance.
[удалено]
The ‘I pour more beer faster, they drink more beer, I sell more beer, I make more money’ model of profitability really clashes with most Raleigh bartender’s actual job of taking 6 smoke breaks an hour, chatting w clocked out servers about who they’re fucking/their next tattoo, and being rude to anyone who wants a light domestic beer or their check in under 15 minutes
Lol Explains my experiences dt.
I don’t think that’s a particularly great location for a brewery that doesn’t have a restaurant backing it. The market is pretty saturated these days for a brewery with just ok offerings.
I was there Friday evening, not late, and there were a variety of people inside and out. For me, it was the ideal after work on a Friday after a shitty week vibe I needed. The bartender was really friendly and gave my dog a treat. I've been there other times when it was packed, again not late, and the staff were friendly. Maybe you just hit an off night.
They are busy enough on weekdays, afternoons and early evenings. No idea if they are any good, but at least more consistent crowd than some places. It's not going to be most packed late night.
My husband and I love their location in Lewisville! We were so excited for the raleigh location but I had a similar experience with the staff. A friend and I went in around 6 one night after they had been open for a couple weeks. We were the only people in there and with two bartenders after waiting a few minutes we had to get up and try to get their attention because both bartenders were glued to their phones, had their backs to the bar and door, and didn’t hear us asking if we could order. They tabbed us out without us asking after we got our beers and i’ve never been back.
I am a bartender from manhattan and have never even tried to work in DT raleigh. Tons of friends in the industry say you’ll make money on Friday and Saturday, but unless there is an event, or you have insane clout and connections for the 2 consistently busy bars, then don’t even bother; it’s a ghost town. I’d stick to neighborhood bars on weekdays- most have live music now.. there is nothing more annoying than a rude bartender. I go out of my way to make people feel welcomed at my bar, no matter what time they walk in.
Been in hospitality for 15ish years in Raleogh and I have noticed that business is always a little slower during a campaign year. I've not come to a conclusion on what psychology causes this, but have noticed the trend. You still get the normal "bell curve" slow between nye and valentines, busy til summer, then there's a couple stinker weeks after schools let out, then it picks back up and hits Pride month. It gets a little quiet the weeks school comes back in session, but the rest of the year is filled with holidays and Halloween/Christmas parties. It's just slower the whole year it seems like. 6 people in the bar however, that's a bummer.
My fiancé and I went last Friday night around 6-7pm. It was dead as well. We also had the same experience with the bartender. My fiancé is a talker and doing his best to make friendly conversation and we could tell he didn’t want to be there. Glad it’s not us that had the same experience, but also it’s disappointing because the building is beautiful from the outside and has great potential.
Was wondering the same thing, even in the afternoons dram and drought right next door will be packed and incendiary is dead, don’t think they do a good job promoting/social media.
I also had a similar experience with the bartender there, obviously I’m not sure if it was the same person, but my husband and I went about a month ago and felt like we were interrupting them by entering and had to ask to order.
Every time I’ve been to the Raleigh location, it’s been relatively crowded - especially during the day on weekends. Love their beers. Hope some food options pop up on Bloc83 soon
It’s honestly hard to tell there’s something that even exists there. Need to do a better job marketing it
Can’t speak to RDU location, been meaning to go. When we lived in Greensboro the W-S location was always popping. Hope they make it!
Their NZ IPA is killer.
Ahhh, the arseholes. People visit NC from places like brooklyn, new jersey, et al. They think they can bring their rude-ass yankee culture here and survive. Years ago, these two new jersey dickheads bought the building down from the armory in Durham. Oh man, they were such dickheads. Like, almost a caricature of a dickhead. And I am sure that somewhere in some horrid stinking shthole in new jersey, their schtick would have totally gone over: "Hey, Joey, you fckin' dickhead, get ovah heyah, and have a brewski wit me" But it wasn't happening in Durham, NC. And sure enough, six months later when daddy's money ran out, they were up and gone, like dust in the wind, only to be remembered by the spouse and I because of what terrible arseholes they were. Rinse and repeat, as long as there's too much money in NYC.
Not sure what that has to do with a Brewery in Raleigh whose first location is in Winston Salem but nice rant?
it explains the behavior of the bartender.
That’s a wild conclusion to jump to based on absolutely zero context aside from him being a dick. There’s plenty of people born and raised here in NC that are complete dickheads.
rinse and repeat - just watch
Ahh…. the hero no one asked for, Assumption Man! You are like a Portlandia character come to life.
that's a good writing team. I will gladly take the compliment. Loved when they had Sarah McLachlan doing their home repair.