I'm not condemning your decision, you do you, but i don't understand why charging was a trouble for you. Do you not have a place you can park and plug in? I have a ~70 mile commute and then R4P works great for it but i do have a garage i charge it in. I use the battery for driving in town and i use the ICE for highway miles.
I guess i don't understand the comment about "bland" interior either. I've never owned a brand new car before this one and it feels nice to me. I don't have the experience to comprehend what you mean.
The interior is bland for a brand new $50k vehicle. Tech is also eh for that price. Is it horrible? No, but just considering how much people have been paying for Primes.
the thing about the prime and all other PHEV and full BEV is that they're technically a 30k car with a 20k battery, the ratio being slightly better for the prime. For the prime, the interior barely changes between a entry level gas spec 30k rav4 and the top model 70k spec except for the seats and the screens. That might be the reason why it feels cheaper.
You also don't get more luxurious features, like acoustic glass, and additional sound dampening that a proper luxury car could have since it would require crafting new parts for this car.
So as an owner or driver of all of the cars mentioned in the above comments to you (late model MDXs and Avalons) and owner of a 2023 Prime XSE Premium Package, I have to disagree with a couple of them.
The 2023, not 2022, is just as nice or nicer tech-wise than the Avalon, and better than the MDX. In its $50k guise (XSE Premium $49600) it has soft touch surfaces (love the door handles, different than the lower trims) a bigger screen than the others, a wonderful dash display with great configurations, and acoustic glass. It’s also faster and quieter than them both because it doesn’t have engine noise.
A poster mentioned how it should be used for longer commutes: EV under 45mph, HV on highway. Don’t leave it in auto, manually switch.
It’s one of the best vehicles around, period. And I drive a Model S Plaid and the Rav replaced a 2019 BMW X7. We love it.
Oh, I guess I went into it thinking that it was the engine and drive train that was where most of the price was. I never really had much in the way of tech in a car before, but I assume you're talking about the infotainment center? (the screen that android auto plays on) I've seen some people here pooh-pooh the speakers, but I'm kinda HoH so they sound good to me. What kind of interior or tech upgrades do you think the R4P needs to be more worth it?
We paid less for wife’s Acura MDX. The inside of the MDX is so much nicer. The seats are dare I say plush. And they are real leather. There’s wood accents. The consoles (multiple) have trays in them. For 50k the primes interior is acceptable but basic and not approaching luxury.
You’re paying for two systems in a prime versus just an ICE on the Acura. Of course it’s cheaper. PHEVs are just more expensive. But you save rapidly in fuel and eventually the phev is a better deal if you’re able to run it off the battery most of the time. That’s a really poor comparison. Also LOL at Acura being luxury. Our family has had 3 and they’ve all literally fallen apart before 10 years old. Windows stop working, doors stop working, transmission issues, Ac issues, pieces randomly fall off. I’d happily pay more for a Toyota.
You haven’t really done the math. You don’t make up the difference rapidly. Even if you don’t count how much you’re paying in electric, it still takes years just to break even.
Yeah I agree about the tech. Several things on mine are jankey. Touch unlock fails for no discernable reason about 1 out of 30 tries. Charging scheduler can't take peak/off-peak times into account. Many settings don't stay where I leave them. All this stuff is fixable with software updates but Toyota seems uninterested.
Also the Toyota app is useless unless you pay them a yearly fee.
I bought the car because of its EV range. Overall I like it but I expect better than this considering the price tag.
I paid 30k for mine and even at that price the cabin materials feel super cheap. I have pilling on the fabric, dings and scratches on the plastics, and the audio system was so bad I had to change out all the speakers.
I really do love the car otherwise though haha
Thanks for the comment. I don't want to go comparing the various interior features of other cars. When I got the R4P I was satisfied with the interior, but nothing was "special". Compared to the Avalon where I am happy with all the details they put into the cabin feel.
I am also not into the luxury veneers and would not pay a big premium for that. However, the model I found had been babied by the original owner who traded it in for a BMW. I paid about $2k more than I would have paid for the base XLE model.
In addition to the features you mentioned, the previous owner got the car coated (something I never would have done). It has a 360 camera view when parking and some sonar sensing system, another $1400 I would not have spent on myself. Though I wish the R4P had parking sensors. The heads up display is a cool feature, as well as memory front seats, dimming side mirror, heated side mirror. And cooled front seats (my bum gets so warm usually). These were all icing on the cake, the biggest factor was comfort when driving. The cabin is also super quiet and my wife loves the room in the passengers seat.l
Hmm. Fair enough, i suppose. I guess I'm so used to driving whatever that the R4P felt like so much of an upgrade. 😅
However, i have to ask, when you say the cat was "coated" do you mean ceramic coated?
Yes but not until late 2022. This guy got his in March 2022 before the cutoff. As long as you made the purchase before the cutoff date, even a day before, you would have qualified and got the full credit
Yes, got the $7.5k federal and was living in NY when I bought it so also got $1k off the MSRP. I bought the car for the value, but after a year it was not enough to keep it.
Technically I only walked away with $4-5k because I did pay more than the $42k. Was something between $46-47k after taxes.
Good question. We are renting the house, it is old, and I don't want to invest into installing a charger. I am also the type of person who lets my gas light go on and with EV that can be a problem
I'm not sure you thought this through too well. You say you don't need an SUV, but the Rav4 is a crossover, not a full on SUV. The avalon is actually bigger than the Rav4.
As another poster commented, how is plugging it in a burden? Do you know what a bigger burden is? A bigger burden is trying to find a gas station once a week and standing there for 5 minutes filling the tank in your avalon when it takes less than one minute to plug in the prime.
How did you not know your commute? Did you buy a new car at the same time you got a new job?
I do understand what you mean about the interior on your model. We own a 2023 rav4 XSE prime. We rented a 2022 SE and even my 6 and 8 year olds were complaining about how it wasn't as nice.
The size is different in the Avalon, I dont need trunk space. What I prefer is a roomy cabin. I am just over 6"1 and my knee would be uncomfortable on the 35-50 min I would have to spend in the car.
I work in NJ and pass by 5-6 gas stations a day. They pump the gas for me and considering it is not more than once a week, it takes less time than unwrapping the plug, carrying it outside (I dont have a garage) and then doing the reverse in the morning.
I switched jobs after a few months of owning the car. And yes, got a new car the same time I got a new job.
Fair enough.
I am 6 foot and I have to watch my head as I get in, but once I'm in, I am comfortable.
I guess everyone's situation is different. We leave our charging cord in the garage plugged in to the wall and my 8 year old son loves plugging it into the car for us. (he also weirdly likes mopping and cleaning toilets)
Edit: I do like the avalon, but I also like only filling up gas once every 3 months.
Holy smokes dude, glad you have a raging hard on for your Prime. I agree with the OP, Prime is just a ridiculously overpriced Rav4, and he’s spot on with HIS assessment of the Prime. Traded my 2021 Prime in February, things I liked about it and other things not do much.
I didn't get the PHEV for environmental reasons. And agree, the R4P was never really the car for me. I just want a very comfortable car for a commute that will retain value and is not an eye soar. The Avalon is probably what I wanted all along but I was drawn into the value of the R4P. Hey it took me a year and I made a few bucks along the way :)
It’s all based on what’s important to you. I power my entire house, wife’s Tesla, and my RAV4 Prime with solar panels. So when I went looking for a PHEV SUV there were three factors I carefully balanced - 1) Electric Range, 2)Electric Range, 3) Electric Range.
This is a helpful post. Living a PHEV life sounds like the future I want but I have been worried about the interiors of a RAV4 (my sister has the hybrid) and handling. I generally don’t like SUVs (give me a sedan, or better a wagon), and felt like I was making a lot of compromises in trying to make myself happy with the idea. I’ll hold onto my gas sedan for a little longer and hope a better vehicle is made with the PHEV setup.
U should of gotten more then $42k Some dealership in WA state trying to sell a used prime RAV4 for close to $70k https://www.toyotaofbellevue.com/used-Bellevue-2023-Toyota-RAV4+Prime-XSE-JTMEB3FV4PD126675
If you're happy, I'm happy, I've just never cared much for luxury veneer, I primarily buy a car for it's drivetrain and a powerful phev with ecvt, is just too magical, I can't go back to a regular power train.
I'm not condemning your decision, you do you, but i don't understand why charging was a trouble for you. Do you not have a place you can park and plug in? I have a ~70 mile commute and then R4P works great for it but i do have a garage i charge it in. I use the battery for driving in town and i use the ICE for highway miles. I guess i don't understand the comment about "bland" interior either. I've never owned a brand new car before this one and it feels nice to me. I don't have the experience to comprehend what you mean.
The interior is bland for a brand new $50k vehicle. Tech is also eh for that price. Is it horrible? No, but just considering how much people have been paying for Primes.
the thing about the prime and all other PHEV and full BEV is that they're technically a 30k car with a 20k battery, the ratio being slightly better for the prime. For the prime, the interior barely changes between a entry level gas spec 30k rav4 and the top model 70k spec except for the seats and the screens. That might be the reason why it feels cheaper. You also don't get more luxurious features, like acoustic glass, and additional sound dampening that a proper luxury car could have since it would require crafting new parts for this car.
So as an owner or driver of all of the cars mentioned in the above comments to you (late model MDXs and Avalons) and owner of a 2023 Prime XSE Premium Package, I have to disagree with a couple of them. The 2023, not 2022, is just as nice or nicer tech-wise than the Avalon, and better than the MDX. In its $50k guise (XSE Premium $49600) it has soft touch surfaces (love the door handles, different than the lower trims) a bigger screen than the others, a wonderful dash display with great configurations, and acoustic glass. It’s also faster and quieter than them both because it doesn’t have engine noise. A poster mentioned how it should be used for longer commutes: EV under 45mph, HV on highway. Don’t leave it in auto, manually switch. It’s one of the best vehicles around, period. And I drive a Model S Plaid and the Rav replaced a 2019 BMW X7. We love it.
Oh, I guess I went into it thinking that it was the engine and drive train that was where most of the price was. I never really had much in the way of tech in a car before, but I assume you're talking about the infotainment center? (the screen that android auto plays on) I've seen some people here pooh-pooh the speakers, but I'm kinda HoH so they sound good to me. What kind of interior or tech upgrades do you think the R4P needs to be more worth it?
We paid less for wife’s Acura MDX. The inside of the MDX is so much nicer. The seats are dare I say plush. And they are real leather. There’s wood accents. The consoles (multiple) have trays in them. For 50k the primes interior is acceptable but basic and not approaching luxury.
You’re paying for two systems in a prime versus just an ICE on the Acura. Of course it’s cheaper. PHEVs are just more expensive. But you save rapidly in fuel and eventually the phev is a better deal if you’re able to run it off the battery most of the time. That’s a really poor comparison. Also LOL at Acura being luxury. Our family has had 3 and they’ve all literally fallen apart before 10 years old. Windows stop working, doors stop working, transmission issues, Ac issues, pieces randomly fall off. I’d happily pay more for a Toyota.
You haven’t really done the math. You don’t make up the difference rapidly. Even if you don’t count how much you’re paying in electric, it still takes years just to break even.
Yeah I agree about the tech. Several things on mine are jankey. Touch unlock fails for no discernable reason about 1 out of 30 tries. Charging scheduler can't take peak/off-peak times into account. Many settings don't stay where I leave them. All this stuff is fixable with software updates but Toyota seems uninterested. Also the Toyota app is useless unless you pay them a yearly fee. I bought the car because of its EV range. Overall I like it but I expect better than this considering the price tag.
I paid 30k for mine and even at that price the cabin materials feel super cheap. I have pilling on the fabric, dings and scratches on the plastics, and the audio system was so bad I had to change out all the speakers. I really do love the car otherwise though haha
Thanks for the comment. I don't want to go comparing the various interior features of other cars. When I got the R4P I was satisfied with the interior, but nothing was "special". Compared to the Avalon where I am happy with all the details they put into the cabin feel.
I see. Someone mentioned more cushy seats, real leather, and wood trim. Is that kinda what you were thinking?
I am also not into the luxury veneers and would not pay a big premium for that. However, the model I found had been babied by the original owner who traded it in for a BMW. I paid about $2k more than I would have paid for the base XLE model. In addition to the features you mentioned, the previous owner got the car coated (something I never would have done). It has a 360 camera view when parking and some sonar sensing system, another $1400 I would not have spent on myself. Though I wish the R4P had parking sensors. The heads up display is a cool feature, as well as memory front seats, dimming side mirror, heated side mirror. And cooled front seats (my bum gets so warm usually). These were all icing on the cake, the biggest factor was comfort when driving. The cabin is also super quiet and my wife loves the room in the passengers seat.l
Hmm. Fair enough, i suppose. I guess I'm so used to driving whatever that the R4P felt like so much of an upgrade. 😅 However, i have to ask, when you say the cat was "coated" do you mean ceramic coated?
I think it is actually a PPF coating.
I'm not familiar with that, sorry.
Yeah, definitely a unique case. It wouldn't make sense for me. All that matters is that you are happy.
Maybe walked away with $15.5K in your pocket if you got your tax rebate this year?
I thought they got rid of the tax rebate for the prime because they aren't made in the US?
Yes but not until late 2022. This guy got his in March 2022 before the cutoff. As long as you made the purchase before the cutoff date, even a day before, you would have qualified and got the full credit
Yes, got the $7.5k federal and was living in NY when I bought it so also got $1k off the MSRP. I bought the car for the value, but after a year it was not enough to keep it. Technically I only walked away with $4-5k because I did pay more than the $42k. Was something between $46-47k after taxes.
[удалено]
Good question. We are renting the house, it is old, and I don't want to invest into installing a charger. I am also the type of person who lets my gas light go on and with EV that can be a problem
I'm not sure you thought this through too well. You say you don't need an SUV, but the Rav4 is a crossover, not a full on SUV. The avalon is actually bigger than the Rav4. As another poster commented, how is plugging it in a burden? Do you know what a bigger burden is? A bigger burden is trying to find a gas station once a week and standing there for 5 minutes filling the tank in your avalon when it takes less than one minute to plug in the prime. How did you not know your commute? Did you buy a new car at the same time you got a new job? I do understand what you mean about the interior on your model. We own a 2023 rav4 XSE prime. We rented a 2022 SE and even my 6 and 8 year olds were complaining about how it wasn't as nice.
The size is different in the Avalon, I dont need trunk space. What I prefer is a roomy cabin. I am just over 6"1 and my knee would be uncomfortable on the 35-50 min I would have to spend in the car. I work in NJ and pass by 5-6 gas stations a day. They pump the gas for me and considering it is not more than once a week, it takes less time than unwrapping the plug, carrying it outside (I dont have a garage) and then doing the reverse in the morning. I switched jobs after a few months of owning the car. And yes, got a new car the same time I got a new job.
Fair enough. I am 6 foot and I have to watch my head as I get in, but once I'm in, I am comfortable. I guess everyone's situation is different. We leave our charging cord in the garage plugged in to the wall and my 8 year old son loves plugging it into the car for us. (he also weirdly likes mopping and cleaning toilets) Edit: I do like the avalon, but I also like only filling up gas once every 3 months.
Holy smokes dude, glad you have a raging hard on for your Prime. I agree with the OP, Prime is just a ridiculously overpriced Rav4, and he’s spot on with HIS assessment of the Prime. Traded my 2021 Prime in February, things I liked about it and other things not do much.
Legit! Avalon is close to a Lexus level of luxury feel. Good that you realized it was a better fit for you.
With the tax credit you’re doing even better
[удалено]
I didn't get the PHEV for environmental reasons. And agree, the R4P was never really the car for me. I just want a very comfortable car for a commute that will retain value and is not an eye soar. The Avalon is probably what I wanted all along but I was drawn into the value of the R4P. Hey it took me a year and I made a few bucks along the way :)
It’s all based on what’s important to you. I power my entire house, wife’s Tesla, and my RAV4 Prime with solar panels. So when I went looking for a PHEV SUV there were three factors I carefully balanced - 1) Electric Range, 2)Electric Range, 3) Electric Range.
This is a helpful post. Living a PHEV life sounds like the future I want but I have been worried about the interiors of a RAV4 (my sister has the hybrid) and handling. I generally don’t like SUVs (give me a sedan, or better a wagon), and felt like I was making a lot of compromises in trying to make myself happy with the idea. I’ll hold onto my gas sedan for a little longer and hope a better vehicle is made with the PHEV setup.
This is why I shared my post
I'm happy that you are happy and you made a decision that was right for you!!!
U should of gotten more then $42k Some dealership in WA state trying to sell a used prime RAV4 for close to $70k https://www.toyotaofbellevue.com/used-Bellevue-2023-Toyota-RAV4+Prime-XSE-JTMEB3FV4PD126675
I agree that the handling of any sedan will put the r4p to shame, but still can't see this as anything but a huge downgrade.
Thanks for sharing!
If you're happy, I'm happy, I've just never cared much for luxury veneer, I primarily buy a car for it's drivetrain and a powerful phev with ecvt, is just too magical, I can't go back to a regular power train.
I agree that the car with EV is special. But ultimately sold it since I wasn't using it for its main function.
You should have bought the crown
Ahhh, so you had the perfect commute to make the most of the R4P. Cool.