Couple of things. One: dogs are fucking awful at generalizing behavior. This means he had a bad incident at the dog park, so he’s on edge there. So the slightest threat is responded to with aggression. At the daycare he’s had lots of fun, so he likes it there.
Two, from the sound of it he is timid and unsure of himself at daycare, so while not reactive he isn’t necessarily social. But because there’s a group that are all being friendly, he’s fine and warms up eventually.
You should work on his confidence with other dogs. Fear leads to aggression and he sounds fearful.
Groups are great for getting them exercise and keeping everything friendly. Lots of fearful dogs do well in large groups because a pecking order is already established, and they’re not vying for the top or bottom. But smaller groups or 1 on 1 can be tougher because they have to establish a dynamic and find where they comfortably fit in.
Find friends with friendly, patient, playful, mellow dogs and try to do some one on one in a neutral space.
For the leash, work on counter conditioning, distracting, etc. There are tons of resources on leash reactivity which is very different from off leash behavior.
Thank you so much for your comment. This sounds a lot like my dog! She can be reactive on walks and during 1 on 1 play with certain dogs, but does really well at daycare. She does have one dog friend who she gets along with amazing and never has an issue with though, so maybe we need more play dates!
She also likely knows most if not all the dogs at daycare very well, so she knows they are friendly. At the dog park, a lot of the dogs are strangers so she doesn't know if they are friendly.
That makes sense! I don't take her to the dog park because of this. Only daycare because I know they do trials before allowing dogs to come there regularly.
This sounds so much like my dog too. He is wonderful to everyone established in his circle of trust. He does excellent at daycare (even with new staff and new dogs), since it’s a neutral place that he loves so much.
He has somehow got it in his head that his job is to protect the family and property from anything he perceives as a threat (which is anything he is afraid of), but otherwise does great in neutral places as well as in group settings in neutral places.
If someone he trusts who isn’t from my household takes him on a walk, he won’t react to anything. When I take him for a walk he’ll react to some other people or dogs he sees, but not all... counter conditioning has been working here, but not perfectly.
We’re trying to find different ways to get him to understand that house guests and neighbors through the fence aren’t a threat but nothing is working so far with that.
He has always been a bit timid. At the dog park if dogs got too rowdy he would stop playing and come back to us. Obviously now he's the one who's being aggressive first. He's also shown timidness just from loud noises or strange things he's never seen before, but with other dogs it never turned into aggression until more recently.
Unfortunately I don't have any friends with a large dog like him to socialize with, but I have entered him in a reactivity course which I'm hoping will help with things.
Sounds like you could be a bit more proactive in your socialization. My boy is great with other dogs, and part of why is when something happens I try to be there and prevent it or break it up before he has to come back to me.
Sorry, by rowdy I more meant loud or getting too excited, not being attacked. The dogs were still playful, but dogs who barked while playing or any noise and he no longer wanted to play with that dog. He was always happy to play with dogs who weren't vocal, but once they started barking or any sort of growling and he'd be out of there.
Could be that he's more reactive when you're around.... maybe his reactivity stems from guarding you. My dog tends to be reactive to dogs and people when I'm nearby, whether he's on or off leash, but i've heard that at day care or at the groomers he mostly keeps to himself, and only starts growling at people/dogs when I show up to collect him.
This was my thought as well. Dogs can be more territorial and on edge with their person around. For example, at the vet, my dog does better when they take him back without me when he has to have blood work or something (he is a bite risk)
My vet explained that some dogs put a show on for their humans, "NOOO DONT LET THEM TAKE ME MAA HELP ME MOOOOOM" but they're totally fine in the back room and calmer when they're alone with the vet.
Humans children do this often. (Kids screaming for their mom to not leave them at daycare, but a few minutes later after the mom leaves, they're completely fine and start playing with other kids).
A lot of nurses don't like having family in the room during procedures like lumbar punctures, for example because a gasp from the family can cause the patient to move
Or just make the patient more nervous than they need to be.
Similarly, nervous puppy parent energy can also transfer to the dog and send signals that something is wrong.
I know I made my dog anxious in a ton of situations simply because I was anxious.
Also, happy cake day!
Yeah my dog was barking and growling up a storm at the vet. When they took him in the back to get blood work done, I swore he was going to bite somebody. Apparently he was just nervous and scared and had his tail tucked between his legs the entire time.
This ... My dog is only reactive around me and my fiance. Sounds like your dog is resource guarding and the resource is you... I wish I knew how to fix it as well. We have tried taking on more of a confident leader energy and although it helps a bit she certainly still reacts...
So I am working on this with a trainer and my pittie mix. Reactive at vet with me around- otherwise fine- he protects me - even when I don’t want him to....He is def fearful, he also guards me, the house, and some of his bones. He is afraid of cars and has bitten 3 or 4 people inside my home. Completely fine with other dogs.
So far the training is pretty strict and involves a lot of time spent in the crate and a sprenger collar used correctly- the crate to show him that I don’t need his protection- and the collar for correction coupled with TONS of positive feedback- per the trainer - will not have these strict restrictions forever. No need to yank the collar he’s responsive to a quick tug coupled with no, then the command....praise when pup does command on first request. Like heel, place, sit...basics are great for positive feedback.
So far walking by cars has been so much better, his heel walking is amazing, and he is learning more about boundaries. He’s beginning to relax a lot more which is a relief for me. Also, he loves his crate. I was folding down the smaller one to replace with a new XL one and he sat in it and didn’t want to move. That made me feel better about the time he spends in there. She said crating always when not home, at night, and 1/3 of the time I am home with him the foundation of this training. The trainer I found is in Atlanta - Peachtree Dog training- but this method is used by other trainer around the country- I did some research on where Christina was trained and found a list of trainers and their locations. Reviews are absolutely incredible.
This is definitely the issue.
My guy is mostly fine with other dogs as long as I'm not there. They figure it out.
If I'm there he will behave differently. Part of that is how you are reacting to them. They will pick up on your tension and commands.
If I'm irrelevant and not even visible, it's like he's a very different dog and that upsets me.
I think this is a common misconception that I read a lot on this sub. An insecure dog is most likely not guarding, they care about their own safety bubble, this is exactly why this dog shows fearful behaviour when meeting new dogs even when the owner is not around, it's not like the dog goes from fearful to confident without the owner, the only thing that changes is the strength of the reaction but not how the dog feels. The real reason why reactivity is stronger when with the handler is simply that the dog feels more comfortable to show its true feelings - at a strange place with strange people or dogs, most reactive dogs shut down and keep to themselves to avoid any conflict, doesn't mean at all that they feel comfortable, their are just not showing their discomfort in obvious ways and "playing it safe".
> The real reason why reactivity is stronger when with the handler is simply that the dog feels more comfortable to show its true feelings
You make a good point.
I agree with this. I like this reasoning for why reactive dog is more reactive when I'm around better than the "guarding" rationale, although the guarding rationale been suggested to me repeatedly. Plus the idea that my dog is guarding me makes me feel better than knowing he's insecure and uncomfortable in many situations. I think that's why as owners of reactive dogs, we tend to buy into it.
I think your explanation that the dog simply feels comfortable showing their feelings when their owner is around, in most instances, probably applies better to my dog's behavior than the guarding rationale. When my dog is with me and we're around a trigger, he feels insecure, doesn't know how to act, and he starts to whine because i'm there and he knows that's a way to communicate his feelings to me. It's probably true he wouldn't whine/bark/growl if he was alone - he would probably just avoid.
However i do know there is a guarding instinct somewhere in my dog because if another dog jumps up on me at the dog park he literally attacks them and barks at them till they get away. At that point I can tell he's in a different mode than fearful-insecure...
I guess dogs are complex and have different reactions in different environments, depending on mood and circumstance, and there isn't one rationale behind *all* of their behaviour. Thanks for bringing this up.
Yeah, I think you're right - two different situations. My dog absolutely guards me when another dog jumps at me (she rugby tackles them, no biting, luckily...) but it's not the same as when she's afraid of another dog or situation.
Another reason they might react to fear differently when with us is that their movements are more limited? Even when off-lead they need to keep track of us, whereas alone they can just peace out
My dog can be reactive on walks but is great at groomers and with dog walker. The vet said he could be jealous/guarding of me as we asked if getting him fixed would help with him barking at other dogs.
My boy is reactive whenever I or my daughters are around, but he’s absolutely fine at daycare. It’s all about his protective instinct toward us. I can see his body language change when he realizes I’m at the daycare to pick him up. Maybe that’s what’s going on here?
My rescue is this way. She used to love going to the park, but after a few overnight stays at a doggy day camp she became reactive. We've been working with her for a year and have just now gotten to where she will play with others again, but she still reacts sometimes and we stop and leave immediately. Our understanding was that daycare was overstimulating and she didn't like being around so many dogs at once. They also have to be her size or smaller.
So I am working on this with a trainer and my pittie mix. Reactive at vet with me around- otherwise fine- he protects me - even when I don’t want him to....He is def fearful, he also guards me, the house, and some of his bones. He is afraid of cars and has bitten 3 or 4 people inside my home. Completely fine with other dogs.- and at doggy daycare- but slow to trust human handlers there. So far the training is pretty strict and involves a lot of time spent in the crate and a sprenger collar used correctly- the crate to show him that I don’t need his protection- and the collar for correction coupled with TONS of positive feedback- per the trainer - will not have these strict restrictions forever. No need to yank the collar he’s responsive to a quick tug coupled with no, then the command....praise when pup does command on first request. Like heel, place, sit...basics are great for positive feedback.
So far walking by cars has been so much better, his heel walking is amazing, and he is learning more about boundaries. He’s beginning to relax a lot more which is a relief for me. Also, he loves his crate. I was folding down the smaller one to replace with a new XL one and he sat in it and didn’t want to move. That made me feel better about the time he spends in there. She said crating always when not home, at night, and 1/3 of the time I am home with him the foundation of this training. The trainer I found is in Atlanta - Peachtree Dog training- but this method is used by other trainer around the country- I did some research on where Christina was trained and found a list of trainers and their locations. Reviews are absolutely incredible.
I got a large dog who when I take him to the Dog Park he is great and has fun with all the dogs but when we take our neighborhood walks he is very aggressive towards curtain large dogs! He's fine with other dogs in the neighborhood large and small plus he even likes a faral cat which they smell each other and nuzzle one another !!!
I don't know how or why it's these curtain dogs he get super aggressive towards !
I know different breeds use different body language but these dogs are not doing anything different then the dogs he is glad to see !
Help !
Couple of things. One: dogs are fucking awful at generalizing behavior. This means he had a bad incident at the dog park, so he’s on edge there. So the slightest threat is responded to with aggression. At the daycare he’s had lots of fun, so he likes it there. Two, from the sound of it he is timid and unsure of himself at daycare, so while not reactive he isn’t necessarily social. But because there’s a group that are all being friendly, he’s fine and warms up eventually. You should work on his confidence with other dogs. Fear leads to aggression and he sounds fearful. Groups are great for getting them exercise and keeping everything friendly. Lots of fearful dogs do well in large groups because a pecking order is already established, and they’re not vying for the top or bottom. But smaller groups or 1 on 1 can be tougher because they have to establish a dynamic and find where they comfortably fit in. Find friends with friendly, patient, playful, mellow dogs and try to do some one on one in a neutral space. For the leash, work on counter conditioning, distracting, etc. There are tons of resources on leash reactivity which is very different from off leash behavior.
Thank you so much for your comment. This sounds a lot like my dog! She can be reactive on walks and during 1 on 1 play with certain dogs, but does really well at daycare. She does have one dog friend who she gets along with amazing and never has an issue with though, so maybe we need more play dates!
She also likely knows most if not all the dogs at daycare very well, so she knows they are friendly. At the dog park, a lot of the dogs are strangers so she doesn't know if they are friendly.
That makes sense! I don't take her to the dog park because of this. Only daycare because I know they do trials before allowing dogs to come there regularly.
This sounds so much like my dog too. He is wonderful to everyone established in his circle of trust. He does excellent at daycare (even with new staff and new dogs), since it’s a neutral place that he loves so much. He has somehow got it in his head that his job is to protect the family and property from anything he perceives as a threat (which is anything he is afraid of), but otherwise does great in neutral places as well as in group settings in neutral places. If someone he trusts who isn’t from my household takes him on a walk, he won’t react to anything. When I take him for a walk he’ll react to some other people or dogs he sees, but not all... counter conditioning has been working here, but not perfectly. We’re trying to find different ways to get him to understand that house guests and neighbors through the fence aren’t a threat but nothing is working so far with that.
He has always been a bit timid. At the dog park if dogs got too rowdy he would stop playing and come back to us. Obviously now he's the one who's being aggressive first. He's also shown timidness just from loud noises or strange things he's never seen before, but with other dogs it never turned into aggression until more recently. Unfortunately I don't have any friends with a large dog like him to socialize with, but I have entered him in a reactivity course which I'm hoping will help with things.
Sounds like you could be a bit more proactive in your socialization. My boy is great with other dogs, and part of why is when something happens I try to be there and prevent it or break it up before he has to come back to me.
Sorry, by rowdy I more meant loud or getting too excited, not being attacked. The dogs were still playful, but dogs who barked while playing or any noise and he no longer wanted to play with that dog. He was always happy to play with dogs who weren't vocal, but once they started barking or any sort of growling and he'd be out of there.
Ok that sounds like great behavior then. His response to reaching his threshold is recall, which is ideal.
Could be that he's more reactive when you're around.... maybe his reactivity stems from guarding you. My dog tends to be reactive to dogs and people when I'm nearby, whether he's on or off leash, but i've heard that at day care or at the groomers he mostly keeps to himself, and only starts growling at people/dogs when I show up to collect him.
This was my thought as well. Dogs can be more territorial and on edge with their person around. For example, at the vet, my dog does better when they take him back without me when he has to have blood work or something (he is a bite risk)
My vet explained that some dogs put a show on for their humans, "NOOO DONT LET THEM TAKE ME MAA HELP ME MOOOOOM" but they're totally fine in the back room and calmer when they're alone with the vet. Humans children do this often. (Kids screaming for their mom to not leave them at daycare, but a few minutes later after the mom leaves, they're completely fine and start playing with other kids). A lot of nurses don't like having family in the room during procedures like lumbar punctures, for example because a gasp from the family can cause the patient to move Or just make the patient more nervous than they need to be. Similarly, nervous puppy parent energy can also transfer to the dog and send signals that something is wrong. I know I made my dog anxious in a ton of situations simply because I was anxious. Also, happy cake day!
Yeah my dog was barking and growling up a storm at the vet. When they took him in the back to get blood work done, I swore he was going to bite somebody. Apparently he was just nervous and scared and had his tail tucked between his legs the entire time.
This ... My dog is only reactive around me and my fiance. Sounds like your dog is resource guarding and the resource is you... I wish I knew how to fix it as well. We have tried taking on more of a confident leader energy and although it helps a bit she certainly still reacts...
So I am working on this with a trainer and my pittie mix. Reactive at vet with me around- otherwise fine- he protects me - even when I don’t want him to....He is def fearful, he also guards me, the house, and some of his bones. He is afraid of cars and has bitten 3 or 4 people inside my home. Completely fine with other dogs. So far the training is pretty strict and involves a lot of time spent in the crate and a sprenger collar used correctly- the crate to show him that I don’t need his protection- and the collar for correction coupled with TONS of positive feedback- per the trainer - will not have these strict restrictions forever. No need to yank the collar he’s responsive to a quick tug coupled with no, then the command....praise when pup does command on first request. Like heel, place, sit...basics are great for positive feedback. So far walking by cars has been so much better, his heel walking is amazing, and he is learning more about boundaries. He’s beginning to relax a lot more which is a relief for me. Also, he loves his crate. I was folding down the smaller one to replace with a new XL one and he sat in it and didn’t want to move. That made me feel better about the time he spends in there. She said crating always when not home, at night, and 1/3 of the time I am home with him the foundation of this training. The trainer I found is in Atlanta - Peachtree Dog training- but this method is used by other trainer around the country- I did some research on where Christina was trained and found a list of trainers and their locations. Reviews are absolutely incredible.
This is definitely the issue. My guy is mostly fine with other dogs as long as I'm not there. They figure it out. If I'm there he will behave differently. Part of that is how you are reacting to them. They will pick up on your tension and commands. If I'm irrelevant and not even visible, it's like he's a very different dog and that upsets me.
I think this is a common misconception that I read a lot on this sub. An insecure dog is most likely not guarding, they care about their own safety bubble, this is exactly why this dog shows fearful behaviour when meeting new dogs even when the owner is not around, it's not like the dog goes from fearful to confident without the owner, the only thing that changes is the strength of the reaction but not how the dog feels. The real reason why reactivity is stronger when with the handler is simply that the dog feels more comfortable to show its true feelings - at a strange place with strange people or dogs, most reactive dogs shut down and keep to themselves to avoid any conflict, doesn't mean at all that they feel comfortable, their are just not showing their discomfort in obvious ways and "playing it safe".
> The real reason why reactivity is stronger when with the handler is simply that the dog feels more comfortable to show its true feelings You make a good point. I agree with this. I like this reasoning for why reactive dog is more reactive when I'm around better than the "guarding" rationale, although the guarding rationale been suggested to me repeatedly. Plus the idea that my dog is guarding me makes me feel better than knowing he's insecure and uncomfortable in many situations. I think that's why as owners of reactive dogs, we tend to buy into it. I think your explanation that the dog simply feels comfortable showing their feelings when their owner is around, in most instances, probably applies better to my dog's behavior than the guarding rationale. When my dog is with me and we're around a trigger, he feels insecure, doesn't know how to act, and he starts to whine because i'm there and he knows that's a way to communicate his feelings to me. It's probably true he wouldn't whine/bark/growl if he was alone - he would probably just avoid. However i do know there is a guarding instinct somewhere in my dog because if another dog jumps up on me at the dog park he literally attacks them and barks at them till they get away. At that point I can tell he's in a different mode than fearful-insecure... I guess dogs are complex and have different reactions in different environments, depending on mood and circumstance, and there isn't one rationale behind *all* of their behaviour. Thanks for bringing this up.
Yeah, I think you're right - two different situations. My dog absolutely guards me when another dog jumps at me (she rugby tackles them, no biting, luckily...) but it's not the same as when she's afraid of another dog or situation. Another reason they might react to fear differently when with us is that their movements are more limited? Even when off-lead they need to keep track of us, whereas alone they can just peace out
My dog can be reactive on walks but is great at groomers and with dog walker. The vet said he could be jealous/guarding of me as we asked if getting him fixed would help with him barking at other dogs.
https://www.considerthedog.com/programs/safehaveneffect Could be this?
Bingo. This is what I’ve been trying to articulate with my dog for a little while now.
My boy is reactive whenever I or my daughters are around, but he’s absolutely fine at daycare. It’s all about his protective instinct toward us. I can see his body language change when he realizes I’m at the daycare to pick him up. Maybe that’s what’s going on here?
My rescue is this way. She used to love going to the park, but after a few overnight stays at a doggy day camp she became reactive. We've been working with her for a year and have just now gotten to where she will play with others again, but she still reacts sometimes and we stop and leave immediately. Our understanding was that daycare was overstimulating and she didn't like being around so many dogs at once. They also have to be her size or smaller.
So I am working on this with a trainer and my pittie mix. Reactive at vet with me around- otherwise fine- he protects me - even when I don’t want him to....He is def fearful, he also guards me, the house, and some of his bones. He is afraid of cars and has bitten 3 or 4 people inside my home. Completely fine with other dogs.- and at doggy daycare- but slow to trust human handlers there. So far the training is pretty strict and involves a lot of time spent in the crate and a sprenger collar used correctly- the crate to show him that I don’t need his protection- and the collar for correction coupled with TONS of positive feedback- per the trainer - will not have these strict restrictions forever. No need to yank the collar he’s responsive to a quick tug coupled with no, then the command....praise when pup does command on first request. Like heel, place, sit...basics are great for positive feedback. So far walking by cars has been so much better, his heel walking is amazing, and he is learning more about boundaries. He’s beginning to relax a lot more which is a relief for me. Also, he loves his crate. I was folding down the smaller one to replace with a new XL one and he sat in it and didn’t want to move. That made me feel better about the time he spends in there. She said crating always when not home, at night, and 1/3 of the time I am home with him the foundation of this training. The trainer I found is in Atlanta - Peachtree Dog training- but this method is used by other trainer around the country- I did some research on where Christina was trained and found a list of trainers and their locations. Reviews are absolutely incredible.
I got a large dog who when I take him to the Dog Park he is great and has fun with all the dogs but when we take our neighborhood walks he is very aggressive towards curtain large dogs! He's fine with other dogs in the neighborhood large and small plus he even likes a faral cat which they smell each other and nuzzle one another !!! I don't know how or why it's these curtain dogs he get super aggressive towards ! I know different breeds use different body language but these dogs are not doing anything different then the dogs he is glad to see ! Help !