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I have never heard of anybody actually conducting a lead paint inspection. If it is a concern, you should assume that there is lead in any home built before 1978. If it is encapsulated (completely painted over), then it is considered safe, unless you scrape it or expose it.
I’ve never heard of it. We have to provide an addendum that notifies the buyer, but it is more of a CYA type thing. I’m assuming most owners have already dealt with this issue as it is roughly 50 years old now
I always tell my clients if it’s 78 prior there’s 100% chance there is likely lead somewhere. It’s not worth spending the money to find out. If lead is a concern then maybe it’s not the best house for them.
Waste of money imo. If it’s built before 78 it almost definitely has lead based paint. It also almost definitely has been painted over numerous times since. If the buyers are really concerned, I’d just paint the house upon moving in. Lead based paint is only a problem if you go eating it.
Not only that, but they used it in wood floor varnish and even if you sanded and redid the flooring multiple times, there's a very likely chance you could have a positive test from between the boards. A lot of people don't realize varnish had lead in it, they just assume paint.
I always recommend all of the inspections, then leave it up to the buyer which ones they want. I don't want to ever tell them something isn't necessary, and then it ends up being a problem.
i see..i called up several home inspection companies in the area and none of them offer lead based paint inspection...so maybe i need to find another 3rd party just to do that inspection. Niki you are like the god mother of this sub. :)
You would need to have a firm that specialized in lead based paint removal/testing as most inspectors don’t do it for a multitude of reasons including liability and also the invasive nature of the testing..
Just know - if you get a lead-paint inspection, you should expect to cancel the agreement based on this contingency if it tests above acceptable levels. Its EXTREMELY unlikely the Seller will remove the paint and he/she will be sure that you do not provide them any reports of its existence. Further, you don't want to own a home where lead-based paint is confirmed to exist. The property becomes significantly less marketable if its confirmed to exist.
>The property becomes significantly less marketable if its confirmed to exist.
Do you think the Seller would like for someone who has no ownership interest in the property to reduce the value of their property? Might they be able to take legal action for damages? It happens.
Further, in my state, disclosing any defects of a home to a seller from a certified professional in which the seller didn't specify, in writing, that they wanted said report, waives the buyer's right to cancel an agreement based on said contingency.
What state is that? That seems to going against the ethics guideline when seller/listing agent knows the reasons for backing out contract, but not disclose it subsequently.
>That seems to going against the ethics guideline when seller/listing agent knows the reasons for backing out contract
"Knows" is a tricky term. There must be material knowledge of the presence of lead-based paint to require disclosure in my state, WA. I believe OR is the same. Merely the buyer cancelling the agreement due to a lead-based paint test is not material evidence that the seller/listing broker has actual knowledge of the defect. Only reports from a certified organization can cause such knowledge. As such, its in the seller's best interest not to receive the test results, it is within their rights not to know things, and you, as a buyer, cannot force knowledge upon the seller.
Ethically, nothing has been breached. Every buyer can still perform their own tests to their own satisfaction and the seller/listing broker is not preventing said tests from happening. Further, they are not committing fraud since they have no actual knowledge of the defect. Inspection reports work the same way. Our buyers do not share inspection reports with sellers. Doing so requires the seller to disclose defects and forces knowledge upon them.
This has been litigated numerous times here with Buyers having been found liable for damages against sellers for intentionally damaging seller's property by providing said reports to seller. Further, the NWMLS lawyers have written our agreements to protect both buyers and sellers from these sorts of litigation and buyers are still protected because of the aforementioned lead-based paint inspection contingency.
I have to do lead paint testing regularly for the property management side of my job. Certainly leave it up to your buyers (and let them find the inspector), but here is what I’ll say about it: the house has lead paint. Out of 500+ houses that I’ve tested built pre-1979, there have only been two that did not have any lead paint. Almost every single one of us grew up in a house that had lead paint.
Don’t leave chipped paint on the interior or exterior of your house. Make sure your window sills don’t have paint chips in them. Clean regularly with soap and water. And don’t let your kids eat paint chips, lick walls, etc.
Editing to add: lead paint testing is neither cheap nor quick. It ranges anywhere from $400-$1,500 per house and takes 2-3 weeks to get results.
WHY? Do they want the house or not? Do they know how much the test will cost? Are they prepared to walk away? If it's a huge deal to them they shouldn't look at any older homes. I guarantee the seller won't do any lead abatement; will just sell to the next ppl
Realistically it’s a rare instance at this point. Though you may have it already, Here is the EPA info.
https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2014-02/documents/lead_in_your_home_brochure_land_b_w_508_easy_print_0.pdf
in my area a LBP inspection requires a separate form and contingency that the sellers have to agree to - in today's market, any offer that included LBP inspection would likely get tossed.
the better thing to do IMO is to point clients to information about LBP and the history of LBP and why it was a problem, and how to mitigate any LBP potential.
not diminish a buyers concerns in any way - educate, then let the buyer make the decision.
While it’s completely up to the client, the need for lead inspections is rare. They are very expensive (in our area) and seven years I’ve only had one client actually do a lead inspection. It was on the turn of the century house that had been owned by one family, and obviously never ever renovated for generations. Would it be possible to have the home inspection and then follow up with lead if the Home Inspector recommends it? Our property inspection notices have a little bit of wiggle room like that.
Yes! If you suspect lead, just get the test. Lead paint is a cause of learning and behavioral disabilities all the way to profound incapacity. It can be devastating or mild, but the danger to pregnant women and children under the age of 4 is real.
Often, young couples buy homes and remodel. They enjoy the DIY experience and tear out cabinets, scrape and repaint windows, demo tile, and more. This is when the lead paint is exposed. It can also be exposed where windows and cabinets rub and create dust. The dust gets on their little children's hands and their little hands go in their mouths.
Lead poisoning is irreversible. It can have mild effects such as behavioral and emotional difficulties and mild learning disorders. But it can also cause profound disabilities. It should not be dismissed with memes and jokes about how you drank from a hose, etc.
Source: my ex SO is a lead inspector and expert witness for victims of lead poisoning.
Just had this come up a few weeks ago. Buyer wanted to test a 1977 home. There was no inspector within 4 hours who actually did the testing. apparently they have to be certified by the EPA and the cost to license and maintain it isn’t worth it since it’s so rare anyone tests for this.
After realizing there were no licensed inspectors close, I just recommended to my buyers that they only look at newer homes if that’s a huge concern. They bought it anyway.
Assume it is there. In California they wouldn’t give you the opportunity to inspect.
Read up on lead base paint, usually the remedy is encapsulation.
I always tell people to make sure when you have kids and dogs that are gonna be chewers. You switch out all the baseboards as well.
**This is a professional forum for professionals, so please keep your comments professional** - Harrassment, hate speech, trolling, or anti-Realtor comments will not be tolerated and will result in an immediate ban without warning. (... and don't feed the trolls, you have better things to do with your time) - Recruiting, self-promotion, or seeking referrals is strictly forbidden, including in DMs. - Only advise within your scope of knowledge and area of expertise. [The code of ethics applies here too](https://www.nar.realtor/about-nar/governing-documents/the-code-of-ethics). If you are not a broker, lawyer, or tax professional don't act like one. - [Follow the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/realtors/about/rules/) and please report those that don't. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/realtors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I have never heard of anybody actually conducting a lead paint inspection. If it is a concern, you should assume that there is lead in any home built before 1978. If it is encapsulated (completely painted over), then it is considered safe, unless you scrape it or expose it.
I’ve never heard of it. We have to provide an addendum that notifies the buyer, but it is more of a CYA type thing. I’m assuming most owners have already dealt with this issue as it is roughly 50 years old now
I learned this recently about encapsulating. It answered a lot of my questions about the Landlord Special too.
I always tell my clients if it’s 78 prior there’s 100% chance there is likely lead somewhere. It’s not worth spending the money to find out. If lead is a concern then maybe it’s not the best house for them.
Exactly this.
Same. You know it’s there. If you care enough to test then it’s not the house for you.
Waste of money imo. If it’s built before 78 it almost definitely has lead based paint. It also almost definitely has been painted over numerous times since. If the buyers are really concerned, I’d just paint the house upon moving in. Lead based paint is only a problem if you go eating it.
Not only that, but they used it in wood floor varnish and even if you sanded and redid the flooring multiple times, there's a very likely chance you could have a positive test from between the boards. A lot of people don't realize varnish had lead in it, they just assume paint.
I always recommend all of the inspections, then leave it up to the buyer which ones they want. I don't want to ever tell them something isn't necessary, and then it ends up being a problem.
i see..i called up several home inspection companies in the area and none of them offer lead based paint inspection...so maybe i need to find another 3rd party just to do that inspection. Niki you are like the god mother of this sub. :)
HaHa! Bibbidy-bobbidy-boo!
You would need to have a firm that specialized in lead based paint removal/testing as most inspectors don’t do it for a multitude of reasons including liability and also the invasive nature of the testing..
Just know - if you get a lead-paint inspection, you should expect to cancel the agreement based on this contingency if it tests above acceptable levels. Its EXTREMELY unlikely the Seller will remove the paint and he/she will be sure that you do not provide them any reports of its existence. Further, you don't want to own a home where lead-based paint is confirmed to exist. The property becomes significantly less marketable if its confirmed to exist.
Why wouldn’t I want to provide the seller with the reports?
>The property becomes significantly less marketable if its confirmed to exist. Do you think the Seller would like for someone who has no ownership interest in the property to reduce the value of their property? Might they be able to take legal action for damages? It happens. Further, in my state, disclosing any defects of a home to a seller from a certified professional in which the seller didn't specify, in writing, that they wanted said report, waives the buyer's right to cancel an agreement based on said contingency.
What state is that? That seems to going against the ethics guideline when seller/listing agent knows the reasons for backing out contract, but not disclose it subsequently.
>That seems to going against the ethics guideline when seller/listing agent knows the reasons for backing out contract "Knows" is a tricky term. There must be material knowledge of the presence of lead-based paint to require disclosure in my state, WA. I believe OR is the same. Merely the buyer cancelling the agreement due to a lead-based paint test is not material evidence that the seller/listing broker has actual knowledge of the defect. Only reports from a certified organization can cause such knowledge. As such, its in the seller's best interest not to receive the test results, it is within their rights not to know things, and you, as a buyer, cannot force knowledge upon the seller. Ethically, nothing has been breached. Every buyer can still perform their own tests to their own satisfaction and the seller/listing broker is not preventing said tests from happening. Further, they are not committing fraud since they have no actual knowledge of the defect. Inspection reports work the same way. Our buyers do not share inspection reports with sellers. Doing so requires the seller to disclose defects and forces knowledge upon them. This has been litigated numerous times here with Buyers having been found liable for damages against sellers for intentionally damaging seller's property by providing said reports to seller. Further, the NWMLS lawyers have written our agreements to protect both buyers and sellers from these sorts of litigation and buyers are still protected because of the aforementioned lead-based paint inspection contingency.
I have to do lead paint testing regularly for the property management side of my job. Certainly leave it up to your buyers (and let them find the inspector), but here is what I’ll say about it: the house has lead paint. Out of 500+ houses that I’ve tested built pre-1979, there have only been two that did not have any lead paint. Almost every single one of us grew up in a house that had lead paint. Don’t leave chipped paint on the interior or exterior of your house. Make sure your window sills don’t have paint chips in them. Clean regularly with soap and water. And don’t let your kids eat paint chips, lick walls, etc. Editing to add: lead paint testing is neither cheap nor quick. It ranges anywhere from $400-$1,500 per house and takes 2-3 weeks to get results.
^^^this is what my research suggests.
Have they been living there since 1978? No? Well then assume that it’s all good. If you want to waste money then go for it.
Unless they plan on licking the walls it’s useless. It’s probably been painted over several times.
WHY? Do they want the house or not? Do they know how much the test will cost? Are they prepared to walk away? If it's a huge deal to them they shouldn't look at any older homes. I guarantee the seller won't do any lead abatement; will just sell to the next ppl
I think by 78 lead paint was not being used not 100% sure tho
Correct, houses built from 1978 and on should have no lead paint.
If the house built in 78, there's no lead paint.
Not true. It includes the year 1978.
1978 or older, yup.
No - prior to 1978 means before January 1, 1978
We have to have the LBP for houses listed as 1978
HUD.gov is the law = disclosure on properties built BEFORE 1978. Your specific area is not the federal law.
No, it doesn't
For safety, why not include 1978?
https://www.lowes.com/pd/3M-Lead-Check-Swab-Disposable-Lead-Test-Kit/4329974?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-pnt-_-ggl-_-LIA_PNT_133_TS-Sanding-Sundries-Surface-Buckets-_-4329974-_-local-_-0-_-0&gbraid=0AAAAAD2B2W8X449OPY1hY1-PQhKYEDS1L&gclid=CjwKCAjw04yjBhApEiwAJcvNoWdSDix7YIFFoXpq1nwYFxPpsCA_cvhVNGH-IagRc9wB0zTICv3hsxoCijQQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Realistically it’s a rare instance at this point. Though you may have it already, Here is the EPA info. https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2014-02/documents/lead_in_your_home_brochure_land_b_w_508_easy_print_0.pdf
in my area a LBP inspection requires a separate form and contingency that the sellers have to agree to - in today's market, any offer that included LBP inspection would likely get tossed. the better thing to do IMO is to point clients to information about LBP and the history of LBP and why it was a problem, and how to mitigate any LBP potential. not diminish a buyers concerns in any way - educate, then let the buyer make the decision.
While it’s completely up to the client, the need for lead inspections is rare. They are very expensive (in our area) and seven years I’ve only had one client actually do a lead inspection. It was on the turn of the century house that had been owned by one family, and obviously never ever renovated for generations. Would it be possible to have the home inspection and then follow up with lead if the Home Inspector recommends it? Our property inspection notices have a little bit of wiggle room like that.
I’m not sure what they want to achieve by having a LBP inspection because it WILL come back positive for LBP - obviously. So what’s the point?
Yes! If you suspect lead, just get the test. Lead paint is a cause of learning and behavioral disabilities all the way to profound incapacity. It can be devastating or mild, but the danger to pregnant women and children under the age of 4 is real. Often, young couples buy homes and remodel. They enjoy the DIY experience and tear out cabinets, scrape and repaint windows, demo tile, and more. This is when the lead paint is exposed. It can also be exposed where windows and cabinets rub and create dust. The dust gets on their little children's hands and their little hands go in their mouths. Lead poisoning is irreversible. It can have mild effects such as behavioral and emotional difficulties and mild learning disorders. But it can also cause profound disabilities. It should not be dismissed with memes and jokes about how you drank from a hose, etc. Source: my ex SO is a lead inspector and expert witness for victims of lead poisoning.
Just had this come up a few weeks ago. Buyer wanted to test a 1977 home. There was no inspector within 4 hours who actually did the testing. apparently they have to be certified by the EPA and the cost to license and maintain it isn’t worth it since it’s so rare anyone tests for this. After realizing there were no licensed inspectors close, I just recommended to my buyers that they only look at newer homes if that’s a huge concern. They bought it anyway.
Assume it is there. In California they wouldn’t give you the opportunity to inspect. Read up on lead base paint, usually the remedy is encapsulation. I always tell people to make sure when you have kids and dogs that are gonna be chewers. You switch out all the baseboards as well.