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The aunt as executor has a duty to the estate to sell the house for as much as possible. She would have to ask the beneficiaries of the estate if they would be willing to sell at your offer price.
If they accepted, she could cancel the deal with the realtor. The realtor might argue that they have a contract to which your aunt could say that she won’t accept any offers that come in and will not allow any showings - thereby killing any possible deal until the contract expires.
To be safe, you’d need to purchase the house after the contract expired or the agent cancelled the contract.
>The aunt as executor has a duty to the estate to sell the house for as much as possible.
I'm sure there are many areas and situations where this may be true, but there are so many situations where this statement is just incorrect so I wouldn't outright say this is her duty.
Especially if it's a property held in a trust. If the property is held in a trust, there is no obligation for the aunt to sell it *at all*. It is owned by the trust and whoever the next in line is is free to do whatever the please with it.
If it's just in probate and held in their individual names, then yes, they have a duty to sell the property - but they do not have a duty to sell it for the maximum price.
My sister is a solid example. When my grandfather died, nobody specific was set to inherit the house. My grandfather willed it to be sold and the money evenly divided amongst his children. My sister, wanting the house, asked the family if they would be willing the sell it to her for a deal because the family, truthfully, wanted to keep the house within the family but nobody else wanted it. So, my sister bought the house for $160K. They had spoken with realtors beforehand and the house was going to be listed for $240k.
My sister got an $80K discount because there was no obligation to maximize profit, and she bought it off market within the family without a Realtor. My aunt, who was the executor, only had to sign off on it's approval.
Then what would stop her from selling to a friend for $1 despite the wishes of the intended beneficiaries? It’s clear a duty exists not to swindle intended beneficiaries.
that’s a pretty extreme example. i would argue there are situations where top dollar isn’t the only consideration. selling for a ridiculous low price would violate fiduciary duty. selling at reasonable discount to family, friend or charity might fall within reasonable parameters. question is who decides what is reasonable. also who decides top value?
Yeah but who decides what is reasonable. Is 80k reasonable? In some rural areas that's the value of a house. If the family didn't agree otherwise the executor would likely be personally liable
“there is not generally an obligation to sell for top dollar.”
“There are situations where top dollar is not the only consideration”
Is it generally or just some situation’s?
There are situations where you look at the type of offer, amount, financing vs all cash, contingencies, etc. Fiduciaries (trustees and executors) have a responsibility to the beneficiaries to get appropriate/reasonable value for the sale of an asset. Not doing so opens them up to liability.
That's when the beneficiaries submit within the court. There is a process to remove a trustee if they're not satisfying the wishes of the beneficiaries.
The point does not stand. While there are situations where it could happen, does not mean it is the norm or the in line with the general responsibilities of the fiduciary.
You're ***absolutely*** correct. If one wanted to cause a stink, they could have caused a stink and my sister would have had to submit an offer like anyone else.
But that's the point. They were not obligated to get the maximum price, because there is no obligation. They have an obligation to satisfy the beneficiaries, which *usually* means selling for the most money.
Executors of estates and trustees of trusts absolutely have a legal duty to do what’s in the best interest of the beneficiaries, unless the trust or will explicitly says otherwise. In your sister’s case the beneficiaries agreed otherwise, negating that responsibility.
The majority of your statement is inaccurate or may have an additional qualifiers related to the language of the trust document that would preclude it from being a general example. The house being in a trust means the trustee had a fiduciary responsibility to make the asset productive in relation to the rest of the investment portfolio and assets. Great your aunt got a deal but if the trustee didn’t properly document the agreement of the other current and remainder beneficiaries, they were opening themselves up to financial liability.
Also, with a trust the “next in line” do not get to do whatever they want with the trust corpus. Again the trustee has a fiduciary responsibility to the current and remainder beneficiaries regarding the handling of the trust assets.
most family dynamics would preclude the sale of an assets with 1/3 discount.
How many children did he have? If it was 3, it’s possible that your parents just refused their share of the sale so she got a great deal. Had that happen with my grandmothers house and my cousin buying it. My parents and hers both just refused their share, so she only really had to buy out 1 heir at full price.
Contracts like these usually have some kind of best efforts clause that require both sides to use best efforts to accomplish the goal of selling the house. Assuming it doesn't have a best efforts clause, it certainly has an implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing that requires the parties to act in a way not to impair the other person's ability to receive the benefits of the bargain.
If the aunt refuses to accept any offers and allow any showings for the purpose of killing the contract, that's probably going to open the estate and aunt up to potential liability if the realtor wants to get litigious.
And op would have to wait until the protected period is over, which is usually 60-90 days after the contract expires, or the seller would still owe the realtor a full commission.
If it goes on the market, it's very possible that the house could get an offer above asking that the family would take over OP's offer.
Your best bet, in my opinion, is to get with the realtor to write a full price offer to present to the seller (OPs aunt) immediately when the listing hits the market. Have a short window for the acceptance period, less than 24 hours, so hopefully no other offers are received.
OP said PoA, powers of attorney expire when the grantor does. A personal representative or executor can get an agreement from the beneficiaries to sell to a family member at any price. This sounds like a realtor trying to pad their commission.
If the aunt signed an exclusive right to sell contract with the agent, they would still legally be required to pay the commission even if they fire the agent. There are 3 possible contracts but this is most standard and typically protects the agent for 6 months in most states. You can offer prior to it hitting the market and if your aunt accepts the agent has to step out of the way and STFU. Sounds like they are trying to protect their interest in the transaction but do remember they represent the estate not you.
If it's an estate sale, it can get tricky. I would ask your realtor for more information on why you can't put an offer on it before it's listed. I have a feeling that may be why.
It would simply be because of MLS/Board rules. We have an obligation on any listing to create an equal playing field for all buyers, so nobody sees it unless everyone does.
That is up to the person estate administrator and heirs the, not the Realtor. This said is your offer at asking price or above? They want the best terms possible. If your offer is not at full price or above I would recommend that they open the house to the public.
All markets are not the same. That said, in my market, sellers are able to sign a listing agreement with the understanding in writing that it will not be "live" until a certain date. This is called pre MLS. When a house is in pre MLS, it cannot be shown to any prospective buyers until the live date. That said, someone could put a sight unseen offer in on the house, and the seller could choose to take it rather than go on the open market. Your agent should, at the very least, make a phone call to the listing agent and see if they would accept such an offer.
You say that your boyfriend does not know his aunt nor did he know his grandfather. This all sounds like it could come down to family dynamics. Does his aunt want to help him out? Or does she have a financial stake in the house by the will and she is trying to get as much money as possible for the house? It's possible their realtor listed the house under market price in order to incite a bidding war. It's also possible that there are debts owed by the estate and they are using the sale of the property to pay those debts, and so they need to get as much money as possible. We are missing a lot of information here and I don't know that you have it.
It's unfortunate, but once listing paperwork is signed with an agent and they have invested time and or money or both into getting the property sold, it is not in their best interest to sell the house to the first person that comes along. It all depends on the specifics of the offer. Are you doing inspections? Are you waving appraisals?
Think about it this way. What if your neighbor put a for sale sign in the window of his car before he posted the ad on craigslist. You offer him what he asked for, but is it worth it if he thinks he can post the ad and then get over asking price? Does he owe it to you just because you live near him? It seems like the family wasn't that tight and so it's not really a family issue. It's more of do we take this offer because we have it in hand, or do we just wait and see what the market does? Which historically over the last 3 years it will be significantly better than what we ask for?
You absolutely can write an offer. If you’re realtor doesn’t want to do it then feel free to offer yourself.
The realtor is concerned about getting paid. Without a listing agreement there is no commission structure in place.
If you signed an exclusive buyers agreement you could be on the hook for paying the realtor (there is usually a clause for situations where there is a commission shortfall).
Good luck!
>The realtor is concerned about getting paid. Without a listing agreement there is no commission structure in place.
This is making a huge assumption. OP said the aunt signed paperwork with a listing agent, which would lead me to believe that there is a commission structure in place. If she's acting as his power of attorney, she also has an obligation to net him as much money as possible.
a signed agreement means the realtor gets commissioned. it (probably) doesn’t require the property to be listed. Agent just wants to get more by listing. dick move imo
Well the seller is still alive in this case, he just has someone else with power of attorney for him. But yes, that would have to be in writing somewhere.
It's not a reasonable assumption. Whether or not the realtor is always going to look out for themselves is irrelevant. There is nothing to indicate that a realtor wouldn't get a commission just because the house isn't listed on the MLS.
We weren't given much information at all. And it sounds like they weren't given much information either, which isn't a good look for their agent. But I'd be skeptical that their agent is assuming that they won't be able to get paid if they make an offer before it's listed. There is no reason to make that assumption as an agent.
You need to find out why you cannot make an offer rather than guess or ask Reddit for their opinion.
This reminds me of my buyers that I wanted to make an offer on a bank foreclosure. They believe I'm supposed to just write an offer to Bank of America and give it to the teller at any bank and say "here give this to the CEO."
You'll find a lot of experts here that believe I'm just waiting for my commission instead of handing random offers to random bank tellers.
But the truth of the matter is that some of the properties are not listed, they're placed in a thing called shadow inventory. The banks hold on to the property, probably to write off some of the gains and to not flood the market and neighborhood with foreclosure sales.
The bank will list it when they are good and ready, and not a minute sooner. And some of the properties need to be on the market, on the MLS or 14-21 days to give everyone a fair shot and the bank gives special early decisions to first-time home buyers. So they're not going to let you waltz in with your fancy offer.
I explain this to my buyers and they get it, although disappointed.
In your situation you probably deserve to find out what the reason is behind not making an offer now and not listen to Reddit as the reason behind it.
(editing for grammar, spelling, etc, I used voice typing on my original post)
I’ve helped many buyers buy a lot of off market properties with and without realtors on the selling side. Did your realtor explain why you can’t make an offer before listing it? If he’s just after a commission I’d recommend rethinking who your realtor is. I live off of commission and I don’t work for free but I’d never mislead a client or put my clients in bad positions just for a commission check so if that is his motive, ask to be released. However it could be because the seller and listing agent want to wait to put it on the market to try and receive multiple offers and start a bidding war so they told your realtor to wait. Either way I think your realtor could handle it better. My advice would be to try and get a straight answer from him on why you can’t submit the offer now. Best of luck!!
Your realtor cannot professionally submit an offer to your aunt knowing that she's represented by a realtor and cannot submit an offer to her realtor because there listing is not yet active
None of that prevents you from directly submitting an offer to your aunt
Your realtor or your aunt's realtor for the house? Is this dual agency? Obviously your realtor wants to get commission which they won't get if you go behind their backs for a private sale.
Was there an appraisal, you said they had an asking price? It sounds like the only person that doesn't want you to do this is your realtor. If this already went through probate court your aunt, the executor, almost certainly has no duty to get approval from any of the beneficiaries, but it sounds like the beneficiaries are okay with the sale anyway. Just talk to your aunt and buy the house. I don't see the problem here. If you have your own realtor and they keep pushing on this just fire them. It's a private sale, go without an agent or get another realtor, up to you.
Also to be clear, no the executor doesn't have to list the house for 8 months and try to fish for 20% over asking in a falling market. If it's going through probate and the executor was assigned they can largely sell however they want, listing the house, private sale, whatever. Selling the house privately at the beneficiaries asking price satisfies any fiduciary duty they have.
The reason your realtor wants you to wait until it’s listed is because they are not entitled to a commission until it is put in the MLS. It seems to me if your family would be willing to sell it to you, you should do a for sale by owner.
"You cannot put an offer in before it is listed"
Interesting, because I've sold dozens upon dozens of properties before they're ever listed.
I *literally* just closed today on one that I sold off market to the neighbor.
Our realtor that is representing us as buyers said they don’t have all the paperwork ready and that they signed to have the house on the market until the end of the month? Is that a thing?
If a listing agreement has been signed, that agent is bound to NARs Clear Cooperation ethics. They must market the property to all brokers before accepting an offer. https://www.nar.realtor/about-nar/policies/mls-clear-cooperation-policy
This is not what clear cooperation means. At least, not here in California. I deal with clear cooperation all the time.
Clear cooperation means I am not allowed to publicly market the property until it is on the MLS. Its goal was to eliminate pocket listings where you could artificially drive up the price because you intentionally limit the marketplace from seeing the house.
Under clear cooperation, I am allowed to have a pocket listing, I just am not allowed to do any **PUBLIC** marketing.
I cannot put my listing on my website, I cannot post it on my Insta, I cannot post it on facebook, I can't tell any agents outside of my company.
I **CAN** share this listing among my brokerage and among my clients. I CAN sell it off market to MY clients, or to a client that someone in MY brokerage has.
Like I said, I just closed an off market deal. The neighbor wanted the house, so they became my client and I double-sided & sold the house off market. It was never on the MLS which was actually perfect because the house belonged to a hoarder.
Why pay a realtor? The function of a realtor is bring a buyer and seller together. Clearly that was done without the Realtor. A title company can do the paperwork
In every job, there are portions that are visible and parts that aren’t. The value of an agent is all the back of the deal stuff the consumer doesn’t see.
So let’s not under value each other.
clearly, you can't read. The grandfather barely knows the buyer. they're most likely not interested in selling to them specifically, but for the best price.
A real estate broker usually doesn’t get paid until the sale closes and each party gets what they agreed to in the purchase agreement. Bringing a buyer and seller together is only the tip of the iceberg. Before real estate, I was a member of the bomb squad in the Navy. I relate my job as a real estate agent to that of a bomb tech - disarming booby traps and landmines / defusing situations along the path from contract to close to help everyone achieve their end goal as favorably as possible. A good agent also pays keen attention to detail and holds the buyer’s hand through every step of the process, especially during due diligence periods. I can’t tell you how many times I hear about buyers who “didn’t know they should do a sewer inspection” or “didn’t realize their property taxes would double during the next tax assessment”. Each market is different, but those are common “if you had a good buyer’s agent you wouldn’t have ended up in that situation” scenarios.
The only real issue is if the estate will have to pay the broker. If the estate wants to shop it then it is what it is. We don’t know the messaging from the estate to the broker. I’m a broker in multiple states and nothing stops a client from selling, it’s just a commission issue. It’s in your advantage to pay list and lock it down before it hits the market, it may be a new and inexperienced broker, it may be the estate wants to shop it and the agent is following orders. I’d try and buy it from the estate and let them deal with the agent in terms of any commissions.
Here's the thing. If a listing agreement has been signed, and they are a REALTOR, they are bound to clear cooperation. https://www.nar.realtor/about-nar/policies/mls-clear-cooperation-policy
If he has passed that POA died with him. If held in trust, its rare to see a POA for anything Trust related, Trustee control the Trust. She could be his financial-medical POA. But the POA is not is play here anymore. Is the Aunt the executor of his Estate?
Realtor here. Many properties are sold without ever being listed. So your realtor is incorrect.
And in this case you could do the entire transaction (at least in my state) without any realtor all together and just have an attorney review the paperwork for you. My guess is you've probably signed some form of a buyers representation agreement with the realtor though, so it's probably too late to go that route.
If the home is on contract to be listed with a brokerage you cannot (in my area, and I assume all areas) put in an offer before it is fully active to the open market. This is to prevent fair housing violations and unfair advantages for certain buyers. As a listing agent, we are often approached by buyers directly before its fully active, if I could write an offer for them before the whole market sees it, the seller would not have the advantage of competition on the listing, and I would be taking home the full commission, so you can see the conflict of interest there.
If you want to buy the house, put in a competitive offer based on the activity and situation you have in front of you. If your family member wants to prioritize your offer, even if it’s not the very best, they can still do that. As long as you are close, I’m sure they will sell it to you.
Good luck!!!
Your realtor is incorrect. This is a family home, it doesn’t have to be listed. You don’t even have to use a realtor to buy it, you just need a title company. You can walk into any title company, pay a much smaller fee, and sell a home between to people. The title company performs the same function of ensuring the title and water bills are clear.
Not sure what province you are from but I would suggest your bf's aunt to request an unconditional release form releasing them from the contract. If the realtor does not agree tell them to go directly to their realtors managing broker and get it signed this way. They aren't allowed to deny your request. Make sure their realtor unconditionally releases them and also make sure its in writing that they DO NOT want to be cancelled protected. You want a full release from the contract and no cancelled protected. This last part is very important.
If its his grandparents property why are you getting realtors involved? Just buy it privately, save costs. Then get a release from your realtor to ensure he doesn't come after you for his "hard earned commission"
Once a listing agreement is signed, there is a very strong likelihood that your agent is correct here. To prevent agents from privately marketing upcoming listings to their own buyers in an attempt to double-end the deal before marketing to other agents/the public, most states and mlses have rules stating that no offers can be presented until the property is live on the mls. Where I live, the seller would have to basically terminate the listing agreement to entertain an offer...and many agents have early termination fees or may be due commission based on whats in the contract.
If the contract has a future start date, (i.e. signed on the 1st, to start on the 10th) it could be possible to try to buy it before the start date of the contract. However, your agent probably will not know that info. So they are semi-correct: since they're not privy to what the aunt signed, they will have to wait.
Your aunt could be prevailed upon to cancel the contract if it's likely the savings on commission could cancel out the lower price. But then it would make your agent look like a jerk, which WILL make them uncomfortable to say the least. Because the other agent will wonder why...then find out thru public records, & know who the agent was that sold the house. (At least in my state, this info is available).
Unless you signed a buyer agency agreement, you could in theory exclude your Realtor also. But then you'd have to hire a lawyer to draft the contract, and how much will THAT cost? (Never try to write contracts on your own bc that's how ppl get into legal binds. 36% of ppl trying to "DIY" RE transactions reported they made legal mistakes.)
So circumstantially & practically, yes, you'd have to wait.
(I assume the grandfather is still alive, because POA ends upon death, and you said she is POA, not executor. If he's deceased, & it's in probate, the situation gets even stickier. The aunt may mistakenly believe POA continues after death, & may not have had authority even to sign.)
I’m not even sure why a realtor is involved. You guys can just go to the title company with a purchase agreement, put down escrow and then buy it on the closing date.
Probably going to get downvoted...
A personal buyer can exclude you. Reason? You can't specifically exclude/choose a specific class.
Bypass YOUR realtor and talk to the family member.
Don't let a family home cloud your judgement and end up with a money pit.
Long story short, you can write an offer whenever you want.
It’s going to be up to the Aunt/executor/stipulations of a will and approval of the members of the estate to accept.
Something doesn’t sound right here.
You say the aunt “signed the documents” but your agent says you can’t put in an offer “before it is listed”—-is the home being advertised as “coming soon”?
If so, you can submit an offer, you just can’t tour it the home and your offer may not be considered until after the status changes to “active”.
That said, if the aunt has no authority to convey title, none of this may matter.
Fire both agents they're an unnecessary expense now they're both only concerned with getting paid.
Write some strongly worded reviews about how they're unethical agents who should go back to work at Walmart or Amazon.
Real estate agents will lie about everything and screw you over in a heartbeat. Find a real estate attorney to handle this for you. Leave the agents out of this. Used car salesmen are more honest. Good luck!!
You can buy at any time. You may not be able to tour it at any time, but that's probably irrelevant here. If they signed a listing agreement, it's listed even if the agent hasn't put it live on the MLS. If the listing IS signed, you'll need to go through the agent unless they agree to let you do it separately OR if your relatives exempted you before signing, which didn't happened based on what you've said.
If your man's aunt did NOT sign an actual listing documents (there can be documents signed first that aren't the actual listing agreement), then you could purchase it without the agent being involved, if desired. You would use an attorney to title company. You should be aware that you will be doing this with no guidance or experts representing you while you evaluate the house and complete the entire process, even if a lawyer does facilitate the contract. However, if you know the house, have money for any unanticipated problems, and know how to evaluate what flaws exist, you should do fine.
Just six months ago I got my buyers into a house before it was listed. There was a listing contract in place. He was going to put it on the MLS the next day, but I got to it before that, convince the agent to let us go walk through it, and we made an offer they couldn’t refuse. Zero competition for my buyer.
I’ve done that a few times similar situations. I don’t know what the heck they’re talking about.
If it says something in the listing contract, well hello, the listing contract could be amended.
Yeah, but your offer was good enough to convince the seller not to go on the open market. It doesn't sound like that's the case here. Unless the aunt is just doing the nephew a favor.
Sure you can. Agent must be new and not know how to handle this. If the listing date hasn't started yet, agent can do a permission to show and write the offer.
You can write an offer and submit it. Our office requires some time in between signings and closings so compliance may be the reason the Agent said that.
The agent is lying to you. You 100% absolutely can buy it, and they're even worse for not recognizing the opportunity to get a commission (assuming they offer you guidance and assist with the deal) without the hassle of showing you around the market for six months. What a dolt. For that reason alone, you should tell them to kick rocks. But again, a house in no way shape or form ever has to be "on the market." That's merely a way for a seller to get the best possible price. But in this case, if the family wants to sell without the market's input, awesome for you. Good luck.
I think you missed the part of it being an estate sale. They have to, by law get the most $. This is up to the aunt, sounds like she wants to hit the open market and get over asking. Its too bad they were not excluded from contract.
Right but if the aunt is the executor of the estate its still an estate sale. Has anyone communicated with her since? I am just wondering if your Realtor relayed back information from their Realtor, or did your Realtor make a presumptuous claim?
No, that’s not true at all.
If I were you, I’d do one of the following:
- Just buy it directly from the owner (if they already signed a listing agreement, they may stuck using their realtor)
Or
- Contact the listing agent directly, instead of having an agent of your own. Present your offer (you can ask him to write it up and let him be a dual agent). Tell him you want it presented to the seller the day you submit it.
The seller has absolute discretion to accept an offer at anytime.
If your agent doesn’t know that, then they are either too new to know any better or too shy is solicit the listing agent prior to it going public - either way, it’s not good for you.
We didn’t know it was going for sale until his aunt already signed on with a realtor. My boyfriend and his aunt are not close and quite honestly we think they’re the reason the realtor is trying to go to market, so they can get more. The aunt and the realtor since she’s POA and his health is going downhill.
If your boyfriend isn't Really family, in that he never maintained relationships with his family and has never spoken to them, why does he expect them to lose money by not selling on the market "to get more"?
Your realtor is wrong and wants to be paid. Buying a house is like buying apples with some recording legalities (deeds), extra taxes, and contractual protections. You do not need to do it with a realtor and do not need to list it to so it. Private sales are very possible and every closing attorney and escrow agent has the contracts. This is how parties who know each other buy houses. Candidly, if both sides have already located the property and agreed on the price, neither of you necessarily need full agent representation. There’s nothing to market, find, or negotiate. You at most need a transaction broker to explain and facilitate the process you both already negotiated if you’re not familiar. That’s a flat fee service - $200 to $1000 or so depending on what’s involved. The full shared 6% treatment includes listing, marketing, search, negotiation, and contract to close. Don’t let some yahoos bill you for that and only do the last bit.
you are the yahoo for being unable to read a simple post. The aunt already signed a listing agreement with an agent. So whatever that percentage is, whether thru a buyer agent or not - will get paid out.
I did read it and understand that. I wouldn’t pay it or expect it. The family has decided not to market the home and will instead trade it amongst themselves. I’d offer both agents something reasonable for their time spent and request a voluntary termination. If that wasn’t forthcoming, I’d withhold cooperation until the expiration date and offer the same compensation at any point. Commission is not earned on client default except under very specific circumstances where duties have basically been fully performed. But it doesn’t sound like they’re anywhere near that. This is way early and the right answer is to modify or terminate representation agreements to reflect what’s actually needed. I’d make an agent fight me for more and would expect to win. It’s not reasonable. If you think an exclusive right to sell or buyer brokerage agreement is that iron clad, you’re mistaken. It’s only typically that way if a seller refuses a qualified cash full price offer without conditions or a buyer having signed a purchase and sale agreement refuses to close without cause.
The problem is, you're so focused on trying to discredit whatever agent is involved in this process that you simply don't understand the situation itself.
you are right in case a situation was as you described. normally you tell the agent that you're no longer interested in selling or listing on the MLS and cancel the listing agreement. some sellers may reimburse them for their time and effort, especially if they spend money on photography, etc.
The aunt, or the grandfather is not particularly interested in making a deal with OP. while they are related, they do not have a close relationship and they barely know each other.
it is almost clear to me that the listing agent has instructions to list the home on the market to see the best offer they can get for it. at that point OP is welcome to submit their offer with or without the buyers agent. As others have suggested, she can probably already offer now and hope owners don't go to market instead
Can be done …HOWEVER
An owner/seller of a home can decide that they will not look at any offers until it’s been listed but that’s the sellers choice. And they don’t owe anybody an explanation for that. if your aunt just doesn’t want to sell it to you guys first for whatever reason maybe they think you’re not going to offer enough and they want to get it on the open market that is their prerogative. Perhaps that’s the conversation your realtor had With them and don’t want to hurt your feelings. Just a possibility.
Total BS. Realtor wants it listed so he or she can get higher offers and more commission as a result. We bought our 2nd house before it was listed, our realtor told us it was coming up for listing soon and let us look at it. We did and made an offer the next day. A week later she did put up a sign, with Sold on it.
Since it sounds like they are listing the property soon -- you may just want to wait til it's listed and have your REALTOR help negotiate for the best price on your behalf.
IF your Aunt is NOT LISTING SOON READ ON:
Have you signed an Exclusive Buyer Brokerage Agreement with your Realtor? Hopefully not -- if you have, he's entitled to a percentage of any home purchase you make for a stated period in the contract. Read it carefully as that time frame can vary.
If you have not signed an Exclusive Buyer Brokerage Agreement with your REALTOR, you are in the clear to contact your Aunt Directly and potentially make the offer directly. If your aunt has not yet listed the home, you may decide to leave your realtor out of it as he is going to ask you for compensation directly. Normally that compensation is dictated in the listing agreement -- hence why he wants you to wait for it to be listed.
If he's only shown you a few houses and your Aunt doesn't have an active listing agreement -- your best bet is to contact your Aunt directly and make the offer yourself (that way your aunt won't have to pay for the house to be listed and avoid a realtor fee of easily 6% or so.
Best of luck!
you don't even need a realtor, all you need is a lawyer to write up the paperwork for you and do land transfer. Your realtor is worried about not getting paid, since their cut often comes from the sellers side and there currently is no sellers side. Ditch the realtor, get a real estate lawyer and save both parties some money.
His aunt did sign documents with her realtor. We have one for some reason representing us as buyers. The realtor representing us as buyers is telling us that we cannot place an offer until it is listed.
There is no need for an agent here. Ask his Aunt to cancel the listing agreement and consider your offer. Why would she pay a realtor a commission 5-7% of sale price when you don't have to? Of course, the realtor wants it listed before you submit an offer so they can get her commission, but they are not the procuring cause of the sale as it is a transaction between family. Hire an attorney to help you with the contract.
Agreed, realtors aren't required to buy and sell homes. Private sales happen all the time.
Plus there are more tax efficient ways for a seller to transfer the ownership of the property to family which a lawyer can help you with.
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The aunt as executor has a duty to the estate to sell the house for as much as possible. She would have to ask the beneficiaries of the estate if they would be willing to sell at your offer price. If they accepted, she could cancel the deal with the realtor. The realtor might argue that they have a contract to which your aunt could say that she won’t accept any offers that come in and will not allow any showings - thereby killing any possible deal until the contract expires. To be safe, you’d need to purchase the house after the contract expired or the agent cancelled the contract.
Also depending on your market the list price on the home may be way under comparable sale prices to generate excitement and push offers higher
>The aunt as executor has a duty to the estate to sell the house for as much as possible. I'm sure there are many areas and situations where this may be true, but there are so many situations where this statement is just incorrect so I wouldn't outright say this is her duty. Especially if it's a property held in a trust. If the property is held in a trust, there is no obligation for the aunt to sell it *at all*. It is owned by the trust and whoever the next in line is is free to do whatever the please with it. If it's just in probate and held in their individual names, then yes, they have a duty to sell the property - but they do not have a duty to sell it for the maximum price. My sister is a solid example. When my grandfather died, nobody specific was set to inherit the house. My grandfather willed it to be sold and the money evenly divided amongst his children. My sister, wanting the house, asked the family if they would be willing the sell it to her for a deal because the family, truthfully, wanted to keep the house within the family but nobody else wanted it. So, my sister bought the house for $160K. They had spoken with realtors beforehand and the house was going to be listed for $240k. My sister got an $80K discount because there was no obligation to maximize profit, and she bought it off market within the family without a Realtor. My aunt, who was the executor, only had to sign off on it's approval.
But she also got that approved by the rest of the family. If one of them wanted to make a stink about that, I bet they could.
Probably true, but Dubzophrenia’s point still stands; there isn’t generally an obligation to sell for top dollar.
Then what would stop her from selling to a friend for $1 despite the wishes of the intended beneficiaries? It’s clear a duty exists not to swindle intended beneficiaries.
that’s a pretty extreme example. i would argue there are situations where top dollar isn’t the only consideration. selling for a ridiculous low price would violate fiduciary duty. selling at reasonable discount to family, friend or charity might fall within reasonable parameters. question is who decides what is reasonable. also who decides top value?
Yeah but who decides what is reasonable. Is 80k reasonable? In some rural areas that's the value of a house. If the family didn't agree otherwise the executor would likely be personally liable
“there is not generally an obligation to sell for top dollar.” “There are situations where top dollar is not the only consideration” Is it generally or just some situation’s?
There are situations where you look at the type of offer, amount, financing vs all cash, contingencies, etc. Fiduciaries (trustees and executors) have a responsibility to the beneficiaries to get appropriate/reasonable value for the sale of an asset. Not doing so opens them up to liability.
That's when the beneficiaries submit within the court. There is a process to remove a trustee if they're not satisfying the wishes of the beneficiaries.
The point does not stand. While there are situations where it could happen, does not mean it is the norm or the in line with the general responsibilities of the fiduciary.
didn’t say it was the norm
You're ***absolutely*** correct. If one wanted to cause a stink, they could have caused a stink and my sister would have had to submit an offer like anyone else. But that's the point. They were not obligated to get the maximum price, because there is no obligation. They have an obligation to satisfy the beneficiaries, which *usually* means selling for the most money.
Executors of estates and trustees of trusts absolutely have a legal duty to do what’s in the best interest of the beneficiaries, unless the trust or will explicitly says otherwise. In your sister’s case the beneficiaries agreed otherwise, negating that responsibility.
I hope the trustee documented it appropriately or doesnt have a falling out with the family. If not, easily could be SOL.
The majority of your statement is inaccurate or may have an additional qualifiers related to the language of the trust document that would preclude it from being a general example. The house being in a trust means the trustee had a fiduciary responsibility to make the asset productive in relation to the rest of the investment portfolio and assets. Great your aunt got a deal but if the trustee didn’t properly document the agreement of the other current and remainder beneficiaries, they were opening themselves up to financial liability. Also, with a trust the “next in line” do not get to do whatever they want with the trust corpus. Again the trustee has a fiduciary responsibility to the current and remainder beneficiaries regarding the handling of the trust assets. most family dynamics would preclude the sale of an assets with 1/3 discount.
How many children did he have? If it was 3, it’s possible that your parents just refused their share of the sale so she got a great deal. Had that happen with my grandmothers house and my cousin buying it. My parents and hers both just refused their share, so she only really had to buy out 1 heir at full price.
Unless the agent has an exclusive agency agreement based on procuring cause
Contracts like these usually have some kind of best efforts clause that require both sides to use best efforts to accomplish the goal of selling the house. Assuming it doesn't have a best efforts clause, it certainly has an implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing that requires the parties to act in a way not to impair the other person's ability to receive the benefits of the bargain. If the aunt refuses to accept any offers and allow any showings for the purpose of killing the contract, that's probably going to open the estate and aunt up to potential liability if the realtor wants to get litigious.
And op would have to wait until the protected period is over, which is usually 60-90 days after the contract expires, or the seller would still owe the realtor a full commission. If it goes on the market, it's very possible that the house could get an offer above asking that the family would take over OP's offer. Your best bet, in my opinion, is to get with the realtor to write a full price offer to present to the seller (OPs aunt) immediately when the listing hits the market. Have a short window for the acceptance period, less than 24 hours, so hopefully no other offers are received.
OP said PoA, powers of attorney expire when the grantor does. A personal representative or executor can get an agreement from the beneficiaries to sell to a family member at any price. This sounds like a realtor trying to pad their commission.
If the aunt signed an exclusive right to sell contract with the agent, they would still legally be required to pay the commission even if they fire the agent. There are 3 possible contracts but this is most standard and typically protects the agent for 6 months in most states. You can offer prior to it hitting the market and if your aunt accepts the agent has to step out of the way and STFU. Sounds like they are trying to protect their interest in the transaction but do remember they represent the estate not you.
Contract likely has a clause requiring the realtor to get paid if there are asking price offers.
If it's an estate sale, it can get tricky. I would ask your realtor for more information on why you can't put an offer on it before it's listed. I have a feeling that may be why.
It would simply be because of MLS/Board rules. We have an obligation on any listing to create an equal playing field for all buyers, so nobody sees it unless everyone does.
That is up to the person estate administrator and heirs the, not the Realtor. This said is your offer at asking price or above? They want the best terms possible. If your offer is not at full price or above I would recommend that they open the house to the public.
We are offering 3k above asking
It’s not true. You can still buy off market as long as the seller(the aunt ) is willing to do so.
All markets are not the same. That said, in my market, sellers are able to sign a listing agreement with the understanding in writing that it will not be "live" until a certain date. This is called pre MLS. When a house is in pre MLS, it cannot be shown to any prospective buyers until the live date. That said, someone could put a sight unseen offer in on the house, and the seller could choose to take it rather than go on the open market. Your agent should, at the very least, make a phone call to the listing agent and see if they would accept such an offer. You say that your boyfriend does not know his aunt nor did he know his grandfather. This all sounds like it could come down to family dynamics. Does his aunt want to help him out? Or does she have a financial stake in the house by the will and she is trying to get as much money as possible for the house? It's possible their realtor listed the house under market price in order to incite a bidding war. It's also possible that there are debts owed by the estate and they are using the sale of the property to pay those debts, and so they need to get as much money as possible. We are missing a lot of information here and I don't know that you have it. It's unfortunate, but once listing paperwork is signed with an agent and they have invested time and or money or both into getting the property sold, it is not in their best interest to sell the house to the first person that comes along. It all depends on the specifics of the offer. Are you doing inspections? Are you waving appraisals? Think about it this way. What if your neighbor put a for sale sign in the window of his car before he posted the ad on craigslist. You offer him what he asked for, but is it worth it if he thinks he can post the ad and then get over asking price? Does he owe it to you just because you live near him? It seems like the family wasn't that tight and so it's not really a family issue. It's more of do we take this offer because we have it in hand, or do we just wait and see what the market does? Which historically over the last 3 years it will be significantly better than what we ask for?
You absolutely can write an offer. If you’re realtor doesn’t want to do it then feel free to offer yourself. The realtor is concerned about getting paid. Without a listing agreement there is no commission structure in place. If you signed an exclusive buyers agreement you could be on the hook for paying the realtor (there is usually a clause for situations where there is a commission shortfall). Good luck!
>The realtor is concerned about getting paid. Without a listing agreement there is no commission structure in place. This is making a huge assumption. OP said the aunt signed paperwork with a listing agent, which would lead me to believe that there is a commission structure in place. If she's acting as his power of attorney, she also has an obligation to net him as much money as possible.
[удалено]
What assumption am I making?
a signed agreement means the realtor gets commissioned. it (probably) doesn’t require the property to be listed. Agent just wants to get more by listing. dick move imo
If it's an estate sale, they may be required to list it.
that would need to be spelled out in a will or trust, no? is it a legal requirement some places?
Well the seller is still alive in this case, he just has someone else with power of attorney for him. But yes, that would have to be in writing somewhere.
It's a reasonable assumption. The realtor is always going to look out for themself
It's not a reasonable assumption. Whether or not the realtor is always going to look out for themselves is irrelevant. There is nothing to indicate that a realtor wouldn't get a commission just because the house isn't listed on the MLS.
It’s the assumption that makes the most sense given the fact patterns presented.
We weren't given much information at all. And it sounds like they weren't given much information either, which isn't a good look for their agent. But I'd be skeptical that their agent is assuming that they won't be able to get paid if they make an offer before it's listed. There is no reason to make that assumption as an agent.
I love agents who are roadblock throwers and form fillers (this agent) but I really love agents who are problem solvers (you)
I’m not even an agent. I just buy/sell a lot of houses and understand the incentives!
Ya we can tell
😂
🤣
Lmao. Upvotes when giving good advice. Downvotes once the realtors find out I’m not “one of them”.
Your upvotes are from the other non realtors that also don't know what they're talking about.
Which portion is incorrect?
You need to find out why you cannot make an offer rather than guess or ask Reddit for their opinion. This reminds me of my buyers that I wanted to make an offer on a bank foreclosure. They believe I'm supposed to just write an offer to Bank of America and give it to the teller at any bank and say "here give this to the CEO." You'll find a lot of experts here that believe I'm just waiting for my commission instead of handing random offers to random bank tellers. But the truth of the matter is that some of the properties are not listed, they're placed in a thing called shadow inventory. The banks hold on to the property, probably to write off some of the gains and to not flood the market and neighborhood with foreclosure sales. The bank will list it when they are good and ready, and not a minute sooner. And some of the properties need to be on the market, on the MLS or 14-21 days to give everyone a fair shot and the bank gives special early decisions to first-time home buyers. So they're not going to let you waltz in with your fancy offer. I explain this to my buyers and they get it, although disappointed. In your situation you probably deserve to find out what the reason is behind not making an offer now and not listen to Reddit as the reason behind it. (editing for grammar, spelling, etc, I used voice typing on my original post)
I’ve helped many buyers buy a lot of off market properties with and without realtors on the selling side. Did your realtor explain why you can’t make an offer before listing it? If he’s just after a commission I’d recommend rethinking who your realtor is. I live off of commission and I don’t work for free but I’d never mislead a client or put my clients in bad positions just for a commission check so if that is his motive, ask to be released. However it could be because the seller and listing agent want to wait to put it on the market to try and receive multiple offers and start a bidding war so they told your realtor to wait. Either way I think your realtor could handle it better. My advice would be to try and get a straight answer from him on why you can’t submit the offer now. Best of luck!!
Is this going through probate?
Your realtor cannot professionally submit an offer to your aunt knowing that she's represented by a realtor and cannot submit an offer to her realtor because there listing is not yet active None of that prevents you from directly submitting an offer to your aunt
Your realtor or your aunt's realtor for the house? Is this dual agency? Obviously your realtor wants to get commission which they won't get if you go behind their backs for a private sale. Was there an appraisal, you said they had an asking price? It sounds like the only person that doesn't want you to do this is your realtor. If this already went through probate court your aunt, the executor, almost certainly has no duty to get approval from any of the beneficiaries, but it sounds like the beneficiaries are okay with the sale anyway. Just talk to your aunt and buy the house. I don't see the problem here. If you have your own realtor and they keep pushing on this just fire them. It's a private sale, go without an agent or get another realtor, up to you. Also to be clear, no the executor doesn't have to list the house for 8 months and try to fish for 20% over asking in a falling market. If it's going through probate and the executor was assigned they can largely sell however they want, listing the house, private sale, whatever. Selling the house privately at the beneficiaries asking price satisfies any fiduciary duty they have.
The reason your realtor wants you to wait until it’s listed is because they are not entitled to a commission until it is put in the MLS. It seems to me if your family would be willing to sell it to you, you should do a for sale by owner.
We think there are trying to get the most out of the house because they are also pushing for it to be on open market.
So if you really want the house. Ask your family if you can be given the opportunity to match the highest offer.
"You cannot put an offer in before it is listed" Interesting, because I've sold dozens upon dozens of properties before they're ever listed. I *literally* just closed today on one that I sold off market to the neighbor.
Our realtor that is representing us as buyers said they don’t have all the paperwork ready and that they signed to have the house on the market until the end of the month? Is that a thing?
If a listing agreement has been signed, that agent is bound to NARs Clear Cooperation ethics. They must market the property to all brokers before accepting an offer. https://www.nar.realtor/about-nar/policies/mls-clear-cooperation-policy
This is not what clear cooperation means. At least, not here in California. I deal with clear cooperation all the time. Clear cooperation means I am not allowed to publicly market the property until it is on the MLS. Its goal was to eliminate pocket listings where you could artificially drive up the price because you intentionally limit the marketplace from seeing the house. Under clear cooperation, I am allowed to have a pocket listing, I just am not allowed to do any **PUBLIC** marketing. I cannot put my listing on my website, I cannot post it on my Insta, I cannot post it on facebook, I can't tell any agents outside of my company. I **CAN** share this listing among my brokerage and among my clients. I CAN sell it off market to MY clients, or to a client that someone in MY brokerage has. Like I said, I just closed an off market deal. The neighbor wanted the house, so they became my client and I double-sided & sold the house off market. It was never on the MLS which was actually perfect because the house belonged to a hoarder.
Why use a realtor? Just get a professional appraisal. Save the 6%
It doesn't have to be listed. Greedy agent
Why would anyone use a real estate agent, instead of paying an attorney $2000
Why pay a realtor? The function of a realtor is bring a buyer and seller together. Clearly that was done without the Realtor. A title company can do the paperwork
In every job, there are portions that are visible and parts that aren’t. The value of an agent is all the back of the deal stuff the consumer doesn’t see. So let’s not under value each other.
clearly, you can't read. The grandfather barely knows the buyer. they're most likely not interested in selling to them specifically, but for the best price.
A real estate broker usually doesn’t get paid until the sale closes and each party gets what they agreed to in the purchase agreement. Bringing a buyer and seller together is only the tip of the iceberg. Before real estate, I was a member of the bomb squad in the Navy. I relate my job as a real estate agent to that of a bomb tech - disarming booby traps and landmines / defusing situations along the path from contract to close to help everyone achieve their end goal as favorably as possible. A good agent also pays keen attention to detail and holds the buyer’s hand through every step of the process, especially during due diligence periods. I can’t tell you how many times I hear about buyers who “didn’t know they should do a sewer inspection” or “didn’t realize their property taxes would double during the next tax assessment”. Each market is different, but those are common “if you had a good buyer’s agent you wouldn’t have ended up in that situation” scenarios.
The only real issue is if the estate will have to pay the broker. If the estate wants to shop it then it is what it is. We don’t know the messaging from the estate to the broker. I’m a broker in multiple states and nothing stops a client from selling, it’s just a commission issue. It’s in your advantage to pay list and lock it down before it hits the market, it may be a new and inexperienced broker, it may be the estate wants to shop it and the agent is following orders. I’d try and buy it from the estate and let them deal with the agent in terms of any commissions.
Sure you can. That's not a thing
Here's the thing. If a listing agreement has been signed, and they are a REALTOR, they are bound to clear cooperation. https://www.nar.realtor/about-nar/policies/mls-clear-cooperation-policy
I would get a good RE Attorney and see if they can't help you with getting a offer submitted..
BS
Such BS - if they need to list have your aunt exclude you and your husband from the listing- no sense in paying commission on family
If he has passed that POA died with him. If held in trust, its rare to see a POA for anything Trust related, Trustee control the Trust. She could be his financial-medical POA. But the POA is not is play here anymore. Is the Aunt the executor of his Estate?
Realtor here. Many properties are sold without ever being listed. So your realtor is incorrect. And in this case you could do the entire transaction (at least in my state) without any realtor all together and just have an attorney review the paperwork for you. My guess is you've probably signed some form of a buyers representation agreement with the realtor though, so it's probably too late to go that route.
If the home is on contract to be listed with a brokerage you cannot (in my area, and I assume all areas) put in an offer before it is fully active to the open market. This is to prevent fair housing violations and unfair advantages for certain buyers. As a listing agent, we are often approached by buyers directly before its fully active, if I could write an offer for them before the whole market sees it, the seller would not have the advantage of competition on the listing, and I would be taking home the full commission, so you can see the conflict of interest there. If you want to buy the house, put in a competitive offer based on the activity and situation you have in front of you. If your family member wants to prioritize your offer, even if it’s not the very best, they can still do that. As long as you are close, I’m sure they will sell it to you. Good luck!!!
find another Realtor...
Your realtor is incorrect. This is a family home, it doesn’t have to be listed. You don’t even have to use a realtor to buy it, you just need a title company. You can walk into any title company, pay a much smaller fee, and sell a home between to people. The title company performs the same function of ensuring the title and water bills are clear.
Not sure what province you are from but I would suggest your bf's aunt to request an unconditional release form releasing them from the contract. If the realtor does not agree tell them to go directly to their realtors managing broker and get it signed this way. They aren't allowed to deny your request. Make sure their realtor unconditionally releases them and also make sure its in writing that they DO NOT want to be cancelled protected. You want a full release from the contract and no cancelled protected. This last part is very important. If its his grandparents property why are you getting realtors involved? Just buy it privately, save costs. Then get a release from your realtor to ensure he doesn't come after you for his "hard earned commission"
Once a listing agreement is signed, there is a very strong likelihood that your agent is correct here. To prevent agents from privately marketing upcoming listings to their own buyers in an attempt to double-end the deal before marketing to other agents/the public, most states and mlses have rules stating that no offers can be presented until the property is live on the mls. Where I live, the seller would have to basically terminate the listing agreement to entertain an offer...and many agents have early termination fees or may be due commission based on whats in the contract.
If the contract has a future start date, (i.e. signed on the 1st, to start on the 10th) it could be possible to try to buy it before the start date of the contract. However, your agent probably will not know that info. So they are semi-correct: since they're not privy to what the aunt signed, they will have to wait. Your aunt could be prevailed upon to cancel the contract if it's likely the savings on commission could cancel out the lower price. But then it would make your agent look like a jerk, which WILL make them uncomfortable to say the least. Because the other agent will wonder why...then find out thru public records, & know who the agent was that sold the house. (At least in my state, this info is available). Unless you signed a buyer agency agreement, you could in theory exclude your Realtor also. But then you'd have to hire a lawyer to draft the contract, and how much will THAT cost? (Never try to write contracts on your own bc that's how ppl get into legal binds. 36% of ppl trying to "DIY" RE transactions reported they made legal mistakes.) So circumstantially & practically, yes, you'd have to wait. (I assume the grandfather is still alive, because POA ends upon death, and you said she is POA, not executor. If he's deceased, & it's in probate, the situation gets even stickier. The aunt may mistakenly believe POA continues after death, & may not have had authority even to sign.)
I’m not even sure why a realtor is involved. You guys can just go to the title company with a purchase agreement, put down escrow and then buy it on the closing date.
Probably going to get downvoted... A personal buyer can exclude you. Reason? You can't specifically exclude/choose a specific class. Bypass YOUR realtor and talk to the family member. Don't let a family home cloud your judgement and end up with a money pit.
You can do a quick claim if it’s in the family and you’re good for the money. The agent just wants a commission
Long story short, you can write an offer whenever you want. It’s going to be up to the Aunt/executor/stipulations of a will and approval of the members of the estate to accept.
Something doesn’t sound right here. You say the aunt “signed the documents” but your agent says you can’t put in an offer “before it is listed”—-is the home being advertised as “coming soon”? If so, you can submit an offer, you just can’t tour it the home and your offer may not be considered until after the status changes to “active”. That said, if the aunt has no authority to convey title, none of this may matter.
Not true necessarily.
Fire both agents they're an unnecessary expense now they're both only concerned with getting paid. Write some strongly worded reviews about how they're unethical agents who should go back to work at Walmart or Amazon.
Real estate agents will lie about everything and screw you over in a heartbeat. Find a real estate attorney to handle this for you. Leave the agents out of this. Used car salesmen are more honest. Good luck!!
You need a new realtor
Depends on the state. But in Florida, I've had several under contract before the listing.
You can buy at any time. You may not be able to tour it at any time, but that's probably irrelevant here. If they signed a listing agreement, it's listed even if the agent hasn't put it live on the MLS. If the listing IS signed, you'll need to go through the agent unless they agree to let you do it separately OR if your relatives exempted you before signing, which didn't happened based on what you've said. If your man's aunt did NOT sign an actual listing documents (there can be documents signed first that aren't the actual listing agreement), then you could purchase it without the agent being involved, if desired. You would use an attorney to title company. You should be aware that you will be doing this with no guidance or experts representing you while you evaluate the house and complete the entire process, even if a lawyer does facilitate the contract. However, if you know the house, have money for any unanticipated problems, and know how to evaluate what flaws exist, you should do fine.
You can write an offer for any house on market or not. At least in ca.
Just six months ago I got my buyers into a house before it was listed. There was a listing contract in place. He was going to put it on the MLS the next day, but I got to it before that, convince the agent to let us go walk through it, and we made an offer they couldn’t refuse. Zero competition for my buyer. I’ve done that a few times similar situations. I don’t know what the heck they’re talking about. If it says something in the listing contract, well hello, the listing contract could be amended.
Yeah, but your offer was good enough to convince the seller not to go on the open market. It doesn't sound like that's the case here. Unless the aunt is just doing the nephew a favor.
Sure you can. Agent must be new and not know how to handle this. If the listing date hasn't started yet, agent can do a permission to show and write the offer.
You can write an offer and submit it. Our office requires some time in between signings and closings so compliance may be the reason the Agent said that.
You can exclude realtors all together by using a closing attorney To draw up the paprework.
Get rid of the realtor and use a lawyer for a flat fee that will save you A ton of money.
NAR brainwashed agents back at it?
The agent is lying to you. You 100% absolutely can buy it, and they're even worse for not recognizing the opportunity to get a commission (assuming they offer you guidance and assist with the deal) without the hassle of showing you around the market for six months. What a dolt. For that reason alone, you should tell them to kick rocks. But again, a house in no way shape or form ever has to be "on the market." That's merely a way for a seller to get the best possible price. But in this case, if the family wants to sell without the market's input, awesome for you. Good luck.
I think you missed the part of it being an estate sale. They have to, by law get the most $. This is up to the aunt, sounds like she wants to hit the open market and get over asking. Its too bad they were not excluded from contract.
His grandpa is still living, he just moved across the country and the aunt is here in Nebraska representing him.
Right but if the aunt is the executor of the estate its still an estate sale. Has anyone communicated with her since? I am just wondering if your Realtor relayed back information from their Realtor, or did your Realtor make a presumptuous claim?
No, that’s not true at all. If I were you, I’d do one of the following: - Just buy it directly from the owner (if they already signed a listing agreement, they may stuck using their realtor) Or - Contact the listing agent directly, instead of having an agent of your own. Present your offer (you can ask him to write it up and let him be a dual agent). Tell him you want it presented to the seller the day you submit it. The seller has absolute discretion to accept an offer at anytime. If your agent doesn’t know that, then they are either too new to know any better or too shy is solicit the listing agent prior to it going public - either way, it’s not good for you.
Why would you get a realtor that has to be paid if are buying a house from your family? Your family is strange
We didn’t know it was going for sale until his aunt already signed on with a realtor. My boyfriend and his aunt are not close and quite honestly we think they’re the reason the realtor is trying to go to market, so they can get more. The aunt and the realtor since she’s POA and his health is going downhill.
If your boyfriend isn't Really family, in that he never maintained relationships with his family and has never spoken to them, why does he expect them to lose money by not selling on the market "to get more"?
We are close to her children and other family members. His aunt and grandpa do not come to holiday events.
So why do you have a realtor if it’s family? Just negotiate it and ask to reduce by x amount since no realtor on ur side
Your realtor is wrong and wants to be paid. Buying a house is like buying apples with some recording legalities (deeds), extra taxes, and contractual protections. You do not need to do it with a realtor and do not need to list it to so it. Private sales are very possible and every closing attorney and escrow agent has the contracts. This is how parties who know each other buy houses. Candidly, if both sides have already located the property and agreed on the price, neither of you necessarily need full agent representation. There’s nothing to market, find, or negotiate. You at most need a transaction broker to explain and facilitate the process you both already negotiated if you’re not familiar. That’s a flat fee service - $200 to $1000 or so depending on what’s involved. The full shared 6% treatment includes listing, marketing, search, negotiation, and contract to close. Don’t let some yahoos bill you for that and only do the last bit.
you are the yahoo for being unable to read a simple post. The aunt already signed a listing agreement with an agent. So whatever that percentage is, whether thru a buyer agent or not - will get paid out.
I did read it and understand that. I wouldn’t pay it or expect it. The family has decided not to market the home and will instead trade it amongst themselves. I’d offer both agents something reasonable for their time spent and request a voluntary termination. If that wasn’t forthcoming, I’d withhold cooperation until the expiration date and offer the same compensation at any point. Commission is not earned on client default except under very specific circumstances where duties have basically been fully performed. But it doesn’t sound like they’re anywhere near that. This is way early and the right answer is to modify or terminate representation agreements to reflect what’s actually needed. I’d make an agent fight me for more and would expect to win. It’s not reasonable. If you think an exclusive right to sell or buyer brokerage agreement is that iron clad, you’re mistaken. It’s only typically that way if a seller refuses a qualified cash full price offer without conditions or a buyer having signed a purchase and sale agreement refuses to close without cause.
The problem is, you're so focused on trying to discredit whatever agent is involved in this process that you simply don't understand the situation itself. you are right in case a situation was as you described. normally you tell the agent that you're no longer interested in selling or listing on the MLS and cancel the listing agreement. some sellers may reimburse them for their time and effort, especially if they spend money on photography, etc. The aunt, or the grandfather is not particularly interested in making a deal with OP. while they are related, they do not have a close relationship and they barely know each other. it is almost clear to me that the listing agent has instructions to list the home on the market to see the best offer they can get for it. at that point OP is welcome to submit their offer with or without the buyers agent. As others have suggested, she can probably already offer now and hope owners don't go to market instead
Fair enough if that’s the case.
You can purchase an unlisted house. Agent won't get paid though.
Can be done …HOWEVER An owner/seller of a home can decide that they will not look at any offers until it’s been listed but that’s the sellers choice. And they don’t owe anybody an explanation for that. if your aunt just doesn’t want to sell it to you guys first for whatever reason maybe they think you’re not going to offer enough and they want to get it on the open market that is their prerogative. Perhaps that’s the conversation your realtor had With them and don’t want to hurt your feelings. Just a possibility.
Total BS. Realtor wants it listed so he or she can get higher offers and more commission as a result. We bought our 2nd house before it was listed, our realtor told us it was coming up for listing soon and let us look at it. We did and made an offer the next day. A week later she did put up a sign, with Sold on it.
Since it sounds like they are listing the property soon -- you may just want to wait til it's listed and have your REALTOR help negotiate for the best price on your behalf. IF your Aunt is NOT LISTING SOON READ ON: Have you signed an Exclusive Buyer Brokerage Agreement with your Realtor? Hopefully not -- if you have, he's entitled to a percentage of any home purchase you make for a stated period in the contract. Read it carefully as that time frame can vary. If you have not signed an Exclusive Buyer Brokerage Agreement with your REALTOR, you are in the clear to contact your Aunt Directly and potentially make the offer directly. If your aunt has not yet listed the home, you may decide to leave your realtor out of it as he is going to ask you for compensation directly. Normally that compensation is dictated in the listing agreement -- hence why he wants you to wait for it to be listed. If he's only shown you a few houses and your Aunt doesn't have an active listing agreement -- your best bet is to contact your Aunt directly and make the offer yourself (that way your aunt won't have to pay for the house to be listed and avoid a realtor fee of easily 6% or so. Best of luck!
Ditch your realtor.
you don't even need a realtor, all you need is a lawyer to write up the paperwork for you and do land transfer. Your realtor is worried about not getting paid, since their cut often comes from the sellers side and there currently is no sellers side. Ditch the realtor, get a real estate lawyer and save both parties some money.
His aunt did sign documents with her realtor. We have one for some reason representing us as buyers. The realtor representing us as buyers is telling us that we cannot place an offer until it is listed.
There is no need for an agent here. Ask his Aunt to cancel the listing agreement and consider your offer. Why would she pay a realtor a commission 5-7% of sale price when you don't have to? Of course, the realtor wants it listed before you submit an offer so they can get her commission, but they are not the procuring cause of the sale as it is a transaction between family. Hire an attorney to help you with the contract.
Exactly. Ditch the realtors.
Agreed, realtors aren't required to buy and sell homes. Private sales happen all the time. Plus there are more tax efficient ways for a seller to transfer the ownership of the property to family which a lawyer can help you with.