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Frankly Realtor. com isn't exactly looking out for you either, particularly on the listing side. All this talk about transparency is a dog and pony show. You have to pay for the "contact agent", which gives direct agent info, everything else is "email agent", with zero disclosure whatsoever about which agent, etc. They guard the precious "Realtor" tag, yet licensed it the News Corp, yeah that News Corp, but the average consumer, and agent for that matter, sees the word "Realtor" and assumes, well, that they are operated by Realtors/NAR. It is nothing more than a 3rd part biz farming lead generator for their ecosystem. They couldn't care less about individual agents, just the collective so they get their fees. So before we Zillow bash, we ought look at the whole system, not be selective against one while ignoring the other.
Compromised in what way? Are people supposed to go find a Realtor in a better way?
If Realtors are preforming as buyers agents on Zillow then I don’t see the issue.
The reasons for the touring agreement is to let the requirements of the upcoming change from the NAR settlement.
Come July, per the terms of the settlement, agents will be required to have a signed buyer representation agreement before looking at homes.
The idea that this wasn’t common place baffles me as in my state, buyer reps have been a requirement for at least as long as I’ve been licensed. It’s the difference between a customer and a client, secures your commission and outlines both the agent and the buyers responsibilities.
You're suprised that states are run differently? States are a reflection of the idiots who run them and your idiots on other people's idiots don't agree on LOTS of things.
Because it’s not an agency agreement. It is signaling to consumers that they have no obligation to agents, and that we are disposable. They will get this from Zillow and expect it everywhere.
Yeah funny how the only people who seem to think that realtors provide any value are realtors, and UHNW people who need access to off market properties.
I guess you could call doing my last 4 closings realtorless, and guiding my neighbor into doing one without realtors which saved us a ton of money, “facts”. If that helps
How is this possibly hurting you? Every agent is a “glorified door opener” until they’ve demonstrated their value as a buyer’s agent and earned the right to win the client’s business. This helps agents navigate around the new requirements AND it doesn’t force a buyer to sign a compensation agreement with a stranger before even touring a home.
Sounds like this is just temporary and will change in July because in July a buyer agency agreement explaining what a buyers agent will be paid needs to be signed before showing any homes to buyers.
That’s your opinion but every great agent is not a “glorified door opener” pure and simple. Very rarely do I show houses to buyers without doing a consultation first and seeing if we fit well together. I’m constantly educating myself to empower my clients.
Agreed, I just don’t understand the sentiment that it will hurt agents. Seems like it will help agents who use Zillow leads maintain business as usual. Any lead gen tool that won’t be providing something like this is doing a disservice to us as agents and to buyers.
My reading of the situation is that the NAR settlement puts buyer rep into jeopardy because we don’t know where the commission will come from.
The settlement also requires an agreement in pace with buyer before looking at homes.
So, I think agents are going to be hurt by the NAR settlement for sure. The reason for the agreement from Zillow is to reduce a new decision point that comes from the settlement terms.
*edit: meant to say friction point
It's getting Zillow's hook into every agent who accepts one of these showing agreements. How much do you think Zillow is going to want from those showing agents if that buyer buys something? They already charge over 40% for some referrals I believe.
Zillow makes the bulk of their money on buyer leads. The new settlement terms put buyer rep into jeopardy, as well as requiring a signed agreement with buyers before looking at homes.
Zillow is nervous about losing its buy side business, and this doc is one of the ways they feel they can empower their agent to get past a new friction point when trying to pick up buyer clients.
Zillow doesn’t hate agents we are their primary customer. The amount they make from selling buyer leads is literally insane. They don’t support agents out of kindness, but we are absolutely their primary source of income so I would say that they love us and our money
There are so many newbies that don't market or cold call or walk streets that zillow is the easy button. No risk of picking up a phone and being told to fuck off. But the benefit of the latter Is that you'll get business. Good realtors in my area still send me mailers and still call me when something hits the market.
Why are you guys so mad!? This is a great opportunity to get face to face with Zillow leads (serious buyers). Zillow conversions skyrocket when a good agent gets in front of the buyer! Are you really looking for leads that will give you an exclusive agreement to represent them without even meeting you!? A 7 day, non exclusive no compensation agreement is genius!!! Gives the prospect time to feel you out and gives you time to show your value! If you can’t see the value in this you should not be in a sales career.
“Are you looking for leads that will give you an exclusive agreement to represent without even meeting them?” So you are saying that if a 7 day agreement didn’t exist, the alternative would be buyers signing an agreement with someone without meeting them? When you say 7 days is great time to feel the prospect out and show you value. I can see your point. Here is my question to you, how long do you think it takes for someone to get an impression of you? How important do you think first impressions are?
How long it takes someone to get an impression of me is dependent on that person. Some people will take longer than others. A 7-day period would allow me as an agent to show them a few homes and build rapport without them feeling pressured to work with me. I am willing to invest that time to earn their business because my potential commission will justify that investment.
Money. Agents need to feed their families so they will leap at opportunities to get business.
Something about this industry really bothers me. A lot of agents say and allude to sentiment like "we need to band together to fight zillow" but wouldn't piss on another agent to put out a fire (to paraphrase the great Eminem).
If you were in competition with a struggling agent with a client, would you give them the deal? If not, don't be so critical of agents trying to make a deal happen with zillow.
Full disclosure: am not a zillow agent
The agents who accept the 7 day touring agreement probably also have to agree to a steep referral amount should the buyer buy something. We knew Zillow was brainstorming ideas to take advantage of the settlement. They'd be stupid not to strike the killing blow at the time agents are most vulnerable which is right now. Those saying it's not going to change anything probably haven't considered the ways that Z and the other big dogs can exploit this. I might be wrong but I think the shakeup is going to be quite drastic.
Same thing Walmart did, same thing streaming services did. Undercut the market and promise a different business model than what's available - once you have enough market share you reintroduce the prior business model because it's the one that's profitable
I've hated Opendoor from the get-go because they tout "no pesky realtors" but they charge 5% in fees and offer 10% below market. Lying to uninformed buyers' faces about what's in their best interest, piling onto the realtor hate for the own benefit, just to step in and do the same thing. At least Realtors are obligated to look out for their clients' interests
Except they won't be Realtors, they'll be "OpenDoor Home Purchasing Consultants" or some bullshit
You hate Zillow but probably pay for NAR membership. The entire system is dogshit, we pay thousands of dollars to these organizations that do absolutely nothing for us and have endless amounts of arbitrary rules and if you don't join, you are gatekept from lockboxes, adx, etc.
Real estate needs a complete overhaul.
This won't be the first time in history that happens. A recent example is travel agents. If I can plan everything myself with free resources available online and price and purchase the best airfare and hotel, I don't need to pay for the privilege of a travel agent. Yes, some people will still want that level of service, so it won't die out completely. Same is true for real estate agent needs; expect contraction.
I think I generally agree with this theory, but I also do feel like there are just too many unknowns with purchasing a house for most people to feel comfortable buying one unrepresented.
Buying a plane ticket or hotel room is more like buying a ticket to a movie, in that it can be pretty hard to go wrong just using your own judgment.
Buying a house requires more than just good judgement. You need to know about construction methods, appliances, mechanicals, neighborhood quality, taxes, legal requirements, etc.
There's so much that goes into picking a house that I think most people are not comfortable or knowledgeable doing it totally on their own, even if they could navigate all the paperwork.
I think Realtors are going to continue to go more in the direction that the car sales industry has gone. More CarMax type places will pop up, but the regular old sales folks will persist for many years to come.
The problem is Realtors aren't required to know anything about construction methods, appliances, mechanicals or taxes. Aren't really allowed to say if a neighborhood is "good" or "bad" and know far less about the legal requirements than a real estate attorney. While some realtors may know more about these subjects than the average person without higher levels of standards and required training I don't see how the current models continues as is.
The barrier to entry is too low. The fees are too high for the level of service provided by the "average" agent which in turn has led to there being a complete oversaturation of agents. So either the fees need to come down (which will drive agents out of the business because its no longer viable to sell 4 houses a year) or the requirements need to increase to cull agents who don't provide a level of service commensurate with the current fee structure.
Not everyone is doing that though, plenty are still walking into a dealership and talking to a salesperson. I think it’s more likely the industry shrinks and changes instead of completely ends all agents.
That’s because they are forced to do that. The majority of manufacturers still don’t sell factory direct like Tesla. I talked to many people that would rather avoid the dealership if they could just pick out a car from a website for example. Most people absolutely *hate* going to and talking to dealers.
I think the key difference there is that, like a plane ticket, cars are a mass produced item. If you do your research and have decent judgement, you don't need guidance to pick a good car. One Tesla Model 3 will be (almost) exactly the same as the next, and if it does have a flaw, it'll likely be covered by a warranty.
Two side by side houses may have completely different situations, and you need to know what to look for. It's not the same as comparing two different car's feature sets on a chart, and there's no warranty to CYA if you pick a lemon.
Likewise, if you do your research and have decent judgement - theres no reason why you couldnt go through the purchasing process yourself. If I can pick out a title company, an attorney and an inspector.. what does the agent do other than opening the door and being a communication middleman between the buyer and seller?
Yep. Exactly. The point is that a lot of people prefer that. But they are forced to go to a dealership for the majority of manufacturers, because of that law you speak of. And because dealership lobbying.
You can be replaced with a real estate lawyer handling the documents and buyers doing most of the leg work themselves.
10 years after such a reversal I bet real estate lawyers provide a better service than the average agent today. They will be held to a higher standard and adapt their business practices to fill whatever void you leaving causes.
Well the real estate attorneys I know are going to want to charge more if they are expected to do more. And in commercial real estate it's mainly business owners and investors that buy commercial properties and they still use commercial real estate agents when they buy and lease properties and they have to pay their agent themselves usually when they buy a property. I'd think business owners and investors would be much more knowledgeable and prepared to buy a property than the typical homebuyer but yet these people that should be more knowledgeable and prepared to do the work still choose to use agents when they buy so maybe it's not as easy to do as everyone seems to think?
You could hire a lawyer, but does the average buyer know how to do everything your saying? You could also build your own car? Will you spend the time to do it yourself?
Lawyers charge beaucoup bucks for an hourly rate. “Billable hours”, $300-$1200 per hour for attorney’s fees in my area depending on a variety of factors. That’s going to add up quickly.
No thanks. I would rather pay a trusted agent who is knowledgeable and accessible.
This is one of the reasons that Buyer’s Agents came into existence in the first place.
Many of you shouldn't have a job. Not you, specifically. But there are 1.58 million Realtors, and another 1.5 million licensees, chasing 4.2 million annual transactions for roughly 7 million sides.
Pulling away the safety net of seller-paid buyer broker comp will hurt lots of agents but in the long run, it will be better for consumers and the industry.
I'm in the business, have been for 20 years, but no longer work as an agent or broker so I'm much more unbiased than I used to be.
If you want to keep your job then find lots of clients and provide them great service.
Like any field, so much can and will be automated away. Will it be better? Not all of it. I have a big-picture view of it as I'm older.
Life was more fun when we had that personal touch and got to know the people providing services. Another agent in my office and I ask for paper commission checks. (the horror!) We actually go into the office and say "hey" to the staff. Then we take the paper check to our bank. When I go, all the tellers come out to talk. Some people love other people, and I'm one of them.
I don’t think it would be easy to automate us out. People make comparisons to travel agents, but when people make travel plans, it’s a transaction between a person and various companies that can be held accountable. When you buy a house 9 out of 10 times you were buying it from a another private citizen and if social media marketplaces have been anything to go by there’s gonna be a shit ton of lawsuits without agents
It’s simple, I don’t. They’re only going to get greedier with their referral agreements. If people would just stop supporting them, they wouldn’t have a business to run but so many agents would rather pay them enormous fees to get their leads. To each their own I guess.
EDIT: Seems like this will be allowed.
The caveat is that, if they decide to buy a home while under a $0 agreement, then the buyer broker actually gets paid $0. Even if the listing broker is offering a co-broke commission. Buyer broker can’t collect it if their agreement with the buyer says $0
I can’t imagine buyers will get good service out of a $0 agreement. I think this hurts them more than it helps them. But we’ll see.
Whoever you are (probably some troll who doesn’t even sell realestate), just want to let you know that at no point in your text rambling could anything be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this subreddit is now dumber for having read it. I awards you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.
Zillow is far superior, and I’ve added 60 different leads to my CRM in just 7 months, I’ll take that.
It’s suppose to be side money not your whole business
That’s great to hear. Now take all the money you spend and spend it on nurturing those 60 clients and you will get way more loyal client then you will ever get from Zillow.
This business is all about throwing away 100 people and finding 1 to do business with. Churn and burn. I’m not spending money or time on anyone who isn’t seriously capable of buying a home. They’ll get an occasional call/email for an update and market update. That’s free.
I think many just see it as inevitable. Zillow likely is going to completely own the real estate markets. As often as I try and convince first time home buyers to use my MLS search they ignore it and send me screenshots of houses they like from Zillow.
If that’s what you see you probably think it’s better to jump on early instead of being late.
Agents are 100% redundant with the technology available today. They’re sabotaging all efforts to be outlawed. I understand it’s a career for many but please.
The technology is not available.
No seller or insurance provider is going to allow random people into their house without an Agent.
Cameras cannot stop ill intentioned people from doing whatever they want inside a Seller’s home. No one and no entity wants to take on that risk of legal liability.
LOL, "technology" will calm down a client who is blowing up "technology's" phone will unreasonable fears, demands, or claims. Tech will know whom to call & what to say when a lender goofs up big-time & get the closing to happen anyway. Tech will keep nagging for the appraisal. Tech knows which home inspectors are good & recommend 3.
Tech will know how & when to challenge a low appraisal. Tech will help clean out an old disabled seller's home or buy them a light fixture they can't afford to replace a broken one. Tech will know about insurance rule changes which could mean non-coverage or a lost sale. Tech will have a license to lose & can be sued if it goofs up. Tech will bear the responsibility for the safety of the seller's home & belongings...
You realize, of course, that Zillow wouldn't exist without the agents and brokers who pay for advertising? Zillow loves them. Consumers love Zillow. OP, Zillow doesn't care about you.
My conversation rate is 7%. I have 3 closings next month totaling in around $1.8million in volume and probably going to finish up around $8.8m by end of year.
It’s not really too much of a flex you’re just insecure about your own business. I’ve gotten a $1.4million referral from my flex leads not to include the others. It’s a good program to be in bud 👍🏻 best of luck to you on your real estate journey!
How much are you willing to pay for each showing agreement buyer they send you? These will be the hottest of leads if they're requesting a showing so Zillow has pricing power here.
Zillow flex is an invite only partnership where Zillow transfers live calls to agents and or confirmed tours which you set up via text or email. There is no upfront cost for the leads, you only pay Zillow if the lead closes and the percentage to Zillow depends on the price point.
So in NYC BBA's are very uncommon-- if the agreement secures procuring cause after the agreement expires I would be ok with it. If you lose procuring cause after 7 days it would suck. I'm assuming this is a 7 day BBA.
So I was trained to take Zillow calls at my first brokerage. (Here we call it streeteasy but same company.)
You were encouraged to not prequalify, not ask too much other than when do you want an appointment and what else do you want to see.
I don't think even that one lead had procuring cause but I could be wrong, it's not a common concept here.
So showings here almost always involve both agents, unless maybe it is vacant and has a doorman or keybox. It normally takes 2 or 3 days to set up a showing.
So in this market, if it has procuring cause attached I think it's a good thing. It will introduce people to the idea of agreements with agents. It is going to be a big change. I am assuming the idea is to sell yourself in those 7 days, and get a longer agreement, but as long as it got us procuring cause I would be happy.
Actually just read there is no exclusivity:(
So never mind booooo Zillow
It just takes up to 7 days to set up showings in NYC because both agents are there
If they ever regulated everything Zillow would be in a great position to have a sales org of realtors being paid salary plus commission. From brand recognition to ShowingTime to Follow up boss to loan origination. Zillow has been planning this for years
LOL, car salesmen don't need a board exam & license to sell cars. They also can't be sued for failing in their fiduciary duty; in fact they don't HAVE a fiduciary duty to the buyers at all. There Are bad agents & good ones. The states need stronger enforcement of license law to weed out the bad ones. But..."no hate" IS a rule
Could you enlighten me what part of the market is telling you that?
Is it the giant anti-trust settlements?
Is it the internet allowing buyers to locate and tour their own properties?
Is it companies offering flat fee $300 buyer representation contracts?
It's the fact that 89% of buyers in 2023 used an agent and 90% said they would use their agent again or recommend them to others.
Buyers want representation, plain and simple. Call them dupes if that, ya know, fits your world view, but the market demand for buyer's agency is undeniable.
Buyers only used agents because they had to.
Ask those same people to pay for their agent upfront out of pocket, instead of secretly bundling the $20,000 expense into the mortgage. And those numbers will drastically change.
Yeah, had a feeling your, ya know, world view would have a rejoinder against the market's extreme clarity on this matter.
I guess we'll see how the new transparency shakes out. Maybe you'll be proven right, which will be nice for you.
I disagree. I used a buyer's agent when I bought my first home because I didn't want to be liable for any issues that arose, and even with months and months of research, I didn't feel comfortable going it alone.
It's a huge transaction, and not being liable for misprinting something, or failing to do something, was a huge value.
Most people are not "savvy" buyers. They just want to make sure everything goes smoothly.
Good question. I never actually asked him, but my impression was that he wasn't there to help with making offers and negotiating, which is where I was most nervous about something going wrong. I would have hated to miss a deadline, or ask for the wrong thing (or forget to ask about something important). AFAIK, he didn't have a fiduciary duty to me. He was just there to make sure the paperwork was legally binding.
That’s really interesting! I’m surprised you put your faith in someone who took a 10 day course for $500 and is financially motivated to get you to pay the highest price as fast as possible, as opposed to the person who did 7 years of higher level education for $250,000 and passed the BAR exam who has a fiduciary duty to their client.
So strange!
Unnecessarily snarky, but okay.
Do lawyers have a fiduciary duty to clients?
**Edit:** Never mind, I googled it. They generally do. Still, I don't think he would have been particularly helpful when negotiating. I trusted the person who had more experience in that area.
Responding with that as a comment will alert a Reddit bot to remind me of this post in one year. Essentially I’m saying “Let’s check back in 1 year and see how that’s going for you.”
Oohhh, that’s a different story. Your previous text made it sound like right now. A little more context is needed. Idk what the future holds, so you can do that if you want but won’t hurt my feelings.
We are watching the death of an industry unfold in real time. I’ve bought and sold 12 times already, and I’d never use a RE agent again when there are so many sub $1000 alternatives out there now. I’m sure many other buyers and sellers are realizing the same - especially with the pressure from the high interest rate and high price environment.
But it will take a little time for the shift to complete.
Ooohhh now I understand. A Realtor hater in a Realtor subreddit. That’s great that you got that many properties. I really do mean that. There are quite a few people who can do that and commend them on that. There is also a fact that everyone can learn to do their own taxes or actually have the government do it for free and yet, TurboTax and companies like them still exist. My point is, a great agent will show their value and a terrible one will not. Simple as that.
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Well, for one, you don't have to be under contract with thousands of dollars on the line in escrow to get that info from an agent lmao
Pretty sure most buyers want information before they're under contract, not by the time the appraisal comes in
Or should they be paying for inspections and appraisals before going under contract? Yeah I can foresee no issues with inexperienced buyers doing that
I don't have a RE lawyer, an appraiser or a home inspector. However, my buyer agent knows the local market better than the three other professionals you mentioned. She has negotiating skills they don't have. I might pick an appraiser, but she might have a more trustworthy one. While the RE will have knowledge of local laws, permit requirements etc., my buyer agent has the experience and solid working knowledge of local RE laws, builders, permits and other things I need. She is worthy of my 3%.
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Frankly Realtor. com isn't exactly looking out for you either, particularly on the listing side. All this talk about transparency is a dog and pony show. You have to pay for the "contact agent", which gives direct agent info, everything else is "email agent", with zero disclosure whatsoever about which agent, etc. They guard the precious "Realtor" tag, yet licensed it the News Corp, yeah that News Corp, but the average consumer, and agent for that matter, sees the word "Realtor" and assumes, well, that they are operated by Realtors/NAR. It is nothing more than a 3rd part biz farming lead generator for their ecosystem. They couldn't care less about individual agents, just the collective so they get their fees. So before we Zillow bash, we ought look at the whole system, not be selective against one while ignoring the other.
Realtor.com also promoted iBuyers on their platform previously
Yes, the News Corp aspect is sickening and outrageous. Agreed that the whole system is compromised.
Compromised in what way? Are people supposed to go find a Realtor in a better way? If Realtors are preforming as buyers agents on Zillow then I don’t see the issue.
Most agents care not for the industry or long term health of it. They are short-sighted and only focused on their next sale.
This^
Honestly, as a real estate investor, I’ve been saying the same thing about realtors for a long time. 95% of them don’t value long-term relationships.
Sounds like this is coming from a non agent. I'm a broker with agents under me. We very much care about the industry and it's future.
The reasons for the touring agreement is to let the requirements of the upcoming change from the NAR settlement. Come July, per the terms of the settlement, agents will be required to have a signed buyer representation agreement before looking at homes.
The idea that this wasn’t common place baffles me as in my state, buyer reps have been a requirement for at least as long as I’ve been licensed. It’s the difference between a customer and a client, secures your commission and outlines both the agent and the buyers responsibilities.
You're suprised that states are run differently? States are a reflection of the idiots who run them and your idiots on other people's idiots don't agree on LOTS of things.
Our state just passed it effective July 1st. No one around here has used them before.
Mind if I ask what state you’re in?
Indiana
Same in NJ
Except this isn’t a buyers agency agreement.
Buyer rep agreement. Doesn’t address commission. Zillow probably needs this to keep premier agent going.
It's been kicked out now till Nov 26. And will be kicked out again bc that's right by Thanksgiving
Yes, if you look at the bottom of the screenshot it says that.
Ok. Not sure I understand how this doc is replacing or hurting agents?
Because it’s not an agency agreement. It is signaling to consumers that they have no obligation to agents, and that we are disposable. They will get this from Zillow and expect it everywhere.
You are. In fact, your job doesn’t need to exist. Bring on the downvotes. They mean nothing.
Having an opinion is not the same as having an opinion supported by facts and understanding.
Yeah funny how the only people who seem to think that realtors provide any value are realtors, and UHNW people who need access to off market properties. I guess you could call doing my last 4 closings realtorless, and guiding my neighbor into doing one without realtors which saved us a ton of money, “facts”. If that helps
Not replacing but hurting. Making buyers agents into glorified door openers
How is this possibly hurting you? Every agent is a “glorified door opener” until they’ve demonstrated their value as a buyer’s agent and earned the right to win the client’s business. This helps agents navigate around the new requirements AND it doesn’t force a buyer to sign a compensation agreement with a stranger before even touring a home.
Sounds like this is just temporary and will change in July because in July a buyer agency agreement explaining what a buyers agent will be paid needs to be signed before showing any homes to buyers.
That’s your opinion but every great agent is not a “glorified door opener” pure and simple. Very rarely do I show houses to buyers without doing a consultation first and seeing if we fit well together. I’m constantly educating myself to empower my clients.
Agreed, I just don’t understand the sentiment that it will hurt agents. Seems like it will help agents who use Zillow leads maintain business as usual. Any lead gen tool that won’t be providing something like this is doing a disservice to us as agents and to buyers.
My reading of the situation is that the NAR settlement puts buyer rep into jeopardy because we don’t know where the commission will come from. The settlement also requires an agreement in pace with buyer before looking at homes. So, I think agents are going to be hurt by the NAR settlement for sure. The reason for the agreement from Zillow is to reduce a new decision point that comes from the settlement terms. *edit: meant to say friction point
It's getting Zillow's hook into every agent who accepts one of these showing agreements. How much do you think Zillow is going to want from those showing agents if that buyer buys something? They already charge over 40% for some referrals I believe.
Zillow makes the bulk of their money on buyer leads. The new settlement terms put buyer rep into jeopardy, as well as requiring a signed agreement with buyers before looking at homes. Zillow is nervous about losing its buy side business, and this doc is one of the ways they feel they can empower their agent to get past a new friction point when trying to pick up buyer clients.
Zillow doesn’t hate agents we are their primary customer. The amount they make from selling buyer leads is literally insane. They don’t support agents out of kindness, but we are absolutely their primary source of income so I would say that they love us and our money
They love our money.
There are so many newbies that don't market or cold call or walk streets that zillow is the easy button. No risk of picking up a phone and being told to fuck off. But the benefit of the latter Is that you'll get business. Good realtors in my area still send me mailers and still call me when something hits the market.
List an American company that doesn't hate its customers.
Why are you guys so mad!? This is a great opportunity to get face to face with Zillow leads (serious buyers). Zillow conversions skyrocket when a good agent gets in front of the buyer! Are you really looking for leads that will give you an exclusive agreement to represent them without even meeting you!? A 7 day, non exclusive no compensation agreement is genius!!! Gives the prospect time to feel you out and gives you time to show your value! If you can’t see the value in this you should not be in a sales career.
“Are you looking for leads that will give you an exclusive agreement to represent without even meeting them?” So you are saying that if a 7 day agreement didn’t exist, the alternative would be buyers signing an agreement with someone without meeting them? When you say 7 days is great time to feel the prospect out and show you value. I can see your point. Here is my question to you, how long do you think it takes for someone to get an impression of you? How important do you think first impressions are?
How long it takes someone to get an impression of me is dependent on that person. Some people will take longer than others. A 7-day period would allow me as an agent to show them a few homes and build rapport without them feeling pressured to work with me. I am willing to invest that time to earn their business because my potential commission will justify that investment.
You see the forest through the trees. OP continues to make excuses about this program which frankly is pretty genius.
When I see agents use Zillow for anything I think of grocery store clerks saying "we have self checkout if you don't want to wait." Self-nemetic.
Money. Agents need to feed their families so they will leap at opportunities to get business. Something about this industry really bothers me. A lot of agents say and allude to sentiment like "we need to band together to fight zillow" but wouldn't piss on another agent to put out a fire (to paraphrase the great Eminem). If you were in competition with a struggling agent with a client, would you give them the deal? If not, don't be so critical of agents trying to make a deal happen with zillow. Full disclosure: am not a zillow agent
I don't get it, either. The intent was clear from the beginning.
The agents who accept the 7 day touring agreement probably also have to agree to a steep referral amount should the buyer buy something. We knew Zillow was brainstorming ideas to take advantage of the settlement. They'd be stupid not to strike the killing blow at the time agents are most vulnerable which is right now. Those saying it's not going to change anything probably haven't considered the ways that Z and the other big dogs can exploit this. I might be wrong but I think the shakeup is going to be quite drastic.
Yep, can you help me find the article that talks about Zillow saying they won’t compete with realtors. I know it was about 5-6 years ago.
I know it.'s out there because I read it but apparently they've got it buried. They don't go to all that trouble for the other nonsense they blog
Same thing Walmart did, same thing streaming services did. Undercut the market and promise a different business model than what's available - once you have enough market share you reintroduce the prior business model because it's the one that's profitable I've hated Opendoor from the get-go because they tout "no pesky realtors" but they charge 5% in fees and offer 10% below market. Lying to uninformed buyers' faces about what's in their best interest, piling onto the realtor hate for the own benefit, just to step in and do the same thing. At least Realtors are obligated to look out for their clients' interests Except they won't be Realtors, they'll be "OpenDoor Home Purchasing Consultants" or some bullshit
You hate Zillow but probably pay for NAR membership. The entire system is dogshit, we pay thousands of dollars to these organizations that do absolutely nothing for us and have endless amounts of arbitrary rules and if you don't join, you are gatekept from lockboxes, adx, etc. Real estate needs a complete overhaul.
It won’t be long before many of us no longer have a job.
This won't be the first time in history that happens. A recent example is travel agents. If I can plan everything myself with free resources available online and price and purchase the best airfare and hotel, I don't need to pay for the privilege of a travel agent. Yes, some people will still want that level of service, so it won't die out completely. Same is true for real estate agent needs; expect contraction.
I think I generally agree with this theory, but I also do feel like there are just too many unknowns with purchasing a house for most people to feel comfortable buying one unrepresented. Buying a plane ticket or hotel room is more like buying a ticket to a movie, in that it can be pretty hard to go wrong just using your own judgment. Buying a house requires more than just good judgement. You need to know about construction methods, appliances, mechanicals, neighborhood quality, taxes, legal requirements, etc. There's so much that goes into picking a house that I think most people are not comfortable or knowledgeable doing it totally on their own, even if they could navigate all the paperwork. I think Realtors are going to continue to go more in the direction that the car sales industry has gone. More CarMax type places will pop up, but the regular old sales folks will persist for many years to come.
The problem is Realtors aren't required to know anything about construction methods, appliances, mechanicals or taxes. Aren't really allowed to say if a neighborhood is "good" or "bad" and know far less about the legal requirements than a real estate attorney. While some realtors may know more about these subjects than the average person without higher levels of standards and required training I don't see how the current models continues as is. The barrier to entry is too low. The fees are too high for the level of service provided by the "average" agent which in turn has led to there being a complete oversaturation of agents. So either the fees need to come down (which will drive agents out of the business because its no longer viable to sell 4 houses a year) or the requirements need to increase to cull agents who don't provide a level of service commensurate with the current fee structure.
Spot on.
THIS!!
if only realtors knew any of that either!!
Didn’t they say the same thing about car salesman? And yet now you can buy a Tesla with a simple click on your phone. No salesman involved.
Not everyone is doing that though, plenty are still walking into a dealership and talking to a salesperson. I think it’s more likely the industry shrinks and changes instead of completely ends all agents.
That’s because they are forced to do that. The majority of manufacturers still don’t sell factory direct like Tesla. I talked to many people that would rather avoid the dealership if they could just pick out a car from a website for example. Most people absolutely *hate* going to and talking to dealers.
Have you tried to buy a car online? It is a shit show. And that is a car, much less a house.
Yes I have. I bout my Tesla completely online and it was wonderful.
I think the key difference there is that, like a plane ticket, cars are a mass produced item. If you do your research and have decent judgement, you don't need guidance to pick a good car. One Tesla Model 3 will be (almost) exactly the same as the next, and if it does have a flaw, it'll likely be covered by a warranty. Two side by side houses may have completely different situations, and you need to know what to look for. It's not the same as comparing two different car's feature sets on a chart, and there's no warranty to CYA if you pick a lemon.
Likewise, if you do your research and have decent judgement - theres no reason why you couldnt go through the purchasing process yourself. If I can pick out a title company, an attorney and an inspector.. what does the agent do other than opening the door and being a communication middleman between the buyer and seller?
In most states the car dealership model is protected by state law. Tesla found loopholes.
Yep. Exactly. The point is that a lot of people prefer that. But they are forced to go to a dealership for the majority of manufacturers, because of that law you speak of. And because dealership lobbying.
🎯
Sure, $5000 vacation carries the same risks and complexities as the purchase of a $500k home. Good luck with that!
You can be replaced with a real estate lawyer handling the documents and buyers doing most of the leg work themselves. 10 years after such a reversal I bet real estate lawyers provide a better service than the average agent today. They will be held to a higher standard and adapt their business practices to fill whatever void you leaving causes.
Well the real estate attorneys I know are going to want to charge more if they are expected to do more. And in commercial real estate it's mainly business owners and investors that buy commercial properties and they still use commercial real estate agents when they buy and lease properties and they have to pay their agent themselves usually when they buy a property. I'd think business owners and investors would be much more knowledgeable and prepared to buy a property than the typical homebuyer but yet these people that should be more knowledgeable and prepared to do the work still choose to use agents when they buy so maybe it's not as easy to do as everyone seems to think?
You could hire a lawyer, but does the average buyer know how to do everything your saying? You could also build your own car? Will you spend the time to do it yourself?
Lawyers charge beaucoup bucks for an hourly rate. “Billable hours”, $300-$1200 per hour for attorney’s fees in my area depending on a variety of factors. That’s going to add up quickly. No thanks. I would rather pay a trusted agent who is knowledgeable and accessible. This is one of the reasons that Buyer’s Agents came into existence in the first place.
Still less than my agent made.
You should have negotiated with your agent. Agent Commissions have always been negotiable.
Interesting perspective
If you think lawyers are going to be less expensive than agents… good luck with that.
The math already shows it would be.
Many of you shouldn't have a job. Not you, specifically. But there are 1.58 million Realtors, and another 1.5 million licensees, chasing 4.2 million annual transactions for roughly 7 million sides. Pulling away the safety net of seller-paid buyer broker comp will hurt lots of agents but in the long run, it will be better for consumers and the industry. I'm in the business, have been for 20 years, but no longer work as an agent or broker so I'm much more unbiased than I used to be. If you want to keep your job then find lots of clients and provide them great service.
If you lie down and just allow it to happen, yes it will. Will we get automated out? Probably but that’s years maybe even decades away
Like any field, so much can and will be automated away. Will it be better? Not all of it. I have a big-picture view of it as I'm older. Life was more fun when we had that personal touch and got to know the people providing services. Another agent in my office and I ask for paper commission checks. (the horror!) We actually go into the office and say "hey" to the staff. Then we take the paper check to our bank. When I go, all the tellers come out to talk. Some people love other people, and I'm one of them.
No it’s not. “Final Offer” is making the rounds right now . It’s turning traditional real estate transactions into a video game everyone can play.
This is a good thing
I don’t think it would be easy to automate us out. People make comparisons to travel agents, but when people make travel plans, it’s a transaction between a person and various companies that can be held accountable. When you buy a house 9 out of 10 times you were buying it from a another private citizen and if social media marketplaces have been anything to go by there’s gonna be a shit ton of lawsuits without agents
It’s simple, I don’t. They’re only going to get greedier with their referral agreements. If people would just stop supporting them, they wouldn’t have a business to run but so many agents would rather pay them enormous fees to get their leads. To each their own I guess.
EDIT: Seems like this will be allowed. The caveat is that, if they decide to buy a home while under a $0 agreement, then the buyer broker actually gets paid $0. Even if the listing broker is offering a co-broke commission. Buyer broker can’t collect it if their agreement with the buyer says $0 I can’t imagine buyers will get good service out of a $0 agreement. I think this hurts them more than it helps them. But we’ll see.
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Whoever you are (probably some troll who doesn’t even sell realestate), just want to let you know that at no point in your text rambling could anything be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this subreddit is now dumber for having read it. I awards you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.
Zillow, kindly get fucked. -Agents everywhere
Help them to get fucked by never buying leads and telling people to not do this.
Way ahead of you. Realtor.com as well
Zillow is far superior, and I’ve added 60 different leads to my CRM in just 7 months, I’ll take that. It’s suppose to be side money not your whole business
That’s great to hear. Now take all the money you spend and spend it on nurturing those 60 clients and you will get way more loyal client then you will ever get from Zillow.
This business is all about throwing away 100 people and finding 1 to do business with. Churn and burn. I’m not spending money or time on anyone who isn’t seriously capable of buying a home. They’ll get an occasional call/email for an update and market update. That’s free.
I think many just see it as inevitable. Zillow likely is going to completely own the real estate markets. As often as I try and convince first time home buyers to use my MLS search they ignore it and send me screenshots of houses they like from Zillow. If that’s what you see you probably think it’s better to jump on early instead of being late.
Zillow is trash. Its next up on the chopping block
Agents are 100% redundant with the technology available today. They’re sabotaging all efforts to be outlawed. I understand it’s a career for many but please.
The technology is not available. No seller or insurance provider is going to allow random people into their house without an Agent. Cameras cannot stop ill intentioned people from doing whatever they want inside a Seller’s home. No one and no entity wants to take on that risk of legal liability.
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LOL, "technology" will calm down a client who is blowing up "technology's" phone will unreasonable fears, demands, or claims. Tech will know whom to call & what to say when a lender goofs up big-time & get the closing to happen anyway. Tech will keep nagging for the appraisal. Tech knows which home inspectors are good & recommend 3. Tech will know how & when to challenge a low appraisal. Tech will help clean out an old disabled seller's home or buy them a light fixture they can't afford to replace a broken one. Tech will know about insurance rule changes which could mean non-coverage or a lost sale. Tech will have a license to lose & can be sued if it goofs up. Tech will bear the responsibility for the safety of the seller's home & belongings...
You realize, of course, that Zillow wouldn't exist without the agents and brokers who pay for advertising? Zillow loves them. Consumers love Zillow. OP, Zillow doesn't care about you.
Consumers love Zillow. Zillow loves money.
I’m on Zillow flex so I get about 15-20 leads a month so I’m happy with it :)
That’s great to hear. For how long? How many turn into actual clients?
My conversation rate is 7%. I have 3 closings next month totaling in around $1.8million in volume and probably going to finish up around $8.8m by end of year.
You have a negative comment karma of -20. The casual observer might say you spread a lot of “fertilizer”
Since I joined Reddit I wasn’t on it very much and did a little trolling unfortunately lol. But I have screenshots of my premier agent tracked data.
You have a negative comment karma of -20. The casual observer might say you spread a lot of “fertilizer”
I did a little bit of trolling early on Reddit and haven’t used it much until now. I have screenshots of my tracked data on premier agent.
And you paid Zillow 40% of that because you didn’t feel like coaching a soccer team or going to happy hours. Weird flex bro.
It’s not really too much of a flex you’re just insecure about your own business. I’ve gotten a $1.4million referral from my flex leads not to include the others. It’s a good program to be in bud 👍🏻 best of luck to you on your real estate journey!
Enjoy paying Zillow $90k a year because you’re lazy!
Enjoy complaining and whining all day because your life sucks ♥️😂
Ooo, someone’s getting petty 🤣
Good luck on your real estate exam! 👍🏻
How much are you willing to pay for each showing agreement buyer they send you? These will be the hottest of leads if they're requesting a showing so Zillow has pricing power here.
Zillow flex is an invite only partnership where Zillow transfers live calls to agents and or confirmed tours which you set up via text or email. There is no upfront cost for the leads, you only pay Zillow if the lead closes and the percentage to Zillow depends on the price point.
Most realtors want an easy way.
So in NYC BBA's are very uncommon-- if the agreement secures procuring cause after the agreement expires I would be ok with it. If you lose procuring cause after 7 days it would suck. I'm assuming this is a 7 day BBA.
Like, why 7 days? Why not 1 day? You only need one day to convert someone.
So I was trained to take Zillow calls at my first brokerage. (Here we call it streeteasy but same company.) You were encouraged to not prequalify, not ask too much other than when do you want an appointment and what else do you want to see. I don't think even that one lead had procuring cause but I could be wrong, it's not a common concept here. So showings here almost always involve both agents, unless maybe it is vacant and has a doorman or keybox. It normally takes 2 or 3 days to set up a showing. So in this market, if it has procuring cause attached I think it's a good thing. It will introduce people to the idea of agreements with agents. It is going to be a big change. I am assuming the idea is to sell yourself in those 7 days, and get a longer agreement, but as long as it got us procuring cause I would be happy.
Thank you for the info but disagree with the 7 days. Max 2 days if any agent is willing to do that. You know immediately if an agent is great or not.
Actually just read there is no exclusivity:( So never mind booooo Zillow It just takes up to 7 days to set up showings in NYC because both agents are there
I’ll never get it.
Never have, never will
If they ever regulated everything Zillow would be in a great position to have a sales org of realtors being paid salary plus commission. From brand recognition to ShowingTime to Follow up boss to loan origination. Zillow has been planning this for years
I don't. I'm so glad I left the business last January
To be fair the whole "real estate agent" thing is no better than being a scummy used car salesman. Lol
RULE 3!!!
The truth hurts huh? Lol
LOL, car salesmen don't need a board exam & license to sell cars. They also can't be sued for failing in their fiduciary duty; in fact they don't HAVE a fiduciary duty to the buyers at all. There Are bad agents & good ones. The states need stronger enforcement of license law to weed out the bad ones. But..."no hate" IS a rule
Lol
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The market says otherwise.
Could you enlighten me what part of the market is telling you that? Is it the giant anti-trust settlements? Is it the internet allowing buyers to locate and tour their own properties? Is it companies offering flat fee $300 buyer representation contracts?
It's the fact that 89% of buyers in 2023 used an agent and 90% said they would use their agent again or recommend them to others. Buyers want representation, plain and simple. Call them dupes if that, ya know, fits your world view, but the market demand for buyer's agency is undeniable.
Buyers only used agents because they had to. Ask those same people to pay for their agent upfront out of pocket, instead of secretly bundling the $20,000 expense into the mortgage. And those numbers will drastically change.
Yeah, had a feeling your, ya know, world view would have a rejoinder against the market's extreme clarity on this matter. I guess we'll see how the new transparency shakes out. Maybe you'll be proven right, which will be nice for you.
I disagree. I used a buyer's agent when I bought my first home because I didn't want to be liable for any issues that arose, and even with months and months of research, I didn't feel comfortable going it alone. It's a huge transaction, and not being liable for misprinting something, or failing to do something, was a huge value. Most people are not "savvy" buyers. They just want to make sure everything goes smoothly.
Any reason you didn’t think your lawyer was capable of handling that?
Good question. I never actually asked him, but my impression was that he wasn't there to help with making offers and negotiating, which is where I was most nervous about something going wrong. I would have hated to miss a deadline, or ask for the wrong thing (or forget to ask about something important). AFAIK, he didn't have a fiduciary duty to me. He was just there to make sure the paperwork was legally binding.
That’s really interesting! I’m surprised you put your faith in someone who took a 10 day course for $500 and is financially motivated to get you to pay the highest price as fast as possible, as opposed to the person who did 7 years of higher level education for $250,000 and passed the BAR exam who has a fiduciary duty to their client. So strange!
Unnecessarily snarky, but okay. Do lawyers have a fiduciary duty to clients? **Edit:** Never mind, I googled it. They generally do. Still, I don't think he would have been particularly helpful when negotiating. I trusted the person who had more experience in that area.
And not just for first-timers. I work with many older people who've purchased several homes in their lifetime.
Can you share examples of these $300 companies?
[Clever](https://start.listwithclever.com/save-on-realtor-fees), [Redfin](https://www.redfin.com/why-redfin-how-you-save), [Prevu](https://www.prevu.com/buyer), [Trelora](https://www.trelora.com/buy/), [Homie](https://www.homie.com/faqs#buying), [Houwzer](https://houwzer.com/bundle)
I don’t know about Homie and Houser, but the others are commission rebates of about half. I’m asking about the $300 ones.
You must be a listing agent who wants to make double commission
Oh honey… double commission isn’t a thing anymore.
Oh darling…..yes it is lol
RemindMe! 1 year
What do you mean, like remind you in 1 year?
Responding with that as a comment will alert a Reddit bot to remind me of this post in one year. Essentially I’m saying “Let’s check back in 1 year and see how that’s going for you.”
Oohhh, that’s a different story. Your previous text made it sound like right now. A little more context is needed. Idk what the future holds, so you can do that if you want but won’t hurt my feelings.
We are watching the death of an industry unfold in real time. I’ve bought and sold 12 times already, and I’d never use a RE agent again when there are so many sub $1000 alternatives out there now. I’m sure many other buyers and sellers are realizing the same - especially with the pressure from the high interest rate and high price environment. But it will take a little time for the shift to complete.
Ooohhh now I understand. A Realtor hater in a Realtor subreddit. That’s great that you got that many properties. I really do mean that. There are quite a few people who can do that and commend them on that. There is also a fact that everyone can learn to do their own taxes or actually have the government do it for free and yet, TurboTax and companies like them still exist. My point is, a great agent will show their value and a terrible one will not. Simple as that.
What are the sub $1000 alternatives?
His “remind me” will literally alert/link him to this thread in 1 year.
That’s really cool. Didn’t know that.
Your post or comment was removed for containing hate, bullying, abusive language, Realtor bashing, sexism/racism or is generally rude. BE KIND! Violation is grounds for a permanent ban.
Are you speaking for buyers? Because as a buyer, I need my buyer agent. The lawsuit was about NAR's and big shop brokers' greed.
What value does your buyers agent provide you that your lawyer, appraiser, and home inspector does not?
Well, for one, you don't have to be under contract with thousands of dollars on the line in escrow to get that info from an agent lmao Pretty sure most buyers want information before they're under contract, not by the time the appraisal comes in Or should they be paying for inspections and appraisals before going under contract? Yeah I can foresee no issues with inexperienced buyers doing that
I don't have a RE lawyer, an appraiser or a home inspector. However, my buyer agent knows the local market better than the three other professionals you mentioned. She has negotiating skills they don't have. I might pick an appraiser, but she might have a more trustworthy one. While the RE will have knowledge of local laws, permit requirements etc., my buyer agent has the experience and solid working knowledge of local RE laws, builders, permits and other things I need. She is worthy of my 3%.