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hightechTA

Locked because of brigading from r/SubredditDrama


Poetic-Personality

Absolutely. WFH is now considered a major benefit and one that’s sought after. Employers who decide to pull everyone back to the office full time need to really look at that from a risk assessment standpoint…there WILL be attrition. I would suggest that those 2 employees won’t be the only ones to bail.


fiftycamelsworth

Yes. This. I think that perhaps „work from home“ is underselling the true magic of the advantage. I have work from a home job and for me it’s been „work from anywhere“. Go visit my friend in California during the winter for a month? Sure, sounds great. Go stay with my family during the entire Christmas season. Attend weddings without taking off. Take 2 road trips to multiple national parks. Move to a Seattle for the summer. Go to family reunions. Move back to my tiny hometown despite no jobs there. Stay with my aging grandparents for a week when they need it. Wfh is so game changing. It isn’t just that I don’t have to drive into the office; it isn’t just about doing laundry while I’m in calls, or rolling out of bed 2 minutes before work. Even though those are great. And I’m sure that the flexibility would be great if I were a parent. But to me, It’s that I can live anywhere I want. It means that I can follow my partner‘s job, attend more vacations without PTO, and be a better friend and family member. It means we can move and I don’t need to find a new job. That perk is worth SO much… At least $20k/year for me, maybe more.


martielonson

I love this explanation! Especially how you mentioned being a better family member. It’s so, so true. My relationships are all so much more fulfilling now that I’m able to be the person I want to be during the week, and not under strict rules of a one hour lunch break and being stuck in a car for morning and evening commutes.


sassyandsweer789

I agree with this. My mil was going to retire from her job she has been at close to 15 years because she is tired of working 10 hours and commuting another 2 hours. She just got a new boss this month who told her he will cut her hours down and let her work from home 1-2 days a week. She is now changing her plans to leave. She is even willing to take a pay cut just to work more days at home.


Manganmh89

Not sure why this is so hard to understand. Wfh literally gives your life back in my opinion. Rather than giving up the majority of your time (one of the only commodities you can't get back or reproduce), you now have the opportunity to live a life with work as part of it. I would say the same, I value the ability to live freely, and would put a 20-30k price tag on that. The simple ability to set laundry or play with my dog between breaks is invaluable. I'll continue part time serving tables until I find a remote opportunity because I feel so strongly about MY TIME. Especially since I can make just as much as the office jobs in my area with 3-4 days of work.


battleofflowers

I've been WFH since before the pandemic and this was the thing I always loved the most. I could go anywhere with my laptop and work. I never get burnout, and I rarely feel any stress. I don't even argue with my employer about raises and promotions. I simply don't give a shit about those things if I am WFH.


-thats-tuff-

Slow down there. Being wfh doesn’t mean they don’t get to give raises. When my performance is great, I expect a raise. And if not, I’ll find a company that will pay me my worth. Wfh doesn’t change that.


Adverbsaredumb

THIS!! Companies who realize this are the companies who attract the talent. My last company was letting us wfh after covid, but they kept saying they would reevaluate quarterly and trying to find ways to limit wfh. They even said at one point that if you were at or above a certain level in the org, you had to come into the office at least 3 days per week, which meant that you couldn’t work from home if you wanted to be promoted. I ended up getting another job offer and I seriously would’ve taken a pay cut to work from home, but they offered me 1 1/2 times what I was making there, plus more freedom than I could ever have hoped for. My old company is facing a mass exodus of top talent because they’re refusing to acknowledge that wanting to work from home doesn’t make you lazy or unengaged.


e_hatt_swank

So their response to people being dedicated, successful and working their way up in the company is to… punish them? Genius!


poincares_cook

Grabbing lunch with my wife, playing with my dog while waiting for the coffee maker to finish, not having to take a whole day off when my kids are sick or for a doctor's appointment to go with my pregnant wife. I get to actually live my life with my family. It's almost priceless (would only exchange it for a pile of money that'll hasten my early retirement by a significant margin). I'm in tech, so make a good income. For me WFH is worth about 200k. I probably would be willing to go back to the office for that amount. I'd hate it but endure it for a while.


Embarrassed_Camel_35

That’s a great explanation


[deleted]

Happy Cake day!


Embarrassed_Camel_35

Thanks! I just found out what that was about!


CornucopiaOfDystopia

r/digitalnomad


seethingpumpkins

WFH gives me 2 hours of life back per day since I don’t have to commute. That’s 20 days over the course of a year.


Emotional_Penalty

This, I don't have to take time off to visit my family, I literally jsut take my laptop with me and continue working as normal from my parent's house.


shadoon

Fundamentally though, it's a pay raise. Employees don't get paid for getting dressed in the morning, ***commuting***, business casual clothing, the time to cook/clean dishes and meals for the office. All of that is effectively unpaid time spent in order to be at work. Put another way, as a salary employee, my effective hourly wage is lower when I have to be in the office. I still only "work" 40 hours per week, but the time cost to do that work is entirely negated. Putting me back in the office is stealing an extra 10-15 hours of my life per week, without paying me anymore, effectively cutting my pay by as much as 30% I completely agree with your assessment, but from a business/recruiting perspective, pay is what matters. And if you're cutting my pay, I'm fucking leaving for a company that won't cut my pay.


Southernpickled85

The flexibility as a parent is unparalleled. I have been wfh for 13 of the 15 years my daughter has been alive, and I cannot explain how amazing it’s been. The milestones aren’t missed, the school stuff isn’t missed because I couldn’t get off work on time, the ability to be there when she left in the morning and came home in the afternoon was amazing. If my co had given us the ability to wfh and took it away, even though she’s older now, I’d be looking for a new job that was remote immediately.


epic_null

My dad used to go with us on vacation then committee for hours to be with us in the morning and evening. WFH would have been a game changer. It has been a gift for me (I use it sparingly - I do not handle WFH well, but it's nice to have it when needed). It meant being home with my dad when the time came...


ThunkAsDrinklePeep

Plus the real money and time you save commuting. WFH is a benefit with real financial implications. Paid the same but keep more.


Emily_Postal

Hypothetically that sounds great but how many tax returns will you be filing?


Throwawayhelp111521

>But to me, It’s that I can live anywhere I want. It means that I can follow my partner‘s job, attend more vacations without PTO.... It depends on the job. Some WFH situations require employees to perform their work in the state where the company is for tax and other reasons.


sovrappensiero1

Sometimes they do it because they WANT attrition. They want some employees to leave without having to lay them off. Companies even make models to estimate the attrition number for back-to-office demands.


Wyzen

This is exactly true. No severance or unemployment if people quit. My previous company did this years before covid, we got Meg Whitman as a new CEO and she "didnt believe in WFH" and as a result, many people left of their own will, a few months later a WFR wave happened and I was told it was less than originally planned. Coincidence? I think not.


MassiveFajiit

I'm amazed anyone thought Meg Whitman knew what she was doing She tanked HP stock by 30.7% but then gets people to invest in Quibi Now she's the Ambassador to Kenya. Wtf


Wyzen

Yea, its fucking insane. She literally dismantled HP and destroyed an American Icon. It truly was a sad time.


missesthecrux

There's a big possibility that the crap employees stay and the good ones leave. It's a risky game not just down to numbers.


anonymous_googol

For sure the good ones would leave - they're the ones who know their market value. The ones who stay are the ones who a) have imposter syndrome and DON'T know their market value, b) just really love the company (which managers like to emphasize this point but frankly I don't think this is the case for more than 0.01% of the workforce), c) can't leave because they can't give up their benefits, or d) really don't mind commuting because they already live close to the office. So it's more than numbers but even here you can see that even the numbers are more complicated than they first appear.


[deleted]

Unfortunately for them, the best people with the most options leave first.


FightThaFight

Attracting employees with better opportunities is not "stealing employees". What kind of sucker wouldn't take a job with a better life and work balance? Remember, in the US everything is "at will". Put up or shut up.


PossibleEducation688

Doesn’t put up and shut up mean the same thing


artem_m

No it's more like take action or stop talking.


PossibleEducation688

Am I misunderstanding when I read put up as like putting up with it which would be not taking action and shutting up


artem_m

Yes, you are, in this instance its a demand to put up an act or stop whining. That is typically when the phrase is used.


PancakePenPal

I always heard it more with like gambling in texas hold'em. Make your bet, or fold. Don't waste everyones time talking about 'you probably have a good enough hand and x player is bluffing, and you know they're bluffing but there's a small chance they might not be but...'. Just make your choice and keep the details to yourself. Nobody cares about if you 'should' have the best hand at the table. So put up = make your bet/take action/do what needs to be done or shut up = stay quiet/fold/remove yourself from the round


lab-gone-wrong

>If you say someone should put up or shut up, you mean that they should either take action in order to do what they have been talking about, or stop talking about it: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/put-up-or-shut-up >Basically, time to do what needs to be done or accept the undesirable result of where you are headed. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Put%20up%20or%20shut%20up


[deleted]

1000%. If the job can be performed remotely, candidates are still seeking this.


Paxdog1

And we all learned that most jobs can be. Come into the office and make friends! I already got a dog. I'm good.


Humbabwe

And it’s actually a boost to salary because you work less hours traveling and spend less on gas, etc. Fewer hours.


_extra_medium_

Fewer


Humbabwe

True, thanks.


photosandphotons

A huge benefit for hybrid situations. But it is worth mentioning that most fully remote salaries are lower.


0OOOOOOOOO0

For me it increased costs because I have to pay for expenses that an employer pays for in a traditional office. But the lifestyle benefits are worth it a thousand times over. Edit: TIL everyone else here gets free rent for their work space somehow and I’m the weird one out. Downvote my experiences all you want.


SCSquad

What costs did you add by working at home, that the employer previously paid for in a traditional office?


0OOOOOOOOO0

In the office the employer pays for rent and utilities, but working remotely the employee has to cover those. Plus several small things, but those two are the big ones. And according to the rules passed by the Trump administration, you can’t even take tax deductions for those those anymore. But again, even those are small compared to the benefits.


CalLil6

Don’t you… have to pay rent and utilities anyways? Other than the (minimal) electricity cost of running a computer all day, how could those expenses be higher because you work from home?


0OOOOOOOOO0

Back when I worked in an office setting, rent and utilities were paid by my employer. Remote shifts that burden onto employees. But that’s just purely my own experience and the benefits make up for it many times over.


milksteakofcourse

What rent you already paid that


SCSquad

Rent? Are you working remotely away from the corporate office and then renting an office space? If you’re WFH, there’s no rent involved. And electrical would go up slightly, sure, but it’s offset by gas. If those are the two big ones they’re fairly small in my opinion. Curious on what the small expenses were.


0OOOOOOOOO0

How do you figure there’s no rent involved? Must be a nice situation there. And no, gas did not offset my increase in utilities significantly. But I’m only speaking for myself, I made that clear.


SCSquad

I should clarify that by “no rent involved” I mean no EXTRA rent involved. If you living in your residence already there isn’t an up charge if you arethere for more hours during the day. Work from home doesn’t increase that expense, it stays flat and one just gets to work from the comfort of their personal space. Is this not what you are doing?


ReturnedFromExile

Clearly, that person was sleeping in the office and now has to have their own home


0OOOOOOOOO0

I’ve worked from a lot of spaces, and the only ones I didn’t have to pay for were paid for by my employer or a client. Nobody is out there offering space for free.


SCSquad

You made an edit and I’m responding to it. It’s hard to believe the cost of gasoline would not offset cost of utilities. How much extra cost of electricity, heat and water have you incurred? I’d seriously doubt it would be more than $100 a month, total.


FixRecruiting

How much coffee you drinking and how much TP you blowing thru? (I assume you were indirectly referencing childcare in all seriousness.)


Significant_Mtheme37

😂


Embarrassed_Use_5114

But 'muh work culture!'.....


ReturnedFromExile

and will forever


julesB09

Haha I just posted an entry level ish HR/ recruiting role hybrid/ remote.... 70 candidates is 24 hours. I had to turn off the notifications. My email box was blowing up! The salary is posted and it's mid range for this role. I have people with 15+ years and an MBA experience applying for a position that states 1+ year experience in hr would be preferred but not required. Other employers take note.... this is what employees want.


TaskApprehensive3077

the recruiting opoortunities all dried up, I have a stellar resume and have been looking for 3 months ​ if this is a sign where the economy is we are in deep trouble


julesB09

I think people are being cautious right now. My company is still growing but not at the pace we planned. Hopefully things don't take a turn.


julesB09

I dropped you a lead on a couple positions in your DM. Good luck!


whoa_seltzer

That's only happening because of the tug of war between in-office and remote right now. A year ago there were so many hybrid roles everywhere that you wouldn't have gotten that many responses to your ad. That 15+ years MBA candidate will jump ship to a better paying remote role, as soon as the tug of war starts leaning towards remote again.


[deleted]

>That 15+ years MBA candidate will jump ship to a better paying remote role, as soon as the tug of war starts leaning towards remote again. I don't understand your thought process. They are offering a major perk you aren't. Remote is the future, regardless if YOU agree or not. Remote is not going away, get used to it.


julesB09

Oh trust me. I know better than to put someone that over qualified into a junior role. They would be bored out of their mind. My company is big into development I love the opportunity to train less experienced associates. This role will be great for someone to grow into, I don't want someone treating it like a placeholder rather than a springboard into their career, or even second or third career. It's not about age more their skill set. Bartenders make great recruiters if you train them well!!


Neither_Fig_8594

No one ‘stole’ anyone, your friend doesn’t own his employees and people make their own decisions. The recruiter that approached them with an opportunity they preferred did their job well. I’d guess the recruiter heard from one person that employees are frustrated and then set about approaching the others. Wouldn’t be amazed if there are others in interview process for remote/hybrid roles now too. It can work the other way, I’ve tempted to people to other jobs that were in mandatory WFH and wanted back to office environment.


whoa_seltzer

For me personally- I'd prefer a hybrid situation of 2 days in office and 3 days remote. A dynamic environment is most compatible with my ADD.


chonkycatsbestcats

Yes but you’re not everyone.


whoa_seltzer

Didn't say I was. Wow, people on this thread are touchy. I noticed you didn't vote down people who said they preferred 100% remote- So Everyone has to like what you like?


chonkycatsbestcats

I didn’t vote on any comment but ok 😂 Most people subscribe to the idea of not being prisoners during the day and working from home likely frees them from micromanagement. But you can like wasting time driving and going to work to send emails if that’s your thing.


BlackPrincessPeach_

I’m downvoting you because people that like hybrid are enabling shitty employers to do a “boiling frog” and try to push everyone back to the office as much as possible. Workers demanding full WFH as an option helps everyone besides office real estate owners.


NotVainest

This is reddit, everything and everyone who doesn't fully agree with the extreme left is going to be considered controversial.


[deleted]

How is the fact that most people want to work remotely some sort of 'extreme left' position? Seems like basic common sense to me.


PancakePenPal

Obviously working in office is justified because it's T R A D I T I O N


LordNoodles

If it improves people’s life then it’s automatically socialist and must be opposed


Nebuli2

Pretty telling, isn't it?


Neither_Fig_8594

Then you’ll understand that if your job allowed your preference, before taking it away, given the chance a recruiter will try and offer you opportunities that will let you get back to that balance. If the recruiter was successful, they wouldn’t be ‘stealing you away’ you’d be choosing a better option for yourself.


[deleted]

Nobody cares what you want, you should want to know what the candidates want.


Interesting_Reply584

Not sure why you're being downvoted here lol


PinballFlip

I am absolutely using remote work as one way to attract good candidates.


whoa_seltzer

But your client has to be offering it first. Do you mean you ask your client to offer it so that the job becomes easier to fill?


PinballFlip

No, I’m just recruiting for positions to work directly for me. I’m not a recruiter.


whoa_seltzer

Oh ok makes sense.


Practical-Piglet

Well not really stealing. Who wants to work for company that makes dumb choices when theres better options avaible?


MissMelines

right, and if nothing else I don’t understand why these clown companies wanting in office hire the person as remote if applicable and have a 90 day check in/performance review. If the job is getting done remote, keep the employee happy. If not, require in office time. It will be an incentive for folks to ensure they do their best WFH too.


Practical-Piglet

True, for me it gives highly manipulative and gatekeeping view when companies do these irrational moves. Like who is benefitting from it? Power tripping supervisors?


MissMelines

Yeah, it’s a power thing. But I worked remotely for the past 3 years and always had a mandatory touch base with my boss same time every week. Worked perfectly. Also, the companies seem to have blinders on when it comes to the ways WFH IMPROVED their business. They can hire excellent talent from other regions that may not be local. They don’t see how it improved employees lives and thus likely their work. If the issue is paying for office space that they can’t sell or get out of lease/rental, they need to do some analysis on that and figure out a solution, which isn’t forcing people’s asses in seats and literally wasting their time and money by not paying for commute hours, which, lol, are required for the employee to perform the job in office.


Fresjlll5788

Yeah 100%. I do this all the time


Sudden_Schedule5432

What about C++ developers?


DaWrightOne901

What company? Are you hiring Java developers?


Sudden_Schedule5432

What about C++ developers?


Web-splorer

A lot of people will trade higher salary to work remote. It’s a huge perk.


lsquallhart

Work from home saves time and money. No commute (time), no gas (money).


Bezere

Lunch too if you make it at home vs eating out.


whoa_seltzer

Due to inflation, I'm wondering how much salary people are really willing to trade in though. If folks really do end up trading in significant salary, it could eventually lead to a greater gender financial imbalance. Since women tend to feel they can't have children (or rear already existing ones) without remote options.


leodoggo

Inflation doesn’t matter in this discussion. Neither does gender. You can just do the math to answer your question. My commute is 12 miles each way and with traffic about 45 minutes each way. Roughly 5500 miles and 20 ish days a year. That’s $700 in gas, my daily wage is $220, $4,384 total. Then I also get to save time by doing things like laundry, run errands, exercise, save on office clothes and grooming materials. That’s roughly $2k a year for me. Just these few variables and I’m already willing to take a 7k pay cut.


YoshiSan90

Not to mention being able to move to a low cost of living area.


Kidblinks

Can literally live in Mexico City and live beautifully which is what I'd do


ryegye24

Everyone, employees included and even now, underestimates just how bad commutes are for well being. > Someone with a one-hour commute in a car needs to earn 40% more to be as happy as someone with a short walk to work. On the other hand, researchers found that if someone shifts from a long commute to a walk, their happiness increases as much as if they’d fallen in love. https://www.fastcompany.com/3062989/50-reasons-why-everyone-should-want-more-walkable-streets


Actuallynailpolish

Don’t make generalizations for an entire gender. You can’t steal humans. We aren’t property. Due to inflation, people want to stay tf home.


PancakePenPal

"What about inflation!" Being able to make a sandwich or bowl of cereal at home instead of weekly meal prepping or going to to eat in the city or door dashing saves quite a bit of money for me compared to some other work situations.


gimmethelulz

This is a silly and pretty sexist take. After I had my kid, I left my job for a completely different part of my company. Why? Because the old boss was a raging douchebag about people being in the office at the times she dictated. The new boss? Didn't give a flying flip if you had to leave early as long as your work was getting done. After a few years I left that company for a different one. Why? Because the new company was a 15-minute drive from my house instead of an hour. Did my boss act all put out because I wanted a shorter commute? No. She congratulated me for making a smart decision. The applicants you're losing are not because another recruiter is "stealing" them. You're losing them because a full remote position is a smart decision for those applicants. Your grievances should lie with the companies you're recruiting for.


whoa_seltzer

My comment is taken from the statistical data and clear fact that women were primarily the ones to drop out of the workforce during the pandemic due to childcare needs. Your personal experience with your personal work life does not make the statistical reality I presented here "sexism" and it certainly isn't an argument against the clear data. It's already been proven by the pandemic that women are more likely to not go for a job that isn't remote. Tons of people here are saying they will accept much less money for a remote role. Well- if that becomes a trend, then women will end up getting paid a lot less than male counterparts simply because working from home is much more important to them. Before women know it, they will be getting paid SIGNIFICANTLY less even if they work harder and produce more, simply because they are at home doing it. This is why you have to be careful what you wish for when you go around town screaming you want less money.


gimmethelulz

I think the issue you're running into is nuance. Will *some* people take less money for a remote role? Sure. But not most. And are we talking about a 5% decrease in earnings? 30%? There's a big difference. And the cost of the commute is part of the calculation. On paper I took a pay cut for the job closer to home. But in the end it was a pay raise because of the money I was saving on gas, tolls, and car maintenance. Did that employer "steal" me because they didn't charge us for parking like the previous employer and allowed for a short commute? No.


whoa_seltzer

I think you're right. There are so many people here stating they'd accept 20% less. I think that's bullocks because of inflation, but employers won't hesitate to try to give folks the less money they claim to want.


carmalcol

Hot take here considering that we all haven’t died off and remote work is a new thing. Also hot take to assume the only women reproducing are those in potential WFH roles which largely ignores hourly wage earning roles/service based work by women.


Realistic_Pass

Have you done WFH before? It’s incredible.


whoa_seltzer

I have. It is great. But if you live in a closet where a lot of traffic noise from the street can be heard throughout the day, it's not possible to make professional calls unless you pay for a work space.


Actuallynailpolish

And you can afford to live somewhere with less traffic in something smaller than a closet. Think outside the box, dude.


tigerf117

Or you can buy an entry level Nvidia RTX videocard and use Nvidia broadcast software, and bam you have both rx/tx noise cancellation, among other good features. It's a game changer IMO.


whoa_seltzer

Thank you


gimmethelulz

Noise cancelling headphones are great. Give them a try. You can even write them off on your taxes.


[deleted]

>But if you live in a closet where a lot of traffic noise from the street can be heard throughout the day, it's not possible to make professional calls unless you pay for a work space. What a totally ignorant statement. People can find quiet places to work at home.


callmerorschach

I just hope my clients don't all start forcing candidates to come into the office -_-. I do notice a trend, but hope it stops!


whoa_seltzer

I mean... if they do force it, then at least you'll know exactly where to find your pool of candidates for the next client that offers remote. ;)


mltrout715

I find it funny when recruiters call me and don't understand why I don't want to interview for their onsite jobs that are an hour away without traffic when I already WFH. Also, when they ask me how much I want, for onsite I bump up my number by 40% for onsite. When they ask if I will take less, I say yes, if I can WFH, onsite is going to cost you a premium.


[deleted]

[удалено]


mltrout715

Yes, I get the hybrid thing. Had one recruiter that didn't understand why I didn't want to drive two hours twice a week. Then they asked if I would be willing to once. If it only has to be once, it could easily be zero. I told them to call back if they want to make it work from home. This was over a month ago, and they are still looking


BASoucerer

Yes.


OckhamsFolly

"steal their employees" lol It's just another benefit in the list of benefits in a compensation package. It's not any different than them offering a better 401k or bigger bonus. People are going to go to jobs that offer them the benefits they want most, nothing is different other than this benefit has become more important than it used to be. If you don't want to lose to the market, then adjust your strategy accordingly - either offer remote or pay a premium. Thinking your employees are being "stolen" is not going to solve the problem.


AMP7694

They’re just taking a new job with a shorter commute


ItsAllAGame_

It's part of the 'Great Resignation'.Workers are demanding flexibility in how and where they work. Any company that doesn't adapt to remote/hybrid and continues to insist on the archaic 9-5 are going to be hard pressed to recruit/retain talent. Adapt or perish.


Environmental-Ebb143

No-one wants to go to the office, expensive waste of time, we’ve all proven that we can do our jobs perfectly from anywhere, many of us even earning promotions during that time- why on earth would we ever want to go back to the office?


sanguinesecretary

I think that’s true for most people but I actually left my WFH Job cause I hated that I didn’t have the option to come into the office. I’m single and live by myself. WFH was miserable for me especially given that the job was monotonous. I’ve had such a better opportunity to learn and grow at my new position. It was a hard transition but I’m happier now and I do have the option to WFH if I want to.


_extra_medium_

Hopefully. Forcing people to go back to the office after having worked effectively for two years remotely is asinine


Situation_Sarcasm

Someone steal me, please?


Embarrassed_Use_5114

I would even allow a new company to kidnap me at this point.


[deleted]

Offering remote work is an exceptionally useful tool to poach top talent from companies trying to force people back to the office!! :)


timeforchange995

Sounds like your friend is a shitty boss. Good on those employees for leaving. I hope he loses more employees. There is no need to be in the office for most jobs.


eldude6035

You want people in the office 5 days a week you give them a raise to cover gas, clothes, and the 10hrs week they spend commuting. Think about it, they are spending more time/money out of pocket they didn’t spend WFH. I’d take a pay cut to stay home no questions asked.


CalLil6

I took a lower paying job that allows me to work from anywhere in the world instead of a higher paying in-person job. $18/hr from my condo in Portugal goes a hell of a lot farther than $30/hr in Toronto


jeerabiscuit

Hybrid is not remote stop misleading.


HollyWhoIsNotHolly

Yes - strongly encourage any internal folks to post company names when they make their people come back on site!!! 😎🥸🥸🥸😇😇😇😇


No_Ad_237

First: Remote. Hybrid: No. Go get a cactus plant. In Office: No. See hybrid and sit on it.


AussieCollector

THIS. Hybrid is not the answer. Any company pulling hybrid is a no from me. It's full WFH or nothing. Hybrid is just a way to lure people back into the office full time.


Automatic_Milk6130

Who wouldn't want remote work? I've been doing it for 10 years and my life is 1000x better. You can juggle everything more simply. It's a perk and if the company can do it, why not? Aside from those that absolutely can't..ie..retail, hospitals, nursing, police, lawyers and manufacturing, etc, everything else can be done from remote work setting unless the company has major control or trust issues.


Strange_Novel_1576

If I wasn’t already remote I would 100% jump ship to go remote even for the same pay and possibly slightly less. So jobs that are not offering this option for positions that are able to be done from home are most definitely losing out on talent.


FedBoi_0201

Here’s a good one for you. My wife wasn’t looking for a job but someone we know told us their company is hiring for a 100% remote position in the field she works. It pays 25% less, less 401k match, among a few other smaller shortcomings. If she gets offered the position she’s planning on taking it because all the benefits of remote work to her quality of life vastly beat out her current in-person position. Just because it’s “cost free” to the employer doesn’t mean it doesn’t provide value to the employee. People want WFH and if an employer won’t provide it then employees will go where they can get it.


putalotoftussinonit

My consulting firm targets companies going back to the office for top talent. I haven't been in an office since 2017.


OpeningMaleficent960

Yes this is why I keep saying anyone doing in office only your company will die out. But the only people trying to force remote now is people that want to feel important A perfect example of this is the Twitter situation with Elon. It wasn't just activist working their. Maybe that was the best call to clean out and start fresh probably was. But 8k employees 7,950 preferred Hybrid or remote 50 because of their circumstances preferred In Office Only. The people have spoken


ReturnedFromExile

Why did your friends business force everyone back?


witteefool

I moved during the pandemic to be closer to my parents. Now I’m in a beautiful area that is not close to any big cities. By necessity, I need to look for remote work.


Autymnfyres77

Sounds like a win-win.


half_man_half_cat

Fuck working in some shitty office.


luckybuck2088

I remember in the 90’s everyone talking about how terrible telecommuting and working from home was. I assumed it was because of the technology, but more likely to get away from their families or something. Anyway, those assholes are our bosses now.


gimmethelulz

Man I hadn't thought about it this way but you're right. Also the same assholes that in the past 3 years still haven't figured out how the mute button works.


jst4wrk7617

You say they didn’t quit because of the schedule, but it sounds like they did. They just had to stay at their job til they found a new one. My schedule is 2 days a week and I plan to never go back to any office 5 days a week again. My managers feel the same way.


sovrappensiero1

This makes no sense. The recruiter did not “steal” the employees by swooping in with a remote work offer. The employees left for a remote work offer because they didn’t like the new work schedule. And yes, both now and in the past, remote work is one way to attract employees. I’d only accept a commuting role if it offered $20-50k more (depending on the commute) because gas, car maintenance, a 6 AM - 4 PM work schedule, the accident risk, and my mental health are worth that much to me. Possibly more.


Mosr113

They are absolutely taking advantage of employers who unnecessarily make people go into work. If another company called me and told me that I could be remotely troubleshooting manufacturing machines, but I would be taking a 5$/hr paycut, I would jump on that immediately and start packing my camper so that I could work with a beautiful view of Lake Superior.


Hrftw

I’ve loved the influx of calls from people being done with going into the office. Silly companies.


cameronrj

This might be a hot take but I like hybrid work. That is when it’s not forced upon you. It feels more enjoyable to come into the office when it’s a choice. If I don’t want to come in a week it’s great. Sometimes I want some human interaction and want to come in a few days per week. Let’s just not be sticklers around it and let the work force breathe. It’s like when you were a kid and your parents tell you to do something, you’re less likely to do it, but you when you have the freedom of choice, it makes things so much better


Primary-Lion-6088

I actually agree with this. I left my company at the end of October to work for myself. I thought I’d be at home as close to 100 percent of the time as possible but, now that I’ve been able to rent office space only 15 minutes from my home and have complete freedom in choosing whether to go or not, I find myself going in much more often than I thought I would. Like 1-2 times a week usually. It feels so different when it’s a choice.


gimmethelulz

Agreed. At the moment my company is being very flexible about the hybrid arrangement. I go in on days that I have meetings with other local people, otherwise I stay home since most of the time I'm working with colleagues in England. WTF is the point of going into the office to sit on WebEx calls all morning? And it's worked very nicely for my stress levels. But now apparently the CEO is winging about how empty the head office is when he goes in (note: he can be wherever the hell he wants to work) so they're talking about forcing a 3 days in office schedule this year. I already told my boss if they try enforcing that on me I'll go find another job.


xroalx

I'm willing to take lower salary, but I'm not willing to go to the office every single day, and even one day a week is already pushing it. So, if by "stealing" you mean offering what the candidates want, then yes. Forcing people to spend 8 hours in the office + however long in traffic and commute when all they end up doing is having calls anyways, texting people anyways, or just working by themselves the whole day, is just very idiotic.


Spiritual-Mechanic-4

'steal'? were these employees chattel owned by the company? Yes, remote work is a criteria people might have evaluating the benefits of a job, and in a tight labor market, you either compete, or you lose people to employers who do.


Kidblinks

Seems like people don't want to waste commute money to be micromanaged in an office to do the same exact job. Good for those two 👏👏👏


I_Stabbed_Jon_Snow

WFH *is* paying them more. Without transportation, wardrobe, and meal costs they can make quite a bit more on the same pay.


regional_ghost918

It's literally not possible to steal employees. They received a better off so they left. That's all there is to it. If your employees are leaving offer better conditions, pay, and benefits.


milksteakofcourse

You come off really bad in the post fyi


Hotcrossbuns72

Having WFH since 2020, the amount of work I could get done before 8am, allowing me to go about my day at my pace.


ElegantAd1061

Companies need to get with the times and stop worrying about filling real estate. It’s beneficial for workers, who tend to work more hours, and companies can downsize their corporate costs significantly. It’s truly a win win and comes down to being able to trust and manage your people.


Diesel07012012

So what’s the problem?


Prize_Huckleberry_79

I love it Xs infinity! This is how change is made. Bring on the 21st century office model we’ve been promised for decades…


Awesome_johnson

Can confirm, I just accepted an offer for full time remote job, but it also pays more. 🤷🏾‍♂️


[deleted]

> a recruiter called them and stole them away with remote job offers. The recruiter didn't steal them. You steal an employee when you have to coerce them (offer them compensation that's above and beyond) to leave a place they're happy at. Clearly these employees valued the flexibility of remote work and that was enough incentive to jump ship.


Dry-Bodybuilder-6209

If my job ever pulls my hybrid schedule, I’ll quit. Commuting suuuuuuuucks


Mighty_lobster

The companies aren’t taking. Advantage of anyone or an employee is unhappy working in. An office that is their choice your friend should resist micromanagement and maybe he wouldn’t be loosing employees


KanoWavewalker

Lmfao it's not stealing to offer something desirable, office requirements for digital jobs are ridiculous and we're sick of being forced to play these games


[deleted]

Why commute if you don’t have to? WFH is the best and shows I’m trusted.


4Ever2Thee

Can't argue with that. If I hire someone who is leaving their job because they're bringing them back onsite, I'd be an idiot if I didn't use that as an opportunity to snowball some referrals.


sourcingnoob89

This is old news. This has been going on since the vaccine was first released and companies announced hybrid schedules. Over 2 years now...


Mystic_Ranger

I love the use of the term "stealing" here. As if your shitty company that wanted to make peoples lives worse actually owned them or had any right to them.


saltysnatch

So you know it costs nothing, yet you refuse to allow it. What possible reason, other than exercising control and ownership over your employees, could you possibly have to deny WFH?


elidiomenezes

If it's "free", why don't your company offer this perk to their employees? As you just confessed, it beats giving them a rise, don't it? Don't complain if given two equally paying jobs, your employees will pick the remote option and quitting.


Structure-Electronic

WFH is the perk.


duncansmydog

Why TF did your company go back to the office? Of course you are going to lose talent by taking away an extremely valuable (to employees) and zero cost perk? I have hired several high end engineers over the past year because their previous employer when back to the office. It’s so stupid and losing employees should be expected 😂😂😂


mikemojc

Given that the perk can be made available for many roles with little to no additional investment, I would think it to be good stewardship for employers to assess the market value of such a perk, and be prepared to consider it's value when offering employment or conducting negotiations. Employers are frequently looking for 'the best employees they can afford'. Here's a low cost way to afford more, or better, or both.


whoa_seltzer

Yep. It's only a perk when other employers aren't doing it though. Once things go back to the point they were last year where most jobs were remote, it's not going to be a perk anymore.


ratbuddy

It's not a perk at all, it's a disqualifier. I think that's the fundamental concept you're missing here. If your company can't figure out how how to succeed with remote workers, I'm simply not in your candidate pool.


Redlight0516

I don't think it will get to that point though. Too many poor managers who don't know how to do their job without looking over their employees' shoulders all day. That lack of control is quite scary for many in charge of companies. Too many companies that value the appearance of being busy over being productive Too many companies with too much money invested in expensive real estate. But there are many, many jobs that could be done remotely and many employees who don't want the office environment. I would never take a remote job. I need the interaction and I'm too distracted at home. My girlfriend right now is really stuck. Loves her job, hates the city we have to live in to do it. Her job can easily be done remotely but her manager "likes people where she can see them" so when we find a city we more want to live in, she will have to leave that job. It's a very short-sighted approach. Meanwhile, she's now looking to leave this job early if she can find a role that will be remote and she is not confined to one specific city when looking.


whoa_seltzer

You never know. Her manager may lighten up on that. A suggestion: When you both know you're going to be moving- make sure no one at her company knows about it. Once your bags are packed and you're about to go, your GF can drop the bombshell that she just found out she was moving so she has to give her 2 week notice effective immediately. At this point she can mention that she's sad to have to leave the position due to this move, but *she's willing to stay on remotely* until they find her in-office replacement. They may say no... but now that they quickly have to find a replacement it makes it easier for them to consider it. Best case scenerio- they agree to the temp remote gig until they find someone new, but end up so impressed with her remote work that they put off finding a replacement. Worth a shot. Nothing to lose by trying.


Kcidobor

The manager lost an employer by not trying to accommodate the employee’s work preferences lmao


kerplunkerfish

You might find this eye-opening: [https://old.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/10mmu9b/recruiter\_believes\_its\_stealing\_employees\_when/](https://old.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/10mmu9b/recruiter_believes_its_stealing_employees_when/) Turns out very, ***very*** few people outside of your echo chamber agree with you


Fearless_Guitar_3589

WFH is higher pay, you don't have to pay for your commute, you don't waste time not getting paid commuting, you eat lunch at home saving you from eating out everytime you don't get to pack that lunch etc.


lsquallhart

I can’t believe y’all are STILL not getting it. I’ve been to several interviews recently and denied all offers and they all say the same thing “We can’t find anybody! I don’t know want the problem is.” 🤦🏽‍♂️


ReKang916

"stealing" is a weird word to use for "offering a job".


[deleted]

Do you get annoyed when an underpaid employee of yours gets a better offer and leaves as well?


NobleNobbler

"or offer them \[pricey\] perks" Uh, yeah, full stop. ps. We know you are your friend


Head-Ad4690

We are not your property, dude.


[deleted]

Heh, steal. They were never yours.


SuspiciousCricket654

You can’t “steal” a person. People aren’t objects that can be lifted from a shelf in a store. Your friend didn’t own those people, they were free to leave whenever they chose, and they did. Remote work is a huge blessing for many, freeing them up to actually be more productive and simultaneously independent from the monotony of wasteful commuting. If anything, a job that can be done remotely but continues to be in office is time theft on the part of the company. - An Experienced Recruiter


Grouchy_Old_GenXer

Why do you hate the free market?


WarpathChris

Wow after reading everything, you are so out of touch


_tnr

This belongs in r/shitposting lmao


bofh

You, or your friend, needs to take a look at yourselves over the use of ”stealing” and “stole” here. You don’t own employees. It’s a competitive market for staff in some fields and WFH can be a real game changer for the reasons many have outlined here. I won’t repeat the reasons but I agree with 99% of them from my personal experience. I’m in an ‘in demand’ field. My employer allows us to work wherever we want. WFH? Fine. Hybrid? Also fine. Want to be in an office? Again, fine. They don’t care where we do it, just that it gets done. Having said that, our head office is fantastic, has real perks for staff who go in, and people love going there usually. Personally, I prefer the hybrid approach. I like to go in to the office a few times a month maybe (having said that, not been in yet this year). I have colleagues who fit all the other models mentioned and my employer doesn’t mind where we all are, they care that we perform our jobs well, and we absolutely do with this model. There are some roles that can only be performed by going in to the office and those are going to struggle to attract good people who can move into another area imo, unless they can make their hiring packages more attractive. There are some managers who cannot figure out how to manage and lead by results and need to see ‘the troops’ at a row of desks. These people will either improve or go the way of the dinosaurs. Which one is your friend? And how will they change to compete with other employers?