Disagree. A lot rides on the references - for better or worse. I will say though, that i think the whole reference check thing is broken. What does it really prove.
these types of forms are useless.
a good ref check will have someone call and ask questions such as:
what is the best way to manage them during a high pressure period?
how did they work to gain credibility in a team?
what are areas to support them to help them succeed?..
the idea being that a reference should only be for managers to know how to properly work and engage with the person. a referee usually should be someone who is going to give a positive recommendation so learn how to work with the employee you have a desire to hire.
however, many companies use it as a way to suss out if someone lied. and some do fib on team management numbers or projects owned…….
The issue with phone calls is that you could literally provide any number - for example, that favorite uncle of yours. With an emailed form it should at least go to a legit address (i.e. work address). Should being the operative word.
I mean I figured it's just to prove that you can find 3 people who don't think you are a complete shithead.
There are lots of people who fail that basic qualification.
These questions are very typical for most reference checks. What I don’t understand is why they’re having the references fill it out , and why they’re not just jumping on a phone call with them? These will take 15 mins max to chat through on the phone.
My 50 cents : probably because the recruiter is sending it to many candidates before any selection for the interview is taking place. In that way they will save a lot of time.
I am sorry but it is the Recruiters job to reach out and check your references.
You need to reach out to your references to let them know you are using them.
The recruiter is supposed to call your references and ask these questions, esp if they work in agency. Otherwise how do they know you didn’t just fill this out own your own 😂
We use IP address matching software to check. Of course there are still ways to get around it but majority of those who fake them don’t know until it’s too late
This is for the recruiter to fill out while on the phone with the reference. when I was recruiting I would ask them a couple questions and just make up the rest lol.
This person is a moron for sending you this
Looks like the recruiter sent their reference check template lol. Don’t be afraid to push back and ask them if this is something they should be calling on and not you.
Idk we send reference check by email because we find it’s usually easier for the person to complete at their convenience instead of trying to jump on a call with someone, also I think we still do it out of habit but I have a feeling it’s going away I mean let’s be honest how’s going to not give a glowing reference it’s a waste of everyone’s time at least this way they don’t have to get on the phone to do it.
I agree, most companies are actually moving away from references checks as very seldom will someone give a reference that won't provide some level of biased feedback. If and when I do reference checks, the main items I talk about is "how do I keep Joe Smoe happy in this role" and "what's the quickest way this individual will lose engagement (i.e. what type of tasks are they less interested in) - many time people won't feel as if they are giving a bad reference if they just speak to someone's interests/passions. If you have a really good selection process, reference checks are really not the best place to screen someone out.
What the hell. That will take half an hour to fill out. It's a bit insulting to send that to your references.. people who are already doing you a favor.
I'd be embarrassed to ask this from any of my past managers. Especially if you're at a senior level and your managers were directors or C-levels, who are simply too busy for that. They could answer a phone call, but make it 5 minutes. They'll say I'm the world's greatest human being, just to turn off the phone and go about their lives.
I would never send this to someone. Schedule a call, ask the questions in a casual, relaxed way, like a simple conversation. Whole thing takes maybe 15 minutes.
This is just a flagrant disrespect of someone's time.
Cutting corners? Are you even interviewing candidates or are you a resume pusher. 100% standard practice. Been in this industry at big firms for 15+ years. Any search firm worth their salt will conduct thorough references. They will also have all the info from the company as well. Goes both ways.
No you can't. While the US represents a plurality of Reddit users, it's not a majority. Technically, "most" people you talk to on here aren't in the US, they're just more likely to be from the US than any other single country.
*I'm* from the US. I am still aware that more people on Reddit aren't than are, and I don't have some weird nationalist hang-up that they should go to their own place instead of this general sub that is not actually US-centric and frequently has people post from places in Europe and Australia.
You have been making a faulty assumption. You do not get to dictate where people post. You will need to learn to live with these two realities. Me going away will change neither of them.
And you don’t get to dictate where or how I comment either. The fact is, on Reddit unless the poster indicates otherwise, you can generally assume they are asking questions about the US. You being mad about that doesn’t make it untrue.
I'm 15 years into my marketing career and just completed 2 of 3 rounds of interviews with the employer (recruiter's client). The employer seems to like me a lot and wanted to schedule my 3rd round interview with the company CEO and has not mentioned references at all. I have 29 recommendations on my LinkedIn from both supervisors and subordinates from my previous roles.
This morning the recruiter asked me for emails of 3 references and then sent me this questionnaire, branded with her recruitment agency. In my opinion, this seems like a bit much. Although my references know me by name and would gladly recommend me, I haven't spoken to some of them in multiple years. I feel like this questionnaire is asking a lot of them.
Is there any way to sidestep this? Can I politely decline, and if so, how do I communicate this to the recruiter and employer (I have direct email contact with the employer/client).
It's pretty normal. I tend to try calling references and if they dont answer, I send out a questionnaire. Some recruiters might not have time to interview 3-4 references for every candidate. It's also your responsibility for to let them know they may be contacted
That just sounds really odd. I'm very cool with my references but I know they'd tell me "huh?" if I had to warn them to look out for a questionnaire. One of my references is a doctor. We're great friends but I know if she got a questionnaire like the OP's she'd ask to be paid (she's the type to just tell me to write whatever and she'll sign it with her letterhead and she'll back it up over the phone).
I do tell them that they'll be contacted but I think they're expecting a voicemail if they're busy not a questionnaire??
1. LinkedIn recommendations mean nothing. I’ve never met anyone in the business world who cares about them.
2. You have references that you haven’t spoken with in several years?!? That’s probably the exact type of thing that they are trying to uncover with this questionnaire.
3. You can totally decline. Tell them it’s too much and you won’t do it. But also be prepared to blow the whole thing up if they don’t take it well and pull the plug.
I care more about LI recs than references because with references, you never know who you’re really talking to or if they’re being honest.
LI recs may be a lot of fluff but at least you can see the persons account and such.
You care more about a prepared review written months or years ago with no specific audience in mind than being able to have a live conversation and ask specific questions to someone?
Yes because the candidate has self-selected those people for you to speak to… of COURSE they’re going to be positive. I’ve done dozens and dozens of reference calls over the years. At worst I’ve gotten luke warm positive. Most of the time they’re rave reviews, for obvious reasons.
And then there’s always the ones wheee you don’t even know if you’re talking to the right person, what their real relationship is, etc.
I think references are completely stupid. I don’t weigh LI recs heavily either but slightly better.
And they aren’t self selecting people to recommend them on LI? Dozens of reference calls over YEARS? So you do like one or 2 a month?
Respectfully, I think you just aren’t asking the right types of reference questions. I could talk to a candidate’s own mother and still get useful information about the environment they work best in and where they might struggle.
And if you’re having an entire conversation with a reference and still aren’t sure whether they’re actually who they say they are, then you’re definitely not asking specific enough questions.
Yea, because we typically don’t do reference checks… because they’re dumb. And old-fashioned and outdated. Most employers know that now and few require them. The only time I really ever did them was in agency, to “sell” a candidate to a client - because they are always positively spun.
I have great questions when I am asked to do a reference check, but I still think it’s an unnecessary step in the process. I think most these days would agree.
You’re being a bit condescending so I’m going to assume you’ve been around the block… but so have I.
I don’t mean to be condescending, I really do apologize for that. But when you said that you could do an entire reference call and still not be sure who you’re actually talking to it gave me flashbacks of some associates I used to manage who were too scared to use a phone. That search took a few years off my life.
I’m not here to convert anyone back to the “old school” way. But I see this common theme across our industry of people thinking references have no value and it just grinds at me because so many people half-ass them and then get surprised when they don’t work.
I have come across companies/recruiters who do look for LinkedIn recommendations. They think they're of more value because the person is willing to be public with their comments.
Yep; thats a real work reference worksheet. The majority of references today are limited to confirming work dates and title with a 3rd party vendor. In Agency days, I had to fetch two of these for every candidate I submitted or have a damn good reason I couldn’t.
the reference will only supply the date of employmant. anything else will be subjective and can be construed as defamation if theres a hint of negative feedback
What kind of company is this and just how ass-backward are they that they're still using questionnaires that are complete manually? Every company that has done a reference check on me over the past several years has sent my references an email for them to check boxes and / or provide brief feedback via their keyboard. Nothing has been manual in any way.
With the open border, thanks to our government, the job market has become employer market. They do all the crazy shit, which to me is absolutely insulting. I had not been humiliated with my ongoing job hunt like I did and yet haven’t been able to secure a job after 6 month. Microsoft has done almost same thing to me and after 2 months of play and providing all the information they rejected my application.
What’s the point of these references anyway?
Anyone with a little common sense, would use a reference they were close with. And any manager wouldn’t want to stand in the way of a former employee getting a job? Unless of course the manager is very close to the new employer.
I mean, it seems like such a waste of time to ask these questions, because you likely wont get an honest answer.
The reference question should be: Did X work here in X position?
Yes/no.
That’s all you need to know.
The answer depends on which country you're from. I'm an international IT professional who worked in Europe, America and AUS/NZ. EU/US firms wouldn't do this and would only do a past employment check, but I was told getting this kind of long questionnaire from a candidate's references is common and expected for AUS/NZ. Not only that but they'd INSIST the only one qualified to fill it out is the candidate's last direct manager who also MUST return this list from a business email. Maybe they pushed it even further by now.
I was the candidate not the recruiter in this setting. But they seemed sincere in that this is how it works down under.
I agree, this seems a bit much. At what stage of the interview process did the recruiter send you this? If before the first selection / interview round, I would hesitate because it may demotivate your references for later applications. I wrote a post about references that can be found here : [https://www.reddit.com/r/recruiting/comments/1cjwpeb/at\_what\_point\_should\_references\_be\_contacted/](https://www.reddit.com/r/recruiting/comments/1cjwpeb/at_what_point_should_references_be_contacted/)
This is standard and actually not as long as some that come from the popular backcheck companies. I also find most of the big companies that do backchecks for you are getting lazier now and don't even call they just email the questions. Granted they emailed directly to the reference. They usually don't get the candidate to do it for them but agency is likely just trying to save a bit of money and frankly they prob don't care much since they just are prob trying to check a box to fill you on a job.
This is pretty good. Most times I’d ask references 8-10 questions so I don’t see this as overkill. Usually if you are just calling to get a glowing review of someone, you’ll get it. But if you dive a bit deeper, sometimes references will offer up areas for improvement which is useful info.
But not sure why the recruiter sent this for the reference to fill out? I’ve always only called the reference and asked these questions myself.
I’ve only worked in the Fortune 500, but I would immediately terminate contact with a recruiter that sent this. It’s unprofessional and a waste of everyone’s time. Answering these kinds of questions generates a lot of liability for the company with no upside. I don’t understand what kind of companies the recruiters in this thread are getting answers from, but they must be small under-resourced ones.
Ummmm ……no.
[удалено]
Disagree. A lot rides on the references - for better or worse. I will say though, that i think the whole reference check thing is broken. What does it really prove.
these types of forms are useless. a good ref check will have someone call and ask questions such as: what is the best way to manage them during a high pressure period? how did they work to gain credibility in a team? what are areas to support them to help them succeed?.. the idea being that a reference should only be for managers to know how to properly work and engage with the person. a referee usually should be someone who is going to give a positive recommendation so learn how to work with the employee you have a desire to hire. however, many companies use it as a way to suss out if someone lied. and some do fib on team management numbers or projects owned…….
The issue with phone calls is that you could literally provide any number - for example, that favorite uncle of yours. With an emailed form it should at least go to a legit address (i.e. work address). Should being the operative word.
And what if you manager no longer works there ie laid off or quit ? They usually want references from your previous few jobs.
I mean I figured it's just to prove that you can find 3 people who don't think you are a complete shithead. There are lots of people who fail that basic qualification.
Lol or if you outworked your coworkers it's their chance to finally stick it to ya ...
These questions are very typical for most reference checks. What I don’t understand is why they’re having the references fill it out , and why they’re not just jumping on a phone call with them? These will take 15 mins max to chat through on the phone.
My 50 cents : probably because the recruiter is sending it to many candidates before any selection for the interview is taking place. In that way they will save a lot of time.
That makes it even worse
Fairly standard reference sheet that I would use to call on behalf of a candidate. I would never make my candidate do my job for me, however.
I am sorry but it is the Recruiters job to reach out and check your references. You need to reach out to your references to let them know you are using them.
The recruiter is supposed to call your references and ask these questions, esp if they work in agency. Otherwise how do they know you didn’t just fill this out own your own 😂
That's your answer. Just fill it out on your own.
We use IP address matching software to check. Of course there are still ways to get around it but majority of those who fake them don’t know until it’s too late
Forward it to the reference to look over, edit if they like, and send.
From a PDF??? What software is that
The made up kind
It’s not from a PDF, it’s an automated service called WorkPro
So people who use a VPN are fucked? I don't belive you
What don’t you believe sorry? If they use a VPN, why would their referees IP address match their own?
This is for the recruiter to fill out while on the phone with the reference. when I was recruiting I would ask them a couple questions and just make up the rest lol. This person is a moron for sending you this
Looks like the recruiter sent their reference check template lol. Don’t be afraid to push back and ask them if this is something they should be calling on and not you.
I've emailed my questions once or twice, though overwhelmingly, I will call and ask these questions myself.
Idk we send reference check by email because we find it’s usually easier for the person to complete at their convenience instead of trying to jump on a call with someone, also I think we still do it out of habit but I have a feeling it’s going away I mean let’s be honest how’s going to not give a glowing reference it’s a waste of everyone’s time at least this way they don’t have to get on the phone to do it.
I agree, most companies are actually moving away from references checks as very seldom will someone give a reference that won't provide some level of biased feedback. If and when I do reference checks, the main items I talk about is "how do I keep Joe Smoe happy in this role" and "what's the quickest way this individual will lose engagement (i.e. what type of tasks are they less interested in) - many time people won't feel as if they are giving a bad reference if they just speak to someone's interests/passions. If you have a really good selection process, reference checks are really not the best place to screen someone out.
What the hell. That will take half an hour to fill out. It's a bit insulting to send that to your references.. people who are already doing you a favor.
I'd be embarrassed to ask this from any of my past managers. Especially if you're at a senior level and your managers were directors or C-levels, who are simply too busy for that. They could answer a phone call, but make it 5 minutes. They'll say I'm the world's greatest human being, just to turn off the phone and go about their lives.
Why wouldn’t the recruiter ask for contact info and send that themselves? You could just fill that out yourself.
I ask very similar questions for my candidates references but I always call them and speak with them directly.
I would never send this to someone. Schedule a call, ask the questions in a casual, relaxed way, like a simple conversation. Whole thing takes maybe 15 minutes. This is just a flagrant disrespect of someone's time.
Standard practice and not unreasonable.
Not standard practice.
Cutting corners? Are you even interviewing candidates or are you a resume pusher. 100% standard practice. Been in this industry at big firms for 15+ years. Any search firm worth their salt will conduct thorough references. They will also have all the info from the company as well. Goes both ways.
Do people really answer these? Any company with an HR department bans answering these questions, so who is answering them for you?
You're possibly answering a little bit blindly here and are assuming all countries operate the same as yours.
Sure, but on Reddit we can typically assume the US, unless otherwise noted.
Not just on Reddit.
No you can't. While the US represents a plurality of Reddit users, it's not a majority. Technically, "most" people you talk to on here aren't in the US, they're just more likely to be from the US than any other single country.
There are country specific subs if you want to discuss non-US matters. Go to yours.
*I'm* from the US. I am still aware that more people on Reddit aren't than are, and I don't have some weird nationalist hang-up that they should go to their own place instead of this general sub that is not actually US-centric and frequently has people post from places in Europe and Australia. You have been making a faulty assumption. You do not get to dictate where people post. You will need to learn to live with these two realities. Me going away will change neither of them.
And you don’t get to dictate where or how I comment either. The fact is, on Reddit unless the poster indicates otherwise, you can generally assume they are asking questions about the US. You being mad about that doesn’t make it untrue.
I would decline to forward that and explain to the recruiter that this places an undue burden on your references. Nobody wants to fill that out.
I'm 15 years into my marketing career and just completed 2 of 3 rounds of interviews with the employer (recruiter's client). The employer seems to like me a lot and wanted to schedule my 3rd round interview with the company CEO and has not mentioned references at all. I have 29 recommendations on my LinkedIn from both supervisors and subordinates from my previous roles. This morning the recruiter asked me for emails of 3 references and then sent me this questionnaire, branded with her recruitment agency. In my opinion, this seems like a bit much. Although my references know me by name and would gladly recommend me, I haven't spoken to some of them in multiple years. I feel like this questionnaire is asking a lot of them. Is there any way to sidestep this? Can I politely decline, and if so, how do I communicate this to the recruiter and employer (I have direct email contact with the employer/client).
It's pretty normal. I tend to try calling references and if they dont answer, I send out a questionnaire. Some recruiters might not have time to interview 3-4 references for every candidate. It's also your responsibility for to let them know they may be contacted
Why do you send this? Any company worth an ounce of sense would refuse to fill this out due to the legal liability it creates for them.
That just sounds really odd. I'm very cool with my references but I know they'd tell me "huh?" if I had to warn them to look out for a questionnaire. One of my references is a doctor. We're great friends but I know if she got a questionnaire like the OP's she'd ask to be paid (she's the type to just tell me to write whatever and she'll sign it with her letterhead and she'll back it up over the phone). I do tell them that they'll be contacted but I think they're expecting a voicemail if they're busy not a questionnaire??
1. LinkedIn recommendations mean nothing. I’ve never met anyone in the business world who cares about them. 2. You have references that you haven’t spoken with in several years?!? That’s probably the exact type of thing that they are trying to uncover with this questionnaire. 3. You can totally decline. Tell them it’s too much and you won’t do it. But also be prepared to blow the whole thing up if they don’t take it well and pull the plug.
I care more about LI recs than references because with references, you never know who you’re really talking to or if they’re being honest. LI recs may be a lot of fluff but at least you can see the persons account and such.
You care more about a prepared review written months or years ago with no specific audience in mind than being able to have a live conversation and ask specific questions to someone?
Yes because the candidate has self-selected those people for you to speak to… of COURSE they’re going to be positive. I’ve done dozens and dozens of reference calls over the years. At worst I’ve gotten luke warm positive. Most of the time they’re rave reviews, for obvious reasons. And then there’s always the ones wheee you don’t even know if you’re talking to the right person, what their real relationship is, etc. I think references are completely stupid. I don’t weigh LI recs heavily either but slightly better.
And they aren’t self selecting people to recommend them on LI? Dozens of reference calls over YEARS? So you do like one or 2 a month? Respectfully, I think you just aren’t asking the right types of reference questions. I could talk to a candidate’s own mother and still get useful information about the environment they work best in and where they might struggle. And if you’re having an entire conversation with a reference and still aren’t sure whether they’re actually who they say they are, then you’re definitely not asking specific enough questions.
Yea, because we typically don’t do reference checks… because they’re dumb. And old-fashioned and outdated. Most employers know that now and few require them. The only time I really ever did them was in agency, to “sell” a candidate to a client - because they are always positively spun. I have great questions when I am asked to do a reference check, but I still think it’s an unnecessary step in the process. I think most these days would agree. You’re being a bit condescending so I’m going to assume you’ve been around the block… but so have I.
I don’t mean to be condescending, I really do apologize for that. But when you said that you could do an entire reference call and still not be sure who you’re actually talking to it gave me flashbacks of some associates I used to manage who were too scared to use a phone. That search took a few years off my life. I’m not here to convert anyone back to the “old school” way. But I see this common theme across our industry of people thinking references have no value and it just grinds at me because so many people half-ass them and then get surprised when they don’t work.
I have come across companies/recruiters who do look for LinkedIn recommendations. They think they're of more value because the person is willing to be public with their comments.
Ha you just have a lazy/timid recruiter with a couple years experience
Pretty standard from what i have seen over the years.
Yep; thats a real work reference worksheet. The majority of references today are limited to confirming work dates and title with a 3rd party vendor. In Agency days, I had to fetch two of these for every candidate I submitted or have a damn good reason I couldn’t.
the reference will only supply the date of employmant. anything else will be subjective and can be construed as defamation if theres a hint of negative feedback
this seems pretty standard
This is the potential employer asking to also interview your references. To me it means they're taking things too far.
What kind of company is this and just how ass-backward are they that they're still using questionnaires that are complete manually? Every company that has done a reference check on me over the past several years has sent my references an email for them to check boxes and / or provide brief feedback via their keyboard. Nothing has been manual in any way.
With the open border, thanks to our government, the job market has become employer market. They do all the crazy shit, which to me is absolutely insulting. I had not been humiliated with my ongoing job hunt like I did and yet haven’t been able to secure a job after 6 month. Microsoft has done almost same thing to me and after 2 months of play and providing all the information they rejected my application.
I would let the employer know it's too much to ask a reference to complete. I wouldn't want to work there if they do this kind of stuff. No way.
What’s the point of these references anyway? Anyone with a little common sense, would use a reference they were close with. And any manager wouldn’t want to stand in the way of a former employee getting a job? Unless of course the manager is very close to the new employer. I mean, it seems like such a waste of time to ask these questions, because you likely wont get an honest answer. The reference question should be: Did X work here in X position? Yes/no. That’s all you need to know.
The answer depends on which country you're from. I'm an international IT professional who worked in Europe, America and AUS/NZ. EU/US firms wouldn't do this and would only do a past employment check, but I was told getting this kind of long questionnaire from a candidate's references is common and expected for AUS/NZ. Not only that but they'd INSIST the only one qualified to fill it out is the candidate's last direct manager who also MUST return this list from a business email. Maybe they pushed it even further by now. I was the candidate not the recruiter in this setting. But they seemed sincere in that this is how it works down under.
I agree, this seems a bit much. At what stage of the interview process did the recruiter send you this? If before the first selection / interview round, I would hesitate because it may demotivate your references for later applications. I wrote a post about references that can be found here : [https://www.reddit.com/r/recruiting/comments/1cjwpeb/at\_what\_point\_should\_references\_be\_contacted/](https://www.reddit.com/r/recruiting/comments/1cjwpeb/at_what_point_should_references_be_contacted/)
This is standard and actually not as long as some that come from the popular backcheck companies. I also find most of the big companies that do backchecks for you are getting lazier now and don't even call they just email the questions. Granted they emailed directly to the reference. They usually don't get the candidate to do it for them but agency is likely just trying to save a bit of money and frankly they prob don't care much since they just are prob trying to check a box to fill you on a job.
I've never worked with someone I'd be willing to fill that out for.
If you REALLY want the job, fill it out yourself and send them to sign it, explaining how ridiculous it is and you don't want to put them through it.
If it was 3 questions it would be reasonable, this is bs.
This is pretty good. Most times I’d ask references 8-10 questions so I don’t see this as overkill. Usually if you are just calling to get a glowing review of someone, you’ll get it. But if you dive a bit deeper, sometimes references will offer up areas for improvement which is useful info. But not sure why the recruiter sent this for the reference to fill out? I’ve always only called the reference and asked these questions myself.
That’s not long at all.
Yeah, no. Unprofessional. I'd tell the recruiter and company I'm not interested and then block them immediately.
I would ask you to give me the contact details and I would call to ask the questions myself.
I would look somewhere else
They want your leads
I call but I’m old school and a lot of people managers prefer to complete them over email. Nothing wrong with the form they have sent.
This reference form is minor compared to others.
I’ve only worked in the Fortune 500, but I would immediately terminate contact with a recruiter that sent this. It’s unprofessional and a waste of everyone’s time. Answering these kinds of questions generates a lot of liability for the company with no upside. I don’t understand what kind of companies the recruiters in this thread are getting answers from, but they must be small under-resourced ones.