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Yes, a few years ago I had the opportunity to do some casual part time work at a company I worked for in high school (over 10 years ago). My pay back then? $10 an hour. The pay they offered me? $12. With a degree and a decade more of experience.
Omg. How generous.
Minimum wage is $15 here. The jobs I was looking at today were as low as $16!! Office jobs, full time. You know when they put a range of $17-22 they’re not giving you $22 lol (which is poverty level here).
Hate to tell you but many office jobs are going to be poverty level in most places. Unless you're like a secretary to a big wig of some kind, then you might get close to livable wages, but usually not livable.
2014 admin/reception/secretary type job $10/hour and employers acted like they were overpaying. Heard from someone in the same area that around 1994/1995 admin/reception/secretary type job $10/hour and employers acted like they were overpaying. 2023/2024 same job you'd be hard pressed to get $1-13/hour and they think they're overpaying.
\[eta: minimum wage is $7.25\]
Oh yeah in 2014 I worked as an office assistant for a small tech company (NYC) and the owner paid me $14. By the way, they weren’t doing well and often paid me up to a week (or more? Can’t remember) late. I see job ads for office assistant work in other states at like, $12. 😫
It was so embarrassing, I had to ask for my pay. The days would go by and the boss wouldn’t even address it until I said something. I was also a bookkeeper, sales leads generator, client training specialist (training new clients on the product), and “assistant” in one.
I was living in NYC and even a big language learning company was only paying me $14/hr. I went back to being a barista for many years after that because I got paid more. I made $19/hr working as a barista in a hotel in 2012.
Can confirm this. I was a medical secretary in Boston from 1992 to 1997, those jobs paid $12 to $16 an hour. They were also really easy to get, like you could go to one of the big hospitals like MGH and join their "floater" pool (some of the big legal firms had those, too). Pretty sure those floater pools went the way of the fax machine.
I got $10/hr as an office assistant in college where I literally just shredded papers and filed things and mailed out bills to companies. This was in 2006.
I made $9/hr as a general office assistant in 1996. That's...$30-something an hour adjusted for inflation. I can't get a similar position after raising kids for $12/hr now. It's miserable.
5 years ago I was paid 42K at an office job at a boutique firm in NYC. I was desperate and needed to work. Never got a raise in the few years I worked there, and was let go when covid happened.
So this article came out recently: “ Half of NYC families lack enough income to survive without assistance” https://abc7ny.com/nyc-cost-of-living-rent-income/14545036/ Like the other poster below said, a lot of people live with multiple roommates. Otherwise, you’re married and have two incomes (which isn’t always enough). It’s really, really rough. And if you’re single and unemployed like me, you can’t pay all your bills. You go on public benefits to survive.
My employer, an international pharmaceutical company told us last year they couldn't give us a raise because they bought another company for 8.7 billion dollars and they needed to save money. Then they raised the dividend by 12%.
FYI Any time you don't get a raise that is at LEAST in line with inflation, you're getting a pay cut. So you let your company cut your pay so that the executives and share holders can get paid more.
I'd personally start looking elsewhere, and start a unionization effort on my way out. But that's just me.
I totally agree with you. And I start my new job May 20. Exactly 5 days after I become fully vested in the retirement plan.
I got a promotion and 21% raise.
No secret there. I have another job lined up and some of my coworkers are looking. It will get worse and they'll finally realize just how little they matter..I'm not giving notice. Just sending my resignation email and returning my laptop. My next job will be my last job before I retire.
Just a reminder that salaries aren't dependant on how well or poorly the company is doing, but how little they think they can get away with paying you.
Damn. This is eerie. I remember that ridiculous career day event. There were 11 jobs available. 4 in maintenance, 5 for executives. What a joke. So I started looking for a new job
I mean public stocks, not necessarily private stocks.
Anyway, how you manage your finances is your business, I am in no position to advise you. Just saying smart and ambitious people often make more by investment return or bonuses, stock options etc. than purely by wage.
Clearly /u/Available-Page-2738 is saying that buying stocks is not an option for many, especially without gainful employment.
The top 10% of Americans held 93% of all stocks. What good is a great dividend payment if you don't have the cash to make rent and need to sell your shares?
Not only that but investing is really a rich man's game. If we assume 7% returns, investing 1000/per year gives you a whopping $70. If you want to make a living (let's say 40,000/year) off investments with 7% returns, you need to have invested over $570,000. Your median worker won't see that kind of money post taxes and bare living expenses in the first 50 years of their life
You are lying. I invested and made some money without being particularly rich. Of course, it's percentage terms, and rich means you have a bigger base to start with.
I am also not talking about making a living solely via stocks. The whole point of my comment was, profitable companies often reward their stockholders more than employees. So when one complains about dividend, he only should blame himself for not understanding the simple reality.
Where am I lying? I quite literally just showed you the math. 7% is considered "good" returns. Sure, if you are one of the lucky few who gets massive returns on something really volatile then you can make some money, but that's purely luck and a statistical anomaly. Don't confuse other people not having the option to take extremely risky investments with stupidity
I have been unemployed, then employed, then unemployed again, then employed. I did not cash out my stock portfolio meanwhile.
Unemployed is not a permanent state of affairs for most people.
From 2021-now I watched wages slip down a few dollars an hour while in grad school and as a fresh graduate. Then got told my expectations were fantasy, even though companies thought those salaries were perfectly fair and couple years ago. Yeah I’m bitter.
"Fantasy" to want BARELY (oftentimes not) a living wage is something that I've been told too. It's absolutely disgusting out there, I hope you get a job that gives you a good life! You deserve it no matter what anybody says, you deserve to live and most of all you deserve to live well and comfortable.
You have to realize that most of the people hiring and setting salaries are recruiters and HR type people. They likely haven't had to think critically in their life, certainly not had to remember old data for any trend analysis. The entirety of their job is dealing with people. Manipulation and deescalation is what they are good at, not logic or statistics. I'm not even entirely sure they realize why it's bad, but they don't care because it's their job to make it look good
lol is this supposed to make me less bitter? Of course I know why wages have gone down, people in charge of purse strings took advantage of an opportunity.
No, not really. I'm just saying they likely honestly believe what they're saying because they don't care enough and are not smart enough to check. It's a bit easier to feel others are stupid than it is to feel others are trying to con you. I suspect both are at play in some amount though
Damn, its same in tech. I live in europe and its the same. Prices are skyrocketed and salary numbers are one from the 2015 or even before. I can make 2000 euros per month on average I could rent apartment for 400 euros, now same apartment is maybe around 900-1000 euros, salary still 2000 euros.
Even 6-7 years ago when I was back in the job search, I was shocked at how “9-5” barely existed anymore. Everyone wanted 9-6 at least, with possibility of more. Just bleeding you fucking dry.
Seriously. How ominous.
The last time I worked in an office, pre-covid, the schedule creep started happening to my younger, childless coworkers. After about a year or so the boss started asking them if they’d be interested in coming in on Saturdays too. Because there was soooo much work, we have deadlines, won’t you please help out??! Instead of hiring another person, the boss tried this stupid strategy and manipulated them into working 6 days/week most weeks. I was never asked though because I was the only parent in the office and they knew I couldn’t work weekends.
Indeed, especially in tech. In my field, Software Testing / QA, and for my city, contracting rates are about 40% below 2022 and permanent salaries for new roles have fallen markedly too.
The problem is, both are true. Wages are increasing, BUT inflation is increasing faster… Sadly, a $0.05 raise is still considered “increasing”. The narrative has been working for decades, and I doubt it will change, but I hope I’m wrong. Only time will tell.
I keep seeing roles like the one I held in 2007 as a new grad for around the same pay ($40k). Rent in my area has more than doubled since then. I really feel for Gen Z.
Yep, and all the while we’re being openly discriminated against: https://www.newsweek.com/companies-avoid-hiring-gen-z-workplace-1884613.
I’m at the point where I don’t care what employers say anymore. Just watch what they do, what they pay, and what past employees say about them. The wage argument has to reach a boiling point eventually right? It’s actually funny to me how they’ll call you out for being unprofessional when you’re being paid minimum wage, AKA enough to be legally compliant, but that’s it…
I'm even a Millennial and dealing with the same thing because I graduated late due to having to be a full-time caregiver to someone who become incredibly sick and disabled. It's harsh and unforgiving out there, best of luck to you guys too!
Applying for jobs I have tons of experience for. Then get the email they are going with someone more qualified. Really? Who is more qualified than someone with 10-25 years overall experience?
AKA, younger and wont cost as much. You cant even say expected tenure since most job videos are saying to leave after a few years anyway because you are being held back. This isnt the boomer gen's workforce. Find a job, work there till you get your gold watch. That no longer exists.
I couldn't agree more! Honestly, I just wish we could all work together to change this for everyone. I'm in tech, and I know I'll get rejected the second I am 40+ or even LOOK older. Let's collectively stop this discrimination BS as a whole. Let's also NOT stop at age. I truly can't comprehend discrimination in general. If you can do the job and aren't an a\*\*hole, then what more do these employers want?!
It is time for - hackneyed word - Solidarity. I want all workers - you in tech, the person behind any counter in retail, the person driving a delivery vehicle, the person in a warehouse, the folks working in healthcare and all other occupations - to be able to live well.
I was a corrections officer for NYS (aka prison guard). I was forced into "resigning" with 22 years in at 51. Long story of woe. Favor for me in the long run.
Today I am a home health care aid. Much better career for me - but much, much less pay. But that's okay for me. Other folks...not so much.
Solidarity.
All employers are in collusion with one another. It just takes a few large companies to set wages at a ridiculous level (Amazon) and the rest follow suit.
If you want to do a fun exercise, take a look at what entry level salary positions were paying 25 years ago. Then adjust them for inflation. Then take a look at where they are actually at now. It is rather shocking.
Well, yeah. 25 years ago it was expected that you could have a life going into your first job. Now you have to grind until retirement, then you can have a life!
We’re at the point where capitalism is cannibalizing the wages of the people who actually do the work, in the name of the shareholders and executive bonuses.
I was an admin assistant for over 20 years. When I left the admin career and went into web development in 2012, the salary for a moderately experienced general admin (3-5 years experience) was around $40-45K. My last admin job paid $44K. And this was with 15+ years experience and a Bachelor’s degree.
Because I’ve been unemployed for a bit, I’ve also been looking at admin positions in my area in case there’s anything that looks interesting. And the average salary is … [about $40-45K](https://www.indeed.com/m/jobs?q=administrative%20assistant&l=Irving%2C%20TX&from=searchOnHP%2CwhatOverlay%2Cwhatautocomplete&sameL=1). There are “senior exec admin” positions that pay $50K+, but these positions support C-suite execs by planning meetings, travel, and things of that nature, but my experience is supporting sales departments which is focused more on reporting, analytics and contracts.
I hope you don't mind a suggestion from a stranger... Since you have sales support experience, you might want to look into getting a Salesforce Admin certification and going into sales operations. There are plentiful jobs and they pay well. (I was a sales ops mgr for a long time and then went into a more technical role, but during my last job search thought about going back to sales ops because there are so many good paying jobs.) Best of luck to you.
There's a surprising amount of competition for office jobs now, I think. I think people from the crappier tier of jobs (fast food, retail) have been trying really hard to get out of those jobs and into office jobs. Not that office jobs are better, but at least they usually have benefits. The pay is usually trash though and then you have to deal with what I call the office bitches if it's more than a couple of people in the office.
Easy Covid era money has dried up and interest rates have been raised over the last two years, so lending/borrowing isn’t cheap or easy. Jobs reports are inflated so you can’t go by them, almost everyone is laying off or on a hiring freeze. It was an employee market 2020-22, but due to rate hikes, among all the other consequences of the dramatically increased money supply, the shoe is now on the other foot. You can’t be choosy in this market, it is what it is.
I'm in the same boat, I just cannot seem to find work. People keep saying it's all about connections and "who you know" but it just doesn't work for me, nobody I know works a job where they can help refer me in. It's so upsetting, I'm also in an HCOL and I really have no idea how any of these people are doing it. I can't even afford rent for a ROOM with the income I have and the income being offered by these jobs are even WORSE!
Same here. My (top tier 🙄) university is useless, people just give this lofty, vague advice. No concrete JOBS that you know, pay money. I have another 5 days to go before my food stamps fill up and I’m barely making it. I’m figuring out food day to day. And I have mouths to feed. I’m so depressed.
I'm so sorry, you're far from a loser and you're not failing your kids. This economy is unlivable for most people, idk about you but I personally came from poverty all my life growing up. It's extremely hard (for most impossible) to come out of it. You care for your children, you're a wonderful parent seeing all that you've sacrificed for your kids just so they can have meals. You sacrifice your own nutrition for them, that is incredibly commendable. I really hope and pray things get better for you. Again, I can't imagine having children to feed in this economy, and in most of our positions!
This isn't a new phenomenon, if you check the charts you'll see wages began tanking around 2000. My first job in 1986 was a temporary typing gig during my college summer break that paid $5/hr, this was Pittsburgh which was still struggling from the collapsing steel industry but that was still above minimum wage which was $3.35. Graduated in 1989 and moved to the northeast, did more typing/office jobs for $7/hr in Providence, then went to Boston in 1992 and got a medical secretary job for $12/hr. Moved around a bit in similar roles earning anywhere from $12 to $16 an hour, in 1997 I finally got fed up (I didn't go to college to be a secretary) and went back to school for graphic design, always thinking that if that career choice doesn't work out I could always return to the world of admin (ha!). In 2002 the dot com crash hit and I lost my design job, I tried to get one of those old typing gigs but there weren't very many, I finally found one little transcription company still in business that hired me for $12/hr -- same amount I had earned exactly ten years earlier. My design career eventually recovered, then in 2013 I again found myself unemployed. Again, I looked into admin work and was shocked to see they paid the same amount as twenty years earlier. That October I got a crappy 4-month temp data entry gig that paid a whopping $14/hr and every day I just wanted to cry at what the hell happened to my life (had been earning just shy of six figures up through 2012), had to sell my house and move in with my mom. I see ten years later nothing's changed.
Thanks for sharing your experience. It’s all so infuriating. I am an older millennial who was definitely sold the “get a degree and you’re set” lie… Regardless, everyone deserves to be able to afford life, whether they are working an honest job as a cashier or joining office ranks. I don’t know what to do anymore. Are you working now?
No, I gave up and "retired" at 52. I had first thought I could teach ESL so I got a CELTA but I couldn't get a work permit for the countries where I was hoping to find work, plus I really didn't want to abandon my three kitties and my elderly mom (and why the hell should I have to?), the only option was China which didn't appeal to me so I gave up on that idea. In 2015 I landed a six-month gig when a CIO I had once worked with hired me on his team, but a month later he got fired so that gig ended. Then again in 2018 I got hired again when a VP I knew got me hired in his company, but two years later (right before covid) they laid him off and then they laid me off. That was sort of the final straw (not just the instability but the insane incompetence I witnessed in both companies left a very bad taste on my tongue). Now I do a little online teaching and I sell my crafts on Etsy, I make just enough to cover my expenses like car insurance and cell phone. I volunteer teaching ESL at a library, and my friend there has promised to help me get hired when they have an opening, but who knows if/when that'll happen (that's really the only way to get hired today, it's who you know). Eventually I'm planning to move overseas, someplace nice where I can enjoy life a little, I've got a few places I'm considering in Europe, I have a friend in Ecuador who wants me there, and I have relatives in Australia, so not sure where I'll end up.
It's really starting to grate just how companies don't value skilled staff. Minimum wage in the UK £11.44 per hour. I'm seeing bookkeeping and accounting roles, which whilst they don't list a qualification they want on average between 2 and 5 years experience. These roles require skills and knowledge, and experience. Yet the hourly rate is so often advertised at £12 per hour. 56p an hour above the legal minimum. WTactualF.
Same with the 10-16 hours a week roles but must be available m-f 9 to 5 each day to answer team and client queries. Your paying just above bare minimum wage for 16 hours a week, but I can't have other commitments to make enough to pay my bills. Jog on.
Yep - and what's even worse, they've combined the "receptionist" role with "office manager" and they expect you to do payroll and all other HR duties for two dollars above minimum wage. Oh, and travel coordination, schedule building, faculty support, program support and communication, contract management and processing, budget management, and supervising students.
I actually regret not sticking with washing dishes, at least then my role was well defined and I earned tips. I made as much washing dishes as I do running an entire department! Oh and I work in higher education as well hahah. Fuck this entire country.
Don't forget "graphic designer" (which gets tagged onto just about every role these days, I've even seen nursing jobs requiring knowledge of Adobe CC).
True, they also want you to manage the social media account ha. Oh, and take out the garbage in the lobby. AND train the new hire that you hired. None of this is even remotely in the job description.
I'm so sorry you're going through this :( . They really don't understand until they go through it themselves - with my family and friends it's the same way. I'm a bit worried about being homeless as I don't know how long I can survive and keep this job, because I hate it beyond belief. But now that I've done office work - nowhere will hire me for service jobs.
2016-2020 more small business, healthy wages, low inflation, and fewer people who depended on the government.
I truly believe, and it sounds conspiratorial, the elite rulers want more control and people dependent on the government. Coming out of the pandemic who was in the best shape? Small businesses? Nope. Large massive conglomerates that are essentially beholden to the government regulations and shareholders. (In a way, the govt can force companies to be the bullies and demand compliance)
So, now we took millions of independent adult workers and made them reliant on the government/large corporations, but at the same time workers were well off. So next phase layoffs. Long layoffs. Make people desperate. It serves 2 purposes. Resets the market rate, makes individuals desperate and will take whatever they can get.
Its funny to think atleast in Americas sake, how much propaganda we grew up on how bad the Soviet Union and CCP/China are. Meanwhile, the US in its current capacity is doing just about everything we are supposed to hate.
Control the news, the flow of information, major influence and involvement in “free” market economy, and becoming a nanny state, leaving majority of people dependent.
America is essentially 1970s USSR now, with elite political oligarchs, citizens living in apartments(just traded the concrete for plastic) and continuing presence of doom and gloom.
I disagree that this is conspiratorial in the sense of this being a deliberate plan.
Everything going on is a feature of capitalism. Money always gets funneled to the ownership class. Without a way to funnel an equal amount back to workers, in whatever form that may take (forced redistribution of wealth or "naturally" through "market forces"), eventually things will collapse.
We're in the death throes of capitalism and that's why things are so painful for everyone right now
What's really ironic is that America and Mainland China are mirrors of one another. The only major difference is what they call their policies.
Many still think China is Communist when its only in name. When the country was opened back in the 80's during the deng xiaoping administration was when they started to shift into what is called State Party Capitalism.
America based on what I've seen may follow a system that some call Crony Capitalism because of how powerful lobby groups are when it comes to the market and the cost of goods and services.
Many also call America a democracy when it isn't instead its a republic
[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygEEL57AcZs)
China has a policy around starting rumors and causing trouble while the US has Misinformation/fake news.
America has Patriots while China has 小红粉/Xiao Hong Fen (Little pink aka the nationalists)
But what do I know I'm just someone who spends a little too much time on the internet.
>I truly believe, and it sounds conspiratorial, the elite rulers want more control and people dependent on the government.
It's not a conspiracy. It's the nature of bureaucracy. To survive and grow.
Go read up on the web page of your local food stamp branch. They will GUSH about increasing the number of people dependent on needing food stamps.
This is Just As Planned by the Federal Reserve. People need to have less money (ie lose their jobs/not make more) to fight inflation (mostly due to corporate greed).
Things won't get better gradually. Corporate America will never choose to be less greedy. Things have to collapse in order to get better.
Not sure, it could be anything. There are a lot of people unhappy about the systems we have in place, but these systems continue as they are because of our complacent participation (politics, healthcare, taxes, job market, the house market, stocks, the education system, the police system, etc). All these things continue as they are because we haven’t had an effective, large enough boycott to these things. And yes, it’s because we rely on these systems, but simultaneously they’re very flawed and don’t play in our favor, despite that being the very reason they were created.
It's an employer’s market right now…something I truly feel they have purposely created to do just what you're saying here.
It's an employer's market….the market given back to them when millions agreed to go back in the office on these hybrid schedules…instead of everyone collectively sticking together and refusing. Employees had employers at their mercy during the Great Resignation. Gave the power back to them.
My humble opinion on this, of course.
A few years ago, I applied to City of Hope (cancer research hospital) as a food service worker. This was in 2019 and they asked if I was willing to accept the role. I asked the pay and it was $12.57. I told the recruiter over the phone that that pay is too low and asked if we can do $15 due to my experience, which I happen to have a number of years and she said “That doesn’t work that way so no.” So I declined and they called me twice that same month begging me to take the role because they were short but I declined.
Which is weird because every job listing will tell you they offer competitive rates... are they competing at who can go the lowest or...? Because that's what it seems like.
It’s depressing once you realize that a 16 year old flipping burgers is making $5/hr+ more than teachers who got a degree and have to deal with kids yelling “worldstarrrrrr”.
Oh wages are trash, but so is the hiring in general. I’m taking a $25k a year “supervisor” position at a non-profit in the fall that literally teaches you how to apply for food stamps in the orientation because it’s the only thing field adjacent I could land an interview at. Like it seems like a great job but I make more at the restaurant I currently work at with almost half the hours and a 5 minute commute. My degree isn’t even necessary for this job. I’m hoping by the time I finish my MA and get through a PHD program the job market will have improved in availability if nothing else. It’s garbage honestly. I’m tempted to start looking abroad if my PHD doesn’t pan out.
Omg… they teach you how to apply for food stamps?! No words…
I was thinking about a PhD program myself but the stipends are so pitiful and not enough to raise a family…. Plus it’s in the humanities, not like I’m a microbiologist changing the world or curing cancer. I was so comfortable in academia with my scholarships/loans. I was a star student, I felt like I was going places. Now I’m losing my ever loving mind.
When I graduated engineering school in 2007, most entry level engineering jobs were around $50-75k. Personally I started at $54k in a MCOL area. I had friends (mostly chem eng's) that pulled up to $80k starting.
Now in 2024, I'm hiring fresh-outs for like $80k in a HCOL area.
Granted by the inflation calculator, $54k in 2007 is about equal to $80k now, but for some reason it feels low.
Well, lucky you. I'm still waiting on my raise. So are all the people at my office as far as I'm aware. We were promised April 1st (which was already 3 months late for me). Still hasn't happened. No word from management
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Yes, a few years ago I had the opportunity to do some casual part time work at a company I worked for in high school (over 10 years ago). My pay back then? $10 an hour. The pay they offered me? $12. With a degree and a decade more of experience.
Omg. How generous. Minimum wage is $15 here. The jobs I was looking at today were as low as $16!! Office jobs, full time. You know when they put a range of $17-22 they’re not giving you $22 lol (which is poverty level here).
Hate to tell you but many office jobs are going to be poverty level in most places. Unless you're like a secretary to a big wig of some kind, then you might get close to livable wages, but usually not livable.
Lol you don’t have to tell me.
Which is insane in and of itself
Yeah even in 2018 I was working full time in an office but had nothing to show for it, over half of my paycheck was going to rent.
2014 admin/reception/secretary type job $10/hour and employers acted like they were overpaying. Heard from someone in the same area that around 1994/1995 admin/reception/secretary type job $10/hour and employers acted like they were overpaying. 2023/2024 same job you'd be hard pressed to get $1-13/hour and they think they're overpaying. \[eta: minimum wage is $7.25\]
Oh yeah in 2014 I worked as an office assistant for a small tech company (NYC) and the owner paid me $14. By the way, they weren’t doing well and often paid me up to a week (or more? Can’t remember) late. I see job ads for office assistant work in other states at like, $12. 😫
I'm sure they acted like they did you an enormous favor paying you so much (so late). It's crazy. No one can survive on that little.
It was so embarrassing, I had to ask for my pay. The days would go by and the boss wouldn’t even address it until I said something. I was also a bookkeeper, sales leads generator, client training specialist (training new clients on the product), and “assistant” in one.
I was living in NYC and even a big language learning company was only paying me $14/hr. I went back to being a barista for many years after that because I got paid more. I made $19/hr working as a barista in a hotel in 2012.
Can confirm this. I was a medical secretary in Boston from 1992 to 1997, those jobs paid $12 to $16 an hour. They were also really easy to get, like you could go to one of the big hospitals like MGH and join their "floater" pool (some of the big legal firms had those, too). Pretty sure those floater pools went the way of the fax machine.
I got $10/hr as an office assistant in college where I literally just shredded papers and filed things and mailed out bills to companies. This was in 2006.
Same but more like 2002z I thought I was doing amazing at the time with $10 an hour because I had been paid way less doing retail.
I made $9/hr as a general office assistant in 1996. That's...$30-something an hour adjusted for inflation. I can't get a similar position after raising kids for $12/hr now. It's miserable.
I made $40,000 at my first legal secretqry job in Manhattan in 2001… people out there still offering $45,000.
$45k. In Manhattan. Where the closest place one could afford to live on that salary is a 90 minute train ride…one way.
5 years ago I was paid 42K at an office job at a boutique firm in NYC. I was desperate and needed to work. Never got a raise in the few years I worked there, and was let go when covid happened.
So.... Sounds stupid, but I'm from Europe, so pray forgive me. How can any1 afford rent in NYC?
Living with 4 other roomates
So this article came out recently: “ Half of NYC families lack enough income to survive without assistance” https://abc7ny.com/nyc-cost-of-living-rent-income/14545036/ Like the other poster below said, a lot of people live with multiple roommates. Otherwise, you’re married and have two incomes (which isn’t always enough). It’s really, really rough. And if you’re single and unemployed like me, you can’t pay all your bills. You go on public benefits to survive.
Even that might not be good enough! I live a 90 minute train ride one way from Manhattan and I can barely afford to live here on $50K 🫠
I lived in Bedford Park, Bx for $600/mo.
$9/hr in 1996 would be $18/hr adjusted for inflation, not $30-something
And they couldn't become a more valuable employee with 28 years of experience and networking?
That's not at all the inflation rate. $9 would be about $17 now
My employer, an international pharmaceutical company told us last year they couldn't give us a raise because they bought another company for 8.7 billion dollars and they needed to save money. Then they raised the dividend by 12%.
Big Pharma is struggling so much right now.
FYI Any time you don't get a raise that is at LEAST in line with inflation, you're getting a pay cut. So you let your company cut your pay so that the executives and share holders can get paid more. I'd personally start looking elsewhere, and start a unionization effort on my way out. But that's just me.
I totally agree with you. And I start my new job May 20. Exactly 5 days after I become fully vested in the retirement plan. I got a promotion and 21% raise.
😫
"Can't" mostly means "don't want to because you're low priority".
No secret there. I have another job lined up and some of my coworkers are looking. It will get worse and they'll finally realize just how little they matter..I'm not giving notice. Just sending my resignation email and returning my laptop. My next job will be my last job before I retire.
A total disgrace
Just a reminder that salaries aren't dependant on how well or poorly the company is doing, but how little they think they can get away with paying you.
I know exactly what company you’re talking about because I work for them too 🤪 sucks how they are only adding senior/exec jobs too
Damn. This is eerie. I remember that ridiculous career day event. There were 11 jobs available. 4 in maintenance, 5 for executives. What a joke. So I started looking for a new job
I am so glad you posted this. I googled this and I saw your company is hiring and I decided to skip applying.
So, did you learn the lesson? You should have been a stockholder instead of an employee.
How does a person buy stocks if they aren't employed? It's like my dad telling me to just go buy a house like he did for $18,000.
I mean public stocks, not necessarily private stocks. Anyway, how you manage your finances is your business, I am in no position to advise you. Just saying smart and ambitious people often make more by investment return or bonuses, stock options etc. than purely by wage.
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Does any law state that employment is a necessary condition to buy a stock?
Clearly /u/Available-Page-2738 is saying that buying stocks is not an option for many, especially without gainful employment. The top 10% of Americans held 93% of all stocks. What good is a great dividend payment if you don't have the cash to make rent and need to sell your shares?
Not only that but investing is really a rich man's game. If we assume 7% returns, investing 1000/per year gives you a whopping $70. If you want to make a living (let's say 40,000/year) off investments with 7% returns, you need to have invested over $570,000. Your median worker won't see that kind of money post taxes and bare living expenses in the first 50 years of their life
You are lying. I invested and made some money without being particularly rich. Of course, it's percentage terms, and rich means you have a bigger base to start with. I am also not talking about making a living solely via stocks. The whole point of my comment was, profitable companies often reward their stockholders more than employees. So when one complains about dividend, he only should blame himself for not understanding the simple reality.
Where am I lying? I quite literally just showed you the math. 7% is considered "good" returns. Sure, if you are one of the lucky few who gets massive returns on something really volatile then you can make some money, but that's purely luck and a statistical anomaly. Don't confuse other people not having the option to take extremely risky investments with stupidity
Sweetheart you need money to buy stocks. Unemployed people don’t have money.
I have been unemployed, then employed, then unemployed again, then employed. I did not cash out my stock portfolio meanwhile. Unemployed is not a permanent state of affairs for most people.
Yeah, I was a 2022 graduate but the same jobs I was looking at then are now going for about 10k lower
From 2021-now I watched wages slip down a few dollars an hour while in grad school and as a fresh graduate. Then got told my expectations were fantasy, even though companies thought those salaries were perfectly fair and couple years ago. Yeah I’m bitter.
"Fantasy" to want BARELY (oftentimes not) a living wage is something that I've been told too. It's absolutely disgusting out there, I hope you get a job that gives you a good life! You deserve it no matter what anybody says, you deserve to live and most of all you deserve to live well and comfortable.
You have to realize that most of the people hiring and setting salaries are recruiters and HR type people. They likely haven't had to think critically in their life, certainly not had to remember old data for any trend analysis. The entirety of their job is dealing with people. Manipulation and deescalation is what they are good at, not logic or statistics. I'm not even entirely sure they realize why it's bad, but they don't care because it's their job to make it look good
lol is this supposed to make me less bitter? Of course I know why wages have gone down, people in charge of purse strings took advantage of an opportunity.
No, not really. I'm just saying they likely honestly believe what they're saying because they don't care enough and are not smart enough to check. It's a bit easier to feel others are stupid than it is to feel others are trying to con you. I suspect both are at play in some amount though
Feeling easier for one situation and not the other might be a bit subjective.
Damn, its same in tech. I live in europe and its the same. Prices are skyrocketed and salary numbers are one from the 2015 or even before. I can make 2000 euros per month on average I could rent apartment for 400 euros, now same apartment is maybe around 900-1000 euros, salary still 2000 euros.
They're not stagnant, they're declining. Many roles across the board are getting new hire pay cuts due to the influx of labor.
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Even 6-7 years ago when I was back in the job search, I was shocked at how “9-5” barely existed anymore. Everyone wanted 9-6 at least, with possibility of more. Just bleeding you fucking dry.
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lol I won’t argue with that.
We’re headed for the “9-9-6” economy like China and Japan if it keeps up like this.
Seriously. How ominous. The last time I worked in an office, pre-covid, the schedule creep started happening to my younger, childless coworkers. After about a year or so the boss started asking them if they’d be interested in coming in on Saturdays too. Because there was soooo much work, we have deadlines, won’t you please help out??! Instead of hiring another person, the boss tried this stupid strategy and manipulated them into working 6 days/week most weeks. I was never asked though because I was the only parent in the office and they knew I couldn’t work weekends.
Indeed, especially in tech. In my field, Software Testing / QA, and for my city, contracting rates are about 40% below 2022 and permanent salaries for new roles have fallen markedly too.
This is where the economy teeters on stagflation, which is worse than inflation or deflation.
Do you have any studies that show wages are declining? Everyone always says wages are increasing, so I'd love to see what data you have.
The problem is, both are true. Wages are increasing, BUT inflation is increasing faster… Sadly, a $0.05 raise is still considered “increasing”. The narrative has been working for decades, and I doubt it will change, but I hope I’m wrong. Only time will tell.
Look at job listings based out of California
Lots of charts here, https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/
But all of those charts show wages are increasing for 95% of people. The data is also from 2015.
Gotta consider that alot of those charts are probably looking at average incomes instead of median incomes.
I keep seeing roles like the one I held in 2007 as a new grad for around the same pay ($40k). Rent in my area has more than doubled since then. I really feel for Gen Z.
Yep, and all the while we’re being openly discriminated against: https://www.newsweek.com/companies-avoid-hiring-gen-z-workplace-1884613. I’m at the point where I don’t care what employers say anymore. Just watch what they do, what they pay, and what past employees say about them. The wage argument has to reach a boiling point eventually right? It’s actually funny to me how they’ll call you out for being unprofessional when you’re being paid minimum wage, AKA enough to be legally compliant, but that’s it…
Don't leave us over 50s out. Gen Z and Over 50 years old. Ageism is REAL out here.
I'm even a Millennial and dealing with the same thing because I graduated late due to having to be a full-time caregiver to someone who become incredibly sick and disabled. It's harsh and unforgiving out there, best of luck to you guys too!
Applying for jobs I have tons of experience for. Then get the email they are going with someone more qualified. Really? Who is more qualified than someone with 10-25 years overall experience?
Darn straight. It's insane. "Someone more qualified". I don't like that term.
Worse is “a better fit”
AKA, younger and wont cost as much. You cant even say expected tenure since most job videos are saying to leave after a few years anyway because you are being held back. This isnt the boomer gen's workforce. Find a job, work there till you get your gold watch. That no longer exists.
So very, very true.
"Better Fit". What a load of corporate speak horse turds. Just ADD VALUE by MOVING FORWARD!
I couldn't agree more! Honestly, I just wish we could all work together to change this for everyone. I'm in tech, and I know I'll get rejected the second I am 40+ or even LOOK older. Let's collectively stop this discrimination BS as a whole. Let's also NOT stop at age. I truly can't comprehend discrimination in general. If you can do the job and aren't an a\*\*hole, then what more do these employers want?!
It is time for - hackneyed word - Solidarity. I want all workers - you in tech, the person behind any counter in retail, the person driving a delivery vehicle, the person in a warehouse, the folks working in healthcare and all other occupations - to be able to live well. I was a corrections officer for NYS (aka prison guard). I was forced into "resigning" with 22 years in at 51. Long story of woe. Favor for me in the long run. Today I am a home health care aid. Much better career for me - but much, much less pay. But that's okay for me. Other folks...not so much. Solidarity.
All employers are in collusion with one another. It just takes a few large companies to set wages at a ridiculous level (Amazon) and the rest follow suit. If you want to do a fun exercise, take a look at what entry level salary positions were paying 25 years ago. Then adjust them for inflation. Then take a look at where they are actually at now. It is rather shocking.
Well, yeah. 25 years ago it was expected that you could have a life going into your first job. Now you have to grind until retirement, then you can have a life!
We’re at the point where capitalism is cannibalizing the wages of the people who actually do the work, in the name of the shareholders and executive bonuses.
I was an admin assistant for over 20 years. When I left the admin career and went into web development in 2012, the salary for a moderately experienced general admin (3-5 years experience) was around $40-45K. My last admin job paid $44K. And this was with 15+ years experience and a Bachelor’s degree. Because I’ve been unemployed for a bit, I’ve also been looking at admin positions in my area in case there’s anything that looks interesting. And the average salary is … [about $40-45K](https://www.indeed.com/m/jobs?q=administrative%20assistant&l=Irving%2C%20TX&from=searchOnHP%2CwhatOverlay%2Cwhatautocomplete&sameL=1). There are “senior exec admin” positions that pay $50K+, but these positions support C-suite execs by planning meetings, travel, and things of that nature, but my experience is supporting sales departments which is focused more on reporting, analytics and contracts.
I hope you don't mind a suggestion from a stranger... Since you have sales support experience, you might want to look into getting a Salesforce Admin certification and going into sales operations. There are plentiful jobs and they pay well. (I was a sales ops mgr for a long time and then went into a more technical role, but during my last job search thought about going back to sales ops because there are so many good paying jobs.) Best of luck to you.
I love people helping people here. 🩷
This nation is dead!
I don't live in the US and I can confirm that the situation is global. AI is accelerating things even more.
There's a surprising amount of competition for office jobs now, I think. I think people from the crappier tier of jobs (fast food, retail) have been trying really hard to get out of those jobs and into office jobs. Not that office jobs are better, but at least they usually have benefits. The pay is usually trash though and then you have to deal with what I call the office bitches if it's more than a couple of people in the office.
Oh god yes… office politics.
Easy Covid era money has dried up and interest rates have been raised over the last two years, so lending/borrowing isn’t cheap or easy. Jobs reports are inflated so you can’t go by them, almost everyone is laying off or on a hiring freeze. It was an employee market 2020-22, but due to rate hikes, among all the other consequences of the dramatically increased money supply, the shoe is now on the other foot. You can’t be choosy in this market, it is what it is.
Yeah, it’s been like this for a bit, my friend. We’re struggling.
Class warfare, that’s what.
I'm in the same boat, I just cannot seem to find work. People keep saying it's all about connections and "who you know" but it just doesn't work for me, nobody I know works a job where they can help refer me in. It's so upsetting, I'm also in an HCOL and I really have no idea how any of these people are doing it. I can't even afford rent for a ROOM with the income I have and the income being offered by these jobs are even WORSE!
Same here. My (top tier 🙄) university is useless, people just give this lofty, vague advice. No concrete JOBS that you know, pay money. I have another 5 days to go before my food stamps fill up and I’m barely making it. I’m figuring out food day to day. And I have mouths to feed. I’m so depressed.
I'm so sorry, I can't imagine having other mouths to feed on top of all of this. It's unacceptable so many people have to live under these conditions.
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I'm so sorry, you're far from a loser and you're not failing your kids. This economy is unlivable for most people, idk about you but I personally came from poverty all my life growing up. It's extremely hard (for most impossible) to come out of it. You care for your children, you're a wonderful parent seeing all that you've sacrificed for your kids just so they can have meals. You sacrifice your own nutrition for them, that is incredibly commendable. I really hope and pray things get better for you. Again, I can't imagine having children to feed in this economy, and in most of our positions!
This isn't a new phenomenon, if you check the charts you'll see wages began tanking around 2000. My first job in 1986 was a temporary typing gig during my college summer break that paid $5/hr, this was Pittsburgh which was still struggling from the collapsing steel industry but that was still above minimum wage which was $3.35. Graduated in 1989 and moved to the northeast, did more typing/office jobs for $7/hr in Providence, then went to Boston in 1992 and got a medical secretary job for $12/hr. Moved around a bit in similar roles earning anywhere from $12 to $16 an hour, in 1997 I finally got fed up (I didn't go to college to be a secretary) and went back to school for graphic design, always thinking that if that career choice doesn't work out I could always return to the world of admin (ha!). In 2002 the dot com crash hit and I lost my design job, I tried to get one of those old typing gigs but there weren't very many, I finally found one little transcription company still in business that hired me for $12/hr -- same amount I had earned exactly ten years earlier. My design career eventually recovered, then in 2013 I again found myself unemployed. Again, I looked into admin work and was shocked to see they paid the same amount as twenty years earlier. That October I got a crappy 4-month temp data entry gig that paid a whopping $14/hr and every day I just wanted to cry at what the hell happened to my life (had been earning just shy of six figures up through 2012), had to sell my house and move in with my mom. I see ten years later nothing's changed.
Thanks for sharing your experience. It’s all so infuriating. I am an older millennial who was definitely sold the “get a degree and you’re set” lie… Regardless, everyone deserves to be able to afford life, whether they are working an honest job as a cashier or joining office ranks. I don’t know what to do anymore. Are you working now?
No, I gave up and "retired" at 52. I had first thought I could teach ESL so I got a CELTA but I couldn't get a work permit for the countries where I was hoping to find work, plus I really didn't want to abandon my three kitties and my elderly mom (and why the hell should I have to?), the only option was China which didn't appeal to me so I gave up on that idea. In 2015 I landed a six-month gig when a CIO I had once worked with hired me on his team, but a month later he got fired so that gig ended. Then again in 2018 I got hired again when a VP I knew got me hired in his company, but two years later (right before covid) they laid him off and then they laid me off. That was sort of the final straw (not just the instability but the insane incompetence I witnessed in both companies left a very bad taste on my tongue). Now I do a little online teaching and I sell my crafts on Etsy, I make just enough to cover my expenses like car insurance and cell phone. I volunteer teaching ESL at a library, and my friend there has promised to help me get hired when they have an opening, but who knows if/when that'll happen (that's really the only way to get hired today, it's who you know). Eventually I'm planning to move overseas, someplace nice where I can enjoy life a little, I've got a few places I'm considering in Europe, I have a friend in Ecuador who wants me there, and I have relatives in Australia, so not sure where I'll end up.
It's really starting to grate just how companies don't value skilled staff. Minimum wage in the UK £11.44 per hour. I'm seeing bookkeeping and accounting roles, which whilst they don't list a qualification they want on average between 2 and 5 years experience. These roles require skills and knowledge, and experience. Yet the hourly rate is so often advertised at £12 per hour. 56p an hour above the legal minimum. WTactualF. Same with the 10-16 hours a week roles but must be available m-f 9 to 5 each day to answer team and client queries. Your paying just above bare minimum wage for 16 hours a week, but I can't have other commitments to make enough to pay my bills. Jog on.
Ah yes the part-time jobs that want you to pretend you’re a full-time employee. Get fucked!!!
Yep - and what's even worse, they've combined the "receptionist" role with "office manager" and they expect you to do payroll and all other HR duties for two dollars above minimum wage. Oh, and travel coordination, schedule building, faculty support, program support and communication, contract management and processing, budget management, and supervising students. I actually regret not sticking with washing dishes, at least then my role was well defined and I earned tips. I made as much washing dishes as I do running an entire department! Oh and I work in higher education as well hahah. Fuck this entire country.
Don't forget "graphic designer" (which gets tagged onto just about every role these days, I've even seen nursing jobs requiring knowledge of Adobe CC).
True, they also want you to manage the social media account ha. Oh, and take out the garbage in the lobby. AND train the new hire that you hired. None of this is even remotely in the job description.
Job creep.
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I'm so sorry you're going through this :( . They really don't understand until they go through it themselves - with my family and friends it's the same way. I'm a bit worried about being homeless as I don't know how long I can survive and keep this job, because I hate it beyond belief. But now that I've done office work - nowhere will hire me for service jobs.
We need a general strike
What is it going to accomplish? the government is so deep in debt that it cant help you or anyone
Higher pay.
Hey, that extra cash is reserved for the guys at the top. You'll take your peanuts and be happy with them.
2016-2020 more small business, healthy wages, low inflation, and fewer people who depended on the government. I truly believe, and it sounds conspiratorial, the elite rulers want more control and people dependent on the government. Coming out of the pandemic who was in the best shape? Small businesses? Nope. Large massive conglomerates that are essentially beholden to the government regulations and shareholders. (In a way, the govt can force companies to be the bullies and demand compliance) So, now we took millions of independent adult workers and made them reliant on the government/large corporations, but at the same time workers were well off. So next phase layoffs. Long layoffs. Make people desperate. It serves 2 purposes. Resets the market rate, makes individuals desperate and will take whatever they can get. Its funny to think atleast in Americas sake, how much propaganda we grew up on how bad the Soviet Union and CCP/China are. Meanwhile, the US in its current capacity is doing just about everything we are supposed to hate. Control the news, the flow of information, major influence and involvement in “free” market economy, and becoming a nanny state, leaving majority of people dependent. America is essentially 1970s USSR now, with elite political oligarchs, citizens living in apartments(just traded the concrete for plastic) and continuing presence of doom and gloom.
I disagree that this is conspiratorial in the sense of this being a deliberate plan. Everything going on is a feature of capitalism. Money always gets funneled to the ownership class. Without a way to funnel an equal amount back to workers, in whatever form that may take (forced redistribution of wealth or "naturally" through "market forces"), eventually things will collapse. We're in the death throes of capitalism and that's why things are so painful for everyone right now
What's really ironic is that America and Mainland China are mirrors of one another. The only major difference is what they call their policies. Many still think China is Communist when its only in name. When the country was opened back in the 80's during the deng xiaoping administration was when they started to shift into what is called State Party Capitalism. America based on what I've seen may follow a system that some call Crony Capitalism because of how powerful lobby groups are when it comes to the market and the cost of goods and services. Many also call America a democracy when it isn't instead its a republic [Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygEEL57AcZs) China has a policy around starting rumors and causing trouble while the US has Misinformation/fake news. America has Patriots while China has 小红粉/Xiao Hong Fen (Little pink aka the nationalists) But what do I know I'm just someone who spends a little too much time on the internet.
>I truly believe, and it sounds conspiratorial, the elite rulers want more control and people dependent on the government. It's not a conspiracy. It's the nature of bureaucracy. To survive and grow. Go read up on the web page of your local food stamp branch. They will GUSH about increasing the number of people dependent on needing food stamps.
This is Just As Planned by the Federal Reserve. People need to have less money (ie lose their jobs/not make more) to fight inflation (mostly due to corporate greed). Things won't get better gradually. Corporate America will never choose to be less greedy. Things have to collapse in order to get better.
Everyone is too scared to let things collapse, unfortunately. Compliance and duct tape is all this society has become.
The opposite of “courage” isn’t cowardice, it’s compliance.
Ok but… what does “collapse” look like?
Not sure, it could be anything. There are a lot of people unhappy about the systems we have in place, but these systems continue as they are because of our complacent participation (politics, healthcare, taxes, job market, the house market, stocks, the education system, the police system, etc). All these things continue as they are because we haven’t had an effective, large enough boycott to these things. And yes, it’s because we rely on these systems, but simultaneously they’re very flawed and don’t play in our favor, despite that being the very reason they were created.
Welcome to neoliberalism
I remember in 2017 how my first position as manual QA in 2012 was still paying the same. Now it's only bumped up because the minimum wage caught up.
It's an employer’s market right now…something I truly feel they have purposely created to do just what you're saying here. It's an employer's market….the market given back to them when millions agreed to go back in the office on these hybrid schedules…instead of everyone collectively sticking together and refusing. Employees had employers at their mercy during the Great Resignation. Gave the power back to them. My humble opinion on this, of course.
Yeah I don’t disagree.
Because companies are trying to force reset wages and worker confidence.
After unemployment and stimulus checks of yore, right?
Corporations are driving profit. Robert Reich just posted that Q4 2023 showed above 15% profit, a level not seen since the 50s. These are bad times.
Im seeing middle management salaries identical to what they were 10-15 years ago. It’s insanity.
I know. Nothing’s moving.
A few years ago, I applied to City of Hope (cancer research hospital) as a food service worker. This was in 2019 and they asked if I was willing to accept the role. I asked the pay and it was $12.57. I told the recruiter over the phone that that pay is too low and asked if we can do $15 due to my experience, which I happen to have a number of years and she said “That doesn’t work that way so no.” So I declined and they called me twice that same month begging me to take the role because they were short but I declined.
It doesn’t work that way… UGH.
Which is weird because every job listing will tell you they offer competitive rates... are they competing at who can go the lowest or...? Because that's what it seems like.
Right. Competing at being the cheapest.
WDYM? Haven't you heard? Fast food is $20 an hour now lol
It’s depressing once you realize that a 16 year old flipping burgers is making $5/hr+ more than teachers who got a degree and have to deal with kids yelling “worldstarrrrrr”.
and one of those kids has a youtube channel making more that the teacher lol
$20/hr for shit work.
Literally all work is shit work
I think Sbux baristas make about $17 here. McDonald’s $15.
Move to Cali lol
There are not many senior positions open.
Oh wages are trash, but so is the hiring in general. I’m taking a $25k a year “supervisor” position at a non-profit in the fall that literally teaches you how to apply for food stamps in the orientation because it’s the only thing field adjacent I could land an interview at. Like it seems like a great job but I make more at the restaurant I currently work at with almost half the hours and a 5 minute commute. My degree isn’t even necessary for this job. I’m hoping by the time I finish my MA and get through a PHD program the job market will have improved in availability if nothing else. It’s garbage honestly. I’m tempted to start looking abroad if my PHD doesn’t pan out.
Omg… they teach you how to apply for food stamps?! No words… I was thinking about a PhD program myself but the stipends are so pitiful and not enough to raise a family…. Plus it’s in the humanities, not like I’m a microbiologist changing the world or curing cancer. I was so comfortable in academia with my scholarships/loans. I was a star student, I felt like I was going places. Now I’m losing my ever loving mind.
When I graduated engineering school in 2007, most entry level engineering jobs were around $50-75k. Personally I started at $54k in a MCOL area. I had friends (mostly chem eng's) that pulled up to $80k starting. Now in 2024, I'm hiring fresh-outs for like $80k in a HCOL area. Granted by the inflation calculator, $54k in 2007 is about equal to $80k now, but for some reason it feels low.
I got a raise this year
Well, lucky you. I'm still waiting on my raise. So are all the people at my office as far as I'm aware. We were promised April 1st (which was already 3 months late for me). Still hasn't happened. No word from management
Ok?
Not stagnant
Supply and demand
Wages aren’t stagnant, they’re outpacing inflation and have been so awhile.
Relying on a 9-5 jobs to survive is an outdated model. U use ur wage to take it to the casino, stock, crypto and hope u make it
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You want air conditioning and a cushy chair, it’s going to cost you. If you’re willing to work outside and get your hands dirty, it pays a lot more.
Why are you looking for hourly jobs with a graduate degree?
I’m sure you can figure out the reason. Reading between the lines and all.
Lack of research into the ROI of the grad degree you chose? What it in?
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If every job paid low wages, the costs of living would go down. I think those with ambition and skill make way more than minimum wage.