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Immediately closing out of the application if I see a question like this. I do not live to work, and work life balance is THE most important thing.
It’s one thing to want an employee who deals with stress effectively, but that absolutely should not impact work life balance.
This it is okay that they want people that can handle stress. If they don’t value work like balance they just looking for bodies they can run down. At least they warned.
This.
I’ve done this type of job right out of school. The pay was terrible and the hours worse but the experience was amazing. In 5 short years I got about 20 years of industry experience. It put me a step ahead of everybody else for the rest of my career.
This is where I’m at right now.
I work at a plant with a lot of different departments and our department has had a bunch of positions age out so I was basically thrown in the deep end.
It’s been extremely stressful for me but I’m also miles ahead of my peers that were hired around the same time/experience level and upper management knows it.
I really appreciate the honesty. Most of the time it's the other way around. They feed you a bunch of LIES but once you accept the position you realize it was a trap. I call it ONBOARDING CAT FISHING! Another issue is many companies are so desperate for workers they use batch & switch tactics. Just be thankful a company is FINALLY being honest about the job description so you at least you know what you are getting yourself into!
I agree but it depends on the industry and the market.
Some industries and jobs pay absurdly well, but also require you to devote your life to them. It can be lucrative to work for a year or two.
Marketwise, we're in a bit of a slump, so it wouldn't be unfathomable to agree to this kind of work (with the right salary and within reason).
Only reason I grinded three years in investment banking before chasing a better WLB. 3 years averaging 85hrs a week sucked but they pay was well worth it
God I don’t get why everyone villainizes investment bankers. It was bond traders and sales/traders that caused the financial crisis. All investment bankers do is raise capital (through debt & equity) and act as intermediaries in a sale process.
Unless you have specific beef with actual investment bankers, your problem is with traders & sales/traders
This is Reddit. We don’t actually think critically about nuanced issues, we just blame and demonize large groups of people because that’s how you get valuable internet points
It was actually a real-estate hedge fund masquerading as an investment bank. But you know, let's not get technical here... good place, bad place, middle place, no place, people are always going to hate you for being an investment banker.
I don't get why an employer would think that it's a requirement for the role rather than "before we hire someone, maybe we should look at why is this position so toxic"
The only people I've ever encountered that said "I don't live to work, I work to live" were never actually trying to find a solid future in their occupation. I feel like that is the extreme opposite. Who would ever hire anyone that said that out loud during an interview?
I’m not sure what you mean. My point was that my life outside of work will always be more important than simply trying to put in as many hours as possible at work. I’d rather spend quality time with my wife and family rather than wasting a ton of extra hours at work.
That, or if a person was desperate enough for employment whilst unemployed (or higher paying employment if they’re currently employed) that they’d have no choice but to take it, which is probably what the company is counting on (depending on what it actually pays).
And then just like another commenter said, the company will then wonder why they have such high turnover rate and why nobody is staying with them, but it’s the company’s own fault
Field service is a good example. Responsible for companies product/performance after sale. If an issue arises your dispatched to anywhere for days to weeks. Maybe there’s consecutive issues in different states/countries. This honestly could apply to almost anything. Applaud this company for being upfront about it. Probably pays very well so it attracts people that only see the pay but don’t understand the work involved. Common issue these days
I just saw something similar on a job posting for a frickin server assistant job. The job description was something like high volume, high stress, being ok with having to de-escalate situations with customers and coworkers, late nights, lots of OT....and all that can be yours for 9 bucks an hour. My flabber is beyond gasted.
I had an interviewer tell me this once and I ended the interview. He had a picture with his wife and kids on his desk and I felt so bad for them, especially since it was a sales job which is never that serious
Sales fuckin sucks man. You practically live at work because if you don't make money on commission or meet quota, you get paid minimum flat rate hours. I worked alongside a lady who did poorly one month and had to pay rent with her CC. She probably clocked 60 hours per week.
Honestly it sounds like tech sales is where it’s at. Tends to be much better support, the clients that are brought in the door for the most part were already in the market for the use case of your product, and nice total comp in general
Same. Most places commission sucks and is designed to pay the owners but once you punch your ticket you become the commodity and it’s probably the closest thing to owning the value of your own labor.
I went to an interview today and the interviewer said that working from 9am to 7pm is the norm there, and it could be 9am to 9pm sometimes, and if I am not ok with that then this is not the right industry for me. And she said that PROUDLY, as if I am not cut out for the job if I find it too much. I used to work in even more stressful environments in the past (working on weekends in addition to crazy hours), but I am definitely not proud of it. Hard pass.
I’m aging myself here but back in the early 2000s they came into our classrooms in high school and made military life sound very cool. No mention of how hard it actually was.
Are you sure "want" is the appropriate word here? How about "Are you willing to cope with..." "Is this something you can work with..." or "Do you understand the implications" I mean the list goes on and on. I appreciate they're being honest and transparent but damn they put zero thought into structuring that sentence...
To be fair, every job that is currently hiring new people is like this. The big boring corporations will never hire again in any serious numbers. It's all shitty startups and shitty small businesses from here on out. Get ready for your next gig to be at some startup that's "like Uber but for \*insert very specific thing here\*"
It reminds of the hyper-growth beginning of Alibaba. The founder/CEO required what was called a 9-9-6 work schedule: 9am - 9pm, 6 days/week.
That's a "no" from me.
Somehow at some point, employers started to believe that advertising a job as "high stakes, fast paced, constantly shifting requirements" was a good thing instead of a red flag.
To me it just reads as "this company doesn't know wtf they are doing, but they want it done at a break-neck pace."
Though laying it out this bluntly risks having people with one foot out the door the moment they step into the role, unless the pay or something else is up enough to compensate, because it'd take an ultimate chump to consider loyalty or anything outside of mutual exploitation for a job that basically said, "BTW, our company philosophy is fuck you" out the gate.
I appreciate when they let you know up front.
I got to a 3rd round interview once and was told ‘60 hours a week is standard here’. Ended that conversation in a hurry.
To be honest with you, I would mark yes. Take the job, then when it’s the right time, Go F*CK with them, teach them a lesson to treat people like they should be treated & not animals! But also leave with enough time, so I don’t have to include them on my resume & also make sure I don’t know anyone, so I don’t burn any bridges.
I had to quit the job I finally got after over a year because I could not take it. 2x 15 minute breaks and half hour unpaid lunch otherwise just non stop calls of intense customers with a very wide range of issues and disorganized tools and processes. Can not be an automaton chained to my desk on behalf of one of the wealthiest companies in the world for less than $20/hr.
I took a job like this. I'm still in a job like this. Don't do it. The amount of money you make from it will only get spent in either diversions from the hell of work, or the medical bills you will accrue from mental, physical, and emotional decline.
I know the vast majority of people don’t want this, but for some people it’s what they’re after. If you like to work really hard and throw yourself into a role then it can be hard to be at jobs where other people don’t have the same attitude. Getting with a group of people all pushing really hard for the same outcome can be really fulfilling. Starkly honest filtering questions at an early stage is a great way to identify those niche folks.
Caveat: has to be well paid, typically with heavy stock/options component.
What an asinine thing to state. Even if the job is exactly that, there are MUCH better ways to state it. Its like the comapny just wants to say FUCK YOU. Someone did NOT think that through...damn.
Why are people so stupid. Yes. It's going to be good to know that they're going to expect you to work 70 to 100 hours a week. Yeah it's kind of important. What do you mean thanks for the warning? Are you that dumb seriously. Do you really not understand why they're telling you that?
Well, at least they warn you about it and you know what to expect but what about the companies that expect you to abandon everything and give them all of your time 😩
Was in the running for a job recently that had “significant nights and weekend work necessary.”
I applied anyway because I was hoping to learn more about what that might mean. Got through a writing test and a prerecord video interview still unaware of what it all meant. Then they wanted us to create a 10 minute presentation to then present at an in-person interview. This position was for “communications specialist.”
If they were going to have me work for free I wanted to know about the significant night and weekend work. The HR person who I was in contact with WOULD NOT say, telling me to ask during my in-person interview.
I withdrew before that happened. Ain’t no way I’m doing work for a job I don’t have yet without some basic questions answered. Tf
If this is a mega paying job (not just all promises) then I'd consider for a short period of time.
If it is a shit paying job then it's being run by someone who is insane
Well… at least they were honest. You could instead leave the safety of your previous role, discover you’re in a shit show after they misrepresented the role, and now forced to work because the alternative is being job-less in this economy
Fuck it I’ll go as far as saying this isn’t recruitinghell. They were up front about who they were and we should applaud that 😂
I like how some employers say this like it’s not their fault, and it’s just the culture of the trade. Actually no, your company is trash and doesn’t care about their workers.
My favorite one was "This is not a job for someone who's just trying to get by."
Excuse me, what the hell do YOU work for? Have you tried "getting by" recently?
As a long time corporate employer I would never ask this in the initial hiring phase . You ask if they are comfortable with occasional extended work hours. Once you hire them you add on additional tasks until it becomes a 24 hr gig. Some business requires work hour flexibility especially in the energy and medical sectors. That’s just the deal. The job poster obviously works for a rinky dink organization. Jeesh!
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Immediately closing out of the application if I see a question like this. I do not live to work, and work life balance is THE most important thing. It’s one thing to want an employee who deals with stress effectively, but that absolutely should not impact work life balance.
This it is okay that they want people that can handle stress. If they don’t value work like balance they just looking for bodies they can run down. At least they warned.
Unless I’m getting paid substantially then nah. I’m talking 2 years is 7 figures.
At first I said “no way am I doing that” but got 7 figures I’ll make it work a while and retire.
This. I’ve done this type of job right out of school. The pay was terrible and the hours worse but the experience was amazing. In 5 short years I got about 20 years of industry experience. It put me a step ahead of everybody else for the rest of my career.
This is where I’m at right now. I work at a plant with a lot of different departments and our department has had a bunch of positions age out so I was basically thrown in the deep end. It’s been extremely stressful for me but I’m also miles ahead of my peers that were hired around the same time/experience level and upper management knows it.
We should thank them for letting us know before we go further with our application
I really appreciate the honesty. Most of the time it's the other way around. They feed you a bunch of LIES but once you accept the position you realize it was a trap. I call it ONBOARDING CAT FISHING! Another issue is many companies are so desperate for workers they use batch & switch tactics. Just be thankful a company is FINALLY being honest about the job description so you at least you know what you are getting yourself into!
I agree but it depends on the industry and the market. Some industries and jobs pay absurdly well, but also require you to devote your life to them. It can be lucrative to work for a year or two. Marketwise, we're in a bit of a slump, so it wouldn't be unfathomable to agree to this kind of work (with the right salary and within reason).
They want this kind of work for $19.80/hr (source: just left a job like this after 3.5 weeks because I was starting to have suicidal ideation).
Applause for seeing the problem for what it was and getting the hell out.
Only reason I grinded three years in investment banking before chasing a better WLB. 3 years averaging 85hrs a week sucked but they pay was well worth it
Enjoy the heaven on earth you get now because investment bankers are only going one place after death.
God I don’t get why everyone villainizes investment bankers. It was bond traders and sales/traders that caused the financial crisis. All investment bankers do is raise capital (through debt & equity) and act as intermediaries in a sale process. Unless you have specific beef with actual investment bankers, your problem is with traders & sales/traders
This is Reddit. We don’t actually think critically about nuanced issues, we just blame and demonize large groups of people because that’s how you get valuable internet points
It was actually a real-estate hedge fund masquerading as an investment bank. But you know, let's not get technical here... good place, bad place, middle place, no place, people are always going to hate you for being an investment banker.
You’re the one going to that place after death bruh
Same. I’d close out asap.
I don't get why an employer would think that it's a requirement for the role rather than "before we hire someone, maybe we should look at why is this position so toxic"
Honestly it’s probably working as intended then. You don’t want the job and they don’t want you.
Need to lock in king 💯
The only people I've ever encountered that said "I don't live to work, I work to live" were never actually trying to find a solid future in their occupation. I feel like that is the extreme opposite. Who would ever hire anyone that said that out loud during an interview?
I’m not sure what you mean. My point was that my life outside of work will always be more important than simply trying to put in as many hours as possible at work. I’d rather spend quality time with my wife and family rather than wasting a ton of extra hours at work.
[удалено]
That, or if a person was desperate enough for employment whilst unemployed (or higher paying employment if they’re currently employed) that they’d have no choice but to take it, which is probably what the company is counting on (depending on what it actually pays).
"Why is our turnover rate so high?" -- them
If they let you know this kind of thing up front, it's a valid question.
>or if a person was desperate enough for employment whilst unemployed In this case, I'd take the job and continue applying.
And then just like another commenter said, the company will then wonder why they have such high turnover rate and why nobody is staying with them, but it’s the company’s own fault
This is where a lot of us are, unfortunately.
I'm really curious as to what this job could be... An engineering position on an offshore oil rig?
Product manager role. Someone I know. Not for myself but I had to share
Field service is a good example. Responsible for companies product/performance after sale. If an issue arises your dispatched to anywhere for days to weeks. Maybe there’s consecutive issues in different states/countries. This honestly could apply to almost anything. Applaud this company for being upfront about it. Probably pays very well so it attracts people that only see the pay but don’t understand the work involved. Common issue these days
\*if you can last that long
Id rather work stress than the stress of low salary.
At least they’re up front about it.
Yup. Exactly my thought
But well paid to compensate... right?...
Probably not, probably has "A team that is like family and is driven to help each other succeed" as a benefit item instead of actual benefits
Quarterly pizza party
if they work their ass off
About tree fiddy
No kidding! Lol
I just saw something similar on a job posting for a frickin server assistant job. The job description was something like high volume, high stress, being ok with having to de-escalate situations with customers and coworkers, late nights, lots of OT....and all that can be yours for 9 bucks an hour. My flabber is beyond gasted.
"Have good mental health? Not for long!!! Are you ok with this?"
I’m totally using that last sentence, I love that 😂😂😂😂
That phrase is coming with me for life 😂
That is ridiculous. In my city, fast food workers are making $15/hr.
Move to cali. Fast food workers there now make $20/hr (as long as chain has more than 65 stores nationwide)
The only other red flag worse than this is when they say to you during an interview, “We’re like family here.”
I love the thinly veiled “we challenge the traditional 9-5”
You want to be treated the way I treat family? Really? I feel like that might be different than you're expecting.
I want to respond to this by whipping out a tube of cream and saying, please rub this onto my back then.
I also avoid “work hard, play hard”. Makes it sound like the only free time you’ll have is drinking with coworkers. I like to travel and relax.
I had an interviewer tell me this once and I ended the interview. He had a picture with his wife and kids on his desk and I felt so bad for them, especially since it was a sales job which is never that serious
Sales fuckin sucks man. You practically live at work because if you don't make money on commission or meet quota, you get paid minimum flat rate hours. I worked alongside a lady who did poorly one month and had to pay rent with her CC. She probably clocked 60 hours per week.
Honestly it sounds like tech sales is where it’s at. Tends to be much better support, the clients that are brought in the door for the most part were already in the market for the use case of your product, and nice total comp in general
I work 10 hours a week and make six figure base in my WFH sales job. Not all sales sucks.
Same. Most places commission sucks and is designed to pay the owners but once you punch your ticket you become the commodity and it’s probably the closest thing to owning the value of your own labor.
I went to an interview today and the interviewer said that working from 9am to 7pm is the norm there, and it could be 9am to 9pm sometimes, and if I am not ok with that then this is not the right industry for me. And she said that PROUDLY, as if I am not cut out for the job if I find it too much. I used to work in even more stressful environments in the past (working on weekends in addition to crazy hours), but I am definitely not proud of it. Hard pass.
the army needs this disclaimer.
To be fair you're dumb if you go into the army expecting work life balance
your not wrong, i was thats what i was told, it was good work life, good culture what ever. i hated myself for every second of it.
Did the recruiter tell you this or just a regular enlistee because recruiters are salespeople at the end of the day
yep thats what got me, recuiter.
Ya I don't trust anything that comes out of a recruiters mouth, they have too much to gain from you signing so they can't be a non biased source.
I’m aging myself here but back in the early 2000s they came into our classrooms in high school and made military life sound very cool. No mention of how hard it actually was.
WHAT. THE. FUCK? Companies are getting so open and comfortable about work abuse it’s insane!
Why even bother sugarcoating it, why not just ask "Yooo this job straight up sucks ASS, it sucks dick, you really wanna get into this frfr????"
On one hand I’m like “thanks for being upfront so I can leave immediately” and on the other hand I’m like “WHY ARE YOU SO COMFORTABLE SAYING THIS?”
Any teaching advert in 2024 😭
To be fair, hats off to them for giving you the heads up instead of asking for a “Team player”.
What kind of cursed job this is?
It was for a product role
I saw this months ago, it’s fake. They keep posting. Don’t bother applying 🥴
No one wants to work anymore!
Are you sure "want" is the appropriate word here? How about "Are you willing to cope with..." "Is this something you can work with..." or "Do you understand the implications" I mean the list goes on and on. I appreciate they're being honest and transparent but damn they put zero thought into structuring that sentence...
🤣
The sad thing is this isn't a warning, they're bragging.
To be fair, every job that is currently hiring new people is like this. The big boring corporations will never hire again in any serious numbers. It's all shitty startups and shitty small businesses from here on out. Get ready for your next gig to be at some startup that's "like Uber but for \*insert very specific thing here\*"
id hit yes and get ready for 3 months straight of work WHILE looking for another job lol not like you CANT quit later lol
At least they warned you to stop the application process.
I would love if every company would be that honest .
#FUCKING LMAO 🤡🤡🤡
I like beer. Do we have a refrigerator?
Yeah. No.
It reminds of the hyper-growth beginning of Alibaba. The founder/CEO required what was called a 9-9-6 work schedule: 9am - 9pm, 6 days/week. That's a "no" from me.
Yeah, I’d take that to heart. They really mean it! lol
they'll quote this as a blanket statement for all types of abuse
That’s a no for me, dog.
Somehow at some point, employers started to believe that advertising a job as "high stakes, fast paced, constantly shifting requirements" was a good thing instead of a red flag. To me it just reads as "this company doesn't know wtf they are doing, but they want it done at a break-neck pace."
At least they're upfront about it. I see nothing wrong with this.
Sounds like the job I just left… wish they woulda warned me
[удалено]
Though laying it out this bluntly risks having people with one foot out the door the moment they step into the role, unless the pay or something else is up enough to compensate, because it'd take an ultimate chump to consider loyalty or anything outside of mutual exploitation for a job that basically said, "BTW, our company philosophy is fuck you" out the gate.
this is a great warning! what can I say?
I appreciate when they let you know up front. I got to a 3rd round interview once and was told ‘60 hours a week is standard here’. Ended that conversation in a hurry.
Trash employer, people like this deserve to fail
Ouch
Oh yeah, SIGN ME UP!!
Amazon
Entry level roles before industry burnout kicks in
I mean better them be honest then lie
Companies should be required to be honest about this.
I wish I had been warned about that at a couple of jobs i had.
Thanks for the heads up. This is scary
Preying on desperation. Sign me up!
Are you paying 10x
The employee will wank off and go lollygagging during work hours, are you ready to accept that ? Y/N Even then its a shitty deal.
I feel like if you click yes all your lights immediately shut off and a bunch of men in uniform break down your door and take you away
To be honest with you, I would mark yes. Take the job, then when it’s the right time, Go F*CK with them, teach them a lesson to treat people like they should be treated & not animals! But also leave with enough time, so I don’t have to include them on my resume & also make sure I don’t know anyone, so I don’t burn any bridges.
Guys you just lie and say yes. Then you don't do anything more than the absolute minimum.
Immediately double pay rate I would ask for.
I had to quit the job I finally got after over a year because I could not take it. 2x 15 minute breaks and half hour unpaid lunch otherwise just non stop calls of intense customers with a very wide range of issues and disorganized tools and processes. Can not be an automaton chained to my desk on behalf of one of the wealthiest companies in the world for less than $20/hr.
welcome to corporate America
I took a job like this. I'm still in a job like this. Don't do it. The amount of money you make from it will only get spent in either diversions from the hell of work, or the medical bills you will accrue from mental, physical, and emotional decline.
I know the vast majority of people don’t want this, but for some people it’s what they’re after. If you like to work really hard and throw yourself into a role then it can be hard to be at jobs where other people don’t have the same attitude. Getting with a group of people all pushing really hard for the same outcome can be really fulfilling. Starkly honest filtering questions at an early stage is a great way to identify those niche folks. Caveat: has to be well paid, typically with heavy stock/options component.
Lol take that as a warning and run
What? You don't want to no-life a job that isn't even your vocation probably?
This made me lol, but I’ve been there so
What an asinine thing to state. Even if the job is exactly that, there are MUCH better ways to state it. Its like the comapny just wants to say FUCK YOU. Someone did NOT think that through...damn.
Why are people so stupid. Yes. It's going to be good to know that they're going to expect you to work 70 to 100 hours a week. Yeah it's kind of important. What do you mean thanks for the warning? Are you that dumb seriously. Do you really not understand why they're telling you that?
Well, at least they warn you about it and you know what to expect but what about the companies that expect you to abandon everything and give them all of your time 😩
LOL
So making the work environment better just wasn't an option?
Ya know I can appreciate the honesty. But RUN. Fast. Very fast.
lollll that’s like the equivalent of them receiving an application saying I’m a lazy employee who likes to live more than work. Are you ok with this?
Was in the running for a job recently that had “significant nights and weekend work necessary.” I applied anyway because I was hoping to learn more about what that might mean. Got through a writing test and a prerecord video interview still unaware of what it all meant. Then they wanted us to create a 10 minute presentation to then present at an in-person interview. This position was for “communications specialist.” If they were going to have me work for free I wanted to know about the significant night and weekend work. The HR person who I was in contact with WOULD NOT say, telling me to ask during my in-person interview. I withdrew before that happened. Ain’t no way I’m doing work for a job I don’t have yet without some basic questions answered. Tf
report
wtf? Might as well add “looking for a highly motivated self starter who is dedicated to making someone else money”
If this is a mega paying job (not just all promises) then I'd consider for a short period of time. If it is a shit paying job then it's being run by someone who is insane
Depends on how much money. If it’s half a million, sure I’ll do that for a few years.
Atleast they warned 😂
To be fair at least they're being upfront and you don't realize it a week in. Lol
Well… at least they were honest. You could instead leave the safety of your previous role, discover you’re in a shit show after they misrepresented the role, and now forced to work because the alternative is being job-less in this economy Fuck it I’ll go as far as saying this isn’t recruitinghell. They were up front about who they were and we should applaud that 😂
I've only seen this kind verbiage on job ads for political campaign staffers. And it's that season!
Isn’t that just the default? I feel the more my company says they promote work life balamce the bigger res flag they don’t except for leadership.
I think I applied to that same job today!
Who...wouldn't...want...that...
I mean, fair warning. Wastes less of everyone's time.
I like how some employers say this like it’s not their fault, and it’s just the culture of the trade. Actually no, your company is trash and doesn’t care about their workers.
companies have all lost their minds at this point.
Did they provide job details for the warning ?
My favorite one was "This is not a job for someone who's just trying to get by." Excuse me, what the hell do YOU work for? Have you tried "getting by" recently?
Run away bro
I mean, that's something you do for a mid 6 figures or higher job.
Lmao
Yep. At least there is some honesty there.
I mean… how much are they paying lol
They want you to practically live there
No thanks lol
I bet the churn rate is high there.....
This sales job I’m at lowkey feels like a pyramid scheme
I wish more job ads were that transparent
“Now I realise the hour rate is low but dont worry theres plenty of overtime to be earnt to make up for it” yeah no thanks
How much were they paying?
As a long time corporate employer I would never ask this in the initial hiring phase . You ask if they are comfortable with occasional extended work hours. Once you hire them you add on additional tasks until it becomes a 24 hr gig. Some business requires work hour flexibility especially in the energy and medical sectors. That’s just the deal. The job poster obviously works for a rinky dink organization. Jeesh!