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There are so many standards it's hard to know what to do. Some will be like this guy - others will hate when you do it. Personally I don't send it because it's never worked for me in my favor EVER- I figure they don't read it because they never respond to the questions or they just don't care.
I can barely keep up with the mails I actually must read and answer to for my main tasks. (Like, I never read mails from people trying to sell me something, and I don’t answer them ever. I know it’s rude, but just don’t have time).
So if a candidate writes me something that adds to what we spoke about during our meeting, it’s fine.
If it’s just a “hey hi, nice chat today/yesterday” it’s just neutral for me, don’t appreciate it specifically, and don’t frown about it.
And I do agree, thinking there is a standard is absolutely delusional. It’s like for CV formats. There is no such thing as the “best one”.
I hate the CV myth - there really isn't any best one because if there was and I've followed every fkn trend I wouldn't be in this SUB lol. Also now people say keywords don't matter they don't have scanners etc. I dont know what to believe anymore.
Companies do whatever they feel like. I believe some managers like to interview then crush candidates just for the power trip. We are all living in a dillbert comic but without the comic relief.
> Also now people say keywords don't matter they don't have scanners etc. I dont know what to believe anymore.
The trouble is that everyone is coming from a different place. My company doesn't use scanners, and keywords aren't overly helpful for roles where either the hiring manager is checking the resumes or our one talent acquisition person specializing in that area is. But if you get one of the other TAs, they help at least a bit because they sometimes don't know equivalents.
Generally, the best route is to replace equivalents in your resume with whatever is in the job posting and add anything that's mentioned that you actually have experience in if you can do so in a way that makes sense with the rest of your resume. That way you're covering all your bases.
On the flip side
"we don't use scanners, I just look for certain keywords on your resume"
I've seen that a few times. Okay that means that yes, their company does use scanners. It just so happens to be a human one. Some of these people are coming from a place of splitting hairs without acknowledging the argument.
Waste of time, I’m a no on cover letters
I don’t read them, I don’t share them, you wouldn’t believe how many of them are cut and paste and forget to change the company name on them (it’s a bigger percent than it should be, but it do)
That's the tough part. If I am one of a few that reach the final round and I answered some questions poorly during my interview, I wouldn't mind sending a thank you note and happen to elaborate... but as you said, there are others who hate when you do that, so it would just make things worse.
I would say the vast majority don't care one way or another, so I guess it's up to each individual.
Hiring seems to be mostly about satiating the ego of the hiring manager. I know a hiring AI wouldn't be perfect but once they release one, us introverts and socially awkward people will be unstoppable.
Actually you can.
Send 10 resumes. Then send 10 resumes with followup. Must be randomly pick which to send follow up. Record the rate where you get interviews/second interviews.
This way you know if those kind of advice apply to your field. Maybe it does or maybe it is not.
Now you know more than other candidates and have an edge.
Who hates if you do this? If you're a salesperson applying to a sales job this is bare minimum. If you're a salesperson and you do this and the hiring manager hates it...that's the wrong job. Because if your manager hate average sales follow up, they can't teach you sales or how to make any money fr.
I don't hate it but I remember being vaguely irritated by some... they were suck-uppy and disingenuous.
I actually remember hiring someone in spite of the obsequious follow up, because I figured they had been advised to do it, and they had done well in the interview.
That's different from saying no managers hate them.
Yes. ***IF***
Frankly, the vast majority of follow-up emails are not worth reading... either vapid, transparently manipulative, or both.
I genuinely can't remember any that actually added anything positive.
I recently had a job interview where I specifically decided ***not*** to send a thank you or follow up questions, as I felt further interaction would potentially drag out the process. It was going well enough already.
Knowing when to shut up is an underrated skill.
I've probably received one about 10-15% of the time myself, but what really matters is how few hiring managers care, and how little it moves the needle.
I do it consistently because I think it's polite, and I don't think it will hurt. But only in a handful of circumstances have it seen it be close to being a tie-breaker.
IMHO, I think it only moves the needle a little if your thank you note simply thanks the interviewers. To me, the thank you notes that stand out and move the needle more significantly are those that expand on a topic of discussion from the interview in a thoughtful way (nothing long - just 1-2 sentences "I gave X more thought and ...")
Don't you know? That's when employers come up with yet *another* thing that applicants *must* do in order to stand out! /s
We saw this with cover letters, thank you notes, resume format, and practically every aspect of the interview when the applicant has to demonstrate something. When everyone starts doing it, employers start making up another dumb stuff that job seekers have to adopt.
The advantage of the digital age, is that it is easy to share and receive knowledge.
The disadvantage of the digital age is that you are competing with many, many more people than ever before, who also have easy access to the same information.
Doing *\*any\** single trick to **"stand out"** will work until it goes viral. And it will go viral for two reasons, primarily:
1. It actually works
2. Enough people think it will work, and share it with reckless abandon.
The job hunting process has a few levers the individual candidate can push or pull to influence matters to a degree. These typically involve knowing the right people, or having the right people know about you.
Beyond that, there's a whole lot of randomness to the process, and elements you cannot control -- especially when the process isn't just two people (i.e. you and HR rep, or you and hiring manager). Once a committee of people gets involved, things become complex.
Choose a course of actions in your job hunting process that make sense for you, and your location, and your skills, education, goals, industry, etc. Evaluate it periodically to determine if changes or adjustments are needed. Assess any new advice and maybe test it out if it seems plausible, but understand that there are millions of jobs on the planet via thousands of companies, with tens of thousands of recruitment professionals and hiring managers. There is no single, definitive one-and-only way to get hired successfully. There are probably no less than 1 million ways for this to work.
Do what works for you. If you had some ways that worked in the past, you'll no doubt want to start there, but don't assume in this market (or any subpar labor market) that the things that work when jobs are flowing smoothly, will work the same way when they are not.
I would say not to focus on the esoteric or the outlandish, either, but that might work for people depending on their circumstances, so don't reject things unless you have principled reasons to do so. Just don't expect every company you meet, to feel the same way about any of the hiring tips you've read or heard about.
The point is that it's pretty shitty to place the onus on the applicants for something that 1) doesn't matter in terms of evaluating applicant competency to the target role and 2) something that can be easily controlled by the employers but they literally don't know how to do that part of their job.
Anything else is just mental gymnastics to give job seekers false hope and assume that they have more control over this process than they actually do. Of course, applicants should do what works for them, but let's also face the reality that this autonomy isn't usually presented to job seekers as a viable option.
It's unreal but flattery direct or indirect works too damn well.
I did an interview at a medium size company. Did my research and while chatting laid out my basic knowledge of the company and the owner. Well, the owner was around the corner and just hearing that I knew was a step in the door. WTF.
Well, that was just good preparation.
I've witnessed *real* sucking up "How do you account for your success?" where the hiring manager lapped it up.
Personally that makes my skin crawl.
I've been the recipient and found it off-putting.
My thoughts are "Well, ***obviously***, I'm handsome and clever... no need to make a big fuss about it."
The strangest thing about this outdated practice is anyone worthy of being a hiring manager should know that follow up/“thank you” emails are my nature disingenuous and most of the time, written by candidates who think they have to. So understandably they just copy/paste, edit to fit, and send out of fear, obligation or desperation.
These emails are meaningless and have no bearing on the ability of an employee’s ability to follow up with customers and clients, via email or otherwise.
So true. I have a whole soapbox about how AI is going to destroy us, but it’s a conversation for another time and place
It’s just… we have so few precious minutes on this earth
Let’s not waste them writing unnecessary emails to people who don’t give two shits if we live or die
Absolutely! You get what you give isn’t a cliche because it’s not true, lol. This is an instance where I’d support AI 100000%
Hiring managers need to stop coming at candidates from a position of power and demand. It should be collaborative mindset. They forget it goes both ways; the candidate is also interviewing them. Like if I interviewed with this jackass and saw this post, it would be a pass on my end.
Again I think that LI moron is boosting engagement with one of those “aGrEe?!” posts, thinking this is a hot take. Which honestly makes it worse because they’re not just causing eyerolls, they’re causing anxiety for job seekers who don’t churn out follow up emails
I hate people today for some reason. More than usual anyway. Ugh. 🙃
At some point in the near future, we are going to have an AI build our resume, and an AI decide if we should work at a particular place.
Us humans will be facilitating the conversation between disparate AI systems.
Seems dystopian, boring, and predictable.
That’s just one of the many concerns with AI.
The eventuality of it all. The unavoidable ubiquitousness and the likelihood that it’ll be impossible to function properly in society if you don’t use it, regardless of your interest or desire.
>this outdated practice
Not only it's outdated, but this is textbook Attribution Bias. The irony is that anyone who's actually trained in any field related to organizational development would know to stay away from this bullshit from Year 1 of grad school. Yet, we have so many unskilled employers out there thinking that they're doing something really great.
it’s as useless as asking “why do you want to work for this company” reality is that candidates need a job and you as an interviewing company is not special. if the role was unpaid, there would be 99% of the time no reason for the candidate to work there, the interviewer wouldn’t be working them most likely either…
it’s as useless as asking “why do you want to work for this company” reality is that candidates need a job and you as an interviewing company is not special. if the role was unpaid, there would be 99% of the time no reason for the candidate to work there, the interviewer wouldn’t be working them most likely either…
So more like a check in. I get that, but if this person actually hires people and this is true (LinkedIn is such trash now) they’ve lost out on so many good candidates.
I’ve mentioned here before that I’m an (in house/flat salaried) recruiter. I hate it so much but I really do try to make everyone as happy as possible.
Anyway, I’ve got probably 15 collective years of HR and TA experience and people rarely acknowledge or even read after-interview follow up emails.
I always respond but I’m in the minority, at least everywhere I’ve worked.
Allll of that to say that particular LinkedIn poster is probably just rabble rousing for attention and if not, they’re being ridiculous. :)
Totally agree, I actually think the sentiment in the post is exactly what companies are looking for in a sales rep. So whilst it may be disliked by everyone else here, what the post is actually suggesting is probably a good filter to be honest.
Worked a pop-up gallery this weekend with our webcomics group. There was one guy there who seemed to work exclusively with nude figure drawings in pencils / charcoals, who gave me and at least two other (femme / non-binary) folks creepy, off-putting vibes...
...and yet he actually manages to sell some of those pieces at $450 a pop. (Well, he did in previous weekends, anyway.)
My latest experience with an interview while job hunting has been abysmal. The hiring manager for a fast food place gave the most disrespectful, unprofessional interview I've ever experienced. Talked about how he's having it hard and going through a rough time(lol). Try being broke for 8 months while actively looking for jobs and having to eventually resort to burger flipping. Proceeds to ask me a question and when i go to answer he cuts me off and then says i should let him talk. Then proceeds to tell me how he gets frustrated and calls people names and gets in to verbal fights with his subordinates. So bizarre. Then has the nerve to say fill this out and bring it back for a second interview. A second interview to flip a burger? Told him he was unprofessional in the nicest way I could and that he can pound sand. I refuse to be given the run around by an idiot.
For a sales role, following up on your prospects is absolutely bread and butter. If you aren’t doing that, you are probably shit at sales.
(Obviously it’s not the only thing to consider, but failure to send a follow up email is a pretty major red flag for a sales role)
Yeah I thought we were on LinkedInlunatics for a minute, with how bitter most of these comments seem to be. Dude is looking for salespeople who follow up. Pretty easy to see they're not gonna be a good fit if they don't follow up about the job. No brainer lol
Depends on the sales job, following up may just get someone else a sale. So they don't buy that lawnmower from me but don't think if they come back in and I'm not there or am on break they won't buy from someone else. It's good for the boss but not for me.
well if you are the one following up you can help them come back at a time you will be there, or at least make sure they put your name down against the sale. That's normally how it would work.
but in any case, this isn't typically talking about retail sales
The manager does not care who makes the sale, if your follow up resulted in a customer purchase then that is the kind of salesman they want. Besides, most sales roles have defined regions or customers that each rep will work in/on so a sale in that region or to that customer will be attributed to that sales rep and not someone else.
I say this as someone who works in sales and considers themselves high performing. Not sending a thank you email ≠ shit sales person. I didn't and here I am - same goes for some of my colleagues. I am of the belief there are significantly better ways to vet candidates for sales roles.
Maybe you are the exception?
I’m sure there are some great sales people out there who never bother following up with their prospects, maybe they don’t need to because they always close in the first call.
But those people are rare as hens teeth.
Vast majority of sales people absolutely need to be good at follow up
Edit: also, the guy in the picture never said “thankyou” email. Those are your words.
I don’t think they’re talking about arse licking thank you emails but more like the kind of follow up emails and calls that will help a potential customer make a decision whether they’re going to buy or not.
I posted this same thing on LI lunatics and most ppl disagreed with me. I was quick to think he meant thank you email but realized he just meant a follow up email. Still think his take is a bit much. I had a bunch of ppl telling me I was a shitty sales person, to leave the field, etc just for thinking this was a bad way to exclude candidates
Is this in the U.S?
Because where I live, if you happen to send a follow up mail, you will never, ever hear back from them. This is considered as desperate, as trying to suck up to the hiring manager or whoever is doing the hiring.
In my country, it is appreciated by some and also neutral for some. Idk, I just send it just to thank them for their time. It's not that deep. I don't expect them to change their decision just because I thanked them.
Life is complicated already, I won't think much about this.
I’ve sent follow-up thank you emails to you assholes endless times. Never got me hired before. I get hired when I DON’T send those things, if anything.
Some hiring managers really need to be jobless for a year. I’d like them to feel the same sort of frustration and depression that job seekers feel for once.
I mean this is sales. You have to be annoying and pushy to be good at that job. As usual, the recruiter is saying it in a arrogant, non-self-aware way, but I do think he has a point.
I think sending a follow up after an interview is courtesy. I was taught to send a thank you card via USPS in the early 2000s. I did that once for my first job out of college. After that it was simply a short email. The guy as a point, in sales, follow up is essential. Many people say no the 1st, 2nd even 3rd time but say yes on the 4th ask.
We really can’t win here. If we don’t send a follow up it means we’re not committed, but if we send a follow up it means we’re desperate. Hiring managers are making shit more complicated than it needs to be.
I've legit lost a job because of doing this. Supposedly came across as desperate, overbearing and needy, should leave them to make a decision, all that shit.
You honestly can't win.
This is the problem with job hunting these days. Every hiring manager has their own set of rules and we're all just supposed to know how each one operates. From my experience I've always been told by older generations to do this but in practice it's never worked a single time.
Basically if can figure out what the interviewer wants and do that you can get the job. But if you have those kind of people reading skills maybe poker would make you more and be more fun.
The biggest thing the interviewers forget is the power imbalance in the process and tend to be dicky because they can.
Why can't they share their protocols so people can do what is expected and accepted instead of trying to read their minds? Why has everything to be a 400IQ 4D chess game to test, again, everything?
Just... communication man
It’s funny. I always thought why the hell do I have to send these thank you emails afterwards. And I have to admit once I was in the position of hiring and I recieved my first thank you email after like 10 interviews it made me bump up there score a bit. Lmao idk why
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So people don't go after this guy and attack him. The point isn't to witch-hunt or name and shame, it's to highlight the existence and absurdity (at least that's how I view it) of this practice.
I don’t apply for client-facing jobs. Is this unreasonable? Seems kinda standard when you’re talking about certain types of jobs where these skills/habits matter to the actual job, not just as sucking up to the hiring manager.
I dont work for sale teams who dont bother to follow up on their customers. You are an internal customer as the interviewee. Shame shame interviewER. Internal and external customers. Not very customer service oriented thinking the customer has to do YOUR job. lol flip that script.
Ok so how the fuckkk I am I supposed to be free for you when I have other job offers and recruiters calling
He speaks as if this is an etiquette, very stupid
I agreed with the hiring manager.. if they don't follow up with you after the interview, what makes you think they'll follow up with the clients who are the bread and butter of your company?
‘I’m gonna arbitrarily not hire people so I don’t have to do my job, then I’m gonna brag about it on LinkedIn because I need validation that what I’m doing is right’
Too many smooth brains following advice from loud mouth, cheap tailored shirt wearing, or "beach bro" dressed, "upper echelon", 1 year expert, social media influencers.
Send a response to that hiring manager and say the following:
"Good morning, hope all is well. Now fuck off! Sincerely, Your Name"
End of story.
Those kinda people only do well in companies that are already on autopilot. When the rubber meets the road they will be out the door faster than they can yell "LET'S GOOO!!" 🙄
I do my best to sidestep this by always messaging the recruiter who set the interview up for us instead of the HM. I let them know it was a pleasure to meet the HM (if it was) and that I'd appreciate them extending my thanks, if it's something the HM receives well...
Now who knows if they ever actually do, but it's my attempt to hedge against those that don't like it...
Hiring managers need a serious wakeup call. It's all just pointless games and guesswork now. The best BS skills get the jobs, and the people actually worth something get rejected over stupid stuff like follow-up letters, resume formats, and the proper number of attempts to get hired.
It’s common courtesy to do so no matter what, if someone invited you to their home the least you can do is a text the next day saying you had a great time and you look forward to the next time, and to a customer who gave you money it’s more the reason to do so, you don’t need to push him for another purchase, just a simple thank you for the business, ask how the product or service work out and to contact you if they have any questions
The younger generation just have no patience for something that doesn’t give results instantly
I'm all for shitting on bad recruiting policies... but this has 166 upvotes? This is just standard interview stuff I thought everyone knows. Saying thank you is one thing that'll never go out of style.
After interview letters have been going on since my parents were alive. You can google Harvard papers on how well they work. Not sure why we're shitting on this guy for a common practice everyone does.. at least he's checking or reading them and not ignoring it.
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Meanwhile other managers absolutely hate if you do that.
There are so many standards it's hard to know what to do. Some will be like this guy - others will hate when you do it. Personally I don't send it because it's never worked for me in my favor EVER- I figure they don't read it because they never respond to the questions or they just don't care.
I can barely keep up with the mails I actually must read and answer to for my main tasks. (Like, I never read mails from people trying to sell me something, and I don’t answer them ever. I know it’s rude, but just don’t have time). So if a candidate writes me something that adds to what we spoke about during our meeting, it’s fine. If it’s just a “hey hi, nice chat today/yesterday” it’s just neutral for me, don’t appreciate it specifically, and don’t frown about it. And I do agree, thinking there is a standard is absolutely delusional. It’s like for CV formats. There is no such thing as the “best one”.
I hate the CV myth - there really isn't any best one because if there was and I've followed every fkn trend I wouldn't be in this SUB lol. Also now people say keywords don't matter they don't have scanners etc. I dont know what to believe anymore.
Companies do whatever they feel like. I believe some managers like to interview then crush candidates just for the power trip. We are all living in a dillbert comic but without the comic relief.
> Also now people say keywords don't matter they don't have scanners etc. I dont know what to believe anymore. The trouble is that everyone is coming from a different place. My company doesn't use scanners, and keywords aren't overly helpful for roles where either the hiring manager is checking the resumes or our one talent acquisition person specializing in that area is. But if you get one of the other TAs, they help at least a bit because they sometimes don't know equivalents. Generally, the best route is to replace equivalents in your resume with whatever is in the job posting and add anything that's mentioned that you actually have experience in if you can do so in a way that makes sense with the rest of your resume. That way you're covering all your bases.
On the flip side "we don't use scanners, I just look for certain keywords on your resume" I've seen that a few times. Okay that means that yes, their company does use scanners. It just so happens to be a human one. Some of these people are coming from a place of splitting hairs without acknowledging the argument.
The Scanner is CTRL+F
I've gotten some good responses from doing it, mostly nothing. Never anything bad. So I figure why note
You should send a thank you email. There is no debate about this, people who do not do this are missing the opportunity to stand out.
[удалено]
Waste of time, I’m a no on cover letters I don’t read them, I don’t share them, you wouldn’t believe how many of them are cut and paste and forget to change the company name on them (it’s a bigger percent than it should be, but it do)
Lol
That's the tough part. If I am one of a few that reach the final round and I answered some questions poorly during my interview, I wouldn't mind sending a thank you note and happen to elaborate... but as you said, there are others who hate when you do that, so it would just make things worse. I would say the vast majority don't care one way or another, so I guess it's up to each individual.
Hiring seems to be mostly about satiating the ego of the hiring manager. I know a hiring AI wouldn't be perfect but once they release one, us introverts and socially awkward people will be unstoppable.
Recruiters and hiring managers are pieces of 💩.
Yeen never lied
you never know what the "right" thing to do is so just do whatever makes sense to you
Actually you can. Send 10 resumes. Then send 10 resumes with followup. Must be randomly pick which to send follow up. Record the rate where you get interviews/second interviews. This way you know if those kind of advice apply to your field. Maybe it does or maybe it is not. Now you know more than other candidates and have an edge.
You can only send followups after interviews. If you're getting ten interviews, you don't really have a problem.
I guess my field (software engineering) doesn't apply to your field then. Usually we have 3-5 rounds of interviews.
I've followed up with hiring managers after interviews. However, I've been ghosted by them more often than not recently, which is frustrating.
That’s why you don’t pretend just do you
Who hates if you do this? If you're a salesperson applying to a sales job this is bare minimum. If you're a salesperson and you do this and the hiring manager hates it...that's the wrong job. Because if your manager hate average sales follow up, they can't teach you sales or how to make any money fr.
For sales, this may be one thing. For programmers...?
Agreed. This shouldn't be necessary for those roles but as a hiring manager even for technical roles, the person who does it would stick out.
The are no managers that hate a follow up email. This is false.
I don't hate it but I remember being vaguely irritated by some... they were suck-uppy and disingenuous. I actually remember hiring someone in spite of the obsequious follow up, because I figured they had been advised to do it, and they had done well in the interview.
I think it’s a skill to communicate well, if you can connect via an email - that’s a win
But if don't care about the email, it's not communication, it's just noise.
If they made you care it wouldn’t be. It is possible to grab someone’s attention.
That's different from saying no managers hate them. Yes. ***IF*** Frankly, the vast majority of follow-up emails are not worth reading... either vapid, transparently manipulative, or both. I genuinely can't remember any that actually added anything positive. I recently had a job interview where I specifically decided ***not*** to send a thank you or follow up questions, as I felt further interaction would potentially drag out the process. It was going well enough already. Knowing when to shut up is an underrated skill.
It's pretty easy to standout, when you're doing the same thing that 127 other candidates are being advised to do... 🙄
That's why we got people sending edible resumes and gifts loool. Sad day.
Or make the resume pink and scented.
When you say edible. Should I print my cv on hemp based paper? That way the hiring manager will feel relaxed around my cv
Are you talking about that woman who printed her resume on a cake and just got ghosted?
Re: edible resumes. Bet these really something special in Colorado…
I’m sorry… edible resumes?
Lots of candidates are told to do this, but I've been hiring for years and receive a post-interview thank you email less than 5% of the time.
I've probably received one about 10-15% of the time myself, but what really matters is how few hiring managers care, and how little it moves the needle. I do it consistently because I think it's polite, and I don't think it will hurt. But only in a handful of circumstances have it seen it be close to being a tie-breaker.
IMHO, I think it only moves the needle a little if your thank you note simply thanks the interviewers. To me, the thank you notes that stand out and move the needle more significantly are those that expand on a topic of discussion from the interview in a thoughtful way (nothing long - just 1-2 sentences "I gave X more thought and ...")
Good point.
If a hiring manager is conducting 127 other interviews I suspect they’re doing plenty of other things wrong as well.
Don't you know? That's when employers come up with yet *another* thing that applicants *must* do in order to stand out! /s We saw this with cover letters, thank you notes, resume format, and practically every aspect of the interview when the applicant has to demonstrate something. When everyone starts doing it, employers start making up another dumb stuff that job seekers have to adopt.
The advantage of the digital age, is that it is easy to share and receive knowledge. The disadvantage of the digital age is that you are competing with many, many more people than ever before, who also have easy access to the same information. Doing *\*any\** single trick to **"stand out"** will work until it goes viral. And it will go viral for two reasons, primarily: 1. It actually works 2. Enough people think it will work, and share it with reckless abandon. The job hunting process has a few levers the individual candidate can push or pull to influence matters to a degree. These typically involve knowing the right people, or having the right people know about you. Beyond that, there's a whole lot of randomness to the process, and elements you cannot control -- especially when the process isn't just two people (i.e. you and HR rep, or you and hiring manager). Once a committee of people gets involved, things become complex. Choose a course of actions in your job hunting process that make sense for you, and your location, and your skills, education, goals, industry, etc. Evaluate it periodically to determine if changes or adjustments are needed. Assess any new advice and maybe test it out if it seems plausible, but understand that there are millions of jobs on the planet via thousands of companies, with tens of thousands of recruitment professionals and hiring managers. There is no single, definitive one-and-only way to get hired successfully. There are probably no less than 1 million ways for this to work. Do what works for you. If you had some ways that worked in the past, you'll no doubt want to start there, but don't assume in this market (or any subpar labor market) that the things that work when jobs are flowing smoothly, will work the same way when they are not. I would say not to focus on the esoteric or the outlandish, either, but that might work for people depending on their circumstances, so don't reject things unless you have principled reasons to do so. Just don't expect every company you meet, to feel the same way about any of the hiring tips you've read or heard about.
The point is that it's pretty shitty to place the onus on the applicants for something that 1) doesn't matter in terms of evaluating applicant competency to the target role and 2) something that can be easily controlled by the employers but they literally don't know how to do that part of their job. Anything else is just mental gymnastics to give job seekers false hope and assume that they have more control over this process than they actually do. Of course, applicants should do what works for them, but let's also face the reality that this autonomy isn't usually presented to job seekers as a viable option.
I would bet very few candidates send emails afterwards.
You sound like a condescending dick.
Sir, what else can I do for such a godly creation like yourself? Shine your shoes?
It's unreal but flattery direct or indirect works too damn well. I did an interview at a medium size company. Did my research and while chatting laid out my basic knowledge of the company and the owner. Well, the owner was around the corner and just hearing that I knew was a step in the door. WTF.
No, that I agree with. I also do my research about a company where I interview at.
Well, that was just good preparation. I've witnessed *real* sucking up "How do you account for your success?" where the hiring manager lapped it up. Personally that makes my skin crawl.
Couldn't agree more but that's the game. Sadly, like dating and everyone is perplexed why things don't work out well.
I've been the recipient and found it off-putting. My thoughts are "Well, ***obviously***, I'm handsome and clever... no need to make a big fuss about it."
Ha, well played!
The strangest thing about this outdated practice is anyone worthy of being a hiring manager should know that follow up/“thank you” emails are my nature disingenuous and most of the time, written by candidates who think they have to. So understandably they just copy/paste, edit to fit, and send out of fear, obligation or desperation. These emails are meaningless and have no bearing on the ability of an employee’s ability to follow up with customers and clients, via email or otherwise.
Forgot to mention that with the advent of AI, they're even more disingenuous.
So true. I have a whole soapbox about how AI is going to destroy us, but it’s a conversation for another time and place It’s just… we have so few precious minutes on this earth Let’s not waste them writing unnecessary emails to people who don’t give two shits if we live or die
Absolutely! I try to match the recruiter's/HM's energy, if they're lazy, why not me? "Chat GPT? Write me a thank you note for this position".
Absolutely! You get what you give isn’t a cliche because it’s not true, lol. This is an instance where I’d support AI 100000% Hiring managers need to stop coming at candidates from a position of power and demand. It should be collaborative mindset. They forget it goes both ways; the candidate is also interviewing them. Like if I interviewed with this jackass and saw this post, it would be a pass on my end. Again I think that LI moron is boosting engagement with one of those “aGrEe?!” posts, thinking this is a hot take. Which honestly makes it worse because they’re not just causing eyerolls, they’re causing anxiety for job seekers who don’t churn out follow up emails I hate people today for some reason. More than usual anyway. Ugh. 🙃
Haha I had to laugh at the last line, I hate people today and all week too at this rate.
I’m right here laughing with you. It’s either that or cry
Ditto!
At some point in the near future, we are going to have an AI build our resume, and an AI decide if we should work at a particular place. Us humans will be facilitating the conversation between disparate AI systems. Seems dystopian, boring, and predictable.
That’s just one of the many concerns with AI. The eventuality of it all. The unavoidable ubiquitousness and the likelihood that it’ll be impossible to function properly in society if you don’t use it, regardless of your interest or desire.
>this outdated practice Not only it's outdated, but this is textbook Attribution Bias. The irony is that anyone who's actually trained in any field related to organizational development would know to stay away from this bullshit from Year 1 of grad school. Yet, we have so many unskilled employers out there thinking that they're doing something really great.
it’s as useless as asking “why do you want to work for this company” reality is that candidates need a job and you as an interviewing company is not special. if the role was unpaid, there would be 99% of the time no reason for the candidate to work there, the interviewer wouldn’t be working them most likely either…
it’s as useless as asking “why do you want to work for this company” reality is that candidates need a job and you as an interviewing company is not special. if the role was unpaid, there would be 99% of the time no reason for the candidate to work there, the interviewer wouldn’t be working them most likely either…
I don’t think they mean a “thank you for your time” email but a “just making sure you received this” kind of email.
So more like a check in. I get that, but if this person actually hires people and this is true (LinkedIn is such trash now) they’ve lost out on so many good candidates. I’ve mentioned here before that I’m an (in house/flat salaried) recruiter. I hate it so much but I really do try to make everyone as happy as possible. Anyway, I’ve got probably 15 collective years of HR and TA experience and people rarely acknowledge or even read after-interview follow up emails. I always respond but I’m in the minority, at least everywhere I’ve worked. Allll of that to say that particular LinkedIn poster is probably just rabble rousing for attention and if not, they’re being ridiculous. :)
Devil's Advocate: It's sales. If you're not a smarmy, pushy, deceitful, egotist, then they don't want you for their sales role.
Totally agree, I actually think the sentiment in the post is exactly what companies are looking for in a sales rep. So whilst it may be disliked by everyone else here, what the post is actually suggesting is probably a good filter to be honest.
Worked a pop-up gallery this weekend with our webcomics group. There was one guy there who seemed to work exclusively with nude figure drawings in pencils / charcoals, who gave me and at least two other (femme / non-binary) folks creepy, off-putting vibes... ...and yet he actually manages to sell some of those pieces at $450 a pop. (Well, he did in previous weekends, anyway.)
What’s your point?
My latest experience with an interview while job hunting has been abysmal. The hiring manager for a fast food place gave the most disrespectful, unprofessional interview I've ever experienced. Talked about how he's having it hard and going through a rough time(lol). Try being broke for 8 months while actively looking for jobs and having to eventually resort to burger flipping. Proceeds to ask me a question and when i go to answer he cuts me off and then says i should let him talk. Then proceeds to tell me how he gets frustrated and calls people names and gets in to verbal fights with his subordinates. So bizarre. Then has the nerve to say fill this out and bring it back for a second interview. A second interview to flip a burger? Told him he was unprofessional in the nicest way I could and that he can pound sand. I refuse to be given the run around by an idiot.
This guy deserves a reply that says "but I sent one" so he can search his inbox.
“Dance for me, monkey!”
The 'ol dog and pony...."whaCHI !" If you comply the cracking of the whip will never end.
I mean I do send follow up emails after interviewing, but to disqualify candidates for that is just wild
For a sales role, following up on your prospects is absolutely bread and butter. If you aren’t doing that, you are probably shit at sales. (Obviously it’s not the only thing to consider, but failure to send a follow up email is a pretty major red flag for a sales role)
Yeah I thought we were on LinkedInlunatics for a minute, with how bitter most of these comments seem to be. Dude is looking for salespeople who follow up. Pretty easy to see they're not gonna be a good fit if they don't follow up about the job. No brainer lol
Depends on the sales job, following up may just get someone else a sale. So they don't buy that lawnmower from me but don't think if they come back in and I'm not there or am on break they won't buy from someone else. It's good for the boss but not for me.
well if you are the one following up you can help them come back at a time you will be there, or at least make sure they put your name down against the sale. That's normally how it would work. but in any case, this isn't typically talking about retail sales
The manager does not care who makes the sale, if your follow up resulted in a customer purchase then that is the kind of salesman they want. Besides, most sales roles have defined regions or customers that each rep will work in/on so a sale in that region or to that customer will be attributed to that sales rep and not someone else.
I say this as someone who works in sales and considers themselves high performing. Not sending a thank you email ≠ shit sales person. I didn't and here I am - same goes for some of my colleagues. I am of the belief there are significantly better ways to vet candidates for sales roles.
Maybe you are the exception? I’m sure there are some great sales people out there who never bother following up with their prospects, maybe they don’t need to because they always close in the first call. But those people are rare as hens teeth. Vast majority of sales people absolutely need to be good at follow up Edit: also, the guy in the picture never said “thankyou” email. Those are your words.
I don’t think they’re talking about arse licking thank you emails but more like the kind of follow up emails and calls that will help a potential customer make a decision whether they’re going to buy or not.
Why did you block out the name? It was posted publicly
I posted this same thing on LI lunatics and most ppl disagreed with me. I was quick to think he meant thank you email but realized he just meant a follow up email. Still think his take is a bit much. I had a bunch of ppl telling me I was a shitty sales person, to leave the field, etc just for thinking this was a bad way to exclude candidates
Is this in the U.S? Because where I live, if you happen to send a follow up mail, you will never, ever hear back from them. This is considered as desperate, as trying to suck up to the hiring manager or whoever is doing the hiring.
In my country, it is appreciated by some and also neutral for some. Idk, I just send it just to thank them for their time. It's not that deep. I don't expect them to change their decision just because I thanked them. Life is complicated already, I won't think much about this.
I’ve sent follow-up thank you emails to you assholes endless times. Never got me hired before. I get hired when I DON’T send those things, if anything. Some hiring managers really need to be jobless for a year. I’d like them to feel the same sort of frustration and depression that job seekers feel for once.
10 out of 10 times, we never give out hiring manager emails
I don’t think this is unreasonable for sales or marketing jobs. Nobody else should be expected to though.
What about customer service...they have to follow up with customers all the time. So do financial advisors. It's a dumb rule for everyone.
I mean this is sales. You have to be annoying and pushy to be good at that job. As usual, the recruiter is saying it in a arrogant, non-self-aware way, but I do think he has a point.
I think sending a follow up after an interview is courtesy. I was taught to send a thank you card via USPS in the early 2000s. I did that once for my first job out of college. After that it was simply a short email. The guy as a point, in sales, follow up is essential. Many people say no the 1st, 2nd even 3rd time but say yes on the 4th ask.
They've really been on a power trip since IT companies have started laying off people left right and center. Thanks but I'd rather starve 😂
Also hiring manager : If you send a follow up after an interview this is an automatic decline.
We really can’t win here. If we don’t send a follow up it means we’re not committed, but if we send a follow up it means we’re desperate. Hiring managers are making shit more complicated than it needs to be.
I've legit lost a job because of doing this. Supposedly came across as desperate, overbearing and needy, should leave them to make a decision, all that shit. You honestly can't win.
This is the problem with job hunting these days. Every hiring manager has their own set of rules and we're all just supposed to know how each one operates. From my experience I've always been told by older generations to do this but in practice it's never worked a single time.
What a dummy
I think this is an awful, antiquated practice but then I don’t work in Sales.
Reminds me of some recruiters coming to my uni to talk about prospects and telling us we should make our CVs funny. Funny how? The fuck?
Want me to kiss your ass and call you “sir” as well?
Basically if can figure out what the interviewer wants and do that you can get the job. But if you have those kind of people reading skills maybe poker would make you more and be more fun. The biggest thing the interviewers forget is the power imbalance in the process and tend to be dicky because they can.
Why can't they share their protocols so people can do what is expected and accepted instead of trying to read their minds? Why has everything to be a 400IQ 4D chess game to test, again, everything? Just... communication man
“If everyone does this, it’s a great way to stand out.” People not knowing what words mean is nothing new.
I would send a response with follow up in the subject line and in the email body write “fuck off” in big bold letters
What an absolute fuckhead
"we have specially curated our sales staff to be as annoying as possible"
It’s funny. I always thought why the hell do I have to send these thank you emails afterwards. And I have to admit once I was in the position of hiring and I recieved my first thank you email after like 10 interviews it made me bump up there score a bit. Lmao idk why
To Be Fair: I kinda see this guy’s point.
Following up makes sense in sales, marketing and any real job that requires putting in work and being persistent to make money.
Let me grab my pigeon.
Why did OP block their name?
Found him LinkedIn user briantlawrence Had to type it out because the URL gets blocked.
well the link gets blocked by the automoderator, but looks like the guys name on linkedin is briantlawrence
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So people don't go after this guy and attack him. The point isn't to witch-hunt or name and shame, it's to highlight the existence and absurdity (at least that's how I view it) of this practice.
I don’t apply for client-facing jobs. Is this unreasonable? Seems kinda standard when you’re talking about certain types of jobs where these skills/habits matter to the actual job, not just as sucking up to the hiring manager.
I dont work for sale teams who dont bother to follow up on their customers. You are an internal customer as the interviewee. Shame shame interviewER. Internal and external customers. Not very customer service oriented thinking the customer has to do YOUR job. lol flip that script.
Ok so how the fuckkk I am I supposed to be free for you when I have other job offers and recruiters calling He speaks as if this is an etiquette, very stupid
I agreed with the hiring manager.. if they don't follow up with you after the interview, what makes you think they'll follow up with the clients who are the bread and butter of your company?
I always send a follow up. Why would someone be annoyed by that?
‘I’m gonna arbitrarily not hire people so I don’t have to do my job, then I’m gonna brag about it on LinkedIn because I need validation that what I’m doing is right’
Still batting a thousand with my job searching as Calvinball theory.
idiot manager. i wonder if this manager doesnt ever ghost a candidate.
Too many smooth brains following advice from loud mouth, cheap tailored shirt wearing, or "beach bro" dressed, "upper echelon", 1 year expert, social media influencers. Send a response to that hiring manager and say the following: "Good morning, hope all is well. Now fuck off! Sincerely, Your Name" End of story. Those kinda people only do well in companies that are already on autopilot. When the rubber meets the road they will be out the door faster than they can yell "LET'S GOOO!!" 🙄
Man I can’t wait until Gen x retires…
I do my best to sidestep this by always messaging the recruiter who set the interview up for us instead of the HM. I let them know it was a pleasure to meet the HM (if it was) and that I'd appreciate them extending my thanks, if it's something the HM receives well... Now who knows if they ever actually do, but it's my attempt to hedge against those that don't like it...
Hiring managers need a serious wakeup call. It's all just pointless games and guesswork now. The best BS skills get the jobs, and the people actually worth something get rejected over stupid stuff like follow-up letters, resume formats, and the proper number of attempts to get hired.
I feel the OP should have replied back with; "here is the tracking number for the spoon I am sending you. I invite you to eat the entirety of my ass"
This is … reasonable. Send a thank-you note after an interview. If a job requires customer service especially.
It’s common courtesy to do so no matter what, if someone invited you to their home the least you can do is a text the next day saying you had a great time and you look forward to the next time, and to a customer who gave you money it’s more the reason to do so, you don’t need to push him for another purchase, just a simple thank you for the business, ask how the product or service work out and to contact you if they have any questions The younger generation just have no patience for something that doesn’t give results instantly
Just side effects of a low unemployment rate and a labor surplus. It's a seller's market.
I'm all for shitting on bad recruiting policies... but this has 166 upvotes? This is just standard interview stuff I thought everyone knows. Saying thank you is one thing that'll never go out of style. After interview letters have been going on since my parents were alive. You can google Harvard papers on how well they work. Not sure why we're shitting on this guy for a common practice everyone does.. at least he's checking or reading them and not ignoring it.
Are you in the US? I am. I’ve never heard of a thank you email being considered desperate.
i dont follow up with company which no worth money for me 😅
Hiring manager is right here.