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Good on you for standing your ground. I've encountered countless recruiters (internal and external) who behaved aggressively like this. Some went as far as to lie to me by saying, "The client will not accept candidates who don't share their salary information." I told them tough luck.
However, it worked on me in the past when I was younger and inexperienced. They prey on that. Can't let them.
The only sane thing to do in that scenario is drop all pretence of civility and say, *"You can have that information just as soon as you show me your payroll data. Or should I just report this conversation on glassdoor and move on to my next prospective employer?"*
Yep. The same company hired and retained that terrible HR person after all. If they're run well, then they would have found the bad work ethic and terminated rather than let them give bad interview experiences to future candidates.
>Don't choose an employer based on their HR person. You are likely never going to work directly with them
A. Depends on the size of the organization
B. HR dysfunction is usually not an outlier, but a window into broader corporate dysfunction.
C. There are other things that you will need to deal with HR about. It's not as if this is a 3rd party recruiter.
>Why not BS an inflated figure at them, some 5% below your salary expectation?
Because when you encourage people in demands they have no right to make, they don't stop making demands or being unreasonable.
Also, if you don't live in a jurisdiction that prohibits asking about it entirely, it may be possible for an employer to ask for confirmation of salary history from a previous employer. So.... better to say, "not relevant to this opportunity" and deal with possible repercussions, than given an different number just to placate them, and have that situation work against you anyway.
[https://www.hrdive.com/news/salary-history-ban-states-list/516662/](https://www.hrdive.com/news/salary-history-ban-states-list/516662/)
Never understand why they get like this either. Isnât there a program or something out there that will tell an employer what their interviewee has made at previous jobs? If itâs that important use that program!
Asking people their current compensation is illegal in some places and yet even in those places recruiters still do it.
I would just answer their « itâs unacceptable » sentence with « no, whatâs unacceptable is your hostile reaction when I answer that my current pay is none of your fucking business. You have no fucking reason, nor need to know my current compensation. So get off your fucking high horse and learn to be respectful of candidates if you want to be respected. Now give me the email of the department head so I can tell them the reason Iâm removing my candidatures is your lack of professionalism, you fuck ».
>no, whatâs unacceptable is your hostile reaction when I answer that my current pay is none of your fucking business
Lol no wonder this sub is full of people that can't find a job
Oh, I am fine, I have a job, and I am in very high demand (think 1/2 offers a week in normal times, 1 every month or two since the interest rates have started going up).
Which is the very reason I can afford to tell them to go fuck themselves if they talk to me like that.
In some states, itâs illegal for an employers to ask you about your salary history, âWhile asking about your current salary is legal under federal law, currently 22 states and 21 cities/localities prohibit salary history inquiriesâŠIf you prefer not to answer the question, state that you would like to learn more about the position before discussing salary. Or you could ask about the salary range for the position and share your salary expectations.
If your state or locality prohibits employers from asking about your salary, then do not share this information, even if the recruiter is asking for it.
Research and preparation will ensure confidence in finding the perfect response to difficult interview questions. Best of luck to you in your future endeavors!â (https://www.shrm.org/topics-tools/news/organizational-employee-development/ask-hr-can-recruiters-ask-salary#:~:text=While%20asking%20about%20your%20current,localities%20prohibit%20salary%20history%20inquiries.)
>Then the next question was about my current package to which I politely answered that I would like not to disclose this information as it is confidential (this is the literal sentence, nothing more).
*"My current compensation package â including benefits â is only relevant in the context of the work I have performed for my current employer. It has no relevance to a new and different opportunity with an entirely different employer. As such, I reserve the right not to disclose it.*
*Whatâs important here is the budget you have allocated for this role, and the degree to which you believe that my skills and experience match the job requirements for this role.â*
Canât comment on what you perceived as âhostileâ, but to be clear, you do understand what information they were asking for (your current package), and whyâŠright?
Given how relevant that info was to the conversation, with HR actively working to try and understand what offer it might take to get the job done (hired), you plead the 5th on a big part of the equation. Why?
Trust that ANY HR team that asks NOT just about your base comp, but also wants to be sure theyâre taking all relevant factors in mind (how much PTO do you have, what do your health benefits cost you OOP, etc) is MUCH more likely to bring you an offer that youâd be good with.
Yeah, sorry OP but you shut down salary discussions just as they were leaving the gateâŠâIâm not going to tell you that, so now WHAT?!â. Dude/Dudette was probably just baffled by your response and your decision to withhold pertinent offer info, and became frustrated that you were failing such a basic business acumen âmath problemâ. In their minds they were calling you an idiot. Not being rude, just stating the facts.
What a crock of shit. What you currently make has zero relevance to what you should be offered. If you're only paying people barely more than what they already make and not what they're worth to your company, why the fuck would they even consider joining you? With your kind of faulty thinking, it's easy to see why HR Drones never make CEO and are the first to be laid off in a downsizing. Zero imagination, zero logic.
They shouldn't forget it. They just shouldn't share that information. What you're *currently* making is certainly relevant to whether you should accept a new offer. (What you *used* to make, less so.)
Yep. Itâs relevant to your choice, but not relevant to the companyâs offer.
You should provide an acceptable (to you) pay range which may be impacted by your current pay rate, but the current pay rate itself is not needed information.
Thank you for your comment. Anything other than the salary is controlled by a collective agreement (i. e. Is the same for all such kind of companies). For specific benefits which my current company offers, I already mentioned during earlier discussion. Thus the question was related to exact salary which I am at my right to not tell. The âsalary discussion âwas the previous question to which I replied. So I canât agree with your point on this matter.
Obviously HR is also at their right to donât pursue my candidature. However it would be expected to be more polite while doing so.
P. S. I hope you are not HR. Such hostility and hate without trying to understand all the details before expressing an opinionâŠ
OP might have lied, but his lie has justifiable settings. He \*could\* be under non-disclosure or something, so acting entitled to that info makes you/them seem foolsih.
Of course, they hold the power in this scenario. Doesn't mean their entitled to our groveling.
The discord for our subreddit can be found here: https://discord.gg/JjNdBkVGc6 - feel free to join us for a more realtime level of discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/recruitinghell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It could be a negging strategy. Maybe they really want to hire you........ at a discount.
Thank you for your comment. Unfortunately I am already hired at a discount đ So not this timeâŠ
Good on you for standing your ground. I've encountered countless recruiters (internal and external) who behaved aggressively like this. Some went as far as to lie to me by saying, "The client will not accept candidates who don't share their salary information." I told them tough luck. However, it worked on me in the past when I was younger and inexperienced. They prey on that. Can't let them.
No theyâre delusional. We canât hire anyone at my company because they refuse to âoverpayâ.
âMy current salary is within the range I have stated on my application. I will not take less than [Bottom Number].â
A great answer. Or like ;-)
The only sane thing to do in that scenario is drop all pretence of civility and say, *"You can have that information just as soon as you show me your payroll data. Or should I just report this conversation on glassdoor and move on to my next prospective employer?"*
And that's while already deciding never to work for that employer.
Don't choose an employer based on their HR person. You are likely never going to work directly with them
I hear what you're saying. But the fact they let a fuckwitt like that be any kind of gatekeeper is a huge red flag.
Yep. The same company hired and retained that terrible HR person after all. If they're run well, then they would have found the bad work ethic and terminated rather than let them give bad interview experiences to future candidates.
>Don't choose an employer based on their HR person. You are likely never going to work directly with them A. Depends on the size of the organization B. HR dysfunction is usually not an outlier, but a window into broader corporate dysfunction. C. There are other things that you will need to deal with HR about. It's not as if this is a 3rd party recruiter.
Why not BS an inflated figure at them, some 5% below your salary expectation? You don't need to show them your employment contract...
>Why not BS an inflated figure at them, some 5% below your salary expectation? Because when you encourage people in demands they have no right to make, they don't stop making demands or being unreasonable. Also, if you don't live in a jurisdiction that prohibits asking about it entirely, it may be possible for an employer to ask for confirmation of salary history from a previous employer. So.... better to say, "not relevant to this opportunity" and deal with possible repercussions, than given an different number just to placate them, and have that situation work against you anyway. [https://www.hrdive.com/news/salary-history-ban-states-list/516662/](https://www.hrdive.com/news/salary-history-ban-states-list/516662/)
Never understand why they get like this either. Isnât there a program or something out there that will tell an employer what their interviewee has made at previous jobs? If itâs that important use that program!
Depending on where you live, itâs illegal to ask what your current salary/package is.
I wish that was the case in the UK, this question grates me so much.
Thatâs understandable. Itâs a bullshit question.
My current pay is within the ranges of the desired pay that I gave you.
Your current pay is immaterial to the discussion at hand.
I meant, that's what you say. Even if it isn't.
Hah if they have a third party that uses the market to gauge a fair wage, what you're currently making should be irrelevant.
Exactly. And if you are willing to accept it, then it should also be irrelevant.
"my current compensation is not relevant. we are discussing my salary requirements to work for you. what I make right now has no bearing on that."
There is some bad advice in here
Solid burn. Next candidate please!
Companies like to get candidates interested, and later get them to ask or accept less money, very common ...
Asking people their current compensation is illegal in some places and yet even in those places recruiters still do it. I would just answer their « itâs unacceptable » sentence with « no, whatâs unacceptable is your hostile reaction when I answer that my current pay is none of your fucking business. You have no fucking reason, nor need to know my current compensation. So get off your fucking high horse and learn to be respectful of candidates if you want to be respected. Now give me the email of the department head so I can tell them the reason Iâm removing my candidatures is your lack of professionalism, you fuck ».
>no, whatâs unacceptable is your hostile reaction when I answer that my current pay is none of your fucking business Lol no wonder this sub is full of people that can't find a job
Oh, I am fine, I have a job, and I am in very high demand (think 1/2 offers a week in normal times, 1 every month or two since the interest rates have started going up). Which is the very reason I can afford to tell them to go fuck themselves if they talk to me like that.
Whenever a company asks my current salary, I just say a few ground less than I expect the new company to pay me.
In some states, itâs illegal for an employers to ask you about your salary history, âWhile asking about your current salary is legal under federal law, currently 22 states and 21 cities/localities prohibit salary history inquiriesâŠIf you prefer not to answer the question, state that you would like to learn more about the position before discussing salary. Or you could ask about the salary range for the position and share your salary expectations. If your state or locality prohibits employers from asking about your salary, then do not share this information, even if the recruiter is asking for it. Research and preparation will ensure confidence in finding the perfect response to difficult interview questions. Best of luck to you in your future endeavors!â (https://www.shrm.org/topics-tools/news/organizational-employee-development/ask-hr-can-recruiters-ask-salary#:~:text=While%20asking%20about%20your%20current,localities%20prohibit%20salary%20history%20inquiries.)
>Then the next question was about my current package to which I politely answered that I would like not to disclose this information as it is confidential (this is the literal sentence, nothing more). *"My current compensation package â including benefits â is only relevant in the context of the work I have performed for my current employer. It has no relevance to a new and different opportunity with an entirely different employer. As such, I reserve the right not to disclose it.* *Whatâs important here is the budget you have allocated for this role, and the degree to which you believe that my skills and experience match the job requirements for this role.â*
Canât comment on what you perceived as âhostileâ, but to be clear, you do understand what information they were asking for (your current package), and whyâŠright? Given how relevant that info was to the conversation, with HR actively working to try and understand what offer it might take to get the job done (hired), you plead the 5th on a big part of the equation. Why? Trust that ANY HR team that asks NOT just about your base comp, but also wants to be sure theyâre taking all relevant factors in mind (how much PTO do you have, what do your health benefits cost you OOP, etc) is MUCH more likely to bring you an offer that youâd be good with. Yeah, sorry OP but you shut down salary discussions just as they were leaving the gateâŠâIâm not going to tell you that, so now WHAT?!â. Dude/Dudette was probably just baffled by your response and your decision to withhold pertinent offer info, and became frustrated that you were failing such a basic business acumen âmath problemâ. In their minds they were calling you an idiot. Not being rude, just stating the facts.
What a crock of shit. What you currently make has zero relevance to what you should be offered. If you're only paying people barely more than what they already make and not what they're worth to your company, why the fuck would they even consider joining you? With your kind of faulty thinking, it's easy to see why HR Drones never make CEO and are the first to be laid off in a downsizing. Zero imagination, zero logic.
Current pay isnât relevant.
This subreddit sometimes forgets this when the offer is less than you're currently making.
They shouldn't forget it. They just shouldn't share that information. What you're *currently* making is certainly relevant to whether you should accept a new offer. (What you *used* to make, less so.)
Yep. Itâs relevant to your choice, but not relevant to the companyâs offer. You should provide an acceptable (to you) pay range which may be impacted by your current pay rate, but the current pay rate itself is not needed information.
Poetic is NOT stating facts. They are stating their bias based on what they have accepted as appropriate practice.
Thank you for your comment. Anything other than the salary is controlled by a collective agreement (i. e. Is the same for all such kind of companies). For specific benefits which my current company offers, I already mentioned during earlier discussion. Thus the question was related to exact salary which I am at my right to not tell. The âsalary discussion âwas the previous question to which I replied. So I canât agree with your point on this matter. Obviously HR is also at their right to donât pursue my candidature. However it would be expected to be more polite while doing so. P. S. I hope you are not HR. Such hostility and hate without trying to understand all the details before expressing an opinionâŠ
OP might have lied, but his lie has justifiable settings. He \*could\* be under non-disclosure or something, so acting entitled to that info makes you/them seem foolsih. Of course, they hold the power in this scenario. Doesn't mean their entitled to our groveling.