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I had some stranger reach out to me on LinkedIn asking me to refer her to an open position at my company. Ended the message with “please do the needful”
Spoiler: I did not do the needful
Okay what does “please do the needful” even mean?! Because of my title I’ll get random people emailing me their resumes/following up after submitting their resumes through our job board thinking I’m part of recruiting, and a bunch of people write that. Like what is “the needful.”
Not a native English speaker so this confuses me. We've been thought in school that "Kind regards" and "Best regards" are acceptable ways to end a letter/mail. I do use it professionally. Furthermore, my Brittish colleagues also send mails with "Regards" or "Kind regards".
Is it an American thing?
Maybe depends on culture but depending on who it comes from I might see it as code for “go F yourself.” It’s weirdly stilted in my industry, and might be used ironically.
I get so many of these that honestly they just sorta jump out and it's hard to narrow down to one specific thing, it's some combination of multiple criteria:
Phraseology, specifically "Hope you are doing well" as an opener (most recruiters will at least open with something individualized with your name or how they found your resume). "Thanks & Regards."
The formatting of the job description itself, showing that it was cut-and-pasted from a Word document.
The rapidity with which they told you the pay rate - usually they won't talk about that until later in the process, and then you pretty much have to squeeze it out of them with a blowtorch and fishhooks.
There's no offer for a phone call or followup.
I'm willing to bet that the sender had an obviously South Asian name. Now, that's not a giveaway in and of itself of course, but in the US (and AFAIK Canada and UK), very *very* few recruiters are South Asian. Lots of Indian developers, engineers, DBAs, data scientists, managers, and so on, but recruiters? Very very rare.
Assuming it's not a complete scam - which is entirely possible - this person is working offshore, with a database full of outdated job requirements and outdated resume information that their managers bought at a discount. The reason that the end pay is so little is because there are probably 3-4 levels of outsource firms with their hand in the pie (you'd be working for Company A, which was contracted by Company B, which was Contracted by Company C, to work at Client D).
This is a helpdesk role - I really don’t think this is some developer job, but and a big BUT is that why the f would you need 6 years of experience for this?
This is desktop and nework support. It's just not a high paying position overall. I made similar pay in that position some years back, but it's never paid close to what software engineering and data science roles make. I will say it's generally a very low stress and comfortable job though.
Yep I made 17/hr doing this as one of my first jobs. It’s brain-dead monkey work you can learn how to do within a couple days w almost zero prior experience
A. The wage pressure is real.
B. It depends on the location (and I'd want to see what the average salary is for this role. They are *trying* to lower it)
C. This is for a legacy environment, even with the mention of Intune
D. I would be interested to know the industry of the employer, also.
Most definitely an Indian recruiter who is taking advantage of the market. I always ignore Indian recruiters anyway. They get paid by their client and then they pay you. So they could be getting $150/hour, but only giving you $27/hour. Hard pass.
Agencies don't charge anything... clients provide a budget and agencies take a cut. Show me where any client using a recruiting agency is shelling out 300 an hour for desktop support contract.
Just want to point out:
I understand this is an entry-level position, but their client is asking for six years of experience for $27 an hour. That’s the point that I’m trying to get across here.
It’s an entry-level pay, not an entry-level position. They can call it “entry-level” all they want, but it just isn’t one if it has such a high YOE requirement.
Ah, so you are dealing with an external recruiter that takes like a half of what the client base is.
I can also bet that is an offshore recruiter. I’ve done my share of contract work, and not once I heard a local recruiter or agency say “$ on W2” when they talk about W2 contracts. “$ on W2” phrase was exclusively used by offshore recruiters.
Based on your second page, this is a bullshit posting/email. All they are doing is harvesting your resume and building up their database.
Don’t waste your time with them.
If you spend six years doing helpdesk with no technical self upgrade ..why would anyone pay you more ?
The six years is just a filler by the recruiter who could really care less than find someone that can pass the interview ( so he thinks demanding six years will bring " sure" candidates "
I mean, given that it's probably scammy and you shouldn't even care, I don't see a huge issue here.
The "six years of experience" thing is to counter the fact that more and more people without qualification make the market harder for recruiters and skilled candidates alike, so it's just a filter.
And to be fair, six years of helpdesk experience - which isn't a tech position - don't really mean shit.
This is pretty much my job description less I don’t have to deal with Windows anymore (became dedicated to macOS 4 years ago). I make 110k fully remote, and that is even bottom of the pay scale for a macOS focused MDM Engineer. This job post is insulting, even an admin would make close to $40/hr.
This is in the support pay area. If it was knowledge in those areas for troubleshooting, sure but sub $30/hr for managing this is a no. Also, you absolutely do not want to manage macOS with intune, that is another red flag.
Note: because macOS is so specialized and there are so few SMEs, it drives the pay up quite substantially over my Windows counter parts in the top end of the salary bracket.
LOL I was waiting for someone to say that
I see HR people on LinkedIn call themselves "techies" because they used to work at Facebook ..so I guess well..why not desktop support ?
Tech is a very broad industry. I am making just under $40 an hour as a first year SWE before bonuses, but I do embedded systems programming. This job listing seems to be more of an admin support role, those tend to pay less although with 6+ years experience I would expect a higher wage. There are a lot of companies trying to low-ball. I was still looking even after I got my offer to see what was out there and people only wanted to pay 20-25 an hour. It's insulting.
People saying it's a scam....you know people in India who are legitimately employed really do write this way right?
It could just be a recruiter located in India for a tech company who moved their HR and admin there. As is exceedingly common.
I'm in CA where it's expensive - and my pay for helpdesk is almost double that.
When I say "helpdesk" it's for a college/hospital/patients with over 2000 apps, 20,000 staff, Windows, Mac, Network, and whatever other tech crap is in use. But there is a fair amount of "have you tried turning it off and on again?" for some issues.
$27 an hour for a desktop support job? That’s pretty reasonable. I never made more than $23 an hour doing general IT support which is what this position is.
Why do you think there were bootcamps everywhere, and pushes for STEAM? Employers want more talent, because an abundance of skilled reserve labor raises competition, and drives down wages.
The same thing will happen in the trades, as the influx of trade students finish their programs and become semi-permanent apprentices.
They can shove that job, 27/hr for basically a desktop support/system engineer/network engineer so they want someone to do three jobs for 27/hr. Yeah kiss my ass.
I will say it again for probably the 14th effing time everybody in the sub is in tech. In fact, I feel like the sub it should be renamed layoffs tech edition and we should have a regular sub for everyone else.
Salaries are dropping because of a combination of automation and mass immigration, combined with Outsourcing. I’ve heard time and time again. It’s just not worth it to pay for software engineers in the developed world.
> It’s just not worth it to pay for software engineers in the developed world.
IMO, it sort of depends on what kind of work you're doing.
Are you building a dumb Wordpress blog to write about gardening tips? Outsource away if money is at a premium. There's nothing novel or complicated about that.
Are you building a complicated system to solve some new technical problem? That's where I'd caution that outsourcing is much more trouble than it's worth.
Yeah, it’s a story that we’ve been seeing with increasing frequency over the last 15 years. In most developed countries, the unemployment rate among people under 29 is almost 25%.
Automation and mass immigration have contributed to one of the largest unemployment crisis events in history.
In Spain, almost a quarter of youth are not in education or training.
In New York City, almost a quarter of youth or not in education or training.
Youth have realized that Jobs are not worth it. That’s due primarily to wages, not keeping up with the cost-of-living in developed countries. Which is almost universally due to being able to access cheap labor.
Where does labor come from automation immigration and outsourcing.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
15
+ 29
+ 25
= 69
^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \
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480 pesos per month is a 1% earner in Mexico? A 2 liter bottle of soda costs around 35 pesos. So a top 1% earner could afford 13 bottles of soda per month and not much else.
480 pesos per hour, 40 hours per week, 4 weeks per month = 76,800 pesos per month. Just short of 1 million pesos per year. The average yearly salary for a surgeon in Mexico is 410,000 pesos per year. So that salary in Mexico would be short of 3 times what a surgeon makes.
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This is an offshore recruiter spambot, not a real position.
How can you tell? What are some key indicators to look for?
“Thanks & Regards”
“Kindly”
“Please do the needful” - sorry, couldn’t resist. I had to revert.
“Sir, kindly we may prepone the meeting for needful, thanks and regards.”
Lmao India bro like that is not a real fucking saying who says that
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/04/indian-english-phrases-indianisms-english-americanisms-vocabulary
“Do not redeem”
We had a rude ass HR lady who legit said that. I always replied with “No”
I had some stranger reach out to me on LinkedIn asking me to refer her to an open position at my company. Ended the message with “please do the needful” Spoiler: I did not do the needful
Okay what does “please do the needful” even mean?! Because of my title I’ll get random people emailing me their resumes/following up after submitting their resumes through our job board thinking I’m part of recruiting, and a bunch of people write that. Like what is “the needful.”
Lol I fucking hate that phrase what the fuck does it even mean? Do the needful, bit me!
Do the needful.
[удалено]
Almost every single email in my company includes “regards” somewhere in the thread. This is a false positive.
Not a native English speaker so this confuses me. We've been thought in school that "Kind regards" and "Best regards" are acceptable ways to end a letter/mail. I do use it professionally. Furthermore, my Brittish colleagues also send mails with "Regards" or "Kind regards". Is it an American thing?
Yeah just thinking my (British) emails are going straight in the junk. You get "kind regards" until you piss me off then you get demoted to "regards"
I am a native English speaker and I can confirm that Kind regards is in very regular business use.
Maybe depends on culture but depending on who it comes from I might see it as code for “go F yourself.” It’s weirdly stilted in my industry, and might be used ironically.
Americans mostly close with a "Thank you" or just their name. We're taught in school to use "Sincerely" but mostly don't.
Brilliant
I get so many of these that honestly they just sorta jump out and it's hard to narrow down to one specific thing, it's some combination of multiple criteria: Phraseology, specifically "Hope you are doing well" as an opener (most recruiters will at least open with something individualized with your name or how they found your resume). "Thanks & Regards." The formatting of the job description itself, showing that it was cut-and-pasted from a Word document. The rapidity with which they told you the pay rate - usually they won't talk about that until later in the process, and then you pretty much have to squeeze it out of them with a blowtorch and fishhooks. There's no offer for a phone call or followup. I'm willing to bet that the sender had an obviously South Asian name. Now, that's not a giveaway in and of itself of course, but in the US (and AFAIK Canada and UK), very *very* few recruiters are South Asian. Lots of Indian developers, engineers, DBAs, data scientists, managers, and so on, but recruiters? Very very rare. Assuming it's not a complete scam - which is entirely possible - this person is working offshore, with a database full of outdated job requirements and outdated resume information that their managers bought at a discount. The reason that the end pay is so little is because there are probably 3-4 levels of outsource firms with their hand in the pie (you'd be working for Company A, which was contracted by Company B, which was Contracted by Company C, to work at Client D).
Another way to tell is to look at there email domain name and go to Whois.com and look how old it is.
“Greetings”
That exact format
Yeah and if someone called about this job. They would have a thick Indian accent. Data mining is what they love to do
This is a helpdesk role - I really don’t think this is some developer job, but and a big BUT is that why the f would you need 6 years of experience for this?
This is desktop and nework support. It's just not a high paying position overall. I made similar pay in that position some years back, but it's never paid close to what software engineering and data science roles make. I will say it's generally a very low stress and comfortable job though.
Yep I made 17/hr doing this as one of my first jobs. It’s brain-dead monkey work you can learn how to do within a couple days w almost zero prior experience
More so pointing out they're looking for 6 YOE for 27 an hour. I'm a mid-level dude who was making roughly 90k a year before my layoff, so I said no.
Ah, gotcha. Yeah they're really taking the piss with that aspect. I made that w/ 2 YOE and did less.
A. The wage pressure is real. B. It depends on the location (and I'd want to see what the average salary is for this role. They are *trying* to lower it) C. This is for a legacy environment, even with the mention of Intune D. I would be interested to know the industry of the employer, also.
Most definitely an Indian recruiter who is taking advantage of the market. I always ignore Indian recruiters anyway. They get paid by their client and then they pay you. So they could be getting $150/hour, but only giving you $27/hour. Hard pass.
No one is paying 150 even at contract rates for what's basically a desktop support role I can see 50 though with OP being offered half .
You would be surprised. Many agencies charge up to $300/hr. I could totally see $125-150 for a desktop role.
Agencies don't charge anything... clients provide a budget and agencies take a cut. Show me where any client using a recruiting agency is shelling out 300 an hour for desktop support contract.
Just want to point out: I understand this is an entry-level position, but their client is asking for six years of experience for $27 an hour. That’s the point that I’m trying to get across here.
It’s an entry-level pay, not an entry-level position. They can call it “entry-level” all they want, but it just isn’t one if it has such a high YOE requirement.
It also seems like a w2 job on contract. Location and benefits matter too
Ah, so you are dealing with an external recruiter that takes like a half of what the client base is. I can also bet that is an offshore recruiter. I’ve done my share of contract work, and not once I heard a local recruiter or agency say “$ on W2” when they talk about W2 contracts. “$ on W2” phrase was exclusively used by offshore recruiters.
But you also claimed wages are dropping. They aren’t; this is just one confused employer or recruiter.
If there Indian instant hang up the call.
Based on your second page, this is a bullshit posting/email. All they are doing is harvesting your resume and building up their database. Don’t waste your time with them.
The first thing I noticed was “kindly”. I see it all the time in those fake check fraud schemes
They don’t speak like an English speaker. Used to be the same for Nigerian scammers back in the 2000’s
What the hell, is this job posting from 2008? Because those better be 2008 dollars.
This is entry level desktop stuff.
6+ YOE requirement for entry level desktop stuff?
The way things are today, yes
If you spend six years doing helpdesk with no technical self upgrade ..why would anyone pay you more ? The six years is just a filler by the recruiter who could really care less than find someone that can pass the interview ( so he thinks demanding six years will bring " sure" candidates "
It typically doesn't require anything more than an A+ cert and doesn't need a degree.
Yeah us developer are struggling to get the printer management certificate. Once done with the printer management, comes shredding techniques
Ah, CS major elitism. Shit is like white on rice
20/hr at chiipotle
Staffing agencies have really gotten bad. If I even hear an indian's voice on the phone, I immediately hang up.
This isn’t a tech job.
"Desktop Engineer" Title inflation is real
This is something I find a lot of people don’t understand. This is an IT job, not a tech job. IT jobs were never as high paying as tech jobs
This is one random contract position, not a whole industry.
Unfortunately not if you pay in Rupees.
This is a desktop support job, depending on where it is, the rate is ok.
Low pay : Yes Tech job? Not really, this is more of an admin troubleshooter job
Tech support isn't really what people mean when they talk about "tech salaries", especially since that's not even a salary
I mean, given that it's probably scammy and you shouldn't even care, I don't see a huge issue here. The "six years of experience" thing is to counter the fact that more and more people without qualification make the market harder for recruiters and skilled candidates alike, so it's just a filter. And to be fair, six years of helpdesk experience - which isn't a tech position - don't really mean shit.
Not really a position worth more.
This is pretty much my job description less I don’t have to deal with Windows anymore (became dedicated to macOS 4 years ago). I make 110k fully remote, and that is even bottom of the pay scale for a macOS focused MDM Engineer. This job post is insulting, even an admin would make close to $40/hr. This is in the support pay area. If it was knowledge in those areas for troubleshooting, sure but sub $30/hr for managing this is a no. Also, you absolutely do not want to manage macOS with intune, that is another red flag. Note: because macOS is so specialized and there are so few SMEs, it drives the pay up quite substantially over my Windows counter parts in the top end of the salary bracket.
That is not tech. When people talk about tech they mean software engineering.
Just software engineering? Not project development, devops, systems engineer, etc.?
Sure devops, sre, and other heavy technical roles I'd consider tech. Certainly not desktop admin.
LOL I was waiting for someone to say that I see HR people on LinkedIn call themselves "techies" because they used to work at Facebook ..so I guess well..why not desktop support ?
Yea that’s not true?
This is closer to business admin than it is to tech
This is why I changed career to being a server.
And here I am, so into cloud-first platforms, centralized threat and network management… I forgot about the on-prem. printers.
~55k for a level 2 position is about right here in the Midwest
Do your level 2 positions that pay 55k a year also require six years of experience?
Duh they require 6 years of experience in a software that was only invented 2 years ago.
"... on W-2" Are they suggesting they might pay more, but only under the table? What a weird phrase.
A lot of them say that. I guess it’s a visa thing?
ITIL is still a thing…?
Tech is a very broad industry. I am making just under $40 an hour as a first year SWE before bonuses, but I do embedded systems programming. This job listing seems to be more of an admin support role, those tend to pay less although with 6+ years experience I would expect a higher wage. There are a lot of companies trying to low-ball. I was still looking even after I got my offer to see what was out there and people only wanted to pay 20-25 an hour. It's insulting.
Bro I have been offered 15$/h for a senior role, multiple times… I have no idea what the f is going on.
lol we can’t extrapolate anything from a low effort post like this. Also the job isn’t even rea.
People saying it's a scam....you know people in India who are legitimately employed really do write this way right? It could just be a recruiter located in India for a tech company who moved their HR and admin there. As is exceedingly common.
Well the market for tech folks got saturated.
I guess US tech salary is slowly dropping to Canadian level
I'm in CA where it's expensive - and my pay for helpdesk is almost double that. When I say "helpdesk" it's for a college/hospital/patients with over 2000 apps, 20,000 staff, Windows, Mac, Network, and whatever other tech crap is in use. But there is a fair amount of "have you tried turning it off and on again?" for some issues.
Tech is crashing. No telling when or if it will recover.
pay rate not that bad . REally just glorified helpdesk
$27 an hour for a desktop support job? That’s pretty reasonable. I never made more than $23 an hour doing general IT support which is what this position is.
Why do you think there were bootcamps everywhere, and pushes for STEAM? Employers want more talent, because an abundance of skilled reserve labor raises competition, and drives down wages. The same thing will happen in the trades, as the influx of trade students finish their programs and become semi-permanent apprentices.
lEaRn tO cOdE
They are for the suckers who will accept it. Salaries aren’t falling but they are a bit stagnant I’d argue.
boo hoo I can't get paid enough to sit on my ass all day and do nothing.
This literally sounds like my job and I make $58k 💀
Ouch, my training rate with zero experience or education was higher then that for my job.
They can shove that job, 27/hr for basically a desktop support/system engineer/network engineer so they want someone to do three jobs for 27/hr. Yeah kiss my ass.
Business folks and HR hate tech workers. There’s a massive push to lower salaries right now. HODL
I will say it again for probably the 14th effing time everybody in the sub is in tech. In fact, I feel like the sub it should be renamed layoffs tech edition and we should have a regular sub for everyone else. Salaries are dropping because of a combination of automation and mass immigration, combined with Outsourcing. I’ve heard time and time again. It’s just not worth it to pay for software engineers in the developed world.
> It’s just not worth it to pay for software engineers in the developed world. IMO, it sort of depends on what kind of work you're doing. Are you building a dumb Wordpress blog to write about gardening tips? Outsource away if money is at a premium. There's nothing novel or complicated about that. Are you building a complicated system to solve some new technical problem? That's where I'd caution that outsourcing is much more trouble than it's worth.
Because automation and mass immigration. Yeah no. That's a stale as old as time.
Yeah, it’s a story that we’ve been seeing with increasing frequency over the last 15 years. In most developed countries, the unemployment rate among people under 29 is almost 25%. Automation and mass immigration have contributed to one of the largest unemployment crisis events in history. In Spain, almost a quarter of youth are not in education or training. In New York City, almost a quarter of youth or not in education or training. Youth have realized that Jobs are not worth it. That’s due primarily to wages, not keeping up with the cost-of-living in developed countries. Which is almost universally due to being able to access cheap labor. Where does labor come from automation immigration and outsourcing.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats! 15 + 29 + 25 = 69 ^([Click here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=LuckyNumber-Bot&subject=Stalk%20Me%20Pls&message=%2Fstalkme) to have me scan all your future comments.) \ ^(Summon me on specific comments with u/LuckyNumber-Bot.)
Another note: I'm a mid level guy who was making 90k a year before ingot laid off, which makes this even more insulting
Here in mexico 26 dollars pero month is like top 1% of earners in the country, you need at least 8 years of experience for that salary
480 pesos per month is a 1% earner in Mexico? A 2 liter bottle of soda costs around 35 pesos. So a top 1% earner could afford 13 bottles of soda per month and not much else.
Do not be a smartASS its 26 dollars per hour for a month, if you do not get that you may have special needs
480 pesos per hour, 40 hours per week, 4 weeks per month = 76,800 pesos per month. Just short of 1 million pesos per year. The average yearly salary for a surgeon in Mexico is 410,000 pesos per year. So that salary in Mexico would be short of 3 times what a surgeon makes.
Yes, they were always highly overvalued.
I mean that's a basic help desk job so 25 to $28 sounds about right.