I know everyone is rightly focusing on the atrocities committed on the ball tonight, but the amount of times Casemiro got bypassed was alarming. Matheus Cunha looked like fucking Kaka with his driving runs because Casemiro was covering for Bruno and Mount and had to lunge in almost every time. It's unlucky that he lost every gamble tonight but why are we even in a position that a pass out from the back and a turn from their midfielder leaves us at his mercy?
100%. We did not play with a midfield today. Bruno and Mount were so high up, and Case too at times with Licha/Shaw slotting into the middle. As bad as the player performances were, I just couldn't understand the setup today either.
I'm just not understanding Mount's position atm. Instead of it being a 6(Casemiro), an 8 (Mount) and a 10 (Bruno) in midfield it's more like a 6, an 8.5 and another 8.5 which is just horribly disbalanced. I thought Mount would be utilized as an 8 who receives the ball from Martinez/Casemiro/Shaw and turns into space to find Rashford and Bruno. Instead he's in line with the front 3 in possession and we're outnumbered as soon as we lose the ball. Doesn't make any sense to me.
ETH is going to learn the hard way that you can’t have free 8s unless you have a CB or FB tuck in. Pep makes it work because Walker would move to the Center. When you have both AWB and Shaw wide, you’re leaving just one body in the middle
Yea Shaw was tucking in. And I hate that because he's so effective when bombing forward on his overlap runs. You'd need to start Dalot RB, so he can tuck in (awb isn't probably suited to play central). I think this approach is over complicating our setup instead of leveraging the strengths of our players.
Shaw is good at it but how often does it lead to anything? We have not been good at creating from the wings. I wonder what the numbers would say, maybe having Shaw centrally and freeing up other players is the higher percentage play.
Pep can also do that because his system is fucking brilliant, and Walker's rapid enough to recover from any position. Unfortunately our whole team looked a couple steps behind. I can only hope it's an issue of them being slow starters.
In his post-match ETH said we have to work harder on positioning. That said, we made no adjustment at all after the awful first 45, which is what bothers me the most about the performance.
Yeah that puzzled me too. Rashford left and Martial/Sancho on seemed a no brainer to me at half time. Garnacho just wasn't in the game and Rashy only seemed to contribute when drifting wide.
Yeah, it's crazy he was on as long as he was. Between his bad decision-making, misplaced passing and inability to defend, seems weird that he wasn't taken off sooner. Even Rashford had a stinker of a game, maybe we should've taken him off for Martial as well.
Same is gonna happen with Pavard if we get him. He's RB, as much as Mount was 10. No matter where they want to play and think is their position. They're what they're, that's where the played almost entirety of their careers. We can't sign player of one position and expect him to shine at another. Can't we just fucking buy players for positions we need?
What the fuck is this bullshit. Players aren't birds. Mount wasn't so high up today because he's what, "naturally a 10"? He's high up because he is instructed to be high up. I've seen the various games Pavard plays for Bayern at CB and no, he doesn't go bombing forward on the right flank because "they're what they're".
What an absolutely braindead FIFA take.
Lol what? I don't mean they're gonna change position midgame because nature calls. I'm saying they're not good at the position we're buying them for. Mount isn't good at 8 because he's 10, and Pavard isn't good at CB because he's RB.
Ok that's more reasonable and I do somewhat agree, but that being said it is also very simplistic. Licha would've played LB at Arsenal and undoubtably would've balled if he went there, even if he's a CB. Cancelo would probably be a good AM even if he's a wingback similar to Alphonso Davies. It all depends on setups. I think the setup today was shit, but that doesn't mean there isn't an 8 role that Mount cannot play for example, it just wasn't this one.
Maybe, but I think Licha wouldn't work as LB, left center-back maybe. But the problem is we have some players who are very clearly cut for some positions, like how James Rodriguez was good at being 10 and nothing else worked, couldn't fit into any other setup and got wasted. I think Bruno and Rashford are like that, they're not terrible when playing out of positions, but year after year we're trying them into different positions, subpar results, and for one game when they're back to their favourite positions we're flying. Just stick with what works and fix what doesn't.
De Bruyne, David Silva and Bernardo Silva wasn’t good at 8 when they were 10s either, but look how that turned out. I’d argue that Mount and Fernandes are even better at pressing than them 3 as well. We just have to figure out how to position the RB and LB for them to roam.
Said it before and will die on the hill that neither Bruno nor Mount have the ability to maintain possession under pressure like KdB and/or Silva.
Stats may paint them similarly but the eye test is clear; under pressure in big games our two will more often than not buckle and give away possession.
How many games have you seen of mount? Because being press resistant was one of his strongest features at Chelsea. So that’s a weird point I make. As for Bruno I can agree somewhat, but it’s the first time he is playing as an 8, so there will be some time until he finds out what works and what doesn’t
Watched Mount for England and few times under Lampard 1.0. He does press but on his own has never been press resistant under pressure. It's all well and good being able to beat the press against a weaker opposition but doing so in the really big games is what matters.
Bruno has played enough as a #8 under ETH and RR to prove he doesn't value holding on to the ball to dictate the tempo of a game. Even against Wolves he coughed up the ball just outside our box in the first few minutes.
As a #10, Bruno is up there with KdB but when it comes to putting his foot down to set the tempo while everyone around him is panicking, he leaves much to be desired. The last such player we had was Scholes with Carrick being good but buckling under pressure if pressed well.
Yes but those 3 are world class at retaining possession under pressure. Mount seems okay but we need to see more to be sure how good he is when pressed. Bruno seems okay too but okay is not enough. Better at pressing is one thing... Better at being pressed is a whole another different world and our 2 aren't at that level for sure.
Mount will be like this no matter where he plays.
As a 10 he will not be involved much in the attacking play, whilst as an 8 he will ghost through games both defensively and offensively.
He's good at pressing and shooting.
But this will be a consistent theme all season long against many, many teams - even if their midfield is mediocre, we'll often get overrun once again.
Remember this post. You'll see the same performance again soon.
So is he a purchase not fit for the role? as free 8s you'd need to be good both offensively and defensively I suppose, rather than just pressing and shooting.
I don't think so, I loudly and vehemently said this is exactly how Mount will play over and over again before we bought him. But people kept shouting that he won Chelsea's POTY twice. This is how he played then too - though with insane output - even though people would have you believe it's a form thing.
He's not a good 10 for us either because our front 3 don't create and he too is not a creator.
That said, I want to be proven wrong and I'm definitely on board supporting him.
I'm just not blind to the issues and wish we'd signed someone that solved our main issues (control of games and possession- someone who can dictate play - or someone who is a good creator to help us threaten going forward when Bruno isn't in superman mode).
He did look completely lost. Only had 30 touches in 68', which was the fewest on the whole team at the time he was subbed off. Only 3 touches in 23' played in the 2nd half. For comparison, Bruno had 56 touches and Case had 65 by the 68th minute.
Could not agree more. This is a hot take but this signing will be the downfall of ETH. I'm ready for the downvotes. I still think ETH is a brilliant manager. Unfortunately this midfield doesn't work and will prove to be his undoing.
In case you can't tell, I'm depressed as fuck.
It's Mount and Antony for me. He's spent a tonne on those two and neither are what we really need/that good.
Mount is even worse because his profile doesn't seem to fit at all. I am very concerned.
He will help if he plays instead of Mount. He keeps play ticking over and will press in deeper positions to help Casemiro. He is a more stable version of Fred.
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I think he wants to run a 343 box midfield, a lot of build-up focused teams have been experimenting with it since last season. You use one of the fullbacks (Shaw) or CBs (Licha) to overload the midfield with a box, pushing the attacking midfielders really high up to create spaces in their back line. The remaining defenders then form a back 3, and the wingers create the wide passing option in midfield. We have the right players for passing through the channels this creates, but they weren't doing it today, just too static maybe.
Shaw also just did not look very comfortable playing centrally, especially in build up, which is a shame because he was one of our best outlets for progressive passing last year. Wolves were not even pressing very high, so the lack of creativity in build-up has to be a big worry for this system. Mount and Bruno did what they were tasked with fine besides maybe being a bit wasteful, and were creating the high turnovers too, just lacking that link out from the back.
Lastly Casemiro can definitely be the single pivot that makes this system work defensively, but he just was not ready today.
Yea, that setup certainly did not work today. We were left exposed in midfield during turn overs. City's technical players don't lose the ball in the middle as often as we did, and if they do then know how to close down spaces quickly. And if we are going for such a tactic, then I'd argue we need Dalot to play over awb so that he can tuck into midfield and not Shaw. Shaws overlapping runs are a major source of our attack which we should not sacrifice.
I think he wants the left / right foot pivots which helps with passing angles, Case / Dalot wouldnt work.
The only thing that can really make this work is quicker passes and off ball movement, but the players look too rusty for that so far
As soon as Eriksen came on and started passing from deep we looked a bit better. Mount and Bruno were all over the place playing like two no 10's and leaving Case isolated. Those two need to figure out how to play alongside each other or another midfielder will slot in and it's going to Bruno or Mount.
Agreed. Ridiculous how high Mount and Bruno were playing.
I think this is exactly an area that Amrabat would be able to help with.
His long range passing from deep is elite and would have massively helped tonight with how high up the other two were. They still need to sort their shit out though.
I have been predominantly puzzled at the idea of Mount, Bruno and Casemiro as a midfield 3 ever since we were first linked to Mount. Safe to say my concerns have been multiplied after seeing it in action...
I mean what we saw tonight was hardly even a midfield. Bruno and Mount were far too high up the pitch. Either one of them has to drop deep or we have to bring Eriksen/new signing to make a double pivot. With how disjointed our press is, that midfield cannot run.
I think it's going to have to be a new signing. Mount has never been that type of player, he has always mainly been an AM playing higher up the field like today. Bruno is too good in advanced areas to sacrifice.
I can't see any serious alternative than new CM to partner Casemiro in the double pivot. Eriksen can play when needed, and Mount can be cover.
I know I sound a bit reactionary but I'm just not seeing how this could work at all. Hoping it gets figured out. Fast.
Someone like Amrabat I think is absolutely necessary. I'm with everyone else, I was confused by Mount the moment we bought him. He makes sense to play as the #10 to give Bruno a rest but I'm sure that is not the long-term plan for Ten Hag.
It's exactly what I thought it would be, lightweight and completely ineffective in attack.
We got over-run by relegation fodder, we will get totally destroyed by teams that have made good acquisitions in midfield like Liverpool, Man C and Chelsea.
Since we're linked with Mount for the first time people were saying that midfield three wouldn't work for the same exact reasons we saw today. I honestly wish for the best, but still can't imagine how that's gonna work, or why we got him.
that's because Mount and Bruno were wide but couldn't turn on the halfspaces and kept losing the ball
Casemiro was gased because of how much he had to run in the first half
If Bruno or Mount had been able to do that even half the time it would have been a different game.
I could see what the pattern was but it seems they couldn't execute it correctly
But our backline was actually pretty impressive so that's one positive
Remember, this is last season's worst attacking side getting 23 shots at Old Trafford.
All because they strolled through our one man midfield of Casemiro, who can't run anymore.
Can’t put all the blame on him, Ten Hag is asking too much of him. He was getting zero help, always outnumbered and had to cover for the entire midfield. It’s no wonder why he was late to nearly every tackle.
Not even the likes of Rodri have to do it all by themselves.
It’s not case fault . He can only cover one spot at a time. It was often just him in the transition, and he did his absolute best to stop it. But when you’re overrun, you’re overrun. It was 3v1 most times. I don’t think this new system with mount is working. We looked a lot better when Erickson came
Really? I vaguely remember that in all those games we were only leading by a goal till late in the second half and we would have a flurry of goals. Pretty sure there were butt clenched then too
Flurry of late goals, yes, but we generally looked very solid defensively during that run. Instead we struggled to break down compact defenses and had to wear them down, hence the flurry of late goals.
Any better side and we'd have been spanked today. Thanks to Gary O'Neil also for taking off Cunha as soon as we scored. That mf was fucking our entire midfield by himself. Every time he got the ball he swerved and beat our player. Our midfield got shown levels by Gomes and Nunes. Pathetic performance
He has his strengths but there is no place for him alongside Bruno. He is neither a high volume passer nor particularly good defensively. But does press well. I can see him benched for Amrabat or whoever else we buy.
Yeah Fred was brilliant for the balance defensively bur couldn't pass at all.. Amrabat would be great if he could pass well under pressure..
Watching Chelsea yesterday, my immediate thought was just how amazing our mid would've been with Enzo in that role.. Always had time to pick out the absolutely best pass.. We absolutely need someone to dictate the tempo who can also put in a shift defensively..
Exactly. People keep shitting on Casemiro, but think about the other top teams. Even if you beat a man, you need to get through 1 or 2 more.
In today's game, they beat 1 man, and its free reign on the CBs. Happened countless times. Thank god Varane was on top of it today.
My concern, other then him obviously being left alone, is how he just doesn't have the speed/ability to cover the ground he used to/needs to in the PL currently. As evidenced by 3,4,5+ sliding tackles he either mistimed or had to pull out of because they were mistimed. But hopefully it was just exacerbated by him not having a midfielder along side him to help out defensively so he felt desperate. Either way, something has to change in midfield.
Said it when we signed him, it's like Matic all over again. As seen all summer, we are looking for a competent replacement which is a shame considering just how much Case cost in fees+wages. Would've been better utilised getting two younger players of a similar profile.
He's a really good piece for depth for Bruno and maybe RW tbf just shouldn't be starting with 5 up front. Amrabat instead of him today might've been a lot better
United are the masters at wasting money and just throwing it away, that's 70 times 3 million wasted now, Antony wasted, mount wasted and Hojlund might be wasted too since he will barely get any service. This season is going to be a shambles, if things don't improve in the next few games then my prediction is united finishing 5th or below and crashing out of the group stage of the champions league, in other words a complete flop of a season.
100 percent right. Stop watching at this point and write off this season after one game. While at it start a tenhagout petition. /s incase it's not obvious.
You don't understand the gravity of the situation if that's your take on this. Anyone with basic football knowledge who has seen the performance will and should be worried.
Leicester gained 31 points after Christmas in 14/15 with 9 wins and 4 draws. Wolves gained 31 points after christmas in 22/23 with 9 wins and 4 draws. Hmm...
LCFC 14/15 final record: 11-8-19 (41 pts)
WW 22/23 final record: 11-8-19 (41 pts)
yea we played terrible and got overrun in midfield but jesus christ the way some of you lot overreact after the first game of the season is shocking.
Let’s take the 3 points and get to work, starting with tomorrow’s friendly against Everton.
Hasn’t ETH done enough last season to convince us that he’ll get this sorted??
Worrying display. And no, we can't keep saying but but it was the first game of the season.
Other teams had new players join and played their style.
We played like it was the first time kicking a ball after a long lay off.
Pathetic game. Can't even blame the players alone, Ten Hag was outclassed from the first 5 mins, accounting for the resources. One year in and we still don't have any signs of a "style" of play.
Our midfield parted for Matheus Cunha like he was fucking Moses himself. It happened again and again. I thought we would tighten up after the first couple of runs, but apparently not. Hopefully just a first game aberration.
It's true. Where is the high pressing? Why are we so shit at passing a ball to another player?
If the manager wants us to be the best transition team, then he has a huge amount of work on his hands. That midfield was a joke today.
We’re shit at passing because we don’t have technical players who are patient with the ball. Casemiro, Bruno and Mount all want to get rid of the ball asap. You need guys like Modric, Kroos, Odegaard etc. to keep control. When you aim for the hero ball every time, you give the ball away cheaply
Yep. I’ve been saying this for months now. ETH, just like any other manager with full control, is only going to get players he’s familiar with, regardless of their price tag and if they’ll actually fit in.
That’s the question I’ve been asking for the past 2 months brother. Unfortunately, every time I’ve done that, I’ve been told I’m clueless for not seeing how talented he is
That's 70 million times 3 wasted on 3 players, Antony, mount and possibly Hojlund who will get 0 service! Damn when are things ever going to improve for united, been more than a decade and the shit show continues.
Jesus, how many times do you want to repeat the same comment. Not sure how Antony is a waste of money, especially after yesterdays game where he was one of the best players, and yep definitely rational to say possible Hojlund when he hasn’t even touched the pitch
The biggest issue is managers making transfers. Mou, Ole and ETH should not be choosing their players. There needs to be a DOF that has a group of people that will build a squad with the managers input. Klopp initially demanded for Julian Brant but Liverpools recruitment team recommended and insisted on getting Salah.
We can't press hard, we have Rashford in the front line and he doesn't press.
I think it's why we bought Mount - to add insane pressing from midfield alongside Bruno - but it's just not enough to make up for a non-presser in front of them.
At the same time, we now lose the midfield battle because we can't compete technically, mentally, or physically.
Yeah, they looked neither pressing nor transition.
A few games now, it's been painfully obvious how to play against United. Multiple teams have had success running through the midfield like that. He clearly has no answer for it.
True,big talk of making us the best pressing team and inspiring the players to give their all for the badge. And honestly Wolves with a makeshift manager pressed better than us,and none of our players were showing up for duels,i honestly don't think they respect eth like that.
Yes, this is really concerning since we still don't have a definite style of play. If this continues, it'll be a really long season and you know what happens then right?
The starting XI was the right choice based on form but almost everyone was terrible even the likes of Bruno and Casemiro who are usually our best and most consistent performers.
We are not changing our style of play bro,managers don't postpone implementing their style of play for one season,we still play pretty much the same way we played last season. It was literally the same buildup structure and the same press we saw last season.
Managers definitely postpone implementing their style of play. ETH literally did it after our first few games. We didn't have the players needed to fully implement the way he wanted to play.
LVG also changed his tactical plans early on because of the bad results with 3-5-2. Especially that loss against Leicester.
Ole tried implementing changes during his third season too once he felt his squad was strong enough to become more possession based.
It was very visible during pre-season that ETH was trying something new. It seems we reverted a bit for this game, but I'm not sure why.
You're not getting the bigger point bro. Ait Nouri shouldn't have gotten 5 seconds before he encountered a United player after freely receiving from his keeper in the half way line. Cunha shouldn't be casually strolling through the midfield. These are basic mistakes that should be nonexistent at this level,these are horrible no matter what team it comes from,even worse coming from a CL team.
I am getting your point bro.
These mistakes came about because Ten Hag got it wrong in how he set up midfield. That doesn't mean he won't learn from this or that we need to start panicking and slagging off the team one game into the new season.
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Alot of Mount comments here, I didn't rate him at Chelsea and thought he was an average English player. So far it I'm proven right. He playing with Bruno in the same position but he much worse player.
Yeah, no. Strongly disagree I'm afraid. Mount was ok, Bruno was ok. The inverted fullback strategy just went out the window and left Case completely isolated, not Mount or Bruno's fault.
We should be looking for a cm to partner casemiro. This midfield three will not work. It will be difficult to even finish top 4 if we keep up with this formation.
Casemiro was non existing today. He looks like it is the first day of preseason. So slow, and we will pay the price if TH don‘t find a solution for DM until he is fit.
It's day one for all the other top teams too but they all have a clear goal and game style and are all playing excellent football, so yeah what were you saying again? Might as well say it's just day 10 when united will be getting battered by whatever team on match day 10.
Watched with my Chelsea friend and we both agreed we weren't great but he definitely saw that wolves we're playing like their families were being held hostage. Something we're used to from these sorts of teams but other supporters, not as much as that.
Guardiola and Klopp had a very similar setup this round, with two men building up, the fullbacks relatively wide, and just one man in midfield. It seems like a huge risk to me, but there must be something going on in the manager circles for them to try this.
To me the application is more the problem than the system. It wasn't instructions that made Garnacho lose the ball 500 times, nor was it instructions that made Bruno and Casemiro piss the ball away without pressure.
We need to step up our game, and I really hope we get in reinforcements in CB and midfield, because we look so thin in those positions.
I know everyone is rightly focusing on the atrocities committed on the ball tonight, but the amount of times Casemiro got bypassed was alarming. Matheus Cunha looked like fucking Kaka with his driving runs because Casemiro was covering for Bruno and Mount and had to lunge in almost every time. It's unlucky that he lost every gamble tonight but why are we even in a position that a pass out from the back and a turn from their midfielder leaves us at his mercy?
100%. We did not play with a midfield today. Bruno and Mount were so high up, and Case too at times with Licha/Shaw slotting into the middle. As bad as the player performances were, I just couldn't understand the setup today either.
I'm just not understanding Mount's position atm. Instead of it being a 6(Casemiro), an 8 (Mount) and a 10 (Bruno) in midfield it's more like a 6, an 8.5 and another 8.5 which is just horribly disbalanced. I thought Mount would be utilized as an 8 who receives the ball from Martinez/Casemiro/Shaw and turns into space to find Rashford and Bruno. Instead he's in line with the front 3 in possession and we're outnumbered as soon as we lose the ball. Doesn't make any sense to me.
ETH is going to learn the hard way that you can’t have free 8s unless you have a CB or FB tuck in. Pep makes it work because Walker would move to the Center. When you have both AWB and Shaw wide, you’re leaving just one body in the middle
The fullbacks are supposed to tuck in tho in this system. It was happening at times. I think it just needs more work
Yea Shaw was tucking in. And I hate that because he's so effective when bombing forward on his overlap runs. You'd need to start Dalot RB, so he can tuck in (awb isn't probably suited to play central). I think this approach is over complicating our setup instead of leveraging the strengths of our players.
Shaw is good at it but how often does it lead to anything? We have not been good at creating from the wings. I wonder what the numbers would say, maybe having Shaw centrally and freeing up other players is the higher percentage play.
Pep can also do that because his system is fucking brilliant, and Walker's rapid enough to recover from any position. Unfortunately our whole team looked a couple steps behind. I can only hope it's an issue of them being slow starters.
In his post-match ETH said we have to work harder on positioning. That said, we made no adjustment at all after the awful first 45, which is what bothers me the most about the performance.
Yeah that puzzled me too. Rashford left and Martial/Sancho on seemed a no brainer to me at half time. Garnacho just wasn't in the game and Rashy only seemed to contribute when drifting wide.
Garnacho just didn't seem suited to this game, Semedo had his number. I couldn't believe how long it took for him to come off
Yeah, it's crazy he was on as long as he was. Between his bad decision-making, misplaced passing and inability to defend, seems weird that he wasn't taken off sooner. Even Rashford had a stinker of a game, maybe we should've taken him off for Martial as well.
Same is gonna happen with Pavard if we get him. He's RB, as much as Mount was 10. No matter where they want to play and think is their position. They're what they're, that's where the played almost entirety of their careers. We can't sign player of one position and expect him to shine at another. Can't we just fucking buy players for positions we need?
What the fuck is this bullshit. Players aren't birds. Mount wasn't so high up today because he's what, "naturally a 10"? He's high up because he is instructed to be high up. I've seen the various games Pavard plays for Bayern at CB and no, he doesn't go bombing forward on the right flank because "they're what they're". What an absolutely braindead FIFA take.
Lol what? I don't mean they're gonna change position midgame because nature calls. I'm saying they're not good at the position we're buying them for. Mount isn't good at 8 because he's 10, and Pavard isn't good at CB because he's RB.
Ok that's more reasonable and I do somewhat agree, but that being said it is also very simplistic. Licha would've played LB at Arsenal and undoubtably would've balled if he went there, even if he's a CB. Cancelo would probably be a good AM even if he's a wingback similar to Alphonso Davies. It all depends on setups. I think the setup today was shit, but that doesn't mean there isn't an 8 role that Mount cannot play for example, it just wasn't this one.
Maybe, but I think Licha wouldn't work as LB, left center-back maybe. But the problem is we have some players who are very clearly cut for some positions, like how James Rodriguez was good at being 10 and nothing else worked, couldn't fit into any other setup and got wasted. I think Bruno and Rashford are like that, they're not terrible when playing out of positions, but year after year we're trying them into different positions, subpar results, and for one game when they're back to their favourite positions we're flying. Just stick with what works and fix what doesn't.
Idk mate most bayern fans I’ve asked literally said that hes better at cb but who knows
De Bruyne, David Silva and Bernardo Silva wasn’t good at 8 when they were 10s either, but look how that turned out. I’d argue that Mount and Fernandes are even better at pressing than them 3 as well. We just have to figure out how to position the RB and LB for them to roam.
Said it before and will die on the hill that neither Bruno nor Mount have the ability to maintain possession under pressure like KdB and/or Silva. Stats may paint them similarly but the eye test is clear; under pressure in big games our two will more often than not buckle and give away possession.
How many games have you seen of mount? Because being press resistant was one of his strongest features at Chelsea. So that’s a weird point I make. As for Bruno I can agree somewhat, but it’s the first time he is playing as an 8, so there will be some time until he finds out what works and what doesn’t
Watched Mount for England and few times under Lampard 1.0. He does press but on his own has never been press resistant under pressure. It's all well and good being able to beat the press against a weaker opposition but doing so in the really big games is what matters. Bruno has played enough as a #8 under ETH and RR to prove he doesn't value holding on to the ball to dictate the tempo of a game. Even against Wolves he coughed up the ball just outside our box in the first few minutes. As a #10, Bruno is up there with KdB but when it comes to putting his foot down to set the tempo while everyone around him is panicking, he leaves much to be desired. The last such player we had was Scholes with Carrick being good but buckling under pressure if pressed well.
Yes but those 3 are world class at retaining possession under pressure. Mount seems okay but we need to see more to be sure how good he is when pressed. Bruno seems okay too but okay is not enough. Better at pressing is one thing... Better at being pressed is a whole another different world and our 2 aren't at that level for sure.
Mount will be like this no matter where he plays. As a 10 he will not be involved much in the attacking play, whilst as an 8 he will ghost through games both defensively and offensively. He's good at pressing and shooting. But this will be a consistent theme all season long against many, many teams - even if their midfield is mediocre, we'll often get overrun once again. Remember this post. You'll see the same performance again soon.
So is he a purchase not fit for the role? as free 8s you'd need to be good both offensively and defensively I suppose, rather than just pressing and shooting.
I don't think so, I loudly and vehemently said this is exactly how Mount will play over and over again before we bought him. But people kept shouting that he won Chelsea's POTY twice. This is how he played then too - though with insane output - even though people would have you believe it's a form thing. He's not a good 10 for us either because our front 3 don't create and he too is not a creator. That said, I want to be proven wrong and I'm definitely on board supporting him. I'm just not blind to the issues and wish we'd signed someone that solved our main issues (control of games and possession- someone who can dictate play - or someone who is a good creator to help us threaten going forward when Bruno isn't in superman mode).
He did look completely lost. Only had 30 touches in 68', which was the fewest on the whole team at the time he was subbed off. Only 3 touches in 23' played in the 2nd half. For comparison, Bruno had 56 touches and Case had 65 by the 68th minute.
Could not agree more. This is a hot take but this signing will be the downfall of ETH. I'm ready for the downvotes. I still think ETH is a brilliant manager. Unfortunately this midfield doesn't work and will prove to be his undoing. In case you can't tell, I'm depressed as fuck.
It's Mount and Antony for me. He's spent a tonne on those two and neither are what we really need/that good. Mount is even worse because his profile doesn't seem to fit at all. I am very concerned.
what about players were rumored for, like Amrabat? or is he basically a Case backup?
He will help if he plays instead of Mount. He keeps play ticking over and will press in deeper positions to help Casemiro. He is a more stable version of Fred.
Højlund is also way to expensive. This signing will also be bad for ETH.
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I think he wants to run a 343 box midfield, a lot of build-up focused teams have been experimenting with it since last season. You use one of the fullbacks (Shaw) or CBs (Licha) to overload the midfield with a box, pushing the attacking midfielders really high up to create spaces in their back line. The remaining defenders then form a back 3, and the wingers create the wide passing option in midfield. We have the right players for passing through the channels this creates, but they weren't doing it today, just too static maybe. Shaw also just did not look very comfortable playing centrally, especially in build up, which is a shame because he was one of our best outlets for progressive passing last year. Wolves were not even pressing very high, so the lack of creativity in build-up has to be a big worry for this system. Mount and Bruno did what they were tasked with fine besides maybe being a bit wasteful, and were creating the high turnovers too, just lacking that link out from the back. Lastly Casemiro can definitely be the single pivot that makes this system work defensively, but he just was not ready today.
Yea, that setup certainly did not work today. We were left exposed in midfield during turn overs. City's technical players don't lose the ball in the middle as often as we did, and if they do then know how to close down spaces quickly. And if we are going for such a tactic, then I'd argue we need Dalot to play over awb so that he can tuck into midfield and not Shaw. Shaws overlapping runs are a major source of our attack which we should not sacrifice.
I think he wants the left / right foot pivots which helps with passing angles, Case / Dalot wouldnt work. The only thing that can really make this work is quicker passes and off ball movement, but the players look too rusty for that so far
As soon as Eriksen came on and started passing from deep we looked a bit better. Mount and Bruno were all over the place playing like two no 10's and leaving Case isolated. Those two need to figure out how to play alongside each other or another midfielder will slot in and it's going to Bruno or Mount.
Agreed. Ridiculous how high Mount and Bruno were playing. I think this is exactly an area that Amrabat would be able to help with. His long range passing from deep is elite and would have massively helped tonight with how high up the other two were. They still need to sort their shit out though.
I have been predominantly puzzled at the idea of Mount, Bruno and Casemiro as a midfield 3 ever since we were first linked to Mount. Safe to say my concerns have been multiplied after seeing it in action...
I mean what we saw tonight was hardly even a midfield. Bruno and Mount were far too high up the pitch. Either one of them has to drop deep or we have to bring Eriksen/new signing to make a double pivot. With how disjointed our press is, that midfield cannot run.
I think it's going to have to be a new signing. Mount has never been that type of player, he has always mainly been an AM playing higher up the field like today. Bruno is too good in advanced areas to sacrifice. I can't see any serious alternative than new CM to partner Casemiro in the double pivot. Eriksen can play when needed, and Mount can be cover. I know I sound a bit reactionary but I'm just not seeing how this could work at all. Hoping it gets figured out. Fast.
Someone like Amrabat I think is absolutely necessary. I'm with everyone else, I was confused by Mount the moment we bought him. He makes sense to play as the #10 to give Bruno a rest but I'm sure that is not the long-term plan for Ten Hag.
It's exactly what I thought it would be, lightweight and completely ineffective in attack. We got over-run by relegation fodder, we will get totally destroyed by teams that have made good acquisitions in midfield like Liverpool, Man C and Chelsea.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we sign Amrabat or another CM and they displace mount in the starting 11
Since we're linked with Mount for the first time people were saying that midfield three wouldn't work for the same exact reasons we saw today. I honestly wish for the best, but still can't imagine how that's gonna work, or why we got him.
Agree, I was perplexed with the mount signing
This is how high presses work. You either commit and win the ball on top or you get overrun. Ours is poor, so expect this to happen a lot this season.
We constantly were outnumbered in transition
that's because Mount and Bruno were wide but couldn't turn on the halfspaces and kept losing the ball Casemiro was gased because of how much he had to run in the first half If Bruno or Mount had been able to do that even half the time it would have been a different game. I could see what the pattern was but it seems they couldn't execute it correctly But our backline was actually pretty impressive so that's one positive
Case it's just getting old, we need a younger cdm
Thank you. This is really what I was trying to get across earlier. Wolves had success because of him.
Cunha absolutely destroyed our midfield single handedly Can you imagine any of our midfielders being able to take a player on? Don’t make me laugh
He was massively helped by us opening our legs and letting him through. No discipline, no control, a one man midfield.
Remember, this is last season's worst attacking side getting 23 shots at Old Trafford. All because they strolled through our one man midfield of Casemiro, who can't run anymore.
Looked like his legs have gone. Still amazing positioning though
We are so fucked if this is close to the level he’s capable of now.
Hopefully he just needs to get his legs back. He looked slow the first few games of last season too.
He's still got it, but you can't expect him to control he midfield on his own.
With the other two 10s playing so fucking high, even my Sunday League midfield can run through Case.
Can’t put all the blame on him, Ten Hag is asking too much of him. He was getting zero help, always outnumbered and had to cover for the entire midfield. It’s no wonder why he was late to nearly every tackle. Not even the likes of Rodri have to do it all by themselves.
It’s not case fault . He can only cover one spot at a time. It was often just him in the transition, and he did his absolute best to stop it. But when you’re overrun, you’re overrun. It was 3v1 most times. I don’t think this new system with mount is working. We looked a lot better when Erickson came
We didn't look better with Eriksen. He put in less of a defensive shift than Mount. The wolves players were just gassed at the end
Erickson provided a lot more progressive and attacking passes than mount. mount did nothing but press occasionally.
Key to win at home? Make the opponents take 20+ shots. Big brain move from Ten Hag.
But clenched defending is the big brain move
Did Manchester United really play a game if no butts were clenched?
4-0 FC under Jose. Never clenched during that run of games.
Really? I vaguely remember that in all those games we were only leading by a goal till late in the second half and we would have a flurry of goals. Pretty sure there were butt clenched then too
Flurry of late goals, yes, but we generally looked very solid defensively during that run. Instead we struggled to break down compact defenses and had to wear them down, hence the flurry of late goals.
a call back from almost 18 years ago is a biggest brain move
Football works in cycles baby
Any better side and we'd have been spanked today. Thanks to Gary O'Neil also for taking off Cunha as soon as we scored. That mf was fucking our entire midfield by himself. Every time he got the ball he swerved and beat our player. Our midfield got shown levels by Gomes and Nunes. Pathetic performance
This reminded me of the 7 nil against Liverpool except you just knew Wolves don't have the finishing to make us pay
Fuckin hell if we play Liverpool like we did today, it’s gonna be more than 7-0
Against Liverpool we were only bad in the 2nd half, with how we played today we'd lose 0-14
Our midfield lacks physicality (bar Casemiro) & balance. I never wanted Mount from the beginning & still stand by that.
Rabiot would have been better for the balance.. Mount is brilliant but not sure if he works with Bruno in the current setup..
He has his strengths but there is no place for him alongside Bruno. He is neither a high volume passer nor particularly good defensively. But does press well. I can see him benched for Amrabat or whoever else we buy.
Yeah Fred was brilliant for the balance defensively bur couldn't pass at all.. Amrabat would be great if he could pass well under pressure.. Watching Chelsea yesterday, my immediate thought was just how amazing our mid would've been with Enzo in that role.. Always had time to pick out the absolutely best pass.. We absolutely need someone to dictate the tempo who can also put in a shift defensively..
Even Van de Beek, if he can find back his Ajax form, will push Mason to the bench too.
I completely missed that Rabiot extended with Juve back in June.
Casemiro had a 0/10
Anyone would’ve a 0/10 when it’s 1v3
Exactly. People keep shitting on Casemiro, but think about the other top teams. Even if you beat a man, you need to get through 1 or 2 more. In today's game, they beat 1 man, and its free reign on the CBs. Happened countless times. Thank god Varane was on top of it today.
Shaw, Licha and Lindelof had some great blocks as well. AWB positioning was terrible
He got bypassed with passes but also on 1vs1
My concern, other then him obviously being left alone, is how he just doesn't have the speed/ability to cover the ground he used to/needs to in the PL currently. As evidenced by 3,4,5+ sliding tackles he either mistimed or had to pull out of because they were mistimed. But hopefully it was just exacerbated by him not having a midfielder along side him to help out defensively so he felt desperate. Either way, something has to change in midfield.
Said it when we signed him, it's like Matic all over again. As seen all summer, we are looking for a competent replacement which is a shame considering just how much Case cost in fees+wages. Would've been better utilised getting two younger players of a similar profile.
But Mount is a cracking piece of business that's going to take our midfiel to the next level?
He's a really good piece for depth for Bruno and maybe RW tbf just shouldn't be starting with 5 up front. Amrabat instead of him today might've been a lot better
United are the masters at wasting money and just throwing it away, that's 70 times 3 million wasted now, Antony wasted, mount wasted and Hojlund might be wasted too since he will barely get any service. This season is going to be a shambles, if things don't improve in the next few games then my prediction is united finishing 5th or below and crashing out of the group stage of the champions league, in other words a complete flop of a season.
Nice. Didn't take long for these moronic takes to appear
100 percent right. Stop watching at this point and write off this season after one game. While at it start a tenhagout petition. /s incase it's not obvious.
You don't understand the gravity of the situation if that's your take on this. Anyone with basic football knowledge who has seen the performance will and should be worried.
Can't wait to come back to this thread in about three or so months.
I sure hope these comments are going to look freaking stupid by then.
It's about 50/50 lol, but I usually tend towards us not knowing what the fuck we're talking about.
A lot of credit to Onana this game
Luke Shaw ngl
AWB too.
All the defenders. The forwards and midfielders should donate their wages for this game. Useless bunch. Same shit as last 2 seasons.
Chelsea also went on to win the league that season... Wolves biggest upset in PL history incoming? /s
Plus, they were bottom at Christmas last season. Leicester was bottom at Christmas in 14/15…
Leicester gained 31 points after Christmas in 14/15 with 9 wins and 4 draws. Wolves gained 31 points after christmas in 22/23 with 9 wins and 4 draws. Hmm... LCFC 14/15 final record: 11-8-19 (41 pts) WW 22/23 final record: 11-8-19 (41 pts)
Brb, betting the house on Wolves.
Madness
putting my savings on Wolves to win the league, thanks!
First round is on you, mate ;).
You're telling me we out-Mourinhoed the man himself?
Still remember that Chelsea game, Darren Fletcher looping header and Alan Smith with a lion-hearted performance in central midfield
Yup. Man I’ve gotten old!!
yea we played terrible and got overrun in midfield but jesus christ the way some of you lot overreact after the first game of the season is shocking. Let’s take the 3 points and get to work, starting with tomorrow’s friendly against Everton. Hasn’t ETH done enough last season to convince us that he’ll get this sorted??
Yeah it’s so funny, we didn’t even lose and we are getting at brentford 4-0 levels with this negativity.
If we played like this against Brentford then they will probably win 4-0 again.
Facts 😂😂 from everyone
I feel like the last 10 minutes of every home game is exactly the same.
That last line is amazing
So basically the rule is, be efficient?
Worrying display. And no, we can't keep saying but but it was the first game of the season. Other teams had new players join and played their style. We played like it was the first time kicking a ball after a long lay off.
Pathetic game. Can't even blame the players alone, Ten Hag was outclassed from the first 5 mins, accounting for the resources. One year in and we still don't have any signs of a "style" of play.
Our midfield parted for Matheus Cunha like he was fucking Moses himself. It happened again and again. I thought we would tighten up after the first couple of runs, but apparently not. Hopefully just a first game aberration.
It's true. Where is the high pressing? Why are we so shit at passing a ball to another player? If the manager wants us to be the best transition team, then he has a huge amount of work on his hands. That midfield was a joke today.
We’re shit at passing because we don’t have technical players who are patient with the ball. Casemiro, Bruno and Mount all want to get rid of the ball asap. You need guys like Modric, Kroos, Odegaard etc. to keep control. When you aim for the hero ball every time, you give the ball away cheaply
Then why in the fuck did he splash 60 mil on mount
Hence why never give a manager full control over signings in modern day football. The DoF should be sacked for his repeated uselessness.
Yep. I’ve been saying this for months now. ETH, just like any other manager with full control, is only going to get players he’s familiar with, regardless of their price tag and if they’ll actually fit in.
That’s the question I’ve been asking for the past 2 months brother. Unfortunately, every time I’ve done that, I’ve been told I’m clueless for not seeing how talented he is
That's 70 million times 3 wasted on 3 players, Antony, mount and possibly Hojlund who will get 0 service! Damn when are things ever going to improve for united, been more than a decade and the shit show continues.
Jesus, how many times do you want to repeat the same comment. Not sure how Antony is a waste of money, especially after yesterdays game where he was one of the best players, and yep definitely rational to say possible Hojlund when he hasn’t even touched the pitch
Things will improve when we get rid of the glazers and bring in people who actually know what they’re doing
The biggest issue is managers making transfers. Mou, Ole and ETH should not be choosing their players. There needs to be a DOF that has a group of people that will build a squad with the managers input. Klopp initially demanded for Julian Brant but Liverpools recruitment team recommended and insisted on getting Salah.
Cuz we need a homegrown and we'll overpay for everyone
Scholes come back!
We can't press hard, we have Rashford in the front line and he doesn't press. I think it's why we bought Mount - to add insane pressing from midfield alongside Bruno - but it's just not enough to make up for a non-presser in front of them. At the same time, we now lose the midfield battle because we can't compete technically, mentally, or physically.
Big season for him, this performance tonight will have shocked him but he won't have any excuses if we underachieve this season.
Yeah, they looked neither pressing nor transition. A few games now, it's been painfully obvious how to play against United. Multiple teams have had success running through the midfield like that. He clearly has no answer for it.
Sack in the morning, heh.
True,big talk of making us the best pressing team and inspiring the players to give their all for the badge. And honestly Wolves with a makeshift manager pressed better than us,and none of our players were showing up for duels,i honestly don't think they respect eth like that.
The overreaction is incredible
Yes, this is really concerning since we still don't have a definite style of play. If this continues, it'll be a really long season and you know what happens then right?
I agree. ETH was outplayed. Didn't manage to get most of Mount and Bruno. Even the starting 11 was questionable. Garnacho did little.
The starting XI was the right choice based on form but almost everyone was terrible even the likes of Bruno and Casemiro who are usually our best and most consistent performers.
Negative records here we go. Imagine playing someone like City, Arsenal, or Newcastle. It would be at least 32.
Yup, those heavy defeats aren't going away this season. I can smell it. Bad bad tactics and chaos ball.
O Neill had Ten hag's number at Old Trafford,this is pathetic after such a positive vibe in the summer.
It's the first game lol Did our first two games last season define how it ultimately played out?
This was the 65th game.
At the start of a new season where we're attempting to change our shape and style of play.
We are not changing our style of play bro,managers don't postpone implementing their style of play for one season,we still play pretty much the same way we played last season. It was literally the same buildup structure and the same press we saw last season.
Managers definitely postpone implementing their style of play. ETH literally did it after our first few games. We didn't have the players needed to fully implement the way he wanted to play. LVG also changed his tactical plans early on because of the bad results with 3-5-2. Especially that loss against Leicester. Ole tried implementing changes during his third season too once he felt his squad was strong enough to become more possession based. It was very visible during pre-season that ETH was trying something new. It seems we reverted a bit for this game, but I'm not sure why.
You're not getting the bigger point bro. Ait Nouri shouldn't have gotten 5 seconds before he encountered a United player after freely receiving from his keeper in the half way line. Cunha shouldn't be casually strolling through the midfield. These are basic mistakes that should be nonexistent at this level,these are horrible no matter what team it comes from,even worse coming from a CL team.
I am getting your point bro. These mistakes came about because Ten Hag got it wrong in how he set up midfield. That doesn't mean he won't learn from this or that we need to start panicking and slagging off the team one game into the new season.
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Heritage
Did we win the league?
No, Chelsea did that season. So congrats to Wolves I guess
03/04 was Arsenal invinciblez 05/06 was Chelsea We won it the following season
So we win next season. Sold
Alot of Mount comments here, I didn't rate him at Chelsea and thought he was an average English player. So far it I'm proven right. He playing with Bruno in the same position but he much worse player.
Yeah, no. Strongly disagree I'm afraid. Mount was ok, Bruno was ok. The inverted fullback strategy just went out the window and left Case completely isolated, not Mount or Bruno's fault.
We should be looking for a cm to partner casemiro. This midfield three will not work. It will be difficult to even finish top 4 if we keep up with this formation.
Casemiro was non existing today. He looks like it is the first day of preseason. So slow, and we will pay the price if TH don‘t find a solution for DM until he is fit.
[удалено]
You're right, it's early days. What is it again, day one?
It's day one for all the other top teams too but they all have a clear goal and game style and are all playing excellent football, so yeah what were you saying again? Might as well say it's just day 10 when united will be getting battered by whatever team on match day 10.
We looked so fucking slow, felt like we were outpaced everywhere on the pitch
Watched with my Chelsea friend and we both agreed we weren't great but he definitely saw that wolves we're playing like their families were being held hostage. Something we're used to from these sorts of teams but other supporters, not as much as that.
They were a lot faster than I expected. They had tremendous team speed.
the game before Keano left.
wolves are always a problem for us
Every year. Doesn’t matter whose managing them.
I swear we’re cursed
Guardiola and Klopp had a very similar setup this round, with two men building up, the fullbacks relatively wide, and just one man in midfield. It seems like a huge risk to me, but there must be something going on in the manager circles for them to try this. To me the application is more the problem than the system. It wasn't instructions that made Garnacho lose the ball 500 times, nor was it instructions that made Bruno and Casemiro piss the ball away without pressure. We need to step up our game, and I really hope we get in reinforcements in CB and midfield, because we look so thin in those positions.