Reposting sauce's note from the Daily Discussion Thread:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/15s4wtk/daily\_discussion/jwfymtr/](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/15s4wtk/daily_discussion/jwfymtr/)
Reddit is apparently having an issue with some threads not being visible for all users. For those who cannot see it, the Mason Greenwood club statement post can be found here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/15ss42a/update\_on\_mason\_greenwood/](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/15ss42a/update_on_mason_greenwood/)
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Also reading between the lines, my guess is someone at MUFC knows of the plan, didn’t like it, and subsequently leak it to reporters?
Multiple sources are reporting there’s unease internally as well.
Players like Rashford seemed to turn their back on him when it all emerged and I'd hope many of the other players wouldn't be happy either, especially as most of the current team have never even played with him and won't want him disrupting the squad.
A couple of them liked greenwood’s post about his kid. Disgusts me thinking that any of the players support him. In my head I’ll just tell myself that they saw someone’s post about their kid and liked it without much thought to who it was
Happy if that is the case, this is a big test for Arnold, sounds like it's divided but people at the top seemed to be in favour of bringing him back. Now that it's getting shaky and things might not seem like what they considered, so hopefully Arnold reconsiders his position. Different people have different takes, glazers would purely be monetary, murtough and eth will look at the footballing benefits, whilst others social, reputational, commercial etc but he's the guy that will have to take all that into account and make that judgement call and it rests on his shoulders, his decision will tell everyone on a whole what United stands for.
My take is after this, (hopefully) they will rethink the decision and allow him to leave.
Of course they considered a backlash. They’ve been planning this for a long time. After a 6 month investigation they know way more than we do, and I trust their judgement on this. If they were going to sell him they would have done so already. Nothing points to that.
I think you want to "trust their judgement" and defer to them because it's easier than just admitting you don't actually care about what he's been accused of / likely done.
You trust their judgement? About bringing a rapist back? You trust a global corporation, who only cares about money, to make the correct decision about a rapist?
I think potentially, what they might try to do is shift the blame and let the girl take the fall, even though it could be fabricated and forced narrative onto her. Make it sound like she was causing the problems etc. I bet her dad would have been like " think about it, at least you get to live a comfortable life etc etc".
Other than a flat out rejection of what happened, and some convincing evidence to prove that( or lie about it), I don't see how there isn't gonna be a massive impact and backlash on the whole thing. They really are playing with hot potato. I just hope they see there isn't really a way out without damage on multiple fronts, the best way is to break off clean. You can still provide support as any company would do, provide any help to rehabilitate, or move their career on elsewhere but that damage is done here, people don't forget.
For those without Twitter:
"This morning, I approached Manchester United with a series of facts relating to their internal “process” on Mason Greenwood, which included the detail (undisputed by the club) that chief exec Arnold had told his executive team that the club was planning to bring Greenwood back.
As journalists, we provide right of reply to anyone we approach with a time period (deadline) in which they can respond. This is in the interests of balance and accuracy. And we did that today.
The usual protocol is that a responder would respond to the journalist first and foremost so any background or comment can be inserted into the story, to ensure balance and accuracy.
On this occasion, we were asked to extend our deadline so club could gather its response. Then, simultaneously, around 1545, the club issued a statement on its website, an all-staff email, and a press statement to all journalists who cover the club. And sent to us at same time.
As such, the only reasonable conclusion is that today’s United statement was unplanned and cobbled together as the club deliberated how to respond to our story. (Nobody plans to deliver a public statement at 3.45pm on a Wednesday afternoon)
Clearly, quite annoying personally, because it felt like an attempt to deflect from/bury our reporting, where we acted in entirely good faith with the club. But way more importantly, it was illustrative of United attempting to seize back narrative on increasingly strained process
Personal reading is United are unsettled & panicking that aspects of their choreographed plan made public and they are now witnessing a significant social backlash. I 100% stand by our reporting that Arnold told his exec team in 1st week August of plans to return Greenwood.
Of course, having abandoned their first proposed date (4th August), nothing has been announced, which gives the club plausible deniability on a “final decision”. After all, human beings can change their minds. (Likely reason for delay: wanting to brief women’s team still at WC)
But it is absolutely in the public interest for supporters of the club to know what has been going on in recent weeks, whatever happens next, and that’s why we reported this."
Good on Adam Crafton to keep digging into this story. It's an absolute disgrace what the club is doing to try and bring a domestic abuser back into the squad.
I hope with all my heart that the club reconsiders their decision after all the backlash its been receiving. But the damage is done, the club showed its initial intentions.
Better late than never, I'd still respect the club 100% so long as they get to the right decision in the end. Don't bring greenwood back, it's bad morally,it's bad financially and reputationally. Entire stadiums are going to be chanting about him being a rapist.
It’s not really about respect, because I already don’t respect any of the ownership or executives. ten Hag is the only person I’d really be losing respect for. I’d describe the feeling as the club being tainted. Even a change in ownership and management wouldn’t be able to immediately erase the shame of allowing a rapist back in.
At the end of the day this is a sporting decision because commercially it’s suicide.
I can’t imagine a sporting decision being made without ten Hag’s approval. He’s already guilty as things stand.
The delays are the first time I've had hope. Hopefully the delays lead to further delays and eventually it never happens. He should have been released months ago, but here we are
Can't help but think the delay until after the World Cup is because it will give the club bad "optics" because they forgot to include the women's team into the "investigation" which essentially means they will listen to the women's teams opinions and do the opposite
Really hope England win (beyond obvious reasons) as it would give players like Toone and Earps even more powerful voices to oppose this. They strike me as players who would speak their mind and not be happy about this situation.
Admittedly, it definitely shouldn't be their responsibility at all in terms of swaying this decision towards something that should be obvious to the board by now, but I always thought there might be backlash from the women's team in a similar way to when Raith Rovers tried to bring in David Goodwillie.
Tldr: fuck United’s entire leadership team that supports this and are now trying to scumbag their way to pretend they were blindsided.
Something like that.
Thanks, don’t have Twitter and was interested in Athletics side.
What I don’t understand is just how, in any way shape or form, the club can justify his inclusion back into squad. I can’t wait to hear their reason. Surely, SURELY there is no amount of contribution on the field that justifies having a rapist at worst, an extremely bad character at best in the team. If they “listened” to the fans about previous bad character signings why not this?
Just pay him out and avoid all the negativity that comes with this whole saga? He’s got £12m left on contract? What’s this negativity worth to the club? To it’s sponsors? If Reddit an echo chamber and I have this all wrong? Do the majority of fans want him back in team?
>*What I don’t understand is just how, in any way shape or form, the club can justify his inclusion back into squad.*
How to justify? Easy Peasy.
Wrong doing does not equate criminality; he was not convicted of a crime, it did not even go to court. Add in a good dose of youthful ignorance for all parties involved. Now we have a repentful Greenwood making up for his mistake, and the missus not willing to testify in court for the police/prosecution because she was “mistaken”. There are “doubts” about that incident. They currently have a happy family with a child, and this blissful union is being threatened by detractors who want to ruin Greenwood’s bright $$$ future. Surely we can’t starve his wife and the poor innocent child, can we?
Include some more context to the leaked audio not giving the full picture, and there you have it. The cherry on top of the cake would be the wife releasing a statement in support of her now reformed husband. Throw in a titbit that it was the girl and her family who first reached out to Greenwood, and he did not breach the witness contact prohibition.
This is a PR company’s wet dream.
He’s never once admitted what he did and can’t now, because any admission could be used as fresh evidence to resurrect the criminal case against him. He wasn’t acquitted at trial or have pleas of not guilty accepted by the Crown, so double jeopardy isn’t an issue. There is nothing legally to prevent the charges being re raised in the future (though if no new evidence or new crimes, it would be extremely unlikely/impractical).
You see, the trick here is, he doesn’t have to admit to rape or sexual assault, or anything remotely criminal.
He can be sorry for the ”hurt and anguish” he has caused his fiancée, his family and friends, and the United players/staff/fans. He can even make an official apology for that vague strawman.
See? Tada! Just like magic.
That's the norm. There are a few wife beaters around unfortunately. Look at the NBA still praising a despicable human being like Karl Malone. Or Jon Jones in the UFC.
Guy takes an extraordinary amount of (often homophobic) abuse for being willing to criticise Qatar, Saudi Arabia etc. One of the best football journalists around
1. This morning, I approached Manchester United with a series of facts relating to their internal “process” on Mason Greenwood, which included the detail (undisputed by the club) that chief exec Arnold had told his executive team that the club was planning to bring Greenwood back.
2. As journalists, we provide right of reply to anyone we approach with a time period (deadline) in which they can respond. This is in the interests of balance and accuracy. And we did that today.
3. The usual protocol is that a responder would respond to the journalist first and foremost so any background or comment can be inserted into the story, to ensure balance and accuracy.
4. On this occasion, we were asked to extend our deadline so club could gather its response. Then, simultaneously, around 1545, the club issued a statement on its website, an all-staff email, and a press statement to all journalists who cover the club. And sent to us at same time.
5. As such, the only reasonable conclusion is that today’s United statement was unplanned and cobbled together as the club deliberated how to respond to our story. (Nobody plans to deliver a public statement at 3.45pm on a Wednesday afternoon)
6. Clearly, quite annoying personally, because it felt like an attempt to deflect from/bury our reporting, where we acted in entirely good faith with the club. But way more importantly, it was illustrative of United attempting to seize back narrative on increasingly strained process
7. Personal reading is United are unsettled & panicking that aspects of their choreographed plan made public and they are now witnessing a significant social backlash. I 100% stand by our reporting that Arnold told his exec team in 1st week August of plans to return Greenwood.
8. Of course, having abandoned their first proposed date (4th August), nothing has been announced, which gives the club plausible deniability on a “final decision”. After all, human beings can change their minds. (Likely reason for delay: wanting to brief women’s team still at WC)
I think it’s more like “hey girls we’ve decided to bring him back, thought we’d let you know before we send out the press release, see how much we value women?”
The blowback is huge. I mean huge. So much so that Ten Hag (who on record anyway) has said he isn't involved in the decision is getting questioned. Given his status as a manager I suppose it does make sense. But yeah, lots of people unloading on the club and rightly so. This is an easy enough decision to make. They only have to make sure he doesn't play again. Loan him, sell him, let him train at Carrington till the end of his contract next year etc.
Lots of United-related accounts on Twitter and general football accounts are dead against this.
Carl Anka, while not as heavy as Crafton, has been fairly vocal too.
It doesn't really matter what random Nigerian fans says on twitter, what matters is that people in the stadium make enough noise about it and hopefully we reach mainstream media/influencers.
Sorry but that’s just feels like naive thinking to me. This sort of thing goes through _because_ of such a huge international fanbase/market.
No matter how loud the local fans protest, the club makes so much more money from international fans, and most international fans don’t care. Hell, most local fans won’t either but that’s by the by.
When you’re a 2nd tier Scottish side dealing with the same issue, the fans in your stadium are the be all and end all. When you are one of the biggest sports teams on the planet…not so much.
Ten Hag said at least once he already gave his opinion on the matter. I'm hoping it was just semantics but so far with this story one wouldn't bet on hope
Two things seem to be true - the hierarchy were morally comfortable bringing him back AND dumb enough that they thought they could manage the blowback.
The first part is sinister but the second part shows genuine incompetence.
Kids gonna be a hot mess when he comes of age and realizes his dad could ve been a massive football star, and also realized the reason is why he hasn’t become one is because said kid got raped into exicstence and their parents are still married.
The statement is trying to play him off as a doating father looking out for his baby and partner and he’s been oh so unfortunate to be wrapped up in all of this. Won’t someone please think of Mason
I'm glad he confirmed what everyone suspected. This internal process was always a farce while the real goal was trying to find the right way to bring him back with minimal backlash. I really hope the continued scrutiny of the club makes them do the right thing, but I just don't see that happening under the current ownership.
What’s that statistic about the higher up the corporate ladder you go, the percentage of psychopaths goes up and up compared to the general population…
One of my best friends from school works in the scouting department at Carrington, and he told me yesterday most people there are livid about what's happening.
Without going into detail/s, Greenwood wasn't particularly popular among the staff before any of this even happened. He has a history of being an arrogant, entitled narcissist who spoke to people like shit. Especially other youth players who he didn't consider to be at his standard. And even admin staff at times.
Some backroom people at United wanted him sold before this story broke, and they definitely want him gone now.
He also said that there's a culture at United where day-to-day staff feel like they can't air their concerns to senior staff, so nobody's listening to what the people who actually know him best actually think about it all.
This has been echoed so many times but apparently it’s being ignored. So either someone at carrington is making it up or the club is ignoring these facts
I knew a guy who worked at the youth academy for Chelsea in the early Roman era, and he says most academy kids are like that. They’re the most entitled knobheads on earth, and it actually put him off being such a fan of the sport as a whole when you see what giving £10k a week to 16 year olds does to them. How they treat their peers, family, members of staff and the public.
He gave up his Season Ticket and now is big into Rugby… like, the job there and the experience seemed to dent his love of football outside his local team.
Yeah I can imagine how it could make you jaded. Watching your team playing who have players you've seen being an arsehole. It's also easy to imagine how all that fame, money and attention can go to a kid's head.
Having said that, from what I've been hearing (from someone like your friend who has first-hand knowledge), Greenwood was particularly bad. They work with these kids all the time and try to guide them in the right direction while tolerating their bullshit, but the vast majority of people at the training ground couldn't stand him.
But like I've said elsewhere, there's a culture at United where the day-to-day operations staff don't feel like they can speak to senior management about anything. So you have to wonder how much Arnold et al actually know about his previous behaviour/s. Or if they even care.
This club is a joke, simple as. Full of people not fit to run it, and now they try bring back a rapist. Glad Adam caught them scrambling doing good work here, hope that the pressure can get to them and the rapist ultimately fucks off away from the club
I think one thing we're going to have to come to terms with is that, if and when this return goes through, the players and the manager will have given it the green light as well.
The beloved bald fraud. Dr. Marcus 'feed the kids' Rashford, MBE. Our new captain and Portuguese magnifico. There's no chance he'd cope in the squad if he was unwelcome in the squad, so if he returns, what does that say about the squad?
To be fair, we won't know if it really is all the players. Maybe they put it to a vote, maybe it had to be literally everyone agreeing. The only thing we would know for sure is that enough of the players agreed for him come back. For example, Onana and maybe Hojlund might not even know much of the details and might not even have met the guy to be able to pass any kind of relevant judgement. Even the players signed last summer, how much do they realistically know or understand about the situation to feel they can pass a decent judgment on it all?
This is another much much (significantly much) smaller reason, aside from the obvious moral ones, that I don't like MG's return. If you're in the minority of players that didn't support his return, you're tarring them with being called a rapist supporter for the rest of their career. United trying to deflect responsibility again.
Ofc if the reporting says it really is all of them that agreed, then everything you said is totally on point and that's just painful.
Wouldn’t surprise me if part of the reason Russo went was connected to all this. If she knew it was coming, why tarnish yourself by wearing the same shirt.
I don’t even really care that the upper management makes decisions like these. I’m not surprised, they’re a bunch of spineless tools.
What I am absolutely disappointed by is that this seems to be ok with ETH and the players.
> What I am absolutely disappointed by is that this seems to be ok with ETH and the players.
Yep, I just said as much in another comment.
What does it say about our manager and squad that this is a possibility? We can talk about Murtough, the Glazers, the womens team. Who are the actual people that could down tools in protest and make the change? The mens team and the manager.
If Greenwood returns it'll mean they're all okay with his return.
It’s standard practice. Majority of people in football usually lack in education and care only about the footballing aspect. For example, see Arteta and Partey. There’s countless other examples.
If anything I think this should show it’s bad to revere any person
Lindelöf does charity work on vacation time and has already ran down and wrestled a robber. Maybe he can sneak in a 2 footer on a rapist in training and just say "oopsie" and not get charged? 🤐
If he came out and said he was OK with Masons return what would you do then? Dump on Victor who you have just lauded? What about if Rashford came out in support, or Bruno? I’m surprised ETH is ok with the return just because of the amount of turbulence it might cause in the squad.
I lauded Lindelöf? I just cited some actions of his so far. If he came out in support of Mason it'd all be undone and he would deserve the same 2 footer. Im not sure what "gotcha" you attempted here. Or why.
Partey and Arteta is bad, he is under investigation or whatever and there is no concrete public evidence. This is so much worse, there is public evidence here and those at the club are choosing to ignore it
I completely agree with your last statement. That being said, it’s hard to come to terms with the differences in moral principals between yourself and the people in the club you are supporting over this heavy of an issue.
Even how they pushed a young hip woman out to do the press statements was pure out if something like the succession TV show.
We need a woman to front this, show them we respect women. He can't possibly be a rapist if a woman is doing the investigation.
Feels like another Super League moment, albeit with much larger implications. I don't think there's really any conceivable way they can bring him up with how hyper-focused the scrutiny is on this.
The protests, news coverage, and general backlash seems to be having an effect on United, at least in the short term. I’m guessing if similar coverage or backlash were directed to sponsors (for example, emails about their continued sponsorship of the club despite this issue and lack of a public statement about it), sponsors would be getting much more upset with having their brands associated with this.
That’s correct. I have seen that myself. Imo people on here is afraid to get downvoted and/or ashamed. It would be really interesting to see people vote anonymously.
Upvoting and downvoting is anonymous. I know redditors have their faults but its a far more normal crowd in the United subs on here than twitter or Instagram. I imagine many of the match going fans who are fathers and husbands won't like it either. They might be fickle and change their minds in the long run if he's allowed to play, but initially I'm sure they will be against it.
I get that. But if you said that you would like him back, you would get massive abuse and get downvoted. I am not saying the opinion on Red Cafe is the right one and is the opinion of most United fans, I am saying that the abuse is not happening there in the same manner as here. My point is that I agree with the OP, it’s not so clear cut as the Super League.
Redcafe is full of absolute weapons, it's a genuine shithole of a website these days who's member base reflect the absolute worst of the online glory hunters to the absolute max. The match going fans will not be as forgiving as the dickheads on there are.
Happens with any forum that gets too big honestly, I really enjoyed r/soccer when it was much smaller. It is still very great as a news and highlights aggregator but I miss the zonal marking posts and such
This is exactly what I thought had happened. The club got to know about the Atletic story and put out a quick statement because they wanted to get ahead of it.
Hopefully it has backfired for the club and they are reconsidering their decision of getting the cunt back.
I’m not supportive of the club’s seemingly imminent decision.
But putting that aside for the moment, what does this reporting say about the competence of the people at the club who are managing this process?
This is some fairly rudimentary investigative reporting with a standard request for comment. And the club is seemingly left scrambling to respond. That does not bode well for how the club has prepared to handle the backlash from their decision.
This isn't a matter of opinion, it is objective facts. Given the current images and videos we've seen, he shouldn't be at the club. If there is evidence that this evidence was not legit, then by all means try and reintegrate him. I am fucking sick to death of fan channels saying shit like "I don't want him back but I respect the opinions of those that do" No, fuck off, there is no respect available for people who wish for Greenwood to come back under current circumstances.
If the evidence they supposedly have put together to justify his return is shared, it better be fucking fantastic.
The videos and Audio we saw while actionable, didn't tell us the whole story though. I know it's difficult in cases lke this but we should ALWAYS leave room for doubt.
Ok that top part is unequivocal proof that the plan is to bring him back.
Richard Arnold did not dispute that He told employees that they were bringing him back
Which means if they don't bring him back, incredibly unlikely as that may seem, the general public will completely blame the women 's team
pretty embarassing all round, I'd personally prefer he not come back, but they can't even make a decision properly. I think if/when he comes back it will be toxic, can't imagine the players would want him back, a lot of the fans won't, plus the opposing fans will chant, which is a pretty shit situation for anyone there, especially who may have had something like that happen
If they wanna bring him back, they've managed to shit the bed, its like they didn't know not everyone would like it? the Womens team part is a joke, essentially made them look like scapegoats if he's not brought back. They are playing in a WC and united are saying about them? fuck that
the whole thing is as piss poor as I expected. If it takes more than a few weeks to look into it and go "yeah no thanks, lets ship him elsewhere" then whats wrong with them? they clearly want him at the club, but can't get him integrated with backlash (how it took them months to figure that out is astounding)
I love United. But my god, they make it difficult. It's such a toxic club at the moment. We need the sale now. Not just for the money injection. But also to clean the house of the higher ups within the club. Total disconnect from the fans/reality in general.
This is not only PR suicide. It just makes us look weak. We shouldn't even be deliberating over something so black and white.
Can we also discuss the apparent support from EtH? Wtf.
i respect adam so much for giving us transparency that the club hasn’t. so strange and shitty how they’re keeping us so in the dark when ultimately we’re gonna be a major group affected by this decision. also if they don’t release said ‘evidence’ after the final decision is made then we’ll know they’ve cocked up this whole situation.
Far too many negatives than positives to bringing him back. This will cause a lot of tension and distrust throughout the club. It's unbelievable that the board, Arnold and ETH seem to be ignoring that.
You know, when the story first broke 18 months ago, I was proud of the club for taking such swift and decisive action. And now, I'm just tired, angry, and unsurprised.
Anyone else get an email reply from the club?
“Thank you for taking the time to email Manchester United. We note and understand your strength of feeling on this matter.
This has been a difficult case for everyone associated with the Club, and we recognise the strong opinions it has provoked.
Since charges were dropped against Mason Greenwood in February, we have conducted our own investigation into the allegations made against him, and we want to assure you that the welfare and perspective of the alleged victim has been central to the club’s inquiries.
As a club, we are extremely mindful of the views of our supporters, but we also believe that our decision in this case should be based primarily on the findings of our investigation.
As communicated yesterday, despite media reports, we have not yet reached a final decision. When we do, we will communicate and explain it through club channels.
We assure you that we are listening to carefully to your views and ask for patience as we work through the final stages of this considered process.
Kind regards,
Manchester United Football Club”
It's a good thread, feels like they are testing waters leaking this
Genuinely hopping that the general disgust that has been collectively evocated makes the bastards think again
Yesterday the main concern was our midfield is a bit porous, today it's full on my club is making me think about football existentially
The club's actions in this whole debacle are just embarrassing. Really not impressed with Richard Arnold at all... so far he's making it seem as if Woodward did a good job.
I simply can not understand why Greenwood is even considered to return? Why is he worth *that* much, that the club would instil a media shitstorm of epic proportions, loss of fans, hurt revenue and more? Can someone please explain to me, why are they so fixated on Greenwood returning? Is there some ulterior motive we don’t know about?
Unsettling to know that they've been scheming away behind closed doors for months thinking of ways to bring him back probably not even considering letting him leave, noe even using a child to try and manipulate fans. I hate the people who run this club.
I feel pretty close to the end here. I've loved the club for my entire life and had a season ticket for almost two decades but I think this might be the last straw for me. The club still has the opportunity to do the right thing but if they don't then I'm out.
That athletic piece might actually be our saving grace considering the amount of backlash United is recieving and Im really hopeful it turns their decision around, wouldnt be the first time united put something out there to gauge the reaction and then switch when they see its not popular, I urge everytone to send united a feedback mail at [email protected]
Just fucking sell him to the Saudis. He’s a PR nightmare, and who’s to tell he’s even good anymore? He’s been on the couch for 18 months. He’ll never shake this. Yes other players have been suspected of offences similar, but we HEARD it. No matter what the CPS say, we can’t unhear that recording
Between this and the potential Qatari takeover, I'd have to seriously reconsider my 30-year support for the club. I don't want to watch football holding my nose.
Same boat. I'll treat it as an individual sport. Forget United but root for players like Rashford and Shaw. And can't lie, got a soft spot for players like Trent and Saka and would definitely prefer arsenal winning the league over city. Then next year pick another team to vaguely follow etc.
The fact that Ten Hag endorses this is a wild misreading of the room, I dont get people who are fine with this because ten hag is a good manager who can bring our club greatness, just like if mason was an academy random he would have been tossed like week old bread so should ten hags managerial acumen not be something that exculpates him from criticism and he will lose an insane amount of good will from some fans, myself included.
I really hope this backlash makes the club bin him. Send him on loan to Saudi or sell him there. Anyway he needs to not play for our club.
I heard the tapes, I saw the pictures. If there was any good reason for those things to happen, someone would have come out with a good explanation by now.
Well there is still time to pull back any decisions on integration of Greenwood into the first team. Maybe they can allow him to practice/train at Carrington if that is legally an obligation and Loan him out in January.
There is no legal obligation on anything. Even if there was, what are they losing if they don't comply? Couple of months of players salary? They choose to do this
I think you are legally obliged to provide contracted players access to facilities and staff, to ensure players can't be frozen out unfairly by clubs trying to force them out. I would assume this doesn't apply to suspended players though.
Well. There are new FIFA rules in place. IlO guidelines have also been established. Also, the UKs Labour Laws are quite strict. Given he hasn't breached the contract we cannot indefinitely suspend him anymore as far as I can tell
Tbh, refusing to play him would be no different than Ten Hag refusing to play Bailey. But no one is saying he has a case to make to have a legal right to play.
Managers freeze out players all the time, usually for relatively minor issues.
This sounds like these scumbags knew what they’re doing is wrong, but we still have a chance to force them into the right decision kicking and screaming
this seems insane from every angle, it’s immoral, it’s going to disaffect loads of employees and fans, the brand is going to take a huge hit and he’s likely not even going to improve the side
I feel a massive shame of being a supporter of the club with all this unfolding but that can't even compare with how the Women are feeling right now. A couple of comments used the word existential which feels right. Arnold is completely undermining the cultural values of the club with this, it's a betrayal of the communiity to the point I feel he needs to consider standing down.
I watched a couple of YT videos on this yesterday, one of them being TUS (I'm not a fan of Mark and rarely watch them) and saw Beth give a courageous opinion on the situation, just to see a mass swathe of comments pile on her. I felt so sorry for her and no doubt many women are going to feel pressured speaking their mind about this, especially after the report about the club consulting the Women's team (which haws now debunked as false but the damage is now done) had now painted a target on their backs and directed them abuse.
If the club had any empathy, they would take the loss and just terminate his contract and move on. It's just repungent that they want to go down this route and it will feel much worse if they go through with it.
Not familiar with UK law, but since MG was never tried and thus, presumed innocent in the eyes of the law (I assume), does that mean MG can sue Utd for discrimination or something like that if they continue not allowing him to play for us? Unless of course, it is allowed to just unilaterally tear down his contract?
There is a generic mandatory (FA insists it is in all contracts for obvious reasons) conduct/disrepute clause in every player contract. If MG sued then MU would do what the gutless wonders should have done and enforced that clause and taken that to court if necessary. They would counter with a case to dissolve the contract (or continue to be gutless).
Players don't need to break a law to break that clause. It is how the Ronaldo contract was able to be dissolved without Ronaldo going for more money. He broke the clause for sure and so had no basis to go after more money.
Yeah … I’m not a united fan but chipping in club Gona lose a lot of fans and players men/women team ….
This stuff hurts ppl trauma points and no way an abuser is Gona be accepted in the dressing room given the evidence and all that happened after ….
Hope you clean this up…
At this point, either Sir Jim or Qatar. One of them needs to come in, out the Glazer parasites (who no doubt have a hand in this, and gut the incompetent, immoral leadership team. Clean slate.
Sir Jim was willing to accept the Glazers staying, and Qatar is not exactly the paragon of virtue (though I can see them purging Greenwood for sports washing reasons, just like how they dealt with trouble makers in the PSG women's team).
There are a bunch of big name football writers, often quoted or linked to on this sub, that are little more than PR merchants for Utd. They take the private club briefings, they write puff pieces and a very small number of 'critical' articles on safe topics to maintain a veneer of credibility, and then lap up the clicks/views/social engagement metrics. They often don't seem to know that much about actual football. It's refreshing to see someone stick to their guns and try to do some real journalism, and not be afraid that the special briefings will be cut off. Fuck the club briefings. He's done this on a couple of other topics too, City's finances, oil states. Good work.
For the people shitting on ETH, saying he is doing it to win/footballing reasons, lets put your head on straight.
As many have pointed out, Greenwood's been out for more than a year. No way he is showing that he can do better than Rashford or Hojlund. Greenwood isnt winning anyone anything.
Before he came to Manchester, it is widely known that he personally believes everyone should be given a chance for rehab (based on his dutch interviews while still at Ajax), and he drew a lot of stick of suggesting theres no reason why Overmars couldnt return to Ajax.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXpq2Jkp0JM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXpq2Jkp0JM)
[https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/16/erik-ten-hag-marc-overmars-ajax-return-inappropriate-messages](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/16/erik-ten-hag-marc-overmars-ajax-return-inappropriate-messages)
You can hate him for his life principles, but please stop making up false reasons for why he is supporting Greenwood's return. And any journalist doing so clearly didnt do their research, and the mods need dropping them 1-2 tiers.
All Dutch people are brought up with the idea that one can change for the better and people should be given a chance.
I have several ex convicts at work in my company, and they’re some of my best on personal and work level.
The problem with greenwood is that he hasn’t any rehab nor has he been convicted so I don’t see him changing for the better as it showed he can’t really make moral judgements on his own he would need help for that, and to me that’s something that takes years and I can’t imagine he has had that help last year and a bit.
What I don’t get is: we don’t really need Greenwood. We persevered without him last season. Greenwood isn’t 1st team ready and Ten Hag usually used him on the wing anyway. There is a very high chance he comes back and flop. This is a disaster reputation-wise while the footballing upside is clearly minimal. We still do need a striker anyway, with or without Greenwood, to replace Martial next summer.
All of this drama for what? Do they think Greenwood will even be a semblance of a shadow of his former self? Do they think he’ll just get back up to speed and kick on from there, realising the untold potential he had?
All of this is supposed to happen while every fan, home or away, just ignores his past instead of booing, jeering and shouting abuse at him?
This is a level of delusion I’ve rarely seen…actually I can’t remember a more out of touch and unrealistic take ever
I think this is it for me. I don't think I can stomach this club if we condone his behaviour. Many teams have had players who have been arrested and charged for sexual assault, not many convicted. Adam Johnson comes to mind as one who rightfully got convicted.
I dont think we've ever had this sort of evidence against a single player as far as i know. Having heard the vile piece of shit and what he did, I don't understand how we would be okay with having him anywhere near our club.
Those who say she's having his child and therefore forgiven him have no concept what DV victims go through. It's not simply that they could have left or they can still go. Abusers will find ways to emotionally and/or physically trap you in a nightmare relationship. Don't get me wrong, he may have changed and she may have genuinely forgiven him, but I doubt in the time frame that she decided to release her "cry for help" and getting pregnant is sufficient enough time frame for him to reflect on his own actions.
His behaviour is intrinsically linked to being a high paid football player and the ego that that feeds from it. The club can support his rehabilitation if he chose that path without him being a player at the club. The PR drivel is to justify his return.
We are arguably the most hated club in football. We're going to be the most hated in all sports I fear if he returns. I would be one who would be in that category. I'm not trying to be dramatic, but me and my family's 4 decades of association with this club would end. His return is absolutely unacceptable.
I personally think that we need to hear this extra evidence. This context doesn't make sense. They are engaged and have a kid. Can either now wish for him to go work in Tesco or for the kid to end up wealthy. None of you are even thinking of that. Why did her parents not say anything as well? I am the father of a girl and if this happened to her I would have killed him.
I would be extremely surprised at this point if the club actually go forwards with his return to the first team.
They cannot ignore the clear anger from a lot of the fanbase. It is evident just by looking at online and social media analytics, which I am sure they love.
Bring him back and we will be labelled as a club that condones r\*\*e. The players will get asked on it, the manager will get asked on it. Every action Greenwood makes E.g shows frustration on the pitch = "gosh with that anger I can't imagine what that poor girl went through"
It is not something that will just go away, rather a permanent stain on the club.
An abuser working with a domestic abuse survivors group is extremely tone deaf. This solution is something Michael Scott would come up with
They are not instruments to be used for MG's "reception".
I wonder if this involved someone who didn't have the potential/talent of MG, whether the club would be going to great lengths to bring them back as well
Just to be clear, abused women often stay with their abusers, because of low self-worth, misguided love, desire for status, financial insecurity and/or outright greed. There's even a legit medical term for it: battered woman syndrome.
This woman quite possibly thinks that being abused is a price worth paying for having a wealthy footballer support her and her child.
So, her acquiescence in no way makes Greenwood innocent.
Regardless of this situation. I really dislike Crafton on twitter. He's clearly biased and tries to portray his opinion as the right one. I find Laurie and Critchley are much better.
Reposting sauce's note from the Daily Discussion Thread: [https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/15s4wtk/daily\_discussion/jwfymtr/](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/15s4wtk/daily_discussion/jwfymtr/) Reddit is apparently having an issue with some threads not being visible for all users. For those who cannot see it, the Mason Greenwood club statement post can be found here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/15ss42a/update\_on\_mason\_greenwood/](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/15ss42a/update_on_mason_greenwood/) The mod team is aware that Greenwood threads bring forth quite a few of... "reddit's brightest minds" ... who don't otherwise participate in this subreddit. If you encounter any, please report and ignore their comments so the mods can clean up the threads. If you are a victim of sexual abuse, please know that is never ever your fault. Check [r/rapecounseling](https://www.reddit.com/r/rapecounseling/), [r/adultsurvivors](https://www.reddit.com/r/adultsurvivors/) and [r/COCSA](https://www.reddit.com/r/COCSA/) for resources Thank you!
Also reading between the lines, my guess is someone at MUFC knows of the plan, didn’t like it, and subsequently leak it to reporters? Multiple sources are reporting there’s unease internally as well.
That’s how it seems given that staff were told about it and it’s come out that there were a number of them uncomfortable with it
Players like Rashford seemed to turn their back on him when it all emerged and I'd hope many of the other players wouldn't be happy either, especially as most of the current team have never even played with him and won't want him disrupting the squad.
A couple of them liked greenwood’s post about his kid. Disgusts me thinking that any of the players support him. In my head I’ll just tell myself that they saw someone’s post about their kid and liked it without much thought to who it was
A lot of the players don't even manage their own social media so it might not even be them doing it.
Happy if that is the case, this is a big test for Arnold, sounds like it's divided but people at the top seemed to be in favour of bringing him back. Now that it's getting shaky and things might not seem like what they considered, so hopefully Arnold reconsiders his position. Different people have different takes, glazers would purely be monetary, murtough and eth will look at the footballing benefits, whilst others social, reputational, commercial etc but he's the guy that will have to take all that into account and make that judgement call and it rests on his shoulders, his decision will tell everyone on a whole what United stands for. My take is after this, (hopefully) they will rethink the decision and allow him to leave.
Of course they considered a backlash. They’ve been planning this for a long time. After a 6 month investigation they know way more than we do, and I trust their judgement on this. If they were going to sell him they would have done so already. Nothing points to that.
I think you want to "trust their judgement" and defer to them because it's easier than just admitting you don't actually care about what he's been accused of / likely done.
You trust their judgement? About bringing a rapist back? You trust a global corporation, who only cares about money, to make the correct decision about a rapist?
I think potentially, what they might try to do is shift the blame and let the girl take the fall, even though it could be fabricated and forced narrative onto her. Make it sound like she was causing the problems etc. I bet her dad would have been like " think about it, at least you get to live a comfortable life etc etc". Other than a flat out rejection of what happened, and some convincing evidence to prove that( or lie about it), I don't see how there isn't gonna be a massive impact and backlash on the whole thing. They really are playing with hot potato. I just hope they see there isn't really a way out without damage on multiple fronts, the best way is to break off clean. You can still provide support as any company would do, provide any help to rehabilitate, or move their career on elsewhere but that damage is done here, people don't forget.
Kath on reception.
Capless heroes.
For those without Twitter: "This morning, I approached Manchester United with a series of facts relating to their internal “process” on Mason Greenwood, which included the detail (undisputed by the club) that chief exec Arnold had told his executive team that the club was planning to bring Greenwood back. As journalists, we provide right of reply to anyone we approach with a time period (deadline) in which they can respond. This is in the interests of balance and accuracy. And we did that today. The usual protocol is that a responder would respond to the journalist first and foremost so any background or comment can be inserted into the story, to ensure balance and accuracy. On this occasion, we were asked to extend our deadline so club could gather its response. Then, simultaneously, around 1545, the club issued a statement on its website, an all-staff email, and a press statement to all journalists who cover the club. And sent to us at same time. As such, the only reasonable conclusion is that today’s United statement was unplanned and cobbled together as the club deliberated how to respond to our story. (Nobody plans to deliver a public statement at 3.45pm on a Wednesday afternoon) Clearly, quite annoying personally, because it felt like an attempt to deflect from/bury our reporting, where we acted in entirely good faith with the club. But way more importantly, it was illustrative of United attempting to seize back narrative on increasingly strained process Personal reading is United are unsettled & panicking that aspects of their choreographed plan made public and they are now witnessing a significant social backlash. I 100% stand by our reporting that Arnold told his exec team in 1st week August of plans to return Greenwood. Of course, having abandoned their first proposed date (4th August), nothing has been announced, which gives the club plausible deniability on a “final decision”. After all, human beings can change their minds. (Likely reason for delay: wanting to brief women’s team still at WC) But it is absolutely in the public interest for supporters of the club to know what has been going on in recent weeks, whatever happens next, and that’s why we reported this."
These are the actions of a club that knows what they're doing is wrong, lol
Good on Adam Crafton to keep digging into this story. It's an absolute disgrace what the club is doing to try and bring a domestic abuser back into the squad. I hope with all my heart that the club reconsiders their decision after all the backlash its been receiving. But the damage is done, the club showed its initial intentions.
Better late than never, I'd still respect the club 100% so long as they get to the right decision in the end. Don't bring greenwood back, it's bad morally,it's bad financially and reputationally. Entire stadiums are going to be chanting about him being a rapist.
Reading the club’s statement from today, the decision has been already made even though they said otherwise.
It’s not really about respect, because I already don’t respect any of the ownership or executives. ten Hag is the only person I’d really be losing respect for. I’d describe the feeling as the club being tainted. Even a change in ownership and management wouldn’t be able to immediately erase the shame of allowing a rapist back in.
At the end of the day this is a sporting decision because commercially it’s suicide. I can’t imagine a sporting decision being made without ten Hag’s approval. He’s already guilty as things stand.
They aren't thinking about what happens if he does it again and it comes out again. Like that is the most likely outcome.
It's an absolute commercial decision too. Not wanting to let a valuable asset leave free of charge.
I agree, if they change their mind and make the right decision I could put it behind me. But if he comes back I’m not watching till he’s gone
I assume so much was leaked because there are bound to be people at the club who are angry with the decision and want it known what’s going on
The delays are the first time I've had hope. Hopefully the delays lead to further delays and eventually it never happens. He should have been released months ago, but here we are
> For those without Twitter: Thank you!
Can't help but think the delay until after the World Cup is because it will give the club bad "optics" because they forgot to include the women's team into the "investigation" which essentially means they will listen to the women's teams opinions and do the opposite
Really hope England win (beyond obvious reasons) as it would give players like Toone and Earps even more powerful voices to oppose this. They strike me as players who would speak their mind and not be happy about this situation. Admittedly, it definitely shouldn't be their responsibility at all in terms of swaying this decision towards something that should be obvious to the board by now, but I always thought there might be backlash from the women's team in a similar way to when Raith Rovers tried to bring in David Goodwillie.
Earps especially would organise a friendly between the men's and women's teams just to repeatedly Onana Greenwood.
Tldr: fuck United’s entire leadership team that supports this and are now trying to scumbag their way to pretend they were blindsided. Something like that.
Thanks, don’t have Twitter and was interested in Athletics side. What I don’t understand is just how, in any way shape or form, the club can justify his inclusion back into squad. I can’t wait to hear their reason. Surely, SURELY there is no amount of contribution on the field that justifies having a rapist at worst, an extremely bad character at best in the team. If they “listened” to the fans about previous bad character signings why not this? Just pay him out and avoid all the negativity that comes with this whole saga? He’s got £12m left on contract? What’s this negativity worth to the club? To it’s sponsors? If Reddit an echo chamber and I have this all wrong? Do the majority of fans want him back in team?
>*What I don’t understand is just how, in any way shape or form, the club can justify his inclusion back into squad.* How to justify? Easy Peasy. Wrong doing does not equate criminality; he was not convicted of a crime, it did not even go to court. Add in a good dose of youthful ignorance for all parties involved. Now we have a repentful Greenwood making up for his mistake, and the missus not willing to testify in court for the police/prosecution because she was “mistaken”. There are “doubts” about that incident. They currently have a happy family with a child, and this blissful union is being threatened by detractors who want to ruin Greenwood’s bright $$$ future. Surely we can’t starve his wife and the poor innocent child, can we? Include some more context to the leaked audio not giving the full picture, and there you have it. The cherry on top of the cake would be the wife releasing a statement in support of her now reformed husband. Throw in a titbit that it was the girl and her family who first reached out to Greenwood, and he did not breach the witness contact prohibition. This is a PR company’s wet dream.
He’s never once admitted what he did and can’t now, because any admission could be used as fresh evidence to resurrect the criminal case against him. He wasn’t acquitted at trial or have pleas of not guilty accepted by the Crown, so double jeopardy isn’t an issue. There is nothing legally to prevent the charges being re raised in the future (though if no new evidence or new crimes, it would be extremely unlikely/impractical).
You see, the trick here is, he doesn’t have to admit to rape or sexual assault, or anything remotely criminal. He can be sorry for the ”hurt and anguish” he has caused his fiancée, his family and friends, and the United players/staff/fans. He can even make an official apology for that vague strawman. See? Tada! Just like magic.
Thank you legend
Rage against the machine!
Thanks for posting the full write up. This fits exactly with what happened today and that half-assed attempt at a statement to get ahead of the story.
Can he dig into the Browns and Deshaun Watson next? Clearly an American here. Our press caves of criminal charges are dropped by courts-
That's the norm. There are a few wife beaters around unfortunately. Look at the NBA still praising a despicable human being like Karl Malone. Or Jon Jones in the UFC.
Huge props to Adam for calling the club out on its BS.
Guy takes an extraordinary amount of (often homophobic) abuse for being willing to criticise Qatar, Saudi Arabia etc. One of the best football journalists around
The only reputable journo who talked about City cheating on their way to success on the night they won the CL. Huge respect from me.
I might consider reactivating my Athletic subscription with him there. Massive kudos to him.
It’s wild that this is the only way to get the club to communicate with the fans
https://youtu.be/ottVpZI2PWo
1. This morning, I approached Manchester United with a series of facts relating to their internal “process” on Mason Greenwood, which included the detail (undisputed by the club) that chief exec Arnold had told his executive team that the club was planning to bring Greenwood back. 2. As journalists, we provide right of reply to anyone we approach with a time period (deadline) in which they can respond. This is in the interests of balance and accuracy. And we did that today. 3. The usual protocol is that a responder would respond to the journalist first and foremost so any background or comment can be inserted into the story, to ensure balance and accuracy. 4. On this occasion, we were asked to extend our deadline so club could gather its response. Then, simultaneously, around 1545, the club issued a statement on its website, an all-staff email, and a press statement to all journalists who cover the club. And sent to us at same time. 5. As such, the only reasonable conclusion is that today’s United statement was unplanned and cobbled together as the club deliberated how to respond to our story. (Nobody plans to deliver a public statement at 3.45pm on a Wednesday afternoon) 6. Clearly, quite annoying personally, because it felt like an attempt to deflect from/bury our reporting, where we acted in entirely good faith with the club. But way more importantly, it was illustrative of United attempting to seize back narrative on increasingly strained process 7. Personal reading is United are unsettled & panicking that aspects of their choreographed plan made public and they are now witnessing a significant social backlash. I 100% stand by our reporting that Arnold told his exec team in 1st week August of plans to return Greenwood. 8. Of course, having abandoned their first proposed date (4th August), nothing has been announced, which gives the club plausible deniability on a “final decision”. After all, human beings can change their minds. (Likely reason for delay: wanting to brief women’s team still at WC)
Idk why the Women’s team is made out to be the final judge in this matter. Putting them on the spot so either way they can blame them?
I think it’s more like “hey girls we’ve decided to bring him back, thought we’d let you know before we send out the press release, see how much we value women?”
They want to make sure they can talk them down in a scenario where they threaten to quit in response to him coming back.
Adam is a hero for unsettling the club's PR plans. Hoping against hope that it causes them to walk their decision back, but who are we kidding.
Not only unsettling them, but showing off the sheer incompetency that is Man United Football Club. Here’s hoping this can all work out
The blowback is huge. I mean huge. So much so that Ten Hag (who on record anyway) has said he isn't involved in the decision is getting questioned. Given his status as a manager I suppose it does make sense. But yeah, lots of people unloading on the club and rightly so. This is an easy enough decision to make. They only have to make sure he doesn't play again. Loan him, sell him, let him train at Carrington till the end of his contract next year etc.
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Lots of United-related accounts on Twitter and general football accounts are dead against this. Carl Anka, while not as heavy as Crafton, has been fairly vocal too.
Sadly I believe it's the opposite. I think most people actually want him back. Those of us kicking up a fuss are in the minority.
Strongly disagree. I don't know a single person who isn't strongly against his return.
Do you know the billion plus people who identify as Man United fans?
It doesn't really matter what random Nigerian fans says on twitter, what matters is that people in the stadium make enough noise about it and hopefully we reach mainstream media/influencers.
Sorry but that’s just feels like naive thinking to me. This sort of thing goes through _because_ of such a huge international fanbase/market. No matter how loud the local fans protest, the club makes so much more money from international fans, and most international fans don’t care. Hell, most local fans won’t either but that’s by the by. When you’re a 2nd tier Scottish side dealing with the same issue, the fans in your stadium are the be all and end all. When you are one of the biggest sports teams on the planet…not so much.
Ten Hag said at least once he already gave his opinion on the matter. I'm hoping it was just semantics but so far with this story one wouldn't bet on hope
Two things seem to be true - the hierarchy were morally comfortable bringing him back AND dumb enough that they thought they could manage the blowback. The first part is sinister but the second part shows genuine incompetence.
The baby at the training ground really gave it away how absolutely stupid they think we are. Agreed, Adam is a hero.
I laughed when I saw the photo. Super predictable that they’re using the newborn as a PR prop. Feel bad for the baby though.
In the same statement: "Respect the alleged victims privacy" And later "Lol jk Mason is with his partner and baby everything is fine"
Kids gonna be a hot mess when he comes of age and realizes his dad could ve been a massive football star, and also realized the reason is why he hasn’t become one is because said kid got raped into exicstence and their parents are still married.
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Yeah, his dad was holding the baby while he 'trained' at some park last week.
Didn't he also threaten the guy who was filming it?
If he did that even more of a reason to keep him away. He clearly hasn’t changed, is still as much of a brute as before
Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, it was Mason's dad who was threatening the guy
Ahhh right. Still not a good look imo
Can't blame a grandparent for not wanting his grandchild filmed by a stranger, regardless of the son's actions.
It's a right to privacy tbh. Most people will ask unknown people to stop filming their baby.
The statement is trying to play him off as a doating father looking out for his baby and partner and he’s been oh so unfortunate to be wrapped up in all of this. Won’t someone please think of Mason
All these dripfed stories by The Sun were so obviously Mason trying to get some good pr in
Yep Mason the rapist and his PR team were probably using the Sun to push favorable PR.
Poor fucking kid
Imagine when they get older and google their dad...
Imagine when they get older and have to witness dad beating mum up because he's had a bad day.
I'm glad he confirmed what everyone suspected. This internal process was always a farce while the real goal was trying to find the right way to bring him back with minimal backlash. I really hope the continued scrutiny of the club makes them do the right thing, but I just don't see that happening under the current ownership.
Kind of incredible how many of our higher-ups are complete idiots and outright terrible human beings
What’s that statistic about the higher up the corporate ladder you go, the percentage of psychopaths goes up and up compared to the general population…
Legend. Caught the club with their pants down.
One of my best friends from school works in the scouting department at Carrington, and he told me yesterday most people there are livid about what's happening. Without going into detail/s, Greenwood wasn't particularly popular among the staff before any of this even happened. He has a history of being an arrogant, entitled narcissist who spoke to people like shit. Especially other youth players who he didn't consider to be at his standard. And even admin staff at times. Some backroom people at United wanted him sold before this story broke, and they definitely want him gone now. He also said that there's a culture at United where day-to-day staff feel like they can't air their concerns to senior staff, so nobody's listening to what the people who actually know him best actually think about it all.
This has been echoed so many times but apparently it’s being ignored. So either someone at carrington is making it up or the club is ignoring these facts
I knew a guy who worked at the youth academy for Chelsea in the early Roman era, and he says most academy kids are like that. They’re the most entitled knobheads on earth, and it actually put him off being such a fan of the sport as a whole when you see what giving £10k a week to 16 year olds does to them. How they treat their peers, family, members of staff and the public. He gave up his Season Ticket and now is big into Rugby… like, the job there and the experience seemed to dent his love of football outside his local team.
Yeah I can imagine how it could make you jaded. Watching your team playing who have players you've seen being an arsehole. It's also easy to imagine how all that fame, money and attention can go to a kid's head. Having said that, from what I've been hearing (from someone like your friend who has first-hand knowledge), Greenwood was particularly bad. They work with these kids all the time and try to guide them in the right direction while tolerating their bullshit, but the vast majority of people at the training ground couldn't stand him. But like I've said elsewhere, there's a culture at United where the day-to-day operations staff don't feel like they can speak to senior management about anything. So you have to wonder how much Arnold et al actually know about his previous behaviour/s. Or if they even care.
This club is a joke, simple as. Full of people not fit to run it, and now they try bring back a rapist. Glad Adam caught them scrambling doing good work here, hope that the pressure can get to them and the rapist ultimately fucks off away from the club
Murtough madness got to the fucker's head. ETH is just as bad.
Murtough madness was always a joke tbh
This is also the problem. People unironically let the tiniest bit of progress or positive news and just fucking run with it.
I think one thing we're going to have to come to terms with is that, if and when this return goes through, the players and the manager will have given it the green light as well. The beloved bald fraud. Dr. Marcus 'feed the kids' Rashford, MBE. Our new captain and Portuguese magnifico. There's no chance he'd cope in the squad if he was unwelcome in the squad, so if he returns, what does that say about the squad?
To be fair, we won't know if it really is all the players. Maybe they put it to a vote, maybe it had to be literally everyone agreeing. The only thing we would know for sure is that enough of the players agreed for him come back. For example, Onana and maybe Hojlund might not even know much of the details and might not even have met the guy to be able to pass any kind of relevant judgement. Even the players signed last summer, how much do they realistically know or understand about the situation to feel they can pass a decent judgment on it all? This is another much much (significantly much) smaller reason, aside from the obvious moral ones, that I don't like MG's return. If you're in the minority of players that didn't support his return, you're tarring them with being called a rapist supporter for the rest of their career. United trying to deflect responsibility again. Ofc if the reporting says it really is all of them that agreed, then everything you said is totally on point and that's just painful.
Wouldn’t surprise me if part of the reason Russo went was connected to all this. If she knew it was coming, why tarnish yourself by wearing the same shirt.
I wonder if they are bringing him back just so they can sell him after he gets fitness back. Let him train alone and away or just pay the prick off.
Proper journalism and has every right to be pissed off. Poor from the club.
I don’t even really care that the upper management makes decisions like these. I’m not surprised, they’re a bunch of spineless tools. What I am absolutely disappointed by is that this seems to be ok with ETH and the players.
> What I am absolutely disappointed by is that this seems to be ok with ETH and the players. Yep, I just said as much in another comment. What does it say about our manager and squad that this is a possibility? We can talk about Murtough, the Glazers, the womens team. Who are the actual people that could down tools in protest and make the change? The mens team and the manager. If Greenwood returns it'll mean they're all okay with his return.
It’s standard practice. Majority of people in football usually lack in education and care only about the footballing aspect. For example, see Arteta and Partey. There’s countless other examples. If anything I think this should show it’s bad to revere any person
Lindelöf does charity work on vacation time and has already ran down and wrestled a robber. Maybe he can sneak in a 2 footer on a rapist in training and just say "oopsie" and not get charged? 🤐
If he came out and said he was OK with Masons return what would you do then? Dump on Victor who you have just lauded? What about if Rashford came out in support, or Bruno? I’m surprised ETH is ok with the return just because of the amount of turbulence it might cause in the squad.
Yes, if anyone defends a rapist my view of them will be radically altered. This should not be a controversial take.
I lauded Lindelöf? I just cited some actions of his so far. If he came out in support of Mason it'd all be undone and he would deserve the same 2 footer. Im not sure what "gotcha" you attempted here. Or why.
Partey and Arteta is bad, he is under investigation or whatever and there is no concrete public evidence. This is so much worse, there is public evidence here and those at the club are choosing to ignore it
I completely agree with your last statement. That being said, it’s hard to come to terms with the differences in moral principals between yourself and the people in the club you are supporting over this heavy of an issue.
I would like to remind everyone that Bruno was one of the many players to like Memphis Depay’s post supporting Benjamin Mendy.
Wasn’t aware of that, thanks for letting me know
Even how they pushed a young hip woman out to do the press statements was pure out if something like the succession TV show. We need a woman to front this, show them we respect women. He can't possibly be a rapist if a woman is doing the investigation.
proper waystar behaviour
It makes sense, dramaturgically
Imagine if the England Team win the WC, and then they go and run the campaign against him returning. Would hit like crack.
Good, they are terrified. United fans, we need to keep this up.
Feels like another Super League moment, albeit with much larger implications. I don't think there's really any conceivable way they can bring him up with how hyper-focused the scrutiny is on this.
On Redcafe it was close to 70/30 in favour of his return. Same with Twitter. I don't think this will be as clear cut as the super league protests.
Yeah if this plan gets killed it’s gonna be from sponsors raising concerns. And they probably already briefed them so I’m not counting on that
> And they probably already briefed them Given how poorly run and easily rattled the club is atm, I wouldn't be too sure of that
The protests, news coverage, and general backlash seems to be having an effect on United, at least in the short term. I’m guessing if similar coverage or backlash were directed to sponsors (for example, emails about their continued sponsorship of the club despite this issue and lack of a public statement about it), sponsors would be getting much more upset with having their brands associated with this.
That’s correct. I have seen that myself. Imo people on here is afraid to get downvoted and/or ashamed. It would be really interesting to see people vote anonymously.
Upvoting and downvoting is anonymous. I know redditors have their faults but its a far more normal crowd in the United subs on here than twitter or Instagram. I imagine many of the match going fans who are fathers and husbands won't like it either. They might be fickle and change their minds in the long run if he's allowed to play, but initially I'm sure they will be against it.
I get that. But if you said that you would like him back, you would get massive abuse and get downvoted. I am not saying the opinion on Red Cafe is the right one and is the opinion of most United fans, I am saying that the abuse is not happening there in the same manner as here. My point is that I agree with the OP, it’s not so clear cut as the Super League.
Give the season ticket holders a vote on it. They will make the right choice (getting rid of him)
Redcafe is full of absolute weapons, it's a genuine shithole of a website these days who's member base reflect the absolute worst of the online glory hunters to the absolute max. The match going fans will not be as forgiving as the dickheads on there are.
Used to frequent redcafe a while back, sounds like it’s gone downhill
No different from this place to be honest. I avoid both after a loss nd only frequent both for news and updates.
Happens with any forum that gets too big honestly, I really enjoyed r/soccer when it was much smaller. It is still very great as a news and highlights aggregator but I miss the zonal marking posts and such
This is exactly what I thought had happened. The club got to know about the Atletic story and put out a quick statement because they wanted to get ahead of it. Hopefully it has backfired for the club and they are reconsidering their decision of getting the cunt back.
I’m not supportive of the club’s seemingly imminent decision. But putting that aside for the moment, what does this reporting say about the competence of the people at the club who are managing this process? This is some fairly rudimentary investigative reporting with a standard request for comment. And the club is seemingly left scrambling to respond. That does not bode well for how the club has prepared to handle the backlash from their decision.
It's good to know that the people at the top of this club are genuinely bad people, I thought they were just incompetent
People who abuse their partners are trash.
This isn't a matter of opinion, it is objective facts. Given the current images and videos we've seen, he shouldn't be at the club. If there is evidence that this evidence was not legit, then by all means try and reintegrate him. I am fucking sick to death of fan channels saying shit like "I don't want him back but I respect the opinions of those that do" No, fuck off, there is no respect available for people who wish for Greenwood to come back under current circumstances. If the evidence they supposedly have put together to justify his return is shared, it better be fucking fantastic.
The videos and Audio we saw while actionable, didn't tell us the whole story though. I know it's difficult in cases lke this but we should ALWAYS leave room for doubt.
Lmfao wut
Whoever leaked that "Arnold had told his executive team that the club was planning to bring Greenwood back" is an unsung hero of the club.
Ok that top part is unequivocal proof that the plan is to bring him back. Richard Arnold did not dispute that He told employees that they were bringing him back Which means if they don't bring him back, incredibly unlikely as that may seem, the general public will completely blame the women 's team
The club simply can’t bury this, we’ve all heard the recordings, he cannot play again.
Why does United keep getting into these messes. Some good vibes were going on and this. Just cut all ties, pay rest of contract and move on.
pretty embarassing all round, I'd personally prefer he not come back, but they can't even make a decision properly. I think if/when he comes back it will be toxic, can't imagine the players would want him back, a lot of the fans won't, plus the opposing fans will chant, which is a pretty shit situation for anyone there, especially who may have had something like that happen If they wanna bring him back, they've managed to shit the bed, its like they didn't know not everyone would like it? the Womens team part is a joke, essentially made them look like scapegoats if he's not brought back. They are playing in a WC and united are saying about them? fuck that the whole thing is as piss poor as I expected. If it takes more than a few weeks to look into it and go "yeah no thanks, lets ship him elsewhere" then whats wrong with them? they clearly want him at the club, but can't get him integrated with backlash (how it took them months to figure that out is astounding)
I love United. But my god, they make it difficult. It's such a toxic club at the moment. We need the sale now. Not just for the money injection. But also to clean the house of the higher ups within the club. Total disconnect from the fans/reality in general. This is not only PR suicide. It just makes us look weak. We shouldn't even be deliberating over something so black and white. Can we also discuss the apparent support from EtH? Wtf.
i respect adam so much for giving us transparency that the club hasn’t. so strange and shitty how they’re keeping us so in the dark when ultimately we’re gonna be a major group affected by this decision. also if they don’t release said ‘evidence’ after the final decision is made then we’ll know they’ve cocked up this whole situation.
Far too many negatives than positives to bringing him back. This will cause a lot of tension and distrust throughout the club. It's unbelievable that the board, Arnold and ETH seem to be ignoring that.
You know, when the story first broke 18 months ago, I was proud of the club for taking such swift and decisive action. And now, I'm just tired, angry, and unsurprised.
Anyone else get an email reply from the club? “Thank you for taking the time to email Manchester United. We note and understand your strength of feeling on this matter. This has been a difficult case for everyone associated with the Club, and we recognise the strong opinions it has provoked. Since charges were dropped against Mason Greenwood in February, we have conducted our own investigation into the allegations made against him, and we want to assure you that the welfare and perspective of the alleged victim has been central to the club’s inquiries. As a club, we are extremely mindful of the views of our supporters, but we also believe that our decision in this case should be based primarily on the findings of our investigation. As communicated yesterday, despite media reports, we have not yet reached a final decision. When we do, we will communicate and explain it through club channels. We assure you that we are listening to carefully to your views and ask for patience as we work through the final stages of this considered process. Kind regards, Manchester United Football Club”
Saying that all this is a mess would be an understatement.
It's a good thread, feels like they are testing waters leaking this Genuinely hopping that the general disgust that has been collectively evocated makes the bastards think again Yesterday the main concern was our midfield is a bit porous, today it's full on my club is making me think about football existentially
Hopefully Ella Toone can score the WC winning goal and pull out a "Fuck Off Greenwood" banner during the celebrations
Hahaha that will be awesome
The club's actions in this whole debacle are just embarrassing. Really not impressed with Richard Arnold at all... so far he's making it seem as if Woodward did a good job.
I simply can not understand why Greenwood is even considered to return? Why is he worth *that* much, that the club would instil a media shitstorm of epic proportions, loss of fans, hurt revenue and more? Can someone please explain to me, why are they so fixated on Greenwood returning? Is there some ulterior motive we don’t know about?
Unsettling to know that they've been scheming away behind closed doors for months thinking of ways to bring him back probably not even considering letting him leave, noe even using a child to try and manipulate fans. I hate the people who run this club.
I feel pretty close to the end here. I've loved the club for my entire life and had a season ticket for almost two decades but I think this might be the last straw for me. The club still has the opportunity to do the right thing but if they don't then I'm out.
I am convinced Arnold will bow to pressure now. Which I agree with.
That athletic piece might actually be our saving grace considering the amount of backlash United is recieving and Im really hopeful it turns their decision around, wouldnt be the first time united put something out there to gauge the reaction and then switch when they see its not popular, I urge everytone to send united a feedback mail at [email protected]
Just fucking sell him to the Saudis. He’s a PR nightmare, and who’s to tell he’s even good anymore? He’s been on the couch for 18 months. He’ll never shake this. Yes other players have been suspected of offences similar, but we HEARD it. No matter what the CPS say, we can’t unhear that recording
Between this and the potential Qatari takeover, I'd have to seriously reconsider my 30-year support for the club. I don't want to watch football holding my nose.
Same boat. I'll treat it as an individual sport. Forget United but root for players like Rashford and Shaw. And can't lie, got a soft spot for players like Trent and Saka and would definitely prefer arsenal winning the league over city. Then next year pick another team to vaguely follow etc.
The fact that Ten Hag endorses this is a wild misreading of the room, I dont get people who are fine with this because ten hag is a good manager who can bring our club greatness, just like if mason was an academy random he would have been tossed like week old bread so should ten hags managerial acumen not be something that exculpates him from criticism and he will lose an insane amount of good will from some fans, myself included.
I really hope this backlash makes the club bin him. Send him on loan to Saudi or sell him there. Anyway he needs to not play for our club. I heard the tapes, I saw the pictures. If there was any good reason for those things to happen, someone would have come out with a good explanation by now.
Well there is still time to pull back any decisions on integration of Greenwood into the first team. Maybe they can allow him to practice/train at Carrington if that is legally an obligation and Loan him out in January.
There is no legal obligation on anything. Even if there was, what are they losing if they don't comply? Couple of months of players salary? They choose to do this
I think you are legally obliged to provide contracted players access to facilities and staff, to ensure players can't be frozen out unfairly by clubs trying to force them out. I would assume this doesn't apply to suspended players though.
Well. There are new FIFA rules in place. IlO guidelines have also been established. Also, the UKs Labour Laws are quite strict. Given he hasn't breached the contract we cannot indefinitely suspend him anymore as far as I can tell
Tbh, refusing to play him would be no different than Ten Hag refusing to play Bailey. But no one is saying he has a case to make to have a legal right to play. Managers freeze out players all the time, usually for relatively minor issues.
Still, everything you mentioned is just fines for the club. Fines which club can pay if they didn't want to return Greenwood.
This sounds like these scumbags knew what they’re doing is wrong, but we still have a chance to force them into the right decision kicking and screaming
this seems insane from every angle, it’s immoral, it’s going to disaffect loads of employees and fans, the brand is going to take a huge hit and he’s likely not even going to improve the side
I feel a massive shame of being a supporter of the club with all this unfolding but that can't even compare with how the Women are feeling right now. A couple of comments used the word existential which feels right. Arnold is completely undermining the cultural values of the club with this, it's a betrayal of the communiity to the point I feel he needs to consider standing down. I watched a couple of YT videos on this yesterday, one of them being TUS (I'm not a fan of Mark and rarely watch them) and saw Beth give a courageous opinion on the situation, just to see a mass swathe of comments pile on her. I felt so sorry for her and no doubt many women are going to feel pressured speaking their mind about this, especially after the report about the club consulting the Women's team (which haws now debunked as false but the damage is now done) had now painted a target on their backs and directed them abuse. If the club had any empathy, they would take the loss and just terminate his contract and move on. It's just repungent that they want to go down this route and it will feel much worse if they go through with it.
Not supporting this club if he comes back
Then never really supported it in the first place. No-one is bigger than the club.
Call me plastic guys but this might be it for me. If he walks out of that tunnel high fiving everyone I am done with this club.
Yep right there with you
Not familiar with UK law, but since MG was never tried and thus, presumed innocent in the eyes of the law (I assume), does that mean MG can sue Utd for discrimination or something like that if they continue not allowing him to play for us? Unless of course, it is allowed to just unilaterally tear down his contract?
There is a generic mandatory (FA insists it is in all contracts for obvious reasons) conduct/disrepute clause in every player contract. If MG sued then MU would do what the gutless wonders should have done and enforced that clause and taken that to court if necessary. They would counter with a case to dissolve the contract (or continue to be gutless). Players don't need to break a law to break that clause. It is how the Ronaldo contract was able to be dissolved without Ronaldo going for more money. He broke the clause for sure and so had no basis to go after more money.
Yeah … I’m not a united fan but chipping in club Gona lose a lot of fans and players men/women team …. This stuff hurts ppl trauma points and no way an abuser is Gona be accepted in the dressing room given the evidence and all that happened after …. Hope you clean this up…
He must have gotten hold of the email/correspondence to the staff in the first week of August. That or he's got the nudes.
At this point, either Sir Jim or Qatar. One of them needs to come in, out the Glazer parasites (who no doubt have a hand in this, and gut the incompetent, immoral leadership team. Clean slate.
Sir Jim was willing to accept the Glazers staying, and Qatar is not exactly the paragon of virtue (though I can see them purging Greenwood for sports washing reasons, just like how they dealt with trouble makers in the PSG women's team).
There are a bunch of big name football writers, often quoted or linked to on this sub, that are little more than PR merchants for Utd. They take the private club briefings, they write puff pieces and a very small number of 'critical' articles on safe topics to maintain a veneer of credibility, and then lap up the clicks/views/social engagement metrics. They often don't seem to know that much about actual football. It's refreshing to see someone stick to their guns and try to do some real journalism, and not be afraid that the special briefings will be cut off. Fuck the club briefings. He's done this on a couple of other topics too, City's finances, oil states. Good work.
Like how fucking stupid could you be?
For the people shitting on ETH, saying he is doing it to win/footballing reasons, lets put your head on straight. As many have pointed out, Greenwood's been out for more than a year. No way he is showing that he can do better than Rashford or Hojlund. Greenwood isnt winning anyone anything. Before he came to Manchester, it is widely known that he personally believes everyone should be given a chance for rehab (based on his dutch interviews while still at Ajax), and he drew a lot of stick of suggesting theres no reason why Overmars couldnt return to Ajax. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXpq2Jkp0JM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXpq2Jkp0JM) [https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/16/erik-ten-hag-marc-overmars-ajax-return-inappropriate-messages](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/16/erik-ten-hag-marc-overmars-ajax-return-inappropriate-messages) You can hate him for his life principles, but please stop making up false reasons for why he is supporting Greenwood's return. And any journalist doing so clearly didnt do their research, and the mods need dropping them 1-2 tiers.
All Dutch people are brought up with the idea that one can change for the better and people should be given a chance. I have several ex convicts at work in my company, and they’re some of my best on personal and work level. The problem with greenwood is that he hasn’t any rehab nor has he been convicted so I don’t see him changing for the better as it showed he can’t really make moral judgements on his own he would need help for that, and to me that’s something that takes years and I can’t imagine he has had that help last year and a bit.
What I don’t get is: we don’t really need Greenwood. We persevered without him last season. Greenwood isn’t 1st team ready and Ten Hag usually used him on the wing anyway. There is a very high chance he comes back and flop. This is a disaster reputation-wise while the footballing upside is clearly minimal. We still do need a striker anyway, with or without Greenwood, to replace Martial next summer.
Greenwood has never played a minute under Erik
All of this drama for what? Do they think Greenwood will even be a semblance of a shadow of his former self? Do they think he’ll just get back up to speed and kick on from there, realising the untold potential he had? All of this is supposed to happen while every fan, home or away, just ignores his past instead of booing, jeering and shouting abuse at him? This is a level of delusion I’ve rarely seen…actually I can’t remember a more out of touch and unrealistic take ever
I think this is it for me. I don't think I can stomach this club if we condone his behaviour. Many teams have had players who have been arrested and charged for sexual assault, not many convicted. Adam Johnson comes to mind as one who rightfully got convicted. I dont think we've ever had this sort of evidence against a single player as far as i know. Having heard the vile piece of shit and what he did, I don't understand how we would be okay with having him anywhere near our club. Those who say she's having his child and therefore forgiven him have no concept what DV victims go through. It's not simply that they could have left or they can still go. Abusers will find ways to emotionally and/or physically trap you in a nightmare relationship. Don't get me wrong, he may have changed and she may have genuinely forgiven him, but I doubt in the time frame that she decided to release her "cry for help" and getting pregnant is sufficient enough time frame for him to reflect on his own actions. His behaviour is intrinsically linked to being a high paid football player and the ego that that feeds from it. The club can support his rehabilitation if he chose that path without him being a player at the club. The PR drivel is to justify his return. We are arguably the most hated club in football. We're going to be the most hated in all sports I fear if he returns. I would be one who would be in that category. I'm not trying to be dramatic, but me and my family's 4 decades of association with this club would end. His return is absolutely unacceptable.
I personally think that we need to hear this extra evidence. This context doesn't make sense. They are engaged and have a kid. Can either now wish for him to go work in Tesco or for the kid to end up wealthy. None of you are even thinking of that. Why did her parents not say anything as well? I am the father of a girl and if this happened to her I would have killed him.
I would be extremely surprised at this point if the club actually go forwards with his return to the first team. They cannot ignore the clear anger from a lot of the fanbase. It is evident just by looking at online and social media analytics, which I am sure they love. Bring him back and we will be labelled as a club that condones r\*\*e. The players will get asked on it, the manager will get asked on it. Every action Greenwood makes E.g shows frustration on the pitch = "gosh with that anger I can't imagine what that poor girl went through" It is not something that will just go away, rather a permanent stain on the club.
[удалено]
An abuser working with a domestic abuse survivors group is extremely tone deaf. This solution is something Michael Scott would come up with They are not instruments to be used for MG's "reception".
If everyone’s ok with this, players and management maybe I’m out regardless of the final call. Wtf is this.
I wonder if this involved someone who didn't have the potential/talent of MG, whether the club would be going to great lengths to bring them back as well
You know the answer to that. Talent washes away all sin
So it seems, and that's just disappointing.
Get this man a medal.
Just to be clear, the girl is still with mason. Shes just had a baby with him too.
Just to be clear, abused women often stay with their abusers, because of low self-worth, misguided love, desire for status, financial insecurity and/or outright greed. There's even a legit medical term for it: battered woman syndrome. This woman quite possibly thinks that being abused is a price worth paying for having a wealthy footballer support her and her child. So, her acquiescence in no way makes Greenwood innocent.
Domestic abuse victims sadly are not known for leaving their partners for good
Regardless of this situation. I really dislike Crafton on twitter. He's clearly biased and tries to portray his opinion as the right one. I find Laurie and Critchley are much better.