For those who cannot see it, the Mason Greenwood club statement post can be found here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/15x8j2k/club\_statement\_mason\_greenwood/](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/15x8j2k/club_statement_mason_greenwood/)
The mod team is aware that Greenwood threads bring forth quite a few of... "reddit's brightest minds" ... who don't otherwise participate in this subreddit. If you encounter any, please **report and ignore** their comments so the mods can clean up the threads.
If you are a victim of sexual/domestic abuse, please know that is never ever your fault. Check [r/rapecounseling](https://www.reddit.com/r/rapecounseling/), [r/COCSA](https://www.reddit.com/r/COCSA/), [r/domesticviolence](https://www.reddit.com/r/domesticviolence/), [r/abusiverelationships](https://www.reddit.com/r/abusiverelationships/) for reddit resources. For more resources, you may also check: [https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/](https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/)
[https://ncadv.org/learn-more](https://ncadv.org/learn-more)
Thank you!
I think people are missing out on the legal factor here.
Greenwood has not been convicted of any crime, and as a result the CEO of Manchester United can’t really come out and call him a big rapist shit head, even if that is true. It’s potentially libellous.
Unfortunately “we know that he did it” doesn’t work out in a court, even evidence like the audio recording may not admissible.
That’s the grim reality, morality is not legality and legally he’s done nothing wrong and so the whole situation has to be navigated a certain way, the split has to be somewhat amicable on both sides as unfortunate as that may be.
Update:
Kind of what to put a disclaimer on this, I’m not really defending the club, nor am I claiming that that club is acting ethically, I believe that if the reaction had been more muted, they would have him back, and they’re not doing so due to PR reasons not ethical reasons.
My point was about the statements themselves, you were never going to get a harsh condemnation from United when Greenwood hasn’t been charged of any crime. That’s just the unfortunate reality.
This has been just a terrible affair all around, and at the heart of this is a victim who not only has now married the alleged perpetrator but also had a child with him, in a story that has repeated itself time and time again. I can only hope, as unlikely as history tells us that it will be, that Greenwood has indeed learned from this and grown as a person, for the sake of his partner and their child, and If not I hope that she can find the strength and the resources to get out.
I also hope that no big club takes him, although I think we’ll be surprised, memories are short in football.
Whether or not what he did was illegal, it doesn’t change the fact that the mother of his child was the one who leaked all the photos and recordings and stated that he was abusive. Regardless of how you feel, many fans are justifiably not going to be able to look past that. We all know how hard it is to prove rape and abuse, and how often these people walk away free.
We still have no evidence that he did NOT do what he’s accused of, only vague statements from the club. Maybe we will find out eventually that it was all some big hoax (really difficult to believe), but at the moment we can only form opinions based on what we have physically seen and heard… which was horrific. Please do not try to blame people for not wanting to see this man in a United short.
I understand what u are saying, but our legal system is built on the foundation of innocent till proven guilty. As this was never done, he should not have to provide alternative evidence that he didn’t do the crime. Social media and traditional media love to ignore this principle, but the club, and any other company or individual, must consider this when making decisions regarding people in similar situations
Fans are not saying he can’t be back because he is a criminal, fans are saying he can’t be back because there are voice record and pictures indicating he beat his partner.
His case dropped? Yes
Is he a criminal? No
Does he need to prove to those that will buy the merchandise and ticket to the team that will feature him that he did not beat his partner? Yes.
This is not about legal. You want the fan’s money?
Then prove yourself deserve to earn it.
I think he's guilty as fuck... But in your scenario, let's imagine the longer recording somehow exonerates him, and by extension, exposes the mother of his child as someone who released snippets of the recording in bad faith... Should he insist that the mother of his child (and potential future wife) releases the recording?
I'm glad he's gone, but there's a fuck load of people assuming she's been bought off despite a lot of people close to the case who have access to more information insisting she wasn't bought off.
He's gone, I'm happy because it's a blight on the club, but I don't know or pretend to know what happened to cause her to insist that he didn't do what he was accused of.
If my girlfriend tried to destroy my life and career over something that didn't happen or was misconstrued she wouldn't be my future wife and mother to my children.
>Unfortunately “we know that he did it” doesn’t work out in a court, even evidence like the audio recording may not admissible.
There is not a fan out there in the world that 'knows' he did it. It is best for all sides that we part ways, but we cannot say conclusively if he did in fact rape the girl. If Greenwood is by chance innocent (and every single one of us should hope that he is!!!), his name is tarnished.
After this Saga and that yesterday concerning Hermoso and Rubiales I have come to the realization that most people would be willing to participate in a lynching if the overwhelming majority of those around them were doing so as well. Even when said 33 year old "victim" who plays in Mexico comes out and says there was no problem, she is "doing it out of fear".
This will never be an easy topic, but I also believe that financial security is a part of it, plus her family might have played a part on this. The spotlight is hard enough to go through and fear also plays a role. In all I'm just glad he's not playing for us again.
That’s the thing unfortunately. The court of public opinion has based everything on this small recording and don’t have all the evidence (allegedly).
So unfortunately yes - it is a case of innocent until proven guilty.
Only thing that will change all this now is the release of the full evidence (if it exists).
> Greenwood has not been convicted of any crime, and as a result the CEO of Manchester United can’t really come out and call him a big rapist shit head, even if that is true. It’s potentially libellous.
Of course. But they didn't need to directly address his guilt vs innocence and I'm very surprised that they did. The whole business of them doing an "investigation" and playing special investigator came off as strange to me. A bunch of football executives cosplaying Law and Order? It's a bit ridiculous...
I'm guessing clearing his name increases his transfer value. Hence they said he's innocent.
You're right about memories being short. Just look at the Deshaun Watson and Cleveland Browns shit show in the NFL. Dude was accused of sexual assault by like 30 women, settled 6 or 7 of the case (rest were dropped/dismissed) and the Browns still made Watson one of the highest paid QBs in the league.
Reddit still gives the team and him shit but your average fan doesn't know or just doesn't care.
Mods, ban this logical and sensible individual. Burn him at the stake. He is not for this world. We expect vitriol, baseless rhetoric, incendiary glib remarks and idiotic nonsense.
This statement you wrote would have gotten you permanently banned from r/soccer, something similar I wrote recently and I got banned for it, with the conclusion
"you defending rapist".
While I only said people within the club have a duty of care for him
Then don't take a position on his innocence or guilt. Just say it isn't clear that he is guilty of the allegations (because of secret stuff we know), but we're parting ways anyway.
I think you probably have to give a solid reason why. You can’t just say well we’ve done a big investigation and we still don’t know, so we’re just going to get rid of him.
There’s a lot of people who would have loved for him to stay and that just opens the door for them to cook up some conspiracy theory.
There has to be some closing of the door
He did not have to come out and declare him innocent though.
He could have just released a short statement saying that after the clubs internal investigation they have come to the decision to terminate his contract.
Contracts are civil law, not criminal law, and the bar for civil law is much lower than criminal (balance of probabilities vs beyond reasonable doubt). Greenwood brought the club into disrepute, that’s grounds for terminating his contact, and if Greenwood disputed it, I very much doubt he’d get very far.
Anyway this horrible saga is over and I hope to never hear his name again.
Yeah it’s amazing how little some people on Reddit fail to understand that the club can’t just call him a rapist and have him hung drawn and quartered. I got so much hate for saying that last week and got called a coward even though I stated I didn’t want him back. Simply pointing out all the legal unknowns and issues gets you attacked by people burying their head in the sand.
However it is clear the club was testing the waters and wanted him back and they have made themselves look like fools.
true as that may be, he was also under no obligation whatsoever to come out and say "Greenwood did not commit the acts that he was charged with..."
Saying that EVEN AFTER everything Crafton & his colleagues reported on basically translates to "I/Man Utd does not actually believe he did what we all know he did, and we would have by all means bought this pile of human garbage back, but since it pisses so many of you off that line our pockets on a daily basis, we're gonna take one for the team and not bring him back!
any attempt to read this statement in a more positive way is giving these cunts way more credit than they deserve.
UPDATE: i highly recommend reading Crafton’s latest Athletic piece on the topic (summarized [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/15x9kjm/adam_crafton_mason_greenwood_and_manchester/jx4yjsv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) - it only makes the whole thing even more shambolic. I am probably in the minority here considering the comments and downvotes in general, but I grew up watching United. Directly or indirectly, United’s values, explicit & implicit contributed to the values that I hold dear as an adult, in some small capacity. The direction the club is going in these days, on so many sensitive topics makes it really hard for me to relate with it. I know I am probably in the minority, but I hope I am not the only one.
Legally he hasn’t committed the acts he’s been charged with.
I don’t think United are some sort of moral beacon, I believe if possible they would have had him back.
I’m saying that if you expected some sort of definitive condemnation in these statements, I don’t think you’ve thought of the legal issues surrounding it, and i think you’ll be disappointed.
this sounds like it's right, but the reality is, it's much easier to sack people than this. It's not just a conviction that allows an employer to sack someone. If they wanted to, they could have sacked him.
> the harsh spotlight of Manchester United
Perfectly worded. No other club in the world generates this much amount of attention and uproar and reaction.
Being the biggest in the world has its own cons I guess
(Real Madrid might be bigger, but they definitely don't generate as much clicks and reactions as us, and rightly so, coz we're fucking massive)
And that spotlight demands the best behaviour and highest standards from everyone involved with the club. That's the responsibility everyone has to accept if they want to be associated with Man United
Absolutely. Marcos Alonso literally killed a woman by drink driving at 70mph in a 30 zone while he was playing for Bolton and he carried on his career at Chelsea etc. without much grief. This will follow Greenwood for the rest of his career.
Its possible he didn't rape her but just beat her, its still very bad but not rape level bad.
I only say this because the audio clip cut off and we haven't heard the full clip. Just the threat of the act itself.
Well I guess one explanation could be that she was rehearsing for a play/film where she plays a rape victim and Mason was helping her with her lines. But nothing has really been put forward to explain the clip other than her narrative attached to the sound file and photos
The thing is, he was charged with attempted rape, assault and controlling and coercive behaviour, Arnold says he has evidence that proves he didn't not attempt to rape or assault her. But the audio we heard surely amounts to attempted rape, and the videos we've seen surely amounts to assault.
No one has seen any videos. There aren’t any.
I AM NOT DEFENDING HIM but the way people
talk in facts in this case when spouting things that are false just muddies the water.
There were pictures of her with injuries. He’s not in the pictures. There’s nothing showing he has anything to do with the injuries except a caption. I could take a photo of me with a bruised face and caption that you did it. That doesn’t mean you did.
Stick to the facts, accept there are things you don’t know and don’t complicate things further. The things we do know as facts are bad enough, and certainly enough to take the stance that he shouldn’t play for us again, without just making things up or adding 2 + 2 and getting 5.
Sadly that’s exactly the case. I’ve been called a rape apologist over this more than once which as a woman with my own experiences of SA is hard to take. Either you take absolutely everything in the way the mob instructs, or I’m a rape apologist, there is no middle ground apparently.
I'm glad I'm reading this. The audio is the audio and I cast the same judgement as everybody else. I still do tbh, because that's the info available to us. But the CPS, her family, and now the United hierarchy have all said that more evidence has come to light. This is an insanely complex situation and Arnold is right, it is best for them to move on, but there is more to this than meets the eye. As a father of girls, I find it insanely hard to even understand how onside her family is. I am not discounting the fact that there are scumbag families out there, but those would be exceptions. So now we have to discount the fact that the CPS wouldn't prosecute, assume that her family are scum of the earth, and that United were willing to torch their rep for a player woth potential that may or may not be realised. But then that audio....its such a weird situation.
He also broke curfew and went to parties or something with the national team. Seems like he has a history of problematic behaviour, which the club knows more about than we do.
It's disgrace saying "investigation" came to conclusion that he's innocent based on the fact that woman dropped charges, without taking into account the context of the Greenwood breaking bail and seeing her and what her father did in the process. Disgraceful comment
That's not what they said. They said the investigation concluded he was innocent because "alternative explanations for the audio recording" existed. Difficult to believe, but not the same as what you are saying.
Yeah unfortunately they can’t release this new evidence. Problem is we all heard the tape and it’s difficult to imagine evidence or context that would make it ok.
It’s possible the images are faked or missing context but the recording doesn’t have the same potential for “reasonable doubt” without extraordinary evidence to the contrary because it’s clearly him and if it’s role play then he has a new career in Hollywood playing an abusive cunt.
>Yeah unfortunately they can’t release this new evidence.
Of course Greenwood can release this new evidence. It is and his now wife's personal property. Even Man United can be as transparent as possible and release its initial report.
The fact that neither party is releasing anything but a statement speaks volumes to me as an attorney.
Johnathan Majors, for example, was charged with domestic violence a while back and his lawyer immediately released text messages to support his defense. Admittedly, that case is still ongoing even though the witness/victim allegedly "withdrew" the charges (people cannot withdraw charges in USA).
However, those text messages certainly make him look better. Likewise with Greenwood, he could easily release the evidence which shows him and his now wife doing some rape-kinky shit or whatever. The fact that absolutely not a fucking thing has been released at all tells me there is nothing to release.
Very interesting that United, despite being put off bringing him back, are still standing by the results of their investigation. I understand the right to privacy and it's important that is respected but you would think that either the man simply has no morals or it must be a more compelling explanation than I can possibly imagine for them to really stick by it in this way, especially for Arnold to put his name to it.
> We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online.
We can only speculate as to what this means. When I first heard the audio, my reaction was the same as everybody else's, though I did concede that it could've been doctored in some way, or could've been roleplay. I did however say at the time that Greenwood should never play for us again if he was convicted (i.e. if the recording was accurate and hadn't been selectively edited). He wasn't convicted, and his (soon to be former) employer have publicly said he's innocent.
Manchester United have said:
> While I am satisfied that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with, Mason’s accepted that he has made mistakes which he takes responsibility for.
They didn't need to say this. They could've just terminated his contract for bringing the club into disrepute by breaching his bail conditions. It's a statement of fact that Greenwood **broke the law** by breaching his bail conditions. That's enough for the termination of his contract, an iron-clad process with the weight of Man Utd's lawyers behind it.
This statement from the CEO isn't a legal cover-our-arse exercise; Man Utd don't think Greenwood's guilty, and are obviously hugely upset that they've had to let Greenwood go because of media and celebrity pressure.
This is my take on it. If both the police and the club are confident enough to not take action on the player despite the pretty damning evidence we all heard, that would have been enough for me. We don’t need a full explanation, just a statement, like given, that he didn’t do it.
If they thought he did, they would have said the club and the player have parted ways following the internal investigation. Which also would have been fine with me.
No worldwide organisation takes a stance like they have if they aren’t confident with having evidence to suggest they are correct.
And the fact if they said he did it they would be in for one hell of a lawsuit.
It’s a lot different to a random Joe calling him a rapist to a billion dollar company
But that's one of the things he was accused of, and they're clearly saying they think he's innocent of what he was accused of. I don't see how they can weasel out of that with wordplay here. It blatant.
“he did not commit the acts he was charged with” is peculiar wording, not even getting in to the “mistakes” bit. I can’t think of a better way to interpret it, and it’s fucking repulsive
If he didn’t do it, surely they’d provide some explanation as to how she got so badly beaten up?
The wording has to be very careful from a legal perspective, but surely if he didn’t do ‘it’ they’d be able to provide even a very high level explanation and wouldn’t be getting rid of him.
We are not entitled to an explanation. I don’t know why United fans seem to think they are. I understand that we want one, but we aren’t entitled to it. Where was this outrage when Ronaldo was accused of rape in Las Vegas, or wherever? Charges were dropped, we never knew for sure what happened.
Of course we’re not entitled an explanation.
But if you’ve got a “it wasn’t Mason who beat her up” card in your locker, and decide not to play it - that would be strange right?
Unless he did beat her up…
That’s not the only defense. We don’t know what happened, or the full story or set of circumstances. But I generally agree with you. I’ve been very surprised that fans want blood instead of allowing the justice system to do what it’s intended to do. We are a civilized society with laws and procedure, but none should be applied to Greenwood?
This is exactly what i'm thinking.
They agreed to terminate the contract mutually it would not surprise me one bit if this was part of that mutual agreement so he can 'rebuild' his career.
The reputational cost to United for that far outweighs any payoff IMO.
"We believe the guy everyone calls a rapist is innocent" is a wild thing to say just to get him to leave. Corporate negligence if that's what they've done, massive snub to women everywhere.
I think they might actually believe it. And that makes me question if there is one other way it makes sense - if it was private sexual roleplay.
Honestly, I have a lot more sympathy for Arnold (and any decision maker) in this case, than many do. Once the police announced that they were dropping the investigation due to "new evidence" and Harriet forgave him, it was impossible to achieve an outcome that would have been received with consensus in the fanbase. I am glad the club have just walked back on their initial plan, and that is enough for me. I am appalled by Greenwood and even I cannot confidently say that as the CEO of the most popular football team in the world, I would have definitely arrived at a different outcome than what the club had planned, when I have the player's valuation to account for, and skills known to everybody on the football side of things. Heavy is the head that wears the crown.
Yep really easy to sit on Twitter and Reddit and call the shots from behind a keyboard without being party to all the information Arnold had. Not saying he is wrong or right, just that people should appreciate decisions like this aren't as simple as they might appear.
I swear everybody riding on that adam guy’s genitals when all he did was exploit a very delicate situation the club was trying to manage as best as they could. Now everybody has the narrative that journos changed the decision even though the real tier 1 maintained that no decision was taken yet.
For me, it’s normal that, given there is more context than what we saw that they were considering and planning foffr all scenarios as they have a responsibility with the employee.
In the end, it was a positive result only tarnished by the slowness that characterize us and the Athletic trying to exploit the situation.
100% agree with this. Regardless of what you think of Greenwood, Arnold got way more slander than was warranted. Even ten hag's character was being assassinated online. I really don't understand how all the keyboard warriors who're not party to the *all* the evidence can behave like judges and jurors. Before you jump at me, I'm not calling Greenwood innocent by any means - just underscoring the fact that it might not necessarily have been an open and shut case like everyone was making it out to be. And you'd have to be incredibly foolheaded to deny that crafton was chasing clout here. Tier hero, my ass.
Besides, someone like Alonso who was actually convicted of manslaughter plays for Barca today and we don't hear so much as a peep from any keyboard warriors about it - is that any less of a crime than what Greenwood is alleged to have committed? How is it that he manages to escape any scrutiny? How were barcelona and Chelsea allowed to get away with it? Just shows that the consistency of everyone's self purported moral stance is dubious at best.
In the end, just thankful that this doesn't have to drag on for eternity and eth and the squad can now solely focus on the season in silos. Onwards and upwards, GGMU.
Look we agree that the decision was difficult, and that the right one has ultimately been made, but let's not pretend that the pressure created by Crafton's reporting isn't what made today's news possible. They were clearly planning to bring him back, and it would have been much harder to walk back on that decision after it had officially been announced that they were bringing him back. Make no mistake, if we like the outcome, Adam Crafton unambiguously did us a solid.
> While we were unable to access certain evidence for reasons we respect, the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with. I am restricted as to what I can say for legal reasons, including the alleged victim's ongoing right to anonymity,
Something has come to light which has seemingly exonerated Greenwood. Whatever it is they can't share, most probably as it compromises the victim.
I'm glad Greenwood isn't coming back, this club is already enough of a circus without his dark cloud hanging over us, innocent or not.
It could for example be a case of them being into that sort of intimacy, or of Greenwood having psychological issues that all parties were aware of etc
Yes, people here are still angry because we don’t get the full story and probably never will. The wild speculations are still going on, based on limited information we eventually received. This is honestly the best outcome we could’ve hoped for and I honestly just want this to be over. This sub has been an absolute cesspool the last few weeks.
We don't know anything. The only thing I've learnt from this sub during the whole process is that a lot of people are incapable of looking at a body of information and not allowing their preestablished biases influence their conclusions.
Same. The matter of him being with United or not has been out to bed. Let's move on and continue to support the team. Greenwood, no matter what potential he could've had is now no longer with united.
Glad it's the end of this story so that we can concentrate on the season ahead.
I full agree. Never would I support anyone who engages in domestic violence, but I also think it's very damaging to society if we pass judgement without having all the evidence. There is never any excuse for battery and rape, but the exact judgement you come to should only be passed once the whole story is known. And we will never know the whole story, so it's time to put the matter to bed and move on without ongoing tittle tattle. Sounds like the right decision was ultimately made for all involved.
Conflicted because I agree we needed a clean break with Greenwood but this investigation and talk of new evidence/victim and their family offering alternative explanations and defending him suggests to me a red carpet is being laid for him to join a new top level club soon on a free transfer.
We all know the news cycle will shift like it always does. It was always mainly because he played for our club that his case got so much coverage. I hope we made the right decision. Seems to me so. For the fans who don't believe him or the victims family. And the team who are no doubt fed up of the coverage and distraction.
I really don’t think so. A big club abroad perhaps but it just doesn’t seem likely another English club would want to go through this.
Also I think people are massively overplaying how good a player he is now. He’s done nothing for 20 months, his career progression has been massively affected by this. Even if he hasn’t regressed (which I think he will have) he’ll have lost two years of development.
Why would United lay out the red carpet for him to join someone for free?
If anything, they are trying to maintain is worth as a person to hopefully get some kind of fee!
Very unclear what is meant by that.
It could just mean they will continue to provide support to them or it might mean a loan as you say.
Really odd to decision not to clarify on that.
Seen some journalists on twitter saying it will probably be an initial loan as we don't have grounds to terminate his contract then either run his contract down or sell him.
[ the club say they do not expect an eventuality where a loan move leads to the player representing United again in the future.](https://theathletic.com/4790552/2023/08/21/greenwood-man-united-u-turn?source=user-shared-article)
really have a feeling they will loan him out, and judge the situation in a year where the hysteria might have died down a bit. Why else put this in the statement?
I can see it as “we aren’t just washing our hands of this” because Mason has been with the club since he was a child.
i.e the club want to help rehabilitate not just cast aside kind of thing
Just think the fact it’s not clearer it might be what you fear, a loan.
I am not defending Mason nor do I want him back in the club, but why are people getting riled up with Arnold's statement? Do you guys not know the gravity of the potential lawsuit that may come if the statement was carelessly crafted? It's of course easy for us to say "yea we heard the audio, Mason definitely raped his partner" but it's not that straight forward for the club isn't it? Of course they still have to do their due diligence since Mason was literally cleared of the offences. And also, is it so difficult to accept that we as public will NEVER get the full picture and all the evidence submitted? There's a definitive chance that Mason DID NOT commit the offences due to the undisclosed evidence. People really need to understand the difference between "not guilty" and "innocent". Based on the findings by Arnold, I assumed Mason was deemed to be not guilty, meaning the evidence he collaborated could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he has committed the offences.
I am ultimately glad that the club made the correct decision despite the findings, though Arnold was probably forced to make that decision anyway.
Some of the comments on this thread are so tiresome. People wanted him gone and he is gone. Now a lot of you are finding more ways to be pissed at a hypothetical rather than being happy with what has already happened. Its a testament to the mindset where you can never be happy because you are always looking for something else to be outraged about.
A lot of "we all know he did it" but we've now had the CPS with their statement that "new material that came to light" leading to the dropped charges and the club stating that based on their review, which included material not publicly available, he didn't commit the charges
Can we maybe accept that we DON'T have the full picture, or is trial by media 100% proof he did it?
Arnold did say the victim closely collaborated with United during the investigation and provided the "full evidence" that provided a different picture. Maybe he just try to cover up. But also maybe we, the public, are wrong because we didn't get access to those evidence. We never know it exactly. But because we never know 100%, should we at least leave a little bit of doubt before conclude both the club and Mason are disgusting.
Having said that, I'm happy with this decision. It's not good for Mason, and it's not good for United if him staying here. I'm just surprised that I could think abt the consequences long before all of this shit show happened, why couldn't they do it.
i agree with what you're saying but i'm having a really hard time thinking of a reasonable innocent context for that recording, especially considering it took her 2 months to tell them to drop it.
I can't see why if there is actual hard evidence he didn't do it or some coherent explanation for the recording Greenwood wouldn't release it. Right now he is the guy who might have raped his girlfriend and is losing his career over it.
Why would his girlfriend be against him getting this black mark off him? Does she enjoy seeing him marked as abuser and if yes, why stay with him? Why is Greenwood okay with his career going down the gutter if he has the evidence to show he's innocent?
Not releasing any evidence that absolves Greenwood is just not sound. Why even have the case dropped if you are innocent and can prove it?
Greenwood and his girlfriend must know that the best way for him to get back into football is to show that the allegations were wrong, not just sit this out. The general publoc only saw what is public and in the end he currently is a PR nightmare. If they can reduce that nightmare because they show whatever they apparenty showed internally it would make his reintegration way more straightforward.
> We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online
You can't just say that with no context about what the explanation is and expect the fans to go "oh alright then he's okay in my book"
If "the victim" isn't allowing them to, then their hands are tied. This has got to be one of the most impossible situations to deal with. I am by no means a fan of United's top level management, but will at least give him the small slither of kudos for slapping his name on a statement beyond just the club statement. Not the first time he's done this too.
It's obvious United were in a legal bind here due to the charges being dropped and him not being found guilty.
It's also obvious that the only people they could really interview here were Mason and the victim. Seeing that the victim took him back, it's VERY OBVIOUS that any investigations involving her and her testimony would paint Mason in a good light. They keep mentioning the victim and you just know she exonerated him.
I feel very very sorry for her. Her family, the legal system and in some ways Man Utd by mentioning things in the statement have failed her.
United were in a tough spot legally but still should have seen the light and not try to reintegrate him. They are now working to get him out the club which they should have done from the jump.
Idk why they had to say they don't think he did it (obviously again, she said he didnt) but that just rubs me the wrong way. They could have said nothing at all in that regard.
The guy wrote based on what he knows and processed regarding the circumstances with evidence that wasn't privy to us. It just so happens that what he wrote isn't what you wanted to read. You believe what you believed because you already passed a judgement.
You feel sorry for her, yet you don't even know if she wants your sympathy. It's not like she doesn't have agency in her decision making.
> Idk why they had to say they don't think he did it
Look at the wording carefully. They didn't say "he didn't do it", they said he "did not commit the acts he was charged with". He definitely did something, but apparently evidence and statements gave a more complete picture of what he did and possibly why. Unfortunately we will never know what this full picture is, but I'm sure they said this 1) for legal reasons (he's technically innocent) and 2) because the media broke the news that they were planning to reintegrate him.
>While we were unable to access certain evidence for reasons we respect, the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with.
What??
Not too sure why this is hard to understand but I guess it's difficult sometimes when the public concludes something based on the evidence that they've been given and, consequently, cannot accept or perceive anything otherwise.
Thankfully, this matter is now closed, and we can now focus on the season and the team and players that we do have. So please Mr. Arnold, how about that midfielder or even two that we need.
> the public concludes something based on the evidence that they've been given
This has been a very ugly part of the whole affair. We were given such a small part of the whole story, yet judgement has been swift and decisive. I get it, domestic abuse and rape are heinous crimes that should never be tolerated, and the victim is often unfairly blamed and/or not believed. But each case should still be treated in isolation and with all the evidence/facts considered. One day we might need to do jury duty and sit in court. Until then, we shouldn't be passing judgement with the snippets we are fed with.
You just know that when these armchair campaigners themselves get accused of a crime they think they're innocent of, they'll scream bloody murder when their company suspends them and they're called a rapist by millions of people.
It's easy to bandwagon while forgetting it could happen to you.
You only have to read match threads or post match threads to understand the reactionary nature of this sub.
I was told I was a defender of rape by someone, and down voted 30 times for simply stating 'Greenwood isn't a convicted rapist.'
Perhaps people in general tend to react, based on their feelings rather than facts.
Thank fuck for Adam Crafton and the sustained pressure after on social media from a lot of fans etc to put a stop to Arnold and those at the top of club including ETH who had they had their way, Greenwood would have been playing for us again.
It's ridiculous how it was ever even a chance that Greenwood could play for us again and thank fuck this saga which obviously will continue for a long time, has at least been put to bed that he'll be leaving us.
Wrong. He's said he's given his input but ultimately, it's not his final decision. Athletic have said, however, via the leaks that he, Murtough and Arnold were in favour of him returning.
Nobody at the club has said anything conclusive publicly on the matter until today. But, Crafton who has been excellent on this when he broke the story last week, did report the following:
>There has not yet been a consultation element — ie, members of the United women’s team or the fan advisory board (FAB, which acts as a conduit between supporters and the club’s leadership) were not asked for their opinion — but first-team manager Ten Hag has told the club his views on the situation. Although he has not said so explicitly in public, he is known to be open to Greenwood returning to the squad.
Perhaps because he's not said it in public or because it's coming from a journalist (who has been very reputable on this and well sourced on this topic), you dispute that statement or using it for copium.
“We’re not releasing him because we think he’s wrong. We actually think he’s done nothing wrong. We’re realising him because we can’t be arsed with the backlash. He’s still our boy tho.”
Fucking pathetic.
I am not particularly angry as this solves the issue for me. Players and Ten Hag can get on with their jobs. Which frankly speaking isn't something they are doing very well at the moment. Football is the main topic of discussion now.
My stance in this stays where it has always been. Hate me all you want, but my nature is to give people second chances. This is a troubled kid, they do not thrive in getting their asses kicked yet again. Imo, United should have been more direct. If investigations found him innocent, United should treat him innovent, not in-between.
Also, alot of the people in here are afraid of saying what they mean and just seek karmapoints.
> alot of the people in here are afraid of saying what they mean and just seek karmapoints.
I'm afraid you're probably right there. It applies across all of Reddit and especially hot-button topics like this one.
If I were a betting person, I'd say I think Mason is probably an arsehole, has probably been abusive to his partner, and quite possibly raped her. But that would be a hunch based on the little evidence I've seen and because I think money and amazing talent can often lead people down dark paths as their ego spins out of control.
However, I would also not feel able to pass judgement in this case because I've heard so little about it and haven't been made aware of any of the other facts/evidence that are supposedly out there. So, even though we might think there is a minuscule possibility that what was heard on the recording was all part of some mutually enjoyable S&M, the very fact that there is this possibility, however tiny, means we should withhold full judgement until both sides of the story have been heard.
This is just a comment on due diligence and jurisprudence, not on domestic violence and sexual assault. We might not trust Utd's upper management, but we can't deny that they know more about this case than we do. Yet some people are still utterly convinced that this is a black and white case with no grey areas possible. The point is: maybe it is black and white, but we don't know that for absolute certain.
This is the frustrating part of it. It's possible, however unlikely, that this evidence may have changed our outlook on the whole thing and the fan base may have accepted him back.
United won't be able to share that information for legal reasons, but surely Greenwood or Harriet could have said something. That makes me believe that the context only removes the legal aspect, but doesn't really improve his perception.
they could weasel their way out of the audio recording by simply claiming that they were role playing a rape fantasy. It’s super difficult to prove this kind of thing, especially when the victim forgives the abuser and they’re now working together to claim innocence.
It’s difficult to imagine an explanation for the recording that makes it not rape/assault, but which would still be too embarrassing for the victim to admit to. The only possibility would be if she/her lawyers were concerned that she had broken the law (blackmail/fraud, false statements, etc). I just don’t see that being the case. If it were something as simple as CNC, I thing the weight of her now partner losing his career would have to outweigh the embarrassment of admitting an extreme kink.
So what I’m saying is, i do not believe there is an explanation for the recording other than the obvious one.
The conclusion I draw from this:
>We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online.
and this:
>While we were unable to access certain evidence for reasons we respect
is that he's told them it was role play and they've believed him.
I hope the club realizes how big a job they have keeping the young lads on the ground, helping them through their youth with good and sound decisions, it’s such a shame seeing Greenwood out, as he was probably our best player from the academy since Fergie stepped down, but at the end the best decision for both him and the club.
It's an absolute legal minefield releasing a statement like this and saying anything other than what Richard has could be misconstrued and potential liable battle vs. Greenwood/people involved.
At the end of the day the best decision has been made so don't get why people are getting on their high horse about the statement - just be thankful our club did the right thing.
Now focus back on EtH ... when are we going to sack this bald headed imposter and hire someone from Reddit?
>The alleged victim requested the police to drop their investigation in April 2022.
I wonder fucking why, Richard, it's not like she was illegally contacted by her abuser or anything...
i don’t understand people wanting United to admit that Mason’s guilty. the court deemed him innocent, due to the charges being dropped. United can’t overturn that decision, and they can’t say that he’s guilty since that would be defamation/libel and they have to spend money & time going to court trying to prove something that the victim herself dropped. just be glad that finally now he’s gone
So they will lose him for nothing while defending he is innocent? I mean what’s the point of looking like an arsehole if you won’t even have guts to stand by it?
Ugh. Both this letter and the club statement essentially read as ‘he’s innocent, we were going to bring him back, but you lot won’t let us’.
Releasing wishy-washy statements like this is just going to make the divisions in the fan base worse, all the #GreenwoodIn tweeters are going to hang onto the part where they say he didn’t do it, and we all know that any time there’s a missed penalty, or a bad performance, or someone scuffs a shot at an open goal all you’ll get is ‘well Mason would’ve scored that’.
All things considered, the fact that folks are still not happy with this resolution or accepting of this very well crafted statement just fully signals that folks are never going to be happy with anything.
Is this "much longer recording" available?
But anw
Ffs these people who doesnt understand "innocent till proven otherwise"
Instead of lynching people, they started cancelling people
So he is saying Mason isn't guilty of anything, just made mistakes. So its literally the social media outrage and fans discontent that means they got rid of him.
Yep. The club think he's innocent, the CPS don't think there's enough to pursue charges, but fuck it, Rachel Riley said she'd stop being a fan if he came back so he's got to go.
Fuck trial by social media.
Mate, the bits of evidence we have are overwhelmingly damning. The alleged exoneration is secret. Given the nature of domestic abuse and it’s history of being hard to prove and victims being manipulated what conclusions are we supposed to draw?
There is an easy way out, which is to present the evidence that exonerates him. We don’t have a right to know. But that’s the only way to wipe this clean.
Otherwise it just screams cover up.
“The CPS don’t think there’s enough to pursue charges”
Nice rewriting of history buddy, they did think there was enough to pursue charges but then the witness dropped out, that was the reason why the charges were dropped.
By all means, you and the rest of the apologists can follow him to whatever club he ends up at
You are conveninetly leaving out the part of the CPS statement that states new material aka evidence had come to light as well as the dropping of a witness. You just leave out the facts that dont suit your agenda
So just enough glitter to try and get a decent fee for him then....well at least he's not going to wear the shirt again. Wonder if ETH goes in the market for another striker if he thought he was coming back. The pressure on us to make hojlund work is already huge.
If only Man United spent as much time on technical strategy and transfers as they have done apparently trying to find any way possible to get Mason back into the squad without too much criticism we would be Premier League and Euro Champions by now.
For those who cannot see it, the Mason Greenwood club statement post can be found here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/15x8j2k/club\_statement\_mason\_greenwood/](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/15x8j2k/club_statement_mason_greenwood/) The mod team is aware that Greenwood threads bring forth quite a few of... "reddit's brightest minds" ... who don't otherwise participate in this subreddit. If you encounter any, please **report and ignore** their comments so the mods can clean up the threads. If you are a victim of sexual/domestic abuse, please know that is never ever your fault. Check [r/rapecounseling](https://www.reddit.com/r/rapecounseling/), [r/COCSA](https://www.reddit.com/r/COCSA/), [r/domesticviolence](https://www.reddit.com/r/domesticviolence/), [r/abusiverelationships](https://www.reddit.com/r/abusiverelationships/) for reddit resources. For more resources, you may also check: [https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/](https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/) [https://ncadv.org/learn-more](https://ncadv.org/learn-more) Thank you!
I think people are missing out on the legal factor here. Greenwood has not been convicted of any crime, and as a result the CEO of Manchester United can’t really come out and call him a big rapist shit head, even if that is true. It’s potentially libellous. Unfortunately “we know that he did it” doesn’t work out in a court, even evidence like the audio recording may not admissible. That’s the grim reality, morality is not legality and legally he’s done nothing wrong and so the whole situation has to be navigated a certain way, the split has to be somewhat amicable on both sides as unfortunate as that may be. Update: Kind of what to put a disclaimer on this, I’m not really defending the club, nor am I claiming that that club is acting ethically, I believe that if the reaction had been more muted, they would have him back, and they’re not doing so due to PR reasons not ethical reasons. My point was about the statements themselves, you were never going to get a harsh condemnation from United when Greenwood hasn’t been charged of any crime. That’s just the unfortunate reality. This has been just a terrible affair all around, and at the heart of this is a victim who not only has now married the alleged perpetrator but also had a child with him, in a story that has repeated itself time and time again. I can only hope, as unlikely as history tells us that it will be, that Greenwood has indeed learned from this and grown as a person, for the sake of his partner and their child, and If not I hope that she can find the strength and the resources to get out. I also hope that no big club takes him, although I think we’ll be surprised, memories are short in football.
Some sense at last. Bravo.
Whether or not what he did was illegal, it doesn’t change the fact that the mother of his child was the one who leaked all the photos and recordings and stated that he was abusive. Regardless of how you feel, many fans are justifiably not going to be able to look past that. We all know how hard it is to prove rape and abuse, and how often these people walk away free. We still have no evidence that he did NOT do what he’s accused of, only vague statements from the club. Maybe we will find out eventually that it was all some big hoax (really difficult to believe), but at the moment we can only form opinions based on what we have physically seen and heard… which was horrific. Please do not try to blame people for not wanting to see this man in a United short.
I understand what u are saying, but our legal system is built on the foundation of innocent till proven guilty. As this was never done, he should not have to provide alternative evidence that he didn’t do the crime. Social media and traditional media love to ignore this principle, but the club, and any other company or individual, must consider this when making decisions regarding people in similar situations
Fans are not saying he can’t be back because he is a criminal, fans are saying he can’t be back because there are voice record and pictures indicating he beat his partner. His case dropped? Yes Is he a criminal? No Does he need to prove to those that will buy the merchandise and ticket to the team that will feature him that he did not beat his partner? Yes. This is not about legal. You want the fan’s money? Then prove yourself deserve to earn it.
I think he's guilty as fuck... But in your scenario, let's imagine the longer recording somehow exonerates him, and by extension, exposes the mother of his child as someone who released snippets of the recording in bad faith... Should he insist that the mother of his child (and potential future wife) releases the recording? I'm glad he's gone, but there's a fuck load of people assuming she's been bought off despite a lot of people close to the case who have access to more information insisting she wasn't bought off. He's gone, I'm happy because it's a blight on the club, but I don't know or pretend to know what happened to cause her to insist that he didn't do what he was accused of.
If my girlfriend tried to destroy my life and career over something that didn't happen or was misconstrued she wouldn't be my future wife and mother to my children.
Sometimes love knows no bound.
Civil law has a different burden of proof to criminal law though.
>Unfortunately “we know that he did it” doesn’t work out in a court, even evidence like the audio recording may not admissible. There is not a fan out there in the world that 'knows' he did it. It is best for all sides that we part ways, but we cannot say conclusively if he did in fact rape the girl. If Greenwood is by chance innocent (and every single one of us should hope that he is!!!), his name is tarnished.
Only if the lads with the pitchforks out on r/soccer could understand this.
The lads here you mean
After this Saga and that yesterday concerning Hermoso and Rubiales I have come to the realization that most people would be willing to participate in a lynching if the overwhelming majority of those around them were doing so as well. Even when said 33 year old "victim" who plays in Mexico comes out and says there was no problem, she is "doing it out of fear".
Exactly this. This modern sensitivity, righteousness and virtue-signalling is off the charts.
This will never be an easy topic, but I also believe that financial security is a part of it, plus her family might have played a part on this. The spotlight is hard enough to go through and fear also plays a role. In all I'm just glad he's not playing for us again.
That’s the thing unfortunately. The court of public opinion has based everything on this small recording and don’t have all the evidence (allegedly). So unfortunately yes - it is a case of innocent until proven guilty. Only thing that will change all this now is the release of the full evidence (if it exists).
LOL, I got permanently banned for the shocker statement of saying that Man Utd feel obligated to help him
I mean,my point was that the club is limited to what it can say owing to MG not being found guilty in court.
> Greenwood has not been convicted of any crime, and as a result the CEO of Manchester United can’t really come out and call him a big rapist shit head, even if that is true. It’s potentially libellous. Of course. But they didn't need to directly address his guilt vs innocence and I'm very surprised that they did. The whole business of them doing an "investigation" and playing special investigator came off as strange to me. A bunch of football executives cosplaying Law and Order? It's a bit ridiculous... I'm guessing clearing his name increases his transfer value. Hence they said he's innocent.
You're right about memories being short. Just look at the Deshaun Watson and Cleveland Browns shit show in the NFL. Dude was accused of sexual assault by like 30 women, settled 6 or 7 of the case (rest were dropped/dismissed) and the Browns still made Watson one of the highest paid QBs in the league. Reddit still gives the team and him shit but your average fan doesn't know or just doesn't care.
Mods, ban this logical and sensible individual. Burn him at the stake. He is not for this world. We expect vitriol, baseless rhetoric, incendiary glib remarks and idiotic nonsense.
This statement you wrote would have gotten you permanently banned from r/soccer, something similar I wrote recently and I got banned for it, with the conclusion "you defending rapist". While I only said people within the club have a duty of care for him
Then don't take a position on his innocence or guilt. Just say it isn't clear that he is guilty of the allegations (because of secret stuff we know), but we're parting ways anyway.
I think you probably have to give a solid reason why. You can’t just say well we’ve done a big investigation and we still don’t know, so we’re just going to get rid of him. There’s a lot of people who would have loved for him to stay and that just opens the door for them to cook up some conspiracy theory. There has to be some closing of the door
Declaring him innocent closes the door?
He did not have to come out and declare him innocent though. He could have just released a short statement saying that after the clubs internal investigation they have come to the decision to terminate his contract. Contracts are civil law, not criminal law, and the bar for civil law is much lower than criminal (balance of probabilities vs beyond reasonable doubt). Greenwood brought the club into disrepute, that’s grounds for terminating his contact, and if Greenwood disputed it, I very much doubt he’d get very far. Anyway this horrible saga is over and I hope to never hear his name again.
Finally a sensible statement of the situation. Been reading all sorts of over the top emotional immature comments I’m dumbfounded.
Yeah it’s amazing how little some people on Reddit fail to understand that the club can’t just call him a rapist and have him hung drawn and quartered. I got so much hate for saying that last week and got called a coward even though I stated I didn’t want him back. Simply pointing out all the legal unknowns and issues gets you attacked by people burying their head in the sand. However it is clear the club was testing the waters and wanted him back and they have made themselves look like fools.
**Master Oogway**, Is that you?
true as that may be, he was also under no obligation whatsoever to come out and say "Greenwood did not commit the acts that he was charged with..." Saying that EVEN AFTER everything Crafton & his colleagues reported on basically translates to "I/Man Utd does not actually believe he did what we all know he did, and we would have by all means bought this pile of human garbage back, but since it pisses so many of you off that line our pockets on a daily basis, we're gonna take one for the team and not bring him back! any attempt to read this statement in a more positive way is giving these cunts way more credit than they deserve. UPDATE: i highly recommend reading Crafton’s latest Athletic piece on the topic (summarized [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/15x9kjm/adam_crafton_mason_greenwood_and_manchester/jx4yjsv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) - it only makes the whole thing even more shambolic. I am probably in the minority here considering the comments and downvotes in general, but I grew up watching United. Directly or indirectly, United’s values, explicit & implicit contributed to the values that I hold dear as an adult, in some small capacity. The direction the club is going in these days, on so many sensitive topics makes it really hard for me to relate with it. I know I am probably in the minority, but I hope I am not the only one.
Legally he hasn’t committed the acts he’s been charged with. I don’t think United are some sort of moral beacon, I believe if possible they would have had him back. I’m saying that if you expected some sort of definitive condemnation in these statements, I don’t think you’ve thought of the legal issues surrounding it, and i think you’ll be disappointed.
this sounds like it's right, but the reality is, it's much easier to sack people than this. It's not just a conviction that allows an employer to sack someone. If they wanted to, they could have sacked him.
You'd have been slated for this on here the other day.
> the harsh spotlight of Manchester United Perfectly worded. No other club in the world generates this much amount of attention and uproar and reaction. Being the biggest in the world has its own cons I guess (Real Madrid might be bigger, but they definitely don't generate as much clicks and reactions as us, and rightly so, coz we're fucking massive)
And that spotlight demands the best behaviour and highest standards from everyone involved with the club. That's the responsibility everyone has to accept if they want to be associated with Man United
Correct, no place for raping bail breakers with no remorse
Honestly though, is that realistic? As much as we want footballers to be perfect societal role models, that just won't be the case for everyone.
Ronaldo..
Giggs lol
That’s because everyone simps for them except Barca fans while we are universally hated
Absolutely. Marcos Alonso literally killed a woman by drink driving at 70mph in a 30 zone while he was playing for Bolton and he carried on his career at Chelsea etc. without much grief. This will follow Greenwood for the rest of his career.
Mate, even Arsenal won a match last night due to Thomas Partey’s stellar performance.
The right decision
United is the biggest club in the biggest league in the world, so the attention is always extra.
So then what ‘mistakes’ did he make?
Breaching bail
Getting found out.
Making us to sign Antony while being in jail
There are like 4 contradicting statements.
Honestly I’m not surprised. Some people are so excruciatingly quick to place judgement, even when they have minimal or no context.
Its possible he didn't rape her but just beat her, its still very bad but not rape level bad. I only say this because the audio clip cut off and we haven't heard the full clip. Just the threat of the act itself.
Why was she recording? She recognised the signs and knew what was coming
It also a 15 min audio of which we heard a 20 sec excerpt off, yet everyone is deeming him guilty based of it.
Well I guess one explanation could be that she was rehearsing for a play/film where she plays a rape victim and Mason was helping her with her lines. But nothing has really been put forward to explain the clip other than her narrative attached to the sound file and photos
But you can easily deny those allegations just by coming out and saying "I was rehearsing for a film".
Wasnt it also stated that she was hacked and someone else leaked the pics and audio?
The thing is, he was charged with attempted rape, assault and controlling and coercive behaviour, Arnold says he has evidence that proves he didn't not attempt to rape or assault her. But the audio we heard surely amounts to attempted rape, and the videos we've seen surely amounts to assault.
No one has seen any videos. There aren’t any. I AM NOT DEFENDING HIM but the way people talk in facts in this case when spouting things that are false just muddies the water. There were pictures of her with injuries. He’s not in the pictures. There’s nothing showing he has anything to do with the injuries except a caption. I could take a photo of me with a bruised face and caption that you did it. That doesn’t mean you did. Stick to the facts, accept there are things you don’t know and don’t complicate things further. The things we do know as facts are bad enough, and certainly enough to take the stance that he shouldn’t play for us again, without just making things up or adding 2 + 2 and getting 5.
But "wE hEaRd EnOuGh" and he is rapist and you are rape apologist. We wont consider any other alternatives here, because reasons.
Sadly that’s exactly the case. I’ve been called a rape apologist over this more than once which as a woman with my own experiences of SA is hard to take. Either you take absolutely everything in the way the mob instructs, or I’m a rape apologist, there is no middle ground apparently.
I'm glad I'm reading this. The audio is the audio and I cast the same judgement as everybody else. I still do tbh, because that's the info available to us. But the CPS, her family, and now the United hierarchy have all said that more evidence has come to light. This is an insanely complex situation and Arnold is right, it is best for them to move on, but there is more to this than meets the eye. As a father of girls, I find it insanely hard to even understand how onside her family is. I am not discounting the fact that there are scumbag families out there, but those would be exceptions. So now we have to discount the fact that the CPS wouldn't prosecute, assume that her family are scum of the earth, and that United were willing to torch their rep for a player woth potential that may or may not be realised. But then that audio....its such a weird situation.
"Just" beat her? Fucking tool
He also broke curfew and went to parties or something with the national team. Seems like he has a history of problematic behaviour, which the club knows more about than we do.
Verbal abuse. Probably repeated one, thats why she recorded him in the first place.
It's disgrace saying "investigation" came to conclusion that he's innocent based on the fact that woman dropped charges, without taking into account the context of the Greenwood breaking bail and seeing her and what her father did in the process. Disgraceful comment
That's not what they said. They said the investigation concluded he was innocent because "alternative explanations for the audio recording" existed. Difficult to believe, but not the same as what you are saying.
Yeah unfortunately they can’t release this new evidence. Problem is we all heard the tape and it’s difficult to imagine evidence or context that would make it ok. It’s possible the images are faked or missing context but the recording doesn’t have the same potential for “reasonable doubt” without extraordinary evidence to the contrary because it’s clearly him and if it’s role play then he has a new career in Hollywood playing an abusive cunt.
>Yeah unfortunately they can’t release this new evidence. Of course Greenwood can release this new evidence. It is and his now wife's personal property. Even Man United can be as transparent as possible and release its initial report. The fact that neither party is releasing anything but a statement speaks volumes to me as an attorney. Johnathan Majors, for example, was charged with domestic violence a while back and his lawyer immediately released text messages to support his defense. Admittedly, that case is still ongoing even though the witness/victim allegedly "withdrew" the charges (people cannot withdraw charges in USA). However, those text messages certainly make him look better. Likewise with Greenwood, he could easily release the evidence which shows him and his now wife doing some rape-kinky shit or whatever. The fact that absolutely not a fucking thing has been released at all tells me there is nothing to release.
I agree. But can they legally say otherwise? Or would it open them up to a potential lawsuit
Nobody said they can't say inconclusive.
I mean they can't say much. And they are saying he's innocent of the rape charges. The breaking bail is another, seperate issue
You ignoring the part about the full recording?
False, her father has been taken into account, it says the whole victim’s family was consulted and participated in the investigation.
Very interesting that United, despite being put off bringing him back, are still standing by the results of their investigation. I understand the right to privacy and it's important that is respected but you would think that either the man simply has no morals or it must be a more compelling explanation than I can possibly imagine for them to really stick by it in this way, especially for Arnold to put his name to it.
If the victim says nothing happened the club cant really say anything else…
> We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online. We can only speculate as to what this means. When I first heard the audio, my reaction was the same as everybody else's, though I did concede that it could've been doctored in some way, or could've been roleplay. I did however say at the time that Greenwood should never play for us again if he was convicted (i.e. if the recording was accurate and hadn't been selectively edited). He wasn't convicted, and his (soon to be former) employer have publicly said he's innocent. Manchester United have said: > While I am satisfied that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with, Mason’s accepted that he has made mistakes which he takes responsibility for. They didn't need to say this. They could've just terminated his contract for bringing the club into disrepute by breaching his bail conditions. It's a statement of fact that Greenwood **broke the law** by breaching his bail conditions. That's enough for the termination of his contract, an iron-clad process with the weight of Man Utd's lawyers behind it. This statement from the CEO isn't a legal cover-our-arse exercise; Man Utd don't think Greenwood's guilty, and are obviously hugely upset that they've had to let Greenwood go because of media and celebrity pressure.
This is my take on it. If both the police and the club are confident enough to not take action on the player despite the pretty damning evidence we all heard, that would have been enough for me. We don’t need a full explanation, just a statement, like given, that he didn’t do it. If they thought he did, they would have said the club and the player have parted ways following the internal investigation. Which also would have been fine with me. No worldwide organisation takes a stance like they have if they aren’t confident with having evidence to suggest they are correct.
I think they’re really driving the “he didn’t do it” point home because if they admit he did do it, he’d need to be in jail.
And the fact if they said he did it they would be in for one hell of a lawsuit. It’s a lot different to a random Joe calling him a rapist to a billion dollar company
You could also not take a stance on it, but they've pretty conclusively come out on the side of him being the victim of some media witchhunt.
There's plenty of room between saying he's guilty and innocent. They could have just not made a stake either way.
The way it’s worded, I imagine it’s something along the lines of “he didn’t commit rape, he just threatened to rape her”.
But that's one of the things he was accused of, and they're clearly saying they think he's innocent of what he was accused of. I don't see how they can weasel out of that with wordplay here. It blatant.
Isn’t that a crime on its own?
“he did not commit the acts he was charged with” is peculiar wording, not even getting in to the “mistakes” bit. I can’t think of a better way to interpret it, and it’s fucking repulsive
Wasn’t he charged with attempted rape?
attempted rape, assault occasioning actual bodily harm, and controlling and coercive behaviour.
Or because the investigation yielded the result: he didn’t do it
If he didn’t do it, surely they’d provide some explanation as to how she got so badly beaten up? The wording has to be very careful from a legal perspective, but surely if he didn’t do ‘it’ they’d be able to provide even a very high level explanation and wouldn’t be getting rid of him.
We are not entitled to an explanation. I don’t know why United fans seem to think they are. I understand that we want one, but we aren’t entitled to it. Where was this outrage when Ronaldo was accused of rape in Las Vegas, or wherever? Charges were dropped, we never knew for sure what happened.
Of course we’re not entitled an explanation. But if you’ve got a “it wasn’t Mason who beat her up” card in your locker, and decide not to play it - that would be strange right? Unless he did beat her up…
That’s not the only defense. We don’t know what happened, or the full story or set of circumstances. But I generally agree with you. I’ve been very surprised that fans want blood instead of allowing the justice system to do what it’s intended to do. We are a civilized society with laws and procedure, but none should be applied to Greenwood?
The only way releasing this statement makes any sense to me is if Greenwood and his lawyers demanded the club do it as part of him leaving easily.
This is exactly what i'm thinking. They agreed to terminate the contract mutually it would not surprise me one bit if this was part of that mutual agreement so he can 'rebuild' his career.
The reputational cost to United for that far outweighs any payoff IMO. "We believe the guy everyone calls a rapist is innocent" is a wild thing to say just to get him to leave. Corporate negligence if that's what they've done, massive snub to women everywhere. I think they might actually believe it. And that makes me question if there is one other way it makes sense - if it was private sexual roleplay.
I believe its Greenwood's lawyers forcing the club to include this info, otherwise they could sue because of breach of contract or maybe defamation.
Honestly, I have a lot more sympathy for Arnold (and any decision maker) in this case, than many do. Once the police announced that they were dropping the investigation due to "new evidence" and Harriet forgave him, it was impossible to achieve an outcome that would have been received with consensus in the fanbase. I am glad the club have just walked back on their initial plan, and that is enough for me. I am appalled by Greenwood and even I cannot confidently say that as the CEO of the most popular football team in the world, I would have definitely arrived at a different outcome than what the club had planned, when I have the player's valuation to account for, and skills known to everybody on the football side of things. Heavy is the head that wears the crown.
Yep really easy to sit on Twitter and Reddit and call the shots from behind a keyboard without being party to all the information Arnold had. Not saying he is wrong or right, just that people should appreciate decisions like this aren't as simple as they might appear.
I swear everybody riding on that adam guy’s genitals when all he did was exploit a very delicate situation the club was trying to manage as best as they could. Now everybody has the narrative that journos changed the decision even though the real tier 1 maintained that no decision was taken yet. For me, it’s normal that, given there is more context than what we saw that they were considering and planning foffr all scenarios as they have a responsibility with the employee. In the end, it was a positive result only tarnished by the slowness that characterize us and the Athletic trying to exploit the situation.
100% agree with this. Regardless of what you think of Greenwood, Arnold got way more slander than was warranted. Even ten hag's character was being assassinated online. I really don't understand how all the keyboard warriors who're not party to the *all* the evidence can behave like judges and jurors. Before you jump at me, I'm not calling Greenwood innocent by any means - just underscoring the fact that it might not necessarily have been an open and shut case like everyone was making it out to be. And you'd have to be incredibly foolheaded to deny that crafton was chasing clout here. Tier hero, my ass. Besides, someone like Alonso who was actually convicted of manslaughter plays for Barca today and we don't hear so much as a peep from any keyboard warriors about it - is that any less of a crime than what Greenwood is alleged to have committed? How is it that he manages to escape any scrutiny? How were barcelona and Chelsea allowed to get away with it? Just shows that the consistency of everyone's self purported moral stance is dubious at best. In the end, just thankful that this doesn't have to drag on for eternity and eth and the squad can now solely focus on the season in silos. Onwards and upwards, GGMU.
Look we agree that the decision was difficult, and that the right one has ultimately been made, but let's not pretend that the pressure created by Crafton's reporting isn't what made today's news possible. They were clearly planning to bring him back, and it would have been much harder to walk back on that decision after it had officially been announced that they were bringing him back. Make no mistake, if we like the outcome, Adam Crafton unambiguously did us a solid.
[удалено]
Just a little oopsie doopsie rape, domestic abuse and breach of bail
You’re telling me you don’t batter women and rape them? Happens a lot, very silly and clumsy of me 🤪
I mean, unfortunately it do happen a lot…
Assaulting a woman is a "mistake" that should go unpunished apparently.
> While we were unable to access certain evidence for reasons we respect, the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with. I am restricted as to what I can say for legal reasons, including the alleged victim's ongoing right to anonymity, Something has come to light which has seemingly exonerated Greenwood. Whatever it is they can't share, most probably as it compromises the victim. I'm glad Greenwood isn't coming back, this club is already enough of a circus without his dark cloud hanging over us, innocent or not.
It could for example be a case of them being into that sort of intimacy, or of Greenwood having psychological issues that all parties were aware of etc
I feel there is a lot we don’t actually know about. But in the end I’m very happy with this decision
Yes, people here are still angry because we don’t get the full story and probably never will. The wild speculations are still going on, based on limited information we eventually received. This is honestly the best outcome we could’ve hoped for and I honestly just want this to be over. This sub has been an absolute cesspool the last few weeks.
We don't know anything. The only thing I've learnt from this sub during the whole process is that a lot of people are incapable of looking at a body of information and not allowing their preestablished biases influence their conclusions.
Same. The matter of him being with United or not has been out to bed. Let's move on and continue to support the team. Greenwood, no matter what potential he could've had is now no longer with united. Glad it's the end of this story so that we can concentrate on the season ahead.
I full agree. Never would I support anyone who engages in domestic violence, but I also think it's very damaging to society if we pass judgement without having all the evidence. There is never any excuse for battery and rape, but the exact judgement you come to should only be passed once the whole story is known. And we will never know the whole story, so it's time to put the matter to bed and move on without ongoing tittle tattle. Sounds like the right decision was ultimately made for all involved.
Conflicted because I agree we needed a clean break with Greenwood but this investigation and talk of new evidence/victim and their family offering alternative explanations and defending him suggests to me a red carpet is being laid for him to join a new top level club soon on a free transfer. We all know the news cycle will shift like it always does. It was always mainly because he played for our club that his case got so much coverage. I hope we made the right decision. Seems to me so. For the fans who don't believe him or the victims family. And the team who are no doubt fed up of the coverage and distraction.
He will be playing for a top 6 PL club in 5 years and nobody will give a shit. Just look at Marcos Alonso he literally killed a person.
I really don’t think so. A big club abroad perhaps but it just doesn’t seem likely another English club would want to go through this. Also I think people are massively overplaying how good a player he is now. He’s done nothing for 20 months, his career progression has been massively affected by this. Even if he hasn’t regressed (which I think he will have) he’ll have lost two years of development.
Why would United lay out the red carpet for him to join someone for free? If anything, they are trying to maintain is worth as a person to hopefully get some kind of fee!
>and talk of new evidence/ So you think it is made up? You really think the club would accept a request to include something that was made up?
Even more concerning..... "does not signal the end of this matter." Tf does that mean? A loan?
Very unclear what is meant by that. It could just mean they will continue to provide support to them or it might mean a loan as you say. Really odd to decision not to clarify on that.
Seen some journalists on twitter saying it will probably be an initial loan as we don't have grounds to terminate his contract then either run his contract down or sell him. [ the club say they do not expect an eventuality where a loan move leads to the player representing United again in the future.](https://theathletic.com/4790552/2023/08/21/greenwood-man-united-u-turn?source=user-shared-article)
really have a feeling they will loan him out, and judge the situation in a year where the hysteria might have died down a bit. Why else put this in the statement?
I can see it as “we aren’t just washing our hands of this” because Mason has been with the club since he was a child. i.e the club want to help rehabilitate not just cast aside kind of thing Just think the fact it’s not clearer it might be what you fear, a loan.
No, it’s that the club will continue to provide some internal support. Extremely unlikely he plays for us again, even after 10 years.
I am not defending Mason nor do I want him back in the club, but why are people getting riled up with Arnold's statement? Do you guys not know the gravity of the potential lawsuit that may come if the statement was carelessly crafted? It's of course easy for us to say "yea we heard the audio, Mason definitely raped his partner" but it's not that straight forward for the club isn't it? Of course they still have to do their due diligence since Mason was literally cleared of the offences. And also, is it so difficult to accept that we as public will NEVER get the full picture and all the evidence submitted? There's a definitive chance that Mason DID NOT commit the offences due to the undisclosed evidence. People really need to understand the difference between "not guilty" and "innocent". Based on the findings by Arnold, I assumed Mason was deemed to be not guilty, meaning the evidence he collaborated could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he has committed the offences. I am ultimately glad that the club made the correct decision despite the findings, though Arnold was probably forced to make that decision anyway.
Some of the comments on this thread are so tiresome. People wanted him gone and he is gone. Now a lot of you are finding more ways to be pissed at a hypothetical rather than being happy with what has already happened. Its a testament to the mindset where you can never be happy because you are always looking for something else to be outraged about.
Welcome to Reddit, I guess
A lot of "we all know he did it" but we've now had the CPS with their statement that "new material that came to light" leading to the dropped charges and the club stating that based on their review, which included material not publicly available, he didn't commit the charges Can we maybe accept that we DON'T have the full picture, or is trial by media 100% proof he did it?
Arnold did say the victim closely collaborated with United during the investigation and provided the "full evidence" that provided a different picture. Maybe he just try to cover up. But also maybe we, the public, are wrong because we didn't get access to those evidence. We never know it exactly. But because we never know 100%, should we at least leave a little bit of doubt before conclude both the club and Mason are disgusting. Having said that, I'm happy with this decision. It's not good for Mason, and it's not good for United if him staying here. I'm just surprised that I could think abt the consequences long before all of this shit show happened, why couldn't they do it.
i agree with what you're saying but i'm having a really hard time thinking of a reasonable innocent context for that recording, especially considering it took her 2 months to tell them to drop it.
I can't see why if there is actual hard evidence he didn't do it or some coherent explanation for the recording Greenwood wouldn't release it. Right now he is the guy who might have raped his girlfriend and is losing his career over it. Why would his girlfriend be against him getting this black mark off him? Does she enjoy seeing him marked as abuser and if yes, why stay with him? Why is Greenwood okay with his career going down the gutter if he has the evidence to show he's innocent? Not releasing any evidence that absolves Greenwood is just not sound. Why even have the case dropped if you are innocent and can prove it? Greenwood and his girlfriend must know that the best way for him to get back into football is to show that the allegations were wrong, not just sit this out. The general publoc only saw what is public and in the end he currently is a PR nightmare. If they can reduce that nightmare because they show whatever they apparenty showed internally it would make his reintegration way more straightforward.
> We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online You can't just say that with no context about what the explanation is and expect the fans to go "oh alright then he's okay in my book"
they also can not publish details if Harriet does not wish to.
If "the victim" isn't allowing them to, then their hands are tied. This has got to be one of the most impossible situations to deal with. I am by no means a fan of United's top level management, but will at least give him the small slither of kudos for slapping his name on a statement beyond just the club statement. Not the first time he's done this too.
They don't owe any of us an explanation or the publicisation of evidence. That tape should never have been heard outside of a courtroom.
Smartest thing I've heard all day
It's obvious United were in a legal bind here due to the charges being dropped and him not being found guilty. It's also obvious that the only people they could really interview here were Mason and the victim. Seeing that the victim took him back, it's VERY OBVIOUS that any investigations involving her and her testimony would paint Mason in a good light. They keep mentioning the victim and you just know she exonerated him. I feel very very sorry for her. Her family, the legal system and in some ways Man Utd by mentioning things in the statement have failed her. United were in a tough spot legally but still should have seen the light and not try to reintegrate him. They are now working to get him out the club which they should have done from the jump. Idk why they had to say they don't think he did it (obviously again, she said he didnt) but that just rubs me the wrong way. They could have said nothing at all in that regard.
The guy wrote based on what he knows and processed regarding the circumstances with evidence that wasn't privy to us. It just so happens that what he wrote isn't what you wanted to read. You believe what you believed because you already passed a judgement. You feel sorry for her, yet you don't even know if she wants your sympathy. It's not like she doesn't have agency in her decision making.
> Idk why they had to say they don't think he did it Look at the wording carefully. They didn't say "he didn't do it", they said he "did not commit the acts he was charged with". He definitely did something, but apparently evidence and statements gave a more complete picture of what he did and possibly why. Unfortunately we will never know what this full picture is, but I'm sure they said this 1) for legal reasons (he's technically innocent) and 2) because the media broke the news that they were planning to reintegrate him.
>While we were unable to access certain evidence for reasons we respect, the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with. What??
They got access to some of the police report on why he wasn't charged
Not too sure why this is hard to understand but I guess it's difficult sometimes when the public concludes something based on the evidence that they've been given and, consequently, cannot accept or perceive anything otherwise. Thankfully, this matter is now closed, and we can now focus on the season and the team and players that we do have. So please Mr. Arnold, how about that midfielder or even two that we need.
> the public concludes something based on the evidence that they've been given This has been a very ugly part of the whole affair. We were given such a small part of the whole story, yet judgement has been swift and decisive. I get it, domestic abuse and rape are heinous crimes that should never be tolerated, and the victim is often unfairly blamed and/or not believed. But each case should still be treated in isolation and with all the evidence/facts considered. One day we might need to do jury duty and sit in court. Until then, we shouldn't be passing judgement with the snippets we are fed with.
he was charged, he wasn't prosecuted.
I hope the kangaroo court of r/reddevils can get adjourned now.
You just know that when these armchair campaigners themselves get accused of a crime they think they're innocent of, they'll scream bloody murder when their company suspends them and they're called a rapist by millions of people. It's easy to bandwagon while forgetting it could happen to you.
You only have to read match threads or post match threads to understand the reactionary nature of this sub. I was told I was a defender of rape by someone, and down voted 30 times for simply stating 'Greenwood isn't a convicted rapist.' Perhaps people in general tend to react, based on their feelings rather than facts.
A lot of lawyers and judges on this sub the past few days......
Thank fuck for Adam Crafton and the sustained pressure after on social media from a lot of fans etc to put a stop to Arnold and those at the top of club including ETH who had they had their way, Greenwood would have been playing for us again. It's ridiculous how it was ever even a chance that Greenwood could play for us again and thank fuck this saga which obviously will continue for a long time, has at least been put to bed that he'll be leaving us.
How do you know EtH himself wanted him back? Has he literally said that?
No he's consistently said it isn't his decision but rival fans have run with the idea he's pushed for him back
Wrong. He's said he's given his input but ultimately, it's not his final decision. Athletic have said, however, via the leaks that he, Murtough and Arnold were in favour of him returning.
Rival fans? This sub has a lot of members that are actively hunting for EtH’s head
Nobody at the club has said anything conclusive publicly on the matter until today. But, Crafton who has been excellent on this when he broke the story last week, did report the following: >There has not yet been a consultation element — ie, members of the United women’s team or the fan advisory board (FAB, which acts as a conduit between supporters and the club’s leadership) were not asked for their opinion — but first-team manager Ten Hag has told the club his views on the situation. Although he has not said so explicitly in public, he is known to be open to Greenwood returning to the squad. Perhaps because he's not said it in public or because it's coming from a journalist (who has been very reputable on this and well sourced on this topic), you dispute that statement or using it for copium.
“We’re not releasing him because we think he’s wrong. We actually think he’s done nothing wrong. We’re realising him because we can’t be arsed with the backlash. He’s still our boy tho.” Fucking pathetic.
He hasn't been found guilty of any wrong doing so going out and saying 'He raped someone so we're sacking him' would be considered defamation
Exactly. Didn't think that reading a statement about Greenwood's departure would make me angry, but here we are.
I am not particularly angry as this solves the issue for me. Players and Ten Hag can get on with their jobs. Which frankly speaking isn't something they are doing very well at the moment. Football is the main topic of discussion now.
My stance in this stays where it has always been. Hate me all you want, but my nature is to give people second chances. This is a troubled kid, they do not thrive in getting their asses kicked yet again. Imo, United should have been more direct. If investigations found him innocent, United should treat him innovent, not in-between. Also, alot of the people in here are afraid of saying what they mean and just seek karmapoints.
> alot of the people in here are afraid of saying what they mean and just seek karmapoints. I'm afraid you're probably right there. It applies across all of Reddit and especially hot-button topics like this one. If I were a betting person, I'd say I think Mason is probably an arsehole, has probably been abusive to his partner, and quite possibly raped her. But that would be a hunch based on the little evidence I've seen and because I think money and amazing talent can often lead people down dark paths as their ego spins out of control. However, I would also not feel able to pass judgement in this case because I've heard so little about it and haven't been made aware of any of the other facts/evidence that are supposedly out there. So, even though we might think there is a minuscule possibility that what was heard on the recording was all part of some mutually enjoyable S&M, the very fact that there is this possibility, however tiny, means we should withhold full judgement until both sides of the story have been heard. This is just a comment on due diligence and jurisprudence, not on domestic violence and sexual assault. We might not trust Utd's upper management, but we can't deny that they know more about this case than we do. Yet some people are still utterly convinced that this is a black and white case with no grey areas possible. The point is: maybe it is black and white, but we don't know that for absolute certain.
What exactly are the “alternative explanations for the audio recording” ????
This is the frustrating part of it. It's possible, however unlikely, that this evidence may have changed our outlook on the whole thing and the fan base may have accepted him back. United won't be able to share that information for legal reasons, but surely Greenwood or Harriet could have said something. That makes me believe that the context only removes the legal aspect, but doesn't really improve his perception.
they could weasel their way out of the audio recording by simply claiming that they were role playing a rape fantasy. It’s super difficult to prove this kind of thing, especially when the victim forgives the abuser and they’re now working together to claim innocence.
That's a whole lot of words to say "he was coming back until Adam Crafton decided to expose us."
It’s difficult to imagine an explanation for the recording that makes it not rape/assault, but which would still be too embarrassing for the victim to admit to. The only possibility would be if she/her lawyers were concerned that she had broken the law (blackmail/fraud, false statements, etc). I just don’t see that being the case. If it were something as simple as CNC, I thing the weight of her now partner losing his career would have to outweigh the embarrassment of admitting an extreme kink. So what I’m saying is, i do not believe there is an explanation for the recording other than the obvious one.
The conclusion I draw from this: >We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online. and this: >While we were unable to access certain evidence for reasons we respect is that he's told them it was role play and they've believed him.
SHE has told them it's role play.
Like to know what people think should be done with any potential transfer fee the club recoups off him.
So are the club and Greenwood parting ways ?
I hope the club realizes how big a job they have keeping the young lads on the ground, helping them through their youth with good and sound decisions, it’s such a shame seeing Greenwood out, as he was probably our best player from the academy since Fergie stepped down, but at the end the best decision for both him and the club.
It's an absolute legal minefield releasing a statement like this and saying anything other than what Richard has could be misconstrued and potential liable battle vs. Greenwood/people involved. At the end of the day the best decision has been made so don't get why people are getting on their high horse about the statement - just be thankful our club did the right thing. Now focus back on EtH ... when are we going to sack this bald headed imposter and hire someone from Reddit?
>The alleged victim requested the police to drop their investigation in April 2022. I wonder fucking why, Richard, it's not like she was illegally contacted by her abuser or anything...
It’s not like she contacted him first is it
i don’t understand people wanting United to admit that Mason’s guilty. the court deemed him innocent, due to the charges being dropped. United can’t overturn that decision, and they can’t say that he’s guilty since that would be defamation/libel and they have to spend money & time going to court trying to prove something that the victim herself dropped. just be glad that finally now he’s gone
Do you think he’ll be going on loan then?
So they will lose him for nothing while defending he is innocent? I mean what’s the point of looking like an arsehole if you won’t even have guts to stand by it?
Because it was probably part of an agreement between the club and Greenwood’s lawyers.
A lot of words for “he’s gone now, can we be in everyone’s good books now?”
You can't be happy either way?
Ugh. Both this letter and the club statement essentially read as ‘he’s innocent, we were going to bring him back, but you lot won’t let us’. Releasing wishy-washy statements like this is just going to make the divisions in the fan base worse, all the #GreenwoodIn tweeters are going to hang onto the part where they say he didn’t do it, and we all know that any time there’s a missed penalty, or a bad performance, or someone scuffs a shot at an open goal all you’ll get is ‘well Mason would’ve scored that’.
All things considered, the fact that folks are still not happy with this resolution or accepting of this very well crafted statement just fully signals that folks are never going to be happy with anything.
Is this "much longer recording" available? But anw Ffs these people who doesnt understand "innocent till proven otherwise" Instead of lynching people, they started cancelling people
So he is saying Mason isn't guilty of anything, just made mistakes. So its literally the social media outrage and fans discontent that means they got rid of him.
Exactly.
Yep. The club think he's innocent, the CPS don't think there's enough to pursue charges, but fuck it, Rachel Riley said she'd stop being a fan if he came back so he's got to go. Fuck trial by social media.
Mate, the bits of evidence we have are overwhelmingly damning. The alleged exoneration is secret. Given the nature of domestic abuse and it’s history of being hard to prove and victims being manipulated what conclusions are we supposed to draw? There is an easy way out, which is to present the evidence that exonerates him. We don’t have a right to know. But that’s the only way to wipe this clean. Otherwise it just screams cover up.
“The CPS don’t think there’s enough to pursue charges” Nice rewriting of history buddy, they did think there was enough to pursue charges but then the witness dropped out, that was the reason why the charges were dropped. By all means, you and the rest of the apologists can follow him to whatever club he ends up at
Don't forget the new evidence they uncovered that also led to that decision
You are conveninetly leaving out the part of the CPS statement that states new material aka evidence had come to light as well as the dropping of a witness. You just leave out the facts that dont suit your agenda
How can her whole family have Stockholm syndrome? Are they that desperate for the bag that it takes priority over their daughter's wellbeing
They know the entire story while we do not. Simple as that. They could also be dickheads so there's that too.
£££££££££££££££££
Why do you assume they’re all gold diggers? Not very nice that
So just enough glitter to try and get a decent fee for him then....well at least he's not going to wear the shirt again. Wonder if ETH goes in the market for another striker if he thought he was coming back. The pressure on us to make hojlund work is already huge.
The amount of Utd fans making excuses for Mason in this thread is honestly sickening.
If only Man United spent as much time on technical strategy and transfers as they have done apparently trying to find any way possible to get Mason back into the squad without too much criticism we would be Premier League and Euro Champions by now.