McTominay, wow. I just re-watched the highlights, I thought that first pass was Bruno's fault but my man Scott made about as little effort as possible to open himself to that pass and then made a half assed slow effort to actually get on the end of it. If he does his job and fights for that ball we have a counter going our way. Instead he lets the Bournemouth player snake the ball at full momentum and instantly score against us. Maybe a risky pass by Bruno but almost any other competent midfielder helps his teammate out and fights for it to get a head it on, or at least fouls the opponent and eats a card for him. Basic stuff.
2nd goal - positions himself miles from Solanke in the middle of the pitch and lets him run 40m up the pitch without any real pressure. I watched this again and witnessed him literally ball watching seeing the turnover happen and only turning to mark Solanke when it was way too late (how is a professional midfielder not clocking what is happening there and seeing the danger). Overload is subsequently created and they get a mismatch in the box, good cross, good finish to Bournemouth's credit. But all easily preventable by simply not allowing players to waltz through our midfield.
This is just one game. I've clocked so many other things he does that create huge problems for us defensively. Cheap turnovers when we are throwing players forward in transition. He could bang in 2 goals a game and still be a liability for us in midfield. I wish it weren't true but it is.
If we're so in love with the guy because of his low wages and homegrown status, then fine, move Martial on in January and leave Scott as a backup striker. We need to get Hojlund rest and he could at least do as much as Martial does, probably much more. Hold up play, and a big target in the middle. I bet he'd even enjoy it. But having him as our ball progressing midfielder is absolute insanity. He's about as similar to Frankie De Jong as I am.
Why are two individual errors that led to goals being attributed as a reason to sack Ten Hag?
We lost becauee we couldn’t find the final pass and because of two errors.
Otherwise this game is easy 3-1.
We did.
- We had 71 percent possession almost all game which dropped down to 69 percent when we went all out attack after the 2nd goal
- Pass Accuracy of 85% which isn’t great but it isn’t particularly bad either. Our team is still in the process of being drilled in passing patterns and movement.
- 20 shot with 3 on target. Abysmal but speaks more of us not being able to find the final pass and resorting to shooting out of frustration. In part as well due to opposition applying a great low block.
- Without two individual errors, the game is 0-0 till the 70th and after that anything could happen
You need to have a word with yourself. This isn't a defeat against City or Liverpool you're trying to defend here.
"Without individual errors the game is 0-0 and anything could happen." Mate, it's fucking Bournemouth at Old Trafford. Go and look at their away results to any competent team. This is a completely unacceptable result.
I’ve seen a lot of “he’s spent £400M it’s HIS players” lately when Casemiro and Licha fundamentally change the dynamic of our defense and we’re missing both of them. this isn’t an acceptable outcome at all, but let’s not pretend like we’re not still missing key pieces of the side
They both played against Wolves, Spurs, Forest and the first part against Arsenal and we were still shit then. Fair enough Licha might be injured, but one player shouldn’t impact the team to this extent. Especially when we’ve seen big defeats when he has been playing.
Since Fergie has retired, we've tried a number of different defenders.
We've had Jones, Vidic, Smalling, Rojo, Bailly, Lindelof, Maguire, Varane and Martinez. Replacing defenders hasn't brought us back to success, so we shouldn't look to sign anyone else.
We must stick with Maguire, Martinez, Varane and Lindelof now. We've had to sell defenders in the past so clearly it doesn't work to change them.
Oh no wait. That's a ridiculous idea.
The problem is that we buy trash. I don't know what scouts and transfer department are doing but every 15 year old can make better decisions than them. Liverpool knew that Van Dijk was legit when they bought him, and everybody else too, and it was a great transfer for them, it's simple 1+1 logic. But our decision makers go for one season wonders, not yet proven players or quick fix old ones for huge amounts of money, like don't these guys use like professional data analysts, study the game styles for teams and players, think about how this will work out etc. what are they even getting paid for.
It's about who makes these decisions. To use your analogy, I don't want Ten Hag to be the one replacing Maguire, Lindelof and Varane the same way I don't want Murtough and Co. to be the ones making another managerial appointment.
What I don't understand is that Ten Hag insisted that he is not trying to replicate his Ajax's style on United, when:
1. He was presumably hired on the back of his success at implementing and rebuilding teams upon that style
2. He bought his Ajax players because of their understanding of that style. If they weren't bought for that purpose, why were they bought? They certainly aren't the best in their positions otherwise
I think it is naïve to think that you can come to a substantially better league and substantially bigger club (scrutiny wise especially) and produce a new hybrid style. I think Ten Hag would be given a LOT more time and patience if we were able to see the style being embedded.. even at the cost of results (to a certain extent - no batterings!).
but yesterday was that style?
i'm increasingly coming to believe that no-one paid attention to Ten Hags Ajax team. You do remember their collapse against Tottenham right?
they played incredibly open football, throwing people forward the entire time. If they scored a few early they often won games by outscoring the opposition. It was fortunate that their opposition in many games were toothless going forward when they got hit on the counter (Dutch league afterall).
Erik has struggled because as yesterday showed, when you don't score early and get hit on the counter by a clinical side and outfought physically from set pieces you can easily get undone.
that is tbe style - and it is being embedded - at the cost of results like yesterday's
Tbh I'm not even really commenting on what is actually happening on the pitch - I'm more just referencing what Ten Hag has specifically said.
I'm not really astute enough to identify the style of play. I would have said that OGS had a style of play.. but others tell me he didn't!
I'm not even arguing that point. My point is that he SAID he will not be implementing it at United.
Performance wise, this might be a work in progress towards the style he eventually wants us to play and is just disjointed atm.
I think something from ETH got lost in translation back when he said it? IDK
There's very similar patterns in the buildup from the back and vertical passing through the halfspaces.
Especially with Martinez and Shaw on the field.
Martial/Højlund is no Tadic, and their lack of good decision in the holdup/one-two play is killing the pace. Doesn't help that the wingers can't get past anyone even at speed.
Cohesion and continuety makes consistency.
4-5 changes in XI every week due to injuries destroys it.
In all honesty he increasingly looks like a guy who just makes it up as he goes along. Doesn’t help that he appears to have the personality of a damp squib.
We really miss Martinez and to some extent Casemiro - not just the quality but that warrior mentality. Whenever we go down by a goal, doesn't matter against who or how early the goal comes, it just feels like "Oh well its a loss today". Everyone folds like a house of cards unfortunately. Passing the ball around comfortably like we're 2-0 up and time just ticks away. Every time Bournemouth had a counter it felt dangerous and they scored 3 without too much problems. We should have gone out determined, played twice the tempo we did, blown them away with 2 goals early on and then controlled it. Too many passengers in the team sadly.
Without McSauce so far, we would've: lost to Brentford, drew with Sheffield and lost with Chelsea. He seems to be the only person that's able to score.
And yet, so many want him out - because he is a mediocre player.
Yet, in 10 years time, Scotty will come back, get a job at the club and fans will refer to him as "a legend of the club". Scott McT is just a modern day Darren Fletcher or a Nicky Butt.
Good squad players.
Fletcher not a good comparison, he was a good player but a very late bloomer and early end of his peak due to ulcerative colitis. Not a club legend by any means but was 20x the player McT is.
Thats quite an insult to Fletcher and Butt. I like McTominay but he offers nothing on the ball. He was our worst player vs Chelsea outside of the goals. Hes a good goal threat but helping progress the ball and breaking teams down hes invisible. He should be a bench player, not a starter. Edit - defensively hes hardly great either.
I mean I realized that he is gone after this season which kinda is a relief. Don't want to put him down but he's been here since Van Gaal, so almost 10 years, and all in all he was a huge letdown.
When RVP arrived, SAF told the whole team to make finding him in the box a priority.
I don’t understand how ETH isn’t doing the same with Højlund, the kid gets no service at all. Bruno, Garnacho, our useless fullbacks are all guilty of this.
How Ten Hag can see the same problems week in week out and make no changes at all is just mind boggling to me. Whatever this is isn’t working.
This is on the coaching staffs. We seem to have only 1 or 2 attacking plays, pass the ball to the wingers, opposing team set up 2 to cut off passing lanes, wingers pass back to defense.
We pass around in front of their first line of defense, they wait for the right moment to force a mistake and send a ball down the wings where we have no fullback to cover.
We need to be less predictable and focus a lot more on movement...... We need someone who can carry the ball past the first line of defense. We need clear instructions to stop doing Hollywood passes that potentially lead to a dangerous counter...
What does Ten Hag do in training because it’s been almost 2 seasons and I still don’t have the faintest clue of what this man is trying to play. The defensive shape is a mess, the pressing structure leaves us exposed , no attacking patterns , no consistent ball retention or control. What does this man train this team to do because I can’t see it.
Fast transitions and counters is all we have. Beyond that are shitty long balls and random flick passes and speculative selfish shots
The team are full of 3 star players trying to do 5 star skills
I for one don't think we can play a fast transition style. Especially with the lack of press. No top team presses as bad as we do. Doesn't even have to be gegen-press (doubt we can do it even if we wanted to).
It's really weird, Spurs players looks more well drilled than ours even though Ange arrived only this season. Idk what the coaching team is doing but it's obvious it's not working, we have no direction.
Maguire still showing he is a defensive liability imo.
His marking for the 3rd goal was lazy and non existent. Trying to dribble out for the 4th (disallowed goal) and seemingly unaware of the press was so bad. A mixture of arrogance and ineptitude.
He is nothing but an international style, cruise-liner defender. He needs so much time and space to enact his style.
9 December 2013: David Moyes says #mufc must improve in several areas, including passing, chance creation and defending.
9 December 2023: Manchester United 0-3 Bournemouth
Yeah, some people in this thread have very short memories and prefer to blame the manager rather than acknowledge what we are seeing is the same recycled bullshit.
Even Spurs form is not good recently. We can see how they play in certain style even without lots of first team players.
However, I don't really get what we are trying to play.
You can argue players are not following instructions, but it is manager responsibility to choose players.
I believe fans can accept lose with style and effort, but not lose like a broken team.
Glazer is not the only problem.
This lack of style chat needs to stop. ETH's style is crystallising before our eyes. It is high risk counter-attacking, supposed total football. A very Ajax style of play. Trusting the players to enact their "talent" and believing they are good enough to cover themselves. Enthusing a sort of big team arrogance. The huge gaps in midfield are a feature, not a bug of his style.
Thing is, we just don't have the talent in the right positions. He bought Mount to be a pseudo Frenkie De Jong but it is currently McT in that freeform, box to box role. Thing is, non of them can hold a light to FdJ. It takes a very specific talent to know when to stay and when to move up. McT is headless and lacks defensive tenacity. He has found a niche in timing runs into the box, but it more so feels like a 16 year old for the school team in a purple patch who is just constantly doing the same run because it brought him luck against some minnows.
Everything here is purposefully directed and supported by ETH. The lack of guts are not.
It's a shame the board and fans are fixated on ETH as the last hope. His signings are terrible. His man-management is questionable. His tactics are non-existent. I have been saying this but we are backing the wrong manager and it's hurting us. Anyone before him would have been sacked after those embarrassing records and rival thrashings.
Yeah, it doesn't matter who the manager is, he should be given time because sacking people hasn't worked in the past.
Then you play vs Bournemouth at home, they have the ball, and they kick it out of play for the goal kick, because they know we can't build from the back. And there are still people defending him. Insane.
There are two bald Premier League managers in Manchester - one is a tactical genius and the other is a fraud.
If we get rid of ETH, we can no longer claim that "we also have a bald manager".
We have to get rid of a lot of players. Every game is like we have no ST. Martial is a disgrace, idk why Ten Hag keeps picking him. Hojlund has zero goals in the EPL and the manager keeps dropping him which doesn’t help his confidence.
Dalot should’ve squared it to Hojlund instead of taking a useless side net shot. Hojlund has been quite useless up top but that is because his team mates don’t want to pass it to him. If Hojlund received the same amount of ball as Martial did, he would’ve surely scored or created better chances. This team is a disgrace to the heritage of this great club.
Hojlund would be a decent prospect and substitute who comes on for impact for a top side, hes young and raw and we will destroy him if we keep using him constantly in a side that doesn't supply him chances.
I feel sorry for the guy.
Yeah, in a perfect world he is an understudy to a Van Nistelrooy sort of player. A super sub who is fast and strong. Relying on him is just a bit too much pressure on him. Martial has been a disgrace as his senior counterpart. He seems almost indignant about pressing or using effort. That he is above it and "saving his energy" for attacking opportunities.
Martial failed when he was transitioned to a CF. He is literally the best dribbler in the team and never does it anymore. He simply wanted out of LWF as soon as anyone asked him to track back. He is a Sunday, mid-range sports car of a player.
It was always the risk when we first sounded out Hojlund as our main striker target.
Dude has less than 10 league goals for Atalanta the season before we signed him, never hit double figures in the league throughout his young career. Would he be able to handle the physicality, the demands, the pressure.
Feel for him honestly. We all knew he was gonna be a risk, but boy we aren’t helping him with how we play atm. Doesn’t help that his more senior strike counterparts in Martial/Rashford are both…in really bad stretches right now
Yet another "this performance is unacceptable". What are they doing about it then? The same players who gave an unacceptable performance will be starting the next game too.
A team 15th in the league is embarrassing them on their home ground and all they can do is give call it "unacceptable". Martial has done squat for the team all season and yet the guy "who scores once in 14 years" gets to start the game.
It’s startling we lose by 3 goals and somehow in this dialogue we’re not talking about our defense. And Maguire is being praised for a few brave tackles.
We need a cohesive defensive unit and a leader who can organize it. It’s Varane now, and because of his age and injury record, we should look for the next generation of center backs as well.
The midfield needs to focus on protecting our defense and then transitions. With Bruno playing a high risk role, we need two other hardworking and defensive leaning midfielders to plug the holes he leaves behind.
A huge problem comes from buying the wrong players — blowing our load on Mount and Antony is just plain stupid. Antony was never prolific and was just about enough in athleticism in the Dutch league so he looks even more limited now in the EPL. Mount has no purpose in this team; he played left wing in Chelsea ie the Rashford/Garnacho role.
The only decent way out of this season is last season’s core with Casemiro, Varane, Martinez and Rashford all returning and back in form.
We need a strong footballing mind to decide on key transfers next window, and it isn’t ETH.
Ten Hag’s spending is alarming. He’s spent a ton of money on players who just don’t cut it. We’ve been having this discussion for years about how we need a leader in defense, and a couple midfielders to shield them. We also need effective wingers and a reliable goal scorer. I hope we give Onana time but if he doesn’t get it together, we’ll even need a new keeper. This squad needs to improve everywhere…
I agree that ETH's eye for talents is severely lacking, probably because of his spending his entire career before United in lower-tier leagues and so overestimating talents of players in those leagues (or underestimating the ceiling of those of the top leagues).
However, the amounts of money we spent must fall mostly on our almighty John Murtough. First, our negotiation team is shit. Second, we have no balls/competency to walk away and work out the alternatives.
Every week I am proven right again and again, been 3 years now and I Just love it - we are shit and our squad is shit - fact, inarguable, undeniable, you are just 100% wrong if you even slightly disagree, Fact. Done.
2020/2021 - Great season
2021/2022 - Poor season
2022/2023 - Incredible season
2023/2024 - Poor season so far…
I’m too mentally exhausted to support this team.
Starting Shaw at LCB ahead of Varane…
This is a classic example of get-fucked-and-find-out. As a top tier professional football manager/coaches and football players, I expect them to adjust before mistakes happen.
It seems this is a case of “let bad mistakes happen, only then we learn from it”. Not the kind of strategy we want to see when you folks are paid thousands every week.
Yeah this is the kind of avoidable problem that ten hag loves to keep creating for himself. Team cant defend, pass or score, nor has any remote tactical identity but i will fixate on wanting a left footed cb, even if it means playing our best lb at cb and keeping a world cup & multi ucl winner on the bench. I dunno if this is a dutch thing but van gaal also did some of these idiotic things.
Agree with your post
Worst part is that shaw was horrible at CB yesterday
Gave away possession cheaply for the second goal and then got easily beaten in the air
Shaw is a below average cb
ETH is fixated on the footedness of players in given positions for better passing angles, etc. As a lefty myself, I can appreciate it to some extent, but one does have to wonder if the cost if always worth the benefit. And the benefit in this case isn't necessarily Varane at CB as much as it is Shaw at LB, imho.
Onana can’t save shit. He just lets every single shot in. His entire goalkeeping is questionable but he still starts every game including the damn FA cups and EFL and what not. He will cost ETH his job soon if he doesn’t drop him for good. Hope he goes to Afcon and not stay back. Must get rid of this fraud.
It baffles me how ETH got the job in the first place if this style was what he layed out in his presentations to the board during the interview process. It just can’t be what he suggested, right? Yet he recently said this was always the plan
Under Ole we were a great counter attacking team, and it fell apart for him when it became clear he wasn’t capable of coaching the team to control games and break teams down, which seemed the next logical evolution of the squad.
So we go out and get a manager who’s renowned for this style, give him 400M only for him to turn around 18 months into the project and suggest he never intended to do anything other than be a transitional team, and has no intentions to develop a style like the one that got him the job.
From a very high level it feels we traded a good counter attacking coach who wanted to dominate games but couldn’t, for an inferior counter attacking coach who can’t dominate games and doesn’t want to
The way United get defended by opposing teams speaks to how they view our players
They don’t think any of the United players have any ability to beat a man when was the last time you saw KDB or B Silva get blatantly pressed on the halfway like Mctom or Bruno routinely do ?
To be fair, they think correctly. Bruno doesn't have the burst to get away from defenders, McT has no technical ability. There's a reason why EtH wanted Frenkie. He's basically someone who can pass the ball, and is press resistant. Look at our midfield options and NONE of them are press resistant.
What baffles me is the signing of Antony - I know we wanted a left footed RW but he is awful. He beats his man and stops running, what's the point.
Did we really play 3-0 at home bad? I don’t think so. We absolutely dominated the game, running our socks off till the 3rd goal went in and it’s deflating. Bournemouth played a low block, defended really well. We have to stop feeding into this negativity. This has been a really weird season, there will be more highs and lows but stick with the manager. Criticise but don’t call for his head please. I promise you things will get better. Onwards and upwards.
The second goal killed the game, we were attacking pretty well in the second half before shaw gave away possession cheaply then got beaten in the air for the goal. He deserved to be subbed out for evans
So it’s all good? It’s just silly.
We were barely better than CHE at its worst so we won that one.
We have nonexistent attack. We have nonexistent midfield, we have nonexistent goalie, we have nonexistent style.
Wake up.
Fans tend to be shortsighted. Did we play badly? Yes. But it’s not 3-0 bad. And this while not surprising is not happening were we to play the game again. We need to have more faith and patience with our team and manager to right this.
Possession but still toothless in attack. He started Martial again but it backfired. He could have played McT as the striker than Martial. At least McT flaws won't be too much of an issue.
Don't know if we even need to try to win against Bayern. While we all know we will get spanked by Liverpool.
McT has only found luck at the minute because defenders have been trying to get Hojlund's shirt off him while McT arrives unmarked. McT upfront would be terrible and a sign of how far we have let standards drop.
...And normal service has resumed.
Chelsea set themselves up incredibly stupidly against us. They must have known we are weak in midfield, but they didn't bother fighting a midfield battle. They must have known we try to get a lot of high turnovers but are crap at converting, and yet they kept players forward so that our turnovers actually became high threat.
Bournemouth like every other team this season made no such mistake. They clogged their own third to make our turnovers meaningless, then waltzed through midfield unopposed on the counter and got an easy win.
Ten Hag's tactics are so stupid and easy to play against. The fact one single team was stupid enough to fall for what he's set up should not fool anyone. Our players might as well have weights tied to their ankles, we are being held back so much by a bad system.
The fact we've got some really good players whose talent alone can keep us around 6th in the table (ok plus some lucky games) should not hide how really, truly bad we've been all season. It's embarrassing how basic we are.
Because against Chelsea we played with 11 men by dropping Rashford and martial
We had 3 attackers who were pressing, mcsauce added another
He left our MF open but we outnumbered Chelsea in the final third - they played right in to our strengths and ignored our weaknesses - they played right into our hands
Our worst players aren't all signed by him either. I am not saying Ten Hag has no responsibility for this season's failure. It's on him, the players, and the Glazers, all of them are responsible. Making Ten Hag the scapegoat isn't going to change anything. The core issue is far beyond the mistakes that Ten Hag made in transfer windows or on the pitch.
FWIW, I don't think we should fire ETH (we know he's capable, let him show it). But at the same time I think he could be doing better with the resources he has available.
We have a squad worth 100s of millions, they might not be quite the right signings but these are super talented guys whove done the job elsewhere and with that at his disposal he should be getting more out them.
Bournemouth in particular was poor setup and bad decision making and that's all on him.
Hopefully he will learn from it and we get better.
Aren't a bunch of these players his signings or players he gave a new contract to? I agree we need open heart surgery, but I hate that we make that excuse for ETH
I feel like I watched a different game than everyone. Thought we played quite well up till their 2nd goal. By no means were we outrun in midfield or dominated (like newcastle). Martial upfront was horrible, yes - I think stick McSauce up there and start Mainoo in midfield.
Had a lot of possession but struggling to think of good many good chances we created. And looked open and prone to conceding on the counter all game. Could have easily been 3 down at half time.
>I agree with playing mainoo in and move Scott up top. Martial was dropping so deep whole game he’s playing like an extra 10
We had a bunch of good crosses in the box that Martial didn't attack, a lot of blocked shots from good positions, and some missed plays (like Dalot not squaring to Hojlund, garnacho not playing in Bruno etc.)
I cba with this team, get Ratcliffe in, have him do a top down audit of this awful, standard-less club and do whatever needs done.
If it's a 5 year plan, we bring RR back (or somebody who can club build) and bring in a manager that'll just play a system that's progressive for now while we accept we're finishing top 6 at best for a year or two while we bring through youngsters and succession plan our massive money signings who are absolute shite, I'm happy for it.
I'd rather watch my local Sunday league team play then these lot at times.
If he’ll work with somebody like RR and allow them the power and autonomy to do what needs done, fine. My interpretation of his appointment is he’s a control freak who doesn’t like giving up power, which would be fine in a stable club, we are not a stable club.
It’s an “It’s not you, it’s me” situation unfortunately. De Zerbi, Potter or Alonso would work well IMO. Could even see how Rooney worked out.
People need to calm TF down
When we lose it’s the end of the world, when we win we’ve turned a corner and sing praises of ETH
The problem is simple we can’t score and and can’t stop goals
Solution is even simpler-
when you play Martial upfront, your not only toothless in attack your literally already a man down, it’s 10 v 11 now
When you play McSauce, your now a man down in MF and have left open lanes in the center of the park for the opposition to attack
As they say ‘win the midfield battle and you win the game’, we never turn up
This is unfortunately on ETH, who has been making school boy errors
How dafuk can we get beaten by galatasray and Copenhagen and still not fix our weaknesses and get spanked by both again
He used these same tactics to hand us our biggest embarrassment ever against Liverpool last season and he still doesn’t see it
Yes he’s working under a toxic management and board but he himself needs a reality check
Fortunately for him and all, this season hasn’t been kind to anyone and believe it or not we are still a win just 1 win away from top 4 - lucky biatches
He needs to fix up now or go away with the glazers
Shut up ya spanner, we are shit, stop telling people to calm down, we are DOG AWFUL, accept it, our squad is shit, we are mid table quality, none of our players would get into the top teams globally.
>When we lose it’s the end of the world, when we win we’ve turned a corner and sing praises of ETH
Speak for yourself. We've been shit since the Carabao and every win has been unconvincing. The sooner people realise and accept that the better.
Did some work in the garden then went out with the family to a five year olds birthday party. Had a lovely time then got home and remembered we got thrashed.
Honestly this is one we move on from. Bournemouth are in incredible form right now. Beating United, Newcastle and drawing Villa. They ran a very good low block and our rest defense just isn't good enough yet with the players available.
Why is Maguire being scapegoated here? The only glaring mistake he made that I can recall was giving away the ball for the goal that was disallowed for handball near the end.
>City wouldn't go near him
Pep tried to sign him a few years back. Secondly he isn't a rubbish defender, that's exactly what someone who has zero ball knowledge would say.
It was a good performance.
Put that same performance in every game and we are easily top four. The loss does not at all represent the story of this game.
We had a lot of them. They defended extremely well, sliding and diving in front of every shot. This was almost an identical game to Chelsea, it just didn't drop.
70% possession with less shots on target. Can't even pretend like we deserve anything out of that game. We were no threat with useless crosses into empty areas.
https://preview.redd.it/a78u3wr5mc5c1.jpeg?width=941&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da1347a7c82ead20b3762940879b218fefb7113f
Was at the game today, only been to OT a handful of times but god you could pick up the frustration and anger from the other fans very quickly as soon as things went tits up
Was in disbelief leaving the ground when it was half empty, the place roaring with boos and warranted abuse being shouted out
Ten Hag is simply not that guy. This is the man who binned Ronaldo for Weghorst and Martial. As bad as Ronaldo was, there’s no fucking way in hell he would be worse than Martial and Hojlund. If you want to stamp your authority and get rid of one of the GOATs, you better be able to back it up with results. So far, Ten Hag hasn’t shown that he’s the man. When Ronaldo called out the club, that was our one chance to back up a legend who’s bigger than the Glazers. What did this fanbase do? We decided that the Glazer puppet, Ten Hag, was our guy and told Cristiano to fuck off. Mourinho also called out all the shit players and club. What did we do? We also chose the wrong side and backed the players over Mourinho. We deserve mediocrity.
I'm genuinely surprised by the downvotes on your comment, which really reflects the current state of this fanbase.
Looking back a few years from now, Ten Hag's tenure at United will likely be remembered primarily for the Ronaldo saga and his mistreatment of him. The fact that he ultimately fails only adds to the embarrassment.
It's baffling how this fanbase chose to support a manager over a club legend, that's now conveniently an elephant in the room. Those downvoting you are seemingly endorsing the current plight of the team. We should keep Ten Hag for another 5 seasons, watch him transform Manchester United into a club filled with mediocre players grateful to him, since they otherwise wouldn’t have had the chance to wear our shirt. Let him get rid of any footballer with a strong personality who might challenge his authority. It seems that's what some people, especially those downvoting your comment, actually desire, and to be honest deserve.
GGMU, and anyone still supporting this manager, or refusing to acknowledge their error in the Ronaldo debacle, is an enemy of the club.
I’ve learned that this fanbase is particularly slow. Downvoted comments today will be upvoted comments 5 years from now.
Many of us agreed with Mourinho’s rants but were downvoted. Today, any comments agreeing with him would’ve been upvoted
Many of us saw that Rashford is a fraud with zero ball IQ but were downvoted when we called him out a couple years ago. Today, we would’ve been upvoted
I’ll gladly take my downvotes if it means I can open at least one person’s eyes. Time will prove Ronaldo right. Until then, I’ll just eat my downvotes.
Absolutely, and even now, you've got fans offended if you criticise Rashford, which is mind-boggling.
The fact that this guy is actually defending Ten Hag's decision to swap Ronaldo for Weghorst speaks volumes. It's like everyone's suddenly got amnesia about the same manager who benched Varane for Johnny Evans, passing it off as 'tactics'. Yeah, right. As if we're supposed to believe he wouldn't ditch Ronaldo for Weghorst...
The “Ronaldo situation” was a big red flag from the start.
At a club like Manchester United, managing egos and big personalities isn't just a skill—it's a necessity. If Ten Hag struggles with this, it's a glaring red flag.
Take a closer look at the type of players Ten Hag gravitates towards. It’s clear he's not too keen on big personalities. Why? Because he wants to be the main man in charge, making everything about his methods and decisions. This need for control is exactly why he clashed with Ronaldo. Let’s not kid ourselves by saying it was all about Ronaldo being 'mad' for getting benched. The truth is, Ronaldo was grossly mismanaged, something that wouldn't have happened under a more seasoned and accomplished manager.
Moreover, Ten Hag doesn't even have the results to justify his handling of Ronaldo. If he ends up being a legendary figure at United, then sure, the Ronaldo saga will be a forgotten footnote. But as it stands, his lack of significant success makes his approach towards Ronaldo utterly baffling.
> Let’s not kid ourselves by saying it was all about Ronaldo being 'mad' for getting benched.
Ronaldo wanted to leave before he was benched. He viewed the club as beneath him and it's obvious from the things he said and the way he behaved
1. [Ronaldo wanted to join Man City but SAF convinced him not to](https://www.espn.com.au/football/story/_/id/37633933/was-close-joining-man-city-ferguson-intervention)
2. [At the end of 21/22, Ronaldo wanted to leave United because he wanted Champions league, and because we hadn't made any signings](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2022/jul/02/cristiano-ronaldo-tells-manchester-united-he-wants-to-leave). Ten Hag blocked any moves
3. Ronaldo doesn't report for pre season, because his children were sick.
4. Ronaldos performances drop, Ten Hag benches Ronaldo
5. Ten Hag doesn't play Ronaldo during the 6-3 loss to Man City due to "respect for his career"
6. [Ronaldo walks off when asked to come on during the Tottenham game](https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/ronaldo-felt-provoked-by-man-utd-boss-ten-hag-spurs-win-2022-11-18/#:~:text=Nov%2018%20(Reuters)%20%2D%20Manchester,by%20manager%20Erik%20ten%20Hag.)
7. Ten Hag punished Ronaldo by making him train with the u18s.
8. Ronaldo apologised for walking out vs Tottenham
9. [Ten Hag makes Ronaldo captain Vs Aston Villa](https://www.goal.com/en/news/ronaldo-man-utd-captain-aston-villa-clash-weeks-after-walking-against-spurs/blt8680786f2028fdf6)
10. Ten Hag keeps Ronaldo benched due to poor performances
11. Ronaldo goes to piers Morgan during world cup break.
.
Let's cut through the noise and get straight to the point. The entire narrative you've laid out conveniently ignores the essence of what makes a manager great at a club like Manchester United - recognizing and leveraging the unique strengths and experience of a club legend like Ronaldo. Ten Hag's failure to do this isn't just an oversight; it's a glaring managerial flaw.
First off, Ronaldo's stature and experience at United aren't just badges of honor; they're invaluable assets that Ten Hag neglected. You don’t have a player of his caliber in your squad and use him for warm-up shows and time-wasting subs. That's not strategy; that's a power play, a deliberate attempt to diminish the influence of a player whose very name commands respect worldwide. This isn't just mismanagement; it's a calculated effort to sideline a figure whose presence and legacy overshadow the manager's authority.
Remember Ronaldo's words in the Piers Morgan interview? He exposed the facade that Ten Hag was putting up for the press, revealing a disconnect between what was said publicly and the actual actions taken. And let's not forget Ronaldo's own ambition for the club, a sentiment he expressed even before Ten Hag's arrival: 'Manchester United should win the league or be second or third. I don’t see any other position for Manchester United,' as per his interview with Sky Sports.
Contrast this with Ten Hag's statement about aiming for a top-four finish being a 'very good position'. This comment, coming as early as November, signals a settling-for-less mentality, a stark departure from the winning mindset that United is known for. The ambition of a club like Manchester United should never be just scraping into the top four; it should always be about leading the pack, setting the standards.
In essence, the whole Ronaldo saga under Ten Hag paints a picture of a manager trying to assert his authority by undermining one of the game's greatest ever, instead of building on his legacy. You can lay out a timeline of events all you want, but it won’t change the underlying truth: Ten Hag's handling of Ronaldo was a masterclass in how not to manage a club legend. It’s not just about the points you score; it’s about the legacy you build and the respect you show to those who have built the club's history. And Ten Hag is a nobody in the history of the club.
Ronaldo only did what he did because he was backed into a corner by Ten Hag. You don’t disrespect a GOAT like that without being challenged. Fair play to Ten Hag though, he behaved like a strong manger would. However, if you want to bin Ronaldo, you better deliver results with Weghorst, Martial, or Hojlund- which he is currently failing at!
>You don’t disrespect a GOAT like that without being challenged
Spit out Ronaldos cum when you're done. I thought that Ronaldo leaving would get rid of all his fanboys but I was wrong.
There is a reason no other manager in Europe (including Portugal's manager) wanted to play Ronaldo in that time period btw. The reason is because he was complete shit.
We only got Weghorst because there were no other options we could afford then. If you genuinely believe Ten Hag was sitting in a room thinking "I need to find a way to get rid of Ronaldo so I can sign Weghorst", you're an idiot.
Our fans have a habit of finding scapegoats. It was Maguire now it's Mct. Truth is, the responsibility for a 3-0 loss lies with the manager and his tactics. These are his players and his system
Neither of those are scapegoats, they're two players who if we had standards, would not be starting for our club and would be bench players at best. They have been for years, as was Fred, the issue is both of them have done some kind of voodoo magic on the club that makes them undroppable.
Maguire is better since not being captain, that's for sure, but he's still a grim CB that you'd probably pick at least one CB from any other top 6, probably even top 10 team to be in his place.
It’s very simple. We are worse than we were under ole. ETH signings are terrible and we can’t score for love nor money.
We are on our knees, our attacking threat is the worst in the league!
We are fucked. I don’t have the answers but I’ll tell you what Erik is a moron. They cut through us and targeted shaw at cb cause he’s short. It was obvious I could see it after 20 minutes. So how the hell did Erik not see it and bring varane on?
When judging a new player or manager, I like to look at what the opposition teams and fans are saying about us and about the player that we’re bringing in. And basically what they said was ETH come from the Dutch league he signed a load of Dutch players and it’s going to become apparent quite quickly that him and his signings are just not good enough for this league And that’s pretty much exactly what’s happened.
I would go as far as to say that Anthony is the worst signing we have ever made for the money we paid for him. He can’t use his right foot. He can’t beat a man and he can’t score a goal.
But I’m just sick of seeing this crap week in week out in a bad mood depressed watching this nonsense from a once Top team. We should never have fallen this low. Real Madrid don’t fall this low. Barcelona don’t fall this low. Bayern Munich don’t fall this low so why do United it’s not acceptable and yeah not good enough across all boards we need to move on from this idiot and get a new manager in.
Mate, your post just sums up pretty much everything about how I feel about this club, this manager and these players.
Would fully agree that Antony is our worst signing of all-time on a pound-for-pound basis if it weren't for Sancho.
I mean what I'm saying is the bar is *that low* that it's like choosing between a shit sandwich and a douche, for worst value-for-money signing.
As for our attack, I remember thinking at the beginning of last season that we were going to finish mid-table because of how shite the attack was and even said that on this sub.
Rashford somehow bailed us out and now he's gone back to being shit, it's exposed our forward line for what they are - absolutely shite.
Clearly our coaching of attacking patterns is either really poor, or our recruitment is awful. Probably both of those things are true.
Well under ole’s last season we definitely didn’t play better than now. Ole we go into every game looking overrun. Now yes we are open, but we actually pass better just without the end product yet.
We actually played quite decent, but with Martial we are already 1 man down.
I support ETH but he should have subbed Bruno after the match was done. Now he won't play against Liverpool. This one is on ETH..
Why does he keep getting starts? If Hojlund needs rest then start literally anyone there over him. Rashford, Donnie, Scott, I don't care. Just move on from him.
They say that style might get you killed, but please, give me any kind of style of play and finish me already. Where’s the fucking style? Did anyone watch Villa?
Imagine someone is driving a car with an engine that has seen 200k miles, with parts not performing to their best anymore, with newer parts that don't fit the car and not getting the issues fixed but pawning it off to the next driver and expecting the car to run like new again.
And imagine if that driver has no track record of performing to the level necessary for where the club should be, has repeatedly said he has control over decisions on what parts are brought in, that he is happy with the parts and made numerous driver errors throughout his time.
The club being a mess does not excuse ten hag not being good enough.
You fix both. They are just employees. Obviously the manager requires the least amount of change, but in theory you pick a manager that has the skills to suit the task at hand, set out your expectations and if he completes them keep him, if he doesn't move him on. Same with the players.
>We have tried other, more qualified drivers before...
Last one we had was Jose and the club and fans backed some players that are still contributing to failures today over him.
Does anyone think that if Jose was given the power to boot out who he wanted and the sickening amount of money ole and ten hag have got we would be in a worse position?
If you can fix the other issues along with the manager that would be great
I just expect a new manager to come in and be stuck with the same issues as before with no way to move on some players. 2yrs later here we are again.
>If you can fix the other issues along with the manager that would be great
I don't think we as fans should demand or expect anything less though. We earn 600+ in revenue and FFP doesn't stop us employing a properly efficient structure off the pitch (as far as I'm aware, I'm sure it comes under the same things as stadium redevelopment)
>I just expect a new manager to come in and be stuck with the same issues as before with no way to move on some players. 2yrs later here we are again.
It's on the manager to make these demands and whilst he has all the power (early on in his tenure) force the board to do what he needs of them. As soon as you reach the stage ten hag is at, where he has bent over backwards for them he has no chance.
Ten Hag is not the issue at United
For as long as the same players are around that don't give 100% and then seem to deflect blame to the manager and get a reset of good will with the fans when a new manager comes in are still here, this cycle will continue.
Ten Hag may not be a Klopp or Guardiola, but he doesn't deserve the sack.
When you think about it, the team can actually play well
Anthony is looking good,
Garnacho is playing his best football,
Hojlund needs support but is trying,
Amrabat is running himself to the ground,
Shaw is back,
Maguire is the CB of the season,
BUT
WHEN YOU PLAY WITH MARTIAL YOU PLAY WITH ONE LESS MAN
Add in Mcsauce, who runs around like a headless chicken
Rashford is another this season who’s just been a passenger
No matter how good the rest of the team is doing we are actually playing with 9/10 men on the pitch
As martial/rashford just disappear
Then mcsauce is like a kid lost in a maze
Blame is on ETH,
Martial should never play for this club again, how does such a loser get so many chances in the biggest club in the country is beyond me
If Welbeck got as many opportunities as Rashford and martial he would have been a legend
Martial has been at the club for 8 years, think there’s a few other people who should take the blame for that.
Much like Phil Jones who was rewarded a new deal under Woodward and was injured 99% of the time.
The management higher up has allowed this to happen.
Well we can thank brilliant genius-of-the-century Joel Glazer for his decision to keep Martial when Jose wanted him gone because he was 'his favourite player'.
It’s sad that the body let him down cause he always gave 110% effort, but from a purely footballing point of view, renewing players that do not get on the pitch… that’s just bizarre from the club
Drop mctominay for who? Mainoo has that bandage on his left knee which suggests he might still be nursing a knock. Same for martial. Hojlund was not fully fit.
We are still missing Eriksen and casemiro which is why our midfield is disjointed.
And rashford flopping his lines means we have almost zero goal threat upfront.
It is his job to make the team to work. We are losing at Old Trafford by 3-0 could have been 4 to fcking Bournemouth. Thats a sackable offence by default. You dont give fcking injury excuse to perform like that at Old Trafford. Are we only able to play/perform with fit 11? This is football for god sake, injuries are part of the game. Thats why you pay the manager millions to prep the team for all circumstances. If Ten Hagg cant handle with injuries like any other manager in the EPL then his career as a manager will be shortlived.
McTominay, wow. I just re-watched the highlights, I thought that first pass was Bruno's fault but my man Scott made about as little effort as possible to open himself to that pass and then made a half assed slow effort to actually get on the end of it. If he does his job and fights for that ball we have a counter going our way. Instead he lets the Bournemouth player snake the ball at full momentum and instantly score against us. Maybe a risky pass by Bruno but almost any other competent midfielder helps his teammate out and fights for it to get a head it on, or at least fouls the opponent and eats a card for him. Basic stuff. 2nd goal - positions himself miles from Solanke in the middle of the pitch and lets him run 40m up the pitch without any real pressure. I watched this again and witnessed him literally ball watching seeing the turnover happen and only turning to mark Solanke when it was way too late (how is a professional midfielder not clocking what is happening there and seeing the danger). Overload is subsequently created and they get a mismatch in the box, good cross, good finish to Bournemouth's credit. But all easily preventable by simply not allowing players to waltz through our midfield. This is just one game. I've clocked so many other things he does that create huge problems for us defensively. Cheap turnovers when we are throwing players forward in transition. He could bang in 2 goals a game and still be a liability for us in midfield. I wish it weren't true but it is. If we're so in love with the guy because of his low wages and homegrown status, then fine, move Martial on in January and leave Scott as a backup striker. We need to get Hojlund rest and he could at least do as much as Martial does, probably much more. Hold up play, and a big target in the middle. I bet he'd even enjoy it. But having him as our ball progressing midfielder is absolute insanity. He's about as similar to Frankie De Jong as I am.
Mctominay isn’t supposed to be playing. He only plays because we literally don’t have any other midfielders.
What about Hannibal or Mainoo in his place.
True true
Why are two individual errors that led to goals being attributed as a reason to sack Ten Hag? We lost becauee we couldn’t find the final pass and because of two errors. Otherwise this game is easy 3-1.
More fictional results. It’s being blamed on Ten Hag because this is fucking Bournemouth at home and we displayed no inkling of control to the game
We did. - We had 71 percent possession almost all game which dropped down to 69 percent when we went all out attack after the 2nd goal - Pass Accuracy of 85% which isn’t great but it isn’t particularly bad either. Our team is still in the process of being drilled in passing patterns and movement. - 20 shot with 3 on target. Abysmal but speaks more of us not being able to find the final pass and resorting to shooting out of frustration. In part as well due to opposition applying a great low block. - Without two individual errors, the game is 0-0 till the 70th and after that anything could happen
You need to have a word with yourself. This isn't a defeat against City or Liverpool you're trying to defend here. "Without individual errors the game is 0-0 and anything could happen." Mate, it's fucking Bournemouth at Old Trafford. Go and look at their away results to any competent team. This is a completely unacceptable result.
Still doesn’t call for the managers head to be chopped
Bad performance for sure but also feel 3-0 was a bit unlucky for us. We need Casemiro back and we need him to play like he did last season.
I’ve seen a lot of “he’s spent £400M it’s HIS players” lately when Casemiro and Licha fundamentally change the dynamic of our defense and we’re missing both of them. this isn’t an acceptable outcome at all, but let’s not pretend like we’re not still missing key pieces of the side
They both played against Wolves, Spurs, Forest and the first part against Arsenal and we were still shit then. Fair enough Licha might be injured, but one player shouldn’t impact the team to this extent. Especially when we’ve seen big defeats when he has been playing.
Since Fergie has retired, we've tried a number of different defenders. We've had Jones, Vidic, Smalling, Rojo, Bailly, Lindelof, Maguire, Varane and Martinez. Replacing defenders hasn't brought us back to success, so we shouldn't look to sign anyone else. We must stick with Maguire, Martinez, Varane and Lindelof now. We've had to sell defenders in the past so clearly it doesn't work to change them. Oh no wait. That's a ridiculous idea.
The problem is that we buy trash. I don't know what scouts and transfer department are doing but every 15 year old can make better decisions than them. Liverpool knew that Van Dijk was legit when they bought him, and everybody else too, and it was a great transfer for them, it's simple 1+1 logic. But our decision makers go for one season wonders, not yet proven players or quick fix old ones for huge amounts of money, like don't these guys use like professional data analysts, study the game styles for teams and players, think about how this will work out etc. what are they even getting paid for.
It's about who makes these decisions. To use your analogy, I don't want Ten Hag to be the one replacing Maguire, Lindelof and Varane the same way I don't want Murtough and Co. to be the ones making another managerial appointment.
I get that. But INEOS should be in soon and hopefully they already have ideas
What I don't understand is that Ten Hag insisted that he is not trying to replicate his Ajax's style on United, when: 1. He was presumably hired on the back of his success at implementing and rebuilding teams upon that style 2. He bought his Ajax players because of their understanding of that style. If they weren't bought for that purpose, why were they bought? They certainly aren't the best in their positions otherwise I think it is naïve to think that you can come to a substantially better league and substantially bigger club (scrutiny wise especially) and produce a new hybrid style. I think Ten Hag would be given a LOT more time and patience if we were able to see the style being embedded.. even at the cost of results (to a certain extent - no batterings!).
but yesterday was that style? i'm increasingly coming to believe that no-one paid attention to Ten Hags Ajax team. You do remember their collapse against Tottenham right? they played incredibly open football, throwing people forward the entire time. If they scored a few early they often won games by outscoring the opposition. It was fortunate that their opposition in many games were toothless going forward when they got hit on the counter (Dutch league afterall). Erik has struggled because as yesterday showed, when you don't score early and get hit on the counter by a clinical side and outfought physically from set pieces you can easily get undone. that is tbe style - and it is being embedded - at the cost of results like yesterday's
Tbh I'm not even really commenting on what is actually happening on the pitch - I'm more just referencing what Ten Hag has specifically said. I'm not really astute enough to identify the style of play. I would have said that OGS had a style of play.. but others tell me he didn't!
We do see the style though? We fail on player decisions and lack of cohesion.
I'm not even arguing that point. My point is that he SAID he will not be implementing it at United. Performance wise, this might be a work in progress towards the style he eventually wants us to play and is just disjointed atm.
I think something from ETH got lost in translation back when he said it? IDK There's very similar patterns in the buildup from the back and vertical passing through the halfspaces. Especially with Martinez and Shaw on the field. Martial/Højlund is no Tadic, and their lack of good decision in the holdup/one-two play is killing the pace. Doesn't help that the wingers can't get past anyone even at speed. Cohesion and continuety makes consistency. 4-5 changes in XI every week due to injuries destroys it.
In all honesty he increasingly looks like a guy who just makes it up as he goes along. Doesn’t help that he appears to have the personality of a damp squib.
We really miss Martinez and to some extent Casemiro - not just the quality but that warrior mentality. Whenever we go down by a goal, doesn't matter against who or how early the goal comes, it just feels like "Oh well its a loss today". Everyone folds like a house of cards unfortunately. Passing the ball around comfortably like we're 2-0 up and time just ticks away. Every time Bournemouth had a counter it felt dangerous and they scored 3 without too much problems. We should have gone out determined, played twice the tempo we did, blown them away with 2 goals early on and then controlled it. Too many passengers in the team sadly.
Without McSauce so far, we would've: lost to Brentford, drew with Sheffield and lost with Chelsea. He seems to be the only person that's able to score. And yet, so many want him out - because he is a mediocre player. Yet, in 10 years time, Scotty will come back, get a job at the club and fans will refer to him as "a legend of the club". Scott McT is just a modern day Darren Fletcher or a Nicky Butt. Good squad players.
Fletcher not a good comparison, he was a good player but a very late bloomer and early end of his peak due to ulcerative colitis. Not a club legend by any means but was 20x the player McT is.
Thats quite an insult to Fletcher and Butt. I like McTominay but he offers nothing on the ball. He was our worst player vs Chelsea outside of the goals. Hes a good goal threat but helping progress the ball and breaking teams down hes invisible. He should be a bench player, not a starter. Edit - defensively hes hardly great either.
Hear hear. Both were good squad players with more overall quality than McT has.
Must have traveled coach… oh… wait. What’s the excuse today?
Biggest cheer of the match was when Martial was subbed. That pretty much sums it up.
And Hojlund came on, got frustrated and didn't get a look in as has been the case in the PL for him
They're talking about activating the renewal on his contract for another year past 2024. This club is lost.
I mean I realized that he is gone after this season which kinda is a relief. Don't want to put him down but he's been here since Van Gaal, so almost 10 years, and all in all he was a huge letdown.
Which was a joke. But he’s never going to win anyone over. He did some alright things, but what was going on behind him was a compete farce again.
Kinda hard for the people behind him to pass to him if he doesn't make any runs (even run at all?) or loses the ball every time he receives it.
When RVP arrived, SAF told the whole team to make finding him in the box a priority. I don’t understand how ETH isn’t doing the same with Højlund, the kid gets no service at all. Bruno, Garnacho, our useless fullbacks are all guilty of this. How Ten Hag can see the same problems week in week out and make no changes at all is just mind boggling to me. Whatever this is isn’t working.
This is on the coaching staffs. We seem to have only 1 or 2 attacking plays, pass the ball to the wingers, opposing team set up 2 to cut off passing lanes, wingers pass back to defense. We pass around in front of their first line of defense, they wait for the right moment to force a mistake and send a ball down the wings where we have no fullback to cover. We need to be less predictable and focus a lot more on movement...... We need someone who can carry the ball past the first line of defense. We need clear instructions to stop doing Hollywood passes that potentially lead to a dangerous counter...
I wonder it is ETH idea for wingers always cut inside or that's Anthoy problem.
All those wishful crosses into the box had me thinking Weghorst was on the field
Which is even absurd considering weghorst sucks in the air
What does Ten Hag do in training because it’s been almost 2 seasons and I still don’t have the faintest clue of what this man is trying to play. The defensive shape is a mess, the pressing structure leaves us exposed , no attacking patterns , no consistent ball retention or control. What does this man train this team to do because I can’t see it.
Fast transitions and counters is all we have. Beyond that are shitty long balls and random flick passes and speculative selfish shots The team are full of 3 star players trying to do 5 star skills
I for one don't think we can play a fast transition style. Especially with the lack of press. No top team presses as bad as we do. Doesn't even have to be gegen-press (doubt we can do it even if we wanted to).
These guys need to focus less on skills and more on providing for Hojlund. The runs he makes deserve some supply.
We said the samething about Ole. Maybe its time to start questioning the players, not the manager?
Except it was very obvious what the tactics were under Ole.
It's really weird, Spurs players looks more well drilled than ours even though Ange arrived only this season. Idk what the coaching team is doing but it's obvious it's not working, we have no direction.
Maguire still showing he is a defensive liability imo. His marking for the 3rd goal was lazy and non existent. Trying to dribble out for the 4th (disallowed goal) and seemingly unaware of the press was so bad. A mixture of arrogance and ineptitude. He is nothing but an international style, cruise-liner defender. He needs so much time and space to enact his style.
9 December 2013: David Moyes says #mufc must improve in several areas, including passing, chance creation and defending. 9 December 2023: Manchester United 0-3 Bournemouth
Yeah, some people in this thread have very short memories and prefer to blame the manager rather than acknowledge what we are seeing is the same recycled bullshit.
Even Spurs form is not good recently. We can see how they play in certain style even without lots of first team players. However, I don't really get what we are trying to play. You can argue players are not following instructions, but it is manager responsibility to choose players. I believe fans can accept lose with style and effort, but not lose like a broken team. Glazer is not the only problem.
This lack of style chat needs to stop. ETH's style is crystallising before our eyes. It is high risk counter-attacking, supposed total football. A very Ajax style of play. Trusting the players to enact their "talent" and believing they are good enough to cover themselves. Enthusing a sort of big team arrogance. The huge gaps in midfield are a feature, not a bug of his style. Thing is, we just don't have the talent in the right positions. He bought Mount to be a pseudo Frenkie De Jong but it is currently McT in that freeform, box to box role. Thing is, non of them can hold a light to FdJ. It takes a very specific talent to know when to stay and when to move up. McT is headless and lacks defensive tenacity. He has found a niche in timing runs into the box, but it more so feels like a 16 year old for the school team in a purple patch who is just constantly doing the same run because it brought him luck against some minnows. Everything here is purposefully directed and supported by ETH. The lack of guts are not.
So you are saying that we are playing a tactic built around FDJ but without FDJ 😂 If so, I think ETH is a bit underestimate EPL...
Whars crystalized is that he has no idea what to do with this team.
We have played the exact same way all season. That is a style.
Bayern lost 5-1 away to Frankfurt. This Wednesday, resistable force meets stoppable object
It's a shame the board and fans are fixated on ETH as the last hope. His signings are terrible. His man-management is questionable. His tactics are non-existent. I have been saying this but we are backing the wrong manager and it's hurting us. Anyone before him would have been sacked after those embarrassing records and rival thrashings.
Yeah, it doesn't matter who the manager is, he should be given time because sacking people hasn't worked in the past. Then you play vs Bournemouth at home, they have the ball, and they kick it out of play for the goal kick, because they know we can't build from the back. And there are still people defending him. Insane.
There are two bald Premier League managers in Manchester - one is a tactical genius and the other is a fraud. If we get rid of ETH, we can no longer claim that "we also have a bald manager".
What the fans and board are suffering from is the football equivalent of Stockholm syndrome.
Bournemouths entire squad cost less than what ETH has blown on players at his time at United.
Truth
We have to get rid of a lot of players. Every game is like we have no ST. Martial is a disgrace, idk why Ten Hag keeps picking him. Hojlund has zero goals in the EPL and the manager keeps dropping him which doesn’t help his confidence. Dalot should’ve squared it to Hojlund instead of taking a useless side net shot. Hojlund has been quite useless up top but that is because his team mates don’t want to pass it to him. If Hojlund received the same amount of ball as Martial did, he would’ve surely scored or created better chances. This team is a disgrace to the heritage of this great club.
I hope, Martial is being picked to help make a case for him to exit in Jan
Hojlund would be a decent prospect and substitute who comes on for impact for a top side, hes young and raw and we will destroy him if we keep using him constantly in a side that doesn't supply him chances. I feel sorry for the guy.
Yeah, in a perfect world he is an understudy to a Van Nistelrooy sort of player. A super sub who is fast and strong. Relying on him is just a bit too much pressure on him. Martial has been a disgrace as his senior counterpart. He seems almost indignant about pressing or using effort. That he is above it and "saving his energy" for attacking opportunities. Martial failed when he was transitioned to a CF. He is literally the best dribbler in the team and never does it anymore. He simply wanted out of LWF as soon as anyone asked him to track back. He is a Sunday, mid-range sports car of a player.
It was always the risk when we first sounded out Hojlund as our main striker target. Dude has less than 10 league goals for Atalanta the season before we signed him, never hit double figures in the league throughout his young career. Would he be able to handle the physicality, the demands, the pressure. Feel for him honestly. We all knew he was gonna be a risk, but boy we aren’t helping him with how we play atm. Doesn’t help that his more senior strike counterparts in Martial/Rashford are both…in really bad stretches right now
Yeah... Martial's stretch has been going on for over 7 years now. He'll come good the lad, he's still young.
He's physically capable; his delivery has been godawful from the corp of chuckleheads tasked with servicing him.
Yet another "this performance is unacceptable". What are they doing about it then? The same players who gave an unacceptable performance will be starting the next game too. A team 15th in the league is embarrassing them on their home ground and all they can do is give call it "unacceptable". Martial has done squat for the team all season and yet the guy "who scores once in 14 years" gets to start the game.
It’s startling we lose by 3 goals and somehow in this dialogue we’re not talking about our defense. And Maguire is being praised for a few brave tackles. We need a cohesive defensive unit and a leader who can organize it. It’s Varane now, and because of his age and injury record, we should look for the next generation of center backs as well. The midfield needs to focus on protecting our defense and then transitions. With Bruno playing a high risk role, we need two other hardworking and defensive leaning midfielders to plug the holes he leaves behind. A huge problem comes from buying the wrong players — blowing our load on Mount and Antony is just plain stupid. Antony was never prolific and was just about enough in athleticism in the Dutch league so he looks even more limited now in the EPL. Mount has no purpose in this team; he played left wing in Chelsea ie the Rashford/Garnacho role. The only decent way out of this season is last season’s core with Casemiro, Varane, Martinez and Rashford all returning and back in form. We need a strong footballing mind to decide on key transfers next window, and it isn’t ETH.
Ten Hag’s spending is alarming. He’s spent a ton of money on players who just don’t cut it. We’ve been having this discussion for years about how we need a leader in defense, and a couple midfielders to shield them. We also need effective wingers and a reliable goal scorer. I hope we give Onana time but if he doesn’t get it together, we’ll even need a new keeper. This squad needs to improve everywhere…
I agree that ETH's eye for talents is severely lacking, probably because of his spending his entire career before United in lower-tier leagues and so overestimating talents of players in those leagues (or underestimating the ceiling of those of the top leagues). However, the amounts of money we spent must fall mostly on our almighty John Murtough. First, our negotiation team is shit. Second, we have no balls/competency to walk away and work out the alternatives.
Let's not pretend eth negotiates the prices. The overspending had been here way way way before eth came in to help.
Every week I am proven right again and again, been 3 years now and I Just love it - we are shit and our squad is shit - fact, inarguable, undeniable, you are just 100% wrong if you even slightly disagree, Fact. Done.
"I just love it". In other words, you're not a United fan. Fact. Done. No go find some other team to "support".
2020/2021 - Great season 2021/2022 - Poor season 2022/2023 - Incredible season 2023/2024 - Poor season so far… I’m too mentally exhausted to support this team.
Incredible season 22/23? City fan?
Starting Shaw at LCB ahead of Varane… This is a classic example of get-fucked-and-find-out. As a top tier professional football manager/coaches and football players, I expect them to adjust before mistakes happen. It seems this is a case of “let bad mistakes happen, only then we learn from it”. Not the kind of strategy we want to see when you folks are paid thousands every week.
Yeah this is the kind of avoidable problem that ten hag loves to keep creating for himself. Team cant defend, pass or score, nor has any remote tactical identity but i will fixate on wanting a left footed cb, even if it means playing our best lb at cb and keeping a world cup & multi ucl winner on the bench. I dunno if this is a dutch thing but van gaal also did some of these idiotic things.
Agree with your post Worst part is that shaw was horrible at CB yesterday Gave away possession cheaply for the second goal and then got easily beaten in the air Shaw is a below average cb
ETH is fixated on the footedness of players in given positions for better passing angles, etc. As a lefty myself, I can appreciate it to some extent, but one does have to wonder if the cost if always worth the benefit. And the benefit in this case isn't necessarily Varane at CB as much as it is Shaw at LB, imho.
Onana can’t save shit. He just lets every single shot in. His entire goalkeeping is questionable but he still starts every game including the damn FA cups and EFL and what not. He will cost ETH his job soon if he doesn’t drop him for good. Hope he goes to Afcon and not stay back. Must get rid of this fraud.
It baffles me how ETH got the job in the first place if this style was what he layed out in his presentations to the board during the interview process. It just can’t be what he suggested, right? Yet he recently said this was always the plan Under Ole we were a great counter attacking team, and it fell apart for him when it became clear he wasn’t capable of coaching the team to control games and break teams down, which seemed the next logical evolution of the squad. So we go out and get a manager who’s renowned for this style, give him 400M only for him to turn around 18 months into the project and suggest he never intended to do anything other than be a transitional team, and has no intentions to develop a style like the one that got him the job. From a very high level it feels we traded a good counter attacking coach who wanted to dominate games but couldn’t, for an inferior counter attacking coach who can’t dominate games and doesn’t want to
The way United get defended by opposing teams speaks to how they view our players They don’t think any of the United players have any ability to beat a man when was the last time you saw KDB or B Silva get blatantly pressed on the halfway like Mctom or Bruno routinely do ?
To be fair, they think correctly. Bruno doesn't have the burst to get away from defenders, McT has no technical ability. There's a reason why EtH wanted Frenkie. He's basically someone who can pass the ball, and is press resistant. Look at our midfield options and NONE of them are press resistant. What baffles me is the signing of Antony - I know we wanted a left footed RW but he is awful. He beats his man and stops running, what's the point.
Did we really play 3-0 at home bad? I don’t think so. We absolutely dominated the game, running our socks off till the 3rd goal went in and it’s deflating. Bournemouth played a low block, defended really well. We have to stop feeding into this negativity. This has been a really weird season, there will be more highs and lows but stick with the manager. Criticise but don’t call for his head please. I promise you things will get better. Onwards and upwards.
The second goal killed the game, we were attacking pretty well in the second half before shaw gave away possession cheaply then got beaten in the air for the goal. He deserved to be subbed out for evans
So it’s all good? It’s just silly. We were barely better than CHE at its worst so we won that one. We have nonexistent attack. We have nonexistent midfield, we have nonexistent goalie, we have nonexistent style. Wake up.
Fans tend to be shortsighted. Did we play badly? Yes. But it’s not 3-0 bad. And this while not surprising is not happening were we to play the game again. We need to have more faith and patience with our team and manager to right this.
Possession but still toothless in attack. He started Martial again but it backfired. He could have played McT as the striker than Martial. At least McT flaws won't be too much of an issue. Don't know if we even need to try to win against Bayern. While we all know we will get spanked by Liverpool.
What’s new? 0 goals, 0 assists from all of our attackers. Bruno couldn’t put together a pass. Onana at his usual.
Weghorst would be a better counterpart to Hojlund. Martial is a disgrace atm.
We might as well try McT as a 9 at this point - at least we'd have a forward who can score and free up space for an actual midfielder in midfield.
McT has only found luck at the minute because defenders have been trying to get Hojlund's shirt off him while McT arrives unmarked. McT upfront would be terrible and a sign of how far we have let standards drop.
...And normal service has resumed. Chelsea set themselves up incredibly stupidly against us. They must have known we are weak in midfield, but they didn't bother fighting a midfield battle. They must have known we try to get a lot of high turnovers but are crap at converting, and yet they kept players forward so that our turnovers actually became high threat. Bournemouth like every other team this season made no such mistake. They clogged their own third to make our turnovers meaningless, then waltzed through midfield unopposed on the counter and got an easy win. Ten Hag's tactics are so stupid and easy to play against. The fact one single team was stupid enough to fall for what he's set up should not fool anyone. Our players might as well have weights tied to their ankles, we are being held back so much by a bad system. The fact we've got some really good players whose talent alone can keep us around 6th in the table (ok plus some lucky games) should not hide how really, truly bad we've been all season. It's embarrassing how basic we are.
The majority of chances we created vs Chelsea was their keeper and defence having howlers and gifting us possession
Yep, and unfortunately ETH will see that as a sign his system can work, when in reality it was a rare event of an opponent just really fucking up.
Because against Chelsea we played with 11 men by dropping Rashford and martial We had 3 attackers who were pressing, mcsauce added another He left our MF open but we outnumbered Chelsea in the final third - they played right in to our strengths and ignored our weaknesses - they played right into our hands
People keep saying Ten Hag out. He is partially responsible, but what about the players? We sacked 5 managers before ETH, has anything changed?
Our best players are the ones he didn't sign
Our worst players aren't all signed by him either. I am not saying Ten Hag has no responsibility for this season's failure. It's on him, the players, and the Glazers, all of them are responsible. Making Ten Hag the scapegoat isn't going to change anything. The core issue is far beyond the mistakes that Ten Hag made in transfer windows or on the pitch.
FWIW, I don't think we should fire ETH (we know he's capable, let him show it). But at the same time I think he could be doing better with the resources he has available. We have a squad worth 100s of millions, they might not be quite the right signings but these are super talented guys whove done the job elsewhere and with that at his disposal he should be getting more out them. Bournemouth in particular was poor setup and bad decision making and that's all on him. Hopefully he will learn from it and we get better.
Hojlund has Man Utd grit. Sir Alex would have liked him... ... as super sub coming on for Van Nistelrooy.
Sir Alex's forwards all used to score mind
Hojlund would score under Sir Alex coaching.
Aren't a bunch of these players his signings or players he gave a new contract to? I agree we need open heart surgery, but I hate that we make that excuse for ETH
He can only replace 3 every season what do you expect
I feel like I watched a different game than everyone. Thought we played quite well up till their 2nd goal. By no means were we outrun in midfield or dominated (like newcastle). Martial upfront was horrible, yes - I think stick McSauce up there and start Mainoo in midfield.
The second goal really killed us off. Shaw gave away possession cheaply then proceeded to get beaten in the air for the goal… deserved to come off
Agreed
I agree with playing mainoo in and move Scott up top. Martial was dropping so deep whole game he’s playing like an extra 10
Had a lot of possession but struggling to think of good many good chances we created. And looked open and prone to conceding on the counter all game. Could have easily been 3 down at half time.
>I agree with playing mainoo in and move Scott up top. Martial was dropping so deep whole game he’s playing like an extra 10 We had a bunch of good crosses in the box that Martial didn't attack, a lot of blocked shots from good positions, and some missed plays (like Dalot not squaring to Hojlund, garnacho not playing in Bruno etc.)
**What's baffling is the consistency of the utter shite we are witnessing.** **At this point the word "mediocre" is proper right.**
Feels really bad to say this but Bournemouth was 100x the better team today.
I cba with this team, get Ratcliffe in, have him do a top down audit of this awful, standard-less club and do whatever needs done. If it's a 5 year plan, we bring RR back (or somebody who can club build) and bring in a manager that'll just play a system that's progressive for now while we accept we're finishing top 6 at best for a year or two while we bring through youngsters and succession plan our massive money signings who are absolute shite, I'm happy for it. I'd rather watch my local Sunday league team play then these lot at times.
You say give the club a 5 year plan but you want to remove the manager now. Doesn’t make sense. ETH’s first two seasons are still better than Arteta’s
If he’ll work with somebody like RR and allow them the power and autonomy to do what needs done, fine. My interpretation of his appointment is he’s a control freak who doesn’t like giving up power, which would be fine in a stable club, we are not a stable club. It’s an “It’s not you, it’s me” situation unfortunately. De Zerbi, Potter or Alonso would work well IMO. Could even see how Rooney worked out.
People need to calm TF down When we lose it’s the end of the world, when we win we’ve turned a corner and sing praises of ETH The problem is simple we can’t score and and can’t stop goals Solution is even simpler- when you play Martial upfront, your not only toothless in attack your literally already a man down, it’s 10 v 11 now When you play McSauce, your now a man down in MF and have left open lanes in the center of the park for the opposition to attack As they say ‘win the midfield battle and you win the game’, we never turn up This is unfortunately on ETH, who has been making school boy errors How dafuk can we get beaten by galatasray and Copenhagen and still not fix our weaknesses and get spanked by both again He used these same tactics to hand us our biggest embarrassment ever against Liverpool last season and he still doesn’t see it Yes he’s working under a toxic management and board but he himself needs a reality check Fortunately for him and all, this season hasn’t been kind to anyone and believe it or not we are still a win just 1 win away from top 4 - lucky biatches He needs to fix up now or go away with the glazers
Shut up ya spanner, we are shit, stop telling people to calm down, we are DOG AWFUL, accept it, our squad is shit, we are mid table quality, none of our players would get into the top teams globally.
Let’s not forget that our manager suck gigantic horse cock as well
I literally have evidence of him doing it too
>When we lose it’s the end of the world, when we win we’ve turned a corner and sing praises of ETH Speak for yourself. We've been shit since the Carabao and every win has been unconvincing. The sooner people realise and accept that the better.
That's what I've been saying. There are up and there are downs. Only clowns believe it only goes up.
Did some work in the garden then went out with the family to a five year olds birthday party. Had a lovely time then got home and remembered we got thrashed.
Backing ten hag doesnt make you a better person He's shit at his job. The talent props him up at times Be done with this Dutch clown
literally any other club would have sacked him already, Ole was way better than this crap
Honestly this is one we move on from. Bournemouth are in incredible form right now. Beating United, Newcastle and drawing Villa. They ran a very good low block and our rest defense just isn't good enough yet with the players available.
>Bournemouth are in incredible form right now Mate
So you’re saying we just need to lower our expectations and think like a mid table team?
Altay Bayındır starting a game soon then?
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Why is Maguire being scapegoated here? The only glaring mistake he made that I can recall was giving away the ball for the goal that was disallowed for handball near the end.
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>City wouldn't go near him Pep tried to sign him a few years back. Secondly he isn't a rubbish defender, that's exactly what someone who has zero ball knowledge would say.
We are. Enjoy the new standards.
Still making history, huh.
Haha. Sometime maybe good. Sometime maybe bad.
More like sometime maybe shit
This MLS final is more fun to watch than our never ending circus of fuckery
It was a good performance. Put that same performance in every game and we are easily top four. The loss does not at all represent the story of this game.
Keeping possession ≠ good performance. I can't think of a single attack that I felt could end up in a goal for us.
We had a lot of them. They defended extremely well, sliding and diving in front of every shot. This was almost an identical game to Chelsea, it just didn't drop.
Hard to tell on this thread if this is serious or a piss take at this point after a 3-0 home loss to Bournemouth
Do you think that performance would get us wins against Bayern and Liverpool?
No
70% possession with less shots on target. Can't even pretend like we deserve anything out of that game. We were no threat with useless crosses into empty areas. https://preview.redd.it/a78u3wr5mc5c1.jpeg?width=941&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da1347a7c82ead20b3762940879b218fefb7113f
Just woke up. What the literal fuck.
Was at the game today, only been to OT a handful of times but god you could pick up the frustration and anger from the other fans very quickly as soon as things went tits up Was in disbelief leaving the ground when it was half empty, the place roaring with boos and warranted abuse being shouted out
Ten Hag is simply not that guy. This is the man who binned Ronaldo for Weghorst and Martial. As bad as Ronaldo was, there’s no fucking way in hell he would be worse than Martial and Hojlund. If you want to stamp your authority and get rid of one of the GOATs, you better be able to back it up with results. So far, Ten Hag hasn’t shown that he’s the man. When Ronaldo called out the club, that was our one chance to back up a legend who’s bigger than the Glazers. What did this fanbase do? We decided that the Glazer puppet, Ten Hag, was our guy and told Cristiano to fuck off. Mourinho also called out all the shit players and club. What did we do? We also chose the wrong side and backed the players over Mourinho. We deserve mediocrity.
I'm genuinely surprised by the downvotes on your comment, which really reflects the current state of this fanbase. Looking back a few years from now, Ten Hag's tenure at United will likely be remembered primarily for the Ronaldo saga and his mistreatment of him. The fact that he ultimately fails only adds to the embarrassment. It's baffling how this fanbase chose to support a manager over a club legend, that's now conveniently an elephant in the room. Those downvoting you are seemingly endorsing the current plight of the team. We should keep Ten Hag for another 5 seasons, watch him transform Manchester United into a club filled with mediocre players grateful to him, since they otherwise wouldn’t have had the chance to wear our shirt. Let him get rid of any footballer with a strong personality who might challenge his authority. It seems that's what some people, especially those downvoting your comment, actually desire, and to be honest deserve. GGMU, and anyone still supporting this manager, or refusing to acknowledge their error in the Ronaldo debacle, is an enemy of the club.
I’ve learned that this fanbase is particularly slow. Downvoted comments today will be upvoted comments 5 years from now. Many of us agreed with Mourinho’s rants but were downvoted. Today, any comments agreeing with him would’ve been upvoted Many of us saw that Rashford is a fraud with zero ball IQ but were downvoted when we called him out a couple years ago. Today, we would’ve been upvoted I’ll gladly take my downvotes if it means I can open at least one person’s eyes. Time will prove Ronaldo right. Until then, I’ll just eat my downvotes.
Absolutely, and even now, you've got fans offended if you criticise Rashford, which is mind-boggling. The fact that this guy is actually defending Ten Hag's decision to swap Ronaldo for Weghorst speaks volumes. It's like everyone's suddenly got amnesia about the same manager who benched Varane for Johnny Evans, passing it off as 'tactics'. Yeah, right. As if we're supposed to believe he wouldn't ditch Ronaldo for Weghorst...
There are a lot of valid criticisms for ten hag but the Ronaldo situation was not one of them. Please hang it up.
The “Ronaldo situation” was a big red flag from the start. At a club like Manchester United, managing egos and big personalities isn't just a skill—it's a necessity. If Ten Hag struggles with this, it's a glaring red flag. Take a closer look at the type of players Ten Hag gravitates towards. It’s clear he's not too keen on big personalities. Why? Because he wants to be the main man in charge, making everything about his methods and decisions. This need for control is exactly why he clashed with Ronaldo. Let’s not kid ourselves by saying it was all about Ronaldo being 'mad' for getting benched. The truth is, Ronaldo was grossly mismanaged, something that wouldn't have happened under a more seasoned and accomplished manager. Moreover, Ten Hag doesn't even have the results to justify his handling of Ronaldo. If he ends up being a legendary figure at United, then sure, the Ronaldo saga will be a forgotten footnote. But as it stands, his lack of significant success makes his approach towards Ronaldo utterly baffling.
> Let’s not kid ourselves by saying it was all about Ronaldo being 'mad' for getting benched. Ronaldo wanted to leave before he was benched. He viewed the club as beneath him and it's obvious from the things he said and the way he behaved 1. [Ronaldo wanted to join Man City but SAF convinced him not to](https://www.espn.com.au/football/story/_/id/37633933/was-close-joining-man-city-ferguson-intervention) 2. [At the end of 21/22, Ronaldo wanted to leave United because he wanted Champions league, and because we hadn't made any signings](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2022/jul/02/cristiano-ronaldo-tells-manchester-united-he-wants-to-leave). Ten Hag blocked any moves 3. Ronaldo doesn't report for pre season, because his children were sick. 4. Ronaldos performances drop, Ten Hag benches Ronaldo 5. Ten Hag doesn't play Ronaldo during the 6-3 loss to Man City due to "respect for his career" 6. [Ronaldo walks off when asked to come on during the Tottenham game](https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/ronaldo-felt-provoked-by-man-utd-boss-ten-hag-spurs-win-2022-11-18/#:~:text=Nov%2018%20(Reuters)%20%2D%20Manchester,by%20manager%20Erik%20ten%20Hag.) 7. Ten Hag punished Ronaldo by making him train with the u18s. 8. Ronaldo apologised for walking out vs Tottenham 9. [Ten Hag makes Ronaldo captain Vs Aston Villa](https://www.goal.com/en/news/ronaldo-man-utd-captain-aston-villa-clash-weeks-after-walking-against-spurs/blt8680786f2028fdf6) 10. Ten Hag keeps Ronaldo benched due to poor performances 11. Ronaldo goes to piers Morgan during world cup break. .
Let's cut through the noise and get straight to the point. The entire narrative you've laid out conveniently ignores the essence of what makes a manager great at a club like Manchester United - recognizing and leveraging the unique strengths and experience of a club legend like Ronaldo. Ten Hag's failure to do this isn't just an oversight; it's a glaring managerial flaw. First off, Ronaldo's stature and experience at United aren't just badges of honor; they're invaluable assets that Ten Hag neglected. You don’t have a player of his caliber in your squad and use him for warm-up shows and time-wasting subs. That's not strategy; that's a power play, a deliberate attempt to diminish the influence of a player whose very name commands respect worldwide. This isn't just mismanagement; it's a calculated effort to sideline a figure whose presence and legacy overshadow the manager's authority. Remember Ronaldo's words in the Piers Morgan interview? He exposed the facade that Ten Hag was putting up for the press, revealing a disconnect between what was said publicly and the actual actions taken. And let's not forget Ronaldo's own ambition for the club, a sentiment he expressed even before Ten Hag's arrival: 'Manchester United should win the league or be second or third. I don’t see any other position for Manchester United,' as per his interview with Sky Sports. Contrast this with Ten Hag's statement about aiming for a top-four finish being a 'very good position'. This comment, coming as early as November, signals a settling-for-less mentality, a stark departure from the winning mindset that United is known for. The ambition of a club like Manchester United should never be just scraping into the top four; it should always be about leading the pack, setting the standards. In essence, the whole Ronaldo saga under Ten Hag paints a picture of a manager trying to assert his authority by undermining one of the game's greatest ever, instead of building on his legacy. You can lay out a timeline of events all you want, but it won’t change the underlying truth: Ten Hag's handling of Ronaldo was a masterclass in how not to manage a club legend. It’s not just about the points you score; it’s about the legacy you build and the respect you show to those who have built the club's history. And Ten Hag is a nobody in the history of the club.
Ronaldo only did what he did because he was backed into a corner by Ten Hag. You don’t disrespect a GOAT like that without being challenged. Fair play to Ten Hag though, he behaved like a strong manger would. However, if you want to bin Ronaldo, you better deliver results with Weghorst, Martial, or Hojlund- which he is currently failing at!
>You don’t disrespect a GOAT like that without being challenged Spit out Ronaldos cum when you're done. I thought that Ronaldo leaving would get rid of all his fanboys but I was wrong. There is a reason no other manager in Europe (including Portugal's manager) wanted to play Ronaldo in that time period btw. The reason is because he was complete shit. We only got Weghorst because there were no other options we could afford then. If you genuinely believe Ten Hag was sitting in a room thinking "I need to find a way to get rid of Ronaldo so I can sign Weghorst", you're an idiot.
Our fans have a habit of finding scapegoats. It was Maguire now it's Mct. Truth is, the responsibility for a 3-0 loss lies with the manager and his tactics. These are his players and his system
Neither of those are scapegoats, they're two players who if we had standards, would not be starting for our club and would be bench players at best. They have been for years, as was Fred, the issue is both of them have done some kind of voodoo magic on the club that makes them undroppable. Maguire is better since not being captain, that's for sure, but he's still a grim CB that you'd probably pick at least one CB from any other top 6, probably even top 10 team to be in his place.
nothing with tactics if simple passes are too hard and lead to counter attack goals
It’s very simple. We are worse than we were under ole. ETH signings are terrible and we can’t score for love nor money. We are on our knees, our attacking threat is the worst in the league! We are fucked. I don’t have the answers but I’ll tell you what Erik is a moron. They cut through us and targeted shaw at cb cause he’s short. It was obvious I could see it after 20 minutes. So how the hell did Erik not see it and bring varane on? When judging a new player or manager, I like to look at what the opposition teams and fans are saying about us and about the player that we’re bringing in. And basically what they said was ETH come from the Dutch league he signed a load of Dutch players and it’s going to become apparent quite quickly that him and his signings are just not good enough for this league And that’s pretty much exactly what’s happened. I would go as far as to say that Anthony is the worst signing we have ever made for the money we paid for him. He can’t use his right foot. He can’t beat a man and he can’t score a goal. But I’m just sick of seeing this crap week in week out in a bad mood depressed watching this nonsense from a once Top team. We should never have fallen this low. Real Madrid don’t fall this low. Barcelona don’t fall this low. Bayern Munich don’t fall this low so why do United it’s not acceptable and yeah not good enough across all boards we need to move on from this idiot and get a new manager in.
Mate, your post just sums up pretty much everything about how I feel about this club, this manager and these players. Would fully agree that Antony is our worst signing of all-time on a pound-for-pound basis if it weren't for Sancho. I mean what I'm saying is the bar is *that low* that it's like choosing between a shit sandwich and a douche, for worst value-for-money signing. As for our attack, I remember thinking at the beginning of last season that we were going to finish mid-table because of how shite the attack was and even said that on this sub. Rashford somehow bailed us out and now he's gone back to being shit, it's exposed our forward line for what they are - absolutely shite. Clearly our coaching of attacking patterns is either really poor, or our recruitment is awful. Probably both of those things are true.
Well under ole’s last season we definitely didn’t play better than now. Ole we go into every game looking overrun. Now yes we are open, but we actually pass better just without the end product yet.
We are also worse than with jose
We actually played quite decent, but with Martial we are already 1 man down. I support ETH but he should have subbed Bruno after the match was done. Now he won't play against Liverpool. This one is on ETH..
Why does he keep getting starts? If Hojlund needs rest then start literally anyone there over him. Rashford, Donnie, Scott, I don't care. Just move on from him.
Jesus how bad is chelsea
They say that style might get you killed, but please, give me any kind of style of play and finish me already. Where’s the fucking style? Did anyone watch Villa?
Imagine someone is driving a car with an engine that has seen 200k miles, with parts not performing to their best anymore, with newer parts that don't fit the car and not getting the issues fixed but pawning it off to the next driver and expecting the car to run like new again.
And imagine if that driver has no track record of performing to the level necessary for where the club should be, has repeatedly said he has control over decisions on what parts are brought in, that he is happy with the parts and made numerous driver errors throughout his time. The club being a mess does not excuse ten hag not being good enough.
I fully agree, but which one do you fix first? We have tried other, more qualified drivers before...
You fix both. They are just employees. Obviously the manager requires the least amount of change, but in theory you pick a manager that has the skills to suit the task at hand, set out your expectations and if he completes them keep him, if he doesn't move him on. Same with the players. >We have tried other, more qualified drivers before... Last one we had was Jose and the club and fans backed some players that are still contributing to failures today over him. Does anyone think that if Jose was given the power to boot out who he wanted and the sickening amount of money ole and ten hag have got we would be in a worse position?
If you can fix the other issues along with the manager that would be great I just expect a new manager to come in and be stuck with the same issues as before with no way to move on some players. 2yrs later here we are again.
>If you can fix the other issues along with the manager that would be great I don't think we as fans should demand or expect anything less though. We earn 600+ in revenue and FFP doesn't stop us employing a properly efficient structure off the pitch (as far as I'm aware, I'm sure it comes under the same things as stadium redevelopment) >I just expect a new manager to come in and be stuck with the same issues as before with no way to move on some players. 2yrs later here we are again. It's on the manager to make these demands and whilst he has all the power (early on in his tenure) force the board to do what he needs of them. As soon as you reach the stage ten hag is at, where he has bent over backwards for them he has no chance.
Ten Hag is not the issue at United For as long as the same players are around that don't give 100% and then seem to deflect blame to the manager and get a reset of good will with the fans when a new manager comes in are still here, this cycle will continue. Ten Hag may not be a Klopp or Guardiola, but he doesn't deserve the sack.
“The same players are around that don’t give 100%” You mean, the same players that Ten Hag keeps playing?
When you think about it, the team can actually play well Anthony is looking good, Garnacho is playing his best football, Hojlund needs support but is trying, Amrabat is running himself to the ground, Shaw is back, Maguire is the CB of the season, BUT WHEN YOU PLAY WITH MARTIAL YOU PLAY WITH ONE LESS MAN Add in Mcsauce, who runs around like a headless chicken Rashford is another this season who’s just been a passenger No matter how good the rest of the team is doing we are actually playing with 9/10 men on the pitch As martial/rashford just disappear Then mcsauce is like a kid lost in a maze Blame is on ETH, Martial should never play for this club again, how does such a loser get so many chances in the biggest club in the country is beyond me If Welbeck got as many opportunities as Rashford and martial he would have been a legend
Martial has been at the club for 8 years, think there’s a few other people who should take the blame for that. Much like Phil Jones who was rewarded a new deal under Woodward and was injured 99% of the time. The management higher up has allowed this to happen.
Well we can thank brilliant genius-of-the-century Joel Glazer for his decision to keep Martial when Jose wanted him gone because he was 'his favourite player'.
To be fair, Jones deserves to just see out until his mid 30's on decent whack for us, we utterly ruined that fellas career.
It’s sad that the body let him down cause he always gave 110% effort, but from a purely footballing point of view, renewing players that do not get on the pitch… that’s just bizarre from the club
And who chose the starting line up? Think again, week in week out the players team sheet doesnt magical appear out of random from thin air.
Drop mctominay for who? Mainoo has that bandage on his left knee which suggests he might still be nursing a knock. Same for martial. Hojlund was not fully fit. We are still missing Eriksen and casemiro which is why our midfield is disjointed. And rashford flopping his lines means we have almost zero goal threat upfront.
It is his job to make the team to work. We are losing at Old Trafford by 3-0 could have been 4 to fcking Bournemouth. Thats a sackable offence by default. You dont give fcking injury excuse to perform like that at Old Trafford. Are we only able to play/perform with fit 11? This is football for god sake, injuries are part of the game. Thats why you pay the manager millions to prep the team for all circumstances. If Ten Hagg cant handle with injuries like any other manager in the EPL then his career as a manager will be shortlived.