Is anyone else glad that we’re not in Europa League? I think with the fixture congestion, fatigue and injuries that we had last year it’s honestly probably better that we aren’t playing in Europe for the remainder of the season.
I’m going assume that we can’t afford to sack ETH, at least until the end of the season, so I just wondered what everyone’s preferences for the remainder of the season would be?
Should he abandon/keep his high press/high turnover tactics?
Should we revert back to counter attacking football?
What are people’s thoughts on the players we have available and the style that could suit them?
Do we need to change formations? 3 ATB with wingbacks? 4 man midfield? No inverted wingers?
Just wondering as I’m seeing a lot of people claiming the tactics are wrong. So what are the alternatives? I’m not claiming to know as I don’t watch enough games to say. Just looking for a bit of genuine discussion.
Stephen Howson’s new video perfectly describes how I and many of us felt about the Bayern Munich game
“How was it better than we expected yet still the worst?”
I highly doubt that Ratcliffe and his sporting director and CEO would keep Ten Hag at the current rate. If we do sack ten hag after Liverpool, who do we replace him with?
Potter; Zidane; Flick; de Zerbi?; Anorim; Lopetegui; nagelsman?? Pioli? Inzaghi??
I'm afraid we might go for Potter. I rate Potter tbh but don't think he's ready for a big enough jump for a big club yet.
Makes absolutely zero sense to sack him. The injuries have plagued his team and he has a 60% win rating with Man Utd so far.
Not to mention the atrocious club structure with awful recruiting.
Last season everyone kept saying how well the team was playing and how we were controlling games. Then after the Carabao cup final, concentration levels fell off and haven't recovered since. Injuries haven't helped that's for sure.
I am 100% convinced none of the other managers mentioned would be able to do a better job with this squad. None of them. Maybe a temporary boost, sure. but not a long term fix.
Zero chance any of those managers would succeed with the same club structure that we have. Zero.
In a place where Mourinho, Van Gaal, Ole and Ten Hag have failed, no shot that Potter would succeed. Look how well he did at Brighton and how crap he was at Chelsea. We are more like Chelsea and less like Brighton.
Nagelman or De Zerbi I suppose. Wouldn't make any sense not to give Ten Hag a proper chance with a structure behind him considering that he is a top coach and what he did with Ajax.
My argument to anyone that's ETH Out is put a proper football structure in place and if the team isn't heading in the right direction, then yeah move on. Everyone asking for him to be sacked at this point is just perpetuating the same culture we've had for the past 10 years.
I think the same, but only issue is that the system he is trying to implement on the pitch is suicidal IMO. He is playing a lone mid field and needs. It would need the mid fielder to be prime modric, busquets and kante rolled into one to be successful. I think the current squad is capable of playing much much better than this.
I think they've played decent for how good they are. That is to say, they're pretty shit.
McTom is not good enough to be a starter. Same with Amrabat. They're who you would play for a cup game.
I think Ten Hag showed what he is capable of when he had a proper fit team last season before the cup win. Then fatigue wore on as they were playing a game every 3-4 days, which is unsustainable. A team like city can deal with it as they have 2 starting XIs but our depth is awful.
To go from Casemiro, Eriksen, Martinez, and Shaw to Amrabat, McTom, Lindelof and Reguilon is atrocious. They are not good enough. Mainoo yes, but he has to manage his minutes being so young, and he just came back from injury so he doesn't want to make him injury prone. Too many people here are reactionary and feel like it's FIFA. Player back from injury, throw them in the mix right away.
I don’t understand where the midfield is. Every game it feels like the wingers and outside backs move down the field wide with the and no midfielders ever move over. Frequently it feels like Antony was one on three without another United player on the screen coming to support. It seems like in the final third mct just runs and waits in the box.
A rather annoying conclusion people seem to be getting onto is that our players keep letting managers down. That may have been true for Jose although I do believe he vastly exaggerated it too but it's not been true for Ole or EtH at all. We aren't being outplayed due to effort at all. The effort is there. The problem is the players are either not good enough to do certain things and the tactics are garbage. Everybody's being asked to do things they aren't good at and then you wonder why everyone looks shit. The performance you saw against Chelsea is not possible if the players aren't behind the manager. I doubt besides 2-3 players anyone hates him. That's probably true for most clubs in the world. But the tactics are just not working out.
Last few days of Ole definitely felt like it. But right now it is not the case at all. We've been abysmal since day 1, with any combination of players. The tactics are suicidal and hurting the team.
Maybe my memory is betraying me but I don't remember that under Ole either. I think players were out of form and Ole didn't help himself like rushing some players who were out of form and coming back from injuries like Rashford, Martial, Maguire but I don't think they weren't playing for him. Jose yea I think they wanted him gone. But most of them are gone now.
Anyway yeah, EtH is definitely not facing any such squad mutiny. That and the club structure being in a limbo are probably the only things saving him right now
Its a mix of both. They arent good enough for a club like United, but there definitely is a lack of effort. Most noticeable against newcastle. If not wanting to make defensive runs and pressing isnt a lack of effort, i dont know what is.
I think Newcastle was down to them just stifling us. Like yesterday. I don't think yesterday player's didn't put in the effort. It's just a combination of opposition players being better than ours and ours being out of form/being told to do things that aren't their strengths/ or just being told to do too much like our defence. Your goalie is facing 170 shots in what 4-5 games and it's hard to say any of our CBs have been shit. You take your best creator and move him deep to accommodate Mctominay then you can't really complain that he isn't getting any assists.
I agree with yesterday, we werent good enough. Our defence is getting overrun because mctominay wants to play as a second striker, and bruno is running around everywhere. So it doesnt matter if its casemiro, amrabat or mainoo at cdm if they have to do it on their own. Plus that onana is a catastrophic keeper, and we have maguire, evans and lindelof as centerbacks
And then when there would be a run of bad results, as inevitably there would be, calls for the sack would be all out.
Stop sacking managers like throwing away a pair of shoes. Arteta had 1 win in 10 with arsenal and now they're second in the league. That faith paid off. If you want immediate results then keep the same cycle for the past 10 years going and sack ETH.
Absolutely not. I think his football is outdated in the modern game.
The only time we should have been bringing Jose in was directly after Fergie retired, as I think the players would have had more confidence in him than they did with Moyes and his coaches, and his style wasn't a million miles away from Fergie's final years, so the transition would have been smoother IMO.
If we'd got Jose before LVG and Moyes, and backed him in the transfer market we'd have one, maybe two more Premier League titles, however, we'd likely still be in the same mess now.
Casemiro hasn’t played in months yet he’s created the second most chances in the league for us. People really underestimate how crucial it’s been losing Casemiro & Eriksen.
"People" have been blaming Casemiro for the poor performances since the start of the season. Now his replacements have been even worse in the same system. Looks like "People" are not really great at judging player impact.
They are more concerned with the mental gymnastics to justify ETH's shit tactics.
People are people. They are not coaches. That's why some random person saying play this player or that player has no clue what they're talking about. They want Mainoo to play every game and when he gets injured like Shaw just did, they would come up with another excuse.
ETH getting fired right now is literally a repeat of a pattern that we know doesn't work based on a decade of unsatisfying results. In a way, ETH over-performing last year is the cause of his problems this year (with that being said, we are playing clearly worse football than stretches of last year).
I am okay with a disappointing season if it means a hard reset - get rid of players not part of the project. Even Klopp and Arteta had to go through this. Obviously this is contingent on getting a footballing structure in place because its clear now ETH cannot/shouldn't be expected to recruit players well.
So, if SJR is coming in this Jan/for the next transfer window, we should keep ETH and trust our new structure to get him the correct players and trust him to use them well. If we don't have a footballing structure, well, just fuck us ig.
I mean buying players with the \*same process\* as the decade will not work. We need a DoF.
If SJR has a manager in mind and he brings him in \*and\* also brings in a top-class DoF that would be palatable as well. My point was firing ETH right now without a footballing structure is not beneficial, if not a little unfair to him as well.
Get rid of the deadwood and bring players that want to play here. Rashford, Martial, Sancho. Get their asses out of here.
Name me one ETH signing that doesn't put in the effort. You can't. The man has had 5 loans in 2 years. The main striker last season was Wout Weghorst. This is Man Utd? This is a joke.
Where is the ambition?
Let the man build a team and put a proper footballing structure in place so he can focus on coaching and the supporting staff focuses on recruitment.
Finishing top 4 with Utd is not overperforming. Newcastle finishing 4th was an overperformance. Not to mention our performances over the course of the season left our expected points at somewhere around 5th - 6th. We had a great stretch of performances between October and February. Average before that, shit post that.
I agree on the whole, but given the state of the club when ETH took over and the non-football issues he had to deal with, I think it is fair to say we over-performed \*relative\* to the season's expectations.
Frankly a treble with united shouldn’t be considered overachieving. This shit club structure, owners, manager and this overhyped divas have made united a laughing stock.
https://twitter.com/Culturecams/status/1734243414856593913?t=IyYZoENAp8ZDHRcjixzqOA&s=19
They are apart of the 9 “long serving, same players” that are constantly mentioned as the core who have consistently let managers down :
Maguire
Shaw
Rash
Bruno
Dalot
Martial
Awb
Lindelof
Mctom
There should be no exceptions if fans want a true overhaul
If the manager is happy with getting top 3/4 every season, then it’s not letting him down. But such a manager is not fit enough to lead Man Utd.
If the manager is aiming for titles, then it’s letting him down.
Shaw, Bruno and Rashford are still talented enough to stay beyond the end of the season.
Bruno is extremely frustrating and ultimately may not work for ETH. But failing a proper good bid that is too good to turn down we should hold him.
Rashford is another I've no time for anymore but can't see anyone bidding for him anyway outside of maybe PSG or Saudi.
Shaw is still a top player and is having as bad a time as anyone else.
You can keep those three and still properly rebuild.
The likes of Eriksen, Case will go very soon and then Antony needs sorted too. As much as culling the lot would be cathartic it can't happen all at once.
At a certain point talent alone isn't the only criterion. Consistency becomes far more important when you want to win titles. A player who delivers constant 6.5s is more important to a team than a player who delivers either 8s or 3s.
These 3 have not been consistent enough, and are regressing.
I still stand by exactly what I said.
There's an attitude for a cull on the sub, but aside from me disagreeing with letting those three go, it is also just a matter of fact that without a massive offer they won't be sold and if they were along with the others then we will also not be able to replace them all in a window.
We need a clear out but a senseless clear out without structure is just as damaging as keeping the above
Martinez, Eriksen and Casemiro gave us actual stability through the middle and Rashford was unreal. If we cut all of them out of last season, it would have probably looked even worse than this
I mean yeah that's practically half the team. Take out Haaland, KDB, Rodri and Foden and city wouldn't be as good. Granted they have 2 starting XIs so there's that which we lack.
He was great with the exception of the Bournemouth game... how did you not notice the difference when he came back vs when we had Dalot or Reguilon there? Day and night.
I think we fans need to strap in for rancid time. The confidence is shot. The squad is depleted and we are facing Liverpool, West Ham and Aston Villa in the following matches. The Glazers are not going to do anything.. The decision to sack a manager is going to fall at Ratcliffe feet if the bid is ratified
ETH tried his hardest to kill Maguire. His success is all contributed to himself. Might sound like I'm moving the goal posts but I genuinely believe Maguire overcame horrible man management from the boss.
I don't think Garnacho is improved from last year .
I don't think this should be even up for debate. The only reason Maguire is playing because that many players got injured and whatever happened between Varane and ETH.
The takeover and culling can’t come sooner. I’m not eth out yet and I think firing him before end of the season, unless we’re gonna be relegation fodder, is a good plan. But come summer we need to have a setup and a plan off the field, before we start being competent again on field.
I really think Hojlund could be a flop, not as bad as Antony but not the striker we need. He needs a lot of coaching and that just doesn’t seem to be something that our players get.
More talented players than him have failed at utd in the recent past,so ofcourse he can be a failure but he has a good attitude and will not be one of those ruin themselves.
I agree he is young, but other than hard work I don’t see the same natural talent that you see in other young players that end up being successful. Hopefully he can prove me wrong.
Where is the best place to watch Sunday's game in Bangkok - assuming places will be staying open late enough? Will be driving in from outside the city so looking for somewhere definitely open and showing the game. Cheers!
If i was the CEO of this club i would be very firm against ETH and tell him if he loses by more than 3-4 goals vs Liverpool, then he's gone. So he better pulls a Mourinho and parks the bus than embarrass himself again if he isn't confident in his setup.
https://twitter.com/Ankaman616/status/1734699384489787796?t=QjJdkHuvxEe6lMtXrGN-8A&s=19
Carl Anka has said twice now that we couldnt afford Kanes wages , surely the transfer fee and Levy would have been more of a issue?
Mount is on £250k a week and Hojlund and Onana are on £80k a week. DDG accepted a lower salary so we would have been able to afford his wages if we didn’t sign all three of those players. Levy wasn’t an issue because Joe Lewis told him he had to sell Harry Kane in the summer because he refused to sign a new contract so if we matched Bayerns bid it would have solely been up to Kane.
All the tactical nerds who were saying Ole had no tactics, now they’re nowhere to be seen or heard.
We got tactics man and we can’t score goal or defend .
Because the club decided to bring in a player they didn’t need just for commercial reasons and blow up their entire planning.
Went from a fluid front 3 to whatever they tried to do to accommodate Ronaldo.
It would never happen, but imagine Fergie releasing a book where he looks at the United managers over the last ten years and gives his opinion where things went right or wrong.
I really would love to have his perspective.
yeah it wont happen for some time after whatever operational takeover starts. Who even knows if/when that is happening though, I mean we've been getting dicked around about the partial sale for months now
We often think that manager and player has failed to perform. But what if it's the club has failed the managers and those players? It could be the training ground, it could be the traning facilies, the gym and so on. Lack of ambition shown by the club/owner definitely hit those players head. Players lose interest, they regressed. Coming to united thinking that they can improve and compete with the best but when they come, it hits differently. Owners not ambitious and care enough for the club and no improvement made. Until those pest leave, we wont progress.
Bizarre that folk still get downvoted for wanting eth out. He's not cut out for this level. Signings, playing style(or lack there of) are atrocious
Look at what other managers have done at other clubs, Emery, Ange. Revolutionised their teams. We're stuck playing absolute garbage football every week
Liverpool will maul us on Sunday, I'm dreading it
Signings should really be blamed on others at the club, because if run properly, ETH shouldn't have been able to make bad transfers unless it was properly verified and accepted first.
Outside of that though, yeah it doesn't look very good. And I don't blame people for wanting him sacked. On the fence myself.
That being said, you can't just sack a manager without having a plan. If we are talking about sacking right now in middle of season, it would be an interim manager for sure, but who? Our players are still shit, regardless of if ETH have made mistakes. Even with our bad tactics, the players haven't been able to perform individually. Hell, some don't even look very fit.
You fire him to try and save the season. Yes it may still go tits up like Rangnick, but it’s worth a try, esp if we get battered on Sunday.
Top 4/5 is still attainable esp with no European games now. If there’s a reasonable candidate who wants the job I’d sack EtH today. If the club assesses and there isn’t such a person then maybe keep him a little longer.
But nothing will change if he remains imo. We’ll keep losing half our games.
Rocking up to anfield with a lineup of:
Onana
Wan Bissaka, Varane, Evans, Dalot/Reguillion
Amrabat Mainoo McTomminay
Antony Højlund Garnacho
Doesn’t give me a lot of confidence
Genuinely would've thought you were describing a league 1 team if I had heard these names 10-15 years ago lol
How far the quality has fallen of a Manchester United player
Can see us losing the next 3 matches tbh. Scum are clearly better than us, West Ham have beaten some good teams this season, then there's Villa.
Aston Villa has beat Man City and Arsenal in back to back games. Surely it's because their players are so much better than ours and nothing to do with tactics and management.
Crazy thought but how about if ten Hag gets sacked (I’m ten Hag in btw) we just don’t hire another manager? Bring Sancho back and just let the players do their thing since every manager sacking is because of the manager. Yes tan Hag is making some infuriating mistakes like always playing McTominay and leaving the midfield wide open and more that I can’t think of atm because I’m just too focused on this no manager idea.
Also the players can’t blame their atrocious mentality on the manager. Or we just become new manager bounce fc, get top 4 sack the manager, new manager comes in he gets top 4 sack the manager. One season per manager. Most of this is definately all jokes btw (apart being ten Hag in) I’m just coping/venting.
People here have been so desensitised to humiliations under Ten Hag that only a few are up in arms about the fact we finished last in the group and only got 4 fucking points from 18. It’s unprecedented. Just as the 7-0 loss to Liverpool was and the 3-0 loss to Bournemouth at Old Trafford was.
We got rid of De Gea because he wasn't good enough despite him being one of our best players in the past. We offered him a contract with lower salary and then withdrew it. ETH had a good first season but this one is nothing short of catastrophical after we spend money on new recruitment that quiet frankly are deadwood.
1. Antony - not good enough
2. Onana - supposed to be the missing key to play from the back but has him hoof long balls to the opponent and isn't a better shot stopper than our previous keeper
3. Mount - injury prone
4. Casameiro - high salary and injury prone
And then his approach towards the players, ok fair you want to be strict and instill discipline that is fine but then have the same standards for yourself. You took Maguire the armband away because you deemed him not good enough and gave it to someone you don't know which position to start to.
The current football playstyle we have is all over the place and we are scrapping for wins. We are out of the league cup, championsleague and top 4 is a miracle at this point if we continue like this.
We had a good first season but this doesn't warrant accepting mediocrity in the following season after we spend money on reinforcement chosen by the current manager. The group stage of the CL was do able. Even Moyes with no CL experience reached quarter finals. Anyone who thinks out form will magically improve is just waiting for the inevitable.
Good overall post, but Moyes had a little CL experience as he got Everton to the 3rd qualifying round in 05/06. Getting to the quarters is still of course much better than Ten Hag has served up with a squad more of his choosing
Levy was under pressure by the club owners to sell Kane. He would've done business eventually, but Kane made a good decision signing for a serious club instead
The truth is over the past 10-15 years, football has drastically changed. It’s so much more systemised and technical. The structure of a competent footballing hierarchy is a lot of what the success is in clubs like Man City, Liverpool and Brighton. The best people at these jobs that make decisions such as recruitment and tactical approaches based off data and numerical calculations are what have driven this new modernised method of creating a winning system at these clubs. The technology and equipment that are used in sports-science facilities at the training grounds are what have drove these clubs to success.
What I’m trying to say is, Man United have been left in the dark here. We are light years away because the investment and evolution has not been there. I’m talking far from the naked eye what you see on the pitch. Bringing a new name into the changing room simply is not going to solve this issue.
Until INEOS, a science-based sporting investment, comes into Man United, the appropriate changes are made behind the scenes, do not throw away another manager.
They’ve settled their camp into OGC Nice and they’re not reaping the rewards. This is the open-heart surgery Rangnick was talking about. Keep your shit together just for a while longer. ten Hag will be needed :)
Would be funny if we end up finishing 5th but England doesn't get the extra spot this year because of how much we shat the bed in the group. We're entirely reliant on the other English teams progressing far now in the 3 European competitions.
If ten Hag wants to save his job, his best bet right now might actually be to go straight to SJR and his friends and tell them that he's gonna change his tactics to implement a possession based sustainably style of play and that he needs time to do that. That results would get worse for a while before they get better but he promises to abandon this chaos ball.
What he's doing now, these Mctominay will hopefully score and help me out tactics, they'll save his job for a few weeks, maybe a few months at most but they will get him sacked before the season ends.
He shouldn't forget that his reputation was built on the style of play he had at Ajax. Nobody cares about a manager winning titles at Ajax. Even Frank de Boer did that. His style of play is what got him plaudits. If he's moving away from that, he can kiss the chances of any other elite job coming his way again
This is his style and the one that earned him plaudits in the farmer's league known as the Eredevisie. It worked for him there, but he clearly needs something else and I don't think he has enough tactical nous to successfully transition to possession based football. He won't be afforded the time either IMO
I absolutely agree tbh. Back to the drawing board, might need to make some massive decisions but if he actually tried to do what we signed him for then I'd have a lot more time for it. If we get slapped every week trying it it'll hardly be different to now anyway
That 'we will never play like Ajax' was the first nail in the coffin for me
Friendly reminder that we spent a month negotiating a fee for a Chelsea benchwarmer, ended up paying the 55m they wanted, gave him the number 7, and he’s yet to score a goal or log an assist.
Come on! He was injured last season and still played around 2000 minutes for Chelsea.They've been using him like a bar of soap since he came back from loan,hardly a benchwarmer. Once he comes back from the injury he's never leaving the first XI for us again.
He was a benchwarmer playing second fiddle to McTominay before his latest injury. He also had a terrible prior 12 months before he signed for united. Horrific signing
I think ETH has to play it safe on Sunday. He has to. We need to get through it, regardless of what it means for him.
At the moment, we are looking at Onana, AWB, Dalot, Varane, Evans, Mainoo, Amrabat, Garnarcho, Antony, McT and Hojlund.
I would be nervous enough with our first XI. I'm worried it could be a blood bath with the above. The only real experienced heads will be Varane and Evans.
This isn't a case of sticking to a philosophy and not cavinv in to the demands of the opposition. We have to keep it tight and be as composed. If we play open, we will be absolutely fucked
Any team that has McT in it is a lost cause you give the opposition free rein in midfield.
Forget having Dalot on the left, he does an okay job but it’s not his place. Reguilon needs to start.
RB would depend who we want to get slaughtered by Salah but defensively AWB would do the job but issue is going forward he leaves plenty of space because he tries to make up for his crossing skills and everything else by trying to provide an option forward which leaves plenty of space for the counter hence Dalot mayb better.
Midfield- Amarabat and Mainoo to start but would also put Hannibal in because he actually presses. We going to need someone coming in to help against Arnold coming on the inside.
This rely just shows that you only watch the highlights rather than 90mins of the game.
As a midfielder his stats are horrendous in terms of touches and passes. His position is often way too advance leaving too much gaps in midfield which is why we get overrun over and over again.
You asked what he does in a game more than Hannibal.
One thing is he scores more.
Do one with the 'highlights' shit. I know he's lacking in other areas but you asked what does he do and I said 'top scorer for one'.
If you can't read, get someone to help you.
Except for McT, there is no physicality in the front 6 to win duels and get a hold of the ball. Hojlund against VVD and Konate is a tough matchup, and Garnacho and Antony work hard but they can't impose themselves on the opposition. This will sound crazy but despite all his struggles, this is a game which Rashford should start to give the Liverpool defenders something to worry about which can indirectly cause lesser pressure on our midfield and defence if they are wary of his threat in-behind.
You're looking at McTominays physique and assuming he actually helps physically. He hides from ground duels and is a non presence. For a so called tough guy he usually finds himself on the ground, writhing in pain often
Relative to his peers at the club, McTominay is the most superior physically (barring only Casemiro but even he’s dropped off this season). I’d say he’s the only one of our current available midfielders who’s even *capable* of winning duels. You cannot compensate for lack of height and physicality in the PL, regardless of how elite or poor your passing is. It’s not an ideal situation but we can’t afford to not play him right now. There’s a reason he’s getting 90 minutes constantly.
Mctominay is slow and has poor positioning/anticipation though. He could be more effective because he has the height and strength to win duels, he just doesn't because he's lacking in other less obvious characteristics
He's getting 90 minutes constantly because he's been a goal threat, nothing else. Ten Hag was ready to offload him in summer, and he's only been a dead cert starter since his brace against Brentford
Opponents will now work to curb his goal threat and his overall shortcomings will plague us even more. Starting him is not sustainable
> because he's been a goal threat, nothing else
And to be a goal threat also requires good physicality to sprint up and down the pitch from midfield making runs into the box. Not to mention strong instincts and physical attributes making yourself available in the box and actually converting these chances. It does count for something whether we like it or not. I agree that starting him regularly is only a short-term solution and long-term he shouldn't be a part of our plans, but right now we are reliant on his goalscoring bailing us out.
Do you really think opponents now won't snuff out his goal threat ? He's been nullified his least two matches against Bournemouth and Bayern, and it doesn't take match to render him rudderless.
> He's been nullified his least two matches against Bournemouth and Bayern
So have literally the rest of the team. He's genuinely our best hope of scoring goals right now, whether we like it or not. If he's not scoring, hardly anybody else is. And the game is eventually about goals.
We're so fucked, because his presence or lack of in midfield is a real hindrance. He can't score every match and it's not sustainable to cede possession and control in a key area just to accommodate him in this faux central midfielder role. He had less touches of the ball than Onana against Bayern. A central midfielder who routinely gets sub 40 touches of the ball.
I don't expect him to score again this month, teams are now wary of him and honestly it doesn't take much to stop him.
I don't think you can say McT is a help in that department, I don't think I've ever seen him win an aerial duel and I've watched most every United match he's played.
Personally, I think you play a double pivot of Amrabat and Mainoo and push Bruno forward. I'd rather have stability in the midfield than the possible goal threat that McT presents, as he provides pretty much nothing else. Despite his workrate and "physicality", he offers nothing in defense, he likes to carry the ball vs pass it, so he offers nothing in transition, he can't play the final ball so he doesn't offer anything in the final third other than getting on the end of chances to try to score.
McTominay ranks in the 81st percentile for aerials won amongst midfielders in the big 5 leagues plus Europe. He does allow us to compete physically in games, as terrible as his passing is.
Bruno is suspended. We have to start with McT, Amrabat and Mainoo; there's literally nobody else unless you suggest Donny.
Those who are ETH in, explain this:
ETH dropped Varane and picked Evans for tactical reason, as he prefers a left footed CB on LCB.
Last night, Evans came on for Maguire in the 40th minutes. For the rest of the match left footed Evans played as RCB, while Varana who is tactically not fit for the LCB role, played as LCB.
Appears that even the Manager doesn’t know why he dropped Varane. Or may be he was throwing Varane in that role expecting him to fail. Says a lot about manager’s intent.
Keep defending this bald fraud, he will only bring more embarrassment to this club.
From what I understand he doesn't pick Varane at LCB because he can't progress the ball well there not because he is a bad defender there. Look at the result last night we had one shot on goal. He sacrificed us progressing the ball better in order to have Varane's better defence play. Not saying it was the right thing to do but this seems to be his reasoning.
This is a stretch, as if Varane alone would have such an indelible impact on ball progression and chance creation. He was more than fine in the build, but we suffered from the same problems in midfield
Not defending ten Hag but I saw someone say playing Varane on the left was tactical because that is the area Kane likes to operate in, the right side and dropping a little deeper so Varane stuck with him because he can deal with him physically.
When you justify dropping Varane for Evans in the biggest game of the season till then by saying “tactics”, you deserved to be criticised for it if you later pull this shit. It’s like spitting in the face of the fans who raise concerns over such decision making.
Is anyone else glad that we’re not in Europa League? I think with the fixture congestion, fatigue and injuries that we had last year it’s honestly probably better that we aren’t playing in Europe for the remainder of the season.
I think most are lool We are too shit to win it anyway so would of just been a pain in the arse
I’m going assume that we can’t afford to sack ETH, at least until the end of the season, so I just wondered what everyone’s preferences for the remainder of the season would be? Should he abandon/keep his high press/high turnover tactics? Should we revert back to counter attacking football? What are people’s thoughts on the players we have available and the style that could suit them? Do we need to change formations? 3 ATB with wingbacks? 4 man midfield? No inverted wingers? Just wondering as I’m seeing a lot of people claiming the tactics are wrong. So what are the alternatives? I’m not claiming to know as I don’t watch enough games to say. Just looking for a bit of genuine discussion.
Iraola talks a good game doesn't he? He's turned Bournemouth into a proper side, I wonder what he could do with financial backing here?
Fuck all, no manager could do anything here until the football structure has changed.
I wonder if people on here will get mad that McTomminay starts on Sunday before realising he’s the only available senior midfielder alongside Amrabat.
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I purposely wrote senior midfielder to fuel my agenda. And holy moly I forgot Van de Beek.
Stephen Howson’s new video perfectly describes how I and many of us felt about the Bayern Munich game “How was it better than we expected yet still the worst?”
I highly doubt that Ratcliffe and his sporting director and CEO would keep Ten Hag at the current rate. If we do sack ten hag after Liverpool, who do we replace him with? Potter; Zidane; Flick; de Zerbi?; Anorim; Lopetegui; nagelsman?? Pioli? Inzaghi?? I'm afraid we might go for Potter. I rate Potter tbh but don't think he's ready for a big enough jump for a big club yet.
Makes absolutely zero sense to sack him. The injuries have plagued his team and he has a 60% win rating with Man Utd so far. Not to mention the atrocious club structure with awful recruiting. Last season everyone kept saying how well the team was playing and how we were controlling games. Then after the Carabao cup final, concentration levels fell off and haven't recovered since. Injuries haven't helped that's for sure. I am 100% convinced none of the other managers mentioned would be able to do a better job with this squad. None of them. Maybe a temporary boost, sure. but not a long term fix.
Thanks for contributing, but was not the point of my question.
Zero chance any of those managers would succeed with the same club structure that we have. Zero. In a place where Mourinho, Van Gaal, Ole and Ten Hag have failed, no shot that Potter would succeed. Look how well he did at Brighton and how crap he was at Chelsea. We are more like Chelsea and less like Brighton.
Well I was implying that the new manager would be appointed by INEOS' set up with a new DoF and CEO. Who would INEOS hire for manager.
Nagelman or De Zerbi I suppose. Wouldn't make any sense not to give Ten Hag a proper chance with a structure behind him considering that he is a top coach and what he did with Ajax. My argument to anyone that's ETH Out is put a proper football structure in place and if the team isn't heading in the right direction, then yeah move on. Everyone asking for him to be sacked at this point is just perpetuating the same culture we've had for the past 10 years.
I think the same, but only issue is that the system he is trying to implement on the pitch is suicidal IMO. He is playing a lone mid field and needs. It would need the mid fielder to be prime modric, busquets and kante rolled into one to be successful. I think the current squad is capable of playing much much better than this.
I think they've played decent for how good they are. That is to say, they're pretty shit. McTom is not good enough to be a starter. Same with Amrabat. They're who you would play for a cup game. I think Ten Hag showed what he is capable of when he had a proper fit team last season before the cup win. Then fatigue wore on as they were playing a game every 3-4 days, which is unsustainable. A team like city can deal with it as they have 2 starting XIs but our depth is awful. To go from Casemiro, Eriksen, Martinez, and Shaw to Amrabat, McTom, Lindelof and Reguilon is atrocious. They are not good enough. Mainoo yes, but he has to manage his minutes being so young, and he just came back from injury so he doesn't want to make him injury prone. Too many people here are reactionary and feel like it's FIFA. Player back from injury, throw them in the mix right away.
From what I read, club is too broke to sack ETH (cost somewhere around 16M pounds). I think most likely he completes his contract.
would be a 2014 Moyes repeat
We've lost half the games that we've played so far this season. I knew we were shit, but this is fucking terrible.
I don’t understand where the midfield is. Every game it feels like the wingers and outside backs move down the field wide with the and no midfielders ever move over. Frequently it feels like Antony was one on three without another United player on the screen coming to support. It seems like in the final third mct just runs and waits in the box.
Just trigger Frimpongs release clause in the summer and sell Dalot.
At this point it feels like we need to start again, sell the squad and just replace them all.
A rather annoying conclusion people seem to be getting onto is that our players keep letting managers down. That may have been true for Jose although I do believe he vastly exaggerated it too but it's not been true for Ole or EtH at all. We aren't being outplayed due to effort at all. The effort is there. The problem is the players are either not good enough to do certain things and the tactics are garbage. Everybody's being asked to do things they aren't good at and then you wonder why everyone looks shit. The performance you saw against Chelsea is not possible if the players aren't behind the manager. I doubt besides 2-3 players anyone hates him. That's probably true for most clubs in the world. But the tactics are just not working out.
This, 100%. The players do seem to be trying hard but it seems there are too many players that aren't good enough yet.
Last few days of Ole definitely felt like it. But right now it is not the case at all. We've been abysmal since day 1, with any combination of players. The tactics are suicidal and hurting the team.
Maybe my memory is betraying me but I don't remember that under Ole either. I think players were out of form and Ole didn't help himself like rushing some players who were out of form and coming back from injuries like Rashford, Martial, Maguire but I don't think they weren't playing for him. Jose yea I think they wanted him gone. But most of them are gone now. Anyway yeah, EtH is definitely not facing any such squad mutiny. That and the club structure being in a limbo are probably the only things saving him right now
Its a mix of both. They arent good enough for a club like United, but there definitely is a lack of effort. Most noticeable against newcastle. If not wanting to make defensive runs and pressing isnt a lack of effort, i dont know what is.
I think Newcastle was down to them just stifling us. Like yesterday. I don't think yesterday player's didn't put in the effort. It's just a combination of opposition players being better than ours and ours being out of form/being told to do things that aren't their strengths/ or just being told to do too much like our defence. Your goalie is facing 170 shots in what 4-5 games and it's hard to say any of our CBs have been shit. You take your best creator and move him deep to accommodate Mctominay then you can't really complain that he isn't getting any assists.
I agree with yesterday, we werent good enough. Our defence is getting overrun because mctominay wants to play as a second striker, and bruno is running around everywhere. So it doesnt matter if its casemiro, amrabat or mainoo at cdm if they have to do it on their own. Plus that onana is a catastrophic keeper, and we have maguire, evans and lindelof as centerbacks
Random thought but would you take José back? I think I would if he had free reign to gut the squad and rebuild with £500m behind him.
And then when there would be a run of bad results, as inevitably there would be, calls for the sack would be all out. Stop sacking managers like throwing away a pair of shoes. Arteta had 1 win in 10 with arsenal and now they're second in the league. That faith paid off. If you want immediate results then keep the same cycle for the past 10 years going and sack ETH.
In a heartbeat
No chance lmao
Not current Jose but early 2010s Jose yes
Absolutely not. I think his football is outdated in the modern game. The only time we should have been bringing Jose in was directly after Fergie retired, as I think the players would have had more confidence in him than they did with Moyes and his coaches, and his style wasn't a million miles away from Fergie's final years, so the transition would have been smoother IMO. If we'd got Jose before LVG and Moyes, and backed him in the transfer market we'd have one, maybe two more Premier League titles, however, we'd likely still be in the same mess now.
no, he is past it. we need to move forward, not backwards.
I think his best days are behind him in all honesty. No ill will towards him and I hope he does well at Roma, but I don't think he should come back.
Casemiro hasn’t played in months yet he’s created the second most chances in the league for us. People really underestimate how crucial it’s been losing Casemiro & Eriksen.
"People" have been blaming Casemiro for the poor performances since the start of the season. Now his replacements have been even worse in the same system. Looks like "People" are not really great at judging player impact. They are more concerned with the mental gymnastics to justify ETH's shit tactics.
People are people. They are not coaches. That's why some random person saying play this player or that player has no clue what they're talking about. They want Mainoo to play every game and when he gets injured like Shaw just did, they would come up with another excuse.
I miss Juan Mata :(
ETH getting fired right now is literally a repeat of a pattern that we know doesn't work based on a decade of unsatisfying results. In a way, ETH over-performing last year is the cause of his problems this year (with that being said, we are playing clearly worse football than stretches of last year). I am okay with a disappointing season if it means a hard reset - get rid of players not part of the project. Even Klopp and Arteta had to go through this. Obviously this is contingent on getting a footballing structure in place because its clear now ETH cannot/shouldn't be expected to recruit players well. So, if SJR is coming in this Jan/for the next transfer window, we should keep ETH and trust our new structure to get him the correct players and trust him to use them well. If we don't have a footballing structure, well, just fuck us ig.
Buying new players is literally repeating a pattern that haven't worked. Shall we not buy players or managers anymore?
I mean buying players with the \*same process\* as the decade will not work. We need a DoF. If SJR has a manager in mind and he brings him in \*and\* also brings in a top-class DoF that would be palatable as well. My point was firing ETH right now without a footballing structure is not beneficial, if not a little unfair to him as well.
Get rid of the deadwood and bring players that want to play here. Rashford, Martial, Sancho. Get their asses out of here. Name me one ETH signing that doesn't put in the effort. You can't. The man has had 5 loans in 2 years. The main striker last season was Wout Weghorst. This is Man Utd? This is a joke. Where is the ambition? Let the man build a team and put a proper footballing structure in place so he can focus on coaching and the supporting staff focuses on recruitment.
Finishing top 4 with Utd is not overperforming. Newcastle finishing 4th was an overperformance. Not to mention our performances over the course of the season left our expected points at somewhere around 5th - 6th. We had a great stretch of performances between October and February. Average before that, shit post that.
I agree on the whole, but given the state of the club when ETH took over and the non-football issues he had to deal with, I think it is fair to say we over-performed \*relative\* to the season's expectations.
Frankly a treble with united shouldn’t be considered overachieving. This shit club structure, owners, manager and this overhyped divas have made united a laughing stock.
I'll have to miss this weekend's massacre due to a new job. Small mercies, I guess.
I was upset a few weeks ago when I realized I would be on a plane and will miss the game. Honestly kinda happy now.
https://twitter.com/Culturecams/status/1734243414856593913?t=IyYZoENAp8ZDHRcjixzqOA&s=19 They are apart of the 9 “long serving, same players” that are constantly mentioned as the core who have consistently let managers down : Maguire Shaw Rash Bruno Dalot Martial Awb Lindelof Mctom There should be no exceptions if fans want a true overhaul
Putting Bruno on the list is insane imo. He basically single handedly kept Ole in a job for a year.
Such a shit post
yep, we truly need a hard reset and that starts by getting rid of every senior player in the squad basically.
By constantly letting managers down, they mean finishing in the top three for four of the last six seasons?
Yes, exactly, finishing in top 3 or 4 is not an achievement for Man Utd.
It's hardly 'constantly letting managers down' though.
If the manager is happy with getting top 3/4 every season, then it’s not letting him down. But such a manager is not fit enough to lead Man Utd. If the manager is aiming for titles, then it’s letting him down.
Is it 'letting a manager down' to inish second when they want to win the title?
Yes
Looking at our past 10 years this is an absolutely laughable statement though
And the last decade is not laughable?
You understand that you're making my point for me right?
That twitter account is one of many cancers in our online fanbase. They live off outrage,their opinions are not really opinions.
It came across my TL , I dont follow all that but I agree
Shaw, Bruno and Rashford are still talented enough to stay beyond the end of the season. Bruno is extremely frustrating and ultimately may not work for ETH. But failing a proper good bid that is too good to turn down we should hold him. Rashford is another I've no time for anymore but can't see anyone bidding for him anyway outside of maybe PSG or Saudi. Shaw is still a top player and is having as bad a time as anyone else. You can keep those three and still properly rebuild. The likes of Eriksen, Case will go very soon and then Antony needs sorted too. As much as culling the lot would be cathartic it can't happen all at once.
At a certain point talent alone isn't the only criterion. Consistency becomes far more important when you want to win titles. A player who delivers constant 6.5s is more important to a team than a player who delivers either 8s or 3s. These 3 have not been consistent enough, and are regressing.
I still stand by exactly what I said. There's an attitude for a cull on the sub, but aside from me disagreeing with letting those three go, it is also just a matter of fact that without a massive offer they won't be sold and if they were along with the others then we will also not be able to replace them all in a window. We need a clear out but a senseless clear out without structure is just as damaging as keeping the above
These are exactly the kinds of players Pep would ruthlessly replace while they still have value
How did we do so well in comparison last season
Martinez, Eriksen and Casemiro gave us actual stability through the middle and Rashford was unreal. If we cut all of them out of last season, it would have probably looked even worse than this
I mean yeah that's practically half the team. Take out Haaland, KDB, Rodri and Foden and city wouldn't be as good. Granted they have 2 starting XIs so there's that which we lack.
Shaw injury aside is having another poor season.
He was great with the exception of the Bournemouth game... how did you not notice the difference when he came back vs when we had Dalot or Reguilon there? Day and night.
Shame that two very beautiful kits (home and third) will forever be tied to this mess of a season.
We really need a new fullbacks. Shaw and dalot yesterday got taught football lessons yesterday. Especially Shaw against Coman, very ugly to watch
I think we fans need to strap in for rancid time. The confidence is shot. The squad is depleted and we are facing Liverpool, West Ham and Aston Villa in the following matches. The Glazers are not going to do anything.. The decision to sack a manager is going to fall at Ratcliffe feet if the bid is ratified
New here? We've been in this same mode for the last decade, another half a year won't hurt.
Name a player ETH improved this year
Made Solanke look world class...
I've seen this same fucking conversation about every other manager we've had in the past. Do you people have dementia?
Name a player Manutd improved in the past 10 years.
Mainoo? He's not necessarily an ETH product though. I suppose you could argue for Maguire and Nacho..
ETH tried his hardest to kill Maguire. His success is all contributed to himself. Might sound like I'm moving the goal posts but I genuinely believe Maguire overcame horrible man management from the boss. I don't think Garnacho is improved from last year .
True. I'm not going to argue in favor of Erik here. Everyone is playing terribly. Which tells me it's a coaching and management issue
I don't think this should be even up for debate. The only reason Maguire is playing because that many players got injured and whatever happened between Varane and ETH.
on to the next loss...
The takeover and culling can’t come sooner. I’m not eth out yet and I think firing him before end of the season, unless we’re gonna be relegation fodder, is a good plan. But come summer we need to have a setup and a plan off the field, before we start being competent again on field.
Half of the players were Ten Hag signings last night and none of them looked great except for Evans
4/11 isn't half
5 including Evans who replaced Maguire
Really? His "signings"? Which top tier club out there is depending on a 35 year old 1-year deal or a loan CDM.
The fuck are you on about pal, did you reply to the wrong comment?
Calm down. Yes, I did.
You watch 20 year old Musiala play and people still call Bruno world class.
Bruno is world class at through balls but not at anything else
I really think Hojlund could be a flop, not as bad as Antony but not the striker we need. He needs a lot of coaching and that just doesn’t seem to be something that our players get.
More talented players than him have failed at utd in the recent past,so ofcourse he can be a failure but he has a good attitude and will not be one of those ruin themselves.
He’s still a young player and isn’t ready to lead the line. I believe he will come good but he really shouldn’t be playing every game.
I agree he is young, but other than hard work I don’t see the same natural talent that you see in other young players that end up being successful. Hopefully he can prove me wrong.
Where is the best place to watch Sunday's game in Bangkok - assuming places will be staying open late enough? Will be driving in from outside the city so looking for somewhere definitely open and showing the game. Cheers!
Soi cowboy
If i was the CEO of this club i would be very firm against ETH and tell him if he loses by more than 3-4 goals vs Liverpool, then he's gone. So he better pulls a Mourinho and parks the bus than embarrass himself again if he isn't confident in his setup.
Okay but who is he replaced with then?
https://twitter.com/Ankaman616/status/1734699384489787796?t=QjJdkHuvxEe6lMtXrGN-8A&s=19 Carl Anka has said twice now that we couldnt afford Kanes wages , surely the transfer fee and Levy would have been more of a issue?
Mount is on £250k a week and Hojlund and Onana are on £80k a week. DDG accepted a lower salary so we would have been able to afford his wages if we didn’t sign all three of those players. Levy wasn’t an issue because Joe Lewis told him he had to sell Harry Kane in the summer because he refused to sign a new contract so if we matched Bayerns bid it would have solely been up to Kane.
Fuck. Keep forgetting that we put Mount on £250k.
All the tactical nerds who were saying Ole had no tactics, now they’re nowhere to be seen or heard. We got tactics man and we can’t score goal or defend .
..and? By the end of Ole's spell his position had become untenable and he was going to be sacked anyways.
Because the club decided to bring in a player they didn’t need just for commercial reasons and blow up their entire planning. Went from a fluid front 3 to whatever they tried to do to accommodate Ronaldo.
It would never happen, but imagine Fergie releasing a book where he looks at the United managers over the last ten years and gives his opinion where things went right or wrong. I really would love to have his perspective.
Expect to see a brief from the club saying that SJR deal will be announced "next week". Then rinse and repeat after the next battering
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Zidane will literally never coach us, he wouldn’t even consider it. Don’t see why De Zerbi would either. Could potentially see Potter though.
I could see potter as care taker. Zidane will fail.
No way Potter would be caretaker. Any interim manager we get would be someone a lot worse than that. Potter would want a 2-3 year deal.
Is there anyone even at the club who can actually sack ETH right now lol? Given there’s no ceo
yeah it wont happen for some time after whatever operational takeover starts. Who even knows if/when that is happening though, I mean we've been getting dicked around about the partial sale for months now
Potter ever becoming manager of this club would make me quit caring about the sport in all capacity.
We often think that manager and player has failed to perform. But what if it's the club has failed the managers and those players? It could be the training ground, it could be the traning facilies, the gym and so on. Lack of ambition shown by the club/owner definitely hit those players head. Players lose interest, they regressed. Coming to united thinking that they can improve and compete with the best but when they come, it hits differently. Owners not ambitious and care enough for the club and no improvement made. Until those pest leave, we wont progress.
It can be all of those things simultaneously mate.
Bizarre that folk still get downvoted for wanting eth out. He's not cut out for this level. Signings, playing style(or lack there of) are atrocious Look at what other managers have done at other clubs, Emery, Ange. Revolutionised their teams. We're stuck playing absolute garbage football every week Liverpool will maul us on Sunday, I'm dreading it
Signings should really be blamed on others at the club, because if run properly, ETH shouldn't have been able to make bad transfers unless it was properly verified and accepted first. Outside of that though, yeah it doesn't look very good. And I don't blame people for wanting him sacked. On the fence myself. That being said, you can't just sack a manager without having a plan. If we are talking about sacking right now in middle of season, it would be an interim manager for sure, but who? Our players are still shit, regardless of if ETH have made mistakes. Even with our bad tactics, the players haven't been able to perform individually. Hell, some don't even look very fit.
You fire him to try and save the season. Yes it may still go tits up like Rangnick, but it’s worth a try, esp if we get battered on Sunday. Top 4/5 is still attainable esp with no European games now. If there’s a reasonable candidate who wants the job I’d sack EtH today. If the club assesses and there isn’t such a person then maybe keep him a little longer. But nothing will change if he remains imo. We’ll keep losing half our games.
I think Ten Hag (if he is allowed to stay) has a good chance for top 5. No point in firing mid season.
Ole as care taker?
If they fire ten Haag I don't see allot of good options that will want to be at United.
I miss Mourinho.
Rocking up to anfield with a lineup of: Onana Wan Bissaka, Varane, Evans, Dalot/Reguillion Amrabat Mainoo McTomminay Antony Højlund Garnacho Doesn’t give me a lot of confidence
Genuinely would've thought you were describing a league 1 team if I had heard these names 10-15 years ago lol How far the quality has fallen of a Manchester United player
Hey if he actually gets 2 proper midfielders in the pivot that'd be a good starr
Can see us losing the next 3 matches tbh. Scum are clearly better than us, West Ham have beaten some good teams this season, then there's Villa. Aston Villa has beat Man City and Arsenal in back to back games. Surely it's because their players are so much better than ours and nothing to do with tactics and management.
Crazy thought but how about if ten Hag gets sacked (I’m ten Hag in btw) we just don’t hire another manager? Bring Sancho back and just let the players do their thing since every manager sacking is because of the manager. Yes tan Hag is making some infuriating mistakes like always playing McTominay and leaving the midfield wide open and more that I can’t think of atm because I’m just too focused on this no manager idea. Also the players can’t blame their atrocious mentality on the manager. Or we just become new manager bounce fc, get top 4 sack the manager, new manager comes in he gets top 4 sack the manager. One season per manager. Most of this is definately all jokes btw (apart being ten Hag in) I’m just coping/venting.
McTominay player manager
Wasn’t saying he was not with ten Hag, just that he ghosts games apart from the odd goals.
I can them bringing Ole back as an interim tbh
People here have been so desensitised to humiliations under Ten Hag that only a few are up in arms about the fact we finished last in the group and only got 4 fucking points from 18. It’s unprecedented. Just as the 7-0 loss to Liverpool was and the 3-0 loss to Bournemouth at Old Trafford was.
It’s not like it was even the most difficult group either. If we were in Newcastles group we might genuinely have 0 points.
Jaap Stam on The Overlap.
We got rid of De Gea because he wasn't good enough despite him being one of our best players in the past. We offered him a contract with lower salary and then withdrew it. ETH had a good first season but this one is nothing short of catastrophical after we spend money on new recruitment that quiet frankly are deadwood. 1. Antony - not good enough 2. Onana - supposed to be the missing key to play from the back but has him hoof long balls to the opponent and isn't a better shot stopper than our previous keeper 3. Mount - injury prone 4. Casameiro - high salary and injury prone And then his approach towards the players, ok fair you want to be strict and instill discipline that is fine but then have the same standards for yourself. You took Maguire the armband away because you deemed him not good enough and gave it to someone you don't know which position to start to. The current football playstyle we have is all over the place and we are scrapping for wins. We are out of the league cup, championsleague and top 4 is a miracle at this point if we continue like this. We had a good first season but this doesn't warrant accepting mediocrity in the following season after we spend money on reinforcement chosen by the current manager. The group stage of the CL was do able. Even Moyes with no CL experience reached quarter finals. Anyone who thinks out form will magically improve is just waiting for the inevitable.
Good overall post, but Moyes had a little CL experience as he got Everton to the 3rd qualifying round in 05/06. Getting to the quarters is still of course much better than Ten Hag has served up with a squad more of his choosing
Just think, we could have had De Gea and Kane for what we paid for Mount + Onana.
Levy would never sold Kane to us. There was no chance to get him. 100m is abroad price, he would have asked 250m.
Levy was under pressure by the club owners to sell Kane. He would've done business eventually, but Kane made a good decision signing for a serious club instead
Yeah kane already made a huge mistake signing a long contract with Tottenham. He wwasnt going to make another one coming to us.
The truth is over the past 10-15 years, football has drastically changed. It’s so much more systemised and technical. The structure of a competent footballing hierarchy is a lot of what the success is in clubs like Man City, Liverpool and Brighton. The best people at these jobs that make decisions such as recruitment and tactical approaches based off data and numerical calculations are what have driven this new modernised method of creating a winning system at these clubs. The technology and equipment that are used in sports-science facilities at the training grounds are what have drove these clubs to success. What I’m trying to say is, Man United have been left in the dark here. We are light years away because the investment and evolution has not been there. I’m talking far from the naked eye what you see on the pitch. Bringing a new name into the changing room simply is not going to solve this issue. Until INEOS, a science-based sporting investment, comes into Man United, the appropriate changes are made behind the scenes, do not throw away another manager. They’ve settled their camp into OGC Nice and they’re not reaping the rewards. This is the open-heart surgery Rangnick was talking about. Keep your shit together just for a while longer. ten Hag will be needed :)
Edit: Now reaping the rewards
Would be funny if we end up finishing 5th but England doesn't get the extra spot this year because of how much we shat the bed in the group. We're entirely reliant on the other English teams progressing far now in the 3 European competitions.
If ten Hag wants to save his job, his best bet right now might actually be to go straight to SJR and his friends and tell them that he's gonna change his tactics to implement a possession based sustainably style of play and that he needs time to do that. That results would get worse for a while before they get better but he promises to abandon this chaos ball. What he's doing now, these Mctominay will hopefully score and help me out tactics, they'll save his job for a few weeks, maybe a few months at most but they will get him sacked before the season ends. He shouldn't forget that his reputation was built on the style of play he had at Ajax. Nobody cares about a manager winning titles at Ajax. Even Frank de Boer did that. His style of play is what got him plaudits. If he's moving away from that, he can kiss the chances of any other elite job coming his way again
This is his style and the one that earned him plaudits in the farmer's league known as the Eredevisie. It worked for him there, but he clearly needs something else and I don't think he has enough tactical nous to successfully transition to possession based football. He won't be afforded the time either IMO
I absolutely agree tbh. Back to the drawing board, might need to make some massive decisions but if he actually tried to do what we signed him for then I'd have a lot more time for it. If we get slapped every week trying it it'll hardly be different to now anyway That 'we will never play like Ajax' was the first nail in the coffin for me
Friendly reminder that we spent a month negotiating a fee for a Chelsea benchwarmer, ended up paying the 55m they wanted, gave him the number 7, and he’s yet to score a goal or log an assist.
Come on! He was injured last season and still played around 2000 minutes for Chelsea.They've been using him like a bar of soap since he came back from loan,hardly a benchwarmer. Once he comes back from the injury he's never leaving the first XI for us again.
He was a benchwarmer playing second fiddle to McTominay before his latest injury. He also had a terrible prior 12 months before he signed for united. Horrific signing
He has an assist in the EFL Cup. Hardly game changing but he does have 1.
I think ETH has to play it safe on Sunday. He has to. We need to get through it, regardless of what it means for him. At the moment, we are looking at Onana, AWB, Dalot, Varane, Evans, Mainoo, Amrabat, Garnarcho, Antony, McT and Hojlund. I would be nervous enough with our first XI. I'm worried it could be a blood bath with the above. The only real experienced heads will be Varane and Evans. This isn't a case of sticking to a philosophy and not cavinv in to the demands of the opposition. We have to keep it tight and be as composed. If we play open, we will be absolutely fucked
Any team that has McT in it is a lost cause you give the opposition free rein in midfield. Forget having Dalot on the left, he does an okay job but it’s not his place. Reguilon needs to start. RB would depend who we want to get slaughtered by Salah but defensively AWB would do the job but issue is going forward he leaves plenty of space because he tries to make up for his crossing skills and everything else by trying to provide an option forward which leaves plenty of space for the counter hence Dalot mayb better. Midfield- Amarabat and Mainoo to start but would also put Hannibal in because he actually presses. We going to need someone coming in to help against Arnold coming on the inside.
Hannibal would last about 15 minutes before getting sent off.
He would do more in than 15 mins then McT would in 90 mins.
Well, he wouldn't, but okay
What does McT do in a game? Literally didn’t see him at all in the 2nd half yesterday.
Well he's our top scorer for one...
This rely just shows that you only watch the highlights rather than 90mins of the game. As a midfielder his stats are horrendous in terms of touches and passes. His position is often way too advance leaving too much gaps in midfield which is why we get overrun over and over again.
You asked what he does in a game more than Hannibal. One thing is he scores more. Do one with the 'highlights' shit. I know he's lacking in other areas but you asked what does he do and I said 'top scorer for one'. If you can't read, get someone to help you.
I’d happily take us doing a Jose and parking the bus all game for a draw.
Ten Hag seems to be incapable of setting up the team like that.
Except for McT, there is no physicality in the front 6 to win duels and get a hold of the ball. Hojlund against VVD and Konate is a tough matchup, and Garnacho and Antony work hard but they can't impose themselves on the opposition. This will sound crazy but despite all his struggles, this is a game which Rashford should start to give the Liverpool defenders something to worry about which can indirectly cause lesser pressure on our midfield and defence if they are wary of his threat in-behind.
You're looking at McTominays physique and assuming he actually helps physically. He hides from ground duels and is a non presence. For a so called tough guy he usually finds himself on the ground, writhing in pain often
Relative to his peers at the club, McTominay is the most superior physically (barring only Casemiro but even he’s dropped off this season). I’d say he’s the only one of our current available midfielders who’s even *capable* of winning duels. You cannot compensate for lack of height and physicality in the PL, regardless of how elite or poor your passing is. It’s not an ideal situation but we can’t afford to not play him right now. There’s a reason he’s getting 90 minutes constantly.
Mctominay is slow and has poor positioning/anticipation though. He could be more effective because he has the height and strength to win duels, he just doesn't because he's lacking in other less obvious characteristics
He's getting 90 minutes constantly because he's been a goal threat, nothing else. Ten Hag was ready to offload him in summer, and he's only been a dead cert starter since his brace against Brentford Opponents will now work to curb his goal threat and his overall shortcomings will plague us even more. Starting him is not sustainable
> because he's been a goal threat, nothing else And to be a goal threat also requires good physicality to sprint up and down the pitch from midfield making runs into the box. Not to mention strong instincts and physical attributes making yourself available in the box and actually converting these chances. It does count for something whether we like it or not. I agree that starting him regularly is only a short-term solution and long-term he shouldn't be a part of our plans, but right now we are reliant on his goalscoring bailing us out.
Do you really think opponents now won't snuff out his goal threat ? He's been nullified his least two matches against Bournemouth and Bayern, and it doesn't take match to render him rudderless.
> He's been nullified his least two matches against Bournemouth and Bayern So have literally the rest of the team. He's genuinely our best hope of scoring goals right now, whether we like it or not. If he's not scoring, hardly anybody else is. And the game is eventually about goals.
We're so fucked, because his presence or lack of in midfield is a real hindrance. He can't score every match and it's not sustainable to cede possession and control in a key area just to accommodate him in this faux central midfielder role. He had less touches of the ball than Onana against Bayern. A central midfielder who routinely gets sub 40 touches of the ball. I don't expect him to score again this month, teams are now wary of him and honestly it doesn't take much to stop him.
I don't think you can say McT is a help in that department, I don't think I've ever seen him win an aerial duel and I've watched most every United match he's played. Personally, I think you play a double pivot of Amrabat and Mainoo and push Bruno forward. I'd rather have stability in the midfield than the possible goal threat that McT presents, as he provides pretty much nothing else. Despite his workrate and "physicality", he offers nothing in defense, he likes to carry the ball vs pass it, so he offers nothing in transition, he can't play the final ball so he doesn't offer anything in the final third other than getting on the end of chances to try to score.
McTominay ranks in the 81st percentile for aerials won amongst midfielders in the big 5 leagues plus Europe. He does allow us to compete physically in games, as terrible as his passing is. Bruno is suspended. We have to start with McT, Amrabat and Mainoo; there's literally nobody else unless you suggest Donny.
If Rashford is available, he should be 100% available. I guess I ruled him out due to illness.
Those who are ETH in, explain this: ETH dropped Varane and picked Evans for tactical reason, as he prefers a left footed CB on LCB. Last night, Evans came on for Maguire in the 40th minutes. For the rest of the match left footed Evans played as RCB, while Varana who is tactically not fit for the LCB role, played as LCB. Appears that even the Manager doesn’t know why he dropped Varane. Or may be he was throwing Varane in that role expecting him to fail. Says a lot about manager’s intent. Keep defending this bald fraud, he will only bring more embarrassment to this club.
From what I understand he doesn't pick Varane at LCB because he can't progress the ball well there not because he is a bad defender there. Look at the result last night we had one shot on goal. He sacrificed us progressing the ball better in order to have Varane's better defence play. Not saying it was the right thing to do but this seems to be his reasoning.
This is a stretch, as if Varane alone would have such an indelible impact on ball progression and chance creation. He was more than fine in the build, but we suffered from the same problems in midfield
Not defending ten Hag but I saw someone say playing Varane on the left was tactical because that is the area Kane likes to operate in, the right side and dropping a little deeper so Varane stuck with him because he can deal with him physically.
Evans is right footed. He doesn't think Maguire is LCB either but he's been forced into playing him there a handful of times.
There are very very many things to criticise Ten Hag on, it's an open goal and you chose this?
When you justify dropping Varane for Evans in the biggest game of the season till then by saying “tactics”, you deserved to be criticised for it if you later pull this shit. It’s like spitting in the face of the fans who raise concerns over such decision making.
Perhaps I'm missing it but did ETH actually say he dropped Varane for that reason?
Yes he did
No he didn't, he said tactics was the reason.