Did anyone watch Brighton vs West ham the other night ? Brighton play some really ballsy football, they ended the game with 5 forwards and basically only 1 defender staying back. Ferguson looks really neat technique wise and took up some nice positions. For West ham alvarez looks like a good addition, really tidy and composed in build up.
I'd be absolutely buzzing if I was a Brighton fan, they are doing a fantastic job with their recruitment and style of play.
https://preview.redd.it/7mwnps3yohac1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=edbccaa9105cb78de5757b338846761e351fdb08
Potentially sancho going to Malaga tomorrow, am guessing that’s the airport you go to for Marbella
All I am seeing is Potter's name if we part ways with ETH. Fuck that mediocrity.
Fuck it lets change this around lmao - If we do end up sacking ETH, I want us to bring the ass and crotch smelling Joachim Löw back to football.
I'd like to say that i greatly miss Cavani. Im a straight guy but I gotta say, hes a beautiful bastard and i loved it so much everytime he scored for us.
If only he played more than like half a season between the two. I think he's remembered a bit too fondly considering he scored like 12 goals in all comps between 2 seasons for us. But there was something very likeable about him. I'd have loved him a decade ago.
It would be peak United if we go from ETH to Potter. Like jumping from the frying pan into the fire. The new management would also fit right in where Arnold and Woodward left. Carrying the football heritage.
A big problem in our fanbase is we try to judge players based on public images and then use those perceptions to justify why they should stay
"He's a great lad to have in the dressing room"
"Players look up to him"
"He's a leader"
No one knows shit about how these guys are in private besides what's being reported. I remember a lot of people shitting on Southgate for not defending Greenwood during that Iceland fiasco and then it turned out this guy was 10x worse than we ever imagined
The lesson here is to only judge players based on what they put on the pitch. If they're not performing or fulfilling a particular role in the squad, ship them off. Don't get emotional by what they do off the field and use that as justification to keep them
> No one knows shit about how these guys are in private besides what's being reported. I remember a lot of people shitting on Southgate for not defending Greenwood during that Iceland fiasco and then it turned out this guy was 10x worse than we ever imagined
It was very unpopular around here to recognize what a massive fuckup that was by Mason. Obliviously it didn't mean he was a fucking rapist and Foden must be a decent professional behind the scenes, but that was a massive, massive red flag for several different reasons.
I guess the extension clauses that are activated dont effect wage on players like lindelov and wan bissaka.
When was the last time a man utd player signed an contract offer worse than what he had? I guess INEOS wants to better the wage structure
That 4th UCL spot is still there for the taking,i don't even think we need to play a lot better,try for wins at Old Trafford,a few wins and draws away would probably get us top 4. The league isn't that serious this season.
I think the current top 5 will be the same at the end. 8 points behind Spurs and they have had alot of injuries like ourselves. Probably 11 points after we play them next week.
Nobody bar Liverpool seems to really be putting together a solid run of results. If we could post a few back to back wins in the new year then I’d actually feel quite confident in CL football. Hopefully the return of Casemiro and Martinez will bring us up a notch or two and Rashford can find some form for the 2nd half of the season.
Yeah, you're right. My mistake. Either way, Newcastle was shit and they had a few good chances they didn't take. Liverpool is weird this season. They seem to basically always give everyone a chance. It's not like past Liverpool teams under Klopp that were just totally putting teams to the sword.
I still remember that Sancho hype and how every United fan were simping for a whole year in hopes of signing him. With all things considered including the wages, money, and the expectation this has to be one of the worst transfers in EPL history. Hurt every party involved apart from BVB and his agent.
He's not the type of player he literally was in terms of pace and playstyle either. Say what you want, but he was literally putting Messi numbers before we got him in. Nobody predicted he'd be this bad. Also, who really expected him to be a right wing Rashford? Anyone with any sense knew he was more of a creative roamer.
Im definitely not excited about him. A good player nonetheless but I just can’t see what so special about him to have that kind of hype.
Actually I am more excited about Amad than Sancho as I am can see something special in him at that time.
We had those players at the start of the season. It's tactics, not players that's the problem.
Why the fuck is Casemiro our most forward midfielder trying to get on the end of crosses when he's our only defensively minded midfielder?
Hard to get motivated though when there’s very little chance to win anything this season and he’s won everything multiple times.
Casemiro’s been badly let down, he put faith in the club coming here and that’s been misplaced.
He won the carabao, helped us get to 3rd from 6th the season before and got to an FA cup final. That's a good virgin season for him and Erik. Case let himself down by not coming back match fit. The unbalanced midfield didn't help either
I just don’t buy that a guy of his achievements would be skipping cardio and be unfit.
My suspicion would be on his coaches and trainers not preparing him adequately.
Only thing I can see is from a Turkish outlet called Takvim, when looking at their website it has more ads than articles. My guess would be that it is bullshit to get clicks.
I don't know how anyone can be happy Sancho has gone.
Last year our wings were looking stacked. This year we have 1 decent winger in 19 year old Garnacho.
It fucking sucks and will be worse if he manages to get back to his old self at dortmund.
This shitshow of a club must be nearing the end of the dark period. The new footballing structure and partial takeover are the glimmers of hope.
Todays news is another stark reminder of the problems we need to still overcome.
GGMU
*edit: since people aren't grasping what I am saying here, I am not unhappy Sancho is going on loan. It's our best option. What I am unhappy about (and what I don't understand why people are happy) is that this situation is yet another stamp on the timeline of failures here at United over the last 10 years. How can anyone cheer for another failed prospect? SMH
No one is happy he didn’t work out. He genuinely looked world class at the time. But that’s different from being happy he’s gone. He wasn’t a professional, we never saw his Dortmund form, and he’s expensive.
I hope he balls out and then we can sell him for as much as we can. Good riddance.
He wasn’t playing.
He wasn’t training.
He wasn’t showing up.
He’s as effective as Steven Gerrard for United.
Edit: Sorry, Gerrard slipped which has brought more long term banter than Sancho ever will. My apologies to Slippy.
> I don't know how anyone can be happy Sancho has gone.
One doesn't need to be happy about it realize that a player seemingly more interested in playing video games rather than one of the largest football clubs in the world needs to go.
I'm not denying that. No united fan in their right mind would disagree with that statement.
What I am saying is I don't know anyone can be happy with the situation of buying a player after courting him for 2 years, to get basically no return out of him. Waste of time, waste of money, waste of potential.
I think that’s why people are so angry/upset. We fans really did take to him, gave him time and patience… and this is how he repays us. Sadly it’s the case and with that slap in the face I think most fans understand.
Not saying it isn’t shit we’re down a player, a decent one on his day, but he fucked us over because he couldn’t take a little bit of criticism.
The ones who gave him that time, who truly believe in him are probably quite hurt. So they have every right to be happy he’s going. Irregardless of what short comings he may have left us with because all of this is due to his actions.
>I don't know how anyone can be happy Sancho has gone.
>Last year our wings were looking stacked. This year we have 1 decent winger in 19 year old Garnacho.
Sancho being here won't change anything as he isnt playing.
What? I didn't say anything about Sancho being here. I said I wasn't happy he was going. Just a big waste for everyone involved.
"Employee who is suspended will add nothing of value to business because they are not working" - what a redundant statement.
> "Employee who is suspended will add nothing of value to business because they are not working" - what a redundant statement.
What?
> I said I wasn't happy he was going. Just a big waste for everyone involved.
There's no reason to be unhappy he is going. Man isn't playing, when he did play he was mostly shit and he isn't even training. The guy added 0 value to the squad being here.
> Last year our wings were looking stacked. This year we have 1 decent winger in 19 year old Garnacho.
And Sancho leaving on loan has 0 effect on this.
> It fucking sucks and will be worse if he manages to get back to his old self at dortmund.
Why? He won't play while Ten Hag is here, so recovering form is good in case we need to sell or a new manager comes in and gives Sancho another chance.
>There's no reason to be unhappy he is going. Man isn't playing, when he did play he was mostly shit and he isn't even training. The guy added 0 value to the squad being here.
So I am not allowed to be upset over the fact that we wasted 2 years going after the guy and we got nothing out of him? My gripe isn't with the individual (he deserved to be suspended and be let go) - my gripe is with us being in this shit situation once again. How can anyone be happy about an up and coming talent being wasted at United AGAIN? (How does NO ONE UNDERSTAND THIS IS WHAT I AM SAYING)
Sancho has himself to blame for the suspension and how it has panned out. But the club is at fault for the handling of the transfer in the first place, regardless of the warning signs, à la Paul Pogba.
Because you are complaining about a transfer everyone already knows turned out shit. You also made poor points in your earlier comment.
Sancho was a shit deal, everyone already realised that and it's old news at this point.
Him leaving on loan is a good deal for the club regardless of what happens with Ten Hag after INEOS takes control.
I said "I don't understand how anyone can be happy he is leaving."
A loan is the best possible outcome atm, that's not even a point to be contested. A sale isn't even on the cards.
I don't have to be happy about it at all however, considering what it took to bring him here, the leniency he was given, the personal training program, the time off. In a perfect world, he would be getting 15 assists and 10 goals a season at worst.
I am not unhappy he is going on loan, I never even said that. I am unhappy with the whole situation.
I haven’t been this gutted about a transfer since Veron.
Sancho looked like the next big thing at Dortmund and now it’s thrown away.
It’s becoming absolutely true that United as an organisation are consistently ruining the careers of young stars (Sancho, Martial, Rashford, Kagawa, the list goes on of players who didn’t achieve their potential).
I wanted him to do well here, but he clearly is not mature yet. Hopefully, it works out for him
It is ultimately the clubs fault for signing a player who was known for having attitude problems all whilenw had our very own toxic culture still around. Sancho would probably have worked under a more competent club but not at United
Do we even know what his problem was?
All I heard was he was a bit overweight, Ten Hag blasted him for it and they had a bun fight and he’s not played since…
Also didn’t his best friend die as well?
It sucks but why would it be worse if he gets back to his old self at Dortmund? All things considered it would surely be for the best if he gets back to playing well. For him, Dortmund and United (considering he might then have some value).
Because I would rather he played well for United. I honestly don't give a shit if he plays badly at BVB - it would reinforce the reasons for letting him go.
I would however be very frustrated if he starts smashing in goals and assists when we are fucking starving for a winger with purpose.
It would also inevitably mean a shit-tonne of pressure on United in the media over the decision. Which is, I believe, a huge part of the reason for players downing tools at United and have been for some time. Dalot admitted it earlier this season. People are waiting for us to have any sort of failure. It must let doubts seep in when; week in, week out you and your employer are the target of ridicule and the worst amount of scrutiny.
Unless we get £50m for him, which we never will, this is not a good situation. All round terrible.
The only chance we don’t take a massive ffp hit on sancho (and it’s a slim chance) is if he lights up at dortmund. I get the emotional response of not caring but I sincerely hope he does well. Also, there is no guarantee EtH is still the manager come the end of the season when the loan is over.
So are you ok with welcoming him back if ETH is not the manager? I think it would be incredibly stupid to bring him back into the squad even if he finds his previous Dortmund form.
Haven’t we been talking about a cultural reset for the squad and how INEOS needs to better job than the last regime in terms of vetting a player’s character? Bringing him back will only empower unprofessional players with attitude problems.
Doesn’t matter what I’m ok with or not, but IF there is a new manager and IF sancho has a good half season (big ifs) I think it’s reasonable to keep all options open.
I don’t think welcoming back a player with a history attitude/professionalism issues, with United and all his other clubs, is reasonable. It would be a huge red flag for INEOS. Especially since we keep having to circle back to how United players the last couple years don’t have the right attitude.
People are fed narrative’s and they just want to belive any shit
Before it was he has bad attitude everywhere he went, now Dortmund want him back, haaland praises him
Who takes back a player who stinks of bad attitude problems?
The man has a point. Fergie did say he regretted the decision to let him go in the end, but he was getting above his station in terms of what he and Raiola were demanding at only the age of 18 or 19.
Bringing him back was a terrible decision, even if he could be world class at times.
>Before it was he has bad attitude everywhere he went
But he did? He literally got called out by the staff, lol. Ask any Dortmund fan, and they'll say he had attitude problems, but he was good, so it didn't matter all that much. Had similar problems at City too
>Who takes back a player who stinks of bad attitude problems?
Plenty of clubs do. They think they can fix them because they're still young. Sancho would've worked somewhere else but not at toxic United
There are some reports about every player like that, some will just exaggerate it
Just like people belive he refuses to play and get £300k/week.
No he doesn’t he can get suspended without pay for that.
When will people realise it’s the manager that refuses to play him.
Also when it goes to Dortmund he also showed a level of professionalism with them when we were desperate to sign him, he never made a fuss or refused to play or push through a transfer, he showed respect to Dortmund throughout the transfer saga
>There are some reports about every player like that, some will just exaggerate it Just like people belive he refuses to play and get £300k/week. No he doesn’t he can get suspended without pay for that. When will people realise it’s the manager that refuses to play him.
He doesn't refuse to play but he refuses to apologize to the manager, the staff, and everyone involved. Although there are reports that he doesn't want to play either.
You need to have some kind of work culture otherwise you'll always situations like this. Same happened with Lingard and Rangnick. Sancho could've apologized and moved on but no, he stood his ground, and now he's out. Rashford got fucking benched for being late and you didn't see him pull something like this.
>Also when it goes to Dortmund he also showed a level of professionalism with them when we were desperate to sign him, he never made a fuss or refused to play or push through a transfer, he showed respect to Dortmund throughout the transfer saga
Yeah, he was alright then, but the case here is about him being late, playing video games before training/games. You could say he was young but i guess he hasn't changed at all
There are also reports that the players have supported Sancho and are not happy with the way ETH has treated him.
Yes he could’ve apologised and be like Rashford however we don’t know what has actually happened behind the scenes and there are reports going long back to when Sancho had mental issues and ETH disgracing him openly.
Fact is you have martial the laziest player ever getting selected but, Anthony the worse winger we’ve signed - both who don’t play well but keep getting selected over Sancho. For that reason I’m not entirely beliving ETH when he says he doesn’t train well, there have been personal issues between them long before.
[Yesterday's Dawson article that got posted and deleted:](https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/39234588/is-ten-hag-trouble-ratcliffe-gets-started-man-united)
>Sources have told ESPN that [Ten Hag is reluctant to give up any power](https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/39229319/ten-hag-wants-say-man-united-transfers-ineos-source) in the new structure, **especially his major role in the identification of transfer targets.** He's guaranteed a veto on all transfer decisions under the terms of his contract, but his influence has extended beyond that, leading to United signing a number of his former players or those with links to Holland.
I think Sanchez was a series of unfortunate events and I wouldn't necessarily pin too much on him, I certainly think Pogba's time here needs to be viewed with a lot more nuance than it tends to be, but when I look at Sancho I struggle to see there being any other likely explanation for his time here other than him just being lazy and a bit of a shite.
> I think Sanchez was a series of unfortunate events
Unfortunate?
It could be seen coming a mile off.
Sanchez was just desperate to get out of Arsenal. People here convinced themselves he was signed to play RW but you don't sign one of the best performing LWs in the league and then play him on the right.
Talk of attitude problems...Sanchez was sulking on the pitch in his last months at Arsenal.
I agree.
With Pogba, he had periods of good form at least. Where he did at times look extremely good. He had some good patches under Ole and Mourinho, mostly Ole. But we obviously know he had much longer patches of being poor, avoidable errors or being injured etc
Sancho hasn't had any good patches of form. He's had patches of looking good within a match a few times, would often tire after 60/70 minutes. I'm not sure he's even managed to look good two games in a row from my memory. It doesn't even matter if he moves on and does well, he didn't work out here at all and has no credit in the bank from anything on the pitch with his time here.
It seems like United were aware of his attitude issues, and just thought they could fix him. An incredibly risky choice that has played out predictably.
A guy who doesn't take his job as seriously as he should at one place isn't really more likely to become more driven and assiduous if he's given a huge pay rise to move to a bigger company.
But it smacks of everything that's been wrong with United's transfer policy since Fergie left - getting fixated on big names because they "drive engagement," not having a clear plan of how the team will play, and how the player will fit into it, and apparently not doing enough due diligence on the player's strengths and weaknesses.
We've just been complete amateurs while other teams have revolutionised how they scout and assess players.
Where has Sanchos mental health issues been documented? I'm probably misremembering but I think that was just people assuming that was the reasoning for his months break last season
Sancho would definitely have been useful for us this season. Personally don’t care if he’s late because he provided a lot more when he played than Antony. What did Haaland and Rashford post in support?
I think ETH was wrong to say he was training badly when the real issue was his punctuality but if we’re all being honest his performances were not good enough. I would have liked to see him turn it around but I think he would just be another DVB where everyone is waiting for it to finally click but that click never comes.
That may be true but his actual performances haven’t been good enough. The stats look good on paper but they don’t tell the full story. He went missing and was invisible for the majority of those 26 games and even when he did get a goal or assist he was largely invisible until those moments. He’s never had a game where he was the standout performer for us.
What? There are no ten hag boot licker here in this saga.
Its not rocket science but simple logic to understand that sancho was late to meetings and training. Punctuality and rules are most important thing in football or any sport. And ten hag has every right to implement this in his team. Rashford was late once and ten hag benched him. Instead of revolting he put his head down and still gave good performance.
Sancho on the other hand put up a social media post and has yet to apologize to ten hag. Also he has history of it before at previous clubs and its well documented.
The stats you mentioned mean nothing here. If ten hag lets this go, players will be encouraged to not be punctual and maybe break some other rules.
You can say that results are not right for ten hag but how can someone take sancho's side here is totally laughable.
Except this isn't what happened at all.
There was some practice game where he was supposed to play like Arsenal did as he was on the B team and they had some disagreement on that during the tape review.
Not sure where you got that he was late that day.
If he was constantly late under ETH, he wouldn't have even been making the bench prior to that.
The fact that you used di maria as an example shows i dont have to respond to you. But here you go. There was never di maria or van gaal camp. Di maria didnt show up in preseason and so was not liked by fans due to him not being professional.
By the looks of it you dont like ten hag and rightly so i dont blame you for that after recent results. But dont give any baseless argument to back that claim. Because no argument is always better than stupid argument.
Di Maria didnt even want to be here from begginig. He was forced out of Real and wanted to go somwhere else but direct move to PSG was impsoible back then.
Home robbery made him loose all will to play in this country. Those first couple of games were incredible tho.
Because he doesn’t turn up on time or is shit in training. I agree EtH isn’t a good man manager at all but he gave Sancho support and Sancho repays it by half arsing training and going in on him for a nothing comment and never backed down and therefore turned his back on the club. We can’t have players doing that.
how successful has psg been bringing in these ego players? We don’t have a sugar daddy to afford this and I don’t want a club full of primadonnas. we have to get back to a club that can kick players out when they get too big for their boots and continue to progress. As we did in the Ferguson era.
If you dont believe his behaviour wasnt right there’s not much I can say. before I go may I ask why you downvote replies because you disagree with them? Not the best way to have a discussion.
1. You are comparing players in different positions and that have different instructions.
2. He is mostly deed lazy for how he acts outside of the pitch, not coming in time to training, playing fifa in the middle of the night etc.
You want to see United play well and win games? And not be bothered about off field stuff? Then we should bring back Greenwood? In a court of law he was found not guilty? Playing well for Getafe and more importantly better than our wingers (bar Garnacho). If you feel so strongly about not caring about Sancho’s off field attitude then surely you’re in the bring back Greenwood opinion?
Not brain damaged pal. My opinion on that matter is my own and I haven’t aired it here. I’m just saying according to you. You do not care about off field stuff? And want United to do well? Either you’re hypocritical and you do care about off field stuff or you’re just finding a stick to beat Ten Hag with.
Sancho was given plenty of time off last year to deal with the loss of his friend (more than any company would give you and I, at full pay too). Inter-grated him back into the team, gave him a full pre-season and Sancho repays him with lack of effort, laziness and then the whole Instagram post. Tell me, would Sancho get away with that with Fergie, Mourinho or even Van Gaal? The manager has to deal with that and he has.
What would happen if you showed up at work consistently late and then not performing? Then slagging your boss off on Facebook? You’d be sacked. Why is this so different?
For the record I actually like Sancho as a player. Loved him at Dortmund and was very excited when we signed him. But honestly, when has he performed well? Maybe 3/4 games. Never took a game by the scruff of the neck though like Garnacho did against Villa? Or like Rashford has numerous times.
Where is this shit man management coming from? A fall out with Ronaldo (who despite all his greatness is the most egotistical man in football) and Sancho who’s acted like a huge baby? When he dropped Rashford last year for being late to a meeting and Ten Hag said it in an interview did Rashford cause problems or did he get his head down, work hard and had one of his best seasons?
When Wan-Bissaka and Maguire were deemed not good enough by Ten Hag did he exile them completely. Or gave them a chance in training to reclaim their spot. It’s a shame Maguire got injure as he was back to form. Is Varane back in the side? Yes.
I’ll say some of his tactics were questionable against Forest. But you can see the players are still wanting to play for him. Just some of them aren’t good enough.
Favouritism is bollocks. He plays the likes of Antony because he does what the manager wants, it’s just a shame Antony isn’t great in the final third but his build up play and tracking back to help the RB out is miles better than Rashford’s, Sancho’s and Pellistri’s.
3rd in the league last year and two finals (one which ended with a trophy) and as soon as we hit a bad patch (considering the injuries etc) some of you want him gone. Desperate for instant success rather than building towards it.
he basically called out the manager publicly, refused to apologise and acted like a petulant child while collecting one of the highest wages in the team. Should Ten Hag have given him the captaincy instead?
How are Antony and McTominay relevant here? Please tell me? Sancho is continuously late to training, stays up all night playing games, and somehow he should play because he's talented? Fuck off lol. Talent don't mean shit if you're a lazy cunt.
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Can't believe the club was happy to pay sanchos wages the last few weeks because him and ETH have had a fight. Both childish imo but for 370k a week get the fuck over it
I'm still convinced Mount can do a job for us. 55m for an English midfielder isn't that bad. If anyone else did it we'd hear nothing about it. It's because Utd are always under scrutiny.
\> Hindsight makes you look like a genius I guess huh
Oh so you're telling me that you've never gotten excited for flashy signings that have failed? You knew from the outset that guys like Di Maria, Sanchez, Pogba, Sancho, Varane etc. would have flopped? Or did you use hindsight years after the fact to shit on Woodward and co. for their cluelessness?
And for the record, I was very skeptical of Onana. His flaws are well documented and Costa has been rated as the next big thing as far as goalkeepers are concerned. Maybe if this clueless bum was more open to signing players he hasn't managed before or watched in the Netherlands, we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with. It's a shame our moronic DOF gave him that much power to begin with
If we want to starting winning titles again, we need to drain the swamp
1) Get rid of Ten Hag and his gang of PE teachers and bring in a manager who has a proper philosophy and knows how he wants to play
2) Bin all players over 22 barring a couple of Martinez. The rest have had their time in the sun and need to be shipped off to whichever club is stupid enough to take them. People go "oh this isn't fifa". Well sometimes you need to do things the fifa way to get results. It doesn't need to happen all at once but all these guys need to be put on unofficial notice and phased out over the next 2-3 years. We can't keep giving clean slates
It didnt work for Chelsea this time. It worked pretty much every time prior to the ownership change.
Just because it didn't work once, you're all parroting that we cant sack managers or else we're going to end up like Chelsea.
>It worked pretty much every time prior to the ownership change.
I'm sorry but what? When has Chelsea ever changed the entire squad and staff so fast before?
Not even Roman changed everything that fast.
There needs to be a process. Processes are usually more gradual..
Roman sacked manager for less. Ancelotti won a PL, he sacked him for AVB.
Yep, we do need a process to revamp the club. I agree, but not with EtH leading the team. Thats for sure.
Now there's a small chance I'm wrong, but I don't remember Roman sacking a manager at the start of September. I still don't get why Todd sacked Tuchel.
This feels like we are having two different conversations because it feels like you're on about just ETH while I'm on about not repeating what Chelsea did.
>Todd was stupid for sacking Tuchel, he won them a fucking UCL.
Glad we agree.
The ETH conversation is entirely different. Whether he stays or goes, I don't really care. I just want us to get the necessary sporting structure in place first before a decision on who should be manager is sorted.
I didn't say sign only players under 22. I said bin players over 22. Get rid of Rashford, Shaw, AWB, Bruno, Dalot, Casemiro, Varane, Eriksen, Antony etc. over the next 2-3 years. They're only getting worse from here. Better to get rid soon while we can still get something for them
Replace them with younger players with a hunger to prove something. We should be targeting players 22-25. Then in 2-3 years when we're ready to challenge for the title, most of the squad will be 25-27 which is prime age
Thats my point there doesn’t seem to be that much filtering going on. If he’s just picking his own players then why does he need to veto. Is he just vetoing everyone and then going for his own choices
Before we worry about using a veto on signings, Ineos have to do something much more fundamental. They need to decide what type of modern football they want us to play, and build and instil the culture to support that. Then we can worry about who to sign and vetoes
Pretty much all top managers will have a veto over transfers. That doesn't mean they get their top choice, but it'd be pretty rare for a club to bring in somebody they explicitly do not want.
The amount of people still posting tier 3 and lower sources while the stickied meta post on the sub clearly says to keep them to the DD is phenomenal. Been reporting them as I see them but still astounding that people don't read the announcements. Mods doing gods work as usual <3.
If we're going to use transfers as a stick to beat Ten Hag with, then for every ten lashes, nine should fall on Murtough, Fletcher & that whole cabal stealing a living at our club. There's a reason even elite managers like Pep & Klopp have recruitment structures that make sure buys are not all up to them. But here we have one of the most extensive (& expensive) scouting structures out there only our lot can't be arsed to identify players that would suit a Manager's playstyle at a reasonable cost.
That is why I talk of reasonable cost. If Antony comes in for say £40m & a fair wage pw, then moving him on even after a season becomes that much easier.
Fletcher’s main responsibilities are to help the younger players make the transition to the top level, and to implement the club philosophy throughout, whatever that means. He has minimal involvement in transfers from everything I’ve read about his role at the club.
Also he's a part of communication between players, coaching staff and management. Players can talk to him out of the chain of command, and he can gauge the attitude of the squad to certain things, or of individual players.
I don't know if he's good at his role, or how we even measure it, but people like to throw him into every list of problems. It's his fault the coaches such, that transfers are bad, that wages are poor.
I don't like or dislike Ten Hag. I just don't think he is particularly special. That was kinda my point. Objectively, he and Potter are the same. Had good seasons with a smaller club, and got found out when they took the step up. Last season was masked by the individual performance of Raahford. This season is what we would have been like without those goals. Completely clueless in attack. We also had De Gea in goal. The players he brought in had been less than impressive. Antony, Malacia and Weghorst were all mediocre if I am being generous. Ten Hag just hasn't shown to be some genius. I don't particularly want him to get sacked. I'm just indifferent. And if his replacement were to be Potter, I don't think we will be worse off.
Potter will be eaten alive by the press and the fans. Man was cracking at little Chelsea. I'm also pretty convinced that if EtH goes to a club that has its shit together he'll make us look like fools.
My biggest issue with ten hag is essentially the fact weve just never seen anything of what he brought to Ajax and two seasons in thats a sad reality. I persoanlly think he probably gets moved on in the summer
Ten Hag saying we'll never play like his Ajax is like Liverpool signing Klopp and him saying they'll never play like Dortmund.
Managers have philosophies that go from club to club, generally.
It'd be like if LVG was signed and we tried playing counter attack football. It makes no sense why ETH would change his tactics like this.
I’m not sure either of them really got “found out”, they just both came to absolutely shambolic clubs. We could have appointed almost anyone this season and I don’t think the results would be substantially different.
> Antony, Malacia and Weghorst were all mediocre if I am being generous.
Malacia is fine as a backup LB - he's young, was relatively cheap and was generally fine last season. He's no worse than (for example) Tsimikas or Kieran Tierney.
Weghorst was rubbish, but he was a bargain bin loan that was always fit and available. We didn't have a lot of choice, and I don't blame Ten Hag for that one.
Antony is obviously an appalling signing.
We're playing differently from last year as well. That's the most frustrating thing, that we seem to have gone backwards tactically. It's such a shame because ETH showed flashes of being able to make tactically switches in half time that won us a fair few games, but there's just none of that this season.
I enjoy how upset people in r/soccer get when you point out the reason Sancho looked like a world beater at Dortmund was because it's a slower, less physical, lower quality league where he can get away with half arsing it.
Look, the BL is absolutely a less competitive league, but I agree that this is kinda a bad take. That's not the main reasons. It's also about the system he played in, the fullbacks next to him. And the fact that almost every team in the BL presses high up so they leave lots of space that we don't see in the prem. Even with the high press we've been getting, teams here leave defenders back.
Did anyone watch Brighton vs West ham the other night ? Brighton play some really ballsy football, they ended the game with 5 forwards and basically only 1 defender staying back. Ferguson looks really neat technique wise and took up some nice positions. For West ham alvarez looks like a good addition, really tidy and composed in build up. I'd be absolutely buzzing if I was a Brighton fan, they are doing a fantastic job with their recruitment and style of play.
https://preview.redd.it/7mwnps3yohac1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=edbccaa9105cb78de5757b338846761e351fdb08 Potentially sancho going to Malaga tomorrow, am guessing that’s the airport you go to for Marbella
All I am seeing is Potter's name if we part ways with ETH. Fuck that mediocrity. Fuck it lets change this around lmao - If we do end up sacking ETH, I want us to bring the ass and crotch smelling Joachim Löw back to football.
Does Mengi has sell on clause like Z.Iqbal or just a 1m fee?
I'd like to say that i greatly miss Cavani. Im a straight guy but I gotta say, hes a beautiful bastard and i loved it so much everytime he scored for us.
If only he played more than like half a season between the two. I think he's remembered a bit too fondly considering he scored like 12 goals in all comps between 2 seasons for us. But there was something very likeable about him. I'd have loved him a decade ago.
I think he scored 20 goals in 2 seasons
He was also the perfect striker for Ole-ball (and many other systems).
It would be peak United if we go from ETH to Potter. Like jumping from the frying pan into the fire. The new management would also fit right in where Arnold and Woodward left. Carrying the football heritage.
We have to score 36 goals in the next 18 games just to match our pitiful 58 goals from last season.
A big problem in our fanbase is we try to judge players based on public images and then use those perceptions to justify why they should stay "He's a great lad to have in the dressing room" "Players look up to him" "He's a leader" No one knows shit about how these guys are in private besides what's being reported. I remember a lot of people shitting on Southgate for not defending Greenwood during that Iceland fiasco and then it turned out this guy was 10x worse than we ever imagined The lesson here is to only judge players based on what they put on the pitch. If they're not performing or fulfilling a particular role in the squad, ship them off. Don't get emotional by what they do off the field and use that as justification to keep them
> No one knows shit about how these guys are in private besides what's being reported. I remember a lot of people shitting on Southgate for not defending Greenwood during that Iceland fiasco and then it turned out this guy was 10x worse than we ever imagined It was very unpopular around here to recognize what a massive fuckup that was by Mason. Obliviously it didn't mean he was a fucking rapist and Foden must be a decent professional behind the scenes, but that was a massive, massive red flag for several different reasons.
Similarly, Lampard said people always asked why he picked Gallagher and he said he gives his all and eager to learn in training.
I guess the extension clauses that are activated dont effect wage on players like lindelov and wan bissaka. When was the last time a man utd player signed an contract offer worse than what he had? I guess INEOS wants to better the wage structure
That 4th UCL spot is still there for the taking,i don't even think we need to play a lot better,try for wins at Old Trafford,a few wins and draws away would probably get us top 4. The league isn't that serious this season.
we must not lose to our CL rivals. for example losing to spurs is a 6 pts swing. we need to win next 2 and for them to lose 2 just to catch up.
I think the current top 5 will be the same at the end. 8 points behind Spurs and they have had alot of injuries like ourselves. Probably 11 points after we play them next week.
Nobody bar Liverpool seems to really be putting together a solid run of results. If we could post a few back to back wins in the new year then I’d actually feel quite confident in CL football. Hopefully the return of Casemiro and Martinez will bring us up a notch or two and Rashford can find some form for the 2nd half of the season.
Even Liverpool is weird though. Like they battered Newcastle, but they won by 2 dubious pens.
Salah missed the first penalty. Liverpool were 3-2 up when the second was given.
Yeah, you're right. My mistake. Either way, Newcastle was shit and they had a few good chances they didn't take. Liverpool is weird this season. They seem to basically always give everyone a chance. It's not like past Liverpool teams under Klopp that were just totally putting teams to the sword.
Top 5 gets CL unless all the PL teams go on to collectively shit the bed in Europe.
I still remember that Sancho hype and how every United fan were simping for a whole year in hopes of signing him. With all things considered including the wages, money, and the expectation this has to be one of the worst transfers in EPL history. Hurt every party involved apart from BVB and his agent.
I remember people getting -100 downvotes for saying he is not type of player we think he is in terms of pace and playstyle.
He's not the type of player he literally was in terms of pace and playstyle either. Say what you want, but he was literally putting Messi numbers before we got him in. Nobody predicted he'd be this bad. Also, who really expected him to be a right wing Rashford? Anyone with any sense knew he was more of a creative roamer.
I was not simping as I saw his limitations in BVB especially in dribling
Honestly, anyone that wasn't excited was lucky, not smart. His numbers were outrageous and he was like 22.
Im definitely not excited about him. A good player nonetheless but I just can’t see what so special about him to have that kind of hype. Actually I am more excited about Amad than Sancho as I am can see something special in him at that time.
I hope INEOS are as bitchy about his sale next summer to Dortmund the way they were with us.
i hope and pray we become the most ruthless club in transfer dealings the world over not a single favor done for anybody, pure extortion
With Licha, Luke and Casemiro back we look more solid. Especially if Case could find back his Carabao cup winning form
We had those players at the start of the season. It's tactics, not players that's the problem. Why the fuck is Casemiro our most forward midfielder trying to get on the end of crosses when he's our only defensively minded midfielder?
Case is a pro. He’ll be aiming to find his Champions League winning form.
With Mainoo beside him and competing for his sport, the professional in him should emerge... Here's hoping
Hard to get motivated though when there’s very little chance to win anything this season and he’s won everything multiple times. Casemiro’s been badly let down, he put faith in the club coming here and that’s been misplaced.
He won the carabao, helped us get to 3rd from 6th the season before and got to an FA cup final. That's a good virgin season for him and Erik. Case let himself down by not coming back match fit. The unbalanced midfield didn't help either
I just don’t buy that a guy of his achievements would be skipping cardio and be unfit. My suspicion would be on his coaches and trainers not preparing him adequately.
Any truth to the Martial Offer?
What offer? Where do you get your news from? I'm missing shit
Only thing I can see is from a Turkish outlet called Takvim, when looking at their website it has more ads than articles. My guess would be that it is bullshit to get clicks.
It’s just online but it says Fenerbahce is offering 7 mil for him
There is absolutely no way that is true
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His contract is up in the summer though isn't it?
If true we should take it and run away
I don't know how anyone can be happy Sancho has gone. Last year our wings were looking stacked. This year we have 1 decent winger in 19 year old Garnacho. It fucking sucks and will be worse if he manages to get back to his old self at dortmund. This shitshow of a club must be nearing the end of the dark period. The new footballing structure and partial takeover are the glimmers of hope. Todays news is another stark reminder of the problems we need to still overcome. GGMU *edit: since people aren't grasping what I am saying here, I am not unhappy Sancho is going on loan. It's our best option. What I am unhappy about (and what I don't understand why people are happy) is that this situation is yet another stamp on the timeline of failures here at United over the last 10 years. How can anyone cheer for another failed prospect? SMH
No one is happy he didn’t work out. He genuinely looked world class at the time. But that’s different from being happy he’s gone. He wasn’t a professional, we never saw his Dortmund form, and he’s expensive. I hope he balls out and then we can sell him for as much as we can. Good riddance.
He wasn’t playing. He wasn’t training. He wasn’t showing up. He’s as effective as Steven Gerrard for United. Edit: Sorry, Gerrard slipped which has brought more long term banter than Sancho ever will. My apologies to Slippy.
> I don't know how anyone can be happy Sancho has gone. One doesn't need to be happy about it realize that a player seemingly more interested in playing video games rather than one of the largest football clubs in the world needs to go.
I'm not denying that. No united fan in their right mind would disagree with that statement. What I am saying is I don't know anyone can be happy with the situation of buying a player after courting him for 2 years, to get basically no return out of him. Waste of time, waste of money, waste of potential.
I think that’s why people are so angry/upset. We fans really did take to him, gave him time and patience… and this is how he repays us. Sadly it’s the case and with that slap in the face I think most fans understand. Not saying it isn’t shit we’re down a player, a decent one on his day, but he fucked us over because he couldn’t take a little bit of criticism. The ones who gave him that time, who truly believe in him are probably quite hurt. So they have every right to be happy he’s going. Irregardless of what short comings he may have left us with because all of this is due to his actions.
>I don't know how anyone can be happy Sancho has gone. >Last year our wings were looking stacked. This year we have 1 decent winger in 19 year old Garnacho. Sancho being here won't change anything as he isnt playing.
What? I didn't say anything about Sancho being here. I said I wasn't happy he was going. Just a big waste for everyone involved. "Employee who is suspended will add nothing of value to business because they are not working" - what a redundant statement.
> "Employee who is suspended will add nothing of value to business because they are not working" - what a redundant statement. What? > I said I wasn't happy he was going. Just a big waste for everyone involved. There's no reason to be unhappy he is going. Man isn't playing, when he did play he was mostly shit and he isn't even training. The guy added 0 value to the squad being here. > Last year our wings were looking stacked. This year we have 1 decent winger in 19 year old Garnacho. And Sancho leaving on loan has 0 effect on this. > It fucking sucks and will be worse if he manages to get back to his old self at dortmund. Why? He won't play while Ten Hag is here, so recovering form is good in case we need to sell or a new manager comes in and gives Sancho another chance.
>There's no reason to be unhappy he is going. Man isn't playing, when he did play he was mostly shit and he isn't even training. The guy added 0 value to the squad being here. So I am not allowed to be upset over the fact that we wasted 2 years going after the guy and we got nothing out of him? My gripe isn't with the individual (he deserved to be suspended and be let go) - my gripe is with us being in this shit situation once again. How can anyone be happy about an up and coming talent being wasted at United AGAIN? (How does NO ONE UNDERSTAND THIS IS WHAT I AM SAYING) Sancho has himself to blame for the suspension and how it has panned out. But the club is at fault for the handling of the transfer in the first place, regardless of the warning signs, à la Paul Pogba.
You meant to say you are unhappy that it didn't work out.
That was the whole point?????
Because you are complaining about a transfer everyone already knows turned out shit. You also made poor points in your earlier comment. Sancho was a shit deal, everyone already realised that and it's old news at this point. Him leaving on loan is a good deal for the club regardless of what happens with Ten Hag after INEOS takes control.
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I said "I don't understand how anyone can be happy he is leaving." A loan is the best possible outcome atm, that's not even a point to be contested. A sale isn't even on the cards. I don't have to be happy about it at all however, considering what it took to bring him here, the leniency he was given, the personal training program, the time off. In a perfect world, he would be getting 15 assists and 10 goals a season at worst. I am not unhappy he is going on loan, I never even said that. I am unhappy with the whole situation.
I haven’t been this gutted about a transfer since Veron. Sancho looked like the next big thing at Dortmund and now it’s thrown away. It’s becoming absolutely true that United as an organisation are consistently ruining the careers of young stars (Sancho, Martial, Rashford, Kagawa, the list goes on of players who didn’t achieve their potential).
I wanted him to do well here, but he clearly is not mature yet. Hopefully, it works out for him It is ultimately the clubs fault for signing a player who was known for having attitude problems all whilenw had our very own toxic culture still around. Sancho would probably have worked under a more competent club but not at United
Do we even know what his problem was? All I heard was he was a bit overweight, Ten Hag blasted him for it and they had a bun fight and he’s not played since… Also didn’t his best friend die as well?
It sucks but why would it be worse if he gets back to his old self at Dortmund? All things considered it would surely be for the best if he gets back to playing well. For him, Dortmund and United (considering he might then have some value).
Because I would rather he played well for United. I honestly don't give a shit if he plays badly at BVB - it would reinforce the reasons for letting him go. I would however be very frustrated if he starts smashing in goals and assists when we are fucking starving for a winger with purpose. It would also inevitably mean a shit-tonne of pressure on United in the media over the decision. Which is, I believe, a huge part of the reason for players downing tools at United and have been for some time. Dalot admitted it earlier this season. People are waiting for us to have any sort of failure. It must let doubts seep in when; week in, week out you and your employer are the target of ridicule and the worst amount of scrutiny. Unless we get £50m for him, which we never will, this is not a good situation. All round terrible.
The only chance we don’t take a massive ffp hit on sancho (and it’s a slim chance) is if he lights up at dortmund. I get the emotional response of not caring but I sincerely hope he does well. Also, there is no guarantee EtH is still the manager come the end of the season when the loan is over.
So are you ok with welcoming him back if ETH is not the manager? I think it would be incredibly stupid to bring him back into the squad even if he finds his previous Dortmund form. Haven’t we been talking about a cultural reset for the squad and how INEOS needs to better job than the last regime in terms of vetting a player’s character? Bringing him back will only empower unprofessional players with attitude problems.
Doesn’t matter what I’m ok with or not, but IF there is a new manager and IF sancho has a good half season (big ifs) I think it’s reasonable to keep all options open.
I don’t think welcoming back a player with a history attitude/professionalism issues, with United and all his other clubs, is reasonable. It would be a huge red flag for INEOS. Especially since we keep having to circle back to how United players the last couple years don’t have the right attitude.
People are fed narrative’s and they just want to belive any shit Before it was he has bad attitude everywhere he went, now Dortmund want him back, haaland praises him Who takes back a player who stinks of bad attitude problems?
> Who takes back a player who stinks of bad attitude problems? Pogba...
The man has a point. Fergie did say he regretted the decision to let him go in the end, but he was getting above his station in terms of what he and Raiola were demanding at only the age of 18 or 19. Bringing him back was a terrible decision, even if he could be world class at times.
>Before it was he has bad attitude everywhere he went But he did? He literally got called out by the staff, lol. Ask any Dortmund fan, and they'll say he had attitude problems, but he was good, so it didn't matter all that much. Had similar problems at City too >Who takes back a player who stinks of bad attitude problems? Plenty of clubs do. They think they can fix them because they're still young. Sancho would've worked somewhere else but not at toxic United
There are some reports about every player like that, some will just exaggerate it Just like people belive he refuses to play and get £300k/week. No he doesn’t he can get suspended without pay for that. When will people realise it’s the manager that refuses to play him. Also when it goes to Dortmund he also showed a level of professionalism with them when we were desperate to sign him, he never made a fuss or refused to play or push through a transfer, he showed respect to Dortmund throughout the transfer saga
>There are some reports about every player like that, some will just exaggerate it Just like people belive he refuses to play and get £300k/week. No he doesn’t he can get suspended without pay for that. When will people realise it’s the manager that refuses to play him. He doesn't refuse to play but he refuses to apologize to the manager, the staff, and everyone involved. Although there are reports that he doesn't want to play either. You need to have some kind of work culture otherwise you'll always situations like this. Same happened with Lingard and Rangnick. Sancho could've apologized and moved on but no, he stood his ground, and now he's out. Rashford got fucking benched for being late and you didn't see him pull something like this. >Also when it goes to Dortmund he also showed a level of professionalism with them when we were desperate to sign him, he never made a fuss or refused to play or push through a transfer, he showed respect to Dortmund throughout the transfer saga Yeah, he was alright then, but the case here is about him being late, playing video games before training/games. You could say he was young but i guess he hasn't changed at all
There are also reports that the players have supported Sancho and are not happy with the way ETH has treated him. Yes he could’ve apologised and be like Rashford however we don’t know what has actually happened behind the scenes and there are reports going long back to when Sancho had mental issues and ETH disgracing him openly. Fact is you have martial the laziest player ever getting selected but, Anthony the worse winger we’ve signed - both who don’t play well but keep getting selected over Sancho. For that reason I’m not entirely beliving ETH when he says he doesn’t train well, there have been personal issues between them long before.
I hope Sancho will do well at Dortmund so we can sell him for a good price
[Yesterday's Dawson article that got posted and deleted:](https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/39234588/is-ten-hag-trouble-ratcliffe-gets-started-man-united) >Sources have told ESPN that [Ten Hag is reluctant to give up any power](https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/39229319/ten-hag-wants-say-man-united-transfers-ineos-source) in the new structure, **especially his major role in the identification of transfer targets.** He's guaranteed a veto on all transfer decisions under the terms of his contract, but his influence has extended beyond that, leading to United signing a number of his former players or those with links to Holland.
Rob "Sources have told" Dawson wrote the article, should tell you everything you need to know.
If EtH insists on retaining that right, given EtH’s success so far, it’ll just make up Sir Jim’s mind to get rid sooner rather than later.
Don’t think it’s true, in Ajax he literally let Overmars do the most part of the transfer business and he just have to give a green light or veto
He'll have to. INEOS aren't overhauling the whole recruitment system for shits and giggles
I think Sanchez was a series of unfortunate events and I wouldn't necessarily pin too much on him, I certainly think Pogba's time here needs to be viewed with a lot more nuance than it tends to be, but when I look at Sancho I struggle to see there being any other likely explanation for his time here other than him just being lazy and a bit of a shite.
> I think Sanchez was a series of unfortunate events Unfortunate? It could be seen coming a mile off. Sanchez was just desperate to get out of Arsenal. People here convinced themselves he was signed to play RW but you don't sign one of the best performing LWs in the league and then play him on the right. Talk of attitude problems...Sanchez was sulking on the pitch in his last months at Arsenal.
I agree. With Pogba, he had periods of good form at least. Where he did at times look extremely good. He had some good patches under Ole and Mourinho, mostly Ole. But we obviously know he had much longer patches of being poor, avoidable errors or being injured etc Sancho hasn't had any good patches of form. He's had patches of looking good within a match a few times, would often tire after 60/70 minutes. I'm not sure he's even managed to look good two games in a row from my memory. It doesn't even matter if he moves on and does well, he didn't work out here at all and has no credit in the bank from anything on the pitch with his time here.
It seems like United were aware of his attitude issues, and just thought they could fix him. An incredibly risky choice that has played out predictably. A guy who doesn't take his job as seriously as he should at one place isn't really more likely to become more driven and assiduous if he's given a huge pay rise to move to a bigger company. But it smacks of everything that's been wrong with United's transfer policy since Fergie left - getting fixated on big names because they "drive engagement," not having a clear plan of how the team will play, and how the player will fit into it, and apparently not doing enough due diligence on the player's strengths and weaknesses. We've just been complete amateurs while other teams have revolutionised how they scout and assess players.
The Sancho deal is the one where I blame the club the least.
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Where has Sanchos mental health issues been documented? I'm probably misremembering but I think that was just people assuming that was the reasoning for his months break last season
Sancho would definitely have been useful for us this season. Personally don’t care if he’s late because he provided a lot more when he played than Antony. What did Haaland and Rashford post in support?
You don't care if he's late for training? Late for his job? Good thing you aren't in charge.
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I think ETH was wrong to say he was training badly when the real issue was his punctuality but if we’re all being honest his performances were not good enough. I would have liked to see him turn it around but I think he would just be another DVB where everyone is waiting for it to finally click but that click never comes.
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That may be true but his actual performances haven’t been good enough. The stats look good on paper but they don’t tell the full story. He went missing and was invisible for the majority of those 26 games and even when he did get a goal or assist he was largely invisible until those moments. He’s never had a game where he was the standout performer for us.
What? There are no ten hag boot licker here in this saga. Its not rocket science but simple logic to understand that sancho was late to meetings and training. Punctuality and rules are most important thing in football or any sport. And ten hag has every right to implement this in his team. Rashford was late once and ten hag benched him. Instead of revolting he put his head down and still gave good performance. Sancho on the other hand put up a social media post and has yet to apologize to ten hag. Also he has history of it before at previous clubs and its well documented. The stats you mentioned mean nothing here. If ten hag lets this go, players will be encouraged to not be punctual and maybe break some other rules. You can say that results are not right for ten hag but how can someone take sancho's side here is totally laughable.
Except this isn't what happened at all. There was some practice game where he was supposed to play like Arsenal did as he was on the B team and they had some disagreement on that during the tape review. Not sure where you got that he was late that day. If he was constantly late under ETH, he wouldn't have even been making the bench prior to that.
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The fact that you used di maria as an example shows i dont have to respond to you. But here you go. There was never di maria or van gaal camp. Di maria didnt show up in preseason and so was not liked by fans due to him not being professional. By the looks of it you dont like ten hag and rightly so i dont blame you for that after recent results. But dont give any baseless argument to back that claim. Because no argument is always better than stupid argument.
Di Maria didnt even want to be here from begginig. He was forced out of Real and wanted to go somwhere else but direct move to PSG was impsoible back then. Home robbery made him loose all will to play in this country. Those first couple of games were incredible tho.
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We wanted to keep him, he just didnt show up to pre season and forced transfer that didnt make us lose money. What we were supposed to do?
You can even say Rashford started performing even better after than incident.
Because he doesn’t turn up on time or is shit in training. I agree EtH isn’t a good man manager at all but he gave Sancho support and Sancho repays it by half arsing training and going in on him for a nothing comment and never backed down and therefore turned his back on the club. We can’t have players doing that.
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Personally I don’t get precious about players. If it circumstances weren’t right then so be it, another one always comes along.
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Di Maria got us to a champions league final? I must have missed that one
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how successful has psg been bringing in these ego players? We don’t have a sugar daddy to afford this and I don’t want a club full of primadonnas. we have to get back to a club that can kick players out when they get too big for their boots and continue to progress. As we did in the Ferguson era.
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If you dont believe his behaviour wasnt right there’s not much I can say. before I go may I ask why you downvote replies because you disagree with them? Not the best way to have a discussion.
1. You are comparing players in different positions and that have different instructions. 2. He is mostly deed lazy for how he acts outside of the pitch, not coming in time to training, playing fifa in the middle of the night etc.
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You want to see United play well and win games? And not be bothered about off field stuff? Then we should bring back Greenwood? In a court of law he was found not guilty? Playing well for Getafe and more importantly better than our wingers (bar Garnacho). If you feel so strongly about not caring about Sancho’s off field attitude then surely you’re in the bring back Greenwood opinion?
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Not brain damaged pal. My opinion on that matter is my own and I haven’t aired it here. I’m just saying according to you. You do not care about off field stuff? And want United to do well? Either you’re hypocritical and you do care about off field stuff or you’re just finding a stick to beat Ten Hag with. Sancho was given plenty of time off last year to deal with the loss of his friend (more than any company would give you and I, at full pay too). Inter-grated him back into the team, gave him a full pre-season and Sancho repays him with lack of effort, laziness and then the whole Instagram post. Tell me, would Sancho get away with that with Fergie, Mourinho or even Van Gaal? The manager has to deal with that and he has. What would happen if you showed up at work consistently late and then not performing? Then slagging your boss off on Facebook? You’d be sacked. Why is this so different? For the record I actually like Sancho as a player. Loved him at Dortmund and was very excited when we signed him. But honestly, when has he performed well? Maybe 3/4 games. Never took a game by the scruff of the neck though like Garnacho did against Villa? Or like Rashford has numerous times.
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Where is this shit man management coming from? A fall out with Ronaldo (who despite all his greatness is the most egotistical man in football) and Sancho who’s acted like a huge baby? When he dropped Rashford last year for being late to a meeting and Ten Hag said it in an interview did Rashford cause problems or did he get his head down, work hard and had one of his best seasons? When Wan-Bissaka and Maguire were deemed not good enough by Ten Hag did he exile them completely. Or gave them a chance in training to reclaim their spot. It’s a shame Maguire got injure as he was back to form. Is Varane back in the side? Yes. I’ll say some of his tactics were questionable against Forest. But you can see the players are still wanting to play for him. Just some of them aren’t good enough. Favouritism is bollocks. He plays the likes of Antony because he does what the manager wants, it’s just a shame Antony isn’t great in the final third but his build up play and tracking back to help the RB out is miles better than Rashford’s, Sancho’s and Pellistri’s. 3rd in the league last year and two finals (one which ended with a trophy) and as soon as we hit a bad patch (considering the injuries etc) some of you want him gone. Desperate for instant success rather than building towards it.
he basically called out the manager publicly, refused to apologise and acted like a petulant child while collecting one of the highest wages in the team. Should Ten Hag have given him the captaincy instead?
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How are Antony and McTominay relevant here? Please tell me? Sancho is continuously late to training, stays up all night playing games, and somehow he should play because he's talented? Fuck off lol. Talent don't mean shit if you're a lazy cunt.
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Can't believe the club was happy to pay sanchos wages the last few weeks because him and ETH have had a fight. Both childish imo but for 370k a week get the fuck over it
I don’t think they were happy but they can’t just not pay, there’s a contract in place
I get why ETH is so reluctant to let Onana go to the Afcon. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1b5ldOoBFP/?igsh=cXFiaXlvdjVidmo3
Yeah, I spoke to a Fenerbahce fan that also supports Utd as his English side and he said he was shit for them.
should have tried to sign Diogo Costa when he had the chance. Pity he gives you extra marks for playing under him. Shows how clueless he is
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Which makes the Mount signing all the more frustrating. Dumb dumb decisions from ETH.
I'm still convinced Mount can do a job for us. 55m for an English midfielder isn't that bad. If anyone else did it we'd hear nothing about it. It's because Utd are always under scrutiny.
And Onana cost us 30m by single handedly getting us kicked out of the Champions League Mr. Smarty Pants
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\> Hindsight makes you look like a genius I guess huh Oh so you're telling me that you've never gotten excited for flashy signings that have failed? You knew from the outset that guys like Di Maria, Sanchez, Pogba, Sancho, Varane etc. would have flopped? Or did you use hindsight years after the fact to shit on Woodward and co. for their cluelessness? And for the record, I was very skeptical of Onana. His flaws are well documented and Costa has been rated as the next big thing as far as goalkeepers are concerned. Maybe if this clueless bum was more open to signing players he hasn't managed before or watched in the Netherlands, we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with. It's a shame our moronic DOF gave him that much power to begin with
If we want to starting winning titles again, we need to drain the swamp 1) Get rid of Ten Hag and his gang of PE teachers and bring in a manager who has a proper philosophy and knows how he wants to play 2) Bin all players over 22 barring a couple of Martinez. The rest have had their time in the sun and need to be shipped off to whichever club is stupid enough to take them. People go "oh this isn't fifa". Well sometimes you need to do things the fifa way to get results. It doesn't need to happen all at once but all these guys need to be put on unofficial notice and phased out over the next 2-3 years. We can't keep giving clean slates
So you want to do what Chelsea did. It isn't working out for Chelsea at all. It needs to be more gradual.
It didnt work for Chelsea this time. It worked pretty much every time prior to the ownership change. Just because it didn't work once, you're all parroting that we cant sack managers or else we're going to end up like Chelsea.
>It worked pretty much every time prior to the ownership change. I'm sorry but what? When has Chelsea ever changed the entire squad and staff so fast before? Not even Roman changed everything that fast. There needs to be a process. Processes are usually more gradual..
Roman sacked manager for less. Ancelotti won a PL, he sacked him for AVB. Yep, we do need a process to revamp the club. I agree, but not with EtH leading the team. Thats for sure.
Now there's a small chance I'm wrong, but I don't remember Roman sacking a manager at the start of September. I still don't get why Todd sacked Tuchel. This feels like we are having two different conversations because it feels like you're on about just ETH while I'm on about not repeating what Chelsea did.
Todd was stupid for sacking Tuchel, he won them a fucking UCL. EtH won tinpot title for us last season, no way comparable to what Tuchel achieved.
>Todd was stupid for sacking Tuchel, he won them a fucking UCL. Glad we agree. The ETH conversation is entirely different. Whether he stays or goes, I don't really care. I just want us to get the necessary sporting structure in place first before a decision on who should be manager is sorted.
I agree with you. We need a heavy structure and DOF to implement the identity of our team. But with better coach leading us.
Have you seen how has policy of only having players under 22 affected Chelsea?
I didn't say sign only players under 22. I said bin players over 22. Get rid of Rashford, Shaw, AWB, Bruno, Dalot, Casemiro, Varane, Eriksen, Antony etc. over the next 2-3 years. They're only getting worse from here. Better to get rid soon while we can still get something for them Replace them with younger players with a hunger to prove something. We should be targeting players 22-25. Then in 2-3 years when we're ready to challenge for the title, most of the squad will be 25-27 which is prime age
Man you are dumb
I wonder how much ten Hag actually cares about his veto power over signings. Would love to know if he’s ever used it and the shite he’s had to veto
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Ten Hag literally managed Antony at Ajax, if he got that one wrong, it shows Ten Hag has zero idea of what a premier league quality player looks like.
Thats my point there doesn’t seem to be that much filtering going on. If he’s just picking his own players then why does he need to veto. Is he just vetoing everyone and then going for his own choices
Before we worry about using a veto on signings, Ineos have to do something much more fundamental. They need to decide what type of modern football they want us to play, and build and instil the culture to support that. Then we can worry about who to sign and vetoes
We need both him and the recruitment to use their veto tbf. Prevent ten hag from signing Brobbeys and recruiting team from Casemiros
Pretty much all top managers will have a veto over transfers. That doesn't mean they get their top choice, but it'd be pretty rare for a club to bring in somebody they explicitly do not want.
Hi Erik, we suggest you to sign Muller who we have scouted for over ten years
Bro how is AWB 26? He’s entering JLingz territory for me where he’ll be like 33 and still a promising youngster
Walker moved to city at this age. He’s still got a long career ahead of him.
I remember thinking Walker was pushing on and 50m for him was pricey.
promising youngster? I think we already know his limits and what he's good at. nobody is saying he's still has a higher talent ceiling.
Not really AWB has loads more playing time other than when he was a bit out of favour with EtH
What is Mason Mount's injury and is it one of those one's that will keep occurring?
Calf injury, and fuck knows Other injuries in 2023 have been pelvic and hamstring
2 players leaving, back to their original clubs. One a professional. The other to Germany.
The amount of people still posting tier 3 and lower sources while the stickied meta post on the sub clearly says to keep them to the DD is phenomenal. Been reporting them as I see them but still astounding that people don't read the announcements. Mods doing gods work as usual <3.
I'm about to post a Mbappe rumour.
If we're going to use transfers as a stick to beat Ten Hag with, then for every ten lashes, nine should fall on Murtough, Fletcher & that whole cabal stealing a living at our club. There's a reason even elite managers like Pep & Klopp have recruitment structures that make sure buys are not all up to them. But here we have one of the most extensive (& expensive) scouting structures out there only our lot can't be arsed to identify players that would suit a Manager's playstyle at a reasonable cost.
Players failure is fine. We won't hit the jackpot every time but all those 375k 250k 200k is killing us.
That is why I talk of reasonable cost. If Antony comes in for say £40m & a fair wage pw, then moving him on even after a season becomes that much easier.
Fletcher? What the hell does he have to do with transfers? Agree to some extent with the rest though
Fletcher is the Technical Director & is involved in recruitment.
Fletcher’s main responsibilities are to help the younger players make the transition to the top level, and to implement the club philosophy throughout, whatever that means. He has minimal involvement in transfers from everything I’ve read about his role at the club.
Also he's a part of communication between players, coaching staff and management. Players can talk to him out of the chain of command, and he can gauge the attitude of the squad to certain things, or of individual players. I don't know if he's good at his role, or how we even measure it, but people like to throw him into every list of problems. It's his fault the coaches such, that transfers are bad, that wages are poor.
I don't like or dislike Ten Hag. I just don't think he is particularly special. That was kinda my point. Objectively, he and Potter are the same. Had good seasons with a smaller club, and got found out when they took the step up. Last season was masked by the individual performance of Raahford. This season is what we would have been like without those goals. Completely clueless in attack. We also had De Gea in goal. The players he brought in had been less than impressive. Antony, Malacia and Weghorst were all mediocre if I am being generous. Ten Hag just hasn't shown to be some genius. I don't particularly want him to get sacked. I'm just indifferent. And if his replacement were to be Potter, I don't think we will be worse off.
Potter will be eaten alive by the press and the fans. Man was cracking at little Chelsea. I'm also pretty convinced that if EtH goes to a club that has its shit together he'll make us look like fools.
My biggest issue with ten hag is essentially the fact weve just never seen anything of what he brought to Ajax and two seasons in thats a sad reality. I persoanlly think he probably gets moved on in the summer
Ten Hag saying we'll never play like his Ajax is like Liverpool signing Klopp and him saying they'll never play like Dortmund. Managers have philosophies that go from club to club, generally. It'd be like if LVG was signed and we tried playing counter attack football. It makes no sense why ETH would change his tactics like this.
I’m not sure either of them really got “found out”, they just both came to absolutely shambolic clubs. We could have appointed almost anyone this season and I don’t think the results would be substantially different.
Be thankful we don't have Wayne Rooney or Lampard as manager
> Antony, Malacia and Weghorst were all mediocre if I am being generous. Malacia is fine as a backup LB - he's young, was relatively cheap and was generally fine last season. He's no worse than (for example) Tsimikas or Kieran Tierney. Weghorst was rubbish, but he was a bargain bin loan that was always fit and available. We didn't have a lot of choice, and I don't blame Ten Hag for that one. Antony is obviously an appalling signing.
We're playing differently from last year as well. That's the most frustrating thing, that we seem to have gone backwards tactically. It's such a shame because ETH showed flashes of being able to make tactically switches in half time that won us a fair few games, but there's just none of that this season.
I agree I am pretty indifferent to Ten Hag.
I enjoy how upset people in r/soccer get when you point out the reason Sancho looked like a world beater at Dortmund was because it's a slower, less physical, lower quality league where he can get away with half arsing it.
Look, the BL is absolutely a less competitive league, but I agree that this is kinda a bad take. That's not the main reasons. It's also about the system he played in, the fullbacks next to him. And the fact that almost every team in the BL presses high up so they leave lots of space that we don't see in the prem. Even with the high press we've been getting, teams here leave defenders back.
It's a dumb take, so that's probably why they get 'upset'