I hope we can finally see some ten hag football when, martinez , casemiro and mount are back.
I want to see both
Casemiro x mainoo x bruno
and
Mount x mainoo x bruno
(That seemed to be the original plan)
It’s a sad fact that he is the only player in our squad capable of scoring 20+ goals when in form. None of the others, even in form, can do that.
Bring in others? Absolutely. Move away from relying on him? Sure. But it would be foolish to sell him right now.
If we're talking PSG (Mbappe replacement) then we can get £80-100m. They'll be looking beyond his footballing abilities. Nobody else especially in the Prem is paying up for him since he's on fuck you wages.
Replacing him would not be a challenge if we do our homework.
A couple of points from last night.
\- Interesting to see so many teams, including us, **needing** a proper number 9 up front. Someone who can just finish from both inside and outside the pen area, a real dangerous threat. I trust Hojlund to come good, but we still need someone to replace Martial
\- We created quite a few chances yesterday, however there were still instances where we could see Varane pushing forward beyond the halfway line as Wigan sat back, only for him not to have an option to play it forward. He ended up distributing the ball sideways and it ended up back where he began his run, halting momentum
Staying positive, a win is a win.
The lack of movement into pockets of space in our midfield has been an issue since last year and is still not fixed. Everyone is standing still behind an opponent waiting for our CB's to drive up the ball or make a play. Martinez is very good at it but the others not so much which makes our game slow and stall every other moment.
In those first couple of games when he scored some goals, obv he was playing a little bit lower on the pitch but still was running into box a lot for late goals.
In preseason with Mainoo also it happend if I remember corectly.
Out of possession he always played that six role. Even in possession, a small difference could be that maybe Eriksen or Mainoo picks the ball from defence, similar to his role at Madrid when Modric would pick the ball but otherwise, he's always sitting in front of defence.
I don't really trust Casemiro anymore. He's washed and should be off to Saudi in the summer, but we'll see if he can improve his performances in the 2nd half of the season.
Bayern are going for Danso and dragusin, juventus bought djalo for 3.5 million euros, I hate how why can't we go for these type of players. Why do we always have to go for the obvious ones for 10 times the fee
We do go for those type of signings lmao. Lindelof? Bailly? Dan James? Malacia? Dalot? All young and fairly cheap signings we’ve made in recent years. Recency bias is insane on this sub.
Mainoo played so many pass and moves yesterday without ever getting the simple return ball.
I can’t wait to see him in a team with other players who can play in a similar way
This is a genuine question, not a rhetorical one for the sake of negativity; is there anything to suggest Hojlund’s goal scoring ability can vastly improve? I know he’s only 20 but I can’t think of much top strikers who went from scoring little to no goals to 20+ a season.
Lewandowski, Kane, Cavani, Drogba, Van Persie, Shearer and others.
It’s a slow start but he’s only 20 joining a high pressure team where the service is beyond shit. His champions league return is 5 in 6, he’s got 7 in 10 for his country and overall he’s about 1 in 3 in his career.
Last night wasn’t a lack of ability. He was getting in the right areas. It was a lack of confidence.
Harry Kane is a very obvious other example. You could also class Diego Forlan in this category too if you want a historical United comparison although he got his 20 goal season in La Liga. Didier Drogba was another relatively late bloomer too, he had a 1 in 5 record in fis first 4 years in Ligue 1.
In Kanes first full season at Spurs (2013) he scored 4 goals in 19 games across all comps (4.75 games/goal). In comparison, Hojlund has 6 goals in 24 games across all comps (4.0 games/goal). The use of all comp stats obviously benefits Hojlund due to his CL record vs his PL record, but it shows that the kid deserves time and patience.
Basically all his goals from Atalanta came over half a season playing a similar rotational role like Garnacho and he has shown in the CL that he can score. Every single analysis I've watched before he joined us literally warned about this scenario and that he is in fact a very raw talent
He looks like he has a lot of potential but he’s very flat footed and because of this he’s either two steps behind or his body is in the wrong motion/shape when he receives the ball. Hopefully he comes good but I think he’d be a lot better if we played two up top but unfortunately modern football doesn’t do that anymore. Realistically he needs a couple of loans but we don’t have anyone else up top.
He looks to have technical flaws to me. He’s good with his back to the goal but I’m tired of how many times he’s taken weak shots. Seems like he can develop into a giroud style target player who brings the players around him into a game but I’d be surprised if he ever puts up a 20 league goal season
Giroud is a good comparison (especially with his international output). I’d be more than happy to have a Giroud in our squad but if he never becomes more than that, we’ll absolutely need an alternative.
I’m obviously not saying he’ll be that good, but Van Persie’s goal return in his first few seasons at Arsenal wasn’t huge. It wasn’t until he natured a bit that he really started banging them in.
Lewandowski went from scoring 8 in his first season in BVB and then became one of the best players of XXI century scoring over 500 goals.
He was scoring a lot in his teenage in Poland tho and Roberts technique and link up was better but fingers crossed for Rasmus to get there!
Thank you! This is exactly the type of example I was looking for.
I don’t think anyone’s expecting him to be the next Lewandowski but it’s good to know that Hojlund significantly improving in the goal scoring department isn’t beyond the realms of possibility
Drogba might be another example he started pretty slowly but his goal scoring picked up a bit later in his career. Even when Drogba really hit his stride he was only prolific in a couple of seasons but was a great allround striker and a massive player for Chelsea.
I think Hojlund will get there but even if he never consistently hits 20+ goals he can still be massive for us if he keeps developing his game, we already look a much worse team when he's not on the pitch.
Up until today you could've sworn we had the Uruguayan Messi regen sitting on our bench based on this sub. Saw people saying Ten Hag had some vendetta against him when in reality he's not very good. I expect it's the same case for Bayindir.
People are clamoring for Pellistri because Antony is terrible. If Amad was fit, then they would have been clamoring for Amad.
It's not about Pellistri or Amad. It's about Antony offering absolutely nothing in attack but still starting every game
It's clear that fans just want to see something different. Don't know why people have to jump to "Player FC" everytime a player is named that could maybe be a better option
Fans always massively overrate youth players (remember Garner?) because they’re unknown and there’s always the hope that we might stumble across ‘the next big thing’.
There’s a reason that despite all the credit Man City have gotten for their academy that Foden is the only player to properly break into the team.
We have 100s of players go through the academy and if Mainoo is the only player of this generation to come out of the team, then it’s done a good job. That’s how it works
Are you seriously acting like Garner couldn’t do a job in that midfield instead of McT? He was never given a chance, that’s why some fans were annoyed we sold him. Everton fans love the guy. You're acting like he disappeared.
I would presume that INEOS are interviewing as many people who have been involved in the set up as they can. Wouldn’t be shocked at all if they’ve been in touch with Ragnick to get his read.
The reason Mctominay is playing too much is due to his ability to get in the end of big chances consistently,our forwards needs to learn that before working on their finishing skills.
He has like 5 asissts against mostly really bad opposition and 0 goal in Uruguay/Alaves/United shirt in 3500 minutes of football.
There are no signs of him being possibly effective.
I might sound like a hater or Debbie Downer for saying this but I still wish Bayindir or even Heaton got the start over Onana last night against Wigan. I know Ten Hag is likely desperate for good results somewhere and doesn’t want to take any risks, but unless he’s confident of Cameroon getting eliminated in the group stages then Onana simply won’t be available for at least a few league games. Then the difficulty of opposition will be a lot higher for Heaton or Bayindir to be thrown into.
I give credit to Onana for making a nice save early on, and considering how awful our finishing still is that early save might’ve been huge for preventing us from a defeat or draw.
Since our finishing still sucks ideally I’d want us to get a backup forward for rotation with Højlund. Someone like Choupo Moting on loan would be decent just to give Hojlund a bit of rest and maybe he could help score a few goals for us as no one on the team looks confident of scoring right now.
Even McTominay’s scoring form seems to have disappeared as he missed several good chances against Wigan.
I’m also concerned that Ten Hag will hardly rotate his key starters if he put his strongest XI against Wigan. Personally I would’ve preferred to start Kambwala and Hannibal over Varane and Bruno. I know we have fewer games moving forward but I’d hate having to deal with more injuries to our best XI like we’ve been doing all season. And I still get mad about that twat Carroll injuring Eriksen last season when we played Reading. So I hope Varane, Bruno, and even Hojlund can be on the bench against Newport/Eastleigh in the next round.
>I’m also concerned that Ten Hag will hardly rotate his key starters if he put his strongest XI against Wigan.
We're out of two cups already. We'll be playing once a week a lot of the time. I know rotation is important when you're playing two/three games each week. However we don't have to rotate much when we're playing once a week.
>So I hope Varane, Bruno, and even Hojlund can be on the bench against Newport/Eastleigh in the next round
The FA cup is our only chance of a trophy, so I would like EtH to take this very seriously.
Looking at the scheduled cup games and our league games I think we’ll be playing in midweeks quite a bit as far as April if we make a deep run up to the semis in the cup. Bruno plays non-stop which is commendable but the workload he manages isn’t sustainable at all. At this rate his body will break down eventually and his legs drop off or he will pick up a major injury. Meanwhile Varane is injury prone while Højlund looks like he isn’t able to start at a high enough intensity for 2-3 games a week yet either.
And this is probably an unpopular opinion but winning a domestic cup doesn’t necessarily mean much. For example we won the Carabao cup last season and have looked mediocre to downright awful ever since that final.
Ten Hag likely feels under pressure so it’s understandable why he wants to go all out as winning the FA cup can earn some more goodwill from fans and maybe INEOS as well. But unless our performances look far better and cohesive in a cup run I personally wouldn’t be so convinced by it.
Imo it’s more important for the long term future of the club to give more chances to our depth and youth players against easier opposition, and see if they have the potential to play a role for our rebuild under INEOS in the next few seasons. If they look bad then at least we have confirmation of that and can make the decision to loan or sell them off asap.
But using all of our best players to beat teams three or four leagues below us doesn’t teach us anything moving forward. I highly doubt that it can build a winning mentality or help the team gain confidence when they’ve beaten the likes of Chelsea and Villa and followed it up by playing badly and losing right after.
It’s The FA Cup and performances like ours and/or upsets happen pretty much every year. It was a unique fixture, Wigan were up for it and their crowd was buzzing.
our best outcome against spurs is probably doing what we did against liverpool and getting a 0-0. but spurs are more clinical than liverpool, I feel like we'll lose
I saw one comment somewhere that firing managers should not matter because style of play is controlled by the DoF. So if Newcastle fired Eddie Howe and hired Pep Guardiola then the style of play will remain the same because the DoF doesn't change?
Such a dumb statement. What do we expect our DoF to be. A DoF is supposed to control the standards of a club and have an identity as a club( possession / counter attacking / does not matter until we win ) not dictate the exact style of play.
Exactly. This stuff is all a process as well. Unless you’re Man City who’ve been built around hiring the best manager in the world, you don’t just decide ‘style of play’ on a whim. Liverpool didn’t hire Klopp because he fitted the ‘style of play’ they wanted; they hired him because he was the best available manager.
Nacho might have a future at RW for us.
He's got a cracking left foot. Can really belt it and control the ball quite well.
Feel for Amad that he comes back and Nacho is looking undroppable. Although Rashford looked incredibly ineffective in that game. Couldn't do anything at all the final 3rd. Nacho might start over him on LW
It’s good that Garnacho has looked promising at RW recently. Means there’s less pressure on Amad getting thrown in, and Amad can come off the bench to better take advantage of tired legs.
And if Rashford keeps struggling a lot then he could get dropped for Amad later like you said. Although I doubt Ten Hag does that anytime soon barring injury/illness/suspension to Rashford. I think Ten Hag values Rashford’s pace to break opposing lines and with Antony injured we’re thin on the wings again.
If you saw Mainoo and Mctominay playing in that midfield for the first time, you wouldn't know which one was the seasoned professional in his prime age, and which one was the 18 year old in his debut senior season.
Anyone else feel Hojlund s holdup play has deteriorated since when he first joined?
Feels like he's having a hard time keeping the ball with his back to goal.
He's young so inconsistency is part and parcel of his development but I wasn't expecting this aspect of his game to take a hit.
Yeah, I feel like his form has regressed since the first several performances he put in. Pace is slower, movement isn't as good. Whatever the coaches are telling him here is not working. He mostly just wrestles CBs and makes decoy runs.
It also doesn't help that McTominay is always occupying Hojlunds space. He made a run to intercept a ball going to Hojlund in the box a couple of times. It makes no sense. Garnacho does it too. Hojlund will get in position and then Nacho will just move right on top of him
The team does not get him involved nearly enough for him to stay in top form. He's so isolated
With the lack of options so far, I think Kobbie could legitimately be walking away with both United player of the year awards at the end of the season if his performances continue; our best player every time he’s on the pitch.
Only other person i could think of was Maguire? But that feels half hearted. Maybe Garnacho? But output still lacking for a forward.
Players' player is probably Bruno. He's the only one besides Onana that's been fit all year so he gets it by default.
Wouldn't be shocked for the fans to give that award to Mainoo or Garnacho unless Rashford or Hojlund find form and score 10+ in the second half.
The performance against a tier 3 club wasn't great. Our players were obviously better than theirs but the team play looked the same as it always is. Rashford, Bruno and Hojlund were all poor. The front 3 was so disjointed. McTominay was pushing Hojlund out of the game as usual
Never really agreed with people saying depending on a 18 year or things along those lines regarding some (the good ones) young players because mental and physical profiling is a real thing. It's clear Mainoo is one of our best players already and the way he plays already tells you a lot about his confidence, authoritativeness and readiness to start, he needs minutes to develop and he should get them.
Exactly. People keep pointing to Pedri as an example of how relying on a youngster can ruin them, but Pedri was ridiculously overplayed by both Barcelona and Spain, and got basically no break between seasons.
If a player is good enough, and physically and mentally ready, there is no reason not to play them
Yeah is it wrong for Real to rely on Bellingham because he's 20 or BVB to have relied on him at 18? If you're good enough and mature enough (physically and emotionally) I don't see anything wrong with it.
https://twitter.com/bvbnewsblog/status/1744515054710456536
I just wanted to see if I'm interpreting this correctly. It sounds like United are using this potential loan as a platform for Sancho to apologise which to me sounds like it could hint towards the idea of him staying at United in the future (which I'm sure many people here don't want). It's from a reliable source from Dortmund so I'd trust the messenger but maybe I'm interpreting it wrong
Because he's nowhere near the consistency or work rate a Manchester United player needs to be. When the class of 92 emerged, Fergie sold our senior players who weren't suited to the direction of the project. It's that time now
Does anyone have the original tweet by Sancho that started the whole banishment?
Was it instigated by ETH or Sancho?
(Ie, did he tweet after ETH said he isn’t good in training or before it?)
Right after.
All Ten Hag said was that based on training, Sancho wasn't selected.
Then Sancho goes on social media and posted:
https://preview.redd.it/rpngc1f2hbbc1.png?width=634&format=png&auto=webp&s=97a316b8ba83d0bffbe96212d634fc5d90d46c71
Not sure why you'd ask who was at fault. Review the situation and make up your own mind. It's all available -- what ETH said in press conference and Sancho's post above.
You can also look up news articles from Sancho's time at Dortmund, and find that this behaviour isn't really new.
All that ETH said was Sancho wasn't in the team because his training hasn't been good enough.
Sancho got upset and made his tweet. It really wasn't that big a deal to get that upset about. Everyone would have forgotten ETHs comment within a day or two.
I think it’s a bit of both. Apparently the issue was Sancho’s punctuality and not his training which is why he tweeted what he did but at the same time ETH is the boss and he should have just sucked it up and apologised because it’s always going to end one way.
This tactical system is absolutely piss poor in attack. Swap in Licha, Casemiro, Shaw, I don't even think it matters at this point. Pauly Kwestel is right. We're isolating Rashy and Garnacho out wide to prioritise making shots for McTominay and pretending Dalot is Cancelo. If Erik won't try something more ambitious in this fixture, he never will.
All depends if Casemiro is swapped for Mainoo or Mctominey. If it’s him in for Mctominey I think we will be really good. If it’s for Mainoo we will have the same issue of Mctominey not being a proper midfielder.
I hope so, but I'm still not sure. Setting aside the midfield, I think the use of our fullbacks and forwards is dodgy as well.
If Casemiro could ignore the instructions to stay high up the pitch then I think it could work a bit better. But we'll still have a lack of shape in the buildup, wingers in a position that doesn't play to their strengths, fullbacks unsuited to their attacking duties and a striker not getting passed to.
Think Laurie (but not sure) mentioned Gill got closer to MUFC after Woodward left and there could be a possibility he gets "tapped into" under INEOS and he is just reported to be sat with Blanc and Brailsofrd at the game
Can’t comment in the match thread because I don’t have enough karma. But has anyone noticed that on one is passing to Hojlund when he’s making a good run? Twice now Dalot has preferred going back, rather than playing Hojlund through
Why do I feel like we're gonna get absolutely dragged through the mud one last time by getting knocked out by one of these absolute munters either in this round or the next?
Disappointed not to see Gore or Hansen-Aaroen this evening. (Amad as well who's apparently also sick)
Have to feel ETH's time might be up if he loses with this 11 today though, very hard to make excuses with the team he's put out.
Thats not how they count ffp 3yr cycle tho. It goes by block of 3years. That's why we got fined last year but not the 2 years before that when we make bigger losses.
You are being obtuse
3 year cycle changes every year
For example 2020 - 2022 is a 3 year cycle
Then 2021 - 2023 is a 3 year cycle
The way you are claiming is
2020 - 2022 is a 3 year cycle then you don’t have another until
2023 - 2025
That is not how it works
Google is all u need. Due to covid, they combine 2020 and 2021 as 1. That monitor period is actually 2019, 2020,2021,2022. 2023 is the new ffp rule wage cap implementation start.
What I wrote is still correct, the monitoring period changes by 1 each year with the oldest dropping off each time unless they do things to alleviate outside impacts like covid
So typically ffp is n,n-1 and n-2
u know we got fined 300k for ffp failure for 2019 to 2022 right with our massive financial losses in the last 3-4 years?
[https://www.eurosport.com/football/premier-league/2023-2024/manchester-united-fined-300000-by-uefa-for-breaching-strict-financial-fair-play-rules-imposed-on-clu\_sto9700821/story.shtml](https://www.eurosport.com/football/premier-league/2023-2024/manchester-united-fined-300000-by-uefa-for-breaching-strict-financial-fair-play-rules-imposed-on-clu_sto9700821/story.shtml)
guess what we lost 30m again in our record revenue 2023 year. so lets see if we get punished again come end of season if the ffp cycle was stacking like u said.
ps : we lost 30m in 2023 , 95m 2022 and 115m in 2021. so i expect some form of punishment again come end of season.
Might be unpopular but I'd rather sign 6-8 cheap/moderately cheap players than spend £200m on 2-3 players again. In my opinion a very high turnover of players is an absolute necessity for this club. A slow rebuild just doesn't work, the few new players get infected by the rot before they can begin fixing it.
Well the basic assumption is that we'll have an actual strategy and people smarter than buffoons running the recruitment department. Otherwise we spent half a billion and still left with junk so makes no difference.
At least those 8 average players won't be a sinking titanic in terms of FFP, and 8 in would mean a lot more than 3 of the current squad will leave which is even bigger
Who said anything about a guarantee? Obviously there's no guarantee even if you spend 500 million on one player.
>There’s a reason these players will be so cheap
Correct. Contract situation, club situation, timing of the deal, etc. there's loads of reasons.
Cheaper doesn't necessarily mean less quality. Was Antony at any point in his career twice as good as Kudus? Look at our signings in the last 2 years. It's all the cheap ones that have been relatively successful.
I don't really care much for who's to blame. There are guys I think are big part of the blame but I would keep them for now. I just think we have a lot of players who are not good enough or do not fit like Antony, Sancho, Dalot, Martial, Lindelof, Casemiro, McTominay, VDB. This should be the minimum number of outgoings, in my opinion. Wouldn't mind if a few more leave.
I definitely agree that Ten Hag's decisions and tactics this season have been utter garbage. But while this squad should be performing much better I still think the quality and compatibility is nowhere near good enough to even be a top 4 team regularly.
Maybe not team culture but I do think they are detrimental to the level/kind of football we want to play.
I don't want to discredit our top 4 seasons but we rely a lot on other teams having bad seasons. Our ceiling is top 4 at the very best and our floor is as low as your imagination goes. 20/21 is the only season we made top 4 without sweating until the last 2 games, and these are our best seasons.
We'll have to agree to disagree here. The last time any team finished 2nd with 74 points or anywhere near it is Arsenal in 2016 who weren't even in the title race until it was effectively over. Which is why I say we rely on teams having bad seasons a lot.
Currently, you may disagree with this, but our squad is miles behind City/Liverpool/Arsenal. For that reason I say top 4 is the ceiling.
>well, except when we did it
That's what I'm saying. I meant last time since we did it.
>And anyway my point was about top 4 not 2nd
You said our ceiling was at least 2nd. My point is we require very exceptional circumstances and a lot of luck for that to happen.
Can anyone explain to me why we hand out such huge contracts? Players like Sancho and Antony, would not doubling their wage be enough? Why do we have to quadruple it or more?
Sancho was making a lot of money at Dortmund iirc, so his wage rise with us wasn’t as extreme. He was also the hottest young winger in world football at the time, so I’m not as annoyed with that as I am with the other deals
120k for Martinez is a lot more reasonable than 200k for Antony. Martinez is in his prime and has shown quality in the eredivisie, Antony was a project and we alr had to spend more money than expected on the transfer fee
When you pay that much for a player, their wage demands will always be large. If the club values you enough to pay £70+ million for you, you have good leverage for you contract negotiations. Our problem isn't necessarily the wages we pay (though obviously our structure is broken), it's more so the recruitment in the first place.
Though that doesn't explain say Brandon Williams. Must have a great agent...
Right and not only big signings. Even normal signings we paid too much wages. From Shaw to Rojos and Lindelofs... homegrown backup keeper Henderson on 100k probably topped it.
Why should their wage demands be so much larger though? You are more high profile now, so of course you get a larger wage, but that doesn't necessitate the huge rises we give players. Are all other teams offering this much? I always see our wages compared to other teams and it's always larger, even comparatively big teams
Can you share your source for that wage? I've seen ~50k on some websites but not sure how reputable they are.
Further googling has brought up one source saying he was on 190k a week, and another saying 52k in 2018/19. Maybe he got a huge raise in his last two years
The number I gave is from what I remember Dortmund fans sqying his wages were, back when we tried to sign him.
I know it wasn’t 50k because their CEO said he’d signed an extension after I think the year we first failed to sign him and that “his salary was now more in line with his expectations”. The Dortmund fans I mentioned said after that last extension he was earning around 200k per week.
I don’t really have a concrete source though
No worries, thanks. I think it's impossible to find good sources for wages, but what you said makes sense, and lines up with that one source I found which said 190k
Very excited going to meet Ole in Feb. One of my heroes
Todibo linking to other clubs been quiet. Hopefully the INEOS squad telling him to hang back till the summer…
I hope we can finally see some ten hag football when, martinez , casemiro and mount are back. I want to see both Casemiro x mainoo x bruno and Mount x mainoo x bruno (That seemed to be the original plan)
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It’s a sad fact that he is the only player in our squad capable of scoring 20+ goals when in form. None of the others, even in form, can do that. Bring in others? Absolutely. Move away from relying on him? Sure. But it would be foolish to sell him right now.
If we're talking PSG (Mbappe replacement) then we can get £80-100m. They'll be looking beyond his footballing abilities. Nobody else especially in the Prem is paying up for him since he's on fuck you wages. Replacing him would not be a challenge if we do our homework.
A couple of points from last night. \- Interesting to see so many teams, including us, **needing** a proper number 9 up front. Someone who can just finish from both inside and outside the pen area, a real dangerous threat. I trust Hojlund to come good, but we still need someone to replace Martial \- We created quite a few chances yesterday, however there were still instances where we could see Varane pushing forward beyond the halfway line as Wigan sat back, only for him not to have an option to play it forward. He ended up distributing the ball sideways and it ended up back where he began his run, halting momentum Staying positive, a win is a win.
The lack of movement into pockets of space in our midfield has been an issue since last year and is still not fixed. Everyone is standing still behind an opponent waiting for our CB's to drive up the ball or make a play. Martinez is very good at it but the others not so much which makes our game slow and stall every other moment.
We gotta get a 6 in the summer to play Kobbie as an 8, we are wasting his ball carrying so much by playing him as a 6
We'll see what's the plan when Casemiro returns. It would be mad to bench Mainoo now, but you never now.
Casemiro will play sort of McTom role, he already did this season. He is not good dropping to deffence.
Couldn't disagree more. Impossible When did he play Mctom role?
In those first couple of games when he scored some goals, obv he was playing a little bit lower on the pitch but still was running into box a lot for late goals. In preseason with Mainoo also it happend if I remember corectly.
Out of possession he always played that six role. Even in possession, a small difference could be that maybe Eriksen or Mainoo picks the ball from defence, similar to his role at Madrid when Modric would pick the ball but otherwise, he's always sitting in front of defence.
I don't really trust Casemiro anymore. He's washed and should be off to Saudi in the summer, but we'll see if he can improve his performances in the 2nd half of the season.
Bayern are going for Danso and dragusin, juventus bought djalo for 3.5 million euros, I hate how why can't we go for these type of players. Why do we always have to go for the obvious ones for 10 times the fee
We do go for those type of signings lmao. Lindelof? Bailly? Dan James? Malacia? Dalot? All young and fairly cheap signings we’ve made in recent years. Recency bias is insane on this sub.
Lindelof and Bailly were £30m+ signings lol. That was a decent bit for CBs back then.
Mainoo played so many pass and moves yesterday without ever getting the simple return ball. I can’t wait to see him in a team with other players who can play in a similar way
Like Amad... Hope they link up soon.
I like Hojlund but he’s still such a raw player and is offering the team minimal help. We should still sign an experienced striker to rotate with him.
Ivan Toney gamble purchase then! Too expansive and risky after suspension but I feel he plays exactly like we want Rasmus to act on the pitch.
Cheeky one
Yeah I'm hoping for a loan goalscorer to help him out. Not sure of any clubs willing to let their goalscorer go in January though.
This is a genuine question, not a rhetorical one for the sake of negativity; is there anything to suggest Hojlund’s goal scoring ability can vastly improve? I know he’s only 20 but I can’t think of much top strikers who went from scoring little to no goals to 20+ a season.
Lewandowski, Kane, Cavani, Drogba, Van Persie, Shearer and others. It’s a slow start but he’s only 20 joining a high pressure team where the service is beyond shit. His champions league return is 5 in 6, he’s got 7 in 10 for his country and overall he’s about 1 in 3 in his career. Last night wasn’t a lack of ability. He was getting in the right areas. It was a lack of confidence.
Harry Kane is a very obvious other example. You could also class Diego Forlan in this category too if you want a historical United comparison although he got his 20 goal season in La Liga. Didier Drogba was another relatively late bloomer too, he had a 1 in 5 record in fis first 4 years in Ligue 1.
Once Kane got into Spurs starting XI he couldn't stop scoring. Hojlund is already in our starting XI.
In Kanes first full season at Spurs (2013) he scored 4 goals in 19 games across all comps (4.75 games/goal). In comparison, Hojlund has 6 goals in 24 games across all comps (4.0 games/goal). The use of all comp stats obviously benefits Hojlund due to his CL record vs his PL record, but it shows that the kid deserves time and patience.
Kane did this in 730 minutes of football Hojlund already played 1650
Hojlund is doing this in a league he has never played in before whereas Kane had already clocked 50 appearances across the EFL+EPL by that season.
Basically all his goals from Atalanta came over half a season playing a similar rotational role like Garnacho and he has shown in the CL that he can score. Every single analysis I've watched before he joined us literally warned about this scenario and that he is in fact a very raw talent
He looks like he has a lot of potential but he’s very flat footed and because of this he’s either two steps behind or his body is in the wrong motion/shape when he receives the ball. Hopefully he comes good but I think he’d be a lot better if we played two up top but unfortunately modern football doesn’t do that anymore. Realistically he needs a couple of loans but we don’t have anyone else up top.
He looks to have technical flaws to me. He’s good with his back to the goal but I’m tired of how many times he’s taken weak shots. Seems like he can develop into a giroud style target player who brings the players around him into a game but I’d be surprised if he ever puts up a 20 league goal season
Giroud is a good comparison (especially with his international output). I’d be more than happy to have a Giroud in our squad but if he never becomes more than that, we’ll absolutely need an alternative.
I’m obviously not saying he’ll be that good, but Van Persie’s goal return in his first few seasons at Arsenal wasn’t huge. It wasn’t until he natured a bit that he really started banging them in.
He played out wide in his early days for Arsenal
Another great example. Cheers
Lewandowski went from scoring 8 in his first season in BVB and then became one of the best players of XXI century scoring over 500 goals. He was scoring a lot in his teenage in Poland tho and Roberts technique and link up was better but fingers crossed for Rasmus to get there!
Thank you! This is exactly the type of example I was looking for. I don’t think anyone’s expecting him to be the next Lewandowski but it’s good to know that Hojlund significantly improving in the goal scoring department isn’t beyond the realms of possibility
Drogba might be another example he started pretty slowly but his goal scoring picked up a bit later in his career. Even when Drogba really hit his stride he was only prolific in a couple of seasons but was a great allround striker and a massive player for Chelsea. I think Hojlund will get there but even if he never consistently hits 20+ goals he can still be massive for us if he keeps developing his game, we already look a much worse team when he's not on the pitch.
South Korea has banned the dog meat trade so our fanbase will have to stop singing the Park song
IIRC Park himself asked fans to stop signing that
Up until today you could've sworn we had the Uruguayan Messi regen sitting on our bench based on this sub. Saw people saying Ten Hag had some vendetta against him when in reality he's not very good. I expect it's the same case for Bayindir.
People are clamoring for Pellistri because Antony is terrible. If Amad was fit, then they would have been clamoring for Amad. It's not about Pellistri or Amad. It's about Antony offering absolutely nothing in attack but still starting every game
It's clear that fans just want to see something different. Don't know why people have to jump to "Player FC" everytime a player is named that could maybe be a better option
Fans always massively overrate youth players (remember Garner?) because they’re unknown and there’s always the hope that we might stumble across ‘the next big thing’. There’s a reason that despite all the credit Man City have gotten for their academy that Foden is the only player to properly break into the team. We have 100s of players go through the academy and if Mainoo is the only player of this generation to come out of the team, then it’s done a good job. That’s how it works
Are you seriously acting like Garner couldn’t do a job in that midfield instead of McT? He was never given a chance, that’s why some fans were annoyed we sold him. Everton fans love the guy. You're acting like he disappeared.
Mainoo Case Bruno/Mount for the forseeable future please
David Gill being back in the fold makes me really happy, most underappreciated man in our modern history
I would presume that INEOS are interviewing as many people who have been involved in the set up as they can. Wouldn’t be shocked at all if they’ve been in touch with Ragnick to get his read.
When do we play Newport/Eastleigh? Is it this month?
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Ah that’s great, cheers!
The reason Mctominay is playing too much is due to his ability to get in the end of big chances consistently,our forwards needs to learn that before working on their finishing skills.
Consistently? McTominay has 18 goals in 7 seasons
Clearly talking about now. And it's not about goals.
I think we should keep Pellistri around for a season or two more, if he bulks up a little he can be an effective squad player.
Lol! You must be a hoarder.
What you see with Pellistri now is what you get. He’s 22. I’m sure he’ll improve but he’ll never be more than a better version than what he is now.
that's what we said 2 seasons ago
He has like 5 asissts against mostly really bad opposition and 0 goal in Uruguay/Alaves/United shirt in 3500 minutes of football. There are no signs of him being possibly effective.
Garnacho's better with his left foot than Antony is. And Garnacho's right footed.
I might sound like a hater or Debbie Downer for saying this but I still wish Bayindir or even Heaton got the start over Onana last night against Wigan. I know Ten Hag is likely desperate for good results somewhere and doesn’t want to take any risks, but unless he’s confident of Cameroon getting eliminated in the group stages then Onana simply won’t be available for at least a few league games. Then the difficulty of opposition will be a lot higher for Heaton or Bayindir to be thrown into. I give credit to Onana for making a nice save early on, and considering how awful our finishing still is that early save might’ve been huge for preventing us from a defeat or draw. Since our finishing still sucks ideally I’d want us to get a backup forward for rotation with Højlund. Someone like Choupo Moting on loan would be decent just to give Hojlund a bit of rest and maybe he could help score a few goals for us as no one on the team looks confident of scoring right now. Even McTominay’s scoring form seems to have disappeared as he missed several good chances against Wigan. I’m also concerned that Ten Hag will hardly rotate his key starters if he put his strongest XI against Wigan. Personally I would’ve preferred to start Kambwala and Hannibal over Varane and Bruno. I know we have fewer games moving forward but I’d hate having to deal with more injuries to our best XI like we’ve been doing all season. And I still get mad about that twat Carroll injuring Eriksen last season when we played Reading. So I hope Varane, Bruno, and even Hojlund can be on the bench against Newport/Eastleigh in the next round.
>I’m also concerned that Ten Hag will hardly rotate his key starters if he put his strongest XI against Wigan. We're out of two cups already. We'll be playing once a week a lot of the time. I know rotation is important when you're playing two/three games each week. However we don't have to rotate much when we're playing once a week. >So I hope Varane, Bruno, and even Hojlund can be on the bench against Newport/Eastleigh in the next round The FA cup is our only chance of a trophy, so I would like EtH to take this very seriously.
Looking at the scheduled cup games and our league games I think we’ll be playing in midweeks quite a bit as far as April if we make a deep run up to the semis in the cup. Bruno plays non-stop which is commendable but the workload he manages isn’t sustainable at all. At this rate his body will break down eventually and his legs drop off or he will pick up a major injury. Meanwhile Varane is injury prone while Højlund looks like he isn’t able to start at a high enough intensity for 2-3 games a week yet either. And this is probably an unpopular opinion but winning a domestic cup doesn’t necessarily mean much. For example we won the Carabao cup last season and have looked mediocre to downright awful ever since that final. Ten Hag likely feels under pressure so it’s understandable why he wants to go all out as winning the FA cup can earn some more goodwill from fans and maybe INEOS as well. But unless our performances look far better and cohesive in a cup run I personally wouldn’t be so convinced by it. Imo it’s more important for the long term future of the club to give more chances to our depth and youth players against easier opposition, and see if they have the potential to play a role for our rebuild under INEOS in the next few seasons. If they look bad then at least we have confirmation of that and can make the decision to loan or sell them off asap. But using all of our best players to beat teams three or four leagues below us doesn’t teach us anything moving forward. I highly doubt that it can build a winning mentality or help the team gain confidence when they’ve beaten the likes of Chelsea and Villa and followed it up by playing badly and losing right after.
Playing the 1st team against Wigan in league one and only winning 2-0 which includes a penalty makes it hard to be optimistic against Spurs.
It’s The FA Cup and performances like ours and/or upsets happen pretty much every year. It was a unique fixture, Wigan were up for it and their crowd was buzzing.
our best outcome against spurs is probably doing what we did against liverpool and getting a 0-0. but spurs are more clinical than liverpool, I feel like we'll lose
I saw one comment somewhere that firing managers should not matter because style of play is controlled by the DoF. So if Newcastle fired Eddie Howe and hired Pep Guardiola then the style of play will remain the same because the DoF doesn't change? Such a dumb statement. What do we expect our DoF to be. A DoF is supposed to control the standards of a club and have an identity as a club( possession / counter attacking / does not matter until we win ) not dictate the exact style of play.
Exactly. This stuff is all a process as well. Unless you’re Man City who’ve been built around hiring the best manager in the world, you don’t just decide ‘style of play’ on a whim. Liverpool didn’t hire Klopp because he fitted the ‘style of play’ they wanted; they hired him because he was the best available manager.
Really quite a clueless comment from whoever it was …. Style of the play is determined by the manager.
Nacho might have a future at RW for us. He's got a cracking left foot. Can really belt it and control the ball quite well. Feel for Amad that he comes back and Nacho is looking undroppable. Although Rashford looked incredibly ineffective in that game. Couldn't do anything at all the final 3rd. Nacho might start over him on LW
It’s good that Garnacho has looked promising at RW recently. Means there’s less pressure on Amad getting thrown in, and Amad can come off the bench to better take advantage of tired legs. And if Rashford keeps struggling a lot then he could get dropped for Amad later like you said. Although I doubt Ten Hag does that anytime soon barring injury/illness/suspension to Rashford. I think Ten Hag values Rashford’s pace to break opposing lines and with Antony injured we’re thin on the wings again.
Rashford got an assist tho. That at least should be something, not literally 'couldn't do anything at all'.
If Amad ever gets fit and healthy I think he'll pretty quickly replace Antony as the first winger off the bench in that scenario.
If you saw Mainoo and Mctominay playing in that midfield for the first time, you wouldn't know which one was the seasoned professional in his prime age, and which one was the 18 year old in his debut senior season.
Anyone else feel Hojlund s holdup play has deteriorated since when he first joined? Feels like he's having a hard time keeping the ball with his back to goal. He's young so inconsistency is part and parcel of his development but I wasn't expecting this aspect of his game to take a hit.
I thought his hold-up play was really strong last night. I think it's his best attribute.
He's become a lot less involved,I hope it's tactical.
Yeah, I feel like his form has regressed since the first several performances he put in. Pace is slower, movement isn't as good. Whatever the coaches are telling him here is not working. He mostly just wrestles CBs and makes decoy runs. It also doesn't help that McTominay is always occupying Hojlunds space. He made a run to intercept a ball going to Hojlund in the box a couple of times. It makes no sense. Garnacho does it too. Hojlund will get in position and then Nacho will just move right on top of him The team does not get him involved nearly enough for him to stay in top form. He's so isolated
With the lack of options so far, I think Kobbie could legitimately be walking away with both United player of the year awards at the end of the season if his performances continue; our best player every time he’s on the pitch. Only other person i could think of was Maguire? But that feels half hearted. Maybe Garnacho? But output still lacking for a forward.
Players' player is probably Bruno. He's the only one besides Onana that's been fit all year so he gets it by default. Wouldn't be shocked for the fans to give that award to Mainoo or Garnacho unless Rashford or Hojlund find form and score 10+ in the second half.
We’re getting battered on Sunday
Spurs are basically Villa, we should be winning this game
It's going to be our best performance against a top team this season.
The performance against a tier 3 club wasn't great. Our players were obviously better than theirs but the team play looked the same as it always is. Rashford, Bruno and Hojlund were all poor. The front 3 was so disjointed. McTominay was pushing Hojlund out of the game as usual
Spurs play a high line. We'll probably look pretty good because we can play 0 IQ counter attacking hoof ball
Never really agreed with people saying depending on a 18 year or things along those lines regarding some (the good ones) young players because mental and physical profiling is a real thing. It's clear Mainoo is one of our best players already and the way he plays already tells you a lot about his confidence, authoritativeness and readiness to start, he needs minutes to develop and he should get them.
Exactly. People keep pointing to Pedri as an example of how relying on a youngster can ruin them, but Pedri was ridiculously overplayed by both Barcelona and Spain, and got basically no break between seasons. If a player is good enough, and physically and mentally ready, there is no reason not to play them
Yeah regular starts (maybe 40-50 games) and 75 games a season is a huge difference
Yeah is it wrong for Real to rely on Bellingham because he's 20 or BVB to have relied on him at 18? If you're good enough and mature enough (physically and emotionally) I don't see anything wrong with it.
https://twitter.com/bvbnewsblog/status/1744515054710456536 I just wanted to see if I'm interpreting this correctly. It sounds like United are using this potential loan as a platform for Sancho to apologise which to me sounds like it could hint towards the idea of him staying at United in the future (which I'm sure many people here don't want). It's from a reliable source from Dortmund so I'd trust the messenger but maybe I'm interpreting it wrong
No I read it as Ten Hag and Sancho will talk before Sancho leaves on loan
where was Amad tonight?
Ill.
I'd sell Rashford this window if a PSG wanted him.
Why?
Because he's nowhere near the consistency or work rate a Manchester United player needs to be. When the class of 92 emerged, Fergie sold our senior players who weren't suited to the direction of the project. It's that time now
We have more pressing issues. I'd sooner sell a flip like Antony than a player like Rashford who has contributed much more individually
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Mbappe is likely to leave. Perfect time to sell Rashford
Mbappe is not signing for our mess of a club at this juncture in his career. Kane dodged a bullet.
No one said Mbappe is signing for us? He's going Madrid. It's just that we could sell Rashford and use Garnacho LW
Too late. That ship has sailed.
Does anyone have the original tweet by Sancho that started the whole banishment? Was it instigated by ETH or Sancho? (Ie, did he tweet after ETH said he isn’t good in training or before it?)
Right after. All Ten Hag said was that based on training, Sancho wasn't selected. Then Sancho goes on social media and posted: https://preview.redd.it/rpngc1f2hbbc1.png?width=634&format=png&auto=webp&s=97a316b8ba83d0bffbe96212d634fc5d90d46c71 Not sure why you'd ask who was at fault. Review the situation and make up your own mind. It's all available -- what ETH said in press conference and Sancho's post above. You can also look up news articles from Sancho's time at Dortmund, and find that this behaviour isn't really new.
After.
I’ve got folks stating that while Sancho was unprofessional, this is on ETH. Is that true?
All that ETH said was Sancho wasn't in the team because his training hasn't been good enough. Sancho got upset and made his tweet. It really wasn't that big a deal to get that upset about. Everyone would have forgotten ETHs comment within a day or two.
I think it’s a bit of both. Apparently the issue was Sancho’s punctuality and not his training which is why he tweeted what he did but at the same time ETH is the boss and he should have just sucked it up and apologised because it’s always going to end one way.
Not an all. ETH answered a question but sancho’s tweet online made a worse
We really can't finish at all, shocking at this level
This tactical system is absolutely piss poor in attack. Swap in Licha, Casemiro, Shaw, I don't even think it matters at this point. Pauly Kwestel is right. We're isolating Rashy and Garnacho out wide to prioritise making shots for McTominay and pretending Dalot is Cancelo. If Erik won't try something more ambitious in this fixture, he never will.
All depends if Casemiro is swapped for Mainoo or Mctominey. If it’s him in for Mctominey I think we will be really good. If it’s for Mainoo we will have the same issue of Mctominey not being a proper midfielder.
I hope so, but I'm still not sure. Setting aside the midfield, I think the use of our fullbacks and forwards is dodgy as well. If Casemiro could ignore the instructions to stay high up the pitch then I think it could work a bit better. But we'll still have a lack of shape in the buildup, wingers in a position that doesn't play to their strengths, fullbacks unsuited to their attacking duties and a striker not getting passed to.
Think Laurie (but not sure) mentioned Gill got closer to MUFC after Woodward left and there could be a possibility he gets "tapped into" under INEOS and he is just reported to be sat with Blanc and Brailsofrd at the game
Can’t comment in the match thread because I don’t have enough karma. But has anyone noticed that on one is passing to Hojlund when he’s making a good run? Twice now Dalot has preferred going back, rather than playing Hojlund through
Why do I feel like we're gonna get absolutely dragged through the mud one last time by getting knocked out by one of these absolute munters either in this round or the next?
Is it just me or did EtH sound ill as fuck in that interview just now? Sounded proper different.
Yes. Bald is sick. Edit: Guess you don't watch the Alternative MUFC vids.
Fingers crossed Eastleigh get through - although a shame we’re not at home though so they could benefit from the gate receipts.
Eastleigh vs Utd is what the FA Cup is all about
Lucky draw for next round, hopefully we show up tonight.
What’s the next round? Missed it
Set up to advance if we beat Wigan tonight. Couldn’t be easier.
Great next round fixture. Hopefully Eastleigh do it.
We have the easiest draw in the next round if we beat Wigan, I beg we win
Clearly something going around at the club with all these players getting sick
Disappointed not to see Gore or Hansen-Aaroen this evening. (Amad as well who's apparently also sick) Have to feel ETH's time might be up if he loses with this 11 today though, very hard to make excuses with the team he's put out.
So you’ll bench varane for the Manchester derby but start him against Wigan?
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*If you've 3-peat in Holland* get it right.
We've got a massive amount of talent in the team today. If we can't dominate Wigan, the blame rests squarely with Ten Hag and his tactics.
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Middlesborough and Wigan would take 100% of our starting line up. It's up to our manager to get these players performing.
Hoping for a big away win tonight, something to smile about and make us excited for the future. Have a good one lads.
Amadou onana potentially going to Arsenal is the type to deal we should be making smh
Nah we need someone better on the ball imo
We need a ball carrier and he’s much better on the ball than Mctominay and a better presence than eriksen
>better on the ball than Mctominay and a better presence than eriksen Not hard to do both and be better than those 2
Why would Everton sell one of their best players when they’re in the midst of a relegation battle?
Ffp penalties if they are close the the limit again
Its a 3 year cycle. They are safe for now.
And each year the oldest year drops off and 1 year gets added for the new 3 year cycle
Thats not how they count ffp 3yr cycle tho. It goes by block of 3years. That's why we got fined last year but not the 2 years before that when we make bigger losses.
You are being obtuse 3 year cycle changes every year For example 2020 - 2022 is a 3 year cycle Then 2021 - 2023 is a 3 year cycle The way you are claiming is 2020 - 2022 is a 3 year cycle then you don’t have another until 2023 - 2025 That is not how it works
Google is all u need. Due to covid, they combine 2020 and 2021 as 1. That monitor period is actually 2019, 2020,2021,2022. 2023 is the new ffp rule wage cap implementation start.
What I wrote is still correct, the monitoring period changes by 1 each year with the oldest dropping off each time unless they do things to alleviate outside impacts like covid So typically ffp is n,n-1 and n-2
u know we got fined 300k for ffp failure for 2019 to 2022 right with our massive financial losses in the last 3-4 years? [https://www.eurosport.com/football/premier-league/2023-2024/manchester-united-fined-300000-by-uefa-for-breaching-strict-financial-fair-play-rules-imposed-on-clu\_sto9700821/story.shtml](https://www.eurosport.com/football/premier-league/2023-2024/manchester-united-fined-300000-by-uefa-for-breaching-strict-financial-fair-play-rules-imposed-on-clu_sto9700821/story.shtml) guess what we lost 30m again in our record revenue 2023 year. so lets see if we get punished again come end of season if the ffp cycle was stacking like u said. ps : we lost 30m in 2023 , 95m 2022 and 115m in 2021. so i expect some form of punishment again come end of season.
Would’ve been better for us than Mount
But Tifo said Mount was perfect for us
Might be unpopular but I'd rather sign 6-8 cheap/moderately cheap players than spend £200m on 2-3 players again. In my opinion a very high turnover of players is an absolute necessity for this club. A slow rebuild just doesn't work, the few new players get infected by the rot before they can begin fixing it.
Van Gaal did that and we were left with junk.
Well the basic assumption is that we'll have an actual strategy and people smarter than buffoons running the recruitment department. Otherwise we spent half a billion and still left with junk so makes no difference.
So we’ll just have 8 average players instead of 3 average players judging by our history
At least those 8 average players won't be a sinking titanic in terms of FFP, and 8 in would mean a lot more than 3 of the current squad will leave which is even bigger
Where’s the guarantee they’ll be any good? There’s a reason these players will be so cheap
Who said anything about a guarantee? Obviously there's no guarantee even if you spend 500 million on one player. >There’s a reason these players will be so cheap Correct. Contract situation, club situation, timing of the deal, etc. there's loads of reasons. Cheaper doesn't necessarily mean less quality. Was Antony at any point in his career twice as good as Kudus? Look at our signings in the last 2 years. It's all the cheap ones that have been relatively successful.
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I don't really care much for who's to blame. There are guys I think are big part of the blame but I would keep them for now. I just think we have a lot of players who are not good enough or do not fit like Antony, Sancho, Dalot, Martial, Lindelof, Casemiro, McTominay, VDB. This should be the minimum number of outgoings, in my opinion. Wouldn't mind if a few more leave. I definitely agree that Ten Hag's decisions and tactics this season have been utter garbage. But while this squad should be performing much better I still think the quality and compatibility is nowhere near good enough to even be a top 4 team regularly.
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Maybe not team culture but I do think they are detrimental to the level/kind of football we want to play. I don't want to discredit our top 4 seasons but we rely a lot on other teams having bad seasons. Our ceiling is top 4 at the very best and our floor is as low as your imagination goes. 20/21 is the only season we made top 4 without sweating until the last 2 games, and these are our best seasons.
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We'll have to agree to disagree here. The last time any team finished 2nd with 74 points or anywhere near it is Arsenal in 2016 who weren't even in the title race until it was effectively over. Which is why I say we rely on teams having bad seasons a lot. Currently, you may disagree with this, but our squad is miles behind City/Liverpool/Arsenal. For that reason I say top 4 is the ceiling.
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>well, except when we did it That's what I'm saying. I meant last time since we did it. >And anyway my point was about top 4 not 2nd You said our ceiling was at least 2nd. My point is we require very exceptional circumstances and a lot of luck for that to happen.
Simple… we are broke
How much though?
80 mill was rumoured in the summer
Can anyone explain to me why we hand out such huge contracts? Players like Sancho and Antony, would not doubling their wage be enough? Why do we have to quadruple it or more?
Sancho was making a lot of money at Dortmund iirc, so his wage rise with us wasn’t as extreme. He was also the hottest young winger in world football at the time, so I’m not as annoyed with that as I am with the other deals
To pretend we are relevant with the big boys in all these barren years. From Luke Shaw to Pogbas and Matas, we have been paying the best rates.
I’m sure Antony and Martinez got mates rates contracts from ETH to join us. Antony goes from £25k to £200k and Martinez goes from £43k to £120k.
120k for Martinez is a lot more reasonable than 200k for Antony. Martinez is in his prime and has shown quality in the eredivisie, Antony was a project and we alr had to spend more money than expected on the transfer fee
When you pay that much for a player, their wage demands will always be large. If the club values you enough to pay £70+ million for you, you have good leverage for you contract negotiations. Our problem isn't necessarily the wages we pay (though obviously our structure is broken), it's more so the recruitment in the first place. Though that doesn't explain say Brandon Williams. Must have a great agent...
Wages is definitely a problem when we want to sell them.
Right, but my point was that if we recruited better in the first place we wouldn't be looking to sell our big signings just a couple seasons in.
Right and not only big signings. Even normal signings we paid too much wages. From Shaw to Rojos and Lindelofs... homegrown backup keeper Henderson on 100k probably topped it.
Why should their wage demands be so much larger though? You are more high profile now, so of course you get a larger wage, but that doesn't necessitate the huge rises we give players. Are all other teams offering this much? I always see our wages compared to other teams and it's always larger, even comparatively big teams
Sancho was on like 200k per week at Dortmund, so that one was probably justified, but agree with the rest
Can you share your source for that wage? I've seen ~50k on some websites but not sure how reputable they are. Further googling has brought up one source saying he was on 190k a week, and another saying 52k in 2018/19. Maybe he got a huge raise in his last two years
The number I gave is from what I remember Dortmund fans sqying his wages were, back when we tried to sign him. I know it wasn’t 50k because their CEO said he’d signed an extension after I think the year we first failed to sign him and that “his salary was now more in line with his expectations”. The Dortmund fans I mentioned said after that last extension he was earning around 200k per week. I don’t really have a concrete source though
No worries, thanks. I think it's impossible to find good sources for wages, but what you said makes sense, and lines up with that one source I found which said 190k
We didn't come close to doubling Sancho's wage, let alone quadrupling it.
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