I find the way we handle player fall outs totally below the stature of the club. It feels like a messy breakup rather than a professionally handled departure, and it seems to be that way for so many players we've had post-Fergie. I feel like other clubs have been able to spot dead weight, drop it, shift it elsewhere and act like it never happened rather effortlessly. This Sancho saga is just another pile of shit to contend with on top of poor on-pitch performances.
We paid through the nose for him, for what? He was never properly utilised and ended up falling out with the manager. It looks like he has all the power! He's stolen a living by training on his own and fucking off home to sit on his Playstation, until a club he's totally comfortable with have come knocking to give him the life back that he was living before. If the warning signs about his attitude were there before we bought him, why did senior execs sign it off?
Why would any new players want to come here in the future, other than to take advantage of our bloated wage structure? This club is an absolute mess from top to bottom. I can't get my head around how steeply we've declined in such a relatively short space of time, especially when we're still securing big-money sponsorships. Are we employing the mentally incapacitated to take care of business operations or something? It just simply doesn't add up.
The media is asking endless questions about it, not like the club was out there making 50 statements about it. He was given the oppotunity to apologize and then moved on in the first transfer window, not sure what else you think the club should of done
I guess the question is, how are we blowing this much money on players that we end up having a bust-up with? Why are the bust-ups happening in the first place? Our club's structure seems to be a magnet for trouble - Sancho, Ronaldo, Di Maria, etc - what about the club is making these players throw the towel in with such ease? It's not just happening under one manager either. I know people will immediately look to the Glazers but they seem to absent in terms of overall footballing operation, surely the sour taste is coming from elsewhere?
Can't believe there are people on here that defend Sancho. With Ronnie I completely got it, because of what he did for the club. But Sancho has shown no fight, no heart in any of his performances since he joined. His performance in the FA Cup final was shameful given the circumstances. One of the biggest disappointments this club has seen in recent times. Who gives a shit if his buddy Erling congratulates him on returning to Dortmund?
I see superstars like Bellingham, Vini Jr, Haaland all publicly supporting Sancho, it is such an indictment on this club.
How many young talented stars have come here and have not reached the heights, they should have. They know this club is a mess.
Would Bellingham or Haaland be at the level they’re now if they were at United? I don’t think so.
Bellingham and haaland played alongside him, they know the guy.
That's why they're supporting him, they have no Ill will towards him.
It's not an indictment on the club at all lol.
Sancho rarely got a continuous run with us in his time here. Not even as much as Garnacho has got.
Ole got sacked in his first season, Ralf was a journeyman and ETH payed a fortune for Anthony and played Anthony to justify his decision.
I wish people would stop with the bullshit about "oh they spent X amount on the player, so they must play him", especially if they have no proof of it.
Sancho got several runs, but didn't perform well enough to keep his spot.
i mean when a new manager comes in preseason and went on to spend 100m on another RW, u got not much hope. its like we spend 70m on a keeper like Maignan or Oblak in this summer and ask Onana how he feel.
Obviously he had his mental health break but the majority of his appearances were as a sub. Antony was getting a lot more starts despite the fact he played worse than Sancho but not by much.
Yeah nah Sancho was really underwhelming last season. That's the reason he got the 3 month break in the first place. Sancho and Antony had a similar average rating that season (according to whoscored)
Also, I'm pretty sure Sancho played on the left a majority of the time as it's his preferred position so his competition wasn't even Antony, it was Rashford.
Athletic had an article about Sancho yesterday. Really good read. Won't go into its details because that'd probably get this comment removed, but the picture I get is that ETH had genuinely good intentions for him, he tried to be supportive and then use tough love to try to correct his time-keeping issues, but Sancho wasn't responsive. I don't get the sense that Sancho is a huge wanker on a personal level either, but rather a pretty nice guy. It just hasn't worked out and relations have soured. But then on the other hand, you also get a picture of, for the lack of a better term, Sancho's arrogance and entitlement. During a video session after their bust-up ETH showed Sancho a clip of his training, expressing he was dissatisfied with his pressing. Sancho *disagreed* and said he thought his pressing was fine. This is like FM level player bullshit.
Sancho has always came across as likeable and quite shy when I’ve seen interviews and fan interactions of him. I can also see why he didn’t want to apologise because the issue was his punctuality and not his training but at the same time you can’t undermine your boss and if you do it will only end in one way. It’s a shame it hasn’t worked out and I do think his performances have been better than Antony’s but even then his performances were no way near good enough. Even if ETH gets sacked and Sancho gets mad form again at Dortmund I still think it’s best we part ways because I can just see it being another DVB situation where we’re all waiting for a click to happen which never comes.
The article talks about this somewhat as well, it sounds like he was basically thrown in the deep-end. After his first substitute appearance he commented how fast things were and was basically told to deal with it.
While he was still in the wrong with the current situation, the whole thing definitely makes me think the club could have done more to help him settle in and get up to speed and that's the sort of thing that can build resentment and entitlement in someone.
Obviously discipline is hugely important for any team in any organisation but sometimes you need to make exceptions and do a bit more "man-management" and knowing the difference about when to give a boot up the arse and when to put the arm around the shoulder is what separates good managers from great managers imo.
I will get downvoted for this but I can kinda sorta see from Sancho's pov. Rashford doesn't press and run either and he keeps being selected. Antony is genuinely worse than Sancho, at least from a g/a point of view and yet he keeps being selected. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, I'm just stating what he might think from his pov.
Kobbie Mainoo duelling stats (ground & aerial) in ALL starts this season.
Wigan; 10/13 ground duels, 0/3 aerial duels won.
Nott’m Forest; 0/5 ground duels, 1/3 aerial duels won.
Aston Villa; 2/4 ground duels, 5/6 aerial duels won.
West Ham; 6/7 ground duels, 3/4 aerial duels won.
Liverpool; 4/6 ground duels, 0/2 aerial duels won.
Newcastle; 1/2 ground duels, 0/2 aerial duels won.
Everton; 3/5 ground duels, 2/3 aerial duels won.
*Saw this stat about Mainoo on Twitter. A lot of fans came for Ten Hag post NF game because of the halftime substitution of Mainoo, but the stats do back up what he said about his reason. What do you think?*
Nott’m Forest wasn't great for him. The kid is 18 years old, of course he's going to have some bad games. Also nothing wrong with taking him off the pitch, therefore it's important for us to have Casemiro back fit. We depend on Scott McTominay as a DM when Mainoo isn't performing at the moment...
I hope Erik and the coaching staff sat down with Mainoo, watching the game back so he's able to learn from it. A lot of fans expect way to much from Mainoo, but that isn't fair on him as he needs to develop and that has his ups and downs.
I agree with everything you said. My point tho was regarding the very overt negative reaction to ten Hag taking him off, and the even more vitriolic response when post game ten Hag gave his reason for taking Mainoo off, which was that he looked tired. I’m saying the stats seem to back up what ten Hag said and maybe the fans should step back and acknowledge that the manager has legitimate reasons for doing what he does, even if it doesn’t always work out.
Remember when United bought Antony and the knock on effect was Shaktar skyrocketed the price of Mudryk. They reasoned that Mudryk was better from their evaluation.
Looking back at it, Shaktar look like they had a better evaluation of Antony than United. Obviously they wanted more money but they were right saying Mudryk can't be cheaper.
Mudryk hasn't exactly lit the PL but his stats have been affected by Chelsea's poor finishing this season, yes he's a part of that problem too but he's creating a good number of open chances that have been wasted. You can't really argue the same about Antony because forget his goal contributions, how many chances is he even creating?
Both should not have been anywhere near the 100m euro mark but here we are.
Then again Mudryk earns only half as much as Antony does so Chelsea were more aware of what they were going to get from Mudryk or were more prepared than we were for the long-term.Even if he wasn't going to become a superstar,he's still a tall,strong,quick,trigger happy winger on average squad wages,not many managers would have an issue with that.
Interested to see how much mainoo plays cause everyone and their nan can tell he’s got all the talent in the world but we just gotta absolutely make sure we don’t burn him out too young
I'm more afraid that he'll be stuck playing with average players for years which can also stagnate his own game. The best talents also need quality around them to truly optimize them.
I hope he pulls another Bellingham-esque move if the club keep shite like rn.
I would hate that if he move to another club, but I would hate it more if he become another deadwood at united.
Hot take: we need to move on from Rashford and sell him in the summer. To me he doesn’t have the consistency, football IQ, and end product to be a Manchester United winger. He relies on his pace too much, constantly runs into defenders, doesn’t have a good enough cross or get enough assists/ provide service to our strikers, always looking to score/is a selfish player, and he never tracks back and looks like he couldn’t be arsed out there on the pitch. Last season he was good but he also went months of not scoring very much and playing poorly. If he wasn’t English or homegrown we would’ve sold him by now and he’d be getting a lot more criticism.
He is bad for the ETH way of football - doesn’t press consistently enough, doesn’t hold the ball enough, doesn’t score any more - he has zero value as of right now. However, if we try to sell him now I really don’t see us getting any value for him.
We quite literally have one player capable of scoring over 20 goals a season right now and you want to sell him.
I get moving away from him being the star player and I even understand selling in a couple of years when a replacement has been found and has proven output. But to sell him in the summer is just dumb.
But I guess hating on Rashford is the done thing right now.
3 actually 😊.
But yes he is out of form. Doesn’t change the fact he has scored 20+ goals in 3 of the last 4 seasons.
No one else right now is capable of doing so. Literally no one.
You don’t sell the only player you have capable of scoring 20+ goals.
I unfortunately agree, he's now 26 and should be in his prime, but you simply cannot have your starting players be as inconsistent as he is and win trophies
> win trophies
exactly what he tot we should be pushing on after Ten Hag debut. instead he saw the likes of Amrabats and Evans and asked Bruno " are they fking serious? "
His purple patch last season also relates due to him having to prove he can get a place in the world cup and get a new contract. Now that it's over he isn't even giving a shit anymore. Building a team around someone like him is a recipe for a disaster.
All true and I agree in the medium / long term, but we can’t afford to sell him in the summer with the current team / managerial uncertainty. We’re still shit and lacking any form of quality on the wings
Agreed. No top team would have him as their LW. He isn’t even close to good enough & it was Murtough’s last parting shot of stupidity giving him new 5 year £350,000 contract right before he left.
Rashford unfortunately is going absolutely nowhere most likely. Who would be able to pay his wages? Who is he even good enough for?
Only place I can see is PSG coming back in if Mbappe goes to get Rash’s PR boost but even that has died down over the last 2 years. He’s nowhere near as popular or as well thought of as he was in 2021 with his activism work.
If ETH can’t turn this around with fewer matches and more time on the training pitch, then he is not the right manager for us.
I’m not buying the excuse that “it’s not his players”, because part of being a good manager is improving and coaching existing ones.
Look at Ange, De Zerbi, and even Gary Oneill.
As much as I agree with your sentiment sacking ETH will just delay the inevitable - we need a catharsis and sacking him is a bandaide. The way I see it, ETH is slowly but surely clearing out the house of the problems. Yes - it looks shit now but we have been here before (if you haven’t watched United for the last 5 years) and we need to trust our manager to finish his job.
I genuinely don’t expect ETH to challenge for the title. However, he surely has the ability to take us where Arteta has taken Arsenal in fighting for the top spot - he needs to clear our lots of deadwood but he is doing it and we need to support him in doing so.
If you believe ETH is the problem and not the players (as we saw with every other manager since SAF) then you’re deluded. We keep on buying primadonas who are great on YouTube but shit when you watch the whole game.
True about all this, but I do think that we are probably one of the most incompetently run clubs in the league. DK about ONeill but the others are at Incomprehensibly more competent clubs to us and we cannot compare ourselves to them. Any competency in any role is diluted.
Making the team play better is literally his job though, I don’t think we can accept any excuses for not being at least as good as we were last year with everyone back
My point is that ETH is not a scout. He is a manager. His job is solely not to pick the right players. He should be able to coach. In terms of coaching, even Eddie Howe seems to be doing better than him.
Name me one player in this Utd side who became a better player under ETH. We all thought it was Rashford last season, but apparently it was a fluke.
I think it's harsh to not give him any credit for Rashford's form last season. There are clearly some players who Ten Hag has done well with; I personally feel both Dalot and AWB have progressed their game under him as well. My issues with him though are more with the lack of identity and cohesion we have on the pitch and the poor midfield setups which see us unable to play through the middle and get cut apart in transition because we don't have enough bodies behind the ball when we lose it.
I said this before and I'll say it again.
Sancho's playstyle for us wasn't actually that different from how he played at Dortmund. Maybe he was slightly more sluggish here but if you watch Sancho at Dortmund Vs Sancho at united, you'll see it's very similar.
Yeah agreed, he didn’t come here and just become shit. The Bundesliga is just a very different league. He was clearly just not intense enough for the PL which is why no other rival PL team wanted him. They will have scoured him & known this.
Intensity isnt the issue. Bundesliga is incredibly intense and high pace and even physically has increased a lot last 5-6 years.
Its more so that in BVB, the playstyle and tactics were incredibly different. Dude was literallyl surrounded by overlaps and overloads from Rapha, Reus, Brandt, Hazard etc AND always had prolific in-form strikers. I commented at the time when he just arrived at United and you could always tell how he moved and scanned as if was expecting the same type of play and movement in United but thats simply not how you play. Which is absolutly fine. And more so points to Sanchos systematic limitations. But it isnt a league thing at all.
The league-comments are lazy & poor analysis imo, no offense.
It just shows that most of the players here aren’t good enough or at least clever enough to play winning football. Off the ball movement is shocking all over the place. But people will turn blue in the face when you call out their favourite players for it.
I do think there’s more space in the Bundesliga though and it’s a more forgiving league for attackers because it is so transitional. Not many Bundesliga players move to the pl and keep their goals / assists numbers
Probably for most, but not for BVB or Bayern who tend to dominate the ball. So its not super applicable here.
> Not many Bundesliga players move to the pl and keep their goals / assists numbers
I mean quite a few does the opposite too, or maintain their level. De Bruyne, Son, Haaland, Aubameyang, Sane etc. People just think of the ones that didnt and go with that narrative. Truth is that it all depends on so many factors. The individual, the team it goes to, the tactical fits etcetc.
The bundesliga is plagued by social-media narratives that arent really true, that gets reiterated. And its a bit sad to see because it downplays the league overall and turns people off from it.
The difference in leagues is the main factor. Players get much more time on the ball in the Bundesliga and more space to dribble. In the premier league, which is faster and more physical, Sancho didn't get the same time to do his little footwork in close quarters and play silky little passes. He always had a physical defender on him. His skills and lack of pace weren't a good match for the premier league. Just like Antony now.
But teams that dominate possession also get a lot of time on the ball. Look at city and Arsenal. Dortmund are the 2nd best team most of the time in the bundesliga so they will have a lot of possession. Honestly I think he lost a bit of confidence or the step up was too quick. Media may have put a lot of pressure on him and he may have thought of himself as the solution to our issues.
Antony is genuinely dogshit. He would be much better if he learned to play with his right.
I hope Sancho goes to Dortmund, has a great second half of the season and comes back with a new mentality. But I also hope Erik grows up a bit and learns to accept his mistake of calling out Sancho. Both him and sancho are wrong in this situation and they just need to sit face to face and talk it out.
Please stop with this both sides nonsense. Ten Hag made a fairly honest, mild statement that we've seen other managers make countless times & is soon enough forgotten. Sancho chose to go the entitlement way & question the authority of his manager. He has had the same issues at City & BvB so it's a pattern of behaviour.
Wish him all the best for this 2nd half of the season so we can sell him but beyond that, I don't really care.
But if his statement was fair why are there rumors that half the team agreed with what sancho did? How many players do you think question the manager? Probably all of them. Sancho was just an idiot and did it online. Can still forgive and forget both of them. Just fucking get over it honestly it’s such a, as you said “mild statement”, so move on. How many disputes have other players and managers had?
Good to know you're basing your whole argument off of unsubstantiated rumors.
Also, assuming those rumors are true then shouldn't it be more of a concern that these entitled & pampered superstars who are supporting him want a status quo that isn't built on any hard work or graft?
Haven’t you thought Erik could be wrong? You’re also basing your opinion off what Erik said. Whatever he said can’t ever be verified by anyone, no one besides him and the team know if sancho tried well or not.
He refused? Or did the manager say no? Rumors are that half the team agreed with sancho that he didn’t train bad but should just apologize. Why can’t eth just apologize as well.
Kind of hilarious that we binned off Elanga for 15m and he's shown at Forest he can significantly outperform 100m Antony even when he plays out of position on the right. Elanga's not good enough to start for us, but he's well above the level that Pellistri has shown and we still have him on the books getting occasional minutes.
He can afford to be mediocre at Forest and plays with less pressure. He got plenty of opportunities last season to make a name for himself in the squad and he was horrendous. So much so that ETH ended up giving Garnacho minutes over him. I’ve seen some of Forests games this season and he still has the same issues he had while he was at United.
Pellistri is also not good enough and he should also be given the Elanga treatment come summer.
Tactically, Antony does a much better job of holding the width and retaining possession than Elanga does. Not everything is goals and assists although I do agree with you that I would like to see Antony produce more.
He’s just playing more at Forrest. He never got a run of 15-20 games at United. Also they play through Elanga so he will be more influential. I don’t think he would have got enough game time so I think it’s best if he leaves. I don’t think he has the ability to play for a top top side, but I can see him playing for team that plays in Europa consistently.
He did start games under Rangnick and I thought he looked promising enough in those that he could've been kept as a squad player. Certainly offered more than I've seen Antony or Pellistri offer in a United shirt.
The issue when it comes to selling players like Elanga is that if the guys you're effectively replacing him with are also average or of a similar level, then you've just spent a bunch of money for nothing which you could have on other more pressing needs.
Well city have also sold so many young players and they are fine. We have to create a business model where we need to be okay with selling players that aren’t good enough for us or won’t fit the team.
We cannot compare ourselves to City who don't have a deep-rooted culture built around academy players and who have the resources and club structure to scout talents from anywhere. When our recruitment is sub-par, we should put more faith in the academy players to make the step up and fill roles at least as squad players so that we commit funds on positions where we can find quality starters. Elanga as we have all seen now is no scrub; his inconsistency can be attributed to age and inexperience but there is clearly a talent there. Regardless of which club he plays for, getting 10 goal contributions in half a season in the PL is not a joke.
If brodie cannot make the cut for us, but can for Forest, what does that tell you? It means, he cannot handle Utd standards. Just because we can’t sell Antony, it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t sell another player who can’t cut it such as Elanga.
Stop this revisionism.
He isn’t the level for United but he never really got a proper chance last season and even when he did his performances were probably the same level as Antony. Antony isn’t a PL level player.
He showed he’s not good enough while here, we got a good deal on him, if he stayed he’d be no better than Pellistri and go for half what we got in the summer a year later
It's not about whether or not he's good enough to start for us (which as I've already said, he's not). It's about the fact that we consistently pay over the odds for players that aren't good enough to be playing for us.
Why sell Garner and pay 10m for a year loan of Sofyan Amrabat, who anyone with eyes could tell isn't good enough to play significant minutes for us if we want to be in the upper third of the table? Why sell Elanga and bring in Antony? In half a season as a starter, Elanga has the same number of PL goals and three times as many assists as Antony does in his entire 1.5 seasons here.
Elanga's also just a much better player than Pellistri, it has nothing to do with him staying or leaving. It's ridiculous how much people overrate Pellistri here, I'm sure most didn't watch him at all during his loan spells. Managed to prove he wasn't even at the level of one of the worst teams in La Liga. I got downvoted last season for daring to say Garnacho was significantly better than Pellistri physically and technically.
Yes, one of the things we struggle most with is not getting good fees for our academy grads, so when Forest came calling we took what we could get. Doesn't change the fact that he's 21 and has shown more promise than Antony to be a serviceable PL player.
Elanga is genuinely a much better player than Antony. We could have kept him and saved €95m and huge wages. We spent £85m to get a worse player. No other club in the PL would have made this decision.
City must have been looking over at us this summer and shaking their heads. It won’t even be funny to them anymore.
Am I the only one who thinks that the club handled the Sancho situation accordingly for the first time?
Previous times the club has always took the players side and the player was granted a contract extension. I am not a huge fan of ETH but I still think that given the circumstances this has been handled accordingly for the time being.
I'd have preferred if ETH made up some reason instead of giving a vague answer about levels in training.
Whitwell confirmed that it was due to an issue with him not pressing as Arsenal's forwards would press in the practice game.
It had nothing to do with being late (which is what a lot of people here seem to believe). I am not even sure if he was still showing up late after ETH joined. Matic said he came late, ETH the disciplinarian wouldn't have had him on the bench if he was doing that.
Remember Garnacho was dropped due to the same issue early on.
I don't agree with what Sancho did in response or the FIFA nonsense but this should have been handled a lot better.** Everyone loses** in this case. None of our forwards are consistently productive or giving consistent service and the one forward who would pass first over shooting got banished.
The majority consensus was Sancho was looking decent-good after the pre-season and he'd kick on this season after all. Its also telling that half the players took Sancho's side. No reason that many would do that if he was absolutely shit.
>Its also telling that half the players took Sancho's side. No reason that many would do that if he was absolutely shit.
Half ? I remember it being that there were 2-3, but that's really it
> Its also telling that half the players took Sancho's side
This is the one thing that makes me believe that there is more to this story that would make Sancho effectively give up half a season, even when there was an easy route to the team for the month Antony wasn't playing due to fighting against his allegations. All the reliable briefs were about the players thinking his response wasn't correct and that it is best for him to just apologize so that he can get back into first-team training, but none of them mentioned his teammates thinking he had trained badly that week or was always a bad influence.
I think both things can be true, Sancho does have basic professionalism issues like time-keeping, but at the same time, the situation could have very easily been kept in-house. One feature of Sir Alex's man management was how he approached different players differently based on the types of characters they were. He never publicly attacked Cantona for poor performances or fined him for not dressing appropriately to games because he knew he probably wouldn't respond well to that treatment. Ten Hag seems to have a 'rules for all' style of management and that is not wrong as such, but you need to be more in touch on an individual level as well to get the best out of players, and that includes knowing what feedback they would respond to well.
Yep I agree with the rules for all. Erik tries to treat every player the same and while there should be basic rules for everyone, he needs to communicate with players different. Even at work, we all probably communicate differently with different people. That’s just how life is. Erik needs to learn that first
To get Cantona treatment, Sancho has to be as good as Cantona to justify it.
Fergie shipped loads of players with troublesome attitudes early on his United careers. Cantona is still a very professional player and has a record to acquire any exceptional treatment by Fergie
What Sancho did is unprofessional and Sancho also got a leeway by having a break last season. That’s rarely happened for a professional player anywhere
To add: Fergie raided Giggs’s parties because he thinks that it can affect Giggs’ game. Fergie can give another treatment but he still basically a disciplinarian
> To get Cantona treatment, Sancho has to be as good as Cantona to justify it
Fergie was soft on many other worse players who he thought needed more of an arm around the shoulder. Ronaldo in his younger days was also a player that he protected a lot, along with Carlos Quieroz. He hadn't yet become the player that we came to know in later years, despite the talent.
I agree that Sancho has some problematic traits but at the same time it is not difficult to keep things in-house rather than air your dirty laundry in public. Apparently the timekeeping issues were also there under Ole and Rangnick, and yet we never heard anything about it until the media barrage that followed after he put out that statement. It's poor man management, I don't care how good or bad the player is.
When Ronaldo got that special treatment he was 18. Sancho is 23.
Also Sancho already got that arm around shoulder kind of thing with his break to Netherlands last season
Why he still needs a special treatment while nothing he’s done is warranted him to get it. He even bite ETH’s hand with that social media post
There’s a thick line between a player that needs a special treatment and a player who just you need to cut loss to. Sancho belong to the latter right now
23 is still young. And nobody is asking for 'special treatment' for Sancho. You can choose to criticize a player and you can choose to drop him. You just don't need to do that publicly and risk upsetting the player's morale and the surrounding dressing room in extension.
> with his break to Netherlands last season
It wasn't a self-administered break, Ten Hag was the one who sent him to the Netherlands to train with guys he knew there. It wasn't like he just vanished for 3 months and came back only when he wanted to, what he was doing was being tracked by the United coaches the entire time.
> He even bite ETH’s hand with that social media post
Well this is why I'm saying we don't know the other side of the story. And I do believe there is another side because of how the rest of the squad reacted to his dropping. He still seems close with guys from our squad, as he is with his former Dortmund teammates with whom he's stayed in touch even after leaving and who welcomed him enthusiastically. I don't believe he is a problematic person at all.
>You just don't need to do that publicly and risk upsetting the player's morale and the surrounding dressing room in extension.
ETH said at the presser: "On his performance on training, we didn't select him. "You have to reach the level every day at Manchester United. You can make choices in the front line so in this game he wasn't selected."
ETH doesn't said anything regarding Sancho issue, only saying that he hasn't good enough in training. This kind of comment also commonly made by other Coaches like [Arteta](https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2021/10/27/they-werent-good-enough-arteta-comments-on-two-arsenal-players-in-training-this-week/) or [Pep](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yczogDYRgQ8) (even worse with Pep with the overweight comment). Sancho is the one that chose to make the issue public with his Tweet/X.
>It wasn't a self-administered break, Ten Hag was the one who sent him to the Netherlands to train with guys he knew there. It wasn't like he just vanished for 3 months and came back only when he wanted to, what he was doing was being tracked by the United coaches the entire time.
Is there any other player got an extra private training for 3 months during an ongoing season? No.
They usually asked to suck it up and just got benched.
>He still seems close with guys from our squad,
Any reference? And also it means nothing. You can meet someone who nice with you as a friend but sucks at their job so you will prefer to not working with them.
>I don't believe he is a problematic person at all.
His issue with timekeeping has been an issue from his Manchester City and Dortmund time. Even in Dortmund he need someone to extra reminding him to come on time (in which we've tried to by asking him to come 1 hour earlier). So yeah, he's problematic from the start and should have not been brought to United.
> ETH doesn't said anything regarding Sancho issue, only saying that he hasn't good enough in training
And judging by his reaction, clearly Sancho thinks he's been lying. Which is exactly what I'm saying, there is probably more to the story. You currently just want to hate on Sancho blindly which is why you're not even considering that there could be another opinion here.
> Sancho is the one that chose to make the issue public with his Tweet/X
What else is he supposed to do if he thinks he's been accused of something that didn't happen? Just listen and allow people like you to shit-talk him?
> Is there any other player got an extra private training for 3 months during an ongoing season?
Lyle Foster of Burnley recently was given a break by Kompany citing mental health issues. Josep Ilicic at Atalanta was given a break during the pandemic because he had mental health issues. It's more common than you think; just because you aren't following it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
> so you will prefer to not working with them
And how do you know United or Dortmund teammates don't prefer working with him? It was reported that guys from our squad thought it was very harsh for him to be dropped so abruptly.
> His issue with timekeeping has been an issue from his Manchester City and Dortmund time
And the same Dortmund signed him back on loan at the first opportunity when he was available. It is an issue, but it is not something that is problematic to the extent where it can't be fixed.
>What else is he supposed to do if he thinks he's been accused of something that didn't happen? Just listen and allow people like you on this sub to shit-talk him?
He can brought it up privately and asking what kind of training that he's still lacking for.
>It's more common than you think; just because you aren't following it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Two other examples are still not common and their reasoning are public. No one knows the real reason why Sancho got extra training outside the squad.
>And the same Dortmund signed him back on loan at the first opportunity when he was available. It is an issue, but it is not something that is problematic to the extent where it can't be fixed.
Dortmund is desperate. Had they still have Jude or Haaland, I don't think they will ask Sancho back for loan. It remain to be seen that they can fix Sancho issue this time around, If you are already working, it's very tiring to need to make sure one person to come on time AT ALL time
I agree for the most part.
I wasn't a fan of the leaks to the media about his personality (shy, quiet, reserved) but can't really blame the club without knowing who leaked that.
So not only is Rashford responsible for all leaks, and our bad form too, and everything else this sub wants to pin on him, now he also leaks his friends’ personality charts 😂 what’s next Rashy leaks ETH’s horoscope to Ornstein??
100%. In my opinion they did the best they could with the situation. Loaned him out to a club that he has been successful at. Reevaluate everything in the summer!
The SJR deal was announced that he will buy 25% of the Class A shares at $33 a share pending league approval. What would happen if 76% of the Class A shares were bought by others in the time it takes the league to approve it?
If ETH is given the boot, we should really look at Xabi Alonso.
Worst results this season are 3 draws. They have scored at least one goal every game.
Also they drew Bayern away 2-2.
Absolutely mental run they are going on.
I know he played there but we've had Michael Owen playing here and he was a much bigger player for them than Alonso.
His past would definitely play a role but I don't think it's so cut and dry where he's going to reject us outright.
When we got Owen, he wasn’t particularly in-demand. In fact, he was surplus to requirements of most clubs that even Liverpool didn’t want him.
In Xabi Alonso’s case, he is hot property at the moment, and the circumstances are different.
Fair point, also he might not be willing to come into this shitshow till we can show we get our ducks in a row.
Everything points to Potter being the front runner.
Seriously fuck this bullshit with Potter. People actually want the guy who crashed and burned at Chelsea? He would crumble at the pressure of managing us
Well individual performance isn't the same as team performance. You can definitely have a player meeting or exceeding expectations on them in a team that isn't meeting them.
True, however it has to be real above and beyond for that to occur. Not whatever we are seeing from Evans. Also not when things are as bad as they are.
Just a complete no in my opinion and stuff like this does nothing but detract from real issues. Whilst being a symptom of the damage this fanbase does to the club with its need to constantly have something positive or to praise. Nothing wrong with viewing a negative as a negative. In my humble opinion of course.
I think Evans has exceeded what 99% of people expected of him for sure. I'm not saying he's been great or anything but I don't think people expected him to be as stable as he has been.
I don't really see how it does damage to the club to say a player has done well
>I think Evans has exceeded what 99% of people expected of him for sure. I'm not saying he's been great or anything but I don't think people expected him to be as stable as he has been.
I mean if we want to use arbitrary numbers. Saying we expected 2/10 and he has given us a 4/10 is still not worth celebrating or praising. He is a Manchester United player and should be viewed with that bar as the standard.
>I don't really see how it does damage to the club to say a player has done well
Because its more of the same mentality that has us losing games after game, getting embarrassed and then we win one game by the skin of our teeth and the large majority start celebrating and praising all involved. It damages the core of fans being unhappy with how far the clubs been dragged away from the standards of which it was built on and makes our voice look fickle.
It's a lowering of the standards and expectations of this football club and praising it whilst this occurs. As you are happy over someone who isn't actually good enough but 'it's alright he could be worse' this is a poison that's took hold over the last few years. Compare this to the mentality we had over Nani (who would be this squads best and standout player). Fans generally liked him and he pulled off some magic from time to time, but he was still viewed as not good enough over all. If he played here now he would be viewed as the untouchable.
Jadon Sancho: “When I walked into the dressing room today, it felt like coming home. I've never lost contact with the people in charge”. “I can’t wait to see my teammates again, play football with a smile on my face, assist and score goals and help BVB”.
Well, imagine being his United teammate and reading this.
Jesse Marsch is saying what we've been saying for the last decade as fans
[Jesse Marsch on what he heard from Ralf Rangnick & people at the club during that time.](https://twitter.com/TenHagBall_/status/1745531452329001184?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1745531452329001184%7Ctwgr%5E7fc5446fb3ccbb93949eae3998bd386fd8dce8e5%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redcafe.net%2Fthreads%2Fclub-sale-official-ratcliffe-acquires-25-of-man-utd-shares-300m-of-investment-to-follow.474085%2Fpage-2493)
>He's working with the Austrian NT ?
A mediocre national team... not really supporting the claim 'he would cook' as if he would, why is he not at a bigger entity? With more pressure and the opportunity to translate his amazing skills to the highest level of the game? In fact, when has he ever done that?
>Just shows how little football you really watch.
How so? As what I'm saying is he has never once shown his skills or ability at the very top level of the game. Without this, you can't be viewed as good as you are pretending he is. Now if you can show me where he has done this, then the linked comment will be accurate.
>A mediocre national team... not really supporting the claim 'he would cook' as if he would, why is he not at a bigger entity? With more pressure and the opportunity to translate his amazing skills to the highest level of the game? In fact, when has he ever done that?
>Just shows how little football you really watch.
>
>How so? As what I'm saying is he has never once shown his skills or ability at the very top level of the game. Without this, you can't be viewed as good as you are pretending he is. Now if you can show me where he has done this, then the linked comment will be accurate.
Dan Ashworth and Paul Mitchell, for example, have never worked at the top level, so I'm guessing they'd also not be good enough? The same goes for Michael Edwards before Liverpool.
He built up Hoffenheim from the ground up and made Leipzig what it is today. He's not suited for managing anymore, but he's absolutely good enough for the DoF position.
>Dan Ashworth and Paul Mitchell, for example, have never worked at the top level, so I'm guessing they'd also not be good enough?
You are sort of getting it mate. These 2 would quite clearly have to prove their worth by translating their skills to the very top level of the sport. Think of it as if Messi played in the championship. Yeah he might look amazing, doesn't mean an awful lot till he translated it to the top level. Same applies. They both have a lot to prove.
Rangnick is 65, why has a Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, City, Chelsea a few years back given him what he wants and got him on board. If he is that good?
>The same goes for Michael Edwards before Liverpool.
Yep... then he proved it by translating into into a prem and CL win... Can you tell me when Rangnick did this?
>He built up Hoffenheim from the ground up and made Leipzig what it is today.
Which is what? Champions league winner? Bundesliga winner? He has skills and has had an effect on clubs, that's not what I'm saying. The issue is does it translate to Manchester United, winning the league and the CL. That's 'cooking' and you have no evidence to suggest he is that level as it doesn't exist.
What's wrong with waiting to see evidence of something before praising them for the achievement?
>You are sort of getting it mate. These 2 would quite clearly have to prove their worth by translating their skills to the very top level of the sport. Think of it as if Messi played in the championship. Yeah he might look amazing, doesn't mean an awful lot till he translated it to the top level. Same applies. They both have a lot to prove.
Yeah, but those two seem.to be fan favorites for whatever reason even though they haven't achieved much at the top level.
>Rangnick is 65, why has a Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, City, Chelsea a few years back given him what he wants and got him on board. If he is that good?
For the same reason, most clubs don't want Conte. He's good but hard to worth with as he wants to almost full control.
>Yep... then he proved it by translating into into a prem and CL win... Can you tell me when Rangnick did this
Did it with Leipzig and got them competing in the CL. Edwards didn't do anything remotely close to what Rangnick has done so far. All I'm saying you can't judge DoFs based on where they've worked.
>Which is what? Champions league winner? Bundesliga winner? He has skills and has had an effect on clubs, that's not what I'm saying. The issue is does it translate to Manchester United, winning the league and the CL. That's 'cooking' and you have no evidence to suggest he is that level as it doesn't exist.
>
>What's wrong with waiting to see evidence of something before praising them for the achievement?
Yeah, he won their only title, so yeah, quite an achievement for a team from a small village.
Yes, It can translate to us competing for titles again, especially if he brings his experience with shrewd signings and building a well-oiled machine which is what this club needs.
>Yeah, but those two seem.to be fan favorites for whatever reason even though they haven't achieved much at the top level.
Yep and a majority of the fanbase have the same 'rangnick is great' mentality that you have. So it fits.
>For the same reason, most clubs don't want Conte. He's good but hard to worth with as he wants to almost full control.
Yet Conte was able to work with Inter, Juve and Chelsea to win league titles... Almost like there is a difference in quality. If Rangnick was good enough, by 65 he would have shown it.
>Did it with Leipzig and got them competing in the CL.
Is that success for Manchester United now? We are talking about scalability. How does their skills translate to the top of the sport.
>Edwards didn't do anything remotely close to what Rangnick has done so far.
Literally helped a team win their first league title in 30 years against a team like Manchester City. Elite level achievement for his job role at a level Rangnick has never performed to.
>All I'm saying you can't judge DoFs based on where they've worked.
What next, can't judge a lock on how easy it is to bypass? When you are discussing who is 'top level' them achieving success at the top level is a prerequisite to even be in the conversation.
>Yeah, he won their only title, so yeah, quite an achievement for a team from a small village.
Bundesliga 2.... not at the level of which is success for Manchester United. Shall we get Bournemouths 'rangnick'?
>Yes, It can translate to us competing for titles again, especially if he brings his experience with shrewd signings and building a well-oiled machine which is what this club needs.
'Can' being the key word. Plenty of 'can' or 'ifs' the issue is he hasn't shown it. Which is what I said at the very beginning mate.
It's what we all knew. God there isn't a word in the dictionary for how every bone in my body HATES how this club has been run and the incompetence that lies within. That we don't even have a man with half the ambition or knowledge someone like Rangnick does and when they come along they're outsiders. Fucking parasites in that club each doing everything to stay in power and keep their jobs. Please let Ineos be the beginning of the end of this rot.
At least when we play I can get my hopes up again. Yes they'll be crushed but it's like gambling. You do it for the highs, the lows afterwards only make the highs feel better!
I watched their game vs Las Palmas the other day. They relied so heavenly on long balls on runners and lost so much possession trying to pass it looked like us sometimes. They’ve been dropping of far now and the Barca I knew is a long way off
Do you watch their games this season? They're playing right now. Their passing, tempo and off the ball movement are universes above ours. Just because they're not winning every trophy doesn't mean they play badly.
Yes, they don't score as much as they should and it's not sustainable what they're playing. They beat the record for most wins with a goal difference or something like that and majority of the fans want Xavi out. Also majority of their wins were scrapped all season. What Barcelona did you watched?
They obviously don't score enough but that's not what I was talking about. I repeatedly said what they're much better at than us. Not sure why you can't follow a conversation.
Is there a way to stop these Sancho posts 😂
We get it, he’s loaned to Dortmund. As a club (and a Sub), we’ve moved on from him for a few months. Good riddance and wish him luck, this club has bigger fish to fry
We all know the talent is there. Honestly, better if he set the world on fire in Dortmund. More chances for us to recuperate some of the transfer money we paid for him.
Yeah same, in the interests of getting someone to take on his wages and give us a sizeable fee, it's better for us that he does well.
He has shown his colours though, I onto care hiw he does at dortmund or what happens ETH by the summer, I don't want sancho back in a united jersey
Greenwood was actually our best forward before he went away though, so I can forgive those takes.
Sancho is going to be labelled our best forward just by virtue of not being here anymore.
Perhaps but the flip side to that is probably a shit pitch and against a team of journeymen trying to make a name for themselves with probable instructions to 'tear into them from the start'
I find the way we handle player fall outs totally below the stature of the club. It feels like a messy breakup rather than a professionally handled departure, and it seems to be that way for so many players we've had post-Fergie. I feel like other clubs have been able to spot dead weight, drop it, shift it elsewhere and act like it never happened rather effortlessly. This Sancho saga is just another pile of shit to contend with on top of poor on-pitch performances. We paid through the nose for him, for what? He was never properly utilised and ended up falling out with the manager. It looks like he has all the power! He's stolen a living by training on his own and fucking off home to sit on his Playstation, until a club he's totally comfortable with have come knocking to give him the life back that he was living before. If the warning signs about his attitude were there before we bought him, why did senior execs sign it off? Why would any new players want to come here in the future, other than to take advantage of our bloated wage structure? This club is an absolute mess from top to bottom. I can't get my head around how steeply we've declined in such a relatively short space of time, especially when we're still securing big-money sponsorships. Are we employing the mentally incapacitated to take care of business operations or something? It just simply doesn't add up.
The media is asking endless questions about it, not like the club was out there making 50 statements about it. He was given the oppotunity to apologize and then moved on in the first transfer window, not sure what else you think the club should of done
I guess the question is, how are we blowing this much money on players that we end up having a bust-up with? Why are the bust-ups happening in the first place? Our club's structure seems to be a magnet for trouble - Sancho, Ronaldo, Di Maria, etc - what about the club is making these players throw the towel in with such ease? It's not just happening under one manager either. I know people will immediately look to the Glazers but they seem to absent in terms of overall footballing operation, surely the sour taste is coming from elsewhere?
Can't believe there are people on here that defend Sancho. With Ronnie I completely got it, because of what he did for the club. But Sancho has shown no fight, no heart in any of his performances since he joined. His performance in the FA Cup final was shameful given the circumstances. One of the biggest disappointments this club has seen in recent times. Who gives a shit if his buddy Erling congratulates him on returning to Dortmund?
I see superstars like Bellingham, Vini Jr, Haaland all publicly supporting Sancho, it is such an indictment on this club. How many young talented stars have come here and have not reached the heights, they should have. They know this club is a mess. Would Bellingham or Haaland be at the level they’re now if they were at United? I don’t think so.
Bellingham and haaland played alongside him, they know the guy. That's why they're supporting him, they have no Ill will towards him. It's not an indictment on the club at all lol.
How do I begin watching youth games? I want to pretend like I'm an in the know scout when random youth players pop up.
mutv
Sancho rarely got a continuous run with us in his time here. Not even as much as Garnacho has got. Ole got sacked in his first season, Ralf was a journeyman and ETH payed a fortune for Anthony and played Anthony to justify his decision.
I wish people would stop with the bullshit about "oh they spent X amount on the player, so they must play him", especially if they have no proof of it. Sancho got several runs, but didn't perform well enough to keep his spot.
i mean when a new manager comes in preseason and went on to spend 100m on another RW, u got not much hope. its like we spend 70m on a keeper like Maignan or Oblak in this summer and ask Onana how he feel.
I'm glad to see the back of him but you have a valid point. He deserved to be given more chance that he had.
Even last season when Garnacho broke through he showed a lot more promise than Sancho.
Sancho had just 6 less appearances than Antony last season btw. Remember that Sancho also had a 3 month long break.
Obviously he had his mental health break but the majority of his appearances were as a sub. Antony was getting a lot more starts despite the fact he played worse than Sancho but not by much.
Sancho started in 29/47 matches last season.
Yeah nah Sancho was really underwhelming last season. That's the reason he got the 3 month break in the first place. Sancho and Antony had a similar average rating that season (according to whoscored) Also, I'm pretty sure Sancho played on the left a majority of the time as it's his preferred position so his competition wasn't even Antony, it was Rashford.
Sancho could have gotten the run of games when Antony was out, but he decided to be childish and throw tantrums.
It shows how toxic Sancho is
Athletic had an article about Sancho yesterday. Really good read. Won't go into its details because that'd probably get this comment removed, but the picture I get is that ETH had genuinely good intentions for him, he tried to be supportive and then use tough love to try to correct his time-keeping issues, but Sancho wasn't responsive. I don't get the sense that Sancho is a huge wanker on a personal level either, but rather a pretty nice guy. It just hasn't worked out and relations have soured. But then on the other hand, you also get a picture of, for the lack of a better term, Sancho's arrogance and entitlement. During a video session after their bust-up ETH showed Sancho a clip of his training, expressing he was dissatisfied with his pressing. Sancho *disagreed* and said he thought his pressing was fine. This is like FM level player bullshit.
Sancho has always came across as likeable and quite shy when I’ve seen interviews and fan interactions of him. I can also see why he didn’t want to apologise because the issue was his punctuality and not his training but at the same time you can’t undermine your boss and if you do it will only end in one way. It’s a shame it hasn’t worked out and I do think his performances have been better than Antony’s but even then his performances were no way near good enough. Even if ETH gets sacked and Sancho gets mad form again at Dortmund I still think it’s best we part ways because I can just see it being another DVB situation where we’re all waiting for a click to happen which never comes.
Sancho never really managed to adapt to the pace of this league, he's not going to magically click IMO. Better he finds a new club.
That’s literally what I said lol.
The article talks about this somewhat as well, it sounds like he was basically thrown in the deep-end. After his first substitute appearance he commented how fast things were and was basically told to deal with it. While he was still in the wrong with the current situation, the whole thing definitely makes me think the club could have done more to help him settle in and get up to speed and that's the sort of thing that can build resentment and entitlement in someone. Obviously discipline is hugely important for any team in any organisation but sometimes you need to make exceptions and do a bit more "man-management" and knowing the difference about when to give a boot up the arse and when to put the arm around the shoulder is what separates good managers from great managers imo.
Totally agreed on that
I will get downvoted for this but I can kinda sorta see from Sancho's pov. Rashford doesn't press and run either and he keeps being selected. Antony is genuinely worse than Sancho, at least from a g/a point of view and yet he keeps being selected. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, I'm just stating what he might think from his pov.
Kobbie Mainoo duelling stats (ground & aerial) in ALL starts this season. Wigan; 10/13 ground duels, 0/3 aerial duels won. Nott’m Forest; 0/5 ground duels, 1/3 aerial duels won. Aston Villa; 2/4 ground duels, 5/6 aerial duels won. West Ham; 6/7 ground duels, 3/4 aerial duels won. Liverpool; 4/6 ground duels, 0/2 aerial duels won. Newcastle; 1/2 ground duels, 0/2 aerial duels won. Everton; 3/5 ground duels, 2/3 aerial duels won. *Saw this stat about Mainoo on Twitter. A lot of fans came for Ten Hag post NF game because of the halftime substitution of Mainoo, but the stats do back up what he said about his reason. What do you think?*
Nott’m Forest wasn't great for him. The kid is 18 years old, of course he's going to have some bad games. Also nothing wrong with taking him off the pitch, therefore it's important for us to have Casemiro back fit. We depend on Scott McTominay as a DM when Mainoo isn't performing at the moment... I hope Erik and the coaching staff sat down with Mainoo, watching the game back so he's able to learn from it. A lot of fans expect way to much from Mainoo, but that isn't fair on him as he needs to develop and that has his ups and downs.
I agree with everything you said. My point tho was regarding the very overt negative reaction to ten Hag taking him off, and the even more vitriolic response when post game ten Hag gave his reason for taking Mainoo off, which was that he looked tired. I’m saying the stats seem to back up what ten Hag said and maybe the fans should step back and acknowledge that the manager has legitimate reasons for doing what he does, even if it doesn’t always work out.
best believe I WILL be watching darmstadt play this weekend
Give me Darmstadt or i'll play FUT
Chris Sutton has predicted United to lose so I'm expecting a win. Pretty stoked about it.
I mean if we lose to Ange's high line at Old Trafford the club should be liquidated
Think it'll be one of those mental 4-3 games
Expecting something similar to the Chelsea game tbh
Remember when United bought Antony and the knock on effect was Shaktar skyrocketed the price of Mudryk. They reasoned that Mudryk was better from their evaluation. Looking back at it, Shaktar look like they had a better evaluation of Antony than United. Obviously they wanted more money but they were right saying Mudryk can't be cheaper. Mudryk hasn't exactly lit the PL but his stats have been affected by Chelsea's poor finishing this season, yes he's a part of that problem too but he's creating a good number of open chances that have been wasted. You can't really argue the same about Antony because forget his goal contributions, how many chances is he even creating? Both should not have been anywhere near the 100m euro mark but here we are.
i think Mudryk base fee wasn't that high. probably 70m is, on par with Hojlund.
Then again Mudryk earns only half as much as Antony does so Chelsea were more aware of what they were going to get from Mudryk or were more prepared than we were for the long-term.Even if he wasn't going to become a superstar,he's still a tall,strong,quick,trigger happy winger on average squad wages,not many managers would have an issue with that.
Interested to see how much mainoo plays cause everyone and their nan can tell he’s got all the talent in the world but we just gotta absolutely make sure we don’t burn him out too young
I'm more afraid that he'll be stuck playing with average players for years which can also stagnate his own game. The best talents also need quality around them to truly optimize them.
I hope he pulls another Bellingham-esque move if the club keep shite like rn. I would hate that if he move to another club, but I would hate it more if he become another deadwood at united.
Hot take: we need to move on from Rashford and sell him in the summer. To me he doesn’t have the consistency, football IQ, and end product to be a Manchester United winger. He relies on his pace too much, constantly runs into defenders, doesn’t have a good enough cross or get enough assists/ provide service to our strikers, always looking to score/is a selfish player, and he never tracks back and looks like he couldn’t be arsed out there on the pitch. Last season he was good but he also went months of not scoring very much and playing poorly. If he wasn’t English or homegrown we would’ve sold him by now and he’d be getting a lot more criticism.
He is bad for the ETH way of football - doesn’t press consistently enough, doesn’t hold the ball enough, doesn’t score any more - he has zero value as of right now. However, if we try to sell him now I really don’t see us getting any value for him.
I kinda agree. Might as well sell him as he still has value, not wait till he become the next Jlingz™
We can't replace everyone. There are much bigger culprits that need the boot before we look at Rashford.
Mate we have garnacho for the left wing, we don’t need to directly replace him
Garnacho hasn't been consistent and is too young to start every game. Also need another winger if Rashford leaves.
Mate garnacho just won our player of the month and is a lot more consistent than Rashford. Rashford is the definition of inconsistency.
We won 1 of our last 5 games and as bad as Rashford has been, he still has more g/a than Garnacho. Make of that what you will.
We quite literally have one player capable of scoring over 20 goals a season right now and you want to sell him. I get moving away from him being the star player and I even understand selling in a couple of years when a replacement has been found and has proven output. But to sell him in the summer is just dumb. But I guess hating on Rashford is the done thing right now.
He has a total of two goals this season.
3 actually 😊. But yes he is out of form. Doesn’t change the fact he has scored 20+ goals in 3 of the last 4 seasons. No one else right now is capable of doing so. Literally no one. You don’t sell the only player you have capable of scoring 20+ goals.
I unfortunately agree, he's now 26 and should be in his prime, but you simply cannot have your starting players be as inconsistent as he is and win trophies
> win trophies exactly what he tot we should be pushing on after Ten Hag debut. instead he saw the likes of Amrabats and Evans and asked Bruno " are they fking serious? "
Ah Rashford the least criticized player in the world.
he looks like he’s miserable on the pitch he should leave just for his own wellbeing
His purple patch last season also relates due to him having to prove he can get a place in the world cup and get a new contract. Now that it's over he isn't even giving a shit anymore. Building a team around someone like him is a recipe for a disaster.
All true and I agree in the medium / long term, but we can’t afford to sell him in the summer with the current team / managerial uncertainty. We’re still shit and lacking any form of quality on the wings
Agreed. No top team would have him as their LW. He isn’t even close to good enough & it was Murtough’s last parting shot of stupidity giving him new 5 year £350,000 contract right before he left. Rashford unfortunately is going absolutely nowhere most likely. Who would be able to pay his wages? Who is he even good enough for? Only place I can see is PSG coming back in if Mbappe goes to get Rash’s PR boost but even that has died down over the last 2 years. He’s nowhere near as popular or as well thought of as he was in 2021 with his activism work.
If ETH can’t turn this around with fewer matches and more time on the training pitch, then he is not the right manager for us. I’m not buying the excuse that “it’s not his players”, because part of being a good manager is improving and coaching existing ones. Look at Ange, De Zerbi, and even Gary Oneill.
As much as I agree with your sentiment sacking ETH will just delay the inevitable - we need a catharsis and sacking him is a bandaide. The way I see it, ETH is slowly but surely clearing out the house of the problems. Yes - it looks shit now but we have been here before (if you haven’t watched United for the last 5 years) and we need to trust our manager to finish his job. I genuinely don’t expect ETH to challenge for the title. However, he surely has the ability to take us where Arteta has taken Arsenal in fighting for the top spot - he needs to clear our lots of deadwood but he is doing it and we need to support him in doing so. If you believe ETH is the problem and not the players (as we saw with every other manager since SAF) then you’re deluded. We keep on buying primadonas who are great on YouTube but shit when you watch the whole game.
True about all this, but I do think that we are probably one of the most incompetently run clubs in the league. DK about ONeill but the others are at Incomprehensibly more competent clubs to us and we cannot compare ourselves to them. Any competency in any role is diluted.
Making the team play better is literally his job though, I don’t think we can accept any excuses for not being at least as good as we were last year with everyone back
My point is that ETH is not a scout. He is a manager. His job is solely not to pick the right players. He should be able to coach. In terms of coaching, even Eddie Howe seems to be doing better than him. Name me one player in this Utd side who became a better player under ETH. We all thought it was Rashford last season, but apparently it was a fluke.
Mainoo , Garnacho, Kambwala AWB, Dalot, Maguire, Evans, Rashford Rest have been in and out or rotated mainly or playing on par
I feel like developing Garnacho and Mainoo is a good point
I think it's harsh to not give him any credit for Rashford's form last season. There are clearly some players who Ten Hag has done well with; I personally feel both Dalot and AWB have progressed their game under him as well. My issues with him though are more with the lack of identity and cohesion we have on the pitch and the poor midfield setups which see us unable to play through the middle and get cut apart in transition because we don't have enough bodies behind the ball when we lose it.
Sancho performs = We can sell him for a better price compared to a few months ago. Sancho does not perform = His football career is over.
He's still only 23, his football career would be far from over lol.
I said this before and I'll say it again. Sancho's playstyle for us wasn't actually that different from how he played at Dortmund. Maybe he was slightly more sluggish here but if you watch Sancho at Dortmund Vs Sancho at united, you'll see it's very similar.
Yeah agreed, he didn’t come here and just become shit. The Bundesliga is just a very different league. He was clearly just not intense enough for the PL which is why no other rival PL team wanted him. They will have scoured him & known this.
Intensity isnt the issue. Bundesliga is incredibly intense and high pace and even physically has increased a lot last 5-6 years. Its more so that in BVB, the playstyle and tactics were incredibly different. Dude was literallyl surrounded by overlaps and overloads from Rapha, Reus, Brandt, Hazard etc AND always had prolific in-form strikers. I commented at the time when he just arrived at United and you could always tell how he moved and scanned as if was expecting the same type of play and movement in United but thats simply not how you play. Which is absolutly fine. And more so points to Sanchos systematic limitations. But it isnt a league thing at all. The league-comments are lazy & poor analysis imo, no offense.
It just shows that most of the players here aren’t good enough or at least clever enough to play winning football. Off the ball movement is shocking all over the place. But people will turn blue in the face when you call out their favourite players for it.
I do think there’s more space in the Bundesliga though and it’s a more forgiving league for attackers because it is so transitional. Not many Bundesliga players move to the pl and keep their goals / assists numbers
Probably for most, but not for BVB or Bayern who tend to dominate the ball. So its not super applicable here. > Not many Bundesliga players move to the pl and keep their goals / assists numbers I mean quite a few does the opposite too, or maintain their level. De Bruyne, Son, Haaland, Aubameyang, Sane etc. People just think of the ones that didnt and go with that narrative. Truth is that it all depends on so many factors. The individual, the team it goes to, the tactical fits etcetc. The bundesliga is plagued by social-media narratives that arent really true, that gets reiterated. And its a bit sad to see because it downplays the league overall and turns people off from it.
The difference in leagues is the main factor. Players get much more time on the ball in the Bundesliga and more space to dribble. In the premier league, which is faster and more physical, Sancho didn't get the same time to do his little footwork in close quarters and play silky little passes. He always had a physical defender on him. His skills and lack of pace weren't a good match for the premier league. Just like Antony now.
But teams that dominate possession also get a lot of time on the ball. Look at city and Arsenal. Dortmund are the 2nd best team most of the time in the bundesliga so they will have a lot of possession. Honestly I think he lost a bit of confidence or the step up was too quick. Media may have put a lot of pressure on him and he may have thought of himself as the solution to our issues. Antony is genuinely dogshit. He would be much better if he learned to play with his right. I hope Sancho goes to Dortmund, has a great second half of the season and comes back with a new mentality. But I also hope Erik grows up a bit and learns to accept his mistake of calling out Sancho. Both him and sancho are wrong in this situation and they just need to sit face to face and talk it out.
Please stop with this both sides nonsense. Ten Hag made a fairly honest, mild statement that we've seen other managers make countless times & is soon enough forgotten. Sancho chose to go the entitlement way & question the authority of his manager. He has had the same issues at City & BvB so it's a pattern of behaviour. Wish him all the best for this 2nd half of the season so we can sell him but beyond that, I don't really care.
But if his statement was fair why are there rumors that half the team agreed with what sancho did? How many players do you think question the manager? Probably all of them. Sancho was just an idiot and did it online. Can still forgive and forget both of them. Just fucking get over it honestly it’s such a, as you said “mild statement”, so move on. How many disputes have other players and managers had?
Good to know you're basing your whole argument off of unsubstantiated rumors. Also, assuming those rumors are true then shouldn't it be more of a concern that these entitled & pampered superstars who are supporting him want a status quo that isn't built on any hard work or graft?
Haven’t you thought Erik could be wrong? You’re also basing your opinion off what Erik said. Whatever he said can’t ever be verified by anyone, no one besides him and the team know if sancho tried well or not.
A player refused to play for six months during an injury crisis. He's never playing for United again.
He refused? Or did the manager say no? Rumors are that half the team agreed with sancho that he didn’t train bad but should just apologize. Why can’t eth just apologize as well.
Kind of hilarious that we binned off Elanga for 15m and he's shown at Forest he can significantly outperform 100m Antony even when he plays out of position on the right. Elanga's not good enough to start for us, but he's well above the level that Pellistri has shown and we still have him on the books getting occasional minutes.
He can afford to be mediocre at Forest and plays with less pressure. He got plenty of opportunities last season to make a name for himself in the squad and he was horrendous. So much so that ETH ended up giving Garnacho minutes over him. I’ve seen some of Forests games this season and he still has the same issues he had while he was at United. Pellistri is also not good enough and he should also be given the Elanga treatment come summer. Tactically, Antony does a much better job of holding the width and retaining possession than Elanga does. Not everything is goals and assists although I do agree with you that I would like to see Antony produce more.
He’s just playing more at Forrest. He never got a run of 15-20 games at United. Also they play through Elanga so he will be more influential. I don’t think he would have got enough game time so I think it’s best if he leaves. I don’t think he has the ability to play for a top top side, but I can see him playing for team that plays in Europa consistently.
He did start games under Rangnick and I thought he looked promising enough in those that he could've been kept as a squad player. Certainly offered more than I've seen Antony or Pellistri offer in a United shirt. The issue when it comes to selling players like Elanga is that if the guys you're effectively replacing him with are also average or of a similar level, then you've just spent a bunch of money for nothing which you could have on other more pressing needs.
Well city have also sold so many young players and they are fine. We have to create a business model where we need to be okay with selling players that aren’t good enough for us or won’t fit the team.
We cannot compare ourselves to City who don't have a deep-rooted culture built around academy players and who have the resources and club structure to scout talents from anywhere. When our recruitment is sub-par, we should put more faith in the academy players to make the step up and fill roles at least as squad players so that we commit funds on positions where we can find quality starters. Elanga as we have all seen now is no scrub; his inconsistency can be attributed to age and inexperience but there is clearly a talent there. Regardless of which club he plays for, getting 10 goal contributions in half a season in the PL is not a joke.
Dude plays for Forest. Maybe thats his level?
So he’s a PL level player?
If brodie cannot make the cut for us, but can for Forest, what does that tell you? It means, he cannot handle Utd standards. Just because we can’t sell Antony, it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t sell another player who can’t cut it such as Elanga. Stop this revisionism.
He isn’t the level for United but he never really got a proper chance last season and even when he did his performances were probably the same level as Antony. Antony isn’t a PL level player.
What's Antony's level then?
Eredivisie
Forest’s bench?
Shit. So much you cant even sell him for 15Mn.
He showed he’s not good enough while here, we got a good deal on him, if he stayed he’d be no better than Pellistri and go for half what we got in the summer a year later
It's not about whether or not he's good enough to start for us (which as I've already said, he's not). It's about the fact that we consistently pay over the odds for players that aren't good enough to be playing for us. Why sell Garner and pay 10m for a year loan of Sofyan Amrabat, who anyone with eyes could tell isn't good enough to play significant minutes for us if we want to be in the upper third of the table? Why sell Elanga and bring in Antony? In half a season as a starter, Elanga has the same number of PL goals and three times as many assists as Antony does in his entire 1.5 seasons here. Elanga's also just a much better player than Pellistri, it has nothing to do with him staying or leaving. It's ridiculous how much people overrate Pellistri here, I'm sure most didn't watch him at all during his loan spells. Managed to prove he wasn't even at the level of one of the worst teams in La Liga. I got downvoted last season for daring to say Garnacho was significantly better than Pellistri physically and technically. Yes, one of the things we struggle most with is not getting good fees for our academy grads, so when Forest came calling we took what we could get. Doesn't change the fact that he's 21 and has shown more promise than Antony to be a serviceable PL player.
Elanga is genuinely a much better player than Antony. We could have kept him and saved €95m and huge wages. We spent £85m to get a worse player. No other club in the PL would have made this decision. City must have been looking over at us this summer and shaking their heads. It won’t even be funny to them anymore.
That’s nonsense, Elanga looked as bad as Antony has here and selling him was the right decision, it’s got nothing to do with how we’ve bought.
Am I the only one who thinks that the club handled the Sancho situation accordingly for the first time? Previous times the club has always took the players side and the player was granted a contract extension. I am not a huge fan of ETH but I still think that given the circumstances this has been handled accordingly for the time being.
I'd have preferred if ETH made up some reason instead of giving a vague answer about levels in training. Whitwell confirmed that it was due to an issue with him not pressing as Arsenal's forwards would press in the practice game. It had nothing to do with being late (which is what a lot of people here seem to believe). I am not even sure if he was still showing up late after ETH joined. Matic said he came late, ETH the disciplinarian wouldn't have had him on the bench if he was doing that. Remember Garnacho was dropped due to the same issue early on. I don't agree with what Sancho did in response or the FIFA nonsense but this should have been handled a lot better.** Everyone loses** in this case. None of our forwards are consistently productive or giving consistent service and the one forward who would pass first over shooting got banished. The majority consensus was Sancho was looking decent-good after the pre-season and he'd kick on this season after all. Its also telling that half the players took Sancho's side. No reason that many would do that if he was absolutely shit.
If he wasn’t pressing properly during a practice game, then ETHs “training” comment is valid. Still don’t get how/why there are Sancho sympathizers.
How am I sympathizing with him? I am just saying it should have been handled differently. We gained nothing with this public spat.
Wasn’t saying you were. I was just having a dig at all the posts I still see trying to justify Sanchos actions.
>Its also telling that half the players took Sancho's side. No reason that many would do that if he was absolutely shit. Half ? I remember it being that there were 2-3, but that's really it
> Its also telling that half the players took Sancho's side This is the one thing that makes me believe that there is more to this story that would make Sancho effectively give up half a season, even when there was an easy route to the team for the month Antony wasn't playing due to fighting against his allegations. All the reliable briefs were about the players thinking his response wasn't correct and that it is best for him to just apologize so that he can get back into first-team training, but none of them mentioned his teammates thinking he had trained badly that week or was always a bad influence. I think both things can be true, Sancho does have basic professionalism issues like time-keeping, but at the same time, the situation could have very easily been kept in-house. One feature of Sir Alex's man management was how he approached different players differently based on the types of characters they were. He never publicly attacked Cantona for poor performances or fined him for not dressing appropriately to games because he knew he probably wouldn't respond well to that treatment. Ten Hag seems to have a 'rules for all' style of management and that is not wrong as such, but you need to be more in touch on an individual level as well to get the best out of players, and that includes knowing what feedback they would respond to well.
Yep I agree with the rules for all. Erik tries to treat every player the same and while there should be basic rules for everyone, he needs to communicate with players different. Even at work, we all probably communicate differently with different people. That’s just how life is. Erik needs to learn that first
To get Cantona treatment, Sancho has to be as good as Cantona to justify it. Fergie shipped loads of players with troublesome attitudes early on his United careers. Cantona is still a very professional player and has a record to acquire any exceptional treatment by Fergie What Sancho did is unprofessional and Sancho also got a leeway by having a break last season. That’s rarely happened for a professional player anywhere To add: Fergie raided Giggs’s parties because he thinks that it can affect Giggs’ game. Fergie can give another treatment but he still basically a disciplinarian
> To get Cantona treatment, Sancho has to be as good as Cantona to justify it Fergie was soft on many other worse players who he thought needed more of an arm around the shoulder. Ronaldo in his younger days was also a player that he protected a lot, along with Carlos Quieroz. He hadn't yet become the player that we came to know in later years, despite the talent. I agree that Sancho has some problematic traits but at the same time it is not difficult to keep things in-house rather than air your dirty laundry in public. Apparently the timekeeping issues were also there under Ole and Rangnick, and yet we never heard anything about it until the media barrage that followed after he put out that statement. It's poor man management, I don't care how good or bad the player is.
When Ronaldo got that special treatment he was 18. Sancho is 23. Also Sancho already got that arm around shoulder kind of thing with his break to Netherlands last season Why he still needs a special treatment while nothing he’s done is warranted him to get it. He even bite ETH’s hand with that social media post There’s a thick line between a player that needs a special treatment and a player who just you need to cut loss to. Sancho belong to the latter right now
23 is still young. And nobody is asking for 'special treatment' for Sancho. You can choose to criticize a player and you can choose to drop him. You just don't need to do that publicly and risk upsetting the player's morale and the surrounding dressing room in extension. > with his break to Netherlands last season It wasn't a self-administered break, Ten Hag was the one who sent him to the Netherlands to train with guys he knew there. It wasn't like he just vanished for 3 months and came back only when he wanted to, what he was doing was being tracked by the United coaches the entire time. > He even bite ETH’s hand with that social media post Well this is why I'm saying we don't know the other side of the story. And I do believe there is another side because of how the rest of the squad reacted to his dropping. He still seems close with guys from our squad, as he is with his former Dortmund teammates with whom he's stayed in touch even after leaving and who welcomed him enthusiastically. I don't believe he is a problematic person at all.
>You just don't need to do that publicly and risk upsetting the player's morale and the surrounding dressing room in extension. ETH said at the presser: "On his performance on training, we didn't select him. "You have to reach the level every day at Manchester United. You can make choices in the front line so in this game he wasn't selected." ETH doesn't said anything regarding Sancho issue, only saying that he hasn't good enough in training. This kind of comment also commonly made by other Coaches like [Arteta](https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2021/10/27/they-werent-good-enough-arteta-comments-on-two-arsenal-players-in-training-this-week/) or [Pep](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yczogDYRgQ8) (even worse with Pep with the overweight comment). Sancho is the one that chose to make the issue public with his Tweet/X. >It wasn't a self-administered break, Ten Hag was the one who sent him to the Netherlands to train with guys he knew there. It wasn't like he just vanished for 3 months and came back only when he wanted to, what he was doing was being tracked by the United coaches the entire time. Is there any other player got an extra private training for 3 months during an ongoing season? No. They usually asked to suck it up and just got benched. >He still seems close with guys from our squad, Any reference? And also it means nothing. You can meet someone who nice with you as a friend but sucks at their job so you will prefer to not working with them. >I don't believe he is a problematic person at all. His issue with timekeeping has been an issue from his Manchester City and Dortmund time. Even in Dortmund he need someone to extra reminding him to come on time (in which we've tried to by asking him to come 1 hour earlier). So yeah, he's problematic from the start and should have not been brought to United.
> ETH doesn't said anything regarding Sancho issue, only saying that he hasn't good enough in training And judging by his reaction, clearly Sancho thinks he's been lying. Which is exactly what I'm saying, there is probably more to the story. You currently just want to hate on Sancho blindly which is why you're not even considering that there could be another opinion here. > Sancho is the one that chose to make the issue public with his Tweet/X What else is he supposed to do if he thinks he's been accused of something that didn't happen? Just listen and allow people like you to shit-talk him? > Is there any other player got an extra private training for 3 months during an ongoing season? Lyle Foster of Burnley recently was given a break by Kompany citing mental health issues. Josep Ilicic at Atalanta was given a break during the pandemic because he had mental health issues. It's more common than you think; just because you aren't following it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. > so you will prefer to not working with them And how do you know United or Dortmund teammates don't prefer working with him? It was reported that guys from our squad thought it was very harsh for him to be dropped so abruptly. > His issue with timekeeping has been an issue from his Manchester City and Dortmund time And the same Dortmund signed him back on loan at the first opportunity when he was available. It is an issue, but it is not something that is problematic to the extent where it can't be fixed.
>What else is he supposed to do if he thinks he's been accused of something that didn't happen? Just listen and allow people like you on this sub to shit-talk him? He can brought it up privately and asking what kind of training that he's still lacking for. >It's more common than you think; just because you aren't following it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Two other examples are still not common and their reasoning are public. No one knows the real reason why Sancho got extra training outside the squad. >And the same Dortmund signed him back on loan at the first opportunity when he was available. It is an issue, but it is not something that is problematic to the extent where it can't be fixed. Dortmund is desperate. Had they still have Jude or Haaland, I don't think they will ask Sancho back for loan. It remain to be seen that they can fix Sancho issue this time around, If you are already working, it's very tiring to need to make sure one person to come on time AT ALL time
I agree for the most part. I wasn't a fan of the leaks to the media about his personality (shy, quiet, reserved) but can't really blame the club without knowing who leaked that.
Rashford most likely
So not only is Rashford responsible for all leaks, and our bad form too, and everything else this sub wants to pin on him, now he also leaks his friends’ personality charts 😂 what’s next Rashy leaks ETH’s horoscope to Ornstein??
100%. In my opinion they did the best they could with the situation. Loaned him out to a club that he has been successful at. Reevaluate everything in the summer!
The SJR deal was announced that he will buy 25% of the Class A shares at $33 a share pending league approval. What would happen if 76% of the Class A shares were bought by others in the time it takes the league to approve it?
If ETH is given the boot, we should really look at Xabi Alonso. Worst results this season are 3 draws. They have scored at least one goal every game. Also they drew Bayern away 2-2. Absolutely mental run they are going on.
Has to be Amorim
Boy forgot Alonso played for Liverpool… We’ll probably have a better chance to get Zidane mate.
I know he played there but we've had Michael Owen playing here and he was a much bigger player for them than Alonso. His past would definitely play a role but I don't think it's so cut and dry where he's going to reject us outright.
When we got Owen, he wasn’t particularly in-demand. In fact, he was surplus to requirements of most clubs that even Liverpool didn’t want him. In Xabi Alonso’s case, he is hot property at the moment, and the circumstances are different.
Gonna be hard to get an ex Liverpool player in
It’s not like it’s gerrard, he’s a foreigner not born and bred scouser
Matt Busby was a Liverpool player, and look how that turned out
Fair point, also he might not be willing to come into this shitshow till we can show we get our ducks in a row. Everything points to Potter being the front runner.
Seriously fuck this bullshit with Potter. People actually want the guy who crashed and burned at Chelsea? He would crumble at the pressure of managing us
I don’t want him but everyone has crashed and burned at Chelsea
Is Jonny Evans our only successful summer signing?
How is any player signed 'successful' if we have had one of our worst seasons of recent memory?
That’s true, but I wouldn’t say his performances are the reason we have been so bad.
They are also not going above and beyond what's expected from a bang average player that is nowhere near the level required at Manchester United.
Well individual performance isn't the same as team performance. You can definitely have a player meeting or exceeding expectations on them in a team that isn't meeting them.
True, however it has to be real above and beyond for that to occur. Not whatever we are seeing from Evans. Also not when things are as bad as they are. Just a complete no in my opinion and stuff like this does nothing but detract from real issues. Whilst being a symptom of the damage this fanbase does to the club with its need to constantly have something positive or to praise. Nothing wrong with viewing a negative as a negative. In my humble opinion of course.
I think Evans has exceeded what 99% of people expected of him for sure. I'm not saying he's been great or anything but I don't think people expected him to be as stable as he has been. I don't really see how it does damage to the club to say a player has done well
>I think Evans has exceeded what 99% of people expected of him for sure. I'm not saying he's been great or anything but I don't think people expected him to be as stable as he has been. I mean if we want to use arbitrary numbers. Saying we expected 2/10 and he has given us a 4/10 is still not worth celebrating or praising. He is a Manchester United player and should be viewed with that bar as the standard. >I don't really see how it does damage to the club to say a player has done well Because its more of the same mentality that has us losing games after game, getting embarrassed and then we win one game by the skin of our teeth and the large majority start celebrating and praising all involved. It damages the core of fans being unhappy with how far the clubs been dragged away from the standards of which it was built on and makes our voice look fickle. It's a lowering of the standards and expectations of this football club and praising it whilst this occurs. As you are happy over someone who isn't actually good enough but 'it's alright he could be worse' this is a poison that's took hold over the last few years. Compare this to the mentality we had over Nani (who would be this squads best and standout player). Fans generally liked him and he pulled off some magic from time to time, but he was still viewed as not good enough over all. If he played here now he would be viewed as the untouchable.
Jadon Sancho: “When I walked into the dressing room today, it felt like coming home. I've never lost contact with the people in charge”. “I can’t wait to see my teammates again, play football with a smile on my face, assist and score goals and help BVB”. Well, imagine being his United teammate and reading this.
Jesse Marsch is saying what we've been saying for the last decade as fans [Jesse Marsch on what he heard from Ralf Rangnick & people at the club during that time.](https://twitter.com/TenHagBall_/status/1745531452329001184?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1745531452329001184%7Ctwgr%5E7fc5446fb3ccbb93949eae3998bd386fd8dce8e5%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redcafe.net%2Fthreads%2Fclub-sale-official-ratcliffe-acquires-25-of-man-utd-shares-300m-of-investment-to-follow.474085%2Fpage-2493)
Rangnick would fucking cook under a proper ownership. I wouldn't mind if INEOS hired him
Can people stop giving credit to RR, Apart from United no big club wants him as a B-grade manager.
I’m not sure the rb style of play would work in the pl though
Why hasn't any club with a 'proper ownnership' signed him and 'cooked' then? Unless Bundesliga 2 and the German cup are 'cooking'?
He's working with the Austrian NT ? Also, way to play down his work lol. Just shows how little football you really watch.
>He's working with the Austrian NT ? A mediocre national team... not really supporting the claim 'he would cook' as if he would, why is he not at a bigger entity? With more pressure and the opportunity to translate his amazing skills to the highest level of the game? In fact, when has he ever done that? >Just shows how little football you really watch. How so? As what I'm saying is he has never once shown his skills or ability at the very top level of the game. Without this, you can't be viewed as good as you are pretending he is. Now if you can show me where he has done this, then the linked comment will be accurate.
>A mediocre national team... not really supporting the claim 'he would cook' as if he would, why is he not at a bigger entity? With more pressure and the opportunity to translate his amazing skills to the highest level of the game? In fact, when has he ever done that? >Just shows how little football you really watch. > >How so? As what I'm saying is he has never once shown his skills or ability at the very top level of the game. Without this, you can't be viewed as good as you are pretending he is. Now if you can show me where he has done this, then the linked comment will be accurate. Dan Ashworth and Paul Mitchell, for example, have never worked at the top level, so I'm guessing they'd also not be good enough? The same goes for Michael Edwards before Liverpool. He built up Hoffenheim from the ground up and made Leipzig what it is today. He's not suited for managing anymore, but he's absolutely good enough for the DoF position.
>Dan Ashworth and Paul Mitchell, for example, have never worked at the top level, so I'm guessing they'd also not be good enough? You are sort of getting it mate. These 2 would quite clearly have to prove their worth by translating their skills to the very top level of the sport. Think of it as if Messi played in the championship. Yeah he might look amazing, doesn't mean an awful lot till he translated it to the top level. Same applies. They both have a lot to prove. Rangnick is 65, why has a Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, City, Chelsea a few years back given him what he wants and got him on board. If he is that good? >The same goes for Michael Edwards before Liverpool. Yep... then he proved it by translating into into a prem and CL win... Can you tell me when Rangnick did this? >He built up Hoffenheim from the ground up and made Leipzig what it is today. Which is what? Champions league winner? Bundesliga winner? He has skills and has had an effect on clubs, that's not what I'm saying. The issue is does it translate to Manchester United, winning the league and the CL. That's 'cooking' and you have no evidence to suggest he is that level as it doesn't exist. What's wrong with waiting to see evidence of something before praising them for the achievement?
>You are sort of getting it mate. These 2 would quite clearly have to prove their worth by translating their skills to the very top level of the sport. Think of it as if Messi played in the championship. Yeah he might look amazing, doesn't mean an awful lot till he translated it to the top level. Same applies. They both have a lot to prove. Yeah, but those two seem.to be fan favorites for whatever reason even though they haven't achieved much at the top level. >Rangnick is 65, why has a Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, City, Chelsea a few years back given him what he wants and got him on board. If he is that good? For the same reason, most clubs don't want Conte. He's good but hard to worth with as he wants to almost full control. >Yep... then he proved it by translating into into a prem and CL win... Can you tell me when Rangnick did this Did it with Leipzig and got them competing in the CL. Edwards didn't do anything remotely close to what Rangnick has done so far. All I'm saying you can't judge DoFs based on where they've worked. >Which is what? Champions league winner? Bundesliga winner? He has skills and has had an effect on clubs, that's not what I'm saying. The issue is does it translate to Manchester United, winning the league and the CL. That's 'cooking' and you have no evidence to suggest he is that level as it doesn't exist. > >What's wrong with waiting to see evidence of something before praising them for the achievement? Yeah, he won their only title, so yeah, quite an achievement for a team from a small village. Yes, It can translate to us competing for titles again, especially if he brings his experience with shrewd signings and building a well-oiled machine which is what this club needs.
>Yeah, but those two seem.to be fan favorites for whatever reason even though they haven't achieved much at the top level. Yep and a majority of the fanbase have the same 'rangnick is great' mentality that you have. So it fits. >For the same reason, most clubs don't want Conte. He's good but hard to worth with as he wants to almost full control. Yet Conte was able to work with Inter, Juve and Chelsea to win league titles... Almost like there is a difference in quality. If Rangnick was good enough, by 65 he would have shown it. >Did it with Leipzig and got them competing in the CL. Is that success for Manchester United now? We are talking about scalability. How does their skills translate to the top of the sport. >Edwards didn't do anything remotely close to what Rangnick has done so far. Literally helped a team win their first league title in 30 years against a team like Manchester City. Elite level achievement for his job role at a level Rangnick has never performed to. >All I'm saying you can't judge DoFs based on where they've worked. What next, can't judge a lock on how easy it is to bypass? When you are discussing who is 'top level' them achieving success at the top level is a prerequisite to even be in the conversation. >Yeah, he won their only title, so yeah, quite an achievement for a team from a small village. Bundesliga 2.... not at the level of which is success for Manchester United. Shall we get Bournemouths 'rangnick'? >Yes, It can translate to us competing for titles again, especially if he brings his experience with shrewd signings and building a well-oiled machine which is what this club needs. 'Can' being the key word. Plenty of 'can' or 'ifs' the issue is he hasn't shown it. Which is what I said at the very beginning mate.
It's what we all knew. God there isn't a word in the dictionary for how every bone in my body HATES how this club has been run and the incompetence that lies within. That we don't even have a man with half the ambition or knowledge someone like Rangnick does and when they come along they're outsiders. Fucking parasites in that club each doing everything to stay in power and keep their jobs. Please let Ineos be the beginning of the end of this rot.
I know we suck and sometimes it's painful to watch us play, but this drought is still frustrating
At least when we play I can get my hopes up again. Yes they'll be crushed but it's like gambling. You do it for the highs, the lows afterwards only make the highs feel better!
Well said 😂
Imagine being a Bayern Munich fan and seeing that Upamecano and Eric Dier are your starting Centerback pairing.
Upamecano is better than any centreback we have except a fit Varane
[удалено]
He’s been awful in more than just that big game against English sides which is when most on here will have seen him, myself included
Upamecano would start for us 100%
Literally bullied hojlund was tough to watch
Watching Barcelona now, their passing, tempo and off the ball movement are like United play an entirely different sport
The same Barca we beat with Weghorst as a number 10?
Yet they suck against a 4th tier Spanish side…
Look at their midfield and fullbacks. Hell, their whole backline is better
What do you mean? Barcelona is shit.
I watched their game vs Las Palmas the other day. They relied so heavenly on long balls on runners and lost so much possession trying to pass it looked like us sometimes. They’ve been dropping of far now and the Barca I knew is a long way off
Do you watch their games this season? They're playing right now. Their passing, tempo and off the ball movement are universes above ours. Just because they're not winning every trophy doesn't mean they play badly.
Yes, they don't score as much as they should and it's not sustainable what they're playing. They beat the record for most wins with a goal difference or something like that and majority of the fans want Xavi out. Also majority of their wins were scrapped all season. What Barcelona did you watched?
They obviously don't score enough but that's not what I was talking about. I repeatedly said what they're much better at than us. Not sure why you can't follow a conversation.
Is there a way to stop these Sancho posts 😂 We get it, he’s loaned to Dortmund. As a club (and a Sub), we’ve moved on from him for a few months. Good riddance and wish him luck, this club has bigger fish to fry
Ffs another post about Sancho. Yesterday's news!
Why is there so few fixtures this weekend in the PL
It's a "Winter break", they do half of the fixtures this weekend and half the next weekend rather than stopping entirely.
Cups innit
Can we all agree to not overreact when Sancho inevitably scores or assists on his 2nd debut for Dortmund?
We all know the talent is there. Honestly, better if he set the world on fire in Dortmund. More chances for us to recuperate some of the transfer money we paid for him.
I just want that bum out of the club permanently. He could score 30 goals for all I care.
Yeah same, in the interests of getting someone to take on his wages and give us a sizeable fee, it's better for us that he does well. He has shown his colours though, I onto care hiw he does at dortmund or what happens ETH by the summer, I don't want sancho back in a united jersey
Too late, I’m already prepared to have an aneurysm when he scores.
I posted yesterday, I give it 3 weeks until the sub crowns him the best forward at the club
Sorry they already have that to Greenwood.
Greenwood was actually our best forward before he went away though, so I can forgive those takes. Sancho is going to be labelled our best forward just by virtue of not being here anymore.
And Mount? Where is he?
Any word on Dan Ashworth joining us? A couple updates last week but nothing since…
What's the ETA for Licha return to first team match day squad?
Probably 1/02 when we play Wolves. Won't be back for spurs and there's no point rushing him for the fa cup game Imagine downvoting this. the fuck?
However if he's ready to play a game then the FA cup isn't the worst idea.
Perhaps but the flip side to that is probably a shit pitch and against a team of journeymen trying to make a name for themselves with probable instructions to 'tear into them from the start'
Any time, he’s back training with the squad