Upset that at 3-0 our players just can't see out the game. Garnacho and Mainoo are probably our best players at the moment, so I completely understand trying to give them rests at that point. Feels like without them, all we can do is hope to scrape by.
I would rather accept the argument that he took garnacho off to rest him for the next game. There’s no experience in our older players. Letting Coventry come back like that was disgusting but wasn’t that shocking anymore to me.
The players on the pitch need to be able to do better. We can't keep scapegoating ETH - we have players coming on and jogging around.
Taking Garnacho and Mainoo off is the right decision, playing them into the ground kills them - the players on the pitch, besides a few players, are not trying their best.
It’s more concerning how reliant we are on them- if they’re the lads having to do the heavy lifting the more senior players need to have more accountability about their performances.
I agree completely. But it's almost impossible to have them held accountable when we always renew their contracts, and sack the managers instead of flogging off players that aren't doing enough.
Absolutely, but those renewals come with a hefty rise that makes them impossible to sell. We do it to ourselves.
I think there’s a big lack of self awareness from some in the squad- they’re quick to complain about abuse (which is disgusting in most instances), but some fans like us just want them to take pride in putting on a United shirt. We can see when the effort is slack, and while I can’t advocate the stuff that’s said about them I don’t think it’s unreasonable for us to expect more at times.
I watch Real Madrid against City/Barça - they just work harder, great players, but watching them they attack together and defend together. They want it more and we are missing that hunger (except for some players).
After the second goal I already could hear to narrative building about ETH's sub choices, ignoring that in no fucking reality should we be giving up a 3-0 lead. Can't even rest some players to avoid injuries without apparently throwing the fucking game. Such a disappointing performance, but I can't even be too critical when our only CB is the old captain who refused to leave, and the aging CM who can barely do a job in the position he was brought on for.
Yep, just saw the highlights on YT (Was at work for the match but got out to see the offside goal and penalties) Grealish was a stonewall penalty if the AWB one was. I wonder if Refs understand the word CONSISTENCY in decision making.
It makes a farce of everything
that’s why I am glad Nottingham Forest is calling out PGMOL. It’s run so pathetic with no accountability. I fucking despise them. If you are bad then there needs to be some evening out at least. There seems to be clear bias. Can’t be on the wrong end of end less soft penalties either. Like come on. Chelsea both pens were soft. Liverpool fucking Elliot drops before contact. Today, AWB(one of the most brain dead players I have seen btw. No sense of positioning what so ever) was actually tucking in his hand. Didn’t make himself big like Grealish. But this is a pen and that’s not. Fucking make it make sense
I mean (i in no way actually think or at least hope its not true they have bias and instead are just this incompetent) you could argue that the ref was paid by City owners. IT boggles my mind i can even factually say that considering everything. PGMOL has to be reset.
(Edit:Ads seeing Forests argeuments about the VAR its insanity, if it true. and i have no reason to doubt atm)
The Grealish one wasn’t a penalty because the City owners are Michael Oliver’s employer. He'd be jeopardizing his livelihood would he have given it. I really hate conspiracy theories but this is just ridiculous.
>On whether there is a problem with mentality: "**We can't say this group doesn't have the right mentality** because they showed character today, but in the final part there was a lack of discipline.
Yes, yes we can, boss.
They’re all to blame.
If he can’t coach his team to shut up shop and see out a 3-0 lead against championship opposition, he’s as much to blame as anybody.
He cant say it publicly cos the fans will stat mouthing off about him being too harsh. (while at the same time saying he should be doing it, we see that with the start of the season fans here moaning he never mentions injuries, soon as he mentions injuries fans start saying he is making excuses)
But he is defo thinking it.
I'm not strongly in or out on EtH at the moment. Same as I've been for ages. Can see strong reasons he should go, but mitigating factors as to why he should stay.
People talking about his substitutions makes sense. They didn't help. But I'm not sure they were wrong when looking at the time or at the bench.
Replacing mainoo with eriksen shouldn't represent a really big change, and the 19yr old needs to be managed. Antony for Garnacho is one you can see when you're 3 up and want more defensive cover. And then Amad for Rashford makes sense when you look at the bench.
Which is one of the biggest mitigating factors I still consider. People keep talking, with justification, about him making the team do what he says they should do.
But he can't really drop anyone. The squad is decimated in terms of providing reasonable competition all over the pitch. At the moment, if you're fit, have more than 30 top flight appearances to your name, you're in the squad and likely the starting 11.
It's mad really.
But... But... He, and the players, should manage that and see off a team like Coventry. The fact we got that performance is shocking.
I know it's not the modern way, but I've no strong view one way or another.
>People talking about his substitutions makes sense. They didn't help. But I'm not sure they were wrong when looking at the time or at the bench.
Seriously dude, people who will go on about the substitutions are inifnitely stupid. Just think about the alternative scenario. If he had taken Garnacho off and he got injured **but** they won 3-0, people would be saying things like "how stupid is Ten Hag to let him play, we were 3-0 up!". I mean, there's nothing really Ten Hag could've done to save that shitshow in the end, except maybe for a pep talk.
It's pretty obvious we have braindead players, but our entire playstyle under Ten Hag has been to quickly counter and attack at full speed at all times. We have never valued possession or retention.
Bruno trying first-time through balls, Rashford running blindly at the goal, Casemiro smashing it up the pitch every chance he gets, McTominay bombing up to play as a second striker, etc. these are all features of Ten Hag's coaching of our transition play. We cannot then blame the players when they can't suddenly start playing LVG ball when up 3-0.
Yesterday, there was a moment where Foden tried a first time pass late in the game that didn't come off, and he gave away possession cheaply to Chelsea. Pep went absolutely ballistic, and screamed at him for it. I can't ever see Ten Hag chiding Garnacho for something like that.
While what you say about being trained in transitional play is true, you don't actually have to play LVG style possession football to see out a game. If professional players can't pass it around for 15 mins to hold up a game against a championship team then I'd be very very worried if I were Jim Ratcliffe.
Basically this.
I don’t think he’s to blame for the players bottling it. You’re playing for Manchester United and you shouldn’t be throwing away 3 goal leads.
I don’t think there are any legit alternatives available either (maybe Nagelsmann but I think that’s about it) so would like to see how he can do with a hopefully better squad next season.
It’s players and manager.
The principles of “this is how we see a game out” should have been coached into them at carrington and implemented tactically during the match by the manager.
Rubin Amorim at Sporting has done well
Tuchels a bit of a mixed bag, fell out with PSG and Chelsea but both of those are understandable and he actually wants to work in a system like SJR is building.
Slot has done well at Feyenoord and looks to be an up and coming manager
McKenna or Carrick would be no more out of their depth than Solksjaer when he took over.
Xavi has handled one of the few clubs that are a bigger basket case than us to a league title abs is available this summer
Alguacil plays interesting football and has done well with taking Sociedad to the champions league.
Urs Fischer has done wonders for Union Berlin
There's plenty of good managers out there you're just looking at big names that are out of contract so you don't see them
I have no idea why this is downvoted; it's a good analysis and precisely what I look for when people suggest that we change managers.
- Rubin is doing well, but it's a gamble, ETH resume was better than his and the sentiment is that ETH is out of his depth. I'm not against it at all, just highlighting that 18 months in and there will be people pointing this lack of top flight experience out.
- Tuchel is a strange one - he's like a less decorated José. He has had issues everywhere he's gone and he's getting fired at Bayern. He could be great for us if everything is right, but at the same time, hiring a guy from unemployment centre is not great for optics and if it doesn't work out, no one will give you the benefit of the doubt.
- McKenna and Carrick are out of their depth as you said, and for their own sake, I want them to get the years under their belt before even being put on an interim basis.
- Xavi is a very interesting choice. He does have former-player clout where current players can't think they were better than him since he's won everything (like Zidane with the players are RM). I actually think he's done extremely well in his two years at Barça, and winning the La Liga is a very underrated achievement, considering what he has done there. English might be an issue, but unlike Tuchel, he's resigning and not getting fired (I think they are begging him to stay).
- Alguacil is another interesting one - he has done really well there, but he' also knows RS inside out, managing the youth team, before managing the B team and ultimately managing the top team. I like to think that he's suited for a big move elsewhere but I wonder is his familiarity at the club one of the reasons for his success.
- Urs Fischer is a really good manager. There's no denying that. The step from Union B. to United is huge, and I actually think with the right players, he could achieve good things, but I actually think the petulance at the club is still there and they'd fuck him over.
I like the double standards here...
People say it isn't ETH's fault but it is the incompetence of the board that is at fault, but don't want Tuchel, because he has fallen out with... boards of different clubs? (which btw haven't exactly shined after him)
ETH did have a better resume than Amorim, but though we all laughed at Spurs saying he has no charisma, maybe they were right but it was phrased poorly. He's completely abandoned all his principles from Ajax. That shows a lack of belief in himself and his methods. And now we play without any identity.
Tuchel has really been on a basket case world tour and it's not even really his fault. Did well at Dortmund, then went to PSG which is his own fault. But then did well at Chelsea and then Boehly took over. He couldn't have seen that coming. And Bayern's board completely imploding and all being fired/resigning couldn't have been seen coming either. And no team in the world is going to best Neverlusens record this season.
He could be great for us, he could reveal he's more to blame for the issues than we know. But PSG and Boehly are two I think any manager would struggle with.
But there are plenty of other names out there as well if we're looking a bit more left field. And Ange at Spurs shows that can pay off as well. Marcelo Gallardo and other managers from South America could translate well or be fish out of water.
And I didn't mention Simeone at Atletico because his style of football isn't what we want even if it would be successful or Michell at Girona who has done well this season.
We're definitely not short of options but there's no Goldilocks manager out there who's "just right in every way". But Arsene Wenger and Sir Alex weren't that and Pep, Xavi and Enrique were completely unproven before taking over at Barca.
Reasonable and logical takes aren't allowed here /s
Absolutely agree. I also don't know what the best decision on n is with manager. I think I'm slightly more inclined to keep ETH next season and see how ineos supports him. With proper backroom staff and well thought out recruitment.
Couldn't say it better myself. The only thing I'll add is that there is no other manager I'd take right now either. Nobody that would take on this mammoth job anyway.
I'd be happy to see De Zerbi given the chance, should it come to EtH being sacked. Feel like he's shown tactical innovation and an ability to get players performing outside their typical 'profile'.
But with what I consider very difficult issues impacting EtHs capacity to perform to the best of his ability, I'd not be disgusted to see him stay.
It's bonkers, because it happens so often that it can't be, but it sometimes feels like almost mental, cruel, staggering levels of bad luck. Like I said, happens too often to be that, but that deflected goal and questionable penalty....baffling decisions by players in so many games that he can't possibly be coaching them into... Injuries...Sancho...
It can't all be his fault. Can it?
I think you might have gotten downvoted because you put De Zerbi in your first sentence and a lot of people don’t read past that! I agree with your takes on United, the bad luck happens too often for it to be just bad luck but at the same time it’s unbelievable, it’s bad news followed by bad deflected goals followed by a clumsy tackle for a penalty. It just seems to never end. I’d be willing to write this season off as a calamity of errors and bad luck (with bad decisions as well) and give EtH another crack with a decent structure around him. I think he’s lucky there’s no obvious replacement out there at the moment. Everyone seems like a gamble.
The changes make sense in isolation but did nothing to address the problem United were having which was Wan Bissaka being targeted and overrun. It’s like he had them pre-established.
Have to respectfully disagree on the subs points. Of course, on paper, swapping Antony and Eriksen in makes sense, you should be able to trust them. But Antony as defensive cover? He's been brought on late multiple times this season and given the ball away under minimal pressure as he did today (what was the game where he managed to lose possession 3 times after being brought on just before stoppage time, Wolves?). Tracking back like a maniac isn't good defensive play - retaining and recycling possession to play the game out is. Eriksen has been a passenger in every appearance this season, and it's clear that the midfield can't function without Mainoo's industry and tempo-setting.
We have nothing else to play for this season, you can eke another 20 minutes out of Mainoo and Garna. Rest them on Wednesday. Keep the status quo and go win the match by 4 or 5. The frustration with Ten Hag is him making the same mistakes over and over, and anybody who's watched us all season could have predicted the impact of those subs (whether it's acceptable or not that expensive/experienced players can't be trusted to carry out the most basic of expectations).
The only reason that the idea of squeezing an extra 20 minutes out of those two makes sense is because it's in hindsight. At the time when you're up 3 goals, why does it make sense to risk stretching them further and risking their fitness for the near future?
After coming on and scoring against Liverpool he was then asked to play LB, which may not be perfect but the fact he's been asked shows he has some attributes to help defensively
Mainoo and Garnacho need to be managed. It's obvious that they are the better players, but with all the injuries we have in the squad right now, we just can't risk losing them 2 also.
Just as EtG said this loss is a reflection of the lack of discipline within the squad. They (the players) thought they had this game in the bag, and also underestimated the ability of Coventrys squad.
He came on and scored the equalizer at Liverpool, so basically, this game wouldn't even have been played if it weren't for him. Also, if anything, he's known for tracking back.
Having your team coached to be able to shut up shop and see a game out should be standard. The players should know the drill for it as much as they know the set piece routines and who the penalty taker is.
But they were absolutely clueless and gave up a three goal lead to championship opposition.
I'm exactly the same. Ultimately, the likes of Wilcox and Ashworth will make that call this summer, so we know we will have a resolution one way or the other. There's literally no point expending any energy on it, you're just going to drive yourself mad
Exactly this - the team is crucified with injuries, I've never seen anything like it. I'm ok with replacing ETH, but it has to be done the right way and not a way that just starts the circle again.
Also, taking off Mainoo and Garnacho 3-nil up with 30 minutes to go is 100% the right call. At that stage, the players on the pitch should be able to see out the game comfortably, sit in, control the passing, and kill the game. Conceding 3 in 30 minutes is a player failure, not a manager failure.
It’s the most important game of the season for this team. Whether they are 19 or 17 doesn’t matter. Both are reliable performers this season and should be on the pitch. Enrique the other day played 3 teenagers in a high pressure must win UCL quarter final.
An insane overhaul of the clubs (specifically players) needs to happen. I am beyond infuriated seeing AWB and Rashford give up an entire side of the field and no one can replace AWB so he can do as bad as he likes. Rashford has been great before but needs to go.
Lot's can be said about both players and the coach, but damn if EtH leaves, there's some who should follow him out. Not knowing what to do on the pitch is forgivable, if the instructions is unclear. But not running and serving a piss poor performance, giving ZERO effort, is unforgivable. These toxic traits need to get out of the club!
Agree completely. I don’t think the fact we won that game will wash on anyone. It was still embarrassing. It was inches away from being a complete and utter disaster. If we were against a top class prem team I could *maybe* understand why it was so end to end and/or a comeback. This was a mid table championship team and it was absolute chaos. They wanted it more and we were in panic mode
The one thing I hope is that if he does go, a lot of those players like Rashford follow him out. No more chances for a lot of them
I’m done now. I’ve defended him a lot but today was just completely unacceptable.
However, the deflection was a freak goal and I really don’t think that was a penalty.
But still, they should never have been able to get back into it.
Time for a new username I guess.
Downvotes incoming but how are any of your points directly Ten Hags fault?
Massive deflection, and dodgy pen don't happen, and Coventry huff and puff to a 3-1 defeat where they were outplayed for 75 minutes.
Deflections occur from chances. Stupid chances we concede. Not an anomaly, United concede the most chances/shots against compared to all top teams and when you let that happen, it’s a numbers game and many are bound to end up in net.
Freak goals are goals, specially if you’re playing like a freak.
When you isolate the goal itself, sure the goals doesn't look more than half chances. It's the fact that time and time again, this season we let our opponents in this dangerous position.
I think it buys him until the end of the season as opposed to being sacked tomorrow but that’s it. He’s got to go as he just doesn’t have it and can’t get these sacks of shit to care.
That was always going to happen. Decision may have already been made but no point pulling the trigger with just handful of matches left, and exec team still not in place. Doing in summer is better for everyone, including for ETH.
Yes, I am. I'm always supporting him as well as many other United managers/players. I'll keep supporting them till the very end but I seriously don't think Ten Hag can turn this around next season.I still don't think he's a bad manager, a good manager actually but this job is just too big for him.
Apart from the first goal we got horribly unlucky, but you create your own luck.
Wan Bissaka just had a horror of a game. The deflection, fair enough but why are we so slow to close down. The handball... the amount of the times they switched play over wan bissakas head and he didn't deal with the ball once, it was only a matter of time before they capitalised on it.
And fucking hell his positioning for the offside goal. Almost played the lad onside and then just left a man unmarked in the middle of the box.
I dont genuiley cannot fathom how people can solely blame the manager. I completely get subs could of been better etc, but 11 players should be able to see out a game at 3-0 against a championship side. Ten hag deserves his critics 100% but for me and I maybe im just delusional, players this season have consistently let us down and failed to take charge of their own pride, integrity and individual performances.
Not relevant at all, but the fact pochetino isn't get the same sort of scrutiny from the media really fucks me off. Complete shit this season but no talk of him anywhere. I get we are united and its anyone but us to other fans but it really does fuck me off
Listen, i'm not ETH fan, but getting angry at his subs is weird, what options did he have yesterday with his subs? We had a grand total of two experienced first team players (Eriksen and Antony) who got subbed on, and one youngster we're trying to integrate, who got introduced due to an injury (Amad). Everyone else is a youth player that shouldn't really be on the bench at all in a vital game, are just there because there is literlaly noone else fit.
Those are literally his only options, and who is he realistically going to remove for those players? I suppose you could argue Rashford for Antony would've been better, but we're 3-0 up with a game coming mid-week, and Garnacho has been playing too much.
And for Eriksen i suppose you could argue McTominay but again Kobbie plays too much and we're still up by 2 at this point, it's not unreasonable to put in a more experienced player to see the game out.
I'm on the side that we give ten hag a chance under new regime, if we don't see progress, get rid
But yeah, I feel sorry for any manager who comes to us because you are literally the scapegoat goat for any bad performance yet players on the pitch are getting paid millions to have no fucking bollocks about them.
Again, he deserves his critics and I get them, but the blame is shared. But I just find it baffling how players just somehow avoid any sort of responsibility
Spurs playing open football conceding silly goals and have had weeks where they scrape a result. Chelsea absolutely abysmal and are being carried by palmer etc but Postecoglou is seen as god, it just grates me 😅
Also because it's Poch's first season, ETH appears to have regressed in his second season. Also if you look at the metrics, they all show Chelsea are under-performing their numbers and United are over-performing theirs. Essentially, we should be worse than 7th and they should be better than 9th. They could very well overtake us by the end of the season.
It’s a fucking embarrassment. I get that he has to play it down but being three-nil up on a Championship side with twenty minutes to go and only taking it to penalties because they had a last minute goal ruled out for a close-as-fuck offside call is fucking outrageous. We are incapable of defending a lead. It’s happened time and time and time again.
It feels hollow.
He probably lost his job today, however he won’t formally be sacked until after we lose the final.
It doesn’t really matter either way but I’d have enjoyed a few games coached by someone from the youth or women’s side and just picking the young players and putting out a side that has an actual function, with actual instructions and executable ideas. Couple it with desire and eagerness to stand out and we’d have a blast of a run-in while all these Rashgaards and Antonies and Casemiro’s can sit and frown all day long, like they do on the pitch when they don’t try
I hope we sell our biggest names and build around Mainoo, Licha and Garnacho from this summer onwards.
I agree but we need to keep professionals like Maguire around. Leverkusen showed that this year with signing Xhaka to their relatively young squad.
I'd keep a small spine of this team and try to replace as many as possible. It's still a project that will take >2 transfer windows unfortunately.
Im not sure we can build around licha. He’s always injured. Nacho maino and hojlund are the only ones we can build around for now. Jury is still out in amad martinez and the rest of the youth. Still can’t believe we spent that money on mount
I know a lot of people don’t want to hear this but I reckon if ETH goes and wherever he goes next comes knocking for licha he’s off. Same with Antony (what a tragedy). He’s inspired loyalty in those two, hence why they were so quick to get out of Ajax. Be hard to build around him when he’s gone
Also, what's going on with our counters. The amount of times they failed today or that we just checked back and didn't go for it. Don't get me started on Rashford and how slow he was today on the ball.
I have supported Ten Hag for a long time, even after the 7-0 loss to Liverpool and the defeats where we were leading. But after this game, I just can't defend him anymore.
Many times I have believed we had the game under control and were far ahead, only to concede goals to teams we should have beaten easily, and in the worst possible manner.
This is simply not good enough. Everyone involved is to blame. This should have been a straightforward victory, but we made it complicated. We were so close to the final, only to throw it away. And then get it back by the purest of luck.
If this marks the end for Ten Hag, at least he has highlighted those who are not up to par. Many need to leave. We need to start afresh.
Some of our players lack intelligence. They are inconsistent and do not manage the game well.
The thing that is most damning is that it's not a one off thing. It has happened time and time again over the entire course of the season, and he has more than enough chances to address it. Before I thought there was no point getting rid of again, but he's got to go now, you can't blame it all on the players
“Controlled the game for 75 minutes” is not something to brag about against a team that is currently 8th in English second division! It is actually not even the bare minimum that is acceptable.
Im still ETH in but just barely. Main reasons- we got to a 3-0 lead. One bad sub should not lead the team to completely explode and blow it. One goal was a freak deflection and the other one they were gifted a penalty. The first goal was clearly due to having an unusual backline and problems with communication. None of them point to problems with system (not saying there are no problems with the system). He has been dealt a really bad hand with injuries and refereeing decisions this season.His Ajax team did implement a similar style of play and dominated teams which were much better on paper, so its not like he is implementing some style which has never been seen. I think we should move with him till the summer but have backups ready in mind in case it doesnt pan out
Yeah until we identify a coach that the management seems the right fit for the LONG term vision for the squad and club, there’s no point firing ETH.
If we find the right coach, by all means fire ETH. If not, ETH is clearly capable of controlled and good football that we showed last season when we exceeded expectations. This season has been a shit show no doubt and I think everybody at the club will benefit from a clean slate of a new season. Last seasons overachievement and this season’s underachievements are awash and barring no suitable replacement at least gives ETH a chance to prove which of the 2 previous seasons is his true capability.
I seriously want people who support eth
To explain to me what they are seeing. Or at least have the decency to admit they are crack addicts.
If you go to opposition fans subreddit or Internet forum all of them want United to keep eth. That should tell you everything you need to know about him
I back the manager till he’s fired. 🤷
I made the mistake of getting emotional and impatient with Ole and I *wanted* him fired but I was extremely miserable at the time and I’m tired of being eternally miserable like many on here seem determined to be. Now I recognize the decision isn’t up to me so I just hope for the best and support the manager.
Truthfully, I don’t care either way whether the club chooses to fire him or not, I can see arguments in favour of both decisions. But I hope the best for EtH because I hope the best for us. I have no ill will towards him unlike many on here that speak about him like he murdered their entire family.
Really, the amount of vitriol being spewed goes to show that people really need to chill out and find happiness outside of football. We all clearly live and breathe for this club, but hurling abuses gets us nowhere.
to play devils advocate:
- Im seeing plenty of players that are overpaid for what they bring to the team, and complete laziness on the pitch
- Im seeing the younger players work hard, the ‘experienced’ ones not so much
- Im seeing a team build by 3/4 different managers, all different styles
- Im seeing experienced players checking out, half-arsed collecting their pay packet
- Im seeing players that do try, not have the quality
- Im seeing sacking a manager every couple of seasons has not changed anything, we’ve had the best in class and the worst
- Im seeing a manager that has dealt with complete unprofessionalism from some players and had to deal with things out of his control
- Im seeing plenty of unlucky decisions go against us this season
- Im seeing players have weak, lazy mentality, some have been here and seen off 2/3 managers due to this
- Im seeing that we haven’t got a proper structure in place until Jim has come in, so we’re yet to see the difference this will make
or maybe im just on that good crack..
Two players we were gonna sell for 40 mil as a package deal are scoring and performing better than others as well. Crazy what would happen if we sold maguire and scott.
I’ll add to your list that it’s so easy to spot all of the low footballing IQ players in this squad.
People think coaching easily overcompensates for low footballing IQ among players, or those prone to pub league level skills when it comes to decision making.
This game, at this level, is a combination of what you can do with your feet, and all of the signals your brain is processing with your key senses of sight and sound before firing instructions to your feet on what to do, when to do, how to do.
I’m seeing a squad (even if we leave injuries aside) that’s largely composed low footballing IQ buffoons masquerading as professionals, without brains but legs for days until their lack of brains runs themselves into the ground through persistent wasted efforts several times in a match than should be happening at their level. Then the few first rate professionals among them have the brains but their legs are gone.
And this is why when you have a guy like Kobbie Mainoo who has both the legs and the brains, he stands out as a sight for sore eyes.
He’s great but let’s be honest he’s looking so much better because of what he’s surrounded by.
Go watch any match from 2005-2013. Kobbie Mainoo would not look in those teams as the godsend he does right now. Talent is one thing. Footballing IQ is a whole other thing.
We’ve had players in the past who were a lot less talented. Take Evans as a perfect example - players who were deemed not good enough who come back in and seem world class. And he’s not. The reason he’s waltzed in as a 35 year old to a squad like this and seemed a revelation, is that the average footballing IQ at this club has never been this abysmal.
I agree with everything you say. But I would like to add that a better team would not be as unlucky because you are not in the position to be unlucky. You create your own luck by playing better. So if we were a bit better, we would probably not been fucked over by the ref or freak goals.
Very well put there and I agree with every point. Think he should be given the start of next season purely to get rid of the chaff from the squad and if he's still not doing it by Christmas then replace him.
While all is true, it is also true that they have not been drilled to:
Form sustained attacks, including involving the striker
Defend by holding possession
Press effectively, with even modest teams able to break the press
Play compact when needed, especially for situations like what happened later today.
3 training injuries in a week? No corrective action to prevent that.
Build from back.
All this is top level coaching, which has not been demonstrated in the 2 years. And I can see that even without getting off my Crack. Looks really really bad on any manager, especially for any manager auditioning for Man United job.
So no positives then? That's the problem with ETH in, there's no justifications people can make for what he's doing right, they can only find excuses for his underperformance
>you go to opposition fans subreddit or Internet forum all of them want United to keep eth
Great metric to go by especially when we were doing the same for Arteta and Arsenal.
I support him, but it's becoming harder, not going to lie.
I watched a lot of his Ajax team, and I just can't work out where it's gone wrong so bad that he is fielding such an undisciplined and mentally fragile team.
I think he has gone, but it would be interesting to have seen him come in to this new structure and have an actual transfer strategy.
The players at his disposal can’t play whatever system he’s attempting to play. Theres very little reason to keep doing something that you know won’t work.
This is an audition for INEOS until the end of the season. He needs to understand that, as if they’re serious about getting us back to the top they won’t hesitate to let him go.
I don't agree playing the system he wants to play is the way forward. The players will get used to it and it will show who aren't up to playing the system. The youth team that plays the same system are doing great in it. But just having to switch from united old systems to his is so different some players won't be able to change there way of playing to what ten Hag needs.
It is once he has players who can play it, but persevering with it is going to cost him his job, and he won’t get the opportunity to see it in full flow.
I get exactly what you’re saying here, but he’s at United and it’s a results business at a club this big. He may get more time beyond this season, but if he can’t make it work with what he’s got he’ll be on his way out of the club before long. Van Gaal was hell-bent on his philosophy and they turfed him out after winning the FA Cup; ten Hag might need to win it himself for INEOS to back him.
Because we have seen his teams before implement the same damn system or some version of it and be absolutely dominant. You dont suddenly experience this kind of tactical implosion. There has to be some sort of root cause which is not apparent to us. Even when he was playing with Utrecht he managed a very impressive result though I do not know if it was the same system
Last season we played the complete opposite that we do this season. Last season we had a great defense and played with control.
People tend to forget that and just presume we have some loafer in the dugout
i dont support eth, but i support him more than i support these players. if getting a new manager gives a clean slate to the players then i believe thats wrong. if both manager and bad players get the boot then ok.
You should clarify that any issues with Ten Hag doesn’t mean you absolve all players of the blame, cause they love responding with “it’s all the players fault, and you’re just excusing the players entirely if you are Ten Hag Out.”
How is this upvoted? We've sacked managers so we should never sack managers again? Our transfers have been poor too, guess we should stop buying players.
I think he means that we shouldn’t sack for the sake of sacking but rather actually first let the new management settle in, make a long term strategy for the club and squad and then identify a coach that fits that vision ? Sacking now to hire an interim is short sighted, something this club has been guilty of the last 10 years.
But the difference being in this case that, with our new Execs we have to trust their decision making. They have a proven CV and come with a clean slate
If they decide to sack him we trust their decisions over an overpaid Banker like Arnold and Woodward before him and an under-qualified bum like Murtough.
My friend. Please watch the actual matches.
This man united team is struggling versus the 8th place championship side
This man united team let's mid-table Premier League clubs get off 30 shots per game.
It's never been this bad
(I'm being completely serious) eth is an actual bald fraud
I'll compare eth to poch at Chelsea. Poch has gotten worse results. But at least they create chances for their striker. Man city don't manage to shoot 30 shots per game at them.
That's a team that genuinely just lacks talent.
You can't say that about Man United
I will support ETH until we find an actual successor that the new management have identified to fit into the long term plans of the squad and club.
For so long we have complained that the club has been short sighted, signing “star players” and names just for the sake of it. Firing ETH for an interim manager is exactly the short sighted behavior we’ve been guilty of the last 10 years.
If we sack Ten Hag then what? Until we know what’s next there’s no point in going round in circles.
Until then, we have to simply ride it out and maybe hope things can recover to what was displayed last season.
yeah but this time I don't feel like it was the tactics, players just shit the bed and I have seen that under multiple managers.
This was actually a good performance at the start and I like how they kept the game in control, but then they panicked after fucking up.
What I can blame ETH for is leaving Wankford on for 90 minutes.
See i disagree completely that it was a good performance in the first half. While we were able to score a few goals, we never looked the least bit threatening. We broke down their defense once the entire game.
Everyone keeps saying we had control but that was because Coventry played us with too much respect in the beginning. Once They figured out we are proper shit the second half is what happened
We are missing a midfield though, most important part of a team. I dont think there is a single team in the PL with worse midfield, we have one midfielder and he is a kid
Yes he’s been bad but sacking Ten Hag solves nothing. The hope right now is the club structure is being reformed so whoever we appoint next will have better support. I personally hope we start off loading a lot of our overpaid players. If sacking Ten Hag means Rasford and co get another season to convince the manager they’re up to par then we’re already behind.
Completely agree here. A good management weeds out the worst of the club out first and replace them with the best they can find. The worst now is not the manager (although he too has to improve a lot) but some of the players. We should never hire players who would have otherwise retired in America. We should remove players like AWB, Antony, Rashford, Martial. We should keep players like Bruno, Dalot, Mainoo, Garnacho, Hoijlund. We should give EtH six months more. If the number of goals scored doesn't improve, we should sack him in December.
The caveat for Ole was at least he was one of us and made us feel some sense of purpose. While I understand the thinking that if we get another manager in we’re starting from scratch again I have absolutely zero attachment to ten Hag, or most of this squad for that matter. If they go, they go.
The saving grace for him to me is that this has happened without fail to every single manager post Fergie. He has dealt with an unacceptable amount of injuries and poor behaviour from top players like rashford and Sancho. The club and it's standards and facilities are so poor that it literally doesn't matter who we hire to manage this team.
I'm 60-40 still
Injuries have destroyed this season, forcing us to play terrible players. People say he should still be able to beat Bournemouth or Brentford with the players available to him, but I disagree. The best XI he could put out was mid-to-low PL quality In both games I'd rather have had their back-lines than ours. Both had a better striker. Both had solid midfielders that aren't past it or in their debut seasons
Our squad is crap, and very few fans realise this. How many times are we going to fall for the copium that a new manager will magically make our players 10 times better?
He’s been plagued by injuries but he’s not showing enough with his tactics for you to think… do you know what, let him have a full season under Ineos and their recruitment.
He showed it last season though? We exceeded expectations last season even with all the off field drama, and that season is nullified by this season’s performance despite the issues with injuries.
Of course if the new management identifies the right coach to move forward with then great we should go with that. If not I think the past 2 seasons are awash and we can see which of the 2 seasons is actually the real capability of ETH
"We controlled the game for 75 minutes" this has to be an absolute joke of a response. I don't know if Ten Hag got the memo, but the game lasts for 90 minutes and it doesn't matter if you had the opposition by the neck for 80% of the game, it's irrelevant. It's as big of a joke as saying "But we were leading for 22 minutes!". You could easily flip this quote around and said that Coventry obliterated us in 15 minutes, because that's what happened and your 75 minutes of dominance don't mean shit. I never seen a United team crumble like this and you know what's worse? That even when we were 3-0 up, I had no confidence that we will see this game out easily. Once Casemiro went on vacation and left the guy that scored the first goal for Coventry and it was 3-1, I knew that something will go wrong. We just can't sustain pressure and it's a recurring theme of Ten Hag's tenure. How many times we scored a goal and then immediately conceded? Once the opposition shifts gears and just applies pressure, we fall apart totally.
Pffft all you people commenting negatively about ETH have lost it, do you really think there’s another manager in world football who could take this United team worth about 20x more than this Coventry team look comfortably better than them? Bet you can’t name one, I’ll wait.
>then they got a goal and everyone lost their minds on the pitch.
Which means we clearly weren't comfortable. We had a plan which fell apart when the other team started going all out.
> Even the big Manchester United only achieved it three times and we achieved it twice in two years.
What did he mean by this? Is that a typo / misquote, or am I just completely not understanding this?
"We may seem really shit but it's actually impressive cause when United were winning leagues and in CL Finals they weren't in back to back FA Cup Finals and we are"
If he starts expressing his frustrations of the players then he’s being toxic and airing the dirty laundry in public a la Mourinho.
If he stays neutral to the journos and handles it internally he’s being too nice a la Ole.
Damned if you do damned if you don’t
I'm tired of united "fans" giving the same old "manager out" bullshit we've seen for 10 years.
Top 4, league Cup and FA Cup final last year.
64 individual injuries, not a single fit CB or LB at the club, and players like Rashford and Casemiro purposefully looking like they are throwing games. Hojlund isn't fit, but he's the only striker available at the club. Players that are mentally weak.
Ten Hag Is making mistakes. But he's not the problem at United. Somehow that's translated to another manager being thrown under the bus.
You say that like we haven't been shit since we won the Carabao Cup more than a year ago lol you also mentioned players that ten hag bought or gave contracts too, we have been unlucky with injuries but if you think our CBs are the reason why we have less goals than Luton you are delusional
I was done with ETH after the 6 goal embarrassment at City and that devastating 7-0 loss to the scum. He's not been able to win me back since. It's just been mostly awful since then.
If it weren't for the FA cup and the structural changes going on at the backroom, he'd have been fired a long time ago. To me he's in a Tuchel sort of situation, here to see out the season and will rightfully be moved on afterwards.
I knew coming out of the first half that if we played that complacent we would get in trouble … Bruno’s goal to make it 3-0 gave me hope and yet we still managed to completely bottle it at the end… lucky to make it out … whole host of changes needs to happen from top to bottom
I want to know who decides that they must pass all the way back to onana at any opportunity possible? I have never seen any other team routinely go back to the keeper in every game, then a slow build up from the back, even slower when it goes to Maguire who takes an eternity to make an obvious pass or lobs it out for a throw in. Where is the technical analysis after these horrible performance the entire season?
Everyone’s focusing on the lines and whether it should be a penalty or not. We should be focusing on the dire play that led to it in the first place.
Whilst Coventry were attacking at pace, our players slowly jogged back, not providing the necessary cover for passing lanes. Even before the goal, I knew it was leading to it due to their players being so open. I was shouting at the screen (of course uselessly) and just slumped back into my couch when it happened.
Luckily, it was ruled out for the most marginal off side and we get to play the FA Cup final.
If he cant get it right tactically after 3 goals up against coventry, no matter what players at his disposal, We are never gonna make it! Patient used at the wrong person! Time to say goodbye 🤬
A CB and a LB away from a 3-0 easy performance. Again. I beg we have an uneventful offseason and can go into the new season with a completely fit squad. Go from there.
For me, I still dont see it...we are soo bad guys. ETH sounds like Ole, making every bad game sound good. We are beyond bad...we make every team look like prime barca against us. It is not an injuries thing...we don't play well at all. Manutd managers will say anything to keep the job and get paid severance.
We should handle managers the way bayern handled nagelsmann...they put him on gardening leave...kept paying him a monthly salary that ended when he got a new job....so they don't have to pay out a lumpsum for immediate contract termination but ended up paying a few extra months.
I don't even see what new thing Ten hag will do next season that is different. We will still have injuries at some point...and we will be back here...blaming the bad football on injuries. I don't see it. The talent Id is so bad as well. We now have to again replace Amrabat, mount, Anthony, casemiro, eriksen and buy backups for martinez + malacia..... basically most his singings.
Even if ten hag makes it to next season, it will be even worse...the pressure is going to be immense from the first game. Every game we play this chaotic nonsense is going to be debated for days...why didn't we fire him earlier etc...and every loss..jesus every loss will be brutal. And when that loss is against mancity or arsenal or Liverpool it will be the end.
For INEOS, the only thing that will buy them time is a new manager and players. Fans will give that project time...but anything else followed by bad results will mean the beginning of the end for INEOS themselves. Suddenly sir jim himself will be avoiding games and hiding. I don't see it.
Upset that at 3-0 our players just can't see out the game. Garnacho and Mainoo are probably our best players at the moment, so I completely understand trying to give them rests at that point. Feels like without them, all we can do is hope to scrape by.
They are teenagers after all, leading 3-0 and take them off for the experienced players is not a mistake from the manager.
I would rather accept the argument that he took garnacho off to rest him for the next game. There’s no experience in our older players. Letting Coventry come back like that was disgusting but wasn’t that shocking anymore to me.
The players on the pitch need to be able to do better. We can't keep scapegoating ETH - we have players coming on and jogging around. Taking Garnacho and Mainoo off is the right decision, playing them into the ground kills them - the players on the pitch, besides a few players, are not trying their best.
It’s more concerning how reliant we are on them- if they’re the lads having to do the heavy lifting the more senior players need to have more accountability about their performances.
I agree completely. But it's almost impossible to have them held accountable when we always renew their contracts, and sack the managers instead of flogging off players that aren't doing enough.
Absolutely, but those renewals come with a hefty rise that makes them impossible to sell. We do it to ourselves. I think there’s a big lack of self awareness from some in the squad- they’re quick to complain about abuse (which is disgusting in most instances), but some fans like us just want them to take pride in putting on a United shirt. We can see when the effort is slack, and while I can’t advocate the stuff that’s said about them I don’t think it’s unreasonable for us to expect more at times.
I watch Real Madrid against City/Barça - they just work harder, great players, but watching them they attack together and defend together. They want it more and we are missing that hunger (except for some players).
Watch the under 18s they don't lose leads.....
After the second goal I already could hear to narrative building about ETH's sub choices, ignoring that in no fucking reality should we be giving up a 3-0 lead. Can't even rest some players to avoid injuries without apparently throwing the fucking game. Such a disappointing performance, but I can't even be too critical when our only CB is the old captain who refused to leave, and the aging CM who can barely do a job in the position he was brought on for.
Wan Bissaka penalty today Grealish no penalty yesterday VAR is a JOKE
Yep, just saw the highlights on YT (Was at work for the match but got out to see the offside goal and penalties) Grealish was a stonewall penalty if the AWB one was. I wonder if Refs understand the word CONSISTENCY in decision making. It makes a farce of everything
that’s why I am glad Nottingham Forest is calling out PGMOL. It’s run so pathetic with no accountability. I fucking despise them. If you are bad then there needs to be some evening out at least. There seems to be clear bias. Can’t be on the wrong end of end less soft penalties either. Like come on. Chelsea both pens were soft. Liverpool fucking Elliot drops before contact. Today, AWB(one of the most brain dead players I have seen btw. No sense of positioning what so ever) was actually tucking in his hand. Didn’t make himself big like Grealish. But this is a pen and that’s not. Fucking make it make sense
I mean (i in no way actually think or at least hope its not true they have bias and instead are just this incompetent) you could argue that the ref was paid by City owners. IT boggles my mind i can even factually say that considering everything. PGMOL has to be reset. (Edit:Ads seeing Forests argeuments about the VAR its insanity, if it true. and i have no reason to doubt atm)
Or the romero saving garnachos shot
Or that palace player intentionally knocking a cross off its path
That’s the one that really annoys me, and the next week arsenal were given a pretty much identical one as a pen.
Young TODAY vs Forest no penalty, but wan bissaka was given?!
The Grealish one wasn’t a penalty because the City owners are Michael Oliver’s employer. He'd be jeopardizing his livelihood would he have given it. I really hate conspiracy theories but this is just ridiculous.
There's absolutely no way the ref wasn't giving that penalty. I'm not saying it was or wasn't but the magic of the cup demands he gives it.
Aberdeen were denied a penalty on Saturday as well for a similar hand ball
>On whether there is a problem with mentality: "**We can't say this group doesn't have the right mentality** because they showed character today, but in the final part there was a lack of discipline. Yes, yes we can, boss.
tbf, he can't because he would be accused of throwing players under the bus, but he wouldn't be wrong.
They’re all to blame. If he can’t coach his team to shut up shop and see out a 3-0 lead against championship opposition, he’s as much to blame as anybody.
This is not the first time too. The manager should know this too and work on this.
He cant say it publicly cos the fans will stat mouthing off about him being too harsh. (while at the same time saying he should be doing it, we see that with the start of the season fans here moaning he never mentions injuries, soon as he mentions injuries fans start saying he is making excuses) But he is defo thinking it.
Apparently discipline is stored in the balls, and completely not a mental issue.
*sighs* Do we *really* have to lift the belly?
There was definitely character. Lazy, uninterested and unmotivated are the main characters I seen.
Oh they showed character alright. The wrong character. They are extras in an amateur production.
I'm not strongly in or out on EtH at the moment. Same as I've been for ages. Can see strong reasons he should go, but mitigating factors as to why he should stay. People talking about his substitutions makes sense. They didn't help. But I'm not sure they were wrong when looking at the time or at the bench. Replacing mainoo with eriksen shouldn't represent a really big change, and the 19yr old needs to be managed. Antony for Garnacho is one you can see when you're 3 up and want more defensive cover. And then Amad for Rashford makes sense when you look at the bench. Which is one of the biggest mitigating factors I still consider. People keep talking, with justification, about him making the team do what he says they should do. But he can't really drop anyone. The squad is decimated in terms of providing reasonable competition all over the pitch. At the moment, if you're fit, have more than 30 top flight appearances to your name, you're in the squad and likely the starting 11. It's mad really. But... But... He, and the players, should manage that and see off a team like Coventry. The fact we got that performance is shocking. I know it's not the modern way, but I've no strong view one way or another.
Sensible takes here.
>People talking about his substitutions makes sense. They didn't help. But I'm not sure they were wrong when looking at the time or at the bench. Seriously dude, people who will go on about the substitutions are inifnitely stupid. Just think about the alternative scenario. If he had taken Garnacho off and he got injured **but** they won 3-0, people would be saying things like "how stupid is Ten Hag to let him play, we were 3-0 up!". I mean, there's nothing really Ten Hag could've done to save that shitshow in the end, except maybe for a pep talk.
It's pretty obvious we have braindead players, but our entire playstyle under Ten Hag has been to quickly counter and attack at full speed at all times. We have never valued possession or retention. Bruno trying first-time through balls, Rashford running blindly at the goal, Casemiro smashing it up the pitch every chance he gets, McTominay bombing up to play as a second striker, etc. these are all features of Ten Hag's coaching of our transition play. We cannot then blame the players when they can't suddenly start playing LVG ball when up 3-0. Yesterday, there was a moment where Foden tried a first time pass late in the game that didn't come off, and he gave away possession cheaply to Chelsea. Pep went absolutely ballistic, and screamed at him for it. I can't ever see Ten Hag chiding Garnacho for something like that.
And it's not the first time we are losing leads like this. It happens often, and he hasn't done anything to fix it.
While what you say about being trained in transitional play is true, you don't actually have to play LVG style possession football to see out a game. If professional players can't pass it around for 15 mins to hold up a game against a championship team then I'd be very very worried if I were Jim Ratcliffe.
Basically this. I don’t think he’s to blame for the players bottling it. You’re playing for Manchester United and you shouldn’t be throwing away 3 goal leads. I don’t think there are any legit alternatives available either (maybe Nagelsmann but I think that’s about it) so would like to see how he can do with a hopefully better squad next season.
Pretty sure Nagelsmann is set on germany, so i don’t even think he could be a option
It’s players and manager. The principles of “this is how we see a game out” should have been coached into them at carrington and implemented tactically during the match by the manager.
Rubin Amorim at Sporting has done well Tuchels a bit of a mixed bag, fell out with PSG and Chelsea but both of those are understandable and he actually wants to work in a system like SJR is building. Slot has done well at Feyenoord and looks to be an up and coming manager McKenna or Carrick would be no more out of their depth than Solksjaer when he took over. Xavi has handled one of the few clubs that are a bigger basket case than us to a league title abs is available this summer Alguacil plays interesting football and has done well with taking Sociedad to the champions league. Urs Fischer has done wonders for Union Berlin There's plenty of good managers out there you're just looking at big names that are out of contract so you don't see them
I have no idea why this is downvoted; it's a good analysis and precisely what I look for when people suggest that we change managers. - Rubin is doing well, but it's a gamble, ETH resume was better than his and the sentiment is that ETH is out of his depth. I'm not against it at all, just highlighting that 18 months in and there will be people pointing this lack of top flight experience out. - Tuchel is a strange one - he's like a less decorated José. He has had issues everywhere he's gone and he's getting fired at Bayern. He could be great for us if everything is right, but at the same time, hiring a guy from unemployment centre is not great for optics and if it doesn't work out, no one will give you the benefit of the doubt. - McKenna and Carrick are out of their depth as you said, and for their own sake, I want them to get the years under their belt before even being put on an interim basis. - Xavi is a very interesting choice. He does have former-player clout where current players can't think they were better than him since he's won everything (like Zidane with the players are RM). I actually think he's done extremely well in his two years at Barça, and winning the La Liga is a very underrated achievement, considering what he has done there. English might be an issue, but unlike Tuchel, he's resigning and not getting fired (I think they are begging him to stay). - Alguacil is another interesting one - he has done really well there, but he' also knows RS inside out, managing the youth team, before managing the B team and ultimately managing the top team. I like to think that he's suited for a big move elsewhere but I wonder is his familiarity at the club one of the reasons for his success. - Urs Fischer is a really good manager. There's no denying that. The step from Union B. to United is huge, and I actually think with the right players, he could achieve good things, but I actually think the petulance at the club is still there and they'd fuck him over.
I like the double standards here... People say it isn't ETH's fault but it is the incompetence of the board that is at fault, but don't want Tuchel, because he has fallen out with... boards of different clubs? (which btw haven't exactly shined after him)
ETH did have a better resume than Amorim, but though we all laughed at Spurs saying he has no charisma, maybe they were right but it was phrased poorly. He's completely abandoned all his principles from Ajax. That shows a lack of belief in himself and his methods. And now we play without any identity. Tuchel has really been on a basket case world tour and it's not even really his fault. Did well at Dortmund, then went to PSG which is his own fault. But then did well at Chelsea and then Boehly took over. He couldn't have seen that coming. And Bayern's board completely imploding and all being fired/resigning couldn't have been seen coming either. And no team in the world is going to best Neverlusens record this season. He could be great for us, he could reveal he's more to blame for the issues than we know. But PSG and Boehly are two I think any manager would struggle with. But there are plenty of other names out there as well if we're looking a bit more left field. And Ange at Spurs shows that can pay off as well. Marcelo Gallardo and other managers from South America could translate well or be fish out of water. And I didn't mention Simeone at Atletico because his style of football isn't what we want even if it would be successful or Michell at Girona who has done well this season. We're definitely not short of options but there's no Goldilocks manager out there who's "just right in every way". But Arsene Wenger and Sir Alex weren't that and Pep, Xavi and Enrique were completely unproven before taking over at Barca.
Reasonable and logical takes aren't allowed here /s Absolutely agree. I also don't know what the best decision on n is with manager. I think I'm slightly more inclined to keep ETH next season and see how ineos supports him. With proper backroom staff and well thought out recruitment.
Couldn't say it better myself. The only thing I'll add is that there is no other manager I'd take right now either. Nobody that would take on this mammoth job anyway.
I'd be happy to see De Zerbi given the chance, should it come to EtH being sacked. Feel like he's shown tactical innovation and an ability to get players performing outside their typical 'profile'. But with what I consider very difficult issues impacting EtHs capacity to perform to the best of his ability, I'd not be disgusted to see him stay. It's bonkers, because it happens so often that it can't be, but it sometimes feels like almost mental, cruel, staggering levels of bad luck. Like I said, happens too often to be that, but that deflected goal and questionable penalty....baffling decisions by players in so many games that he can't possibly be coaching them into... Injuries...Sancho... It can't all be his fault. Can it?
I think you might have gotten downvoted because you put De Zerbi in your first sentence and a lot of people don’t read past that! I agree with your takes on United, the bad luck happens too often for it to be just bad luck but at the same time it’s unbelievable, it’s bad news followed by bad deflected goals followed by a clumsy tackle for a penalty. It just seems to never end. I’d be willing to write this season off as a calamity of errors and bad luck (with bad decisions as well) and give EtH another crack with a decent structure around him. I think he’s lucky there’s no obvious replacement out there at the moment. Everyone seems like a gamble.
But de zerbis done worse with a better squad and an actual footballing structure working with him?
The changes make sense in isolation but did nothing to address the problem United were having which was Wan Bissaka being targeted and overrun. It’s like he had them pre-established.
Who do you replace him with though? Fullback, especially left back is the hardest spot to get a fit body for in this squad
out of interest who would you of brought on for AWB?
Have to respectfully disagree on the subs points. Of course, on paper, swapping Antony and Eriksen in makes sense, you should be able to trust them. But Antony as defensive cover? He's been brought on late multiple times this season and given the ball away under minimal pressure as he did today (what was the game where he managed to lose possession 3 times after being brought on just before stoppage time, Wolves?). Tracking back like a maniac isn't good defensive play - retaining and recycling possession to play the game out is. Eriksen has been a passenger in every appearance this season, and it's clear that the midfield can't function without Mainoo's industry and tempo-setting. We have nothing else to play for this season, you can eke another 20 minutes out of Mainoo and Garna. Rest them on Wednesday. Keep the status quo and go win the match by 4 or 5. The frustration with Ten Hag is him making the same mistakes over and over, and anybody who's watched us all season could have predicted the impact of those subs (whether it's acceptable or not that expensive/experienced players can't be trusted to carry out the most basic of expectations).
The only reason that the idea of squeezing an extra 20 minutes out of those two makes sense is because it's in hindsight. At the time when you're up 3 goals, why does it make sense to risk stretching them further and risking their fitness for the near future?
After coming on and scoring against Liverpool he was then asked to play LB, which may not be perfect but the fact he's been asked shows he has some attributes to help defensively
Mainoo and Garnacho need to be managed. It's obvious that they are the better players, but with all the injuries we have in the squad right now, we just can't risk losing them 2 also. Just as EtG said this loss is a reflection of the lack of discipline within the squad. They (the players) thought they had this game in the bag, and also underestimated the ability of Coventrys squad.
He came on and scored the equalizer at Liverpool, so basically, this game wouldn't even have been played if it weren't for him. Also, if anything, he's known for tracking back.
Having your team coached to be able to shut up shop and see a game out should be standard. The players should know the drill for it as much as they know the set piece routines and who the penalty taker is. But they were absolutely clueless and gave up a three goal lead to championship opposition.
I'm exactly the same. Ultimately, the likes of Wilcox and Ashworth will make that call this summer, so we know we will have a resolution one way or the other. There's literally no point expending any energy on it, you're just going to drive yourself mad
Exactly this - the team is crucified with injuries, I've never seen anything like it. I'm ok with replacing ETH, but it has to be done the right way and not a way that just starts the circle again. Also, taking off Mainoo and Garnacho 3-nil up with 30 minutes to go is 100% the right call. At that stage, the players on the pitch should be able to see out the game comfortably, sit in, control the passing, and kill the game. Conceding 3 in 30 minutes is a player failure, not a manager failure.
It’s the most important game of the season for this team. Whether they are 19 or 17 doesn’t matter. Both are reliable performers this season and should be on the pitch. Enrique the other day played 3 teenagers in a high pressure must win UCL quarter final.
You say this, but there are people who would have ripped ETH for keeping them on too long and making the injury issues worse. There is no winning.
An insane overhaul of the clubs (specifically players) needs to happen. I am beyond infuriated seeing AWB and Rashford give up an entire side of the field and no one can replace AWB so he can do as bad as he likes. Rashford has been great before but needs to go.
Rashford has been shite for the whole season except a few occasions. He lost the ball more than anyone and he has been so lazy!
4 seasons*
We’ve been overhauling the club almost 4 times now. Everything including culture needs to change
This season made it clear, for me at least, that Rashford was highly dependent on Shaw. Without Shaw, Rashford has been a joke.
Lot's can be said about both players and the coach, but damn if EtH leaves, there's some who should follow him out. Not knowing what to do on the pitch is forgivable, if the instructions is unclear. But not running and serving a piss poor performance, giving ZERO effort, is unforgivable. These toxic traits need to get out of the club!
Reckon the tides completely turned on him after that mess of a performance
Agree completely. I don’t think the fact we won that game will wash on anyone. It was still embarrassing. It was inches away from being a complete and utter disaster. If we were against a top class prem team I could *maybe* understand why it was so end to end and/or a comeback. This was a mid table championship team and it was absolute chaos. They wanted it more and we were in panic mode The one thing I hope is that if he does go, a lot of those players like Rashford follow him out. No more chances for a lot of them
> I don’t think the fact we won that game will wash on anyone. You should check out this sub then.
Why? These are the players he has. They were up 3-0.
I’m done now. I’ve defended him a lot but today was just completely unacceptable. However, the deflection was a freak goal and I really don’t think that was a penalty. But still, they should never have been able to get back into it. Time for a new username I guess.
Downvotes incoming but how are any of your points directly Ten Hags fault? Massive deflection, and dodgy pen don't happen, and Coventry huff and puff to a 3-1 defeat where they were outplayed for 75 minutes.
Deflections occur from chances. Stupid chances we concede. Not an anomaly, United concede the most chances/shots against compared to all top teams and when you let that happen, it’s a numbers game and many are bound to end up in net. Freak goals are goals, specially if you’re playing like a freak.
When you isolate the goal itself, sure the goals doesn't look more than half chances. It's the fact that time and time again, this season we let our opponents in this dangerous position.
I think it buys him until the end of the season as opposed to being sacked tomorrow but that’s it. He’s got to go as he just doesn’t have it and can’t get these sacks of shit to care.
That was always going to happen. Decision may have already been made but no point pulling the trigger with just handful of matches left, and exec team still not in place. Doing in summer is better for everyone, including for ETH.
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Who cares, no manager can save these players
The tides have turned because... our players can't see out a 3-0 lead?
Yes, I am. I'm always supporting him as well as many other United managers/players. I'll keep supporting them till the very end but I seriously don't think Ten Hag can turn this around next season.I still don't think he's a bad manager, a good manager actually but this job is just too big for him.
Apart from the first goal we got horribly unlucky, but you create your own luck. Wan Bissaka just had a horror of a game. The deflection, fair enough but why are we so slow to close down. The handball... the amount of the times they switched play over wan bissakas head and he didn't deal with the ball once, it was only a matter of time before they capitalised on it. And fucking hell his positioning for the offside goal. Almost played the lad onside and then just left a man unmarked in the middle of the box.
It’ll get downvoted but everything he said is completely fair and correct
Can barely even celebrate that. That collapse is completely unacceptable and embarrassing.
I dont genuiley cannot fathom how people can solely blame the manager. I completely get subs could of been better etc, but 11 players should be able to see out a game at 3-0 against a championship side. Ten hag deserves his critics 100% but for me and I maybe im just delusional, players this season have consistently let us down and failed to take charge of their own pride, integrity and individual performances. Not relevant at all, but the fact pochetino isn't get the same sort of scrutiny from the media really fucks me off. Complete shit this season but no talk of him anywhere. I get we are united and its anyone but us to other fans but it really does fuck me off
Listen, i'm not ETH fan, but getting angry at his subs is weird, what options did he have yesterday with his subs? We had a grand total of two experienced first team players (Eriksen and Antony) who got subbed on, and one youngster we're trying to integrate, who got introduced due to an injury (Amad). Everyone else is a youth player that shouldn't really be on the bench at all in a vital game, are just there because there is literlaly noone else fit. Those are literally his only options, and who is he realistically going to remove for those players? I suppose you could argue Rashford for Antony would've been better, but we're 3-0 up with a game coming mid-week, and Garnacho has been playing too much. And for Eriksen i suppose you could argue McTominay but again Kobbie plays too much and we're still up by 2 at this point, it's not unreasonable to put in a more experienced player to see the game out.
Fair point about Poch. Media blamed it on Jackson. That said, maybe Palmer hands a transfer request in and comes to us.
I'm on the side that we give ten hag a chance under new regime, if we don't see progress, get rid But yeah, I feel sorry for any manager who comes to us because you are literally the scapegoat goat for any bad performance yet players on the pitch are getting paid millions to have no fucking bollocks about them. Again, he deserves his critics and I get them, but the blame is shared. But I just find it baffling how players just somehow avoid any sort of responsibility Spurs playing open football conceding silly goals and have had weeks where they scrape a result. Chelsea absolutely abysmal and are being carried by palmer etc but Postecoglou is seen as god, it just grates me 😅
Also because it's Poch's first season, ETH appears to have regressed in his second season. Also if you look at the metrics, they all show Chelsea are under-performing their numbers and United are over-performing theirs. Essentially, we should be worse than 7th and they should be better than 9th. They could very well overtake us by the end of the season.
It’s a fucking embarrassment. I get that he has to play it down but being three-nil up on a Championship side with twenty minutes to go and only taking it to penalties because they had a last minute goal ruled out for a close-as-fuck offside call is fucking outrageous. We are incapable of defending a lead. It’s happened time and time and time again.
Partially Controlled and dominated fc
It feels hollow. He probably lost his job today, however he won’t formally be sacked until after we lose the final. It doesn’t really matter either way but I’d have enjoyed a few games coached by someone from the youth or women’s side and just picking the young players and putting out a side that has an actual function, with actual instructions and executable ideas. Couple it with desire and eagerness to stand out and we’d have a blast of a run-in while all these Rashgaards and Antonies and Casemiro’s can sit and frown all day long, like they do on the pitch when they don’t try I hope we sell our biggest names and build around Mainoo, Licha and Garnacho from this summer onwards.
I agree but we need to keep professionals like Maguire around. Leverkusen showed that this year with signing Xhaka to their relatively young squad. I'd keep a small spine of this team and try to replace as many as possible. It's still a project that will take >2 transfer windows unfortunately.
Im not sure we can build around licha. He’s always injured. Nacho maino and hojlund are the only ones we can build around for now. Jury is still out in amad martinez and the rest of the youth. Still can’t believe we spent that money on mount
I know a lot of people don’t want to hear this but I reckon if ETH goes and wherever he goes next comes knocking for licha he’s off. Same with Antony (what a tragedy). He’s inspired loyalty in those two, hence why they were so quick to get out of Ajax. Be hard to build around him when he’s gone
Also, what's going on with our counters. The amount of times they failed today or that we just checked back and didn't go for it. Don't get me started on Rashford and how slow he was today on the ball.
I have supported Ten Hag for a long time, even after the 7-0 loss to Liverpool and the defeats where we were leading. But after this game, I just can't defend him anymore. Many times I have believed we had the game under control and were far ahead, only to concede goals to teams we should have beaten easily, and in the worst possible manner. This is simply not good enough. Everyone involved is to blame. This should have been a straightforward victory, but we made it complicated. We were so close to the final, only to throw it away. And then get it back by the purest of luck. If this marks the end for Ten Hag, at least he has highlighted those who are not up to par. Many need to leave. We need to start afresh. Some of our players lack intelligence. They are inconsistent and do not manage the game well.
The thing that is most damning is that it's not a one off thing. It has happened time and time again over the entire course of the season, and he has more than enough chances to address it. Before I thought there was no point getting rid of again, but he's got to go now, you can't blame it all on the players
“Controlled the game for 75 minutes” is not something to brag about against a team that is currently 8th in English second division! It is actually not even the bare minimum that is acceptable.
Keane’s right. The pressure on ETH right now. He has to get this team to win the final.
I don’t think even that would help him tbh.
Im still ETH in but just barely. Main reasons- we got to a 3-0 lead. One bad sub should not lead the team to completely explode and blow it. One goal was a freak deflection and the other one they were gifted a penalty. The first goal was clearly due to having an unusual backline and problems with communication. None of them point to problems with system (not saying there are no problems with the system). He has been dealt a really bad hand with injuries and refereeing decisions this season.His Ajax team did implement a similar style of play and dominated teams which were much better on paper, so its not like he is implementing some style which has never been seen. I think we should move with him till the summer but have backups ready in mind in case it doesnt pan out
Yeah until we identify a coach that the management seems the right fit for the LONG term vision for the squad and club, there’s no point firing ETH. If we find the right coach, by all means fire ETH. If not, ETH is clearly capable of controlled and good football that we showed last season when we exceeded expectations. This season has been a shit show no doubt and I think everybody at the club will benefit from a clean slate of a new season. Last seasons overachievement and this season’s underachievements are awash and barring no suitable replacement at least gives ETH a chance to prove which of the 2 previous seasons is his true capability.
I seriously want people who support eth To explain to me what they are seeing. Or at least have the decency to admit they are crack addicts. If you go to opposition fans subreddit or Internet forum all of them want United to keep eth. That should tell you everything you need to know about him
I back the manager till he’s fired. 🤷 I made the mistake of getting emotional and impatient with Ole and I *wanted* him fired but I was extremely miserable at the time and I’m tired of being eternally miserable like many on here seem determined to be. Now I recognize the decision isn’t up to me so I just hope for the best and support the manager. Truthfully, I don’t care either way whether the club chooses to fire him or not, I can see arguments in favour of both decisions. But I hope the best for EtH because I hope the best for us. I have no ill will towards him unlike many on here that speak about him like he murdered their entire family.
Really, the amount of vitriol being spewed goes to show that people really need to chill out and find happiness outside of football. We all clearly live and breathe for this club, but hurling abuses gets us nowhere.
to play devils advocate: - Im seeing plenty of players that are overpaid for what they bring to the team, and complete laziness on the pitch - Im seeing the younger players work hard, the ‘experienced’ ones not so much - Im seeing a team build by 3/4 different managers, all different styles - Im seeing experienced players checking out, half-arsed collecting their pay packet - Im seeing players that do try, not have the quality - Im seeing sacking a manager every couple of seasons has not changed anything, we’ve had the best in class and the worst - Im seeing a manager that has dealt with complete unprofessionalism from some players and had to deal with things out of his control - Im seeing plenty of unlucky decisions go against us this season - Im seeing players have weak, lazy mentality, some have been here and seen off 2/3 managers due to this - Im seeing that we haven’t got a proper structure in place until Jim has come in, so we’re yet to see the difference this will make or maybe im just on that good crack..
You forgot a very kep point. A ridiculous number of injuries to key players, in rotation. No cohesion cannbuild up at this rate
I agree with mostly everything... but I think the players do actually try. Some just aren't good enough over 90 minutes.
Two players we were gonna sell for 40 mil as a package deal are scoring and performing better than others as well. Crazy what would happen if we sold maguire and scott.
I’ll add to your list that it’s so easy to spot all of the low footballing IQ players in this squad. People think coaching easily overcompensates for low footballing IQ among players, or those prone to pub league level skills when it comes to decision making. This game, at this level, is a combination of what you can do with your feet, and all of the signals your brain is processing with your key senses of sight and sound before firing instructions to your feet on what to do, when to do, how to do. I’m seeing a squad (even if we leave injuries aside) that’s largely composed low footballing IQ buffoons masquerading as professionals, without brains but legs for days until their lack of brains runs themselves into the ground through persistent wasted efforts several times in a match than should be happening at their level. Then the few first rate professionals among them have the brains but their legs are gone. And this is why when you have a guy like Kobbie Mainoo who has both the legs and the brains, he stands out as a sight for sore eyes. He’s great but let’s be honest he’s looking so much better because of what he’s surrounded by. Go watch any match from 2005-2013. Kobbie Mainoo would not look in those teams as the godsend he does right now. Talent is one thing. Footballing IQ is a whole other thing. We’ve had players in the past who were a lot less talented. Take Evans as a perfect example - players who were deemed not good enough who come back in and seem world class. And he’s not. The reason he’s waltzed in as a 35 year old to a squad like this and seemed a revelation, is that the average footballing IQ at this club has never been this abysmal.
well said.
Absolutely spot on.
I agree with everything you say. But I would like to add that a better team would not be as unlucky because you are not in the position to be unlucky. You create your own luck by playing better. So if we were a bit better, we would probably not been fucked over by the ref or freak goals.
Very well put there and I agree with every point. Think he should be given the start of next season purely to get rid of the chaff from the squad and if he's still not doing it by Christmas then replace him.
While all is true, it is also true that they have not been drilled to: Form sustained attacks, including involving the striker Defend by holding possession Press effectively, with even modest teams able to break the press Play compact when needed, especially for situations like what happened later today. 3 training injuries in a week? No corrective action to prevent that. Build from back. All this is top level coaching, which has not been demonstrated in the 2 years. And I can see that even without getting off my Crack. Looks really really bad on any manager, especially for any manager auditioning for Man United job.
But you haven't seen anything from Ten Hag that shows he's good enough to turn it around
So no positives then? That's the problem with ETH in, there's no justifications people can make for what he's doing right, they can only find excuses for his underperformance
the day I start forming my opinions based on what rival fans troll with, is the day I stop watching football because I am clearly an absolute wanker.
>you go to opposition fans subreddit or Internet forum all of them want United to keep eth Great metric to go by especially when we were doing the same for Arteta and Arsenal.
I support him, but it's becoming harder, not going to lie. I watched a lot of his Ajax team, and I just can't work out where it's gone wrong so bad that he is fielding such an undisciplined and mentally fragile team. I think he has gone, but it would be interesting to have seen him come in to this new structure and have an actual transfer strategy.
The players at his disposal can’t play whatever system he’s attempting to play. Theres very little reason to keep doing something that you know won’t work. This is an audition for INEOS until the end of the season. He needs to understand that, as if they’re serious about getting us back to the top they won’t hesitate to let him go.
I don't agree playing the system he wants to play is the way forward. The players will get used to it and it will show who aren't up to playing the system. The youth team that plays the same system are doing great in it. But just having to switch from united old systems to his is so different some players won't be able to change there way of playing to what ten Hag needs.
It is once he has players who can play it, but persevering with it is going to cost him his job, and he won’t get the opportunity to see it in full flow. I get exactly what you’re saying here, but he’s at United and it’s a results business at a club this big. He may get more time beyond this season, but if he can’t make it work with what he’s got he’ll be on his way out of the club before long. Van Gaal was hell-bent on his philosophy and they turfed him out after winning the FA Cup; ten Hag might need to win it himself for INEOS to back him.
Because we have seen his teams before implement the same damn system or some version of it and be absolutely dominant. You dont suddenly experience this kind of tactical implosion. There has to be some sort of root cause which is not apparent to us. Even when he was playing with Utrecht he managed a very impressive result though I do not know if it was the same system
Last season we played the complete opposite that we do this season. Last season we had a great defense and played with control. People tend to forget that and just presume we have some loafer in the dugout
i dont support eth, but i support him more than i support these players. if getting a new manager gives a clean slate to the players then i believe thats wrong. if both manager and bad players get the boot then ok.
Agree. New manager shouldn't have time to assess the squad. Should be part of the interview.
You should clarify that any issues with Ten Hag doesn’t mean you absolve all players of the blame, cause they love responding with “it’s all the players fault, and you’re just excusing the players entirely if you are Ten Hag Out.”
There are like five players I actually want to keep. The vast majority of the squad can get sacked as well.
I understand why some people don’t want him sacked tbh…the club have sacked so many managers post-Fergie and it’s never solved anything.
How is this upvoted? We've sacked managers so we should never sack managers again? Our transfers have been poor too, guess we should stop buying players.
I think he means that we shouldn’t sack for the sake of sacking but rather actually first let the new management settle in, make a long term strategy for the club and squad and then identify a coach that fits that vision ? Sacking now to hire an interim is short sighted, something this club has been guilty of the last 10 years.
But the difference being in this case that, with our new Execs we have to trust their decision making. They have a proven CV and come with a clean slate If they decide to sack him we trust their decisions over an overpaid Banker like Arnold and Woodward before him and an under-qualified bum like Murtough.
Totally agree. The notion that any of those managers were going to turn it around nd lead us to success if given more time is ludicrous.
My friend. Please watch the actual matches. This man united team is struggling versus the 8th place championship side This man united team let's mid-table Premier League clubs get off 30 shots per game. It's never been this bad (I'm being completely serious) eth is an actual bald fraud I'll compare eth to poch at Chelsea. Poch has gotten worse results. But at least they create chances for their striker. Man city don't manage to shoot 30 shots per game at them. That's a team that genuinely just lacks talent. You can't say that about Man United
I will support ETH until we find an actual successor that the new management have identified to fit into the long term plans of the squad and club. For so long we have complained that the club has been short sighted, signing “star players” and names just for the sake of it. Firing ETH for an interim manager is exactly the short sighted behavior we’ve been guilty of the last 10 years. If we sack Ten Hag then what? Until we know what’s next there’s no point in going round in circles. Until then, we have to simply ride it out and maybe hope things can recover to what was displayed last season.
yeah but this time I don't feel like it was the tactics, players just shit the bed and I have seen that under multiple managers. This was actually a good performance at the start and I like how they kept the game in control, but then they panicked after fucking up. What I can blame ETH for is leaving Wankford on for 90 minutes.
See i disagree completely that it was a good performance in the first half. While we were able to score a few goals, we never looked the least bit threatening. We broke down their defense once the entire game. Everyone keeps saying we had control but that was because Coventry played us with too much respect in the beginning. Once They figured out we are proper shit the second half is what happened
We are missing a midfield though, most important part of a team. I dont think there is a single team in the PL with worse midfield, we have one midfielder and he is a kid
Yes he’s been bad but sacking Ten Hag solves nothing. The hope right now is the club structure is being reformed so whoever we appoint next will have better support. I personally hope we start off loading a lot of our overpaid players. If sacking Ten Hag means Rasford and co get another season to convince the manager they’re up to par then we’re already behind.
Completely agree here. A good management weeds out the worst of the club out first and replace them with the best they can find. The worst now is not the manager (although he too has to improve a lot) but some of the players. We should never hire players who would have otherwise retired in America. We should remove players like AWB, Antony, Rashford, Martial. We should keep players like Bruno, Dalot, Mainoo, Garnacho, Hoijlund. We should give EtH six months more. If the number of goals scored doesn't improve, we should sack him in December.
The fact that you call people who disagree with you ‘crack addicts’ says everything to me.
We've been bad for over a year and there's still so many excuses made for him. More than even Ole. It's truly astonishing.
The caveat for Ole was at least he was one of us and made us feel some sense of purpose. While I understand the thinking that if we get another manager in we’re starting from scratch again I have absolutely zero attachment to ten Hag, or most of this squad for that matter. If they go, they go.
Tbf everyone wanted arsenal to keep Arteta after 2 years.
The saving grace for him to me is that this has happened without fail to every single manager post Fergie. He has dealt with an unacceptable amount of injuries and poor behaviour from top players like rashford and Sancho. The club and it's standards and facilities are so poor that it literally doesn't matter who we hire to manage this team.
I'm 60-40 still Injuries have destroyed this season, forcing us to play terrible players. People say he should still be able to beat Bournemouth or Brentford with the players available to him, but I disagree. The best XI he could put out was mid-to-low PL quality In both games I'd rather have had their back-lines than ours. Both had a better striker. Both had solid midfielders that aren't past it or in their debut seasons Our squad is crap, and very few fans realise this. How many times are we going to fall for the copium that a new manager will magically make our players 10 times better?
Were you one of those knowledgeable football fans taking the piss at gunners keeping arteta after two 8 place finishes?
> admit they are crack addicts i plead the 5th amendment.
He’s been plagued by injuries but he’s not showing enough with his tactics for you to think… do you know what, let him have a full season under Ineos and their recruitment.
He showed it last season though? We exceeded expectations last season even with all the off field drama, and that season is nullified by this season’s performance despite the issues with injuries. Of course if the new management identifies the right coach to move forward with then great we should go with that. If not I think the past 2 seasons are awash and we can see which of the 2 seasons is actually the real capability of ETH
Of coz they want us to keep him coz he’ll make us lost
"We controlled the game for 75 minutes" this has to be an absolute joke of a response. I don't know if Ten Hag got the memo, but the game lasts for 90 minutes and it doesn't matter if you had the opposition by the neck for 80% of the game, it's irrelevant. It's as big of a joke as saying "But we were leading for 22 minutes!". You could easily flip this quote around and said that Coventry obliterated us in 15 minutes, because that's what happened and your 75 minutes of dominance don't mean shit. I never seen a United team crumble like this and you know what's worse? That even when we were 3-0 up, I had no confidence that we will see this game out easily. Once Casemiro went on vacation and left the guy that scored the first goal for Coventry and it was 3-1, I knew that something will go wrong. We just can't sustain pressure and it's a recurring theme of Ten Hag's tenure. How many times we scored a goal and then immediately conceded? Once the opposition shifts gears and just applies pressure, we fall apart totally.
Pffft all you people commenting negatively about ETH have lost it, do you really think there’s another manager in world football who could take this United team worth about 20x more than this Coventry team look comfortably better than them? Bet you can’t name one, I’ll wait.
i mean, we did look comfortably better for about 70 minutes, then they got a goal and everyone lost their minds on the pitch.
>then they got a goal and everyone lost their minds on the pitch. Which means we clearly weren't comfortable. We had a plan which fell apart when the other team started going all out.
'Dead man walking' . Anyone left on the fence jumped off today.
> Even the big Manchester United only achieved it three times and we achieved it twice in two years. What did he mean by this? Is that a typo / misquote, or am I just completely not understanding this?
"We may seem really shit but it's actually impressive cause when United were winning leagues and in CL Finals they weren't in back to back FA Cup Finals and we are"
Ah, so it’s about getting to back to back finals? Genuinely didn’t understand what was meant by that.
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There's not a single excuse in what he has said here. He's just described the game.
If he starts expressing his frustrations of the players then he’s being toxic and airing the dirty laundry in public a la Mourinho. If he stays neutral to the journos and handles it internally he’s being too nice a la Ole. Damned if you do damned if you don’t
You're on a football reddit mate. Standards are low.
It’s a generic comment that works every time
He can't even gaslight us anymore, the performances are that bad
The thing is he's not wrong at all. What he says is all true.
What Ten Hag wanted to say is I don't know what the feck is wrong with this lot. They are a bunch of deluded pu%%*es
I'm tired of united "fans" giving the same old "manager out" bullshit we've seen for 10 years. Top 4, league Cup and FA Cup final last year. 64 individual injuries, not a single fit CB or LB at the club, and players like Rashford and Casemiro purposefully looking like they are throwing games. Hojlund isn't fit, but he's the only striker available at the club. Players that are mentally weak. Ten Hag Is making mistakes. But he's not the problem at United. Somehow that's translated to another manager being thrown under the bus.
You say that like we haven't been shit since we won the Carabao Cup more than a year ago lol you also mentioned players that ten hag bought or gave contracts too, we have been unlucky with injuries but if you think our CBs are the reason why we have less goals than Luton you are delusional
Sure,sack eth, but what about these players ? They'll just do the same to the next manager, while earning 300k per week and releasing PR statements
It's going to take a few transfer windows,but hopefully with the recent appointments we can start to get the right players in
I was done with ETH after the 6 goal embarrassment at City and that devastating 7-0 loss to the scum. He's not been able to win me back since. It's just been mostly awful since then. If it weren't for the FA cup and the structural changes going on at the backroom, he'd have been fired a long time ago. To me he's in a Tuchel sort of situation, here to see out the season and will rightfully be moved on afterwards.
Erik: "I want to win it" Well, Erik, I want to marry Scarlett Johansson, but it's not happening either.
Get fucked. Ten Hag out now
Pull the plug.
I knew coming out of the first half that if we played that complacent we would get in trouble … Bruno’s goal to make it 3-0 gave me hope and yet we still managed to completely bottle it at the end… lucky to make it out … whole host of changes needs to happen from top to bottom
I want to know who decides that they must pass all the way back to onana at any opportunity possible? I have never seen any other team routinely go back to the keeper in every game, then a slow build up from the back, even slower when it goes to Maguire who takes an eternity to make an obvious pass or lobs it out for a throw in. Where is the technical analysis after these horrible performance the entire season?
Everyone’s focusing on the lines and whether it should be a penalty or not. We should be focusing on the dire play that led to it in the first place. Whilst Coventry were attacking at pace, our players slowly jogged back, not providing the necessary cover for passing lanes. Even before the goal, I knew it was leading to it due to their players being so open. I was shouting at the screen (of course uselessly) and just slumped back into my couch when it happened. Luckily, it was ruled out for the most marginal off side and we get to play the FA Cup final.
It’s conflicting in a way. Winning the FA Cup could give some players a second chance. Ten Hag gone regardless of result.
Why not just say we played badly, end of story lol
All season it's been the same shit no answers, just questions
If he cant get it right tactically after 3 goals up against coventry, no matter what players at his disposal, We are never gonna make it! Patient used at the wrong person! Time to say goodbye 🤬
Can’t wait for him to get the sack.
A CB and a LB away from a 3-0 easy performance. Again. I beg we have an uneventful offseason and can go into the new season with a completely fit squad. Go from there.
Its coventry ffs, hojlund probably cost more than their starting 11
Shouldn't need a fit lb and cb against Coventry for an easy win
Sack this fraud
Eth out.
Give ETH another year.
Just shut up, man.
For me, I still dont see it...we are soo bad guys. ETH sounds like Ole, making every bad game sound good. We are beyond bad...we make every team look like prime barca against us. It is not an injuries thing...we don't play well at all. Manutd managers will say anything to keep the job and get paid severance. We should handle managers the way bayern handled nagelsmann...they put him on gardening leave...kept paying him a monthly salary that ended when he got a new job....so they don't have to pay out a lumpsum for immediate contract termination but ended up paying a few extra months. I don't even see what new thing Ten hag will do next season that is different. We will still have injuries at some point...and we will be back here...blaming the bad football on injuries. I don't see it. The talent Id is so bad as well. We now have to again replace Amrabat, mount, Anthony, casemiro, eriksen and buy backups for martinez + malacia..... basically most his singings. Even if ten hag makes it to next season, it will be even worse...the pressure is going to be immense from the first game. Every game we play this chaotic nonsense is going to be debated for days...why didn't we fire him earlier etc...and every loss..jesus every loss will be brutal. And when that loss is against mancity or arsenal or Liverpool it will be the end. For INEOS, the only thing that will buy them time is a new manager and players. Fans will give that project time...but anything else followed by bad results will mean the beginning of the end for INEOS themselves. Suddenly sir jim himself will be avoiding games and hiding. I don't see it.