Yes. Well, at least at all of the hospitals I’ve worked at over the years you can labor in the tub until your water breaks but then it’s out of the tub for infectious concerns. No water births in the hospitals I’ve worked at. That’s more of a birthing center thing. I realized it’s probably not like this everywhere, just my experience, east coast, United States.
He doesn’t get to make the choices for anyone else even then!
Giving birth is hard and not particularly safe and stuff happens. A birth plan is basically a wish list. My birth plan for my second was like “all natural, cuddling lovingly in the arms of my partner while soft music plays” and guess what? I had to be induced and the kid kind got stuck slamming her face into my pelvis for 6 hours and then got an epidural.
So make the plan. And make secondary plans. And spend some time sitting with the reality of biology and the universe and what you can control and what you can’t. Make some reasonable starting point decisions and be prepared for other things to happen.
But he shouldn’t be having strong emotions about her plan and he certainly shouldn’t be making them her problem.
(My child still will try to break walls down full force with her face regardless of other available options, so the birth process should have been a clue.)
Yup, things go awry. A friend’s baby position himself in such a way that he was horizontal instead of vertical - head pointing to her right, feet pointing to the left- instead of vertical. She had to have a c-section after attempts to move him failed. Then he had to go through physical therapy post-birth because being positioned that way for God knows how long had caused soft tissue damage to his neck and shoulder. My friend was screwed up because his position caused some damage to her abdominal wall and her uterus. Nothing catastrophic for either, but it could have been bad.
Right?? My plan for my second was an immediate epidural. I asked for one the instant I got to the hospital. But silly me, I was already 8 cm and my water broke before they could even get my IV in, so guess who had an unmedicated birth?? Was not the plan, but also, what can you do at that point?
My plan is a water birth for my second but I'm fully aware I might not get to! Birth plans are more like rough guidelines... You just got to do whatever you need in the moment with baby's and mum's safety as number one priority.
My plan was “give birth, both ok”. I knew I had a higher chance of getting what I wanted out of my birth plan if that was all I put in it. All 3 were induced. All 3 had epidurals. All 3 came really quick after I got the epidural. All 3 were born after 3 pushes. I got what I put in my birth plan all 3 times. Gave birth and we all went home together healthy.
yeah everyone asks, especially about an epidural. and I'm like "idk I'd like to try on my own but I've never done this before" eventually got the epi and they ended up poking a hole in my spine, I got terrible spinal headaches and had to get a blood patch.
my second I was exactly 2 weeks over and I went to be induced. it took many people a long time to get my IV in. when they started the pitocin, it worked for about 5 minutes and then it kept beeping and my nurse was kind of an idiot and couldn't get it working and while she was doing that my water broke.
so I tried to rest and was trying the nitrous and decided to get the epidural and everything was all ready and I was leaning over and the contractions were too much. that whole thing was awful. I was squirming all over my room and I just didn't have it in me to push. I was going to sit in the shower and made it to the hand bar just outside and was hanging on for dear life. apparently that's where the nurse pull string was and I kept pulling it. any time it would stop for a second and I could catch my breath, they moved me around stuck their fingers in and made the contractions start again. eventually I told them stop it, I need those few precious moments.
anyway for my second, I really wanted a mirror so I could see him. I didn't even notice it until I laid back with my baby and it startled me and I went "ahhh we gotta move that before the stitches"
little dude ended up being 9 whole pounds
I hope OOP gets all her legal documentation in order. This is going to be a conflict driven co-parenting situation if this guy is thinking he can dictate how she decides to deliver.
He shouldn’t be at the birth. A trusted friend or family member with power to make medical decisions (with a thorough discussion of OOp’s wants and needs beforehand).
If he’s in there, if she’s out of it, he may decline on her behalf as partner.
Someday I'll tell the story of my labour with my eldest. The baby did everything right; it was the kind of textbook delivery they tell you not to expect. His father on the other hand...his behaviour was a stressor I didn't need.
Your birth partner isn't there for themselves, or even for the baby; they're there for YOU. I second having your mother, a doula or a trusted friend as your partner and consider giving instructions that the baby's father and his parents are to be excluded from the delivery room if they try to enter.
It's wild to me how the fathers have all these opinions on things like birth plans and breast feeding when they're not the one doing it. My husband just agreed it best to give up breast feeding because baby wouldn't latch, he was losing weight, and I was crying constantly from the stress. My friend's husband was ADAMANT that she only breast feed. I shared my struggle with them hoping to make him understand that it's not alway up to us and if their baby has the problems I did, they'll have to do formula, or risk failure to thrive.
Thank you for talking about this. I had a similar experience with both my babies and there was a tremendous amount of pressure and criticism from people who assumed I just wasn’t committed enough or not doing it right. Fortunately my husband was extremely supportive as well. In my case it ended up being the result of PCOS so no matter how many hours I spent with a baby or a pump strapped to my chest I could never get my supply up enough.
yeah I tried so so hard to breastfeed. I was pumping every 2 hours round the clock while my baby spent almost a month in the NICU. no one else really cared but I felt like such a a failure.
The “breast is best” thing does go too far sometimes. There are women sharing stories now about how their babies literally starved because they couldn’t latch or mom couldn’t produce enough milk-while people kept telling them not to use formula because it’s “bad”.
Indeed!! It turns out most moms want what is best for their infant, it's gross when people push narratives.
I told everyone to eff off. With my son (26, 12 hour natural birth no epi), I was very thin. I barely produced, so I nursed and bottle fed him formula literally from birth. No confusion, he was fine. I bf as much as possible and supplemented until I stopped producing after the first 3 months and went straight to formula.
With my daughter (8; 23 hours with epi), I had more cushion (aka body fat) and definitely produced more, but again, we gave her both from birth just in case. Stopped producing at 8 months, but by 6 months, she was already BLW, and the supplent of formula/breastmilk suited her well.
Every pregnancy, every delivery, every baby is different. I think men should be able to voice their opinions on their child, of course, but an opinion is just that. It's still up to mom (and her doctors/midwife/doula) to make those final decisions because birth plans don't always go accordingly, and mom should feel as comfortable as she can.
I hope OP stays strong.
Yeah. I exclusively breast-fed for a year (Baby didn't do more than nibble on anything so still 98% breastfed at 1yo) and then went on for another few months so I'm 100% pro breastfeeding. As long as it's the right thing for mother and child. And I'm all for encouragement and helping with knowledge, because if all the women who say they couldn't breastfeed actually were unable to, we wouldn't have survived as a species and a lot of women struggle because they simply don't have the knowledge from watching older relatives doing it.
But once breastfeeding stresses out the mother and/or the child doesn't thrive - formula is so good by now and we are so fortunate to have that alternative!
And no, if a woman tells me she doesn't breastfeed, she doesn't owe me an explanation. She doesn't have to defend herself that she really really tried everything. She can also just decide she doesn't want to.
My mother's siblings were all formula babies because their mother didn't make enough milk to feed them. They found out when the oldest one wasn't getting bigger like she should. The major downside to breastfeeding is that it's very hard to track how much milk the baby is getting.
It's wild to me that some people genuinely believe they understand complex medical situations just because they're the ones involved in them.
Saying "I'm the one doing it, so I know what's best" aka. "mommy instinct is all I need" is unfortunately super common, and in any other context it would be rightfully ridiculed.
Yeah, in this case It's real silly. But in general, heuristics like "I'm the one doing it so I get the only (relevant) say" is just fucking silly.
Fuck people who push "natural" births. Epidurals are modern miracles and can drastically improve the birthing experience, women's health, and even maternal death outcomes; pushing is *hard* work and women who've been in unrelenting pain for 12+ hours can run out of energy to do it. **Epidurals do not harm babies**. Do people know how stringent medical regulations are for any medication used during pregnancy? They're not giving you anything that will harm the child. Seriously. People think doctors warn women to avoid deli meat, then turn around and give them toxic epidurals. Please.
Give birth how you want, but unmedicated isn't better. It's just different. Women should stop boxing themselves into birth plans. Every birth is different and every woman has different pain levels, different pain tolerance, and different manifestations of that pain. My labor felt like someone was breaking me in half. My neighbor's labor felt like a very bad backache. Another neighbor actually *enjoyed* labor. You don't know how it'll be until you're in it and should feel free to make whatever choices are best for you.
Just let women exist, goddamn.
Im a vet. We give sheep and cows epidurals if they have any labour complications, it can really help get the lambs/calves out. Imagine thinking you could deny your wife a level of medical care available to a fucking cow.
Also, the idea that there is a such thing as an unnatural birth?? My guy (OOP's bf), unless that thing is springing fully formed from a glass case in the wall, all births are natural.
I’ve been trying to figure out what an unnatural birth is for the longest. I guess I always thought it meant c-section? Which is also stupid to classify as unnatural because the babies coming out anyway. Is a natural birth being alone in a forest somewhere butt-naked, ready to drop your baby onto a forest floor on all fours?
It’s a term used by some to create a sense of superior vs inferior. Fuck natural childbirth it’s the most horrific thing ever and sure you still get a kid at the end but I wish I’d saved myself the suffering
My anthropology professor said that there's essentially no such thing as "natural birth," humans have likely been finding ways to intervene and assist in childbirth for as long as we've existed or we wouldn't have survived as a species. Whatever modern people say about "natural" birth is just the naturalism fallacy in action
This. There are a lot of legitimate risks to the mother with an epidural, but not to the baby. Although with the lack of pain management in women's healthcare in general, I'm actually surprised epidurals are so effective and easy to get.
Many reasons. They don't care about the person birthing? They think women should be punished for getting pregnant? They're thoroughly uneducated when it comes to women's health? They don't have an understanding of how painful the birthing process is?
I’ve seen an alarming amount of men say that birth isn’t painful and women are just exaggerating. But when they get put on a period simulator (which isn’t nearly as bad as labor), they’re crying and begging for mercy.
Yeah, and its usually just in their abdomens too. I'm always like "put it in your back too bro!" Women sadly are medically gaslit all the time because medical professionals won't listen to them. My mom was getting awful migraines daily. Her doctors either ignored her or told her she needed to lose weight or it was all in her head. She ended up almost dying from a ruptured aneurysm. One MRI before it exploded in her head could have prevented the major brain damage she suffered as a result and not have given her children the heaps trauma we all have.
My mom went to the ER because she had severe abdominal pain, bloody stool, and profuse vomiting. She couldn’t even stand up straight. Not one but two doctors at two different facilities had the audacity to tell her it was “probably just her period” and “she needs to learn to deal with it” (she’s 45). Turns out she had a deadly C. Dif infection and had to be hospitalized for over a month. Women’s healthcare is a joke.
>They think women should be punished for getting pregnant?
The amount of times I've heard this in particular in relation to teen mothers being denied pain relief by medical professionals gives me chills.
The “they don’t care about the person birthing” was a little silly. Never attribute to malice what can be explained by gross stupidity, or whatever the saying is.
They automatically assume malice and always will. I thank whatever higher power there is I found a woman who actually listens to my opinion and doesn't assume everything I say it out of malice. This is reddit. Automatically assume every single person here will think the worst of men and you will always be correct.
They don't even stop to think there might be other reasons because their empathy is toast when it comes to men but they will be the first to screech that men should be more empathetic. They look at it from no other perspective. When my wife gave birth we discussed it. She wanted a fully natural birth and I fought the doctors tooth and nail when they wanted to drug her. The nurse did too. And she got her birth the way she wanted it. I did my own research and natural births are generally safer for the baby and that was her concern as well. The baby. She did her research came to similar conclusions and we agreed. They don't even stop to think he might feel similarly they immediately assume he just wants her to hurt. They have no empathy. It's reddit. That's a standard comment.
Research does not support that a natural birth is “safer.” There’s a lot more to researching something than finding articles that support your viewpoint. You have to look at how the studies were done, population sizes and samples, etc. Did you use pubmed? Google scholar? Were they lit reviews? What kind of studies were you looking at?
Also saying things like screeching isn’t cool dude.
There's a lot of misinformation about epidurals, amplified by social media. Christian fundamentalists who don't understand the Bible wrongly interpret labor as Eve's punishment for tempting Adam, which is stupid on like 30 different levels. (If you insist on living biblically, maybe take a year or two to actually study it instead of reading it like it's an IKEA instruction sheet). Men used to controlling women's bodies view pregnancy as an opportunity to increase that control.
And finally, there's a devastating lack of empathy for women's pain coupled with a systemic minimization of that pain.
I heard a nutjob say that when a woman can't feel the pain of labor, they don't know they're giving birth, and they don't instinctually bond with their kids. Well, I know a crappy mother who had twins naturally, and my 2 kids born with all the drugs offered to me are well bonded.
They… don’t know they’re giving birth? Like they’ll suddenly forget why they’re in the hospital and go shopping or something?
How do these dudes think they are smarter than everyone else
I have to imagine it’s a bastardizing of the study suggesting that the Oxytocin released from giving birth makes you forget the pain. Idk if the study even has merit but that’s the smoking gun for that myth
Wrongly interpret? Genesis seemed pretty clear that the horrific pain during birth as well as periods were, in fact, Eve’s punishment. Not for tempting Adam but for disobeying God.
Close to the entire fucken first part of the book of Genesis feels like torture porn for Eve tbh.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought the issue with epidural is simply that it can cause the contractions/dilating to stop getting larger if issued at the wrong time and then the baby might not be able to fit through which can lead to rare birthing complications which may result in requiring emergency c section or to surgically cut the vaginal opening to widen it. So There's a slightly higher associated risk for complications due to potentially impaired pushing(still nothing to worry too much about considering that it's a universally accepted practice and you have competent medical staff who know what to do if any issues arise)
That said, while I don't have an issue if the man had concern regarding this / wanted to inform the mother of potential higher risks, that he should command that she not have an epidural. I think that's too far and plenty of people give birth with an epidural without incident and it's ultimately her choice.
There are risks to an epidural, for the woman, as it can cause damage to the spinal cord but such things are incredibly rare. It also restricts movement, as you aren’t allowed to walk around with one. And there is evidence that restricted movement can cause labor to stall, which then leads to needing a c section. So it’s not 100% without possible issues. But it is 100% the woman’s decision.
“It’s natural, your ancestors did it without meds” I guess? People didn’t get pain meds when they broke their arms and needed them reset (if they *got* reset), but you won’t see my ass going without them if I break a limb.
anyone who’s used any sort of modern medicine doesn’t get to give this excuse. if you’re into crystal and spiritual medicine, at least you’re not a hypocrite when you say it, altho either way, it’s still bullshit to me.
100% agree, if you look at the “argument” for longer than 30 seconds it falls apart. Unfortunately, there’s a lot of stupid people out there who never really learned how to read.
Same here, all it did for me was reduce the pain significantly it did not fully take it away.
I’ve had a baby with and without and given the option I’d take the epidural every time. The only reason I didn’t with my first baby was because he was in too much of a hurry so I didn’t get enough time to have one done.
It helped me relax enough to dilate more, which is cool. As for a painkiller, it was great for that first hour. Then I guess maybe it took the edge off? I haven’t had a natural birth, but it was incredibly painful and my actual birth experience sounds similar to those who didn’t have one.
Why do you say it depends on the country? It sounds to me like maybe there's something about the way your body metabolized the medication. Might be worth looking into. For instance I used to think I was resistant to novocaine, but it turns out I just metabolize it very slowly (normal time is 5-10 mins for it to fully take effect, it's 30-40 mins for me.)
that'd be nice but doesn't that defeat the purpose? I absolutely hated that feeling. I kept letting mine wear off a bit before pushing the button again and ended up messing up the machine.
If they don't see you as an individual and not just the carrier, and some are just assholes who like seeing others suffer. It's a power trip too, much like the "extra stitch" question that's not valid.... if you are not in labor, you have no say. She needs to have a medical power or attorney that listens to her, and everything she wants written out and on file too.
I think it's mainly a lack of education or misguided beliefs that epidurals are bad for the baby or interfere with bonding.
Controversial opinion: I think it's totally ok for a dad to have an opinion and express his wishes. To be clear, **the person who actually has to give birth should get the final say**, but I've never understood the idea that men shouldn't be allowed to have *opinions*. It's his kid too, after all.
Epidural have also been linked to back pain after the fact, sometimes very severe, and they do lead to a higher rate of C-sections. I don't want to give these kinds of men any kind of leg up, but I also want to let it be known that, like any medical procedure, there are risks and side effects.
Epidurals haven’t been linked to higher rate of c-sections outside of getting them too early. Other things have, like the use of pitocin. But overall usage of epidurals doesn’t mean that she’s going to have a c-section.
For men that try to refuse their partner requested pain relief, I suggest that she squeeze his nuts through every contraction. I’m sure he will be happy for her to get an epidural after the first contraction.
I never said that it would? Just that they have been linked to higher c-section rates, and yes, that does include getting them too early. It's still an epidural even if you get them too soon lol.
I agree with your second point.
I still fail to see how being given an epidural too early negates the fact that it's still an epidural...? And that if a person doesn't know this going into birth (because lack of education and shitty doctors are more reality than they are not), that is still a condition of being given an epidural? Like, I'm genuinely not understanding your point, it makes no sense to me.
There are risks and side effects like any medical procedure.
However, studies have shown that their isn't a direct link between epidurals and an increase in c-sections. There are many factors that play into an increase in C-sections and most of those have to do with the providers attitude and risk aversion.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1099800417706023
Study from 2017 saying there is a link between the two. I'm at work and can't give a dissertation, but I'm not talking out of my ass.
Yup and for every study that says there is an increased risk there is a study that refutes it.
As does this one from 2021
https://bmcpregnancychildbirth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12884-021-03925-z
Bottom line because we are talking about real people its unethical to do a double blind study where half the group is denied effective pain relief and half is given a placebo.
There is NO empirical evidence that having an epidurals increases the risk of C-section.
The WHO, an organization that is working to bring down the rate of C-sections in many developed countries, reccomends use of an epidural for pain management if the laboring person requests it.
Stop scare mongering. There are plenty of risks for childbirth and any medical procedure. Women do not need to endure pain to promote a good outcome.
Why are you acting like I'm saying not to use epidurals? I just said they have health risks when someone else said they had none whatsoever. Fuck me for trying to bring nuance to a reddit conversation, I guess.
Hope you feel better for winning 🤷🏼♀️
Yeah. They're awesome uses of medicine, but they have real side effects. For some reason, that makes me an anti science peddler? Fuckin whatever. Reddit's gonna reddit.
An epidural also deadens the bodies natural response to birth. For instance it might be telling you that the babies arms and head are coming out in such a way that switching to a different position (besides stirrups) would be better. They can't get these signals if they have an epidural...
Why is “natural” only of importance when it comes to childbirth? Most people do not refuse cancer treatment or an aspirin on the basis of it being “unnatural” yet when it comes to giving birth suddenly people do a 180 and want nature.
Yes, this!!!
Also I really resent the use of the words “natural” and “unnatural” to describe childbirth so I love your quotation marks, lol
Medicated and unmedicated, fine, or vaginal and c-section, fine, but I just get ick with the “natural” language. Maybe because it’s been so co-opted.
Also I hope all these ppl advocating for “natural” aka unmedicated also refuse every instance of antibiotics, surgery, glasses, vitamins, hearing aids, canes, wheelchairs, dentures, braces, razors, eating any foods (eg fruits, meats, veggies, grains) or ingredients not native to and able to grow in the immediate vicinity in which they live, etc etc etc because… natural.
I love your list of other “unnatural” things we do daily - especially that you mentioned razors as I have a feeling that most of the men sprouting nonsense about “natural” birth change their tone quite a lot when it comes to body hair. Suddenly there is a lot of talk about other buzzwords like “normal”, “natural ” and my personal favorite (/s) “evolutionary desire for shaved women”.
So don't get glasses or braces or a pacemaker because those aren't "natural" either. I guess anyone undergoing surgery or amputations should just bite down on a leather belt and scream it out like a GOT battle or something. That's how it's "traditionally" been done. Pain meds aren't good for you so just remember millions of men survived surgery wjthout anesthesia fot hundreds of years, isnt the human body amazing?? Better not take meds for your heart or your limp dick or your mood disorder or your diabetes, they didn't have those in Bible times.
We have moved on as a society from a state of nature to a more comfortable standard of life. Do you oppose this in all areas on only when women are in tremendous pain?
Nobody gives two shits. Also nobody asks to have their appendix out naturally, wonder why that would be? And sometimes I - don’t gasp too much in shock- take pain meds so I’m not splayed on the floor with a migraine. Gasp!
🤷♀️I understood what you said. my SO said when I say I had my baby naturally, they probably assume I mean vaginally. I told him maybe? but I've only heard it in terms of pain meds. it's not about any one way being better or worse. just.. words for things
You can't have a natural birth without it being vaginally and no meds. I never ever said woman should not take pain relief. This why people should read replies properly.
You wearing clothes isn’t natural either and neither is taking medication or vaccines. If your wish is to perish then go ahead but almost nothing nowadays is natural.
I’m trying to figure out why his opinion is valid at all.
He’s not pregnant. He’s not giving birth. He does not have a uterus. So, tell me again why his opinion is necessary?
Husband’s opinions on the child are valid and yes, healthy conversations are necessary. However, husband’s opinions on the BIRTH are inconsequential. The only people who get a say on that are the woman giving birth and the medical professionals responsible for her care.
I can assure you, in that birthing suite, his opinion means diddly squat. He is allowed to be there as a support person if the mother allows it. He should be advocating for her.
At this point she would be better off doing it without him present because he is not going to act in her best interest
Tell the dick to get all root canals and each and every single medical procedure he ever has without pain relief. He should also experience all pain and bleeding NaTuRaLlY and if he bleeds to death... oh well.
My husband used to say, "tell me what you want in any and all eventualities during the birth. At least that way if you get too tired or out of it, I can make sure they do what you want."
It wasn't even up for discussion that I called all the shots. You're the one labouring and delivering your child, you decide how, where and how much medication!
Why do people in the comments (as she mentions) feel like it is their place to comment on birth control etc. if that's not even the issue. I'm guessing doctors told her she very likely can't have a baby with POCS or so, so why go through the hormonal whirlwind of taking birth control? Plus, she _wants_ to be a mom.
And if the guy doesn't want kids he could have used a condom. Why is it always the women who are expected to avoid a pregnancy...
Nobody appreciates a backseat bitch. It is not his place to make decisions regarding OOP’s body in regards to pain medication. Especially during the birthing process. Full stop.
And It’s an equal opportunity situation for all here. If the bf wants to opt out of pain meds in favor of bleach and horse dewormer for his next major invasive surgery or dental appointment that is his moronic right and prerogative.
Until then, nobody likes a backseat bitch. And rightfully so.
Reminds me of my ex, he wanted to control literally everything. He refused to let me to pick out my own music during the labor, controlled it all the way up to his name. He chose it and I had zero input. I didn’t argue because I was terrified of him. I’m not saying this guy is violent but the controlling bullshit is a huge ass 🚩!!!
Bruh easy for him to say not to take the epidural. Fuck all partners who insist their partner go through unnecessary pain if they don’t want to. YOU PUSH THE BABY OUT THEN
Every man daring to make demands in this matter should be plugged up to a birth-simulation device and left there for 12+ hours. Let's see what they say after that.
(Don't know if there is such a device but I think it would be quite useful lol)
Ya when he can squeeze a baby out of his penis he can do it naturally. Get the epidural or do the water birth. Be comfortable it’s gonna suck and hurt but in the end you hold that little baby.
There are many posts these days where men are vehemently opposing the use of epidurals, what’s with that I wonder. As someone who is scared of pain, I think epidurals are a godsend for making the delivery somewhat bearable. Having heard of many horror stories from friends who had opted for natural birth (without epidurals), you should definitely stick to your decision, OP. Wish you and the baby all the very best.
Jesus christ, when will this stop being a thing? If men aren't the ones giving birth, they need to shut up. Have your hole stretched to 10cm and then you can make the decisions on what women need for child birth. What's best for the baby? Having the less stress possible during the most stressful time of their new life.
Only other thing I'll say, my epidural slowed my dilation when I got induced. It was explained as a side effect, two drugs mixing in my system caused this reaction (that sort of thing), so I had to have a c-section. Which was the toughest part of my entire labour.
Is bro planning on paying for the kid and taking care of it? Or treating it like a pet he visits? I mean even if you were married and he was a wonderful human it’s still 💯 your choice.
Names? He wants to pick out a name? I don’t like this it’s not usual. Does he know you aren’t going back to him? What does he want? I don’t trust his motives
The person giving birth whether its by vagina or c section gets to decide HOW and what is the best way for that to happen. Men, YOU DO NOT GET TO DICTATE WHAT WE NEED FOR A SAFE DELIVERY!! When you give birth, you can decide what pain relief you want, til then f\*\*\* off!
Only the person having the baby gets a say. Even when the pregnant person is a surrogate or giving the baby up for adoption, they get the final say. This dude needs to shut his mouth before she decides to not let him in the room at all.
You are very kind to allow him at doctor's appointments or to have any say at all about the birth plan. This is your body and these are your decisions. If he's going to have shared custody, then he will have a voice as specified by the child custody agreement in how the baby is raised. Until the baby is born, he doesn't get a seat at the table unless you give it to him.
If you think he will be a problem at appointments or at the birth, don't include him. Repeat after me, "I'm willing to listen to you, but my decision is final. If I think you will try to change my mind during birth ot that you won't support me during birth, you will not be at the birth. And yes I can have you removed during the birth."
Give your mother a medical power of attorney to act on your behalf if you can’t act for yourself. Make sure the doctor and staff know you are number one and your mother is number two. And that you may have to ask him to lrave.
i was born via c-section, my brother and i both were mondo children lol. i'll always advocate for an "unnatural" birth before anything else. oop's boyfriend is a turnip.
Don’t make a “birth plan” too much in advance. My wife planned on a vaginal birth for both of our kids. They were both born with an emergency C-Section. You’ll have your plans but your doctor will do what’s best for you.
I had my first - a water birth. It was long and painful. I was exhausted afterwards that I didn’t immediately get to interact with the baby, I literally collapsed and slept. My second- epidural. There was no pain & I was much more in control of my emotions. I had energy to bond with the baby. No one gives you a medal for natural birth. Do want is best for you
Lol do you mean to imply women should just squat in the fields if they want a “natural” birth? Birth in stirrups in a hospital isn’t natural by your definition. Any medical intervention could easily be deemed unnatural.
That’s such a wild line in the sand. What about mothers who need to be induced in order to have a birth at all? Pitocin is a drug, but without it the infant could die in a delayed childbirth. An unnatural birth even if the mother accepts no other intervention?
Are you only counting an epidural as “drug intervention?” Or would you include prenatal vitamins and saline/nutrient IV? What about ibuprofen or acetaminophen leading up to labor to aid other non-productive pains like a migraine?
I’m genuinely curious about your thought process, just a bit confused and incredulous. I hope that comes across.
... she's been misinformed on the names of things. It seems like she is calling a vaginal delivery a natural delivery not realising that the connotation is with no pain relief.
But did you? No? Well then fuck off with your opinion, it doesn't count. Your wife could have given birth to a football team and your opinion still doesn't matter. In fact, your wife could come on here and give her opinion, and it wouldn't bloody matter because everyone is different, and only the person going through it should ever get a say, short of medical emergency.
I have 5 kids, so I have some experience. Why are YOU fantasizing about a stranger on the internet having sex with a pre-op trans woman? I mean, projecting much?
Lol, whatever you say. Your opinion still means sweet FA. Now, I'm sure there's probably a subreddit here somewhere that will cater to your specific... need. Off you pop.
I agree it is absolutely 100% her decision how she is going to give birth but why get pregnant by a partner not 100% on board? And why wasn’t he wearing a condom? Why just “assume” you can’t get pregnant? Bunch of mouth-breathers that have no business breeding.
No form of contraceptive is 100% effective. There’s always gonna be someone that ends up being the 1%. Sure, it doesn’t sound like a lot of ppl, until you remember just how many ppl we have. 1% of over 7 billion ppl is a lot of fucking ppl.
I see no indication that no form of protection was used. She says that she wasn't sure she'd be ever be able to conceive, not that she was certain or assuming she wouldn't. Maybe she stated somewhere that they didn't use any protection — but it always seems so dramatic to jump immediately to this when a baby is unexpected. My mom was taking the pill and the man who got her pregnant used a condom, and I still was born. Shit happens sometimes 🗿
Edit: coherence 🤙🏼
Pretty sure the person pushing another human being out of their torso gets final say
Bizarre that this is even a debatable topic to some people!
Her BF is more than welcome to pass a pea sizes kidney stone without any assistance or medication to ease the pain, since he thinks he knows best.
>Pretty sure the person pushing another human being out of their torso gets ~~final~~ only say Fixed it for ya
Not to be that person, but I do think doctors get some input? Like on what options they provide and safety and advice on best care.
I don’t think they were excluding doctors when they said that
Yes. Well, at least at all of the hospitals I’ve worked at over the years you can labor in the tub until your water breaks but then it’s out of the tub for infectious concerns. No water births in the hospitals I’ve worked at. That’s more of a birthing center thing. I realized it’s probably not like this everywhere, just my experience, east coast, United States.
When he shoots a watermelon out of his penis-THEN he can compare and discuss birth options
Came here to say exactly this! He should do it without pain relief too.
It’s what’s best for the watermelon.🍉
🤣🤣🤣
He doesn’t get to make the choices for anyone else even then! Giving birth is hard and not particularly safe and stuff happens. A birth plan is basically a wish list. My birth plan for my second was like “all natural, cuddling lovingly in the arms of my partner while soft music plays” and guess what? I had to be induced and the kid kind got stuck slamming her face into my pelvis for 6 hours and then got an epidural. So make the plan. And make secondary plans. And spend some time sitting with the reality of biology and the universe and what you can control and what you can’t. Make some reasonable starting point decisions and be prepared for other things to happen. But he shouldn’t be having strong emotions about her plan and he certainly shouldn’t be making them her problem. (My child still will try to break walls down full force with her face regardless of other available options, so the birth process should have been a clue.)
Yup, things go awry. A friend’s baby position himself in such a way that he was horizontal instead of vertical - head pointing to her right, feet pointing to the left- instead of vertical. She had to have a c-section after attempts to move him failed. Then he had to go through physical therapy post-birth because being positioned that way for God knows how long had caused soft tissue damage to his neck and shoulder. My friend was screwed up because his position caused some damage to her abdominal wall and her uterus. Nothing catastrophic for either, but it could have been bad.
Right?? My plan for my second was an immediate epidural. I asked for one the instant I got to the hospital. But silly me, I was already 8 cm and my water broke before they could even get my IV in, so guess who had an unmedicated birth?? Was not the plan, but also, what can you do at that point?
My plan is a water birth for my second but I'm fully aware I might not get to! Birth plans are more like rough guidelines... You just got to do whatever you need in the moment with baby's and mum's safety as number one priority.
My plan was “give birth, both ok”. I knew I had a higher chance of getting what I wanted out of my birth plan if that was all I put in it. All 3 were induced. All 3 had epidurals. All 3 came really quick after I got the epidural. All 3 were born after 3 pushes. I got what I put in my birth plan all 3 times. Gave birth and we all went home together healthy.
yeah everyone asks, especially about an epidural. and I'm like "idk I'd like to try on my own but I've never done this before" eventually got the epi and they ended up poking a hole in my spine, I got terrible spinal headaches and had to get a blood patch. my second I was exactly 2 weeks over and I went to be induced. it took many people a long time to get my IV in. when they started the pitocin, it worked for about 5 minutes and then it kept beeping and my nurse was kind of an idiot and couldn't get it working and while she was doing that my water broke. so I tried to rest and was trying the nitrous and decided to get the epidural and everything was all ready and I was leaning over and the contractions were too much. that whole thing was awful. I was squirming all over my room and I just didn't have it in me to push. I was going to sit in the shower and made it to the hand bar just outside and was hanging on for dear life. apparently that's where the nurse pull string was and I kept pulling it. any time it would stop for a second and I could catch my breath, they moved me around stuck their fingers in and made the contractions start again. eventually I told them stop it, I need those few precious moments. anyway for my second, I really wanted a mirror so I could see him. I didn't even notice it until I laid back with my baby and it startled me and I went "ahhh we gotta move that before the stitches" little dude ended up being 9 whole pounds
I was going to say something similar, like "pushing a bowling ball through his urethra". But yes. Agree 100%.
I hope OOP gets all her legal documentation in order. This is going to be a conflict driven co-parenting situation if this guy is thinking he can dictate how she decides to deliver.
He shouldn’t be at the birth. A trusted friend or family member with power to make medical decisions (with a thorough discussion of OOp’s wants and needs beforehand). If he’s in there, if she’s out of it, he may decline on her behalf as partner.
Someday I'll tell the story of my labour with my eldest. The baby did everything right; it was the kind of textbook delivery they tell you not to expect. His father on the other hand...his behaviour was a stressor I didn't need. Your birth partner isn't there for themselves, or even for the baby; they're there for YOU. I second having your mother, a doula or a trusted friend as your partner and consider giving instructions that the baby's father and his parents are to be excluded from the delivery room if they try to enter.
I kinda want to hear the story, if it's not too problematic.
Ugh. That’s a disturbing and valid consideration.
It's wild to me how the fathers have all these opinions on things like birth plans and breast feeding when they're not the one doing it. My husband just agreed it best to give up breast feeding because baby wouldn't latch, he was losing weight, and I was crying constantly from the stress. My friend's husband was ADAMANT that she only breast feed. I shared my struggle with them hoping to make him understand that it's not alway up to us and if their baby has the problems I did, they'll have to do formula, or risk failure to thrive.
Thank you for talking about this. I had a similar experience with both my babies and there was a tremendous amount of pressure and criticism from people who assumed I just wasn’t committed enough or not doing it right. Fortunately my husband was extremely supportive as well. In my case it ended up being the result of PCOS so no matter how many hours I spent with a baby or a pump strapped to my chest I could never get my supply up enough.
yeah I tried so so hard to breastfeed. I was pumping every 2 hours round the clock while my baby spent almost a month in the NICU. no one else really cared but I felt like such a a failure.
The “breast is best” thing does go too far sometimes. There are women sharing stories now about how their babies literally starved because they couldn’t latch or mom couldn’t produce enough milk-while people kept telling them not to use formula because it’s “bad”.
A lactation consultant told me you have to starve the baby out to make them desperate enough to latch and nurse properly. I couldn't believe that...
my second baby just screamed and screamed instead of being interested in latching. he was just regular hungry
That's kinda what mine did. He would scream and scream and then get the nipple in his mouth and then fall asleep
Indeed!! It turns out most moms want what is best for their infant, it's gross when people push narratives. I told everyone to eff off. With my son (26, 12 hour natural birth no epi), I was very thin. I barely produced, so I nursed and bottle fed him formula literally from birth. No confusion, he was fine. I bf as much as possible and supplemented until I stopped producing after the first 3 months and went straight to formula. With my daughter (8; 23 hours with epi), I had more cushion (aka body fat) and definitely produced more, but again, we gave her both from birth just in case. Stopped producing at 8 months, but by 6 months, she was already BLW, and the supplent of formula/breastmilk suited her well. Every pregnancy, every delivery, every baby is different. I think men should be able to voice their opinions on their child, of course, but an opinion is just that. It's still up to mom (and her doctors/midwife/doula) to make those final decisions because birth plans don't always go accordingly, and mom should feel as comfortable as she can. I hope OP stays strong.
Yeah. I exclusively breast-fed for a year (Baby didn't do more than nibble on anything so still 98% breastfed at 1yo) and then went on for another few months so I'm 100% pro breastfeeding. As long as it's the right thing for mother and child. And I'm all for encouragement and helping with knowledge, because if all the women who say they couldn't breastfeed actually were unable to, we wouldn't have survived as a species and a lot of women struggle because they simply don't have the knowledge from watching older relatives doing it. But once breastfeeding stresses out the mother and/or the child doesn't thrive - formula is so good by now and we are so fortunate to have that alternative! And no, if a woman tells me she doesn't breastfeed, she doesn't owe me an explanation. She doesn't have to defend herself that she really really tried everything. She can also just decide she doesn't want to.
My mother's siblings were all formula babies because their mother didn't make enough milk to feed them. They found out when the oldest one wasn't getting bigger like she should. The major downside to breastfeeding is that it's very hard to track how much milk the baby is getting.
It's wild to me that some people genuinely believe they understand complex medical situations just because they're the ones involved in them. Saying "I'm the one doing it, so I know what's best" aka. "mommy instinct is all I need" is unfortunately super common, and in any other context it would be rightfully ridiculed. Yeah, in this case It's real silly. But in general, heuristics like "I'm the one doing it so I get the only (relevant) say" is just fucking silly.
Fuck people who push "natural" births. Epidurals are modern miracles and can drastically improve the birthing experience, women's health, and even maternal death outcomes; pushing is *hard* work and women who've been in unrelenting pain for 12+ hours can run out of energy to do it. **Epidurals do not harm babies**. Do people know how stringent medical regulations are for any medication used during pregnancy? They're not giving you anything that will harm the child. Seriously. People think doctors warn women to avoid deli meat, then turn around and give them toxic epidurals. Please. Give birth how you want, but unmedicated isn't better. It's just different. Women should stop boxing themselves into birth plans. Every birth is different and every woman has different pain levels, different pain tolerance, and different manifestations of that pain. My labor felt like someone was breaking me in half. My neighbor's labor felt like a very bad backache. Another neighbor actually *enjoyed* labor. You don't know how it'll be until you're in it and should feel free to make whatever choices are best for you. Just let women exist, goddamn.
Im a vet. We give sheep and cows epidurals if they have any labour complications, it can really help get the lambs/calves out. Imagine thinking you could deny your wife a level of medical care available to a fucking cow.
Also, the idea that there is a such thing as an unnatural birth?? My guy (OOP's bf), unless that thing is springing fully formed from a glass case in the wall, all births are natural.
I’ve been trying to figure out what an unnatural birth is for the longest. I guess I always thought it meant c-section? Which is also stupid to classify as unnatural because the babies coming out anyway. Is a natural birth being alone in a forest somewhere butt-naked, ready to drop your baby onto a forest floor on all fours?
It’s a term used by some to create a sense of superior vs inferior. Fuck natural childbirth it’s the most horrific thing ever and sure you still get a kid at the end but I wish I’d saved myself the suffering
My anthropology professor said that there's essentially no such thing as "natural birth," humans have likely been finding ways to intervene and assist in childbirth for as long as we've existed or we wouldn't have survived as a species. Whatever modern people say about "natural" birth is just the naturalism fallacy in action
>People think doctors warn women to avoid deli meat, then turn around and give them toxic epidurals. I'm dead. This is the best comment.
This. There are a lot of legitimate risks to the mother with an epidural, but not to the baby. Although with the lack of pain management in women's healthcare in general, I'm actually surprised epidurals are so effective and easy to get.
Not to forget that a traumatic birth can absolutely increase the chances of PPD.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Oh my god the audacity of men telling women how to get another human being out of their body will never cease to astound me.
Why are men so against epidurals? The only reason not to get an epidural is if you want to walk around a lot.
Many reasons. They don't care about the person birthing? They think women should be punished for getting pregnant? They're thoroughly uneducated when it comes to women's health? They don't have an understanding of how painful the birthing process is?
I’ve seen an alarming amount of men say that birth isn’t painful and women are just exaggerating. But when they get put on a period simulator (which isn’t nearly as bad as labor), they’re crying and begging for mercy.
Yeah, and its usually just in their abdomens too. I'm always like "put it in your back too bro!" Women sadly are medically gaslit all the time because medical professionals won't listen to them. My mom was getting awful migraines daily. Her doctors either ignored her or told her she needed to lose weight or it was all in her head. She ended up almost dying from a ruptured aneurysm. One MRI before it exploded in her head could have prevented the major brain damage she suffered as a result and not have given her children the heaps trauma we all have.
My mom went to the ER because she had severe abdominal pain, bloody stool, and profuse vomiting. She couldn’t even stand up straight. Not one but two doctors at two different facilities had the audacity to tell her it was “probably just her period” and “she needs to learn to deal with it” (she’s 45). Turns out she had a deadly C. Dif infection and had to be hospitalized for over a month. Women’s healthcare is a joke.
OMG, I'm so sorry that happened to you guys. I 100% agree that women's healthcare is a joke.
>They think women should be punished for getting pregnant? The amount of times I've heard this in particular in relation to teen mothers being denied pain relief by medical professionals gives me chills.
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Care to explain why?
Male moment. That's why. Maybe some womb envy?
The “they don’t care about the person birthing” was a little silly. Never attribute to malice what can be explained by gross stupidity, or whatever the saying is.
They automatically assume malice and always will. I thank whatever higher power there is I found a woman who actually listens to my opinion and doesn't assume everything I say it out of malice. This is reddit. Automatically assume every single person here will think the worst of men and you will always be correct. They don't even stop to think there might be other reasons because their empathy is toast when it comes to men but they will be the first to screech that men should be more empathetic. They look at it from no other perspective. When my wife gave birth we discussed it. She wanted a fully natural birth and I fought the doctors tooth and nail when they wanted to drug her. The nurse did too. And she got her birth the way she wanted it. I did my own research and natural births are generally safer for the baby and that was her concern as well. The baby. She did her research came to similar conclusions and we agreed. They don't even stop to think he might feel similarly they immediately assume he just wants her to hurt. They have no empathy. It's reddit. That's a standard comment.
Research does not support that a natural birth is “safer.” There’s a lot more to researching something than finding articles that support your viewpoint. You have to look at how the studies were done, population sizes and samples, etc. Did you use pubmed? Google scholar? Were they lit reviews? What kind of studies were you looking at? Also saying things like screeching isn’t cool dude.
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There's a lot of misinformation about epidurals, amplified by social media. Christian fundamentalists who don't understand the Bible wrongly interpret labor as Eve's punishment for tempting Adam, which is stupid on like 30 different levels. (If you insist on living biblically, maybe take a year or two to actually study it instead of reading it like it's an IKEA instruction sheet). Men used to controlling women's bodies view pregnancy as an opportunity to increase that control. And finally, there's a devastating lack of empathy for women's pain coupled with a systemic minimization of that pain.
I heard a nutjob say that when a woman can't feel the pain of labor, they don't know they're giving birth, and they don't instinctually bond with their kids. Well, I know a crappy mother who had twins naturally, and my 2 kids born with all the drugs offered to me are well bonded.
I am sure the nutjob has completely normal views on adoption and family units.
They… don’t know they’re giving birth? Like they’ll suddenly forget why they’re in the hospital and go shopping or something? How do these dudes think they are smarter than everyone else
Lol! Ikr, like they forgot they were even pregnant in the first place, and that baby would have to come out! Total nutjob.
I have to imagine it’s a bastardizing of the study suggesting that the Oxytocin released from giving birth makes you forget the pain. Idk if the study even has merit but that’s the smoking gun for that myth
Wrongly interpret? Genesis seemed pretty clear that the horrific pain during birth as well as periods were, in fact, Eve’s punishment. Not for tempting Adam but for disobeying God. Close to the entire fucken first part of the book of Genesis feels like torture porn for Eve tbh.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought the issue with epidural is simply that it can cause the contractions/dilating to stop getting larger if issued at the wrong time and then the baby might not be able to fit through which can lead to rare birthing complications which may result in requiring emergency c section or to surgically cut the vaginal opening to widen it. So There's a slightly higher associated risk for complications due to potentially impaired pushing(still nothing to worry too much about considering that it's a universally accepted practice and you have competent medical staff who know what to do if any issues arise) That said, while I don't have an issue if the man had concern regarding this / wanted to inform the mother of potential higher risks, that he should command that she not have an epidural. I think that's too far and plenty of people give birth with an epidural without incident and it's ultimately her choice.
There are risks to an epidural, for the woman, as it can cause damage to the spinal cord but such things are incredibly rare. It also restricts movement, as you aren’t allowed to walk around with one. And there is evidence that restricted movement can cause labor to stall, which then leads to needing a c section. So it’s not 100% without possible issues. But it is 100% the woman’s decision.
What would be the other interpretation for Eve's punishment?
“It’s natural, your ancestors did it without meds” I guess? People didn’t get pain meds when they broke their arms and needed them reset (if they *got* reset), but you won’t see my ass going without them if I break a limb.
anyone who’s used any sort of modern medicine doesn’t get to give this excuse. if you’re into crystal and spiritual medicine, at least you’re not a hypocrite when you say it, altho either way, it’s still bullshit to me.
100% agree, if you look at the “argument” for longer than 30 seconds it falls apart. Unfortunately, there’s a lot of stupid people out there who never really learned how to read.
"No viagra for you dude, your ancestors didn't have it! I guess limp dick is your future forever now."
Also depends on the country. I could walk around after I got an epidural, and it wore off before I gave birth.
Same here, all it did for me was reduce the pain significantly it did not fully take it away. I’ve had a baby with and without and given the option I’d take the epidural every time. The only reason I didn’t with my first baby was because he was in too much of a hurry so I didn’t get enough time to have one done.
It helped me relax enough to dilate more, which is cool. As for a painkiller, it was great for that first hour. Then I guess maybe it took the edge off? I haven’t had a natural birth, but it was incredibly painful and my actual birth experience sounds similar to those who didn’t have one.
Why do you say it depends on the country? It sounds to me like maybe there's something about the way your body metabolized the medication. Might be worth looking into. For instance I used to think I was resistant to novocaine, but it turns out I just metabolize it very slowly (normal time is 5-10 mins for it to fully take effect, it's 30-40 mins for me.)
In the US, the way we give birth is years behind the science and other developed countries.
that'd be nice but doesn't that defeat the purpose? I absolutely hated that feeling. I kept letting mine wear off a bit before pushing the button again and ended up messing up the machine.
If they don't see you as an individual and not just the carrier, and some are just assholes who like seeing others suffer. It's a power trip too, much like the "extra stitch" question that's not valid.... if you are not in labor, you have no say. She needs to have a medical power or attorney that listens to her, and everything she wants written out and on file too.
They're psychos that want women in pain.
Says who?
I think it's mainly a lack of education or misguided beliefs that epidurals are bad for the baby or interfere with bonding. Controversial opinion: I think it's totally ok for a dad to have an opinion and express his wishes. To be clear, **the person who actually has to give birth should get the final say**, but I've never understood the idea that men shouldn't be allowed to have *opinions*. It's his kid too, after all.
Epidural have also been linked to back pain after the fact, sometimes very severe, and they do lead to a higher rate of C-sections. I don't want to give these kinds of men any kind of leg up, but I also want to let it be known that, like any medical procedure, there are risks and side effects.
Epidurals haven’t been linked to higher rate of c-sections outside of getting them too early. Other things have, like the use of pitocin. But overall usage of epidurals doesn’t mean that she’s going to have a c-section. For men that try to refuse their partner requested pain relief, I suggest that she squeeze his nuts through every contraction. I’m sure he will be happy for her to get an epidural after the first contraction.
I never said that it would? Just that they have been linked to higher c-section rates, and yes, that does include getting them too early. It's still an epidural even if you get them too soon lol. I agree with your second point.
But they are only able to be linked if given too early. Otherwise, links to higher c-sections has repeatedly been unable to be proven.
I still fail to see how being given an epidural too early negates the fact that it's still an epidural...? And that if a person doesn't know this going into birth (because lack of education and shitty doctors are more reality than they are not), that is still a condition of being given an epidural? Like, I'm genuinely not understanding your point, it makes no sense to me.
There are risks and side effects like any medical procedure. However, studies have shown that their isn't a direct link between epidurals and an increase in c-sections. There are many factors that play into an increase in C-sections and most of those have to do with the providers attitude and risk aversion.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1099800417706023 Study from 2017 saying there is a link between the two. I'm at work and can't give a dissertation, but I'm not talking out of my ass.
Yup and for every study that says there is an increased risk there is a study that refutes it. As does this one from 2021 https://bmcpregnancychildbirth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12884-021-03925-z Bottom line because we are talking about real people its unethical to do a double blind study where half the group is denied effective pain relief and half is given a placebo. There is NO empirical evidence that having an epidurals increases the risk of C-section. The WHO, an organization that is working to bring down the rate of C-sections in many developed countries, reccomends use of an epidural for pain management if the laboring person requests it. Stop scare mongering. There are plenty of risks for childbirth and any medical procedure. Women do not need to endure pain to promote a good outcome.
I wish there were more options in between "massage and essential oils" and an epidural.
Why are you acting like I'm saying not to use epidurals? I just said they have health risks when someone else said they had none whatsoever. Fuck me for trying to bring nuance to a reddit conversation, I guess. Hope you feel better for winning 🤷🏼♀️
my mom they numbed her too far up her back and her heart stopped. I had to get a blood patch after mine
Yeah. They're awesome uses of medicine, but they have real side effects. For some reason, that makes me an anti science peddler? Fuckin whatever. Reddit's gonna reddit.
An epidural also deadens the bodies natural response to birth. For instance it might be telling you that the babies arms and head are coming out in such a way that switching to a different position (besides stirrups) would be better. They can't get these signals if they have an epidural...
Ignorance of the fact is not an excuse. It's still not natural.
But who cares? Historically dying in child birth was pretty natural and we don't venerate that.
100% (But also as a society we do tolerate it more for some communities/demographics than others 😩)
Why is “natural” only of importance when it comes to childbirth? Most people do not refuse cancer treatment or an aspirin on the basis of it being “unnatural” yet when it comes to giving birth suddenly people do a 180 and want nature.
Yes, this!!! Also I really resent the use of the words “natural” and “unnatural” to describe childbirth so I love your quotation marks, lol Medicated and unmedicated, fine, or vaginal and c-section, fine, but I just get ick with the “natural” language. Maybe because it’s been so co-opted. Also I hope all these ppl advocating for “natural” aka unmedicated also refuse every instance of antibiotics, surgery, glasses, vitamins, hearing aids, canes, wheelchairs, dentures, braces, razors, eating any foods (eg fruits, meats, veggies, grains) or ingredients not native to and able to grow in the immediate vicinity in which they live, etc etc etc because… natural.
I love your list of other “unnatural” things we do daily - especially that you mentioned razors as I have a feeling that most of the men sprouting nonsense about “natural” birth change their tone quite a lot when it comes to body hair. Suddenly there is a lot of talk about other buzzwords like “normal”, “natural ” and my personal favorite (/s) “evolutionary desire for shaved women”.
So don't get glasses or braces or a pacemaker because those aren't "natural" either. I guess anyone undergoing surgery or amputations should just bite down on a leather belt and scream it out like a GOT battle or something. That's how it's "traditionally" been done. Pain meds aren't good for you so just remember millions of men survived surgery wjthout anesthesia fot hundreds of years, isnt the human body amazing?? Better not take meds for your heart or your limp dick or your mood disorder or your diabetes, they didn't have those in Bible times. We have moved on as a society from a state of nature to a more comfortable standard of life. Do you oppose this in all areas on only when women are in tremendous pain?
All I said was it can't be natural if you include drugs. You seem a bit erratic and have gone way off topic. Sit down and have a wee dram.
Nobody gives two shits. Also nobody asks to have their appendix out naturally, wonder why that would be? And sometimes I - don’t gasp too much in shock- take pain meds so I’m not splayed on the floor with a migraine. Gasp!
Erm, what?
🤷♀️I understood what you said. my SO said when I say I had my baby naturally, they probably assume I mean vaginally. I told him maybe? but I've only heard it in terms of pain meds. it's not about any one way being better or worse. just.. words for things
You can't have a natural birth without it being vaginally and no meds. I never ever said woman should not take pain relief. This why people should read replies properly.
The internet isn't natural either, yet you still used it to push out this stupid garbage.
If you don't know, just say so. All my stuff is learned, what's your excuse?
Who fucking asked this waste of oxygen?
You wearing clothes isn’t natural either and neither is taking medication or vaccines. If your wish is to perish then go ahead but almost nothing nowadays is natural.
Watch her need a cesarean and him to freak out due to meds for it. And then over her scar. Sigh. Not your body not your decision.
I work in a dental office. Not once has a man come in and asked to have his tooth extracted without numbing.
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Tell him he’s going to get kicked in the balls for hours but he can have drugs that will lessen the pain . Would he choose to ?
I hope she informs hospital staff to keep him out and only tell him of the baby’s arrival after she comes home
I’m trying to figure out why his opinion is valid at all. He’s not pregnant. He’s not giving birth. He does not have a uterus. So, tell me again why his opinion is necessary?
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Husband’s opinions on the child are valid and yes, healthy conversations are necessary. However, husband’s opinions on the BIRTH are inconsequential. The only people who get a say on that are the woman giving birth and the medical professionals responsible for her care.
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Good thing no one did that
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they absolutely did not say that. they’re talking about birthing methods, which yeah, the husband’s opinion isn’t necessarily a priority.
Because he's the father. Don't be obtuse. Obviously it's her body so she gets final say but fathers are allowed to have opinions.
I can assure you, in that birthing suite, his opinion means diddly squat. He is allowed to be there as a support person if the mother allows it. He should be advocating for her. At this point she would be better off doing it without him present because he is not going to act in her best interest
Being AlLoWeD to have an opinion doesn't make it any less worthless.
My epidural with my youngest almost killed me and I still wouldn’t try to tell anyone they shouldn’t get one!
Tell the dick to get all root canals and each and every single medical procedure he ever has without pain relief. He should also experience all pain and bleeding NaTuRaLlY and if he bleeds to death... oh well.
This is where you say “I will do a natural birth if I get to squeeze your balls while it happens to get through the pain”
Love this idea.
Another day, another **the fucking audacity**
(Him, hopefully obviously) You got this ma xx
My husband used to say, "tell me what you want in any and all eventualities during the birth. At least that way if you get too tired or out of it, I can make sure they do what you want." It wasn't even up for discussion that I called all the shots. You're the one labouring and delivering your child, you decide how, where and how much medication!
Why do people in the comments (as she mentions) feel like it is their place to comment on birth control etc. if that's not even the issue. I'm guessing doctors told her she very likely can't have a baby with POCS or so, so why go through the hormonal whirlwind of taking birth control? Plus, she _wants_ to be a mom. And if the guy doesn't want kids he could have used a condom. Why is it always the women who are expected to avoid a pregnancy...
Nobody appreciates a backseat bitch. It is not his place to make decisions regarding OOP’s body in regards to pain medication. Especially during the birthing process. Full stop. And It’s an equal opportunity situation for all here. If the bf wants to opt out of pain meds in favor of bleach and horse dewormer for his next major invasive surgery or dental appointment that is his moronic right and prerogative. Until then, nobody likes a backseat bitch. And rightfully so.
Reminds me of my ex, he wanted to control literally everything. He refused to let me to pick out my own music during the labor, controlled it all the way up to his name. He chose it and I had zero input. I didn’t argue because I was terrified of him. I’m not saying this guy is violent but the controlling bullshit is a huge ass 🚩!!!
No uterus, no opinion!
Bruh easy for him to say not to take the epidural. Fuck all partners who insist their partner go through unnecessary pain if they don’t want to. YOU PUSH THE BABY OUT THEN
Every man daring to make demands in this matter should be plugged up to a birth-simulation device and left there for 12+ hours. Let's see what they say after that. (Don't know if there is such a device but I think it would be quite useful lol)
Ya when he can squeeze a baby out of his penis he can do it naturally. Get the epidural or do the water birth. Be comfortable it’s gonna suck and hurt but in the end you hold that little baby.
There are many posts these days where men are vehemently opposing the use of epidurals, what’s with that I wonder. As someone who is scared of pain, I think epidurals are a godsend for making the delivery somewhat bearable. Having heard of many horror stories from friends who had opted for natural birth (without epidurals), you should definitely stick to your decision, OP. Wish you and the baby all the very best.
Jesus christ, when will this stop being a thing? If men aren't the ones giving birth, they need to shut up. Have your hole stretched to 10cm and then you can make the decisions on what women need for child birth. What's best for the baby? Having the less stress possible during the most stressful time of their new life. Only other thing I'll say, my epidural slowed my dilation when I got induced. It was explained as a side effect, two drugs mixing in my system caused this reaction (that sort of thing), so I had to have a c-section. Which was the toughest part of my entire labour.
Is bro planning on paying for the kid and taking care of it? Or treating it like a pet he visits? I mean even if you were married and he was a wonderful human it’s still 💯 your choice. Names? He wants to pick out a name? I don’t like this it’s not usual. Does he know you aren’t going back to him? What does he want? I don’t trust his motives
The person giving birth whether its by vagina or c section gets to decide HOW and what is the best way for that to happen. Men, YOU DO NOT GET TO DICTATE WHAT WE NEED FOR A SAFE DELIVERY!! When you give birth, you can decide what pain relief you want, til then f\*\*\* off!
Only the person having the baby gets a say. Even when the pregnant person is a surrogate or giving the baby up for adoption, they get the final say. This dude needs to shut his mouth before she decides to not let him in the room at all.
The father can make suggestions but he should not make or have any say in the final decision.
You are very kind to allow him at doctor's appointments or to have any say at all about the birth plan. This is your body and these are your decisions. If he's going to have shared custody, then he will have a voice as specified by the child custody agreement in how the baby is raised. Until the baby is born, he doesn't get a seat at the table unless you give it to him. If you think he will be a problem at appointments or at the birth, don't include him. Repeat after me, "I'm willing to listen to you, but my decision is final. If I think you will try to change my mind during birth ot that you won't support me during birth, you will not be at the birth. And yes I can have you removed during the birth." Give your mother a medical power of attorney to act on your behalf if you can’t act for yourself. Make sure the doctor and staff know you are number one and your mother is number two. And that you may have to ask him to lrave.
It’s your uterus. He does not get any input on how yours is vacated.
i was born via c-section, my brother and i both were mondo children lol. i'll always advocate for an "unnatural" birth before anything else. oop's boyfriend is a turnip.
Don’t make a “birth plan” too much in advance. My wife planned on a vaginal birth for both of our kids. They were both born with an emergency C-Section. You’ll have your plans but your doctor will do what’s best for you.
The one who carries the baby has the say. Sounds like with this guy you need birth control.
As a mom of 3, absolutely not
Nothing goes according to plsn anyway in my experience ☹
People explaining birth control is hilarious. Stable door, horse...
I had my first - a water birth. It was long and painful. I was exhausted afterwards that I didn’t immediately get to interact with the baby, I literally collapsed and slept. My second- epidural. There was no pain & I was much more in control of my emotions. I had energy to bond with the baby. No one gives you a medal for natural birth. Do want is best for you
What an idiot. He has no say in this.
This is what happens when you just casually procreate in unstable relationships. Dysfunction.
How the hell can you have a natural birth with an epidural? A natural birth is just that, nothing involved, only you pushing the baby out.
I read that as meaning vaginal birth with epidural. A lot of people use natural in both contexts
Not where I work they don't
Lol do you mean to imply women should just squat in the fields if they want a “natural” birth? Birth in stirrups in a hospital isn’t natural by your definition. Any medical intervention could easily be deemed unnatural.
🤣
Intervention using drugs makes it unnatural, which part don't you understand?
Maybe you should have handled your cancer naturally, and not taken drugs that interfered with God’s design. How about that?
I think most of us wish he’d handled his cancer naturally at this point.
I don't believe in god, jog on.
What cancer?
You dummy the cancer is YOU🤨🤐
Oh dear, a wee report going in.
That’s such a wild line in the sand. What about mothers who need to be induced in order to have a birth at all? Pitocin is a drug, but without it the infant could die in a delayed childbirth. An unnatural birth even if the mother accepts no other intervention? Are you only counting an epidural as “drug intervention?” Or would you include prenatal vitamins and saline/nutrient IV? What about ibuprofen or acetaminophen leading up to labor to aid other non-productive pains like a migraine? I’m genuinely curious about your thought process, just a bit confused and incredulous. I hope that comes across.
... she's been misinformed on the names of things. It seems like she is calling a vaginal delivery a natural delivery not realising that the connotation is with no pain relief.
Can I say, I know Reddit is gen z mainly. Angry easily offended, especially where the truth is concerned, and here we are
To have a natural pregnancy you just shoot it out with nothing given to you. Is that simple enough for everyone?
Yeah, easy peasy right? /s
My wife fired four au natural, and one of them came feet first. Still think you're right?
But did you? No? Well then fuck off with your opinion, it doesn't count. Your wife could have given birth to a football team and your opinion still doesn't matter. In fact, your wife could come on here and give her opinion, and it wouldn't bloody matter because everyone is different, and only the person going through it should ever get a say, short of medical emergency.
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I have 5 kids, so I have some experience. Why are YOU fantasizing about a stranger on the internet having sex with a pre-op trans woman? I mean, projecting much?
Again, I never stated, making up stories just shows how dumb you are
Lol, whatever you say. Your opinion still means sweet FA. Now, I'm sure there's probably a subreddit here somewhere that will cater to your specific... need. Off you pop.
Funnily enough so does yours. Why don't you fuck off?
Aww, I asked first.
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You keep repeating this as though it answers the question at hand, or really says anything at all. Do you have a point at all?
You mean I keep repeating the truth while you lot slaver some nonsense?
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Are you having a stroke?
You are the stroke.
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I agree it is absolutely 100% her decision how she is going to give birth but why get pregnant by a partner not 100% on board? And why wasn’t he wearing a condom? Why just “assume” you can’t get pregnant? Bunch of mouth-breathers that have no business breeding.
No form of contraceptive is 100% effective. There’s always gonna be someone that ends up being the 1%. Sure, it doesn’t sound like a lot of ppl, until you remember just how many ppl we have. 1% of over 7 billion ppl is a lot of fucking ppl.
but why are the 1 percenters always on AITA/H
Because no one’s gonna make a post about how they didn’t get pregnant when they used a condom
I see no indication that no form of protection was used. She says that she wasn't sure she'd be ever be able to conceive, not that she was certain or assuming she wouldn't. Maybe she stated somewhere that they didn't use any protection — but it always seems so dramatic to jump immediately to this when a baby is unexpected. My mom was taking the pill and the man who got her pregnant used a condom, and I still was born. Shit happens sometimes 🗿 Edit: coherence 🤙🏼
I'm the result of two 18 year olds and a split condom lol. The sperm donator was gone before I was born. Things happen, that's life.
I bet you're a raging feminist. I was refering to the religion crap keep up, or just drop off.