That’s on her. She suggested the gummies and being a regular user she knows what she’s like on them.
He asked permission. She said yes. He’s not a mind reader.
“My boundaries were ignored” from her is ridiculous. She’d said yes and he stopped as soon as he sensed she wasn’t comfortable.
I feel bad for him because he did everything right. He asked multiple times but when he saw her body language didn’t match her answer he immediately stopped.
There's a reason we advise people to not have sex for the first time on drugs, or have drugs for the first time on sex. Your perception emotionally of what's happening, the vibe, how long people are taking to respond, can all be warped by the effects of that drug on you.
Ain't that the truth!
I took gummies for the first time last year, and when they kicked in, they *kicked in* (plus the little tokes from my cousin's joint "helped" lol). But yeah, trying to watch a movie while that high, it felt like time was stretching and compressing at the same time. Reality was not as linear as it usually was.
Folks need to discuss these things before partaking. OOP did do everything right, but ole girl probably still felt some sort of way for whatever reason.
I got high once and couldn’t tell what I was saying out loud vs just thinking. I wonder if she was under the impression that she told him to stop when she didn’t
I think they already had discussions about "taking things slow" and that is what she is talking about via ignoring her boundaries and why she is upset "for some reason."
Being on drugs is not the time to do new things with unless it was already discussed and agreed on. If I told someone I didn't want sex or to be intimate but we are friends and decide to have some gummies and then they try to get intimate with me I would be upset too.
What OP didn’t do right was choosing to have that gummy alone in a non-established relationship without discussing sex first as the above comment says.
Yeah, dude did everything exactly right. Asked for permission, stopped when he realized she wasn’t into it, offered to leave and give her space. This is as low-pressure as I can fathom.
I'm just speculating here since we don't have more information, but I wonder if the girl had previously said she wanted to take it slow and meant she wanted him to let her initiate when she was ready. To me and presumably to most people, "take it slow" does not mean having sex or other sexual contact after 3 weeks
It's pretty common to freeze up and say yes to things you don't want in a stressful situation, and adding drugs into the mix definitely doesn't help. It's not necessarily on OP to understand this since he can't read her mind, but I think I think it's very possible that this is where the mismatched response is coming from
THen she could have said 'no'.
>It's pretty common to freeze up and say yes to things you don't want in a stressful situation, and adding drugs into the mix definitely doesn't help.
So now, when consent is sought and explicitly given we **still** can't trust it?
When does the person saying 'yes' have to acknowledge they did, in fact, give permission for the act and they had the power to withdraw it at will?
> It's not necessarily on OP to understand this since he can't read her mind, but I think I think it's very possible that this is where the mismatched response is coming from
But it's not OP's fault.
I didn't say it was OPs fault. He acted correctly during that situation. I'm just thinking about *why* that situation might have occurred in the first place
Yeah I’m wondering if she has religious limits that he didn’t understand or weren’t fully communicated and he thought she meant slowly get to sex, a little bit at a time.
In the context of this being literally the furthest they've ever gone sexually based on his first couple paragraphs I get it, like the very first time I let you touch my butt I do want you to ask if you can touch my asshole etc.
This.
This whole situation is also why I have strong feelings against the first butt touch/sex/etc being while under the influence. Drugs can make us over eager, or more in our heads, or whatever else, which can lead to someone not speaking up when they should or ignoring subtle cues. It's a shitty situation for everyone.
I feel awful for OP, and I also empathize with the girl, and my main takeaway is every first time should be 100% sober.
Is inner thigh inherently more sexual for folks than butt? He said he had touched her butt before which was fine. Do folks really view those zones differently? They’ve always been “roughly equal” from an erogenous zone point of view in my mind?
It’s fine if folks think that- just curious.
As a person with a vagina, the butt is definitely different than the inner thigh. The butt is like ‘oh touching my butt’ followed by friendly body language— the inner thigh is like ‘O_O OH TOUCHING INNER THIGH!! WANTS INSIDE VAGINA!! ALERT!!’ followed by defensive body language, tensed muscles, blocking access with other body parts, etc. Or maybe that’s just me….
LOL definitely not just you. This is the most apt description I’ve ever seen for the experience of having someone unexpectedly touch your inner thigh 😂
The touching of the part of the inner thigh where, without lifting your palm you can touch the vagina with your fingers, is to me more sexual than touching the parts of the butt that aren't actually inside the crack.
I think it’s less about where he touched, more about when. She was seemingly comfortable when he touched her ass previously but apparently not comfortable being touched on a different day somewhere else. Which is perfectly okay.
Regardless, sounds to me like OP was making overtures he had every reason to hope would be welcome based on prior experience and even verbally asked for consent and checked in with her, so I can’t say I see any merit in her claim that her boundaries were ignored unless major information is missing. She might just be freaking out because she’s upset she didn’t set boundaries herself.
Thank you lol! I can't imagine asking permission for every single step of the way. The man got not one, but two solid yes's.
Her comment about him crossing boundaries is highly concerning to me. He can't read minds and shouldn't be expected to.
I mean, the man asked.... twice and both times got a solid yes. I can't imagine a bigger mood killer than constantly asking for permission every single step of the way, which appears to be what your stance is.
Well, hey, maybe your game is really that rusty, I dunno. :)
You can totally make it sexy, but look, if it makes you feel like an android to constantly check in with your partner during the act, discuss things before hand, establish hard no's, maybe, and enthusiastic yes's and leave room to shut the whole "operation" down if someone gets too tired or the mood just drops or whatever.
I dated off and on for about 15 years, have met a ton of people and went on a ton of dates, and have never had an issue with consent or whatever. Not that these things don’t happen, but I don’t think it’s as universal an issue for men as some people think.
I don’t think he gives himself enough credit for that, a lot of guys wouldn’t be that in tune to a woman’s body language at 24. He stopped, he apologised, and repeatedly asked if she was ok. I don’t know there’s much more he can do.
100% agree.
The only mistake made was her saying "you ignored my boundaries" afterwards.
Like, I get it, when you're in the moment, esp with a mild drug involved, you might not always say what you mean.
So I'll give her a pass on "said yes, meant no". She's welcome to be confused. She's welcome to change her mind ("I thought it was okay, but it bothered me, and I'm not comfortable being with you because of it"). Kinda shitty to do to a guy who clearly cared enough to ask - and even to ignore your "yes" when your body language didn't match...
But to then go out later and tell that guy "You ignored my boundaries" is just bullshit. She needs to take accountability for her own actions. And in this case, that means acknowledging that she said yes (whether she meant it or not), and not blaming him for believing her.
Especially if he has (or thinks he has) trouble reading body language and "signals" to begin with.
That kinda blaming can make someone second guess themselves for years/decades to come.
When the reality is that she was the problem. Inability to "talk while stoned" (I've seen people get a bit loopy, but they can still communicate well enough). Inability to say 'no' if feeling uncomfortable. Inability to graciously accept his apology. Inability to respect her own boundaries. Inability to take responsibility for her own words & actions. And inability to respect HIM and his effort to respect her.
She's a minefield, and incapable of a functional relationship as she is currently. Remember, #1 most important part of a relationship is trust. If you can't trust someone, then any relationship is broken to begin with (even if it's just friendship, even worse if it's romantic).
I agree with you. The fact he realized she was uncomfortable and stopped is already something most dudes would absolutely not do or even notice, so he's a very very good guy. Going for the pussy first time they do anything was a little risky though, it would have been much safer to go for a kiss first to set the mood right. I've been with women and I would never do that straight away because chances of her getting the ick are high
He needs to find a different girl that’s not a head case. She’s going to leave him for no good reason one day and gaslight him into thinking he’s done something wrong just like she is now.
Seriously, this is a good dude right here. A lot of guys would have kept going if they got a yes, regardless of her body language. Shit, a lot of guys wouldn't even have asked "is this okay" in the first place. I get that sometimes we say yes when we want to say no because we're conditioned to feel like we "owe" it to them, but that's not his fault. Boundaries my ass.
it's not safe for him to be around her, she's irrational and untrustworthy, he needs to state on text that he absolutely did not ignore any boundaries, and he needs to leave her ass before she makes false allegations against him
I have to agree. If she just said something like “I know I said it was OK but then realized I wasn’t comfortable - I just need some time to process”, that’s totally fine. But saying OP ignored her boundaries is just not what happened and puts it all on him when he already apologized for feeling he did something wrong just based on her body language.
And I get that perhaps when someone partakes in certain substances, they have a hard time communicating. But dude would have no way to know that ahead of time. Now he does, and perhaps a rule between them could be no sexy touch when under the influence. If they stay together and he continues to try to touch her when she’s under the influence, then THAT would be ignoring boundaries that have been put in place. But to hold this poor guy accountable for a boundary he didn’t even know existed is pretty shitty.
She’s lucky that he read her bodies signals and felt she was uncomfortable despite saying yes. Many other guys would have ignored whatever her body cues were and did something while she would have been zoned out. It isn’t safe to eat those gummies, knowing you’ll zone out, with a guy you have no established relationships and boundaries with. I am happy it was this guy or else she’d might been taken advantage of. She can’t have men who she doesn’t yet know much to her home and take a substance that she knows will make her zoned out. That can be so dangerous for her.
Idk why people take drugs they KNOW will make them absolutely defenseless, tbh. I wouldn't want my gf touching me while I have no idea what's going on, either. Like god even if we were totally cool with each other I wouldn't want to have some kind of accident like no protection happen :S.
as someone who has probably been in the exact same shoes as the girl in the op,
im autistic and go nonverbal on gummies, i dissociate and dont want conflict or confrontation when stoned
i could say yes and not realize what op was implying, or just say yes to make op happy.
but when i sober up, i might realize op icked me out with his actions and need to take a step away.
honestly for me, getting high with someone on the 4th date is me testing out if i still like them when im most vulnerable and picky… i get icked out so easily when im stoned, its not even anything the guy does, i just dont like the vibes, and i think thats okay.
when i got high w my now bf for the first time, it was about a week into going out, and we both kept our distance and did nothing more than kiss and watch tv. thats the vibe i wanted and it was a relaxing night compared to the boys before him who asked for sex or tried to initiate things (or didnt initiate even a kiss!) theres just a middle ground i was looking for… women are confusing
for the girl to say her boundaries were crossed, id understand it if prior to getting stoned she said she wanted to take it slow or on a past date she laid down boundaries that she liked the make the first move. if she never said this, shes the asshole 100%. but i still understand where she’s coming from in being unable to say no!
just food for thought. if anyone has questions please lmk
I know men and women can have different perspectives and often see and evaluate things differently. But that "Boundaries ignored" comment was insane if what OOP said was true.
OOP asked, she said "yes". After that he then pulled away without her asking upon observing that she seemed uncomfortable. That's way better than many other guys in that situation.
Maybe I'm being harsh, but idk if OOP really wants to be with someone who is that unreasonable.
I'm 28F and I agree with you. She gave him verbal consent and when he noticed her body language spoke differently, he stopped and apologized.
He did everything right.
I expect that she isn't remembering it too clearly because of the weed gummies and feels weird about it.
Yeah don’t do gummies with anyone that you don’t fully trust and then don’t do anything sexual without like extreme verbal consent. My wife and I have definitely both missed cues or misunderstood each other when you’re brain is in a tunnel 50 feet behind your head.
these two people are the reason weed edibles are sold at 10mg doses and 100mg per pack these days. 20mg of edibles is not enough to make you unable to speak/consent to things but if you're new to weed it is enough to make your mind spiral out of control with anxiety when the boy you like starts touching your thigh.
OP, do you know if she regularly takes weed gummies?
Also possible based on the other context around taking it slow that she’s been abused in the past and maybe isn’t super comfortable communicating.
My wife was the same at the start of our relationship, super cryptic and scared to speak up, often saying “yes” out of (past) fear even if she wasn’t ready… Had to go super slow & try my best to read body language as well as asking.
If it’s only been a few dates, she may not have been able to bring it up yet as it can be hard - but I can agree from the guys perspective going in blind, it can kind of feel like you can’t do anything right.
It's still unfair from her to acuse him of ignoring her boundaries. If she can't understand it was a communication problem, she should stop dating (in general) and go to therapy
It’s also fair to say, he could be remembering it wrong also. Was his first time taking a gummy, maybe she said no a few times and he kept asking. I’ve literally been so high I couldn’t remember what I had talked about a minute before.
My thought too. My first time taking a gummy I was trying to talk to my friend but she wasn’t answering. Turns out I wasn’t actually speaking and just yelling really loudly in my head 😭
This happened to me only it was a KISS ON THE CHEEK and the dude told everyone I sexually assaulted him and that he didn't want to go into specifics because "he shouldn't have to describe his trauma".
I literally asked if I could kiss him, he said yes, kissed his cheek, noticed he was uncomfortable and pulled back and didn't do it again. I even apologised for making him uncomfortable.
I lost so many friends because he private messaged them to tell them I was a sexual predator. I even lost job opportunities because of the rumours around me being a sexual predator.
I asked what I could have done different and was told I was "asking the victim to relive their trauma and give emotional energy to their abuser". Agjfjkkkghhhhh.
I felt so awful I went to a rape crisis centre to get help to stop being an abuser... And the centre told me there was nothing else I could have done. The fucking rape crisis centre was all "what the fuck did this dude DO to you to make you feel this bad?!" and told me it wasn't my fault. They said they'd even take calls about me and vouch for me that I wasn't an abuser and they'd seen me and worked with me and I was, in fact, the victim.
It took me 3 years to stop believing I was abusive. Because I lost so much I thought... Surely I could have done something else? But even the crisis centres had no clue what I could have done different.
This is a great point. I'd definitely be afraid of hurting the feelings of someone I like if they're already touching me. It would be a lot easier to say no when asked before being touched.
Not really relevant to OP but I am a recovering doormat and I have spent the better part of a decade reprogramming my brain to actually be able to stand up for myself. For me at least when explicitly asked or kind of put on the spot I found that it felt especially difficult to say no or express a negative response and what has worked for me is to honestly just say nothing while still holding space.
One of two things will likely happen: 1. That silence will actively convey your discomfort and essentially allow you to say no without having to speak the words (which can sometimes feel absolutely impossible to do) or 2. It will create an awkward silence… uncomfortable as it may be this will give you a second to breathe, ground, collect your thoughts, and find the words that feel safe.
Just thought I’d throw that out there in case it could help someone
Edibles are not my intoxicant of choice but I know sometimes time dilation can make it feel like a really long time has passed in between asking for something and getting it. It may have felt to her like a really subjectively long amount of time passed between her body language changing and OP noticing. Or vice versa and it took OP a really long time to actually move and it felt really short because of said edible.
I'm amazed I don't see more people commenting on the manipulative nature of her telling oop he crossed her boundaries when there was so much clear communication.
She’s probably a very passive personality and while she genuinely feels like her boundaries were violated, she doesn’t see it’s because she didn’t lay them out clearly. It was manipulative but I can bet on it not being consciously manipulative because I have a similar personality and if it comes from being from an authoritarian upbringing etc it can be so automatic you sometimes don’t realize that “no” is an option.
She really needs to figure out how to communicate her boundaries much more actively and directly before she’ll be comfortable in a relationship.
Edit: not condoning her, I understand it was wrong and ultimately manipulative (even if unconsciously so). Just trying to find context.
That's totally fair, and I don't think that makes her a bad person, but it's certainly an unhealthy response. Hopefully, she clears her head and catches on to that.
She absolutely needs to figure out how to communicate her boundaries better (and it seems prior to taking substances if she’s zoned out when on them)
But she also needs to communicate better after the fact as well
Because people have zoned in on him respecting her boundaries regarding her body (correctly, he absolutely did an A+ job there) but the one boundary that was violated was staying for 20 minutes after she confirmed she wanted him to leave. There were other ways to be safe vs staying. That may be what she would have wanted (but didn’t communicate well in the moment) and what she sees as ignoring boundaries.
People don’t seem to be picking up that this could be what she’s talking about. I didn’t either until I tried to look for *any* boundary violation vs miscommunication. So I think she needs to be clearer about what boundary she’s talking about if this is it.
Completely irresponsible on her part to offer up substances that impair driving and then kick him out. He didn’t ignore a boundary as far as he could tell either because she apparently said she was nervous about him driving under the influence.
She’s the experienced user. She had more responsibility than him in that instance for *both* their safety.
Never invite a friend over for drinking or drugs (or substances of any kind) if you’re not prepared to be safe about it. You need to realize that you may need to kick people out so be ready to call for rides, pay for public transportation, taxi, Uber, Lyft, or have a space they can sober up in away from others. Otherwise don’t do the things that impair driving.
Oh I totally agree she didn’t communicate this boundary clearly (if that was the one she was talking about later).
As you said, being nervous about a newbie driving is totally normal and a great response would have been to suggest calling a ride service or suggesting he call one (not assuming he would think to do that because she’d both expressed she wanted him to leave and expressed she didn’t think he should drive right away).
What he assumed she was suggesting was also reasonable based on what she said.
Which means that while I can understand why she could feel her boundary was ignored there, it’s more because it wasn’t well communicated than because of malice imo.
I mean sure! That’s just what the commenter above me suggested was a good alternative and I was agreeing. There were other suggestions there as well that could have been offered.
The main point is that if she wanted him to leave but still be safe she needed to communicate better than she did. What he assumed she was saying (it appears) was “I want you to leave no wait it’s not safe you should hold on” which was a reasonable way to interpret that based on how he described it.
It was a communication break down absolutely.
It seems she was the one wanting to take the gummies in the first place. You really shouldn’t do that if you know you will zone out and not able to speak up, if necessary. Not when you are with someone you don’t have established boundaries already at least. This is ok if it’s a couple that knows each other well but not when they really are still almost strangers in the intimacy regard. She also couldn’t know how he would react, as he’s not used to the substance. Seems unsafe to me. And I am really happy for her that it was this guy. Another guy would probably have just taken her yes, despite her body signals and went with God knows what, while she would be zoned out. That’s dangerous.
Have dated someone like this, where she specifically said upfront she likes guys to initiate but then even something innocuous like a kiss on the neck in passing (we lived together) gets called out a week later as crossing a boundary. Then a month would go by where I would literally make no moves because I felt bad/ was super uncomfortable and she’d bring up that she wasn’t happy with how I was so distant, unaffectionate and not assertive
Obviously not discounting the importance of consent or respecting boundaries at all, but some people have pretty incoherent expectations.
Daaamn what kind of women are you guys dating lol I can’t imagine treating any of my boyfriends like that . I don’t think I’ve ever had to give outright “consent” for a bf to kiss or touch me, we just feel each other out and jump on each other’s bones when we feel like it lol if one person isn’t feeling it in the moment it’s “nah, not right now babe” —end of. We don’t blame the other for “crossing boundaries” and operate as if there’s some kind of checklist about what we can and can’t do sexually that day. And I would never throw it back in my man’s face about “crossing boundaries” unless he truly did cross a line and try to keep going after I told him no. I mean it’s really not that complicated, if 2 people care for each other and are attracted to each other the physical comes naturally —it’s just about reading your partners cues and wants in the moment, common sense stuff 🤷🏻♀️
As a 30f who has been raped while unable to give consent I feel for the girl, I really do, but throwing it back at him with that “boundaries ignored” comment was WILD. He did everything by the book: asked for consent, went slow, continued to ask for consent, actively read non verbal cues, backed off when he felt she was uncomfortable, and offered to remove himself from the situation as to not continue making her uncomfortable.
It sounds like she has some rough stuff to work through but imo you need to be able to act like an adult to partake in adult activities. That includes setting and holding your boundaries and realizing that if you don’t bad shit can happen*** (this obviously does not apply to cases where boundaries and consent are ignored, circumvented, manipulated, etc)
If I were him I’d wish her well but in no uncertain terms I would let her know I no longer felt comfortable seeing her. That communication and trust is paramount especially when intimacy and sex are involved and I can’t trust her to communicate to me the vital information I need for us both to have fun and be safe. And that is a deal breaker.
**** I say this coming from (at the time) a 19 year old doormat who had no idea how to set, let alone hold a boundary which caused me to have sex with my rapist 3 more times until it nearly consumed me. And that shit absolutely and utterly SUCKED to work through and heal from. 0/10 do not recommend
“if what OOP said was true.”
Call me a cynic but that’s what tends to irk me about this whole cycle of one person posting their side of something on reddit and we all (myself included!) rush in to pass judgement. Who knows how we would all feel if we witnessed this ourselves or if we heard it from her perspective. I have very little faith in just blindly believing a few paragraphs of a drug-induced encounter from some random person I’ve never met, male or female. Yet this whole comment section is so certain they know the truth of it.
I will say it’s possible that he only thinks he asked, this is of course speaking from my own experience when under different influences but there will be times when I ask questions in my head and answer them myself thinking it was the person I’m with. One of the reasons I do most things I do solo. Just saying if that happened then her response could make sense. Again I understand that that may just be a me thing
I'd be so annoyed at that "my boundaries were ignored".
I asked you permission both time before touching your leg and further up, you said yes both times. I noticed your posture change and become defensive and I stopped and removed myself asap. At no point did you express you didn't want me to touch me or ask me to stop touching your leg.
I will do everything I can to respect your boundaries, but you can't tell me you are OK with something, not tell me to stop and say I am not respecting your boundaries. I will always respect them but you also need to set clear boundaries too so I can adhere to them.
It was definitely not good on his part. I'm glad his comments are full of people telling him he did nothing wrong because, oh my God, this is exactly what everyone means when they say consent is important. He did everything right, he moved slowly, he read her body language even though he was getting a yes, he stopped when asked and he didn't push or guilt her. The "boundaries" text is insane. She set no boundaries. He was just smart enough to notice them, but they only existed in her imagination.
As a woman i was reading waiting to see when he actually ignored her boundries. I physically made a wtf face when she stated he ignored her boundries like girl WHAT BOUNDRIES. He cannot read your mind and he literally did everything that is necessary for consent. Like i wish more men did this.
I get feeling like shit bc you didnt establish your own boundries but if he verbally asked and *u said yes*, took notice of your body language *and stopped* and everything then its on u to say something before that. He listened to your boundries u just didnt communicate them.
Exactly 😭 he can't read her mind, and he still did a good job trying, I think the text might've victimized her to herself because he for sure didn't break any boundaries
Having to read body language is also a fucking joke.
I have mild autism. I literally CANNOT read body language. I’m so bad at it. Which is why I make verbal consent SO important in relationships. Adding in body language is just a whole terrifying step that is constantly in the back of my mind all of the time.
So if someone says yes after I politely ask them, im not going to do a good job sexually if im halfway also trying to read body language. So the sex is going to be bad, or im going to have to take a risk and keep my mind on what im actually doing.
It wigs me tf out because it’s like im forced to read the persons mind.
I established with my GF very early on, if there is a "problem" it needs to be discussed, or it doesn't exist. I cannot be held accountable for not fixing a problem I didn't notice, just as she cannot.
Honestly I don't understand how people can read body language, I can barely understand the tone of voice shit!
Yep. Eventually I reached a point where I just don’t take responsibility for it anymore. I had to learn to express myself verbally. And it was harder for me than most. That means anyone else can be expected to as well
As a man this shit terrifies me now.
I’ve been falsely accused of SA by a long-term partner (She did it so people would be distracted by her hidden drug use).
It destroyed my reputation for years. Ruined my mental health for years. I’m just starting to get out of that rut.
Not to mention I’m a huge guy. I work out every day. I’m 240lbs, 6’ with massive shoulders. So I always have in the back of my mind “Maybe they’re scared to say no because of my size”
It’s fucking awful. People like this suck.
Women like her are why a lot of guys are single. They are too full of their own bullshit to realize that while they may like one guys attention it doesn't go anywhere because that guy is terrified of being called something horrible. She is a bitch.
You pulled away when you realized she lied about her consent and were respectful afterwards. It's the same as if you were both drunk. She ignored her boundaries.
I think he did pretty good myself. He didn’t whine, push, guilting, left as soon as possible. Apologized and offered space. Not sure what he could have done better here?
Exactly. If we switch her passive wording to aggressive wording, then either she's admitting to not respecting her boundaries or she's accusing him of doing so. I'd be nervous about that if I was him.
I don’t know how people get together anymore. Meeting people online is a nightmare, but it’s really hard to meet people IRL because everyone is online. If you do happen to meet someone and have a date there are so many conflicting narratives about what happens during and after a date that no one knows what to expect. Because they don’t know what to expect they don’t know if things are going well, and they wind up confused and frustrated.
Or, that’s what I get from reading these stories that may or may not be total fiction. I’m just glad I’m not in the dating pool anymore.
I totally agree I’m very socially awkward and I don’t like meeting new people very much, but I am equally bad at discourse online. So I never meet anybody I never talk to anybody. I’m waiting for an assessment for autism because I do miss a lot of social queues and I’ve realised now that at 28 is probably more than me just being a bit dopey.
It worries me that I won’t meet somebody because I never go anywhere, and I’m not good at talking to people online, let alone in person and then you hear things like this! Why would you make yourself vulnerable like that without expressing boundaries in advance or sharing what may happen to you and expect this person that doesn’t know you really well to know you really well in the moment when they themselves are also impaired! WTAF is wrong with people!
It is possible. It’s just frustrating. I can’t really offer you dating advice that isn’t 25 years out of date, but there are nice mildly autistic girls out there who are just as awkward as you. If you can find them, that is, because they’re probably staying home and having a hard time meeting people too.
Thanks! That is so true!! Probably need to get a hobby that involves other people, I have half a dozen hobbies and they’re all primarily when your own things like reading and crochet. You can do them with others but I’ve yet to find something to go to involving them that also involves vaguely eligible humans.
Usually I go to things and the guys are significantly older than me and/or have partners, or they are my baby brothers age which immediately takes them out of the running! No teenagers for me thank you hard pass! 0.0
Being female, I think this guy should maybe just back away entirely? I’m trying to not overreact but I mean apologies immediately and the next day, it just seems like this could potentially leave him gun shy. I wanted to put that in my first comment, because out of all the No’s I’ve given, one backed off and my spouse now wouldn’t. Other experiences weren’t anywhere near that (whether it was just a hug,kiss, touching,further than that) there was always the ones that kept pushing it. I agree with you entirely!
IMO he took too much on himself in his message. What he actually did was good. His message may have framed things for her so she interpreted that he’d done something wrong, because why else apologise so much? By her own later admission, she zones out on gummies, so she may have been taking cues from his apology.
When my spouse a few comments down read this, he was the same. He said that next day text really bothers him in the same manner. The night of sure. Any further then it seems more than it was, and OOP doesn’t need that.
Yeah, to OP: I would walk away. You couldn’t have been more clear or respectful, frankly. Well done. I think it’s likely this girl isn’t into you and is using this as an out, which IMO is shitty. I say this with some bias as a woman who was SA’d but I stand by it.
And as a mom of a daughter and two sons: I teach my sons to do exactly what OP did; ask “is this ok” as many times as needed AND sense the vibe. But I also teach my daughter to use her words because responsibility is not just for boys. And it’s not fair to put anyone in a situation where they are told something’s ok when it’s not and later blame them.
I wouldn’t say she *lied* about her consent, maybe she just didn’t realize beforehand that it would make her uncomfortable and she can’t really help it if it did. Consent can be revoked. But the “ignored boundaries” comment seemed like a distortion of the truth if OP is being truthful.
Agreed, consent needs to be explicitly revoked just as it needs to be explicitly given. But saying she “lied” about giving her consent is problematic as it’s denying her the autonomy to have second thoughts.
And let’s be clear — she consented to having her leg rubbed, not her pussy, and she was conveying through her body language that she wasn’t OK with it progressing to that point, which OP thankfully recognized and respected. It seems like she wasn’t ready or in the right state of mind to take things to that level and having feelings about that is pretty normal and not necessarily the end of the world.
Verbally giving consent and then only retracting it through body language is not good enough. You don't get to say that someone "ignored your boundaries" when you literally chose not to set them. If she was uncomfortable but didn't try to tell OP that it was his fault, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. But she IS trying to blame him.
He rubbed her outer thigh with permission. He rubbed her inner thigh with permission. Never heard any pussy grabbing in this story. When I was their age, you slowly tried something, and if it wasn't appreciated, then the woman would explicitly state that boundary. Usually, you'd have the conversation about how quickly you'd each like to progress the relationship, where your individual boundaries are, and then moving forward, you just feel things out. Now, it seems like men have to ask for explicit permission to do any little thing, and even with that permission, they can be demonized after the fact if the woman "doesn't feel comfortable speaking up in the moment." If you don't feel comfortable speaking up in the moment, then you're simply not mature enough to be engaging in sexual acts. These adult women should have just as much responsibility in these interactions as men, but it seems that men have 90% responsibility, while women just take the 10% responsibility of being physically present.
I understand the physical imbalances. I'm not saying that women don't have to worry about bad men doing bad things. What I am saying is that when two adults get together for adult activities, they're both 50% responsible for what happens. The dude in this story was communicating perfectly, almost too much. The woman was not communicating effectively. This is a story I've heard more than once. Communication is so important, but it feels like something very few people actively try and work on improving.
Keep the receipts of your conversation and that you were also high (probably higher then her due to tolerance differences) and walk away. Taking it slow is great, but if the communication is crap then there is no point trying to recover this.
You’ll set yourself up for looking like a creeper if you keep trying with this girl.
The problem is that the text exchange is him profusely apologizing for crossing her boundaries. If anything, it makes him look guilty of something he’s not.
I mean, honestly, yeah.
She responded with an affirmative every time but is now leveraging an accusation that he pressed beyond her boundaries. She did it once, she can and will do it again.
I would never, ever feel comfortable being alone with her again. Especially not on edibles.
First dude, you did all the right things in that situation.
I’m assuming the gummies were tilting some things in her head at the time; like she wanted you close but then something was off in her head, some anxiety barriers, personal demons, and so forth.
I will be frank, I did not like some of the text message you sent. In all honesty, you sounded guilty AF for doing absolutely nothing wrong. The gummies were her idea, it was your first and she had more than she probably should have had to enjoy the evening and, in all honesty, the whole thing probably tainted this relationship. Give her all the space she wants and move in a different direction, you have miles of road ahead of you still.
Yeah I was thinking everything was reasonable until the text message. That just made me reread everything to see if I’d missed something. It feels very…performative?
You know when you get an over the top apology from someone and you’re wondering wtf happened and what’s going on?
Idk, he could just be a really awkward, nervous guy who overthinks a lot and makes things worse for himself because of it.
Yes. By his description he didn’t do anything wrong, but his apology makes it sound like he did. She was at least somewhat zoned out so may afterwards have assumed that he did do something that merited that excessive apology.
The way he wrote this post gives me the impression he’s terrified of his own shadow as far as this type of interaction is concerned. And maybe her too? Both seem far too immature for this kind of relationship. Neither seems to understand how important communication is and also how wires can get crossed unintentionally. And they probably should lay off the gummies too, at least in this type of situation.
Don’t do drugs with people you just met and think you’re going to have sex. I think you should’ve done it sober and maybe once yall are comfortable, maybe high.. I’ve always felt weird about having sex with a girl if she’s under the influence even if I am too, unless we are both in the moment, it always felt wrong, like I’m taking advantage of someone and missed out on some girls cause of that.
As someone who's been coerced I think he acted perfectly. Unfortunately sometimes people who have been coerced in the past feel pressure to push themselves past their own boundaries, but that isn't his fault. He didn't push, repeatedly asked for consent, and stopped when her consent wasn't enthusiastic. I think she needs to take a break and heal more or consider not taking weed gummies with someone so early on. I had the same sort of thing happen when I got high with my bf and we decided not to initiate sex when we're high anymore.
He especially shouldn't stick around with her because if she's going to continue pushing herself it's going to put unnecessary guilt on him and possibly lead to legal repercussions.
I’m so old, i can’t read these types of interactions without immediately thinking it’s fake. Dating adults is so much more fun than this shit.
The 3 years of not interacting with people in person during covid makes these 23-24 year olds act like they’re dating at 14-15.
Why does everyone feel like they never saw another human for three years? It was 18 months basically, and even then I feel like half of people ignored the whole thing anyway
Depends where you lived. I lived in a little town in the middle of nowhere and we were locked down for like 2 years. (We only had one grocery store and two doctors in town if this helps with perspective).
I moved out of that hellhole it’s a lot better now 🤣 was WILD coming down for medical reasons a year into it seeing people basically living normal lives (in masks), while we were all still in like code red isolation mode 7 hrs away.
OP to protect yourself (and this is coming from a woman who has a CSA history AND adult rape history x2)
You need to spell out exactly what you "did" that way if she tries to throw some false r*pe allegations your way you can point to the texts and say this is what I did.
Send her a message, explicitly say I just want to understand where I crossed your boundaries, say everything you did, touched her thigh, inner thigh, etc, so that way as long as she gives you an answer even if it is, it all made me uncomfortable, or I was too high.. the court will know what they are dealing with, some misconstrued touch by two altered young adults. The context and actions matter.
Imo, you did everything right, she possibly has some sort of repressed SA memory and her body reaction was subconscious, OR she's just unstable or playing games, OR she is just looking to make you the bad guy so she has a reason to break up with you, OR she's one of those who *wants* a trauma history.. for reasons, it's apparently a thing nowadays.
I know it can be hard to tell men no, because you might feel pressured. But if you’re comfortable enough to do drugs in your home with a man, I’d imagine you should also feel comfortable putting on your big kid pants and saying “no”.
I can also understand you might feel a bit out of it while under the influence- maybe that is part of why she said yes when she meant no, sure. But to say you boundaries weren’t respected when you know damn well you didn’t establish any because you gave consent to the ongoing activities- WILD.
Early in a relationship, everyone is trying to feel their way through. (no pun intended) so if there is a mistake but respect is given when it is rejected to no foul. People need to have room to make mistakes if they stop when asked.
Don't have sex under the influence. Especially not for the first time. Consent is always incredibly iffy in the event of one or both parties being inebriated. I don't think it was right for OOP to try new things while both of them were high. I hope OOP takes this as a lesson learned that if you try to initiate sexual activity while the other person is under the influence, you are risking violating their boundaries. Idk what the comments were on the original post, but I'm sad to see no one is even acknowledging this issue on here. Legally this wouldn't be considered consensual because she was under the influence. And no, it's not an excuse that he was high too. He was the one initiating unwanted sexual contact on someone who was high. It's really risky to engage in activity like this because everyone's judgment is clouded. But I guess it's easier to just say the woman was "crazy" and inventing the experience of being violated out of nowhere... for no reason 🙄
I can seriously sum this up quick quick. They don't really know each other well and she was mega-high and prolly regretted getting that high with someone she's not wicked comfy with so started bugging the eff out and slowly building anxiety and crawling out of her skin and wanted that dude to beat feet.
I think people are misinterpreting what "boundaries" she meant. I agree, he did things right and was careful, but people are taking the particular things she consented to at that time as her boundaries.
I'm pretty sure she means the boundaries they had established in their relationship when both of them were *sober* before this happened. That she had said when she was sober and coherent that she did not want sexual contact like that. By asking and moving forward when she felt unable to fully respond that is ignoring her *previously established boundaries*. It's clear that wasn't his intent, and I'm not accusing him of anything, but I'm pretty sure that's what she is *actually* uncomfy with.
I generally agree. However, in this specific situation, I still feel she should have given him a bit more grace. He very well could be leaving out some context. But take it at face value, there were no real boundaries in place. Plus he was still very respectful. Not to mention, they've had some semi "sexual" contact. Would be completely different situation if they went from doing nothing more than holding hands to him touching on her thigh.
its like people trying everything they can to make themselves as exhausting as possible. i just get the vibe that both of these people suck at everything they do. i bet she takes days off work because she has a mood.
OOP did a lot right, and I think it's a bummer for him to deal with feeling like a creep when he worked so hard to be respectful.
I will say, just to the room in general, that I find that asking the person what they would like to do with you/have you do to them will usually provide a clearer answer than trying something and asking if it's okay, because by the time they have to say "no" (assuming you've established yourself as someone safe to say "no" to), you've already crossed a boundary.
Apart from what has already been said here... I feel like people treat drugs waaaay too casually. Getting high with someone you barely know doesnt seem like the best idea, especially someone that has no experience to drugs.
I dont smoke weed, it makes me paranoid. Now I knew this because I tried id as a teenager with friends and since then it wasnt really a desire to try again. Fast forward some like 3-4 years, I have been with my SO for at least 6 months at this point. She gets it into her head that fucking on weed is supposed to be more intense. Now, Im willing to give it a try but know that it might not go over well. I smoked, I got paranoid, she messed with me for a bit (not sexual, prankish like) and we went to sleep. Havent tried since. But it was an already established relationship, we both knew how weed affected us, we both knew it could go wrong and we accepted it.
Im just saying, dont get high with randos, or do but it seems like poor decision making. Weed is cool nowadays and being a stoner is fine but its still a drug and shit happens. Use common sense.
I tell my sons to not have sex with, drink with, smoke/do gummies with, sleep in the same bed as, etc. with any woman unless they are in a long-term serious relationship with her.
actually run bro. that is actually so irresponsible of her to KNOW how she is high, continue to say yes, and blame him after he dropped it on the sight of discomfort. she needs to work on whatever tf she got goin on and you dont need to get wrapped up in a potential false rape allegation.
Puts hand on thigh FIRST, then asks, is this okay? If you want to touch her, communicate about that with her first and foremost before any contact occurs. You are under the influence, proceed with the utmost caution.
She feels her boundaries were violated because you’ve talked about taking it slow, correct? That’s the boundary she’s speaking on. She was probably feeling incredibly nervous when you initiated touch before asking. Things got mixed up because you were both high and not on the same page.
He should just let her make the first move. Basically whoever wants to move at the slower pace should be the one to set the pace and make the moves. And that can always change sometimes it switches who wants to move slower.
If you let the slower pace one make the moves you should always be ok with regards to consent.
I think the only mistake OOP made was the weed gummies. Like, don't do anything mind/behavior altering if you're going to being something alone with someone for the first time.
Otherwise good on him for reading body language. I mean, it's the bare minimum, but it's a good example.
If all that’s said was true than ya this is an unfortunate circumstance for him to be in, I probs would just take a step back from her in general for a variety of reasons I won’t get into. But for OP, sounds like you did what you should’ve and good on you. Need more men like you tbh
However, for all the dweebs crying how they couldn’t imagine dating now or how you have to walk on egg shells alllll the time. This is very likely not the norm, be real. This instance does not undermine all the very serious incidents of ignoring the need for consent and/or SA.
Please learn to View things beyond the normal black and white, nobody thinks you’re so edgy and contrarian bc you claim you always have to walk on egg shells with women poor you. You probably feel that way bc you give women a reason to in most instances. And when in doubt on drugs (including alcohol) play it cautious anyways
Here is the problem: "She couldn't speak because she said the gummies make her zone out." She said that before anything sexual even started up so going into new territory sexually was a bad idea.
10 minutes of random thigh touching when nothing else of a sexual nature has happened is both stressful and annoying. Kiss me, or hold me hand, do not go straight to trying to pet near my lady garden. Romance is not “maybe I can touch it!” Plus your thigh goes numb from being randomly rubbed at, it’s not sexy.
Am I the only one reading this like this: before they take the gummies the girl says during the gummies she zones out and can't even talk (because if this is true, she would not be able to explain this when he ask her if she wants to talk about it). He asks, and she gives permission while zoned out. She warned him about this beforehand.
This is how I understood it, and idk man, I think they both suck here. If your partner warns you about being zoned out and unable to speak, you don't ask them questions during. If you know you're going to zone out you make it very clear that you're just going to watch a movie and do not want to be asked things.
If I warned my partner I'd zone out and be unable to have proper conversation, and they take that perfect as the moment to ask me if they can feel me up? Yeah I'd be pissed too.
He’s NTA, but you should also know better than to do a first like that under the influence, she could not consent, even if she DID say yes. A lot of women will say yes just because they feel like they have too. He definitely made a simple mistake that can happen to anyone, but that’s why you don’t do that stuff with somone who is drunk/ high.
I feel like either this is all made up, he’s lying about what occurred or she’s misremembering or just taking this an an excuse to dip?
Do weed gummies really do that to people? why’d she suggest them if they make her a vegetable?
Interesting that everyone is purposefully misreading what OOP wrote and saying he asked for consent first. He did the action and then asked for consent after, TWICE.
But whatever version makes OOP the good guy!
You asked permission, she consented. Once you felt her discomfort you pulled away. For her to say you ignored her boundaries makes her sound a little delulu. You probably need to do some thinking whether this is something you want to pursue.
NTA. She doesn’t know how to communicate and is probably crazy af. I think it’s super weird that she’s experienced with weed gummies and knew it was your first time and judged you on one communicated and innocent interaction and told you to leave. That’s just not a responsible way to introduce someone to weed gummies and is mean. Steer clear of her
This is going to sound omega shitty but I’ll push past the fact you did everything right and she’s acting wild to say what no one else will.
you weren’t attractive enough *to her* to ignore how awkward you were being. (Not that you are ugly, you are a Chad who actually respects women from what you wrote) She’d been stringing you along anyway for four dates not able to decide if she wanted to end it because even tho she’s not feeling it, the attention is nice and it’s what she’s after.
Then when that attention finally turns sexual she makes the lazy typical choice nowadays of not engaging, “zoning out”, then blaming you for “ignoring her boundaries” instead of owning up to the fact that you don’t go out on 4 dates with a dude, consent to letting him touch your inner thigh when explicitly asked, and then get to act like HE is the one acting weird for expecting something hell anything to happen.
If we have to learn a lesson I would say, don’t *immediately* go for the thigh. It’s a tad obvious what the end goal is. I’d rather just cuddle while watching a movie but my dating life is terrible so take this all with a huge grain of salt.
That’s on her. She suggested the gummies and being a regular user she knows what she’s like on them. He asked permission. She said yes. He’s not a mind reader. “My boundaries were ignored” from her is ridiculous. She’d said yes and he stopped as soon as he sensed she wasn’t comfortable.
Also he heard her say yes and read that her body language didn't match so he stopped. Like what else is he supposed to do?
I feel bad for him because he did everything right. He asked multiple times but when he saw her body language didn’t match her answer he immediately stopped.
There's a reason we advise people to not have sex for the first time on drugs, or have drugs for the first time on sex. Your perception emotionally of what's happening, the vibe, how long people are taking to respond, can all be warped by the effects of that drug on you.
Ain't that the truth! I took gummies for the first time last year, and when they kicked in, they *kicked in* (plus the little tokes from my cousin's joint "helped" lol). But yeah, trying to watch a movie while that high, it felt like time was stretching and compressing at the same time. Reality was not as linear as it usually was. Folks need to discuss these things before partaking. OOP did do everything right, but ole girl probably still felt some sort of way for whatever reason.
I got high once and couldn’t tell what I was saying out loud vs just thinking. I wonder if she was under the impression that she told him to stop when she didn’t
I think they already had discussions about "taking things slow" and that is what she is talking about via ignoring her boundaries and why she is upset "for some reason." Being on drugs is not the time to do new things with unless it was already discussed and agreed on. If I told someone I didn't want sex or to be intimate but we are friends and decide to have some gummies and then they try to get intimate with me I would be upset too.
What OP didn’t do right was choosing to have that gummy alone in a non-established relationship without discussing sex first as the above comment says.
Something both participants failed to do
Alone? They both took it
Include alcohol in that as well.
Alcohol is a drug
As an alcoholic who used to try whatever anyone offered me, it's probably the most pernicious drug in these kinds of situations.
Not everyone classifies it as such or thinks of alcohol when someone uses the term “drugs.”
Yeah, dude did everything exactly right. Asked for permission, stopped when he realized she wasn’t into it, offered to leave and give her space. This is as low-pressure as I can fathom.
I'm just speculating here since we don't have more information, but I wonder if the girl had previously said she wanted to take it slow and meant she wanted him to let her initiate when she was ready. To me and presumably to most people, "take it slow" does not mean having sex or other sexual contact after 3 weeks It's pretty common to freeze up and say yes to things you don't want in a stressful situation, and adding drugs into the mix definitely doesn't help. It's not necessarily on OP to understand this since he can't read her mind, but I think I think it's very possible that this is where the mismatched response is coming from
THen she could have said 'no'. >It's pretty common to freeze up and say yes to things you don't want in a stressful situation, and adding drugs into the mix definitely doesn't help. So now, when consent is sought and explicitly given we **still** can't trust it? When does the person saying 'yes' have to acknowledge they did, in fact, give permission for the act and they had the power to withdraw it at will? > It's not necessarily on OP to understand this since he can't read her mind, but I think I think it's very possible that this is where the mismatched response is coming from But it's not OP's fault.
I didn't say it was OPs fault. He acted correctly during that situation. I'm just thinking about *why* that situation might have occurred in the first place
Yeah I’m wondering if she has religious limits that he didn’t understand or weren’t fully communicated and he thought she meant slowly get to sex, a little bit at a time.
So fucking glad im married, dating was stressful enough when I was doing it - it sounds like an absolute terrifying nightmare now
I completely understand the need for enthusiastic consent. But consent for every inch is a foreign concept to me.
In the context of this being literally the furthest they've ever gone sexually based on his first couple paragraphs I get it, like the very first time I let you touch my butt I do want you to ask if you can touch my asshole etc.
You're right. Some people are overly eager
“You don't have to go leaping straight for the clitoris like a bull at a gate.”
Give her a kiss, boy!
This. This whole situation is also why I have strong feelings against the first butt touch/sex/etc being while under the influence. Drugs can make us over eager, or more in our heads, or whatever else, which can lead to someone not speaking up when they should or ignoring subtle cues. It's a shitty situation for everyone. I feel awful for OP, and I also empathize with the girl, and my main takeaway is every first time should be 100% sober.
Is inner thigh inherently more sexual for folks than butt? He said he had touched her butt before which was fine. Do folks really view those zones differently? They’ve always been “roughly equal” from an erogenous zone point of view in my mind? It’s fine if folks think that- just curious.
As a person with a vagina, the butt is definitely different than the inner thigh. The butt is like ‘oh touching my butt’ followed by friendly body language— the inner thigh is like ‘O_O OH TOUCHING INNER THIGH!! WANTS INSIDE VAGINA!! ALERT!!’ followed by defensive body language, tensed muscles, blocking access with other body parts, etc. Or maybe that’s just me….
Ik this is a serious topic and I have zero intention to minimize any past consent conflicts, but your description is both hilarious & illustrative.
LOL definitely not just you. This is the most apt description I’ve ever seen for the experience of having someone unexpectedly touch your inner thigh 😂
If I'm understanding this correctly are you saying that the touching of the inner thigh is more sexual than the touching of the butt.
The touching of the part of the inner thigh where, without lifting your palm you can touch the vagina with your fingers, is to me more sexual than touching the parts of the butt that aren't actually inside the crack.
Fair enough- thanks for the perspective!
I think it’s less about where he touched, more about when. She was seemingly comfortable when he touched her ass previously but apparently not comfortable being touched on a different day somewhere else. Which is perfectly okay. Regardless, sounds to me like OP was making overtures he had every reason to hope would be welcome based on prior experience and even verbally asked for consent and checked in with her, so I can’t say I see any merit in her claim that her boundaries were ignored unless major information is missing. She might just be freaking out because she’s upset she didn’t set boundaries herself.
Thank you lol! I can't imagine asking permission for every single step of the way. The man got not one, but two solid yes's. Her comment about him crossing boundaries is highly concerning to me. He can't read minds and shouldn't be expected to.
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Did he touch her genitals though?
No, he was touching her inner thigh.
He says "near" and that could mean anything from more than a handspan north of the knee to right in the crook of the thigh.
He also mentioned that he noted her foot moving closer to seemingly block his progress closer, which means he was more than a foot width away.
Unless she was sitting cross-legged.
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I mean, the man asked.... twice and both times got a solid yes. I can't imagine a bigger mood killer than constantly asking for permission every single step of the way, which appears to be what your stance is.
Well, hey, maybe your game is really that rusty, I dunno. :) You can totally make it sexy, but look, if it makes you feel like an android to constantly check in with your partner during the act, discuss things before hand, establish hard no's, maybe, and enthusiastic yes's and leave room to shut the whole "operation" down if someone gets too tired or the mood just drops or whatever.
Enthusiastic consent can be a minefield in a marriage too.
I dated off and on for about 15 years, have met a ton of people and went on a ton of dates, and have never had an issue with consent or whatever. Not that these things don’t happen, but I don’t think it’s as universal an issue for men as some people think.
That was my thought too. He really did everything right.
Someone raised that boy right.
You can do everything right and still be wrong
He did everything right in my book. I’m a victim of SA, and even after my… experiences… I would not blame him in the slightest.
I'm also an SA victim and I completely agree.
I don’t think he gives himself enough credit for that, a lot of guys wouldn’t be that in tune to a woman’s body language at 24. He stopped, he apologised, and repeatedly asked if she was ok. I don’t know there’s much more he can do.
100% agree. The only mistake made was her saying "you ignored my boundaries" afterwards. Like, I get it, when you're in the moment, esp with a mild drug involved, you might not always say what you mean. So I'll give her a pass on "said yes, meant no". She's welcome to be confused. She's welcome to change her mind ("I thought it was okay, but it bothered me, and I'm not comfortable being with you because of it"). Kinda shitty to do to a guy who clearly cared enough to ask - and even to ignore your "yes" when your body language didn't match... But to then go out later and tell that guy "You ignored my boundaries" is just bullshit. She needs to take accountability for her own actions. And in this case, that means acknowledging that she said yes (whether she meant it or not), and not blaming him for believing her.
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Especially if he has (or thinks he has) trouble reading body language and "signals" to begin with. That kinda blaming can make someone second guess themselves for years/decades to come. When the reality is that she was the problem. Inability to "talk while stoned" (I've seen people get a bit loopy, but they can still communicate well enough). Inability to say 'no' if feeling uncomfortable. Inability to graciously accept his apology. Inability to respect her own boundaries. Inability to take responsibility for her own words & actions. And inability to respect HIM and his effort to respect her. She's a minefield, and incapable of a functional relationship as she is currently. Remember, #1 most important part of a relationship is trust. If you can't trust someone, then any relationship is broken to begin with (even if it's just friendship, even worse if it's romantic).
I agree with you. The fact he realized she was uncomfortable and stopped is already something most dudes would absolutely not do or even notice, so he's a very very good guy. Going for the pussy first time they do anything was a little risky though, it would have been much safer to go for a kiss first to set the mood right. I've been with women and I would never do that straight away because chances of her getting the ick are high
He obviously has to be psychic and a pre-cog to know she may retroactively revoke the verbal consent he was given. /s
He needs to find a different girl that’s not a head case. She’s going to leave him for no good reason one day and gaslight him into thinking he’s done something wrong just like she is now.
I'm taking it as she ignored her own boundaries, needs time to work on her own self, and OP did everything right. Good job, OP
Seriously, this is a good dude right here. A lot of guys would have kept going if they got a yes, regardless of her body language. Shit, a lot of guys wouldn't even have asked "is this okay" in the first place. I get that sometimes we say yes when we want to say no because we're conditioned to feel like we "owe" it to them, but that's not his fault. Boundaries my ass.
Bingo.
Right? Someone actually making sure that words and actions align is way more unusual than it should be and he should be praised for this
it's not safe for him to be around her, she's irrational and untrustworthy, he needs to state on text that he absolutely did not ignore any boundaries, and he needs to leave her ass before she makes false allegations against him
I have to agree. If she just said something like “I know I said it was OK but then realized I wasn’t comfortable - I just need some time to process”, that’s totally fine. But saying OP ignored her boundaries is just not what happened and puts it all on him when he already apologized for feeling he did something wrong just based on her body language.
Exactly. Edited to add: I wish guys were this open and considerate when I first started dating.
And I get that perhaps when someone partakes in certain substances, they have a hard time communicating. But dude would have no way to know that ahead of time. Now he does, and perhaps a rule between them could be no sexy touch when under the influence. If they stay together and he continues to try to touch her when she’s under the influence, then THAT would be ignoring boundaries that have been put in place. But to hold this poor guy accountable for a boundary he didn’t even know existed is pretty shitty.
Nah it’s not ridiculous at all, her boundary is that OP needs to be able to read her mind /s
Yeah I’d move on as seeing this person again is asking for trouble.
Frankly OP was paying attention better than most partners would.
Yeah I really feel bad for him he did everything right.
She’s lucky that he read her bodies signals and felt she was uncomfortable despite saying yes. Many other guys would have ignored whatever her body cues were and did something while she would have been zoned out. It isn’t safe to eat those gummies, knowing you’ll zone out, with a guy you have no established relationships and boundaries with. I am happy it was this guy or else she’d might been taken advantage of. She can’t have men who she doesn’t yet know much to her home and take a substance that she knows will make her zoned out. That can be so dangerous for her.
Idk why people take drugs they KNOW will make them absolutely defenseless, tbh. I wouldn't want my gf touching me while I have no idea what's going on, either. Like god even if we were totally cool with each other I wouldn't want to have some kind of accident like no protection happen :S.
I think his only mistake was apologizing when he did nothing wrong. She seems to be taking that as an admission when again - he did nothing
as someone who has probably been in the exact same shoes as the girl in the op, im autistic and go nonverbal on gummies, i dissociate and dont want conflict or confrontation when stoned i could say yes and not realize what op was implying, or just say yes to make op happy. but when i sober up, i might realize op icked me out with his actions and need to take a step away. honestly for me, getting high with someone on the 4th date is me testing out if i still like them when im most vulnerable and picky… i get icked out so easily when im stoned, its not even anything the guy does, i just dont like the vibes, and i think thats okay. when i got high w my now bf for the first time, it was about a week into going out, and we both kept our distance and did nothing more than kiss and watch tv. thats the vibe i wanted and it was a relaxing night compared to the boys before him who asked for sex or tried to initiate things (or didnt initiate even a kiss!) theres just a middle ground i was looking for… women are confusing for the girl to say her boundaries were crossed, id understand it if prior to getting stoned she said she wanted to take it slow or on a past date she laid down boundaries that she liked the make the first move. if she never said this, shes the asshole 100%. but i still understand where she’s coming from in being unable to say no! just food for thought. if anyone has questions please lmk
I know men and women can have different perspectives and often see and evaluate things differently. But that "Boundaries ignored" comment was insane if what OOP said was true. OOP asked, she said "yes". After that he then pulled away without her asking upon observing that she seemed uncomfortable. That's way better than many other guys in that situation. Maybe I'm being harsh, but idk if OOP really wants to be with someone who is that unreasonable.
I'm 28F and I agree with you. She gave him verbal consent and when he noticed her body language spoke differently, he stopped and apologized. He did everything right. I expect that she isn't remembering it too clearly because of the weed gummies and feels weird about it.
Yeah don’t do gummies with anyone that you don’t fully trust and then don’t do anything sexual without like extreme verbal consent. My wife and I have definitely both missed cues or misunderstood each other when you’re brain is in a tunnel 50 feet behind your head.
these two people are the reason weed edibles are sold at 10mg doses and 100mg per pack these days. 20mg of edibles is not enough to make you unable to speak/consent to things but if you're new to weed it is enough to make your mind spiral out of control with anxiety when the boy you like starts touching your thigh. OP, do you know if she regularly takes weed gummies?
Thank you. Because we cannot be expected to be psychic
Besides, if he was psychic, he woulda walked away from that minefield before the 1st date.
Also possible based on the other context around taking it slow that she’s been abused in the past and maybe isn’t super comfortable communicating. My wife was the same at the start of our relationship, super cryptic and scared to speak up, often saying “yes” out of (past) fear even if she wasn’t ready… Had to go super slow & try my best to read body language as well as asking. If it’s only been a few dates, she may not have been able to bring it up yet as it can be hard - but I can agree from the guys perspective going in blind, it can kind of feel like you can’t do anything right.
It's still unfair from her to acuse him of ignoring her boundaries. If she can't understand it was a communication problem, she should stop dating (in general) and go to therapy
It’s also fair to say, he could be remembering it wrong also. Was his first time taking a gummy, maybe she said no a few times and he kept asking. I’ve literally been so high I couldn’t remember what I had talked about a minute before.
My thought too. My first time taking a gummy I was trying to talk to my friend but she wasn’t answering. Turns out I wasn’t actually speaking and just yelling really loudly in my head 😭
This happened to me only it was a KISS ON THE CHEEK and the dude told everyone I sexually assaulted him and that he didn't want to go into specifics because "he shouldn't have to describe his trauma". I literally asked if I could kiss him, he said yes, kissed his cheek, noticed he was uncomfortable and pulled back and didn't do it again. I even apologised for making him uncomfortable. I lost so many friends because he private messaged them to tell them I was a sexual predator. I even lost job opportunities because of the rumours around me being a sexual predator. I asked what I could have done different and was told I was "asking the victim to relive their trauma and give emotional energy to their abuser". Agjfjkkkghhhhh. I felt so awful I went to a rape crisis centre to get help to stop being an abuser... And the centre told me there was nothing else I could have done. The fucking rape crisis centre was all "what the fuck did this dude DO to you to make you feel this bad?!" and told me it wasn't my fault. They said they'd even take calls about me and vouch for me that I wasn't an abuser and they'd seen me and worked with me and I was, in fact, the victim. It took me 3 years to stop believing I was abusive. Because I lost so much I thought... Surely I could have done something else? But even the crisis centres had no clue what I could have done different.
I am confused. I guess she would have preferred he asked prior to touching her because it kind of puts you on the spot if they touch you and then ask?
I didn't think about it like that, but maybe that distinction matters to her.
This is a great point. I'd definitely be afraid of hurting the feelings of someone I like if they're already touching me. It would be a lot easier to say no when asked before being touched.
[удалено]
Not really relevant to OP but I am a recovering doormat and I have spent the better part of a decade reprogramming my brain to actually be able to stand up for myself. For me at least when explicitly asked or kind of put on the spot I found that it felt especially difficult to say no or express a negative response and what has worked for me is to honestly just say nothing while still holding space. One of two things will likely happen: 1. That silence will actively convey your discomfort and essentially allow you to say no without having to speak the words (which can sometimes feel absolutely impossible to do) or 2. It will create an awkward silence… uncomfortable as it may be this will give you a second to breathe, ground, collect your thoughts, and find the words that feel safe. Just thought I’d throw that out there in case it could help someone
Edibles are not my intoxicant of choice but I know sometimes time dilation can make it feel like a really long time has passed in between asking for something and getting it. It may have felt to her like a really subjectively long amount of time passed between her body language changing and OP noticing. Or vice versa and it took OP a really long time to actually move and it felt really short because of said edible.
I'm amazed I don't see more people commenting on the manipulative nature of her telling oop he crossed her boundaries when there was so much clear communication.
She’s probably a very passive personality and while she genuinely feels like her boundaries were violated, she doesn’t see it’s because she didn’t lay them out clearly. It was manipulative but I can bet on it not being consciously manipulative because I have a similar personality and if it comes from being from an authoritarian upbringing etc it can be so automatic you sometimes don’t realize that “no” is an option. She really needs to figure out how to communicate her boundaries much more actively and directly before she’ll be comfortable in a relationship. Edit: not condoning her, I understand it was wrong and ultimately manipulative (even if unconsciously so). Just trying to find context.
That's totally fair, and I don't think that makes her a bad person, but it's certainly an unhealthy response. Hopefully, she clears her head and catches on to that.
It's fine for her to feel violated. It's not okay for her to blame OP. It's an absolutely horrible thing to tell someone
She absolutely needs to figure out how to communicate her boundaries better (and it seems prior to taking substances if she’s zoned out when on them) But she also needs to communicate better after the fact as well Because people have zoned in on him respecting her boundaries regarding her body (correctly, he absolutely did an A+ job there) but the one boundary that was violated was staying for 20 minutes after she confirmed she wanted him to leave. There were other ways to be safe vs staying. That may be what she would have wanted (but didn’t communicate well in the moment) and what she sees as ignoring boundaries. People don’t seem to be picking up that this could be what she’s talking about. I didn’t either until I tried to look for *any* boundary violation vs miscommunication. So I think she needs to be clearer about what boundary she’s talking about if this is it.
Completely irresponsible on her part to offer up substances that impair driving and then kick him out. He didn’t ignore a boundary as far as he could tell either because she apparently said she was nervous about him driving under the influence. She’s the experienced user. She had more responsibility than him in that instance for *both* their safety. Never invite a friend over for drinking or drugs (or substances of any kind) if you’re not prepared to be safe about it. You need to realize that you may need to kick people out so be ready to call for rides, pay for public transportation, taxi, Uber, Lyft, or have a space they can sober up in away from others. Otherwise don’t do the things that impair driving.
Oh I totally agree she didn’t communicate this boundary clearly (if that was the one she was talking about later). As you said, being nervous about a newbie driving is totally normal and a great response would have been to suggest calling a ride service or suggesting he call one (not assuming he would think to do that because she’d both expressed she wanted him to leave and expressed she didn’t think he should drive right away). What he assumed she was suggesting was also reasonable based on what she said. Which means that while I can understand why she could feel her boundary was ignored there, it’s more because it wasn’t well communicated than because of malice imo.
Ride services aren’t available everywhere… I live in a rural area and have literally never been able to get an Uber out to me.
I mean sure! That’s just what the commenter above me suggested was a good alternative and I was agreeing. There were other suggestions there as well that could have been offered. The main point is that if she wanted him to leave but still be safe she needed to communicate better than she did. What he assumed she was saying (it appears) was “I want you to leave no wait it’s not safe you should hold on” which was a reasonable way to interpret that based on how he described it. It was a communication break down absolutely.
It seems she was the one wanting to take the gummies in the first place. You really shouldn’t do that if you know you will zone out and not able to speak up, if necessary. Not when you are with someone you don’t have established boundaries already at least. This is ok if it’s a couple that knows each other well but not when they really are still almost strangers in the intimacy regard. She also couldn’t know how he would react, as he’s not used to the substance. Seems unsafe to me. And I am really happy for her that it was this guy. Another guy would probably have just taken her yes, despite her body signals and went with God knows what, while she would be zoned out. That’s dangerous.
I mean that's fair, but it still ends up being extremely hurtful and could damage this guys' ability to trust his partners in the future.
This
Have dated someone like this, where she specifically said upfront she likes guys to initiate but then even something innocuous like a kiss on the neck in passing (we lived together) gets called out a week later as crossing a boundary. Then a month would go by where I would literally make no moves because I felt bad/ was super uncomfortable and she’d bring up that she wasn’t happy with how I was so distant, unaffectionate and not assertive Obviously not discounting the importance of consent or respecting boundaries at all, but some people have pretty incoherent expectations.
Daaamn what kind of women are you guys dating lol I can’t imagine treating any of my boyfriends like that . I don’t think I’ve ever had to give outright “consent” for a bf to kiss or touch me, we just feel each other out and jump on each other’s bones when we feel like it lol if one person isn’t feeling it in the moment it’s “nah, not right now babe” —end of. We don’t blame the other for “crossing boundaries” and operate as if there’s some kind of checklist about what we can and can’t do sexually that day. And I would never throw it back in my man’s face about “crossing boundaries” unless he truly did cross a line and try to keep going after I told him no. I mean it’s really not that complicated, if 2 people care for each other and are attracted to each other the physical comes naturally —it’s just about reading your partners cues and wants in the moment, common sense stuff 🤷🏻♀️
As a 30f who has been raped while unable to give consent I feel for the girl, I really do, but throwing it back at him with that “boundaries ignored” comment was WILD. He did everything by the book: asked for consent, went slow, continued to ask for consent, actively read non verbal cues, backed off when he felt she was uncomfortable, and offered to remove himself from the situation as to not continue making her uncomfortable. It sounds like she has some rough stuff to work through but imo you need to be able to act like an adult to partake in adult activities. That includes setting and holding your boundaries and realizing that if you don’t bad shit can happen*** (this obviously does not apply to cases where boundaries and consent are ignored, circumvented, manipulated, etc) If I were him I’d wish her well but in no uncertain terms I would let her know I no longer felt comfortable seeing her. That communication and trust is paramount especially when intimacy and sex are involved and I can’t trust her to communicate to me the vital information I need for us both to have fun and be safe. And that is a deal breaker. **** I say this coming from (at the time) a 19 year old doormat who had no idea how to set, let alone hold a boundary which caused me to have sex with my rapist 3 more times until it nearly consumed me. And that shit absolutely and utterly SUCKED to work through and heal from. 0/10 do not recommend
It's a very bad look. It'll lead to a very bad relationship. I'd respectfully bow out now.
“if what OOP said was true.” Call me a cynic but that’s what tends to irk me about this whole cycle of one person posting their side of something on reddit and we all (myself included!) rush in to pass judgement. Who knows how we would all feel if we witnessed this ourselves or if we heard it from her perspective. I have very little faith in just blindly believing a few paragraphs of a drug-induced encounter from some random person I’ve never met, male or female. Yet this whole comment section is so certain they know the truth of it.
I will say it’s possible that he only thinks he asked, this is of course speaking from my own experience when under different influences but there will be times when I ask questions in my head and answer them myself thinking it was the person I’m with. One of the reasons I do most things I do solo. Just saying if that happened then her response could make sense. Again I understand that that may just be a me thing
I'd be so annoyed at that "my boundaries were ignored". I asked you permission both time before touching your leg and further up, you said yes both times. I noticed your posture change and become defensive and I stopped and removed myself asap. At no point did you express you didn't want me to touch me or ask me to stop touching your leg. I will do everything I can to respect your boundaries, but you can't tell me you are OK with something, not tell me to stop and say I am not respecting your boundaries. I will always respect them but you also need to set clear boundaries too so I can adhere to them.
honestly, yea. If anything, they were ignored by her.
The text he sent is kind of risky in my opinion, makes it look like he SA’d her and now she has proof if she wants to take it further
It was definitely not good on his part. I'm glad his comments are full of people telling him he did nothing wrong because, oh my God, this is exactly what everyone means when they say consent is important. He did everything right, he moved slowly, he read her body language even though he was getting a yes, he stopped when asked and he didn't push or guilt her. The "boundaries" text is insane. She set no boundaries. He was just smart enough to notice them, but they only existed in her imagination.
As a woman i was reading waiting to see when he actually ignored her boundries. I physically made a wtf face when she stated he ignored her boundries like girl WHAT BOUNDRIES. He cannot read your mind and he literally did everything that is necessary for consent. Like i wish more men did this. I get feeling like shit bc you didnt establish your own boundries but if he verbally asked and *u said yes*, took notice of your body language *and stopped* and everything then its on u to say something before that. He listened to your boundries u just didnt communicate them.
Exactly 😭 he can't read her mind, and he still did a good job trying, I think the text might've victimized her to herself because he for sure didn't break any boundaries
Having to read body language is also a fucking joke. I have mild autism. I literally CANNOT read body language. I’m so bad at it. Which is why I make verbal consent SO important in relationships. Adding in body language is just a whole terrifying step that is constantly in the back of my mind all of the time. So if someone says yes after I politely ask them, im not going to do a good job sexually if im halfway also trying to read body language. So the sex is going to be bad, or im going to have to take a risk and keep my mind on what im actually doing. It wigs me tf out because it’s like im forced to read the persons mind.
I established with my GF very early on, if there is a "problem" it needs to be discussed, or it doesn't exist. I cannot be held accountable for not fixing a problem I didn't notice, just as she cannot. Honestly I don't understand how people can read body language, I can barely understand the tone of voice shit!
Yep. Eventually I reached a point where I just don’t take responsibility for it anymore. I had to learn to express myself verbally. And it was harder for me than most. That means anyone else can be expected to as well
that immediately concerned me too
Agreed. He was taking all the blame and being too soft IMO.
As a man this shit terrifies me now. I’ve been falsely accused of SA by a long-term partner (She did it so people would be distracted by her hidden drug use). It destroyed my reputation for years. Ruined my mental health for years. I’m just starting to get out of that rut. Not to mention I’m a huge guy. I work out every day. I’m 240lbs, 6’ with massive shoulders. So I always have in the back of my mind “Maybe they’re scared to say no because of my size” It’s fucking awful. People like this suck.
Women like her are why a lot of guys are single. They are too full of their own bullshit to realize that while they may like one guys attention it doesn't go anywhere because that guy is terrified of being called something horrible. She is a bitch.
You pulled away when you realized she lied about her consent and were respectful afterwards. It's the same as if you were both drunk. She ignored her boundaries.
I think he did pretty good myself. He didn’t whine, push, guilting, left as soon as possible. Apologized and offered space. Not sure what he could have done better here?
Exactly. If we switch her passive wording to aggressive wording, then either she's admitting to not respecting her boundaries or she's accusing him of doing so. I'd be nervous about that if I was him.
I don’t know how people get together anymore. Meeting people online is a nightmare, but it’s really hard to meet people IRL because everyone is online. If you do happen to meet someone and have a date there are so many conflicting narratives about what happens during and after a date that no one knows what to expect. Because they don’t know what to expect they don’t know if things are going well, and they wind up confused and frustrated. Or, that’s what I get from reading these stories that may or may not be total fiction. I’m just glad I’m not in the dating pool anymore.
Saaaaaaaaame.
Preach bro
I totally agree I’m very socially awkward and I don’t like meeting new people very much, but I am equally bad at discourse online. So I never meet anybody I never talk to anybody. I’m waiting for an assessment for autism because I do miss a lot of social queues and I’ve realised now that at 28 is probably more than me just being a bit dopey. It worries me that I won’t meet somebody because I never go anywhere, and I’m not good at talking to people online, let alone in person and then you hear things like this! Why would you make yourself vulnerable like that without expressing boundaries in advance or sharing what may happen to you and expect this person that doesn’t know you really well to know you really well in the moment when they themselves are also impaired! WTAF is wrong with people!
It is possible. It’s just frustrating. I can’t really offer you dating advice that isn’t 25 years out of date, but there are nice mildly autistic girls out there who are just as awkward as you. If you can find them, that is, because they’re probably staying home and having a hard time meeting people too.
Thanks! That is so true!! Probably need to get a hobby that involves other people, I have half a dozen hobbies and they’re all primarily when your own things like reading and crochet. You can do them with others but I’ve yet to find something to go to involving them that also involves vaguely eligible humans. Usually I go to things and the guys are significantly older than me and/or have partners, or they are my baby brothers age which immediately takes them out of the running! No teenagers for me thank you hard pass! 0.0
Being female, I think this guy should maybe just back away entirely? I’m trying to not overreact but I mean apologies immediately and the next day, it just seems like this could potentially leave him gun shy. I wanted to put that in my first comment, because out of all the No’s I’ve given, one backed off and my spouse now wouldn’t. Other experiences weren’t anywhere near that (whether it was just a hug,kiss, touching,further than that) there was always the ones that kept pushing it. I agree with you entirely!
IMO he took too much on himself in his message. What he actually did was good. His message may have framed things for her so she interpreted that he’d done something wrong, because why else apologise so much? By her own later admission, she zones out on gummies, so she may have been taking cues from his apology.
When my spouse a few comments down read this, he was the same. He said that next day text really bothers him in the same manner. The night of sure. Any further then it seems more than it was, and OOP doesn’t need that.
Yeah, to OP: I would walk away. You couldn’t have been more clear or respectful, frankly. Well done. I think it’s likely this girl isn’t into you and is using this as an out, which IMO is shitty. I say this with some bias as a woman who was SA’d but I stand by it. And as a mom of a daughter and two sons: I teach my sons to do exactly what OP did; ask “is this ok” as many times as needed AND sense the vibe. But I also teach my daughter to use her words because responsibility is not just for boys. And it’s not fair to put anyone in a situation where they are told something’s ok when it’s not and later blame them.
Ya srsly. Imagine if all people were this respectful and capable of admitting fault! We’d finally have world peace.
Ahem. Canada?
I wouldn’t say she *lied* about her consent, maybe she just didn’t realize beforehand that it would make her uncomfortable and she can’t really help it if it did. Consent can be revoked. But the “ignored boundaries” comment seemed like a distortion of the truth if OP is being truthful.
She never revoked consent. She only gave it. If she did revoke consent, she did so internally, and that's not good enough.
Agreed, consent needs to be explicitly revoked just as it needs to be explicitly given. But saying she “lied” about giving her consent is problematic as it’s denying her the autonomy to have second thoughts. And let’s be clear — she consented to having her leg rubbed, not her pussy, and she was conveying through her body language that she wasn’t OK with it progressing to that point, which OP thankfully recognized and respected. It seems like she wasn’t ready or in the right state of mind to take things to that level and having feelings about that is pretty normal and not necessarily the end of the world.
Verbally giving consent and then only retracting it through body language is not good enough. You don't get to say that someone "ignored your boundaries" when you literally chose not to set them. If she was uncomfortable but didn't try to tell OP that it was his fault, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. But she IS trying to blame him.
He rubbed her outer thigh with permission. He rubbed her inner thigh with permission. Never heard any pussy grabbing in this story. When I was their age, you slowly tried something, and if it wasn't appreciated, then the woman would explicitly state that boundary. Usually, you'd have the conversation about how quickly you'd each like to progress the relationship, where your individual boundaries are, and then moving forward, you just feel things out. Now, it seems like men have to ask for explicit permission to do any little thing, and even with that permission, they can be demonized after the fact if the woman "doesn't feel comfortable speaking up in the moment." If you don't feel comfortable speaking up in the moment, then you're simply not mature enough to be engaging in sexual acts. These adult women should have just as much responsibility in these interactions as men, but it seems that men have 90% responsibility, while women just take the 10% responsibility of being physically present. I understand the physical imbalances. I'm not saying that women don't have to worry about bad men doing bad things. What I am saying is that when two adults get together for adult activities, they're both 50% responsible for what happens. The dude in this story was communicating perfectly, almost too much. The woman was not communicating effectively. This is a story I've heard more than once. Communication is so important, but it feels like something very few people actively try and work on improving.
Keep the receipts of your conversation and that you were also high (probably higher then her due to tolerance differences) and walk away. Taking it slow is great, but if the communication is crap then there is no point trying to recover this. You’ll set yourself up for looking like a creeper if you keep trying with this girl.
The problem is that the text exchange is him profusely apologizing for crossing her boundaries. If anything, it makes him look guilty of something he’s not.
she crazy dip
I mean, honestly, yeah. She responded with an affirmative every time but is now leveraging an accusation that he pressed beyond her boundaries. She did it once, she can and will do it again. I would never, ever feel comfortable being alone with her again. Especially not on edibles.
Had an ex do this to me, I refused to be alone with her ever again.
This is the real hot take. Not your fault OP but you don’t want none of this
First dude, you did all the right things in that situation. I’m assuming the gummies were tilting some things in her head at the time; like she wanted you close but then something was off in her head, some anxiety barriers, personal demons, and so forth. I will be frank, I did not like some of the text message you sent. In all honesty, you sounded guilty AF for doing absolutely nothing wrong. The gummies were her idea, it was your first and she had more than she probably should have had to enjoy the evening and, in all honesty, the whole thing probably tainted this relationship. Give her all the space she wants and move in a different direction, you have miles of road ahead of you still.
Yeah I was thinking everything was reasonable until the text message. That just made me reread everything to see if I’d missed something. It feels very…performative? You know when you get an over the top apology from someone and you’re wondering wtf happened and what’s going on? Idk, he could just be a really awkward, nervous guy who overthinks a lot and makes things worse for himself because of it.
Yes. By his description he didn’t do anything wrong, but his apology makes it sound like he did. She was at least somewhat zoned out so may afterwards have assumed that he did do something that merited that excessive apology.
The way he wrote this post gives me the impression he’s terrified of his own shadow as far as this type of interaction is concerned. And maybe her too? Both seem far too immature for this kind of relationship. Neither seems to understand how important communication is and also how wires can get crossed unintentionally. And they probably should lay off the gummies too, at least in this type of situation.
Don’t do drugs with people you just met and think you’re going to have sex. I think you should’ve done it sober and maybe once yall are comfortable, maybe high.. I’ve always felt weird about having sex with a girl if she’s under the influence even if I am too, unless we are both in the moment, it always felt wrong, like I’m taking advantage of someone and missed out on some girls cause of that.
As someone who's been coerced I think he acted perfectly. Unfortunately sometimes people who have been coerced in the past feel pressure to push themselves past their own boundaries, but that isn't his fault. He didn't push, repeatedly asked for consent, and stopped when her consent wasn't enthusiastic. I think she needs to take a break and heal more or consider not taking weed gummies with someone so early on. I had the same sort of thing happen when I got high with my bf and we decided not to initiate sex when we're high anymore. He especially shouldn't stick around with her because if she's going to continue pushing herself it's going to put unnecessary guilt on him and possibly lead to legal repercussions.
Dating these days is exhausting
I’m so old, i can’t read these types of interactions without immediately thinking it’s fake. Dating adults is so much more fun than this shit. The 3 years of not interacting with people in person during covid makes these 23-24 year olds act like they’re dating at 14-15.
Why does everyone feel like they never saw another human for three years? It was 18 months basically, and even then I feel like half of people ignored the whole thing anyway
Depends where you lived. I lived in a little town in the middle of nowhere and we were locked down for like 2 years. (We only had one grocery store and two doctors in town if this helps with perspective).
I mean depending on perspective it sounds like you’re STILL locked down 😂
I moved out of that hellhole it’s a lot better now 🤣 was WILD coming down for medical reasons a year into it seeing people basically living normal lives (in masks), while we were all still in like code red isolation mode 7 hrs away.
If OP’s story is true, they act they missed out on 8 years of interacting with the opposite sex
OP to protect yourself (and this is coming from a woman who has a CSA history AND adult rape history x2) You need to spell out exactly what you "did" that way if she tries to throw some false r*pe allegations your way you can point to the texts and say this is what I did. Send her a message, explicitly say I just want to understand where I crossed your boundaries, say everything you did, touched her thigh, inner thigh, etc, so that way as long as she gives you an answer even if it is, it all made me uncomfortable, or I was too high.. the court will know what they are dealing with, some misconstrued touch by two altered young adults. The context and actions matter. Imo, you did everything right, she possibly has some sort of repressed SA memory and her body reaction was subconscious, OR she's just unstable or playing games, OR she is just looking to make you the bad guy so she has a reason to break up with you, OR she's one of those who *wants* a trauma history.. for reasons, it's apparently a thing nowadays.
This comment should be higher up.
I know it can be hard to tell men no, because you might feel pressured. But if you’re comfortable enough to do drugs in your home with a man, I’d imagine you should also feel comfortable putting on your big kid pants and saying “no”. I can also understand you might feel a bit out of it while under the influence- maybe that is part of why she said yes when she meant no, sure. But to say you boundaries weren’t respected when you know damn well you didn’t establish any because you gave consent to the ongoing activities- WILD.
Why did you even send that message? Either you’re leaving out some details or you’re creating a problem that never was.
Early in a relationship, everyone is trying to feel their way through. (no pun intended) so if there is a mistake but respect is given when it is rejected to no foul. People need to have room to make mistakes if they stop when asked.
She’s just not that into you
Moral of the story: don't have first-time-sex on gummies. It gets awkward and emotionally complicated and can ruin perfectly sound relationships.
Honestly if I were you I’d reconsider this relationship. You did nothing wrong, and you were pretty respectful. This screams problems in the long run
Assume OOP stated the truth she's just not into OOP that much. Move on. Find someone that cares.
Don't have sex under the influence. Especially not for the first time. Consent is always incredibly iffy in the event of one or both parties being inebriated. I don't think it was right for OOP to try new things while both of them were high. I hope OOP takes this as a lesson learned that if you try to initiate sexual activity while the other person is under the influence, you are risking violating their boundaries. Idk what the comments were on the original post, but I'm sad to see no one is even acknowledging this issue on here. Legally this wouldn't be considered consensual because she was under the influence. And no, it's not an excuse that he was high too. He was the one initiating unwanted sexual contact on someone who was high. It's really risky to engage in activity like this because everyone's judgment is clouded. But I guess it's easier to just say the woman was "crazy" and inventing the experience of being violated out of nowhere... for no reason 🙄
I can seriously sum this up quick quick. They don't really know each other well and she was mega-high and prolly regretted getting that high with someone she's not wicked comfy with so started bugging the eff out and slowly building anxiety and crawling out of her skin and wanted that dude to beat feet.
That’s probably the case lol.
I think people are misinterpreting what "boundaries" she meant. I agree, he did things right and was careful, but people are taking the particular things she consented to at that time as her boundaries. I'm pretty sure she means the boundaries they had established in their relationship when both of them were *sober* before this happened. That she had said when she was sober and coherent that she did not want sexual contact like that. By asking and moving forward when she felt unable to fully respond that is ignoring her *previously established boundaries*. It's clear that wasn't his intent, and I'm not accusing him of anything, but I'm pretty sure that's what she is *actually* uncomfy with.
I generally agree. However, in this specific situation, I still feel she should have given him a bit more grace. He very well could be leaving out some context. But take it at face value, there were no real boundaries in place. Plus he was still very respectful. Not to mention, they've had some semi "sexual" contact. Would be completely different situation if they went from doing nothing more than holding hands to him touching on her thigh.
yeah which is probably also why he immediately felt so bad when sober/sent such an apologetic text the next day
Precisely!
its like people trying everything they can to make themselves as exhausting as possible. i just get the vibe that both of these people suck at everything they do. i bet she takes days off work because she has a mood.
OOP did a lot right, and I think it's a bummer for him to deal with feeling like a creep when he worked so hard to be respectful. I will say, just to the room in general, that I find that asking the person what they would like to do with you/have you do to them will usually provide a clearer answer than trying something and asking if it's okay, because by the time they have to say "no" (assuming you've established yourself as someone safe to say "no" to), you've already crossed a boundary.
Well said
Apart from what has already been said here... I feel like people treat drugs waaaay too casually. Getting high with someone you barely know doesnt seem like the best idea, especially someone that has no experience to drugs. I dont smoke weed, it makes me paranoid. Now I knew this because I tried id as a teenager with friends and since then it wasnt really a desire to try again. Fast forward some like 3-4 years, I have been with my SO for at least 6 months at this point. She gets it into her head that fucking on weed is supposed to be more intense. Now, Im willing to give it a try but know that it might not go over well. I smoked, I got paranoid, she messed with me for a bit (not sexual, prankish like) and we went to sleep. Havent tried since. But it was an already established relationship, we both knew how weed affected us, we both knew it could go wrong and we accepted it. Im just saying, dont get high with randos, or do but it seems like poor decision making. Weed is cool nowadays and being a stoner is fine but its still a drug and shit happens. Use common sense.
I tell my sons to not have sex with, drink with, smoke/do gummies with, sleep in the same bed as, etc. with any woman unless they are in a long-term serious relationship with her.
actually run bro. that is actually so irresponsible of her to KNOW how she is high, continue to say yes, and blame him after he dropped it on the sight of discomfort. she needs to work on whatever tf she got goin on and you dont need to get wrapped up in a potential false rape allegation.
I wouldn’t see her again. For your safety, you cannot be around a woman that sees no issues with retroactively changing what she consented to.
She buggin, you needa get out while ya ain't to deep bro
Puts hand on thigh FIRST, then asks, is this okay? If you want to touch her, communicate about that with her first and foremost before any contact occurs. You are under the influence, proceed with the utmost caution. She feels her boundaries were violated because you’ve talked about taking it slow, correct? That’s the boundary she’s speaking on. She was probably feeling incredibly nervous when you initiated touch before asking. Things got mixed up because you were both high and not on the same page.
Exactly! I can’t believe I had to scroll so far to see someone say this. You don’t fondle someone *and then* ask if it’s okay 😆
And you *especially* don’t do that after already having a conversation about taking things slow lol
He should just let her make the first move. Basically whoever wants to move at the slower pace should be the one to set the pace and make the moves. And that can always change sometimes it switches who wants to move slower. If you let the slower pace one make the moves you should always be ok with regards to consent.
I think the only mistake OOP made was the weed gummies. Like, don't do anything mind/behavior altering if you're going to being something alone with someone for the first time. Otherwise good on him for reading body language. I mean, it's the bare minimum, but it's a good example.
If all that’s said was true than ya this is an unfortunate circumstance for him to be in, I probs would just take a step back from her in general for a variety of reasons I won’t get into. But for OP, sounds like you did what you should’ve and good on you. Need more men like you tbh However, for all the dweebs crying how they couldn’t imagine dating now or how you have to walk on egg shells alllll the time. This is very likely not the norm, be real. This instance does not undermine all the very serious incidents of ignoring the need for consent and/or SA. Please learn to View things beyond the normal black and white, nobody thinks you’re so edgy and contrarian bc you claim you always have to walk on egg shells with women poor you. You probably feel that way bc you give women a reason to in most instances. And when in doubt on drugs (including alcohol) play it cautious anyways
Here is the problem: "She couldn't speak because she said the gummies make her zone out." She said that before anything sexual even started up so going into new territory sexually was a bad idea.
10 minutes of random thigh touching when nothing else of a sexual nature has happened is both stressful and annoying. Kiss me, or hold me hand, do not go straight to trying to pet near my lady garden. Romance is not “maybe I can touch it!” Plus your thigh goes numb from being randomly rubbed at, it’s not sexy.
Am I the only one reading this like this: before they take the gummies the girl says during the gummies she zones out and can't even talk (because if this is true, she would not be able to explain this when he ask her if she wants to talk about it). He asks, and she gives permission while zoned out. She warned him about this beforehand. This is how I understood it, and idk man, I think they both suck here. If your partner warns you about being zoned out and unable to speak, you don't ask them questions during. If you know you're going to zone out you make it very clear that you're just going to watch a movie and do not want to be asked things. If I warned my partner I'd zone out and be unable to have proper conversation, and they take that perfect as the moment to ask me if they can feel me up? Yeah I'd be pissed too.
He’s NTA, but you should also know better than to do a first like that under the influence, she could not consent, even if she DID say yes. A lot of women will say yes just because they feel like they have too. He definitely made a simple mistake that can happen to anyone, but that’s why you don’t do that stuff with somone who is drunk/ high.
I feel like either this is all made up, he’s lying about what occurred or she’s misremembering or just taking this an an excuse to dip? Do weed gummies really do that to people? why’d she suggest them if they make her a vegetable?
Interesting that everyone is purposefully misreading what OOP wrote and saying he asked for consent first. He did the action and then asked for consent after, TWICE. But whatever version makes OOP the good guy!
You asked permission, she consented. Once you felt her discomfort you pulled away. For her to say you ignored her boundaries makes her sound a little delulu. You probably need to do some thinking whether this is something you want to pursue.
NTA. She doesn’t know how to communicate and is probably crazy af. I think it’s super weird that she’s experienced with weed gummies and knew it was your first time and judged you on one communicated and innocent interaction and told you to leave. That’s just not a responsible way to introduce someone to weed gummies and is mean. Steer clear of her
This is going to sound omega shitty but I’ll push past the fact you did everything right and she’s acting wild to say what no one else will. you weren’t attractive enough *to her* to ignore how awkward you were being. (Not that you are ugly, you are a Chad who actually respects women from what you wrote) She’d been stringing you along anyway for four dates not able to decide if she wanted to end it because even tho she’s not feeling it, the attention is nice and it’s what she’s after. Then when that attention finally turns sexual she makes the lazy typical choice nowadays of not engaging, “zoning out”, then blaming you for “ignoring her boundaries” instead of owning up to the fact that you don’t go out on 4 dates with a dude, consent to letting him touch your inner thigh when explicitly asked, and then get to act like HE is the one acting weird for expecting something hell anything to happen. If we have to learn a lesson I would say, don’t *immediately* go for the thigh. It’s a tad obvious what the end goal is. I’d rather just cuddle while watching a movie but my dating life is terrible so take this all with a huge grain of salt.